log
⏐︎ 17543
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1363 @ 0.00058476 = 0.797 BTC [-] {22}
RagnarDanneskjol: ;;later tell mircea_popescu pls ping me when yur back in the hood
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10700 @ 0.00085058 = 9.1012 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18955 @ 0.00085039 = 16.1191 BTC [-]
TheNewDeal: bc,stats
TheNewDeal: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 318162 | Current Difficulty: 2.38446700388033E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 318527 | Next Difficulty In: 365 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 3 hours, 50 minutes, and 3 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 26786940350.7 | Estimated Percent Change: 12.33932
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 40 @ 0.0217227 = 0.8689 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1745 @ 0.0008496 = 1.4826 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: http://blog.coinbase.com/post/95927658922/coinbase-insured << but not for cold storage
assbot: The Coinbase Blog Coinbase Insured
mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol well like nao
RagnarDanneskjol: pmming momentarily
mircea_popescu: lycerion ce din genuni rasari cu-o-ntreaga lume,
mircea_popescu: nu cere fapte si minuni care n-au chip si nume.
RagnarDanneskjol: !up MolokoDeck
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/of-mendacity-mold-bugs-and-other-things/#comment-106873 >> lmao check out douchecanoe
assbot: Of mendacity, mold, bugs and other things. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: i mean contravex
mircea_popescu: le
mircea_popescu: whoops
MolokoDeck: hello.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck hey. so as i was telling RagnarDanneskjol, i have no problem covering you if you can deliver the thing by what was it, end of sept ?
MolokoDeck: ready to talk about details for completing the cryptocontract bot. most of the unit tests are in place, but it's a good idea to fill in any desiderata or necessities to reasonable detail.
ben_vulpes: hey does anyone have a link to that thing where coinbase straight up blocks certain addrs?
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell peterl " This got me thinking about the topic, so I decided to write up some thought I had on the subject a while ago." <<< the "i decided" device is the absolute worst intro mechanism for a blog post possible. it connotes this guy : http://trilema.com/2011/cred-ca-pe-alocuri-se-exagereaza/
assbot: Cred ca pe alocuri se exagereaza pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
MolokoDeck: end of september seems easily doable to have a working version going and available as source in a GIT repository.
mircea_popescu: cool.
mircea_popescu: so tell me again what you think this is, best way to go about thisa
MolokoDeck: one wants to time-stamp and "notarize" documents that are signed by counterparties with verifiable cryptosignatures registered with #bitcoin-otc WebOfTrust.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell peterl otherwise, the point that "bitcoin is the chosen" by the very code is quite sound and an intelligent way to go about it.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck nevermind what one wants, say what the thing does.
MolokoDeck: a bot would sit in whatever channel (this one) and someone would invoke it with something like .notarize http://domian.tld/contract_0001.txt nick1, nick2, nick3 ... nickN
mircea_popescu: no.
MolokoDeck: the bot would respond that all of the cryptosignatures of the listed nicks were registered with #bitocin-otc, their public key hashes matched and all the signatures were good.
mircea_popescu: it would extract the nicks from the signatures in the .txt. the mechanism to do this relies on gribble, did you see that ping ?
MolokoDeck: then the bot would return an SHA256 hash of the document, encode it as a bitcoin address and make a minimum non-spendable transaction, and log to a repository or blog the document with the sha256 hash and the transaction ID containing the encoded hash, and the block number it's in. It would wait to get a confirmation before doing this so the transaction would be in the blockchain.
RagnarDanneskjol: i think we;re still one step off here molo
MolokoDeck: if the signatures could be extracted from the document without knowing the corresponding public key, which I'm getting out of the public key registry that wot uses, that would be good.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck it cabn, gimme a sec to find the solution.
MolokoDeck: but so far I haven't dug in enough to know if that's doable given command line GPG, I think you have to validate against a public key.
mircea_popescu: in the endless desert of logs
RagnarDanneskjol: so much lawgs
mircea_popescu: !s nick from:gribble
assbot: 1190 results for 'nick from:gribble' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=nick+from%3Agribble
MolokoDeck: simply having valid signatures doesn't guarantee that the people who made the contract signed it. which is why I'm using wot as an authority to find the registered keys for the parties asserted to have been signatories.
mircea_popescu: ;;seen bluemeanie4
gribble: bluemeanie4 was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 days, 23 hours, 9 minutes, and 6 seconds ago: <BlueMeanie4> later
ben_vulpes: does anyone have a link to the lawsuit by the guy who sued the usg for the gold they 'borrowed'?
ben_vulpes: i don't even recall the name of the suit.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-08-2014#792431 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-08-2014 03:25:41; gribble: (gpg info [--key|--address] <nick>) -- Returns the registration details of registered user <nick>. If '--key' option is given, interpret <nick> as a GPG key ID.
mircea_popescu: ;;ident
gribble: Nick 'mircea_popescu', with hostmask 'mircea_popescu!~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu', is identified as user 'mircea_popescu', with GPG key id 8A736F0E2FB7B452, key fingerprint 6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452, and bitcoin address None
mircea_popescu: ;;gpginfo --key 0E2FB7B452
gribble: Error: "gpginfo" is not a valid command.
MolokoDeck: since the idea of a cryptocontract is that it's unenforceable and the value of performing as per the contract is one's reputation, it seemed important to make sure the claimed signatories are probably the signatories.
mircea_popescu: ;;gpg info --key 0E2FB7B452
gribble: No such user registered.
mircea_popescu: grr
mircea_popescu: ;;gpg info --key 6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452
gribble: No such user registered.
MolokoDeck: I can show you the unit tests doing that.
MolokoDeck: not sure I want the test server's URL going into a channel log though.
mircea_popescu: ;;gpg info --key 8A736F0E2FB7B452
gribble: User 'mircea_popescu', with keyid 8A736F0E2FB7B452, fingerprint 6160E1CAC8A3C52966FD76998A736F0E2FB7B452, and bitcoin address None, registered on Fri Jul 22 08:39:10 2011, last authed on Fri Aug 29 20:36:13 2014. http://b-otc.com/vg?nick=mircea_popescu . Currently authenticated from hostmask mircea_popescu!~Mircea@pdpc/supporter/silver/mircea-popescu .
mircea_popescu: there!
ben_vulpes: you can message gribble privately, MolokoDeck
MolokoDeck: actually, if one invites Tao_Jones in here and voices the bot some of these functions already work.
RagnarDanneskjol: he already jas it implemented in his bot
MolokoDeck: right, I could use gribble as an API.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck so basically, bot reads each document, extracts declared sig, puts it to gribble
mircea_popescu: this way you don't have to keep updated keyrings locally or verify signatures in any wya ☟︎☟︎
MolokoDeck: instead I'm using the wot API and the associated public key server, adding the public key to the bot's keyring each time a contract is validated, then verifying the signatures.
MolokoDeck: I presume gribble uses the wot api.
MolokoDeck: ok. so you want to use gribble as an open agent.
MolokoDeck: that's fine and easier.
MolokoDeck: the way i've done it makes it somewhat stand-alone. if the public key registry is replaced it would be general cryptocontracts.
mircea_popescu: so i figure why no give clueless noobs a chance. send an order " http://mediaparty.info/2014/ << find the afterparty". half hour later, "i can't find anything. nobody is sayinga word on sm, there's ONE picture of a guy and some wine on twitter without enough background to find where it is or anything".
assbot: Hacks/Hackers BA Media Party, Buenos Aires, Argentina
mircea_popescu: all these fucking successful derps for crying out loud.
MolokoDeck: ok. not having to sweat keyring security seems a good idea since everyone trusts gribble.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck yup.
ben_vulpes: what's the "no congress shall be held to the agreements of a previous congress" citation?
ben_vulpes: regarding borrowing gold and refusing to pay it back?
ben_vulpes: i'm dying here halp pl
ben_vulpes: zlp
mircea_popescu: ;;google trilema story endless korea
ben_vulpes: zplzplpzlpzlpz
gribble: Decembrie 2013 pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.: <http://trilema.com/2013/12>; ZoneHedge Wow. Such Durden. Much info. About useless ... - Trilema: <http://trilema.com/2013/zonehedge-wow-such-durden-much-info-about-useless/>; Understanding Argentina's Coming Default, For Real This ... - Trilema: <http://trilema.com/2014/understanding-argentinas-coming-default-for-real- (1 more message)
MolokoDeck: what is of concern is that to make a valid transaction to the bitcoin blockchain one has to manage a web wallet. The first cut is going to use block.io since they have a simple API that includes the testnet (which I'm using in such a rudimentary way it doesn't matter whether it's obsolete features exist or not. the subset of features is common to the latest bitcoind)
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck so what's the concern ?
ben_vulpes: john m kerry thanks mircea_popescu !
MolokoDeck: probably none, other than that the software has to store the passphrase somewhere. like... on a server.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes it goes back all the fucking way to 1930.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck it's never going to own more than a bitcent or w/e
MolokoDeck: or if the bot is started with a shell command the parameters end up in the process list.
mircea_popescu: if someone breaks in and steals the bitcent, hey, more power to them.
MolokoDeck: yeah, it's like 5 cents a document, about the cost of a xerox copy.
mircea_popescu: ok, so say what the thing is again, let's see if i say yes this time.
MolokoDeck: so the wallet just has to have a few centiBTC in it at a time.
MolokoDeck: if security concerns are de minimus I'm ready to finish it as planned.
RagnarDanneskjol: wanna run it down one more time for clarity molo? what it does exactly
MolokoDeck: bot sits in here. People point it at a cryptocontract with multiple signatories. it verifies the signatures. if they're good it creates an unspendable bitcoin transaction with the address encoding the SHA256 hash of the contract. When that transaction clears and is on the blockchain, it notifies the IRC channel and gives the URL of a logged copy of the document, it's associated hash, and a pointer to the blockchain transac
MolokoDeck: tion ID and/or block number.
mircea_popescu: no.
mircea_popescu: it does not verify the signatures. it merely extracts w/e signature gpg sees in the document.
MolokoDeck: it also logs the documents to some kind of repostory or blog. Knowing the preferred format and web address of that ahead of time may be good, but that's like a quick mod to make it do whatever wherever.
mircea_popescu: o, that what you meant, "verifies" via google ?
mircea_popescu: shit. via gribble i mean.
mircea_popescu: i need more coffee, amphetamines and cuntjuice over here.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11905 @ 0.00085367 = 10.1629 BTC [+] {2}
MolokoDeck: searching and indexing that blog sounds like a website backend function, not part of the bot.
RagnarDanneskjol wonders if single use wallets are better for this
mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol nah i want it to always send from the same address.
MolokoDeck: some sort of "give the bot another wallet" IRC commandline function would work for that.
mircea_popescu: no bother.
MolokoDeck: ok. so it's presumed the signatures are valid?
mircea_popescu: if gribble says so, yes.
MolokoDeck: verifies using GPG or gribble.
RagnarDanneskjol: mmk
mircea_popescu: no, not using gpg. using gribble.
mircea_popescu: when you feed a string to gpg you either get a "nonsense" complaint or a "signed by X" response, with a warning that "we can't know who x is "
mircea_popescu: this warning we squarely ignore, because if gribble knows who x is so do we
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "Now this wasn't particularly notable at all. Now a lot of mining companies are crawling" << you are not allowed to use now as the first word in two consecutive sentences
mircea_popescu: what is this, kansas ?
mircea_popescu: !up MolokoDeck
ben_vulpes: gribble does sigver?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes nope.
MolokoDeck: you need the hash of the public key ... to get that it seems you need the public key. the PGP cryptosignatures on a document are kind of opaque if you don't have the public key already, apparently it uses the public key to determine whether the signatures match the unaltered document and are from the person who owns the private key matching the public key.
MolokoDeck: at least to do what I'm already doing with it. If this is easier than that then it's as good as done.
MolokoDeck: it's easy to spiff a static address with a few satoshi.
MolokoDeck: rather than keep signing up for more block.io addresses.
MolokoDeck: I just sent you a link to the unit tests.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck it's included in the signature block of the signed thing.
ben_vulpes: MolokoDeck: care to share ?
ben_vulpes: i have two whole beers to get through before i knock off for the long weekend i want to read more unit tests
ben_vulpes: hue
mircea_popescu: lol
ben_vulpes: (mircea_popescu: it's like "i find this amusing, even though nobody else probably does, or someone's trolling me, but it's not quite lolworthy")
ben_vulpes: !s ben_vulpes lol
assbot: 25 results for 'ben_vulpes lol' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=ben_vulpes+lol
RagnarDanneskjol: he likes to keep things quiet until they're ready for primetime
RagnarDanneskjol: something of a coder primadonna
MolokoDeck: I think that use of "now" requires a comma in the first sentence, since it's used as a colloquialism or interjection.
mircea_popescu: no ppl i r not insane tyvm stop pming me. i am aware that through the process as described signatures never get in fact verified and one could create a colision and sign for someone else. this is not a bug, it's a fucking feature. you ARE supposed to check YOURSELF the fucking sigs if you intend to rely on the signed documents. it's the only way to implement this correctly.
ben_vulpes: so signed by "x" does not imply that the signature is valid?
ben_vulpes: or that the signature is valid for hash "x" but that there may be collisions?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes gpg saying "signed by x" means nothing if you don't have x's pubkey to check.
mircea_popescu: a point so fucking readily lost on derpjournos you wouldn't begin to believe.
ben_vulpes: what is "x" in this case - hash or name + email fields?
mircea_popescu: nsa reads like a third of their "secure" comms on this basis.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the keyid above.
mircea_popescu: !up CHRIX
ben_vulpes: hash == keyid, right? where does gpg get the hash? from the signature itself?
mircea_popescu: yes.
ben_vulpes: okay, great
ben_vulpes: and gpg verifies that the keyid is valid for the sig?
mircea_popescu: so having a "signature apparently by 8A736F0E2FB7B452, could not verify" is one thing. "good signature from user MP 8A736F0E2FB7B452" is another thing.
ben_vulpes: in the latter case it compares the known pubkey to the sig
ben_vulpes: in the former all it does is...
ben_vulpes: can you even verify a signature without a public key?
