log
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mod6: Si?
BingoBoingo: The lack of freeze here seems to contribute to the softness of the locals
mod6: I can imagine.
asciilifeform: mod6: evidently you dun have enuff comps running!11
asciilifeform finds himself frequently opening window in torture room even in winter
mod6: lol.
mod6: im building a cuntoo right now.
asciilifeform: neato
mod6: trying to generate some more heat
mod6: gotta get some miners in here
asciilifeform: lol
asciilifeform has no miners, but kilowatt or so of old-fashioned pc, + displays
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-29#1890605 << pretty sure i included pics. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-29 18:16 asciilifeform: re argintines, somehow i entirely escaped finding out about 'villa-31' ( http://ru-ar.ru/villa31 notbad www re subj ) , rio-style favela right inside b-a
asciilifeform: oh hm was ~that~ where 'river of piss'
mircea_popescu: the problem is not even that it exists, but that it fails to produce the mireilles d'arc one'd expect, ie slender hungry young hotties.
asciilifeform: the linked ru d00d confirms, apparently filled with 'metre + hat' fuglies
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that was right next to a "high value" site of pomposity further north ; in truth there's a LOT of these in the city of "nightlife" that dun exist and "university professors" with the socks bought on credit.
mircea_popescu: https://www.elles-se-mettent-nues-pour-nous.fr/photos/actrice/m_darc_bonus.jpg << mireille d'arc, for the innocent.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-29#1890610 << nothing like ye olde su. 100% like ye present us / somalia / zululand etc. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-29 18:31 asciilifeform: rom eu are carrying vacuum cleaners, tv sets, computers... country of deficits, like ye olde su'
mircea_popescu: deficits, principally biological. old su, deficits principally material.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's episode with the space heater was distinctly reminiscent of late-su
mircea_popescu: because improvised heaters because insane law against heating because etc.
mircea_popescu: whereas argentards, no law, they supply the constraint naturally -- be being indescribable morons.
mircea_popescu: similarily they don't WRITE anything. su had samizdat BECAUSE REASONS. argentina doesn't have it, nor does it have said reasons. because NO NEED to. might as well pass legislation to forbid cattle the making of stalin jokes.
mircea_popescu: when's the last time a cow made a stalin joke ?
asciilifeform: i find it mind-boggling that 'biological deficit'. where , for instance, did the 2+mil germans go ?
asciilifeform: extinct ? how?
mircea_popescu: i have nfi.
mircea_popescu: and for all the "white supremacist" morons : no fucking wonder they dun wanna discuss argentina.
asciilifeform: by any reasonable expectation, place oughta have turned into n-th reich, compl. with biergartens & lederhosen
mircea_popescu: whiter than 80%+ of the us ; as dumb as anything in the congo basin.
mircea_popescu: i suspect the italians are a terrible import.
asciilifeform: the italians went in 1st tho, neh?
asciilifeform: mid-1800s
mircea_popescu: they kept wenting, 1800s through 1950s.
asciilifeform: http://ru-ar.ru/armia << lulzy, .ar army , '40s-'50s ☟︎
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-29#1890613 << in any approach, this is roughly the issue in vzla also : socialists tryna hard to discuss their internal problems, wholly owned and entirely due TO SOCIALISM in terms of external influence. trotsky was "fascist" don't you know, and maduro is "authoritarian" and whatnot. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-29 18:36 BingoBoingo: Apparently at some point the local socialists called up Rudy Giulianni for advice on countering petty crime. But... the pichis still get their pasta base and the number of rapiñas keep climbing.
mircea_popescu: bullshit. thew problem with socialism, "authoritatian" or "democratic" or blue or green is THAT IT IS SOCIALISM.
mircea_popescu: as proven by the fact that ~any~ non-socialism, authoritarian, democratic or howsoever else, is just fucking fine.
mircea_popescu: but no, gotta talk around the bush, "how should a streetwalker to her make-up to improve her marriage prospects."
mircea_popescu: cuz totally it's because of the makeup, wut.
asciilifeform: 'ru-ar' d00d described 'month -- euphoria, then reality sets in when so happens you want a faucet fixed, or tooth capped, or to buy power brick for lappy' etc ☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: quite.
mircea_popescu: it's hard to imagine you're in a 20mn strong stockyards sprawling 2-3x the surface area of new york
mircea_popescu: it's constantly a "man, i must just not know where the society gathers / parties are / nightlife happens" etc.
mircea_popescu: this lasts as long as it lasts, but if you're actually me and task girls with finding it, and then they (incomprehensibly, and inexplicably) fail and so you cut the town up into squares and have them search it square by square and still NOTHJING turns up, eventually however many months later you can answer authoritatively : the stockyards are bereft of society.
