log
485 entries in 0.506s
asciilifeform: this resembles asciilifeform's orig. argument against having to write vtron -- 'just press the fucking patches by hand, lazy people'. but mircea_popescu didn't buy it then, so had to write vtron.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-06-22#1919415 << i must point out, this item imho is orthogonal to the problem of this thrd, a standard 'machine' does not remove the need for proper 'systemwide vtron'-aka-portage-replacement ☝︎
asciilifeform: there is even a (sad, disused, esthlos went to bottom of sea) but last i saw -- working -- cl vtron
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re 'ebuilds', as i understand trinque's angle was/is to organically replace gentoo's ebuild duct tape with vtron
mod6: I used diana_coman's vtron build with the same. Pressed the (yet unverified by lord keccak vpatch bundle that I created in January) keccak tree, made the changes in the makefiles, etc. Have a vpatch.
asciilifeform: where includes working vtron, muslgnat, etc
a111: Logged on 2019-04-25 15:09 asciilifeform: e.g. an auto-installable cuntoo that runs on commonplace irons and includes working gnat, vtron, etc. would save massive amount of work, vs. current situation where 'oh you bought a new box? here's a buncha toothpicks and glue'
asciilifeform: e.g. an auto-installable cuntoo that runs on commonplace irons and includes working gnat, vtron, etc. would save massive amount of work, vs. current situation where 'oh you bought a new box? here's a buncha toothpicks and glue' ☟︎
asciilifeform: ( recall, is why e.g. mod6 wrote ~own~ vtron )
a111: Logged on 2019-04-07 16:04 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907304 << i formerly thought that this was obvious from the docs , but you ~can~ operate on vpatches without a vtron ( they're edible by trad. unix 'patch' util, and you can verify the sigs with anyffin roughly gpg-like , also by hand )
asciilifeform: OriansJ: you may find it interesting that a number of noobs wrote own vtron, rather than bothering to audit the old; the former is generally easier than the latter
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-04-07#1907304 << i formerly thought that this was obvious from the docs , but you ~can~ operate on vpatches without a vtron ( they're edible by trad. unix 'patch' util, and you can verify the sigs with anyffin roughly gpg-like , also by hand ) ☝︎☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: ( even tho it is about the ancient proof of concept vtron, with old-style hashes etc., re the basic mechanics it is still 100% correct )
asciilifeform: pretty sad, imho : esthlos wrote a++ log summaries, a working vtron, possibly other items i cant recall
asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-August/000159.html << 1st vtron
asciilifeform: ( trb vgenesis released slightly ~prior~ to 1st vtron per se, recall )
mircea_popescu: esthlos had a pretty cool vtron if i recall.
asciilifeform: ^ also had a vtron. but then sank to the bottom of the sea, so unmaintained afaik.
asciilifeform: hanbot: other nitpick -- v.py is asciilifeform's orig. demo; v.pl is mod6's vtron
asciilifeform: hanbot: it is also possible to bootstrap any vtron using naked gpg, ancient gnupatch, and bare teeth ( manually check sig and patch -p0 < foo.patch, for ea. )
asciilifeform: mod6: at the risk of sounding like mircea_popescu in earlier thread -- why is this a mega-project ? i reground ffa to keccak in about 10minute (after getting hold of a working keccak-vtron)
asciilifeform: grr, was looking for mircea_popescu's also for vtron file movements, still not found in log
asciilifeform: fwiw i gave orig vtron, 'v.py' , 100. it's on 97 (phf's revision) and when i get around to massaging it, i suppose will be 96, and i dunsee why to touch it again after that..
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: v.py was my orig vtron , as preserved in amber in http://trilema.com/2015/no-such-labs-releases-v-for-victory/
a111: Logged on 2018-12-03 19:31 asciilifeform: spyked: it's the 1st one most folx used, given as it was the first vtron
asciilifeform: spyked: it's the 1st one most folx used, given as it was the first vtron ☟︎
spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-03#1877949 <-- ftr, v.py was the first vtron that I read, and I think it's a great didactic implem (though nowadays esthlos v is imho a good competitor in that field) ☝︎
asciilifeform: lobbes: asciilifeform currently using diana_coman's vtron , worx a+++
asciilifeform: correct vtron duncare whether $string contains .
asciilifeform: and ftr naming convention ( carried on since asciilifeform's original vtron ) is simply that patch is $string.vpatch and sig is $string.vpatch.author.sig .
