asciilifeform: in other noose, zoolag is back in service

asciilifeform: ( nfi why went down, linux is 'helpful' as always )

asciilifeform: heya mod6

asciilifeform: what's new in mod6dom

asciilifeform: neato

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: not over yet. i'm on a short vacation from vacation

asciilifeform: then going right back.

asciilifeform: lol it's not exactly high tech

asciilifeform: in fact i had similar (nao lost , sadly, to disk rot ) item from uni hw

asciilifeform: ( maybe phf remembers ! cs 412 at umd )

asciilifeform: but in point of fact, no joak, you dun need ANY moar of an os than ^ above, to do usefulwork.

asciilifeform: most particularly you don't need writable storage. i'ma make a demo box with 'p' and no nonvolatiles.

asciilifeform: lol i had nfi d00d still in biznis

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-01#1692309 << i get paywall ☝︎

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-01#1692321 << ahahahaha another fine production of 'let's read #trilema and never cite', так победим! folx ☝︎

asciilifeform: 'The flaw is that the set of transactions mixed together that provides the anonymity set, is never all of the unspent transactions (UTXO) on the blockchain.' followed by various spurious deductions and push of 'zerocash' scamcoin

asciilifeform: poor buggers, stuck 'invent typesafe optimizing compiler' when ada already existed in 1982

asciilifeform: but you won't get tenure for 'let's ada'

asciilifeform: just as you won't for 'let's rsa'

asciilifeform: ( see thread re latter subj from last march )

asciilifeform: lollamatic

asciilifeform: ahahahahayes

asciilifeform: y'know, pissing in pants where you stand takes even LESS space

asciilifeform: why not do that.

asciilifeform: and why does a ship even need urinals ? piss over the rail.

asciilifeform: iirc they had ~this prior to the chix captains thing

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-02#1692429 << ever lived in a house with a leaking reddit pipe ? ☝︎

asciilifeform: terrible thing

asciilifeform: out, out, it seeps.

asciilifeform: bad enough when leakage is out on the sidewalk.

asciilifeform: in other noose!, a samsung ssd lasts about 2y in a high-traffic trb node.

asciilifeform: RIP zoolag ( until replacement comes... )

asciilifeform: lol

asciilifeform: it's a wear part.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-07-16#1203271 << birth ☝︎

asciilifeform: so gave a solid 2y.

asciilifeform: ACHTUNG S.NSA CUSTOMERS! all outstanding FUCKGOATS orders shipped.

asciilifeform back in biznis

asciilifeform: https://archive.is/Ybp6T << apparently... gavin also still inbiznis.

asciilifeform: !~later tell mod6 http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-02#1692547 << i'll do it. unless danielpbarron REALLY yearns to ☝︎

asciilifeform: in which case i'll help him.

asciilifeform: !~later tell cazalla http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-02#1692480 << http://nosuchlabs.com/hardware.html is new since iirc last you were here. ☝︎

asciilifeform: scatha (~markus@p508D264D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) has joined #trilema << it is rather remarkable imho how there ALWAYS has to be a connectolade-spamming dipshit at any given time

asciilifeform: one dies, another takes his place.

asciilifeform: trinque: potentially very useful

asciilifeform: mod6: i'm sitting on a massive stash of vintage packages

asciilifeform: but not necessarily the best selection, nor oldest vintages.

asciilifeform: largely circa 2011.

asciilifeform: about 12GB worth.

asciilifeform: 'An activist group, which claims Coinbase's decision is akin to a brokerage withholding new shares from its investors, warns it will commence a class action suit after August 15 if the company doesn't release the Bitcoin Cash. Meanwhile, an attorney named Priyanka Ghosh-Murthy told Fortune she intends to file a complaint—invoking negligence, breach of fiduciary duty, and unjust enrichment—in Florida by the end of the week.' << lo

asciilifeform: l!!

