assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1363 @ 0.00058476 = 0.797 BTC [-] {22}
RagnarDanneskjol: ;;later tell mircea_popescu pls ping me when yur back in the hood
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10700 @ 0.00085058 = 9.1012 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18955 @ 0.00085039 = 16.1191 BTC [-]
gribble: Current Blocks: 318162 | Current Difficulty: 2.38446700388033E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 318527 | Next Difficulty In: 365 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 3 hours, 50 minutes, and 3 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 26786940350.7 | Estimated Percent Change: 12.33932
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 40 @ 0.0217227 = 0.8689 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1745 @ 0.0008496 = 1.4826 BTC [-]
assbot: The Coinbase Blog Coinbase Insured
assbot: Of mendacity, mold, bugs and other things. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck hey. so as i was telling RagnarDanneskjol, i have no problem covering you if you can deliver the thing by what was it, end of sept ?
MolokoDeck: ready to talk about details for completing the cryptocontract bot. most of the unit tests are in place, but it's a good idea to fill in any desiderata or necessities to reasonable detail.
ben_vulpes: hey does anyone have a link to that thing where coinbase straight up blocks certain addrs?
assbot: Cred ca pe alocuri se exagereaza pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
MolokoDeck: end of september seems easily doable to have a working version going and available as source in a GIT repository.
mircea_popescu: so tell me again what you think this is, best way to go about thisa
MolokoDeck: one wants to time-stamp and "notarize" documents that are signed by counterparties with verifiable cryptosignatures registered with #bitcoin-otc WebOfTrust.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell peterl otherwise, the point that "bitcoin is the chosen" by the very code is quite sound and an intelligent way to go about it.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck nevermind what one wants, say what the thing does.
MolokoDeck: the bot would respond that all of the cryptosignatures of the listed nicks were registered with #bitocin-otc, their public key hashes matched and all the signatures were good.
mircea_popescu: it would extract the nicks from the signatures in the .txt. the mechanism to do this relies on gribble, did you see that ping ?
MolokoDeck: then the bot would return an SHA256 hash of the document, encode it as a bitcoin address and make a minimum non-spendable transaction, and log to a repository or blog the document with the sha256 hash and the transaction ID containing the encoded hash, and the block number it's in. It would wait to get a confirmation before doing this so the transaction would be in the blockchain.
MolokoDeck: if the signatures could be extracted from the document without knowing the corresponding public key, which I'm getting out of the public key registry that wot uses, that would be good.
MolokoDeck: but so far I haven't dug in enough to know if that's doable given command line GPG, I think you have to validate against a public key.
MolokoDeck: simply having valid signatures doesn't guarantee that the people who made the contract signed it. which is why I'm using wot as an authority to find the registered keys for the parties asserted to have been signatories.
gribble: bluemeanie4 was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 days, 23 hours, 9 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: <BlueMeanie4> later
ben_vulpes: does anyone have a link to the lawsuit by the guy who sued the usg for the gold they 'borrowed'?
ben_vulpes: i don't even recall the name of the suit.
assbot: Logged on 12-08-2014 03:25:41; gribble: (gpg info [--key|--address] <nick>) -- Returns the registration details of registered user <nick>. If '--key' option is given, interpret <nick> as a GPG key ID.
gribble: Nick 'mircea_popescu', with hostmask 'mircea_popescu!~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu', is identified as user 'mircea_popescu', with GPG key id 8A736F0E2FB7B452, key fingerprint 6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452, and bitcoin address None
gribble: Error: "gpginfo" is not a valid command.
MolokoDeck: since the idea of a cryptocontract is that it's unenforceable and the value of performing as per the contract is one's reputation, it seemed important to make sure the claimed signatories are probably the signatories.
mircea_popescu: ;;gpg info --key 6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452
MolokoDeck: I can show you the unit tests doing that.
MolokoDeck: not sure I want the test server's URL going into a channel log though.
gribble: User 'mircea_popescu', with keyid 8A736F0E2FB7B452, fingerprint 6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452, and bitcoin address None, registered on Fri Jul 22 08:39:10 2011, last authed on Fri Aug 29 20:36:13 2014.
http://b-otc.com/vg?nick=mircea_popescu . Currently authenticated from hostmask mircea_popescu!~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu .
ben_vulpes: you can message gribble privately, MolokoDeck
MolokoDeck: actually, if one invites Tao_Jones in here and voices the bot some of these functions already work.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck so basically, bot reads each document, extracts declared sig, puts it to gribble
mircea_popescu: this way you don't have to keep updated keyrings locally or verify signatures in any wya
☟︎☟︎ MolokoDeck: instead I'm using the wot API and the associated public key server, adding the public key to the bot's keyring each time a contract is validated, then verifying the signatures.
MolokoDeck: ok. so you want to use gribble as an open agent.
MolokoDeck: the way i've done it makes it somewhat stand-alone. if the public key registry is replaced it would be general cryptocontracts.
mircea_popescu: so i figure why no give clueless noobs a chance. send an order "
http://mediaparty.info/2014/ << find the afterparty". half hour later, "i can't find anything. nobody is sayinga word on sm, there's ONE picture of a guy and some wine on twitter without enough background to find where it is or anything".
assbot: Hacks/Hackers BA Media Party, Buenos Aires, Argentina
mircea_popescu: all these fucking successful derps for crying out loud.
MolokoDeck: ok. not having to sweat keyring security seems a good idea since everyone trusts gribble.
ben_vulpes: what's the "no congress shall be held to the agreements of a previous congress" citation?
ben_vulpes: regarding borrowing gold and refusing to pay it back?
MolokoDeck: what is of concern is that to make a valid transaction to the bitcoin blockchain one has to manage a web wallet. The first cut is going to use block.io since they have a simple API that includes the testnet (which I'm using in such a rudimentary way it doesn't matter whether it's obsolete features exist or not. the subset of features is common to the latest bitcoind)
MolokoDeck: probably none, other than that the software has to store the passphrase somewhere. like... on a server.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck it's never going to own more than a bitcent or w/e
MolokoDeck: or if the bot is started with a shell command the parameters end up in the process list.
mircea_popescu: if someone breaks in and steals the bitcent, hey, more power to them.
MolokoDeck: yeah, it's like 5 cents a document, about the cost of a xerox copy.
mircea_popescu: ok, so say what the thing is again, let's see if i say yes this time.
MolokoDeck: so the wallet just has to have a few centiBTC in it at a time.
MolokoDeck: if security concerns are de minimus I'm ready to finish it as planned.
RagnarDanneskjol: wanna run it down one more time for clarity molo? what it does exactly
MolokoDeck: bot sits in here. People point it at a cryptocontract with multiple signatories. it verifies the signatures. if they're good it creates an unspendable bitcoin transaction with the address encoding the SHA256 hash of the contract. When that transaction clears and is on the blockchain, it notifies the IRC channel and gives the URL of a logged copy of the document, it's associated hash, and a pointer to the blockchain transac
mircea_popescu: it does not verify the signatures. it merely extracts w/e signature gpg sees in the document.
MolokoDeck: it also logs the documents to some kind of repostory or blog. Knowing the preferred format and web address of that ahead of time may be good, but that's like a quick mod to make it do whatever wherever.
mircea_popescu: i need more coffee, amphetamines and cuntjuice over here.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11905 @ 0.00085367 = 10.1629 BTC [+] {2}
MolokoDeck: searching and indexing that blog sounds like a website backend function, not part of the bot.
mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol nah i want it to always send from the same address.
MolokoDeck: some sort of "give the bot another wallet" IRC commandline function would work for that.
MolokoDeck: ok. so it's presumed the signatures are valid?
mircea_popescu: when you feed a string to gpg you either get a "nonsense" complaint or a "signed by X" response, with a warning that "we can't know who x is "
mircea_popescu: this warning we squarely ignore, because if gribble knows who x is so do we
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "Now this wasn't particularly notable at all. Now a lot of mining companies are crawling" << you are not allowed to use now as the first word in two consecutive sentences
MolokoDeck: you need the hash of the public key ... to get that it seems you need the public key. the PGP cryptosignatures on a document are kind of opaque if you don't have the public key already, apparently it uses the public key to determine whether the signatures match the unaltered document and are from the person who owns the private key matching the public key.
