asciilifeform: http://a4lg.com/memo/2014-12-14/seccon-2014-online-quals-crypto400.html << student exercise
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GHU4hY )
asciilifeform: (bad rsa key)
trinque hunkers down for more clim hacking
trinque: most fun I've had in years
trinque: re: writing code
asciilifeform: trinque: last time i played with clim under sbcl it was dog-slow
trinque: haven't torqued it hard enough to know yet
trinque: but the clarity
asciilifeform: i mean, even for 'hello world'
trinque: ah, no it's doing fine there
asciilifeform: trinque must be using a recent cpu..
trinque: lol yeah, doing fine with 3+ ghz and 8 cores
trinque solemnly swears not to write his own linux distro with clim-based DE in a year
trinque chants "do not give in to astonishment" as he fires up the clim listener
mircea_popescu: actually it's quite possible the eventual b-a distribution is a sort of lisp "java machine"
mircea_popescu: ie, what google's trying to do.
mircea_popescu: in other news, women and incentives in tech. http://40.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6uukgUutx1rayp8lo1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1JqDolh )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i wasted years on this. destructive dead end, because ibm pc is a turd
asciilifeform: i.e. the hardware can't be meaningfully abstracted over.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so is seeking true love.
trinque: can't build a VM for some syslisp which is then implemented later as hardware?
asciilifeform: who doesn't believe me (and why should?) can go waste years himself. like the 'movitz' folks did
mircea_popescu: nah, universal lisp bytecode!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: straight to sbcl, where this is already a thing. plain computation works fine. it's when you get to i/o that you die
mircea_popescu: universal io !
asciilifeform: 'lisp doesn't need i/o.' --my brother
mircea_popescu: if a lisp lisps in a ioless forest, has it still lisped ?
asciilifeform: (in point of fact, it doesn't even need an ALU... church numerals!!)
trinque: I'm just glad I figured out I needed to relearn programming at 28 rather than 58
trinque: asciilifeform: how should IO look? what to read?
asciilifeform: trinque: i/o in the very basic sense of talking to the framebuffer, nic, interrupt controller
asciilifeform: disk
asciilifeform: cpu cores
asciilifeform: (well, the smp control gizmo)
asciilifeform: etc.
trinque: right, so on linux I could write some bits to /dev/fb0 ; what might I go read about regarding how that's done on... would genera be a good example?
asciilifeform: trinque: there are no examples.
trinque: ah ok
asciilifeform: trinque: have you read my 'bedrock' article ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72809 @ 0.00039094 = 28.464 BTC [-] {4}
asciilifeform: trinque: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=55
assbot: Loper OS » You have made your bedrock, now lie in it. ... ( http://bit.ly/1GHYPYN )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13841 @ 0.00038678 = 5.3534 BTC [-]
trinque: asciilifeform: yes I have, and grok the gist, I think
trinque: what would network IO look like if done on a system with proper bedrock abstractions from your view?
trinque: !up gabriel_laddel
gabriel_laddel: ty
trinque: np, and hello
gabriel_laddel: so, for instance, think of the terminal you are now typing into. on a true dataflow box, it would simply be the end of a circuit (screen memory) directly linked to a circuit with the keyboard matrix decoder on the other end of it. you thus also lose the concept of ‘interrupts’ or ‘processes’. a dataflow box doesn’t need a scheduler, or an interrupt
gabriel_laddel: controller.
gabriel_laddel: -- http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1361
assbot: Loper OS » The Alert Reader. ... ( http://bit.ly/1GHZ9qt )
asciilifeform: trinque: for this one, symbolics lisp is not a bad example. the key being that ~nothing can happen~ short of the nic catching fire that would land you on any level of abstraction below lisp
asciilifeform: e.g., if a malformed packet appears, or connection breaks at any point in the process, or, or.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel has it. but in that article i was speaking of 'proper computer', not lispm.
trinque: gabriel_laddel: end of a circuit, so "circuit" is bedrock, or composed thereof?
asciilifeform: trinque: 'bedrock' for our purposes is that which if it malfunctions you physically throw it out.
trinque reads through p=1361
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: Right. I should have noted that this is an example of what "sane I/O" might look like.
trinque: what is the circuit? how do I write code which reads the current state of the terminal?
trinque: how do I shove bits into it?
asciilifeform: it is the only sane i/o. what we have now is chicken's cloaka, which pisses, shits, fucks, and lays eggs via same orifice (why not also eat with it?)
trinque: is there some data structure manifested in the lisp system which represents the state of the thing?
asciilifeform: trinque: code on dataflow processor controls switching matrix.
asciilifeform: how to represent it is up to the operator
asciilifeform: ultimately it is what your schoolteacher called an 'adjacency matrix.'
trinque: I could declare that the terminal circuit is now connected to (among other things) my circuit which logs terminal stuff?
trinque: and this declaration is...
asciilifeform: these presently exist, you can go to store and buy. called fpga.
trinque: a data structure somewhere read by the switching matrix?
asciilifeform: trinque: typically an ordinary sram
mircea_popescu: it does technicaly eat with it
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: think of it, traditional cpu ~is~ cloaka, where you pgp with the same barrel shifter and adder that you play tetris and read lolcatz with
asciilifeform: this is not the only way to build a computer.
asciilifeform: in extreme poverty of the 1950s - yes, it makes sense
asciilifeform: barely made sense in '80s
asciilifeform: (folks carrying around multiple pc notwithstanding)
asciilifeform: think of why msdos was a jewel - machine did ~one fucking thing~ at a time
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah. it DOES eat with it.
asciilifeform: approach has limitations, there are asynchronous things in the world (e.g., nic, disks)
trinque: hm, so is there some circuit which is responsible for the adjacency of other circuits?
asciilifeform: so you have multiple machines.
asciilifeform: like in your head
trinque: is this a distributed thing, whereby one circuit requests access to another?
asciilifeform: trinque: when you plant your arse in your chair, does arse 'request access to the chair' ?)
mircea_popescu: iut's not clear why disk would be async
trinque: asciilifeform: no, but sometimes there's a cat in it!
mircea_popescu: for that matter, disk is moving to be ram. and ram is sync.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: because you ask it for block b and some unknown time later it says 'here is block b'
trinque: ah!
mircea_popescu: no obvious need for this.
mircea_popescu: it can say "and this is block b perpetually anyway
asciilifeform: for so long as you have caches, you have locality
asciilifeform: which is to say, asking for b+1 will almost always be faster than b+100000
trinque: asciilifeform: so is it the synchronized nature of "modern" IO that is braindamaged?
trinque: I can see that point readily
trinque: I said this to ben_vulpes yesterday about HTTP request/response cycles
asciilifeform: trinque: the whole concept of having von neumann's bottleneck, where you can't do anything at all on the machine without waiting your turn for the little airline latrine of alu, mmu, etc. is asinine
mircea_popescu: refresh me. what in ulimit discusses the i/o ?
trinque: asciilifeform: so this circuit expresses a desire for the answer to some question, and some other circuit may or may not satisfy it
gabriel_laddel: loper-os-reader: I always sort of thought that about CPU designs in general. whilst software designers say “how many cycles is this going to take?”, a hardware designer knows how many cycles something is going to take on a chip: one. or else
gabriel_laddel: stas: dataflow never caught on because you absolutely need dedicated hardware. if you want real efficiency, you can’t even use standard RAM. so it gets dismissed as nuttery, on the rare occasions it comes up.
asciilifeform: trinque: when you plug a lamp into mains socket, does it 'express desire to conduct' ?
mircea_popescu: is it -i (pending signals) ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what system are you on
trinque: asciilifeform: no, but water doesn't ever come out of the socket
mircea_popescu: centos
trinque: the routing is what I'm not clear on
trinque: who says this guy wants to know some facts and not others
asciilifeform: trinque: move your abstraction level down to where the question makes sense
ben_vulpes: o hai gabriel_laddel!
asciilifeform: !s muller gate
assbot: 6 results for 'muller gate' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=muller+gate
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: hey!
ben_vulpes: the boys have been talking shit about your lispos
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: the boys have been talking shit about your lispos
ben_vulpes: !up ga
ben_vulpes: !up gabriel_laddel
ben_vulpes: !up gavinadresen
gabriel_laddel: thanks. fucking useless AT&T connection
asciilifeform: trinque: http://www.fpga4fun.com/FPGAinfo2.html << intro to state of art re: programmable logic
assbot: fpga4fun.com - How FPGAs work ... ( http://bit.ly/1eR3CR8 )
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: I saw that in the logs earlier. It doesn't really matter - they don't have any other options.
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: they'll use what's there.
trinque: asciilifeform: ty
trinque: I'll read that and improve my question
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: 'they' << your customers?
asciilifeform: trinque: i'd even argue that fpga is a mis-step historically, and you'd want to start with traditional 'gal' (as pictured here, http://design.iconnect007.media/index.php/article/31256/maxed-out-programmable-logic-part-deux/31259/?skin=design )
assbot: iconnect007 :: Article ... ( http://bit.ly/1eR3NMa )
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: the last time i met folks who 'they'll use what's there', they were running... winxp
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: I was referring to #b-a members actually. I don't have any customers yet, as Masamune is horribly incomplete.
ben_vulpes does not have a horse in this race
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24100 @ 0.00038665 = 9.3183 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: does your sbcl userland for linux come with a physical box where i get guarantee that the, e.g., video board, works ?
