ben_vulpes: how is car renting not a poorfag thing?!
ben_vulpes: "hi i would like to pay interest on the loan for this car and also the one that you'll replace it with."
ben_vulpes: but not for "showing up for events" but for "showing up for the commute"
ben_vulpes: the same kind of people who lease cars!
ben_vulpes: iono man when i want to show up at a party in a stupidly expensive car for fun, i rent something ludicrous not a fucking ford
ben_vulpes: "holy shit is that your daily driver?!"
ben_vulpes: "no dood i rented it for laffs for tonight."
ben_vulpes: farm equipment is entirely allowed on the highway here, mostly because...we have farms.
ben_vulpes: oh well in that case just budget 2 hours to drive it
BingoBoingo: show up with sprayer. park safely over some other dude's car
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski used to, at any rate. ain't no 1990s anymore.
mircea_popescu: the notion that anyone'd buy ireland bonds... srsly ? shit country ever since 1016 ad.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: what kind of lunatic << you don't understand cubical culture.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes> or have it delivered up the street << i have a friend who many years ago showed up in antique steamroller.
mircea_popescu: not QUITE actually steam powered ; not far off either.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform exactly as described : had it delivered up the block around corner.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Not in the same way as Gavin.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Gavin is General Motors goon whereas you are more... Toyota
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Two very different kinds of wagery there
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform these people aren't worth covered parking.
mircea_popescu: heck, it's a toss-up whether they even get to park in the parking lot.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I dunno how to save it. You way be too coastal and insufficiently rust belt.
mircea_popescu: how easy this guy has it you know, he declares everything under him = 0, then never has to be confronted with a "hey, change places".
mircea_popescu: gotta park on the street, by the meter. no space in parking lot. and no garage.
mircea_popescu: well cuz they make minwage+1 / 2 and own two button down shirts.
mircea_popescu: he certainly knows of this thing you can't even conceive.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Gavin gets to lease a car, because he's got that Union job at the mill. PAID LUNCH!
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: It's what the MIT/General Motors working set does. They've bought in on the mythos.
mircea_popescu: according to the data available, cow has best life. mkay!
mircea_popescu: where "cow" "farm" and "india" mean things i didn't even dream, but constructed tendentiously and ex post facto.
mircea_popescu: looky, there's nothing wrong with your hollywood inclination. it's, from what i hear, inescapable in first generation americans. nevertheless, it is not factual.
mircea_popescu: i bet you've not as much as looked at the schmuck's cv or anything ? just sat on ass and journalised ?
mircea_popescu: o i c. your arse is also solvent, which is more than can be said for him.
BingoBoingo: I haven't checked this. mircea_popescu do you know off hand if the Amherst city council position he holds has a stipend?
BingoBoingo: Around here even the tiniest towns do 1-3 kilodollars per anum
mircea_popescu: " At the October Meeting, Board members voted to award a gift membership to Gavin Andresen for his exceptional service working with our Bulletin Editor, Rebecca Fricke, on the League’s recently redesigned website, www.lwvamherst.org ." << i guess he gets 20 bucks in gift certs or somesuch.
mike_c: hey phf - I heard you might be working on a log for this chan. is that true?
mike_c: ah, cool. the more logs the merrier.
phf: i should have it working over the weekend
mike_c: oh, interesting. so if x or y evaluates y regardless of x?
phf: this is totally own dogfood, so bon appetite, but since the log is missing entirely, this will at least get people through until there's something more permanent
mike_c: most importantly, the content is there.
phf: the nick thingy does highlight by your nick, which is handy if you're trying to find mentions or conversations that you had
mike_c: yeah. it's interesting. ctrl-f works too though
phf: yeah, it's for rapid skimming on iphone :]
phf: there's also back=numberofdays which loads backlog of numberofdays days
phf: back=1 would be today and yesterday est, etc.
mike_c: ah. that is definitely useful
phf: new version for public consumption has nav menu, etc.
phf: also it doesn't re-parse txt files from file system on each page hit...
phf: in other words i'll be surprised if it's still running when i wake up tomorrow
mike_c: lol. well I'll be sure to finish reading it before I reload the page :)
mircea_popescu: why not just make 1 day = 1 page liek sane people srsly.