MolokoDeck: at least to do what I'm already doing with it. If this is easier than that then it's as good as done.
MolokoDeck: it's easy to spiff a static address with a few satoshi.
MolokoDeck: rather than keep signing up for more block.io addresses.
MolokoDeck: I just sent you a link to the unit tests.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck it's included in the signature block of the signed thing.
ben_vulpes: i have two whole beers to get through before i knock off for the long weekend i want to read more unit tests
ben_vulpes: (mircea_popescu: it's like "i find this amusing, even though nobody else probably does, or someone's trolling me, but it's not quite lolworthy")
RagnarDanneskjol: he likes to keep things quiet until they're ready for primetime
MolokoDeck: I think that use of "now" requires a comma in the first sentence, since it's used as a colloquialism or interjection.
mircea_popescu: no ppl i r not insane tyvm stop pming me. i am aware that through the process as described signatures never get in fact verified and one could create a colision and sign for someone else. this is not a bug, it's a fucking feature. you ARE supposed to check YOURSELF the fucking sigs if you intend to rely on the signed documents. it's the only way to implement this correctly.
ben_vulpes: so signed by "x" does not imply that the signature is valid?
ben_vulpes: or that the signature is valid for hash "x" but that there may be collisions?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes gpg saying "signed by x" means nothing if you don't have x's pubkey to check.
mircea_popescu: a point so fucking readily lost on derpjournos you wouldn't begin to believe.
ben_vulpes: what is "x" in this case - hash or name + email fields?
mircea_popescu: nsa reads like a third of their "secure" comms on this basis.
ben_vulpes: hash == keyid, right? where does gpg get the hash? from the signature itself?
ben_vulpes: and gpg verifies that the keyid is valid for the sig?
mircea_popescu: so having a "signature apparently by 8A736F0E2FB7B452, could not verify" is one thing. "good signature from user MP 8A736F0E2FB7B452" is another thing.
ben_vulpes: in the latter case it compares the known pubkey to the sig
ben_vulpes: can you even verify a signature without a public key?
assbot: RFC 4880 - OpenPGP Message Format
mircea_popescu: it compares the pubkey it has stored (and which you hopefully signed) to the shit in the hash of the signed document to establish it was not merely signed but actually signed by x.
assbot: Public Key Server -- Get "0xaf65ae980c825691 "
mircea_popescu: simply do this : separate the pastebin into individual signed bits, put each through gpg, take the apparent, unverified signer id, put it through grible to verify wot id, put it through gribble again to verify assbot linkage and you're done.
MolokoDesk: including the public keys in the document then signing it with those public keys would lock this in.
ben_vulpes: but in the case of an unknown key, pgp cannot determine if a signature is valid.
MolokoDesk: sure, that's what I wanted to do initially, get the public key from the signature.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes all it determines is that the document formally looks like one signed by that guy.
ben_vulpes: in that there is a signature and a keyid.
mircea_popescu: just like irl, the registrar of deeds does not verify your signature, merely looks that this shitwas signed
mircea_popescu: if a matter of repudiation arises, then that is dealt with by testing the sig.
MolokoDesk: ok. can GPG extract the public key from a cryptosignature without knowing which public key was used to make the cryptosignature?
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck it can extract a keyid from the signature block.
MolokoDesk: I didn't see any obvious way to do that.
MolokoDesk: I did, which is why I resorted to using wot's key registry.
MolokoDesk: heh. I haven't tested this with documents signed by anyone else yet. sec.
MolokoDesk: ok. is the rationale here that if counterparties signed a document, they usually know who they are and since the contract is not enforceable by an external party, only by their cooperation, it doesn't matter who actually signed it if they all know they did.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk the signature of someone you don't know is worthless to you.
mircea_popescu: the verification of identity relies on acts by they who know who you are.
MolokoDesk: and it's provable that the contract hasn't been altered since signed and timelogged to the blockchain.
MolokoDesk: ok. if this is easier than what I've done so be it.
mircea_popescu: welcome to philosophically sound software design (tm). i hope to see a lot more of it in the future.
decimation: mircea_popescu: thinking about your definitions of socialism v. fascism, it occurs to me that one quickly leads to another
decimation: for example, "I demand that the the group give me a "gun free" life" becomes "give us your gun or go to the gulag" for the neighbor
MolokoDesk: one of the many defiitions of "government" is "that faction that has a monopoly on the use of force in a geographic area"
mircea_popescu: all the politics of infantilism, where one makes demands of god, are suddenly exposed to reality, because in either of these degenerate systems of governmance (really, sides of same coin) one actualy may entertain the delusion of it.
assbot: You are right, but if Bitcoin ever goes mainstream that kind of regulation that ... | Hacker News
decimation: MolokoDesk: I disagree, "monopoly on violence" is a refrain of modern apologists for the state
mircea_popescu: no state ever had or ever actually used any sort of "monopoly" on "violence"
mircea_popescu: first off, violence is a subjective psychogenic construct.
MolokoDesk: there's no such monopoly in practice, of course.
mircea_popescu: what one woman takes as violence another takes as courtship, a point the state is desperate to hide from the more unfortunate of youze.
decimation: re: infantilism, charity <<
http://hopelesslysane.blogspot.com/2014/08/gratitude.html " I watched one brave/stupid older woman approach a very large woman with six kids hanging off her cart ($420+ of free stuff), and tell her "I know gratitude is beyond you, the least you could do is be polite." The oldest of the boys, about 12ish, menaced her, got in her face and said, "Fuck you, bitch! You owe us!", while momma smirked in approval.
assbot: The Lonely Libertarian: Gratitude
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why is the pgp corp named twice in the rfc ?
MolokoDesk: assuming everything suggested regarding validating blind signatures is doable: someone points the bot at a cryptosigned document. The bot sniffs the signatures. if all the signatures are valid for that document, it issues a transaction encoding an SHA Hash of the document, waits for the transaction to appear on the block chain, then informs the irc channel of the transaction ID, block number and a pointer to a logged copy
MolokoDesk: of the document. If the signatures flunk it tells the channel that. try again.
decimation: asciilifeform: re: djvu vs pdf << but surely you ocr your digital library
mircea_popescu: we're not getting too far here, lemme write it out as a formal spec.
MolokoDesk: I've basically worked up a construction kit for such a bot. I presume the set of functions I have working, or some subset of them, can be used to implement anything we've discussed here.
assbot: $ gpg -v -v gpg: Go ahead and type your message ... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESS - Pastebin.com
mircea_popescu: of interest is the signature packet: algo 1, keyid 35D2E1A0457E6498 line
gribble: Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system.
gribble: User 'RagnarDanneskjol', with keyid 35D2E1A0457E6498, fingerprint B4AF6458D7D8A2846F91807935D2E1A0457E6498, and bitcoin address 14ixghmHMcB4szGL3ue5WJ1qnjnWnQXiP6, registered on Thu Jun 5 04:07:21 2014, last authed on Fri Aug 29 21:22:04 2014.
http://b-otc.com/vg?nick=RagnarDanneskjol . Currently authenticated from hostmask (1 more message)
MolokoDesk: the only thing i haven't tested fully is spending via block.io's api (i have the encoded wallet address already), and getting PGP keys or key IDs/hashes from a signed document without knowing the public keys already.
ben_vulpes: ;;everify if we're defending against collisions, extracting keyids doesn't help much.
gribble: (everify <otp>) -- Verify the latest encrypt-authentication request by providing your decrypted one-time password. If verified, you'll be authenticated for the duration of the bot's or your IRC session on channel (whichever is shorter).
ben_vulpes: ;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:3848beb16b68ec5ecee1475ddbe35c09c87cb06bfa9f07946cc58571
gribble: You are now authenticated for user ben_vulpes with key 2AFA1A9FD2D031DA
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of -1 for user midnightmagic has been recorded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2993 @ 0.00085148 = 2.5485 BTC [-]
MolokoDesk: ok. working backwards from the document, get the pubic key IDs of the signatories then look them up with gribble.
