assbot: W/o getting too mushy, this is the best job Ive ever had & my coworkers are the best bunch of folks Ive ever had the privilege to work with
kakobrekla: <mircea_popescu> how is bitfinex an exchange at all ? < ask josh?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 9 @ 0.1783311 = 1.605 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.18481066 = 0.9241 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 34 @ 0.18970204 = 6.4499 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.19001666 = 1.1401 BTC [+] {3}
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: that video needs to be run through the google dewigglifier
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: The video wiggles only because the world does
assbot: Bones: An Orthopedic Surgeon's Perspective - Medical Satire - GomerBlog
assbot: Veterinarians Behaving Badly: Rabies Testing & Quarantine
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: That was a false alarm on the reporter, confused him with a nearly indistinguishable reporter for Conde Nast
mircea_popescu: "She even managed to gracefully handle the incessant "point of order" type questioning from the one guy in the back, who always has to ask a stream of arcane academic questions that are irrelevant to anyone living in the real world."
BingoBoingo: Well, I dunno that Bitcoin has made it too far into medicine yet aside from that Dr. Goss guy with the MyBitcoin fiasco
mircea_popescu: dude rly ? this chick is easily the most annoying shrill pest at any party.
mircea_popescu: she's made all that out of someone dropping the wrong shit i nthe bag ?
BingoBoingo: Yeah, amazing how whining about shit is a pest past time.
BingoBoingo: Vetrinarian is almost like the parody orthopod
BingoBoingo: I prolly should have went to doctor school and been an orthopod
mircea_popescu: my schedule is utterly irregular if it helps anything.
BingoBoingo: What is a schedule and does it self lubricate?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform> irregular schedule because you don't feel like sleeping in a given week is rather different from because phone rings and you have to get in a wheeled coffin because otherwise starve. << I prefer to think of my car as an ablative Iron Man suit that protects me from exertion and damage at high speeds
mircea_popescu: i don't see it. so in both cases you don't feel like sleeping that week
mircea_popescu: i dun credit this. you kill a guy, you've killed some guy. there's no "i had to kill him", is there ? there's no "i had to eat this icecream". you eat it, you get fat, you don't, you don't.
mircea_popescu: if you don't feel like sleeping, does it matter what bell arrangement you use to ruin your sleep for you ?
BingoBoingo: Eh, some weeks I'll sleep 3 hours. Others I'll sleep 12 a day.
mircea_popescu: this is like "the sun is moving on the sky" "no the earth is moving really".
BingoBoingo: I live atm next to a fucking race track. have slept through races
mircea_popescu: you know the difference between antoinette and teh populace isn't that she's richer than them, it's that unlike them she dun care if she dies.
kakobrekla: i think mp is tying to say that everything but death is optional
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla no but i mean... you gotta APPLY to these people's waking up service. job interview and all that.
mircea_popescu: at some point in there you gotta admit you pretty much went "sleep, fu."
mircea_popescu: now im asked to credit that whether you do this for purely aesthetic reasons or otherwise makes a difference.
mircea_popescu: well... what difference does it make ? you're still awake.
kakobrekla: your universal law of sleep undisturbness is unknown to most of the world.
gribble: Error: "tickler" is not a valid command.
gribble: (ticker [--bid|--ask|--last|--high|--low|--avg|--vol] [--currency XXX] [--market <market>|all]) -- Return pretty-printed ticker. Default market is Bitstamp. If one of the result options is given, returns only that numeric result (useful for nesting in calculations). If '--currency XXX' option is given, returns ticker for that three-letter currency code. It is up to you to make sure (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: stop pinging the poor guy spuriously. he like teaches and shit.
empyex: mircea_popescu: [S.MPOE] Bids: 3700 @ 0.00076773 10633 @ 0.00076594 10800 @ 0.00076507 10275 @ 0.00076418
empyex: mircea_popescu: [S.MPOE] Asks: 22250 @ 0.00076782 14306 @ 0.00076969 36377 @ 0.00076980 4395 @ 0.00076988
assbot: When adopting African kids with AIDS becomes mandatory, urinate in public. As a sex offender you're not allowed near children. /hashtag/lifehacks?src=hash
TheNewDeal: ok kind of pissed here. submitted a good wager with 1.6 btc zeroconf, doesn't get accepted. somebody makes a shitty bet about 4chan and posts .09 btc and it gets accepted?
BingoBoingo: I though it was clear that 2BTC is pretty much the new zeroconf magic number
TheNewDeal: 1.66 is virtually 2, and if I would have known .3 btc would have made any sort of difference I would have obviously added it
TheNewDeal: sports wasn't the issue. No bets being placed on soccer, while creating 50 bets was a issue
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] [PAID] 166.02027623 BTC to 500`000`000 shares, 33 satoshi per share
mircea_popescu: TheNewDeal i have no idea why i have to drag it out of you. you';re the upset party, you're supposed to be naturally verbose.
TheNewDeal: i was betting on them winning their next 7 consecutive games
TheNewDeal: and it could have been open for as much as 6 weeks for betting
mircea_popescu: 07-09-2014 Rejected Badgers (NCAAF) to finish 9 games with 2 losses (or more)
mircea_popescu: Rejection reason: Consider submitting with substantial paid wager.
BingoBoingo: Wisconsin doesn't exactly have a challenging schedule
mircea_popescu: 2 or more losses means they need what, 2 out of 9 wins ?
TheNewDeal: they need to win all of the games up until 9, or they will have 2 losses
assbot: Wisconsin Football - Badgers News, Scores, Videos - College Football - ESPN
BingoBoingo: #18 Wisconsin should play the rest of their season undefeated
BingoBoingo: I would, but that would be Un-PC given Bo Pellini's face Chlymidia
TheNewDeal: I had to bet more, is what I understand
BingoBoingo: But of the stretch to the Purdue game, Wisconsin should still be able to Lose to Northwestern and YEs still wins.
mircea_popescu: Badgers (NCAAF) to finish 9 games with 2 losses (or more) <<< ie, if they have 5 losses, it's a yes.
BingoBoingo: Maryland *might* beat Wisconsin if alf can shock their team just right
TheNewDeal: I realize it was worded shitlity, but I needed to draw some light on the fact that they already lost one game
mircea_popescu: well so a) word it better ; b) obscure sports bets 2 btc as per whenever i announced this.
BingoBoingo: TheNewDeal: What happened to the B1G, You don't play any of [Michigan. Michigan State, Ohio SucksCocks University}
TheNewDeal: they play a tournament at the end of the year now
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: He's the coach, needs to be able to see.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3700 @ 0.00076773 = 2.8406 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol now to get me up to speed, where did we discuss this ?
assbot: Logged on 20-08-2014 11:38:13; mircea_popescu: <RagnarDanneskjol> I know more than a few highly competent pool hosts if this one proves unreliable << so hook something up
mircea_popescu: aha. well, that proved reliable so far, but anyway, let's see if we can do something for your friend here.
mircea_popescu: X-Rob refresh me, what's the problem with p2pool in bitcoin again ? too slow -> orphans or what was it ?
RagnarDanneskjol: i didn't think there was an atc p2pool avail with monitoring, etc that anyone could use
X-Rob: mircea_popescu: nothing's really wrong with p2pool in bitcoin, as it has a decent block time
mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol well x-rob was going to make one, but then he got high.
BingoBoingo: Now the COinminer ATC p2pool was configured poorly or something?
X-Rob: p2pool with coins that have ultra-short block times cause issues, as the p2pool share time is 1/10th of the coin block time
X-Rob: It kept falling over, I think was the major issue.
X-Rob: BingoBoingo had already voiced him 8)
BingoBoingo: Well a problem with the Coinminer p2pool was they never fucking responded to inquiries
mircea_popescu: so then why exactly are there no p2p pools in bitcoin ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10350 @ 0.00076594 = 7.9275 BTC [-]
X-Rob: mircea_popescu: p2pool in bitcoin was 5% of the network, last time I looked.
chalbersma: I was more wondering what exactly you were looking for.
X-Rob: Ah. That's a different question. BEcause people can't math.
mircea_popescu: chalbersma well, atc is this direct btc clone. it currenlty has not much of a usable pool.
atcbot: No data returned from CoinMiner.net
atcbot: [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s [iSpace Pool Hashrate]: 1.61 TH/s
atcbot: No data returned from CoinMiner.net
atcbot: [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s [iSpace Pool Hashrate]: 1.52 TH/s
mircea_popescu: X-Rob speaking of ppl can't math : "Basically, by specifying the price to such a huge place, it gives an advantage because it takes a smaller price change to win."
chalbersma: I've set it up with bitcoin and from what I understand atc is almost identical it "should work" almost out of the box.
X-Rob: mircea_popescu: what's that gibberish?
mircea_popescu: fresh offa reddit. people apparently believe that 1.4589799845796 is specified narrowerly than 2.
X-Rob: I'm assuming it was comprehensible in context?
assbot: Mark_Karpeles_Jr comments on BitBet - Bitcoin to surpass Berkshire as an investment :: 1121.08 B (85%) on Yes, 193.66 B (15%) on No
chalbersma: Yes I run one for RSM an internal P2pool node for bitcoin with a few alts merge mined.
chalbersma: Mid range started getting involved summer of last year.
BingoBoingo: chalbersma: Given the first name Meni... Can you offer a last name and a list of transgressions?
assbot: chalbersma/btcaddrtocsv GitHub
RagnarDanneskjol: he's a candidate who came to me, i interviewed a few times and deemed worthy of such an undertaking
TheNewDeal: for a second I thought he operated a pool for richard stallman...
assbot: xrobau comments on BitBet - Bitcoin to surpass Berkshire as an investment :: 1121.08 B (85%) on Yes, 193.66 B (15%) on No
mircea_popescu: chalbersma so what's your relation to the guy running it, w/e his name is ?
chalbersma: We're friends. Are you asking me to tell you his name?
RagnarDanneskjol: he's a nice southern gentleman who wanted to work in crypto and just happened to live in close proximity to them
RagnarDanneskjol: he didnt know in advance of employment, correct me if i'm wrong chris
mircea_popescu: anyway, so you setup a private p2poolk for rsm. anything non private / i can verify ?
chalbersma: Ya he has an opinion about you but then again he's a bit hotheaded and has opinions about a lot of people. But he gave me my first break in bitcoin so...
mircea_popescu: chalbersma contrary to what BingoBoingo may have you believe, there's no secret initiation rite, especiually nothing involving blood.
chalbersma: Ya but I needed someone to "show me the ropes" so to speak. I'm sure I could have done it myself but this gave me a structured way to start.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It totally involves blood, but yes it isn't secret... Totally public
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7329 @ 0.00076418 = 5.6007 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: chalbersma: What are your favorite Unixisms?
mike_c: RagnarDanneskjol: did you mention awhile ago that you were involved with a new ATC block explorer? or did I make that up in a dream?
chalbersma: ATM the RSM p2pool has a private IP in the DC but we're working on getting it a public one. When the request comes back you'd be able to log into the public stats page and check it out.
assbot: The Continued Pussification of the American Male
nanotube: BingoBoingo: tickler eh hehe. mircea_popescu thanks for the concern :D
KRS-1: I don't publish anything.