mike_c: <+phf> this is totally own dogfood, so bon appetite, but since the log is missing entirely, this will at least get people through until there's something more permanent
mike_c: obviously he reads it on his phone, so it probably does fill his screen.
ben_vulpes: i grow convinced that wherever pete_dushenski hails from is even weirder than asciilifeform's big gulag
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: this interest rate claim: are you implying that house prices go up when interest rates go down, ergo the house won't appreciate if you buy when rates are low and so don't?
ben_vulpes: 1% interest on checking or savings accounts oh my sides
ben_vulpes: (and where is the "lease don't buy your car!1" tip?)
mircea_popescu: pete_dushenski mixing things like "make a budget" and "pack a lunch / brew your own coffee" seems improper.
PeterL: save even more money, brew your own beer!
danielpbarron: pretty sure it costs more to make beer than to buy it; my brother does that and it's a whole lot of work for not a lot of beer
PeterL: pete_dushenski have you ever read the book "the total money makeover" by Dave Ramsey? I recommend the book, makes mostly similar points to your post
PeterL: danielpbarron I guess it depends on how you do it, I never did beer, but I made mead, and it was much cheaper than buying an equivalent volume, about an hour of work and a few weeks of waiting
PeterL: ben_vulpes> 1% interest on checking or savings accounts oh my sides << at my local credit union you can get 2% interest with a 5 year certificate, does not keep up with inflation but its better than no interest
PeterL: but yeah, a "savings account" gets 0.1% APY
shinohai makes a few bottles of wine every fall
shinohai: I have elderberries and blueberries.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo hey do you recall the lafond article where he describes some woman taking a cab to escape urban race war and some dudes trying to flag it down to rape her ?
phf: going to harm city tonight, after lafond articles fully expect packs of roaming black urban youths terrorizing solitary whites all over the place
mircea_popescu: god damned it. so half hour's research has produced not the article i was looking for, and the knowledge that decimation actually introduced lafond to the chan.
phf: lafond's long been part of collective tmsr unconscious thanks to BingoBoingo
phf: huh, well then. i somehow though people were reading him before the riots
phf actually remembers that very log entry
mircea_popescu: first i found, mebbe i'm missing something, but no i dun recall him being discussed prior.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: i was actually trying to figure out what that interest rate point /was/
mircea_popescu: in other morning lulz : argentinian owner of a rental wants to get together to discuss changing rental contract because "inflation has gone up".
mircea_popescu: this is a derp who wanted contract in dollars to protect self from inflation, got choice of X in pesos or y in dollars, picked y.
mircea_popescu: ah, what you don't know is that there's but different zoos.
mircea_popescu: anywya, it was lulzy, guy wanted 12k pesos ; i offered 750 usd which he took - at the time ~6 mo ago it came to about 11k pesos on the black market and it looked like it will imminently will cross 12 13 15 etc.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, dollar liberalized so it's not going up ; prices soared because they're poor and pretentious.
phf: btw how does voice work here exactly? a whitelist?
mircea_popescu: but yes, rents are utterly outrageous, everything's gotta come down 2x-3x for sanity.
mircea_popescu: normal apt thing. two baths two bedrooms, kitchen, living room, appliances including ac.
mircea_popescu: anyway, it's pretty ridiculous, ro/pl/etc rents are about half that, and that's in the eu.
mircea_popescu: no idea wtf is wrong with this particular thirld world nation, but w/e.
mircea_popescu: (actually i do have a pretty good idea - they all live off the govt which is here so much like lice they crowd around)
mircea_popescu: ba is larger than ny. yet another place the us doesn't actually matter all that much.
mircea_popescu: yeah. you know what they do all day ? bitch importantly about how the bus fare went up a quarter peso.
phf: asciilifeform: this is not a particularly interesting exercise, because rent in DC is significantly above what you could be paying anywhere else in the country (except usual suspects, nyc and sf)
mircea_popescu: phf and for the same reason as here : us lives off govt dole, so the lice crowd the capitla.
phf: right, there are no other redeeming qualities or reasons for why rent in dc should be this high
mircea_popescu: moreover, you can readily add wi/mn/whatever to the ro/pl/etc list.
phf: uber drivers "mang you pay 1500 for yo plaaaas, should move to upper spring heights mang [20 minutes driving from metro, 10 minutes driving from any semblance of food] pay seven hundraaaayd. is cheap!"
