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asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i turned up empty in search for occasion where oxford fired the cannons
asciilifeform: did it happen ?
mircea_popescu: really ? "siege of oxford" ?
asciilifeform: hm
asciilifeform: that'd be the city, not the university per se, neh
mircea_popescu: see also baron's war, etc.
asciilifeform: 'strategic hamlet'(tm)(r)(kissinger)
mircea_popescu: well the fortification is where it is.
mircea_popescu: anyway, christchurch bought ye olde castle 16th century.
asciilifeform: fair'nuff. tho i was hoping to turn up a neal-stephonson-esque ( he was rather fond of the idea, in his http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-29#1760798 ) scene where the logicians opened up on the unwashed ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-29 16:21 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/NwUJd/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: well, it was the royalist capital in the civil war.
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: was your idea king's camp should exclude king ?
asciilifeform: dunno that charles v fits the shoe of 'idea king'
mircea_popescu: why not ? war between "science" parliament and "idea" king.
asciilifeform: dunno if this owl stretches over this given globe. what 'science' , what 'idea'. afaik was old-gentry vs new-money pissing match.
mircea_popescu: not like i'm saying it muyst fit ; or that i expect or i expect anyone expects history to be a neat didactic work for the benefit of future livers.
asciilifeform: it verily doesn't, in this item
mircea_popescu: i don't get how the necessary situation whereby conflict will follow age gap somehow changes what the conflict is about.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how wouldja describe what it was about ?
mircea_popescu: charles was of the idea that he has the authority to rule as a thing of his own ; the unitarians were of the idea that "supreme executive power exudes from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony"
mircea_popescu: derps wander in here all the time, "were's mp's mandate-from-the-people" ? seems it's enough of a divide to divide even today.
mircea_popescu: what'd constitute a proper idea in your eyes ?
asciilifeform: diff is that mircea_popescu has with what to make his objection stick; old man charles did not
mircea_popescu: so in this sense charles is deposed and mp is not deposed. does this change anything ?
mircea_popescu: the biathlonists who fail are not thereby horse jockeys.
mircea_popescu: they're still biathlonists, if failed ones.
asciilifeform can see it
mircea_popescu: yes, THE NAME very much http://trilema.com/2018/wood-impregnated-in-oil-a-metaphor/#comment-126055 ; but ~THE TITLE~ ?
mircea_popescu: seems enough of an idea to me, if need be.
asciilifeform: it was clealy enuff of an idea that there was pretty close match, militarily
PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-10#1849239 << cement hardens by simple chemical reaction incorporating O2 and/or H2O into the CaO lattice, connecting particles to make inorganic superstructural polymer matrix ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-10 16:53 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: by the 'to your eyes' standard -- i dun think i own any artifacts that work to any other standard. even cement block -- we do not presently know precisely why cement hardens.
mircea_popescu: PeterL yes but this is the end state not the process
mircea_popescu: cement ~= first and best inorganic polymer is afaik not disputed
asciilifeform: PeterL: i can describe in roughly similar terms what the molybdenum does in modern steel. but not why needs such-and-such % , for different machineabilities.
PeterL: process, you mean like how the oxygens migrate through the mixture?
mircea_popescu: consider the case of paracetamol. "it takes body to cooler end state". yes, it does. how ?
mircea_popescu: to take a practical tack : why is CaO matrix and SrAl2O4 matrix for strontium cement ?
PeterL: biochemistry, mumble mumble, binding to receptors causing chain reaction cascade of molecular processes, er, sumthin
mircea_popescu: can you somehow predict this'd be the end result ?
mircea_popescu: "i have this inorganic polymerization model which permits me to predict the behaviour of calcium-based matrices and also predicts that should you replace the calcium with strontium, the oxigen content cvadruples ans there's need for an item extra in there that's just like aluminum for so and so reasons" ☟︎
mircea_popescu: otherwise yes, we've both noticed (and for a long time!) that sunsets and sunrises color the sky. took a WHILE to explain the fucking why.
PeterL: well, I am not materials science expert, but those who study the subject should be able to explain "if I add a bit more of $element, the properties of the material will go $direction"
mircea_popescu: i agree, the people who study subjects should be able to answer questions in subjects.
mircea_popescu: the bitch is -- they aren't able to answer all questions.
PeterL: sorry if I misunderstood, but it sounded like asciilifeform was saying that questions like this are not answerable by anybody
mircea_popescu: well no, i'm sure it's there, just, i also don't currently know exactly how it works. though in my case could be for lack of caring, i haven't been doing any building in 15 years +
PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-02-28#1786498 << btw, did you ever get that gpg replacement you were looking for? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-02-28 15:57 mircea_popescu: ave1 you should ; also read through the eucrypt thing, ima (for instance) need someone to package it into a cmd line gpg replacement as soon as next wek.
mircea_popescu: not afaik
mircea_popescu: inexplicably enough, SIX months later that imminent need's still not burning my ass. nfi.