BingoBoingo: Anyways, some ESL leftists picked up something a Uruguayo "scientific historian"/"national systems" professor wrote in an English translation. It's being chopped up for blog.
asciilifeform: 'best magician cannot pull rabbit from hat unless there is actually a rabit in the hat' or how did it go.
asciilifeform: fwiw i liked ar as a coupla-day thing, but can't picture it being so great to have to get on a plane erry time want tooth filled , buy some irons, etc
asciilifeform: i dun have a squadron of searchers to 'square by square', either.
mircea_popescu: you also had the benefit of you know, passive enjoyment of ye above work.
asciilifeform: verily
feedbot: http://trilema.com/2019/la-paz-adica-pacea/ << Trilema -- La Paz, adica pacea.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in child porn, http://images.igavelauctions.com/x/161/Co44972/x38a.jpg ☟︎
asciilifeform: meanwhile, http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2978&cpage=1#comment-19781
asciilifeform: ( iirc somebody asked diana_coman same q once )
feedbot: http://thewhet.net/2019/01/recreation/ << The Whet -- Recreation
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I don't know if anyone asked - I've stated it in the blogpost in clear just the same
feedbot: http://explo.yt/post/2018/03/25/CoinBr-going-offline << serialized delusions -- CoinBr broker going offline
diana_coman: jurov, admittedly I never used CoinBr so don't know much of its previous online presence but I always thought "online" for such a thing meant mpex-style i.e. anyway gpg-based , no?
jurov: diana_coman: mpex does have website that accepts orders in real time
jurov: I'm be doing any requests manually, not in realtime, hence "offline"
diana_coman: I got that part; my surprise was re why is "accepting gpg-signed orders online" a problem for coinbr given the working model of mpex
diana_coman: it's anyway a realtime-without-guarantees afaik: it eats your order online, sure, but it processes it when it gets to it
jurov: No idea if it's still so, but mpex consisted of proxies directly wired to the order processing backend. Only deposits/withdrawals were processed by hand.
diana_coman: so to put this straight: are you saying that the model you describe (proxies directly wired to the order processing backed) would be a liability for CoinBr or what? ☟︎
jurov: yes, the way I built it (webinterface where you log in) became a liability
diana_coman: but then simply change the interface, following existing non-liability model; what am I missing?
diana_coman: sure, log in is a liability,fine; so no login, but it doesn't follow no online
jurov: I will change the interface when there's any interest. There was no usage past year at all. So, no interface, no online processing, for now.
diana_coman: ah, so that's the part that was missing: there is no interest for an online interface
diana_coman: that way I can at least see it, thanks for clarifying, jurov
Mocky: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-30#1890659 << ha, nice sidecar. makes it the motorcycle precursor to nascar... right turns not needed. plus good luck reaching that hand clutch ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-30 00:51 asciilifeform: http://ru-ar.ru/armia << lulzy, .ar army , '40s-'50s
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-30#1890690 << probably because he wants to personally eye all txns, like trinque . there's been a "no automated processes" wind blowinfg for many years. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-30 12:55 diana_coman: so to put this straight: are you saying that the model you describe (proxies directly wired to the order processing backed) would be a liability for CoinBr or what?
asciilifeform: it makes perfect sense if the job 'fits in hands'
asciilifeform: e.g. asciilifeform tested FG's by hand.
mircea_popescu: i didn't have what to argue against it back in 2016 or w/e it started (not that i didn't see it coming, either) and i've not found anything hence. so...
asciilifeform: imho the only possible arg against it is if you have e.g. 2 hands but 500 worth of process. but evidently jurov , trinque , et al had <= 2 hands worth ☟︎
asciilifeform: iirc mircea_popescu was the orig 'lead by example' in subj, ran (part of?) his reactor by hand
mircea_popescu: true enough.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-30#1890697 << it's a classic 'blitzkrieg' zundapp . ( somehow asciilifeform thought that the item is ~instantly recognizable to erryone alive ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-30 14:25 Mocky: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-30#1890659 << ha, nice sidecar. makes it the motorcycle precursor to nascar... right turns not needed. plus good luck reaching that hand clutch
asciilifeform: Mocky: see also http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-05#1878439 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-12-05 02:36 asciilifeform: https://archive.is/YgtWB << subj, in its natural state
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: seems like your crate sprang free from purgatory this morning, and moving
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i recently reread your series re primes, and found http://ossasepia.com/2018/01/04/eucrypt-chapter-4-random-prime-number-generator/#selection-111.241-117.155 interesting -- koch fermats 1st, but this dun actually save any cpu under any circumstances. pretty lulzy.
asciilifeform: ( as i understand, in koch world fermat test uses ~exactly same # of cycles as 1 shot of m-r ) ☟︎
diana_coman: asciilifeform, read also next para as in any case there isn't much point to not do M-R if you do it at all
asciilifeform: ah heh
asciilifeform was going from paper notes, lol
diana_coman: but well, it probably all comes from "yes, but we don't do it properly and therefore..."
