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asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: car lease in usa is a mega-scam. they cap the mileage.
asciilifeform: if you ~actually use the thing~ you pay penalty, through the nose.
mod6: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2016-April/000219.html
ben_vulpes: how is car renting not a poorfag thing?!
ben_vulpes: "hi i would like to pay interest on the loan for this car and also the one that you'll replace it with."
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: where i live, car leases are typically used by 'poorfag' to pretend to be richer
asciilifeform: (by showing up at social gatherings with a 'fatter' car)
ben_vulpes: here too!
ben_vulpes: but not for "showing up for events" but for "showing up for the commute"
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: what kind of lunatic cares what commute people think of their machine ?
ben_vulpes: the same kind of people who lease cars!
ben_vulpes: iono man when i want to show up at a party in a stupidly expensive car for fun, i rent something ludicrous not a fucking ford
ben_vulpes: "holy shit is that your daily driver?!"
asciilifeform: show up in a tower crane
ben_vulpes: "no dood i rented it for laffs for tonight."
asciilifeform: towing a wood chipper or two.
ben_vulpes: tempting!
ben_vulpes: although i'd go for an excavator
asciilifeform: i dun think you can drive those on the highway
asciilifeform: no high gear
ben_vulpes: 'tis here
ben_vulpes: farm equipment is entirely allowed on the highway here, mostly because...we have farms.
asciilifeform: sure, if party is next door.
ben_vulpes: oh well in that case just budget 2 hours to drive it
ben_vulpes: or have it delivered up the street
asciilifeform: aha.
BingoBoingo: show up with sprayer. park safely over some other dude's car
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski used to, at any rate. ain't no 1990s anymore.
mircea_popescu: heck, there was a time mtv mix parties were the shit.
mircea_popescu: the notion that anyone'd buy ireland bonds... srsly ? shit country ever since 1016 ad.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: what kind of lunatic << you don't understand cubical culture.
mircea_popescu: ask gavin, he'll explain it to you.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes> or have it delivered up the street << i have a friend who many years ago showed up in antique steamroller.
asciilifeform: bawwahhat?!
mircea_popescu: not QUITE actually steam powered ; not far off either.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform exactly as described : had it delivered up the block around corner.
asciilifeform: nono
asciilifeform: the gavin thing
mircea_popescu: ah.
deedbot-: [Qntra] Qntra (S.QNTR) March 2016 Report - http://qntra.net/2016/04/qntra-s-qntr-march-2016-report/
asciilifeform: so what is this 'culture'
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It's wage culture
mircea_popescu: how to splain... hm...
BingoBoingo: 'tenure' et al
mircea_popescu: dirty white collar culture.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i grunt for wage, what of it
mircea_popescu: eh you have no idea.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Not in the same way as Gavin.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: more so! i clock motherfucking hour
mircea_popescu: rtecall my "buy 2015 agenda on time" pics ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Gavin is in a union
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the egyptian orcs ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Gavin is General Motors goon whereas you are more... Toyota
asciilifeform: the thing about cars as peacock objects, is esp. mysterious; e.g., none of the folks i work with have ever even ~seen~ my car
mircea_popescu: no, here.
asciilifeform: it gets parked in underground garage N floors down
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Two very different kinds of wagery there
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: count me as lost in this analogy
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform these people aren't worth covered parking.
mircea_popescu: heck, it's a toss-up whether they even get to park in the parking lot.
asciilifeform: waiwut
mircea_popescu: yes.
asciilifeform: not on this planet.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I dunno how to save it. You way be too coastal and insufficiently rust belt.
mircea_popescu: in your very country lol.
asciilifeform: even nsa 'gs-9' grunt get parking spot. (phunphakt: ft meade - world's largest parking lot.)
mircea_popescu: how easy this guy has it you know, he declares everything under him = 0, then never has to be confronted with a "hey, change places".
mircea_popescu: oral gymnastics!
asciilifeform: i only can disagree with this one bit, i know of no wage slave who does not get parking spot, the auto is holy in these lands.
mircea_popescu: so you don't know. what of it ?
mircea_popescu: they do exist.
asciilifeform: i can believe this purely on faith.
mircea_popescu: gotta park on the street, by the meter. no space in parking lot. and no garage.
asciilifeform: having never met these folk in any capacity.
asciilifeform: even the quasi-legal mexican janitors at every place i ever worked, got to park.
mircea_popescu: well cuz they make minwage+1 / 2 and own two button down shirts.
asciilifeform: at any rate, unless the mit link is enemy propaganda and wholly fictitious, gavin doesn't even ~need~ a car
asciilifeform: he sits pretty in his nice house and collects payolade.
mircea_popescu: he certainly knows of this thing you can't even conceive.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Gavin gets to lease a car, because he's got that Union job at the mill. PAID LUNCH!
mircea_popescu: http://www.quality-construct.ro/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/IMG_0079-1024x768.jpg << sweet ride in question, almost identical item, for the curious.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo et al: from where did you get the notion that he leased a car, or knew what it is like to be denied even parking space, etc. ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: link appears to be dead
mircea_popescu: no ?!
asciilifeform: aha.
asciilifeform: socket - hangs.
mircea_popescu: https://archive.is/ag5XL
asciilifeform: this worx.
asciilifeform: looks like a sov machine.
mircea_popescu: quite ya
asciilifeform: i think i had a toy one as a boy.
mircea_popescu: hence the peacock value ya
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It's what the MIT/General Motors working set does. They've bought in on the mythos.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i don't see how gavin is part of a set, ~no mit folk get to sit at home and collect money for nothing.
asciilifeform: i'm not aware of any positions there which even include 100% tele.
BingoBoingo: Then what does RMS do in his closet?
asciilifeform: rms is not an employee of mit.
asciilifeform: hasn't been since 1970s
asciilifeform: afaik
asciilifeform: note, gavin is not, either, according to the communique
asciilifeform: he is a grantee
asciilifeform: he is not an employee, does not clock hours or report to a boss, and is not - in as far as i can surmise - accountable to anyone, for anything he does.
mircea_popescu: tis is so fucking stupid already...
mircea_popescu: according to the data available, cow has best life. mkay!
asciilifeform: he might be cow, but not at a farm, but in india.
asciilifeform: running free, shitting everywhere it wants.
mircea_popescu: where "cow" "farm" and "india" mean things i didn't even dream, but constructed tendentiously and ex post facto.
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu tells me that the mit proclamation is a lie - i will believe him
mircea_popescu: looky, there's nothing wrong with your hollywood inclination. it's, from what i hear, inescapable in first generation americans. nevertheless, it is not factual.
asciilifeform: i would, in fact, like some handle on the factz
asciilifeform: but where to get.
mircea_popescu: i dunno, fuck the guy's wife ?
mircea_popescu: see if she wants to borrow money.
asciilifeform: he had a wife?!
mircea_popescu: ffs.
mircea_popescu: how did you figure gavin bell ended up andresen ?
asciilifeform: waiwut
asciilifeform: srsly?!
mircea_popescu: i dunno how to get a handle on facts!!11
asciilifeform: holy fuq, what kinda bloke changes his name for the wife's ?!
mircea_popescu: i bet you've not as much as looked at the schmuck's cv or anything ? just sat on ass and journalised ?
mircea_popescu: this is shameful behaviour in adults!!
asciilifeform: i dun have an intel agency!1111
mircea_popescu: o i c.
mircea_popescu: well i guess a fantasy agency can substitute then!
asciilifeform: My Arse (tm) is an oracle!111 not a lowly intelligence agency!11111
mircea_popescu: o i c. your arse is also solvent, which is more than can be said for him.
asciilifeform: believe or not, it is presently.
mircea_popescu: i know, i know.
asciilifeform: to whom is the schmuck in debt, i wonder
asciilifeform: to ndranghetta ?
mircea_popescu: i dunno... mit-tron ?
BingoBoingo: I haven't checked this. mircea_popescu do you know off hand if the Amherst city council position he holds has a stipend?
mircea_popescu: nah. they never do.
BingoBoingo: Around here even the tiniest towns do 1-3 kilodollars per anum
mircea_popescu: i'd be surprised. mass is very haughty like that.
BingoBoingo: ic
mircea_popescu: " At the October Meeting, Board members voted to award a gift membership to Gavin Andresen for his exceptional service working with our Bulletin Editor, Rebecca Fricke, on the League’s recently redesigned website, www.lwvamherst.org ." << i guess he gets 20 bucks in gift certs or somesuch.
