ninjashogun: If bitcoin is used for 100 years, will anyone who participates have to download every single transactoin, ever, down to today?
ninjashogun: if the blockchain is already 20 GB, then in a year or two will it be like 100 GB - just to be part of the network?
deadweasel: you may not survive the year, nor me nor anybody elese
jurov: ninjashogun: it will be pruned to store only most recent outputs and all the rest will be archived
deadweasel: you can trust him, he traveleth the time.
jurov: and even if not, 100GB of SSD isn't unaffordable, I hope
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.11950724 = 0.239 BTC [-]
jurov: btw, I'm running btc and ltc and atc nodes off one 320gb spinning rust. seems to work fine
ninjashogun: I'm talking with a collaborator about crypto currencies and varoius exchanges, etc.
ninjashogun: Are mastercoin in here (a nick) for example? etc.
ozbot: Master Protocol & Mastercoin
Mats_cd03: 20:06 <ninjashogun> Are mastercoin in here (a nick) for example? etc. <<< huh
Mats_cd03: anyways people in here generally dont care about altchains
Mats_cd03: oh whoops i must have misunderstood the idea
ninjashogun: Mats_cd03, I meant is a nick from one of the contributors in here. I should have asked in #bitcoin
CheckDavid: Mats_cd03: is master coin an alt chain @
Mats_cd03: i'm confused by the website, "Mastercoin To Create New Altcoins In Bitcoin’s Block Chain" is the title of a press release
ninjashogun: (by the way CheckDavid and I are on skype now, and we may be collaborating on the jobs thing. I talked with him for a couple of hours total, don't know him personally yet but we're on skype.)
ninjashogun: This is just in the interest of full disclosure.
benkay: jurov: some days don't you feel like "fuck hardware"?
benkay: aws has all this damn storage and compute
benkay: i know crypto on cloud is anathema but OOOOH THE TEMPTATION
ozbot: Urban Dictionary: docking
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19000 @ 0.00095527 = 18.1501 BTC [+] {3}
gribble: Error: "first" is not a valid command.
Mats_cd03: mixing smegma is the most intimate moment one can share with another man
benkay: gribble needs a ;;first to complement ;;seen
CheckDavid: Mats_cd03: but I think master coin doesn't have any alt chain
Mats_cd03: (useful for e-voting as per prev. discussion, and maybe even useful for reducing the size of the blockchain in the future)
benkay: how so reduce size of blockchain?
CheckDavid: If I interpreted what you meant by that properly
Mats_cd03: CheckDavid: i speak from a place of ignorance re: mastercoin so dont mind me
CheckDavid: But yeah. I am not talking about just some random alt
CheckDavid: It's supposedly a protocol that adds a lot of value to btc
benkay: and i guess bitcoin is just a protocol and so this thing is additively good
CheckDavid: And it's definitely using the btc block chain
CheckDavid: Now of its valuable , that's subjective as all value is
cazalla: can you trade bitcoons on the massahcoin network?
Mats_cd03: (wouldnt ever work, occurred to me without evidence)
assbot: [HAVELOCK:HIF] 1D: 0.00047505 / 0.00048074 / 0.00050498 (131 shares, 0.06297634 BTC), 7D: 0.00039967 / 0.00047559 / 0.00051299 (9474 shares, 4.50576619 BTC), 30D: 0.00038802 / 0.0005072 / 0.00057500 (66406 shares, 33.68111884 BTC)
nubbins`: from what i can tell, they're about an order of magnitude off their trading volume predictions
nubbins`: i gotta say, i'm happy with my internet service
nubbins`: it's not often i straight-up download large files
nubbins`: so i don't always appreciate it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32333 @ 0.00095571 = 30.901 BTC [+] {2}
blackwhite: what do you think is the best wallet design you have seen, visually?
ninjashogun: blackwhite - you mean physical (like leather) wallets?
ninjashogun: and what they're doing, whether trustworthy, etc
Duffer1: ninja you can trust them to list every scam in the space
Duffer1: they probably make so much money off it that they haven't yet decided to just run with the money
ninjashogun: let's flip it around. Would a serious company that had traditoinal real-world financing rounds (convertible note, or equity offering with shareholder's agreement with a real VC) ever list on there?
ninjashogun: I meant to write the word "options" instead of the word "rounds"
TestingUnoDosTre: So apparently I've been living under a bush for a while, but the creator of Candy Crush was apparently successful at generating cash flow?
BingoBoingo: ninjashogun: Cryptostocks/Vircurex just did clawbacks in yet another operator enacted scam
ninjashogun: However, I will say one thing. At a macro level there is no FDIC, nor bailout.
BingoBoingo: Well, can any platform that does such a thing be taken seriously?
ninjashogun: The reason is that actions are judged on the basis of their consequences.
ninjashogun: Now it should have been practicing PROPER opsec.
ninjashogun: It could have done something even stronger: "We will now be fractional-reserve, the way all banks in the United States have operated for 100 years. We will not hold as many bitcoins physically as are in our accounts - nor make up the deficit."
Apocalyptic: but they can't even satisfy withdrawals now
Apocalyptic: that's why they are locking the balances, they've been operating fractional for years
Apocalyptic: ninjashogun, are you not reading the statement ?
ninjashogun: It said "We will get back to 100% reserve bank, owning as many bitcoins physically as people have on account. To get back up to that level we will take the profit from our operations and use it to build up the fractional level."
ninjashogun: Apocalyptic, according to that statement, ALL people will be paid back eventually.
BingoBoingo: In spite of raising 3000 some BTC in an "IPO"
benkay: lol "all people will be paid back"
ninjashogun: wait, we can judge whether this has any chance of being true
benkay: man if i had a btc for every time i've read that
benkay: i judge stochastically these days ninjashogun
BingoBoingo: ninja they have been a known shit heap since roughly February 2012
ninjashogun: they raised 3000 btc in an IPO. That means that is free cash for them - they sold equity?
benkay: 99% likelihood nobody gets paid back.
ninjashogun: But if they shut down, that 99% becomes 100%.
BingoBoingo: They got hacked, "IPO'd", got hacked again, started paying interest on deposits, and now this.
ninjashogun: Let me make an analogy. (I might have the facts totally wrong). IN the seventies or eighties (no real idea on the decade, I'm guessing) the U.S. found that some third-world country had either stolen some of the mint's machinery, or gotten their hands on perfect reproductions. It could make undetectable counterfeit dollar bills.
ninjashogun: What did they do - did they shut down all of the then-current series?
ninjashogun: No. They just let the counterfeiters print at the limiting capacity of those presses, taking the hit on the total money supply.
ninjashogun: That is probably a better outcome than if they had "abandoned the dollar" due to its dilution by fake dollars.
benkay: what do you think mo: is a scam a scam?
ninjashogun: Likewise, if a currency does get hacked, it is probably better to become fractional-reserve, or freeze accounts, or play other shenanigans, than just say, "Well we're gone now, bye, and thanks"
moiety: benkay: not if its called a ponzi
BingoBoingo: ninjashogun: This isn't a currency getting hacked.
ninjashogun: CheckDavid says (we're on skype) he doesn't get my point
BingoBoingo: This is a business admitting its business model is incompatible with reality and failing to take the last necessary action.
ninjashogun: My point is just that from among the alternatives, shutting down the exchange is guaranteed to have the worst possible outcome for lenders/creditors. (people who put thehir bitcoins or usd in.)
Mats_cd03: sure if you are the operator and you are honest then yes that is how it proceeds
moiety: do you think kakobrekla can make an ignore that works on the logs too?
ninjashogun: BingoBoingo, do you mean because vircurex is making it up?
Mats_cd03: what incentive does a new customer have to become a part of a known weak exchange?
benkay: moiety! stop trolling!
Mats_cd03: do you expect depositors to behave like their risk profile didnt just go up?
BingoBoingo: ninjashogun: I mean the thing they need to do is stop, and the time for them to have done so was last winter
benkay: i want an ignore that works on anyone who's unrated by people i've rated
ninjashogun: Mats_cd03, no, but I think that you will find in looking at Fiat that the fact that the money supply is unilaterally increased by letting banks put more into circulation than existed - and that the rate of this is a total unknown - does not deter people from using and holding USD.
moiety: but that would mean me too for now
ninjashogun: (More specificlaly, it does deter people from holding USD, but not entirely.)
moiety: i will change this though
benkay: maybe nag nano to let you auth with doge or something ;)
benkay: that's the really silly thing about not getting in the wot
benkay: it only takes a btc addy
Mats_cd03: nobody cares about the size of the bitcoin money supply
moiety: i would quite like my wot untainted :P
moiety: we did make bitcoinmagazine in other news
gribble: yes I am gribble. why do you keep bothering me?
ninjashogun: Mats_cd03, well what is the PRIMARY issue with putting your bitcoin in a site that is currently freezing someone else's bitcoins? Look at that and you will see, some people may still put some of their bitocins in.
ninjashogun: Mats_cd03, would anyone ever put their bitcoins onto a site that is currently freezing somebody else's bitcoins - and they know this?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.64797672 = 4.5358 BTC [+] {3}
moiety: Did Izzy ever re-appear? sorry i wasn't around
gribble: Izzy_ was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 3 days, 16 hours, 49 minutes, and 50 seconds ago: <Izzy_> ok
ninjashogun: Mats_cd03, we know for a fact that with real currencies the answer is "yes". We know because people used paypal when paypal froze merchant's accounts and ruined their businesses. We know because people use US Banks when US Banks freeze people's accounts while they're under investigatoin. etc.
benkay: difference there being 0.01% get fucked vs. 100% get fucked in this situation.
Duffer1: ninjashogun cryptostocks continued operation is a gross violation of common sense, morality, and probably most jurisdiction's laws
benkay: cryptostocks continued operation is a gross violation of thermodynamics.
BingoBoingo: benkay: I don't think it is proper to separate the shenanigans of the two
Mats_cd03: nobody cares about the continued operation per se; its the continued damage to the reputation of legitimate operators within the ecosystem
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 70 @ 0.00630873 = 0.4416 BTC [-] {2}
Duffer1: that and the certain damage to future unwary participants in the exchange
Mats_cd03: besides which, there is no incentive for new customers in lieu of a new risk profile
benkay: fuck 'em all, let everyone drown.
benkay: it's a rotten ship and they're all rats.
Mats_cd03: paypal and usg having a number of such incentives that enable them to operate like thugs
benkay: Mats_cd03: tack another three order of magnitude on for thuggery.
Mats_cd03: also, something about conflating deposits in a exchange with actual currency...
Mats_cd03: reconsidering whether or not im being trolled tbqh
ninjashogun: "We had enough coin balances in our cold wallet to upkeep our platform and the positive cashflow enabled us to gradually refill the wallets.
ninjashogun: Unfortunately we had large fund withdrawals in the last weeks which have lead to a complete depletion of our cold wallet balance and we are now facing the option of either closing the site with significant unrecoverable losses for all or to work out a solution that allows the exchange to continue to operate and gradually pay back the losses. "
ninjashogun: I never thought I'd see this in my lifetime :) :) :)
moiety: what the absolute fuck
ninjashogun: moiety, you know the history of banks in the United States (and elswhere) right
moiety: ninjashogun: why yes, only yesterday i learned the voice of siri was the voice for the very first atm (tillie the teller i believe) << such history
blackwhite: someone would make a killing setting up a 24/7 security company watching over those online wallets
moiety: sigh* why do you ask ninjashogun
blackwhite: how the fuck can their security be so bad? Or is it just the hackers who are that good?
moiety: or hidden answer c. scamming fucks
BingoBoingo: blackwhite: Vircurex was hacked way back during Winter 2012-Spring 2013
TestingUnoDosTre: quick poll here: How long does it take for all of you to type "We were hacked for XX,XXX BTC."