PeterL: so the thing you want, would it replicate all of gpg functionality (making them compatible), or would a separate, simpler thing be good (just does encryp/decrypt and sign/verify using rsa)?
mircea_popescu: if it does sign, verify, encrypt and decrypt i'm happy.
mircea_popescu: heck, if it only does verify and encrypt i'm happy.
asciilifeform: PeterL: i dun think i ever once said 'not answerable', lol
asciilifeform: simply that the answer contains constants that were derived empirically.
asciilifeform: incidentally much noise was made re the elaborate calculations of early nukes, but good chunk of the design params ~also~ only were accessible empirically. hence the slotin incident. ☟︎
asciilifeform: ( errybody makes fun of the d00d, even speak of 'darwin award', but there was not really alternative to what he was doing, the $maxint robotic manipulators were built ~later~, after corpses were cold )
asciilifeform: !#s slotin
a111: 10 results for "slotin", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=slotin
asciilifeform: a good % of what goes into modern tech is derived in precisely this way.
asciilifeform: even (horror) the analogue end of FG.
asciilifeform: to an 'aristotelian', i imagine even what passes for sane engineering, is repulsive, because of this.
asciilifeform: ( oblig http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-21#1587313 ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-21 18:48 asciilifeform: 'aristotle: your postulates are just as circular!' 'asciilifeform: i made a working diode from things i dug up' 'aristotle: you just got lucky'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re paracetamol << lulzily, asciilifeform's 1st paying jerb was in a lab where studied inflammatory cascades. and legend had it that in very same room paracetamol was (by entirely unrelated folx, long ago) 1st tested .
asciilifeform: the experience thoroughly cured asciilifeform of wanting anyffing to do with the field -- meat offers very little in the way of 'unifying theories'.
asciilifeform: ( re legend, i have nfi if true, iirc several countries claimed priority )
asciilifeform: ( funnily enuff, asciilifeform later ended up returning to meat, for some yrs, but thats another story )
asciilifeform: at least in cement, the empirical fits in a constant. in meat work, it's a wall-sized (and necessarily incomplete) chart of bleargh.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nobody asked him to fuck with be sphere with screwdriver
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in the sense of 'couldve looked for honest work!' ?
asciilifeform: iguess
mircea_popescu: no dude, in the sense of could have backup on
mircea_popescu: nobody asks moron sysadmin to work with rm -y as default either
mircea_popescu: yes sysadmin work needed. no, playing by seat of pants not necessary.
mircea_popescu: i don't as much as fuck girls without backup, stottin' had to handle radionuclide resonant chamber. gimme break.
asciilifeform: eh this was back when chemists tasted their output
asciilifeform: life cheap.
mircea_popescu: yes well.
asciilifeform: modern folx err in the other dir
asciilifeform: 'cant do anyffing without $5mil robot and mother holding hand'
mircea_popescu: i'm not even sure it's on the same line. modern folkx err through absence.
asciilifeform: mainly yes
asciilifeform: but i've met folx who wont even lick a 9v.
mircea_popescu: but in other news, two moon junction epic film. imagine, two years later, i go to read http://trilema.com/2016/two-moon-junction/#selection-49.33-53.89 see wtf i said, i discover i did EXACTLY same thing!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: seems like lotsa rewatchings lately ?
asciilifeform: new watchables ran out ?
asciilifeform: ( i can easily believe )
mircea_popescu: yeah. for one thing i ran out of films ; and for the other as i said, i made a server, checking out what i got on it.
asciilifeform: aaa
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/three-rivers-approximately/ << Trilema - Three rivers. Approximately.
mircea_popescu: "I feel now that it is ridiculous to make accusations against the Jews, attributing them qualities and methods which are really much more typically English than Jewish"
mircea_popescu: in other lulz : oscar wilde's prison wailings (renamed "de profundis" by some buttfriend or other), uninteresting and unimportant as they may be, nevertheless were published in a bowdlerized version cca 1905, and in a proper version in 1960. THIS version is out of copyright in the world (which pointedly excludes the us) ; now go find it somewhere on teh http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-10#1849092 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-10 15:27 mircea_popescu: but i seriously do not see the need for a "web" to support this nonsense. they'd be much better served by a single pravda.