BingoBoingo: AJAHAHAHA
BingoBoingo: Gift certificates to https://archive.is/pCTV3 ???
mircea_popescu: no idea. some women's thing.
BingoBoingo: Anyways, I got out of my time machine and I've discovered some facebook posts from Gavin's future https://i.imgur.com/4DRHHGI.png
mike_c: hey phf - I heard you might be working on a log for this chan. is that true?
mircea_popescu: afaik trinque also.
mike_c: ah, cool. the more logs the merrier.
phf: mike_c: yes
phf: i should have it working over the weekend
mike_c: nice.
asciilifeform: phun phakt: ada has no shortcircuit evaluation of boolean exprs unless explicitly specified.
mike_c: oh, interesting. so if x or y evaluates y regardless of x?
phf: mike_c: i actually have an old version of log working, http://glyf.org/h/t-a if you want to read the backlog
mike_c: thanks! reading now.
phf: mike_c: can also do this http://glyf.org/h/t-a?nick=mike_c&inline (warning for the paranoid people, inline enables inline images)
phf: this is totally own dogfood, so bon appetite, but since the log is missing entirely, this will at least get people through until there's something more permanent
mike_c: most importantly, the content is there.
phf: the nick thingy does highlight by your nick, which is handy if you're trying to find mentions or conversations that you had
mike_c: yeah. it's interesting. ctrl-f works too though
phf: yeah, it's for rapid skimming on iphone :]
phf: there's also back=numberofdays which loads backlog of numberofdays days
phf: i.e. back=1
mike_c: what's the default?
phf: today EST
phf: back=1 would be today and yesterday est, etc.
mike_c: ah. that is definitely useful
phf: new version for public consumption has nav menu, etc.
phf: also it doesn't re-parse txt files from file system on each page hit...
phf: in other words i'll be surprised if it's still running when i wake up tomorrow
phf bbl
mike_c: lol. well I'll be sure to finish reading it before I reload the page :)
mircea_popescu: why not just make 1 day = 1 page liek sane people srsly.
asciilifeform: why not fill width of screen, like sane people1111
mike_c: <+phf> this is totally own dogfood, so bon appetite, but since the log is missing entirely, this will at least get people through until there's something more permanent
mike_c: obviously he reads it on his phone, so it probably does fill his screen.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform BingoBoingo since you two seemed to give a shit or w/e, http://www.filedropper.com/showdownload.php/gavin-real-estatetargz
deedbot-: [» Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski] Cheep Pete’s Guide To Not Being A Poorfag - http://www.contravex.com/2016/03/31/cheep-petes-guide-to-not-being-a-poorfag/
ben_vulpes: ten dollar tacos?!
ben_vulpes: i grow convinced that wherever pete_dushenski hails from is even weirder than asciilifeform's big gulag
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: this interest rate claim: are you implying that house prices go up when interest rates go down, ergo the house won't appreciate if you buy when rates are low and so don't?
ben_vulpes: 1% interest on checking or savings accounts oh my sides
ben_vulpes: canadoes that?
ben_vulpes: (and where is the "lease don't buy your car!1" tip?)
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes he has a point re the interest rates.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/2016/03/31/cheep-petes-guide-to-not-being-a-poorfag/#comment-42674
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: interesting gavin-heap
asciilifeform has not fully digested it yet
asciilifeform bbl
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski mixing things like "make a budget" and "pack a lunch / brew your own coffee" seems improper.
PeterL: save even more money, brew your own beer!
danielpbarron: pretty sure it costs more to make beer than to buy it; my brother does that and it's a whole lot of work for not a lot of beer
PeterL: pete_dushenski have you ever read the book "the total money makeover" by Dave Ramsey? I recommend the book, makes mostly similar points to your post
PeterL: danielpbarron I guess it depends on how you do it, I never did beer, but I made mead, and it was much cheaper than buying an equivalent volume, about an hour of work and a few weeks of waiting
danielpbarron: yeah beer is much more involved
mircea_popescu: you folks gotta try teh elderberry cordial.
PeterL: ben_vulpes> 1% interest on checking or savings accounts oh my sides << at my local credit union you can get 2% interest with a 5 year certificate, does not keep up with inflation but its better than no interest
PeterL: but yeah, a "savings account" gets 0.1% APY
shinohai makes a few bottles of wine every fall
shinohai: I have elderberries and blueberries.
mircea_popescu: nice.
deedbot-: [Qntra] Latest Bitcoin Network Difficulty Adjustment ~0.82% - http://qntra.net/2016/04/latest-bitcoin-network-difficulty-adjustment-0-82/
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo hey do you recall the lafond article where he describes some woman taking a cab to escape urban race war and some dudes trying to flag it down to rape her ?
BingoBoingo: not offhand
mircea_popescu: darn.
mircea_popescu: well i guess i grep lafond in log.
phf: going to harm city tonight, after lafond articles fully expect packs of roaming black urban youths terrorizing solitary whites all over the place
mircea_popescu: god damned it. so half hour's research has produced not the article i was looking for, and the knowledge that decimation actually introduced lafond to the chan.
phf: lafond's long been part of collective tmsr unconscious thanks to BingoBoingo
mircea_popescu: first link is May 05 23:23:08 <decimation> http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=2338 < baltimore man writes about what he saw
mircea_popescu: that's may 2015.
phf: huh, well then. i somehow though people were reading him before the riots
phf actually remembers that very log entry
mircea_popescu: first i found, mebbe i'm missing something, but no i dun recall him being discussed prior.
shinohai: $part
mircea_popescu: $sex
mircea_popescu: this fembot sucks
mircea_popescu: i mean... blows.
mircea_popescu: god damned it.
shinohai: $part
shinohai: finally
deedbot-: [Trilema] Outrageous MP's guide to not being a poorfag - http://trilema.com/2016/outrageous-mps-guide-to-not-being-a-poorfag/
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i was actually trying to figure out what that interest rate point /was/
asciilifeform: Apr 01 10:22:12 <mircea_popescu>god damned it. so half hour's research has produced not the article i was looking for, and the knowledge that decimation actually introduced lafond to the chan. << decimation introduced the thread about atomic clocks also. so cesium clock is a sc4m?!
mircea_popescu: so huh ?
mircea_popescu: how's scam enter into this
asciilifeform: nfi, just pointing out that not everything the schmuck did was a work of evil
mircea_popescu: i wasn't proposing any such thing ?
mircea_popescu: in other morning lulz : argentinian owner of a rental wants to get together to discuss changing rental contract because "inflation has gone up".
mircea_popescu: this is a derp who wanted contract in dollars to protect self from inflation, got choice of X in pesos or y in dollars, picked y.
asciilifeform: l0l!
mircea_popescu: no but this is how they think, srsly.
asciilifeform: what does it mean to 'discuss changing rental contract'
asciilifeform: whole point of contract is...
mircea_popescu: that he wants to unilaterally change teh amounts ?
asciilifeform: and not for ~next~ contract but ~now~ ?!
mircea_popescu: hahaha.
mircea_popescu: no seriously. this is argentinian mind at work.
asciilifeform: not even here in the zoo, does this make sense
mircea_popescu: ah, what you don't know is that there's but different zoos.
mircea_popescu: anywya, it was lulzy, guy wanted 12k pesos ; i offered 750 usd which he took - at the time ~6 mo ago it came to about 11k pesos on the black market and it looked like it will imminently will cross 12 13 15 etc.
mircea_popescu: it... never did.
mircea_popescu: to this very day, it's not there.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, dollar liberalized so it's not going up ; prices soared because they're poor and pretentious.
mircea_popescu: lulz of all tim.
phf: btw how does voice work here exactly? a whitelist?
mircea_popescu: atm yes.
asciilifeform: what does 750 usd (per mo?) get mircea_popescu in b-a ?
asciilifeform: a garage ?
mircea_popescu: 1500 sqft or so.
asciilifeform: what would 750 buy a civilian ?
mircea_popescu: but yes, rents are utterly outrageous, everything's gotta come down 2x-3x for sanity.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform perhaps 2/3 that ?
asciilifeform: and of what? (climate-controlled ? vermin-enabled?)
mircea_popescu: normal apt thing. two baths two bedrooms, kitchen, living room, appliances including ac.
asciilifeform: neato
asciilifeform: where i live, 750 would maybe get you an open air parking.
asciilifeform: for small auto.
mircea_popescu: i didn't tell you to live there.
asciilifeform: tru!
