log
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trinque: !!up BigTexasBingo
deedbot: BigTexasBingo voiced for 30 minutes.
trinque: omg culture appropriation!!11!
BigTexasBingo: Gracias, while hacer poopoo, hade a day with a suburban girl for Thursday night
BigTexasBingo: Y lol at indiancandy's ourselfism
BigTexasBingo: Trinque nick on this device was set up for Houston airport
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/the-most-chauvinist-serene-order-of-the-holes-gloriouses/ << Trilema - The Most Chauvinist Serene Order Of The Holes Gloriouses
indiancandy1: i read ur peice on credit cards mp
indiancandy1: interesting
BigTexasBingo: Hecho poopoo, ciao
mircea_popescu: we are good!
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-17#1752737 << laundry is dry ; dishes are wet ; laundry is light, dishes are heavy in terms of dirt -- if you ever fish as much oil out of a shirt as out of a plate you oughta see a doctor. consequently laundry keeps better than dishes.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-17 20:57 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-17#1752726 << the part i dunget is , why is the '1 fork' scenario contemplated at all ? are washing machines a waste because 'whole cubometre, you say, for 1 sock' ? for instance asciilifeform has 0 problem filling regular-sized dishwasher in <1day , and that's with 3 meals and a crew of only 2 .
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-17#1752740 << so ? toenail painting just as much busywork.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-17 20:58 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-17#1752724 << unlike walking in fresh air, washing dishes by hand has 0 whatsoever to recommend it. it's busywork, plain and simple, like ru recruits painting snow white and grass green.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-17#1752745 << iq 100 is group 2, not group 3.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-17 21:01 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-17#1752721 << the 'errything roboticized, robo-cabbies driving robo-repairmen to their sites' item is an sv hallucination. none of these items exist, or threaten to , for so long as there are pipes and plumbers there is a role for iq100 folx
mircea_popescu: group 3 is "walmart grocery bagger", and no use for those.
mircea_popescu: !!up indiancandy1
deedbot: indiancandy1 voiced for 30 minutes.
indiancandy1: i read ur peice
indiancandy1: on credit cardsinteresting
mircea_popescu: which pence did you read ?
indiancandy1: how people trust creditcard
indiancandy1: and not crypto curncyy
mircea_popescu: link ?
indiancandy1: when its stil a digital wallet
indiancandy1: i dont have it i read it the other day
mircea_popescu: ic.
indiancandy1: yea
indiancandy1: digital wallets
indiancandy1: shino
indiancandy1: mp u must be very happy
mircea_popescu: whysasat ?
indiancandy1: coz
indiancandy1: the world is now learning about btc
indiancandy1: its evrywhere
indiancandy1: news
indiancandy1: radio
indiancandy1: evry1 is talkin bout it
indiancandy1: the price has sky rocketed
mircea_popescu: eh, what do i care about this world.
indiancandy1: i regret selling myne
indiancandy1: well ur geting richer
indiancandy1: im sure when u first got into it
indiancandy1: u didnt predict this
indiancandy1: or did u
mircea_popescu: of course i did.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-18#1752809 + http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-18#1752810 << insta-lol☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-18 00:27 mircea_popescu: group 3 is "walmart grocery bagger", and no use for those.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-18 00:28 mircea_popescu: !!up indiancandy1
mircea_popescu: :)
mircea_popescu: indiancandy1 o hey, remember when you didn't want to write on your tits, cuz "too little" ?
mircea_popescu: what was it, 0.1 btc ?
indiancandy1: exactly
indiancandy1: i sold the for 80 euro
indiancandy1: im si could be drinkin coffee with u
indiancandy1: sad*
indiancandy1: in argentina
indiancandy1: now im making 14k usd a month
indiancandy1: and getin taxed half
indiancandy1: shocking
indiancandy1: and then converting to pounds
indiancandy1: im left with 5k
indiancandy1: a month
indiancandy1: :(
mircea_popescu: !!up indiancandy1
deedbot: indiancandy1 voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: im not in argentina, i'm in costa rica.
indiancandy1: ohokay
indiancandy1: when u goin romania
indiancandy1: stop by
mircea_popescu: i dunno.
indiancandy1: london
mircea_popescu: eh, london blows.
indiancandy1: are ur fam in romania?
mircea_popescu: yeah
indiancandy1: bucha
indiancandy1: ?
mircea_popescu: nah, transylvania
indiancandy1: damn
indiancandy1: related to vladmire?
indiancandy1: wouldnt be suprised
mircea_popescu: lol. possibly...
indiancandy1: i knew it
mircea_popescu: o by the way, i checked out some indian films recently.
mircea_popescu: THEY SUCKED!
indiancandy1: fuck that
indiancandy1: fuck them
indiancandy1: i dont compromise
mircea_popescu: like, "3 idiots", you kjnow that ?
