tmsr - Log 2016-09-18

jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 602.89, vol: 1164.33753990 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 607.6, vol: 2643.52677 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 608.05, vol: 3571.06537738 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 604.239405, vol: 201769.63330000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 609.679, vol: 325.23130613 | Volume-weighted last average: 604.347722465

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: lulzy electoral massage

asciilifeform: in other lulz, https://archive.is/shLJy >> oh noez, laundry !11111

asciilifeform: 'As preferred customers, they often took Chapo's drugs without putting any money down, then paid the cartel only after they sold the product. This might seem unlikely, given the pervasive distrust in the underworld, but the narcotics trade is based on a robust and surprisingly reliable system of credit. In a sense, a cartel like Sinaloa has no choice but to offer a financing option, because few wholesale buyers have the liquidity to

asciilifeform: pay cash upfront for a ton of cocaine.'

mircea_popescu: no, in a sense of course they offer credit - they don't really want to be buried in bills.

jhvh1: shinohai: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 609.02, vol: 1248.77787529 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 609.815, vol: 3021.26362 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 612.2, vol: 1490.79478268 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 608.667451, vol: 232851.21380000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 612.039, vol: 321.26085504 | Volume-weighted last average: 608.710378274

phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-17#1544461 << i already had it implemented for xref, so just needed to comment out (not (annotation-back-link-mkj-p annotation)) in the right place ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 21:02 framedr_ghetto: phf: thanks for making a111 quote mkj log lines

phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-17#1544485 << it was a knee jerk http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-11#1539368 on my part. i was thinking why not write and use own high level assembly emitter, but thinking about it it would not have improved discoverability, because the task was all or nothing anyway ☝︎☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 21:07 mircea_popescu: phf to answer the "why asm" thing : because if at issue is to obtain a correct f(lisp) so as it produces the same asm as gcc(c) then we'd better have a good example of target "same asm". his approach is judicious.

a111: Logged on 2016-09-11 00:43 mircea_popescu: honestly, i think the people who abstract-and-code are idiots anyway. first, you do it by hand. then, you automate what you did. this way a) end up with something that actually works, and even without much design skill is well designed, by mother nature's help ; b) avoiud the trap of "i spent five engineer hours to save myself thirty three minutes of secretarial work over the course of ten years."

phf: the advantage of something like a vop in general, is that you can emit part of the assembly that you're trying to get working in isolation first, can emit it and call in realtime (i.e. in a repl), can have multiple versions of until you get it right, etc.

phf: (an example is https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/cmucl/cmucl/blob/master/src/compiler/x86/float-sse2.lisp#L1426 x87-set-floating-point-modes prelude with keywords says some handy things about what's being emitted to put it in context, but then (:generator 6 ...) is your regular asm, mov xor ...) ☟︎

phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-17#1544418 << i thought psychosis was pretty common with bipolar, during the manic or depressive phases. at least in usg they prescribe antipsychotics to bipolars, though i'm not sure if that's always the case. supposedly you can take them on their own, because they have mood stabilizing effects ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-09-17 19:51 mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160917/#562 << fwiw there's no psychotic ouverture of bipolar. 1st case mostly sounds as usgistan "let's call it something"/

phf: back when i knew the guy, i had a plan to stay in his house for a couple of weeks, wean him off his meds and depending on how that goes, give him acid to poke at his brain. he had some odd blindspots in his thinking that i wasn't sure if they were result of medication, or inherent. somehow multiple people were all up in arms against my plan, so i will never know..

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-18#1544569 << i've been toying with the notion of 0 compiler ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-09-18 17:27 phf: (an example is https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/cmucl/cmucl/blob/master/src/compiler/x86/float-sse2.lisp#L1426 x87-set-floating-point-modes prelude with keywords says some handy things about what's being emitted to put it in context, but then (:generator 6 ...) is your regular asm, mov xor ...)

asciilifeform: very tight interpreter strictly.

asciilifeform: a la tinyscheme

asciilifeform: nope.

phf: i think main line lua is that way, very tight interpreter, and i guess it's fast enough for gaming (tm)(c)

asciilifeform: jit он от лукавого

asciilifeform: lock up all the x86-aware liquishit in a few 100kb of hand-asmed kernel and never touch again.

asciilifeform: it lives in l0 and no jmp ever goes out of l0 .

asciilifeform: betcha there is even a magic bit in amd docs that'll force no-inst-fetch-out-of-l0.

asciilifeform: phf: jmp but strictly in the interp's state machine.

asciilifeform: on all pages but kernel.

phf: i guess the trickiest part then is the "x86-aware liquishit", which is enough assembly subset to make it useful, but not enough to construct an escape hatch

asciilifeform: dunno, i think i went 'full chuck moore' a decade ago?