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: tyvm, going to investigate
asciilifeform: diana_coman: '0.61 seconds per iteration of M-R' is also lulzy , in context of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-24#1889742 ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-24 00:46 asciilifeform: 0.413s for 2048.
asciilifeform: loox like a replay of the http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2906 thing.
asciilifeform: arguably this one's even moar outrageous, koch manages to lose even tho he uses miniscule bases in his modexp (in m-r)
Mocky: asciilifeform re zundapp, leaving aside that it dun look much like a classic blitzkrieg bike to me, I'm commenting on the massive side car that makes the pictured item factually unusable, even with windshield removed
asciilifeform: by naive expectation, his (faux)m-r oughta me 1000-2000x faster than mine
asciilifeform: Mocky: the krauts used'em, by all accts worked a++
asciilifeform: ( exactly how they did turns, i do not know , but was pretty good all-terrain ride and valuable as spoils , and for many yrs in su they could be seen puttering about )
Mocky: bullshit, no one used a bike that can't turn right for anything except ridicule. it was used with a proper side car!
asciilifeform: Mocky: perhaps i'm thick, but why precisely can the pictured machine not turn right ?
Mocky: handlebar is in contact with the sidecar
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-30#1890713 << the fundamental problem with these amateur cryptographers (as well as with other amateur everythings, from amateur presidents of the united states to amateur socioideologues on fetlife ) is that they go by what "is" rather than by what ~does~. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-30 16:43 asciilifeform: ( as i understand, in koch world fermat test uses ~exactly same # of cycles as 1 shot of m-r )
mircea_popescu: koch is implementing fermat because fermat ~is~ the test, not because fermat ~does~ something.
mircea_popescu: then koch expects to be hired because koch ~is~, whatever the hell he might be, polite, pedigreed, mit-degreed, "famous" in the smartphone sense etcetera.
Mocky: asciilifeform: maybe my eye is misreading the perspective, which would make more sense, but that's how it looks to me
asciilifeform: Mocky: i dun drive these things, but iirc there is some free play b/w sidecar and bike
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is consistent with the overall picture.
mircea_popescu: ars amandi, enough said.
asciilifeform: good % of what's in koch's thing, cannot be explained in any other way.
mircea_popescu: it ALL comes right back down to ye olde http://trilema.com/2016/a-story-of-men/#selection-89.280-89.533 ; romantic notions of love cca 1800s readily map on romantic notions of the world around more generally, hence the amatorial outlook.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for bonus lulz, there is also the 'duct tape' hypothesis. iirc in zimmerman's orig. 'pgp', ~straight fermat~ ( carmichaelizable! ) was used as the sole litmus.
mircea_popescu: and yes, this is exactly what amateur means : one who expects things to work like she imagines copulation works, ie, "love".
asciilifeform: so possible that koch 'duct taped' m-r onto it.
mircea_popescu: that nobody happened to visit the facts of life re the latter upon her sorry ass is a particularly harmful coincidence : way the fuck cheaper to not rape some random walflower, being awkward in a corner. way WAY the fuck more expensive to keep large integers from laughing at kock.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and what do we call the african-argentine plumber who puts in new pipe without taking out old pipe ? "amateur", rite.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we have these here, and they even openly advertise, e.g. 'we'll cement new bathtub into yer old one! 3x cheaper!' etc
mircea_popescu: heh.
asciilifeform: i always picture the result of 5-6 iterations of these, sumthing that loox perhaps like steel mill crucible
asciilifeform: bathtub-footprint, bucket volume
mircea_popescu: Mocky the item depicted ran on all terain, ~50kmph or so.
mircea_popescu: and all-terain in a war thorn europe means some shit re artillery holes and such
asciilifeform: in my mind zundapp is ~the~ 'definitive' motorbike
asciilifeform: ( for post-war su, defo was, to the point that even present-day export market 'ural' is ~exact clone afaik )
Mocky: in my mind zundapp has reversed hand levers and curved license plate on front fender, although I know not all did
asciilifeform: likely the argentines fucked it
mircea_popescu: they're not really very good. modern bmws way the fuck better bikes.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: asciilifeform's mechanic (argentine emigre, incidentally) bought 1 coupla yrs ago. the bugger's huge.
mircea_popescu: http://motosantiguashd.com/dev/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/ks7-13.jpg << genuine period attachment.
asciilifeform: engine easily as big as toyota 4wheel's
mircea_popescu: a man ~fired~ that thing while being driven around. and some exceptional teams even arose, much like ye olde man-horse dualities of the red skins or parthians
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah but extremely stable and maneuvrable.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i picture zundapp as invariably with that mg.
asciilifeform: to the point that 1st time i saw one on actual street, sans mg34, felt 'wrong'
mircea_popescu: that machinegun, incidentally, had more fucking recoil than current toyota engine has torquw
Mocky: yes those are the hand levers can curved plates
mircea_popescu: torque*
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: heh, what was it, 2000 rounds/min ?
asciilifeform: iirc
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i do wonder if the bmw monster's 300 horse, would actually make any useful diff in mud road, vs. the classic zundapp's 10
mircea_popescu: something outright naval
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform very much so, yes. higher power engine can work slower.
