asciilifeform: ohai mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: hola
mod6: evenin'
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-28#1718006 << pretty lulzy. "sophisticated" has become this actual legal term in the us, meaning approximately "here's what obligations we arbitrarily foist on the other party for our own self serving reasons"☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-28 14:53 asciilifeform: 'Given the “stark difference between the abnormal rate and the actual market prices of bitcoin and ethereum on April 19”, B2C2, which Quoine called a “sophisticated” investor with experience trading virtual currencies, should have suspected the “abnormal rate” was a mistake. '
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-28#1718014 << this conceivable is of the same nature of conception as "wilkes proved there's no elliptic curves without modular forms, therefore we can use ecc instead of rsa"☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-28 15:00 asciilifeform: ( and it is entirely conceivable that some variation on the theme of bbp's function will give you a fast search for 'where in pi might this fuzzy match be' and the like )
asciilifeform: not so : bbp-like construction makes for inexpensive ~rewind~ when walking the digits, whereas hashes at least try to make it painful
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-28#1718015 << minimum case. the average case is of relatively little interest here. what interests is hardest case, to design solutions for problems (what is currently 100% of all theoretic work done), and minimum case, to guarantee hardness, which is 0% of work done and 100% of republican interest.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-28 15:09 asciilifeform: the fundamental boojum preventing anything like a rationally designed blockcipher-hash-prng , is that we do not actually have a theory of average-case problem hardness.
mircea_popescu: average case has no value for this later branch ; has some limited value for the former branch, to see how "eccentric" the upper bound is.
asciilifeform: oh ffs why we gotta have same thread twice. minimal case is ALWAYS O(1) , it consists of... knowing the answer ahead of time
asciilifeform: i.e. having the key
mircea_popescu: not trivial.
asciilifeform: the concept of 'minimal case for someone who doesn't know the key' is not meaningfully distinct from 'average case'
mircea_popescu: we're not discussing that nonsense. we're discussing the actual blind case.
mircea_popescu: it is.
asciilifeform: demonstrate the distinction ?
mircea_popescu: suppose there's a function that does hashing over a domain consisting of 2^100 possible distinct values.
asciilifeform supposes
mircea_popescu: consider the work required to reverse it has been calculated for each value, and is in the domain [a, b].
asciilifeform: ok..
mircea_popescu: the point of interest for the "max case" is b. the point of interest to us is a. the "average case" is either a+b/2 or else ni * weight i / sum i.
mircea_popescu: trivially the average, weighted or not, will be inside the domain and not the lower bound of the domain.
asciilifeform: i get this, this isn't the problem. problem is the dismissal of the knowing-the-answer degenerate case
mircea_popescu: what interests me, when you say "alfhash is 5 trillion hours strong" is that ANY VALUE i pass into alfhash will be reversed in NO LESS than 5 trillion hours.
mircea_popescu: i don't care that "on average it's 5 trillion but for the value you chose it's two weeks"
asciilifeform: i get this. and would like one of these. but strongly suspect that it is a provably square circle.
mircea_popescu: until proven i ask for it.
asciilifeform: i've been asking for it since we 1st had the thread, lol
mircea_popescu: lol. now, let's model the other thing.
mircea_popescu: the correct measurement of hash strength includes two parties, defined as : party A, which knows the plaintext and computes the hash ; and party B, which does not know the plaintext and computes it on the basis of nothing but the hash.
mircea_popescu: a modelling in which b knows the plaintext breaks this definition, and it is therefore not interesting.
asciilifeform: incidentally i just realized that von neumann had this thread. and modelled the item in shannon's terms : he asked that the ciphertext contain 0 bits of info re the plaintext. and proved that this is true if and only if you're using... otp
mircea_popescu: in the common understanding of "hash is hard", what is said is "B can not make any grounded promise that his effort will require less than X work for an arbitrary item chosen by A"
asciilifeform: but as i understand we asked for a squarer even circle : that 'CAN make grounded promise that effort will require AT LEAST x'
mircea_popescu: whereas in the correct, crypto-relevant understanding of "hash is hard", what is said is "B can make grounded promise that his effort will require at least X work"
mircea_popescu: "for as long as the plaintext went through alfhash, it is known as a mathematical fact, irrespecvtive of any considerations, that so many steps must be undertaken to undo it"
mircea_popescu: (this being something i suspect mpfhf fambly MAY be amenable to proving, but i've yet to get anywhere)
asciilifeform: the thing is, 'knows answer ahead of time' is not an all-or-nothing. in any non-otp ( i.e. 1:1 mapping of plaintxt to ciphertxt ) there is nonzero bittage of info in ciphertext, of plaintext
mircea_popescu: this is not evidently true.