asciilifeform: and phf: i think you misunderstand - no 'subset but without escape hatch' or whatnot. just pure interpreter.

asciilifeform: 0 new x86ola emission at runtime.

asciilifeform: disk+nic, nothing else.

asciilifeform: ever.

asciilifeform: i actually considered all of this in '07 but rejected because 'idiots will patch it to do jit and bring back all of the evils'

asciilifeform: but now we have wot. ☟︎

asciilifeform: it is at least theoretically possible to resist.

asciilifeform: and if we can get performance on par with, e.g., my 4mhz bolix 3620 - it's a win. of sorts.

asciilifeform: phf (and any other interested folk) if you have a bit of spare change, buy yourself a 'pcengines api2', either 2 or 4gb model, it's this comp that comes with schematics. then we can play.

asciilifeform: amd g-series with , iirc, gpl schematics.

asciilifeform: it is cheap because 0 video and 0 place to put.

deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2016/09/18/check-your-hope/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Check your hope.

BingoBoingo: Kinda the point. Their meanings can be reinterpreted over a lifetime for those sick folk who need it, because capable of only unhealthy relations with booze et al.

mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160918/#39 << sure. but obviously having both ends helps debug subtle corners and improves your control over the whole matter. ☟︎

a111: Logged on 2016-09-18 17:24 phf: the advantage of something like a vop in general, is that you can emit part of the assembly that you're trying to get working in isolation first, can emit it and call in realtime (i.e. in a repl), can have multiple versions of until you get it right, etc.

scriba: Logged on 2016-09-18: [17:24:27] <phf> the advantage of something like a vop in general, is that you can emit part of the assembly that you're trying to get working in isolation first, can emit it and call in realtime (i.e. in a repl), can have multiple versions of until you get it right, etc.

mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo yeah, and they're not directly wrong, which is both rarte and helpful for this purpose.

mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160918/#42 << the us clinical practice is literally insane. they also diagnose psychosis and prescribe medication in prepubescent individuals. psychosis in such is a strict biological impossibility.

a111: Logged on 2016-09-18 17:51 phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-17#1544418 << i thought psychosis was pretty common with bipolar, during the manic or depressive phases. at least in usg they prescribe antipsychotics to bipolars, though i'm not sure if that's always the case. supposedly you can take them on their own, because they have mood stabilizing effects

scriba: Logged on 2016-09-18: [17:51:09] <phf> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-17#1544418 << i thought psychosis was pretty common with bipolar, during the manic or depressive phases. at least in usg they prescribe antipsychotics to bipolars, though i'm not sure if that's always the case. supposedly you can take them on their own, because they have mood stabilizing effects

mircea_popescu: i don't trust an us educated psychiatrist anymore than i'd trust a shaman orthopedist.

BingoBoingo: Anyways on the bipolar they swing from anti-convulsants to antipsychotic depending on what's trendy that year.

yr: was just expressing my appreciation for your collective work, and would like to provide a small donation for hitting the site up once in a while for my informations

BingoBoingo: 1FundZy7m7b8begbh9haCguKJcAdFopRJ9 << Supports the work of the real bitcoin foundation. But yes many sites.

mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo lol, guy tries to do a nice thing, discovers the size of the republic, ton of birkcs.

mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160918/#44 << ftr, you know relatives/friends are universally "up in arms" against girly's plan to "move to $distantlands to live as sexual slave of this guy". doesn't usually seem to do anything.

scriba: Logged on 2016-09-18: [17:55:52] <phf> back when i knew the guy, i had a plan to stay in his house for a couple of weeks, wean him off his meds and depending on how that goes, give him acid to poke at his brain. he had some odd blindspots in his thinking that i wasn't sure if they were result of medication, or inherent. somehow multiple people were all up in arms against my plan, so i will never

BingoBoingo: yr: Don't worry much. You aren't the first to be shock by just how much is going on here, but so far you are the most polite.

mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160918/#45 << now THIS is certainly a nice idea that the shitty hardware utterly precludes.

scriba: Logged on 2016-09-18: [18:00:04] <asciilifeform> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-18#1544569 << i've been toying with the notion of 0 compiler

mircea_popescu: iirc in the early days of c-as-replacement-for-straight-asm it's exactly how compiler became a thing. "dude... fuck hardware." ☟︎

mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160918/#51 << no it's not. it ~can~ be, which is a whole different thing.