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: that is the idea - but currently - no.
trinque: given that I'm already using an absurd compromise (stumpwm+emacs) I'd take something which measurably improves what I'm doing there already
asciilifeform gave a good share of gabriel_laddel's material a fair, imho, reading, and still isn't entirely grasping how the proposed widget wins over classical linux box with sbcl on it
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: maxima, conkeror, CLIM as defaults
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42500 @ 0.00038968 = 16.5614 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: why would i be concerned with defaults ?
gabriel_laddel: also, scaffolding for e.g., Pete's school
ben_vulpes to bar
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: because although you already know of these things, many people do not.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel aims to bring lisps to 'most people' ?!
asciilifeform head-desks
gabriel_laddel: heh, no
ben_vulpes resents leaving at top of computers + school conversation branch
gabriel_laddel: just for people in #b-a
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: on my system, 'ulimit' only sets max file size...
mircea_popescu: i have nfi what all this shit does.
asciilifeform: somebody buy poor fella a new modem
ben_vulpes: i am interested in things like 'literate programming' in the context of mathematical education, essay writing etc
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes read knuth's work on subj ?
ben_vulpes: not yet!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: absolute best example of 'literate programming' i know of is 'jonesforth' >> https://github.com/AlexandreAbreu/jonesforth/blob/master/jonesforth.S and https://github.com/AlexandreAbreu/jonesforth/blob/master/jonesforth.f
assbot: jonesforth/jonesforth.S at master · AlexandreAbreu/jonesforth · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1dpxFNT )
assbot: jonesforth/jonesforth.f at master · AlexandreAbreu/jonesforth · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1dpxFO3 )
asciilifeform: (not originally on shithub but only surviving copy)
asciilifeform: in other news, i've a static therealbitcoin.
ben_vulpes: no wai
asciilifeform: aha.
asciilifeform: readelf -d bitcoind
asciilifeform: There is no dynamic section in this file.
ben_vulpes: i wonder how long it'll take to duplicate the feat.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i'm about to zip up the whole build tree so folks can test quickly
asciilifeform: one final test before i post it...
asciilifeform: achtung, panzers!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes, mod6, mircea_popescu, et al:
asciilifeform: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-June/000102.html
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1LCjUdN )
asciilifeform: '(EXPERIMENTAL) Static Builder for TheRealBitcoin.'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9850 @ 0.00040015 = 3.9415 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/3AKNWFV.txt << process map for this experiment
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1LCjXGo )
asciilifeform: note that it is still using conventional glibc
decimation: asciilifeform: did you try ulibc
asciilifeform: (see the gconv-modules turd? fucking lamers)
asciilifeform: decimation: not yet. but i expect to hit the same wall as mod6
decimation: yeah.
asciilifeform: first trying to bring it all to where we originally wanted it
decimation: it's possible some combination of gcc/ulibc version will work
asciilifeform: and it appears that i did this.
decimation: asciilifeform: so no dns?
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu asks, this turd will be deployed to dulap (s.nsa box)
asciilifeform: no dns.
asciilifeform: i'd prefer to get comments / replications of this experiment first
decimation: asciilifeform: is this for the pogo?
asciilifeform: no
asciilifeform: this is an amd64 build.
asciilifeform: i suppose i ought to have specified this in the readme
asciilifeform: but it ought to be clear from reading the build script
asciilifeform: this build is intended for ibmpc
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu your node is dead ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: wtf.
asciilifeform: (i'm getting a 'connection refused')
mircea_popescu looks into this.
mircea_popescu: did you ever test it ?
asciilifeform: just now.
asciilifeform: was gonna milk it
asciilifeform: i've been licking my teeth for this milking for ages
mircea_popescu: lol. apparently you're not the only one.
asciilifeform: stas@humanoid ~ $ telnet 8333
asciilifeform: Trying
asciilifeform: telnet: connect to address Connection refused
mircea_popescu: anyway. give it an hour.
mircea_popescu: !up aseriousgogetta
aseriousgogetta: ty
mircea_popescu: aha. who're you ?
aseriousgogetta: what is thebitcoin.foundation?? i just found it.
mircea_popescu: the foundation directing bitcoin development etc.
aseriousgogetta: im a crypto-enthusiast
aseriousgogetta: why 0.5.3?
decimation: what is your favorite public key algo?
aseriousgogetta: favorite.. sha256d
decimation: aite
aseriousgogetta: my current work is on a personal project; setting up foundation. what is teh work in here?
mircea_popescu: !s 0.5.3
assbot: 204 results for '0.5.3' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=0.5.3
mircea_popescu: this has been discussed in teh logs.
ben_vulpes: decrufting etc.
mircea_popescu: that didn't parse.
aseriousgogetta: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-06-2015#1178572 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 27-06-2015 02:16:03; mircea_popescu: ;;later tell ben_vulpes incidentally, were you explicitly setting -irc Find peers using internet relay chat (default: 0) flag ?
aseriousgogetta: ty
ben_vulpes: ah!
aseriousgogetta: hmm, so 0.10.2 talk is out teh window
aseriousgogetta: or scrypt-n?
asciilifeform: out teh window << no, in the latrine where they belong.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22857 @ 0.00039374 = 8.9997 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: let me know if you were able to build my 'stator.' and if you think it makes sense to sweat over a uclibc build for ibmpc, where everything ~else~ is sitting on glibc...
asciilifeform: (though i'd like to shoot that 'gconv-modules.cache' and 'locale-archive' crud in the head...)
ben_vulpes: no, I simply ran the thing.
asciilifeform: (see http://dpaste.com/3AKNWFV.txt )
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GEqYz3 )
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: l0l
asciilifeform: it ran ?
ben_vulpes: not your most recent, no
asciilifeform: what was ben_vulpes referring to then
ben_vulpes: hang on distracted.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24500 @ 0.00039374 = 9.6466 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=26-06-2015#1178089 << note that it isn't 'the foundation one' until ben_vulpes and mod6 say it is☝︎
assbot: Logged on 26-06-2015 19:46:42; mircea_popescu: it is not the foundation one, which i am going to compile and run once the instructions come out.
asciilifeform: but we have a buildable static(glibc) ibmpc build.
ben_vulpes: <aseriousgogetta> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-06-2015#1178572 << i am confus☝︎
assbot: Logged on 27-06-2015 02:16:03; mircea_popescu: ;;later tell ben_vulpes incidentally, were you explicitly setting -irc Find peers using internet relay chat (default: 0) flag ?
ben_vulpes: i did not use the -irc flag
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=27-06-2015#1178629 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 27-06-2015 03:06:14; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-06-2015#1178572 << this is ~not~ in 0.5.3. it had only '-noirc', default off.
ben_vulpes: right.
asciilifeform: idk why aseriousgogetta linked it
ben_vulpes: me neither
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes nah, upon consideration that should have no effect.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform try nao ?
ben_vulpes: ultraconfused, had to remember why i hadn't responded to the ;;later
ben_vulpes: (if i even had, etc)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hangs after 'connected'
asciilifeform: anybody else?
asciilifeform: 'socket no message in first 60 seconds, 0 1'
ben_vulpes is drinking with trinqu, will be playing with blockchains later
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: is your box getting hammered by bozos ?
ben_vulpes: !up Chicago
decimation: Chicago: are you a fan of crypto too?
asciilifeform: now what i can't remember is whether mod6 already had this orchestra working
asciilifeform: (with glibc+static)
decimation: I thought he had
decimation: but with dns
asciilifeform: afaik can't do dns at all with static glibc
asciilifeform: so no
asciilifeform: but possibly he had something like what i just posted, but it isn't on the ml.
decimation: I've seen it give linker warnings
decimation: didn't check to see if it was truely static
asciilifeform: mine also gives linker warning for 'what if you used gethostbyname'
decimation: yeah exactly
asciilifeform: -- except that we provably never do
asciilifeform: so fuck it
asciilifeform: gcc sucks at stripping deadcode, news at 11.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5093 @ 0.00039374 = 2.0053 BTC [-]
decimation: also, nobody gives a fuck about supporting static linking, news at 11
asciilifeform: we knew, yes
decimation: "why link static when you could just accept my world of shit?"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform kind-of.
scoopbot_revived: Women and incentives in tech http://trilema.com/2015/women-and-incentives-in-tech/
mircea_popescu: there's ~30 connected, ye'll have to insist.
asciilifeform: let me guess, the duplicates aren't up
asciilifeform: because 'split' br0ke
asciilifeform head-desks
mircea_popescu: doubt they'd be in a much better position.
asciilifeform: addrLocalHost = << anybody else getting this ?
asciilifeform: ah it's the retardation
asciilifeform: '// Proxies can't take incoming connections'
asciilifeform: working as written.
asciilifeform: that crap ~will~ have to be shot.
asciilifeform: as well as the ability to kick 'for misbehaviour' the ONLY PERMITTED CONNECT node
asciilifeform: who the FUCK thought of that.