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/rfc4880.html
assbot: RFC 4880 - OpenPGP Message Format
mircea_popescu: it compares the pubkey it has stored (and which you hopefully signed) to the shit in the hash of the signed document to establish it was not merely signed but actually signed by x.
mircea_popescu: !up MolokoDesk
MolokoDesk: that's why I'm getting the public key out of the WOT registry at: http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xAF65AE980C825691
assbot: Public Key Server -- Get "0xaf65ae980c825691 "
mircea_popescu: this is not something that may or can be centralised.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck don't.
MolokoDesk: ok.
mircea_popescu: simply do this : separate the pastebin into individual signed bits, put each through gpg, take the apparent, unverified signer id, put it through grible to verify wot id, put it through gribble again to verify assbot linkage and you're done.
MolokoDesk: including the public keys in the document then signing it with those public keys would lock this in.
ben_vulpes: but in the case of an unknown key, pgp cannot determine if a signature is valid.
MolokoDesk: sure, that's what I wanted to do initially, get the public key from the signature.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes all it determines is that the document formally looks like one signed by that guy.
ben_vulpes: in that there is a signature and a keyid.
ben_vulpes: gotcha.
asciilifeform: MolokoDeck: please, absolutely must, take the time to understand how pgp actually works.
mircea_popescu: just like irl, the registrar of deeds does not verify your signature, merely looks that this shitwas signed
mircea_popescu: if a matter of repudiation arises, then that is dealt with by testing the sig.
MolokoDesk: ok. can GPG extract the public key from a cryptosignature without knowing which public key was used to make the cryptosignature?
mircea_popescu: MolokoDeck it can extract a keyid from the signature block.
MolokoDesk: I didn't see any obvious way to do that.
mircea_popescu: try it.
MolokoDesk: I did, which is why I resorted to using wot's key registry.
MolokoDesk: oh it CAN extract it.
mircea_popescu: gimme a pastebin with something you signed please.
MolokoDesk: hmn.
mircea_popescu: don't make it something stupid.
MolokoDesk: heh. I haven't tested this with documents signed by anyone else yet. sec.
MolokoDesk: ok. is the rationale here that if counterparties signed a document, they usually know who they are and since the contract is not enforceable by an external party, only by their cooperation, it doesn't matter who actually signed it if they all know they did.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk the signature of someone you don't know is worthless to you.
mircea_popescu: the verification of identity relies on acts by they who know who you are.
MolokoDesk: and it's provable that the contract hasn't been altered since signed and timelogged to the blockchain.
mircea_popescu: quite.
mircea_popescu: (and signed).
MolokoDesk: ok. if this is easier than what I've done so be it.
mircea_popescu: welcome to philosophically sound software design (tm). i hope to see a lot more of it in the future.
mircea_popescu: computational soundness is so 1970s.
decimation: mircea_popescu: thinking about your definitions of socialism v. fascism, it occurs to me that one quickly leads to another
mircea_popescu: which is supported by practice.
decimation: for example, "I demand that the the group give me a "gun free" life" becomes "give us your gun or go to the gulag" for the neighbor
MolokoDesk: one of the many defiitions of "government" is "that faction that has a monopoly on the use of force in a geographic area"
MolokoDesk: definitiions
mircea_popescu: all the politics of infantilism, where one makes demands of god, are suddenly exposed to reality, because in either of these degenerate systems of governmance (really, sides of same coin) one actualy may entertain the delusion of it.
mircea_popescu: hence musolini's famous "i demand god strike me down"
ben_vulpes: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8244876
assbot: You are right, but if Bitcoin ever goes mainstream that kind of regulation that ... | Hacker News
decimation: MolokoDesk: I disagree, "monopoly on violence" is a refrain of modern apologists for the state
mircea_popescu: no state ever had or ever actually used any sort of "monopoly" on "violence"
mircea_popescu: first off, violence is a subjective psychogenic construct.
MolokoDesk: there's no such monopoly in practice, of course.
mircea_popescu: what one woman takes as violence another takes as courtship, a point the state is desperate to hide from the more unfortunate of youze.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk ok, so one final time, to check this off.
mircea_popescu: hit me.
decimation: re: infantilism, charity << http://hopelesslysane.blogspot.com/2014/08/gratitude.html " I watched one brave/stupid older woman approach a very large woman with six kids hanging off her cart ($420+ of free stuff), and tell her "I know gratitude is beyond you, the least you could do is be polite." The oldest of the boys, about 12ish, menaced her, got in her face and said, "Fuck you, bitch! You owe us!", while momma smirked in approval.
assbot: The Lonely Libertarian: Gratitude
decimation: "
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why is the pgp corp named twice in the rfc ?
mircea_popescu: i never noticed b4
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i did wonder this when printed my copy
asciilifeform: my guess was - missing parentheses
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know you need to fix the links.
MolokoDesk: assuming everything suggested regarding validating blind signatures is doable: someone points the bot at a cryptosigned document. The bot sniffs the signatures. if all the signatures are valid for that document, it issues a transaction encoding an SHA Hash of the document, waits for the transaction to appear on the block chain, then informs the irc channel of the transaction ID, block number and a pointer to a logged copy
MolokoDesk: of the document. If the signatures flunk it tells the channel that. try again.
decimation: asciilifeform: re: djvu vs pdf << but surely you ocr your digital library
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk what do you mean by "are valid" ?
asciilifeform: that thing is on my box as mirror, as i'm convinced that our phriends will soon begin to monkey with various documents in transit by url
MolokoDesk: GPG says the signatures are valid.
mircea_popescu: mno.
asciilifeform: (yeah i should probably sign the copy i actually read)
mircea_popescu: we're not getting too far here, lemme write it out as a formal spec.
RagnarDanneskjol: test msg http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=5hrDQdR4
ben_vulpes: ;;gettrust midnightmagic
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask midnightmagic!~midnightm@unaffiliated/midnightmagic. Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user midnightmagic: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 2 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=ben_vulpes&dest=midnightmagic | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=midnightmagic | Rated since: Mon Mar 7 15:45:54 2011
MolokoDesk: I've basically worked up a construction kit for such a bot. I presume the set of functions I have working, or some subset of them, can be used to implement anything we've discussed here.
mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol MolokoDesk http://pastebin.com/yrL9xW6z ☟︎
assbot: $ gpg -v -v gpg: Go ahead and type your message ... -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESS - Pastebin.com
mircea_popescu: of interest is the signature packet: algo 1, keyid 35D2E1A0457E6498 line
ben_vulpes: ;;rate midnightmagic -1
gribble: Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system.
mircea_popescu: ;;gpg info --key 35D2E1A0457E6498
gribble: User 'RagnarDanneskjol', with keyid 35D2E1A0457E6498, fingerprint B4AF6458D7D8A2846F91807935D2E1A0457E6498, and bitcoin address 14ixghmHMcB4szGL3ue5WJ1qnjnWnQXiP6, registered on Thu Jun 5 04:07:21 2014, last authed on Fri Aug 29 21:22:04 2014. http://b-otc.com/vg?nick=RagnarDanneskjol . Currently authenticated from hostmask (1 more message)
ben_vulpes: ;;eauth ben_vulpes
gribble: Request successful for user ben_vulpes, hostmask ben_vulpes!~user@unaffiliated/benkay. Get your encrypted OTP from http://bitcoin-otc.com/otps/2AFA1A9FD2D031DA
MolokoDesk: the only thing i haven't tested fully is spending via block.io's api (i have the encoded wallet address already), and getting PGP keys or key IDs/hashes from a signed document without knowing the public keys already.
mircea_popescu: checked. see ?
ben_vulpes: ;;everify if we're defending against collisions, extracting keyids doesn't help much.
gribble: (everify <otp>) -- Verify the latest encrypt-authentication request by providing your decrypted one-time password. If verified, you'll be authenticated for the duration of the bot's or your IRC session on channel (whichever is shorter).
ben_vulpes: ;;everify freenode:#bitcoin-otc:3848beb16b68ec5ecee1475ddbe35c09c87cb06bfa9f07946cc58571
gribble: You are now authenticated for user ben_vulpes with key 2AFA1A9FD2D031DA
ben_vulpes: ;;rate midnightmagic -1
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of -1 for user midnightmagic has been recorded.
midnightmagic: now what?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2993 @ 0.00085148 = 2.5485 BTC [-]
MolokoDesk: ok. working backwards from the document, get the pubic key IDs of the signatories then look them up with gribble.
mircea_popescu: yup.
mircea_popescu: one sec ima write it out plainly.
MolokoDesk: that's probably the most expedient way to get what you want.
decimation: ought these pubkeys be cached by the bot or grabbed from the keyserver per request ?
ben_vulpes: midnightmagic: is this you? http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2evkc6/conformal_are_the_real_bitcoin_core_devs/ck3kwf4
assbot: midmagic comments on Conformal are the Real Bitcoin Core Devs
midnightmagic looks..
MolokoDesk: so this is more a "bot, tell me what you know about this purported contract document, and save a copy, and if the contract isn't obviously bogus, notarize it to the blockchain with a hash"
midnightmagic: yup.
ben_vulpes: there is no playing nice with bitcoin-core.
MolokoDesk: the unit tests grabs the keys from the public key registry every time and updates them in the keyring. that may not be what we're talking about doing now.
ben_vulpes: conformal is not misbehaving.
RagnarDanneskjol: i think the 'obviously bogus' part isn't really even a consideration
asciilifeform sees 'golang' as a mild misbehaviour, but won't try to convince people
ben_vulpes: you're the lone positive supporter of ninjaspamgun.
ben_vulpes: and what is this charitable thing?
midnightmagic: I'm not his supporter. I've seen his type before.
ben_vulpes: ;;gettrust midnightmagic ninjashogun
ben_vulpes: orly gribs?
midnightmagic: The charitable thing is the project he's involved with re: children-oriented music education.
decimation: asciilifeform: should it be in LISP?
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user midnightmagic to user ninjashogun: Level 1: 1, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=midnightmagic&dest=ninjashogun | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=ninjashogun | Rated since: Thu Jun 26 19:05:58 2014
asciilifeform: decimation: for all i care - fortran
asciilifeform: but google proprietary crud gives me the willies.
decimation: asciilifeform: agreed. why not python?
asciilifeform: which python.
asciilifeform: the fact that i can ask this question - is my answer
decimation: heh. 2
decimation: good point.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk http://pastebin.com/iuk6rard ☟︎
assbot: Deeds bot : 1. Bot idles in chan. Upon receipt of command including pastebin - Pastebin.com
ben_vulpes: pythugh
mircea_popescu: <decimation> ought these pubkeys be cached by the bot or grabbed from the keyserver per request ? << ?
MolokoDesk: bundling the documents every 5 minutes or so. and storing the hash of that. I was focusing too much on indivdual documents. The bundling feature was in my unit test notes.
mircea_popescu: * asciilifeform sees 'golang' as a mild misbehaviour, but won't try to convince people << be fgucking thankful it's not ruby.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk 1 hr.
mircea_popescu: !up MolokoDesk
MolokoDesk: that can be variable
MolokoDesk: I see you've specified about 1 per hour.
mircea_popescu: i'd rather have it fixed.
mircea_popescu: of course server may be under load or w/e.
mircea_popescu: but the idea is, once an hour.
decimation: mircea_popescu: I guess the question is about how much you trust the keyserver to serve valid keys
MolokoDesk: It's simple enough to parmeterize it, i didn't mean changing it from IRC. sure.
asciilifeform generally believes that safety-critical code must be written in such a way that auditor can see a tight correspondence between every line and what machine physically does. note that this doesn't entail 'use C!' but can also mean different machine. ☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: mp service philosophy : "make small, absolute promises"
decimation: asciilifeform: which is why Knuth wrote MIX
mircea_popescu: decimation at no point are keys examined in this process at all.
mircea_popescu: kinda what the whole discussion has been about
mircea_popescu: well, 80% of it anyway
asciilifeform: MIX << herr knuth wanted no 'holy war' re: why he picked architecture, nor was he interested in commercial endorsement of the existing hardware
asciilifeform: he was, after all, writing mathematics, not ad copy
midnightmagic: ben_vulpes: The last time I was anything but civil to the ninjawhatever type, it turned into 2-year siege that culminated in .. like three (apparent) lawsuits because "ops blah blah exceeding authority blah". Why would I want to risk that a second time when it costs me virtually nothing to report on what I see?
mircea_popescu: i'd be so curious to fuck the imaginary daughter of knuth and buffett.
MolokoDesk: I see you prefer the block number to the transaction number.
midnightmagic: And conformal IS misbehaving. You go idle in their IRC channels.
mircea_popescu: sadly, gay marriage wasn't a thing then.
ben_vulpes: midnightmagic: i did for quite some time.
MolokoDesk: there are multiple transactions in a block.
chetty: The U.S. Forest Service on Friday published a nearly 700-word article on how to safely roast marshmallows, all in preparation for Saturday, which is National Roasted Marshmallow Day.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk block-and-address. ☟︎
ben_vulpes: midnightmagic: what is this lawsuit?
mircea_popescu: comes to fewer bytes than tx id
mircea_popescu: also, tx id is not as reliable.
ben_vulpes: oh not actually ninjashogun
midnightmagic: ben_vulpes: Completely baseless, time-wasting lawsuit because bitcoins hit the multi-hundreds of dollars and random $greek_person found a lawfirm willing to launch defamation nonsense.
MolokoDesk: ok. still have to do a bit of work to find the address in the block. knowing the trasnaction ID is more specific. I'm not arguing the case, this is find.
MolokoDesk: fine.
mircea_popescu: yeah it's an extra step.
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic the one advantage of living in the us : afaik it's actually illegal to try and colect on euro defamation cases there.
mircea_popescu: might be just uk, i dun recall.
midnightmagic: Hope so.