mircea_popescu: anyway, it's pretty ridiculous, ro/pl/etc rents are about half that, and that's in the eu.
mircea_popescu: no idea wtf is wrong with this particular thirld world nation, but w/e.
asciilifeform: too many americans spreading printolade ?
mircea_popescu: (actually i do have a pretty good idea - they all live off the govt which is here so much like lice they crowd around)
mircea_popescu: nah.
mircea_popescu: ba is larger than ny. yet another place the us doesn't actually matter all that much.
asciilifeform: i recall chetty mentioned an entire city quarter packed with idiot usaschwitz escapees ?
mircea_popescu: yeah. you know what they do all day ? bitch importantly about how the bus fare went up a quarter peso.
phf: asciilifeform: this is not a particularly interesting exercise, because rent in DC is significantly above what you could be paying anywhere else in the country (except usual suspects, nyc and sf)
mircea_popescu: phf and for the same reason as here : us lives off govt dole, so the lice crowd the capitla.
phf: right, there are no other redeeming qualities or reasons for why rent in dc should be this high
mircea_popescu: moreover, you can readily add wi/mn/whatever to the ro/pl/etc list.
mircea_popescu: $750 gets you a house in iowa.
mircea_popescu: or w/e, ten 2015 ford focus electric rentals.
phf: uber drivers "mang you pay 1500 for yo plaaaas, should move to upper spring heights mang [20 minutes driving from metro, 10 minutes driving from any semblance of food] pay seven hundraaaayd. is cheap!"
mircea_popescu: i guess you have a solid point there - ba is an oldstyle city, eateries on every corner, etc. good reason for rent to be more than what it can be in industrially produced "suburub".
mircea_popescu: nevertheless...
mircea_popescu: you can't possibly convince me that rents can ever exceed ~half the average per capita income
phf: well, right iowa counter example basically loses you all citiness, and you can get that here too
mircea_popescu: which is here about 600 bux
mircea_popescu: (which is not so terrible, even, considering gdp is like 18k pa)
phf: i know nhi couple who own a house in gaithersburg, which is about 40 minute nhi commute (note nhi itself is 30 minutes outside dc center), it's a magnificent place and they put all the toys from their world travels there, englishmen style.
phf: but there's literally nothing within 20 minute drive, fields, some new suburbia, that's it
mircea_popescu: well... country house has its place. i'm just not old enough to want one.
asciilifeform: phf: i dun live in dc
phf: having grown up with a dacha, i grok country house/city apartments, but that's not even under consideration for most people here, unless they are boomers, who bought ocean property in the 60s for peanuts
asciilifeform: phf: i live in the 'cheap' suburbs next to umd.
phf: asciilifeform: my condolences
asciilifeform: i could not in a million years afford to live in the dc city walls.
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: old woman!
asciilifeform: 11:41 <+mircea_popescu> $750 gets you a house in iowa. << aha and iowa shaves a zero off the salary.
mircea_popescu: someone works in iowa ?
mircea_popescu: i thought it's for dormitory.
mircea_popescu: so what's rent like in the cheap suburbs next to umd ?
phf: proper way to deal with iowa is buy a house, get your 800$/mo satellite internet (not even checking what's available, why bother), and do your aerospace/banking/medical it consulting work remote
asciilifeform: <+phf> i know nhi couple ... but there's literally nothing within 20 minute drive << my parents live in a place like this.
mircea_popescu: phf actually internet in midwest way better than on the coasts. usually run by township.
asciilifeform: 11:50 <+mircea_popescu> so what's rent like in the cheap suburbs next to umd ? << i pay ~2k (if you count electric, gas, etc) for <1k sq ft.
mircea_popescu: confirming the age old observation thart socialism works betterf the smaller it is.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform unfurnished also ?
asciilifeform: aha, as i insist
asciilifeform: the FUCK i need some derp's furniture for.
mircea_popescu: so you don't have to haul various pointless ballast ?
phf: mircea_popescu: hard to get furnished here, i price it out every time, and it's an extra 1k a month almost always
mircea_popescu: that's ridoinculous. 1k buys you the swhit in a coupla months.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have extremely nonstandard furniture
phf: that is if you don't lease it yourself from a third party
asciilifeform: because unlike americans, i have books.
mircea_popescu: ah right, you're stuck with the mite traps.
mircea_popescu: phf such a bizarre place you know, they rent last years' car for 2 bux a day, everyone hauls countertops
phf: mircea_popescu: idea is that furnished apartment is for a salariman on remote assignment, like amtrak and services like that, assumption is can jack up a price as much as you want
mircea_popescu: i can't help but think it's a mental issue.
mircea_popescu: how about never mind teh purposes, stick to the causes!
phf: it is expensive to live in this country from causes
phf: not that i don't, but my burn rate is significantly higher than a random schmuck
mircea_popescu: like everywhere huh.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not only books. i have nice desk that holds n displays, etc.
asciilifeform: srsly why would i want the motherfucking pressed shitboard rental furniture.
asciilifeform: WHY.
asciilifeform: if i wanted to live in a hotel, i would live in a hotel !
phf: living in a hotel is more expensive still
mircea_popescu: rentals are exactly that : correctly priced, multi-room hotels.
asciilifeform: i have a motherfucking workshop.
asciilifeform: with things like drill press.
asciilifeform: where should these go? on rental stools in furnished apt ?!
mircea_popescu: ideally, they go in the form of renting time from a workshop wtf is this my garage is my workshop artisan thing.
asciilifeform: <+mircea_popescu> rentals are exactly that : correctly priced, multi-room hotels. << only for a theorist like mircea_popescu
phf: we've had that conversation before i believe
mircea_popescu: this conversation won't die.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: do you have ANY idea what it would cost to 'rent a workshop' within 3 hrs of drive from here ?
mircea_popescu: nope. but this is just an argument towards "us is fucking nuts". why the fuck should it cost a lot ?
phf: asciilifeform: within 3 hours drive? c'mon. i can find you a workshop within 3 hours drive for less than 500 a month
mircea_popescu: first off, that's the #1 a city wants t osponsor.
asciilifeform: since when does a city sponsor anything sane ?!
asciilifeform: american cities sponsor bum gardens
mircea_popescu: since it is in a place you live in.
asciilifeform: and dope needles
phf: i have friends with workshops in baltimore city, maybe an hour drive from where i am
phf: closer from umd
mircea_popescu: isn't that the bad place ?
asciilifeform: phf: baltimore is mega-cheap
asciilifeform: phf: i used to dream of escaping to it.
mircea_popescu: o wait - turns out alf is actually closer to lafond's dear friends than to the white house ?
mircea_popescu: bwahahahaha
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 11km from whitehouse.
phf: if you have any sort of income, you can go to bmore and play believe mp
asciilifeform: phf: if i had a NON-COMMUTE income
mircea_popescu: phf it also happens to be the right thing to do, other than buying bitbet.
asciilifeform: which i don't.
mircea_popescu: go to baltiomore, start a gang.
asciilifeform: l0l white gang in bmore
mircea_popescu: five years in you'll prolly want to hold a conference. if not 3.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why white ?
asciilifeform: if you have to ask...
phf: i have burner friends with workshops that you literally drive into a fenced off area with barbed wire on top, go inside a heavily reinforced building and work with your 50k equipment in peace
mircea_popescu: if i can talk to anglos, you can talk to niggers.
asciilifeform: i will start black gang after mircea_popescu does and i study his.
mircea_popescu: oh ffs.
mircea_popescu: do you actually believe blacks aren't people or something ?
mircea_popescu: i saw the cunts, still same shade of pink.
asciilifeform: anyway in alls srsness bmore is a glorious place to live imho.
asciilifeform: i tried to get work there, and failed.
asciilifeform: to date.
mircea_popescu: what did you apply to ?
asciilifeform: $firm_that_sells_0days
asciilifeform: and $the_other_firm_that_sells_0days
mircea_popescu: eh, you know enough chemistry to be useful to meth lab.
mircea_popescu: apply to that.
asciilifeform: l0l 'hi i'm totally not a usg stooge though i have no street experience'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is a lulzy fella
mircea_popescu: nobody's born with street experience.
mircea_popescu: also, gangs aren't exactly intellectual strongholds. by and large they survive by not caring, not by fine-tuning their civ playing strat.
asciilifeform: no but the correct brand of anticiv.
asciilifeform: pashtun.
mircea_popescu: not generally.
mircea_popescu: generally it's the very simple "well... here i am".
asciilifeform: anyway i don't touch things where i have no leverage.
mircea_popescu: the same thing that gets most women knocked up that ever carry to term.
asciilifeform: why does mircea_popescu think i could be an ~average~ dope man, much less a heroic one.
mircea_popescu: how exactly is this "no leverage" computed ?
mircea_popescu: you have immense leverage - you're the only one that can make sense of the entire sea of symbols they don't grok.
mircea_popescu: what do you think whiteboy with compuyter habit ends up doing in prison ?
asciilifeform: buggered to death ?
mircea_popescu: helps the bulked up dudes with their appeals.
mircea_popescu: oh gtfo.
mircea_popescu: you have any idea how rare fucking is, in human experience ?
mircea_popescu: stop flattering yourself. nobody's wasting an erectio0n on your sorry ass.
asciilifeform: then perhaps eaten as long pig ?
mircea_popescu: helps the bulked up dudes with their appeals. <
asciilifeform: i have nfi what they do with useless people in american prison
mircea_popescu: you can read. and you can read in such a way as to GUARANTEEDLY never end up in "i dunno man"
mircea_popescu: he can't. he's never met someone who can.
mircea_popescu: leverage ? you got more leverage in baltimore than you do here.