MolokoDesk: that's probably the most expedient way to get what you want.
decimation: ought these pubkeys be cached by the bot or grabbed from the keyserver per request ?
assbot: midmagic comments on Conformal are the Real Bitcoin Core Devs
MolokoDesk: so this is more a "bot, tell me what you know about this purported contract document, and save a copy, and if the contract isn't obviously bogus, notarize it to the blockchain with a hash"
ben_vulpes: there is no playing nice with bitcoin-core.
MolokoDesk: the unit tests grabs the keys from the public key registry every time and updates them in the keyring. that may not be what we're talking about doing now.
RagnarDanneskjol: i think the 'obviously bogus' part isn't really even a consideration
ben_vulpes: you're the lone positive supporter of ninjaspamgun.
midnightmagic: The charitable thing is the project he's involved with re: children-oriented music education.
decimation: asciilifeform: agreed. why not python?
assbot: Deeds bot : 1. Bot idles in chan. Upon receipt of command including pastebin - Pastebin.com
mircea_popescu: <decimation> ought these pubkeys be cached by the bot or grabbed from the keyserver per request ? << ?
MolokoDesk: bundling the documents every 5 minutes or so. and storing the hash of that. I was focusing too much on indivdual documents. The bundling feature was in my unit test notes.
mircea_popescu: * asciilifeform sees 'golang' as a mild misbehaviour, but won't try to convince people << be fgucking thankful it's not ruby.
MolokoDesk: I see you've specified about 1 per hour.
decimation: mircea_popescu: I guess the question is about how much you trust the keyserver to serve valid keys
MolokoDesk: It's simple enough to parmeterize it, i didn't mean changing it from IRC. sure.
mircea_popescu: mp service philosophy : "make small, absolute promises"
decimation: asciilifeform: which is why Knuth wrote MIX
mircea_popescu: decimation at no point are keys examined in this process at all.
midnightmagic: ben_vulpes: The last time I was anything but civil to the ninjawhatever type, it turned into 2-year siege that culminated in .. like three (apparent) lawsuits because "ops blah blah exceeding authority blah". Why would I want to risk that a second time when it costs me virtually nothing to report on what I see?
mircea_popescu: i'd be so curious to fuck the imaginary daughter of knuth and buffett.
MolokoDesk: I see you prefer the block number to the transaction number.
midnightmagic: And conformal IS misbehaving. You go idle in their IRC channels.
ben_vulpes: midnightmagic: i did for quite some time.
MolokoDesk: there are multiple transactions in a block.
chetty: The U.S. Forest Service on Friday published a nearly 700-word article on how to safely roast marshmallows, all in preparation for Saturday, which is National Roasted Marshmallow Day.
midnightmagic: ben_vulpes: Completely baseless, time-wasting lawsuit because bitcoins hit the multi-hundreds of dollars and random $greek_person found a lawfirm willing to launch defamation nonsense.
MolokoDesk: ok. still have to do a bit of work to find the address in the block. knowing the trasnaction ID is more specific. I'm not arguing the case, this is find.
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic the one advantage of living in the us : afaik it's actually illegal to try and colect on euro defamation cases there.
MolokoDesk: so the burden of concatenating the document blob is done by some other agent and sent to pastebin.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk that's not really your problem. one person could send five documents in one pastebin. three other people two each
MolokoDesk: I had been intending to accumulate individual documents and bundle them periodically then announce the bundle/blog location
mircea_popescu: you've now got 11 things to string together and that's that.
MolokoDesk: yeah, if this is finally it there's not much more to say, I'll just do it.
MolokoDesk: you want to discuss what happens when it's done that's fine. I'm already good to start on this based on previous email relayed.
mircea_popescu: well once it's done it'll be on github and hosted somewhere.
MolokoDesk: there's an option to translate it to python later, but it'll be done sooner in php.
mircea_popescu: then you'd best include notes on how to get a stock php server into a stater where it can run your code.
assbot: tozee comments on Conformal are the Real Bitcoin Core Devs
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes for the most part, we're here to escape the teenage angst of the interwebs.
MolokoDesk: I'm hosting a bot in ragnar's channel already.
ben_vulpes: anyways, midnightmagic there is no playing nice with "core" dev "team".
mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol i got #trilema like that, it consists of me and some other cool kids logging into gribble.
midnightmagic: ben_vulpes: Do you mind if we go PM? I don't want to disturb channel.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk i dunno how you get gpg for php for instance.
mircea_popescu: but it sounds like just the sort of thing to become a nightmare.
MolokoDesk: i open a pipe for stdio, stdin and stderr.
MolokoDesk: a pipe to gpg works well, gpg outputs it's valdiation spew to stderr so most people have trouble using it from inside php.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk and you actually have php irc bots somewhere ?!
MolokoDesk: invite Tao_Jones into this channel if you want to see the bot.
MolokoDesk: or you can drop into one of the channels it's already in.
MolokoDesk: I'm using a lot of scraping to get data in some cases so some modules require periodic maintenance.
Tao_Jones: ---+------------------------------------+-----------------------513
Tao_Jones: ------------+---------------------------------------------------485.02
Tao_Jones: no wot entry for: ragnarrdanneskjol
Tao_Jones: id=11613 keyid=35D2E1A0457E6498 fingerprint=B4AF6458D7D8A2846F91807935D2E1A0457E6498 bitcoinaddress=14ixghmHMcB4szGL3ue5WJ1qnjnWnQXiP6 registered_at=2014-Jun-05 08:07:21 UTC nick=RagnarDanneskjol last_authed_at=2014-Aug-30 01:22:04 UTC is_authed=1
assbot: Public Key Server -- Get "0x35d2e1a0457e6498 "
decimation: is that supposed to be one of those 'ascii art' key hash things?
mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol i don't think tao can stay unless it starts answering ,chart in pm only
MolokoDesk: I notice that cryptsy has so many altcoins now that trying to load the entire json spew for them all crashes the quote-reading module.
mircea_popescu: DoctorBTC i don't recall what i wanted to commend you about, but it was something.
ben_vulpes: midnightmagic: if you don't understand why this conversation belongs in #bitcoin-assets...
Tao_Jones: d/dx(5 x^2-15 x+12) = 5 (2 x-3) = line = integral 5 (-3+2 x) dx = 5 (x^2-3 x)+constant
assbot: midmagic comments on Conformal are the Real Bitcoin Core Devs
Tao_Jones: bitstamp: BTCUSD last=507.94 high=514.98 low=501.25 vol=7354 Sat 30-Aug 02:13:31 UTC
Tao_Jones: BTC-e: BTCUSD last= buy= sell= high=hi low= vol= Thu Jan-01 00:00:00
Tao_Jones: bitstamp: BTCUSD bid=506.43 ask=507.95 high=514.98 low=501.25 vol=7353.59436112 time=Sat 30-Aug 02:13:31
Tao_Jones: vircurex: BTCUSD last=551.0 bid=551.0 ask=570.0 vol=0.22212299 time=Thu 01-Jan 00:00:00
Tao_Jones: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() coinbase.php LINE 96
Tao_Jones: No coinbase data for currency symbol: usd
Tao_Jones: bitfinex: BTCUSD last=503.96 bid=503.97 ask=504.72 time=Sat 30-Aug 02:13:43
MolokoDesk: yeah, i'm scraping wolfram alpha, but if you pay them there's an API that is somewhat more flexible.
ben_vulpes: midnightmagic: ratings are not for "politeness"
mircea_popescu: it's cool and all, but it has to pm to the commanding nick
ben_vulpes: they are for trustworthiness and trustworthiness only.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you really can't say what process a third party uses to discern trustworthyness
MolokoDesk: the bot also maintains a link log page, searchable.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes think of it the only right way to thinl of it : any restriction on the process for others is tantamount to a restriction on the domain of the trng.
mircea_popescu: and your skull over there too, with this brain matter in a wet soup, also got its pluses and minuses.