asciilifeform: von neumann proved it
mircea_popescu: for instance, the dillutionists propose a similar view of solutions.
mircea_popescu: "in any amount of water there's some nonzero information as to the original solutes"
asciilifeform: if atom did not exist, this would be true
mircea_popescu: right ?
mircea_popescu: how do you know, though.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, there's a difference between "it in principle exists" and anything useful.
asciilifeform: that's the subject of inquiry, neh
mircea_popescu: yes.
asciilifeform: until you have a proof, a hash, cipher, etc. is 'strong until it ain't'
mircea_popescu: i suppose to get fancy we're inquiring whether information is quantified. fine.
asciilifeform: fortunately shannon did this already
asciilifeform: as for the subj of thread, it would also seem to asciilifeform that it in fact reduces to the P =?= NP megapuzzler.
asciilifeform: or rather, requires a proof that P!=NP...
mircea_popescu: in any case, the former statement is an exercise in psychotic nonsense. how the fuck can you demand someone NOT be able to whatever.
mircea_popescu: the evidently philosophically correct formulation is the second, being positive not negative.
asciilifeform: ( iirc last time we had the thread, mircea_popescu dug up a few even-moar-painful complexity classes, to place the dragon into. and asciilifeform had to point out that THEIR disjointness from P is equally unproven )
mircea_popescu: actually i recall at some point bring well known super -NP, proven as such, classes.
mircea_popescu: including the algebraic indices problem etc.
asciilifeform: note that, e.g., game of go, is exptime-complete but turns out that good algo exists. complexity class as we have it is a broken concept, which was asciilifeform's argument to start
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-28#1718045 << it's fiction, actually.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-28 18:29 BingoBoingo: "That's exactly the problem. Yesterday I ate a most delicious desert out of my slavegirl's own ass, directly. This dream of many previous sultans and whatnots that nevertheless couldn't ever be fulfilled effortlessly came through, for me. I didn't even much care for it either way," << TMSR problems
mircea_popescu: a...ficcionados (lol) can readily resolve the problem though : douche the girl, then anally feed her a banana for buffer, then load her up in whatever flavour you favour and then proceed to dinner.
mircea_popescu: careful when it starts getting banana-y.
asciilifeform: bbbut howmanydilutions!111
mircea_popescu: you mean ablutions.
asciilifeform: bananutions
mircea_popescu: depends. trained ass needs 2. noob ass, 3+.
mircea_popescu: one of the most fascinating things about anal perversity is that the colon seems particularily eager to enter dual use regime.
mircea_popescu: all the people going "oh, it's against nature" have NO FUCKING IDEA whatsoever as to nature.
asciilifeform: i suppose holding a knife between yer teeth, or a flute, etc is also 'against nature' lol
mircea_popescu: conceivably.
mircea_popescu: pattern matches, at the least.
mircea_popescu: but speech is certainly a perversion, so this argument is hard to bring.
asciilifeform: and if you lick a 9v cell your tongue dereferences a null ptr and falls off, neh
asciilifeform: picture if these imbeciles designed a body for some creature.
asciilifeform: 'oh but Who Could Have Foreseen!'
mircea_popescu: you familiar with the platonic alt-theories ?
mircea_popescu: body parts seeping from the ground in a swamp and such ?
asciilifeform: aha, it never really made sense
mircea_popescu: there's a pretty decent pile of lulz.
asciilifeform: re hashes, an old article of possible interest , https://arxiv.org/abs/cs/0012023
asciilifeform: ^ offers a solution to the megapuzzler, but takes 'complexity classes ARE disjoint' as a lemma.
asciilifeform: ( as conjecture, rather )
asciilifeform: afaik that piece remains 'the last word' on the subj, from the maths folx.