PeterL: <asciilifeform> 11:50 <+mircea_popescu> so what's rent like in the cheap suburbs next to umd ? << i pay ~2k (if you count electric, gas, etc) for <1k sq ft. << my new house is ~1k for 2k sq ft (plus 1k basement, could be used as workshop)
asciilifeform: PeterL: and in zimbabwe, can get even cheaper !
PeterL: in the middle of nice town
trinque: no everything outside DC is africa
trinque: inside DC is also africa
asciilifeform: trinque: i was offered work in other africas (e.g., san francisco)
asciilifeform: but i don't have any reason to prefer them to this africa.
trinque: aw, beating on the left coast folk is a great passtime
trinque: just ask ben_vulpes
asciilifeform: trinque: in fact, it costs 2x moar to live there LIKE A HUMAN (e.g., MOTHERFUCKING HOUSE WITH OWN 4 WALLS) than here and they only offered 1.5x moar.
mircea_popescu: PeterL one place in ro, suburb of supposedly nice town, ran me $2200 per quarter, house on two levels (bout 4k sqft total iirc) + a spot of land, fully furnished. and i mean, natural leather couches and walnut furniture and whatnot.
mircea_popescu: but as he says ... no reason to prefer...
mircea_popescu: other than that, two-girl furnished apt in town ran 3-400 monthly.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dun need living LIKE A NATIVE in ro for anything.
mircea_popescu: hows like a native ?
asciilifeform: well, on ~their~ salary
mircea_popescu: heh. i bet.
mircea_popescu: go work for alcatel, make 600 a mo :D
mircea_popescu: but it is pretty cool living with the natives you know ? girl can pillowtalk tell you about her bf, and how hard he's working for his promotion.
mircea_popescu: which yes, from 600 to 635
trinque: asciilifeform: when I moved to portland I told my employer I would either telecommute or quit.
trinque: it's afaik a common thing in software
asciilifeform: trinque: i tried this in the past, was always told 'go, quit.'
trinque: asciilifeform needs an agent
trinque: :P
mircea_popescu: what is the moral you derive from this experience alf ?
asciilifeform: that i'm not 133337 enough ?
asciilifeform: i dunno, what else.
mircea_popescu: (lemma : the definition of shit job is one where employer says "go, quit.")
mircea_popescu: usually reserved to barristas etc.
asciilifeform: then i've never seen 'non-shit' job and don't expect ever to.
mircea_popescu: almost like a cloud of perpetual brick rain follows you around.
mircea_popescu: even people doing shitty webstack dev HAVE.
trinque: was exactly what I was doing.
trinque: "I made this fucking mess, and fuck you I'm not helping you replace me, so let me telecommute"
mircea_popescu: lol.
mircea_popescu: i just realised we need a backup for deedbot.
trinque: imma publish all the source for the new one
mircea_popescu: next thing he's gonna want to telecomute instead of showing up in irc.
asciilifeform: l0l
trinque: haha
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform for my own peace of mind : have you actually said this ? or just fantasized about saying it ?
asciilifeform: which
asciilifeform: i lost track
mircea_popescu: "i tried this in the past, was always told 'go, quit.'"
asciilifeform is on the spin cycle of the day's stake, when the barbs come out
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i did precisely once, with my last employer. there was much gnashing of teeth, and ill feeling from the other slaves (there were only a handful of us, and no one was actually replaceable)
mircea_popescu: was this a concern ongoing or winding down at the time ?
asciilifeform: the latter.
mircea_popescu: a sole attempt in a drowning boat does not constitute a valid basis for the response you presented.
mircea_popescu: should have made demands before the thing went south.
asciilifeform: i started out largely tele
asciilifeform: but was summoned back in as the shop was in dire straits
asciilifeform: 'we must all grunt on the stake!111 for victory111'
mircea_popescu: lmao
mircea_popescu: you remind me of that joke of the young slut.
asciilifeform: which?
mircea_popescu: "mommy, mommy, i made five dollars!"
mircea_popescu: "how did you do that ?"
mircea_popescu: "this old guy said he'd give me five dollars if i climb up in that tree!"
mircea_popescu: "you slut, you. he only wanted to see your panties."
mircea_popescu: next day
mircea_popescu: "mommy, mommy, i made twenny dollars!"
mircea_popescu: "what now ?"
mircea_popescu: "old guy came by told me he'd give me five if i climb up that tree"
mircea_popescu: "didn't i tell you..."
mircea_popescu: "ha! joke's on him, i took them off first."
asciilifeform: l0l
asciilifeform: my last move was even a switch of profession, i'm no longer a reverser. turned out not to be a smart idea.
asciilifeform: turns out, there were worse things.
phf: what do you do now?
phf: (i mean, by name)
asciilifeform: phf: i was hired originally to (yes) calculate runtimes of gnarly algos
asciilifeform: (why anyone would pay for this is a very long story)
phf: that sounds a like a very respectable, if very narrow specialization
phf: is that pen and paper by hand?
asciilifeform: mostly.
mircea_popescu: then eminently commutable ?
phf: how gnarly? 3sat, tsp heuristic solutions?
phf: or gnarly as in "we wrote this over past 5 years, need to have upper bounds noa!!1"
asciilifeform: gnarly in the sense where the working set is a meg of cpp code.
asciilifeform: written by academics.
phf: ah, the second kind
asciilifeform: doing megatonnes of linear algebra.
asciilifeform: and bignum
mircea_popescu: actually thast should ber the easy part neh ?
mircea_popescu: i'd imagine it's the control structures / branching that's problematic
phf: oh, i grok the "go pound pavement" reason now
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: actually bignum is a nightmare because of algo transitions
mircea_popescu: ah
mircea_popescu: hey, hidden branching!
asciilifeform: (e.g., gmp uses 4+ different mult algos)
phf: academic offshoots treat their engineers the way they do grad students, because the two are usually the same and equally replaceable
asciilifeform: and there was also to be reversing, of juicy things, but turned out that (apparently) i could only be used for it if i agreed to usgrasty
phf: i once interviewed for an interesting problem shop, that was a upenn spinoff of some ph.d. thesis work, results could be immediately applied in oil refinery optimizations
phf: the offer was so ridiculous, i couldn't even consider it. the woman in charge thought she was being generous!
mircea_popescu: clearly the downdraft of "phd work"
mircea_popescu: it's incredible what the grads will take,
mircea_popescu: and given that, it's incredible the females aren't actively pursuing prostitution.
phf: and the shop itself was how i imagine alf shop is, a small group of math/compsci grads doing peanut work under inhumane conditions
asciilifeform: phf: there are much worse conditions!
phf: asciilifeform: there are also much much better conditions
asciilifeform: at least here it's only 2 blokes to a 8x8 cell
asciilifeform: phf: aha, in mircea_popescu's harem
asciilifeform: on dirigible.
phf: you're silly
mircea_popescu: you think ?!
asciilifeform: anyway better conditions exist. for better peoplez.
phf: ok, ~now~ i'm grokking
phf: this is all academia mentality
asciilifeform: i've never done 'honest work' in my whole life, phf .
mircea_popescu: so ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has a spiffy article, about folks 'worth their weight in frozen pork'
mircea_popescu: these are unrelated considerations.
asciilifeform: how so ?
mircea_popescu: do you know any women who've never fucked a black guy in their life ?
asciilifeform: 100%
mircea_popescu: how would this circumstance influence their capacity to in the future conceive a baby with their putative black lover ?
asciilifeform: count me as thick, i dun see the connection.
mircea_popescu: me either. because there isn't one.
asciilifeform: obviously i will make passable pork when finally processed.
mircea_popescu: cunt works. you don't have to keep priming it with all sorts of cocks it could work with
asciilifeform: and ok soap.
mircea_popescu: so as to maintain it's capacity to work with them in the future.
asciilifeform: and perhaps a reasonable set of lampshades.
mircea_popescu: so : whether cunt works or not is a separate and distinct consideration from whether cunt ever did it with black cock before.
phf: the mentality here is "i'm fucking all kinds of scum, but at least it's not a black fella"
mircea_popescu: which is why no sterility clinic makes woman fill out formulary, "have you done guy like your present so, in your teens ?"