mircea_popescu: let's look at the matter : the actual manuscript has been maintained online by the british museum for half a decade by now. more. out of all these "creative" kanzures, exactly ZERO actually transcribed it and published on their own fucking worthless "online presence". ☟︎
mircea_popescu: not even the lowliest of the lowliest fruit shall be picked up, year after year after year AFTER YEAR.
mircea_popescu: nothing but neet-ing about and "do we still have to DO this" bla bla bla "the conversation" nonsense & sheer idiocy. nothing but. NOTHING BUT!
mircea_popescu: how the fuck can there exist so-and-so billion "people" and zero work comes out of them year in, year out ? what is this ?
mircea_popescu: what, i'm going to commission the transcription myself ? so what, imbeciles a la http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-04#1809349 can continue to pretendf like ANYTHING WHATSOEVER the fuck else exists ?! ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-04 17:15 zx2c4: mircea_popescu: oh. so. "the world doesnt care about the cool hackers on the internet, but only the assholes with prestigious positions." this has been a widely known complaint for a long time
mircea_popescu: i don't even fucking like wilde!
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in ancient trilemas, http://trilema.com/2011/planeta-pizdutelor/#comment-71237 << diana_coman recommends Cordwainer Smith (aka Linebarger) & a certain Vance as literate sf. anyone read these ?
asciilifeform read linebarger
asciilifeform: d00d was an interesting fella.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman /me also answered the ancient debate meanwhile!
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2011/dialogurile-sclavelor-pe-marginea-lumii-lu-gor/ << meanwhile in unexpected english text from before the great switch.
diana_coman: I think it's one of those where we take one another's eyes out for half a day, at the end of which it turns out we actually agreed on the main point all along
mircea_popescu: engineers debating!
diana_coman: anyway, to the point: I still find Linebarger interesting, perhaps for the exact reason that I can't yet actually place him fully anywhere
mircea_popescu: oh oh the atomsk guy!
mircea_popescu: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/88/Fantasy_book_1950_n6.jpg/330px-Fantasy_book_1950_n6.jpg << amusingly, EXACT pulp, as far as form is concerned.
diana_coman: the venue for sure
mircea_popescu: let's compare and contrast 1960s cheap illustrations : the neo-post-impressionist school ( https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/de/Galaxy_196210.jpg ) with the early-computerist-aesthetic (itself almost indistinguishable from "the votive america flying over some telegraph poles, drawn by qualified industrial draughtsman") : https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/90/Amazing_stories_196310.jpg
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, here's a guy dead of ~heart attack~.
asciilifeform: ACHTUNG all pizarro rockchip customers ! if you modified your /etc/conf.d/net , in recent 2 weeks, plz say ! asciilifeform currently suspects that somebody munged theirs, and it may account for diana_coman's unreachable box, we may have to take the pilot plant down for maintenance and manually dig, if nobody says anyffing
mircea_popescu: o.O
mircea_popescu: a) i am willing to bet you're the last one to have touched such. ; b) people can actually fuck up other's boxes' routing ?!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i test'em before handing over to mod6 . ☟︎
asciilifeform: and unfortunately it is the case that ips are static, and set in box, and accessible by user, this was in the log when the plant went online.
mircea_popescu: so you're telling me douchebag could have taken out your entire plant if he had a clue ?
mircea_popescu: hanbot : " spacecraft, which are crewed by humans telepathically linked with cats to defend against the attacks of malevolent entities in space, which are perceived by the humans as dragons, and by the cats as gigantic rats".
mircea_popescu: "Meeya Meefla", the only city to have preserved its name from the pre-atomic era: evidently Miami, Florida << aaahahaha! this is carrying on. where do all the orcs wanna go ? to meeya meefla, the city of moafle.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i warned of this in the first days ( currently digging in log re exact line )
asciilifeform: i do not currently know of any practical means to entirely isolate the boxes on the lan.
mircea_popescu: nevermind entirely isolate ; why are they publishing their own routes ?
asciilifeform: routes have 0 to do with it
asciilifeform: recall how static ip works
asciilifeform: there is not a 'smart' switch in the rack, all packets travel down all wires.
mircea_popescu: i guess i'm not understranding the problem. how can box a make box b unreachable ?
asciilifeform: by sitting down on top of its ip.
mircea_popescu: this can only mean "by advertising that route" to me. what the fuck ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-11#1833633 << 1 occasion where this happened. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-07-11 22:41 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo plox to sit down on somewhere other than dulap ip.
mircea_popescu: what is "sit down" mean, specifically.
asciilifeform: when you set static ip in box, it starts answering packets addressed there, elementarily.
mircea_popescu: and so what if it does ?
asciilifeform: you get nonsense on the other end.