MolokoDesk: I was considering that the other night, having a web of trust data structure as a graph, then different algorithms to assess inheritance or diffusion of trust, various wieghtings of different endorsements, graph topology analysis to detect mutual endorsement cartels, that sort of thing
ben_vulpes: throwing fud at Conformal for "politeness"
ben_vulpes: rating ninjashogun positively for "politeness"
ben_vulpes: this negrating is for this set of things.
midnightmagic: ben_vulpes: It means the constant claim of credit for work bitcoin core does, the regular snipes and badmouthing of dev activity, the adoption, nearly wholesale, of bitcoin features and ideas without any attribution, and the denial that either someone with access to the conformal code created a fork after rejecting a conformal-mined block, or someone who has a custom bitcoind that doesn't crash on a huge long testnet fork even
midnightmagic: when everyone else's bitcoind did, is evidence that conformal is misbehaving or at least wilfully misinforming people.
midnightmagic: Correct. The mining code, which was unavailable at the time the fork occurred.
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic plenty of people have custom clients that don't get crushed by the hearn introduced nsa bug.
mircea_popescu: what, you really thought we seriously let you people do the coding ?
mircea_popescu: i mean even fucking karpeles had his own (bad) sauce ffs.
midnightmagic: Yeah that was b-s. He was a menace. Nobody who relies on me lost any money at MtGox.
mircea_popescu: this is true, you're one of the very few people who were around during pirate even, didn't go all nuts about it.
justusranvier: I just spent the last three days supporting a code sprint with four Monetas coders and Dave Collins while they work on btcwallet. Midnightmagic's story about btcd forking testnet is complete BS
assbot: midmagic comments on Conformal are the Real Bitcoin Core Devs
mircea_popescu: which is why i'm not negrating you, myself. but hey, everyone his own wot sauce.
ben_vulpes: hey justusranvier i see you collecting btctips off my work
assbot: changetip comments on Conformal are the Real Bitcoin Core Devs
midnightmagic: justusranvier: It was one or the other. They deny it was them. From the perspective of an outsider, what's the truth? Who knows? But the fork started at a block CONFORMAL built, and went for hundreds of testnet blocks. It's not b-s. Conformal's logic is false about the origin.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you got the worthless traffic, can't he have the worthless tips ?
ben_vulpes: what's a thousandth of a coin worth in three decades?
mircea_popescu: make it happen! sign them! nude chicks with tubes on their head singing the ocarina!
midnightmagic: ben_vulpes: A user put a forced garbage collection at the wrong spot in Conformal's btcd, and Go segfaulted for no good reason. The code is not as high-quality as everyone thinks it is.
justusranvier: I've actually got to run for about 30-45 minutes, but when I get back I can explain what actually happened on testnet.
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic people like the fact that it's not in shitlanguage and it's better written than the bitcoind. this is not a comment on th\e actual code quality.
RagnarDanneskjol: mircea_popescu - are you confident molo is clear on the reqs? MolokoDesk - are you clear on the reqs?
assbot: [PRE-ORDER] "What is Bitcoin?" silkscreened posters [15/50 left]
ben_vulpes: midnightmagic: user did idiot shit with code, code broke. surprise!
justusranvier: In any case, check the timestamps on the testnet blocks on the day when btcd announced they'd entered beta
assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 02:01:35; mircea_popescu: cool. address ?
midnightmagic: ben_vulpes: That's total nonsense. It means the codebase is fragile, or the language itself is fragile.
ben_vulpes: i'll posit you the other scenario: bisect the codebase inserting GC calls until we find one innocuously positioned that can discredit the btcd team
mircea_popescu: nubbins` haha shiot sherlock, that satuff should bne on your blog.
mircea_popescu: seems eulora is actually getting some models made woot.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu pretty proud of it so far
ben_vulpes: why a gc call? why there? what the ever loving fuck is the story?
nubbins`: the split fountain on the sky is particularly nice
MolokoDesk: ok. if we're in agreement about what to do and when to do it I can send you a bitcoin address and get to work.
mircea_popescu: what the hell has life in the police state done to you ppls!
MolokoDesk: I may want to talk about the deliveries and such in /msg
MolokoDesk: but it's not an issue to get started for me.
nubbins`: you're going to lel when you see the next layer
nubbins`: reminds me of a thread on gigposters.com, the place i learned my craft -- question was "what's your fave show poster"
nubbins`: all these world-class poster artists saying "space dicks" "yep, space dicks"
nubbins`: i'm thinking wtf? search the archives
nubbins`: finally come across this Melvins poster w/ mcdonald's characters on the moon with huge 10' tall cocks growing out of the surface
mircea_popescu: as per
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z0WmWUT2rM : Plutesc purtat de tate-naripate cu aripi din vata de zahar pe spate ma poatra-n ceruri roz cu nori pufosi pe care fac bule dinozauri somnorosi. In zbor trec buci cu lungi siraguri de margele si-un cartof rustic rastignit pe acadele. Mai trece si un peste de otel si-un urs din muci cu degetel dar iata, hiii, acolo-n zare marea vulva cum rasare.
assbot: RObotzi.S03.Ep13.Sugstanta - YouTube
MolokoDesk: address for project related to contract bot: 1TaoJrnsQzfyBto2PmwPAssce9DGzsHg3
mircea_popescu: "i float carried on tits with wings of cotton candy on their backs, they carry me through pink skies and fluffy clouds upon which bubble sleepy dinosaurs. flying by go butts with lengthy bead strings, and a rustic potato crucified on lolips " etc
kakobrekla: and dont do stdin/out when you have a gpg wrapper
MolokoDesk: heh. Was going to have to look into that.
MolokoDesk: there's probably an includable object in php that does PGP operations that doesn't use the command line. some PGP or GPG library wrapper.
MolokoDesk: generally anything shell() or exec() -like is a bad practice.
kakobrekla: <kakobrekla> didnt i just link to it? < twice, first time was a /notice
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 506.2, Best ask: 507.83, Bid-ask spread: 1.63000, Last trade: 506.58, 24 hour volume: 7309.58172579, 24 hour low: 501.25, 24 hour high: 514.98, 24 hour vwap: 508.106868918
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HASH] 488 @ 0.00115757 = 0.5649 BTC [-] {6}
MolokoDesk: do you want progress reports or just let you know when it's demonstratable first cut for comments feedback and midcourse corrections if any?
gribble: Error: User doesn't exist in the Rating or GPG databases. User must be GPG-registered to receive ratings.
mircea_popescu: get in the wot, you can get rated, then you can just voice yourself and add whatever relevant whenever relevant.
MolokoDesk: but I see why it's the thing to do now, since I'm going to be in here a bit.
mircea_popescu: no it's not. your future ability to obtain work here, as well as your ability to benefit from the positive exposure you worked for today strictly hinges on you having a wot acct.
MolokoDesk: I do understand the utility of it, obviously.
MolokoDesk: I'm in. I'll get that set up in a while.
MolokoDesk: it's a bit of work to "not lose a private key". I jest somewhat.
MolokoDesk: eternal vigiliance is the price etc etc...
diametric: there really isn't anything to maintain..
MolokoDesk: agreed. we'll see how it scales in the future.
mircea_popescu: <MolokoDesk> so far I'm not worried about that. << freud would beg to differ.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk your penis ? sorry to be the harbringer of sad news, but... it doesn't scale in the future, it shrinks in the future.
DoctorBTC: the future is like the cold pacific ocean...
MolokoDesk: I gotta get back to the pacific. Surf's up.
mircea_popescu: i wonder what the divorce rate would look like if it worked the other way areound. doing it five times a week = +1 inch a year.
MolokoDesk: sometimes there's something to be said for equlibrium.