indiancandy1: i thought i could
indiancandy1: but i cant
indiancandy1: i cant do it
indiancandy1: s i left
indiancandy1: yea i wathed it
indiancandy1: long ago
indiancandy1: like it?
mircea_popescu: and who the fuck is that adam sandler wannabe Aamir Khan schmuck ?
indiancandy1: heard its a rip off though
indiancandy1: yea they riip off american movies
indiancandy1: and japanese
mircea_popescu: no, i didn't like it. it's fucking offensively terrible.
indiancandy1: and indianize it
mircea_popescu: so what do you work in for 15k a month ?
indiancandy1: cam girl
indiancandy1: its 14k
mircea_popescu: ah.
indiancandy1: usd
indiancandy1: but they take half man
indiancandy1: i swear
indiancandy1: it hurts
mircea_popescu: yes well.
indiancandy1: it is what it is
mircea_popescu: pimp gonna pimp.
mircea_popescu: !!key indiancandy1
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/a886215d072240c8d8632da8564f4d7daeea5571.asc
mircea_popescu: o hey.
mircea_popescu: did you see trinque made a bitcoin wallet now and everything ?
indiancandy1: i need to create a new id
indiancandy1: on here
indiancandy1: to join wot again
indiancandy1: and get new info
indiancandy1: so i dont need to getvoice al the time
mircea_popescu: what's wrong with that one ?
indiancandy1: shino said
indiancandy1: there is no other way
indiancandy1: i have to create a new 1
mircea_popescu: did you lose your key ?
indiancandy1: yea
mircea_popescu: dork.
indiancandy1: cant i reclaim?
mircea_popescu: nope.
indiancandy1: okay
indiancandy1: wellim gona creata new one
indiancandy1: it wil be
indiancandy1: ....
indiancandy1: do u kno my name
indiancandy1: lol
mircea_popescu: shakti something wasn't it ?
indiancandy1: sofia
indiancandy1: is my real name
indiancandy1: sofiababy works
mircea_popescu: you know what that means in teh original language ?
indiancandy1: wisdom
indiancandy1: im greek
indiancandy1: duh
mircea_popescu: o hey.
indiancandy1: philosophy baby
mircea_popescu: lol i see.
indiancandy1: no wonder im borderline genius
indiancandy1: loool
mircea_popescu: !!up da-gambl427
deedbot: da-gambl427 voiced for 30 minutes.
da-gambl427: ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--jYqzJErTI LRH IS LIVE NOW!! CALL 415-349-5666 #LRH EFNETrltagc: candi_lustt whaack lobbes deedbot robbinhood scriba yangwao shinohai manamex _whitelogger gribble mats mircea_popescu jurov asciilifeform lobbesbot davout Valfor spyked tb0t iangeker pete_dushenski punto barpu
mircea_popescu: lol
da-gambl427: ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--jYqzJErTI LRH IS LIVE NOW!! CALL 415-349-5666 #LRH EFNETwwbhkzuhim: barpub mod6 aegis _whitelogger Kev ang-st indiancandy1 iangeker jhvh1 ben_vulpes candi_lustt TomServo scriba deedbot ave1 kanzure hanbot RagnarDanneskjol a111 kjj trinque lobbes davout webbyz pete_dushenski mats lobbesbot tb0t spyked jurov gribble mircea_popescu manamex adla
da-gambl427: ▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄▄ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--jYqzJErTI LRH IS LIVE NOW!! CALL 415-349-5666 #LRH EFNETrlxpetmqpk: ben_vulpes punto manamex candi_lustt BingoBoingo ang-st jurov yangwao indiancandy1 scriba gribble davout pete_dushenski Cory asciilifeform tb0t lobbesbot trinque shinohai whaack Kev han
mircea_popescu: !!down da-gambl427
mircea_popescu: !~google da fuck is an lrh
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: What the fuck is Scientology ? : scientology - Reddit: <https://www.reddit.com/r/scientology/comments/31s3x3/what_the_fuck_is_scientology/>; Reporter Goes Ghetto "WHAT THE FUCK IS THAT" - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DgilNVgB19zM>; LRH pictures you've probably never seen before | Page 2 | Why We ...: (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: mmkay.
phf: "The l0de radio hour is a long-running live call-in show that irregularly broadcasts over the internet, and to pirate shortwave and FM stations. It is hosted by Lode Ray Dio, a gypsy hustler with a long history of fraud, grifting, and treason. The show is notable for its frequent cancellations, obscene and bizarre content, and a high rate of listener suicide."
mircea_popescu: not a bad fit, but the guy is going ass-backwards about it.
indiancandy1: whose on the
mircea_popescu: more of the same old http://trilema.com/2014/namecheap-goes-off-the-deep-end-anyone-know-a-decent-domain-registrar/ story of failure to cater to the elite in the blind quest to chase the nobodies.