asciilifeform: what's next, uterus gives her cramps so she ejects it ?
asciilifeform: across the room
Chicago: decimation, Sure I'm a crypto fan. :)
Chicago: Albeit more active in Wintertime when my rigs warm the house.
asciilifeform: '-connect=x.x.x.x' should ONLY affect OUTGOING connections
mircea_popescu: myeah
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wake me up when there's a box to sync from that i don't have to share with public urinators
mircea_popescu: how do you propose i implement this ?
asciilifeform: iptables ?
mircea_popescu goes to read the manual for iptables now, to find how you do "open port only for x ip"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26700 @ 0.00038826 = 10.3665 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: fully expecting he will have to install vanrish, uninstall alsa, recompile the kernel and fix glibc.
ben_vulpes: you're learning!
ben_vulpes: http://thebitcoin.foundation/doxygen/v0_5_3_1-wPatchesApplied/net_8cpp_source.html#l00653 << help what am i looking at
assbot: bitcoin v0.5.3.1-RELEASE + patches { http://thebitcoin.foundation/doxygen/v0_5_3_1-wPatchesApplied/v0531-wPatchesApplied.txt }: bitcoin/src/net.cpp Source File ... ( http://bit.ly/1LvmktA )
ben_vulpes: why are these critical sections lexically nested?
asciilifeform: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/7423309/iptables-block-access-to-port-8000-except-from-ip-address >> change port, 8333..
assbot: firewall - iptables block access to port 8000 except from IP address - Stack Overflow ... ( http://bit.ly/1LvmkK8 )
ben_vulpes: are they also /programatically/ nested?
mircea_popescu: iptables -I INPUT -p tcp ! -s <permittedIP> -j DROP << is that it ?
trinque: mircea_popescu: because layering another turd atop iptables is surely what you want... I find ufw a nice tool to deal with trivial firewall setups
mircea_popescu: hm shouldn't port be specified somewhere
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: read linked turd
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform try nao
asciilifeform: 'connect() failed after select(): Connection refused'
mircea_popescu: actually uh... i see you ?
mircea_popescu: wtf/
asciilifeform sends warm hello to the nice folks at ft meade sending us tcp FIN's
mircea_popescu: nowai.
asciilifeform: socket no message in first 60 seconds, 0 1
mircea_popescu: eh nonsense.
mircea_popescu: it's been feeding 100s of peers like 1gb since yest or w/e.
asciilifeform: try from own box
mircea_popescu: it works from a multitude of boxen
asciilifeform about to test with conventional therealbitcoin
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yes but did any of them '-connect'
trinque: asciilifeform: am I in the ballpark... having the vague notion that c-gates would be used to indicate whether the inputs necessary to perform a computation are available?
trinque: strikes me as "promises" to indicate the braindamaged programming environments I've sued
asciilifeform: trinque: c-gate only fires when all inputs are stable
trinque: *used
trinque: right
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform they must have if they were moving bytes neh
asciilifeform: and if connected to other c-gates, same applies to them
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: same thing when using conventional therealbitcoin
asciilifeform: (non-static)
trinque: seems to be the mechanism by which you call a bunch of asynchronous happenings one "thing", and can therefore act upon those "things" all being available
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and no, i was specifically talking about -connect=x.x.x.x' commandline argument
mircea_popescu: hm
mircea_popescu: i have nfi
asciilifeform boots up 'wireshark'
mircea_popescu: honestly, i don't think that iptables thing actually works.
mircea_popescu: because everyone trying to get in is now stuck on LAST ACK
mircea_popescu: which is not to my eye the expected behaviour.
decimation: iptables, like most of the kernel, is undocumented as fuck
asciilifeform: ~all~ i get is ACKs
asciilifeform is watching the packets in real time
mircea_popescu: i srsly see established conns.
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: all i get is acks
asciilifeform: they're established, yes..
asciilifeform: but mine asks 'version' and hears '...'
mircea_popescu: hm.
decimation: I kinda get the impression that about 99% of iptables implementations out there are 'cut n paste' from what someone else posted on some website
mircea_popescu: certainly.
decimation: just like 99% of 'autoconf' use is cut n' paste
decimation: many eyes, etc
trinque: beatings for everyone that decides to introduce his own grammar to describe some problem space (firewalls one of many examples)
trinque: I know... I'll invent a syntax!
trinque: firewall configuration should be a function you write that the network stack runs on every packet
trinque: pf is marginally better, but that's about it
asciilifeform brb, food
trinque: the ufw thing at least gives you a semi-sane "ufw allow from to any port 8333"
decimation: yeah it's kinda a cluster
decimation: proprietary firewalls on cisco, etc aren't any better
trinque: and even ufw runs afoul of the "natural language" == easy
trinque: same mistake as SQL
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 187 @ 0.0130107 = 2.433 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform tell you what, if you don't get to the bottom of it, ima make you an account on the server tomorrow, copy over the blockchain and you can compile your own or w/e.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33406 @ 0.00039961 = 13.3494 BTC [+] {3}
scoopbot_revived: The art of punishment, translated. http://www.contravex.com/2015/06/27/the-art-of-punishment-translated/
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: -addnode works
asciilifeform: -connect --- no
asciilifeform: of course this is useless
asciilifeform: but shows that packets do move
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4400 @ 0.00039312 = 1.7297 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it really ought not to be necessary to move blockchains with bare hands!
asciilifeform: that's what '-connect' is for
mod6: wow, just getting caught up here. have been afk for a while here today...
mod6: <+asciilifeform> now what i can't remember is whether mod6 already had this orchestra working <+asciilifeform> (with glibc+static) << v0.5.3.1-RELEASE basically is not true "static" build because of the gethostbyname() (DNS/libnss) calls in there. but was trying to build static bitcoind with uclibc/gcc on gentoo, was hitting a problem described here before. If you stripped out all of the DNS stuff and then did a build with gcc/glibc I'm thinkin
asciilifeform: mod6: msg got cut off
asciilifeform: at 'I'm thinking tha'
mod6: oh crap. ok sorry.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hey, i know. what can i do over here.
mod6: If you stripped out all of the DNS stuff and then did a build with gcc/glibc I'm thinking that would get us where we want to be; sounds like you've done that!
mod6: my pos car got a flat today, so I limped it up to the station to get a new tire & walked the ~3 miles back.
asciilifeform: mod6: there is still http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-06-2015#1179772 and also figuring out wtf gives with '-connect'☝︎
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 02:47:49; asciilifeform: (though i'd like to shoot that 'gconv-modules.cache' and 'locale-archive' crud in the head...)
mod6: only to find out that both front springs are broken (lol) and that's what caused the tire to blow out.
asciilifeform: woah
asciilifeform: srsly?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, ok if i move back to public access for this ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: go ahead
asciilifeform: i don't think overcrowding was the issue here
mod6: so now I've got this company to pay $185 and take it off my hands for scrap. hahah
mircea_popescu: got the command predigested for me ?
mircea_popescu: :D
asciilifeform: aaand hey
asciilifeform: it worked
mircea_popescu: huh ?
asciilifeform: wtf
asciilifeform: it's milking
mircea_popescu: lmao
mod6: you got connected to mp's blockchain milk? or -connect worked for you?
asciilifeform: what did mircea_popescu do ?
mircea_popescu: i played wiff girl.
asciilifeform: l0rl
mircea_popescu: game of yatze
mircea_popescu: anyway, ima keep it locked to your ip till tomorro then
asciilifeform: ty
mircea_popescu: if nothing else then because "don't fuck with shit that works"
mod6: oh, forgot to mention. the place wanted $500 to replace the springs. which is what prompted me to `mv posCar /dev/scrap`
asciilifeform still wondering wtf that was all about
mircea_popescu: very weird.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27097 @ 0.00038778 = 10.5077 BTC [-] {3}
mod6: hmm
decimation: mod6: mechanics are famous for exploiting folks in what they think are vulnerable situations
mod6: yeah, they were pretty blown away when I just came and told 'em i was gonna scrap it.
trinque lawls at the naked folks biking past him
trinque: there are things to like about this communist land
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: now stuck again...
asciilifeform: after 43929
mod6: it's not processing blocks? or you're getting disconnected?
asciilifeform: stalled
mod6: hmm. give it 10 minutes to be sure... unless it's taking on those weird errors
asciilifeform: no errors
asciilifeform: just... stalls
asciilifeform: as in, nothing moving over the pipe
mod6: I remember from the block 168`001 issue (tx verification failed) that it would start dumping tons of errors if truly stuck.
mircea_popescu: eh listen, it's prolly getting too much attention
asciilifeform: again, not this
mod6: ah
mircea_popescu: let it be till tomorro, and we'll see what.
asciilifeform leaves the thing running
asciilifeform: picture so far is consistent with massive ddos, imho
mod6: asciilifeform: thanks a lot for your work tonight on the Static Builder. I'm a bit zapped to start getting into that tonight. Is it cool with you if I start testing it out tomorrow morning?
mod6: I can work on that and see where I can get with it; then I have to start working on the SoBA for June.