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> how so ? << answered ?
asciilifeform: well as i gather mircea_popescu's answer was 'you could start doing 17 yo work for shit wage' and i answer 'why the fuck should i a single day earlier than forced to.'
mircea_popescu: i guess we collectivelly just lost the past 5 minutes huh.
asciilifeform: http://www.contravex.com/2016/03/31/cheep-petes-guide-to-not-being-a-poorfag/#comment-42690 << pete_dushenski
asciilifeform: the 'make a budget' and 'don't drink through your whole wage' thing is REASONABLE as 'how to not GO IDIOT BROKE' advice
asciilifeform: but 'how to get rich' ??
phf: buy dirty potato, clean it, sell it, buy two dirty potatoes, clean them, sell them, then your father dies and leaves you the estate
asciilifeform: ^
mircea_popescu: go to baltimore, start gang, keep it cheap, effective and lean. under the pressure of all the other idiots nobody can afford to engage you, too painful bite for the calories contained, in twenty years trade the president his life in exchange for his daughter.
mircea_popescu: sorry folks, there never was nor ever will be another way.
mircea_popescu: review henry teh fifth.
mircea_popescu: "A very attractive couple enters and begins shopping with a basket. She is tall, elegant, and white, not busty enough to pose in playboy, and not thin enough to model clothes. She is beautiful in the very high heels she can barely stand on, doing the dopefiend lean as she is. Her date is a short muscular black man with his pants actually buckled around his waist. They are in their late twenties and he can’t keep his hands o
mircea_popescu: ff of her as she staggers and drools in the aisle. He has a powder blue hat. She carries a finely stitched black leather purse about the size of one of her shoes. They cannot decide who should be pushing the cart. They head back to the women’s room and have sex standing up, between the stall doors and the sink, with the door wide open. She is bent over the sink and he is having a hard time getting his pelvis level with her
mircea_popescu: rather remarkable Caucasian ass. She is spreading her legs to get lower for him. When I pass again coming back from the cooler he has had the decency to push her up against the wall so that she is not exposed to passersby. After their ten minute tryst they shop for another 20 minutes and then leave hand-in-hand."
mircea_popescu: apud lafond. fucking beautiful!
asciilifeform: incidentally where in bmore do you get folks for your gang with >bathwater iq ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you fight the war with the army you get.
asciilifeform: this is why the jail is full of the idiots aha
mircea_popescu: jail is your home.
asciilifeform: 'big zone', 'little zone'
asciilifeform: i am left to wonder, clearly mircea_popescu has a very high opinion of orc scum, why doesn't he recruit ~them~ to write his softs, run his companies, etc. ?
mircea_popescu: you keep making these whole insane jumps. first you went from "cunt works or doesn't work" to "cunt has or hasn't previous experience with black cock". now you went from "you want to not be poor, gotta act like it" to "why is mp not storing cheese in bottles and shoes on hooks".
mircea_popescu: wtf is this
asciilifeform: this in re 'bmore gang' recipe
mircea_popescu: yes.
asciilifeform: i don't even recall mentioning cunt.
mircea_popescu: or cheese or hooks, yes.
asciilifeform: possibly i do not have sufficient lsd to properly do this thread..
mircea_popescu: is lsd like, superman vitamins ?
asciilifeform: aha!
mircea_popescu: if only.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, let us elaborate, not like anything better to do on rainy day.
asciilifeform: 0l holy shit i just read a trilema where mircea_popescu agreed with me?!
asciilifeform: i think i'ma get on my pig and fly around a bit ?
mircea_popescu: part one. you said "i've never done 'honest work' in my whole life, phf." ; and "mircea_popescu has a spiffy article, about folks 'worth their weight in frozen pork'". this equivocates experience with capacity.
mircea_popescu: in the illustration used, the cunt has the CAPACITY to procreate, with whatever man, as a function of whether it works or does not work. if it has the capaqcity to procreate, it will procreate. if it doesn't procreate, it's because IT didn';t work, NOT because the cock was black.
asciilifeform: i have capacity ! worth about 80 kg of pork.
asciilifeform: not grade-a tho.
mircea_popescu: the cunt's experience in fucking whatever penis is not related to this in any sense.
mircea_popescu: more importantly, since you won't let go : what you wish your asshole to be used for and what it is used for are also divorced.
mircea_popescu: infantine equivalencies you propose to the world notwithstanding, as they have no standing.
asciilifeform: well no shit, i will have no say in who eats the pork.
mircea_popescu: moving on.
mircea_popescu: part two. how one proceeds to not be poor is unrelated to what mp does.
mircea_popescu: ~fin~.
asciilifeform: my original point is that it is also not related to pete_dushenski's peculiar cargo cultisms
asciilifeform: (mortification of the flesh, saving pennies, etc.)
mircea_popescu: i think on that we're all agreed
mircea_popescu: possibly pete_dushenski himself as well.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's advice, 'become a pirate!1111' is ~practical and mega-useful~ by comparison !
asciilifeform: i admit that i wonder if pete_dushenski's misconceptions came to him from his ancestors, for whom saving sorta worked.
asciilifeform: (because sound - relatively - money)
PeterL: does saving in bitcoin work? Or not stable enough yet?
asciilifeform: PeterL: ask this after you buy a bunch today, and mircea_popescu drops the nuke in the great phorkwarz of july
mircea_popescu: saving never worked. ☟︎
PeterL: does investing work?
mircea_popescu: efficiency works, in the sense that the more efficient corporation will drive the others out. but this is a business, not a household concern.
asciilifeform: i suspect that 'sound money' is a fantasy
asciilifeform: at least in the mythical sense of 'i put value in and arbitrarily later i get at least this much out NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS'
mircea_popescu: PeterL it works for the group. a society with better investment policies will have more intensive usage of capital and thus drive other societies out
mircea_popescu: it doesn't do much for the individual.
mircea_popescu: investing is, by and large, the capitalist equivalent of honorable in fedualism. the country with more honorable barons had a better footing in war.
mircea_popescu: same headcount of cattle, weirs and lands to distribute as squires, stronger army nevertheless.
asciilifeform: this is why i always had sympathy with the folks who pete_dushenski enjoys feeling superior to.
asciilifeform: because the ONLY THING no one can ever take from you is the icecream you ATE YESTERDAY
asciilifeform: this is basic animal wisdom.
mircea_popescu: (also more intensive use of capital : took 5 swings of the sword before running away, instead of 4. sword-on-battlefield is the eminent capital of feudalism)
asciilifeform: (and yes, eventually it leads to the pork shop)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i understand why you pick example of feudal battlefield, rather than red army, but the latter was actually the state of the art afaik.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the reason "no one can take from you" is because it's been taken already. sorta like nobody can burn water or steal the intelligence of mongoloids.
asciilifeform: in terms of most recent success of 'seppuku honour'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform mostly didn't pick because marginal and not so interesting. what about it ?
asciilifeform: interesting in that it refuted orwell's argument in re how folks renouncing their 'i'm a precious snowzflake!111 individual!' thing and dying with hounour have to buy into supernatural claptral
asciilifeform: *claptrap
asciilifeform: he gnashed his teeth at length about this, recall.
mircea_popescu: but they did buy into supernatural claptrap.
mircea_popescu: what, you think just because xtianity pretended to quarrel with itself, socialism is anything other than catolicism now ?!
mircea_popescu: same stupid shit, from the same roots, by the same people.
pete_dushenski: back!
pete_dushenski: http://www.contravex.com/2016/03/31/cheep-petes-guide-to-not-being-a-poorfag/#comment-42694 << asciilifeform
pete_dushenski: http://trilema.com/2016/outrageous-mps-guide-to-not-being-a-poorfag/#comment-116900 << mircea_popescu
ben_vulpes: april, may, july
ben_vulpes: not a lot of time to get keccak into the hairball.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: whatchawaitinfor ?
asciilifeform: go, get.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: who said anything about waiting
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: not saying you should rent a car and "win" "points", but you recall our earlier discussion of tco ?
ben_vulpes: btw, where is the epic mp asciilifeform thread about tuning the nonce shifting to ensure nodes have a market for their digests?
pete_dushenski: hard to beat $81/mo with another few bucks for leccy.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: how many of these do you have now ?
asciilifeform: i personally have 1 arse
asciilifeform: and so never was tempted to keep >1 auto.
ben_vulpes: i'll take the odd thousand dollar charge over a car lease.
ben_vulpes: mostly because i intend to own the thing for over a decade, and not drive it a whole lot.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: cars ? just two, soon to be whittled back down to 1, but then perhaps back to two.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: does the woman drive ?
pete_dushenski: sure, with own car. three in house atm.
