530 entries in 0.632s
bounce: the gn00 guys also socialist. poettering not so much, though. why u no liek
systemd?
mircea_popescu: lol so pankkake got butthurt because we don't like
systemd, decided bitcoin "wouldn't have worked anyway" ? that's some pretty good fatlogic right there.
bounce: fighting with hald/dbus/udevd/*kit/
systemd/whatever?
decimation:
https://github.com/EtchedPixels/FUZIX << Alan Cox: "Fed up of
SystemD ? Kdbus the final straw ? Linux community too large and noisy ? Yearn for the good old days when you knew every contributor by name and the source code fitted on a single floppy disc ?"
assbot: Say Something Nice About
systemd - Slashdot
mircea_popescu: BUT at least back when they were making django they weren't making
systemd TomServo: Did he ever give an explanation? Was it really
SystemD bashing?
jurov: i'm sure they will include some ddos functionality into
systemd bery soon
jurov: asciilifeform today's log says debian's supposedly voting to allow compatibility outside
systemd jurov: it's revenge for us bashing the
systemd jurov: so i came to the
systemd stuff in the lawgs .. and
assbot: New
systemd dependencies - Portage Help - Funtoo Linux
decimation: lol
https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/4/2/415 << the
systemd people tried to get Linus to accept a patch where the 'debug' kernel command argument would be silently removed from userspace, because it would trigger
systemd spamming errors so badly that it wouldn't boot the system
assbot: Ts’o and Linus And The Impotent Rage Against
systemd « IgnorantGuru's Blog
assbot:
Systemd Adding Its Own Console To Linux Systems - Slashdot
decimation: asciilifeform: I was going to make this point yesterday: you drive a stake in the heart of
systemd because you prefer... bash?
assbot: Gentoo Without
systemd - Gentoo Wiki
decimation: asciilifeform: thanks for that gentoo -
systemd tip. it would be handy to make a
systemd-free linux box
assbot: Gentoo Without
systemd - Gentoo Wiki
decimation: what I find interesting is that
systemd has become standard in redhat enterprise 7
decimation: although according to the boycottsystemd webpage, it sounds like
systemd 'wants' to take over much of unix userland
BingoBoingo: decimation:
systemd temps the desktop systems with login handling
decimation: asciilifeform: so I tried to install gentoo in a vm last night, was disappointed that it wanted me to install
systemd. apparently one should install 'minimal' and then bootstrap software stack
BingoBoingo: decimation: Solution might be to be lazier to avoid the
systemd update???
BingoBoingo: <decimation> although they jumped on the
systemd bandwagon << Alpine Linux still defaults to clean
decimation: although they jumped on the
systemd bandwagon
BingoBoingo: One of the most disappointing name collisions has to been the suckage
systemd vs. the awesome System D
BingoBoingo: <chalbersma> Yep the company I work for still developes the latest stuff for HP-UX. Luckily we're moving off it for RHEL later this year. << Stahp or I'll have to cover you in my
systemd fatwah
BingoBoingo: The sad thing about
systemd is that even though red hat made it, ubuntu will fork it just because, and it will die. No serious intervention ought be necessary for this Hearnia
BingoBoingo: Who knows? Maybe now that the FBI has seen it it stops liking
systemd?
BingoBoingo: <BingoBoingo> zdzichu: No until you stop insisting all the world make
systemd a dependency. Stop making my niggers pick your cotton!!!
BingoBoingo: <zdzichu> BingoBoingo: so go and ignore
systemd BingoBoingo: Trolling #
systemd is like slaughtering lemmings
BingoBoingo: So...
systemd chan might not have someone capable of banning me
BingoBoingo:
systemd has 24 months to learn the silence that the spring lambs can't
mircea_popescu: Myth:
systemd's use of D-Bus instead of sockets makes it intransparent. This claim is already contradictory in itself: D-Bus uses sockets as transport, too. Hence whenever D-Bus is used to send something around, a socket is used for that too. D-Bus is mostly a standardized serialization of messages to send over these sockets. If anything this makes it more transparent, since this serialization is well documented, under
BingoBoingo: If you pretend
systemd lives on an arch that can count aleph sub one possibilities Imma take my dick out and correct in in the traditional chinese sense
mircea_popescu: For example, systems running
systemd now generally store their hostname in /etc/hostname, something that used to be specific to Debian and now is used across distributions. << holy hell that took half a century.