MolokoDesk: so the burden of concatenating the document blob is done by some other agent and sent to pastebin.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk that's not really your problem. one person could send five documents in one pastebin. three other people two each
MolokoDesk: I had been intending to accumulate individual documents and bundle them periodically then announce the bundle/blog location
mircea_popescu: you've now got 11 things to string together and that's that.
mircea_popescu: !up guest8374
MolokoDesk: yeah, if this is finally it there's not much more to say, I'll just do it.
mircea_popescu: cool. address ? ☟︎
MolokoDesk: you want to discuss what happens when it's done that's fine. I'm already good to start on this based on previous email relayed.
mircea_popescu: well once it's done it'll be on github and hosted somewhere.
MolokoDesk: right.
mircea_popescu: what you writing this in ?
MolokoDesk: php
MolokoDesk: there's an option to translate it to python later, but it'll be done sooner in php.
RagnarDanneskjol: for starters - then pyth pref
mircea_popescu: then you'd best include notes on how to get a stock php server into a stater where it can run your code.
mircea_popescu: i dun care.
MolokoDesk: php is decent for rapid prototyping.
ben_vulpes: oh jesus you guys
ben_vulpes: look at this reddit angst
ben_vulpes: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2evkc6/conformal_are_the_real_bitcoin_core_devs/ck3t55d
assbot: tozee comments on Conformal are the Real Bitcoin Core Devs
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes for the most part, we're here to escape the teenage angst of the interwebs.
ben_vulpes: oh
ben_vulpes: my
ben_vulpes: shits
MolokoDesk: I'm hosting a bot in ragnar's channel already.
ben_vulpes: anyways, midnightmagic there is no playing nice with "core" dev "team".
MolokoDesk: install notes with the php code.
RagnarDanneskjol: well its not MY channel, i just do all the talkin
mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol i got #trilema like that, it consists of me and some other cool kids logging into gribble.
midnightmagic: ben_vulpes: Do you mind if we go PM? I don't want to disturb channel.
RagnarDanneskjol: ooh I'm there
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk i dunno how you get gpg for php for instance.
mircea_popescu: but it sounds like just the sort of thing to become a nightmare.
MolokoDesk: i open a pipe for stdio, stdin and stderr.
MolokoDesk: a pipe to gpg works well, gpg outputs it's valdiation spew to stderr so most people have trouble using it from inside php.
mircea_popescu: php does pipes ?
MolokoDesk: yes.
mircea_popescu: o wow. what a band name.
mircea_popescu: ;;google php does pipes ? the band
gribble: Pipe Band: Music: Alma College: <http://www.alma.edu/academics/music/pipe-band.php>; Calendar - RSPBA - The Heart of the Pipe Band World: <http://www.rspba.org/html/calendar.php>; Pipe Band Magazine - RSPBA - The Heart of the Pipe Band World: <http://www.rspba.org/html/magazine.php>
RagnarDanneskjol: haha
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk and you actually have php irc bots somewhere ?!
mircea_popescu: i thought it was mostly py
MolokoDesk: invite Tao_Jones into this channel if you want to see the bot.
MolokoDesk: it'll need voice.
RagnarDanneskjol: he has a very cool bot that I talk to all the time
MolokoDesk: or you can drop into one of the channels it's already in.
mircea_popescu: um how did this shit go
RagnarDanneskjol: can we kick the bot after - it can get a bit floody at times
MolokoDesk: I'm using a lot of scraping to get data in some cases so some modules require periodic maintenance.
mircea_popescu: !up Tao_Jones
RagnarDanneskjol: .chart4h
Tao_Jones: ---+------------------------------------+-----------------------513
Tao_Jones: | ++ + |BTC-e BTCUSD
Tao_Jones: | + +++++ ++++ ++ |ask 503
Tao_Jones: | ++ + + ++ + |bid 503.056
Tao_Jones: | ++ + + + + ++++ + +++|
Tao_Jones: |+ + + ++ ++++ ++ ++ |499.0100
Tao_Jones: | ++++ + + + |
kakobrekla: such noobs.
Tao_Jones: | + |22-Aug 11:12:09
Tao_Jones: | + + |30-Aug 02:10:23
Tao_Jones: | |33 seconds ago
Tao_Jones: ------------+---------------------------------------------------485.02
mircea_popescu: souch
MolokoDesk: .wot ragnarrdanneskjol
Tao_Jones: no wot entry for: ragnarrdanneskjol
MolokoDesk: .wot ragnardanneskjol
Tao_Jones: id=11613 keyid=35D2E1A0457E6498 fingerprint=B4AF6458D7D8A2846F91807935D2E1A0457E6498 bitcoinaddress=14ixghmHMcB4szGL3ue5WJ1qnjnWnQXiP6 registered_at=2014-Jun-05 08:07:21 UTC nick=RagnarDanneskjol last_authed_at=2014-Aug-30 01:22:04 UTC is_authed=1
Tao_Jones: Public Key for RagnarDanneskjol at http://pool.sks-keyservers.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x35D2E1A0457E6498
assbot: Public Key Server -- Get "0x35d2e1a0457e6498 "
MolokoDesk: duelling bots.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla yeah but it had to be invited
mircea_popescu: that chart thing is fucking evil.
RagnarDanneskjol: i love it
mircea_popescu waves at DoctorBTC
DoctorBTC: does it do ascii video playback
decimation: is that supposed to be one of those 'ascii art' key hash things?
kakobrekla: anyone can invite since its not +i ?
DoctorBTC: hey mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol i don't think tao can stay unless it starts answering ,chart in pm only
ben_vulpes: wow that's quite the paste
MolokoDesk: I notice that cryptsy has so many altcoins now that trying to load the entire json spew for them all crashes the quote-reading module.
mircea_popescu: DoctorBTC i don't recall what i wanted to commend you about, but it was something.
DoctorBTC: saw your shoutout the other night
RagnarDanneskjol: right agreed
ben_vulpes: midnightmagic: if you don't understand why this conversation belongs in #bitcoin-assets...
decimation: oh I see it's btc/dollar
MolokoDesk: .wolfram derivative 5*x^2-15x+12
Tao_Jones: d/dx(5 x^2-15 x+12) = 5 (2 x-3) = line = integral 5 (-3+2 x) dx = 5 (x^2-3 x)+constant
mircea_popescu: ahahha geekbot.
ben_vulpes: midnightmagic: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2evkc6/conformal_are_the_real_bitcoin_core_devs/ck3l0cg << what the hell does that even mean
assbot: midmagic comments on Conformal are the Real Bitcoin Core Devs
decimation: does that query wolfram alpha?
MolokoDesk: ?BTC
Tao_Jones: bitstamp: BTCUSD last=507.94 high=514.98 low=501.25 vol=7354 Sat 30-Aug 02:13:31 UTC
Tao_Jones: BTC-e: BTCUSD last= buy= sell= high=hi low= vol= Thu Jan-01 00:00:00
Tao_Jones: bitstamp: BTCUSD bid=506.43 ask=507.95 high=514.98 low=501.25 vol=7353.59436112 time=Sat 30-Aug 02:13:31
Tao_Jones: vircurex: BTCUSD last=551.0 bid=551.0 ask=570.0 vol=0.22212299 time=Thu 01-Jan 00:00:00
Tao_Jones: Invalid argument supplied for foreach() coinbase.php LINE 96
Tao_Jones: No coinbase data for currency symbol: usd
Tao_Jones: bitfinex: BTCUSD last=503.96 bid=503.97 ask=504.72 time=Sat 30-Aug 02:13:43
mircea_popescu: yeah this is a pm bot srsly.
kakobrekla: if this shit continues imma +m
mircea_popescu: ^
MolokoDesk: yeah, i'm scraping wolfram alpha, but if you pay them there's an API that is somewhat more flexible.
ben_vulpes: !down Tao_Jones
ben_vulpes: sry
RagnarDanneskjol: molo - lets hold on Tao floods
ben_vulpes: cannot deal
MolokoDesk: ok. no more bot demo.
RagnarDanneskjol: sorry, like I said
decimation: lol scraping 'human' interface
ben_vulpes: midnightmagic: ratings are not for "politeness"
MolokoDesk: it's morbidly verbose.
ben_vulpes: or "civility"
mircea_popescu: it's cool and all, but it has to pm to the commanding nick
MolokoDesk: kick the bot is my suggestion.
ben_vulpes: they are for trustworthiness and trustworthiness only.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you really can't say what process a third party uses to discern trustworthyness
mircea_popescu: it
mircea_popescu: s like water.
MolokoDesk: the bot also maintains a link log page, searchable.
ben_vulpes drums fingers angrily
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes think of it the only right way to thinl of it : any restriction on the process for others is tantamount to a restriction on the domain of the trng.
mircea_popescu: only nsa wants that.,
ben_vulpes: well i've got my WoT over here, mkay?
ben_vulpes: it's got these pluses
ben_vulpes: and these other minuses
ben_vulpes: this minus is for this set of things.
mircea_popescu: and your skull over there too, with this brain matter in a wet soup, also got its pluses and minuses.
mircea_popescu: which are the better ?
mircea_popescu: teh pluses or teh minuses ? sodium or -oxigen ?
ben_vulpes: all right all right!
MolokoDesk: I was considering that the other night, having a web of trust data structure as a graph, then different algorithms to assess inheritance or diffusion of trust, various wieghtings of different endorsements, graph topology analysis to detect mutual endorsement cartels, that sort of thing
ben_vulpes: shit's just mad suspicious.
ben_vulpes: throwing fud at Conformal for "politeness"
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk welcome to irl.
ben_vulpes: rating ninjashogun positively for "politeness"
mircea_popescu: so you don't trust the guy.
ben_vulpes: yeah well
ben_vulpes: like i said
ben_vulpes: this negrating is for this set of things.
mircea_popescu: a a yeah. missed that part.
midnightmagic: ben_vulpes: It means the constant claim of credit for work bitcoin core does, the regular snipes and badmouthing of dev activity, the adoption, nearly wholesale, of bitcoin features and ideas without any attribution, and the denial that either someone with access to the conformal code created a fork after rejecting a conformal-mined block, or someone who has a custom bitcoind that doesn't crash on a huge long testnet fork even
midnightmagic: when everyone else's bitcoind did, is evidence that conformal is misbehaving or at least wilfully misinforming people.
ben_vulpes: access to the conformal code
midnightmagic: The rating had nothing to do with "civility."
ben_vulpes: lol what the ever locing fuck
ben_vulpes: do you mean this shit on github?
midnightmagic: Correct. The mining code, which was unavailable at the time the fork occurred.
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic plenty of people have custom clients that don't get crushed by the hearn introduced nsa bug.
ben_vulpes: https://github.com/conformal/btcd/
assbot: conformal/btcd GitHub
midnightmagic: mircea_popescu: That's another issue.
mircea_popescu: what, you really thought we seriously let you people do the coding ?
midnightmagic: I'm not a dev. s/You/those/
mircea_popescu: s/you/those/
ben_vulpes: and yet with the vim
mircea_popescu: i mean even fucking karpeles had his own (bad) sauce ffs.
ben_vulpes: phpsauce
midnightmagic: Yeah that was b-s. He was a menace. Nobody who relies on me lost any money at MtGox.
mircea_popescu: this is true, you're one of the very few people who were around during pirate even, didn't go all nuts about it.
midnightmagic: Not a dime. I did get ruled by BFL though.
justusranvier: I just spent the last three days supporting a code sprint with four Monetas coders and Dave Collins while they work on btcwallet. Midnightmagic's story about btcd forking testnet is complete BS
ben_vulpes: midnightmagic: still waiting on an explanation of http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2evkc6/conformal_are_the_real_bitcoin_core_devs/ck3l0cg
assbot: midmagic comments on Conformal are the Real Bitcoin Core Devs
mircea_popescu: which is why i'm not negrating you, myself. but hey, everyone his own wot sauce.
mircea_popescu: justusranvier hey there reddit boy :D
mircea_popescu: we were having lulz reading that entire thing
ben_vulpes: hey justusranvier i see you collecting btctips off my work
justusranvier: ?
mircea_popescu: lmao asshat
ben_vulpes: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2evkc6/conformal_are_the_real_bitcoin_core_devs/ck3ebmn
assbot: changetip comments on Conformal are the Real Bitcoin Core Devs
ben_vulpes: nah mostly joshin ;)
midnightmagic: justusranvier: It was one or the other. They deny it was them. From the perspective of an outsider, what's the truth? Who knows? But the fork started at a block CONFORMAL built, and went for hundreds of testnet blocks. It's not b-s. Conformal's logic is false about the origin.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you got the worthless traffic, can't he have the worthless tips ?
ben_vulpes: traffic is worthless. tips?
mircea_popescu: what did he even get, 20 doge ?
justusranvier: ben_vulpes: that was your article?
ben_vulpes: what's a thousandth of a coin worth in three decades?
mircea_popescu: "php does pipes ?" nubbins` !
ben_vulpes: ;;calc 0.001/21000000
gribble: 0
mircea_popescu: make it happen! sign them! nude chicks with tubes on their head singing the ocarina!
nubbins` snorts, awakens
nubbins`: buh?!
ben_vulpes: justusranvier: yeah, i run ch
ben_vulpes: and van-ads.com
midnightmagic: ben_vulpes: A user put a forced garbage collection at the wrong spot in Conformal's btcd, and Go segfaulted for no good reason. The code is not as high-quality as everyone thinks it is.
justusranvier: I've actually got to run for about 30-45 minutes, but when I get back I can explain what actually happened on testnet.
RagnarDanneskjol: !up MolokoDesk
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic people like the fact that it's not in shitlanguage and it's better written than the bitcoind. this is not a comment on th\e actual code quality.