phf: ought to be invitide™
indiancandy1: someone sent me the link
indiancandy1: who is it
mircea_popescu: phf hm ?
mircea_popescu: indiancandy1 rando spammer.
indiancandy1: gypsy?
phf: asciilifeform: will update all the thing, motherbored finally gave out on the main machine so taking some time to get my infrastructure in order
mircea_popescu: don't believe everything you read ; especially not online.
indiancandy1: k im gona create a new id
indiancandy1: on hereit wil be sofiababy
indiancandy1: how do i get a key again
indiancandy1: sorry
indiancandy1: dont hate me
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-15#1752014☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-15 17:04 mircea_popescu: http://www.eulorum.org/Account_Setup << ad-interim "how to set up a key" guide.
phf: this l0de show is now trolling all the people who showed up from the mass advertisement and raging in the youtube live stream section. i'm away from internet for one day, come back it's the same amount of shitshow
phf: meanwhile, homebrew, the mac os x package manager, finally pulled the final bate and switch. "build from source" option is now marked as "unsupported" (!!!) in the man pages, everything's being pulled using precompiled archives. building a non-trivial set of packages from source fails along the way with clearly misconfigured formulas. this is possibly of interest only to ben_vulpes (?)
phf: mircea_popescu: i was saying we should invite him, but i realized that was stupid as soon as i said it
mircea_popescu: he can consider self invited.
mircea_popescu: phf it's bait btw.
mats: lel, i tuned in a couple weeks ago after spam in another chan - weev was brought on and proceeded to rave about using btc to place shorts on papa johns stock
mircea_popescu: anything but shit that works, huh.
mats: and then using his aryan brotherhood pals to pimp the corp
mircea_popescu: vaguely reminiscent of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-08#1748707☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-08 14:45 mircea_popescu: in other shit you'll never believe, ukr chickie dun wanna costa rica because "prefers milder climates". "20 is too hot for her"!
mats: from the looks of his unfinished room, none of that happened
mircea_popescu: in other news, here's another thing teh republic wants to hire : an exceptional orfevre.
mircea_popescu is thinking of actually starting a chivalry order.
phf: we're finally going full knight templar?
mircea_popescu: well...
mircea_popescu: what the hell is wrong with it, some nice gold swag
phf wouldn't mind having one of those oversized, drafty castles where you have to run a fireplace to heat one room out of 20 (or was it 30? we've lost count during last inspection, etc.)
mircea_popescu: so far we're only talking oversized lapel pins
phf: eh, i'm not picky
cazalla: g'day folks
mircea_popescu: how's pollacklands
cazalla: yet to step foot there, still waiting on my citizenship and passport
mircea_popescu: a
cazalla: know much about whisky mp? bought myself a $500 bottle, bit disappointed, not sure what i expected or if scammed lol (26yr old glenfiddich)
mircea_popescu: i despise grain alcohols.
mircea_popescu: but if one has to, vodka. wtf is whis whiskey bs.
cazalla: nigger rich!
cazalla: figured why not, once doesn't hurt, not gonna double down and get the 30 yr old
mircea_popescu: sure.
mircea_popescu: i regularily buy the 30yo rum
mircea_popescu: very much worth it.
mircea_popescu: course here you can actually get it in bars.
cazalla: i bought a bottle of that reserva, was nice, i still prefer bundy rum (although the one i like can't be bought now)
mircea_popescu: !!up sofiababy
deedbot: sofiababy voiced for 30 minutes.
sofiababy: has no one updated
sofiababy: this thing
sofiababy: the instructions on how to create a key
sofiababy: it seems somethings a slightly different
mircea_popescu: how ?
sofiababy: it used to say certficate
sofiababy: now it says keys
sofiababy: which is fine
sofiababy: im not that stupid
sofiababy: i was jus saying u need to update it
sofiababy: who ever created in
sofiababy: anyway im half way
sofiababy: on creating
cazalla: where do you cam sofiababy ?
sofiababy: my gateway
sofiababy: mfc
cazalla: try twitch?
sofiababy: yeai did i used to play ps4
sofiababy: thereu dont make half
esthlos: mircea_popescu: i apologise for disappearing. I was in meatspace this weekend
sofiababy: im havin an issue
sofiababy: can someone help me
sofiababy: im stuck on
esthlos: mircea_popescu: you can find some work at http://www.esthlos.com
sofiababy: In your task bar, right click on the Kleopatra icon, go to ‘Clipboard’, then click ‘Certificate Import’
sofiababy: it isnt an option
sofiababy: certificate import isnt an option
sofiababy: areyou a gamer cazala
shinohai: O hai cazalla
esthlos: mircea_popescu: my thesis is probably the most interesting.