BingoBoingo: KRS-1: Why not, you've often had insightful things.
KRS-1: I've often thought about it tbh.
mircea_popescu: "Gentlemen, being a man is great. You get to use your muscles to pick up heavy things, you get to use your dick to fuck things, and you get to use your brain to think and create things. It’s no wonder feminist’s hate men – they desperately want what we have but they can never have it. But how the heck have they convinced MEN that being a man is bad or evil?" << ah come on, women can't lift things ? wtf.
BingoBoingo: I mean German women are the backbone of Europe
KRS-1: I've got to admit the author has an edge and I find a lot of his writing pretty good.
mircea_popescu: KRS-1 well so the guy has broadly speaking a point. otherwise he's much too blund and sorely uneducated/uninformed to make much of it.
assbot: Supermicro | Products | SuperServers | 1U | 5018A-TN4
chalbersma: Originally designed it to do scrypt p2pool with many alts but the scrypt hardware we pre-ordered was delayed.
KRS-1: Cool thanks for checking it out
assbot: netsolus | IT Services Kansas City
BingoBoingo: chalbersma: I've been looking at datacenters in the region for my blog
BingoBoingo: Fuck KC, I was hoping you'd have an StL solution. Or maybe CoMo
KRS-1: imo Texas is the best place to set up shop
BingoBoingo: Only Texans I've met have been steers and queers
KRS-1: HAHA I've heard that before
KRS-1: At least 5 major carriers converge somewhere in Dallas. Major peering points.
mircea_popescu: txas is good. atlanta is also good. slc is actually decent
mircea_popescu: chalbersma ok so, part of the problem here is that the entire market cap of atc is about what it'd cost to get a server colo'd.
chalbersma: Depending on the size of the atc blockchain you may be able to host it on a VPS cheaper.
chalbersma: Or potentially host it off someones home connection for a smaller fee.
decimation: re: hoa << it's a scam that's also perpetrated by the 'property management' industry
BingoBoingo: I could move 4 times in the next year so my home connection is iffy
decimation: they charge several hundred $usd to provide the 'paperwork' needed to sell a house with covenants
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Well, I have a domain name
decimation: also many states/counties charge a high fee to reproduce the official deeds with covenants
BingoBoingo: HOA's are a scam because most of them ban unkers
TheNewDeal: KRS-1 not totally convinced "soy is an estrogen enhancing garbage by-product." Used to supplement it while lifting weights in the past, worked just fine for muscle buidling
decimation: well individually nobody (it's a roundoff error in the total 'fees' required to transact us real estate) , but spread over thousands of transactions you have a 'special interest'
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Meant bunkers, I would love a studio apartment under the pasture
decimation: also many of them have language banning antennas of all kinds -- this was 'encouraged' by the cable companies
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Amaxing how much of the research in this field is documented on "reality tv"
decimation: they usually also ban things like clotheslines and pretty much anything unusual
decimation: asciilifeform: that only applies to regular humans using 'small' (less than 1 meter) sat dishes or tv antennas
chalbersma: Almost dead now. I was quite interested in it. Was permanent storage in a blockchain. Never really valuable but an interesting concept.
BingoBoingo: What if my dick curves ever so slightly to the left? It's conductive... antenna?
assbot: Over-the-Air Reception Devices Rule | FCC.gov
decimation: right, 30 foot tower with 15 foot HF dipole is banned
decimation: most us folk think antennas are 'ugly'
mircea_popescu: decimation well in exchange you get to not have a pole around
decimation: "The rule (47 C.F.R. Section 1.4000) has been in effect since October 1996, and it prohibits restrictions that impair the installation, maintenance or use of antennas used to receive video programming. "
BingoBoingo: Antenna need not be pole. Saltwater lake works too.
decimation: you see, it's okay to receive propaganda
decimation: BingoBoingo: not if you want low-angle radiation for maximal ionospheric skip
mircea_popescu: chalbersma i see. well okay, so do you see yourself running a bunch of pools in the future ? or what ?
BingoBoingo: decimation: Then you dig your lake a better hole and insert pipes for "irrigation"
decimation: although it's true that many objects can be made to radiate if matched properly
decimation: although a salt marsh would make an ideal ground plane
BingoBoingo: decimation: or ground aspargus mound works perfectly
decimation: or string sufficiently invisible wire in a tree
chalbersma: Not sure to be honest. I'm a Sys Admin by day so it seemed natural to bring those skills to bitcoin as I started to get into it.
chalbersma: If they're is enough interest in p2pool and other mining servers I might consider it.
assbot: In D.C., a 13-year-old piano prodigy is treated as a truant instead of a star student - The Washington Post
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you can't hide an antenna. this is the definition of antennae.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if receiving don't even need all that much.
KRS-1: lol so many sysadmins
decimation: yeah the real complication comes when you want to pump high power into something and have it not burn/explode
RagnarDanneskjol: chalbersma - the interest is there - I get requests for pool talent all the time.
BingoBoingo: chalbersma: Any experience with Solaris or Free(storage)BSD? Any intent on running a hosting operation yourself?
mircea_popescu: after bitvps went to the dogs i dunno that there's actually any dedicated btc hoster
KRS-1: BingoBoingo: I work for a datacenter in Canada. I often thought of setting up something but I go blank when I think of what to do.
chalbersma: @Bingo would consider it in the future. Not looking into starting a hosting gig full time at this point. I haven't worked with Solaris but at my last job I did setup an internal FreeBSD webserver for them and I've been keeping up with FBSD for a while (esp. that ZFS goodness).
KRS-1: openstack often comes to mind lately though
chalbersma: @Bingo I am also interested in MaidSafe it seems like if it's implemented properly it could be the decentralized Amazon EC2.
decimation: I was thinking to myself this evening: what if Washington DC were washed into the sea tomorrow? usg's contingency plans would probably be to move the government west, in the middle of the kulaks they have been harassing for decades. I don't think that 'contingency usg' would survive as an entity that we would recognize.
BingoBoingo: decimation: You know StL was considered as a potential replacement DC after it was sacked by Canada
BingoBoingo: decimation: Dtrace has been a thing since I was a wee college freshman
chalbersma: I've heard rumors of Denver. Major air hub, centrally located, US mint, near AF College...
chalbersma: Plus the usg couldn't get any worse if it was toking up. :)
decimation: asciilifeform: try running 'valgrind' on an application that requires high-bandwidth/speed performance
decimation: chalbersma: denver would be logical. my point is that I suspect that usg employees are paid $$$ to write fantasy
decimation: asciilifeform: no as in if it must keep up with real-time hardware
decimation: can you buy such a beast for high-end intel boards?
BingoBoingo: <decimation> asciilifeform: no as in if it must keep up with real-time hardware << Sounds like someone needs to buy Alpha IP from Intel
decimation: linux actually has something called 'perf' that does this - sorta - but the problem is that it doesn't do a full backtrace
assbot: How to Have a Non-Monogamous Relationship | VICE United States
chalbersma: So this p2pool server are you looking for one to run with ATC or with Bitcoin? My understanding is that ATC is not merge minable.
assbot: Loper OS » Mechanics of FLUXBABBITT.
decimation: asciilifeform: heh yeah, but does it track frame pointers?
BingoBoingo: ATC is totally not mergeminable, and there are questions over whether pool hosting costs could be justified for:
assbot: BtcAlpha.com F.MPIF Tracker estimated NAV per share: 0.00021650 B (Total: 473.44 B). Delta: -1.08 B. Last trade for F.MPIF on MPEX was at 0.00022 BTC [+]
atcbot: [X-BT] Bid: 205 Ask: 221 Last Price: 221 24h-Vol: 2k High: 221 Low: 221 VWAP: 221
atcbot: [X-BT VWAP] Bid: 205 Ask: 221 Last Price: 221 30d-Vol: 842k 30d-High: 250 30d-Low: 170 30d-VWAP: 195
atcbot: [ATC Diff] Current Diff: 1878190.93 Est. Next Diff: 282937.87 in 1266 blocks (#46368) Est. % Change: -84.94
BingoBoingo: Valgrind definitely has higher resolution than resedit for sure.
BingoBoingo: Resedit being the last great dev tool offered by apple
chalbersma: If the idea is to minimize costs then a VPS is probably your best bet for now. Especially considering that the blockchain is so small. Question can other sha-256 coins be merged ontop of atc? Like namecoin
BingoBoingo: No merged mining is possible with ATC, by ThickasTheives design
BingoBoingo: ATC is a totally independent SHA-256 chain
decimation: BingoBoingo: actually osx has 'dtrace'
assbot: Brendan's blog » Top 10 DTrace scripts for Mac OS X
BingoBoingo: decimation: OSX is not Mac OS and is not a thing I recognize as existing.
chalbersma: I think the real issue then is how much "ummph" does the VPS in question need. I've not had a chance to experiment with the minimum requirements for ATC or p2pool ontop of ATC.
decimation: asciilifeform I suspect such hardware would not be cheap
BingoBoingo: decimation: The last version of Mac anything was 7.5.1
mircea_popescu: X-Rob wa the pool falling over because not enough cpu ?
X-Rob: mircea_popescu: I have no idea. It just stopped giving me work
chalbersma: Does anyone have an idea of how much ram atc's daemon uses?
decimation: X-Rob: why do you think folks are willing to pay more than the expected return to rent miners?
X-Rob: decimation: Because they are willing. It's not a hypothesis.
X-Rob: mircea_popescu: No, actually, you're not. I think I ended up charging you about 0.1btc over estimate
chalbersma: So not much at all. I think the p2pool node I setup for RSM was using about 400MB of RAM but I was telling that server to manually connect to a number of peers.
assbot: Re: Upper limits of CL - Naggum cll archive
atcbot: [X-BT VWAP] Bid: 205 Ask: 221 Last Price: 221 30d-Vol: 842k 30d-High: 250 30d-Low: 170 30d-VWAP: 195
mircea_popescu: X-Rob so that's not overpaying ? because why, not enough decimals ? :D
X-Rob: Because that's well within statistical uncertanty
X-Rob: mircea_popescu: I think he's referring to me being at estimate * 1.25 on leaserig.
decimation: asciilifeform: I think with the new 'dwarf frames' & libunwind things have gotten better on linux
X-Rob: decimation: I feel that I'm always at the bottom edge of the market of rig hire. I don't want to appear to rip people off
X-Rob: However, I invested 1BTC to lease a bunch of rigs when SSD was released
X-Rob: I ended up owning almost 10% of the coin
X-Rob: which I then sold and recouped my investment with a nice margin
X-Rob: mircea_popescu: Sonic Screw Driver. Tor-based coin. Technically interesting.
decimation: X-Rob: good move, sounds like a decent business
assbot: [C] example of gcov - Pastebin.com
X-Rob: decimation: It's not a business. It's a hobby.
mircea_popescu: tbh i imagine that's what powers the 25%. narrow base.
Guest36874: I'm almost certain its not a CPU or decimal issue...pool crashing that is
chalbersma: I noticed someone said they didn't like bitvps but they have VPS for $20/mo that may do the trick. I assume other vps providers have similar pricing. 2 cores 2G 20GB 2TB transfer.