MolokoDesk: pacific... seasteads.. molecular biology research enclaves...
decimation: asciilifeform: what is your favored djvu reading device? kindle dx?
mircea_popescu: so i see coinroll add on bitbet, click, decide to try it out.
decimation: for mac desktop I've found that "Devonthink" works well to search/index pdfs
decimation: reading scans on the computer sucks, but it's useful for searching references
mircea_popescu: but srlsy jurov, it looks neat and is quite visually appealing.
assbot: Reading List: The Man Who Changed Everything (Fourmilog: None Dare Call It Reason)
decimation: one wonders with the ease of finding scans/native text of a great many published textbooks - how long until the college bookstore becomes a thing of the past?
midnightmagic: It's already a good chunk of the way there. Many courses at local universities have entirely virtual course materials and reading lists.
decimation: for undergrad subjects at any rate, you would be a pretty poor professor if you couldn't write your own text
kanzure: unfortunately it is not yet profitable to buy textbooks and resell directly to pulp recyclers :(
mircea_popescu: the average call girl makes a lot better money than the average uni prof.
decimation: considering scholars 500 years ago would transcribe the professor as he lectured, and then take turns reading the only copy of the course text, kids today have it great
kakobrekla: <asciilifeform> decimation: this almost happened when cheap 'xerox' copiers appeared < when i was in high school you could legally copy 70% of the book .... at once.
chetty: <mircea_popescu> the average call girl makes a lot better money than the average uni prof.// but much shorter career
kanzure: the textbook industry spends about $3B/year on marketing- but have you ever seen an ad for a textbook?
kanzure: it's all spent on elaborate vacations for professors
mircea_popescu: most uni profs fail to get their tenure in their late 30s
decimation: asciilifeform: most 'public' schools in the us require the same, always a source of amusement for the young ones
mircea_popescu: most call girls can push it past 40ish if they want to
kakobrekla: the problem with this search is - now there will be 18 results
decimation: that's like grepping ps to find... your grep of ps
mircea_popescu: it does convey the information that the thing was searched later, and you can exclude bots if you wish.
mircea_popescu: but for the average noob, history | grep history yields a lot of... "history | grep history"
mircea_popescu: mthreat how did the exclusion clauses work in search agai ?
decimation: "Then the whole RoseArt versus Crayola battle. The kids at the Salvation Army fair got RoseArt, almost half the cost of Crayola, and that's what the vouchers covered. But the RoseArt supplies were hardly touched and the Crayola was wiped out. At the registers, the fights started over, "My kids don't want none of that RoseArt shit, are you saying they ain't good enough for the good stuff? Only white kids get the good stuff?""
assbot: The Lonely Libertarian: Gratitude
mircea_popescu: libertarian is lonely through his own fault. shoulda made a wot.
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu and its not the bots one wants to filter - its lines starting with '!s' and assbots replies 'x results for ..'
assbot: midmagic comments on Btcd Beta Announcement
decimation: hehe yeah the other link at the bottom is good too:
http://hopelesslysane.blogspot.com/2014/08/the-other-entitlement-class.html "We have millions of these privileged entitlement folks. They are the ones populating the Ivy League schools preparing for their rise to power over the nation. They have never worked a real job, never produced anything, never been allowed to fall on their faces, never been allowed to fail and deal with the
assbot: The Lonely Libertarian: The other entitlement class
decimation: fallout. They have no concept of reality, and sadly, most of us know them personally. "
mircea_popescu: She wasn't talking to me, but I could hear her saying, "It wasn't supposed to be like this, they're so ugly, it's just so wrong." << woman met the orcs, hasn't even been raped yet.
assbot: Block 222996 - TEST Bitcoin Block Explorer
decimation: " The oldest of the boys, about 12ish, menaced her, got in her face and said, "Fuck you, bitch! You owe us!", while momma smirked in approval. "
mircea_popescu: "Not these chirrin, my older chirrin! They needs these for they lunches!"
decimation: you gotta admit the pure chutzpah of trying to buy beer with 'school supply' donations
justusranvier: A few hours after dhill tweeted btcd's first ever mined testnet block, somebody showed up with enough hashing power to find 100 blocks/hour and started conducting history rewriting attacks
mircea_popescu: (only artificial orcs exist. mp knows, for mp has lived all over the world. actual poor people are more pleasant than actual civilised people)
kanzure: why would someone bother doing that on testnet?
kanzure: seems like they would have an easier time using regtest
justusranvier: All we know is they had the capability to do so, and they just so happened to reorg out of existance btcd's first ever mined block, and just so happened to start doing it after they publicly announced having done so.
justusranvier: The history rewriting attacks were 100+ blocks long
kanzure: that doesn't answer my question, actually
justusranvier: We don't know exactly at what height their block was originally mined
justusranvier: Because they didn't save it, and the blockexplorer site doesn't save orphan chains
mircea_popescu: the entire thing is really a meaningless exercise. who the fuck cares what happens on testnet.
mircea_popescu: it's much like natural experimentation : if unreproducible,
justusranvier: But they know their block wasn't bad because they submitted it to a local, isolated bitcoind before they broadcast it to the network
justusranvier: It's just pathetic to watch the Bitcoin Core team and/or their fanboys compete on FUD when they can't compete on code quality
assbot: 10 Orks (subtitle eng) - YouTube
mircea_popescu: justusranvier lol they can't compete on fud, this is a long established point.
justusranvier: So some companies, including mining pools, are interested in running btcd. For some reason, said companies sometimes ask the Bitcoin Core team for advice before doing so. FUD ensues.
mircea_popescu: can you see why reorging some new guy's block out of this world is funny ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.00085394 = 10.6743 BTC [+] {2}
justusranvier: Oh that? Of course I can see how it's funny. The pathetic part is how people lie about what happened.
mircea_popescu: so people have issues with humor, what. i dun care, you dun care, foggedaboutit
decimation: asciilifeform: why not focus on producing a readable RFC first is the question..
mircea_popescu: what are they going to do, write out a spec then have the bitcoind horde pretend "it fails" ?
mircea_popescu: forcing specification through mutually disjunct implementations is the best we get.
mircea_popescu: which is why i took exception to the "why cant we all get along" derpage from midnightmagic yest.
justusranvier: Speaking of specs, davec found parts of bitcoind script validation that involved behavior undefined by the C++ spec, meaning it's theoritically possible to compile it with a non-gcc compiler and get two bitcoinds that will fork on a carefully-crafted transactions.
mircea_popescu: justusranvier "code is the spec" means "the compiler we use is the spec" too.
decimation: because the code wasn't machine code or MIX...
decimation: indeed, one must then blindly trust the logic designer and chip maker
decimation: asciilifeform: I thought apple was trying to get on board with LLVM
mircea_popescu: this can be a decent graduate exercise. "write the longest asm program that does the same thing on all platforms. you may pick what it does yourself."
mircea_popescu: (the point being not to win, but like in any koan, to contemplate what the win means)
mircea_popescu: i was (in retrospect, mistakenly) taking an "observable" approach to "same thing"
decimation: supposedly gcc was made intentionally obscure so that stallman can use it as a crowbar
assbot: corkami - Reverse engineering & visual documentations - Google Project Hosting
decimation: people just copy & paste the whole thing with GPL to all platforms
decimation: "The existence of LLVM is a terrible setback for our community precisely because it is not copylefted and can be used as the basis for nonfree compilers — so that all contribution to LLVM directly helps proprietary software as much as it helps us.'"