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: vtron (including phf's , and in fact his esp. well) solves.
asciilifeform intended to release a thing somewhat like it with the orig 2015 vtron, but asciilifeform's wwwtronics was not equal to the task, never made a usable incarnation of item
a111: Logged on 2018-11-14 00:20 mod6: 2) http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1872126 << diana_coman I tried to leave you a note on your blog. But seems that you've based the genesis off of my vtron version 99994K, but there is a newer version: http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/V-20180222.tar.gz http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/V-20180222.tar.gz.mod6.sig Which is denoted as version 99993K.
mod6: ah yeah (0x05), it is a significant change from all previous releases of my vtron.
mod6: 2) http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1872126 << diana_coman I tried to leave you a note on your blog. But seems that you've based the genesis off of my vtron version 99994K, but there is a newer version: http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/V-20180222.tar.gz http://thebitcoin.foundation/v/V-20180222.tar.gz.mod6.sig Which is denoted as version 99993K. ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-11-13 21:36 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1872052 << i'ma hold off on posting http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1871779 item , then, so that i can link to diana_coman's vtron
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1872052 << i'ma hold off on posting http://btcbase.org/log/2018-11-13#1871779 item , then, so that i can link to diana_coman's vtron ☝︎☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: vtron -- yes he did
asciilifeform: btw i confirmed that phf's v98 ( when patched to remove the subkey handler thing ) successfully presses ch1-11, with bitwise-correct results ( compared with classic vtron )
asciilifeform: once we have a One Troo scripting language ( possibly some variant of spyked's gc-less ada lisp.. ) i'd like to write a vtron in that ( supposing nobody else beats me to it )
asciilifeform: it defo should not be considered 'the' vtron.
asciilifeform: phf: right, my current understanding is that presently ~errybody has a kludged vtron, but no one yet posted a 'canonical' variant that's 1) properly genesis'd 2) worx errywhere
asciilifeform: mod6's vtron is my current all-time favourite
asciilifeform: seems like the closest thing to a working keccak-vtron currently is phf's v98 tho
asciilifeform: phf: i dun want to glom python-gnupg into vtron tho!
asciilifeform: and imho it is pretty sad that a vtron even sees ~anything~ 'systemwide'.
mircea_popescu: and i know no reason vtron must have "max line length picked in advance" either.
asciilifeform: and to write e.g. vtron, you gotta pick a max length in advance
asciilifeform: i'm a little surprised the vtron even swallowed it.
asciilifeform: i hate to bring back ancient thread re 'how many columns in terminal', but you ~must~ have a finite width, or cannot write even basic thing like vtron without idjit heapism. and i'm heavily biased to 'make'em 80' , that's how wide my terminal and printers are.
mircea_popescu: i guess so. there were some other items scattered about re what should go in the config file for vtron
asciilifeform: btw phf , i'm starting to think that esthlos-vtron could be turned into a proper replacement for asdf,quicklisp,all the heathen rubbish packagerisms
asciilifeform: so nomoar 'with what do i press vtron' , 'where is php', etc
asciilifeform: in orig vtron i relied on 'muscle power' to avoid this boojum, it proved insufficient; hence manifests.
ave1: yes, I know, but you asked about the senario; no published vtron permitted...
asciilifeform: ave1: no published vtron ever permitted 'more than one possible ancestor'
trinque: btw no insult meant to esthlos; we'll get an ebuild in there for his vtron as well, but he lacks a differ, and thus it's not a full v
asciilifeform: bvt: since you're already playing with a vtron, i suspect you know what the correct process is re patch
asciilifeform: i actually posted an experimental vtron that hashed the names
trinque: sure, vtron presses the ports tree, gprbuild builds
asciilifeform: imho gprbuild oughta stay separate item from vtron tho
asciilifeform: ( i.e. working vtron already present )
asciilifeform: but even if not changes, but minor refinements, e.g. the graph plotter -- n00bs will end up with old vtron, and then gotta press a newer
asciilifeform: diana_coman: as i understand q was 'how to give n00b his 1st vtron'
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 11:51 esthlos: trinque: asdf is used to join the pieces together (keccak, gpg, etc.) for use by the vtron proper. I tried to build the vtron modularly, and my understanding is that asdf is the standard for handling modules in common lisp. is there a better way to do package management in cl?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856349 << right nao it's asdf, yes. but hopefully soon asdf can be replaced by your vtron-in-cl ! ☝︎
esthlos: trinque: asdf is used to join the pieces together (keccak, gpg, etc.) for use by the vtron proper. I tried to build the vtron modularly, and my understanding is that asdf is the standard for handling modules in common lisp. is there a better way to do package management in cl? ☟︎
esthlos: trinque: wrt the keccak vtron, see http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/YWfb5/?raw=true . I haven't managed to get asdf working with ccl, though the sbcl version builds and appears to work. Note that the thing will barf on non-keccak vpatches. Write-up will come in the next few days. I also have some log catch-up to do: will read the context and repond to your other question soon.
mod6: I want users to be able to get a vtron, as they do now, with v.pl, then build trb in very much the same way they are able to today.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> the one useful thing here would be to get trb properly ground already. << I'm probably not going to do this until there is a vtron that supports keccak.