asciilifeform: mod6: no reason to hurry
mod6: Ok awesome.
asciilifeform: i'm about to sleep a bit myself
mod6: *nod*
mod6: thanks for all of your help :]
asciilifeform: np
asciilifeform: this exercise did not take very long but for some reason very tiring
mod6: yeah, i hear ya.
mod6: get some rest. tomorrow we can keep on.
ben_vulpes: sleep? when all these titties are biking by?
ben_vulpes hauls out lawn chair and bottle of wine
mod6: haha.
trinque: ben_vulpes: y'know no sooner do I even consider relocating to the land of capitalism and Portland's like "but dude! an army of titties on bikes!"
trinque: ok portland, you win this round
trinque: this I think has something to do with the political problems throughout time
trinque: maybe I should get more drunk and see if pete_dushenski ends up writing about it
asciilifeform: another burst of milkage
asciilifeform: to 44429. stall.
asciilifeform: l0l
mod6: nice. you think it's being packeted though?
asciilifeform: somebody's taking a king-sized shit in there
mod6: ah
asciilifeform: either that or somebody between here and there is 'losing' packets.
decimation: or there's a dysfunctional router somewhere
mod6: what does tr look like?
asciilifeform: decimation: not here
asciilifeform: woah
asciilifeform: some pretty serious strange
mod6: is it looping
asciilifeform: http://dpaste.com/2WANN89.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ebSUU4 )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu ^
mod6: asciilifeform: mine looks exactly the same.
decimation: asciilifeform: seems like 'unthreading bitcoind' would be an admiral goal
asciilifeform: decimation: ?
decimation: cutting out the locking, threads ,etc
asciilifeform: tcp without threads?
asciilifeform: wat
asciilifeform: gonna service 1 node at a time ?
mod6: http://dpaste.com/3WAY4WZ.txt << mine (lol 3way)
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ebTbqg )
asciilifeform: with polling ?
decimation: yeah, async
asciilifeform: screw that
decimation: heh
mod6: heheh
asciilifeform: go build p2p net with 1-at-a-time
asciilifeform: (and what, someone wants to connect, you drop ~everything~ ?)
decimation: I've built several pure async servers
asciilifeform: decimation: what do they do? queue requests ?
decimation: sure
decimation: generally, you write a while loop with epoll or whatever
decimation: jump to whatever bell rings
asciilifeform: as if this thing didn't suck enough balls
decimation: well, it seems to me that there ought to be a definable spec between "talk to peers" and "maintain database of blocks"
asciilifeform: decimation: unless i seriously misunderstood mircea_popescu, not only is the reference client the permanent spec, but so are the turdependencies
asciilifeform: and anything purporting to be a human-readable spec is necessarily incomplete
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25944 @ 0.00040271 = 10.4479 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: well, until the book is printed, studied, underped
decimation: over many man-years of effort
asciilifeform: and that we're more or less stuck with this until mythical 'sanity fork'
trinque: decimation: sounds kinda like what I understand nginx to be
trinque: munches a queue of that-which-must-be-done with 1-n workers
asciilifeform: decimation: i don't think that a mathematically-rigorous description of openssl (not to even mention boost and bdb) could be achieved in 10,000 years of sweat
asciilifeform: or that anyone would wish to try.
decimation: even the severable bits that bitcoind really needs?
asciilifeform: it's 'the spittoon'
asciilifeform: none of it is really severable from any of it
decimation: well, ultimately it's all running machine code
decimation: might need to start at that level I guess.
asciilifeform actually began there
asciilifeform: tried to come up with a mechanical mapping back from bin to what produced each section in the elf
asciilifeform: even wrote buncha ida script idiocy
asciilifeform: had to put it down, too many other things going on
asciilifeform: gcc, as one might imagine, does not go out of its way to help this be a readily practical thing
asciilifeform: quite the contrary.
asciilifeform: rms ~deliberately~ nudges it, whenever he can, in the direction of being as opaque as possible
decimation: no and as I recall there's hand-written asm in openssl
asciilifeform: decimation: optional
decimation: sure, to keep folks from re-writing gcc
decimation: so he can haz powerz
asciilifeform: decimation: not quite
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-08-2014#816009 << see old thread.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 03:37:06; decimation: "The existence of LLVM is a terrible setback for our community precisely because it is not copylefted and can be used as the basis for nonfree compilers — so that all contribution to LLVM directly helps proprietary software as much as it helps us.'"
asciilifeform: .... and another short burst from mircea_popescu's node
asciilifeform: decimation: rms did not want it to break apart into readily-plagiarizable pieces.
asciilifeform: this is annoying but i understand 100%
asciilifeform: why he did it
ben_vulpes: erm i thought bitcoind *did* service one at a time, looping over sockets
ben_vulpes to src
decimation: sure, he wants to keep people from mkaing a bsd gcc
asciilifeform: gcc is the original lonely fort keeping the whole gpl thing alive
asciilifeform: the one thing the fucking parasites couldn't effectively plagiarize without leaving trace
asciilifeform: but this had a cost, yes.
asciilifeform: i will note that llvm (since i mentioned it again) is upon the most cursory examination a piece of shit, that wasn't even built to 'be good' - but simply with the one and only purpose of killing gcc.
asciilifeform: rms is spot-on here
asciilifeform: it exists, was built, to help him die.
decimation: I find it unlikely that the fsf will outlive him
asciilifeform: in the sense in which it is now alive? sure
asciilifeform: in the sense of keeping the 'reasonable' folks at bay? doubtful
decimation: maybe.
asciilifeform: as soon as he's out, 'reasonable' people will crawl in and 'make compromises'
decimation: gpl is pretty weak sauce unless you have a barrel of lawyers to help you enforce it
decimation: aye, agreed
decimation: all I want is a world where I get source when I get software
decimation: but I recognize that rms' stand is probably the only way
asciilifeform: won't ask for it to be buildable ?
asciilifeform: on something which in turn is buildable ?
asciilifeform: etc
decimation: aye
decimation: really, he's already lost his war for the reasons you harp on re: bedrock
asciilifeform: rms doesn't do war. not for many years, anyway. he does 'lonely fort'
asciilifeform: keeping out whole universes full of filth
asciilifeform: that will come flooding in as soon as he's out of action
asciilifeform: it is already seeping through the cracks.
asciilifeform: has been, for some years now.
decimation: yeah, as far as I can tell gpl only really 'sticks' to fsf software directly
asciilifeform: gpl is really primarily about gcc and linuxkernel
decimation: yeah
asciilifeform: everything else is window dressing
decimation: not much use to a license if you don't intend on enforcing it
ben_vulpes: (curse these jackholes who littered the source with printstatements that include function names)
ben_vulpes: is there a sane cpp logging thing that could be used in place of these print statements?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: there's gcc-specific stuff that folds the line and # into the print
asciilifeform: (can't recall off top of head what, precisely. rtfm...)
asciilifeform: https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/cpp/Standard-Predefined-Macros.html << possibly here
assbot: Standard Predefined Macros - The C Preprocessor ... ( http://bit.ly/1JqXV95 )
asciilifeform: https://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/cpp/Common-Predefined-Macros.html#Common-Predefined-Macros << and here
assbot: Common Predefined Macros - The C Preprocessor ... ( http://bit.ly/1JqXXxK )
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: fprintf(stderr, "info: %s:%d: ", __FILE__, __LINE__);
ben_vulpes wonders at actual utility of a patch shaped like this
asciilifeform: i was reluctant to throw gccisms in there, but if we go and start building on mircea_popescu's soviet pdp11 we can always roll equivalent macros for that
asciilifeform: but if you ask me, this falls squarely under 'do this after it fucking ~works~' as described by mircea_popescu earlier.
ben_vulpes nods
asciilifeform sees another very short burst from mircea_popescu's node
asciilifeform: followed by silence...
asciilifeform: at this rate, the thing will sync some time after the eeproms in my computer lose 9/10th of their bits
asciilifeform: and i die of old age 3-5 times
mircea_popescu: nuts.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/net.cpp#1499 << looping over nodes, handling messages including new blocks
assbot: Satoshi ... ( http://bit.ly/1JqYpMw )
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: yes but has accept()
ben_vulpes: pardon?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: is able to take new connections while doing said loop
ben_vulpes: aha
ben_vulpes: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/ident?_i=fShutdown << for log readers interested in how precisely bitcoin shits its pants when told to go to sleep
assbot: Satoshi identifier search: fShutdown ... ( http://bit.ly/1JqYD6n )
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: but if you can write your own asynchronous everything, you can finally get the coveted msdos port...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4305 @ 0.00040539 = 1.7452 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: mnope.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: didja see http://dpaste.com/2WANN89.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GTxC7X )
ben_vulpes: that'd be threadsockethandler?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ok ?
mircea_popescu: what is
asciilifeform: damned if i know
mircea_popescu: does ntt europe have a dedicated, identifiable five eyes leecher ?
asciilifeform: wouldn't be the first
asciilifeform: and not merely leecher, but pisser
mircea_popescu: this entire experience painfully reminds me of the famous phoneline click somehow
asciilifeform: aha!
asciilifeform: was just thinking this!