RagnarDanneskjol: mircea_popescu - are you confident molo is clear on the reqs? MolokoDesk - are you clear on the reqs?
mircea_popescu: i would think so.
nubbins`: process pictures, for those of you waiting on posters: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=756955.40
assbot: [PRE-ORDER] "What is Bitcoin?" silkscreened posters [15/50 left]
ben_vulpes: midnightmagic: user did idiot shit with code, code broke. surprise!
justusranvier: In any case, check the timestamps on the testnet blocks on the day when btcd announced they'd entered beta
mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol hence http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-08-2014#815547 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 02:01:35; mircea_popescu: cool. address ?
justusranvier: You'll see something interesting
ben_vulpes: this is precisely the fud.
RagnarDanneskjol: i kno
ben_vulpes: ;;gettrust justusranvier
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask justusranvier!~justus@unaffiliated/justusranvier. Trust relationship from user ben_vulpes to user justusranvier: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 1 via 1 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=ben_vulpes&dest=justusranvier | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=justusranvier | Rated since: Mon Feb 11 19:56:55 2013
midnightmagic: ben_vulpes: That's total nonsense. It means the codebase is fragile, or the language itself is fragile.
mircea_popescu: golang isn't all that fragile, gwon.
ben_vulpes: i'll posit you the other scenario: bisect the codebase inserting GC calls until we find one innocuously positioned that can discredit the btcd team
mircea_popescu: nubbins` haha shiot sherlock, that satuff should bne on your blog.
midnightmagic: ben_vulpes: leprechauns? Seriously?
ben_vulpes: un savory garnishes
mircea_popescu: seems eulora is actually getting some models made woot.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu pretty proud of it so far
ben_vulpes: why a gc call? why there? what the ever loving fuck is the story?
nubbins`: the split fountain on the sky is particularly nice
MolokoDesk: ok. if we're in agreement about what to do and when to do it I can send you a bitcoin address and get to work.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk just paste it here.
mircea_popescu: what the hell has life in the police state done to you ppls!
MolokoDesk: I may want to talk about the deliveries and such in /msg
MolokoDesk: but it's not an issue to get started for me.
MolokoDesk: ok. finding the address.
ben_vulpes: nubbins`: looking good frere!
nubbins`: tyvm!
nubbins`: you're going to lel when you see the next layer
mircea_popescu: dongs ?
nubbins`: nonono
ben_vulpes: errywhere
ben_vulpes: plz or cunts
mircea_popescu: COME PLAY WTH USS
kakobrekla: just hairy balls this time.
nubbins`: reminds me of a thread on gigposters.com, the place i learned my craft -- question was "what's your fave show poster"
nubbins`: all these world-class poster artists saying "space dicks" "yep, space dicks"
kakobrekla: you know what I DONT LIKE IT ALREADY!
nubbins`: i'm thinking wtf? search the archives
kakobrekla: sorry, LOVE.
ben_vulpes: aight mes ami
nubbins`: finally come across this Melvins poster w/ mcdonald's characters on the moon with huge 10' tall cocks growing out of the surface
ben_vulpes: babe calls dinner is ready
mircea_popescu: as per https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z0WmWUT2rM : Plutesc purtat de tate-naripate cu aripi din vata de zahar pe spate ma poatra-n ceruri roz cu nori pufosi pe care fac bule dinozauri somnorosi. In zbor trec buci cu lungi siraguri de margele si-un cartof rustic rastignit pe acadele. Mai trece si un peste de otel si-un urs din muci cu degetel dar iata, hiii, acolo-n zare marea vulva cum rasare.
assbot: RObotzi.S03.Ep13.Sugstanta - YouTube
ben_vulpes: can't be arsed. here's to the sybils!
MolokoDesk: address for project related to contract bot: 1TaoJrnsQzfyBto2PmwPAssce9DGzsHg3
mircea_popescu: "i float carried on tits with wings of cotton candy on their backs, they carry me through pink skies and fluffy clouds upon which bubble sleepy dinosaurs. flying by go butts with lengthy bead strings, and a rustic potato crucified on lolips " etc
kakobrekla: and dont do stdin/out when you have a gpg wrapper
MolokoDesk: noted.
mircea_popescu: what is it ?
kakobrekla: what is it what
mircea_popescu: the wrapper
kakobrekla: http://php.net/manual/en/book.gnupg.php
assbot: PHP: GnuPG - Manual
MolokoDesk: heh. Was going to have to look into that.
MolokoDesk: there's probably an includable object in php that does PGP operations that doesn't use the command line. some PGP or GPG library wrapper.
kakobrekla: didnt i just link to it?
MolokoDesk: generally anything shell() or exec() -like is a bad practice.
MolokoDesk: yeah, I guess you did.
mircea_popescu: ;;ticker
kakobrekla: <kakobrekla> didnt i just link to it? < twice, first time was a /notice
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 506.2, Best ask: 507.83, Bid-ask spread: 1.63000, Last trade: 506.58, 24 hour volume: 7309.58172579, 24 hour low: 501.25, 24 hour high: 514.98, 24 hour vwap: 508.106868918
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HASH] 488 @ 0.00115757 = 0.5649 BTC [-] {6}
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk done.
MolokoDesk: do you want progress reports or just let you know when it's demonstratable first cut for comments feedback and midcourse corrections if any?
mircea_popescu: ;;gettrust assbot MolokoDesk
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user assbot to user MolokoDesk: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=MolokoDesk | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=MolokoDesk | Rated since: never
MolokoDesk: yeah yeah, I'm not in wot.
mircea_popescu: ;;rate MolokoDesk 1 dev.
gribble: Error: User doesn't exist in the Rating or GPG databases. User must be GPG-registered to receive ratings.
mircea_popescu: get in the wot, you can get rated, then you can just voice yourself and add whatever relevant whenever relevant.
mircea_popescu: why aren';t you in the wot anyway.
MolokoDesk: it's just another thing to maintain.
MolokoDesk: but I see why it's the thing to do now, since I'm going to be in here a bit.
mircea_popescu: no it's not. your future ability to obtain work here, as well as your ability to benefit from the positive exposure you worked for today strictly hinges on you having a wot acct.
MolokoDesk: I do understand the utility of it, obviously.
RagnarDanneskjol: i been tellin him this forever
MolokoDesk: I'm in. I'll get that set up in a while.
MolokoDesk: it's a bit of work to "not lose a private key". I jest somewhat.
MolokoDesk: eternal vigiliance is the price etc etc...
mircea_popescu: it's also a bit of work not to lose your penis.
diametric: there really isn't anything to maintain..
MolokoDesk: so far I'm not worried about that.
mircea_popescu: the former is a better use of your time.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: penis << dulap!
MolokoDesk: agreed. we'll see how it scales in the future.
mircea_popescu: <MolokoDesk> so far I'm not worried about that. << freud would beg to differ.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform lol you liked that didja.
asciilifeform: mega-educational.
mircea_popescu: MolokoDesk your penis ? sorry to be the harbringer of sad news, but... it doesn't scale in the future, it shrinks in the future.
MolokoDesk: freudian entropy.
RagnarDanneskjol: AHAHa
mircea_popescu: cunts enlarge with use. cocks just sorta diminish
MolokoDesk: these asymmetries.
DoctorBTC: the future is like the cold pacific ocean...
MolokoDesk: I gotta get back to the pacific. Surf's up.
mircea_popescu: i wonder what the divorce rate would look like if it worked the other way areound. doing it five times a week = +1 inch a year.
asciilifeform: plus wear-hardening.
mircea_popescu: "i've been married for 28 years your honor! ENOUGH!"
MolokoDesk: sometimes there's something to be said for equlibrium.
MolokoDesk: pacific... seasteads.. molecular biology research enclaves...
asciilifeform: !s king neptune
assbot: 1 results for 'king neptune' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=king+neptune
decimation: asciilifeform: what is your favored djvu reading device? kindle dx?
mircea_popescu: so i see coinroll add on bitbet, click, decide to try it out.
asciilifeform: decimation: 'nexus-10'
mircea_popescu: http://postimg.org/image/rl12aetz7/
assbot: View image: coinroll
mircea_popescu: SCAM!
asciilifeform: decimation: 'kindle dx' with russian os patch will read djvu, but only really makes sense for very good, high-contrast b&w scans.
mircea_popescu: ;;calc .5 ** 4
gribble: 0.0625
mircea_popescu: CLEARLY!!1
asciilifeform: decimation: 'librerator'
decimation: for mac desktop I've found that "Devonthink" works well to search/index pdfs
decimation: that's the name of the warez?
asciilifeform doesn't read scans on normal computer
asciilifeform: decimation: of the patch
decimation: reading scans on the computer sucks, but it's useful for searching references
mircea_popescu: but srlsy jurov, it looks neat and is quite visually appealing.
mircea_popescu: nice design job.
asciilifeform: decimation: most of these aren't meaningfully searchable anyway
decimation: yeah, more for textbooks, not prose
decimation: herr walker has a review on a bio of Maxwell: http://www.fourmilab.ch/fourmilog/archives/2014-08/001530.html
assbot: Reading List: The Man Who Changed Everything (Fourmilog: None Dare Call It Reason)
asciilifeform: read it.
asciilifeform: also recommend: 'the maxwellians' (b. j. hunt)
decimation: one wonders with the ease of finding scans/native text of a great many published textbooks - how long until the college bookstore becomes a thing of the past?
asciilifeform: decimation: this almost happened when cheap 'xerox' copiers appeared
asciilifeform: decimation: the textbook racket responded by changing books (mainly exercises) around as often as they could
midnightmagic: It's already a good chunk of the way there. Many courses at local universities have entirely virtual course materials and reading lists.
decimation: for undergrad subjects at any rate, you would be a pretty poor professor if you couldn't write your own text
mircea_popescu: and they are very poor professors.
kanzure: unfortunately it is not yet profitable to buy textbooks and resell directly to pulp recyclers :(
mircea_popescu: the average call girl makes a lot better money than the average uni prof.
mircea_popescu: and arguably, for much more socialy useful work, too.
decimation: considering scholars 500 years ago would transcribe the professor as he lectured, and then take turns reading the only copy of the course text, kids today have it great
kakobrekla: <asciilifeform> decimation: this almost happened when cheap 'xerox' copiers appeared < when i was in high school you could legally copy 70% of the book .... at once.
asciilifeform: many american 'public' unis publish complete lists of who's paid what - where i live, this is required by law
asciilifeform: and yes - it's true
chetty: <mircea_popescu> the average call girl makes a lot better money than the average uni prof.// but much shorter career
kanzure: the textbook industry spends about $3B/year on marketing- but have you ever seen an ad for a textbook?
mircea_popescu: chetty not so, not really.
kanzure: it's all spent on elaborate vacations for professors
asciilifeform: most (scientific) profs also moonlight as industrial consultants though
mircea_popescu: most uni profs fail to get their tenure in their late 30s
decimation: asciilifeform: most 'public' schools in the us require the same, always a source of amusement for the young ones
mircea_popescu: most call girls can push it past 40ish if they want to
mircea_popescu: the call girl however can start at 12.
penguirker: New blog post: http://cascadianhacker.com/./blog/2014/08/29_so-you-want-to-coordinate-an-ec2-instance-and-an-rds-instance-in-a-vpc-from-scratch.html
penguirker: New blog post: http://cascadianhacker.com/./blog/2014/08/29_coinbase-insurance-cold-storage-uninsured-nothing-insured-against-the-government.html
asciilifeform: obligatory:
asciilifeform: !s greenspun
assbot: 16 results for 'greenspun' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=greenspun
mircea_popescu: the uni prof can't start at 22.
kakobrekla: the problem with this search is - now there will be 18 results
asciilifeform: lol
mircea_popescu: not necessarily a problem
decimation: that's like grepping ps to find... your grep of ps
mircea_popescu: it does convey the information that the thing was searched later, and you can exclude bots if you wish.
kakobrekla: you can?
mircea_popescu: but for the average noob, history | grep history yields a lot of... "history | grep history"
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla im pretty sure it had a command
kakobrekla: do tell
mircea_popescu: mthreat how did the exclusion clauses work in search agai ?
decimation: "Then the whole RoseArt versus Crayola battle. The kids at the Salvation Army fair got RoseArt, almost half the cost of Crayola, and that's what the vouchers covered. But the RoseArt supplies were hardly touched and the Crayola was wiped out. At the registers, the fights started over, "My kids don't want none of that RoseArt shit, are you saying they ain't good enough for the good stuff? Only white kids get the good stuff?""
mircea_popescu: "yes. shut up and cook me some beans"
asciilifeform: http://hopelesslysane.blogspot.com/2014/08/gratitude.html << she went to lolmart
assbot: The Lonely Libertarian: Gratitude
mircea_popescu: libertarian is lonely through his own fault. shoulda made a wot.
asciilifeform: her.
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu and its not the bots one wants to filter - its lines starting with '!s' and assbots replies 'x results for ..'
justusranvier: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/26h3o8/btcd_beta_announcement/chr3a3i
assbot: midmagic comments on Btcd Beta Announcement
kakobrekla: anyway i go.
decimation: hehe yeah the other link at the bottom is good too: http://hopelesslysane.blogspot.com/2014/08/the-other-entitlement-class.html "We have millions of these privileged entitlement folks. They are the ones populating the Ivy League schools preparing for their rise to power over the nation. They have never worked a real job, never produced anything, never been allowed to fall on their faces, never been allowed to fail and deal with the
assbot: The Lonely Libertarian: The other entitlement class
decimation: fallout. They have no concept of reality, and sadly, most of us know them personally. "
mircea_popescu: She wasn't talking to me, but I could hear her saying, "It wasn't supposed to be like this, they're so ugly, it's just so wrong." << woman met the orcs, hasn't even been raped yet.
mircea_popescu: decimation i actually don't know any personally.
asciilifeform: like tolkien's orcs, these were built artificially and with great care.
justusranvier: http://blockexplorer.com/testnet/block/00000000000fe8aefd4cda07e13cc54eefc71cfffbacdd82d68f97f018f939f6
assbot: Block 222996 - TEST Bitcoin Block Explorer
decimation: " The oldest of the boys, about 12ish, menaced her, got in her face and said, "Fuck you, bitch! You owe us!", while momma smirked in approval. "
mircea_popescu: "Not these chirrin, my older chirrin! They needs these for they lunches!"