asciilifeform: ( the flimflam artists who call themselves 'cryptographers' studiously avoid the subject, and will recoil in horror -- guaranteed, try it yerself -- when confronted. )
mircea_popescu: so what good is it ?
asciilifeform: i highly recommend reading.
mircea_popescu: no i mean the result. "if the classes are separate". well...
mircea_popescu is pretty sure read this sometime past years.
asciilifeform: sane discussion of the question, followed by an answer you can go with ( because if it turns out that oneway functions do NOT exist, all crypto other than otp is worthless )
asciilifeform: quite possibly mircea_popescu read it at some point. but did not yet have the correct itch, to appreciate.
mircea_popescu: i am unpersuaded.
mircea_popescu: the whole zfc is still in doubt, for instance.
mircea_popescu: heck, i recently linked to some lulz discussing that. recall cads and his fabled gf ?
asciilifeform: the thing's been in my queue for a while, marked with 'determine what all of the assumptions were'
mircea_popescu: it requires zemelo-frankel conjecture, for one thing.
mircea_popescu: and it requires more than that, if you step out of haskell and try to c, nonsense such as "universal computability", which falls apart the moment you are invited to do relatively "simple" things such as write cubes as sums of coprimes raised to large powers.
asciilifeform: dunno that it is a conjecture when the working set consists strictly of items you can have on a physical comp
mircea_popescu: none of this is dispositive ; what i'm saying here is that im pretty sure i read this, and it didn't come through as much more than tyhe usual math grad wank to me.
asciilifeform: hey if yer gonna take 'presently impossibly difficult' to mean same thing as 'uncomputable', then sha256 is goodenuff
asciilifeform: but thread is re provables.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you understand this is actually impossible, yes ?
mircea_popescu: exactly like trisection, amusingly for ~same reasons.
asciilifeform: if it's a problem in the integers, and it has an answer, it is 'possible'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no cube can be written as a sum of two co-primes raised to the power of three or above.
mircea_popescu: the 3 case is proven by euler. the > 3 case flows from you know, wiles' work.
mircea_popescu: it's the converse of the modular math / elliptic curves geometry equivalence.
asciilifeform: oh hah i mentally mutilated mircea_popescu's item into discretelogproblem, because of thread subj
mircea_popescu: right, but that's the very important point there, you don't get it without mutialrtion.
asciilifeform: impossibles dun make for useful crypto, tho
mircea_popescu: right, but what i'm saying is that the original article is much in this vein.
asciilifeform: you want possibles-but-demonstrably-painfuls
asciilifeform: i dun have a verdict on $article yet. will say that it is simply, afaik, the beginning and the end publicly available on the subj.
asciilifeform: other than our thread here.
mircea_popescu: anyway. my point is that the idea that "a practical implementation of the axion of choice always exists" is way WAY further out there than simply thje axiom of choice. WAY. because even "trivial" things (find the coprime n powers that sum to cube) are in point of FACT, know, proven, concrete poured and long dry, strictly incomputable.
mircea_popescu: so what help is it, "any f has its g" if g is in point of fact incomputable, at ALL.
mircea_popescu: f "has it" in a sense of having very mathematical altogether.
asciilifeform: author ~does~ have some strange cockroaches in his head: cites shamir's 'proof that factoring can be O(log N)' but omits to mention that it requires a machine that works in arbitrarily-sized integers in constant time...
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: so to sum this up in our lingua franca : one kind of fool says "this confuses me and therefore must be hard". the OTHER kind of fool says "this seems immediately beautiful and to my eyes elegant and therefore must be easy".
mircea_popescu: seems to me the main reason $item stood out to your examination is that in a sea of former fools you finally found a latter kind.
asciilifeform: again i dun have a verdict re the verdict of $subj, all i got in my notes is 'd00d appears to have stated the problem correctly'
asciilifeform will come back to this item at some point , when it works its way out of his very long digestive tract
mircea_popescu: i'd propose as heuristics from this that the moment anyone proposes either a) a computable corolary of ZFC, no matter its kind or b) a computable corolary of AOC, no matter its kind, we're lost for reason.
mircea_popescu: because neither of these, even if wrung into acceptability in the most theoretical sense, come with any sort of even vague hope of a possibility of a guarantee of computability.
mircea_popescu: ie, a haskell so pure it doesn't even run on machines, it's paper only.
asciilifeform: apparently you dun get usg.tenure for working on proofs concerning items that map directly to iron
asciilifeform: asciilifeform for instance notices that his phone is not ringing with offers of tenure.