asciilifeform: rather like 2 people sitting on 1 telephone wire.
mircea_popescu: so to understand this : box x talks to box y. box y is ambiguously defined, both box a and b send ack in response, box x can not proceed connecting ?
asciilifeform: correct
mircea_popescu: isn't this a ~1940s problem solved by ROUTES ?
mircea_popescu: whereby your switch does not forward packets coming from the wrong a ?
asciilifeform: this requires 'smart' switch, where individual jacks are addressible
mircea_popescu: you're telling me you have some magical lan whereby the boxes aren't distinguished ?
asciilifeform: they're distinguished by mac ( which incidentally a malicious user could easily reset to be whatever he wants ) so the problem is only solvable in the general case by a router which operates jacks individually
mircea_popescu: both the words "switch" and "router" actually originate from a time after this problem being resolved ;/ the switch will switch, and the router will route. you got a ... multiplexer ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is only 'resolved' in the sense you are contemplating, on juniper and similar.
asciilifeform: $50-100k usg.box.
mircea_popescu: a large portion of why people are stuck paying that $$$ ; and i guess pizarro will too ?
asciilifeform: nope, current pizarro policy is that users are to refrain from interfering with others.
mircea_popescu: and you ~still~ don't see either the utility or the possibility of having a box do switching ?
asciilifeform: i definitely see .
mircea_popescu: aite
mircea_popescu: at the very least you could have a listener attached, report to you cases of double-ack
asciilifeform: theoretically yes
asciilifeform: this is in the research conveyor
asciilifeform: it won't reveal mac diddlers tho
mircea_popescu: but btw, a) still stands. i judge the odds of some user even touching conf.d ~0 and the odds of your having accidentally used the wrong values during a resetting ~100%.
asciilifeform: on the most recent occasion when i re-imaged rk ( actually 2 of'em ) i tested all 6.
asciilifeform: but we'll find out the answer today.
mircea_popescu: and of course this stands for whole space ? one could eg make foundation box inaccessible by renting rk ?
asciilifeform: currently yes
asciilifeform: l1 folx who do this, will be publicly shamed. new customer -- booted.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if you know how to perma-fix this with a box that doesn't cost 50k or take up an entire rack (i.e. x86 box with 9000 nics) i'm all ears.
mircea_popescu: let me get this straight : if me and you have a rk, and you run your blog from there, and i overload your ip but only use port x which you do not use a) you'll never know and b) i have two ips now.
mircea_popescu is currently thinking this should be turned into a feature.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-18#1801533 << orig thread ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-18 04:53 ben_vulpes: douchebag: pizarro board has serious reservations about your fucking up our honorsystem ip routing table and bringing dos/whatever hell down upon our little gated community, can i extract a commitment from you to not misbehave in my cab?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: right nao anybody can sit down on as many ips as he wants, or munge and retransmit , or pretty much any conceivable mischief.
asciilifeform: because there is, in effect, 1 shared wire.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-18#1801952 << whole thrd ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-04-18 11:42 ascii_lander: the only sensible policy is to proclaim, ahead of time, that any customer found monkeying with the lan , will be banished, with no refunds and no recourse;
mircea_popescu: so basically what's the idea here, "do not edit /etc/conf.d/net without checking with #pizarro" ?
asciilifeform: aha. as explicitly proclaimed.
mircea_popescu: anywhere a customer'd know ? such as a comment in the file itself ? such as on sales pagE ?
asciilifeform: http://pizarroisp.net/pizarro-good-neighbor-policy/
asciilifeform: written after 1st time we had this thread.
asciilifeform: as the iron currently stands, it is a hostel, not hotel, and folx must refrain from shitting in one another's beds.
asciilifeform: the rk's are on own physical switch, so if one of them pulls the lan to ground, it will take out only rk cluster. but that's the only isolation available.
mircea_popescu: do me a favour and add #Do not change this if you're not entirely sure ; talk in #pizarro to make sure ; messing up the routing will cost you your reputation.
mircea_popescu: or something
asciilifeform: i'ma add it to the template, it will go on all new/reimaged boxen.
mircea_popescu: cool.
asciilifeform brb, tea
mircea_popescu: anywway, to get back to the literature discussion : this http://www.gutenberg.org/files/29614/29614-h/29614-h.htm item is as fine an example of a principal cause of my distate for the stuff -- a certain pompieristic approach to engineering.
mircea_popescu: so suppose as the premise that (all) people hallucinate "dragons" in so-and-so circumstances. there's nothing wrong with this whatsoever. all literature requires a premise ; the premise will be some thing not commonly seen. that's how it works, that's how it's supposed to work, it's not the fucking police blotter or an actuarial table, it's a story. no argument.
