mircea_popescu: i am currently of the " ' technology won't be solving human problems ' has been deeply abused and is taking its pound of flesh" school of thought.
phf: <mircea_popescu> [20:02:06] i am currently of the " ' technology won't be solving human problems ' has been deeply abused and is taking its pound of flesh" school of thought. << i failed to parse, you saying "technology won't solve" has been overused, and there's need to lean in opposite direction?
mircea_popescu: phf there's no need to lean or anything ; but the fact remains that if you're unhappy with the way in which fights between toddlers and adults are coming out, giving the toddlers fancier rifles is not likely to do much.
mircea_popescu: pretty much the ~only way such an attempt ends up is into a f-35, sooner or later.
hanbot:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2016#1437059 << that sounds like the most sane solution on tap for efficiency & accuracy both. and honestly...crawling back through the last coupla weeks' logs to study this i couldn't really be paid. much as i'd like to lend some time to folks actually doing good work, this place is reeking rotten already.
☝︎ assbot: Logged on 21-03-2016 07:43:11; mircea_popescu: hanbot mod6 maybe an extension to deedbot where people could go !tag <string> and then a collection of clickable tags is published somewhere, each leading to a list of loglines ?
mircea_popescu: the all-permeating smell of the young male, eh ? supposedly the world is built on these, you know.
hanbot: mircea_popescu i'm really interested in 'em, dead or alive.
assbot: Logged on 08-03-2016 17:07:08; asciilifeform: anyway i do not know hanbot very well, cannot speak for hanbot.
phf: prometheus was appropriately punished for his infraction, but little good that did
hanbot: mircea_popescu you know that line gave me pause at the time, but i figured he was entertaining the noisebox so what do i know what he's answering to. all in all though, pretty odd.
mircea_popescu: no, i'm not. i noticed it then, and was deeply surprised she was even considering doing anything ; not surprised in the end result.
hanbot: eh, don't worry about it asciilifeform
phf: there was a blog in the early days of medium, that was basically snippets from irc conversations. my impression was that the display software was gradually hacked into turning out increasingly cleaner posts through various in-channel annotations, like ;tag, ;post, etc. there was significant amount of editorializing though. so someone was responsible, at the end of the thread, to turn it into a post. we kind of have that adhoc, and md
phf: does it the most, but we could help or outright automate the process through annotations
phf: i periodically try and remember its name to plunder for ideas, but failing so far..
trinque: I'm nearly done with my deedbot- rewrite; I could add this as well. deed the list of tags per $interval or something
trinque: phf: took your example and wrote a CLOS thing for pluggable services.
trinque: new deedbot currently lurks in #deedbutt-test
trinque: guy even knows how to ghost his nick
trinque: asciilifeform: perhaps usg's threat is they will shame Apple in public unless they privately bend over more obediently
phf: "i don't speak for hanbot for hanbot has a tongue."
trinque: perhaps usg asked something drastic enough apple is concerned
trinque: absent that I have to assume sheer incoherence on the part of hitler
trinque: incoherent that they ever made a public fight of it
phf: asciilifeform: nah, was actual blog, i started reading it when it had coherent topical posts, but studying their history, it started as snippets and gradually acquired features. like early posts were straight up logs, later names were stripped and only text from "posters" retained, etc.
phf: asciilifeform: so i actually made an effort to go through my notes and found it immediately,
http://2lmc.org/spool/. they nuked their entire log and just one static page remains, hmm
phf: but you can get general idea
mircea_popescu: trinque> guy even knows how to ghost his nick << nice stuff.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i once met a young girl who thought she is no good with math. she was creative you see, and on her grave was to be inscribed a vintage purse rather than a badly unresolved equation.
mircea_popescu: she can integrate now, and it didn't even take that many whippings.
phf: asciilifeform: etsy as failed woman minimax, sort of the opposite of theorems
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> phf: you may have been thinking of bash.org ? << i don't think he is and i have a vague recollection of this from the very early 2000s that i also can't place
mircea_popescu: but if you asked me i'd have thought mine was romanian
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> trinque: idea was to play stupid & set judicial precedent in favour of arbitrary do-what-we-say orders << i think trinque is much closer to the facts of the field. beast doth not know what it wants not merely for the provable impossibility of such a want, but mostly for absence of a want organ.