asciilifeform: aa in low gear
asciilifeform: the krauts weren't exactly drowning in cheap petrol tho
mircea_popescu: tru. also, contemporary engine would have been a piece of art in 1940s, irreproducible with current tech
asciilifeform: also tru
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's current ride quite likely has moarhorse than 'king tiger' etc
mircea_popescu: hence ye http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-16#1887612 complaint. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-16 16:05 mircea_popescu: it's a pretty sweet item, except for one point : its twin engines together less power than bartholomew.
asciilifeform: building sumthing like today's motor , in the last reich, would be 'clockmaker' job ( hand-polish the parts to tolerance ? ), and defo nonstarter at scale, yea
asciilifeform: the aviation engine folx -- tried.
asciilifeform: ( ~that~ , as i understand, is where a coupla extra horse per kg, is 'life & death' q )
asciilifeform: in other lullies, https://duckduckgo.com/?q=miller+rabin+constant+time << seems like we're the only folx who ever showed detectable symptom of giving a shit..
asciilifeform: in other noose, hats off to BingoBoingo's orccraft, <6day from asciilifeform ordering rk to BingoBoingo uncrating !
BingoBoingo: I am planning to emplace the new Rockchip tomorrow. No downtime is planned, but removing the old and placing the new is going to take some dexterity. ☟︎
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: when you're there, plox to stuff a new disk into dulap so i can breathe life into it
asciilifeform: for the new rk.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Will do
asciilifeform: let's reimage its sd also, ping me when it's time.
asciilifeform: ( can use card from the dead unit )
asciilifeform: meanwhile, http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch16_miller_rabin.kv << ty phf !
mircea_popescu: and in updates : http://trilema.com/republican-thesaurus/#selection-43.0-73.1
mircea_popescu: (i think it makes a rather subtle point, so discussion particularly welcome)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i thought 'amateur' is simply what's left when you subtract folx who bake for money.
asciilifeform: ( in that respect, koch is arguably 'professional', entirely bought an' paid for by microshit et al )
mircea_popescu: it seems to be the older definition, but it's fucking meaningless.
mircea_popescu: somali-argentine "professionals" ain't.
mircea_popescu: and if i hire douchebag to douchebag for a while, he's still an amateur.
asciilifeform: imho 'charlatan' is perfectly adequate description of ~these~
mircea_popescu: i'm telling you, amateur is one who expects the world to "play nice" in whatever random definition he comes up with because daddy had the common fucking decency to not rape 'em while they were growing up, SO THEREFORE!!!
mircea_popescu: koch application of fermat DIRECTLY maps on the above "random definition".
asciilifeform: dunno, peddling snake oil for money is not what i associate with 'amateur'; it's quackery. amateur typically writes 'into desk' and doesn't pollute environment. tho i suppose 'open sores' is changing this.
mircea_popescu: amateur surgeons do exist.
mircea_popescu: they "help people fight cancer"
mircea_popescu: guess how ?
asciilifeform: that'd be quackery, neh
mircea_popescu: cuz unsurprisingly enough, namecalling figures massively.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform quackery is the particular word for amateur medicine. high time for amateur engineering to get a specific word too, but not the end of ther world to wait for it.
asciilifeform: opensores!111
mircea_popescu: and see, aware fraudster very different from amateur.
asciilifeform: pretty sure koch is 100% aware.
mircea_popescu: the woman that fixed the antique jesus picture was amateur reconditioner of old frescoes.
mircea_popescu: various mammies crowding the us congress building -- amateur Mothers of Their Country
mircea_popescu: and so following.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i do not believe he is.
Mocky: seems like an intentional amateur (amateur pilot) is different from an oblivious amateur
asciilifeform vaguely suspects that 'potato jizzus' is moar famous , sadly, than the orig painting nao
mircea_popescu: what's an amateur pilot here ?
asciilifeform: e.g. trinque ☟︎
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform depends in which crowd.
asciilifeform: iirc he flies, but not passengers/for fee
Mocky: not paid to do it
mircea_popescu: i hold this is an entirely spurious distinction.
mircea_popescu: "paid". everything's ever paid.
mircea_popescu: if i take a seat next to you in your car, the large cost is my sitting, the small cost is the money.
asciilifeform: he flies himself, iirc , cuz likes the feel of the wind or etc.
asciilifeform: at own expense.
mircea_popescu: i can't imagine what diff does it make. if airline pilot flies his own cessna one day is now amateur ?
mircea_popescu: you fly looking either in or out. if you fly looking out -- pro. if you fly looking in -- amateur.
asciilifeform: as i understand, diff enuff activity that it is quite separate from what he does for living; and so amateur, just as he is amateur when plays chess
mircea_popescu: comes from "love" for a FUCKING REASON.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and if kasparov plays with you and without an event purse -- amateur ?
asciilifeform: what means to 'fly looking in' ?
mircea_popescu: everyone has a conception of "how world should be", constructed essentially out of Mother in the positive and some "expectations" from personal history.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: e. lasker, for instance, was pro chessist, but amateur go
mircea_popescu: if kasparov plays to win -- pro ; if kasparov plays to feel good about himself -- amateur. money dun enter into it, and proximity to other people entirely spurious socialism tendril.