mircea_popescu: i guess you have a solid point there - ba is an oldstyle city, eateries on every corner, etc. good reason for rent to be more than what it can be in industrially produced "suburub".
mircea_popescu: you can't possibly convince me that rents can ever exceed ~half the average per capita income
phf: well, right iowa counter example basically loses you all citiness, and you can get that here too
mircea_popescu: (which is not so terrible, even, considering gdp is like 18k pa)
phf: i know nhi couple who own a house in gaithersburg, which is about 40 minute nhi commute (note nhi itself is 30 minutes outside dc center), it's a magnificent place and they put all the toys from their world travels there, englishmen style.
phf: but there's literally nothing within 20 minute drive, fields, some new suburbia, that's it
mircea_popescu: well... country house has its place. i'm just not old enough to want one.
phf: having grown up with a dacha, i grok country house/city apartments, but that's not even under consideration for most people here, unless they are boomers, who bought ocean property in the 60s for peanuts
phf: asciilifeform: my condolences
mircea_popescu: so what's rent like in the cheap suburbs next to umd ?
phf: proper way to deal with iowa is buy a house, get your 800$/mo satellite internet (not even checking what's available, why bother), and do your aerospace/banking/medical it consulting work remote
mircea_popescu: phf actually internet in midwest way better than on the coasts. usually run by township.
mircea_popescu: confirming the age old observation thart socialism works betterf the smaller it is.
phf: mircea_popescu: hard to get furnished here, i price it out every time, and it's an extra 1k a month almost always
mircea_popescu: that's ridoinculous. 1k buys you the swhit in a coupla months.
phf: that is if you don't lease it yourself from a third party
mircea_popescu: phf such a bizarre place you know, they rent last years' car for 2 bux a day, everyone hauls countertops
phf: mircea_popescu: idea is that furnished apartment is for a salariman on remote assignment, like amtrak and services like that, assumption is can jack up a price as much as you want
mircea_popescu: how about never mind teh purposes, stick to the causes!
phf: it is expensive to live in this country from causes
phf: not that i don't, but my burn rate is significantly higher than a random schmuck
phf: living in a hotel is more expensive still
mircea_popescu: rentals are exactly that : correctly priced, multi-room hotels.
mircea_popescu: ideally, they go in the form of renting time from a workshop wtf is this my garage is my workshop artisan thing.
phf: we've had that conversation before i believe
mircea_popescu: nope. but this is just an argument towards "us is fucking nuts". why the fuck should it cost a lot ?
phf: asciilifeform: within 3 hours drive? c'mon. i can find you a workshop within 3 hours drive for less than 500 a month
phf: i have friends with workshops in baltimore city, maybe an hour drive from where i am
mircea_popescu: o wait - turns out alf is actually closer to lafond's dear friends than to the white house ?
phf: if you have any sort of income, you can go to bmore and play believe mp
mircea_popescu: phf it also happens to be the right thing to do, other than buying bitbet.
mircea_popescu: five years in you'll prolly want to hold a conference. if not 3.
phf: i have burner friends with workshops that you literally drive into a fenced off area with barbed wire on top, go inside a heavily reinforced building and work with your 50k equipment in peace
mircea_popescu: do you actually believe blacks aren't people or something ?
mircea_popescu: eh, you know enough chemistry to be useful to meth lab.
mircea_popescu: also, gangs aren't exactly intellectual strongholds. by and large they survive by not caring, not by fine-tuning their civ playing strat.
mircea_popescu: the same thing that gets most women knocked up that ever carry to term.
mircea_popescu: you have immense leverage - you're the only one that can make sense of the entire sea of symbols they don't grok.
mircea_popescu: what do you think whiteboy with compuyter habit ends up doing in prison ?
mircea_popescu: you have any idea how rare fucking is, in human experience ?
mircea_popescu: stop flattering yourself. nobody's wasting an erectio0n on your sorry ass.
mircea_popescu: you can read. and you can read in such a way as to GUARANTEEDLY never end up in "i dunno man"
mircea_popescu: leverage ? you got more leverage in baltimore than you do here.