mircea_popescu: it wasn't a cartoon. it was a "book of practical activities for making puppets and designing scenes". superadvanced art stuff for ro genius kids
phf: give me here on a platter the head of john the baptist
mircea_popescu: that at least could be satisfied. even in 80s cold dark romania, proper jools could in principle be had.
mircea_popescu: much long ago, when chet was a young woman, with children like many here she tried to prepare herself, like many here try. so she had an answer all ready for the eventual inevitable moment her oldest was going to inquire why the sky is blue.
mircea_popescu: go, tell three year old that the sky isn't a thing, pristina rosa, all that.
mircea_popescu: in other crazy news, i just popped (ie, got a major loot) in eulora. 1+ bitcent's worth of brave man's nosehairs.
mod6: thanks for the pointer asciilifeform
mod6: oh yeah, this first link is a trove of examples. nice.
mod6: If the software must absolutely work wit
mod6: hout error, where a software accident could
mod6: kill or maim, Ada is the correct choice.
mod6: sounds like the right idea
phf: (load-canonical-entries)
phf: oops, my first ben_vulpes
mod6: there have been, three people iirc that have pasted their passwords in here
mod6: yeah, i'd seen the name before, but never heard anything about it until you were talkin about it. now it interests me because bitcoin needs to work better than a goddamn 777
mod6: well, we'll see when i start getting into it. ive liked playing with scheme.
mod6: i've bee working my way though all the examples in sicp
mod6: eh, im sure if i get the hang of its conventions, etc., i'll get somehow masochistically into it.
mod6: oh i got that one ref manual from 95
mod6: yeah, flipping through the book -- it's pretty dense.
mod6: Ada 95 Reference Manual. Language and Standard Libraries: International Standard << this one
mod6: is tail recursion always defined such that there are O(n) steps in O(1) space?
mod6: right, they said something about C/C++/et.al that have a loop construct such as 'do/while' 'for' 'foreach' etc, as a defect in the lang. lol
mircea_popescu: did everyone see the funarg funerales argentinos thing ?
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, bitcoin needs not merely a "protocol standard".
mircea_popescu: and we won't even fucking know the standard is anything but elaborate cumcake until the rationale part stands up.
mircea_popescu: and we don't even have the fucking conceptual girder to even comprehend what the rationale'd be on (in terms of, what are the primitives)
mircea_popescu: maybe it should be all based on colors for all we know.
mats: on a moar flippant note,
mats: i found a 24x36in wooden frame and currently looking for pranks to play with it (apr1 is fast approaching)
mats: my best idea is to print a hi-res portrait of a coworker and put something like 'January 1985 to March 2016' at the bottom, then hide in the office somewhere
mats: but, i am open to proposals
mats: (idea with prior is, folks see portrait, then coworker, wonder why a dead man is walking around)
mats: a wasps nest could be good, however, i am not strong in the crafting arts
mats: i also considered a portrait of myself, perhaps in a classic mao pose
mod6: works, seems will take some getting used to though.
mod6: i'll have to keep picking away at it.
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2016 00:16:30; asciilifeform: (the real question is why usg would ever admit to it - whole point of the charade was to build precedent-setting verdict. i suppose this outcome became in doubt, and whole thing was brought to what is intended as a quiet burial ?)
assbot: Brussels airport: casualties reported after explosions – live updates | World news | The Guardian ... (
http://bit.ly/1WEK0PK )
BingoBoingo: I thought JCVD was supposed to keep these things from happening in Belgium because Action Movie!
jurov: "Children carry more than 72 known diseases. A bite or scratch can be fatal."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17169 @ 0.00041887 = 7.1916 BTC [+]
davout: major french newspaper writes about blocksize debate Oo
☟︎ BingoBoingo enjoys the "actual damages" getting nice round numbers while punitive damages get a decimal point
jurov: orlov believes in trump?