cazalla: sofiababy, no, stopped watching twitch after it was inundated with gamer girl camwhores, but i read they do well sparking up league of legends, chatting to virgins and getting them to donate to their patreon
cazalla: shinohai, heya shinohai
sofiababy: im not sure how much twitch take
sofiababy: they dont do they
sofiababy: u have to use paypal i guess
asciilifeform: holy FUQ the gigatonne of 3-syllable-per-line liquishit in this log
sofiababy: i play gta
mircea_popescu: o cool lessee
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform womenz in da haus.
phf: cazalla: what'd you think of 46yr glenfiddih compared to their 12yr etc. stuff? i've had a variety of vintages, and i can't for the love of me feel ~that~ much difference. meanwhile a difference between a 10 and 40 year port is very tangible
mircea_popescu: tangy-ble lol
sofiababy: whiskey?
phf: mircea_popescu: :]
sofiababy: i dont drink
sofiababy: when i did
sofiababy: i did drink glenf
mircea_popescu: o you did ?
mircea_popescu: cazalla phf all your questions are answered i presume ?
mircea_popescu: in other esthlos-powered insta-lulz, "I wish to God these calculations were executed by steam..."
phf: heh
mircea_popescu recalls somewhat fondly old days of "put the model in and wait a few hours for to find out how you fucked it up this time"
cazalla: phf, 26yr excellence was nice, but maybe i built it up in my mind to be something other given its cost, i'd be just as happy to drink the 18 or 15 tbh, not that i drink much at all these days anyway
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: you'd luvvvv pcb design-manufacture loop. asics even moar.
mircea_popescu: esthlos i take it you read naggum's overfinnicky in parts, overloose in other parts time essay ?
asciilifeform: ( replace 'hours' with 'months' )
mircea_popescu: oya.
asciilifeform: and if you merely long for the days of 8 hour compiles -- will luvv large fpga wurk.
mircea_popescu: maybe fondly wasn't the exactly right word.
asciilifeform: lol
mircea_popescu: something more in the vein of delighted relief.
sofiababy: meh =[
sofiababy: kleopatra dont like me
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform phf https://arxiv.org/abs/1408.2499 << check him out
mircea_popescu: !!rated esthlos
deedbot: mircea_popescu has not rated esthlos.
asciilifeform: oh hey, a new german maths d00d ?
asciilifeform: ( where did we put the old one.. )
mircea_popescu: !!rate esthlos 1 WRT lulz.
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/kEWUz/?raw=true
esthlos: mircea_popescu: I haven't see that of naggum's
esthlos: mircea_popescu: spacetime is my main field of study
mircea_popescu: (forlulz : item he discussed is called "chern-simons" by anglos because exactly http://btcbase.org/log/2014-06-04#700916 )☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-06-04 00:08 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: the buggers' traditional defense is to pretend that the event was a non-event - or, if this is impractical, to continue living in an imaginary world where they 'scooped' the story first, and all of the 'unsanctioned' discussion never happened.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have an entire collection of these somewhere
esthlos: mircea_popescu: but not what the field theorists do. they can go to hell
mircea_popescu: as does everyone.
asciilifeform: ( su-originated items, in particular, 'rebranded' )
mircea_popescu: esthlos so what's your take on the imminent quantum computer in a thousand words or less ? :D
phf: cazalla: nod, i in fact befriended a guy who has the largest whisky collection on the east coast (an old texan drunk), and despite sampling a large variety, i'm just going to stick to bottom shelf
mircea_popescu: esthlos http://naggum.no/lugm-time.html it was iirc
asciilifeform finds himself in agreement with phf , ~all reasonably-clean distillates taste ~same to him
mircea_popescu: if it's not made from fruit, it'd better be 99%'d and then diluted back down.
phf: mircea_popescu: that one is a purely technical paper on details of code implementation for calculations with civil time
mircea_popescu: "The Long, Painful History of Time" ?
phf: yes
cazalla: in other news, what is with hookers talking about their fkn kids
phf: if you're reading it, it's for you
cazalla: one burmese bitch even starting complaining she couldn't do as many men as some of the other girls
asciilifeform: ^
mircea_popescu: phf wut are you talking aboot ?
mircea_popescu: i mean sure it gets to computer implementations halfway through...
sofiababy: cazala u crac me up
sofiababy: its a trick maybe
sofiababy: to get sympathyy
sofiababy: and sympathy means cash
mircea_popescu: esthlos jesus christ could your items not be pdfs for the love of things not sucking.
mircea_popescu: also pinet.* is 404.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: phf's summary is entirely troo, naggum's item was about time ~units~, zones, seasons. rather than physical concept.
mircea_popescu: naive perception thereof, i guess. anyway.
asciilifeform: people-stuck-actually-implementing-clocks perception.
mircea_popescu: then again, the notion that a perception of time might not be naive is a pretty tough argument in the first place.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what else ?