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: "offers of tenure". wtf are you on about.
asciilifeform: the one non-negotiable demand of usg.academia, is uselessness.
mircea_popescu: in any case tenure is not like bushels of pistachios, to be offered in trade. it's like "true love", very much of the sociopathic ilk seen in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-26#1717417☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-26 05:09 mircea_popescu: and in other ancient lulz: https://elaineou.com/2009/04/03/advice-for-woman-seeking-500k-earning-man/
mircea_popescu: they'll "offer you" to take them and set their fat ass down in a $5mn apartment in a condo overlooking the pierre.
mircea_popescu: hurr durr.
mircea_popescu: (well known hotel on 61st st (ie, by central park) in ny)
asciilifeform: ( point was, academitards swarm around 'demonstrations of clever' glass beads rather than items that demonstrably work, as discussed in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-02#1621290 and elsewhere )☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-02 20:53 asciilifeform: the 'let's use anything, ANYTHING but rsa' thing really grates on me.
mod6: !!key deedbot
mircea_popescu: !!up deedbot
deedbot: deedbot voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: !!key deedbot
mircea_popescu: !!key mod6
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-29#1718114 << Will have to remember the banana trick☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-29 00:24 mircea_popescu: a...ficcionados (lol) can readily resolve the problem though : douche the girl, then anally feed her a banana for buffer, then load her up in whatever flavour you favour and then proceed to dinner.
mircea_popescu: nature provides precious few materials of comparable quality for this particular purpose. cuz it has to be soft and occlusive and so on, contrary engineering requirements.
mircea_popescu: and in other lulz : miicard.com. "The only way to prove you are who you say you are purely online"
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2012/the-conference-freakshow/#selection-103.17-103.95 << 2012 pioneers of industree.
BingoBoingo finds it a nice change of pace to have a Trilema fiction story with so much emphasis on the protagonists
mircea_popescu: and in other "asian people should just be holocausted" news : piece of shit router, gets set up to work on static ip, spews out the helpful error message of "the value can't be equal". verbatim. and the source of it is a pile of inclusion gnarl so you can't even trivially debug the nonsense THAT way.
asciilifeform hasn't deployed anything but hand-sewn router for maybe 4y+
asciilifeform in the company of pet, who is practicing ro-fu
asciilifeform: !!up adlai
deedbot: adlai voiced for 30 minutes.
adlai: good morning asciilifeform
asciilifeform: hiya adlai
asciilifeform: adlai: how lives the land of the sand cat ?
adlai: sand cat?
asciilifeform: little fella. in the desert.
asciilifeform: i saw one in chicago zoo.
adlai: here we mostly have street cats, that are the apex predator of the urban food chain
asciilifeform: soo what brings ya back, adlai ?
adlai: "Reading is to the mind what exercise is to the body"
adlai: curious to see how you've tackled http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716144☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-20 19:22 asciilifeform: and incidentally i dun have a nonleaking miller-rabin yet, need nonleaking gcd ( have on paper, but not in ffa yet )
asciilifeform: adlai: the painfully obvious way
asciilifeform: fixed shot count, on mux
asciilifeform: nao just needs proof of correctness...
asciilifeform bbl : meat.
adlai reads about Lame's theorem: http://archive.is/yftFf
mod6: !!up elaineo
deedbot: elaineo voiced for 30 minutes.
mod6: !!up oroborous
deedbot: oroborous voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: and in other superficialities, http://68.media.tumblr.com/63c58c530ee32ef164e9c9016ecb5a13/tumblr_njiap9j3TR1qemzxmo1_400.gif
davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-27#1717916 <<< none, i did hit up a couple DCs around here, nothing interesting came out of it☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-27 22:46 BingoBoingo: davout: I'm wondering if an progress was made finding Francophone datacenters outside France, preferaby in the heart of the dark continent
BingoBoingo: davout: K, will cross continent off list
cruciform: just bcrash, derping as usual: http://fork.lol/pow/retarget
phf: asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/x0p5S/?raw=true$
mod6: mornin'
asciilifeform: !~later tell phf http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/b9fvZ/?raw=true
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: ohai mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: sup
asciilifeform: barrett proof
mircea_popescu: o hey.
asciilifeform: well, not quite, but getting there.
mircea_popescu: um.
asciilifeform: when have complete proof, will say it in complete sentence!111!
mircea_popescu: haha ok.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-29#1718201 << wait, as opposed to whim ?!☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-29 03:10 BingoBoingo finds it a nice change of pace to have a Trilema fiction story with so much emphasis on the protagonists
mircea_popescu: i mean whom. although...