X-Rob: mircea_popescu: yep. It's unusual for my main rig to be idle for more than 6 hours or so.
decimation: asciilifeform: I find that they are useful for picking the 'low hanging fruit'
decimation: programmers today are so lazy and wasteful with memory
mircea_popescu: it's judicious allocation decimation. compare cost of ram chips with what programmers cost.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6750 @ 0.0007626 = 5.1476 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: I wish the hardware had garbage collection built-in like your dream, but the problem is that the von neumann world is going the other direction
decimation: mircea_popescu: I guess I'm talking more about 'thrashing' - allocating and deallocating memory without care
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user chalbersma has been recorded.
mircea_popescu: you can self-up if identified to gribble, just pm assbot !up
decimation: as memory becomes slower relative to cores*cache available the incentive is to micro-manage how data is shoveled into the cpus
gribble: Current Blocks: 320082 | Current Difficulty: 2.7428630902257874E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 320543 | Next Difficulty In: 461 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 2 hours, 15 minutes, and 18 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 29144209996.7 | Estimated Percent Change: 6.2547
upme_boolcrap: how many women do you have cooking for you at once Mr.P?
chalbersma: Ya I remember reading about the RG problems. I use bitvps for my blog and it seems fairly stable. But I assume that there's probably a number of people offering VPS hosting for bitcoin these days.
upme_boolcrap: how can i convince my wife to let me have more wives
assbot: Mid West Guy | A blog detailing useful stuff I've learned.
upme_boolcrap: if she let me have more wives she would have to clean less
chalbersma: Not really a marriage until it's N+1 eh?
BingoBoingo: chalbersma: I know you linked an atom server architecture earlier, but x86 can't be your fave... can it?
decimation: chalbersma: some good tips on your blog, thanks for writing them up
assbot: ARK | Intel® Atom Processor C2750 (4M Cache, 2.40 GHz)
decimation: chalbersma: lol you still maintain hp-ux?
chalbersma: Yep the company I work for still developes the latest stuff for HP-UX. Luckily we're moving off it for RHEL later this year.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I might be throwing out a lot of boxen soon.
BingoBoingo: <chalbersma> Yep the company I work for still developes the latest stuff for HP-UX. Luckily we're moving off it for RHEL later this year. << Stahp or I'll have to cover you in my systemd fatwah
assbot: Romanian Billionaire Saves OpenBSD | Bingo Blog
assbot: [C] example of gcov - Pastebin.com
chalbersma: @decimation yes but not all the AIX/HP-UX clients are government.
decimation: next someone is going to come around saying they maintain IRIX
decimation: asciilifeform: they were pretty to be sure
assbot: Geoff's Projects - ASCII Video Terminal
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Isn't Irix basically crotchless panties?
assbot: Free Pages Personnelles: Erreur 404 - Document non trouvé
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Modern is A/UX and system 7, everything used nao is postmodern
decimation: asciilifeform: my main requirement is to ditch x-ray crt
assbot: IBM 3101 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
BingoBoingo used NetBSD's GPG fork on my MacSE/30 this fucking spring
decimation: I would agree that finding one that spoke rs-422 would be neat
BingoBoingo: Seriously, burned rather than finish finding entropy to generate keys
BingoBoingo: <decimation> asciilifeform: my main requirement is to ditch x-ray crt << How else are you going to spot USD???
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I see it supports RS-422, that's neat. Would be useful for a home serial-terminal server
BingoBoingo assumes the reason for metallic ink on high denomination USD bills is X-Ray shadow at the air port
decimation: asciilifeform: makes me sad I ditched my 21 inch trinitron a few years ago, but it was a heavy bitch
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah the weight is mostly the lead in the glass to protect from x-rays
BingoBoingo regrets not talking first realish job into the other 3 processors and GB of RAM into the Ultra 80
decimation: junk dealers are selling all kinds of old ibm rs-422 terminals for various crazy asks
decimation: probably the way to find those cheap is to find some library or other such institution 'upgrading' to microshit
BingoBoingo: Only real difference between rs-422 and rs-232 is five minutes with a knife
decimation: BingoBoingo: rs-422 is a differential signal
BingoBoingo: <decimation> probably the way to find those cheap is to find some library or other such institution 'upgrading' to microshit << Interesting you mention this nao, get back to me in 2 weeks
BingoBoingo: decimation: I spz. knife instead of plug for a reason...
decimation remembers every pos and library using said terminals growing up, only to be replaced with buggy-ass windows for no reason
☟︎ decimation: I actually worked in a library in my youth, I quite enjoyed the spring keyboard and the 'peripheral' laser scanner
BingoBoingo: FUKU... or whatever my coinbr referal code is. I'm trying to get library work nao.
BingoBoingo: It was the GUI that corresponded to what the machine offered.
decimation: asciilifeform: I carried that thing over many moves, finally decided lcds were good enough to replace it
decimation: then I became addicted to the extra square feet of space
decimation: it's true, I miss the contrast ratio for one thing
BingoBoingo: decimation: Only Liberia still has true blacks
decimation: a good sweet watermelon is one of the pleasures of the end of summer
decimation: you live within commuting range of ascii? You must be rich
decimation: I've heard of people commuting from west virginia to the dc area
decimation: I was talking with a guy who worked near the Googleplex the other day - apparently he knows people that commute 3 hours each way
assbot: Logged on 25-12-2013 21:26:27; asciilifeform: at some point 'the bezzle' becomes real, the cartoon wolf looks down and finally obeys gravity, goes splat off the cliff.
assbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I wish one could buy a poster-sized display
decimation: lol you dedicate one screen to emacs :)
decimation: what's the quartile in the upper right? just terminals?
decimation: are all of those displays driven from one machine?
decimation: I bet it was a pain in the ass to setup xconf
decimation: except if you use gentoo, occasion decisions by crazies wipe out your house, then rebuild...
decimation: so you 'emerge' once and then do everything else by hand?
decimation: sounds legit. I second diametric in that discussion the other day, I like arch as a former gentoo user
chalbersma: It's been a fun gents. I'm going to call it a night. You guys have a good one.
decimation: agreed, there is an unfilled space for an 'adult' source distro
BingoBoingo: Well ideas of adult and distro tend to run contrary to each other
decimation: ideally the distro should come from ascii's software-priests
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12800 @ 0.00076747 = 9.8236 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: HOTEL HELL S02E08 - Murphys Hotel - Watch Online For Free on TubePlus
assbot: NOAA / NWS Space Weather Prediction Center
upme_boolcrap: i want a solar flare that will destroy every electric instrument on earth
decimation: it's not the initial flare, it's the geomagnetic storm, which is mainly a threat to equipment attached to long conductors
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25360 @ 0.00076189 = 19.3215 BTC [-]
decimation: EMP from ionospheric H-bomb is a bigger threat to small electronics, but can be defended as ascii points out
BingoBoingo: Who needs TEMPEST wen you window leaks screen contents
assbot: User Uncle Al - Chemistry Stack Exchange
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: re schedule: what aspect of your professional work demands irregular hours?
ben_vulpes: <BingoBoingo> ben_vulpes: The video wiggles only because the world does << yeah, but have you seen the de-wiggler in action?
ben_vulpes: ah, i was only privy to the botnet inspector gig and NSA.
dub: what the fuck is this net slowdown shit
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: exercise and regularity of schedule << exercise, easy; regularity of schedule is a dream to me, on account of my profession.
assbot: Lights out: House plan would protect nation's electricity from solar flare, nuclear bomb | WashingtonExaminer.com
dub: my work week looks like ass for the rest of the year
dub: 22:00-03:00 4 nights a week
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Week I graduated college the world wiggled every other day. Maybe my life stalled out because it stopped???
decimation: I suspect that the fantasy-plans for "contingency usg" would be a hilarious read
BingoBoingo: * asciilifeform is not entirely innocent of exercise, is fond of walking around endlessly. << Walking is my escape plan
assbot: Can You Feel Anything When I Do This?, by Robert Sheckley
decimation: asciilifeform: also recommended by taleb. seems reasonable to do what humans have been doing for millennia
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo, asciilifeform: walking does not take one to the edge of the performance envelope.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Today an old colleague commented that i lost weight. Did not know the proper response to that.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Consecutive days walking is a metric too, right?
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> bell is used by other people to ruin your sleep. in exchange for food & housing. << f/h can be had without signing that contract. contract that includes "bells" should carry a markup adequate to compensate for the interruption of critical bio processes
ben_vulpes: contract negotiation is where everything starts.
BingoBoingo: No, sometimes contract happens before negotiation.
BingoBoingo: * asciilifeform merely dreams of living his built-in 26-hour circadian rhythm. << If I normalize I live on roughly 29 hour dyas
BingoBoingo: Winter though I have week long days. Summer I have day long weeks
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Oh, my schedule is anything but natural
BingoBoingo: I dunno that any advanced primate has a set schedule
ben_vulpes: hey i'm shoehorning my own cycle into the american business routine too asciilifeform
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Half the year I can make them feel lazy. Unfortunatley for me the half they aren't looking
ben_vulpes: although i never had the oportunity to discover what a "true" or "honest" cycle might look like, i just beat it until it submitted to what i wanted from my life
BingoBoingo: Back in JUly this year I had a week with 90 minutes of sleep
assbot: Watch The Blacklist Online - Milton Bobbit | Hulu
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17541 @ 0.00076586 = 13.434 BTC [+] {3}
ben_vulpes: <BingoBoingo> What, like JewGolf? << dear sir please assplain yourself
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: What, you think the dark run the game of baskets?
BingoBoingo: Also the chance Wisconsin does not win out the rest of its schedule is so remote that people who want to bet on it need to bitc to the Big 1G
assbot: The Continued Pussification of the American Male
Knot_Yeti: <BingoBoingo> Fuck KC, I was hoping you'd have an StL solution. Or maybe CoMo << flat, no earthquakes, reliable oil for the gennies, it's in every american seven-niner's uptime plan
Knot_Yeti: lordy im having trouble putting this beer and grinder down
BingoBoingo: Knot_Yeti: Also moar Niggers in the county PD
BingoBoingo: You have to remember I find Ladue Nigger central.
Knot_Yeti: you're making less sense than vexual
BingoBoingo: Knot_Yeti: No, I'm just saying STLCPD is a bunch of Niggers and the blacks in Ferguson deserve the right to lynch them\
BingoBoingo: Knot_Yeti: Well of course you can't in Vanilla city
Knot_Yeti: but i'm not about to stand up for the assholes running bikers over while tapping on their wheelbox-mounted tablest
gribble: CAUTION: irc nick differs from otc registered nick. Nick 'Knot_Yeti', with hostmask 'Knot_Yeti!~user@unaffiliated/benkay', is identified as user 'ben_vulpes', with GPG key id 2AFA1A9FD2D031DA, key fingerprint 4F7907942CA8B89B01E25A762AFA1A9FD2D031DA, and bitcoin address None
Knot_Yeti: so who is this recruiter character?