asciilifeform: i'm beginning to suspect that mircea_popescu is the last living troo subscriber of s. freud
asciilifeform: ( not that freud was wrong, even, re subj. )
mircea_popescu: ammended but not rescinded, i guess i must be.
mircea_popescu: consider though -- am i an AMATEUR writer ? and who's a professional, everyone on the nytimes list ? really ? ☟︎
mircea_popescu: i suppose stalin the definitive amateur, iirc never paid.
asciilifeform: was about to say!
mircea_popescu: obama, tho, that's a pro.
asciilifeform: in a certain old sov children's cartoon there was a crocodile character who , when asked what is his profession, would answer 'i work as myself, there in the zoo'
mircea_popescu: keks.
mircea_popescu: my slaves cook. nobody pays them (of course, there's the http://trilema.com/2018/have-you-ever-paid-for-sex/#selection-35.137-39.757 problem to confound things). all sorta deepfry "cooks" hundred or ten thousand mile radius around you right now, paid to cook. do they ?
asciilifeform: it rose to 'meme', tho, i've seen number of ru folx who 'graduated' from having to work for daily bread, refer to it.
mircea_popescu: seems to me deepfry monkey essentially amateur ; my expert sluts as pro as it can possibly get.
Mocky: I got paid to do some development for a game, but still would say amateur game developer
mircea_popescu: and i also dispute there's any requirement of ~expertise~ for ~professionalism~. utter fucking bullshit of the confused and the definitionless, trying to buy one thing with the other and back again circularly because that's all they got.
mircea_popescu: you can be an inexperienced professional, just as you can be an experienced amateur.
mircea_popescu: in a film in which we see a nurse passing herself for a doctor because whatever in-universe reasons, we have under our eyes an expert amateur doctor!
asciilifeform: in the (possibly surprisingly, to some) not yet dead world of go, there exists such a thing as '9-dan amateur', who can sometimes win against (lower ranked) pro
mircea_popescu: and the theory also readily mops up ye olde http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22coffin%22+%22liner%22 problem : senescence can collapse one back into amateurship!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform exactly!
Mocky: the proposed meaning describes a mindset or attitude only, with no consideration of actual ability
asciilifeform: ( the 'pro' players are entirely diff social circle, tho, and not merely because they live on winnings. they're more or less grown from age 5 to do the thing )
mircea_popescu: allow me to rephrase your http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-22#1889356 / http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-22#1889358 ☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-22 19:27 asciilifeform: fwiw when asciilifeform , not even in teen yrs yet, lost interest in olympiads, this was why.
a111: Logged on 2019-01-22 19:27 asciilifeform: ( didn't particularly relish memorizing chess debuts, either )
mircea_popescu: "when i discovered the universe was artificial i withdrew into amateurship, because you can't commit to following a universe that's broken"
mircea_popescu: Mocky it describes a cognitive context.
mircea_popescu: hence "amateur mistakes" -- mistakes apt to be produced by one who acts as if the world/item/tool/whatever IS HIS MOTHER
asciilifeform: body is as 'broken' as anyffin gets, yet there is still such a thing as pro surgeon
mircea_popescu: body is entirely as unbroken as anything can ever aspire to be.
asciilifeform: eh if unbroken, what's it doing on a surgeon's table
mircea_popescu: huge difference between skeleton and chess.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you're equivocating between body conceptual and body of joe.
asciilifeform: hm
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2011/analiza-tehnica/#selection-39.171-49.1 << ye olde liberman point, "it is forbidden to have a course in nonsense", stands : it is acceptable to be osteopath ; not acceptable to be chess player.
Mocky: mircea_popescu you're equivocating between being an amateur conceptually and being an amateur at X
mircea_popescu: Mocky there's no transitiveness. how can you be an amateur ~at X~ ?
mircea_popescu: are you also old at desk but young at teapot ?
Mocky: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-30#1890838 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-30 18:35 mircea_popescu: consider though -- am i an AMATEUR writer ? and who's a professional, everyone on the nytimes list ? really ?
asciilifeform 9-dan teapot!111
mircea_popescu: kinda what i'm arguing against.
Mocky: if so then why would picking writer be the argument, why not cook?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dug for, but failed to find in O(1), Framedragger's 'model airplanes' thrd
mircea_popescu: ie, that line is intended to show that the alternative understanding of the term is inconsistent.
asciilifeform: where he 'i relax doing this cuz the result dun matter to anyone else'
mircea_popescu: Mocky i cook! i picked writer because it's easy to see my writing and hard to see my fucking.
mircea_popescu: and i'm not an amateur fucker, either!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform quite exactly amateurship, innit!
mircea_popescu: turns out i misspelled cooking. narf.
mircea_popescu: there IS, incidentally, a very marked difference between amateur and serious fuckers, as teh womenz will attest. because the amateur fucker... http://trilema.com/2011/voi-puneti-fetele-sa-zica-ceva/ aka makes you call him "daddy" or w/e.