PeterL: <asciilifeform> 11:50 <+mircea_popescu> so what's rent like in the cheap suburbs next to umd ? << i pay ~2k (if you count electric, gas, etc) for <1k sq ft. << my new house is ~1k for 2k sq ft (plus 1k basement, could be used as workshop)
PeterL: in the middle of nice town
trinque: no everything outside DC is africa
trinque: aw, beating on the left coast folk is a great passtime
mircea_popescu: PeterL one place in ro, suburb of supposedly nice town, ran me $2200 per quarter, house on two levels (bout 4k sqft total iirc) + a spot of land, fully furnished. and i mean, natural leather couches and walnut furniture and whatnot.
mircea_popescu: other than that, two-girl furnished apt in town ran 3-400 monthly.
mircea_popescu: but it is pretty cool living with the natives you know ? girl can pillowtalk tell you about her bf, and how hard he's working for his promotion.
trinque: asciilifeform: when I moved to portland I told my employer I would either telecommute or quit.
trinque: it's afaik a common thing in software
trinque: asciilifeform needs an agent
mircea_popescu: what is the moral you derive from this experience alf ?
mircea_popescu: (lemma : the definition of shit job is one where employer says "go, quit.")
mircea_popescu: almost like a cloud of perpetual brick rain follows you around.
trinque: was exactly what I was doing.
trinque: "I made this fucking mess, and fuck you I'm not helping you replace me, so let me telecommute"
trinque: imma publish all the source for the new one
mircea_popescu: next thing he's gonna want to telecomute instead of showing up in irc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform for my own peace of mind : have you actually said this ? or just fantasized about saying it ?
mircea_popescu: "i tried this in the past, was always told 'go, quit.'"
mircea_popescu: was this a concern ongoing or winding down at the time ?
mircea_popescu: a sole attempt in a drowning boat does not constitute a valid basis for the response you presented.
mircea_popescu: "this old guy said he'd give me five dollars if i climb up in that tree!"
mircea_popescu: "old guy came by told me he'd give me five if i climb up that tree"
phf: that sounds a like a very respectable, if very narrow specialization
phf: is that pen and paper by hand?
phf: how gnarly? 3sat, tsp heuristic solutions?
phf: or gnarly as in "we wrote this over past 5 years, need to have upper bounds noa!!1"
mircea_popescu: i'd imagine it's the control structures / branching that's problematic
phf: oh, i grok the "go pound pavement" reason now
phf: academic offshoots treat their engineers the way they do grad students, because the two are usually the same and equally replaceable
phf: i once interviewed for an interesting problem shop, that was a upenn spinoff of some ph.d. thesis work, results could be immediately applied in oil refinery optimizations
phf: the offer was so ridiculous, i couldn't even consider it. the woman in charge thought she was being generous!
mircea_popescu: and given that, it's incredible the females aren't actively pursuing prostitution.
phf: and the shop itself was how i imagine alf shop is, a small group of math/compsci grads doing peanut work under inhumane conditions
phf: asciilifeform: there are also much much better conditions
phf: ok, ~now~ i'm grokking
phf: this is all academia mentality
mircea_popescu: do you know any women who've never fucked a black guy in their life ?
mircea_popescu: how would this circumstance influence their capacity to in the future conceive a baby with their putative black lover ?
mircea_popescu: cunt works. you don't have to keep priming it with all sorts of cocks it could work with
mircea_popescu: so as to maintain it's capacity to work with them in the future.
mircea_popescu: so : whether cunt works or not is a separate and distinct consideration from whether cunt ever did it with black cock before.
phf: the mentality here is "i'm fucking all kinds of scum, but at least it's not a black fella"
mircea_popescu: which is why no sterility clinic makes woman fill out formulary, "have you done guy like your present so, in your teens ?"
mircea_popescu: i guess we collectivelly just lost the past 5 minutes huh.
phf: buy dirty potato, clean it, sell it, buy two dirty potatoes, clean them, sell them, then your father dies and leaves you the estate
mircea_popescu: go to baltimore, start gang, keep it cheap, effective and lean. under the pressure of all the other idiots nobody can afford to engage you, too painful bite for the calories contained, in twenty years trade the president his life in exchange for his daughter.
mircea_popescu: sorry folks, there never was nor ever will be another way.