mircea_popescu: im sure it's just my feverish paranoia.
asciilifeform: if it's man-made, it's actually pretty classy
asciilifeform: dropping the connection would get bitcoind rotating to next node
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-06-2015#1179703 << win.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 02:04:04; asciilifeform: There is no dynamic section in this file.
asciilifeform: (supposing we weren't using -connect)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: partial win, it's still built on (static) glibc
asciilifeform: but the thing is running on my box now.
mircea_popescu: you actually managed to get glibc to static ?
asciilifeform: did.
mircea_popescu: this is pretty great.
asciilifeform: pull down the tarball from ml, try
asciilifeform: doesn't take high tech magic
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-06-2015#1179724 << perfect.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 02:30:30; asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu asks, this turd will be deployed to dulap (s.nsa box)
asciilifeform: drop deps in 'distfiles', run stator.sh.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: and yes, was gonna do this after certain tests. such as the one that is presently failing
asciilifeform: (-connect from motherlode)
mircea_popescu: aha.
asciilifeform: and would sorta like other folks to read the damn thing
mircea_popescu: yea.
asciilifeform: (no patches necessary to the bitcoind proper beyond what was published previously)
asciilifeform: see ml post.
mircea_popescu: did someoine actually answer "favourite pubkey algo" q with a ... hashing function ?!
asciilifeform: yeah some anon schmuck
mircea_popescu: "what's your favourite fish ?" "shoe"
mircea_popescu: "you mean sole ?" "o yeah that's the one!"
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: why "stator"
asciilifeform: 'the most delicious fish is the sausage.' --my grandfather
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: static bin
mircea_popescu: properly made sausage actually floats. therefore not a fish
mircea_popescu: but a witch
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: ouch
mircea_popescu: are you a pain enthusiast ben_vulpes ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform to answer earlier q : i think for thius purpose (running on dulap etc) static glibc is exactly right.
mircea_popescu: doesn't help us on pogo, but that's a diff story.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i was actually thinking of doing for ibmpc something like what i did for pogo
asciilifeform: e.g. a kernel that boots right into, this.
mircea_popescu: we'll have to bootstrap ourselves.
mircea_popescu: so that can be v 1.1
asciilifeform: y'know how some hoster folks let you drop an iso in when you get the thing
mircea_popescu: also, kernel is a good idea maybe for pogo. not for a proper server. you want people to add it to all their noncritical dedis.
asciilifeform: 'install favourite os'
asciilifeform: that'd be more for dedicated nodes, aha
asciilifeform: for mixing into daily life - normal package suffices
mircea_popescu: pogo = dedicated node ; this = stick everywhere
mircea_popescu: yeah
asciilifeform: but overall i like the idea of a dc box with bitcoind and LITERALLY NOTHING ELSE
asciilifeform: not even ssh
mircea_popescu: pogo.
mircea_popescu: that box should not be in dc
mircea_popescu: but on consumer internet terminals.
asciilifeform: until we actually get limited mempool, shoot fragging in the head, etc. pogo will be a bit slow
asciilifeform: (it'll have to swap.)
mircea_popescu: understand - it's 10x to 100x more expensive to do a on random home cable than it is on servers
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: unquestionably the whole 'p2p' thing is the right and proper objective
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46850 @ 0.00040636 = 19.038 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: but of necessity many of the boxes involved in the ramp-up will be pc.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-06-2015#1180198 << can't entirely agree here. every so often folks discover carriers diddling 'consumer' traffic in obscene ways (adding tracking crud to http, even) having gone by for years at a time with not a squeak from the chumps☝︎
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 05:28:41; mircea_popescu: understand - it's 10x to 100x more expensive to do a on random home cable than it is on servers
asciilifeform: do this at a serious dc and you have half a dozen 'bofhs' going postal
ben_vulpes: pardon my thickness, but what is "this" now?
asciilifeform: because literate folks, heard of 'tcpdump', 'wireshark', etc
ben_vulpes: oh oh
asciilifeform: yeah, that this.
ben_vulpes: diddling.
ben_vulpes: what is the 10x to 100x refer to - not the ip cost at a 'home' terminal?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: cost of setting up diddler
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you're thinking the 90s.
mircea_popescu: those people are retired.
asciilifeform: i'm still in the 90s
asciilifeform: posting from them right now, l0l
mircea_popescu: nice for you - but...
asciilifeform: it's about 1994 here in this room
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes just more nonsense to filter.
ben_vulpes: ic
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> "what's your favourite fish ?" "shoe" << haha
asciilifeform bbl.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-06-2015#1179994 << topless ?☝︎
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 04:31:39; trinque: ben_vulpes: y'know no sooner do I even consider relocating to the land of capitalism and Portland's like "but dude! an army of titties on bikes!"
mats: http://pdxwnbr.org/
assbot: World Naked Bike Ride | As Bare As You Dare ... ( http://bit.ly/1GEDYEW )
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-06-2015#1180042 << pretty much. HOWEVER, more movement has been made towards sanity in this chan over the past six months than since 2009.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 04:49:18; asciilifeform: and that we're more or less stuck with this until mythical 'sanity fork'
mats returns to the shadows
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-06-2015#1180079 << outright impossible.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 04:59:46; decimation: I find it unlikely that the fsf will outlive him
mircea_popescu: the fsf, and the "foss" concoction, are going to be gone before the usg.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform, trinque, decimation: how does http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/serialize.h#1141 implement serialization such that it writes correctly-shaped data to CBlock here: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp#2193
assbot: Satoshi ... ( http://bit.ly/1GEEq6b )
assbot: Satoshi ... ( http://bit.ly/1GEEqD2 )
ben_vulpes: (and anyone else who understands cpp)
decimation: ugh template shit
ben_vulpes: maybe someday i'll understand what precisely's going on in serialize.h
ben_vulpes: just strikes me as a bit of black magic that a CDataStream can deserialize itself into a CBlock with just an overloaded right shift operator
decimation: yes, that's what the template does
decimation: 'overloads' >> with another function
ben_vulpes: but how does it know what to serialize the block message into
decimation: as in, what type?
ben_vulpes: maybe? perhaps i'm speaking poorly of ignorance.
ben_vulpes: is that `CBlock block` a contiguous-ish memory section?
mircea_popescu: unlikely.
decimation: can you tell me what line you are trying to understand? where the cblock is?
decimation: honestly I usually end up reading C++ reference books and mumbling to myself
ben_vulpes: decimation: i'm struggling to understand how http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp#2193 results in a data structure that ProcessBlock can understand
assbot: Satoshi ... ( http://bit.ly/1GEGdYT )
ben_vulpes: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.cpp#1424 << processblock, third line of which calls pblock->GetHash()
assbot: Satoshi ... ( http://bit.ly/1GEGkUc )
decimation: lol it calls a macro http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/serialize.h#0098
assbot: Satoshi ... ( http://bit.ly/1GEGJ9h )
decimation: the IMPLEMENT_SERIALIZE in CBlock is here http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/main.h#0800
assbot: Satoshi ... ( http://bit.ly/1GEHdw9 )
decimation: any class that serializes implements this macro
mats: http://messageboard.inhalant.org/post/my-isopropyl-alcohol-story-6562564 jesus
assbot: My isopropyl alcohol story. - Inhalant Abuse Prevention ... ( http://bit.ly/1GEILpO )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39350 @ 0.00040276 = 15.8486 BTC [-] {2}
punkman: mats, lol. he's in netherlands, has money, and can't find better drugs than denatured alcohol?
mats: that occurred to me as well
trinque: "I did it because i like the smell." << bahaha
trinque: I've heard that one re: cocaine too
trinque: I'm sure in this case he means it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14050 @ 0.00039684 = 5.5756 BTC [-]
trinque: I have sometimes been so worried about what huffing isopropyl alcohol did to me that I have even faked symptoms so that I could go to the doctor repeatedly and get all kinds of check-ups. << I gotta wonder if these people aren't just addicted to the notion that they're doing something crazy and bad.
trinque: and love whatever attention that brings too
punkman: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3139679/Meet-Shabani-handsome-gorilla-raised-Australia-fame-Japan-women-flock-zoo-just-him.html
assbot: Gorilla Shabani who was raised in Australia has found fame in Japan | Daily Mail Online ... ( http://bit.ly/1dq5A9s )
punkman: http://www.rgj.com/longform/news/2015/06/26/blm-wants-vip-compound-burning-man/29318493/
assbot: RGJ Exclusive: BLM wants $1 million VIP compound from Burning Man ... ( http://bit.ly/1eRxjl1 )
cazalla: mircea_popescu, ya have not blocked me from qntra.net/wp-admin with iptables have ya?
punkman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_yCA0dsloE
assbot: Scary fire accident in Taiwan!!! - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1dq6nap )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7800 @ 0.00039608 = 3.0894 BTC [-] {2}
cazalla: punkman, we don't need no water let the mother fucker burn..