BingoBoingo: blackwhite: In their case the culprit seemed to be Ruby on Rails
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 10 @ 0.055035 = 0.5504 BTC [-] {3}
kakobrekla: <blackwhite> someone would make a killing setting up a 24/7 security company watching over those online wallets < - is this opening asciis parachute after you have hit the ground?
Apocalyptic: blackwhite, when you notice the theft it's already too late
blackwhite: yeah sure. But I am pretty sure one of the problems is that they are not looking and monitoring all the time
blackwhite: so I am saying setup a company who look for suspicius deals or have a whitelist of larger transactions. (i.e. tell this company when you are going to make larger transactions)
radan: can I wager money on mpoe
Apocalyptic: "have a whitelist of larger transactions." what ?
Apocalyptic: and what prevents the theif from withdrawing a lot in small amounts ,
radan: what does "trades above 0.001 BTC " mean
radan: btc instead of dollars
ninjashogun: like the way ice cream can cost $0.75 for example, it could cost a certain amount of BTC 0.001 or whatever
radan: so mpoe's had an ipo
radan: and people are buying stock in it
blackwhite: Apocalyptic i get how it works and nothing prevents them from removing a lot of small amount other than that kind of consitution the same as a large amount. If they have to do it over a month then I would most probably know.
radan: why don't banks do this
gribble: Error: You don't have the network.whois capability. If you think that you should have this capability, be sure that you are identified before trying again. The 'whoami' command can tell you if you're identified.
radan: besides that they probably have tons of cash to play around with in usd
TestingUnoDosTre: do the mods at bitbet work certain hours of the day, or are they more like round clock rotation type
radan: someone bet 600,000 that bitcoin will beat berkshire hathaway
radan: maybe they know something we don't
copumpkin: radan: the someone was the last message before you said that
MisterE: Finally someone is making a derivatives market!
MisterE: I hope this is the stability we've been looking for
moiety: i sent someone to bitbet today. i linked them and they still searched google and tried .com. conclusion: some people can't be helped.
radan: maybe I should bet .1 btc on that bet
radan: if I win, then I get 2.8 bitcoin
MisterE: my first time to bitbet I hit .com too
moiety: doesn't look like she has everre-appeared
moiety: i did think on emailing her, but .. life.
radan: but my whole life savings is in btc
radan: if I lose .1 btc I'd be down 60 actual dollars
mircea_popescu: MisterE you know we had a derivatives market for about two years, and yes it did bring plenty of stability heh
radan: I guess it's a better investment than keeping in my wallet doing nothing
radan: alright, I'll do it
moiety: ;; later tell Izzy_ Do you still need help?
ninjashogun: mircea_popescu, or even default swaps for example?
radan: how do I bet on bitbet
MisterE: please retype the internet into IRC for me :p
MisterE: what do you mean mircea_popescu ?
TestingUnoDosTre: I wish you could trade default swaps on bitcoin companies... like virtuex
CheckDavid: mircea_popescu: do you know about Master coin ?
duduqa: Have you ever considered creating an alt-channel #bitcoin-assets-stupid for beginners, people with learning disabilities etc like myself?
CheckDavid: Any short comments on it mircea_popescu ?
ninjashogun: given that there's no due dilligence that can be done. no contracts that can be enforced. no sec. no proof you're not getting scammed. and every listing on crypto stocks is a scam. and the OPERATOR is a scammer. ......... how is anyone investing? How is the market 'clearing' (bid meets ask)
mircea_popescu: TestingUnoDosTre yeah, because the counterparties would be solvent, in that paralel universe where idiots have infinite bitcoins
CheckDavid: You mean doesn't do much yet. Or it won't do much of anything in the near future?
TestingUnoDosTre: you could sell them in neat little batches with different risk profiles... it would be a paradise
ninjashogun: CheckDavid, come to #bitcoins-assets-stupid with me and duduqa
CheckDavid: Exchange currencies without risk of scam at the trade level
radan: is multibit secure?
ninjashogun: wait I do want an answer to my question above on why anyone would invest in crypto stocks - don't people with money to invest have standards?
ninjashogun: given that there's no due dilligence that can be done. no contracts that can be enforced. no sec. no proof you're not getting scammed. and every listing on crypto stocks is a scam. and the OPERATOR is a scammer. ......... how is anyone investing?
moiety: you just listed reasons why you haven't found investment yourself there ninjashogun
BingoBoingo: radan: I prefer 0.5.11 to newer multibit releases
mircea_popescu: who the fuck thought someone wants a mentor they've never met.
ninjashogun: moiety- I have not listed on any crypto stock site.
moiety: thats not what i meant
ninjashogun: moeity - I was kind of invited by someone - not sure if he's a scammer. (that means he probably is.)
moiety: lovely for you ninjashogun, invited where? make sure he sees you home like a gentleman
MisterE: MP: I see that monthly statement, bummer month, but anyways what am I missing about a derivatives connection? the bonds market?
radan: this feels pretty momentous
ninjashogun: I mean, I forget the name of the link, but it has the term "fyrstikken" in it.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves yeah, everyone's trying to pass off bucket shop bullshit for "derivatives"
MisterE: yea they are but a robust derivatives market is more than options
ninjashogun: and I was introduced to him explicitly by someone.
MisterE: I dont think I'm understanding everything I'm reading there
mircea_popescu: the various stocks either don't have enough volume or, for the non-mpex crowd, arten't actually stocks, don't even publish statements etc
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves what difference do yo uhave in mind there ?
ThickAsThieves: referring to diff futures etc not being the same as USD btc options
mircea_popescu: but from what i've seen these people were trying to sell icbit-style "futures" on the usd
ozbot: Online casino - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
radan: unless you live in nevada you can probably use it, I gather
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i'd really love to see the chinese files on nato
MisterE: ThickAsThieves: you're talking abotu Tera?
ThickAsThieves: "The first way is as follows, since 80% of the Icelandic population is on Facebook, Icelandic citizens will be able to claim their coins simply by logging into Facebook through a gateway."
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell MykelSIlver it makes relatively little difference what software bitbet.us runs, as webserver doesn't really hold coins anywya
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla: i was actually contemplating just copy pasting the output of current wp in a html file << notrly such a bad idea.
ThickAsThieves: it makes a difference if the site can be compromised and depsot addressed get mitm'd
mircea_popescu: well it doesn't run wordpress afaik, but that's no absolute guarantee.
mircea_popescu: concerned parties are advised to send some dust first, that'll verify the address and lock it down
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19400 @ 0.00095224 = 18.4735 BTC [-] {2}
ThickAsThieves: "The second way for an Icelandic citizen to receive their auroracoins will be through SMS. The person’s cell phone number will then be matched with their National ID number and once verified the user will receive their auroracoins."
ozbot: Judge Joe Brown Arrested and Jailed for Contempt of Court
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell benkay that salt stuff sounds like unintended malleability.
MisterE: pretty much everyone I know gets hacked for the first time using WordPress
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo cou, being, of course, ass. in french. so contempt of cou...
radan: damn, iceland's pretty smart
radan: this is like giving every man a farm so he can work productively
MisterE: yea I wanted to move to Iceland for long time now
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well, of all of the things to have drawn contempt from, asses might not be that bad
radan: I don't think you can, MisterE
radan: Iceland's pretty tight on immigration unless you're rich or a refugee
MisterE: yea not unless you're Scandanavian resident already
radan: I presume you want to go there because they have a stable society
moiety: i like to top comment re judge judy BingoBoingo
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 35 @ 0.00299999 = 0.105 BTC [+]
radan: but consider that the reason for this is that everyone shares significant ethnic and cultural bonds you are not privy to
MisterE: and Iceland is on the same track so in retrospect I'm glad I stayed put
TestingUnoDosTre: If anyone finds a version of that bitcoin swaps article that contains comments about the winklevoss brothers, please send it to me. I read it earlier today and broke out laughing, but I can't find it now :(
bones`: My hometown shining star of Reality TV, mircea_popescu
bones`: He just gets loud and says catchphrases
bones`: He looks like 5 miles of bad road if you ask me
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: He was one of those daytime shows that keep those with nothing to do during the day sated in between ration tickets.
TestingUnoDosTre: apparently, he was an actual criminal judge for a county back in the day
mircea_popescu: deadweasel finance couldn't be abandoned, i dont think. merely reduced to it's bare bones.
TestingUnoDosTre: I would rather my county have a pompous tv personality judge than a real hard ass judge
radan: hopefully I won't need to eat those 60 bucks anytime soon
mircea_popescu: currently there's one valuable person per bank office : the credits officer. he's the guy that makes the call if lending is a good idea.
mircea_popescu: everyone else just pushes paper, does forms and bs. that could be done away with
BingoBoingo: Joe Brown is one of those cases of if you stare too deep into the ghetto, you eventually become ghetto
mircea_popescu: cut 99.5% of the workforce woreking in a bank, increase salaries for the remainder 10 to 100x
radan: consider that the purpose of a business (from a societal, not individual viewpoint) is to keep as many people as busy as possible
ThickAsThieves: i read an article today that says like 30% down or something
radan: that's one of the metrics the government likes to use
ozbot: More Than 30% Of Americans Haven't Visited A Bank In The Last Six Months
mircea_popescu: radan government can stand on its head. businessmen decide what business is.
radan: in a perfect world, yea
gribble: Error: The "Later" plugin is loaded, but there is no command named "peterl" in it. Try "list Later" to see the commands in the "Later" plugin.
radan: but governments tend to monopolize force
MisterE: lending officers rarely are located in branches anymore
radan: and use it like a club to beat on anyone who's not following their "recommendations"
MisterE: they mostly rely on computer algorithms and usually give the go ahead from some corporate HQ
moiety: i'm only ever in my bank when i need to shout at them for fucking something up
mircea_popescu: i wonder how long before that berkshire bet collects 1k on no side
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20889 @ 0.00095455 = 19.9396 BTC [+] {2}
radan: I thought betting yes would return 28x
radan: it only returns 1x and some change?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9088 @ 0.00095652 = 8.6929 BTC [+] {3}
radan: trolled by my own reading comprehension
mircea_popescu: a good policy is perhaps to never bet the day you discover a bet
ThickAsThieves: I have a celendar reminder to review bitbet every 3 days
radan: maybe I'll invest the same amount in the other direction to cancel it out
mircea_popescu: you don't need the same ammt, read the article about how to cancel
duduqa: Colombia to "ban" bitcoin
mircea_popescu: duduqa i had no idea colombia actually can ban things. didn't they fail with cocaine ?
MisterE: radan: you're the kind of man they give free trips to Vegas to :p
duduqa: mircea_popescu: I said "ban" exactly because of that
MisterE: betting both sides, the house loves you :)
mircea_popescu: MisterE no actually, betting both sides is the way to play.
MisterE: you have a fee so you're always out then
ozbot: BitBet - May I suggest 9B difficulty?
mircea_popescu: perfectly legit way to make cash. liquidity providing, as it were.
MisterE: I'm afraid to look into it another time sink!
mircea_popescu: yeah this isn't for amateurs. raw power, so it requires solid understanding of what's going on.