mircea_popescu: "A very attractive couple enters and begins shopping with a basket. She is tall, elegant, and white, not busty enough to pose in playboy, and not thin enough to model clothes. She is beautiful in the very high heels she can barely stand on, doing the dopefiend lean as she is. Her date is a short muscular black man with his pants actually buckled around his waist. They are in their late twenties and he can’t keep his hands o
mircea_popescu: ff of her as she staggers and drools in the aisle. He has a powder blue hat. She carries a finely stitched black leather purse about the size of one of her shoes. They cannot decide who should be pushing the cart. They head back to the women’s room and have sex standing up, between the stall doors and the sink, with the door wide open. She is bent over the sink and he is having a hard time getting his pelvis level with her
mircea_popescu: rather remarkable Caucasian ass. She is spreading her legs to get lower for him. When I pass again coming back from the cooler he has had the decency to push her up against the wall so that she is not exposed to passersby. After their ten minute tryst they shop for another 20 minutes and then leave hand-in-hand."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you fight the war with the army you get.
mircea_popescu: you keep making these whole insane jumps. first you went from "cunt works or doesn't work" to "cunt has or hasn't previous experience with black cock". now you went from "you want to not be poor, gotta act like it" to "why is mp not storing cheese in bottles and shoes on hooks".
mircea_popescu: but anyway, let us elaborate, not like anything better to do on rainy day.
mircea_popescu: part one. you said "i've never done 'honest work' in my whole life, phf." ; and "mircea_popescu has a spiffy article, about folks 'worth their weight in frozen pork'". this equivocates experience with capacity.
mircea_popescu: in the illustration used, the cunt has the CAPACITY to procreate, with whatever man, as a function of whether it works or does not work. if it has the capaqcity to procreate, it will procreate. if it doesn't procreate, it's because IT didn';t work, NOT because the cock was black.
mircea_popescu: the cunt's experience in fucking whatever penis is not related to this in any sense.
mircea_popescu: more importantly, since you won't let go : what you wish your asshole to be used for and what it is used for are also divorced.
mircea_popescu: infantine equivalencies you propose to the world notwithstanding, as they have no standing.
mircea_popescu: part two. how one proceeds to not be poor is unrelated to what mp does.
PeterL: does saving in bitcoin work? Or not stable enough yet?
mircea_popescu: efficiency works, in the sense that the more efficient corporation will drive the others out. but this is a business, not a household concern.
mircea_popescu: PeterL it works for the group. a society with better investment policies will have more intensive usage of capital and thus drive other societies out
mircea_popescu: investing is, by and large, the capitalist equivalent of honorable in fedualism. the country with more honorable barons had a better footing in war.
mircea_popescu: same headcount of cattle, weirs and lands to distribute as squires, stronger army nevertheless.
mircea_popescu: (also more intensive use of capital : took 5 swings of the sword before running away, instead of 4. sword-on-battlefield is the eminent capital of feudalism)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the reason "no one can take from you" is because it's been taken already. sorta like nobody can burn water or steal the intelligence of mongoloids.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform mostly didn't pick because marginal and not so interesting. what about it ?
mircea_popescu: what, you think just because xtianity pretended to quarrel with itself, socialism is anything other than catolicism now ?!
mircea_popescu: same stupid shit, from the same roots, by the same people.
ben_vulpes: not a lot of time to get keccak into the hairball.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: who said anything about waiting
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: not saying you should rent a car and "win" "points", but you recall our earlier discussion of tco ?
ben_vulpes: btw, where is the epic mp asciilifeform thread about tuning the nonce shifting to ensure nodes have a market for their digests?
ben_vulpes: i'll take the odd thousand dollar charge over a car lease.
ben_vulpes: mostly because i intend to own the thing for over a decade, and not drive it a whole lot.
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: cars ? just two, soon to be whittled back down to 1, but then perhaps back to two.
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski's wife's car is not on pete_dushenski's books?