Knot_Yeti: pahaha mircea_popescu old the notion
BingoBoingo: I saw bob ross and you've got a decade on me MP
mircea_popescu: Knot_Yeti he's some guy working really hard at being halpful. im curious if it ends in tears, despair or great success.
mircea_popescu: o shoit, bob ross is the guy that "would you like a fresh towel" dude was trying to immitate.
assbot: Road Trip - ALL Rubin scenes - part 2 - YouTube
Knot_Yeti: <mircea_popescu> trustable btc hosting is probably in more demand atm << lotsa this
Knot_Yeti: but uninterruptible power, people on call 24/7, audited security procedures, remote hands...
assbot: Teflon with aluminum reaction (flash explosion) - YouTube
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Today I had to explain my secret sauce for preserving great editions
mircea_popescu: decimation: 'peripheral' laser scanner << you mean the handheld shits ?
assbot: So you think you're going to start a Bitcoin business, right?
decimation: mircea_popescu: yeah the little 'pen' devices
frankenmint: found that felt like a loser for not doing a otc trade yet
mircea_popescu: decimation: it's true, I miss the contrast ratio for one thing << what i miss most about crts, believe it or not, is the shade.
mircea_popescu: a crt you can adjust to be as unluminous as you'd like. a lcd, no. has a minimum.
decimation: asciilifeform: would not want to breathe that smoke...
decimation: mircea_popescu: yeah a well-known defect of lcds. supposedly the new led-based displays will overcome this
mircea_popescu: i still have perfect vision, after decades with computors. i credit : a) low monitors and b) large fonts.
mircea_popescu: prolly with some more rare earths nobody ever heard of and thatdon't really exist
assbot: So you think you're going to start a Bitcoin business, right?
mircea_popescu: decimation: a good sweet watermelon is one of the pleasures of the end of summer << better if it comes with a pair of black girls.
decimation: I miss the little wire shadows on my old trinitron
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: that fellow grew a 15kg watermelon. << Grandpa wasted soil this year on 215 lb-is pumpkin
mircea_popescu: chalbersma: So what's next on this P2Pool server? << oblivion, quite likely.
assbot: Display Technology Shoot-Out Part I
BingoBoingo: A great number of groundhogs died for it though.
decimation: lcds have gotten better, just about 3 times worse than a trinitron crt (in its prime) in contrast
RagnarDanneskjol: mircea_popescu - he went to bed - was asking me how to proceed, but I was unavail. I'll invite him again tomorrow
decimation: I suspect that trinitrons are still in use for medical applications where resolution and contrast are critical
mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol honestly, may be overkill for this task. it's more of a small potatoes sort of thing to allow some eager kid to get his feet wet and get some ratings
mircea_popescu: than for someone to try and senior developer all over it
decimation: ben_vulpes: yeah you are right the resolution on modern lcds is 'better'
mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol i guess that may explain the vague approach. alrighty, we talk more tomorro or w/e, see what he wants to do.
decimation: I suppose for the paupers who just need a screen cheap crt is cheaper than lcd
mircea_popescu: dub: what the fuck is this net slowdown shit << you broke it, you buy it.
mircea_popescu: how the fuck are you going to find virginal trinitrons, haven't been made for two decades
decimation: one that was 'new in box' forgotten in some attic?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11700 @ 0.00076902 = 8.9975 BTC [+]
dub: mircea_popescu: I saw an ad on bitcoinity and wtfd
dub: appears to be some goog propaganda
mircea_popescu: you don't understand asciilifeform. europe sits on a lake of wine the size of michigan
BingoBoingo: And nao you're going to tell me Agent Broachwala loves the Jewish state in the Levant....
KODE_YETI: <upme_boolcrap> auxiliary wives << redundancy
BingoBoingo: Today canned commenters called Ferguson protesters terrorists
KODE_YETI: asciilifeform: obtain and install << lolya and maintain
assbot: RadiForce GX540 | EIZO
decimation: well, I don't deny that resolution is important too
decimation: but it seems that our 'upgraded' lcd displays lack what we had in the past
BingoBoingo: WHY HAS NO ONE ELSE TOLD STORIED ABOUT FBI???
BingoBoingo: KODE_YETI: I have a masters degree in Library Science. This is not cursed. This is totally fucked by American Standards.
KODE_YETI: oh shit ozbot is totally still online
assbot: Logged on 22-08-2014 02:36:18; asciilifeform: 'The smell of diborane is known to a few experimenters, but they cannot tell us what it is.'
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> (or drunken impostor. don't lose keys, people will wonder.) << This
KODE_YETI: <decimation> lol you dedicate one screen to emacs :) << i dedicate my largest screen to emacs
KODE_YETI: <decimation> so you 'emerge' once and then do everything else by hand? << asciilifeform u fukn metal
decimation: KODE_YETI: yeah my pinky is starting to ache
KODE_YETI: decimation: capslock remap on os x
KODE_YETI: the "command" key on this altop has a hole in its black coating due to meta use
KODE_YETI: BingoBoingo: i just run emacs on whatever, man
decimation: KODE_YETI: yeah but my pinky wants to hit shift instead of caps-lock, need to deactivate ctrl key
KODE_YETI: i only work when there are $CURRENCY_UNITS on the table
BingoBoingo: KODE_YETI: Sorry I'm working on being trans ethic for useful ethicities
decimation: maori will help you negotiate with the british
KODE_YETI: and i'm working on stumbling home. nite all!
assbot: Pai Mrire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
gribble: Error: "Knicker" is not a valid command.
BingoBoingo: <decimation> maori will help you negotiate with the british << Didn't you hear??? Moiety Starved. Scottish is NOT profitab le..
BingoBoingo: And I just passed 4 liters of fart gas right nao.
BingoBoingo: ;;rate RagnarDanneskjol -3 confusion, correctable. In the interim What the Fuck's Sake
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating for user RagnarDanneskjol has changed from 2 to -3.
BingoBoingo: RagnarDanneskjol: Just confusion between parties you've sold pool too and people you've offered to sell pool
BingoBoingo: No, You don't sell things. You sell people.
BingoBoingo: I think I understand, but I may misunderstand
BingoBoingo: That is incredibly likely. The world is fucked. California is falling off of the world.
RagnarDanneskjol: if you'll read the emails I copied you on I have been quite clear - and ask if any clarification is required...crickets
BingoBoingo: RagnarDanneskjol: I dunno that you aren't trustworthy, I apparently was lead though (prolly by bad actors) to believe though that you are much older than you are.
RagnarDanneskjol: I am 33. Have been a recruiter since I was 18. what the hell does that have to do with it
dub: A similar belief in the mystical power to avert bullets had earlier been reported among Islamic groups in Africa and Asia[7] and America, such as the Ghost Shirt Movement.
RagnarDanneskjol: BingoBoingo - You know for a fact I made efforts to gain better clarity between parties from our pm earlier. All the recruitment I have done for b-a has been out of the kindness of my heart (which is a lot btw in terms of time spent - well over 60 hrs)
dub: where these perchance, other primitave cultures faced with certain defeat in the face of a technilogically advanced imperial invasion
BingoBoingo: RagnarDanneskjol: Much of the present irrelevant doubt, as opposed to relevant doubt connects to harvest of this irrelevant shit\
dub: what do we do sahib? idk boss pray shiney sky rocks don't kil us
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of -1 for user BingoBoingo has been recorded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24550 @ 0.00076417 = 18.7604 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17800 @ 0.0007665 = 13.6437 BTC [+] {2}
KODE_YETI: and RagnarDanneskjol can't in2 dat variety
RagnarDanneskjol: erroneous in that the reasons cited have no basis in reality. but good point
fluffypony: ;:rate Apocalyptic -2832837297193912 just because drama
fluffypony: all compiles except gtest that explodes
punkman: I made a bitcent trading XMR, I r tradar nao!
punkman: fluffypony: there was some pool site that had XMR, but it linked to some bitmonero thing
punkman: what's with all these clones
fluffypony: bitmonero == monero, the guy that launched it wanted merged mining and other bullshit, the community voted against it, he tried to put it in anyway, so we forked it away from him into Monero
fluffypony: also because Monero = coin in Esperanto, so Bitmonero literally means Bitcoin
punkman: mining side looks like botnet heaven
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38300 @ 0.0007668 = 29.3684 BTC [+] {2}
fluffypony: punkman: indeed - although the GPU miners are starting to ramp up a bit
punkman: is it even 50% faster with GPU?
fluffypony: faster yes, but performance-per-watt is really how you want to measure it
punkman: right, aren't the CPUs better in that regard?
fluffypony: and in that respect CryptoNight achieves its stated goal of reducing the performance gap between CPUs, GPUs, and ASICs
fluffypony: we're not at the upper bound of GPU performance, although we're reasonably close
xmj: fluffypony: how are you getting along with the FreeBSD port? :)
fluffypony: xmj: it's done, it compiles and works, the only thing I'm fighting with are some stupid oddities in the testing code
punkman: are you the guy that funded that kid with the miner optimizations?
xmj: fluffypony: did you put it in net-p2p/bitmonero?
fluffypony: xmj: once I'm done fixing tests and I've committed the changes to master I will
fluffypony: oh punkman - are you talking about dga?
xmj goes back to fiddling with Subversion
xmj: ...and django, and uwsgi, and $crap
assbot: rpietila Altcoin Observer
fluffypony: "Note that GPUs *do* outperform CPUs, of course -- it's just that it's only a factor of two or three. Which is pretty remarkable. And an ASIC will likely outperform a GPU, but I'm guessing it will be in the ~5x better range, not huge."
xmj goes back to fiddling with stuff... f'realz
punkman: fluffypony: oooh, he was all like "back to school" and I assumed <20
fluffypony: oh well, even associate professors at CMU have to make money somehow :-P
punkman: fluffypony: was reading that blogpost again, got an idea. Someone should come up with quirky PoW, and manufacture a hardware miner before launching the coin. Then they slowly ramp up the hashrate, start selling the hardware when profits level off.
fluffypony: 90% of the time when there's a quirky PoW it's inevitably a scam
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23200 @ 0.0007622 = 17.683 BTC [-] {2}
fluffypony: ok so I'm trying to create the Makefile
fluffypony: and looking at Bitcoin's one it seems overly complex
fluffypony: I mean, the USE_GITHUB stuff means that I really only need 5 lines, and it builds out the box
xmj: do yourself a favor, use ports-mgmt/porttools
☟︎ xmj: it has port(1), which can do `port create`, and `port test`
xmj: it used to have port submit, but that died with GNATS and send-pr(1)
xmj: also, i maintain it, so if you find any bugs i can fix them on the fly...:p
fluffypony: so once it's created how will I submit it?
xmj: you create a shar like so:
xmj: cd /usr/ports/net-p2p
xmj: shar `find bitmonero` > bitmonero__$version.shar
xmj: and give it some description like [NEW PORT] net-p2p/bitmonero: [include COMMENT= from Makefile here]
xmj: once you're done with that you can assign it to me and i'll take it from there
xmj: before you submit, try `make check-plist` to see if there's anything missing in pkg-plist, and `make package` to see if there's anything that is in pkg-plist that's not actually built into the package
xmj: that's, like, the crashcourse in FreeBSD port maintainership. :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15972 @ 0.00076522 = 12.2221 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8828 @ 0.00076524 = 6.7555 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: I would very much enjoy reading Mircea Popescu's reply to the letter in this post:
http://t.co/MndDYtNb9w < you can imagine the SPANK!