jurov: these are
http requests to your server?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes> motherfucking moving target << check out the premonitory quality of the vulpes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform note that technically, the machine can be powered on anything. soviets dekulakized the very dekulakizers at least twice ; mao did it at least once,
mircea_popescu: there's nothing special about the various clones of bill de blasio that prevents them from being made into soap.
assbot: BitBet - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match :: 80.22 B (54%) on Yes, 68.59 B (46%) on No | closed 1 week 6 days ago ... (
http://bit.ly/1VAzFWO )
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 416.24, vol: 3765.96832155 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 413.851, vol: 5469.25419 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 416.84, vol: 10558.83503659 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 419.745285, vol: 33763.96200000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 415.47, vol: 2197.14009358 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 421.410112, vol: 38.75157245 | Volume-weighted last average: 418.213873349
nubbins`: i would've put money on a heart attack, perhaps exacerbated by drug use, not cancer
phf: ben_vulpes: do you know any css libraries that will give me bootstrap style layout techniques, without rest of bootstrap (columns, show/hide conditional based on medium)
trinque: phf: ever use flexbox? something resembling a layout system ended up in the standard itself
trinque: my approach tends to be to set different flexbox rules depending on viewport size
phf: that looks neat, but is there a compiler that adds retro compatibility?
phf: that's a bit too many dirty words for my taste, but i'll give it a try
nubbins`: asciilifeform did you receive yr textiles yet?
☟︎ mrottenkolber: asciilifeform: So I dowloaded v99.tar.gz because I thought it was a cool hack, and expected the following to work: (inside the v99 directory): ./v.py -v --wot wot --seals sigs patches f
mrottenkolber: asciilifeform: But I get WARNING: asciilifeform-kills-integer-retardation.vpatch.asciilifeform.sig is an INVALID seal for asciilifeform-kills-integer-retardation.vpatch !
nubbins`: mrottenkolber did you try manually verifying the sig?
mrottenkolber: Naive question: what would be the implications of using sha1 instead of sha512 in vdiff? (thinking about porting V to git hooks/aliases)
mrottenkolber: My point is the toposort isn't really part of the problem v solves. The function is to cryptographically verfiy a sequence of patches (based on a wot), who cares where that sequence comes from, as long as each patch (commit) has a signature.
phf: mrottenkolber: if that's your only goal, you don't need v for that. git already does it for you by having a linearly hashed commit chain. right now you have a reasonable way of verifying the git chain from the top hash, but you can't make any crypto claims about it, since the hashes are sha1
mrottenkolber: phf: That's why I thought about adding signatures of “git vdiff” to commit messages and an alias/command to verify a branch.
phf: asciilifeform: well, you can verify data without verifying git. i've done it, and the thing definitely produces a semblance of "blockchain", i.e. later commits hashes previous commits' hashes, so you can if you ignore the sha1 issue, take a git branch and confirm its uniqueness from the final hash
mrottenkolber: will probably not be chatting that much, but I am very keen of actually starting to build some wotness. My gpg is useless right now its so bare.
mrottenkolber: !register 76EB8DE4EA28A5C4746C71AA7C7F34CDCF4CDA75
assbot: Searching pgp.mit.edu for key with fingerprint: 76EB8DE4EA28A5C4746C71AA7C7F34CDCF4CDA75. This may take a few moments.
assbot: Key CF4CDA75 / "Max Rottenkolber <max@mr.gy>" successfully imported.
assbot: Registration successful.
phf: mrottenkolber: a better place to wire v would be mercurial's mq facility. mercurial has a way of managing plaintext patchsets, to do things like patch refresh, i.e update the contents of patch from the current tree state, mercurial managed patch press, i.e. instead of doing "manual" v press hg will keep track of state for you, etc. this will not be a way to share patches, as much as a way to facilitate vpatch authoring.