scriba: Logged on 2016-09-18: [18:02:22] <phf> i think main line lua is that way, very tight interpreter, and i guess it's fast enough for gaming (tm)(c)

mircea_popescu: i mean because "don't do this, don't use it there, don't do this way". in any game there are parts you could do in fucking xml. that you write those in lua, or lisp, or anything does not make the anytihng "fast enough for gaming", much like the 14yo doing the parts of "slut" that don't include fucking doesn't make the 14yo "old enough for sex"

mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160918/#73 << there's a fine steel hatch to lock that down with now ; so you can transition to not doing it because x86 sux.

scriba: Logged on 2016-09-18: [18:14:14] <asciilifeform> i actually considered all of this in '07 but rejected because 'idiots will patch it to do jit and bring back all of the evils'

mircea_popescu: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20160918/#77 << with the time, being the main qualifier. if you have the time and willing to promise commitment thereof but can't afford, whine and someone will surely gift you it.

scriba: Logged on 2016-09-18: [18:22:30] <asciilifeform> phf (and any other interested folk) if you have a bit of spare change, buy yourself a 'pcengines api2', either 2 or 4gb model, it's this comp that comes with schematics. then we can play.

phf: oh i thought they use lua for mainloops, but actually i'm not sure. it might just be all scripting. one "fast" lua project that i know, which is luke gorrie's "snabb switch", uses luajit though

a111: Logged on 2016-04-01 20:37 phf: trinque: rsync, tmux, asdf, really nothing smarter than that

phf: yes, scp, screen, asdf. i had a v based deployment but i wasn't happy with it, so i'm trying to rethink it ☟︎

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-18#1544650 << consider reading thread again ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-09-18 21:40 mircea_popescu: iirc in the early days of c-as-replacement-for-straight-asm it's exactly how compiler became a thing. "dude... fuck hardware."

asciilifeform: it wasn't re 'let's program in x86 asm' , lol

asciilifeform: it was re 'let's keep tinyscheme-like thing in l0 and no other x86 progs anywhere'

phf: ben_vulpes: actually right now i'm heathen-ing it, by using quicklisp too. problem is btcbase depends on 35 different projects (like hunchentoot pulls 8 deps, cl-irc 2, etc.) so cmucl version i had all 35 hand patched to various degrees. the right way seems to be giving all those project the v treatment: pull them in, strip them of fluff, genesis, etc.

phf: so my v based deployment had a hack, vpatch by diff artifact has a prelude section, that you can put whatever in. it's basically space before the first --- line

mircea_popescu: phf maybe im just behind the times. for all i know they use javascript internally all over blizzard now, whatevs.

phf: so i use it to put a patch description, but if the section has ^L\n( or ^L\n; then i just execute everything between ^L and diff ... after the patch has been applied

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, i understand the dream. just pointing out that it didn't work once before.

phf: so the vpatch becomes something like "getting baz to work^L(load "foo") (load "bar") diff ... foo.lisp ... +... -... etc diff bar.lisp ... +... -..."

mircea_popescu: phf no point in being too ashamed of the early pubescence of the republic. if that's the best that can be done then that's the best that can be done, others may be able to improve on it which is welcome, but there's complete immunity from the very hollow somethingawful approach of "your tobacco uses pot lol". nobody cares, really, what something awful may say or think on any topic, chiefly because they're fundamentally idiots.

phf: but obviously it doesn't have to be just load, can also be code that does a mutation on state or whatever

mircea_popescu: so you know, there's no benefit to be acrued through hiding hacks from view.

phf: anyway, i should probably write the first version up, while it's a lul between attempts

yr: well, I'm going to lurk for a while -- is there another way to flag you down besides pm?

a111: Logged on 2016-09-16 19:47 pete_dushenski: 'I was dead-set on finding a house with a garbage disposal, or "garburator" as our sorry ("Sorry!") neighbors to the North call them,' << l0l! love the souble dorry. also, i've never lived in a house or condo with a garburator and may never.

BingoBoingo: yr: Register a key, flagg me down when you do, collect a rating, and learn to voice yourself?

phf: also sop is to ask for a pm from anyone who's speaking (i.e. awake and at keyboard) at the moment

BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> "the logic of steel" wtf is he about ? << Early book of his.

BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> lafond never heard how caesar died or what. << Historicaly common, but was uncommon among the fauna local to him historicaly.

mircea_popescu: still, even thinking about it, both dagger and knife are insane weapons for the lone operator. unless with a group of friends, preferably sons of the people running the city as seein in italian renaissance for example, you're asking to be killed.

mircea_popescu: armed enough to be murdered for it ; not armed enough to keep angry mob at bay. ☟︎

BingoBoingo: Nah, because tradition. However do add responses for !~tradition1, etc. Also add a reply for the seekrit 13th step.

jhvh1: 5. Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

mircea_popescu: i mean again as in you should have started with that ; and i'm giving you the benefit of the doubt pretending like you did and i didn't notice.