mircea_popescu: necessarily, in order for literature to even exist, there must be a counter to this. an exception, a qualifying circumstance, what have you. say it is that class y doesn't share the property of class x. whether this is going over (people, yes, but CATS no) or going in (people, yes, except blonde virgin females with labia minora extending past and outside labia majora) it matters not.
mircea_popescu: HOWEVER! the degree and type and quality of that going, in or over irrespective, then sets the tone for the whole piece. necessarily and without possibility of escape.
mircea_popescu: because the space of possibilities constrains, very much like http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-20#1687609 ; once the quality of your going is "not people -- but cats" you're stuck writing a whimsical tale for 9 year old girls. because there, and there only, is the classification so gross as to go "people... cats..." ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-20 19:45 mircea_popescu: there is major difference between competition in software and competition in (any kind of) hardware. very narrow protein spaces in biofilms.
mircea_popescu: IF you aim to write "science-" anything, you must therefore show finer understanding of the available categorization trees than "oh, people see dragons but cats see rats".
mircea_popescu: but if instead you proceed to pile on "man-cat-head-intermingler" on top of the nonsense world made of people and cats and a chair, the result is not unlike the bridge that jack built : first it was a hovel, then it got a latrine boolted to the side and now somebody put a length of train track sorta sideways and calls it "a tunnel".
mircea_popescu: in short, stories work by fusing portions of reality not currently seen fused ; making out relationships where no relationship ordinarily exists. that's what a story is, always. but if the story aims to connect items that can not be connected, because they for some preexisting cause necessarily can't be found in the same place at the same time, or because they're categorically different kinds of items, or for any other reason
mircea_popescu: , the "story" attempting the fusing blindly becomes "pulp fiction" in literature, or "conspiracy theory" in the common course of storytelling (yes, that's what people do when they talk -- they tell stories).
mircea_popescu: whereas if it's particularly good quality, exposing an ACTUAL connection not before observed for fault of observation, that story actually becomes outright science.
mircea_popescu: thus therefore, i expect "science fiction" to be EXACTLY science that very well could have been, but happens to isn't ; not conspiracy theorism.
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-11#1849451 << asciilifeform handed them over to me to test they had been reset, and one could login via a temp password. This was done to douchebag's and mats' old rockchips. They both worked great after reset. I never touched the /etc/conf.d/net file. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-11 14:39 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i test'em before handing over to mod6 .
mod6: As far as my rockchip, it was mistakenly unplugged, and never worked after that.
mircea_popescu: (for completeness, the other cause of my distaste is very poor mastery of the formal aspects of the craft, like in gor fragment linked or all of literotica or everything david mamet ever wrote. just BAD , especially dialogue, but overall this impression that a lame and blind guy's fighting for his life in wordmud)
mircea_popescu: mod6 been a long time ?
mod6: And further, I never touched my /etc/conf.d/net file either.
mod6: I had been using my rockchip all the time.
mod6: I can't say for mats' or douchebags, but I can attest that after they were reset, that I could log in successfully to each at least 1 time.
mircea_popescu: no i mean, your own not working
mod6: It's been about 8 or 9 days since it lost power.
lobbes: ftr, this was the -exact- issue I was having (403 errors on www, no ssh, but could ping fine. Whatever BingoBoingo did for me then worked like a charm though.) http://logs.bvulpes.com/pizarro?d=2018-9-11#427159 << >> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-31#1846123 ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-08-31 13:15 lobbes: so I have a question for the more experienced server operators out there: As of yesterday I found that I can no longer ssh into my rockchip (eggog: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/PKeSK/?raw=true)
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-09-11 09:31 diana_coman: good morning; I can't seem to be able to connect to my rockchip anymore: http (ossasepia.com) gives 403 You don't have permission to access / on this server ; ssh refuses connection too; there was NO change as far as I know - I haven't touched it in quite a while and last time I connected everything worked fine; any idea what might be wrong there, BingoBoingo ?
lobbes: I can also confirm I have not touched my /etc/conf.d
lobbes: */etc/conf.d/net I mean
mircea_popescu: * Trying connected
mircea_popescu: * Connected to ossasepia.com ( port 80 (#0)
mircea_popescu: > GET / HTTP/1.1
mircea_popescu: ^ it's strictly impossible for the problem asciilifeform to be involved, seeing how i actually do handshake.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform described*
asciilifeform: back
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we do not currently know, but BingoBoingo is in the cage as we speak with the uart probe.