asciilifeform: nuffinelse, that was whole item
mircea_popescu: what-else-can-be-a-naive-perception-of-time-than-trying-to-build-clocks
asciilifeform: aaa hm
asciilifeform: for the lack of any contact with 'expert perceptions of time', i'll leave this item where it is
mircea_popescu: well, you don't like modern physics.
asciilifeform: i'm ok with sr/gr
esthlos: asciilifeform: yes
mircea_popescu: but let me point out a cheval that various investigations in the nature of the number cca 1700s were equally ill regarded.
asciilifeform: waiwat which yes
mircea_popescu: the ANTERIOR yes, yes ?
phf: yes?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-18#1752974 << 'macports' iirc still worx☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-18 01:25 phf: meanwhile, homebrew, the mac os x package manager, finally pulled the final bate and switch. "build from source" option is now marked as "unsupported" (!!!) in the man pages, everything's being pulled using precompiled archives. building a non-trivial set of packages from source fails along the way with clearly misconfigured formulas. this is possibly of interest only to ben_vulpes (?)
esthlos: asciilifeform: wrt sr/gr
esthlos: quantm field theory is a mess, everyone just wants to be the next einstein, no one cares about understanding what is going on
mircea_popescu: this sounds shocking and unexpected.
mircea_popescu: anyone recall that great scene where tom green "Saves the day" at the maternity ward ?
phf: asciilifeform: i've been trying to build "mpv", a video player that notoriously relies on a lot of shit packages. i've actually tried homebrew over netbsd's ports, because later fails to build mpv that actually works on mac. now so does homebrew. i'll try macports, but i doubt it'll deliver
esthlos: the quantum path integral is a farce, even dirac said we need to start over
mircea_popescu: "i guess they just DON'T LIKE HEROES AROUND HERE!11"
asciilifeform: esthlos: i tuned out when 'serious' people started talking about 'testability and parsimony aren't mandatory'
esthlos: my thesis is about a rigorous approach...which only works in 3D... sigh
mircea_popescu: what's this mean, "only works in 3d"
esthlos: mircea_popescu: as to quantum computers, I don't know a whole lot about quantum, but i believe that an information-theoretic approach to spacetime is the best bet to quantize it
mircea_popescu: oh i see.
mircea_popescu: "The Chern–Simons theory, named after Shiing-Shen Chern and James Harris Simons, is a 3-dimensional topological quantum field theory of Schwarz type, developed by Edward Witten." << wikipedia fucking delivers.
esthlos: mircea_popescu: its almost a joke of the universe that 4d manifolds are almost impossible to classify https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classification_of_manifolds#Dimension_4:_exotic
mircea_popescu: "the us economy, named for mccain's father in law, is a piece of marysue fanfic written home by foreigners".
esthlos: but 5+d is easy and 0-3 are workable
mircea_popescu: esthlos myeah. but i mean... how can it "only work in 3d", ie, what, no solutions in 5d ?
esthlos: mircea_popescu: more like infinite solutions, so choosing any single solution is arbitrary. just like the feynman path integral. its thttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riemann_series_theoremhis problem in a larger context:
esthlos: whoops: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riemann_series_theorem
mircea_popescu: hm
asciilifeform: esthlos: does it ever bother you that your primary maths link-reference is a spamola farm ?
mircea_popescu: as opposed to what exactly, the experts sex change source of all software ?
esthlos: asciilifeform: you mean wikipedia? i agree its shitty
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'software' ain't a thing
mircea_popescu: math following it rapidly into the hole.
asciilifeform: entirely possibly already in
mircea_popescu: speaking of all this geometry, did they find the 4d smooth sphere ?
asciilifeform: q is, why maths folx sit and edit pediwikia, which gives them nothing in return, censors/'curates' the work, and leverages it to spray respectability perfume on their politclaptrap ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why do milkmaids sell their milk for 10cents a galon to walmart to be sold to consumer for a buck a bottle ?
mircea_popescu: cuz relative size problem, they perceive themselves as small.
asciilifeform: milkmaid gotta eat. nobody's forced to pediwikiate.
mircea_popescu: publish or perish!
asciilifeform: afaik pediwikism dun count as 'publication'
asciilifeform: for delaying-perishing
mircea_popescu: this is irrelevant. whenever the state manages to enforce some idiocy, it's not the case the state enforced it, it's the case it followed a fashion!
mircea_popescu: they went in for the bologna BECAUSE they felt they DO have to.
mircea_popescu: whether it's for credit or for free makes little practical difference. the problem's in the brain not in the statute.
asciilifeform momentarily pictured idiocy having... viscosity.. and following, e.g., bernoulli's law
mircea_popescu: maybe some reformulation.
asciilifeform: but yes, pretty clear that 'felt they had to', not martian hypnosis did it, no.