punkman: heh
cazalla: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBfoFl0mnho
assbot: Walmart Refuses to Make Confederate Flag, But Makes This Cake Instead - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1eRyiSe )
cazalla: could only get better if they storm his house and arrest him for an ISIS cake
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44812 @ 0.00040145 = 17.9898 BTC [+]
punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=25-06-2015#1176407 << https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrlYJqPvLks☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 17:21:41; mircea_popescu: "fata care cere palme" < face that demands slapping
assbot: Referendum (Grèce, Grecia, Greece, Griechenland, Grécia) : Alexis Tsipras - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1eRyAbK )
scoopbot_revived: Mining Difficulty Decreases By -0.58% http://qntra.net/2015/06/mining-difficulty-decreases-by-0-58/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15145 @ 0.00041102 = 6.2249 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9255 @ 0.00041723 = 3.8615 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: cazalla: would benefit from a chart
punkman: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CHK_W17UgAEuLIl.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1eRzIw7 )
cazalla: ben_vulpes, ay yo charts don't be earning no s.qntr shares CC: pete_dushenski
punkman: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-06-27/fx-brokerages-move-close-only-ahead-monday-open
assbot: FX Brokerages Move To "Close Only" Ahead Of Monday Open | Zero Hedge ... ( http://bit.ly/1eRBLQw )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24445 @ 0.00042024 = 10.2728 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2015/06/27/cnn-confuses-butt-plug-and-dildo-banner-for-isis-flag-at-pride/
assbot: CNN confuses sex toy banner for ISIS flag at Pride · PinkNews ... ( http://bit.ly/1eRC9i4 )
jurov: lol they see isis everywhere
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4131 @ 0.00042098 = 1.7391 BTC [+]
punkman: jurov, in their defence, it looks like one
jurov: not on second look
cazalla: somewhat similar to that if you dropped a few stars from the ussa flag, you'd still think it was the ussa flag
mircea_popescu: cazalla have not, no.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-06-2015#1180271 << hos gotta knows where to flock.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 07:17:23; punkman: http://www.rgj.com/longform/news/2015/06/26/blm-wants-vip-compound-burning-man/29318493/
cazalla: got in eventually, just took 5-10m to log into wp-admin for some reason
mircea_popescu: now, why would it be for ~officials~ is another matter.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30708 @ 0.00042154 = 12.9447 BTC [+] {2}
punkman: !up MacCheese
MacCheese: Does slackware spy on what you do on your computer?
MacCheese: I am Jesus Christ
punkman: welcome
MacCheese: meowmix081?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55750 @ 0.00041856 = 23.3347 BTC [-]
MacCheese: !s meowmix081
assbot: 1 results for 'meowmix081' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=meowmix081
MacCheese: !s meowmix
assbot: 59 results for 'meowmix' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=meowmix
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11791 @ 0.00042428 = 5.0027 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4000 @ 0.00041856 = 1.6742 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41098 @ 0.00041744 = 17.1559 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10526 @ 0.00042428 = 4.466 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68803 @ 0.00042449 = 29.2062 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 49550 @ 0.00041744 = 20.6842 BTC [-]
punkman: http://www.williamhillplc.com/media/newsroom/media-releases/2015/no-more-bets-on-grexit/
assbot: William Hill PLC: No More Bets On Grexit - Media releases - Newsroom - Media ... ( http://bit.ly/1BYNpUd )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12900 @ 0.00041744 = 5.385 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38800 @ 0.00041531 = 16.114 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21500 @ 0.00041437 = 8.909 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: asciilifeform, others: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/serialize.h#0074 < hilarious. C++ methods being 'metaprogrammed' by C macro
assbot: Satoshi ... ( http://bit.ly/1JrAIDH )
decimation: satoshi had no shame
decimation: mixing C preprocessor and C++ templates would only occur to someone who had programed much C spagetti code in his life
decimation: ben_vulpes: to be clear, IMPLEMENT_SERIALIZE is a C preprocessor macro that is composed of other C preprocessor macros (READWRITE) that ends up dangling all the serialize/deserialize methods onto classes of his choosing
decimation: the methods themselves being C++ template methods
punkman: nice one
kakobrekla: spacex just disintegrated heh
mats: i was also watching the stream
mats: rocket disintegrates mid air
mats: ...oops.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19904 @ 0.00041404 = 8.2411 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu sync from your node (or from hitler's mitm node...!) is at 193600+ and counting
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: traceroute looks same today as last night.
asciilifeform: and it still runs in 'bursts.'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37350 @ 0.00040364 = 15.076 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: 'BLM Special Agent Dan Love of Salt Lake City was cited multiple times as the person behind many of the BLM requests, according to the emails. Love will have a personal bathroom trailer to be shared with only one other official, according to documents. Love also led the BLM operation against Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy that ended in a standoff with Bundy's armed supporters. He did not return requests for comment this week.'
asciilifeform: ^ mega-l0l
asciilifeform has never been to 'burning man' thing and never really grasped the appeal
mats: 'culture'
asciilifeform: if i wanted to sit in the sun and dig latrines i could do it for free in .mil
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16491 @ 0.00040364 = 6.6564 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: they have better pyrotechnics too.
asciilifeform: http://btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/src/serialize.h#0074 << cpp programmers in particular have no notion of hygiene. and the more experienced, the less of a notion they have, as a rule
assbot: Satoshi ... ( http://bit.ly/1KnqlkG )
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-06-2015#1180335 << pretty much what naggum said: the language and its ecosystem encourages this kind of mental decay - and selects for the susceptible in the first place☝︎
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 14:23:29; decimation: the methods themselves being C++ template methods
asciilifeform: see http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3088289335876823@naggum.no.html
assbot: Re: Why a lisp OS? Re: Help required on Limitations of Lisp - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1NquySi )
asciilifeform: in particular, 'in a sense, Windows is a result of the way C++ builds environments, like Unix is a result of how C does it.'
asciilifeform: https://sourceware.org/ml/libc-hacker/1999-08/msg00049.html << drepper!
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1NqvNB2 )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu ^^
asciilifeform: (re: the gconv thing. i've been bashing my head against the conundrum of how to tear out that idiocy from my static build)
asciilifeform: it ~has~ to go
asciilifeform: go and strace the thing and yes, it snarfs up this perfectly-irrelevant turd from disk
asciilifeform: https://sourceware.org/ml/libc-hacker/1999-08/msg00051.html << moar of same
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nqw332 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45100 @ 0.00040671 = 18.3426 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: poettering et al are small change in comparison
asciilifeform: linux ecosystem was drepperized so long ago that scarcely anyone remembers.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-06-2015#1180185 << my build cannot be considered battlefield-ready in this sense until the gconv thing is burned out with hot irons☝︎
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 05:26:58; mircea_popescu: also, kernel is a good idea maybe for pogo. not for a proper server. you want people to add it to all their noncritical dedis.
asciilifeform: that thing is a ready, lubricated orifice for slithering vermin
asciilifeform: the thing that boggles my mind is that rms ~must~ have known about the fifth column
asciilifeform: how has he not spoken out (or eaten his pistol...) yet ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17892 @ 0.00039688 = 7.101 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40805 @ 0.00039626 = 16.1694 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12648 @ 0.00039532 = 5 BTC [-]
chetty: http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2015/06/26/artificial-intelligence-machine-gets-testy-with-its-programmers/
assbot: Artificial Intelligence Machine Gets Testy With Its Programmer - Digits - WSJ ... ( http://bit.ly/1IDtxTo )
chetty: is it just me or does that machine sound a bit like mp?
asciilifeform: '...The exchange sheds further light on the latest work carried out by large technology firms in the field of artificial intelligence, a booming field...' << apparently today is still 1966, weizenbaum's 'eliza' is 'latest work'
asciilifeform: !up bitcoinfailed
asciilifeform loves the open-ended 'failed' used in the english language
asciilifeform: sentence doesn't need an object, why'd ya want that, aha
kakobrekla: Human: What do you like to talk about?
kakobrekla: Machine: Nothing.
kakobrekla: seems quite honest to me
asciilifeform: ;;later tell BingoBoingo in your gardening, have you ever used a 19th c.-style muscle-powered grass cutter? i did today, and noticed that it is actually less exhausting than petrol-powered variety on account of my not breathing CO from tailpipe
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52197 @ 0.00039377 = 20.5536 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20100 @ 0.00039826 = 8.005 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18300 @ 0.00039826 = 7.2882 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23800 @ 0.00039416 = 9.381 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: 208002...
asciilifeform is coming to think that we will be needing a mechanism for out-of-band (hashes, pgp) comparison of blockchains
asciilifeform is not ~at all~ certain that he is actually pulling from mircea_popescu's box, rather than a preet's
ben_vulpes: how could one tell? ordering of blocks?
asciilifeform: tell what ?
asciilifeform: whether he and i have same ?
asciilifeform: by hashing and sending pgpgram...
ben_vulpes: there's no guarantee that you'll produce the same blockchain on disk, though.