asciilifeform: imho 'ameteur' vs 'pro' is muchly misleading termnology; 'serious' vs dilettante is as i understand exactly what mircea_popescu was discussing
mircea_popescu: all the fucking scenesters, amateur bdsm folk, have this in common with the pedo and the neurotic-impotent : that they're trying to re-enact.
asciilifeform: is a fella who flies hand-glider on weekends 'trying to re-enact' being bird ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the problem is that in my head dilettante would be one still getting his footing (ie, who has not yet touched all the elements of the field)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i am not responsible to say what exactly ; maybe trying to re-enact being in craddle for all i know.
asciilifeform: ars longa & vita brevis, to touch ~errything~. i'm prepared to piss on koch, but i won't piss on gliderist who gets in nobody's way
mircea_popescu: (anyway, the distinction is spurious, dilettante is LITERALLY italian for "amateur", comes from the same root as gave delight in english)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why do you have to piss ?
asciilifeform: unless i misread thrd, mircea_popescu's implication is that 'amateur' is a type of mental defective
mircea_popescu: not anymore than dreaming is.
mircea_popescu: you go to bed, you close your eyes, your brain goes splat. so what of it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's 'amateur' sounds moar like sleepwalker than ordinary sleeper tho
mircea_popescu: i also didn't set on fire la paz wooden house, notwithstanding it is a reconstruction.
BingoBoingo: The only problem with amateurs is when their efforts get taken seriously and their pursuit out of love makes a mess for everyone trying to do because they need/want good things: http://trilema.com/2013/why-you-cant-invest-with-cryptostocks/
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, sleeper becomes sleepwalker when starts walking ; mp's amateur becomes a nuisance when similarily.
asciilifeform: https://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3065132899827911@naggum.no.html << oblig naggum
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo particularly visible in teh female herd, which is why exposure (as per http://trilema.com/2018/le-salaire-de-lidiotie/#footnote_1_78125 discussion) is such a cure-all of femissues.
mircea_popescu: (and conversely, all the "but i would treat her right and have great sense of humor" non-"asshole" lament, very much this "whay amateur fails!")
asciilifeform: 'tell you what. I receive some cast-away meat from dissections at my nearby veterinary school, and I have absolutely no problem with filling my fridge with dead animal parts. I enjoy studying the interior design of animals while I feed my cat with the meat. if you wade through my garbage, you'd find whole ribs, an assortment of bones, lots of animal skin, an occasional hoof, and a large number of used scalpel blades. I really hop
asciilifeform: e you wouldn't come to me with a sick dog because of it, but that's the way many people approach programmers.'
mircea_popescu: ha!
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> (and conversely, all the "but i would treat her right and have great sense of humor" non-"asshole" lament, very much this "whay amateur fails!") << Also why amateur doesn't have girl dancing in kitchen with knife and garlic while sitting at terminal
mircea_popescu: (to briefly revisit the dilettante issue : the other problem is that dilettante delights in ~consuming the end product~, ie, listening to music. the amateur trombonist and the dilettante jazzist may be a match made in heaven, however, they're not the same thing -- much like the narcissist and his borderline-sleeve gf aren't.)
asciilifeform: lichen + fungus !11
asciilifeform: re the trombonists -- if they're playing in designated padded room, who the hell cares .
asciilifeform: koch et al, 'play in carnegie hall', like the infamous florence foster jenkins
mircea_popescu: well, classification is classification ; the meaning of words flow from reason not from some sort of consideration of political expediency
asciilifeform: i'm not disputing the wires, only the stickers on the wires.
mircea_popescu: tbh, the carnegie hall may be a fine example -- florence jenkins played in what ~everone deemed a "how cute, they made copy out of hut!" item.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, what's the difference between this "amateur" and "childish"?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: where was the orig hut then ?
diana_coman: the world/whatever he does is his Mummy -> child
mircea_popescu: ie, yes, jenkins sings to carnegie hall, koch cryptograpies to the conference plastic carpet, some kids in egypt http://trilema.com/2011/bine-ati-venit-la-noi-in-tara/#selection-177.0-177.14 and so following.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman about five years. childish notions are both narrow and misapplied. amateur notions are merely misapplied, but remarkably extensive.
diana_coman: uhm, you mean one can get out of being childish just by covering ground?
diana_coman: not sure I see how that works
mircea_popescu: i mean if the part of the brain that handles the mechanics of thought moves into adulthood, rendering the subject capable of articulating longer strings and remembering them,
mircea_popescu: whereas the substance of thought does not move into adulthood, rendering the subject incapable to rightly apprehend the world,
mircea_popescu: therefore one's an amateur rather than merely childish.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2014-02-10#494107 << traditional formula of address for amateurs. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-02-10 01:34 mircea_popescu: people can want in one hand and piss in the other, see which fills first.
diana_coman: hm, so amateur is the childish use of adult brain capacity i.e. a mismatch essentially?
mircea_popescu: quite.