asciilifeform wonders if goxes will be 'obligated' to maintain nodes for every shitfork , or only Officially-blessed ones

asciilifeform: elsewhere in heathendom, https://archive.is/CSXhd << 'Facebook, Microsoft, Twitter, and YouTube (Google/Alphabet, Inc) have formed the Global Internet Forum to Counter Terrorism and Amber Rudd is asking them to quietly drop end-to-end encryption from their products.' ☟︎

asciilifeform: 'drop' lol

asciilifeform: complete with schneier in there.

asciilifeform: meanwhile in north monkeystan, https://archive.is/jlIWY >> 'Cable giants step up piracy battle by interrogating Montreal software developer and searching his home'

asciilifeform: 'On June 9, the telecoms got an Anton Piller order, a civil search warrant that gives a plaintiff access to a defendant's home, without notice, to search for and seize relevant evidence before it can be destroyed. A Federal Court judge would later declare the Anton Piller order in this case "unlawful," but that was weeks after a group of men arrived at Lackman's door at 8 a.m. on June 12. Lackman says the group included a bailiff, t

asciilifeform: wo computer technicians, an independent counsel and a lawyer representing Bell, Rogers and Videotron.'

asciilifeform: '...Lackman's belongings still haven't been returned. Nor can he access the TVAddons website or its social media accounts, which were also seized as part of the original order. That's because Bell, Rogers and Videotron have appealed the court decision and a Federal Court of Appeal judge has ruled that until the appeal can be heard, Lackman will get nothing back.'

asciilifeform: ^ achtung pete_dushenski et al

asciilifeform: who said pinkertons went out of style.

asciilifeform: noshit.jpg aha

asciilifeform: ^

asciilifeform: so bad , counter underflows, and it's... good

asciilifeform: sliders!

asciilifeform nostalgiates

asciilifeform: it was in the mass of us tv asciilifeform saw in '90s when he still had a tv, to suck in the language

asciilifeform: it was

asciilifeform: in very very other lulz, asciilifeform actually got hold of a superH ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-31#1691143 see also ) dev board, sh7216. mega-disappoint : ZERO linux support for the on-board debugger. which one actually NEEDS to do anything whatsoever with the thing. ☝︎

asciilifeform: i can easily see why renesas is ~dead ( chip in production, but largely for existing designs )

asciilifeform: this doesn't change the fact that the only other non-internalflashed serious-horsepower chips are ARMs.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: pretty easily.

asciilifeform: apparently they flashed it in from winblowz.

asciilifeform: pretty common idiocy, sadly

asciilifeform: anyway this isn't half the grief : if it were just a matter of flashing, i could flash via crocodiles, applied externally. but you need the debugger to singlestep.

asciilifeform: nowhere.

asciilifeform: also typical.

asciilifeform: ( dark ages proprietary pre-jtag debugger, it seems, implemented in on-board fpga )

asciilifeform: it exists in everybody's 1990s game console, stereo, vcr, etc. and now also in that fpga item.

asciilifeform: the ~arch~ is documented.

asciilifeform: the shitboard ain't.

asciilifeform: ( other than a pdf where 'flip the dip switches like-so, click in winblowz like-so' )

asciilifeform: for clarity : asciilifeform ain't inluvv with superH. but he ~does~ search for a cpu where 1) respectable (say, even trb-capable) horse 2) no internal flash rom 3) not ARM

asciilifeform: reporting today that result of this is still empty.

asciilifeform: that was the contemplated item

asciilifeform: well yes, so asciilifeform picked up a classic devboard to investigate

asciilifeform: can make board quickly. but nowhere does -- afaik! -- the full doc exist publicly.

asciilifeform: for the debug extensions.

asciilifeform: which in practice are needed to do anything particularly useful.

asciilifeform: aha!!

asciilifeform: leaving empty box.

asciilifeform: asciilifeform however habitually collects and referments the aborted foeti of items which nearly existed, to try an' grow item that exists. because no other materials available.

asciilifeform: ( see also http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607160 observation ) ☝︎

asciilifeform: how else.

