log
368 entries in 0.504s
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-05#1839743 << probably a multiroot situation. otherwise btcbase does sound alarm (e.g. the "deprecated" patchset has some examples). ftr btcbase is a visualizer of extant patches, it is to some extent more permissive by design than production vtron☝︎
asciilifeform: my vtron still won't press this, btw, even given all 3 patches.
asciilifeform: it is impossible to press this tree except by abusing a vtron!
asciilifeform: ( i'd hope that new vtron format will abolish all inbandism. )
asciilifeform: this has no effect on any extant vtron ( the resulting patches are correctly formatted ) .
asciilifeform: it matters , in particular in asciilifeform's vtron
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: observe, phf is the only one with a trooly , properly strict vtron, rejects non-uuencoded sigs.
diana_coman: re vtools fwiw I pressed it fine with traditional vtron
asciilifeform: diana_coman: possibly i'm mistaken , will have to actually try the new vtool ( and whether it can be pressed with traditional vtron ) .
asciilifeform: in the interest of proper log walks , 1) trinque whacks asciilifeform over the head with the headache of fileism, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765542 2) asciilifeform builds a trinqueian vtron frontend, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-02#1792071☝︎☝︎
esthlos: wrt http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-07#1832726 and asciilifeform 's "sad mode", the idea of using the manifest was the confusing way the fuck back in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-07#1787163 , where I thought "oh, mp wants me to build a vtron using manifest to resolve tree, guess I need a manifest spec!"☝︎☝︎
asciilifeform: aside from old-stuff-we're-doomed-to-regrind-for-new-vtron-anyway, largely in the keccak win of being able to emit arbitrarily long hash
mircea_popescu: so that i gotta mandate every vtron implements 500 hashers ?
asciilifeform: i still dun fully grasp why hasher gotta be hardwired into the vtron. what's the point of even having a shell if not for pluggable items like hash.
mircea_popescu: i'm not suggesting either ; i'm just saying that you have two ways you could proceed. either identify among the code you wish to reuse a tree to nestle among, and then your vtron would be an eucrypt downstream item, or a phf vtron item or whatever you pick ;
esthlos: so two things I see are: 1. what to do for hasher? somehow integrate phf's item into my vtron? 2. what do to for diff/patch? lisp McIlroy?
trinque: is the task for esthlos here to produce a patch util that cares about hashes, or to build all patching functionality into the vtron ?
asciilifeform: looking again at his coad, seems like it simply calls out ( just like my vtron did ) to patch util
esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-06#1832404 << my vtron doesn't include a vdiffer or a patch-applier. was this an oversight?☝︎
phf: ah yes, i thought there was something else. does his vtron use keccak by the way, or it's still a shasum -a 512 call out?
trinque: yep, dood has a vtron
asciilifeform: arguably this kind of thing doesn't belong at all in a production vtron, it is uncomfortably close to the proverbial 'null cipher flag'(tm)(r)
trinque: I agree, promisetronic without the vtron getting angry at you over mismatched name
trinque: mod6: what do you imagine needs to change in a vtron to support the manifest?
trinque: take the example of esthlos recently, dood was being kinda hard to read, uncommunicative. I jabbed directly at forehead on that matter, and lovely vtron pops out the other side
esthlos: trinque: I added a manifest to my v_genesis vpatch. I'm curious, though, how these items (vtron, manifest) become declared "standard", if ever
asciilifeform: nao, if phf can make his vtron handle 'arbitrary' (say, up to avail. ram) masses, and without losing anything, moar power to him. but in practice something is usually sacrificed, in the name of speed/efficiency, is the worrisome bit.
trinque: whole process of talking with esthlos on the vtron project has been a pleasure.