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: what you'll take and what's more economical are different considerations
ben_vulpes: microelectric shitmobile is economical in the same way that ersatz american cheese is economical
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: for the automologists, mind sharing make, model, and year ?
mircea_popescu: can develop personality, may end up wanting to fuck your friends etc.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: how does leased electricmobile that will work hummingly and economically for three years until returned to mothership compare to plastic food that becomes part of one's body ?
mircea_popescu: "I’m over six miles from the city line, among townhomes that go for 400K, walking through a park that is a slice of solitude during the day and a gauntlet at night; a park where I have seen two gangs parley in a formal manner as I pretended to be some homeless slob on the next bench, and where, this time last year, I saw a white stoner in his 20s trying to talk his girl into getting into a van full of black guys as she crie
mircea_popescu: aqnd yet you are convinced you'll get buttloved in prison.
mircea_popescu: heh. guy won't even share what he's making when quitting in disgust. teh bars run deep.
mircea_popescu: "The NEWS will depict this violence as a protest gone out of control. However, as of 11:00 a.m. black female cashiers at the Shoppers supermarket at Mondawmin mall knew through social media that riots were being planned by high school students—an attack from students at one school [Frederick Douglas high School] on the very shopping center their parent's patronized." << this actuallyt is very illustrative of the whole "spyi
mircea_popescu: usg would like to know as much as black min wage workers ; but it can't ask them
mircea_popescu: why can't it ask them ? ha! because it's made up of pasty white boys. it can't ask them for the same reasonh the pasty ass white boys individually can't ask the cashiers for a blowjob.
mircea_popescu: what, there's a relation between knowledge and action now ?
mircea_popescu: looky : there's many kinds of know. couple lives across the hall from you. you "know" they're probably fucking now and again. this is very different from teenager spying through door cracks to catch glimpses.
mircea_popescu: which latter category the whole "datamining/surveillance" crap is all about.
mircea_popescu: the white people like it because it certifies their interesting-ness, just like a neglected housewife is flattered by the attention of pubescent makes. the government engages in the behaviour because it is a pubescent male. win-win as they say.
phf: so a grep through an entire log takes 1.5s (testing with grep lsd), same thing done in a log thingy takes 3s
phf: anyone remember that article about grep doing some weird tricks to speed itself up?
mircea_popescu: specifically "selling out the general case to favour the common case"
phf: oddest things using #'= in a search across numeric vectors instead of #'eql slows things down by 1.3 seconds...
phf: but that means some tokenization algo, which presumably breaks ascii's "want search like grep!!!1" requirement
mircea_popescu: if he doesn't like space as a tokenizer he has other issues.
phf: yeah, that's what i'm thinking, and then things like $#434 will just have whatever own buckets that they want
mircea_popescu: specifically, $-#-4-3-4 and you found it 5 nodes down.
mircea_popescu: this is the golden means between the abaccus of filling the log with #twitter #dumb #shit and the insanity of string-searching gb of material each pageload.
mircea_popescu: like it or not, we, or at least i, actually DO tokenize by space.
mircea_popescu: phf how much is the actual log incidentally ? i see well over 600mb here.
phf: So kako's dump which is only id;timestamp;nick;message adds up to ~~150mb
phf: I think joins and quits add a lot of extra noise
phf: Room on a running cmu instance gives 168mb. Peanuts
PeterL: how many gigabits of ram you working with?
phf: My assumption is always +inf but I like to keep heap minimal out of sportsmanship
phf: (Erm `room' on a lisp says how much you're using rather than how much is left)
trinque: asciilifeform: there are direct messages on reddit
trinque: and 1337 terrorists in private subreddits
danielpbarron: i recall the original silk road had it's own .onion web forum, but i guess this was too hard for the kids who showed up after it was cool
trinque: asciilifeform: smells like a general trend of making companies get used to acting as part of law enforcement
danielpbarron: and general trend of "oh ~now~ reddit plays ball with USG (implication that it hadn't been already)"
trinque: outsource as much "law enforcement" as possible
trinque: danielpbarron: yup, apple, google et al
phf: when's gabriel_laddel going to join us
PeterL: just outsource law enforcement all the way and make it illegal for people to break the laws!
phf: from the world of lisp rot, asdf, the `make' of common lisp, has been gaining features for a while now to the point that it contains all kinds of crazy shit, like a fullblown cross-lisp compatibility layer for various file operations, etc. so i pulled version 1.369, last one before faré took over the operations, it is 75kb vs current 560k (which is itself packed from a large repo). not surprisingly it works, but when it doesn't it exposes cockroa
phf: ches in the walls. dodgy/clever hacks, "modern ecosystem" "improvements", etc. etc.
phf: quicklisp depends on asdf, in fact hard depends on asdf3. it takes exactly three places to patch it to support 1.369 and it continues working
phf: i mean, 75kb or readable lisp vs. 560kb or crazy "with-upgradability" macros that break cross-referencing, etc.
phf: i'd read it to figure out what the "improvements" are, but i can't, because the new code is ~insane~
phf: fare had to make "hacking on asdf" videos just to get people to read the damn thing
pete_dushenski: "The Local Dirigible Manufacturing requirement is expected to kickstart a nascent aerospace industry in Alberta, furthering government’s effort to diversify the economy. " << kek
PeterL: use atomic instead of molecular hydrogen - half the mass, so lifts twice as much!