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for mrottenkolber with note: new blood
mrottenkolber: I am only mentioning the sha1 option because I don't understand crypto well enough to be able to rationalize the effort of producing a file, with the same sha1sum, with an exploit while the patch still applies.
mrottenkolber: But e.g. in my head, if you spend 70k to compute a sha1 collision, it won't look like C code probably ;-)
mircea_popescu: will be signign the davout application later today myself.
mrottenkolber: I read about v and liked the hack, ran into the expired signature and well...
mircea_popescu: mrottenkolber> Naive question: what would be the implications of using sha1 instead of sha512 in vdiff? << roughly speaking you'd be going back in time, we're by and large in the process of moving to sha-3
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform something tells me commenter has never seen hyenas. wtf, some of the most social animals, in its good days washington dc polite society more or less approximates pack of hyenas.
mrottenkolber: I have absolutely no interest in bitcoin to be honest, don't see the point.
mircea_popescu: mrottenkolber nothing i said was related to bitcoin, was it ?
mrottenkolber: mircea_popescu: No, sorry, still mumbling aout the why I am in b-a
mircea_popescu: well if you're curious, free money is the basis for the existence of the republic which is the reason stuff like v ended up existing. but i suppose from outside this string of actual events may as well be coincidental.
mrottenkolber: I totally get why bitcoin development motivates v, obviously there is motivation for adversaries here.
mrottenkolber: I am indeed using ssl to connect to freenode, this assbot thing might actually work. :D
phf: we're an anarcho-syndicalist commune. we take it in turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the week.
mircea_popescu: turns out, re prev tagging discussion, that ... we're already doing a rudimentary, grassroots sort of that.
trinque: there's some lovely filth over here!
mircea_popescu: but my main concern with that scheme, upon meditation, is that... ok, brace yourselves :
mircea_popescu: mrottenkolber don't kid yourself, they're living in a dictator sheep.
phf: trinque: now you're confusing it with eulora
mircea_popescu: so, IF we start tagging things in chan, this is indistinguishable from good old spam. (textual content of no textual intent).
mircea_popescu: i suppose this could be mediated by doing the tagging over pm
trinque: hm. it does invite that abominable hashtag social media tic.
davout: if nobody remembers how to find a particular thread, maybe that thread isn't really worth remembering after all
mircea_popescu: if someone, as oft is the case for say mod6, is trying to make the whole pile of what was said abvout X, they encounter a very present difficulty.
☟︎ davout: re the mp describes a HF that danielpbarron ended up blawging about?
davout: ok, i meant that this issue came up when you were talking about "what should go into a tmsr fork" that danielpbarron ended up summarizing on his blog?
davout: anyway, my point is that if nobody remembers, that nobody bothered to blog it, the fact that completeness is a problem might indicate a violation of fits-in-head
ben_vulpes: fitting in head requires lopping all extraneous log comments off.
mircea_popescu: would actually the idea of pm tagging for each DAY solve anything / be worth anything ?
mircea_popescu: or is it the sort of midway solution that's the average of man and woman and horse and chimney ?
ben_vulpes: i recently took a 45 minute sojourn into the history of "protocol vs. promise"
ben_vulpes: 'twas not actually that hard, but it did take knowing the variety speak thoroughly.
davout: mircea_popescu: maybe use log.b-a.com for that purpose? how would pm tagging work?
mircea_popescu: the sad fact of the matter is that summarization squarely relies on ignorance. there's no obvious way around that rock.
mircea_popescu: davout you pm deedbot with a list of strings which it retains for the day, prints a cloud somewhere, one can click items in cloud to get list of days so tagged
mircea_popescu: but the complexity of this notion is rapidly expanding.
ben_vulpes: another good topic is "specificity of diddling".
ben_vulpes: i have been failing to shit words on the topic out because i think of familiarity with it. it all seems so obvious!
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes happens to me all the time! then alf runs off and invents it and i'm like fuuuu wasn't this on trilema!
☟︎ assbot: Logged on 22-11-2015 06:30:10; mircea_popescu: abstraction is loss. you throw out all sorts of stuff and hope&pray that it wasn't actually needed.
mircea_popescu: ~only way to make a shorter text reliably is to rely on specified notation known in advance.