asciilifeform: summary : asciilifeform is looking for a 1) 32 ( or greater ) bitness cpu 2) that is able to execute code WHOLLY from external bus ( a la 1980s ), incl from rom 3) not ARM 4) in production

asciilifeform: 5) not intel

asciilifeform: if anyone has any knowledge, even thirdhand, of such a thing existing -- plz to post.

asciilifeform: either documented or reversed.

asciilifeform: nm not different

asciilifeform: i just dun care ~by whom~ documented.

asciilifeform: iirc they have the opposite

asciilifeform: briefly revisiting the cpu thing, incidentally i forgot a 7) not ppc

asciilifeform: ( and no sole-source garbage period. )

asciilifeform: which i'm quite confident leaves : the empty set.

asciilifeform: ibm

asciilifeform: they still sell it, even.

asciilifeform: sparc fit all of the wish list conditions ( incl. being multi source ) when it was alive. today afaik dead.

asciilifeform: major objective of the usg.oracle acquisition, was to nuke it.

asciilifeform: lolwat

asciilifeform: probably 9000 things

asciilifeform: at any rate the published opensparc fpga thing actually worx

asciilifeform tested

asciilifeform: it's what the ru elbrus folx ripped off for elbrus.

asciilifeform: and the ones in cn also iirc.

asciilifeform: this is actually asciilifeform's primary interest re subj

asciilifeform: and answer very very depends on what is required in terms of horse

asciilifeform: upstack -- you can do a great deal with 1 instruction.

asciilifeform: ( as in, 'oisc' )

asciilifeform: there are several known schemes for this.

asciilifeform: the basic tradeoff is, the fewer the moving parts in cpu, the more constrained is the horse by the switching elements' speed.

asciilifeform: ( consider, elementarily, pipeline vs. none , for instance. )

asciilifeform: or the cost of not having a barrel shifter.

asciilifeform: or a multer. etc

asciilifeform: ( or, on the extreme end of things, not having arithmetic other than add-one. as scheme chip did. )

asciilifeform: correct. but the answers to these depend SEVERELY on the substrate. for instance, if your thing lives in a fpga, not filling it up doesn't make it cycle any faster. so you want to actually use the available gates, if they can be used productively

asciilifeform: ditto for a die made with particular process -- empty space doesn't get your money back

asciilifeform: ( it can lower thermal output, so still makes sense sometimes to have empty. )

asciilifeform: one other gotcha: complexity has a cost.

asciilifeform: it apparently is a surprise to some people.

asciilifeform: ( largely because they historically were able to externalize the cost. )

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it was a pretty ordinary thing in '80s

asciilifeform not aficionado of sparc specifically. it's a complexityhog.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you can't have infinitely elastic registers. there's N bits , physically.

asciilifeform: the word is this-wide.

asciilifeform: physical objects all contain immutable 'magic numbers'.

asciilifeform: the index into these is a register. having some immutable width.

asciilifeform: the thing being indexed, gets populated ( or not ) exactly like, e.g., ipv4, or the holes in your pci bus, etc

asciilifeform: and yes it's ridiculous . but they forced themselves into it by having the window thing at all, is the idea.

asciilifeform: i mention sparc as a historic item, it is afaik no longer possible to source it.

asciilifeform: ( other than by baking into fpga. which 1) introduces the 'which fpga, again' problem 2) if you have fpga, big enough for sparc, you can make up a SANE arch to go in it

asciilifeform: )

asciilifeform: ?

asciilifeform: fpga only

asciilifeform: never existed as an actual physical chip.

asciilifeform: there's NO shortage of these.

asciilifeform: i have own, even.

asciilifeform: what i was looking for, is actual physical off-the-shelf cpu.

asciilifeform: ( that doesn't rely on closed xilinx 20GB turdchain to fill, doesn't contain a flash rom, doesn't double as a frying pan )

asciilifeform: looks like golden toilet asicization exists (existed) ?

asciilifeform: unsurprise

asciilifeform: but go and buy.

asciilifeform: yes. but not on open market, is the point.

asciilifeform: as in buy at digikey or other mainstream supply house .