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform an orc's an orc.
decimation: you gotta admit the pure chutzpah of trying to buy beer with 'school supply' donations
justusranvier: A few hours after dhill tweeted btcd's first ever mined testnet block, somebody showed up with enough hashing power to find 100 blocks/hour and started conducting history rewriting attacks
mircea_popescu: (only artificial orcs exist. mp knows, for mp has lived all over the world. actual poor people are more pleasant than actual civilised people)
kanzure: why would someone bother doing that on testnet?
kanzure: seems like they would have an easier time using regtest
justusranvier: kanzure: Well, do don't know for sure.
mircea_popescu: kanzure why not ? trolling is trolling.
justusranvier: All we know is they had the capability to do so, and they just so happened to reorg out of existance btcd's first ever mined block, and just so happened to start doing it after they publicly announced having done so.
kanzure: was it only btcd's block?
justusranvier: The history rewriting attacks were 100+ blocks long
justusranvier: More than one of them
kanzure: that doesn't answer my question, actually
justusranvier: We don't know exactly at what height their block was originally mined
kanzure: i see
justusranvier: Because they didn't save it, and the blockexplorer site doesn't save orphan chains
kanzure: too bad
mircea_popescu: the entire thing is really a meaningless exercise. who the fuck cares what happens on testnet.
mircea_popescu: it's not a blockchain of record.
mircea_popescu: it's much like natural experimentation : if unreproducible,
justusranvier: But they know their block wasn't bad because they submitted it to a local, isolated bitcoind before they broadcast it to the network
mircea_popescu: discarded.
justusranvier: It's just pathetic to watch the Bitcoin Core team and/or their fanboys compete on FUD when they can't compete on code quality
asciilifeform: re: orcs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCTL69saJVQ
assbot: 10 Orks (subtitle eng) - YouTube
mircea_popescu: justusranvier lol they can't compete on fud, this is a long established point.
justusranvier: They are trying, though
mircea_popescu: i dun see it.
mircea_popescu: gotta let people have fun, what.
justusranvier: So some companies, including mining pools, are interested in running btcd. For some reason, said companies sometimes ask the Bitcoin Core team for advice before doing so. FUD ensues.
mircea_popescu: you're really making too much of this.
justusranvier: I'm not sure what you mean.
mircea_popescu: can you see why reorging some new guy's block out of this world is funny ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.00085394 = 10.6743 BTC [+] {2}
justusranvier: Oh that? Of course I can see how it's funny. The pathetic part is how people lie about what happened.
mircea_popescu: so people have issues with humor, what. i dun care, you dun care, foggedaboutit
decimation: asciilifeform: lol
mircea_popescu: !up altoz
altoz: hey mircea
mircea_popescu: hey unknown person from the interwebs
asciilifeform: 'conformal' smells suspiciously like a 'good-cop' half of a 'good-cop / bad-cop' act.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform whay, just because old dod contractor ?
asciilifeform: nope.
mircea_popescu: using a sexy language and being generally sane ?
asciilifeform: yes.
decimation: asciilifeform: why not focus on producing a readable RFC first is the question..
mircea_popescu: you are ALSO making too much of it :D
asciilifeform: plus continuing with 'the code is the spec' derpatron.
mircea_popescu: that's a forced mistake.
mircea_popescu: what are they going to do, write out a spec then have the bitcoind horde pretend "it fails" ?
mircea_popescu: forcing specification through mutually disjunct implementations is the best we get.
asciilifeform: i must confess that the conformal/power-ranger war does not concern me personally, because 'happy is the man who has one leg, one sock doesn't tear, one boot isn't needed' - and i intend to solve the pertinent problem with own hands before it begins to concern me personally.
mircea_popescu: which is why i took exception to the "why cant we all get along" derpage from midnightmagic yest.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a sound approach.
mircea_popescu: as i was saying earlier : so has erryone.
justusranvier: Speaking of specs, davec found parts of bitcoind script validation that involved behavior undefined by the C++ spec, meaning it's theoritically possible to compile it with a non-gcc compiler and get two bitcoinds that will fork on a carefully-crafted transactions.
mircea_popescu: justusranvier "code is the spec" means "the compiler we use is the spec" too.
decimation: because the code wasn't machine code or MIX...
mircea_popescu: mix dun werk.
asciilifeform: not only google, but apple, and microshit before them, turned away from traditional 'gcc' suite and proclaimed elaborate crud in its place. i could only ever assume - for ease of 'thompsoning' people.
mircea_popescu: for that matter, fucking machine code dun werk.
decimation: indeed, one must then blindly trust the logic designer and chip maker
asciilifeform: the wider the conceptual gap between what programmer sees, and what machine physically does - the more room for turdage - whether of the constructed or accidental kind. ☟︎
decimation: asciilifeform: I thought apple was trying to get on board with LLVM
mircea_popescu: this can be a decent graduate exercise. "write the longest asm program that does the same thing on all platforms. you may pick what it does yourself."
asciilifeform: ''
asciilifeform wins
mircea_popescu: exactly. a succession of "sleep"
asciilifeform: nah, a string of zero length.
mircea_popescu: (the point being not to win, but like in any koan, to contemplate what the win means)
mircea_popescu: ~longest~
asciilifeform: longest.
asciilifeform assumed 'platforms' include all known cpu archs
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: i was (in retrospect, mistakenly) taking an "observable" approach to "same thing"
decimation: supposedly gcc was made intentionally obscure so that stallman can use it as a crowbar
asciilifeform: for your puzzle, famous example - http://code.google.com/p/corkami << grep for 'polyglot'
assbot: corkami - Reverse engineering & visual documentations - Google Project Hosting
asciilifeform: decimation: crowbar ?
decimation: people just copy & paste the whole thing with GPL to all platforms
asciilifeform: versus what ?
decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=24-01-2014#458755 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 24-01-2014 22:15:54; nubbins`: http://news.slashdot.org/story/14/01/24/1838241/fsfs-richard-stallman-calls-llvm-a-terrible-setback
decimation: "The existence of LLVM is a terrible setback for our community precisely because it is not copylefted and can be used as the basis for nonfree compilers — so that all contribution to LLVM directly helps proprietary software as much as it helps us.'" ☟︎
asciilifeform: it was a terrible setback, though not for the reasons herr stallman gives
asciilifeform: because http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-08-2014#815988 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 03:30:44; asciilifeform: the wider the conceptual gap between what programmer sees, and what machine physically does - the more room for turdage - whether of the constructed or accidental kind.
decimation: asciilifeform: because better compiler = more people thinking they don't have to understand what the machine is doing?
asciilifeform: decimation: when 'better compiler' sits on 'same old cpu' - yes
decimation: Sounds legit. kinda like the existence of google translate is given as a reason not to learn another language
mircea_popescu: uh no it's not
mircea_popescu: it's a good entrypoint
asciilifeform: it's such a bad entry point that it probably encourages folks to study languages.
decimation: yeah, I agree. for me, it's motivating when I see how shitty its output looks, and it makes me want to translate more
asciilifeform: showcases how little the 'dictionary approach' gives.
decimation: now with idioms!
asciilifeform: back to subject - imho btc client is 'safety critical code' - but none of the existing implementations rise to even the most basic standard for such.
decimation: asciilifeform: do you mean to separate "btc client" from "btc node"?
asciilifeform: that being - that someone, somewhere, is willing to answer with his arse for what every character in the code actually causes the hardware to do.
asciilifeform: node.
asciilifeform is in the process of meeting this standard for a different application, and it is very labour-intensive. but necessary.
asciilifeform: just as with the discovery of ionizing radiation, people suffer needlessly because they 'intuitively' believe that invisible thing can't kill them
asciilifeform: somehow everyone understands that parachute, airplane, etc. have to be designed in certain ways - but mention programs? and 'you're a nut'
decimation: or inversely they believe that it's everywhere and out to get them.
asciilifeform: entropy, at least, -is- always out to get you.
asciilifeform: pick an arbitrary bit in memory image of 'bitcoind.'
asciilifeform: flip.
asciilifeform: contest / student exercise - find the most interesting one.
asciilifeform: your choice of cpu.
decimation: next step: find out how to flip that bit in said machine running with crap-o-soft os
asciilifeform: not even speaking of enemy action here
asciilifeform: just the now-ubiquitous non-error-correcting memory.
decimation: probably the majority of btc nodes run non-ecc ram
asciilifeform: example:
asciilifeform: !s bitsquatting
assbot: 0 results for 'bitsquatting' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=bitsquatting
asciilifeform: ;;google bitsquatting
gribble: Bitsquatting: DNS Hijacking without exploitation - dinaburg.org: <http://dinaburg.org/bitsquatting.html>; Bitsquatting - [media.blackhat.com] - Audio and Video from Black Hat: <https://media.blackhat.com/bh-us-11/Dinaburg/BH_US_11_Dinaburg_Bitsquatting_WP.pdf>; Examining the Bitsquatting Attack Surface - Cisco Blog: <http://blogs.cisco.com/wp-content/uploads/Schultz- (1 more message)
decimation: the fun version of this would be to squat on a domain predicted to be used by a popular bot
asciilifeform might have confessed before - is running 7+ yr. old hardware, because non-intel ECC hardware has become virtually unobtainable
decimation has an HP amd-based 'microserver' with ecc ram
asciilifeform: decimation: popular bot << no need for 'bitsquat' here. most of the clever sort of botnet use domains generated weekly, based on time of day. but, clever folks also use rsa signatures for payload auth.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8650 @ 0.00085345 = 7.3823 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: asciilifeform: wouldn't there be an "id trail" from the registrar to the bot herder?
asciilifeform: decimation: at least a few registrars take btc and don't ask too many questions
decimation: even with payload crypto it would be interesting to watch the incoming packets
asciilifeform: decimation: you can watch all you like - run a 'tor' exit.
decimation does not want to become a zek
asciilifeform: decimation: if you have a strict isp, do it in one of those 'nature preserves' where it is officially encouraged (e.g. 'amazon ec2')
asciilifeform: but must understand, this is likely a popular 'sport' and anything you see - will have been seen by plenty of others
decimation: perhaps I could change the bitcoin addresses to something friendly :) http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-01-2014#435478 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 03-01-2014 03:15:35; asciilifeform: there are tor exits silently pumping ascii through 'sed' or the like, slipping 'friendly' btc addrs in place of originals.
asciilifeform: must assume this happens, whether 'tor' or simply playful isp / backbone operator
asciilifeform: see also earlier discussion of swallowing rsa signatures of people you don't know
asciilifeform: same applies here
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9425 @ 0.00084908 = 8.0026 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3846 @ 0.00084905 = 3.2654 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> that being - that someone, somewhere, is willing to answer with his arse for what every character in the code actually causes the hardware to do. <<< this is only meaningful in a centralist approach.
mircea_popescu: we're decentralized over here.
mircea_popescu: difference being, between how a soviet rocket works and how a school of salmon works.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18372 @ 0.00084825 = 15.584 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4028 @ 0.00084497 = 3.4035 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: thing is - these salmon want - a rocket. and so will have to do some things they're unaccustomed to.
asciilifeform: while remaining salmon, sure.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18869 @ 0.00084497 = 15.9437 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: The great hazard of being salmon though is being recognized as to delicious to simply render as biodiesel by every living thing inclined to pescitarian consumption
cazalla: well, they do swim against the current
ben_vulpes: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/26h3o8/btcd_beta_announcement/chub4sp << forks are great yo quit bitching
assbot: midmagic comments on Btcd Beta Announcement
ben_vulpes: forks are how bitcoin-core dies. quit burning fuel trying to prevent the inevitable.
ben_vulpes: "Bitcoind core itself of course mostly tried to accept both forks and let the stronger one win." << sounds like the sort of thing a "core" "dev team" should really address - maximum fork size < utxos? mhm.
ben_vulpes: " My dislike of other mining nodes is a consequence of directly correlated forking dangers of alternative mining code, and I think we both know that." << one of these days i'm going to get left behind as reward for my courtesy of loyalty to the power rangers i can feel it coming but maybe if i complain a lot in public maybe the inevitable won't happen
ben_vulpes: "I respectfully question how you can authoritatively champion mining code written primarily in another language entirely." << because fuck the reference implementations.
ben_vulpes: evening vex
Vexual: 'evening good sir
ben_vulpes: great logs tonight
ben_vulpes applauds
ben_vulpes: top notch
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes how's the coffee ?
punkman: dobro jutro
Vexual: hi punk
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15800 @ 0.00084497 = 13.3505 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8076 @ 0.0008495 = 6.8606 BTC [+]
punkman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eco4z98nIQY
assbot: Parov Stelar - Booty Swing - YouTube
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 503.06, Best ask: 504.73, Bid-ask spread: 1.67000, Last trade: 504.0, 24 hour volume: 7779.59236845, 24 hour low: 501.25, 24 hour high: 514.98, 24 hour vwap: 507.673992263
BingoBoingo: %v
atcbot: [X-BT VWAP] Bid: 175 Ask: 221 Last Price: 175 30d-Vol: 1.64M 30d-High: 250 30d-Low: 170 30d-VWAP: 197
BingoBoingo: %t
atcbot: [X-BT] Bid: 175 Ask: 221 Last Price: 175 24h-Vol: 0k High: N/A Low: N/A VWAP: N/A
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.23999999 = 0.72 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: looks like conformal co. passed the 'test.' << with flying colours!
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: church (evidently in some other piece, forget which) likens the vc circus to the process whereby american 'pop musicians' are industrially manufactured by, among other outfits, disney corp. << sounds aboot like http://contravex.com/2014/07/31/y-combinator-the-american-idol-of-venture-capital/ but less original
assbot: Y Combinator: The American Idol of Venture Capital | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
pete_dushenski: <ben_vulpes> also: if it ain't about money i go/nowhere i'm nailed to the floor << too good!