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-29#1718203 << i believe. it is not currently directly evident anything else CAN be used, even.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-29 03:28 asciilifeform hasn't deployed anything but hand-sewn router for maybe 4y+
asciilifeform: i certainly can't bring myself to use the konsoomer crapola, when making a replacement that lasts ~forever and requires 0 nursing, is hardly even day's work
asciilifeform checks router in room and finds ~year of uptime, and would be longer if i hadn't cleaned it last winter
mircea_popescu: and in today's installment of loose holes and limp knees, http://68.media.tumblr.com/b0c7cea42f4b64cc3965fe43817b45da/tumblr_nskr27Zx6h1u9uov7o1_400.gif
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform whatr do you use, actual comps ? or rasperry lulz ?
asciilifeform: typically neither:
asciilifeform: this one, for example, is a defanged (refirmwared) 'edgerouter'
asciilifeform: 64bit mips thing, there was a thread
asciilifeform: another pretty good one is that very same pcengines box, from ~that~ thread
mircea_popescu: ah. i guess, if you keep lists of which ones aren't too stupid byu nature
asciilifeform: just about anything with a few GB nic ports, fanless cpu, and some place to stick netbsd etc, worx
asciilifeform: also helps if it has a serial port ( mine do )
mircea_popescu: with the downside that you're now stuck maintaining netbsd.
asciilifeform: maintaining?!
mircea_popescu: well ?
asciilifeform: you stick it on and weld it shut
mircea_popescu: need i quote at you ?
trinque doesn't have GB internet connection, so old G4 + openbsd works great
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-26#1717601☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-26 15:45 asciilifeform: in other lulzies, https://archive.is/roEgM >> privesc 0day : '...all versions of CentOS 7 before 1708 (released on September 13, 2017), all versions of Red Hat Enterprise Linux 7 before 7.4 (released on August 1, 2017), and all versions of CentOS 6 and Red Hat Enterprise Linux 6 are exploitable' << Aaaaaaand as usual linus sat on the goods since april, because 'responsible'
mircea_popescu: trinque except you gotta maintain openbsd now.
asciilifeform: why would a router care re privesc
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why would the next one be re privesc.
trinque: I dunno what maintain means here
mircea_popescu: that at any future point you must be able to produce a package you're willing to label "openbsd"
mircea_popescu: as opposed to, say randomly, "a piece of junk"
trinque: sure, that much is true.
mircea_popescu: well that much is also the entirety of the problem.
asciilifeform: router is a pretty simple item, incidentally, and a good first candidate for proper total deunixation
trinque: I'm still of the mind that I'd rather eat openbsd than linux
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that is true.
mircea_popescu: trinque yeah, but i was just making the point for his benefit that his elaborately crafted turd is not so much better than the 40 bux consumer turd.
mircea_popescu: "oh, i never eat at mcdonalds, i always cook all my meals at home out of cheese squares and hormel pork sausage"
asciilifeform: eats packet (on either end), looks at a few fields, either accepts (then rewrites a few fields and shits out of other arse) or rejects (drops on floor)
asciilifeform: so on ad infinitum
trinque: hm yeah, no point of honor in it
asciilifeform: there's no particular reason why a router oughta contain a few 100MB of unixlike, rather than, say, a few kB of fpga config.
mircea_popescu: very true.
asciilifeform wonders whether anybody would actually buy a generic fpgatronic packet eater-shitter
trinque raises hand
mod6: ya
mircea_popescu: if it can be delivered a la FG, and it doesn't cost MUCH more than the current shits, defo.
asciilifeform: would prolly cost roughly what you'd expect it to if you napkin calc.