Mocky: if a child is doing it, it's not childish, it's child-like. it's only childish for an adult
Mocky: well child-like is not the term, but I do think childish only applies to adults. calling a child childish would be in jest
mircea_popescu: so by your nomenclature normal 5yo, "child-like", mongoloid 20 yo "childish", etc ?
mircea_popescu: iirc it went the other way around.
mircea_popescu: Mocky calling a woman sexy, also in jest, term reserved for prepubescent girls and boys of all ages ?
feedbot: http://qntra.net/2019/01/computing-timeshare-market-xdecid-shuttered-by-fbi/ << Qntra -- Computing Timeshare Market xDecid Shuttered By FBI
diana_coman: to my mind all children ARE childish, what else; but in their case that's just by definition basically, they can't be something else, not an issue
mircea_popescu: i don't necessarily kid if i call my car carsy either.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo " xDedic" or " xDecid" ?
mircea_popescu: though i suppose the proper name'd be http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=uci
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: xDedic, fxd
BingoBoingo: Well, a sort of proto UCI
diana_coman: I can see at least the distinction proposed there with amateur vs childish
mircea_popescu: diana_coman note that the class of childish notion's wider than the class of amateur tropes.
mircea_popescu: children routinely make all sorts of mistakes, chief among which the naive extension (ie http://btcbase.org/log/2018-12-01#1877543 ) and dynamic-static confusion ( http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-22#1756978 ) ☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-12-01 21:21 mircea_popescu: "the notion that airplanes could reproduce through laying eggs is merely a naive extension, in the vein of 'object A has properties a and b ; object B shares property a and therefore it is reasonable ~~~on a first approximation~~~ to expect it exhibit proerty b'. nevertheless, artifacts differ from nature in that one fundamental aspect, that they're inefficient, and therefore to achieve same ends end up heavy, and in the case
a111: Logged on 2017-12-22 16:45 mircea_popescu: in other notes to the self, I was recently looking desperately for that discussion of the static/dynamic infantile error, but gave up in frustration. neverhteless, here it is : http://trilema.com/2016/why-is-that/#selection-221.55-225.273
mircea_popescu: whereas amateurs specialize in one particular branch of childish mistake : stuff to with love.
mircea_popescu: making jesus (not as either the historical character or the pre-1800s various layers of reported historical character) the elliot of amateurs.
diana_coman: really? so what, if you notice an amateur making at some point ALSO a childish mistake then...it's not an amateur anymore?
diana_coman: begging the q: what is it then
mircea_popescu: from reviewing my past practice, i suspect i'd call them "retarded".
mircea_popescu: ie, yes.
diana_coman: uhm, maybe this particular love-mistake is so significant in practice to really make the distinction that no, they are not retarded, they are just ...dunno, love-seeking? and anyway then...why is this not just retarded as well?
mircea_popescu: but anyway, the amateur, as a category, is very much a 19th century late-protestantism invention, along with such greats as "altruism" etcetera. they have little anchoring in reality, being as they are the waste byproducts of a specific stage of industrial society.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman "retarded" is a term for ~broad~ failure. narrow failure, ie one that can be described on a single node, doesn't seem to meet it.
mircea_popescu: some guy who can't spell, because cotsnaltny doign htis, is you know, merely dyslexic. if they ALSO can't tie their own shoes... well...
diana_coman: I suppose it's a matter of how broad is broad enough basically: i.e. e o ureche si nici n-aude bine
mircea_popescu: just about.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the amateur behaviour is actually not unknown among children. now and again you see some kid (esp one that's not usually violent) FURIOUS to the point of rabid because some other kid "cheated", ie, did something the universe supported but the kid's mind did not. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: at about the age of 10-11 or so, children, that were previously quite happy to play together, separate very visibly into pro-player and amateur-player groups.
mircea_popescu: the distinction generally matches their gender, too. girls tend to end up in the amateur-player groups. not so much climbing and activities with sticks that are wont to show one how inadequate human life is in a contest with sheer reality ;
mircea_popescu: lotta play-pretend and so forth instead.
diana_coman: you mean: at/after puberty, girls can't quite beat the shit out boys anymore and therefore they stop fighting them directly; lol
mircea_popescu: the traditional period greeting among boys, etched as it finds itself in my memory, went "ma, tu poti asa ?" ie, "hey, can you do this ?". girls tended to challenge each other rather to knowledge of particular conventions, "you read so and so book ?! SO DID I!!!" ☟︎
mircea_popescu: diana_coman entirely possibru! though the ~average~ girl is still no match for the lower placed boys. so i wouldn't call it "can't" properly speaking.
diana_coman: I don't quite parse that
diana_coman: do you mean that the average girl can still beat the lower placed boys after puberty?
diana_coman: that might be, sure; doesn't change much though yes, strictly speaking "can" aka a qualified can
mircea_popescu: that's what i mean, yes.
mircea_popescu: actually, if they at all cared to... here, let me recount an anecdote.