xmj: fluffypony: how good will 30GHash/s butterfly labs ASICs work with bitmonero?
fluffypony: xmj: it won't at all, it's a different PoW
xmj: friend of mine's got a spare, doesn't know what to do with it
assbot: Zuger Internet-Unternehmer: Libertre Visionre aus Crypto Valley - Digital Nachrichten - NZZ.ch
xmj: that one points out johann gevers, south african digital crypto stuff entrepreneur
xmj: is he a name one should recognize?
fluffypony: if it's that guy then he's in Switzerland
fluffypony: the only guys in ZA that have done anything notable are the BitX guys, but meh
[]bot: Bet placed: 3.00640086 BTC for Yes on "Under 15% difficulty increase before 2015"
http://bitbet.us/bet/1032/ Odds: 97(Y):3(N) by coin, 97(Y):3(N) by weight. Total bet: 10.25130486 BTC. Current weight: 86,761.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.00076749 = 7.5214 BTC [+]
assbot: Video: JTAGulator introduction and demonstration | Dangerous Prototypes
assbot: Apple Just Uploaded A U2 Album To Your iPhone And iPad — And Seriously, WTF | TechCrunch
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9100 @ 0.00076749 = 6.9842 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo didja just drunkrate RagnarDanneskjol or what was that
mircea_popescu: dub: where these perchance, other primitave cultures faced with certain defeat in the face of a technilogically advanced imperial invasion << quite. just like the forum retards, the general response of the primitive mind to "o boy, this guy's so much better than you, better learn how to suck cock" is "lalala i can't hear anything"
mircea_popescu: punkman: I made a bitcent trading XMR, I r tradar nao! << dare i ask what xmr is or would that spoil the whole trader thing.
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 471.6, Best ask: 472.42, Bid-ask spread: 0.82000, Last trade: 472.45, 24 hour volume: 9612.17705410, 24 hour low: 470.1, 24 hour high: 491.0, 24 hour vwap: 481.983602007
punkman: mircea_popescu: that monero thing
mircea_popescu: fluffypony: ASIC will likely outperform a GPU, but I'm guessing it will be in the ~5x better range, not huge. << if this is per watt, wouldn't it be quite huge ?
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: not for CryptoNight, no
dub: mircea_popescu: there's also the problem of motivating a guy holding a stick to charge at muskets
mircea_popescu: what i mean is, i'm a kid with a computer, i have to pay $200 for a new video card, and each watt gives me 1 thing. this other kid pays $500 for a consumer asic, each watt gives him... 5 things. the price of a thing will reflect this, going to ~1/4 the price of a watt, making me able to buy a lot more things for my $200 directly than i'd get mining ?
mircea_popescu: which explains exactly the adaptive value of idiocy in large groups.
mircea_popescu: that's the problem with the human species : that because we're monkeys, which means we use young men as basically building material
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: yes - but that's a capex cost, we're discussing the opex cost. At some point in the future when there actually are ASICs I suppose a ratio could be shown that includes the amortised cost of the hardware over time or something
punkman: aren't there plenty off-the-shelf hardware AES implementations?
mircea_popescu: fluffypony but my point here is as to market price, which really rarely reflects opex over capex
fluffypony: punkman: it's not the only thing it uses
mircea_popescu: i mean don't get me wrong, active experimental research in "o yeah, those asics are that cool ?" is quite valuable and a good use of one's time.
mircea_popescu: and i guess if 5x is the best so far then it's the best so far, and that's what it is
mircea_popescu: but i would have suspected 1.5x ish is more the range where it could be borne economically
assbot: Dropbox - cryptonight_tmp.pdf
fluffypony: if you're really interested in the inner workings
mircea_popescu: (this based on history of human tech, the speed of difussion of tech inovations as a function of their added efficiency. for instance the iron plow was about 7-8x more efficient than the shit it replaced, and it took over practically in the same generation. meanwhile longbows were not 2x more effectual over cataphracts, and they took about a century to take over)
assbot: CryptoNote currency forking guide
mircea_popescu: "It is designed to have zero commercial value since its genesis block is replaced every 2 months." this is a pretty good way to do it, actually.
jurov: with the friend's miner i mean
mircea_popescu: "This coin's enthusiasts contribute to the applied aspects of the CryptoNote technology. It has been launched as a fork of Bytecoin in April 2014. Bitmonero/Monero was subject to a quarrel among the community members on the choice of name. Nevertheless, its contribution is valuable to CryptoNote’s popularization. Moreover, it has the fastest block generation speed of 1 minute."
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you feel like reading up on all this crap and produce a summary ? but i mean a good one, like a disertation level thing.
mircea_popescu: " but assuming you accept its technical tradeoffs (slow block verification leading to increased susceptibility to block-flooding DoS attacks, in favor of a balance between CPU, GPU, and ASICs)" << stuff like that sounds like a total ouch.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony is your 5x estimate arrived at through some process or just taken from dga ?
fluffypony: the block flooding DoS attack doesn't work with Monero, at least not that we've been able to simulate
fluffypony: it's too aggressive in its consensus code
fluffypony: it graylists peers that try submit a bad block
fluffypony: the point of the DoS is to burn CPU cycles and tie up the CPU of a peer
mircea_popescu: dos is dos, as long as you can't use a service because of a 3rd party it's a denial of service.
fluffypony: if you just want to DDoS them from a bandwidth perspective there are easier ways like LOIC
fluffypony: well that's what I'm saying - the block flooding DoS doesn't work
fluffypony: you can't reconnect as a new IP fast enough
fluffypony: when I graylist you then you have to reconnect to me from a new peer and submit a bad block
mircea_popescu: can i craft blocks and announce them so that the entire fucking network ends up graylisting each other
jurov: mircea_popescu: so you send bad block to everyone at once, yes?
fluffypony: in the 0.03 seconds it takes the peer to verify the block you won't even have completed the handshake to send another block
mircea_popescu: " technical tradeoffs (slow block verification leading to increased susceptibility to block-flooding DoS attacks"
jurov: everyone is DoSed for 0.03 seconds and you're graylisted
mircea_popescu: fluffypony so are you basically saying he's just talking nonsense ?
fluffypony: no, we theorised that the attack was possible
jurov: fluffypony: what about ipv6? practically unlimited number of addresses
mircea_popescu: fluffypony ok, so if we accept this avenue exists, then a blacklisting scheme would not logically be expected to resolve it, just move the problem.
mircea_popescu: this is a purely logical approach, i have nfi of how it practically works
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: well Bitcoin's solution to the problem is to use SHA2
mircea_popescu: so basically you're saying the technical tradeoff in question isn' treally trading anything worth the menton.
mircea_popescu: i can arrive at a formulation of what the op thinks that i can integrate, it just takes an op that can answer questions for long enough :D
fluffypony: sometimes there is even pronz in the channel
fluffypony: and indian girls looking for free flight tickets
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19500 @ 0.00076799 = 14.9758 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Judy Garland: Lions and tigers and bears! Oh my! (The Wizard Of Oz, 1939) - YouTube
mircea_popescu: lions in the fucking forest. huzzah for all teh lernin'.
mircea_popescu: anyway this dga fellow should be here. someone invite him
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.19301957 = 0.9651 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Logged on 11-09-2014 10:10:37; xmj: do yourself a favor, use ports-mgmt/porttools
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 6 @ 0.194815 = 1.1689 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.19703837 = 0.9852 BTC [+] {5}
fluffypony: nubbins`: at least they're being useful and helping with cleaning
assbot: imgur: the simple image sharer
nubbins`: what's the word for when something is made to look like a human?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12650 @ 0.00076749 = 9.7087 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: o hay beautyon_ ! Le never fails to unintentionally entertain, but really, that's one you should prolly blog.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11593 @ 0.00076749 = 8.8975 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.199 = 0.796 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.22 = 0.88 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.2010101 = 0.603 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 47 @ 0.19315992 = 9.0785 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: kolinko +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0
kolinko: I founded Orisi two months ago (orisi.org) - it's a framework for building smart contracts
mircea_popescu: if you prove that i'll rate you, then you can self voice
kolinko: cool, will do that in a few minutes
kolinko: and I'm thinking of building a bitcoin smart contract for put/call options
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.2319997 = 0.696 BTC [-]
kolinko: (the idea is that a smart contract would be protected by a set of trustworthy individuals - no reliance on a single point of failure)
assbot: MPOE, February 2014 Statement pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: and when you're done with that, to put things in perspective for you, mpex carried about 1mn total btc worth of options over a coupla years.
mircea_popescu: a "single point of failure" is a trustworthy individual by definition anyway.
kolinko: mircea_popescu - confirmation that I'm the appcodes kolinko: twitter.com/kolinko
gribble: Error: 'appcodes' is not a valid integer.
gribble: Rating entry successful. Your rating of 1 for user kolinko has been recorded.
kolinko: mircea: I'll read the misc in a sec. as for your volume - I know it well - I'm your user since 2012 iirc
kolinko: the idea for the distributed contract was that if I want to build a business that relies on options, such a business shouldn't rely on a single individual/company
mircea_popescu: the problem with this approach is that if they're to be trusted they're sops by definition, and vice-versa.
kolinko: well, but if we had a panel of 15 trustworthy individuals, with a consensus of more than 50% of them required to release the fund
mircea_popescu: sybil attacks, and why would they be arsed to care about your needs.
mircea_popescu: these aren't simple problems, and they're unsimple for fundamental reasons, it's not a matter of implementation.
mircea_popescu: circle cvadrature is not a question of "get better draing tools"
kolinko: well, sybil attack is really only a problem in systems that rely on anonymous parties
kolinko: as for why would be they arsed - for provision/payment of course
jurov: lol how would panel of 15 trustworthy individuals come up with bitcoin vwap to be used for option exercises?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6683 @ 0.00076749 = 5.1291 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: you are wrong in the first. sybil attacks are a problem on all systems that rely on identity to any degree.
kolinko: the same way it happens now with centralised systems?
mircea_popescu: and the arsed problem is not something to brush aside. the better your sybil protection, the more expensive their pointless expense.
jurov: kolinko it currently does not happen, that's the problem
kolinko: jurov: the idea is that you agree on an algorithm beforehand, and everyone uses the same one
mircea_popescu: anyway, sybil attacks are specifically not a problem in anon systems. if you go for a romp in a gay cinema, to be fucked by a random man, it makes no difference to you who fucks you, so you can't be sybil'd by definition.
mircea_popescu: now, if you want to go back and get diddled by THE SAME GUY AS LAST TIME, you're in for it.
kolinko: what I meant is - if you have a system of 15 parties, each one of them signing messages with their own gpg keys, that can be quite secure against the sybil attack. the attacker would have to steal keys of 8 independent parties.
mircea_popescu: people tend to easily forget what identity means. here it is : =. every time you're using an equality sign, numerical, logical or otherwise you're relying on identity. cuz that's what it is.
kolinko: collution between parties is another matter of course
mircea_popescu: what if one wants to join ? were they 8 at some point ? 6 ?
mircea_popescu: kolinko if you have a process to go from 1 party to two, then you have a sybil problem. and to have 15 you necessarily must have had that process.
mircea_popescu: this is fundamental mathematics we're discussing here.
kolinko: you can create the list of 15 all at once. people wouldn't trust the list because they saw it being created. they trust the list, because they can review it one by one, and see that all the individuals are indeed trustworthy
kolinko: in other words - you don't trust the list of 15 people because the list of 14 people said that you should trust it. you trust the list because you can see who's on it, and they look trustworthy.