BingoBoingo: http://www.coindesk.com/charlie-shrem-hopes-walk-free-guilty-plea-deal/
assbot: Charlie Shrem Hopes to Walk Free After Guilty Plea Deal
pete_dushenski: https://twitter.com/pete_dushenski/status/505534170916225024
assbot: Mr. /CharlieShrem, in taking it in the pooper like so http://t.co/qZe3na3Zd7 only proved his mousy illiteracy http://t.co/556Zm8Lku4
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: you win
pete_dushenski: this round
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Win what?
pete_dushenski: the marbles
Vexual: your link post arrived first
pete_dushenski: https://twitter.com/pete_dushenski/status/505377483798368256
assbot: German publishing house Heise showing how modern Journalism is done: OpenPGP Keys for all their journalists. http://t.co/DVwZQpOrnk (ger)
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/of-mendacity-mold-bugs-and-other-things/#comment-106873 >> lmao check out douchecanoe << ;-)
assbot: Of mendacity, mold, bugs and other things. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
pete_dushenski: Vexual: o hey
pete_dushenski: so sydney...
pete_dushenski: hipster spots are fine, but classics are better
Vexual: i'll assume you've been drinking all the martinis, and have or want a girl or boy on your arm
pete_dushenski: well… have. and yes.
pete_dushenski: more looking for something unique
Vexual: get up pearly and catch the ferry to manly where youll find doyles on the wharf, gesture to the bacon and eggs
Vexual: find chinatown for lunch, dixon house has a foodcourt, you'll be smoked out with burning meat and spices, jostle for a seat with the asian kids, feels like hongkong
pete_dushenski: http://www.tripadvisor.ca/Restaurant_Review-g552124-d949190-Reviews-Doyles_on_the_Wharf-Watsons_Bay_Woollahra_Greater_Sydney_New_South_Wales.html << this one?
assbot: Doyles on the Wharf Restaurant Reviews, Watsons Bay, Australia - TripAdvisor
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9424 @ 0.00085299 = 8.0386 BTC [+] {2}
Vexual: prolly
pete_dushenski: http://www.tripadvisor.ca/Restaurant_Review-g255060-d5084700-Reviews-Dixon_House_Food_Court-Sydney_New_South_Wales.html
assbot: Dixon House Food Court Restaurant Reviews, Sydney, Australia - TripAdvisor
pete_dushenski: aite
pete_dushenski: so far so good.
Vexual: at night, head to the rocks, theres a german spot there, 2 litre beers and bratwurst and snitzel
Vexual: old cobbled streets, these days with lights
Vexual: then theres a jazz spot a stumble away, where you can drink all the martinis
Vexual: they all have halal options, and if you dont get jazz, they play blues
cazalla: check out "the block" at redfern
pete_dushenski: yum.
cazalla: Vexual will vouch it's tops
pete_dushenski: lolk
Vexual: gentrified by hipsters these days
pete_dushenski: the block is the aboriginal thing?
pete_dushenski: http://www.sbs.com.au/theblock/diane.html#/diane
assbot: Diane Whittaker interview The Block: Stories from a Meeting Place SBS Redfern Interactive Documentary
Vexual: youll also find cafes, tech startups, and old gangsters
Vexual: when an aboriginal kid died at police hands they rioted with vengence
pete_dushenski: woa
pete_dushenski: we're not staying far from there
Vexual: dont high five any cops
pete_dushenski: we're just at the south tip of hyde park
pete_dushenski: unless the cops high five me...
Vexual: :) it's all good
cazalla: redfern isn't what it was so don't worry too much
Vexual: when are you going?
Vexual: ive excluded dinner spots over 2btc with waiting lists
pete_dushenski: december
cazalla: drop bears in season
Vexual: sydney is hot in december
pete_dushenski: lol so i hear
Vexual: melb might be hotter?
cazalla: not unless heatwave
Vexual: if you wanna go 5 star you vould try quay
pete_dushenski: historical averages have melbourne 5-10C warmer
pete_dushenski: quay looks seriously premium
cazalla: melb is pretty much the same temp as sydney
cazalla: winters are a little colder here, i've lived in sydney (maroubra) and that's the only difference, anecdotal of course
Vexual: wha urbanspoon wont tell you is the cigar list is epic and girls should dress slutty
cazalla: tbh i'd fuck sydney/melbourne off and go to tassie
Vexual: er sexy
Vexual: foodies paradise
pete_dushenski: “All right, all right!” the man yelled, throwing down his weapon. “I give up, cop! I confess: I took the bitcoins.”
pete_dushenski: “Why’d you do it?” I asked, as I slapped a pair of Oikos™ Greek Yogurt Presents Handcuffs® on the guy.
pete_dushenski: “Because I was afraid.”
Vexual: king island cheese
pete_dushenski: who doesn't like a fine cheese?
Vexual: not i
pete_dushenski: ;;google tassie
gribble: Tassie - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tassie>; The Silver Tassie (play) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Silver_Tassie_(play)>; Urban Dictionary: Tassie: <http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Tassie>
cazalla: bruny island cheese nicer
Vexual: ooh
Vexual: never tried
pete_dushenski: a yes. tasmania.
cazalla: Vexual http://www.brunyislandcheese.com.au
assbot: Bruny Island Cheese :: home
Vexual: goo in pinot and vine leaves? yes please
pete_dushenski: just looking up ferries from melbourne to tassie: 10.5 hours!
Vexual: your rabbits prolly command a higher price in tassie, people apprecieate good meat down there
cazalla: pete_dushenski, bring you own food if you ever take spirit of tasmania
cazalla: Vexual, i wonder if i can bring them in
pete_dushenski: plus bruny island's shop is clear on the other side of the island from devonport
pete_dushenski: http://www.newyorker.com/humor/daily-shouts/l-p-d-libertarian-police-department
assbot: L.P.D.: Libertarian Police Department - The New Yorker
cazalla: you can always fly to hobart
Vexual: cazalla, they prolly already have rabbits there
cazalla: Vexual, they do, a breeder i bought a british giant from drove all the way to tassie to get them from a woman that breeds them there
cazalla: taking out might be fine, nfi on bringing them in, they went through all our shit when taking the car across on the boat
Vexual: anyone vauum packing them and flying them to resturants?
Vexual: yeah eat em and get new ones
cazalla: dunno, i did read the industry is dead, something like 100 farms reduced to 2 due to costs
Vexual: theres costs, and theres value
cazalla: i think it's due to calici and costs of vax
cazalla: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GmAGX9J3HlE
assbot: Rabbit meat farms disappear due to virus and costs - YouTube
Vexual: i guess you dont have that problem in your backyard
cazalla: not yet
Vexual: well it couldnt get in
Vexual: but you know about intensive farming
Vexual: a terrier run around the paddock should do the same as suburbia
Vexual: put your house in the middle
Vexual: get some plum trees and do plum rabbit
cazalla: that sounds yum
cazalla: when we move, i want to build some type of enclosure so they can run around and effectively be wild
Vexual: ).05bc, air express
cazalla: i sell you?
Vexual: learn bees too
Vexual: yeah ill buy
cazalla: not worth my time at .05
Vexual: yeah, but in time
cazalla: i planned to do bees in the spring but i'm putting it off until we move, i can't adhere to the regulations they set for doing it here
Vexual: my butcher has rabbit, and i know the value, im talking of value adding
cazalla: how much do they charge?
Vexual: i think its just south of 10 bucks a kilo
cazalla: that's cheap, prob intensively farmed
Vexual: and thats a long transport
Vexual: how big does your freerange zone have to be before you can call them wild?
punkman: wild doesnt have zone
cazalla: i figured like 1/4 acre or something
punkman: you ever try wild hare?
Vexual: :) some of these cattle stations could call their beef wild
cazalla: punkman, no but i'd like to
Vexual: never tried hare
cazalla: red meat yeah?
punkman: yeah all dark meat
Vexual: arent they just big rabbits?
Vexual: oh
cazalla: nah they are totally difference
cazalla: different even
punkman: I'm not really sure about the taxonomy
punkman: but they are considered a delicacy around here, cuz we ate them all
Vexual: lol
Vexual: there you go caz, big fat hares t whever punk is ☟︎
Vexual: you'll prolly get a fucking government grant
cazalla: it's an idea, they aren't prone to calici or myx if memory serves
punkman: haven't heard of anyone farming them
punkman: they don't like a crowd
Vexual: terriers will keep em lean
Vexual: and they wont dig out
Vexual: cheap ammo for harvest:wild
Vexual: thats less like fraud than spoofing your bitcoin client version
pete_dushenski: ;;rate ben_vulpes 3 runs van-ads live from the 504
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user ben_vulpes has changed from 1 to 3.
pete_dushenski: ey looks like stephane dun approved of my translation. i'll take it!
pete_dushenski: http://contravex.com/2014/08/26/infosec-education-because-stephane-bortzmeyer-is-lazy-and-im-not/#comment-7884
assbot: InfoSec Education: Because Stphane Bortzmeyer Is Lazy. And I’m Not. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski
Vexual: lowenbrau for bratwurst the basement for jazz
Naphex: http://i.imgur.com/gDohTUB.png - I call this artistic chart, "Saved By The Cache" :)
Vexual: oh, and just across the road from the asian place is the markey where you can find cheap electronics and aussie souveneir tshirts with vulgar slogans, 3 for 10
pete_dushenski: Vexual: nice. ty.
cazalla: all made in china
cazalla: this the markets Vexual?
Vexual: i think the kangaroo scrotum coin purses are made in oz, but largely, yes
pete_dushenski: time for sleeps. g'night b-a!
Vexual: Naphex: what site? looks similar to "spam fail"
BingoBoingo: http://www.theonion.com/articles/were-going-to-enjoy-this-cocainefueled-mason-jar-r,36779/
assbot: Were Going To Enjoy This Cocaine-Fueled Mason Jar Rocket Ride For As Long As It Lasts | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
BingoBoingo: http://www.theonion.com/articles/researchers-panda-faked-pregnancy-to-get-more-bamb,36809/
assbot: Researchers: Panda Faked Pregnancy To Get More Bamboo | The Onion - America's Finest News Source
Vexual: nothing quite like the onion
BingoBoingo: Better than the Times
Vexual: full fucking effect
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11250 @ 0.00085477 = 9.6162 BTC [+] {2}
Vexual: only chinese vets could claim a panda faked a pregnancy
Vexual: the actual pregnat panda, the one that pissed on the stich has been hung
Vexual: ;;google erowid mason jar
gribble: Erowid Psychoactive Vaults : Bong & Pipe FAQ: <https://www.erowid.org/psychoactives/faqs/faq_bong_pipe.shtml>; Erowid Mushroom Vaults : Cultivation Tips: <https://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_cultivation17.shtml>; Erowid Psilocybin Mushroom Vault : Storage in CO2: <https://www.erowid.org/plants/mushrooms/mushrooms_info3.shtml>
Vexual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAOR6ib95kQ
Vexual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2CQLAhNlbfQ reverse cronology and the price of safrole
kakobrekla: <punkman> dobro jutro < lol what got into you
punkman: feeling balkan today
Vexual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4D2qcbu26gs
kakobrekla: well dobro jutro to you too ;)
Vexual: what time is it there kako?
kakobrekla: 12.27
Vexual: bacon or bacon?
kakobrekla: spam
Vexual: my heart
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1229 @ 0.00085473 = 1.0505 BTC [-]
cazalla: http://nationalreport.net/15-year-old-swatted-domestic-terrorism/
assbot: 15 Year Old Who "SWATTED" Gamer Convicted Of Domestic Terrorism; 25 Years To Life In Federal Prison - National Report | National Report
cazalla: i guess he wasn't behind 7 proxies
punkman: http://nationalreport.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/swatted.png
Vexual: i dunno why he's crying, outcomes coulda been worse
punkman: maybe they are tired of all the swatting
kakobrekla: coulda been wrose?
kakobrekla: worse*
kakobrekla: like what, life in prison?
punkman: http://stopmasturbationnow.org/lexicon/merriam-webster-adds-anti-masturbation-word-to-their-dictionary-fapstinence/
assbot: Merriam-Webster Adds Anti-Masturbation Word to Their Dictionary : FAPSTINENCE | Stop Masturbation Now
cazalla: it's fake btw
Vexual: its a job
cazalla: not that, the swatting article
Vexual: yeah, they might have told him about the"fucking with the police" ward
kakobrekla: what is this another onion ?
Vexual: everythings onion
cazalla: yeah, sorry kakobrekla, Vexual is right
Vexual: not quite
Vexual: but the onion does serve some truth with that bullshit flavour you love
cazalla: !s nationalreport.net
assbot: 1 results for 'nationalreport.net' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=nationalreport.net
BingoBoingo: kakobrekla: National Report is like the Onion only stupider. Basically just made up stories.
jurov: ;;later tell MolokoDesk if tao_jones has working replacement of ;;calc I am all for having it here
gribble: The operation succeeded.
RagnarDanneskjol: yes, tao has a number of calc functions... some are listed here.. there are others
RagnarDanneskjol: http://bit.ly/1a6QBcq
assbot: Tao_Jones Quickstart
RagnarDanneskjol: I have all the modules sitting around somewhere - will get them to you this weekend
kakobrekla: BingoBoingo sounded like texas to me
Vexual: .bait
BingoBoingo: ;;bait
gribble: Error: "bait" is not a valid command.
BingoBoingo: !bait
kakobrekla: just use the fly fishing rod.
BingoBoingo: !t m s.limbs
assbot: Quest for vision is a great blessing.