☟︎ assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 03:30:44; asciilifeform: the wider the conceptual gap between what programmer sees, and what machine physically does - the more room for turdage - whether of the constructed or accidental kind.
decimation: asciilifeform: because better compiler = more people thinking they don't have to understand what the machine is doing?
decimation: Sounds legit. kinda like the existence of google translate is given as a reason not to learn another language
decimation: yeah, I agree. for me, it's motivating when I see how shitty its output looks, and it makes me want to translate more
decimation: asciilifeform: do you mean to separate "btc client" from "btc node"?
decimation: or inversely they believe that it's everywhere and out to get them.
decimation: next step: find out how to flip that bit in said machine running with crap-o-soft os
decimation: probably the majority of btc nodes run non-ecc ram
decimation: the fun version of this would be to squat on a domain predicted to be used by a popular bot
decimation has an HP amd-based 'microserver' with ecc ram
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8650 @ 0.00085345 = 7.3823 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: asciilifeform: wouldn't there be an "id trail" from the registrar to the bot herder?
decimation: even with payload crypto it would be interesting to watch the incoming packets
assbot: Logged on 03-01-2014 03:15:35; asciilifeform: there are tor exits silently pumping ascii through 'sed' or the like, slipping 'friendly' btc addrs in place of originals.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9425 @ 0.00084908 = 8.0026 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3846 @ 0.00084905 = 3.2654 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> that being - that someone, somewhere, is willing to answer with his arse for what every character in the code actually causes the hardware to do. <<< this is only meaningful in a centralist approach.
mircea_popescu: difference being, between how a soviet rocket works and how a school of salmon works.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18372 @ 0.00084825 = 15.584 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4028 @ 0.00084497 = 3.4035 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18869 @ 0.00084497 = 15.9437 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: The great hazard of being salmon though is being recognized as to delicious to simply render as biodiesel by every living thing inclined to pescitarian consumption
cazalla: well, they do swim against the current
assbot: midmagic comments on Btcd Beta Announcement
ben_vulpes: forks are how bitcoin-core dies. quit burning fuel trying to prevent the inevitable.
ben_vulpes: "Bitcoind core itself of course mostly tried to accept both forks and let the stronger one win." << sounds like the sort of thing a "core" "dev team" should really address - maximum fork size < utxos? mhm.
ben_vulpes: " My dislike of other mining nodes is a consequence of directly correlated forking dangers of alternative mining code, and I think we both know that." << one of these days i'm going to get left behind as reward for my courtesy of loyalty to the power rangers i can feel it coming but maybe if i complain a lot in public maybe the inevitable won't happen
ben_vulpes: "I respectfully question how you can authoritatively champion mining code written primarily in another language entirely." << because fuck the reference implementations.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @ 0.00084497 = 13.3505 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8076 @ 0.0008495 = 6.8606 BTC [+]
assbot: Parov Stelar - Booty Swing - YouTube
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 503.06, Best ask: 504.73, Bid-ask spread: 1.67000, Last trade: 504.0, 24 hour volume: 7779.59236845, 24 hour low: 501.25, 24 hour high: 514.98, 24 hour vwap: 507.673992263
atcbot: [X-BT VWAP] Bid: 175 Ask: 221 Last Price: 175 30d-Vol: 1.64M 30d-High: 250 30d-Low: 170 30d-VWAP: 197
atcbot: [X-BT] Bid: 175 Ask: 221 Last Price: 175 24h-Vol: 0k High: N/A Low: N/A VWAP: N/A
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.23999999 = 0.72 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: looks like conformal co. passed the 'test.' << with flying colours!
assbot: Y Combinator: The American Idol of Venture Capital | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
pete_dushenski: <ben_vulpes> also: if it ain't about money i go/nowhere i'm nailed to the floor << too good!
assbot: Charlie Shrem Hopes to Walk Free After Guilty Plea Deal
Vexual: your link post arrived first
assbot: German publishing house Heise showing how modern Journalism is done: OpenPGP Keys for all their journalists.
http://t.co/DVwZQpOrnk (ger)
assbot: Of mendacity, mold, bugs and other things. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
Vexual: i'll assume you've been drinking all the martinis, and have or want a girl or boy on your arm
Vexual: get up pearly and catch the ferry to manly where youll find doyles on the wharf, gesture to the bacon and eggs
Vexual: find chinatown for lunch, dixon house has a foodcourt, you'll be smoked out with burning meat and spices, jostle for a seat with the asian kids, feels like hongkong
assbot: Doyles on the Wharf Restaurant Reviews, Watsons Bay, Australia - TripAdvisor
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9424 @ 0.00085299 = 8.0386 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Dixon House Food Court Restaurant Reviews, Sydney, Australia - TripAdvisor
Vexual: at night, head to the rocks, theres a german spot there, 2 litre beers and bratwurst and snitzel
Vexual: old cobbled streets, these days with lights
Vexual: then theres a jazz spot a stumble away, where you can drink all the martinis
Vexual: they all have halal options, and if you dont get jazz, they play blues
cazalla: check out "the block" at redfern
cazalla: Vexual will vouch it's tops
Vexual: gentrified by hipsters these days
assbot: Diane Whittaker interview The Block: Stories from a Meeting Place SBS Redfern Interactive Documentary
Vexual: youll also find cafes, tech startups, and old gangsters
Vexual: when an aboriginal kid died at police hands they rioted with vengence
Vexual: dont high five any cops
cazalla: redfern isn't what it was so don't worry too much
Vexual: ive excluded dinner spots over 2btc with waiting lists
Vexual: sydney is hot in december
Vexual: if you wanna go 5 star you vould try quay
cazalla: melb is pretty much the same temp as sydney
cazalla: winters are a little colder here, i've lived in sydney (maroubra) and that's the only difference, anecdotal of course
Vexual: wha urbanspoon wont tell you is the cigar list is epic and girls should dress slutty
cazalla: tbh i'd fuck sydney/melbourne off and go to tassie
pete_dushenski: “All right, all right!” the man yelled, throwing down his weapon. “I give up, cop! I confess: I took the bitcoins.”
pete_dushenski: “Why’d you do it?” I asked, as I slapped a pair of Oikos™ Greek Yogurt Presents Handcuffs® on the guy.
assbot: Bruny Island Cheese :: home
Vexual: goo in pinot and vine leaves? yes please
pete_dushenski: just looking up ferries from melbourne to tassie: 10.5 hours!
Vexual: your rabbits prolly command a higher price in tassie, people apprecieate good meat down there
cazalla: pete_dushenski, bring you own food if you ever take spirit of tasmania
cazalla: Vexual, i wonder if i can bring them in
pete_dushenski: plus bruny island's shop is clear on the other side of the island from devonport
assbot: L.P.D.: Libertarian Police Department - The New Yorker
cazalla: you can always fly to hobart
Vexual: cazalla, they prolly already have rabbits there
cazalla: Vexual, they do, a breeder i bought a british giant from drove all the way to tassie to get them from a woman that breeds them there
cazalla: taking out might be fine, nfi on bringing them in, they went through all our shit when taking the car across on the boat
Vexual: anyone vauum packing them and flying them to resturants?
Vexual: yeah eat em and get new ones
cazalla: dunno, i did read the industry is dead, something like 100 farms reduced to 2 due to costs
Vexual: theres costs, and theres value
cazalla: i think it's due to calici and costs of vax
assbot: Rabbit meat farms disappear due to virus and costs - YouTube
Vexual: i guess you dont have that problem in your backyard
Vexual: well it couldnt get in
Vexual: but you know about intensive farming
Vexual: a terrier run around the paddock should do the same as suburbia
Vexual: put your house in the middle
Vexual: get some plum trees and do plum rabbit
cazalla: when we move, i want to build some type of enclosure so they can run around and effectively be wild
cazalla: i planned to do bees in the spring but i'm putting it off until we move, i can't adhere to the regulations they set for doing it here
Vexual: my butcher has rabbit, and i know the value, im talking of value adding
Vexual: i think its just south of 10 bucks a kilo
cazalla: that's cheap, prob intensively farmed
Vexual: and thats a long transport
Vexual: how big does your freerange zone have to be before you can call them wild?
cazalla: i figured like 1/4 acre or something
Vexual: :) some of these cattle stations could call their beef wild
cazalla: punkman, no but i'd like to
Vexual: arent they just big rabbits?