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.mrottenkolber.1:7ae7bb4fe0a9bf41b838dc065d19fceca42142f999e7016fa2cd143e92a2412f
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for mrottenkolber with note: New blood
mircea_popescu: phf i heard this privately too, during rebasing debate, "pretty much the only way to manage this insanity is to put it on mercurial"
mircea_popescu: mrottenkolber> Obviously, I wouldn't bet on it. << trivial, add comment.
mircea_popescu: non, rien de rien, je ne regrette rien! ni le bon, ni le mal...
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2016 20:49:10; mircea_popescu: if someone, as oft is the case for say mod6, is trying to make the whole pile of what was said abvout X, they encounter a very present difficulty.
phf: mercurial has a handy patch management mechanism, that unfortunatly doesn't understand nor produces vpatches. i basically verify vpatches manually, and then put them into hg's patch folder. then i do a topo sort, which gives me a mercurial compatible "series" file. i let mercurial press it using that series file. whole process is more complicated then should be with a proper mercurial support, but i hnfi how people rebase, refresh,
phf: diff, etc. without it
phf: mechanism has nothing to do with "mercurial" as such, and is more akin to old school patch management system, "quilt"
mircea_popescu: not like it couldn't in principle be gutted/rewritten in part.
ben_vulpes: i press to confirm patch validity and then commit the changes to my local version controlatron.
ben_vulpes: that way i can rebase, etc whenever i care to.
mircea_popescu: then again, the people who aren't me that actually care/understand computers tend to .
mircea_popescu: it's splendid, really. the fact that i can run it on a random box and trust the result pales anything else.
ben_vulpes: perhaps the *other* way to go about this is simply to make patches against the base 0.5.3, and then anyone wanting to apply them may do so in whatever order they choose, resolving conflicts as they feel.
mircea_popescu: well alternatively one could also shit on exposed cable and let the bits sort themselves into software as they will
mircea_popescu: why the hell not. how much worse than present situation could it be.
mircea_popescu: no, v is great even if painful - because it's painful to the right people, which are the people who aren't me.
ben_vulpes: and only if used as a hammer and not microscope.
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2016 20:56:07; mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes happens to me all the time! then alf runs off and invents it and i'm like fuuuu wasn't this on trilema!
mircea_popescu: invention is like true love. you gotta be a certain age to believe it with all your heart.
mircea_popescu: hopefully you never get old enough to credit it altogether.
davout guesses that's one field where stuff done by hand is actually easier
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2016 19:44:42; nubbins`: asciilifeform did you receive yr textiles yet?
nubbins`: banking, where the hours are great even if the pay sucks
nubbins`: so i built a "hackintosh" computer, just realized i hadn't bothered to put the video card into the thing
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: boxes do not get delivered to your domicile?
ben_vulpes: this is a special hell of paranoia, asciilifeform.
gribble: Current Blocks: 403836 | Current Difficulty: 1.6549683511822635E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 405215 | Next Difficulty In: 1379 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 6 hours, 7 minutes, and 14 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
gernika: apropos of nothing, I just attempted to download a .pdf formatted datasheet and received a PDF FORMATTED error message.
davout recently learned that PDF could contain javascript
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2016 12:19:03; davout: major french newspaper writes about blocksize debate Oo
davout: where do you see a karpeles quote?
davout: "Victime de son succès" ?
mircea_popescu: "bitcoin in terms of gavin and maku kalaposu", a pretty good satirical premise, i grant.
mrottenkolber: Not sure what `git commit -S' signs exactly, but...
mrottenkolber: assuming it signs the whole commit object, given `merge --verify-signatures' is probably reasonably secure.
ben_vulpes: mrottenkolber: forgive my thickness but /why/ are you doing this?
trinque: +mrottenkolber │ assuming ... is probably reasonably secure. << pls do not give poor asciilifeform an early death by ulcer
mircea_popescu: lol they finally found the true vocation of 3d printed items, glorified doorstops ?