MisterE: the more I hear you guys chatter about it the more likely will though heh
benkay: i still don't actually understand how to actually play parimutuel odds
MisterE: I do remember briefly reading the site and what exactly a yes or no could mean was very difficult to determine sometimes
MisterE: even with the outcome explaination
moiety: way more fun to learn than say fucking javascript
MisterE: benkay: I understand that as the first few people who are in share the winnings
radan: then I win either way
radan: god, this is awesome
radan: it's like a license to print money
benkay: moiety it can't be that hard to learn to say fucking javascript
benkay: pretty sure that's the first thing i learned when i started working with javascript as a matter of fact.
moiety: not hard, just tedious benkay . i think i have the fucking javascript up part totally down
benkay: javascript and python feel like guns that just want to point at my feet
benkay: i'm out here trying to kill some bison to feed my people and my damn gun just won't stop pointing at my foot
moiety: python can just go slither away until i have a dev chained to a raditor somewhere
duduqa: gotta go, folks, have a goof day/night
radan: let's say the payout for yes on a given bet is 1.5
radan: and no's is, say, 20
radan: what stops you from betting 1 on yes
radan: then you either make back what you made or win 10 btc
benkay: radan: you've discovered hedging.
moiety: did anjiecast ever come in?
moiety: what name? how did i miss that :/
radan: actually, that's not possible on any of the bets up right now
benkay: i scared her off, moiety
moiety: ah, lol i did see that :P
radan: unless the bet payouts increase in either direction
radan: that can't happen tho
Mats_cd03: you don't have to type every thought that comes into your head
moiety: it is a big channel, it was perhaps just all the eyes
radan: if some newbie reads the log and thinks he can print money based on what I said 10 mins ago, I'd like to help him out by telling him it's impossible
moiety: i can serve cosmopolitans and offer to burn bras at the door if required
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35116 @ 0.00095236 = 33.4431 BTC [-] {5}
TestingUnoDosTre: radan, the statement below the calculator is quite important to read "after fees, at current weight and assuming no one else bets"
mike_c: everybody is going to get in on that proposed NBA finals bet as soon as it's approved.
MisterE: so you have to shore up your bets as it comes close to closing time for them
TestingUnoDosTre: like drop some more BTC on your same bet? what do you mean by shore up
radan: what stops people from arming militants or buying drugs with btc
radan: besides the low daily convertible volume
Mats_cd03: why should anything stop people from those things
radan: so either they do happen
moiety: who says it is stopped radan?
radan: or the kind of people who do that kind of stuff don't know about bitcoin
moiety: fed bought abrin off a teenager with btc
moiety: point is they can be stupid using fiat or btc, it's not the issue
radan: bitcoin should start accepting bitcoin
radan: or maybe they already do
radan: but only the saudis know what address they use :/
TestingUnoDosTre: corrupt us politicians should start accepting bitcoin, or maybe they already do
ozbot: 5.007 billion | Next Diff in 1987 blocks | Estimated Change: 49.6388% in 6d 22h 30m 43s
moiety: that video is actually circulating with fake subs re Fred Pherlps death
radan: the potential of all this is only just now dawning on me
benkay: give it a year, the mindfucks slow down eventually but don't stop.
benkay: you don't even have to wrap your head around the monster that was mpoe.
benkay: you're simply outrageous, mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: ;;google are you the simply outrageous brain specialist
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33217 @ 0.00094812 = 31.4937 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18850 @ 0.00094794 = 17.8687 BTC [-]
mike_c: the20year: how's business? any new houses?
moiety: has anyone here used Subversion?
mike_c: probably lots (including me)
moiety: its specifically for giving remote ssh access to one domain only rather than the whole hosting account. i can use git for that?
moiety: whats wrong with subversion?
mike_c: nothing. just centralized vs. decentralized git/mercurial.
Apocalyptic: mike_c, also the fact that svn handles branches awfully
mike_c: well, mercurial can't do shallow clones.
the20year: mike_c: i'm not sure where hte last update was here. We have 6 total properties either purchased or in contract. closed on #4 today, supposed to close on #5 any day now. #6 closes the 7th of next month
mike_c: planning on more purchases?
moiety: i thought i always wanted decentralized on everything?
mike_c: i think you can build source control into an altcoin.
the20year: Yeah, definately. really would like to do a flip here soon but i don't have a any good candidates for that right now. Got a few duplexes I'm looking at, one is $27k the other is $39.9k
mike_c: the20year: and congrats on 6. the ipo was helpful then?
Apocalyptic: the20year, where are you buying these flats ?
the20year: Yes, very helpful , we've got a few great announcements coming up. Still have 100ish BTC left in reserves for another property
the20year: One of the candidates we barely miss was just re-listed. They bought it for $52k, I imagine put $10k or less in it and have it on the market for $119k
mike_c: i'll take the duplex for 27.
the20year: I have to take a look at it, we might be able to get it for $20k or so. they bought it in 2006 and managed it quite poorly. tenant burnt down a garage and they gave it up
the20year: Well , gave up on being a landlord
mike_c: having your garage burnt down could do that :)
the20year: I'm gonna bet they didn't carry insurance
the20year: We on the otherhand carry half a million dollars on each property, and then are applying for a $2m-$3m blanket for the company itself
assbot: [HAVELOCK:RENT] 1D: 0.00525000 / 0.00557689 / 0.00563480 (119 shares, 0.66365036 BTC), 7D: 0.00520000 / 0.00543286 / 0.00568460 (2290 shares, 12.44126039 BTC), 30D: 0.00510111 / 0.00555894 / 0.00900001 (50160 shares, 278.83621664 BTC)
the20year: Well , it's half a mill per occupant, then premises of no less than 80%. best thing on earth would be for a house to be burnt to the ground without anyone hurt :D it's amazing to me how much they insure our properties for
the20year: The property we just bought for $70k has a rebuild value of something like $275k
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves check it out, this dood would like to make a bet provided mpoe-pr doesn't pay for it in bitcoin and she agrees that no bet can be made.
benkay: interesting how RENT performs as it converts its BTC-denominated assets to USD-denominated assets.
the20year: and thankfully over all this volatility we've cashed out at higher BTC:USD values
rithm: bets on tops of bets!?!?!
nubbins`: just finished watching Contact
rithm: beets stain my teeth
mircea_popescu: but on the heels of the jimmothy O I BET YOU !!11 10 bitcents!11
ozbot: Poland Is Quietly Mobilizing Its Army Reservists | Zero Hedge
mircea_popescu: roughly the equivalent of mpoe-pr going tyre kicking around berkshire with stuff like "o this is a good investment you bigmouth ?!?! what sort of odds do you give bitcoi nbeats you ? 100:1 ? "
MisterE_: sugar beets are good for all kinds of stuff
the20year: i thought they began mobilization last week
MisterE: what will Romania do if fighting breaks out in the Ukraine with Crimea?
MisterE: I guess nobody will do nothing without EU / nato
the20year: poland has 500k+ in reserve, mobilizing 7k for practice doesn't seem too huge to me
mircea_popescu: there's a us base in constanta, which i guess the us will have to defend
mircea_popescu: and i very much doubt romania cxan be bothered ot invade either moldova or cernauti
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 966 @ 0.00299999 = 2.898 BTC [+] {2}
chetty: this may be the war where everyone stayed home
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20138 @ 0.00094797 = 19.0902 BTC [+]
the20year: 1 on 1 robot wars to settle boundary disputes?
ozbot: 5.007 billion | Next Diff in 1984 blocks | Estimated Change: 31.0849% in 9d 11h 40m 22s
benkay: robo combat's a bit of a trope at this point, the20year
MisterE: Pacific Rim was forgettable
nubbins`: trying to choose between wall street, glengarry glen ross, episode 1 of new cosmos, or bed
mike_c: always glengarry glen ross
Apocalyptic: <nubbins`> heard it's a piece of shit << it's way worse actually
ThickAsThieves: i watched gravity last night, that was actually pretty good
ThickAsThieves: it is what you think it is, but somehow it doesnt suck
nubbins`: that's the audio virus whatsit?
nubbins`: but without the statutory rape
MisterE: horror / thriller is not usually a genre I consider
cazalla: the scene in Frozen with the wolves, zomg
cazalla: oh wait, that is something else
ozbot: The Signal (2014) - IMDb
cazalla: oh, there is a 2012 movie with the same name
cazalla: and yes, Safety Not Guaranteed was great imo
cazalla: i thought it was going to be shit but it was a pleasant surprise
ozbot: My squash has developed an new defense mechanism - Imgur
nubbins`: the first cube movie was good (though poorly acted). rest of em were pretty meh
nubbins`: cube 3.14159265358979323846: sphere
nubbins`: i think that last one is a 6, anyway
nubbins`: watching the bletchley circle now
nubbins`: that was the one that was all white?
Apocalyptic: ThickAsThieves, have you seen Black Mirror ?
nubbins`: so silvergoldbull (canadian bullion dealer) now accepts btc, but i can't figure out where they're getting their rates from
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15700 @ 0.00095478 = 14.99 BTC [+]
MisterE: looks like there could be suckage
nubbins`: ever see funny games? the 1997 one?
nubbins`: put it on your list, it's fucked
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15700 @ 0.00095253 = 14.9547 BTC [-]
nubbins`: buddy of mine is a big horror/creepshow buff, threw it on for me once
nubbins`: they remade it (the original is austrian) but i've only seen the original
ThickAsThieves: the only movies so far that creep me out to turning them off are japanese though
ThickAsThieves: i like when jiggly butt girl is there to greet me at kat.ph
nubbins`: our women are tired of boys, they want men
nubbins`: i can only assume people click on them, but i'm not sure why
nubbins`: our site has too many hot women, men join for free
nubbins`: ^ what a problem to have, hey?
nubbins`: "man this sucks, all of our users are young wet hotties. we need some dick up in here"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.003 = 0.15 BTC [-]
ozbot: Urban Dictionary: TANJ
nubbins`: k, gonna try wall street. wish me wakefulness, it's late
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 100 @ 0.003 = 0.3 BTC [-] {2}
ozbot: Alleged Silk Road Founder's Mother Speaks Out - YouTube
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6400 @ 0.00095478 = 6.1106 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.62303029 = 6.2303 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 271 @ 0.00314258 = 0.8516 BTC [+] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 105 @ 0.0031988 = 0.3359 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 25 @ 0.00553475 = 0.1384 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8063 @ 0.00095253 = 7.6802 BTC [-]
ozbot: Dark Arts | The Verge
VanCleef: so Putin opened a new account at Rossiya and his monthly salary to be transferred there instead. lolz obama pwnd
MisterE: it's great to see for a change
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6200 @ 0.00094943 = 5.8865 BTC [-]
ozbot: Gerry Images | F.A.T.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.0675 = 0.27 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4800 @ 0.00095059 = 4.5628 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 18 @ 0.61549767 = 11.079 BTC [-] {8}
chetty: they should revoke the guys passport
MisterE: no person is worth that much
MisterE: imagine if it was a black woman chetty :p
chetty: well she is in china, also causing much trouble
ozbot: Obama ladies touch down in China amid taxpayer uproar - Washington Times
MisterE: Hmm wonder if Barbarians at the gate is any good
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.00631877 = 0.3159 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05974999 = 0.1195 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13887 @ 0.00095236 = 13.2254 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7632 @ 0.00095632 = 7.2986 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.11950724 = 0.239 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9700 @ 0.00095594 = 9.2726 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10500 @ 0.00095632 = 10.0414 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 14 @ 0.0699999 = 0.98 BTC [+] {4}
chetty: Inostdal: you should be able to go right to the logs with the topic links
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105 @ 0.00095594 = 0.1004 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.6451 = 4.5157 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1590 @ 0.00300019 = 4.7703 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21200 @ 0.00094931 = 20.1254 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MG] 1000 @ 0.000154 = 0.154 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.NSA] 1000 @ 0.000156 = 0.156 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.05550002 = 0.222 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.065 = 0.26 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.11950724 = 0.478 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 97 @ 0.0031 = 0.3007 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20350 @ 0.00095148 = 19.3626 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.00631877 = 0.3159 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5450 @ 0.00095622 = 5.2114 BTC [+] {2}
davout: mircea_popescu: admin//twocansandastring42
gribble: tiberiusiv was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 46 weeks, 0 days, 11 hours, 30 minutes, and 5 seconds ago: <tiberiusiv> you cant read english paragraphs
jurov: cazalla he leveled through tiberiusv up to tiberiusxi
jurov: and then he prolly gave up
gribble: I have not seen tiberiusxi.