mircea_popescu: so the year's sometime in the golden 90s, and some super-duper karate trainer guy who happens to also be a friend of the family is visiting. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: he has a daughter. she is almost exactly my age.
mircea_popescu: so we go to the club, because what can you do ?
mircea_popescu: i have her walk in front of me ; and JUST as i'm explaining that nobody'd better fucking molest my guest or else, i feel some schmuck interlacing himself in front of me.
mircea_popescu: clubs in the 90s were TIGHT.
mircea_popescu: and then JUST as i turn to grab the dood by the scruff of his neck and see who the fuck this is then, what, am i talking to myself here ?!
mircea_popescu: he collapses soft as a rag in my arms.
mircea_popescu: chick slid her ass to the side and cracked him one shoe square in the forehead, after he grabed her ass.
mircea_popescu: i have nfi how she found the room for such kicking, but, the fact remains -- very much ~could~, a good half of all males are not worth the chickenfeed.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-30#1890962 << hey how does one say 'взять на слабо' in ro ? ( trad. method of 1 boy getting another to do something foolish, 'hey betcha yer too weak to X!' ) ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-30 19:40 mircea_popescu: the traditional period greeting among boys, etched as it finds itself in my memory, went "ma, tu poti asa ?" ie, "hey, can you do this ?". girls tended to challenge each other rather to knowledge of particular conventions, "you read so and so book ?! SO DID I!!!"
mircea_popescu: !#s "jump in the well"
a111: 0 results for "\"jump in the well\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22jump%20in%20the%20well%22
mircea_popescu: hm. i am sure i mentioned it!
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-30#1890957 << >> http://trilema.com/2015/a-new-software-licensing-paradigm/#selection-125.354-125.545 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-30 19:37 mircea_popescu: anyway, the amateur behaviour is actually not unknown among children. now and again you see some kid (esp one that's not usually violent) FURIOUS to the point of rabid because some other kid "cheated", ie, did something the universe supported but the kid's mind did not.
mircea_popescu: you know ?
asciilifeform: recurrent motif
asciilifeform brb,tea
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, well, it's basically those who really cared to vs those who really did NOT care to, will always be able to; uhm? the whole thing was those who really cared to vs those who really cared to, otherwise not much sense imo
mircea_popescu: well, which brings us full circle : girls seemed to prefer that way rather than this, notwithstanding that they ~could~ have earned a decent spot on the rooster if earnestly tried.
mircea_popescu: but, for some reason (which i suspect -- only in part cultural, and besides, why would a girl believe her mother) they tend to not want to earnestly try.
diana_coman: ehm, from personal experience I can tell you that precisely at that age there is basically a massive handicap all of a sudden; and quite visible too
diana_coman: so yes, sure, still can, but here, have it even harder because reasons
mircea_popescu: you mean tits ?
mircea_popescu: 11yos don't have tits.
diana_coman: hrm, some don't , lol; tits and ass and even more than that
mircea_popescu: my point is that the behavioural separation is visible rather before secondary sexual characteristics.
diana_coman: hormones also affect how much /easy muscle is put on for instance
mircea_popescu: that's for sure. though THAT only comes into its own when i sit here typing and bulk up while the girls are (even now!) at the gym and... nothin' doin'.
mircea_popescu: nicoleci aaaahahaha RAW CHICKEN
nicoleci: mircea_popescu, fetlife never disappoints. the best part of it is how he gave an explanation on why he thought that for a whole second and posted the comment
nicoleci: should probably try for a raw lamb next time
mircea_popescu: aite, ima add a cleaver to the list.
nicoleci: should be a fun demonstration for everyone at the store
BingoBoingo: Maybe give Cuy a try
BingoBoingo: Cavia porcellus for the uninitiated
nicoleci: haha, then next a capybara
BingoBoingo: I can't speak as to the taste of capybara
BingoBoingo: Cuy's kinda like a fattier rabbit, cooked like a small duck
BingoBoingo: And the locals shot a second police officer this week. Monday's in Villa Española. This one in La Blanqueda.
nicoleci: yeah me either, we should change this. i wonder if mircea_popescu's scope of pretentiousness reaches tasting a fine capybara
asciilifeform: lol asciilifeform misread, was just about to ask how one prepares a capybara an' how was the meat
asciilifeform pictures it as a 20kg rabbit, and mouth waters
asciilifeform: or 1 of those iguanas, say
asciilifeform: oh hey BingoBoingo finally dined on ultra-short pig ?
asciilifeform recalls'em at the BingoBoingostan market, right next to the other meat on the hoof
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-30#1890969 << was karatism ultra-popular in '80s ro, like in late sovok ? ( there, was ubiquitous, esp. on acct of being Officially verboten ) ☝︎☟︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2019-01-30 20:03 mircea_popescu: so the year's sometime in the golden 90s, and some super-duper karate trainer guy who happens to also be a friend of the family is visiting.
asciilifeform: 1 of the 1st things asciilifeform remembers reading as a larva , is a street poster advertising 1 of those underground dojos