ThickAsThieves: why are we making lists and giving things to 15 people? i guess i better read the logs, is this OT or something?
mircea_popescu: and anyway, if "you" create it then you're just counting from 1 to 15.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves nah, he's just trying to solve a fundamental problem through implementation and got blindsided by a theoretical exposition of it.
kolinko: you're nitpicking. what I meant is that it doesn't matter who created the list and how. what matters is whether the list really contains gpg keys of the people, and whether the people on the list want to participate
ThickAsThieves: decentralization as an ideal doesnt really exist, it's just a degree of centralization
mircea_popescu: but this also happens to be the definition of a sybil vulnerability.
kolinko: well, every system is breakable. it's just a question of probability
mircea_popescu: hence my comment about them being arsed to put up with the cost of the defense.
mircea_popescu: and for that matter : the spf system is not breakable.
mircea_popescu: this is the main advantage of an overlord that the decentralize fanboys tend to ignore. if you have a good overlord, the system is unbreakable period.
kolinko: the problem is that the overlord can disappear at any time
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves but see, if you delete the program, you can't say you've broken the code.
mircea_popescu: a system that either works as intended or not at all is the holy grail of unbreakability.
mircea_popescu: well it's reasonably unclear what we're actually discussing.
kolinko: as for people being bothered into doing this - it's a valid question, but one that can only be answered by trying it in practice
ThickAsThieves: for me, arguing against centralization as a broad value is silly
mircea_popescu: nah, it can actually be answered in theory too. just, it gets esoteric quickly.
kolinko: what I'm really trying to figure out is whether people would be willing to try such a system
ThickAsThieves: people will try anything if youre wearing the right clothes
mircea_popescu: imo the avenue to this standardisation is, once moloko delivers the registrar of deeds, and if indeed we want to do a lot of option trade,
mircea_popescu: it'll just work from there relying on the wot and that.
mircea_popescu: but really, there doesn't seem to be that much demand for options once the darkpool and bitbet respectively take the slack.
ThickAsThieves: so at first i was frustrated at this 1bTCXE trading challenge because basically what it is is they gave everyone a fake account with half BTC / half USD credits and people are set wild to trade the assets. However, there is no tie to the real market so it's mostly a psychological/economical experiment. In this case, is there theory on how such a market would play out?
The20YearIRCloud: mircea_popescu: re : keynesians - they still seem to be popular in the US. Alot worship at the temple
kolinko: let's say that I wanted to build a business that relies on options... a web wallet that maintains the users' bitcoin balance stable in relation to usd (e.g. I put $100 worth of btc into the wallet, and after a year I'm almost guaranteed to be able to withdraw $100, regardless of bitcoin price)
mircea_popescu: experience shows girl under 30 or so has a lot of trouble reeducating.
kolinko: such a business would require option trading on the backend. but how could it trade options securely, as of today?
The20YearIRCloud: kol - it wouldn't be hard as long as you had a option to withdraw the USD
The20YearIRCloud: We've kind of looked at something like that, but offering USD denominated bonds sold via bitcoin
mircea_popescu: or i guess by trading the x.eur delivered future, if you can actually take delivery.
kolinko: bitbet is centralised, and the business would have to rely on bitbet not failing, right?
mircea_popescu: all trade relies on your conterparty not running off. but yes.
kolinko: otc is hard to do automatically/hard to scale, or am I wrong?
mircea_popescu: los_pantalones bitbet is seriously not that expensive. 1% + time value.
kolinko: some good ideas here, thanks :)
jurov: kolinko we did not solve the exercise price yet (which was mpoe's undoing)
mircea_popescu: los_pantalones the eur future is actually even cheaper, arguably.
assbot: #bitcoin-assets +m pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: course doing a synth option on a future is fucking tricky.
jurov: how are these 15 people work on untrustworthy data from exchanges?
mircea_popescu: jurov honestly, if you actually had 15 people that were there assembled for merit, not just random derpage
jurov: regardless of you using bitbet or otc
kolinko: well, the most expensive variant would be to rely on humans
mircea_popescu: the most expensive variant is to get actual sex and actual food.
kolinko: i.e. each of the 15 operators provides the btc price, and the average is chosen after throwing away the extremes
jurov: yes, if these people can back the fixed price then it would go well
jurov: but then that's different thing than some deciding oracle
mircea_popescu: the thing that annoys me most about contemporaneity is that somehow it got convinced nothing pre ww2 ever happened. nfi why. so many excellent implementations of good solutions seem to just vanish in the general knowledge.
kolinko: it's still more secure than trusting a single party to provide the price, isn't it?
mircea_popescu: like you knolw, two girls are a better fuck than just one. provided they're not insane.
mats_cd03: kolinko: funny enough, thats how LIBOR was pegged. didya catch how LIBOR ended up rigged?
kolinko: :) well, to really break the system you'd need 8 of 15 conspire without the other 7 discovering that
mircea_popescu: kolinko no. the system can break itself, too. it doesn't need a mustachioed antropomorphised enemy.
mats_cd03: what is with you and this magic 15 number. i don't get it
kolinko: mats_cd03 didn't know about that. any link to the story? (or I can google)
kolinko: if you have 100 nobody will be bother to independently verify the list. 5 is too few. also, 15 is a technical limit - the max number of sigs for bitcoin multisig wallet is 15
mats_cd03: why not 11. come on, it works for the judicial system in the US!
mircea_popescu: "o i know, instead of specifying this "hairball" we keep blaming on satoshi... how about we add... MORE MAGIC NUMBERS!!11"
jurov: kolinko again..these 15 say "the price at time T is P becuase.. some bullshit"
jurov: 1000s worth of option exercise based on that
mircea_popescu: srsly, the "multisig" thing has an arbitrary 15 limit ?
jurov: now you think the price was not fair
kolinko: mircea: 15 or 16. would have to check it again. but yeah, seriously
mats_cd03 has forgotten all his American Constitutional Law, even basics
mircea_popescu: kolinko shame on you for seriously thinking of pushing this crap downstream, seriously now.
mircea_popescu: "the limit some idiots put in is 15 so now i'm going to make it part of my brain" ? what is wrong with you!
kolinko: I'm not saying this is the best possible solution, only that it might be the most practical one
mircea_popescu: code in such a way you won't be ashamed to show what you've written to your kids or the woman that may potentially carry them.
mats_cd03: tell me why i would trust even 8 of 15 folks in this system
mats_cd03: and don't fucking say its because there are 15 of them.
kolinko: mats: you'd check the list one by one, and you'd determine that each one of them seems reasonable
kolinko: and that all of them are quite unlikely to collude
punkman: if only we had 14 spare MPs sitting around
mats_cd03: unless i have a handler that knows where they live, who their friends are, where their assets are kept, trusting that many individuals seems a tricky proposition. trusting just one is hard enough
kolinko: no trust in the central authority / list creator. you'd see some folks with a high WoT rating, some bitcointalk hero members, some known businesspeople, and of course 8 of them would be us senators.
kolinko: :) oh come on, you know what I mean
punkman: stepping up the troll game?
mircea_popescu: punkman barney frank, of "i fuck little boys" fame, comes to mind
mircea_popescu: after all, he recently wrote a mega-piece of us trollery didn't he.
mats_cd03: i can't tell if you're trolling anymore
kolinko: you wouldn't really need to trust them to handle funds, just for them to be unable to conspire with eachother
RagnarDanneskjol: better to go with british monarchy - at least you can find their parents if all goes to hell
mircea_popescu: no this is starting to sound better and better. i hope they make a mars lander.
mircea_popescu: could that nut with virgin be part of it too ? he is a businessman, after a fashion.
mircea_popescu: he knows how to make a small fortune out of things, provided he has a large one to start with.
kolinko: it's not about creating a system that's impossible to cheat, it's about creating a system that's too hard to cheat
jurov: i'd vouch for assbot to be included
jurov: the most trusted bot in the WoT
mircea_popescu: kolinko you're so far making a system that's too hard not to laugh at.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 8 @ 0.24218749 = 1.9375 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: los_pantalones let me guess, the situation is that calls you don't really know how to price and so don't really want to sell and puts you can price perfectly well and nobody can afford ?
assbot: GavinTech: Bit-thereum
kolinko: (a proof by authority: yay! )
mircea_popescu: well gavin doesn't enjoy much of a reputation for a thinker around here, but let's see.
mats_cd03: b-b-but, my brain work g-g-good...
mod6: t-t-t-today Junior!
mircea_popescu: meh. guy's just jotting down random thoughts. they are pretty broken, but can't judge one on that. anyway.
assbot: SNAP! - World in my Hands - YouTube
mircea_popescu: anyway, ThickAsThieves The Strategy of Conflict, old book.
mircea_popescu: doubt you read it, prolly exactly what you're looking for re the btcxe thing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7200 @ 0.00076808 = 5.5302 BTC [+]
mats_cd03: not to be a douchebag, or anything, kolinko, but i am reminded of this American serial Boardwalk Empire
mats_cd03: main character, an old fuck named Nucky, says to a useless subordinate
mats_cd03: 'Shut the fuck up Donny, you're out of your element.'
kolinko: I totally am, that's why I came to you guys to talk and learn
kolinko: "Sucking at something is the first step to becoming sorta good at something" -- Jake The Dog
mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol o hey nice, i had no idea it's floating around
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Drunk rating, he tripped the paranoia alarms
mircea_popescu: mats_cd03 he has a point, look at all the great discussion he caused.
mats_cd03: oh wait... i think i'm referencing the wrong thing actually. seppeku.
mircea_popescu: thing is when you rate, you force everyone to evaluate things. some people precache, and do it on the spot, some others will do it over time.
mircea_popescu: consider the discussion with rithm re guruvan earlier.
mod6: discussion is good, reading ~900 days of logs is probably a pre-requisite
mod6: lol. can't finish until you start :)
mircea_popescu: actually it's not even 900, only about 500 or so. logs start last year in spring.
mircea_popescu: the chan is old enough to have had nefario derping et all, but im not sure that's avail on website
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27894 @ 0.00076811 = 21.4257 BTC [+] {2}
gribble: nefario was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 1 year, 50 weeks, 1 day, 19 hours, 25 minutes, and 0 seconds ago: <nefario> Those assets are not listed or traded anymore
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 11 @ 0.24645726 = 2.711 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: A Whirlwind Tutorial on Creating Really Teensy ELF Executables for Linux
assbot: Prime Number Hide-and-Seek: How the RSA Cipher Works
kolinko: (what's the etiquette if I'm going afk? !down to assbot ? )
mats_cd03: good timing, now i feel like an asshole.
mats_cd03: for anyone interested in .mil films or trashcanistan, restrepo + korengal are excellent and worth watching
xmj: fluffypony: progress is going well, i suppose?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25282 @ 0.00076769 = 19.4087 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 976 @ 0.00076719 = 0.7488 BTC [-] {2}
fluffypony: xmj: had to pause it to do other stuff, will pick it up again tomorrow
fluffypony: but at least it compiles and runs from github
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27700 @ 0.00076812 = 21.2769 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: <+mircea_popescu> kolinko no. the system can break itself, too. it doesn't need a mustachioed antropomorphised enemy. /// glad to see you say so, it's a point often missed in many circumstances. for example, some want to paint USG as a hyper conspiracy and assume all its evil/scammy actions are fully intentional. More likely, it just evolved to be a broken shit in all corners of its
ThickAsThieves: house, nurturing powers like overgrown weeds that now appear to make up the whole lawn.