PeterL: but nature abhors a vacuum, would be like inciting the wrath of God
PeterL: what if you heat the hydrogen?
PeterL: mix dirigible and hot air baloon into one sweet machine!
jurov: phf you're really saying 2x slowdown factor of lisp vs. C is bad and should be further optimized?
trinque: phf: hey how do you deploy a lisp thing?
trinque: I might just ship new deedbot with swank attached
phf: jurov: i can often get slightly better performance out of cmucl than out of c on critical paths, so that was purely algorithmic question under the assumption that i can easily get within same ballpark with the right algo
phf: trinque: rsync, tmux, asdf, really nothing smarter than that
☟︎ phf: swank is pretty useless on prod, unless you jump through all hoops ahead of time and get it to a casual state. you want ssh files to work and trump is still slow for that, so you have to do fusefs
trinque: yes but what about dumber !1!11
phf: trinque: so just deploy the way you would normally deploy and write a simple set of operator commands (or even a menu driven thing) for repl, that you can control things over. "press 1 to asdf reload :FOO package, press 2 to reinitilize data, etc."
jurov: phf, as a lisp newbie i wondered why asdf is so consistently tagged "obsolete" everywhere
phf: i played with swank on live webserver setup (back when marco's UnCommonWeb was a thing) and quickly gave up on it, when i was hit with a bug that 100+ people triggered
pete_dushenski: "Drivers may notice a decrease in fuel efficiency of between 5 and 32 percent, depending on climate, engine model year, and driving habits. Some drivers may also notice a decrease in power under certain conditions, such as full-throttle driving or highway operation. In some tests, the power rating of the VW TDI engine was affected by as much as 26 percent during full-throttle operation in cold climates. Finally, the increas
pete_dushenski: ty cycle brought on by changes in engine programming may significantly reduce the time between major services for TDI engines coupled to a manual transmission." << /me falls off chair
phf: the whole swank debug on error thing is just not as good as Squeak/smalltalk
trinque: hm, could also use unix signals for reload and whatever else maybe
pete_dushenski called out the fact that "fixed veedubs" will be worth ~more~ than their unneutered counterparts on the used market. this confirms it.
phf: pretty much all lisps are picky about signals
trinque: for now I'll just turd out a save-lisp-and-die and go from there
jurov: and i wondered whether it's me or swan is really so cranky
phf: slad is brittle unless you have identical lisps (version/os) on dev machine and server
phf: i don't on account of mac/linux
phf: also proper slad should be smart about resource handling on fork, like sockets. i think this is all somehow handled by the vm, but you still want to explore it
phf: really, asdf lets you do "load all my source" quite trivially as long as you packed it into a package ahead of time
phf: jurov: also i agree as far as swank being piece of shit, it's just that it supports a certain development style that you can't get anywhere else, except smalltalk
phf: ah, "asdf-install" is an old really hacky way of install lisp packages, that would pull things from cliki.net. it was very broken
phf: so you generally have two problems, one is "how do i group together multiple source code files in order to indicate they are part of same codebase", second is "how do i indicate dependency of this codebase on this other codebase" and third is "how do i autodownload things from internet"
phf: two problems, fear, surprise and a most ruthless
phf: jurov: so asdf solves first two, asdf-install used to solve third one, now superseded by quicklisp
phf: asciilifeform: to be fair v doesn't solve third one
phf: boyer-mooring brought it down to 0.34s
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell ben_vulpes it may well be that i hail from narnia, but yes, interest rates and house prices are inversely correlated. furthermore, and i forget sometimes that americans lock in rates for entire mortgages, but canadians typically renegotiate their rates every 5 years. longer terms are available, but it's been +ev to take shorter terms for so long that i don't know of a single homeowner who doesn't do 5-year term
BingoBoingo: <phf> proper way to deal with iowa is buy a house, get your 800$/mo satellite internet (not even checking what's available, why bother), and do your aerospace/banking/medical it consulting work remote << In Iowa you can probably get fiber internet unless you conciously decide to farm or hermit
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: with 10-year MAX for mortgage rates in canada, even if amortization is 30 years, it's be a pig, buy house for cash, or rent.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Which is why I suggest if choosing Iowa choose fiber internet. No Verizon needed.