jurov: ;;seen tiberiusxii
gribble: I have not seen tiberiusxii.
gribble: I have not seen tiberiusv.
jurov: or i remember badly?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12922 @ 0.00095235 = 12.3063 BTC [-]
B007: seems that price follows interest
VanCleef: Is Russia ready to cut up its plastic? After Visa and MasterCard stopped processing some Russian transactions in response to U.S. sanctions, Moscow says it could launch a homegrown payment system that could be ready in as little as six months
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4500 @ 0.00095235 = 4.2856 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.0031 = 0.155 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 16 @ 0.07098998 = 1.1358 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 28 @ 0.07007857 = 1.9622 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 22 @ 0.07 = 1.54 BTC [-]
ozbot: BitBet - S.MG above 2x par on October 1st, 2014
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: S.MG 1 day: average: 0.000154 high: 0.000154 low: 0.000154 volume: 1050 btc: 0.1617 7 day: average: 0.00011355 high: 0.000154 low: 0.00010001 volume: 8050 btc: 0.9140788 30 day: average: 0.0001282 high: 0.000154 low: 0.00010001 volume: 13282 btc: 1.7026868
mircea_popescu: month's volume is 1.7btc tho. someone could easily manipulate it
jurov: hopefully it will ship before october
mircea_popescu: “Assuming that insight will work with people who are unmotivated to change is a colossal misunderstanding."
jurov: and volume goes up then
Neil: mircea_popescu: MisterE no actually, betting both sides is the way to play. << I think, judging from the public histories on bitbet, that this is very poor advice. It seems that waiting pays; I think bitbet probably needs harsher time decay than linear.
Neil: Which part? One at a time.
mircea_popescu: inasmuch as we're asking the same thing lol, youcan do both at a time
mircea_popescu: poor advice/waiting pays/harsher than linear. pick one.
Neil: I haven't seen a single example of anyone (same output address) betting on bitbet making money. There are numerous examples to the contrary.
Neil: Well that's 1 out of 2. So 50% sofar
Neil: 50% isn't normally considered irrelevant
mircea_popescu: much akin to saying "i've never seen anyone in a green tshirt depositing more money in the bank than they were taking out"
Neil: OK, evidence to the contrary?
mircea_popescu: evidence to the contrary of an unsupported thesis is not necessary.
mircea_popescu: but i'm just saying, "same address" is an irrelevant selection here.
Mats_cd03: the burden of evidence lies on the individual making the claim
chetty: would you use the same address to bet both sides?
Neil: Adn the 8BTC bet at the last minute of the "16% bet" just in the last 24 hrs supports my other claim of "betting at the last minute, under linear decay, pays".
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: that's the gamble. someone with pocket change could swing it either way
Neil: So I happily await a refutation.
mircea_popescu: obviously in a case where a 3 month bet was resolved in 4 days waiting pays o.O
Neil: mircea_popescu: Are you claiming some fudge for the first 4 days would fix it? You're smarter than that.
mircea_popescu: no lol. i'm claiming that on the basis of picking some outliers you can't make general statements.
mircea_popescu: "footwear should be made to support taller women because you should see this swede i'm dating"
jurov: Neil that exact case would require manual intervention "o difficulty prediction is > 16% ? drop the weight sharply"
Neil: I'll just say that, watching bitbet for a while, as I have, I feel waiting pays. It is my belief that it would benefit from faster decay.
mircea_popescu: ok but it helps if you bolster that authority claim with actual data
jurov: such meddling would be insane
mircea_popescu: "on this set of 100 consecutive bets, the results for X behaviour are .1 and for Y behaviour are .04"
ozbot: BitBet - 1BTC >= $10,000 USD
mircea_popescu: it helps even more if you publish your method along the dataset, then op can apply it to other sets see if behaviour converges
Neil: I am willing to bet an insane amount that 1K4Fs will lose on his two-way bet. And big-time.
Neil: It doesn't really matter how the chips land.
Neil: mircea_popescu: Don't be daft. One can't take the opposite of his bet.
nubbins`: The bet resolves as YES if 1K4Fs will lose on his two-way bet
Neil: He paid a 1 BTC gratiuity to bitbet to let later bettors enjoy some free beers.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.068 = 0.136 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: unless i'm doing this badly, should the bet come out as yes he's making ~300 btc
Neil: mircea_popescu: A big, and time-dependent, "if".
Neil: Let's wait and see. I'm quite happy to do so.
mircea_popescu: but it reduces to his either winning or losing the bet
mircea_popescu: which... i have no idea what that's supposed to prove ?
chetty: isn't IF what betting is all about?
Neil: I don't think it matters what happens. No way is he winning 100 BTC.
mircea_popescu: so he's bet 99 btc, is insured for 11 btc (currently) and stands to gain 291 currently.
mircea_popescu: this seems reasonably ok. and if more people gang on yes, his 291 diminishes but his insurance increases
Neil: Is it Atoi or something similar has done similar both-way bets on bitbet quite a lot? Each one lost, which is to be expected, given my claim that waiting pays.
mircea_popescu: but this is neither here nor there, much like the green shirt in bank thing
mircea_popescu: you can select any arbitrary pair of yes/no bets and pretend they're made by the same person
nubbins`: The bet resolves as YES if the man in the bank is wearing a green shirt
Neil: mircea_popescu: Given your stake in the process I don't expect you to agree with me. But I think the facts speak for themselves. If someone believes 2-way betting pays they're welcome to continue doing it.
mircea_popescu: the trouble is that i'm not disagreeing with you, i'm discussing those facts.
mircea_popescu: but this aside : why would you figure my stake would *prevent* me from agreeing with the facts ?
Neil: OK. One example to the contrary will suffice. Happy to post 1 example to support my position.
VanCleef: erm i thought rockminer was ipoing tomorrow noon china time and they just announce that the ipo is already over and all shares have sold
Neil: mircea_popescu: But of course. I'm not stupid. The 16% is a good example: the house wins the more people rationally take all that is available "for (near) free".
Neil: When everyone scraps over the leftovers the house takes the fee.
mircea_popescu: during some months it comes AHEAD, which means the dual-betting system actually works.
Neil: Yeah that just gets it started, and one is given to the bet originator, so it's not the house really.
Mats_cd03: i just read the copy on rockminer.com
Neil: 50% doesn't weaken the point? OK.
Mats_cd03: dude can handle running a bidness but cant hire a fluent english speaker
mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 spam is not misspelled because the spammers can't hire editors. spam is misspelled because that selects for idiots, and they are looking for idiots (false positives are very expensive for them)
Neil: mircea_popescu: I'm still waiting for your counterexample to my claim.
Mats_cd03: or pay attention in english class, apparently
mircea_popescu: i think you'll have to re-read this later because i can't produce examples if you randomly reject examples.
ozbot: First Bitcoin derivative announced by Tera Exchange | NDTV Gadgets
Neil: I don't have anything against bitbet. I like the site. Just saying it how I see it.
mircea_popescu: well no problem, but what you're saying doesn't actually make sense.
Mats_cd03: can you demonstrate why linear decay is inappropriate, and why exponential (or w.e) decay is appropriate?
mircea_popescu: VanCleef you know we lolled at that shit like five times already, getting stale.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that hypothesis was only seriously considered by the baesian cultists.
mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 Neil not that there's anything wrong with intuition, it's how great things start. it still has to be actually checked with data.
nubbins`: asciilifeform: i always questioned why spammers thought I'd consider an email hawking "v1agr4" as a legitimate source for prescription medication
nubbins`: there might be something to this
nubbins`: mouth-breathers of the world, meantime, think "hmm, i could use d1ck p1ll5..."
nubbins`: "i'd love to turn my peanut into a banana" etc
ozbot: Four men arrested in One World Trade Center jump stunt - CNN.com
mircea_popescu: and what's good for people who really believe "make mone yat home by cashing these checks" and "inhearitence!!!" is also good for... "investors"
Neil: mircea_popescu:
http://bitbet.us/bet/619/bitcoin-difficulty-at-or-above-2b-before-feb/ 16tA0 (apologies for remebering wrong above) bets 11 and 8 (19 total) gets less than 14 back. I claim that is typical, and can support with more examples. Can you give me even one example of a two-way bet like this, for similar amounts in size, that was a profit for the bettor?
Neil: (i.e. where yes and no bets were simliar in size)
mircea_popescu: a) bitbet house bets both sides on all bets, always ; b) in spite of giving away one of the addresses, bitbet house still actually makes bank some months, and overall is just about even ; c) ergo, double betting can be productive.
ozbot: Remembering Mathias Rust's Flight to Red Square | Public Radio International
mircea_popescu: obviously if bitbet house simply kept both addreses it'd actually be ahead by now. which makes it a fine example of how you can make money betting both sides early.
mircea_popescu: an example which is put there deliberately, by design, by me,
mircea_popescu: and an example which people still have difficulty following
Neil: A bettor other than bitbet. Bitbet gives one side to the originator of course, so I don't even understand your example. Of course, you may have smart decision makers who decide whether a given proposition is more likely to turn out + or -, but that's beside the point. Real-life non-bibet bettor in size (say > 0.5 BTC each side)? Just one example?
Neil: I'm trying hard to understand somehting that doesn't exist. Waiting for proof.
VanCleef: mmmmi'd liek to pee on those tits
VanCleef: do you like ethereum mircea or na?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.62015 = 1.2403 BTC [-] {2}
ozbot: ClubOrlov: Ukrainians on the verge of a nervous breakdown
jurov: yes i put that here yest, complete with map
jurov: yes, the politics around here tends to get divorced from reality
jurov: in slovakia the main topic was protection of traditional family recently, including changing the constitution
jurov: war imminent on our doorstep? dun have time for that
Neil: mircea_popescu: So regarding
http://bitbet.us/bet/635/1btc-10-000-usd/ and our friend 1K4Fs, I'd be happy to bet real BTC that 1K4Fs loses money regardless of outcome. It's extremely likely (>90%) and given an integral of payoff against probability, I think it's clear betting both ways is a losing proposition. Well, to me at least, which is all that matters.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 42 @ 0.11950724 = 5.0193 BTC [-]
Neil: mircea_popescu: But it's only you on the other side. What do you suggest?
mircea_popescu: i suggest you make a bitbet, as you describe it, and ima bet a little myself.
Neil: A bitbet on a bitbet?
mircea_popescu: i dun see the problem with it, seems a legitimate controversy.
jurov: not from you seems
Neil: But I'd want to bet 5 BTC against reasonable odds, and bitbet doesn't offer that. Only you can.
Neil: Well that depends on what they are. That 1K4Fs makes money right?
mircea_popescu: but then i'd have to hedge it somehow because clearly it's contingent on how the bet plays out.
Neil: Well you wouldn't be able to hedge it, but it's off-market price.
mircea_popescu: i'll take even odds on the proposition that 1k4fs makes money *irrespective* of result
Neil: How so? It's easy to ascertain from the final result whether dude made money or not.
mircea_popescu: so just because he went on long odds you're telling me bitbet is broken ? dude wanted the long odds, what can i say
Neil: mircea_popescu: My claim and offer stands. Let's leave it at that. :)
mircea_popescu: but your claim mostly consists of a large "bitcoin wont be over 10k" leg with a tiny "this other thing" leg
Neil: mircea_popescu: Happy to entertain any other bet, of over 0.5 BTC per side, where someone has bet both ways. I'm not holding my breath, given the performance so far...