cazalla: nah they are totally difference
punkman: I'm not really sure about the taxonomy
punkman: but they are considered a delicacy around here, cuz we ate them all
Vexual: there you go caz, big fat hares t whever punk is
☟︎ Vexual: you'll prolly get a fucking government grant
cazalla: it's an idea, they aren't prone to calici or myx if memory serves
punkman: haven't heard of anyone farming them
Vexual: terriers will keep em lean
Vexual: cheap ammo for harvest:wild
Vexual: thats less like fraud than spoofing your bitcoin client version
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user ben_vulpes has changed from 1 to 3.
pete_dushenski: ey looks like stephane dun approved of my translation. i'll take it!
assbot: InfoSec Education: Because Stphane Bortzmeyer Is Lazy. And I’m Not. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
Vexual: lowenbrau for bratwurst the basement for jazz
Vexual: oh, and just across the road from the asian place is the markey where you can find cheap electronics and aussie souveneir tshirts with vulgar slogans, 3 for 10
Vexual: i think the kangaroo scrotum coin purses are made in oz, but largely, yes
Vexual: Naphex: what site? looks similar to "spam fail"
assbot: Were Going To Enjoy This Cocaine-Fueled Mason Jar Rocket Ride For As Long As It Lasts | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
assbot: Researchers: Panda Faked Pregnancy To Get More Bamboo | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
Vexual: nothing quite like the onion
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11250 @ 0.00085477 = 9.6162 BTC [+] {2}
Vexual: only chinese vets could claim a panda faked a pregnancy
Vexual: the actual pregnat panda, the one that pissed on the stich has been hung
Vexual: ;;google erowid mason jar
kakobrekla: <punkman> dobro jutro < lol what got into you
Vexual: what time is it there kako?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1229 @ 0.00085473 = 1.0505 BTC [-]
assbot: 15 Year Old Who "SWATTED" Gamer Convicted Of Domestic Terrorism; 25 Years To Life In Federal Prison - National Report | National Report
cazalla: i guess he wasn't behind 7 proxies
Vexual: i dunno why he's crying, outcomes coulda been worse
punkman: maybe they are tired of all the swatting
assbot: Merriam-Webster Adds Anti-Masturbation Word to Their Dictionary : FAPSTINENCE | Stop Masturbation Now
cazalla: not that, the swatting article
Vexual: yeah, they might have told him about the"fucking with the police" ward
cazalla: yeah, sorry kakobrekla, Vexual is right
Vexual: but the onion does serve some truth with that bullshit flavour you love
BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: National Report is like the Onion only stupider. Basically just made up stories.
jurov: ;;later tell MolokoDesk if tao_jones has working replacement of ;;calc I am all for having it here
RagnarDanneskjol: yes, tao has a number of calc functions... some are listed here.. there are others
RagnarDanneskjol: I have all the modules sitting around somewhere - will get them to you this weekend
gribble: Error: "bait" is not a valid command.
assbot: Quest for vision is a great blessing.
Vexual: either was my wrist hurts
Vexual: i see ykyo there lurking
Vexual: dya think he might develop a sense of humour?
gribble: Nick 'fluffypony', with hostmask 'fluffypony!~fluffypon@coreteam.monero.cc', is not identified.
Vexual: missgivings aside theres lessons unleant
fluffypony: csshih: question - since my one SC51 has grown legs, I'm looking at replacing them with the SC52d. any thoughts? what's the alternative for AA singles?
csshih: zebralight dominates in that category imo
csshih: you looking for high-ish cri?
Vexual: grown legs? what do your dogs do?
fluffypony: and 4 day run time at 2.1 Lm is insane
fluffypony: Vexual: we're talking about flashlights, not dogs :-P
Vexual: grown legs means gone?
Vexual: u might need something with d's
Vexual: and a lens that makes ophtamologists rub their hands ith glee
jurov: <mircea_popescu> [02:52:59] but srlsy jurov, it looks neat and is quite visually appealing. << hahaha. actually, we kept original design done by scrat
gribble: Time since last block: 35 minutes and 50 seconds
jurov: kakobrekla, only tuned logo so far
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3312 @ 0.00052471 = 1.7378 BTC [-] {32}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2585 @ 0.00051042 = 1.3194 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: Inside one of the world's largest bitcoin mines - The CoinsmanThe Coinsman
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21300 @ 0.00085329 = 18.1751 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] [PAID] 9.57940004 BTC to 1`149`988 shares, 833 satoshi per share
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 1.59377130 BTC to 15`114 shares, 10545 satoshi per share
atcbot: Time Since Last ATC Block: 1 hour(s), 0 minutes
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell vexual lee scratch perry - what a guy.
empyex: FabianB: Proxies: mpex.ws mpex.bz mpex.co mpex.biz mpex.coinbr.com Current MPEx GPG-Key-ID: 02DD2D91
empyex: FabianB: MPEx-Status: mpex.ws (805 milliseconds), mpex.bz (606 milliseconds), mpex.co (813 milliseconds), mpex.biz (584 milliseconds), mpex.coinbr.com (error)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 70 @ 0.01170512 = 0.8194 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 24 @ 0.0217227 = 0.5213 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: The eagle never lost so much time as when he submitted to learn from the crow.
assbot: Last trade for S.MPOE on MPEX was at 0.00085329 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: the insureds will always complain about inadequate coverage, and the insurers will always complain about social inflation.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7700 @ 0.00085469 = 6.5811 BTC [+]
The20YearIRCloud: safe deposit boxes only have the safety of being in a somewhat controlled environment
The20YearIRCloud: There's a town close to me that once every year auctions off 250-350 safe deposit box contents, you bid per box and don't know what is in them. All are seized from people who either didn't pay up or forgot about em
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 69 @ 0.01069994 = 0.7383 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25300 @ 0.00085665 = 21.6732 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: re: safe deposit box << My bank's terms say: "We will not have any liability to you or any third party for incidental or consequential damages. If an arbitration proceeding is commenced, evidence that tends to prove that something was left in the Box on last authorized entry, and was found to be missing on the next entry, will not create a presumption that it was lost because we were negligent, intentional did anything wrong or
decimation: failed to exercise ordinary care. Nor will we be required to prove that the loss was not our fault."
decimation: What has happened to banking in the US is parallel to the "substitution calculations" done by usg for inflation - ie a ground beef patty with filler is the same as a well-cooked steak.
decimation: chetty: do you have any amusing links for us?
chetty: decimation, my net was down, I am behind on my reading today
decimation: chetty: no problem, I always look forward to the interesting nuggets you have on offer
chetty: <decimation> well the good part is I got a lot of work done on Eulora today :)
The20YearIRCloud: my preference would still be a safe sunk into a concrete wall in a basement room that can't be easily accessed
decimation: The20YearIRCloud: you own properties right? how many potential hidey-holes are there?
The20YearIRCloud: Plenty , but the problem there becomes the idea of how you access it in a time of emergency should it ever be needed
decimation: asciilifeform: unfortunately if the "from whom" is usg in its many forms, the answer is largely: nowhere
The20YearIRCloud: One good thing with modern technology is the premise of doing waht they did in breaking bad and putting a 55 gallon drum in the middle of nowhere and record GPS locations
chetty: if you own a bit of property (not really but thats another story) there is a paper trail that shows it ...how you gonna hide anything?
decimation: us persons simply have no access to 'allodial title', not even as a rental
The20YearIRCloud: i look to what people did during the yugoslovian war for modern examples of waht , and what not to do
The20YearIRCloud: ND and WY i think are two states that allow a person to buy absolute land, with no further taxes involved outside of day of sale, with no government recourse
decimation: The20YearIRCloud: generally those states (like nevada) use the words "allodial title" to mean "pre-pay your land tax"
The20YearIRCloud: And in some cases, those states are pretty hands-off when it comes to private property
decimation: The20YearIRCloud: When I say "allodial title" I mean something like having the right to arrest anyone - including government employees - on your property
chetty: <asciilifeform> if you own such an object, consider liquidating it and using the proceeds to buy passage to neutral country of your choice//++
decimation: asciilifeform: re: raising an army: The scale of humanity today is such that being a 'land baron' is almost impossible. Consider Mr. Yarvin's quote-of-a-quote: " As the laws of King Ine of Wessex famously put it: We use the term "thieves" if the number of men does not exceed seven, and "brigands" for a number between seven and thirty-five. Anything beyond this is an "army."