ThickAsThieves: <+punkman> if only we had 14 spare MPs sitting around /// oh lord!
assbot: X-Class Solar Flare Coming Friday - Slashdot
jurov puts on his tinfoil hat
ThickAsThieves: <+mircea_popescu> anyway, ThickAsThieves The Strategy of Conflict, old book. /// will check it out
mircea_popescu: fun fact : living in argentina confers a lot of immunity to flares :D
gribble: Current Blocks: 320167 | Current Difficulty: 2.7428630902257874E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 320543 | Next Difficulty In: 376 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 2 days, 11 hours, 45 minutes, and 41 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 29233824168.3 | Estimated Percent Change: 6.58142
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.232 = 2.32 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Bastard Operator From Hell Official Archive
xmj: asciilifeform: BOFH excuse calendar fortune on terminal opening.
xmj: asciilifeform: fortune /usr/local/share/games/fortune/bofh
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 1.40997627 BTC to 15`381 shares, 9167 satoshi per share
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] [PAID] 7.33692344 BTC to 1`149`988 shares, 638 satoshi per share
assbot: Movie Ramble: Ilsa She Wolf of the SS.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 52 @ 0.25111536 = 13.058 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.269 = 0.538 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves buncha sexploitations of the 70s, they're all pretty much the same thing.
ThickAsThieves: get this: "CM was described as a "virtual company” by LTC-Global (and accordingly referred to as such in the CM Business Plan). However, as a matter of English law, CM may be considered a general partnership. If that is the case, then the 'shareholders' of CM - which includes yourself - would all be considered partners. As partners, they would all be jointly and severally liable for
ThickAsThieves: CM's debts, including the 'Bond'. It is therefore possible that 'bondholders' may seek to take legal action against CM's 'shareholders', including yourself, to seek to recover that debt. However, if 'bondholders' accept the restructure plan proposed below, that risk might be mitigated."
ThickAsThieves: it continues to say shareholders get to vote on this move, (not bondholders)
assbot: [BTC-TC] CIPHERMINE.B1 - a virtual corporate bond with a 22% fixed-fiat APR
mircea_popescu: that torturous pseudolegal interpretation has exactly no grounds to stand on.
mircea_popescu: isn't this the "uk busineswoman" of great repute that i "viciously attacked" for "no good reason" last year ?
mircea_popescu: maybe you could get his "woman of the year in buziness" trophy ?
mircea_popescu: or maybe the uk could be forced to pay for having swindled the general public with pointless "women too" bullshit ?
ThickAsThieves: i never intended to hold the bonds long term, it was just a risky trade. btct closed while in the process of selling em off...
mircea_popescu: herpy derp, make 1% ten times then lose it all on the 11th pass.
mircea_popescu: but people generally don't want to believe asshole "single points of failure", because decentralized wisdom tells them "it works just fine"
ThickAsThieves: i wonder if more loss was caused by gov influence to shut down btc exchsnges, than if they remainded open
ThickAsThieves: as in if bf and btct werent shut down by USG, the lie may have played out to less loss
ThickAsThieves: i suppose itd just be redistribution of whatever actuall btc were in the systems
ThickAsThieves: all i'm saying is if BTCT didnt close i woulda sold them shits!
punkman: passing the bad doesn't make it disappear
kolinko: quick question re: trusted data feeds. is the problem generally in the api/site potentially getting hacked, or the algorithm for a computation of one being suspectible to manipulation? what's the problem with deciding that the btc/usd price is an average of btc-e, bitstamp & kraken, each adjusted for volume?
punkman: kolinko: the problem is all three might misplace their decimal points
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.2301 = 0.6903 BTC [-] {2}
ThickAsThieves: you see glitched trade feeds in an exchange every few mos
kolinko: thick: but isn't that a matter of a better averaging algorithm construction? e.g. if one of the exchanges is far away, we're suspending the feed until situation resolves (would obviously need to be more elaborate)
mike_c: and what do you do when the biggest exchange goes apeshit and has a price that is 50% different than the others for weeks?
mike_c: oh, wait, this is what happenned
punkman: and the bot is still suspended
ThickAsThieves: any notable movement on any of the 4 or so top exchanges will cause movement on the rest
kolinko: a failsafe rule for removal that one exchange from the computation?
kolinko: or letting trusted humans solve the issue? or a requierement for both parties to figure out the agreement?
ThickAsThieves: people wanna do things like circuit-breakers, and curating the data somehow, it's all shit imo
punkman: kolinko, full circle back to OTC GPG contracts?
kolinko: arbitrage/human interventions work in the real world
mircea_popescu: <ThickAsThieves> i suppose itd just be redistribution of whatever actuall btc were in the systems << bingo.
mircea_popescu: idiots losing their btc ohldings is a net plus for society.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27800 @ 0.00076768 = 21.3415 BTC [-] {2}
ThickAsThieves: well, youre welcome society, for my earlier transgressions!
mircea_popescu: kolinko> quick question re: trusted data feeds what's the problem with deciding that << you know what wash trading is ?
xmj: KODE_YETI: you around yet?
kolinko: mircea_popescu: will go and read about it
mircea_popescu: the problem of trust is a very long and sensitive chain. creating a 99% functional chain still doesn't create a functional chain.
ThickAsThieves: <+mircea_popescu> you know what wash trading is ? /// still happens quite obviously in btc exchanges
mircea_popescu: as to trusted humans, read up on fixing, as a pricing procedure. it's been explained in the logs a year ago, too
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves and even without the major incentive of gaming a large options operation
ThickAsThieves: i watched these new chinese futures a lil and its basically being traded like btc, no real future sentiment at all
kolinko: ThickAsThieves: how is it heating up? where can I track news? (thx for answering all the basic questions)
mircea_popescu: we have hard currency, let them fail, what's the problem.
kolinko: arent those exchanges for kids with pocket change and fools?
nubbins`: kolinko remove the word "those"
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves i won't without a submissive government, and then it'd be btc/that fiat.
ThickAsThieves: i think part of the bfx shenanigans lie in how they display one decimal place for USD in orderbook, but allow orders to specify 2 places
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves anyway, if you manage to get through the hoops on davout's exchange you can practically trade the eur
nubbins`: probably the wrong crowd around for this, but any interest in a 2012-funded 25btc casascius coin w/ pgp docs?
ThickAsThieves: interested, sure, just not interested in insane premiums it probably comes with
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves afaik there's a liquidity bot, and im sure you can get better leverage elsewhere.
nubbins`: ThickAsThieves: a 25btc coin selling for 10btc? :0
nubbins`: nah, around 28-30 would be more realistic
assbot: Logged on 14-03-2014 20:49:27; asciilifeform: turns out that the instrument i proposed for raping casascius coins is available commercially:
ThickAsThieves: those bars and coins are like the best btc investment ever
ThickAsThieves: well, i think of the added force the impose to not sell your coins
☟︎ nubbins`: AM and casascius coins were both pretty yeasty investments
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.23013333 = 0.6904 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 35 @ 0.20150114 = 7.0525 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: i suppose in the end one can count the poroductive btc investments on a hand
mircea_popescu: i suppose satoshi dice too, in a marginal sorta sense "either you sold at a profit or held for no loss" sorta thing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26578 @ 0.0007671 = 20.388 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform suppose you run a casino, and i come and play with a dollar.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4272 @ 0.00076639 = 3.274 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Bank of England sees Bitcoin fraud risk, deflation danger| Reuters
nubbins`: ThickAsThieves: the edge you have to walk with casascius coins is btc value vs fiat value
ThickAsThieves: Around 60 percent of Bitcoin trading is against the Chinese yuan, 32 percent is against the dollar and 3 percent against the euro, the BoE said. /// see what wahsing does
nubbins`: so far the market has been completely ignoring fluctuations in exchange rates
ThickAsThieves: "A significant risk to digital currencies' sustained use (is) that they will not be able to compete on cost without degenerating ... to a monopoly miner, thereby ... exposing them to risk of system-wide fraud," the BoE said.
ThickAsThieves: i wonder if they considered mapping thay logic to themselves
nubbins`: actually, i can't think of any other examples where the value of something in btc steadily increases over time
TomServo: I've wondered about this too - what are the arguments against guns, jewelry, land?
assbot: Some are born to endless night.
TomServo: Doh, I missed the 'in btc' part - for shame.
ThickAsThieves: when i was a kid, the elder generation thought baseball cards were good investments
BingoBoingo: ThickAsThieves: Fuck you, Bo Jackson is an exemplar.
nubbins`: found a box of old hockey cards a couple weeks ago
nubbins`: i've got bobby hull's autograph on a vuarnet t-shirt!!
ThickAsThieves: the one i have at least, i think, i forget all the opeechee topps variant stuff
ThickAsThieves: i just checked my mtgox account balance, 0.12504189! Score!
nubbins`: sweet, let's spend it on pizza!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28947 @ 0.0007649 = 22.1416 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: The problem with Baseball cards was them emulated the utility of stamps too much, but without understanding why stamps got so expensive for the rarities
BingoBoingo: Stamps, mostly being a tool for money transmission
BingoBoingo: Stamps were basically pre-internet Bitcoin
ThickAsThieves: all i really remember about the scene was the famous inverted jenny
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61450 @ 0.00076401 = 46.9484 BTC [-] {3}
gribble: #21426 Thu Sep 11 13:50:24 2014 nubbins` SELL 1.0 Radiohead autographed band photo @ 0 BTC (Signed by all members. PM offers. Includes original packaging & letter from W.A.S.T.E.)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 900 @ 0.00060608 = 0.5455 BTC [-] {11}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 10 @ 0.19710999 = 1.9711 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: Spain Cracks Down on Bitcoin Gambling Loopholes
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 7 @ 0.197 = 1.379 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.19702 = 0.9851 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Exchange algorithm Coinffeine/coinffeine Wiki GitHub
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70800 @ 0.00076836 = 54.3999 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Logged on 30-06-2014 05:21:05; asciilifeform: idea was, you send, e.g. some btc to addr A, in n parcels. low bits of the parcels encode, e.g. an ltc address. to which the corresponding amount of ltc is then sent.
punkman: I don't see the purpose of their algorithm
assbot: Judge wont release surveillance video of courthouse cop killing defendant | Ars Technica
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1500 @ 0.00059611 = 0.8942 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.197 = 0.985 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 11 @ 0.197 = 2.167 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 93 @ 0.19413978 = 18.055 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1000 @ 0.00058156 = 0.5816 BTC [-] {29}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1000 @ 0.00056001 = 0.56 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: Around 60 percent of Bitcoin trading is against the Chinese yuan, 32 percent is against the dollar and 3 percent against the euro, the BoE said. /// see what wahsing does << "we read something on a tripod homepage and now believe this is the world"
mircea_popescu: "Citing security concerns, a Utah federal judge is refusing to release courthouse surveillance footage that captured a US marshal killing a defendant during a gang-related trial.
mircea_popescu: The tape's existence, first reported by The Salt Lake Tribune Wednesday, came to public light five months after federal authorities who watched the tape cleared the marshal of wronging. "
mircea_popescu: lmao security concerns indeed. "if anyone not working for the usg found out what we do in thhis here so called "courthouse" they'd prolly set us all on fire"
mircea_popescu: RagnarDanneskjol there's really no need for all these emails.
mircea_popescu: i do it all the time. "he's x y z looking to k". not really that big a deal.
mircea_popescu: coupla lines should be enough, it's what anyone ever reads anyway.