mircea_popescu: but it's absolutely and eminently NOT the case that smart people were doing smart people things and some bureaucrats came in su style and "henceforth you shall publish or perish". it was rather the case that some smart people sat around doing existential anguish, and some bureaucrats came by, packaged it as "publish or perish" and then proceeded to sell it to them (in exchange of an island of manhattan worth of "scientific" s
mircea_popescu: upport for "policies").
mircea_popescu: they still feel that way with or without "i fucking love science" marketing depts.
asciilifeform: ww2 and after, grantola, explosion of (per kuhn) 'ordinary science' i.e. stamp collecting, is what did it
asciilifeform: actual thinking folx dun have 'existential angst'.
asciilifeform: nor a pressing need to flatten forests printing drivel.
mircea_popescu: this is a dubious point.
asciilifeform: whyssat
mircea_popescu: well, for many different reasons, but let's set on the very convenient tu quoque approach. you yourself think all sorts of insanities about what you can and can not do, which vary according to mood. it's no different for anyone else.
asciilifeform: the problem is not that folx suffer insanities, but the packaging for sale.
mircea_popescu: this is also a dubious point.
mircea_popescu: is the jewish young female sluttery the problem, or merely the pimp's ready marketing of it ?
asciilifeform: i'm not equipped to map this item onto the other
mircea_popescu: where folks suffer insanities a marketing will be found.
mircea_popescu: where there's teenaged runaways, a charlie manson will be found
mircea_popescu: and so following.
mircea_popescu: not "because charlie manson, therefore here's a list of dozen+ teenagers who fucked on the first day" but quite vice-versa : "because oodlebunches of such teenagers, therefore here's weirdo cult nonsense".
asciilifeform: that'd be ye olde 'devil finds work for idle hands' theory
mircea_popescu: and so ipse, not because government grants therefore flatten forests printing drivel.
mircea_popescu: much simpler than that : if your rng is broken someone somewhere will exploit it.
mircea_popescu: insanity === broken rng.
asciilifeform: so i take it mircea_popescu leans to 'physics stuck in a ditch post-ww2 and after that inevitably ceremonial and staffed by priests' ?
asciilifeform: or to 'not stuck at all'
asciilifeform: or entirely none of these ?
mircea_popescu: no. physics stuck in ditch because smart people have fallen into a sort of sartrean hell, very much equal parts Кто ты по жизни? and "how do i know i exist"
asciilifeform: but why fallen ~then~
mircea_popescu: why did you fart when you farted as opposed to at any other time ?
mircea_popescu: this is a specious argument retrospectively.
asciilifeform: recall the 'police detective may not entertain hypothesis of miraculous disappearance when confronted with empty safe' ?
mircea_popescu: yes.
asciilifeform: same applies here. thinking people may not retreat to 'allah farted and therefore.
mircea_popescu: mind that police detective is not liberal profession. this is SPECIFICALLY what it means : that not at liberty to consider all possibilities. that's what makes a technical profession.
asciilifeform: 'allah farted' is not a possibility that merits considering while having the activity still called 'thinking' and the folx engaging therein, 'thinkers'
mircea_popescu: doctor is allowed to assign miraculous cause ; and the curtailing of that allowance exactly mirrors the technicalization (ie, de-liberalization) of medicine.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is a third dubious point.
asciilifeform: it's a surrender. quite analogous to soldier surrendering.
mircea_popescu: consider the problem of mechanics in 1900. physics "complete science" and why can't you 1900 alf explain the mercury precession ?
mircea_popescu: MAYBE YOU ARE NOT TRYING HARD ENOUGH!
mircea_popescu: good physicist NOT ALLOWED TO THROW OUT COMPLETE SCIENCE!!!
mircea_popescu: people said these exact things, btw.
mircea_popescu: and they were right, except... there's a categorical error.
asciilifeform: 'hard' is irrelevant. it's a 'yer not smart enuff, go sell used horses'
mircea_popescu: the view was wrong -- the complete science was actually neither complete nor even correct
mircea_popescu: which is why we can have color television sets with short tubes. they, smart or not smart, couldn't have.
asciilifeform: drawing, quartering, burning out with hot irons a out defective paradigm is ~the~ work of actual thinker.
mircea_popescu: so then.
mircea_popescu: this "the work" is also, a surrender. in the terms of the item being burned down.
asciilifeform: how the everliving fuck is that a surrender
asciilifeform: it's a victory. the only kind there is.
mircea_popescu: ~in the terms of the item being burned down~.
asciilifeform: to the defeated -- the tears.
mircea_popescu: but before you abandoned it, it wasn't defeated yet.
mircea_popescu: this is how coffin liners are mostly produced. for as long as you still hold it, it still has something going for it.
mircea_popescu: namely -- you.
