log☇︎
1714 entries in 0.77s
phf: i.e. symbolics ada
phf: but first we port symbolics ada to scheme-81, so we can compile trb with symbolics ada
asciilifeform: 90% of why i like ada is that it 'compiles like c' (i.e. without massive runtime or bytecode claptrap in place of ida-able binary) WHILE having bounds-checked array accesses etc.
asciilifeform: the reason i asked was that i noticed that ada links just fine with cpp crud, both having been shat out of ordinary gcc
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu i had a notion: if we're no longer holding the 'father's pistols' line, is there any good reason not to replace openssl in trb with, e.g., ada bignum ?
asciilifeform: 'It is improper. Enumerations must always be made of items of the same kind. It's not enough that the items answer to the same purpose. They must actually be of the same kind.' << aaaaand this is how we learned that mircea_popescu , under the cover of darkness, programs! in ada !1111
asciilifeform: phun phakt: ada has no shortcircuit evaluation of boolean exprs unless explicitly specified.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nah this particular thing is likely the harmless and ordinary 'you can redefine the + sign to polymorph on type' as in cpp, commonlisp, ada, etc
asciilifeform: (spoiler: ada aggressively promotes sanity, in particular here the item described by mircea_popescu roughly a year ago, which is that a program must occupy EXACTLY its maximal memory footprint at all times)
mod6: <+asciilifeform> as in, re-use the blocks sanely. << ok so we'd have to therefore keep a 'free list' - a list of objects/items that have been deleted and are "recycled" and may be used again or I suppose we could then call 'Ada.Unchecked_Deallocation' on an item in the free list to shink the list thereby reclaiming the memory.
mircea_popescu: you're not about to tell me the block limit is actually part of ada,
mircea_popescu: explain this to me. how do i write ada-bitcoin with variable-sized blocks ?
asciilifeform: but this defeats a good chunk of the purpose of using ada to begin with.
asciilifeform: in essence ada demands that you make intelligent use of static blocks of ram
asciilifeform: ada memory alloc is an interesting item that deserves own conversation
asciilifeform: fwiw i have pretty close to a working bignumatron in ada.
mircea_popescu: mod6> bunch of us have been learning scheme and Ada << hey, time spent retooling the shop is still work
mod6: mp has some neato non-ada ideas surrounding sponges
mod6: bunch of us have been learning scheme and Ada
assbot: Logged on 27-03-2016 22:27:14; asciilifeform: shinohai, mod6, et al: https://cowlark.com/2014-04-27-ada << possibly helpful
assbot: A Random Walk Through Ada ... ( http://bit.ly/1UVyGjl )
asciilifeform: shinohai, mod6, et al: https://cowlark.com/2014-04-27-ada << possibly helpful ☟︎
asciilifeform: on a happy note, appreciate how much ~aggressive sanity~ is baked into ada. it is routine, for example, to program ~without a heap~ !
shinohai: "JGNAT is a version compiled from the Ada programming language to Java bytecode." <<< srsly?
assbot: Logged on 27-03-2016 10:24:02; asciilifeform: incidentally, gnat is actually written in ada. and is quite readable... (in as much as such a thing can be called readable)
shinohai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-03-2016#1440538 <<< spoke briefly to mod6 about gnat, still trying to wrap head around ada ☝︎
asciilifeform: the ~total unavailability of derplibraries (~no open-sores 'ecosystem') in ada land also has a cleansing effect.
asciilifeform: incidentally, gnat is actually written in ada. and is quite readable... (in as much as such a thing can be called readable) ☟︎
asciilifeform: (the other choice, if trying to escape from ada, is to ditch the c-machine silicon, but i just checked my sofa cushion and still did not find a spare $10m in it with which to do this.)
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: ada sucks in 1,001 ways, but unlike every other known non-c, introduction of mystery meat layer between the source semantics and resulting binary is not one f them. which unfortunately makes it the ~only~ sane choice for critical realtime system.
assbot: Logged on 27-03-2016 08:32:09; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: can you speak to why ada's usgenesis shouldn't set off klaxons?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: can you speak to why ada's usgenesis shouldn't set off klaxons? ☟︎
mod6: well, i guess i can appreciate that. i was simply going to write a V in Ada as a way to learn Ada.
mod6: boy oh boy. looks like all you can hope for with Ada and issuing system commands is to redirect the output to a file, and the read the file.
asciilifeform: ada isn't, contrary to appearances, simply a 'bloated c' though.
asciilifeform: it was the rationale b000k that sold me on putting on the apocalyptic gas mask and doing ada at all.
mod6: Ada 95 Reference Manual. Language and Standard Libraries: International Standard << this one
asciilifeform: i can almost guarantee you won't like ada then.
asciilifeform: mod6: i got into ada ~1y ago. and it was ~very~ reluctantly.
mod6: kill or maim, Ada is the correct choice.
assbot: Ada Programs ... ( http://bit.ly/1NTHkaB )
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mod6 http://cs.fit.edu/~ryan/ada/programs << you will find these useful, i did
mod6: but I think I might take a stab at writting it in ada so I can learn that with a proper example instead.
asciilifeform: ^ a 'gribble'-like animal in ada.
