tmsr - Log 2019-01-24

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mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo Mocky yeah lol

mircea_popescu: keks of all time, the imaginary "civil society" is gonna benefit from ustardation.

asciilifeform: possible bonus lol if boat stuck during steam back from syria to ukrazuela on acct of winblowz-nt crash

asciilifeform: meanwhile , measurements : 2.533s is cost of 1 shot of 4096bit m-r (on standard tester iron) ☟︎

a111: Logged on 2019-01-11 17:30 asciilifeform: btw per asciilifeform's chalkboard, the physical cost of constanttime m-r is ~equal to that of (2 modexps of the given width) x (number of witnesses) .

asciilifeform: must point out tho that you dun leak anyffin if you terminate the m-rism for X after first failed shot.

asciilifeform: ( for n00bz, m-r is montecarlistic for probable-primality but deterministic for compositeness, i.e. if outputs 'composite' then you have in fact a composite )

asciilifeform: naturally each new X is pumped from FG, rather than kochian increment or any such thing

asciilifeform: this means that the gcd pre-litmus is an unambiguous win ( and you also dun leak anyffin if you terminate after X flunks the pre-litmus and you go an' get a new X)

a111: Logged on 2019-01-09 00:19 asciilifeform: in other noose, constant-time stein-gcd aint so bad, 1msec (2048bit operands) , 6msec (4096bit) , 21msec (8192bit), 81msec (16384bit)

asciilifeform inclined to reject koch's optimization ( which diana_coman retained ) where witness consists of rng(bitness_of_n - 2) , and actually make witness equal to rng(width) mod (n - 2) for full range

asciilifeform: per the proof, it is seemingly harmless ( a carmichael number has 1/4 of the integers as 'liars' ) but what it does is to prevent simple manual test with small numbers , which is imho quite typically kochian

asciilifeform: one oughta be able to feed any valid, per the theorem, witness, up to n - 2 , and get the expected output.

a111: Logged on 2019-01-14 18:32 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-13#1886533 << this is not only troo but is how one tests a m-r ( you feed it known liars & known troofers for a particular N and verify output )

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu et al : plox to lemme know if ~any~ part of this is unclear, cuz this is rather important moving part

asciilifeform: when we sit the thing down on a microcontroller with mask rom, or some other similar iron, it will be important to be able to spot-check the m-r and determine that for some input known only to you, it actually behaves as m-r.

asciilifeform: this type of test is impossible on systems where m-r eats witness straight from rng, without possibility to override by hand.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it is counterintuitively actually better to test with smaller integers than larger ones.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in that can check result with pen ? or canya think of some other reason..?

mircea_popescu: specifically because density is uniform, if you ~only~ check say 64 bit numbers as witnesses (ie, nothing smaller than 2^63) there's a set of composites < certain limit that'll pass ; whereas if you only check 1-63 bit numbers (so the same ~number~ of numbers) there's a set of composites that'll pass, but they're LARGER than the same limit.

mircea_popescu: much like in the case of usual gcd -- checking a random number for divisibility with 2 provides a much larger benefit (eliminates 50% of candiates) than checking a random number for divisibility with 15,485,863, which only eliminates 0.000% of candidates.

mircea_popescu: which is also why there exists such a thing as m-r witness sets, ie sets of witnesses guaranteed to not be false up to a certain value of candidates

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform right.

asciilifeform: in so far as anyone can tell, it's troo, and then 64bit witnesses suffice for 4096bit candidates. but not only relies on riemann, but dun win anyffin in ffa, where very small and very large number eat same cpu.

asciilifeform: ( would, if riemann were proven, conserve rng bits, tho , could use fewer of'em )

asciilifeform: incidentally, m-r liars seem to be closed under multiplication, but i have not proven.

mircea_popescu: that'd afaik be a useful result.

mircea_popescu: yes.

asciilifeform: potentially could have cryptoism based on such a thing, if it were in fact troo

mircea_popescu: yes, because not readily computable the reverse, "which number are these liars for"

feedbot: http://bingology.net/2019/01/24/terminal-pantsuit-discourse-no-there-is-no-we-in-si-se-puede/ << Bingology - BingoBoingo's Blog -- Terminal Pantsuit Discourse: No, There is No "We" In "Si se puede"

mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "He/She/You can == Puede" << no you belongs there.

mircea_popescu: also it's not Hondoras, it's Honduras

mircea_popescu: nor is there such a thing as Venezuala. did you get your vowels knotted up there ?

mircea_popescu: hanbot bwahaha, THEY GUTTED YOU LIKE A FISH!!!

mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo if they progress to no it also, it'll be quite the gain for the femstate. in the vein of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-18#1888200 of course, which just happens to be a perfect fit for them. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-01-18 17:04 mircea_popescu: but anyway, in the us the strictly only avenue left to the dnc is to "pretend" to "ignore". if they engage they get crushed. the party's already gone as a going concern, for which reason : the only way an imaginary party can continue its imagined hold on worldly things is through "ignoring" them.

BingoBoingo: Well, overnight alt-President invited the US Embassy garrison to remain over Maduro's expulsion order ☟︎

mircea_popescu: haha, which do they do ?

BingoBoingo: Uruguay's official line on the situation so far is "We're fucking Uruguay, this is out of our weight class" though individual politician statements take every possible position.

mircea_popescu: because they found the perfect thing to hang tyhem over, maduro can just arrest them and bye-bye posturing.

BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I imagine they remain so the bombs can fly after Maduro sends the moving trucks

mircea_popescu: 0 bombs fly roflmao, what, so there can be a case of us ambassador hung in bolivar square ?

mircea_popescu: there's no option here : if they stay, maduro arrests them, "hostage situation" doesn't really wash, us stuck spending next 10 years "negotiating" with a maduro it put in a better position than kim ever was. ☟︎

mircea_popescu: if they leave, derpy imaginary president has to explain it. experience shows he WILL, and the "followers" WILL swallow whatever he says.

mircea_popescu: so they leave.

mircea_popescu: granted if they don't leave and maduro doesn't put them in ice, the situation's resolved the other way.

BingoBoingo: Maybe Pence at all saw how well destablilizing the neighorhood works for Israel?

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you ever read http://trilema.com/2012/evolutia-onlinautului/ incidentally ? i suspect i should translate it, precisely explains (in a SEVEN year vintage piece) the problem with eg naggum's efforts, and other fundamental things.

mircea_popescu: i shall trnaslate.

mircea_popescu: thinking about it (since i have to, translation oblige), http://trilema.com/2016/the-chosen/ is probably the one claim to fame of http://btcbase.org/log/2019-01-23#1889542 item. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2019-01-23 02:10 asciilifeform: wonder what happened to subj d00d

asciilifeform: !Q later tell mod6 your rk is successfully redisked and running, see instrs. in #p.

mircea_popescu: in other mildly concerning news, i notice that there's a header-article relation developing. if there's naked girls ima pen a frisky article, if there's a serious doctoral mug ima pen a serios theoretic piece, yet i swear i have no idea at the onset (the box where i put things in dun load the header, for one). it's sheer coincidence, yet it seems to have held for the past 3 or 4 pieces!

a111: Logged on 2019-01-24 15:22 mircea_popescu: there's no option here : if they stay, maduro arrests them, "hostage situation" doesn't really wash, us stuck spending next 10 years "negotiating" with a maduro it put in a better position than kim ever was.

mircea_popescu: just aboot.

BingoBoingo: Wank, but that picture is so good http://archive.is/hG8vN (Yes, pichis sleep sheltered against the major state bank)