asciilifeform: precisely
asciilifeform: hence why we need a mechanism to actually checksum the blocks and dump it to a man-readable form
ben_vulpes: i would actually be *surprised* if you did produce the same disk bytes via a network cslurping
asciilifeform: can reuse the 'checkpoint' code for this
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: you know full well that it won't
asciilifeform: which is why i said 'we need mechanism...' rather than 'hey mircea_popescu, hash those db turds and send me back via pgp wontcha'
ben_vulpes: i surmise
ben_vulpes: the thing at this point lies spread apart on my vivisection table
ben_vulpes: i've not yet mapped its circulatory system, much less how it excretes
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: if you wanna perform a heroid deed, find out how to nuke gconv
asciilifeform: *heroic
asciilifeform: so far, all i learned is that it can - supposedly - be disabled during glibc build config. but this is not what i want
ben_vulpes: i'm not actually entirely certain where the gconv stuff is coming in
asciilifeform: if i have to write an elf diddler to yank it out of the binary, i will
asciilifeform: but would rather not come to this
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it is coming via glibc
asciilifeform: see the drepper link earlier today
asciilifeform: that fucker is responsible
asciilifeform: was quite open about it.
ben_vulpes: that, sir, is over my pay grade.
asciilifeform: i'm still hoping that i overlooked something, and that it can be disabled via civilized means
ben_vulpes: behavior tracker has my attention at the moment.
ben_vulpes: (or is that another "jam tomorrow"?)
asciilifeform: ?
asciilifeform: which behaviour
ben_vulpes: "peer ranker"
ben_vulpes: dun think the thing has a formal name yet. but that which is responsible for grading peers while syncing.
asciilifeform: as far as i can tell, there is no intelligence in it beyond the misbehave... crap
ben_vulpes: i speak of mircea_popescu's desired behavior.
asciilifeform: that will only make sense once the pipe itself is authenticable
asciilifeform: (gossip)
asciilifeform: right now, as i said, no one has any idea who he is talking to
ben_vulpes rolls eyes
asciilifeform: for all i know, i'm syncing from a stooge box planted only a few miles away at my isp
asciilifeform: and it is slow because philipinos have to crap out the diddled blocks by hand
ben_vulpes: and if thbox serves at a high bandwidth few bastards and blocks that all verify, why not prefer it over others?
asciilifeform: 'few bastards' is not a criterion while we're using the classical sync mechanism;
asciilifeform: e.g., mircea_popescu's box craps out as many bastards as anyone's
asciilifeform: on account of there being no intelligence whatsoever in the sync code
ben_vulpes: ah have ye tested that yet?
asciilifeform: i have the thing scrolling on own display
asciilifeform: have been watching it, on and off, since started
mats: http://newsexaminer.net/politics/sex-offenders-now-required-transparent-rainbows-profile-pictures
assbot: Sex Offenders Now Required To Have Transparent Rainbows On Their Profile Image - News Examiner - Examine Your World ... ( http://bit.ly/1BZnOdC )
ben_vulpes: "blonde, brunette, redhead..."
ben_vulpes is still curious about the block-vomiting process, and how bastards make it in
asciilifeform: mats: l0l, a new 'the onion'
mats: pretty good.
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 313 @ 0.00463062 = 1.4494 BTC [-] {10}
decimation: asciilifeform: I use plug-in electric lawnmower
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35700 @ 0.00039416 = 14.0715 BTC [-]
decimation: the cord is a little annoying but lack of co coming from exhaust is worthwhile
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> and it still runs in 'bursts.' << this is a very strange behaviour. what's 193k, like 3-5% ?
mircea_popescu: 'BLM Special Agent" ? what the fuck ? everyone in the us got their power rangers now ?
mircea_popescu: * asciilifeform has never been to 'burning man' thing and never really grasped the appeal << pretty much the ONLY remaining spot on the west coast to meet slovenly females that are undemanding.
mircea_popescu: your average adolescent male does not own a shirt. the female he'd be interested in dreams about waiting for "the right saudi prince".
mircea_popescu: imagine the tensions.
mircea_popescu: them silly kids will not really shoot for burning man, of course, but they'd be REALLY really sad in their corner if it went away.
mircea_popescu: "self reliance" = "we fuck in the dirt"
decimation: I wonder how long it will be until 'BLM special agents' start claiming sovereignty over their lands
mircea_popescu: in other news, i propose a petition to have the "Child Porn" utility removed from linux. why is not MauVe enough ?
mircea_popescu: only thing they do with CP is CI anyway.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30000 @ 0.00039876 = 11.9628 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform gets a confirmed kill https://sourceware.org/ml/libc-hacker/1999-08/msg00050.html drepper's the enemy.
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1eSLy8Z )
mircea_popescu: " nobody used the code for real " ; "I personally don't care at all how big static binaries are."
mircea_popescu: it's like a religion.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16776 @ 0.00040003 = 6.7109 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: "Nobody must use them except for very few exceptions and for those larger code size is ok."
decimation: heh
decimation: well, as we have discussed here before, the whole idea of shared libraries is kind of a fucktarded version of 'global namespaces'
mircea_popescu: not ~really~.
mircea_popescu: and i base myself on the fact that they worked pretty well in practice until the new generation of "reformist" idiots got involved, and put 'locale' as a concept in c.
mircea_popescu: before that existed, python worked fine, and static builds were trhe default and so on.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25400 @ 0.0004011 = 10.1879 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> linux ecosystem was drepperized so long ago that scarcely anyone remembers. << kinda why everyone is reacting with so much disbelief at the sudden "this is not acceptable". they had been doing it forever, gavin as a marginally retarded peripheral agent of the idiocy got totally blindsided by an armed insurection. that we'd pursue it is i suppose plainly unthinkable, the sort of thing the rmcgraths of th
mircea_popescu: e world were dreaming about in their cells twenty years ago, like my grandfather looking at the sky waiting for "the americans" to show up.
mircea_popescu: this is also why poettering et all so plainly expected it to work etc/
mircea_popescu: it all makes perfect sense, looking at it now. they look like patently insane if considered on the merits, but if considered culturally they are simply "i just work here" and "this is how the world works". about as insane as an ant.
mircea_popescu: and as decimation points out, yes we've agreed an ant's insane.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> the thing that boggles my mind is that rms ~must~ have known about the fifth column << you would have expected to read about it on his trilema, yes ? of what is this expectation built, if not out of the existence of trilema, and of the existence of mpoe-pr at my orders, and of the culture this engendered ? rms does not read trilema ; in his ignorance, trilema does not exist and same thing can not be rep
mircea_popescu: roduced for "reasons". and so he is in the unenviable position of one whom we do not doubt that behaves as one that is guilty - ie, must have known, said nothing ever.
mircea_popescu: <chetty> is it just me or does that machine sound a bit like mp? << o.O
mircea_popescu: "The exchange sheds further light on the latest work" << yeah. it sheds the following light : "work" by these wankers consists these days of outputting random strings from pre-made texts and trying to do a cute seleciton thereof.
mircea_popescu: it's so wrong it's not even cargo cult.
asciilifeform: thing is still running in (short) bursts, as before.
asciilifeform: plenty of outright disconnects, too
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-06-2015#1180407 << this is actually a very beautiful idea.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 18:04:02; asciilifeform: can reuse the 'checkpoint' code for this
asciilifeform: 209209.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's been in my head for a while now.
mircea_popescu: can this actually work for 1.1 ie next version ?
mircea_popescu: have a -checkpoint=111 -checkpointe=113 which takes blocks 111 to 113 hashes them dumps hash.
asciilifeform: really shouldn't be hard. when commanded, will piss out ascii text with block # <<>> hash
mircea_popescu: aye
mircea_popescu: to think that it's not already in there for crying out loud.
mircea_popescu: how have i lived before ?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-06-2015#1180430 << another worthy direction yes.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 18:10:04; ben_vulpes: dun think the thing has a formal name yet. but that which is responsible for grading peers while syncing.
asciilifeform: other thing, that will have to be added, imho, asap, is a non-retarded version of 'connect'
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-06-2015#1180433 << as you clearly notice, the pipe is authenticable does not equal gosspid : we can have out of band authenticifaction as per the above mechanism.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 18:10:46; asciilifeform: that will only make sense once the pipe itself is authenticable
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform also 1.1 ideally yes.
asciilifeform: where 1) can -connect to *multiple* boxes 2) does not as result wall off from inbound connections
asciilifeform: say i wanna cycle between mircea_popescu's 3 boxen
mircea_popescu: 1 before 2, yes.
mircea_popescu: the entire idea of what we are building here is NODE HIERARCHY.
asciilifeform: or say i wanna permit inbounds from lusers but never getblocks() from them
mircea_popescu: which is to say, i wish my node to connect only to people on THIS list, and let anyone connect to it.
decimation: asciilifeform: what about connecting something to a running bitcoind, siphoning off blocks as they are 'validated'?
decimation: re-index into sane database
mircea_popescu: then the ability of the wankers to poison the chain becomes nil : sure, whatever nodes listen to them listen to them. the infrastructure does not.
asciilifeform: decimation: that's plain old -connect
asciilifeform: decimation: or if you meant some oddball 'embrace & extend' of the sync protocol - yeah, we'll probably get there eventually
decimation: yeah I guess that's kinda what I mean
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-06-2015#1180438 << this would be so fucking great if it's the case.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 18:11:44; asciilifeform: and it is slow because philipinos have to crap out the diddled blocks by hand
mircea_popescu: those poor schmucks imagine.