Neil: (bet over 0.5 both ways that is)
nubbins`: so, say, betting 10btc on one side and 0.6btc on the other would fit the criteria?
Neil: nubbins`: I'd prefer more evenly weighted. The 0.5 was to eliminate trash.
nubbins`: Neil: well, what, equal amounts on both sides? within 10%?
nubbins` rolls a garbage can around -assets collecting amounts < 0.5
nubbins`: free this time, next pick-up you gotta pay
Neil: Where the minimum is 0.5 and where larger size is no more than double smaller size, with > 1 month to go sounds OK, but would like a concrete example before finally comitting
Neil: I think my point stands though - anyone who has bet 2-ways for "decent" size has lost. I have several examples and haven't seen a single counterexample.
Neil: The dude betting 100 BTC both ways on some coin toss was a great specimen of how not to make money on bitbet.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 43 @ 0.05338906 = 2.2957 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: that we readily agree. coin toss and weight doesn't mix
Neil: mircea_popescu: Though I think he actually got some contra bets late in the game, which meant he came out near break-even, by luck of said coin toss!
mircea_popescu: i suppose in a way it was a gamble, guy risked 2 btc on the theory "bitbet bettors are idiots"
Neil: Not so smart. I wouldn't bet that.
mircea_popescu: all the other smarter-than-life players ended up in the same bin.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4700 @ 0.00095177 = 4.4733 BTC [-]
Neil: But I'd also support anyone's right to bet that...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 19 @ 0.11950724 = 2.2706 BTC [-]
Neil: "You" talk about the dynamic of bitbet settling to reasonable odds, but a counterpoint is the example fo the recent 200 BTC bet on the 10k USD bet.
Neil: The outcome odds before and after are massively different. But both stuck.
Neil: (i.e. no new bets have come in to counterbalance). I don't believe the "market" odds moved that much overnight. Friction is high.
Neil: The Berkshire bet is another example, I think. The odds are higher that 3% (perhaps 15%) but friction prevents realization.
Neil: Friction of trusting a dude with the initials MP, friction of knowing the bet exists and the odds, friction of knowing the odds can change underneath you, friction of tying your money up for 1 year, ... I could go on.
Neil: Friction of getting into "frictionless" bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: this is like telling me friction prevents wallstreet from pricing gold, because fucktards in namibia have no ws access
Neil: Then please explain how 200 BTC come in, and nothing else happens.
mircea_popescu: but i can't dispute the facts on the basis of my own opinion either.
Neil: Clearly the market is thin. No, I have no idea either, but clearly there are limits in our fun little world. Which is good :)
mircea_popescu: so were the implied odds wrong before or are the implied odds wrong now ?
mircea_popescu: if anything, the fascinating thing with that 200 is that it didn't land on the no side of berkshire
Neil: But bid-offer is too high.
mircea_popescu: so then... what, the guy with 200 didn't know about berkshire ?
Neil: mircea_popescu: So, somehting I've wondered. Do the "bitbet" terms at MPEX prevent bitbet branching out into other revenue streams?
mircea_popescu: or couldn't trust mp or couldn't lock his btc up for months ?
Neil: Suppose bitbet decided to do fixed odds betting (taking on risk on the house). Is that "within the spec"?
Neil: So you're saying no?
mircea_popescu: the correct way for this to work would be for someone (respected and competent as a bookie) to start a fund
Neil: Sure. I respect you believe that.
mircea_popescu: basically the business of the bookie equals the actual bookie.
Neil: But as a random Joe sixpack reading the specs, and not knowing who you are etc., it's not really clear how bitbet can evolve, indeed even if it can.
Neil: Which isn't to imply it doesn't have a great future.
mircea_popescu: people keep changing things randomly because of this unwarranted and unwelcome expectation that "new and therefore better"
Neil: So as a prospective investor, given the terms, I'm thinking "Where can this go, how can it expand?" And it seems limited. Which may not be a bad thing.
mircea_popescu: expansion in that sense is not useful for an investor.
Neil: Walking down a one-way street isn't useful either.
Neil: Just saying "where's the flexibility"?
mircea_popescu: but consider this : suppose tomorrow some great[ly idiotic] new manager takes over from me, and decides to expand bitbet by buying wynn hotels.
mircea_popescu: the forums will be extremely excited at this development.
mircea_popescu: this obviously will force a modification o the contract, making bitbet a nz0 now.
mircea_popescu: and it finally means that about 70% of that value is actual assets.
Neil: Trying to understand what's "in-scope" and what isn't. I personally don't think it's clear. I respect your desire to run a clean, auditable (via blockchain) operation. But the future isn't clear at all, to me anyway.
mircea_popescu: then two years later wynn hotels hit a slow patch, get sold for scrap
mircea_popescu: investor has gone from this position where he realises gains each month
mircea_popescu: to this position where he jsut lost a good 90% of his value
Neil: Sure, no argument at all.
mircea_popescu: so what's in scope is running the court system of bitcoin
Neil: I'm not disputing the setup, I actually like it.
davout: mircea_popescu: how would bb buy anything in the first place ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37900 @ 0.00095177 = 36.0721 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 5000 @ 0.00012798 = 0.6399 BTC [-] {7}
Neil: I want to understand better what can happen.
davout: mircea_popescu: doesn't your argument boil down to : "assets are risky because they can depreciate" ?
mircea_popescu: the argument boils down to "fully distributed, non-asset hodling btc corps are a better risk class"
mircea_popescu: not saying asset-holding is bad for all time or anything, but it is riskier.
davout: tbh that sounds more like your opinion than an argument
mircea_popescu: which part, the different risk class part or the sorting of the classes part ?
davout: your evaluation of the relative risk
ozbot: 18-month sentence for inmate involved in HMP riot - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News
nubbins`: "In the end, the rioters traded the sole hostage in exchange for two cigarettes before surrendering to police."
davout: imho ZA corps are quite vulnerable to issues related to management since basically the management *is* the company
davout: there's also the bus factor
mircea_popescu: asset-based corps dampen management incompetence, allowing outright thieves to run for a longer time than the yshou;d
davout: but i do agree that the improvement of natural selection is a good thing
mircea_popescu: davout from what i recall, some random idiot opining was claiming that getting the average bitcoin exchange at the safety rate of the average human would be a great gain in security.
novusordo: i'm having trouble with coming up with any good examples of non-asset holding corps preceding bitcoin
mircea_popescu: supported by evidence this strange view oif his, seeing how bitcoin exchanges have the life expectancy of trisomic neonates
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah something based on how likely it is for the avg 20yo to bite it
mircea_popescu: because you know, little train engines that can, these people.
davout: mircea_popescu: who was arguing that ?
ozbot: Cash theft from RNC locker remains unsolved - Newfoundland & Labrador - CBC News
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07299999 = 0.365 BTC [+] {3}
Mats_cd03: after you lay it, get close and take a deep breath
mircea_popescu: davout well i can't find it now. some kid from the "community" of self-proclaimed experts wrote some sort of article/"white paper" on how bitcoin exchanges should do x y z to get their risk of blowing up in line with the risk of the average 20yo getting hit by a bus
davout: mircea_popescu: thank you kind sir
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3500 @ 0.00095177 = 3.3312 BTC [-]
nubbins`: Mats_cd03: would actually be a neat business to get into, supplying blotter paper
nubbins`: a tough nut to crack tho, for sure
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21218 @ 0.00095315 = 20.2239 BTC [+] {4}
davout: didn't know gox hosted some pastie-clone as well
mircea_popescu: nubbins` isn't it traditionally reserved for the girlfriend of the chemist making the dope ?
Mats_cd03: as i understand it, the best market are the sr clones
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: as it happens, the best i've tried has been white-on-white (no design at all)
nubbins`: Mats_cd03: i haven't been keeping track of the clones at all
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: for that matter, i don't think the chemist generally lays the blotter at all
Mats_cd03: me neither, although it makes sense - its not actually illegal in a lot of jurisdictions (the paper, anyway)
nubbins`: simply produces vials of liquid
nubbins`: Mats_cd03: plenty of blotter art on ebay, even
nubbins`: lots of alex grey and r. crumb
nubbins`: crumb's artwork is cool, burns me out
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.07299999 = 0.292 BTC [+]
ozbot: Robert Crumb’s History of Women « TheArtofAttraxion X Because your body is a canvas.
ozbot: ROCKMINER - miners using GEN3 ASICMINER chips
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 19 @ 0.05278955 = 1.003 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.068 = 0.204 BTC [+]
nubbins`: "R. Crumb's ideal woman: the 'true amazon'"
mircea_popescu: lmao at all this "genetically superior both physically and mentally"
mircea_popescu: then you're regaled something from the roadside freakshwo cca 1905
nubbins`: he's published books full of shit like this
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.62006666 = 3.7204 BTC [-] {2}
jurov saves the crumbs woman to later delight of his lesbian friends
jurov: they know how to appreciate true womanhood
nubbins`: crumb took a lotta flak over the years
mircea_popescu: i like big women too, but these seem big in all the wrong ways in all the wrong places.
kakobrekla: www.uvm.edu/~iwd/images08/venuswillindorflarge.jpg
nubbins`: you'll find a lot of crumb fans do as well
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46600 @ 0.00095528 = 44.516 BTC [+] {5}
nubbins`: it means you'd make a good sniper
nubbins`: gazing upward with hope and joy in their eyes
rithm: i'm just glad my computer works today
rithm: bitcoin be killin those encrypted ~ partitions
novusordo: so apparently the trezor has a better recovery system than I thought
novusordo: if you take a factory-fresh trezor and you have a bip32 wallet you'd like to put on it
novusordo: it prompts you to enter the words from the bip32 phrase out of order
novusordo: and also prompts to enter random words between the actual ones
novusordo: the screen will say something like "enter word 1"
novusordo: hence why such a recovery system is needed
novusordo: not sure, haven't gotten mine to play with yet
MisterE: wow that sparked quite the debate about bitbet
MisterE: Bitbet about outcome of 1K4Fs bitbet!
MisterE: Or make it for 2/3 bets where a bettor is betting both sides.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 48 @ 0.00303 = 0.1454 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: Betting boths sides is a way to adjust exposure? How is that controversial?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07125005 = 0.1425 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 38 @ 0.00298 = 0.1132 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10200 @ 0.00095373 = 9.728 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7950 @ 0.00095355 = 7.5807 BTC [-]
ozbot: My wife was raped my four men. I can't live or be with her with that on my mind. I have to leave her
ozbot: What A Bank Run In China Looks Like: Hundreds Rush To Banks Following Solvency Rumors | Zero Hedge
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00305 = 0.1525 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 200 @ 0.00088874 = 0.1777 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.05436663 = 0.1631 BTC [-] {3}
ozbot: Scenes From A Multiverse » The Crystalline Entity
ozbot: Chemtrail conspiracy theory - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 2.19917759 BTC to 4`379 shares, 50221 satoshi per share
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.05223833 = 0.4701 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] [PAID] 50.50848075 BTC to 4`379 shares, 1153425 satoshi per share
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 11 @ 0.05182727 = 0.5701 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 9 @ 0.05717695 = 0.5146 BTC [-] {7}
blackwhite_: whats a good primer on currency/money? Any book recomendations
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 9 @ 0.0675 = 0.6075 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.62988799 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.0529 = 0.1587 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 3 @ 0.07100021 = 0.213 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 22 @ 0.07054545 = 1.552 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 25 @ 0.0056283 = 0.1407 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 9 @ 0.0645 = 0.5805 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07 = 0.35 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 20 @ 0.0056283 = 0.1126 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 30 @ 0.10144642 = 3.0434 BTC [-]
benkay: kakobrekla, mircea_popescu: where's the bitbet api again?
mike_c: benkay: there's a json feed by tacking ?json on the end of the bet url
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 12 @ 0.05068334 = 0.6082 BTC [-] {6}
the20year3: Put an offer on a house about 3-4 weeks ago, telling them we could close in a week
mike_c: BingoBoingo: but no point shaving possible here, just 5:1 odds on the eastern conference. that's a good bet.
the20year3: Got a email back the 13th from the bank saying "We are ready to close" , the contract's closing date was the 24th as requested by the bank. 24th has come and gone and still no closing
BingoBoingo: mike_c: I Mr. Stern still the commissioner?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07 = 0.14 BTC [-]
mike_c: only for like 2 more months
mike_c: oh nvm, stern left Feb. 1
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.0501 = 0.1503 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.06 = 0.18 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.10144642 = 0.3043 BTC [-]
mike_c: mircea_popescu: didn't get it..