asciilifeform: observe also that in practice the so-called 'physicists' ~never surrender, and how field 'advances 1 funeral at a time'
asciilifeform: very rarely anyone abandons the dead end crud. the adherents continue to sit in their chairs, and eventually die, and next generation puts the dead end item in rubbish bin where it belongs , instead of picking up.
mircea_popescu: mostly, yeah.
mircea_popescu: there's also the very problematic... consider. the highlight of my entirely negligible theoretical physicist career such as it was, was pariticpating at this "international contest". it was named... "the first step to nobel prize in physics".
asciilifeform: i found interesting that blondlot continued leading 'institute' of his 'n-rays' until he died. lived for ~decades~ after wood raped'im
mircea_popescu: now, i didn't happen to give a shit. but think what they try to sell to these unfortunate kids.
asciilifeform: i know what they sell to them. worked with the asian phd folx who got diploma for washing glass, 'first step to...' various.
mircea_popescu: really ? STEPS ? http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-06#1679600 ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-06 15:09 mircea_popescu: which is how every god damned kid that was sexually abused through the process of socialist schooling (which is all of them -- education is education, and socialist school is definitionally sexual abuse of all children involved) ends up with the idea that newton sat down TO discover whatever he did (unimportant, really) and THEREFORE he did.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you don't have a full vierw of the problem. allow me to recount a lengthy story that shall make my point for me.
mircea_popescu: so, in the 1990s, after the purge dkscj
asciilifeform: hey bureaucrat sees ~everythign~ as usg org chart, climbable, naturally has steps! itmust!!
asciilifeform tunes in..
mircea_popescu: ... the purge discussed in http://trilema.com/2017/when-did-america-end/ the navy and the airforce found themselves in a de facto competition
mircea_popescu: "who will first have female jet pilots???"
phf: asciilifeform: this is what macport presents for installation approval when you try and pull mpv http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/dcDet/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: the airforce won. it won by trickery -- had some girl that did ~6 hours all through 1990s, then did most of her actual hours in 2000s.
mircea_popescu: the navy tried to win honestly ; and it failed. it's not JUST that woman, Hultgreen, crashed her airplane in a manner that a) was taught as incorrect and b) she had been negged for doing in training.
mircea_popescu: it's that there were four women ; which were judged by the (absolutely and entirely fair and utterly unsexist, as a factualmatter beyond dispute) men involved as : hultgreen, marginal, the rest, substandard.
esthlos: this channel is like discovering the last psychiatrist again
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: contest of strongest horse in glue factory ?
mircea_popescu: now, all this was found out because an engineer involved leaked data. he did so because it was eggregious -- like how the sort of red mark that often ended a male';s career were accumulating in the double digits on these unfortunate souls' files
mircea_popescu: and he deemed it a major securtity risk. which it was. as events proved.
asciilifeform: i'm still surprised it wasn't handled su-style -- i.e. by not marking to begin with
mircea_popescu: now, one of the substandard ones actually SUED. because she deemed that the release of "her private data" as to how bad she sucked is such an important matter, it precludes the public interest.
asciilifeform: 'this comes back to unit commander until all marks green'
mircea_popescu: the courts rebuffed her ; then. the upper court even had to tell her that "calling the first women trying to do this public figure does not constitute a statement of some kind of negative judgement". because yes, she was intimating this.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: is this suit on file somewhere ? i'd luvv to read
mircea_popescu: now consider two different problems. one of them is, the damned hardware involved. the piece of shit airplane they flew (f14) is SO BADLY DESIGNED its nose moving left/right can disrupt airflow into compressor intake ACTUALLY STALLING an engine.
shinohai: oglaf, ever relevant http://oglaf.com/old-st-nick/
mircea_popescu: and THEN! with stalled engines, the force vector can actually outrule the damned rudder! you lose the plane for turning! and they flew this, and somehow won a war with the fucking clothes iron.
asciilifeform: this is typical in american machines, they all come with a 'it hurts -- dun do that' , e.g. phantom's irrecoverable spin
mircea_popescu: but this finnicky nonsense aside, point two : these women, not just the dead one ; not just the suing one ; ALL of them, constantly and without fucking respite came in too high and too fast.
mircea_popescu: MUCH too high. much too fast. ALL THE TIME.
mircea_popescu: and the trainers kept telling them and they ignored.
mircea_popescu: to the point they ~actually scareds~ the fucking technical crew on multiple occasions.
mircea_popescu: understand what the crew here is : they're people who pour gasoline out of a large hose straight in the nose of a running jet engine, open air like that. hot refuelling it's called. they're people who get sucked into the damned things doing it, not and again.
mircea_popescu: these guys wouldn't be easily scared. but the girls weren't... easily deterred. you see ?
mircea_popescu: "i ate a lot of shit to come this far" is a fundamental problem. they CAN NOT go slower, and lower. and they CAN NOT hear anyone telling them to. you understrand why ?