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski's wife's car is not on pete_dushenski's books?
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: what you'll take and what's more economical are different considerations
asciilifeform has ancient and uninteresting auto and will have it for so long as parts can be had for it
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: mnope
ben_vulpes: microelectric shitmobile is economical in the same way that ersatz american cheese is economical
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: for the automologists, mind sharing make, model, and year ?
asciilifeform: 'acura', almost old enough to drive itself, 6 cyl.
asciilifeform: i forget which model exactly
pete_dushenski: 4 door ? tl ?
mircea_popescu: is that a toyota ?
asciilifeform: early 2000s
pete_dushenski: honda
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: a type of honda
mircea_popescu: i thought honda made motorbikes.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they make even chainsaws
pete_dushenski: toyota makes lexus as 'lux brand'
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: snowplows too
asciilifeform: generators!
ben_vulpes: generators!
ben_vulpes: heh
mircea_popescu: hitachi wands ?
mircea_popescu: new from honda : the combination hitachi-tamaguchi
asciilifeform: petrol-powered!
asciilifeform: (or, a diesel diddler!)
ben_vulpes: now /those/ are some good vibrations.
mircea_popescu: im surprised these don't exist, ftr.
ben_vulpes hums
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there ~were~ steam diddlers in 1880s
mircea_popescu: nono, the pet dildo.
asciilifeform: ah
asciilifeform: l0l
asciilifeform: mega-concept
asciilifeform: i almost want to build.
mircea_popescu: gotta ride it or it dies.
mircea_popescu: can develop personality, may end up wanting to fuck your friends etc.
asciilifeform: and if it is unhappy, it burps, sputters
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: how does leased electricmobile that will work hummingly and economically for three years until returned to mothership compare to plastic food that becomes part of one's body ?
asciilifeform: dildogocchi!
mircea_popescu: this is really not a bad idea
pete_dushenski: should be in every elementary shcool
mircea_popescu: can make $$$ out of attachables, too, apple style.
mircea_popescu: nipple clamps, you name it.
ben_vulpes: 'tis an ersatz auto
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: you ever buy that suv btw ?
mircea_popescu: "I’m over six miles from the city line, among townhomes that go for 400K, walking through a park that is a slice of solitude during the day and a gauntlet at night; a park where I have seen two gangs parley in a formal manner as I pretended to be some homeless slob on the next bench, and where, this time last year, I saw a white stoner in his 20s trying to talk his girl into getting into a van full of black guys as she crie
mircea_popescu: d and gasped."
mircea_popescu: ima end up moving to baltimore for reals. ☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: this guy sure knows how to entice.
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: mhm
asciilifeform: bmore is valhalla, at least in american terms
asciilifeform: i enjoy taking day trips there
asciilifeform: the sea even stinks correctly, per my lights
asciilifeform: the fauna, strangely, never bothered me.
mircea_popescu: eh the fear is always overstated.
mircea_popescu: maidenly tremors.
asciilifeform: srsly they never even so much as said a rude word.
mircea_popescu: aqnd yet you are convinced you'll get buttloved in prison.
asciilifeform: prolly just bored to death.
mircea_popescu: or maybe bored to new life!
asciilifeform: (perhaps i am already in prison?)
asciilifeform: l0l we just had a man publicly quit in disgust
ben_vulpes: lol over what?
asciilifeform: pay.
mircea_popescu: how much was he making ?
asciilifeform: i have nfi!
asciilifeform: but i dun think anyone, even janitor, taks home less than 6fig usa
mircea_popescu: heh. guy won't even share what he's making when quitting in disgust. teh bars run deep.
asciilifeform: fella thought, as they often do, that 'deserved moar!1111'
mircea_popescu: "The NEWS will depict this violence as a protest gone out of control. However, as of 11:00 a.m. black female cashiers at the Shoppers supermarket at Mondawmin mall knew through social media that riots were being planned by high school students—an attack from students at one school [Frederick Douglas high School] on the very shopping center their parent's patronized." << this actuallyt is very illustrative of the whole "spyi
mircea_popescu: ng/datamining" thing.
asciilifeform: now he can have fun, likely, incinerating his savings while looking for shop that pays his old wage.
mircea_popescu: usg would like to know as much as black min wage workers ; but it can't ask them
mircea_popescu: why can't it ask them ? ha! because it's made up of pasty white boys. it can't ask them for the same reasonh the pasty ass white boys individually can't ask the cashiers for a blowjob.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there are entire office bldgs where they do nothing but hear out stoolies of all colours
asciilifeform: usg ~knows~ but it is impolitic to ~do~ anything.
mircea_popescu: so ?
mircea_popescu: knows my foot.
asciilifeform: what would it have done differently, in mircea_popescu's view, if it knew ?
mircea_popescu: what, there's a relation between knowledge and action now ?
mircea_popescu: what'd you do differently if you knew what ?
asciilifeform: let's rephrase, how did mircea_popescu become convinced that usg did ~not know~ ?
mircea_popescu: by its attempts to find out.
asciilifeform: ~all of which~ he is privy to ??
mircea_popescu: looky : there's many kinds of know. couple lives across the hall from you. you "know" they're probably fucking now and again. this is very different from teenager spying through door cracks to catch glimpses.
mircea_popescu: which latter category the whole "datamining/surveillance" crap is all about.
mircea_popescu: the white people like it because it certifies their interesting-ness, just like a neglected housewife is flattered by the attention of pubescent makes. the government engages in the behaviour because it is a pubescent male. win-win as they say.
pete_dushenski: http://trilema.com/2016/outrageous-mps-guide-to-not-being-a-poorfag/#comment-116902 << mircea_popescu
pete_dushenski: bbl
phf: so a grep through an entire log takes 1.5s (testing with grep lsd), same thing done in a log thingy takes 3s
phf: anyone remember that article about grep doing some weird tricks to speed itself up?
mircea_popescu: aha!
mircea_popescu: specifically "selling out the general case to favour the common case"
phf: oddest things using #'= in a search across numeric vectors instead of #'eql slows things down by 1.3 seconds...
mircea_popescu: sounds like poorly implemented whatever, lisp ?
phf: yeah..
mircea_popescu: i tell you : store the thing as trees.
mircea_popescu: waste the ram, save the cpu.
phf: but that means some tokenization algo, which presumably breaks ascii's "want search like grep!!!1" requirement
mircea_popescu: tokenize by space
mircea_popescu: if he doesn't like space as a tokenizer he has other issues.
phf: yeah, that's what i'm thinking, and then things like $#434 will just have whatever own buckets that they want
mircea_popescu: specifically, $-#-4-3-4 and you found it 5 nodes down.
mircea_popescu: this is the golden means between the abaccus of filling the log with #twitter #dumb #shit and the insanity of string-searching gb of material each pageload.
mircea_popescu: like it or not, we, or at least i, actually DO tokenize by space.
mircea_popescu: phf how much is the actual log incidentally ? i see well over 600mb here.
phf: So kako's dump which is only id;timestamp;nick;message adds up to ~~150mb
phf: I think joins and quits add a lot of extra noise
phf: Room on a running cmu instance gives 168mb. Peanuts
PeterL: how many gigabits of ram you working with?