BingoBoingo: I'm still iffy on the whole NBA thing. Might as well open a bet on who wins the whole Wrestlemania thing.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0496 = 0.1984 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.06 = 0.24 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 9 @ 0.10144642 = 0.913 BTC [-] {2}
mike_c: hah. nothing wrong with that either :) unless vince mcmahon has some bitcoin
benkay: kakobrekla: is there a convenient way to get a list of all resolved bets besides scrolling down the search page?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 15 @ 0.05649999 = 0.8475 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 7 @ 0.05 = 0.35 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 7 @ 0.10144642 = 0.7101 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: Still doesn't fit with risk profiles I find betable. You never know who has Bitcoin.
benkay: resolved rss only returns a few recently resolved bet
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 10 @ 0.10144642 = 1.0145 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.05253333 = 0.3152 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07 = 0.35 BTC [-]
benkay: and i'm not seeing any pagination handles in the 'resolved' rss
ozbot: Postal workers intercept drugs mailed to metro-east | Top Stories | News Democrat
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 8 @ 0.07 = 0.56 BTC [-] {2}
kakobrekla: i guess we need some ?json on /browse/
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 4383 @ 0.00012319 = 0.5399 BTC [-] {13}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1137 @ 0.00012324 = 0.1401 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.07 = 0.35 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07 = 0.14 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: perhaps the easiest way is to just loop through the ids going from 1 to whatever
benkay: now that's usin the noggin
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 45 @ 0.10144642 = 4.5651 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22029 @ 0.00095125 = 20.9551 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.07 = 0.42 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.10144642 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3161 @ 0.00095048 = 3.0045 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.0486 = 0.243 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.0499 = 0.2495 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.0503996 = 0.1512 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15050 @ 0.00094983 = 14.2949 BTC [-] {2}
pankkake: I am transferring my data from old to new drives, and I started a checksum verification of the tranferred files, for fun. turns out, a lot weren't transferred correctly
mircea_popescu: aaand trilema, teh rift guild just went over 1k members
pankkake: I suppose I should blame the hardware… though both are raid6
pankkake: no, it's the same machine, with 12 drives wired. the setup is clearly ghetto (especially the pci-e extenders to reach the drives outside…)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 28 @ 0.07021334 = 1.966 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 21 @ 0.07000004 = 1.47 BTC [-] {3}
pankkake: many atms or other kiosk stuff stuck on the "daylight savings" message
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.07 = 1.4 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14900 @ 0.00094952 = 14.1478 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.05399997 = 0.108 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.10144642 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12128 @ 0.00094896 = 11.509 BTC [-] {3}
jurov: in transaction detail
nubbins`: mircea_popescu is there a way to exchange btc for whatever the fuck rift uses for currency?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9141 @ 0.0009457 = 8.6446 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.05399999 = 0.108 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: also in the news, i took about a week off because of all the press nuttery, during which i stopped buying raw materials
mircea_popescu: now i look at the market, prices fell an average of 40% across all product classes.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 127 @ 0.00629561 = 0.7995 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 8 @ 0.0543748 = 0.435 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0486 = 0.1944 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.05499999 = 0.22 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16889 @ 0.00094986 = 16.0422 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.055 = 0.385 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.04810005 = 0.1924 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.62988979 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.052 = 0.104 BTC [-]
ozbot: Betting BitBet Both Ways - Btc Alpha
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 6 @ 0.052 = 0.312 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: mike_c the correct selection for house bets is to take the first three bets of any wager, and exclude one of them
ozbot: Man who tried to choke daughter gets one year probation - Local - The Telegram
mircea_popescu: mike_c the one you exclude a) always has the same output as one of the remainder two and is either made at weight 100k
mike_c: lots of counter-examples to that
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11463 @ 0.00095392 = 10.9348 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.10144642 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: but the two you keep always have the exact same weight
ozbot: BitBet - US Credit Rating
ozbot: Local artist using Ellen DeGeneres portrait as a face for pro seal hunt - Entertainment - The Telegr
nubbins`: guy does a portrait of Ellen in a seal pelt
mircea_popescu: 1. take first 3 bets. 2. exclude one. 2.1 either the 1st, if it has the same exit addy as one of the other 2, and the two have same weight, or else the 3rd.
mircea_popescu: ha! the house clears 10% ? i had it pegged at about 8%
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5750 @ 0.00095177 = 5.4727 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: mike_c the point about "it dun really matter so much to correctly identify the house" stands too, for the angle discussed in chat.
ozbot: BitBet - BTC/USD at MtGox will stay ABOVE 14.88$ and BELOW 21.46$
mike_c: not one of the first 3
mike_c: thanks MisterE mircea_popescu
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25700 @ 0.0009566 = 24.5846 BTC [+] {3}
mike_c: thx. it is cool to look at some of the big winners for the house. the mtgox closure caused a huge one. 0.07 btc -> 1.36 btc
mircea_popescu: anyway, 5.x btc profit on a 70ish btc budget as a handicapper is really not that bad.
mike_c: not bad at all. plus you could surely do better by varying your budget on the bets.
mike_c: yeah, right after i said that i second thought it. lot of the big profits comes from unexpected results.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.05 = 0.15 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: generally speaking mechanical, constraint betting results in better ev than "feelers".
mircea_popescu: something like "x on winner, half x on loser for all bets" or w/e other strategy
mircea_popescu: ie, here's a very simple way to have fun as a bright young programmer :
mircea_popescu: write a google search application that finds answers to bets based on queries derived from bet text,
wao-ender: we are having this weekend bithack at our hackerspace, wondering if people would like make some betbot
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform could even have tournaments. who makes the most out of 100 btc or w/e
mircea_popescu: wao-ender this is going to take a year rather than a weekend.
wao-ender: lot of math and analyzing of external inputs
wao-ender: but yeah, I can imagine, it could work.
wao-ender: like betting what weather would be tomorrow.
ozbot: IRS declares that bitcoin will be taxed as property — Tech News and Analysis
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07199779 = 0.144 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28450 @ 0.00095821 = 27.2611 BTC [+] {4}
ThickAsThieves: If a taxpayer receives a payment in virtual currency, is it considered income?
ThickAsThieves: Yes, the fair-market value of the currency (in U.S. dollars) on the date the payment was received is considered to be income. For more information on exchange rates, see the notice.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 887 @ 0.0029547 = 2.6208 BTC [-] {13}
novusordo: took them that long to come up with this?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 1000 @ 0.00284176 = 2.8418 BTC [-] {21}
ThickAsThieves: it doesnt really say how to determine an exchange rate other than to be consistent
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07199779 = 0.144 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 45 @ 0.072 = 3.24 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the difference between cement and btc is that i can hit you over the head with the cement.
thestringpuller: If you receive BTC as a gift doesn't a different tax apply?
mircea_popescu: seems to me the only sane treatment of btc is as any other intangible, taxable only upon realisation.
mircea_popescu: i dunno who'd live in a jurisdiction that takes any other tack to the problem, or why.
mircea_popescu: novusordo that's not realisation. when you sell it, you report the income.
ThickAsThieves: so if i trade you intellectual proprty for bitcoins, a black hole forms?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 86 @ 0.07000009 = 6.02 BTC [-] {4}
ThickAsThieves: how does one discern a reasonable trade value from an unreasonable one?
El3k0n: ThickAsThieves The world financial system implodes
pankkake: that's a horrible random generator
ozbot: Twitter / APStylebook: AP Style tip: Bitcoin is a ...
nubbins`: can't trust AP style tips anymore
nubbins`: they now allow "over" as a synonym of "more than"
mike_c: that one seems right though
pankkake: nubbins`: why isn't "over" the same as "more than"?
pankkake: I didn't know the AP style guide existed, I've been meaning to read the Economist one
nubbins`: pankkake, it's just not proper english :D
nubbins`: colloquially, it's used the same way
nubbins`: well, y'know why is anything the way it is?
ozbot: Microsoft releases source code for MS-DOS and Word | Ars Technica
benkay: plantive whine: "look, we do open source!"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15016 @ 0.00095355 = 14.3185 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.048175 = 0.1927 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.0545 = 0.218 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.10144642 = 0.4058 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.0476005 = 0.238 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.0471 = 0.1413 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 25 @ 0.07 = 1.75 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.10144642 = 0.5072 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: well more that i respect you have better ability to discern proper rng, crypto, etc than i
Duffer1: ciphertrade goes live on friday
Duffer1: they have yet to figure out who gets what percentage...
ozbot: How to have fun as an intelligent person pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
Duffer1: that's right, apparently without a contract, multiple people pooled resources to create CipherTrade and didn't figure out who will own what
Duffer1: this will end well i'm sure
mircea_popescu: course, i think they were talking of something else. inasmuch as there can be "something else" in the swamp.
Duffer1: it must be something else cause to me this is hilarious
wao-ender: I suggest it as milion dollar idea w/o one dollar, that one dollar you already have in your pocket
mircea_popescu: but because bitcoin allows such fine payments, you're right, you can do this on a cup of coffee
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.0551 = 0.2755 BTC [+] {2}
mike_c: that is the case for all parimutuel wagering
mike_c: good handicappers at the racetrack know a shitload more than me about horses.
mircea_popescu: no see, because you confuse information and action here.
mircea_popescu: in general action (pull plug) is caught in a web of actions
blackwhite: so regarding the bitcoin as property. What does that mean if I get bitcoin for the work I am doing?
mircea_popescu: it's unlikely you'll be able to breach the former in order to benefit the latter
mircea_popescu: (trivially, your curiosity as to what's inside a watch isn't worth the pirce of a watch)
ThickAsThieves: the word "generally" appears 8 times in the IRS release
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, they did not. see, it wasn't a free market, but at the other end of things
mircea_popescu: (ie, in a free market neither the gru nor the nazis could have existed)
mircea_popescu: so in general arguing "in this inefficient case the inefficiency could be used like so"
mircea_popescu: misses the point that you'd have to construct that inefficiency first, which precludes the use economically.
mircea_popescu: sure, but that's an entire different story than what we're doing here.
mircea_popescu: sort-of like saying "i have no need to use computers because i already know what 2+2 comes to"
mircea_popescu: moreover, the whole thing is begging the question. "how do you make money if you know how to make money already ?" "in the manner you know".
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13200 @ 0.00095617 = 12.6214 BTC [+] {2}
ozbot: Bitcoin Is Property Not Currency in Tax System, IRS Says - Bloomberg
blackwhite: the IRS in Denmark ruled it's not taxable
ThickAsThieves: The Court decided that Filburn's wheat growing activities reduced the amount of wheat he would buy for chicken feed on the open market, and because wheat was traded nationally, Filburn's production of more wheat than he was allotted was affecting interstate commerce. Thus, Filburn's production could be regulated by the federal government.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 16 @ 0.10144642 = 1.6231 BTC [-] {2}
ozbot: CyberGuerrilla soApboX » Ukrainian leakage once again.