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: surprising yes, but ADA, resonable accomodation, etc
mod6: got my treeware SICP and ADA ref manual today.
mircea_popescu: so then no, mp isn't learning any ada. if mp wanted to learn ada, he would have.
ascii_field: eventually either the lizards will move, or mircea_popescu will grow tired of me, or my health simply gives out, and mircea_popescu will have to learn ada and relearn numbertheory himself...
mod6: im gonna tackle ada this week when my book gets here.
jurov: i wonder what alf will do when he receives inevitable cease and desist letter wrt gossipd/ada/anythingelse patents
mod6: asciilifeform: did you say you were using gnat to link ada object flies?
mircea_popescu: (actually, amusingly enough, swift docs date from just about the era ada was fashionable. there was such a time - just like that time in the 90s when everyone was eager to implement linux-y things and you didn't really have to sell it at all, whole cities just switched for no reason) ☟︎
assbot: 0 results for 'ada manul' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ada+manul
mircea_popescu: !s ada manul
assbot: 6 results for 'ada manual' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ada+manual
mircea_popescu: !search ada manual
danielpbarron: yeah the sane gentoo part i can figure out no problem. just never coded in ADA before
danielpbarron: how to start writing ADA on sane gentoo?
asciilifeform: (i loathe ada, but this needs a BOUNDS-CHECKED language where i can AUDIT THE BINARY and NO RUNTIME COMPONENT / GC - which leaves exactly ONE)
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-03-2016#1428471 << ada. ☝︎
jurov: because on C mechine, succumbing to various kinds of magic colored pointer unions is practical necessity.. so ada type safety should help
jurov: but in the course of this, i got an idea, is there a small lisp/scheme implemented in ada?
asciilifeform: instead of ada.
assbot: Logged on 24-02-2015 04:28:49; asciilifeform: just got 'ada 95: the language, reference manual, and standard libraries' ansi/iso/iec-8652:1995 in the post
mod6: asciilifeform: did you ever mention a de-facto ADA book?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: This is why /me leans towards well designed altcoin as solution. Something capable being ada-ified, but perhaps implementable in rougher form.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-02-2016#1417379 << now this is complicated. commonlisp is standardized (next to ada, ~the~ most standardized language - compliance is iron, and you can actually ~use~ it as per the standard) - BUT - massive, and unsuitable for inclusion in a larger proggy. scheme, on the other hand, is also well-standardized - r5rs (ignore r6 and after, the weevils got to it) BUT the language is unusably ☝︎
kakobrekla: because ada has huge overhead?
asciilifeform: wtf, why would ~generated~ ada seem like a good idea.
kakobrekla: compiler? it generates the code to be compiled. apparently can generate ada too.
punkman: ah apparently some Apollo mission thing, built on Ada
punkman: thestringpuller: I guess answer to my own question, "WoT provides practical solution". If derp wants to learn, learn from trusted teacher in WoT. << /me is waiting for Ada master in need of apprentice
phf: the only redeeming quality in this case, that there aren't better standards available, except for maybe Ada (i've not looked). you end up with trade offs, or hard constraints that make the result non-portable. a positive aspect of cl standard is that you get reasonably similar behavior on very wide range of hardware, but i agree that things could always be better
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-01-2016#1362563 << it is provably impossible in the general case, which (i think) everybody knows. but did ben_vulpes miss the ada threads ? you can do it for particular programs. just, the usefulness is questionable imho. ☝︎
ascii_field: gcc doesn't give a flying fuck whether c, cpp, fortran, ada, objc
mod6: i need to get up to speed on ADA
assbot: cforler/Ada-Crypto-Library · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1V4kIKg )
punkman: ascii_field: didn't find any C in this but didn't look hard https://github.com/cforler/Ada-Crypto-Library
punkman: you mean the Ada-Crypto-Library?
jurov: in ada
punkman: I think I might try to make some kind of hand-cranked Ada tx signer
punkman: "Not to be "that guy", but as cool as it is to ponder doing this in some bright, shiny language like Rust or ML, Ada exists for a reason.  There's even an open source compiler (Gnat) that can already generate code that can link with C/C++/etc code bases.  Work would need to go into streamlining the run time overhead for this use case, but how much compared to maintaining some C compiler
assbot: Logged on 21-12-2015 19:53:23; jurov: https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!msg/boring-crypto/48qa1kWignU/o8GGp2K1DAAJ << where djb secretly desires ada
jurov: https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!msg/boring-crypto/48qa1kWignU/o8GGp2K1DAAJ << where djb secretly desires ada ☟︎
punkman: been reading more Ada at odd intervals, keeps getting weirder
asciilifeform: phun phakt: a conforming ada implementation has ~internal bignum~ BUT won't let you use it for anything constructive.
punkman: there's an ada crypto library that does EC
assbot: Who's Using Ada? ... ( http://bit.ly/1NTIvHd )
asciilifeform: aside from this, http://www.seas.gwu.edu/~mfeldman/ada-project-summary.html
asciilifeform: (written in ada, yes)
assbot: Ada Programs ... ( http://bit.ly/1NTHkaB )
asciilifeform: adlai: http://cs.fit.edu/~ryan/ada/programs << mega-collection of examples ☟︎
assbot: Safe and Secure Software - An invitation to Ada 2005 | Technical Papers | Knowledge Center | AdaCore ... ( http://bit.ly/1NTGJWm )
adlai would vote for ada but wouldn't have any insider knowledge to make that a rational bet
trinque: if it were the ADA version or even one written with as few deps as possible, I'd grant you're right
mircea_popescu: so why don't you do something ? here's alf bending over the task of routing circuits in the blockchain implemented in ada
ascii_field: thestringpuller: the committee took its sweet time lifting features from ada, functional langs (even lambdas…) etc. but does your compiler have them now ?
ascii_field: the one where ada.
asciilifeform: this means, almost inescapably - ada. with proofs.
asciilifeform: (will somebody PLEASE wake me up if they learn of an alternative to ada?!!!)