phf: My assumption is always +inf but I like to keep heap minimal out of sportsmanship
phf: (Erm `room' on a lisp says how much you're using rather than how much is left)
jurov: deedbot-: http://explo.yt/public/fmpif_201603.txt.asc
deedbot-: accepted: 1
jurov: deedbot-: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/attachments/20160401/attachment.txt?sha1=c2d703eeb8d0553a3e66e2a981b99efe2f94b155
deedbot-: accepted: 1
asciilifeform: 'It is improper. Enumerations must always be made of items of the same kind. It's not enough that the items answer to the same purpose. They must actually be of the same kind.' << aaaaand this is how we learned that mircea_popescu , under the cover of darkness, programs! in ada !1111
shinohai: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-virginia-cia-explosives-idUSKCN0WY59U <<< cia goes rogerkver
asciilifeform: in other nyooz, http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-cyber-reddit-idUSKCN0WX2YF
asciilifeform: 'Social networking forum reddit on Thursday removed a section from its site used to tacitly inform users it had never received a certain type of U.S. government surveillance request, suggesting the platform is now being asked to hand over customer data under a secretive law enforcement authority.'
asciilifeform: what is there even to surveil on reddit.
asciilifeform: whole thing is public, like city sewer.
asciilifeform: afaik.
danielpbarron: ben_vulpes> btw, where is the epic mp asciilifeform thread about tuning the nonce shifting << http://danielpbarron.com/2016/the-new-bitcoin/
danielpbarron: mircea_popescu, http://trilema.com/2016/outrageous-mps-guide-to-not-being-a-poorfag/#selection-99.36-99.46 << but it any case / but ~in~ any case ?
asciilifeform: ^ notably i was not involved with this iirc.
trinque: asciilifeform: there are direct messages on reddit
trinque: prolly those
trinque: and 1337 terrorists in private subreddits
danielpbarron: and ip addresses
asciilifeform: l0l
asciilifeform: prolly danielpbarron has it
danielpbarron: there are 'dark market' 'subreddits'
asciilifeform: not to mention, gotta plant flash 0days in selected folks' reddit hose
asciilifeform: though i have nfi why this needs to happen with cooperation of reddit per se
asciilifeform: they could as easily do it on isp end.
danielpbarron: i recall the original silk road had it's own .onion web forum, but i guess this was too hard for the kids who showed up after it was cool
trinque: asciilifeform: smells like a general trend of making companies get used to acting as part of law enforcement
asciilifeform: yeah but why reddit, vs isp.
asciilifeform: thin end of the funnel.
trinque: already has isp
trinque: why not reddit too
asciilifeform: sure.
danielpbarron: and general trend of "oh ~now~ reddit plays ball with USG (implication that it hadn't been already)"
trinque: outsource as much "law enforcement" as possible
trinque: danielpbarron: yup, apple, google et al
phf: when's gabriel_laddel going to join us
PeterL: just outsource law enforcement all the way and make it illegal for people to break the laws!
asciilifeform: win.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2016/outrageous-mps-guide-to-not-being-a-poorfag/#comment-116904
phf: from the world of lisp rot, asdf, the `make' of common lisp, has been gaining features for a while now to the point that it contains all kinds of crazy shit, like a fullblown cross-lisp compatibility layer for various file operations, etc. so i pulled version 1.369, last one before faré took over the operations, it is 75kb vs current 560k (which is itself packed from a large repo). not surprisingly it works, but when it doesn't it exposes cockroa
phf: ches in the walls. dodgy/clever hacks, "modern ecosystem" "improvements", etc. etc.
asciilifeform: 'quicklisp' sorta workx
phf: quicklisp depends on asdf, in fact hard depends on asdf3. it takes exactly three places to patch it to support 1.369 and it continues working
asciilifeform: it does.
phf: i mean, 75kb or readable lisp vs. 560kb or crazy "with-upgradability" macros that break cross-referencing, etc.
asciilifeform: and so i marvel that it worx.
phf: ah ah
asciilifeform: but increasingly i am convinced of mircea_popescu's point, 'ecosystem' of cockroaches is worse than none
asciilifeform: which is one of the resons thinking folk so often succumb to the temptation of 'let's make a lang'
phf: i'd read it to figure out what the "improvements" are, but i can't, because the new code is ~insane~
asciilifeform: but roaches show up as quickly as they come to a newly-built block of flats in nyc
pete_dushenski: in other dirigible news, http://archive.is/eB7Yn
phf: fare had to make "hacking on asdf" videos just to get people to read the damn thing
pete_dushenski: "The Local Dirigible Manufacturing requirement is expected to kickstart a nascent aerospace industry in Alberta, furthering government’s effort to diversify the economy. " << kek
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: this is hilarious
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: consider, a litre of hydrogen lifts ~1 gram.
asciilifeform: helium - less.
pete_dushenski: hehe
PeterL: use atomic instead of molecular hydrogen - half the mass, so lifts twice as much!
asciilifeform: l0l!!
asciilifeform: let's go straight to davinci's vacuum balloon .
PeterL: but nature abhors a vacuum, would be like inciting the wrath of God
PeterL: what if you heat the hydrogen?
asciilifeform: heat, heat !
PeterL: mix dirigible and hot air baloon into one sweet machine!
phf: http://www.google.com/patents/US20060038062
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://imgur.com/a/aKIww
gribble: The operation succeeded.
jurov: phf you're really saying 2x slowdown factor of lisp vs. C is bad and should be further optimized?
trinque: phf: hey how do you deploy a lisp thing?
trinque: I might just ship new deedbot with swank attached
phf: jurov: i can often get slightly better performance out of cmucl than out of c on critical paths, so that was purely algorithmic question under the assumption that i can easily get within same ballpark with the right algo
phf: trinque: rsync, tmux, asdf, really nothing smarter than that ☟︎
asciilifeform: phf: remind me again why cmucl and not sbcl
phf: swank is pretty useless on prod, unless you jump through all hoops ahead of time and get it to a casual state. you want ssh files to work and trump is still slow for that, so you have to do fusefs
trinque: yes but what about dumber !1!11
asciilifeform: does cmucl even support ACTUAL threads yet
phf: trinque: so just deploy the way you would normally deploy and write a simple set of operator commands (or even a menu driven thing) for repl, that you can control things over. "press 1 to asdf reload :FOO package, press 2 to reinitilize data, etc."
jurov: phf, as a lisp newbie i wondered why asdf is so consistently tagged "obsolete" everywhere
phf: i played with swank on live webserver setup (back when marco's UnCommonWeb was a thing) and quickly gave up on it, when i was hit with a bug that 100+ people triggered
pete_dushenski: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2016/04/leaked-volkswagen-sends-ecoplus-diesel-fix-to-customer/
pete_dushenski: "Drivers may notice a decrease in fuel efficiency of between 5 and 32 percent, depending on climate, engine model year, and driving habits. Some drivers may also notice a decrease in power under certain conditions, such as full-throttle driving or highway operation. In some tests, the power rating of the VW TDI engine was affected by as much as 26 percent during full-throttle operation in cold climates. Finally, the increas
pete_dushenski: ty cycle brought on by changes in engine programming may significantly reduce the time between major services for TDI engines coupled to a manual transmission." << /me falls off chair
phf: the whole swank debug on error thing is just not as good as Squeak/smalltalk
trinque: hm, could also use unix signals for reload and whatever else maybe
pete_dushenski called out the fact that "fixed veedubs" will be worth ~more~ than their unneutered counterparts on the used market. this confirms it.
phf: pretty much all lisps are picky about signals
trinque: for now I'll just turd out a save-lisp-and-die and go from there
jurov: and i wondered whether it's me or swan is really so cranky
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: april1?
phf: slad is brittle unless you have identical lisps (version/os) on dev machine and server
phf: i don't on account of mac/linux
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: lololol. i've been mega-had
phf: also proper slad should be smart about resource handling on fork, like sockets. i think this is all somehow handled by the vm, but you still want to explore it
phf: really, asdf lets you do "load all my source" quite trivially as long as you packed it into a package ahead of time
phf: jurov: i've not seen where asdf is deprecated, you looking at this guy https://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/?
phf: jurov: also i agree as far as swank being piece of shit, it's just that it supports a certain development style that you can't get anywhere else, except smalltalk
jurov: http://cliki.net/asdf "Do NOT use asdf-install anymore, for it is both obsolete and unmaintained."
phf: ah, "asdf-install" is an old really hacky way of install lisp packages, that would pull things from cliki.net. it was very broken
pete_dushenski: bbl. apologies for fool's day spam.