mircea_popescu: k
asciilifeform: ( #p will have realtime progress )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-11#1849540 << what exactly was this ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-11 15:37 lobbes: ftr, this was the -exact- issue I was having (403 errors on www, no ssh, but could ping fine. Whatever BingoBoingo did for me then worked like a charm though.) http://logs.bvulpes.com/pizarro?d=2018-9-11#427159 << >> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-08-31#1846123
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-09-11 09:31 diana_coman: good morning; I can't seem to be able to connect to my rockchip anymore: http (ossasepia.com) gives 403 You don't have permission to access / on this server ; ssh refuses connection too; there was NO change as far as I know - I haven't touched it in quite a while and last time I connected everything worked fine; any idea what might be wrong there, BingoBoingo ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: What worked for that was a power cycle, but...
asciilifeform: this is pretty alarming
mircea_popescu: lol did you contribute a few boxes to the internet's efforts to spam itslef ?
asciilifeform: i'd luvv to get an 0day out of this story, but i suspect culprit is more boring
mircea_popescu: "Where would he ever find a woman who could compare with her?" dawg, check it! out and out fury-ism!
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/rkuart.jpg << for fyootoor ref
asciilifeform: !Q later tell diana_coman didja rebuild your rk kernel with no xhci ( usb3 ) ?
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, no; and moreover as previously stated in between "it works" and "it doesn't work" I did not even connect to it!
lobbesbot: diana_coman: Sent just now: <asciilifeform> didja rebuild your rk kernel with no xhci ( usb3 ) ?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: yes i know
asciilifeform: i gotta ask
asciilifeform: diana_coman: currently looks like you have a dying ssd
diana_coman: o.O
diana_coman: that was ...quick
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, I can see the issues you raise, they are standing.
asciilifeform: http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/rk_e_sads.txt
asciilifeform: ^ uart
asciilifeform: [ 9.105595] blk_update_request: I/O error, dev sda, sector 33827664 << consistently across boots
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i'ma ask BingoBoingo to plug this disk into one of your other boxes (plox to choose which one) so you can recover any state you had not a chance to back up; meanwhile you will be issued a spare .
asciilifeform: ( there are two spares on hand, for this event )
asciilifeform: next we will probe mod6's box
asciilifeform: now you folx know what 'pilot plant' means !
asciilifeform: and why asciilifeform did not hurry to buy 9000 of these drives
diana_coman: technically speaking I don't own any other box - they are leased by smg rather than by me and I'm not very keen on mixing the stuff tbh; I'll check the backups to see if there's anything worth the trouble still lost
asciilifeform: diana_coman: this is strictly optional
diana_coman: the lifetime of this drive though seems veeery short, so I need to decide on wtf ☟︎
diana_coman: asciilifeform, can the disk be connected to the working rockchip itself so I rummage there? atm it seems it's only the very latest comments that'd be lost so I'm in 2 minds about it anyway
asciilifeform: diana_coman: plz pop into #p & watch for updates, we are in the process of eliminating other potential culprits
diana_coman: asciilifeform, ok
asciilifeform: one of the 'dead' sticks seems to read entirely ok in dulap
diana_coman: oh, hm
asciilifeform: ( which is usb2 only ) so i currently suspect dirty or underforced connections
asciilifeform: diana_coman: can you ssh to your rk nao ?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: plz give ( or not ) permission to modify your rk filesystem to enable uart console ( /etc/inittab )
asciilifeform: we've discovered some pretty odd things
asciilifeform: the sad boxen boot if stick is moved to usb2 jack. i currently suspect loose or contaminated contacts in usb3 ( it has additional pins towards the back )
asciilifeform: however, diana_coman's unit boots, and initializes ssh , etc , but doesn't appear to actually listen on the port
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-11#1849583 << it has smart data, doesn't it ? read it. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-11 16:56 diana_coman: the lifetime of this drive though seems veeery short, so I need to decide on wtf
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sticks dun have smart ( at least any i've seen )
mircea_popescu: for ssds especially is most illustrative (pro tip : it is not popssible to get bad sectors while drive not worn out (ie spares still exist) ; if drive worn out why was it in) etc
asciilifeform: but currently i suspect it aint the stick, watch #p for updates
mircea_popescu: wait, these are the stick-for-hdd items ?
asciilifeform: yes !
asciilifeform: as described in agonizing detail in log and photo
asciilifeform: anyway currently seems like the 'dead' sticks aint dead
asciilifeform: the boxen boot without eggog when they're installed in usb2 jack
mircea_popescu: yeah, i r forgot.
mircea_popescu: aanyways.
asciilifeform: something moar peculiar is at work, we're to find what it is .