Vexual: either was my wrist hurts
Vexual: i see ykyo there lurking
Vexual: dya think he might develop a sense of humour?
fluffypony: !up csshih
fluffypony: ;;ident
gribble: Nick 'fluffypony', with hostmask 'fluffypony!~fluffypon@coreteam.monero.cc', is not identified.
fluffypony: oh
Vexual: missgivings aside theres lessons unleant
fluffypony: !up csshih
fluffypony: csshih: ping
csshih: fluffypony, hi
Vexual: !down fluffy pony
Vexual: bwahah
fluffypony: csshih: question - since my one SC51 has grown legs, I'm looking at replacing them with the SC52d. any thoughts? what's the alternative for AA singles?
csshih: zebralight dominates in that category imo
csshih: you looking for high-ish cri?
fluffypony: yeah
fluffypony: it's definitely the brightest
Vexual: grown legs? what do your dogs do?
fluffypony: and 4 day run time at 2.1 Lm is insane
fluffypony: Vexual: we're talking about flashlights, not dogs :-P
Vexual: grown legs means gone?
fluffypony: yes
Vexual: presumably stolen
fluffypony: yeah I would imagine so
Vexual: u might need something with d's
Vexual: and a lens that makes ophtamologists rub their hands ith glee
kakobrekla: !up Ukyo
kakobrekla: so how come you are still here?
Vexual: lol anus
Vexual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TVAetFthS9Y
jurov: <mircea_popescu> [02:52:59] but srlsy jurov, it looks neat and is quite visually appealing. << hahaha. actually, we kept original design done by scrat
kakobrekla: did you have another design done?
kakobrekla: ;;tslb
gribble: Time since last block: 35 minutes and 50 seconds
Vexual: ;;later tell ben_vulpes http://www.supremenewyork.com/interviews/lee_perry
gribble: The operation succeeded.
Vexual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ju-Hedh8Tdw
jurov: kakobrekla, only tuned logo so far
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3312 @ 0.00052471 = 1.7378 BTC [-] {32}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2585 @ 0.00051042 = 1.3194 BTC [-] {7}
kakobrekla: http://www.thecoinsman.com/2014/08/bitcoin/inside-one-worlds-largest-bitcoin-mines/
assbot: Inside one of the world's largest bitcoin mines - The CoinsmanThe Coinsman
kakobrekla: different from the one last time
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21300 @ 0.00085329 = 18.1751 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] [PAID] 9.57940004 BTC to 1`149`988 shares, 833 satoshi per share
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 1.59377130 BTC to 15`114 shares, 10545 satoshi per share
mod6: %tslb
atcbot: Time Since Last ATC Block: 1 hour(s), 0 minutes
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: re: 'coinbase insurance' post - little story. recently i had occasion to rent a box at a bank (storage of various paperwork for firm.) the contract was a hilarious read. bank only insures a box for up to 25k usd. and specifically excludes damage from robbery, fire, water... virtually anything. ☟︎☟︎
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell vexual lee scratch perry - what a guy.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
FabianB: $mpexstatus
empyex: FabianB: Proxies: mpex.ws mpex.bz mpex.co mpex.biz mpex.coinbr.com Current MPEx GPG-Key-ID: 02DD2D91
empyex: FabianB: MPEx-Status: mpex.ws (805 milliseconds), mpex.bz (606 milliseconds), mpex.co (813 milliseconds), mpex.biz (584 milliseconds), mpex.coinbr.com (error)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 70 @ 0.01170512 = 0.8194 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 24 @ 0.0217227 = 0.5213 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: !t l s.mpoe
assbot: The eagle never lost so much time as when he submitted to learn from the crow.
ben_vulpes: !l m s.mpoe
assbot: Last trade for S.MPOE on MPEX was at 0.00085329 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: the insureds will always complain about inadequate coverage, and the insurers will always complain about social inflation.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7700 @ 0.00085469 = 6.5811 BTC [+]
The20YearIRCloud: safe deposit boxes only have the safety of being in a somewhat controlled environment
The20YearIRCloud: There's a town close to me that once every year auctions off 250-350 safe deposit box contents, you bid per box and don't know what is in them. All are seized from people who either didn't pay up or forgot about em
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 69 @ 0.01069994 = 0.7383 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25300 @ 0.00085665 = 21.6732 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: re: safe deposit box << My bank's terms say: "We will not have any liability to you or any third party for incidental or consequential damages. If an arbitration proceeding is commenced, evidence that tends to prove that something was left in the Box on last authorized entry, and was found to be missing on the next entry, will not create a presumption that it was lost because we were negligent, intentional did anything wrong or
decimation: failed to exercise ordinary care. Nor will we be required to prove that the loss was not our fault."
decimation: What has happened to banking in the US is parallel to the "substitution calculations" done by usg for inflation - ie a ground beef patty with filler is the same as a well-cooked steak.
decimation: chetty: do you have any amusing links for us?
chetty: decimation, my net was down, I am behind on my reading today
decimation: chetty: no problem, I always look forward to the interesting nuggets you have on offer
chetty: <decimation> well the good part is I got a lot of work done on Eulora today :)
asciilifeform: decimation: something was left in the Box on last authorized entry, and was found to be missing on the next entry, will not create a presumption that it was lost << conclusion: bury your goods in the forest. fuck bank.
asciilifeform: even ignoring the traditional devil of 'fdr gold confiscatorwagen' (tm) - bank essentially gives itself permission to steal whenever.
The20YearIRCloud: thus why i hate the idea of safe deposit boxes
The20YearIRCloud: my preference would still be a safe sunk into a concrete wall in a basement room that can't be easily accessed
asciilifeform: The20YearIRCloud: bad idea. in many quite probable scenarios, one loses access to 'own' property first.
asciilifeform: but, as every treatise on the subject invariably begins with, first try to understand what is to be hidden - and from whom ☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎
The20YearIRCloud: So what's the best option?
The20YearIRCloud: air/watertight container in nowhere?
asciilifeform: again - depends on answer to above question
asciilifeform: (please don't answer it here!)
The20YearIRCloud: Let
The20YearIRCloud: Let's say you have a honus wagner card
The20YearIRCloud: in an airtight holder
decimation: The20YearIRCloud: you own properties right? how many potential hidey-holes are there?
asciilifeform: again, depends not only on the 'what' but 'from whom'
The20YearIRCloud: Plenty , but the problem there becomes the idea of how you access it in a time of emergency should it ever be needed
The20YearIRCloud: Granted nothing I own has substantial value
decimation: asciilifeform: unfortunately if the "from whom" is usg in its many forms, the answer is largely: nowhere
The20YearIRCloud: One good thing with modern technology is the premise of doing waht they did in breaking bad and putting a 55 gallon drum in the middle of nowhere and record GPS locations
chetty: if you own a bit of property (not really but thats another story) there is a paper trail that shows it ...how you gonna hide anything?
The20YearIRCloud: Like decimation said, it depends on who you're hiding it from
asciilifeform: if enemy knows you have $goodie, and you are captured - might as well mail it in to the crown treasury now - avoid burned starfish later
The20YearIRCloud: Yeah
decimation: us persons simply have no access to 'allodial title', not even as a rental
The20YearIRCloud: i look to what people did during the yugoslovian war for modern examples of waht , and what not to do
The20YearIRCloud: There are states that are working towards true land ownership
asciilifeform: also understand why archaeologists still turn up buried jars of, e.g, roman gold.
The20YearIRCloud: ND and WY i think are two states that allow a person to buy absolute land, with no further taxes involved outside of day of sale, with no government recourse
asciilifeform: treasure - is usually a result of folks who bit the dust without ever getting to make use of the $goodies.
decimation: The20YearIRCloud: generally those states (like nevada) use the words "allodial title" to mean "pre-pay your land tax"
The20YearIRCloud: And in some cases, those states are pretty hands-off when it comes to private property
asciilifeform: forget present-day law. the pertinent question is 'who knows that you have $object'
The20YearIRCloud: That's likely always the best defense
decimation: The20YearIRCloud: When I say "allodial title" I mean something like having the right to arrest anyone - including government employees - on your property
The20YearIRCloud: ah
asciilifeform: very few physical objects are worth the cost of raising an army to keep arbitrarily large horde of orcs away
asciilifeform: if you own such an object, consider liquidating it and using the proceeds to buy passage to neutral country of your choice
BingoBoingo: !b 2 ✂︎
asciilifeform: and buy the obligatory set of new passports / favours
asciilifeform: but if you must:
asciilifeform: here's a recipe i shared with al schwartz once
chetty: <asciilifeform> if you own such an object, consider liquidating it and using the proceeds to buy passage to neutral country of your choice//++
asciilifeform: build a capsule, of the smallest adequate size (al suggested inconel or hastalloy for the material. not cheap - but then again, it'll be a small fraction of the total cost of project)
asciilifeform: capsule must have positive buoyancy when you're done filling it
asciilifeform: weld it shut.
asciilifeform: attach anchor, with sonophone-triggered explosive bolt on chain.
asciilifeform: sink in international waters, record position.
asciilifeform: sonophone trigger should only answer (with 'pop' of anchor chain) in response to key.
decimation: asciilifeform: re: raising an army: The scale of humanity today is such that being a 'land baron' is almost impossible. Consider Mr. Yarvin's quote-of-a-quote: " As the laws of King Ine of Wessex famously put it: We use the term "thieves" if the number of men does not exceed seven, and "brigands" for a number between seven and thirty-five. Anything beyond this is an "army."
asciilifeform: keep key in head.
decimation: hope bolt works after time passes
asciilifeform: i don't know who al might've shared the recipe with, but u.s. navy funded almost exactly this scheme as a mega-project a few years ago.
decimation: when the population is several orders of magnitude less dense, "me and my army say so" is a more realistic source of power
asciilifeform: perhaps it was an obvious idea.
The20YearIRCloud: how do you use a signal that will penetrate the water?
decimation: sound waves can go thousands of miles underwater
asciilifeform: The20YearIRCloud: hydrophone on wire.
asciilifeform: lower it to the thermocline.
The20YearIRCloud: i guess i missed hydrophone part
Namworld: So I was browsing wikipedia for fun, when I found something funny. Can you spot it? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nocturnal_animals
assbot: List of nocturnal animals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
asciilifeform: 'programmer.'
asciilifeform guessed
asciilifeform: !s night old enemy
assbot: 1 results for 'night old enemy' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=night+old+enemy
Namworld: eheh
asciilifeform for the record doesn't own anything worth the cost of ocean capsule.
asciilifeform but likes the idea anyway. a few km down in sea is the closes thing nature gives us, afaik, to a 'trap door function' for physical goodies.
asciilifeform: make sure capsule has enough excess buoyancy when triggered to rip itself out of the crud that sunken objects inevitably embed themselves in over time.
asciilifeform: also ensure that the hidey-hole can be found without recourse to satellite navigation.
asciilifeform: ^ might be the hardest part
decimation: asciilifeform: what about "find granitic megalith (like Yosemite), build hut, dissolve deep hole using HF, then fill with concrete?
asciilifeform: drilling a hole creates a very distinct density anomaly that ground-penetrating radar sets (ask a construction co. that deals with underground pipes) readily turns up.
asciilifeform: regardless of what you fill it with later - will read differently from natural rock.
decimation: good point. Notwithstanding the logistics issues. The advantage to your sea-vault is that it could be (in theory) sunk with submarine, which would probably be difficult for any advanced gov't to track.
asciilifeform: no need to buy a submarine
asciilifeform: small sailboat would suffice.
asciilifeform: to deploy device, just chuck it overboard.
decimation: asciilifeform: agreed, modulo lack of interest in being followed, etc
asciilifeform: if you have enemies who will follow your sailboat around in the atlantic, you have other problems that must be dealt with first.
asciilifeform: capsule can also be flown to its resting place.
decimation: like a sono-buoy
asciilifeform: (building a device that can fly back - exercise for alert reader.)
jurov: um.. but with increasing amount of ocean trash, won't you have a problem to locate the capsule once it surfaces from $ kilometers?
asciilifeform: jurov: include beacon.
asciilifeform: (triggered on anchor release, naturally.)
decimation: or sonar beacon
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2508 @ 0.00085583 = 2.1464 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: don't drop the treasure near 'SOSUS'
decimation: which raises the question, is a reasonable hydroarray a feasible addition to said small sailboat?
asciilifeform: no need for this. a simple strobe light should suffice for night search.
asciilifeform: (after capsule pops to the surface)
decimation: true, especially with cheap 'night vision' gear
asciilifeform: if you have an object that is worth, say, 100k to hide and retrieve, go ahead and follow recipe. but also consider the easier 'sell it and run with the money'
decimation: I suppose if the purpose in hiding the object is simply to escape the gulag, it would be better to start planning your escape now
asciilifeform: i later learned that v. n. chelomei (famous soviet rocket designer) proposed the placement of atomic bombs near u.s. east costs using a scheme much like this. (official story - it was vetoed as barbaric) ☟︎
asciilifeform: by admiralty
asciilifeform: 'we fight like men, not thieves in the night'
decimation: better yet an undersea missile in a tube
asciilifeform: *coasts
asciilifeform: if i recall, he also suggested they be placed in the 'great lakes'
asciilifeform: with idea being, no need to bring them to surface before firing
decimation: in retrospect that kind of "proposal" sounds more like a 'limited hangout' kind of operation
asciilifeform: (at the time, u.s. had industry, and a good portion of it was in that region)
decimation: I suppose if they were close enough to cities that would be feasible
jurov: afaik nukes need periodic maintenance.. would it really be feasible to do it on seabed every so often?
asciilifeform suspects that proposal was vetoed as laughable because the nukes in russian embassies make it redundant.
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I was about to point that out, it would be much simpler to rent a 'safehouse' and fill with nukes
asciilifeform: jurov: tritium booster capsule is good for ~20 yrs.
asciilifeform: the point of the proposal, according to legend, was to specifically make use of the water.
asciilifeform: not simply as a hiding place, but as the weapon
decimation: ah, water = fusion fuel
asciilifeform: no
asciilifeform: as steam, to wash the factories with.
asciilifeform: the americans, for some reason unknown to me, pre-empted this project by destroying own industry.
asciilifeform: (why? ask them)
asciilifeform: back to topic - if you really must hide physical objects, read about how kgb and gru hid arms caches in their opponents' territories.
asciilifeform: note that neither 'gps' nor its soviet equivalent existed at the time.