BingoBoingo: <sztanpet> cool, now that its un-prefixed from
systemd people are meant to use it anyway so might as well make it useful :D
mircea_popescu: this is kind-of bizarre. so, ok, syslogd gets whatever
systemd feels like passing along. why is this useful and to whom
BingoBoingo:
systemd gets a kilogram of brass. The niggers behind it can decide if the brass is shaped into hammers or bullets.
mircea_popescu: Myth:
systemd makes it impossible to run syslog. >> Not true, we carefully made sure when we introduced the journal that all data is also passed on to any syslog daemon running. In fact, if something changed, then only that syslog gets more complete data now than it got before, since we now cover early boot stuff as well as STDOUT/STDERR of any system service.
BingoBoingo:
Systemd distros can go back to the jungle and fuck chimps.
mircea_popescu: 19. Myth:
systemd forces you to do something.
systemd is not the mafia. It's Free Software, you can do with it whatever you want, and that includes not using it. That's pretty much the opposite of "forcing". << lol ok, that's about the most disingenuous thing i read today. you know what else is free software ? BITCOIN!!!
BingoBoingo: per <Luke-Jr> even I think
systemd is crap
BingoBoingo: The point is that to call
systemd a lost cause I need not be important at all
BingoBoingo: Now if GNU Hurd was a useful thing in 1991...
systemd might be a thing.
BingoBoingo: Look, the way Bitcoin regulation works is my TI-89 was my favorite computer loving ass said the
systemd war is over and initd won. Give it time to stew, but that's the fina word.
pankkake: I have written inits for
systemd, debian, and openrc. have you?
Azelphur: Everyone is talking about
systemd, and I'm just sitting here using runit which nobody knows about.
Luke-Jr: even I think
systemd is crap
mircea_popescu: and declarative by nature. That all said, if you are experienced in shell, then yes, adopting
systemd will take a bit of learning."
mircea_popescu: "
systemd certainly comes with a learning curve. Everything does. However, we like to believe that it is actually simpler to understand
systemd than a Shell-based boot for most people. Surprised we say that? Well, as it turns out, Shell is not a pretty language to learn, it's syntax is arcane and complex.
systemd unit files are substantially easier to understand, they do not expose a programming language, but are simple
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> "we designed
systemd with security in mind" << by now this is pretty much usable as-is, might as well be a protein binding site for pathogens. << Why not a still moar precarious binging site for understood drugs?
mircea_popescu: Yes,
systemd is fast (A pretty complete userspace boot-up in ~900ms, anyone?) << yeah ? since I dunno, 1995 ? i've always took the system apart if it needed more than a second.
mircea_popescu: "we designed
systemd with security in mind" << by now this is pretty much usable as-is, might as well be a protein binding site for pathogens.
mircea_popescu: pankkake and in spite of the technical angle, what stinks to high heavens to me is the political angle. so gnome decides to not be dependent on
systemd in 2012, then in 2013 they make it a de-facto dependency. because... heh. because why ?
mircea_popescu: if the computer is the shirt, and initd is a tie and
systemd is a bowtie, me saying that it's not as easy to hang someone by his bowtie is not answered by your proposition that ties can get stained too. sure, they can, but we were discussing hanging not disembowelment.
BingoBoingo: pankkake: Because the Linux standard base lets me use a runlevel 4,
systemd doesn't allow that
pankkake: just list a valid technical point of why
systemd is bad and I'll listen. as I said, the criticism I see just show lack of knowledge of both
systemd and existing init systems
mircea_popescu: pankkake you gonna tell me what the
systemd butthurt was all about or just gonna rage silently and then come stab me 119 times in the middle of the night FOR NO FAULT OF MY OWN ?
mircea_popescu: ered-down encryption (to use stronger encryption in many areas, such as AES-loop, you needed to compile your own kernel and go to great lengths to manually bypass barriers they put in place to the use of genuinely strong encryption). This told me then that those who controlled distributions were deeply in the pockets of intelligence networks. So it comes as no surprise to me that they jumped on board
systemd when told
mircea_popescu: o look, there's an entire
systemd discussion in teh log.
assbot: The
Systemd war is over | Bingo Blog
BingoBoingo: Or like
systemd radiation would have been still moar trendy