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in other news nobody cares about, ro "musama" is not, as i had thought, commie-era invention to describe early plastics (in early application, vinyl table cloth) like "bakelite", but ancient tk word for waxcloth (müsemma). all neologisms are turkish in origin!!1
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: do you know tr ?
mircea_popescu: very vaguely.
asciilifeform: asciilifeform went on a tr kick recently, and turns out it's ridiculously simple , after all is a conlang
mircea_popescu: yes.
asciilifeform: ( they had their oddball revolution and junked their classical one )
mircea_popescu: it's like "do oyu know neogreek" "who the fuck ever would ?!"
mircea_popescu: classical tk, in the sense of sublime porte tk, is mostly a case of "do you know all the relevant poetry"
asciilifeform: i only even thought to ask because mircea_popescu wrote about hanging out in stambul erry chance he got
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ja but they wrote their poems in persian
mircea_popescu: imo it's the better euro town. not to disparage vienna
mircea_popescu: but certainly to disparage london & paris.
mircea_popescu: i suppose in the end a very rosettian view.
asciilifeform: i admit i kinda like tr, the martian grammar is appealing
asciilifeform: ( agglutinative thing , completely incompat with indoeuro and even semit structure )
asciilifeform: rather like kazah, but without the puddle of oddball tenses
mircea_popescu: very federative mindset, the turks.
mircea_popescu: all "conquered peoples" must be let do as they will, all syllabic agglomeration must be permitted to sit undisturbed, millet all the way
asciilifeform: i do not currently know out of what ataturk & co. sewed together current-tr
mircea_popescu: process not so similar to the invention of "modern russian".
asciilifeform: not really
asciilifeform: lunacharsky (lenin's 'culture' vizier) just snipped off coupla unphonemic letters from alphabet
asciilifeform: ( as peter previously did )
asciilifeform: there was not a 'neo greek'-style process.
asciilifeform routinely reads pre-1917 texts, they're stylistically unremarkable , simply got 3 'extra' glyphs
asciilifeform: sorta funny , in 1990s ru various 'monarchist'-style folx went around trying to put'em back ~in~ . but naturally did not know the proper rules for their use, ended up with somewhat comical output
asciilifeform: compared to what, e.g., mao, did to ~his~ lang -- very small diff.
asciilifeform: re turks, supposedly 80+% of ottoman-era dictionary consisted of persisms/arabisms.
asciilifeform: which got nailed in their rev.
asciilifeform: so they ended up liek greeks.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform as i say, not so similar.
asciilifeform: lol i think i missed the 'not'
asciilifeform: so yea
asciilifeform: iirc the greeks in their turn were trying to ditch the turkisms
asciilifeform: but asciilifeform doesn't know enuff to say
diana_coman: asciilifeform, oh hey, I CAN ssh into my rockchip apparently
asciilifeform: diana_coman: that's pretty odd, i could not get it to tcp on 22
asciilifeform: diana_coman: do you see anyffing peculiar in the logs ?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: we temporarily powered up your unit with the drive on usb2 bus
mircea_popescu: there's this weird period in the 19th and 20th century wherein the application of "that there was a limit where the flaunting of their foul acts and opinions before the world must stop" was that "if you agree the world's in summary ourdemocracy, you may continue to try and implement your boyish nonsense in particular, short ranged versions"
asciilifeform: diana_coman: this produced an apparently normal (uartwise) boot
mircea_popescu: hence "nationalism" as a concept -- aims to be the answer to "what boy society could exist in female world ???"
diana_coman: asciilifeform, eh, my ssh is not on 22
mircea_popescu: and in this context, all sorts of "improvements"
asciilifeform: aaaaaaaa
asciilifeform: diana_coman: that'd explain
asciilifeform: ( and smart )
diana_coman goes to look into logs
asciilifeform: diana_coman: see if you can find why your apache fell down
asciilifeform: diana_coman: and if anything in /var/log/messages loox strange.
mircea_popescu: apache ~will~ fall down now and again, usually through oom.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i haven't used apache in yrs, so cannot say yes/no
asciilifeform: of nginx (such as it is) i get infinite uptime ( never yet seen it fall spontaneously )
asciilifeform: however diana_coman's did not come to life on boot, so i suspect a config oddity
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo is as we speak out in the shops fetching contact cleaner and freon.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I did not set apache to start on boot, no; that much I'm not surprised at
asciilifeform: another puzzle solved !
diana_coman: I'm so fed up with "resets" that if my machine resets, I'd rather know+have a look at it then have everything restart
mircea_popescu: 148 days 13 hours 4 minutes 56 seconds on trilema box.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: this is not bad approach ( tho i still have my boxen set to come to life on boot, as sometimes i am away from console for entire day )
asciilifeform: ( on other hand i have logs saving to external box -- and displayed -- in real time )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: plox to lemme know if you find any clue re why the machine fell.