trinque: esthlos here just cranked out a mighty fine vtron without a fancy hat
esthlos: trinque: any time to look at the new vtron? the currently outstanding issues I'm aware of are 1. need to reintroduce a defpackage; 2. weirdness with ccl and building the gpg keychain
trinque: sure, but whether the same patch hunk ended up in two places is computable, interesting in a patch-viewer sense, not in a vtron-operation sense
asciilifeform: phf: werentcha in the middle of a vtron or do i misremember tho
esthlos: trinque phf et al: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/OYaGd/?raw=true << further steps on the vtron. currently it is freaking out when used with my ccl 1.11.5 . the make-temp-dir function phf provided throws an error on the first invocation, which prevents use as an executable, but oddly the function works if I return to the top level and then call it again.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-23 02:43 esthlos: btw trinque, have made most of changes to vtron, just have to add mkstemp for ccl (which I know thanks to phf is #_mkstemp)
esthlos: gotta hit the sack for now, vtron tomorrow
esthlos: btw trinque, have made most of changes to vtron, just have to add mkstemp for ccl (which I know thanks to phf is #_mkstemp)
mod6: You've read the docs & use my vtron enough to know this!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: a correctly-written adult vtron should NEVER fail during press
esthlos: trinque asciilifeform phf etc: what's the best way to deal with sbcl's package lock error when redefining run-program? my naive approach was to define a new package for the vtron. But I'm pounding my head against use-package anyway
deedbot: http://blog.esthlos.com/a-vtron/ << esthlos - A Vtron
ben_vulpes: esthlos: where do you want input? comments on a-vtron ?
asciilifeform: trinque: the vtron ?
mircea_popescu: so yes, a correctly implemented vtron has no history file notion.
mod6: as a side-note, my vtron when doing operations and graphing checks *all* edges.
esthlos: trinque: you can find my writeup at http://blog.esthlos.com/a-vtron/ . I recall you wanted to have the thing return sane data from ops instead of format barfage
asciilifeform: mod6: the included illustration was to the effect of 'what if trb had been made using this type of vtron, from genesis to present day' .
mod6: I believe so, it does this: 1] It takes a press of v99. 2] Runs dir2txt.py on each dir, doing vdiffs of all the files. Stuffing output into monoblok. 3] Monoblok has 1 antecedent hash, 1 dependant hash, rest meta & source. 4] You load the monobloks (signed ofc) into a vtron, press them. They press into one giant file with metadata and source only. 5] one runs txt2dir.py on teh giant crystal to inflate univ
asciilifeform: mod6: note, even tho the proggy ~could~ be used as-is, i doubt that anybody would want to; it is really demo of a potential frontend to be built into vtron .
mircea_popescu: do the tx stuff ; ada vtron can wait.
mod6: One other thing about ada-vtron, at the time, I was using system commands to execute `gnupg'. Where as now, perhaps we can use ffa/peh.
mod6: mircea_popescu: thanks too for prodding me about Ada-vtron. I'll poke at it as I can, for sure.
mod6: (re: crystals) re-reading the email, it is jogging my memory that I didn't use the included trb files specifically. I recall screwing around and wiring in my vtron, as opposed to your vtron, then who knows. I probably did something dumb.
asciilifeform: trinque: fwiw it was how my orig (unreleased) vtron worked.
asciilifeform: ( it is apparently possible to write a vtron, and not know what happens when you orphan a branch.. )
asciilifeform: esthlos: i recommend to take vtron and experiment with it until you grasp how it works, it will click in your head quickly
lobbes: I did! Was simple as removing the robots.txt from .seals. btw I love the manual you included with yer vtron
mod6: my vtron pulls in 'vdiff_fixes_newline_gcc.vpatch' because it is an antecedent of 'vdiff_sha_static.vpatch' : http://www.mod6.net/2018/April/10/vtools_graph.html
mod6: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/AVFdI/?raw=true << ok that works. but my vtron chokes on this patch set -- mis-orders the press path, for some reason I still don't understand yet.
asciilifeform: then why does mod6's vtron barf
mircea_popescu: mod6 well, which way do you want to go ? i assumed that was kinda your plan, bake ada vtron, meanwhile maintain perl one functional but not really ugprade or anything. or ?
mod6: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-4-9#328866 << ok cool. sounds good. the ada part here is to phf right? or do you mean my not-yet-fully-baked ada vtron?☝︎
asciilifeform: hence i called 'trinquian vtron'
asciilifeform: prolly i oughta preemptively answer the q of 'where are the hashes'. answ: hashing belongs in vtron, and would be of entire shebang produced by ^above .
asciilifeform: ( or rather, just the whole-program representation therein -- it is not a vtron )
asciilifeform ftr biased in favour of pills that leave the orig vtron simple ( while potentially introducing a separate tool for testing conformance to chronology )
asciilifeform: i no longer try to actively persuade folx 'it oughta be Like So!' , at this point it is up to phf , mircea_popescu , diana_coman , et al, folx who very actively work on multi-author projects , to determine a Troo Vtron
asciilifeform: phf: which is why i wrote the classical vtron the way i did -- wanted max flexibility of form. and yes this has cost.