pete_dushenski: " With only 7% of Canadians having mortgage terms between six and 10 years, long terms are not a popular choice in Canada. They are even less popular amongst younger age groups at only 3% uptake in ages 18-34."
phf: good for mp internet, lynx, batch email u/d, git pull/push. basically all you need to do work (all i need anyway)
pete_dushenski: it's no wonder everyone is screaming "canada has a housing bubble"
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Only people I know from timisoara left there.
phf: boat living is kind of rough
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: piracy is, after all, easier than bagging a lunch
shinohai buys a boat and starts a bitcoin privateer business with pete_dushenski
pete_dushenski: shinohai: we'll be consultants! like dogbert's bit wherein he sells $1k books on how to become a millionaire. inside book it suggests "sell 1k books for $1k!"
pete_dushenski: www.k-international.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/dogbert-consultants.jpg << from same series
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: 5, but my dick has been inside 1 of them so 20% interesting rate.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> ideally, they go in the form of renting time from a workshop wtf is this my garage is my workshop artisan thing. << Arises from the idea that public tools are icky
phf: that doesn't match bol and eol of course
phf: it's also not as useful for freeform searching like
phf: which returns 29-08-2015 14:14:55 <mircea_popescu> maybe you're right, and it's incidentals. or maybe lisp to the young mind is like meth-lsd
phf: should probably call this search grep, and have that as first thing, eventually to be replaced by proper search-a-tron
phf: the one where people can tokenize and write queries and shit
phf: a side effect of all things being interconnected,
http://glyf.org/tmp/all-one.png searching for bitcoind includes annotations, which in this case take you to correct follow ups
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: nevermind that the tools in 'hackerspaces' are invariably so completely out of true as to be useless
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell pete_dushenski interesting! so one can either borrow at a low rate and expect no return, or borrow at a high rate and pray for a return?
mircea_popescu: phf> So kako's dump which is only id;timestamp;nick;message adds up to ~~150mb <<< when does this start ?
mircea_popescu: PeterL> mix dirigible and hot air baloon into one sweet machine! << self heating, and also propelling!
mircea_popescu: phf> so you generally have two problems, one is "how do i group together multiple source code files in order to indicate they are part of same codebase", second is "how do i indicate dependency of this codebase on this other codebase" and third is "how do i autodownload things from internet" <<< all of which are really "how do i install v"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> pete_dushenski: being the pig is also +ev until christmas. << he has a point. "renegotiable" when your side of the negotiation is pack it and leave and their side is "take it or leave it" is insanity on a stick.
mircea_popescu: phf> it's also not as useful for freeform searching like << why not ? reunion!
mircea_popescu: diana_coman "Ha, wouldn’t you say that’s how it happens really?" << hey what's this mean ?
diana_coman: don't millionaires really get there by reading guides?
diana_coman: and doing all the exercises in the guides, ofc, not "just reading"
mircea_popescu: i read it like 3 times still dun know which one are you saying
diana_coman: heh, was I having so much fun that it's unclear whether I am serious or having fun? lolz
mircea_popescu: "At the very least, they need to do what they can do, as it were" << but this is not ~specific~.
diana_coman: nope, nor can it be; my observation for what it's worth is that people interact with reality at different levels basically, as they can
diana_coman: it's not a matter of doing X or Y, but rather HOW one does X or Y
mircea_popescu: well no. it's a matter of being what they are. hence the ancient "you can't just power cycle a box with no idea of what you are doing".
mircea_popescu: the same exact action, in the hand of the idiot is an idiocy ; and in the hand of the millionare, millionarcy. hence the ancient "there's no such thing as your idea" thread
diana_coman: hm: a. people change who they are all the time really (think dementia for a clear example, not that all are through illness or that radical)
diana_coman: and b. this thing is quite circular as you say it or as I read what you say
diana_coman: so I don't quite see the point to expressing circles (other than they are satisfying)