RagnarDanneskjol: mircea_popescu - to be clear, do you want me to dump all that unit testing data to the logs? or just leave it alone and hope it comes out right?
mircea_popescu: if it;s worth discussing it goes here. if it is not, it is not.
mircea_popescu: and if you use it like a dump in your general course of business, you're prolly fucking yourself over and not even realise it.
RagnarDanneskjol: i only communicate that which is critical as concisely as possible. sorry, dont know any other hiring managers using irc, so
RagnarDanneskjol: it just seems the unit tests for the bot would be considered flooding the channel
assbot: Emanuel Cleaver Molotov cocktail: Black Missouri congressman's office targeted.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10200 @ 0.00076697 = 7.8231 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4805 @ 0.00076697 = 3.6853 BTC [-]
empyex: FabianB: Proxies: mpex.ws mpex.bz mpex.co mpex.biz mpex.coinbr.com Current MPEx GPG-Key-ID: 02DD2D91
empyex: FabianB: MPEx-Status: mpex.ws (1079 milliseconds), mpex.bz (7600 milliseconds), mpex.co (976 milliseconds), mpex.biz (1001 milliseconds), mpex.coinbr.com (982 milliseconds)
empyex: FabianB: Health-Indicators: Homepage: √ MK Depth JSON: √ VWAP JSON: √
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10850 @ 0.00076452 = 8.295 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.17717499 = 0.7087 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5100 @ 0.00076697 = 3.9115 BTC [+]
assbot: CBC Warns Canadians of "US Law Enforcement Money Extortion Program" - Slashdot
assbot: Loper OS » Thumbs Down for Clojure
assbot: American shakedown: Police won't charge you, but they'll grab your money - World - CBC News
mircea_popescu: The CBC is warning Canadians about a U.S. program where America law enforcement officers — from federal agents to state troopers right down to sheriffs in one-street backwaters — are operating a vast, co-ordinated scheme to grab as much of the public's cash as they can through seizure laws.
assbot: Black Asphalt - Logan County Sheriff's Department:
chalbersma: I wish that that description was overstating it.
mircea_popescu: "When I go on a road trip I always carry enough cash to buy gas to get to my destination should my credit card stop working.
mircea_popescu: I got pulled over in Nebraska and when I was getting my license out of my wallet the officer saw a $100 bill in there and ended up confiscating the $400 I had on me as suspected drug money without ever arresting me or even charging me with a crime.
mircea_popescu: I got a receipt and an affidavit indicating the amount seized and why. I petitioned the court for the return of my money and the court denied me saying that possession of that much cash constituted probable cause of drug activity and that I should be happy not to be in jail for drugs."
assbot: Cops using controversial database to identify search and seizure targets
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> are us folk really that poor ? << Cash averse. Love their plastic
assbot: Police training firms teaching helps fuel rise in cash seizures on U.S. highways | The Washington Post
mircea_popescu: well, being a 3rd world shithole is pretty bad, but not knowing it is arguably worse.
atcbot: No data returned from CoinMiner.net
atcbot: [PityThePool Hashrate]: 0.00 GH/s [iSpace Pool Hashrate]: 1.09 TH/s
atcbot: [ATC Diff] Current Diff: 1878190.93 Est. Next Diff: 285796.47 in 1239 blocks (#46368) Est. % Change: -84.78
assbot: ESPN.com: Page 2 : Fear & Loathing in America
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5950 @ 0.00076425 = 4.5473 BTC [-]
mike_c: ThickAsThieves: by the way, i did some rounds of correlation analysis. s.mpoe continues to defy explanation. there is certainly no correlation to the exchange rate.
mircea_popescu: mike_c there's always ~some~ correlation. since you did the math anyway, what is it ?
mike_c: i don't know about stand alone, but it is when combined with the exchange rate in any fashion.
mike_c: looking at any reasonable timeframe it is nothing. I tried to force it. took just the last few months, removed some of the recent dip/spikes, and got it up to 0.5
mike_c: tea leaves came up empty
mike_c: the only surprise to me was just how low the correlation was.
assbot: Logged on 11-09-2014 22:54:38; hyhycaptain: ns identify 1DmtGhb*^&!
mircea_popescu: also separated pws are shitty. no <numbers><letters><symbols> crap.
assbot: Russia and the Menace of Unreality - The Atlantic
xmj: jurov: i've seen it before
xmj: jurov: Goebbels would be SO fucking proud.
xmj: or maybe not; they're slavs.
jurov: that's how asciilifeform's conquest works
jurov: asciilifeform but it's true
jurov: i see here that horrible disinfo leaking from the east
jurov: such as, EU supposedly enforcing a "juvenile justice"
mircea_popescu: assbot> Russia and the Menace of Unreality - The Atlantic << gotta love the english agitprop, this entire "the gauls don't really exist so clearly they couldn't be at the gates" thing.
jurov: that will take kids away from heteros and give them to queers
jurov: but whole juvenile justice story is fabricated
mircea_popescu: jurov it's only nonsense in the form presented. otherwise, the eu does believe it has jurisdiction over children above and beyond that of the family.
mircea_popescu: of course it'd fly along with whatever the french, the english and so forth figure out.
jurov: of course that is how RT works
jurov: takes a grain of EU social care taking children
jurov: mixes it with fear from queers adpting children
jurov: and now the nocsense is suddenly presented as fact and i have to convince half of my facebook friends
jurov: that such "juvenile justice" does not exist
mircea_popescu: but yes it does exist : the eu state will, under a multitude of pretexts, steal children.
jurov: i indeed have a hard time with your insistence that everything out there is an overactive imagination of western journos
jurov: while putin never lied and never will
mircea_popescu: how did i end up giving ~that~ impression for crying out loud.
jurov: you dismissed is as mere agitprop
xmj: jurov: I'm ruthless about russian supporters
mircea_popescu: but it's not what i said. i merely remarked on a particular mental complex, wherein the western agitprop calls things they don't like and can't derride "inexistent" a certain way
mircea_popescu: lemme model this. suppose we go out for a picnic, and suppose we're there with some girls, and suppose a cow comes and shits in our cornmeal pot. and suppose one of the girls goes "oh my!"
mircea_popescu: me mocking her for the "oh my" lulz doesn't mean i am in favour of cattle shitting in cookpots.
jurov: anyhow. you both be glad you're living in countries divided by distance and language (more or less) from this shit
jurov: slovakia is mentioned there for a reason
mircea_popescu: jurov you will note in my case this is not happenstance.
xmj: I'm glad I'm living in a country who has a couple of german tornados stationed in it
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dude imagine for the sake of science fiction, a putin that didn't lie. like, ever. he'd be spotless like warm milk foam.
mircea_popescu: they'd prolly flay him alive just for the cognitive dissonance
mircea_popescu: popes don't lie, they're just infallible and impeccable.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 1014 @ 0.00054999 = 0.5577 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: i was just venting my worries that this piece of world might not be safe again... obv mircea's lofty assessment "nah, agitprop" or ascii's urks hair splitting is not interesting to me,sorry
mircea_popescu: you're probably right, it's not looking all that good.
jurov: when public space is increasingly and inessantly inundated by conspirations
jurov: that won't end well
mircea_popescu: time to split, unless you somehow discover some passion for one side or the other and a desire to go to shooting practice.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's like asking girls aged 16ish to stop giggling. yeah, that's gonna happen
mircea_popescu: it's not their cunt asking for a tending that's driving the giggling behaviour.
ThickAsThieves: <+mike_c> tea leaves came up empty /// i guess i was probly only paying attention to price at the time, maybe that was the .5 zone, shortly after my comments it totally decoupled
mike_c: da fuck with that atlantic article. i tried it in 3 browsers and it crashed them all.
jurov: there's difference between indigenous conspirations like www.universe-people.com and stuff did by state media
jurov: and i'm done for today
mike_c: the atlantic is trying to steal my bitcoin
ThickAsThieves: i like that the putin drawing is a scanned bar napkin or sumth
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's more to this than just that. i've had an intern puit a bunch of trilema articles in reddit, across dozens of different subreddits. NONE stick. they're all "wrong", then the complainants get laughed out, then the matter dies.
mircea_popescu: there's a long and growing list of things you can do to a text to make it completely inaccessibl for the "right thinking" person.
mircea_popescu: i mean, just a certain tone is enough, subtle subjective positioning is enough
mircea_popescu: "this thing is written as if the soviet party isn't legitimate" < o noes and enough.
mircea_popescu: by now right thinkingness has become an extremely intricate, delicately balanced piece of work
mircea_popescu: i'm still reeling over the realisation that someone, somewhere, thinks im pro russian.
mircea_popescu: sucks for merlin, he who was here when each was born, and will be here to see them buried.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7195 @ 0.00076108 = 5.476 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, for what it's worth, in my mind the correct approach to this problem is radical, corrosive antiteflon.
mircea_popescu: the more people saying nigger and proposing rape as a solution to minute problems, the less effectual this teflon process is.
mircea_popescu: it only works in the first place because of a very narrow overton window achieved over decades of lazy prosperity.
mircea_popescu: giving in and being polite even to the slightest degree just feeds the nonsense.
mircea_popescu: in contemporary english, it is the duty of any thinking person to be as offensive as the context will carry.
mircea_popescu: anyway, it's why i carry a lot of sympathy for BingoBoingo's legal troubles.
mircea_popescu: seems to me he instinctively applied the correct solution from perhaps an untenable position
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves when you confront an organised enemy, your options are two. either beat him but preserve his tools, which locks you into ruling in his stead, or else beat him and destroy his tools, which locks you into rebuilding.
mircea_popescu: there's little worse fate than having to take over and continue using with the present tools.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> if correct solution could be applied from correct position << true.
ThickAsThieves: i'm not sure if i believe your ideal is more than fleetingly achieved
ThickAsThieves: fleeting is a lifetime for some, i guess that's good enough
mircea_popescu: the interesting thing here is that no longer is the city hall the seat of power. the irc channel is the seat of power.
mircea_popescu: which means long supressed passion will finally prevail, in a razing of city halls the world has never seen
mircea_popescu: the bloodiest massacre in human history, a million or so killed over a few weeks.
mircea_popescu: a million before the fiat inflation of human population, back when they still had hard people, and a limited supply worldwide