asciilifeform: ( and if i were producing $box by the million, i wouldn't deal with these derps and use their weird arch, but have my own asiced. )

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-30#1677807 << see also thread... ☝︎

asciilifeform: what would that mean

asciilifeform: ( if mircea_popescu meant a chip-that-checks-bounds. which existed at various points, e.g. symbolics lineup supported ada natively just as well as lisps . )

asciilifeform: lol, as in basic interpreter, actually moving the fucking humanreadable strings around ?

asciilifeform: that'd mean 'shuffling the human strings' necessarily.

asciilifeform: which come in variable widths.

asciilifeform: the lispm was pointedly NEVER anything of the kind.

asciilifeform: huamnreadables come in variablewidths, so this doesn't work in physical reality.

asciilifeform: in the end when you try an' make this, you end up with essentially the bolix chip.

asciilifeform: the addresses are where you diverge from humanreadablelang.

asciilifeform: not the instructions.

asciilifeform: ada is interesting because 1) all array accesses bounds checked. you CAN hardwarize this. but also 2) whole program is forced to conform to strict rules, said conformance can only be evaluated during compilation, and strictly when taken as whole

asciilifeform: you can't hardwarize 2.

asciilifeform cannot rightfully apprehend the confusion that leads to this question.

asciilifeform: possibly mircea_popescu had read my http://www.loper-os.org/?p=46 piece. but in re lisps, there are specific operations that are missing from extant hardware : gc/cons, and boundscheckedarrayaccess. these are clumsily implemented in software.

asciilifeform: lul

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there's a substantive function, in transistor-poor era , to break down high level lang into the type of ops realistically fittable into silicon

asciilifeform: ops like 'move these 64 bits from this-here-place to that-there-place' etc

asciilifeform: that was the contention of my piece ( linked above )

asciilifeform: but it was written from specific pov of lispm aficionado gripe -- where's my boundschecked dereference and hardware gc.

asciilifeform: from ada pov only the former is relevant.

asciilifeform: but in neither case does the instr set 'fully correspond to the language'. in the case of ada in particular, there is a useful thing that happens ~where whole program~ is examined.

asciilifeform: trinque: hey, d00d is 'sane' enough that he offloads his insanity to a shannonizer. weakling!11

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: from commentz in my www, linked item

asciilifeform: lolty

asciilifeform: dun think so

asciilifeform: ...why?

asciilifeform: i'll confess, i never had a pc-jr.

asciilifeform: 1980s rubbish micro.

asciilifeform: ( was a cheapened version of ibmpc, circa '84 iirc )

asciilifeform: i dun think i ever had an 8086 without 640k

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i still have nfi which d00d it is, who claimed to know me

asciilifeform reads..

asciilifeform: so far sad folx, referring to loongson as if it existed

asciilifeform: and even to 'mill' ( a gavinization of a poor reading of asciilifeform's unbuilt arch )

asciilifeform: it isn't the typical pit of screaming imbeciles, tru

asciilifeform: the 'please dun log us' bit is lulzy considering fleanode.

asciilifeform: it == 'only nsa log us plox'

asciilifeform: lol looks like a bolixwhisperer

asciilifeform: why not ask him why he didn't bittorrent WHOLE MOTHERFUCKING STASH

asciilifeform: lemme guess, 'reasons'

asciilifeform: d00d ain't an archaeologist, he's a grave robber.

asciilifeform: sitting on stash and inflating own sense of significance by 'keeping seekrits'

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fair

asciilifeform: rhetorical 'ask'im'

asciilifeform: gridcompass was neato btw

asciilifeform: i've been trying to buy one for ages.

asciilifeform: ( 1st lappy in any useful sense of the word. powered -- and afaik still does - american and french 'nuke football', among other applications. )

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i read to the end and still have nfi who these folx are. i suspect we have ( charitably ) case of mistaken identity.

asciilifeform: asciilifeform is unable to map the fella in the snippet to anyone he ever met in meatspace or corresponded with.

asciilifeform: phf: y'know if you suspected the mail ain't getting through -- could have asked.