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform plowed through the phf-vtronics thread when came back from voyage, and then second time when diana_coman requested keccak regrind, and both times failed to converge to correct answ re 'is there complete keccak vtron' )
a111: Logged on 2018-09-27 13:35 asciilifeform: call me an idjit, but i thought there were a new vtron...
mod6: yeah, this is the right approach imho. it's what i'd do with my ada-vtron, if it ever does breathe.
asciilifeform: trinque: which vtron are you thinking of including in cuntoo beta ?
asciilifeform: phf: my orig vtron has been sad and unmaintained, and afaik unused by anybody by me, for long time
asciilifeform: phf: right . what i was looking for is variant of same that calls out to keccak instead of sha512 ( mod6's latest vtron actually checks hashes ) . but apparently still needs baking.
mod6: I had started on a ada vtron last year, but I got hung up with some of the string handling, and the fact that I had to use shell-outs for pgp. I'd like to get back to it at some point. I would love to dispense with the shell outs - and can probably do so, but not until 'peh' is finished.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-27 13:50 diana_coman: asciilifeform, np; re vtron yes, currently it is only vdiff and vpatch functionality; I use old v to see the flow (since it checks the seals but doesn't care about the hashes until press time) and then the vpatch to actually press; looking forward to esthlos' vtron
asciilifeform: apparently diana_coman has been hand-cranking it, sorta like asciilifeform's 1st yr of trb pre-vtron
asciilifeform: and yes it is the picture i got from log. the gap in my head is where diana_coman switched to the new format; i then assumed there is a 100%-complete new vtron, and that 'hmm simply missed this, is in log somewhere' , turns out nope, notyet
lobbesbot: phf: Sent 14 hours and 6 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> nm, distinguished by hand... but my vtron doesn't verify the sigs (not immediately sure why) and mod6's -- sees only Leaf: vtools_vpatch_newline.vpatch (phf)
lobbesbot: phf: Sent 14 hours and 10 minutes ago: <asciilifeform> are http://barksinthewind.com/2018/vtools-keccak-regrind/ old-style or new-style vpatches ?? my vtron won't press'em, and there is no way to distinguish , nor anything in the post to indicate, unless i'm thick
asciilifeform: if phf's item came with a standalone keccak hasher , would then be quite simple to retool e.g. mod6's vtron, to follow the new format. but as it is loox like i'ma have to wait for esthlos , to get full working replacement for old vtrons
asciilifeform: so as i understand nobody has a 100% complete newtype vtron quite yet
a111: Logged on 2018-09-27 13:50 diana_coman: asciilifeform, np; re vtron yes, currently it is only vdiff and vpatch functionality; I use old v to see the flow (since it checks the seals but doesn't care about the hashes until press time) and then the vpatch to actually press; looking forward to esthlos' vtron
asciilifeform: diana_coman: is there a version of mod6's vtron that uses the new vdiff / vpatch ? or what do you use in erryday work ?
diana_coman: asciilifeform, np; re vtron yes, currently it is only vdiff and vpatch functionality; I use old v to see the flow (since it checks the seals but doesn't care about the hashes until press time) and then the vpatch to actually press; looking forward to esthlos' vtron ☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: call me an idjit, but i thought there were a new vtron... ☟︎
asciilifeform: diana_coman: do you normally use this with a hand-patched mod6 vtron ? or how ?
asciilifeform: and apparently this is not a full vtron, but only replaces 'diff' and 'patch' ....
a111: Logged on 2018-09-27 02:28 trinque: obviously I want such a vtron for the cuntoo final cut, or what's the use of the build process producing a vpatch
trinque: obviously I want such a vtron for the cuntoo final cut, or what's the use of the build process producing a vpatch ☟︎
mod6: I took your tarball, dumped in the latest version of my vtron, dropped in the .wot (phf) and seals from what I had in my sandbox previously.
asciilifeform: for this, need keccak vtron. presently i dun have one.
mod6: anyway, it's been a while, so I don't know for sure, but if memory serves, I believe his vtree is incompatible with my vtron, on the whole.
asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf nm, distinguished by hand... but my vtron doesn't verify the sigs (not immediately sure why) and mod6's -- sees only Leaf: vtools_vpatch_newline.vpatch (phf)
asciilifeform: !Q later tell phf are http://barksinthewind.com/2018/vtools-keccak-regrind/ old-style or new-style vpatches ?? my vtron won't press'em, and there is no way to distinguish , nor anything in the post to indicate, unless i'm thick
asciilifeform: ideally i simply switch vtron to phf's and it's omnivorous.
asciilifeform: mod6: i've been using my orig vtron all this time. but recently diana_coman & mircea_popescu prodded, 'what's yer excuse for not moved to modern keccak-v' and i had no good counter, it's really time, so nao gotta actually uncrate phf's and make it go
mod6: <+diana_coman> asciilifeform, hm? I can't quite parse that q; if it helps: I'm using phf's vtools, yes << I'm a bit confused too. I'm still using my vtron.