jurov: and "(obsolete)" markers at many places like http://www.cliki.net/s-xml
phf: so you generally have two problems, one is "how do i group together multiple source code files in order to indicate they are part of same codebase", second is "how do i indicate dependency of this codebase on this other codebase" and third is "how do i autodownload things from internet"
asciilifeform: phf: does this remind you of anything ?
phf: two problems, fear, surprise and a most ruthless
asciilifeform: if only tmsr had a thing that solves all 3... l0l
asciilifeform: i seem to recall..
phf: jurov: so asdf solves first two, asdf-install used to solve third one, now superseded by quicklisp
phf: asciilifeform: to be fair v doesn't solve third one
asciilifeform: the third one is not a problem !
asciilifeform: it is solved by ~not doing it~
asciilifeform: 'how do i remove the alligator from my bath'
phf: woo
phf: boyer-mooring brought it down to 0.34s
asciilifeform: neato
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell PeterL haven't read ramsey, no.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell ben_vulpes it may well be that i hail from narnia, but yes, interest rates and house prices are inversely correlated. furthermore, and i forget sometimes that americans lock in rates for entire mortgages, but canadians typically renegotiate their rates every 5 years. longer terms are available, but it's been +ev to take shorter terms for so long that i don't know of a single homeowner who doesn't do 5-year term
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: being the pig is also +ev until christmas.
BingoBoingo: <phf> proper way to deal with iowa is buy a house, get your 800$/mo satellite internet (not even checking what's available, why bother), and do your aerospace/banking/medical it consulting work remote << In Iowa you can probably get fiber internet unless you conciously decide to farm or hermit
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo, phf: ever actually connect over satellite ? the lag is atrocious
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: with 10-year MAX for mortgage rates in canada, even if amortization is 30 years, it's be a pig, buy house for cash, or rent.
asciilifeform: and forget about 'all you can eat' bandwidth
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Which is why I suggest if choosing Iowa choose fiber internet. No Verizon needed.
pete_dushenski: " With only 7% of Canadians having mortgage terms between six and 10 years, long terms are not a popular choice in Canada. They are even less popular amongst younger age groups at only 3% uptake in ages 18-34."
phf: good for mp internet, lynx, batch email u/d, git pull/push. basically all you need to do work (all i need anyway)
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if you can do iowa, you can do timisoara, no ?
pete_dushenski: it's no wonder everyone is screaming "canada has a housing bubble"
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Only people I know from timisoara left there.
pete_dushenski: phf: you forgot tumblr gifpr0n
asciilifeform: hell, if you can do remote, why even live on land and pay rent like an idiot. live on a motherfucking ship. ☟︎
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: how many you know in iowa ?
phf: boat living is kind of rough
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: piracy is, after all, easier than bagging a lunch
shinohai buys a boat and starts a bitcoin privateer business with pete_dushenski
asciilifeform: phf: if i could choose between rent and seasickness, i would choose the latter.
pete_dushenski: shinohai: we'll be consultants! like dogbert's bit wherein he sells $1k books on how to become a millionaire. inside book it suggests "sell 1k books for $1k!"
phf: in other news, http://glyf.org/tmp/lsd.png
pete_dushenski: www.k-international.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/dogbert-consultants.jpg << from same series
pete_dushenski: http://www.k-international.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/dogbert-consultants.jpg
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: 5, but my dick has been inside 1 of them so 20% interesting rate.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> ideally, they go in the form of renting time from a workshop wtf is this my garage is my workshop artisan thing. << Arises from the idea that public tools are icky
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: incidentally you can't actually rent time ~in someone else's~ workshop in usa - liability!1111
phf: asciilifeform: grep search, so lsd matches rtlsdr or "woulsdn't" http://glyf.org/tmp/lsd.png AS REQUESTED
asciilifeform: what one ~can~ do is participate in 'hackspaces' but i tried it and it sucked
asciilifeform: i dun wanna talk to people.
pete_dushenski: https://calvy.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/89034-strip.gif << relatedly, stan as dogbert
asciilifeform: when i'm trying to tool
asciilifeform: phf: neato
asciilifeform: phf: toggleable whitespace word boundaries would be useful but i argue that if we can only have one thing, we oughta have the thing you linked to.
asciilifeform: ideally i oughta be able to search for " lsd " tho.
asciilifeform: AS IN GREP
phf: that doesn't match bol and eol of course
phf: http://glyf.org/tmp/more-lsd.png
asciilifeform: sure.
asciilifeform: neato
phf: it's also not as useful for freeform searching like
phf: assbot: 1 results for 'meth lsd lisp' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=meth+lsd+lisp
phf: which returns 29-08-2015 14:14:55 <mircea_popescu> maybe you're right, and it's incidentals. or maybe lisp to the young mind is like meth-lsd
pete_dushenski: http://www.cpsc.gov/en/Recalls/2016/Toshiba-Recalls-Laptop-Computer-Battery-Packs/ << pre-fools nooz
phf: should probably call this search grep, and have that as first thing, eventually to be replaced by proper search-a-tron
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: what's the exciting part? this happens allt he fucking time
phf: the one where people can tokenize and write queries and shit
phf: replaced/augmented
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: oh ?
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: li battery recalls are a snore
phf: a side effect of all things being interconnected, http://glyf.org/tmp/all-one.png searching for bitcoind includes annotations, which in this case take you to correct follow ups
trinque: damn that's cool
trinque: nicely done
asciilifeform: very spiffy
asciilifeform: when can we use1111
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: nevermind that the tools in 'hackerspaces' are invariably so completely out of true as to be useless
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell pete_dushenski interesting! so one can either borrow at a low rate and expect no return, or borrow at a high rate and pray for a return?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
deedbot-: [Ossasepia] The Coolest Guide to Coolness, Riches, Ginger and Spice - http://www.dianacoman.com/2016/04/02/the-coolest-guide-to-coolness-riches-ginger-and-spice/
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: I class that under "icky"
mircea_popescu: onoes, lengthy log
mircea_popescu: is there website yet ? ?? ????!
mircea_popescu: phf> So kako's dump which is only id;timestamp;nick;message adds up to ~~150mb <<< when does this start ?
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron aha!
mircea_popescu: PeterL> mix dirigible and hot air baloon into one sweet machine! << self heating, and also propelling!
mircea_popescu: phf> so you generally have two problems, one is "how do i group together multiple source code files in order to indicate they are part of same codebase", second is "how do i indicate dependency of this codebase on this other codebase" and third is "how do i autodownload things from internet" <<< all of which are really "how do i install v"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> pete_dushenski: being the pig is also +ev until christmas. << he has a point. "renegotiable" when your side of the negotiation is pack it and leave and their side is "take it or leave it" is insanity on a stick.
mircea_popescu: phf> it's also not as useful for freeform searching like << why not ? reunion!
mircea_popescu: diana_coman "Ha, wouldn’t you say that’s how it happens really?" << hey what's this mean ?
diana_coman: don't millionaires really get there by reading guides?
diana_coman: no?
diana_coman: as in my pretty picture?
diana_coman: and doing all the exercises in the guides, ofc, not "just reading"
mircea_popescu: i read it like 3 times still dun know which one are you saying
mircea_popescu: you saying they are or you saying they aren't ?
diana_coman: heh, was I having so much fun that it's unclear whether I am serious or having fun? lolz
diana_coman: hmm, let me try to make it clearer maybe
diana_coman: 2 min
mircea_popescu: "At the very least, they need to do what they can do, as it were" << but this is not ~specific~.
diana_coman: nope, nor can it be; my observation for what it's worth is that people interact with reality at different levels basically, as they can
mircea_popescu: quite.
diana_coman: it's not a matter of doing X or Y, but rather HOW one does X or Y
mircea_popescu: well no. it's a matter of being what they are. hence the ancient "you can't just power cycle a box with no idea of what you are doing".
mircea_popescu: the same exact action, in the hand of the idiot is an idiocy ; and in the hand of the millionare, millionarcy. hence the ancient "there's no such thing as your idea" thread
diana_coman: hm: a. people change who they are all the time really (think dementia for a clear example, not that all are through illness or that radical)
diana_coman: and b. this thing is quite circular as you say it or as I read what you say
diana_coman: so I don't quite see the point to expressing circles (other than they are satisfying)
mircea_popescu: this "people change" thing is very dubious.
mircea_popescu: people turn to shit as they age, and that's all.
mircea_popescu: some quicker than others.
diana_coman: except some actually improve as they age