asciilifeform: it ain't any kind of mystery how to contact asciilifeform , or where

asciilifeform: never met

asciilifeform: never afaik wrote.

asciilifeform: looks to be connected with the 'lispm engineer' derp even

asciilifeform: !~google site:http://www.loper-os.org tr0n

asciilifeform: !~google site:http://www.loper-os.org tr1nitr0n

asciilifeform: yeah didnt think so , not there either.

asciilifeform: ( was thinking -- comment d00d ? )

asciilifeform: 'A break from my usual exotic, esoteric, rare and high-end vintage computers- I built a 486DX2 66mhz DOS shitbox for reliving my childhood.' ( from his twatter ) << lulzily, i did this recently..

asciilifeform: grid?

asciilifeform: was 1st porta-comp that wasn't 'oscilloscope' shaped

asciilifeform: ah that's called 'luggable'

asciilifeform: i.e. 'oscilloscope shaped'

asciilifeform: aka 'herniators'

asciilifeform: lol!

asciilifeform: at least not to... right a collegepaper

asciilifeform: or to rite.

asciilifeform: d00d's twatter full of liberasty of various sorts

asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hp9NHNKTV-M << from d00d's links: circa 1993 film of mit ai lab 9th floor, walkaround. possibly interesting to phf et al.

asciilifeform: at 1"04' pile of bolix, connectionmachine, etc

asciilifeform: betcha there ain't a single nonx86 comp ( or nonx86 brain!11 ) in that bldg right nao

asciilifeform: if it even still stands.

asciilifeform: aha!!

asciilifeform: the 1/8th scale (!!) chopper alone, tells tale

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: each of those fat squat boxes is a 3650 and was something like 200k usd ( 1980s usd )

asciilifeform: that's the detail that makes asciilifeform's jaw drop tho.

asciilifeform: other than that : looks like 'ordinary' uni lab

asciilifeform: the interesting bit is not the golden toilet aspect, but that mit bought up a good % of the whole run

asciilifeform: ( there were maybe a 1000 made, iirc )

asciilifeform: 9"0' : 'whatcha up to?' 'making some retinal implants...' 'didja solve the glue problem' 'yea we solved the glue problem..'

asciilifeform: afaik yea

asciilifeform: mostly laser victims

asciilifeform: and little else

asciilifeform: (b) is a recurring boojum in prosthetics as a whole

asciilifeform: from same twatter, lulz, 'jwz: DNA Lounge update, wherein DNA Lounge will be closed soon, without your help.'

asciilifeform: i had nfi!

asciilifeform looks at derp's www, finds that it still alive, but begging for donations

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the original jwz

asciilifeform: he ran a restaurant/club thing

asciilifeform: now begs

asciilifeform: 'just wanted!'

asciilifeform: ( https://archive.is/2uzG7 for posterity. )

asciilifeform: phf: i dunno how to parse this

asciilifeform: ' RoHS = Restrictions on Hand Soldering ' ( good one. and true : as described in http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1871 , shit dun melt worth shit with any available iron ) ☟︎

asciilifeform: http://kremlin.enterprises/post/129322695175/your-code-is-so-bad-we-had-to-make-etclocal << another whisperer

asciilifeform: ( linked from subj )

asciilifeform: rembrandting the poor old junkers

asciilifeform: 'selling even one of these in today’s market would recoup the cost of everything we purchased, the van rental & gas between here and boston, the cost of freighting hundreds and hundreds of pounds of equipment from new york to washington state with enough left over to purchase a brand new macbook'

asciilifeform: apparently https://www.instagram.com/kalmanreti existed.