Mats_cd03: "While the Assisting Trooper attempted unsuccessfully to draw his handgun" the 2 second rule nearly prevails once again
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ThickAsThieves amusingly, there was recently a very similar case re milk.
Mats_cd03: Back to Bataan i haven't seen in some time
mircea_popescu: some california producer that made butter out of its own milk was forced to stop selling it because it had an unfair advantage.
jurov: she apparently tweeted it (but these slovak scumbags did not link it)
mircea_popescu: the consensus in the harem seems to be that these chechen boyz (as typified by todashev) sure are pretty
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 13 @ 0.05526164 = 0.7184 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 15 @ 0.04999999 = 0.75 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.10144642 = 0.4058 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: now how the fuck can women tell who the violent males are ? he looks totally harmless to me.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.05360007 = 0.1072 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.10144642 = 0.2029 BTC [-] {2}
ozbot: #FreeJahar: When Conspiracy Theorists and One Direction Fans Collide
BingoBoingo: The younger one has had a Beiber like fanbase for some time since his arrest.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.10144642 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 48 @ 0.00298999 = 0.1435 BTC [-] {2}
ThickAsThieves: i wonder what my tax penalties will be for all that unreported WoW gold
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 8 @ 0.0503988 = 0.4032 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: bitcoinpete, did you program your HootSuite to post that to IRC? ;)
diametric: ThickAsThieves: none, since Blizzard explicitly states ownership of the gold belongs to them.
bitcoinpete: It has too many footnotes, too many airquotes, and is a bit long (and therefore error-prone).
diametric: Technically USD you made illegitimately would be taxed as income, just as any other illegitimate sale
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.05598999 = 0.3919 BTC [+]
diametric: mircea_popescu: oh none of course since nothing gets realized
gribble: Error: 'wow' is not a valid positive floating point number.
mircea_popescu: diametric well, bitcoin is not sold for usd any more legitimately.
mircea_popescu: they're both sold on the grounds of possesion, without title.
mircea_popescu: and actually... wow gold to usd exchanges are older and a lot more stable than btc to usd exchanges.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.05598999 = 0.112 BTC [+]
diametric: mircea_popescu: in the same way if I stole your TV and sold it, you're not responsible for capital gains on it.
diametric: mircea_popescu: people selling wow gold is technically stealing it.
bitcoinpete: ThickAsThieves: I've been keeping up with the logs at least :)
diametric: they need to pay taxes, but blizzard doesn't.
mircea_popescu: diametric people selling btc are equally "technically" stealing it.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 85 @ 0.00298999 = 0.2541 BTC [-]
diametric: ThickAsThieves: all of this in Blizzard's eyes constitutes theft of intellectual property
mircea_popescu: people trading wow gold exchange possession without title.
mircea_popescu: people trading btc idem exchange possession without title.
diametric: I'm not disagreeing with you, I'm telling you having actually talked to Blizzard's legal team what they believe
diametric: it of course has never been challenged
mircea_popescu: in neither case a representation is made as to transfer of title, which makes blizzard's ip assertions irrelevant.
mircea_popescu: it's just that they can believe in one hand and piss in the other, see which gets warm first.
bounce: er. if nobody "owning" WoW gold can hold title then even "stolen" (or traded, or whatever) gold is held without title, and so it canot possibly be theft, now can it?
diametric: which I said those selling the wow gold are liable for taxes
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform again : i can hit you over the head with the cement.
mircea_popescu: either it's not taxable throughout, except for realisation
diametric: ThickAsThieves: I don't see why not.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves you could claim that for a long time, actually.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is true. but, again, with pb i can hit you over the head.
diametric: I've done a lot of things with WoW over the years before I quit about 3 years ago
ThickAsThieves: and the hospital had commited theft if they did not produce the lead back to the owner
jurov: don't give anybody a reason to use silver bullets then
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.10144642 BTC [-]
mike_c: if my employer pays me in stock, i owe taxes. can't hit me in the head with that
bounce: well, as long as they steal the tax obligation with it, I suppose I can live with it
diametric: More interesting is EVE, where earned ISK in game can be realized into a membership
ThickAsThieves: Dota 2 gets intricate too, the more i play the more items i get, they provide a market for selling items for USD credit
mircea_popescu: stock is a portion of the business, so i get a brick out of the building that is represented by the stock
mike_c: it's a zero-asset company :)
bounce: at least the tax office rarely is interested in anything but taxability
ThickAsThieves: the IRS makes no effort to define a virtual currency either
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's fine and dandy, but the best way for their pretense to remain standing is for tem to vehehery carefully steer out of the way of their masters.
mike_c: i do see your point, but i agree with ascii. it makes no practical difference since the bureaucrats will not recognize said difference.
bounce: IMO bit of a failing of government to stick to asking whether they can get away with taxing, and not asking whether they should
mike_c: asciilifeform: indeed. how exactly would they make an effort to collect anyway? impossible.
ThickAsThieves: it's also an absurd degree of taxation: say i buy a Walmart Gift Card with btc, i should pay sales tax, gains tax, then the seller reports profit and is taxed, revenue used to pay employees is taxed. then you tack on the accounting burden on both sides, plus the seller's burden as tax collector
mircea_popescu: specifically : people who are already defeated take into consideration nonsense such as "oh but the feds have a 9x% conviction rate" as a ready-made excuse to settle.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, five people don't settle and the entire system collapses in flames.
mircea_popescu: it's difficult to overstate just how fragile the entire morloch actually is.
ThickAsThieves: then when you use the gift card all that happens again
mircea_popescu: for all the appearance and pretense of stolid solidity.
mircea_popescu: just a bunch of sterile 37 yo women running around in circles, wailing.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1834 @ 0.00095355 = 1.7488 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: but anyway : the hissing of the serpent is easily ignored, until the point you cross its boundary.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 32 @ 0.10144642 = 3.2463 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 39 @ 0.00298998 = 0.1166 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in the spirit of that example, 1mn people killed on highways each year, no stalin.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.10144642 = 0.3043 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: "Google's new cloud storage prices are as low as $0.026 per gigabyte as a flat rate, far below Amazon's lowest offering of $0.037 per gigabyte, which kicks in if you're holding terabytes of data in the AWS cloud."
mircea_popescu: at any rate. the waco debacle has been perhaps the costliest enforcing action by the various bureaus
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 20 @ 0.07000012 = 1.4 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.05598997 = 0.168 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with te
mircea_popescu: rror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?
ThickAsThieves: lol [KS] (KS]@thinks.the.feds.are.investigat.in) has joined #bitcoin-assets
ozbot: Vina batranilor pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
jurov: and they really thought such foreign policy is sustainable?
jurov: or sustainability is not in russian vocabulary?
mircea_popescu: who thinks the crap is "sustainable" and what's sustainable even mean in that context
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15200 @ 0.0009535 = 14.4932 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.05 = 0.45 BTC [-] {2}
bounce: can just declare the 10 day reich at home then. take two weeks off, nobody notices. success.
mike_c: US became boss, what, when USSR dissolved? 20 years so far.
bounce: or ten minutes a day, every day. just need staying power.
ozbot: Closing the 'Collapse Gap': the USSR was better prepared for collapse than the US
bounce: the US found new enemies to fight, as it is wont to do
bounce: how long did the ottoman empire take to collapse?
mircea_popescu: actually it was sensible. turkey should have been taken into the eu in 2006
mircea_popescu: same thing had the us the ballsack to make iraq the 51st state
☟︎ bounce: with erdogan in office? bit against what the eu purports to stand for.
mircea_popescu: the only way to use money in 2006 would have been to lift up turkey.
ThickAsThieves: makes sense to me, you go into a country and have your military running the place for a decade, why not just stake claim?
jurov: how would it avoid the crisis?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 10 @ 0.056 = 0.56 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: and omfg those iraquis don't even get pottery barn catalogs daily ?!
B007: asciilifeform: thanks for that link
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.05039878 = 0.2016 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: i wonder how long till #bitcoin-assets gets the webby awards for the coolest place on the web
jurov: so mircea think "cohesion" transfers to turkey would not caouse even bigger crisis?
bounce: anyway, apropos churchill re americans, the eurocrats have a good track record of starting the same but finishing in the same way hasn't been in strong evidence
B007: it's hard to image some of those things happening in the us when it collapses because of its private sector though
mike_c: hey, i was nominated for two webbys just 3 years ago :)
bounce: greece is a shambles, but so far hasn't been too good for the eu economy as a whole. how would turkey have been different?
mircea_popescu: in other news, some guy sold 3500 records debuted in the billboard
B007: all the private companies, landlords
jurov: B007: detroit has had very strong private sector once
jurov: yeah, google tends to support common good such as... public transport ? :DDD
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.05039878 = 0.1512 BTC [+]
jurov: whole internet pokes fun of google buses by now
jurov: wherever the money comes from, their mindset will be utterly useless in collapse
ozbot: List of largest manufacturing companies by revenue - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
mircea_popescu: that's why start-ups can be easily destroyed by getting the wrong money sources early.
B007: why would the govt sponser google?
mircea_popescu: general electric, ford and hp are all kept on respirators by public usg spending.
mircea_popescu: tbh procter and gamble may be the first item on that list able to duke it on its own
B007: any facts about money google receives from govt?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07379499 = 0.1476 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.10144642 = 0.3043 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 36 @ 0.0029 = 0.1044 BTC [-]
bitcoinpete: mircea_popescu: quite enjoyed your fun article. the sizes of the gaps between those layers is nothing to sneeze at :)
TestingUnoDosTre: <B007>: interesting list, never heard of Hon Hai Precision Industries before
mircea_popescu: should have a bet as to wehen the first bitcoin corp makes the top
bounce: holding corp of... foxconn, wasn't it?
ozbot: Kraken, a Bitcoin exchange, raises $5M | VentureBeat | Deals | by J. O'Dell
B007: so if google in the next yahoo, who is the next google?
mircea_popescu: "If circumstances had been different, the people running Yahoo might have realized sooner how important search was. But they had the most opaque obstacle in the world between them and the truth: money."
mike_c: lampelina runs b-a.com now. hopefully she will remove the password requirement soon ;)
jurov: no they guessed right that advertising is important. search is "only" the precursor for the addiction
bounce: TestingUnoDosTre: I didn't say that
ozbot: IRS: Bitcoin is property, like a stock or bond, and not a currency | Ars Technica
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 17 @ 0.61076841 = 10.3831 BTC [-] {8}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 2 @ 0.07379689 = 0.1476 BTC [+]
ozbot: $397 billion fighter jet deployment may be delayed by software glitches | Ars Technica
mike_c: it's good to be lockheed.. best lobbyists in the industry.
lampelina: mike_c, will do my best for site to be up asap
benkay: thestringpuller: 'mpoe' is now an artifact of history
mircea_popescu: soo... inb4 500 bitcointalk threads where all sorts of experts explain how mp was indeed right and they were indeed clueless ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1465 @ 0.00013502 = 0.1978 BTC [+] {4}
mike_c: lampelina: no rush, just teasing. good luck running it.
ozbot: Maja L. (lampelina) on Twitter
mircea_popescu: "It's hard for anyone much younger than me to understand the fear Microsoft still inspired in 1995."
mircea_popescu: i think it'll be hard for anyone born after 1990 or so to even understand fear.
ozbot: Re: A draft business plan for free software LISP vendors - Naggum cll archive
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.05039673 = 0.1512 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: B007 fear is when you understand what kills you before it actually does.
mircea_popescu: just another way of not being dumb as rocks, as it were.
mike_c: say what you will about "microshit", but bill gates was/is a hell of a businessman.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a brave man and a fearless man don't map well.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6750 @ 0.00095273 = 6.4309 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05039873 = 0.1008 BTC [+] {2}
mike_c: he justifiably instilled more fear than steve jobs ever did.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 7 @ 0.0560714 = 0.3925 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.10144642 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: Does S.NSA have a LISP fighter jet in its long term plans?
mike_c: nobody does have the power to tell the powerful what to do. mp has stated that some 5 million times.
mircea_popescu: mike_c but how dares microsoft tell x y z ppl what to do!