asciilifeform: original v left chronicling as a per-project convention, to the pleasure of the project operator, rather than part of vtron
asciilifeform: i was somehow quite certain that trinque had a pseudocode-algo for his improved vtron
asciilifeform: phf fixed it immediately when he wrote his patchviewer vtron.
asciilifeform: and possibly also in an early mod6 vtron.
mod6: huh, well that's news to me -- I was prodded to use that in the latest version of my vtron. I'll have to look into that. Not that my thing is related to hanbot's problem.
mod6: <+hanbot> ooo ty asciilifeform, quite right. now how did i end up with old vtron and new usermanual, lol << oh, herp, didn't even see this.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> hanbot: mod6's old vtron did not support 'verbose' << pretty sure always did -- at least going back 2 years, aha.
hanbot: ooo ty asciilifeform, quite right. now how did i end up with old vtron and new usermanual, lol
asciilifeform: hanbot: mod6's old vtron did not support 'verbose'
hanbot: i do have the old mod6 vtron, i'll look @ new, ty asciilifeform
asciilifeform: ( iirc mod6 introduced a check in a recent edition of his vtron, but possible that hanbot has the old one ? )
esthlos: Hi all, I developed a vtron, writeup here: http://www.esthlos.com/posts/2018/03/17.html . I know I need a comments mechanism: next project is to get mp-wp working
mod6: My vtron also fails on this as well. I have a whole write up here. Stand by:
mod6: what my vtron does is this: as it iterates through the list of patches to be pressed, after each vpatch pressed, it checks that the output file sha matches the expected.
shinohai: and phf's diff + ur vtron passed a personal vtest 2gether as well
mod6: I gotta get this mission critical stuff with vtron out of the way. Then should be undertaking myself.
mod6: The formal release version is planned of course. Thanks for paitence, and help to get this vtron in proper working order.
mod6: Lords and Ladies of The Most Serene Republic, I present to you a pre-patched *EXPERIMENTAL* version of my vtron (99993), along with a patch to show changes from V (99994): http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2018-January/000287.html
asciilifeform: let the d00d write his vtron. it's a homework, not a heroic quest . then -- beat with sticks. not before.
mod6: before writing a vtron, maybe spend sometime using one.
ben_vulpes: wutwutwut? a vtron webapp?
asciilifeform: douchebag: this is not miserable american school . shoot first; ask questions second. make a vtron. if its function diverges in some way from previous vtrons, you will a) notice b) find out why c ) then, ~maybe~ later ask others, if cannot determine solution on your own
asciilifeform: but asciilifeform for one will read his vtron. and ffa homework answers.
mod6: I'm gonna get this vtron stuff out of the way, then dive in. I should be able to make it through the first 3 chapters pretty easily. I even wrote my own unit tests for those parts.
mod6: Some of this is my fault, I've been trying to keep up here. Getting kinda swampped with a bunch of things at once. But! These are all good things. FFA, eucrypt, ada, vtron stuff, et. al.
hanbot: meanwhile asciilifeform's vtron on hold until i get python on server, nfs apparently eschews
asciilifeform: hanbot: see if you can achieve same barf with my vtron
mircea_popescu: hanbot selfbake vtron or ?
asciilifeform: hanbot: i'd like to know how you got '.orig'. afaik this only happens when merging is enabled. no vtron i know of , enables it
asciilifeform: trinque: is there a changelog-eating vtron somewhere ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there is no way to weasel out of the fact that the info is available, but simply ignored by ineptly made vtron.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-18#1772477 << in ideal vtron, the 'and i stole x from a, y from b...' is protocolic, rather than promisetronic. i.e. abolition of eyeball-powered diff.☝︎
mod6: mircea_popescu: also, fwiw, we might need to adjust our "NO '--- ' or '+++ ' to begin a line in a vpatch to "NO '-- ' or '++ '". There was a vpatch in development where my vtron choked on a line being added into a source file that began with '++', and with the diff '+', became '+++'. My vtron correctly choked here. But maybe a bit of an adjustment to the rule?