decimation: when the population is several orders of magnitude less dense, "me and my army say so" is a more realistic source of power
decimation: sound waves can go thousands of miles underwater
assbot: List of nocturnal animals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
decimation: asciilifeform: what about "find granitic megalith (like Yosemite), build hut, dissolve deep hole using HF, then fill with concrete?
decimation: good point. Notwithstanding the logistics issues. The advantage to your sea-vault is that it could be (in theory) sunk with submarine, which would probably be difficult for any advanced gov't to track.
decimation: asciilifeform: agreed, modulo lack of interest in being followed, etc
jurov: um.. but with increasing amount of ocean trash, won't you have a problem to locate the capsule once it surfaces from $ kilometers?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2508 @ 0.00085583 = 2.1464 BTC [-]
decimation: which raises the question, is a reasonable hydroarray a feasible addition to said small sailboat?
decimation: true, especially with cheap 'night vision' gear
decimation: I suppose if the purpose in hiding the object is simply to escape the gulag, it would be better to start planning your escape now
decimation: better yet an undersea missile in a tube
decimation: in retrospect that kind of "proposal" sounds more like a 'limited hangout' kind of operation
decimation: I suppose if they were close enough to cities that would be feasible
jurov: afaik nukes need periodic maintenance.. would it really be feasible to do it on seabed every so often?
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I was about to point that out, it would be much simpler to rent a 'safehouse' and fill with nukes
Apocalyptic: "read about how kgb and gru hid arms caches in their opponents' territories." // any particular book in mind ?
decimation: you quoted a story about how they recruited 'agents' in those territories?
assbot: Wahoo and Umbrella - Filmmaker recounts nuclear test - YouTube
decimation: The intention might have been exactly what that video shows: wash away all the people in the city, then occupy
Apocalyptic: <asciilifeform> if you are reading this - it is almost certainly a terrible use of your time. // terrible as in wasted ?
Apocalyptic: i've probably wasted more time on lesser occupations
Apocalyptic: It's more out of curiosity than out of potential usefull procedures I may apply in the future
kanzure: lana sator has been doing some of that archeology already
kanzure: exploring various abandoned soviet particle accelerators, etc
assbot: Project Crossroads Nuclear tests near the Bikini Atoll - Baker Shot 1946 - YouTube
decimation: in vegas off the strip there is a 'nuclear testing museum: I recommend going if you find yourself there.
decimation: when I went there was a fellow there who apparently was part of the crew that would enter the underground 'cave' formed by an explosion
assbot: Project GNOME - Unrelated to WIPP...but nearby
Apocalyptic: asciilifeform, on a related note what's your opinion about 'KGB: the Inside Story' by Christopher Andrew ?
mircea_popescu: this "'KGB: the Inside Story' by Christopher Andrew" string reminds me of the "stop sending niggers then" joke.
☟︎ Apocalyptic: this looks like it was printed first, allegedly in 1990
Apocalyptic: mircea, I'm asking whether it's worth a read, I don't have nor know it
mircea_popescu: cia sends mole to inflitrate kgb. this is apparently successful, but nothing of value is ever obtained.
mircea_popescu: cia sends replacement mole. this also is apparently successful... buit... again
mircea_popescu: by the 5th or so replacement there's a distinct impression with upper cia management that the soviets are like... sending complicated insider jokes over the mole wire.
mircea_popescu: finally a high level defector is taken into a manager's meeting, fed somon fume and asked politely
mircea_popescu: he confirms that yes they knew all about al of them, explains some of the insider jokes
mircea_popescu: what the FUCK has some schmuck by the name cristopher to say about the inside of the kgb ?
mircea_popescu: "inside the genovese family, by derparian herparistarian." wtf already. no armenians in sicily.
mircea_popescu: anyway, one is well advised to evaluate his level of interest on such topics. if it's a passing casual worth 5k words then skimming one of these pulpy offerings is maybe fine. if serious enough to remember names, then probably skimming the original papers is a better bet
mircea_popescu: rather than reading the same "us girl next door in a sheet = roman matron" story re-written over and over 500 times.
mircea_popescu: srsly when i saw you discussing indexing and searching pdf documents i thought this is what it was for - all that crap is pdf-digitized.
mircea_popescu: outside of digging through secret service archives, why the fuck would anyone put up with pdf.
decimation: djvu is a pretty amazing 'paper' compression tool. proprietary "paperport" works very well too
decimation: to be fair I think there are methods of using good compression with pdf too. My main point yesterday was about searching the text, for which pdfs are not necessary. after all, if you ocr it, then it ought to exist as a .txt file
mircea_popescu: "given this string and this set of photos, find the string likelies"
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I agree, 'djvu' with a text-track would be a pretty good format
decimation: asciilifeform: do you know of a reasonable gui tool to search and index djvu's with text?
mircea_popescu sayz sed! awk! then re-reads the gui part, ponders, gets depressed and leaves.
jurov: indexing with sed/awk, rly?
decimation: mircea_popescu: sed, awk works fine if you want to search your entire corpus every time
mircea_popescu: and if you don't you can make them make an index file.
decimation: this is true, seems like it should be a 'solved problem'. I think some implementations of 'hadoop' do exactly this
dignork: decimation: Lucene probably
mircea_popescu: leaving the mess to be handled by the sort of people that make guis.
decimation: true. making a good gui is difficult and thankless work
mircea_popescu: no, it is impossible and thankless work. difficult is one thing.
mircea_popescu: but a good gui is a provab le impossibility. "make me a very hot woman that still wants to be my girlfriend instead of say that guy's"
jurov: remembering names and most used options of gnu text suite is an impossibility, too
decimation: jurov: agreed. I'm always having to consult find, grep, xargs, etc man pages
mircea_popescu: i don't readily remember the names of all the women i've been with either.
mircea_popescu: on the upside, once you get it done you can forget about it.
decimation: heh yeah, which results in sites like this: www.commandlinefu.com/
mircea_popescu: "Create a random file of a certain, and display progress along the way."
mircea_popescu: MISSING PARAMETER AFTER "certain". please read your commandlinefu documentation and try again!!11
Apocalyptic: "Random data is generated by encrypting /dev/zero" // a curious way to generate random data
jurov: i was intrigued why it isn't possible for computer to keep asking for missing pieces until the task is fully defined
jurov: "Please define `random'"
jurov: would be fund to watch its users
jurov: "Random means in no predefined order"
jurov: "Error, please retr with positive definition"
mircea_popescu: dealing with the fallout is learned, but using the things is innate.
mircea_popescu: and for that matter, pencils are horribly unintuitive interfaces. think of all the great drawing in the world, and the poor user buying a pencil in the shop will draw what ? a cat ?
mircea_popescu: this old world sort of nonsense can not endure my friends! i am making a company that will revolutionize drawing!
assbot: Loper OS » Programmer’s Editors, Illustrated.
mircea_popescu: but actually... i find myself using nano a lot moar these days
decimation: I use nano when emacs is too heavy-handed
mircea_popescu: so mebbe there's some meat to the assertion, vi inhabits a middle that doesnt really exist
cazalla: sounds like decentralised swatting
decimation: mircea_popescu: yeah your post reminds me of Mr. Yarvin's point about insulting the "protected class".
decimation: one wonders about the total sum of $ that usg has spent just this year searching enemies of the people
assbot: Los del Rio - Macarena (Original Video) [HD] - YouTube
cazalla: i wonder what the chicks in that music video look like now
cazalla: would it be a safe bet the reason newegg and other sites offer a discount when using bitcoin is that it's easy means of coin for usg? they can print as much $ to give discounts and the coin flows from customers -> newegg -> bitpay -> usg?
assbot: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly on Galt's Gulch Chile