asciilifeform: ( hundy or so, in small qty , by my reckoning )
mircea_popescu: not bad. current ones are what, fiddybux.
asciilifeform: 'edge' was a hundy, but it had nice steel chassis, etc. ( and also i suspect sold at a loss, stock firmware was brazenly nsaware )
mircea_popescu: ah, if nice chassis and stuff like that, total steal.
mircea_popescu: actually... pogos ?
asciilifeform: pogo's only got 1 nic
mircea_popescu: ah right.
trinque: that pcengines guy's a great one, 3 nics.
asciilifeform: trinque: aha, worx great
trinque: sad thing that they lost the debug port
asciilifeform: that's typically what they're used for
mircea_popescu: does 3 nics mean you could plug it into two internets and have it splice ?
asciilifeform: trinque: theoretically they still have the port, it just dun work without amd magic key
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it means exactly what your own handmade box with 3 nics means -- can splice, balance, whichever
mircea_popescu: well, i would defo buy a bunch of these if properly set up so they can be ip x in wan1 and ip y in wan2 and then establish sessions through the least decongested one at all times.
mircea_popescu: so different pages in kitten's self-same browser think they're different ips.
mircea_popescu: least congested*
mircea_popescu: in fact, i'd even declare it an absolutely required bit of republican computing, as such. because it does make a first step towards the specifically stated uci goal, "location ambiguity"
mircea_popescu: shit's in gossipd design papers too, and really everywhere.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform can they hang like 8 lan ports off the 2nd nic ? and can they not have fucking wireless, too ? DUN DUN DUN, perfect final hop router.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'edge' has 1 usb hole , and it is inside, holds the flash stick it runs of. so not really a place to put wireless. 'pcengines' has 2 usb holes and 3 internal pci-e, plus antenna hole predrilled, so theoretically yes
asciilifeform typically has separate boxes for 80211, in places where he has the latter
mircea_popescu: fuck the fucking wireless.
asciilifeform: possibly i misread q
asciilifeform: as 'can it have wireless'
asciilifeform: but no, neither comes with wireless nic, wtf
asciilifeform: who the fuck would put wireless nic in a final hop router, lol
mircea_popescu: i'd buy shit without wireless in preference of shit with, even if same exact shit.
mircea_popescu: the only fucking reason wireless exists is the dumbass "smartphones". fucking civilisation enders.
asciilifeform: then good noose -- both of the example boxes, contain strictly classic nics
mod6: sweet
mircea_popescu: hm
mircea_popescu: weird 7second+ lag shit.
mircea_popescu: and speaking of freenode bs : "* - A massive thank you to our sponsors and exibitors: Private Internet Access, Canonical, Bytemark, yubico, Open Rights Group, Free Software Foundation, OpenSUSE, Minetest, KDE, bitcoin.com."
mircea_popescu: for the thing they kept spamming.
mircea_popescu: apparently my boxes aren't needed, but hell yea roger ver's "money" that doesn't exist is more than welcome. and plox moar yubikey and canonical and if it's not fucking plain yet...
trinque: bbl
asciilifeform: i'm a little surprised that 'linux foundation' and prb foundation ain't on that list
asciilifeform: then it could be truly compleeet
mod6: heheh
asciilifeform: !!up Ingolfr_Arnarson
deedbot: Ingolfr_Arnarson voiced for 30 minutes.
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-29#1718245 << As opposed to the Disgrace rewrite which didn't have much from the Petrus perspective☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-29 16:26 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-29#1718201 << wait, as opposed to whim ?!
BingoBoingo: In the latest from the 'Reality Winner' saga: "Accused NSA leaker was angry over Fox News always being on in the office"
BingoBoingo: And the printed documents were smuggled out in her pantyhose
asciilifeform: relatedly, is there a 'fawkes news' in britain ? and if not, why not.
asciilifeform: !!up fromphuctor
deedbot: fromphuctor voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: fromphuctor: hello ?
fromphuctor: good evening sirs
asciilifeform: who might you be, fromphuctor ?
fromphuctor: lurker mostly
trinque: wjat
trinque: *what's the other bit, aside the mostly?