Apocalyptic: "read about how kgb and gru hid arms caches in their opponents' territories." // any particular book in mind ?
decimation: you quoted a story about how they recruited 'agents' in those territories?
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: there's an account in english-language 'the sword and the shield' (mitrokhin) of one swiss cache that was dug up when he tipped off the local authorities.
asciilifeform: if you somehow learn where one is - don't touch it. they were all mined.
Apocalyptic: ty, will look that up
asciilifeform: worth reading solely for the 'geocaching' craft.
asciilifeform: (i.e., how to bury, given that you will only be able to find the location again using geographical clues - and trees, buildings, etc. can disappear over the decades)
asciilifeform: but really this is one of those 'games where the winning move is not to play.'
asciilifeform: if you are reading this - it is almost certainly a terrible use of your time. ☟︎
decimation: re: underwater nuke << use tried, worked well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y53vDnNPiA4
assbot: Wahoo and Umbrella - Filmmaker recounts nuclear test - YouTube
decimation: s/use/usg/
decimation: The intention might have been exactly what that video shows: wash away all the people in the city, then occupy
asciilifeform: usg also had, in that period, a fixation with gigantic naval battles
asciilifeform: (when 'war game' simulations revealed that all american ships would perish within hours, they started rigging the 'games')
Apocalyptic: <asciilifeform> if you are reading this - it is almost certainly a terrible use of your time. // terrible as in wasted ?
asciilifeform: yes.
Apocalyptic: i've probably wasted more time on lesser occupations
asciilifeform: not just time.
asciilifeform: satan preserve you if anyone learns you had something worth using this procedure on.
Apocalyptic: oh, I see
asciilifeform: enemy will flay you and everyone you call a friend, to try to learn where it is.
Apocalyptic: It's more out of curiosity than out of potential usefull procedures I may apply in the future
asciilifeform: soviet 'treasure burial' teams have created some very interesting (if dangerous) finds for future archaeologists.
kanzure: lana sator has been doing some of that archeology already
asciilifeform: and i can hardly imagine that other nations didn't crib from their recipe.
kanzure: exploring various abandoned soviet particle accelerators, etc
kanzure: http://lana-sator.livejournal.com/
assbot: , , , ... 18+
kanzure: wha?
asciilifeform: kanzure: nah, those're plain old ruins
decimation: asciilifeform: usg nuclear bombing ships: yeah there's the famous 'nuclear attack on fleet' bomb series at the bikini atoll: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv9yS0tRFhI
assbot: Project Crossroads Nuclear tests near the Bikini Atoll - Baker Shot 1946 - YouTube
asciilifeform: anyone who wants to see these ruins - suitcase, airplane, don't wait for the scrap dealers.
asciilifeform: take a geiger along.
decimation: in vegas off the strip there is a 'nuclear testing museum: I recommend going if you find yourself there.
decimation: when I went there was a fellow there who apparently was part of the crew that would enter the underground 'cave' formed by an explosion
decimation: one such experiment: http://www.wipp.energy.gov/science/ug_lab/gnome/gnome.htm
assbot: Project GNOME - Unrelated to WIPP...but nearby
Apocalyptic: asciilifeform, on a related note what's your opinion about 'KGB: the Inside Story' by Christopher Andrew ?
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: he printed a large number of variations on 'sword & shield', most repeat themselves in a genuinely dreary way
mircea_popescu: this "'KGB: the Inside Story' by Christopher Andrew" string reminds me of the "stop sending niggers then" joke. ☟︎
asciilifeform: Apocalyptic: much of the material stolen by mitrokhin was either boring, or too juicy to print
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic do you know it ?
asciilifeform: everybody knows that one.
Apocalyptic: this looks like it was printed first, allegedly in 1990
Apocalyptic: mircea, I'm asking whether it's worth a read, I don't have nor know it
mircea_popescu: i meant the joke
Apocalyptic: I don't
mircea_popescu: cia sends mole to inflitrate kgb. this is apparently successful, but nothing of value is ever obtained.
mircea_popescu: cia sends replacement mole. this also is apparently successful... buit... again
mircea_popescu: by the 5th or so replacement there's a distinct impression with upper cia management that the soviets are like... sending complicated insider jokes over the mole wire.
mircea_popescu: finally a high level defector is taken into a manager's meeting, fed somon fume and asked politely
mircea_popescu: he confirms that yes they knew all about al of them, explains some of the insider jokes
mircea_popescu: "mr devektorovskyi, what are we to do then ?" ☟︎
mircea_popescu: "i dunno... maybe stop sending niggers ?" ☟︎
mircea_popescu: what the FUCK has some schmuck by the name cristopher to say about the inside of the kgb ?
asciilifeform: based on supposedly-actual story, where russians noticed that staples in certain passports failed to rust.
mircea_popescu: yea lol
asciilifeform: cristopher << brit. mitrokhin surrendered to the brits.
mircea_popescu: so ?
asciilifeform: muppet, who was given the job of cranking out a tabloid-grade book supposedly based on the 100kg or so of stolen paper.
mircea_popescu: "inside the genovese family, by derparian herparistarian." wtf already. no armenians in sicily.
asciilifeform: lol
mircea_popescu: anyway, one is well advised to evaluate his level of interest on such topics. if it's a passing casual worth 5k words then skimming one of these pulpy offerings is maybe fine. if serious enough to remember names, then probably skimming the original papers is a better bet
mircea_popescu: rather than reading the same "us girl next door in a sheet = roman matron" story re-written over and over 500 times.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: very few of the original papers were ever made public as such
asciilifeform: and the authenticity of the ones that were - is, naturally, questionable.
mircea_popescu: srsly when i saw you discussing indexing and searching pdf documents i thought this is what it was for - all that crap is pdf-digitized.
mircea_popescu: outside of digging through secret service archives, why the fuck would anyone put up with pdf.
asciilifeform: some. of the purported crap. yes.
asciilifeform: russians, accustomed to carrying around terabytes of scanned w4r3z for a generation, prefer 'djvu' - for which there is really no substitute.
decimation: djvu is a pretty amazing 'paper' compression tool. proprietary "paperport" works very well too
assbot: AMAZING COMPANY!
asciilifeform: (fully documented format, originally, afaik, crapped out by 'bell labs')
asciilifeform: 'djvu', even on an aged box, scrolls so quickly one almost can believe he has a microfilm viewer.
asciilifeform: a fat book takes <5 MB typically.
asciilifeform: if you have an 'ocr' system, the format allows for an searchable text 'track.'
decimation: to be fair I think there are methods of using good compression with pdf too. My main point yesterday was about searching the text, for which pdfs are not necessary. after all, if you ocr it, then it ought to exist as a .txt file
asciilifeform: afaik patent trolls succeeded in more or less exterminating acceptable compression for scanned books. djvu was devised by folks who didn't care to comply.
asciilifeform: present-day ocr is notoriously inadequate for scanned historic documents, esp. of poor quality or non-latin scripts.
asciilifeform: plus one generally wants to keep the photos.
mircea_popescu: this would have been a perfect application for ai
asciilifeform: ocr performed on 'djvu' document typically inserts an ascii text track, along with 'bounding boxes' internally
mircea_popescu: "given this string and this set of photos, find the string likelies"
asciilifeform: so document becomes quasi-searchable while viewed in the customary way
mircea_popescu: sadly... no ai.
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I agree, 'djvu' with a text-track would be a pretty good format
mircea_popescu: maybe with quantum computing.
asciilifeform: decimation: it's already in the standard
asciilifeform: modern 'neural network' ocr - at least for latin alphabet - is 99+% accurate. sadly this is not enough to dispense with the original images.
mircea_popescu: i meant "for any script"
mircea_popescu: it's MACHINE intelligence after all neh ?
mircea_popescu: this is where it should shine
asciilifeform: yes, we'd all like 'a pony.'
mircea_popescu: i'd like a fluffy one! :D
fluffypony: lol
asciilifeform: 'i even made a pony-monkey hybrid to please you! what's with all the screaming. you like monkeys, you like ponys. maybe i used too many monkeys... isn't it enough that i ruined a pony making a gift for you!'
decimation: asciilifeform: do you know of a reasonable gui tool to search and index djvu's with text?
mircea_popescu sayz sed! awk! then re-reads the gui part, ponders, gets depressed and leaves.
Apocalyptic: heh
jurov: indexing with sed/awk, rly?
ben_vulpes: jurov: *shrug*
ben_vulpes: indexing the blockchain? sed and awk!
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes what is the objection ?
decimation: mircea_popescu: sed, awk works fine if you want to search your entire corpus every time
mircea_popescu: and if you don't you can make them make an index file.
ben_vulpes: ain't none
decimation: this is true, seems like it should be a 'solved problem'. I think some implementations of 'hadoop' do exactly this
dignork: decimation: Lucene probably
mircea_popescu: decimation i think the only reason it isn't a solved problem is this sort of argument : http://contravex.com/2014/08/26/infosec-education-because-stephane-bortzmeyer-is-lazy-and-im-not/ ie "usability". once you add that fuzzy requirement smart people get bored and leave,
mircea_popescu: leaving the mess to be handled by the sort of people that make guis.
decimation: true. making a good gui is difficult and thankless work
mircea_popescu: no, it is impossible and thankless work. difficult is one thing.
mircea_popescu: but a good gui is a provab le impossibility. "make me a very hot woman that still wants to be my girlfriend instead of say that guy's"
jurov: remembering names and most used options of gnu text suite is an impossibility, too
decimation: jurov: agreed. I'm always having to consult find, grep, xargs, etc man pages
mircea_popescu: well depends how much thought you put into it
mircea_popescu: i don't readily remember the names of all the women i've been with either.
mircea_popescu: on the upside, once you get it done you can forget about it.
decimation: heh yeah, which results in sites like this: www.commandlinefu.com/
mircea_popescu: "Create a random file of a certain, and display progress along the way."
mircea_popescu: SYNTAX ERROR!
mircea_popescu: MISSING PARAMETER AFTER "certain". please read your commandlinefu documentation and try again!!11
mircea_popescu: and who the hell has cowsay installed omg.
Apocalyptic: "Random data is generated by encrypting /dev/zero" // a curious way to generate random data
jurov: i was intrigued why it isn't possible for computer to keep asking for missing pieces until the task is fully defined
jurov: "Please define `random'"
jurov: would be fund to watch its users
jurov: *fun
mircea_popescu: "random"
jurov: "Random means in no predefined order"
jurov: "Error, please retr with positive definition"
asciilifeform: 'error - not a typewriter' << actual
jurov: lp0 on fire
mircea_popescu: not a bad idea jurov
asciilifeform: lp0 on fire << saw this alive
asciilifeform: (not the message. the condition.)
asciilifeform: mis-spent youth.
asciilifeform: 'usability' << is not necessarily a nonsense word. consider the difference between the linux and bsd userland utils
asciilifeform: in the latter, considerably greater consistency of flags
asciilifeform: but yes, normally when people whine about 'usability,' they want - pony.
asciilifeform: i.e., instrument with user interface of a pencil, but somehow not the functionality of pencil.
asciilifeform: 'the only 'intuitive' interface is the tit - everything after that is learned.' ☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: ^
mircea_popescu: (the cunt also)
mircea_popescu: oddly enough.
asciilifeform: on which end.
mircea_popescu: on both ends.
mircea_popescu: dealing with the fallout is learned, but using the things is innate.
mircea_popescu: and for that matter, pencils are horribly unintuitive interfaces. think of all the great drawing in the world, and the poor user buying a pencil in the shop will draw what ? a cat ?
mircea_popescu: this old world sort of nonsense can not endure my friends! i am making a company that will revolutionize drawing!
asciilifeform: -- said herr daguerre
mircea_popescu: shit.
mircea_popescu: i just walked into that didn't .
asciilifeform: did. lol
mircea_popescu: +i
asciilifeform always found it interesting that people whine if they try to use his computer, but never think to borrow eyeglasses and then complain
asciilifeform: obligatory:
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=836
assbot: Loper OS » Programmer’s Editors, Illustrated.
asciilifeform: (moral, for the thick, is that an equivalent of the profession 'optician' does not yet exist for these machines)
asciilifeform: and may not ever exist.
mircea_popescu: dude you and your vi hate.
mircea_popescu: but actually... i find myself using nano a lot moar these days
decimation: I use nano when emacs is too heavy-handed
mircea_popescu: so mebbe there's some meat to the assertion, vi inhabits a middle that doesnt really exist
penguirker: New blog post: http://trilema.com/2014/operation-terrorstorm-oneoneeleventy/
mod6: <3 vi/m
cazalla: oh boy
cazalla: sounds like decentralised swatting
decimation: mircea_popescu: yeah your post reminds me of Mr. Yarvin's point about insulting the "protected class".
mircea_popescu: cazalla quite. costs like a bitcoin to do, too.
decimation: one wonders about the total sum of $ that usg has spent just this year searching enemies of the people
mircea_popescu: i have a glass table and an optic mouse. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: fucking hell.
mircea_popescu: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiBYM6g8Tck
assbot: Los del Rio - Macarena (Original Video) [HD] - YouTube
cazalla: i wonder what the chicks in that music video look like now
mircea_popescu: fifty year olds.
cazalla: !s newegg
assbot: 22 results for 'newegg' : http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=newegg
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=15-07-2014#756333 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 15-07-2014 16:54:16; ThickAsThieves: even newegg is bullish http://promotions.newegg.com/nepro/14-3631/images/imgs/hero1.jpg
cazalla: would it be a safe bet the reason newegg and other sites offer a discount when using bitcoin is that it's easy means of coin for usg? they can print as much $ to give discounts and the coin flows from customers -> newegg -> bitpay -> usg?
The20YearIRCloud: http://dollarvigilante.com/blog/2014/8/27/the-good-the-bad-and-the-ugly-on-galts-gulch-chile.html
assbot: The Good, The Bad and The Ugly on Galt's Gulch Chile
The20YearIRCloud: so mr berwick knew problems last year and didnt do anything?