asciilifeform had nfi

asciilifeform: it is hilarious, all of these d00dz know one another

asciilifeform: have own whispererwot

asciilifeform: and studiously avoided ever writing to asciilifeform , though will claim to have, and even to have met him in meat ( i know quite well that i have met none, and never saw any such mail )

asciilifeform: i will illustrate my comment 'they are grave robbers, not archaeologists'. take, for instance, https://www.instagram.com/p/BUXulHRgjEZ/?taken-by=tr1nitr0n ( it dun show on archive.is, i have nfi why . ) pictured is derp buys 4 (! and where?!) smbx ivory cpu

asciilifeform: and who knows how many idiots like this, for how many years, and guess what, NOT ONE electron micrograph published

asciilifeform: NOT ONE fully working emulator

asciilifeform: NOT ONE even full instruction set doc.

asciilifeform: but 'black archaeology' imbecile gets to feel warm an' speshul.

asciilifeform: and rembrandts them on, to next idiot, for 100x price, 'to the moon!'

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-23#1631499 << see also... ☝︎

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-23#1631510 in particular. ☝︎

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: neato - what kind ?

asciilifeform: thing eats maybe a full kW/hr

asciilifeform: so promises to be expensive hoster.

asciilifeform: but not impossible in principle

asciilifeform: iirc phf has a working 400

asciilifeform: it ain't terribly useful as a headless deployment thing, tho, really shines as dev tool

asciilifeform: ( no lispm ever built in the classical period had anything like the address space to make it bitcoin-capable, for instance )

asciilifeform: even 200msec of lag makes x11 pipe pretty useless in practice in asciilifeform's experience

asciilifeform: phf: yes but over x11 in your house, not over half a planet

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: know also, these weren't in any sense whatsoever multiuser.

asciilifeform: whoever has the console, has full r/w to whole box

asciilifeform: as opposed to unix etc abstraction

asciilifeform: there was no pretense of isolation in lispm.

asciilifeform: and d00d himself points out re low mtbf. which is sadly tru for ancient box for which ~no replacement parts exist.

asciilifeform: ( is why the rembrandtists buy'em by the dozen, $100,000's worth )

asciilifeform: collectors, in my experience, are wholly http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-23#1631728 . ☝︎

asciilifeform: we're talking about a nonrenewable resource.

asciilifeform: that's already largely spent.

asciilifeform: the hdd is the easy bit.

asciilifeform: go an' replace the 'ivory'.

asciilifeform: not a single 1 of these folx show any symptom whatsoever of having a microscopic part of the most elementary clue re what is involved.

asciilifeform: quite mistaken comparison. classical texts were copyable with bare hands.

asciilifeform: unlike silicon.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is as always quite eager to lowball the market value of anyone not himself

asciilifeform: on my planet , it is ~impossible to hire even ordinary winblowz reversing for anything like sane moneys.

asciilifeform: also i'll note, there are 2 types of copy, the basic 'soviet' type ( where you life everything incl. dec's 'when you care enough to steal the very best' easter egg inscription ) and the kind where you actually get the ~concept~ out

asciilifeform: the former is helpful in propagating the artifact where it may eventually fall into the hands of the latter

asciilifeform: but strictly that.

asciilifeform: this yea

asciilifeform: dunno that the market reflected this notion

asciilifeform: the turks somehow did just fine 'organizing church and state' without them bookz

asciilifeform: i meant the specific ones denied to the rebelling son. ( rather than 'any' )

asciilifeform: turks had own 'second source'.

asciilifeform: i thought constantinopol was 'all pasture inside' at that point..?

asciilifeform: liek bolix after the whisperers are done burning through the last ivory's mtbf yea

asciilifeform: ( collectors, i say, are to bolix as phylloxera is to wine. )

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if this was so ( and iirc it was how u. eco painted it , and for some reason i balked ) then yes

asciilifeform: ( imho hard to picture how the 'still had shit' could sit there yet- unpilfered by that point )

asciilifeform: now THIS is very much a thing

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-02#1692922 << i let this slip by somehow. afaik this is STILL unsolved in the open lit. ( 'this' being 'fpga glue for ssd replacement of st506 drive' ) ☝︎

asciilifeform: ( and that was the EASIEST bit. the console protocol, for instance, is still undocumented; and last time asciilifeform gave a shit, he did not - and still does not - have test equipment fast enough to sample the 200+MHz analogue waveform accurately )