asciilifeform: fromphuctor: well you picked up the microphone... so speak
fromphuctor: ah, no nothing related to your affairs yet, so lurker totally... wanted to check pgp on some os and came across phuctor
fromphuctor: klicked on a link, now here
fromphuctor: go on with your things, i ask if i want to know sth
asciilifeform: fromphuctor: if you're curious re phuctor, i recommend to read the faq page
fromphuctor: duh
fromphuctor: ah now i remember my question
fromphuctor: i wanted to read about the relationship between math and programming languages
asciilifeform: more specifically ?
fromphuctor: basically the question is what is the relationship between math and programming languages
fromphuctor: do you know authors that describe that in any way ?
asciilifeform: a. turing & a. church
asciilifeform: and ~all of the mathematical work was done long before there existed such a thing as a programmable comp
fromphuctor: that is why i find it is worth investigating
asciilifeform: if you want a kindergarten b00k in english, try feynman's 'lectures on computation'
fromphuctor: i would have thought maybe russian authors would be more suited
asciilifeform: the way you phrased the question suggests that your road to grasping the answer, is long
fromphuctor: yes
asciilifeform: if you really must have in ru, here's where asciilifeform started, as a 4yo, https://royallib.com/read/zaretskiy_andrey/a_ya_bil_v_kompyuternom_gorode.html#0
fromphuctor: ohnicethx sir, one link at a time, chugging along on the road
fromphuctor: about the Phuctor/PGP related things i ask another time
fromphuctor: checking my phrasing before
fromphuctor: thank you asciilifeform
asciilifeform: sure.
asciilifeform: in other lulz, via BingoBoingo , '"Reality, uh, you know we obviously know a lot more than... than what we're telling you at this point. And I think you know a lot more than what you're telling us at this point. I don't want you to go down the wrong road. I think you need to... to stop and think about what you're saying and what you're doing. Uhm, you know, I... I think it's a... an opportunity to maybe tell the truth. Because, uh, t
asciilifeform: elling a... telling a lie to an FBI agent is not going to be the right thing."'
asciilifeform: didjaknow.
asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/NmbxE/?raw=true << somewhat miserable ocr of https://arstechnica.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/09/winnertranscript-1.pdf . lulzy.
asciilifeform: ^ prolly most detailed record of usg gasenwagen session to date
asciilifeform: summary : chix was not 'silent like partizan', no.
asciilifeform: in other idiocies, https://archive.is/zI6Xm >> '... mysterious attacks that left diplomats with hearing damage and brain injuries, the State Department announced...' << somebody lock'em up in schizo ward, like they do to their victims back home, per http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-26#1548698☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-09-26 17:33 asciilifeform: incidentally i find it quite hilarious that three years after the snowden catalogue leak, the constellation of symptoms of rf bug illuminator victims is still Officially 'schizo'
trinque: this transcript is such a fucking snore, ye gods
trinque: smells a lot like "hey lets get srsbsns PROOF of russian hax into the news"
trinque: http://archive.is/ooCb6 << and not read her rights!
trinque: chick's gonna get out in a few years and get paid under the table, disappear
trinque: the feds meanwhile read like stuttery, inarticulate derps.
ben_vulpes: pink ar-15, that's pretty damn funny.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it's so as not to stand out from the scenery when fighting on planets with pink vegetation and soil, clearly
asciilifeform: or perhaps for urban combat inside those old-school lunatic asylums where the walls were pinked...
mats: https://www.coindesk.com/edward-snowden-zcash-is-most-interesting-bitcoin-alternative handpuppet adds zcash to list of suspect items that include tor browser bundle, tail, signal
mats: tails*
asciilifeform: !#s zcash
a111: 27 results for "zcash", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=zcash
asciilifeform had nfi it were still around
asciilifeform: comically idiotic thing, nearly made ethertardium look sane in comparison
asciilifeform: it's the one where they pretended to destroy the magical infinite-inflatolade-creation key
mats: countless mentions to that and monero in every hn thread about bitcoin - more privacy! anon by default! diversify your holdings! *waves hands*
asciilifeform: 'Writing in response to a tweet from technologist Mason Borda which read: "Zcash is the only altcoin (that i know of) designed and built by professional and academic cryptographers. Hard to ignore," Snowden replied, "Agree."'
asciilifeform: didjaknow.
asciilifeform: mats: word 'suspect' implies uncertainty. cyanide is not a 'suspect' poison, tor, signal, etc are not 'suspect' usgologies.