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.04710002 = 0.1884 BTC [-]
mike_c: asciilifeform: hence his business acumen.
mircea_popescu: when microsoft was born, ibm was much larger. how did it eat ibm's lunch ?
mike_c: microsoft didn't shove a cattle prod up anyone's ass.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i do. what part of that is not free market ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.0564999 = 0.226 BTC [+]
mike_c: ^ i think you are underestimating what it took to build the monolopy.
mircea_popescu: so now, the "competition on technical merit" leg of your statement, i see
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.0564999 = 0.113 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.10144642 = 0.2029 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: i'll readily grant that it didn't operate in any kind of free market in the 90s. but your statement was as of product
mircea_popescu: shitty macs could have been synonymous with home computer
mircea_popescu: fucktards running tablets today don't even realise they should be able to interact with their hard drives
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there is sucvh a thing as idiocy through absence.
mircea_popescu: come to think about it, i don't know there's something in the world i ever hated more than a mac, and in this sense a ms-dos pc seems a muchly preferable alternative.
mike_c: the 'dark age' of apple would have been the 'no apple' age if microsoft hadn't given them money to keep them alive.
mircea_popescu: so perhaps it was quite free market : we just got the better alternative, which sucked.
mircea_popescu: the general idiocy of "the community" ie, the paying public, being the field on which technical solutions have to live.
mircea_popescu: mike_c which kind-of explains WHY microsoft kept apple alive.
mike_c: keeping apple alive prevented more DOJ attention at the time.
mircea_popescu: in soviet russia this also has a name. vrag naroda etc.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.10144642 = 0.5072 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 9 @ 0.073798 = 0.6642 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: mike_c my meta-point is that, even if not epxlicit, what it really did was it kept people like me pacified
mircea_popescu: you know, simply shot gates, instead of merely throwing pies.
bounce: er. should kids on tablets be able to interact with the hard drive? it's a bit like asking if drivers should be able to interact with their motor. plenty people prefer stick. esp. in the us plenty people *cannot drive* without automatic
mircea_popescu: what's a free market other than an endless caleidoscope of a mexican standoff
mircea_popescu: bounce also known as "plenty of people in the us cannot drive"
bounce: no need to generalise the point in obvious irrelevancy though
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.05039859 = 0.1008 BTC [+]
bounce recalls reading someone lamenting the world didn't go the wossname "persistent" route -- run a program, it'd auto-save to disk. next time you start it, auto-picks up where you left it. but on full OS level.
bounce: in such an environment it's perhaps easier to see a different abstraction than the "files in directories on drives" we more or less take for granted
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.10144642 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.05039871 = 0.252 BTC [+] {2}
bounce: hm think I read about it elsewhere
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.0565 = 0.226 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.05039879 = 0.252 BTC [+]
bounce: anyway, with flash-backed ram those days could be here again
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.05039879 = 0.2016 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: this discussion neatly maps on the cellphone/landline discussion.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.0504 = 0.2016 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: as in, well, this application will require a start-over anyway
bounce: has risks though, qv second system effect
mircea_popescu: bounce i suspect that risk is mostly mitigated by stalin
bounce: 'sdies, even without need you can, iff you have some vision or other to back it up. that's apparently a rare thing, seeing how there's only only jobs and a fsckton of imitators and NIH-botching immitators
bounce: this the bloody-handed dead guy or some metaphor I'm missing a reference to?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform or moreover, to make sure that none of the imitators survive
mircea_popescu: (even should it come at a cost of a few genuine heads impaled)
mircea_popescu: bounce i used it as a metaphor for a guy who says "you do what i tell you or i kill you" and then proceeds to stick to his word.
bounce: oh. AIUI he'd be wont to kill you for reasons entirely outside your control, too. well perhaps that's apt too.
mircea_popescu: one of the chief complaints of my slavegirls is that they have no measure of control over x
bounce: you more or less sound like that turkish guy in one of the bond novels
benkay: mircea_popescu regarding weight loss: what, everything sags a little?
bounce: not being in control and getting punished for things not under your control are different things though
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9952 @ 0.00095181 = 9.4724 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: bounce well if you're dealing with stalin, you're not getting punished.
Mats_cd03: i find the boobies to be the most erotic part of the woman
mircea_popescu: Mats_cd03 meet my friend freud, he has some observations to make.
Mats_cd03: does your friend freud have boobies?
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
mircea_popescu: my friend freud says that since you said it just as i was going to bed, clearly it's the case.
Mats_cd03: let me know if freud is any good in bed
gribble: ninjashogun was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 20 hours, 29 minutes, and 32 seconds ago: <ninjashogun> hi, asciilifeform
gribble: CheckDavid was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 20 hours, 37 minutes, and 27 seconds ago: <CheckDavid> Haha
benkay: there's some interesting synchronous behavior.
bounce: I don't suppose there'd be a way to get a ban for selling wow gold overturned on the grounds that blizzard isn't paying taxes over it
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 106 @ 0.00282912 = 0.2999 BTC [-] {6}
diametric: bounce: my experience is banned accounts almost always stay banned, unless you can convince someone you were hacked.
ozbot: Facebook purchases VR headset maker Oculus for $2 billion | Ars Technica
diametric: in my experience, i was special banned, and almost sued
B007: nooooooooooooooooooo
benkay: zuck wants to point and laugh at carmack the code monkey
bounce: only $400M and a sack of fool's gold
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.05402103 = 0.108 BTC [-] {2}
benkay: whatsapp for 16b and oculus rift for 400m?
diametric: though after they banned me I was very tempted to rape their policies in as many ways as I could.
benkay: that's damn insulting.
diametric: benkay: they didn't buy whatsapp for 16b, they bought 450 million users.
bounce: $4G + shares and things, apparently
gribble: Nick 'diametric', with hostmask 'diametric!~diametric@2604:3400:dc1:43:216:3eff:fe27:bf9d', is identified as user 'diametric', with GPG key id BDD47433133081CF, key fingerprint 0789CB4F508B384EB74CEFBFBDD47433133081CF, and bitcoin address None
benkay: ;;calc 16000000000/450000000
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.0568 = 0.1704 BTC [+]
diametric: mircea_popescu: i didn't sell gold, but i did other things that caused them to actually track down my place of employment via linkedin and try to have my fired. I should actually state it wasn't Blizzard. Blizzard was not bad about it, it was the brass as Activision.
diametric: I have since decided maintaining a linked in profile is a bad idea.
mircea_popescu: if some random schmucks manage to get you fired you're better off weithout the idiots anyway.
diametric: well, I was never actually in danger of getting fired, I just did not enjoy having that much personally identifiable information hanging out there.
bounce: if you look at the (wikipedia) list of acquisitions it's the userbase they pay most for. actual tech doesn't sell well, databases full of users do.
gribble: Nick 'B007', with hostmask 'B007!~B007@unaffiliated/b007', is not identified.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 5 @ 0.0509 = 0.2545 BTC [+]
diametric: mircea_popescu: though, I guess they ultimately did me a favor. It broke my addiction to MMOs and gaming in general, though I do play casually from time to time.
mircea_popescu: as far as i can remember i always used tos as toilet paper and never suffered for it.
benkay: great thing about the USG is that there's enough ToS for an entire lifetime of butt wiping.
benkay: and the service ain't that great anyways so fuck 'em.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 20 @ 0.10144642 = 2.0289 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.0554 = 0.1108 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: at some point dodgy promoters are going to run out of angles to try and spamvertise donations. then what ?
ozbot: PC4-200P Amphenol Aerospace | Mouser
ozbot: Craig Show - Animals close-up with a wide angle lens - YouTube
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 9 @ 0.05689999 = 0.5121 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15400 @ 0.0009523 = 14.6654 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3433 @ 0.00095088 = 3.2644 BTC [-]
dexX7: gribble: can you tell me what 4 pm et in utc is?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 4 @ 0.05400053 = 0.216 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6771 @ 0.00095088 = 6.4384 BTC [-]
dexX7: ty, i guess it's only a matter of the right question ;)
mike_c: that's weak. it does measurements for you. i guess timezones aren't as popular
mike_c: ;;google 4mm to inches
mike_c: hm, gribble doesn't support it anyway
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 140 @ 0.00294126 = 0.4118 BTC [+] {8}
ozbot: New IRS Bitcoin Rules Pose a Problem Only an Army of Startups Can Solve | Wired Enterprise | Wired.c
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 9 @ 0.08220512 = 0.7398 BTC [-] {5}
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: On the planet where the rectothermal is repackaged as a fashionable relaxation on par with massage and enemas here.
benkay: the planet where the führer's shit is the only cake you've ever eaten.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16821 @ 0.00095007 = 15.9811 BTC [-]
jurov: yall don't understad. They are Proudly Officially Recognized for once!
ozbot: California Cracks Down on Hacker Boot Camps | Wired Enterprise | Wired.com
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 2640 @ 0.00281087 = 7.4207 BTC [-] {13}
jurov: since fucking is, everything follows
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.10144642 BTC [-]
jurov: in the US most of it is
mircea_popescu: and then ran off and made a real estate development which floundered
mircea_popescu: and then tried to come back to bitcoin for more and got smashed
mircea_popescu: and now imagines somehow he'll be allowed to hold customer funds.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17750 @ 0.00094728 = 16.8142 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7431 @ 0.00094721 = 7.0387 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: Well, it's by the Wired guy who got pissy on twitter.
jurov: kenna strives to have his scam documented in IRS-compliant manner
jurov: and that will be his undoing
mircea_popescu: eh, currently the usg policy is something along the lines of "well why put away the scammers, they're useful players"
mircea_popescu: in that you can always have them inform on anyone else stupid enough to be in business with them.
mircea_popescu: as far as the alphabet soup is concerned, the ideal situation is to have everything penetrated by people like kenna.
mircea_popescu: on one hand they're scum anyway, so not likely they'll suddenly discover a backbone, and on the other hand even if they were to try you already have enough on them to put them away for a long, long time.
mircea_popescu: the problem with this, of course, is that it doesn't actually work.
mircea_popescu: which is the fundamental reason why stuff like the wot and otc trade and so forth are so important.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14079 @ 0.00095052 = 13.3824 BTC [+]
ninjashogun: Google Securities Act Section 2(a)(1) and read the first sentence
ninjashogun: Google: "Securities Act Section 2(a)(1)" and read the first sentence
ninjashogun: and Google: "Exchange Act Section (3)(a)(10)" and read the first sentence (of the pdf)
ninjashogun: "Mr. Viragh, \p If it constitutes a security, yes. \pThe definition of security is included in Securities Act Section 2(a)(1) and Exchange Act Section (3)(a)(10). In addition, the term “investment contract” has been further defined by court cases. While the determination that “stocks” and “bonds” are securities may be fairly simple (because they are specifically named in these definitions), the determination
ninjashogun: as to whether something is an investment contract is a fact-specific analysis. \p The Division of Trading and Markets "
ninjashogun: I asked about accepting bitcoin for shares on my site - since it's "play money" (monopoly money) that is PC software and anyone can run it (like a video game) to generate the virtual internet coins.