diana_coman: will do
asciilifeform: or any item whatsoever out of the ordinary
asciilifeform: diana_coman: one other q -- which kernel are you presently using ?
diana_coman: asciilifeform, on rockchip as it was, I didn't fiddle with its kernel
asciilifeform: ( kernel lives on sd card, mounted as /boot )
asciilifeform: ok
asciilifeform: canhaz uname -a plox ?
diana_coman: asciilifeform: Linux ossasepia 4.4.114asciilifeform #3 SMP Wed Apr 11 03:53:21 -00 2018 aarch64 GNU/Linux
asciilifeform: danke schon diana_coman
diana_coman: you know, it'd be funny if it turned out it is some usb3 shit, just in case there wasn't enough reason to get rid of it
BingoBoingo: At this point the question is physical usb3 shit or software usb3 shit
asciilifeform: update : eliminated august kernel as possible cause
asciilifeform: ( there appear to be four affected units, incl. diana_coman's )
asciilifeform: vacant unit 'A' behaves same as diana_coman's , and exactly same after april kernel re-emplaced there
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in freenode idiocy, i give you http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Baprj/?raw=true aka "how to ping out for being idle 4 minutes while exchanging data the very second prior"
asciilifeform: diana_coman: we found the culprit, will report here shortly
asciilifeform: diana_coman: meanwhile i'ma have to issue diana_coman and mod6 with spare sticks after all, so diana_coman plox to give signal when ok to power down your unit
asciilifeform: i'ma bitwise rescue your contents onto virgin
asciilifeform: we will purchase new drives asap
diana_coman: asciilifeform, ah, ok; I haven't really found anything useful in logs so far
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I disconnected from the rockchip
asciilifeform: danke schon diana_coman
asciilifeform: ok i have a prelim verdict :
asciilifeform: the samsung sticks are sad. back contacts (usb3) in'em, slowly dissolve
asciilifeform: ( perhaps from heat )
asciilifeform: this is the last time we use plastic-faced usb3 sticks.
asciilifeform: diana_coman and mod6 will be bitwise-copied to the 2 virginal spares today, and the entire cluster will be moved onto new sticks . the latter will be obtained asap.
asciilifeform: errybody should be back in biz in 3-4 hrs.
asciilifeform: http://logs.bvulpes.com/pizarro?d=2018-9-11#427276 << whole log of the hunt, for reference .
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2018-09-11 15:01 BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: In the cage
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo is quite the useful remote pair of hands by now, isn't he.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo did a++++ work in the bilge today (and to date) .
asciilifeform: and he's got a good memory, i suspect he won't need explicit instruction next time.
mircea_popescu: anyway. what model samsungs ? or ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: MUF-128BB/AM
asciilifeform: and ha, they're apparently off the market nao
asciilifeform: i suspect we weren't the only ones.
mircea_popescu: strangely these are supposedly very low heat.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: mine right here is a good 45C
asciilifeform: which i suspect is bit much
asciilifeform: (prolly can thank pbfree solders...)
asciilifeform: currently i am looking at replacement https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-BAR-Plus-128GB-MUF-128BE4/dp/B07BPG9YX9 , which is a good ~4cm iron pig ☟︎
mircea_popescu: isn't this a metal casing item ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the orig is a ~1cm thing, with plastic arse
asciilifeform: ~0 heat transfer to anyffing but the jack iron
asciilifeform: http://aaronrogier.net/uart2.JPG << from #p log, they are visible
mircea_popescu: well what can i tell ya, this looks like it's a premium item.
asciilifeform: lol , is what asciilifeform thought !
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: This is what it looks like when you throw 8 of them in Amazon cart. http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/xlJ9O/?raw=true
asciilifeform: approx what i'd expect
asciilifeform: update : diana_coman's disk set to copy in parallel with mod6's
asciilifeform: ( using vacant rk )
asciilifeform: !Q later tell diana_coman plox to log into your unit and put it through any necessary tests
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: !Q later tell mod6 plox to log into your unit and put it through any necessary tests
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: when both of you ping me back with green light signal, i'ma zero the old sticks and have BingoBoingo mail'em to asciilifeformistan for the vivisection table
asciilifeform: in the coming days BingoBoingo will obtain a blower to give added airflow to the pilot plant , oughta extend the life of the remaining sadsamsungs until we get the replacements in.
asciilifeform: mod6, diana_coman you should be back in biznis nao, plz say asap if notice any problem.
asciilifeform: and ty BingoBoingo for the skilled hands.