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 4165.06, vol: 12049.97783533 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 4180.0, vol: 38487.5737384 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 4085.44, vol: 515.89440000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 4178.0, vol: 4218.02692379 | Volume-weighted last average: 4175.70762846
BingoBoingo: In seekoority ex-part solutions https://i.redditmedia.com/gBXKccLboeUOlm_zCZmx8ruCfFGrPGQFP_TrYzI6Hwg.jpg?w=768&s=b332705632a052c59962b430f7b6ac1e
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-29#1718334 << well the idea there was that petrus being petrus is illiterate. not in the sense of not pretending to be able to write, but in the sense of actually not having anything to say.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-29 18:04 BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-29#1718245 << As opposed to the Disgrace rewrite which didn't have much from the Petrus perspective
mircea_popescu: the metrosexuals describe themselves, for lack of anyone else interested. apart from that, the victims describe the rapists and thassat.
BingoBoingo: Still, his illiteracy doesn't make Petrus any less the protagonist in the story of things that happened to David
mircea_popescu: proto-gonadist at any rater.
mircea_popescu: but yes.
BingoBoingo: It's still more than David is
asciilifeform: the spartan speaks with his... meatsword
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-29#1718370 << incidentally, maybe time to take the webirc link off phuctor ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-29 19:48 asciilifeform: sure.
asciilifeform: !#s from:fromphuctor
a111: 165 results for "from:fromphuctor", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Afromphuctor
asciilifeform: ^ dun weigh much, and even not all rubbish
mircea_popescu: if you enjoy it...
mircea_popescu: the original reasoning was that actual high value individuals might need the fast track, for lack of you know, dissemination in their backwater barios.
mircea_popescu: it's been years, the argument no longer stands.
asciilifeform: 165 ln. to date
mircea_popescu: i'm not saying it's a big deal, no.
asciilifeform: when idjits start appearing every month even, then, then .
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-29#1718383 << because they... are. and the chick's not silent because she expects to actually comandeer the fucking agents.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-29 20:24 trinque: the feds meanwhile read like stuttery, inarticulate derps.
mircea_popescu: somehow, and i have yuet to pierce this mystery, people on the side of pantsuit always assume they own the world, natively. whereas people on the side of the republic, at least verbally, always assume the opposite, and start derping about how i've to prove shit and so on.
mircea_popescu: you won't hear Ireality Winner derp about how "what proof can Pantsuited Hilarity bring ?"
mircea_popescu: her line isn't "maybe it's good that fox news is on because what proof does sanders have that it isn't ?"
mircea_popescu: a restatement of the old adage, "the problem with socialism is that idiots are always cocksure ; everyone else, full of doubts"
asciilifeform: 'proof' , also note, ain't magic: there were and still somewhere are folx doubting , e.g., output of phuctor, even though all that is needed to verify is a copy of bc, python, whichever calculator, and a few min.
mircea_popescu: absolutely.
mircea_popescu: laziness is immediate. reason works through the mediacy of the most fragile, most expensive, least dependable mechanism known in nature.
asciilifeform: you can lead a swine to perls but you can't make him... or how did it go.
mircea_popescu: you can't make her a string of anal beads out of them ?
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> a restatement of the old adage, "the problem with socialism is that idiots are always cocksure ; everyone else, full of doubts" << But how else would Taq1A be so successful if women didn't like making baby with drunks?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i have nfi.
mircea_popescu: it's a legitimate open question in ev biology.
asciilifeform: fermentation in unrefrigerated world aint optional
asciilifeform: so imho no puzzler there
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform note that it is almost a tracer for "eastern european plains" genotypes. whereas azn ppls had alcohol for thousand+ years longer.
mircea_popescu: (see also eg https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3657369/ )
asciilifeform: this ^ is first time i see 'chinese' and 'depressive disorder' in same sentence
mircea_popescu: heh
mircea_popescu: i will point it out that prior to say 1500, people didn't see "sioux" and "drunkedness" in same sentence either.
asciilifeform: what's next, dystrophic americans..?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Taq1A is on of the few genetic markers with STRONG behavioral predictive relation
mircea_popescu: relatively strong.