decimation: implant probes into bitcoind to suck out its blocks
mircea_popescu: they had to murder the connection to buy themselves another 16 hours, because OMFG THEY'RE DOING WHAT ?!?!? NOW ?!?!
mircea_popescu: and now have to work it
mircea_popescu: ahhhh
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if enemy action indeed rather than the net being a ruinous ball of yarn - they were probably fuzzing for various protocol boojums
asciilifeform: of course, plain old reroute for snorting with derelict infrastructure would have similar 'molasses' effect..
asciilifeform: ^ the most likely picture
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-06-2015#1180453 << i use the same thing. co2 doesn't bother me much, however, i will go into the ss before i put up with that sort of wrist vibration.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 18:31:21; decimation: asciilifeform: I use plug-in electric lawnmower
mircea_popescu: i intend to remain able to type my entire lifespan.
decimation: well, the other reason I use electric: one less engine to maintain
asciilifeform: what kind of grass mircea_popescu cuts in his flat, lol
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in timisoara i had a garden recall ?
asciilifeform: aha!
asciilifeform: yes.
mircea_popescu: well, that.
decimation: no gas to store, no oil to change, etc
mircea_popescu: and it was about 1/4 ton of grass each cutting.
mircea_popescu: which means about 20 in a year, which the neighbours helpfully PUT OUTSIDE BY THEIR DUMPSTERS.
mircea_popescu: then went to supermarket and bought feed for the poor yard.
asciilifeform: l0l
mircea_popescu: then they will wish to know why isis comes and beheads them
mircea_popescu: and it will be an unexpolainable hatred, i'm sure.
decimation: mircea_popescu: generally here the received wisdom is that you want to leave grass clippings on the lawn
asciilifeform bbl, playing with pet
decimation: rots, recycles nutrients
mircea_popescu: decimation what i did was pile it all in a corner.
mircea_popescu: also rots. also provides nutrients. can be split up over the yard beforer first snow.
decimation: yeah, that works too
mircea_popescu: also attracts birds.
decimation: you can add kitchen scraps and wood clippings, make good compost
mircea_popescu: ideally you start it with a good offering of herbivore droppings.
decimation: that's a good idea
mircea_popescu: and i did add the wood clippings, ie, me cutting off an apple and a pear tree into shape over a coupla years, after having been neglected for 5ish
decimation: I've also heard of going to the nearest swamp and grabbing the muck
mircea_popescu: not very useful, for your thing will not be either that wet or that basic. very acidic
mircea_popescu: horsesht the only way to go.
decimation: yeah that's a good idea
decimation: ^ note that this is how people made fertiziler since the dawn of time
mircea_popescu: just don't put anything coniferous / wallnut in there.
mircea_popescu: like the ornamental tree stuffs.
mircea_popescu: "You don't have to boot frmo the CDROM. And if you need a router you have a network and therefore can connect to another machine."
mircea_popescu: Date: 19 Aug 1999 15:38:56 -0700
mircea_popescu: imo nsa of 1999 was much better organised than the crap of today.
mircea_popescu: For instance: #include <stdio.h> int main(int argc, char **argv) { printf ("Hello World\n"); } compiles to 985,018 bytes. This is almost all libc overhead.
mircea_popescu: what is it by now ? 4mb ?
decimation: heh
decimation: it's only 8.3k on mac osx
mircea_popescu: that's pretty good.
decimation: 6.4kbyte on redhat 6
decimation: that's shared linking though
mircea_popescu: nonono, static
decimation: heh 743kbyte on redhat
mircea_popescu: mmkay.
mircea_popescu: incredible that this "free world" thing has waited patiently, and incredibly quietly, for 25 years for us to show up. i imagine it will be very hurt in its hopes and aspirations when i spit in its mouth.
mircea_popescu: because truly, it was waiting for salvation! resisting through culture!
mircea_popescu: they really did mean to assassinate hitler!
mircea_popescu: just biding their time, waiting for a good opportunity, honest! wanted to do maximum damage, and as we all know, ~MAXIMUM~ damage is always in the future.
mircea_popescu: what's needed is a fucking ISCS. the intellectual state of computer science.
decimation: heh
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37819 @ 0.00040263 = 15.2271 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 110900 @ 0.00039366 = 43.6569 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23043 @ 0.0003933 = 9.0628 BTC [-]
punkman: ...and banks closed for a week, maybe.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41350 @ 0.0003933 = 16.263 BTC [-]
punkman: also first jackpot yesterday, burglars got away with some guy's safe containing 700k in cash/jewelry
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36650 @ 0.00040537 = 14.8568 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: 214873.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-06-2015#1180504 << still need it, to, e.g., keep lusers from taking shits into the mempool☝︎
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 19:13:22; mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-06-2015#1180433 << as you clearly notice, the pipe is authenticable does not equal gosspid : we can have out of band authenticifaction as per the above mechanism.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31619 @ 0.000407 = 12.8689 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27793 @ 0.00040714 = 11.3156 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32407 @ 0.0004092 = 13.2609 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39950 @ 0.0004092 = 16.3475 BTC [+]
chetty: asciilifeform, if my node only connects to your node mempool is safe right
asciilifeform: whose ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12950 @ 0.0004048 = 5.2422 BTC [-] {2}
chetty: mine
asciilifeform: depends on who got to crap in mine, doesnit.
chetty: yes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10820 @ 0.00039959 = 4.3236 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-06-2015#1180430 << another worthy direction yes. << not jam tomorrow, then?☝︎
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 18:10:04; ben_vulpes: dun think the thing has a formal name yet. but that which is responsible for grading peers while syncing.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: Misbehaving is p lulzy
ben_vulpes: great enumeration of badness
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-06-2015#1180453 <<< electric mower and whipper snipper seems like a recipe for trouble☝︎
assbot: Logged on 28-06-2015 18:31:21; decimation: asciilifeform: I use plug-in electric lawnmower
mats: i dun even have a lawn
mats: and i am glad
cazalla: i wish i could mow the lawn every day
mats: what are we talking about now
ben_vulpes: caz has a shaving fetish, gets razor burn, tries not to cry, cries a lot
mats: pretty tame compared to mp's interests
cazalla: a shaving fetish.. that's a first.. gotta google this one
cazalla: who would've guessed.. manshavingfetish.blogspot.com.au
ben_vulpes: heh.
ben_vulpes: rule 48.
cazalla: seriously though, i enjoy mowing the lawn, that fresh cut look, the smell, the goodies for my compost
mats: i dunno what i expected when i clicked that
mats: insta regret
cazalla: mats, just don't drop dead in front of PC with that page open eh
mats: "There are still too many people out there who think (or even insist) that static linking has benefits. This has never been the case and never will be the case." this guy...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10100 @ 0.00039431 = 3.9825 BTC [-] {2}
trinque: a yard sale was selling a mac performa for five bucks... so now I own one of those
trinque shrugs
trinque: maybe fun for old mac games
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30388 @ 0.00040896 = 12.4275 BTC [+]
trinque: hypercard "player" ?
trinque: wtf is this shit
asciilifeform: trinque: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=658
assbot: Loper OS » How to Run HyperCard Under Emulation ... ( http://bit.ly/1QXIxoO )
asciilifeform: get the real one
asciilifeform: (as seen in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=568 )
assbot: Loper OS » Why Hypercard Had to Die ... ( http://bit.ly/1QXIx8g )
trinque: sweet, ty
cazalla: dat wicked sense of humour https://twitter.com/abuuomar428/status/614714028368232448
trinque: asciilifeform: it does seem as per your write-up, that there was a far more inventive apple once upon a time, which jobs put to a stop in favor of iOS appification
asciilifeform: trinque: hypercard was written by 1 guy
asciilifeform: (initially)
asciilifeform: so not 'more inventive apple'
trinque: ah
asciilifeform: just less actively retarded
trinque: would this one take that microexplorer card?
trinque: not that I've been able to find one anywhere online
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4150 @ 0.00039412 = 1.6356 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: microexplorer ?
trinque: lisp machine board for the mac of some sort
asciilifeform: you may be thinking of symbolics's 'macivory'
asciilifeform: you can get these from dave schmidt, virginia, usa
trinque: that's another I think
asciilifeform: 'explorer' was the crappy texas instruments lispm
asciilifeform: (they were among the original mit licensees, yes)
trinque: http://lemonodor.com/archives/2002/10/ti_microexplore.html
assbot: Lemonodor: TI microExplorer ... ( http://bit.ly/1RJR8qc )
trinque: ah k
asciilifeform: it is barely a step above the original 'cadr' machine
asciilifeform: 'macivory' was on the other hand pretty much as good as it got
trinque: only purpose of this archaelogical dig is my own historical education
asciilifeform: http://www.symbolics-dks.com << if you want one, talk to this fella
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1RJR9KV )
asciilifeform: it'll be somewhere south of 2k usd
asciilifeform: (last i checked. which was some years ago.)
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I've used a couple. I like the strong lines they put in the grass, but they cut so short
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53347 @ 0.00040923 = 21.8312 BTC [+] {3}
trinque: ah turns out it had an original hypercard already on there from 1996
trinque: and flying toasters!
trinque: what else does a guy need