asciilifeform: napoleon's syndrome?
mircea_popescu: it's an identity issue. the sort of girl that gets all gung ho about "being first girl to" is going to a) be trying too hard and b) be not listening too well.
mircea_popescu: now then! finally done with that!
mircea_popescu: so... one funeral at a time. yeah. this'd be why. performance can't be a fucking substitute for identity.
mircea_popescu: and now let's read teh backlog lol.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-18#1753228 << "how did you become a great physicist ?" "well... first i became a moderately-great physicist, and then an above-moderately-great physicist, and then..."☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-18 02:55 asciilifeform: hey bureaucrat sees ~everythign~ as usg org chart, climbable, naturally has steps! itmust!!
asciilifeform: !#s from:mircea_popescu samovar
a111: 13 results for "from:mircea_popescu samovar", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Amircea_popescu%20samovar
asciilifeform: ^ see also
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-18#1753236 << he's dearly beloved here, at that. pity he quit.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-18 02:58 esthlos: this channel is like discovering the last psychiatrist again
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform recall that story about the dumbest gilr in my hs that ended up a math assistant prof ?
asciilifeform: aha!
mircea_popescu: this is the catastrophe of ideology, it misplaces people into harms way.
asciilifeform: therw was a similar piece by mircea_popescu re some d00d who tried to lie his way into 'manager' work
mircea_popescu: ah right! lol.
mircea_popescu: see, cuz goat imagines everyone's a goat, and what, ro is a small enough country that x and y would know each other
asciilifeform: it's a recurring thread , 'so you fooled'em into thinking yer a doctor, now they bring you a bleeding wreck , naowat'
mircea_popescu: "i don't know any people in power, why would the guy hiring me"
asciilifeform: there is occasional competent guild impostor , e.g. the fella who was jailed after decade of flying commercial jets with forged license , name presently escapesme
asciilifeform: but ~nobody will ever meet these.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-18#1753244 << https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/politics/2003/12/13/court-rejects-suit-woman-who-was-navy-pilot/ pravda even has notice on it.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-18 03:01 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: is this suit on file somewhere ? i'd luvv to read
asciilifeform: eggog !!
asciilifeform: nobody archived it, either
asciilifeform: afaik , it's gone.
mircea_popescu: lessee.
mircea_popescu: http://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-dc-circuit/1061879.html << here you go.
mircea_popescu: also, paralegals, man. worth every penny.
asciilifeform: oh hey neato.
mircea_popescu: so, to sum up : this all goes back straight exactly to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-08-28#1704268☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-08-28 23:10 mircea_popescu: kanzure " Obviously there is no possiblity of meaning outside of a structure of authority, and the authority can not be predicated on the meaning."
mircea_popescu: except in the formulation here, there is no possibility of performance outside of a structure of identity, and the identity can not be predicated on the performance.
phf: further unrelated to conversation lulz. package formula references fribidi (implementation of fucking bidirectional unicode). the url for it with the site and everything is dead, but there's a shithub page. formula references fribidi-0.19.7.tar.bz2, github has 0.19.7.tar.gz. ~these are apparently different beast, because using later fails the build, while tracking a copy of the first one succeeds~. this is beyond insanity.
mircea_popescu: this is the whole story, both as to why "physics died" and as to why and wherefore etc.
asciilifeform: phf: i gotta ask : 'why'
asciilifeform: phf: why are you doing it
phf: asciilifeform: i want to watch movies! i figured i can do better than a close source vlc package, apparently not
mircea_popescu: he;s preparing self for the new vtrons
asciilifeform: lol
mircea_popescu: phf i use vlc. i prefer to sacrifice a box to it than waste anyone's time thus.
phf: but also mircea_popescu's assessment is correct, i'm tampering myself before i face the insides of difftools
asciilifeform: i have even sadder item , re subj , dedicated chinese pogolike thing for watching film on. it dun even go on the lan. just eats usb drives.
mircea_popescu: "why are you biting out of a turd ?" "fortifying self for trench time, i hear sometimes people there have to drink piss"
asciilifeform: тяжело в учении -- легко в бою (tm)(r)
phf: maresyev flight school
mircea_popescu: shall i also ask what movies you want to watch ?
asciilifeform: matrosov gunnery school !1111
ben_vulpes: phf: nah not particularly interesting to me, i got out of that gox early q2 this year, but sfyl
asciilifeform: no moar crapple in castle ben_vulpestein ?!
shinohai: I use https://mpv.io/now, has API so u can stream from pogo ala asciilifeform
asciilifeform: stream?!
asciilifeform: and that looks like a fork of ye olde mplayer
asciilifeform: i dun have any quarrel with the original
shinohai: fork of mplayer2, ja
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: macware abounds, none of it is being used for anything other than entertainment anymore
asciilifeform: i like mplayer . 0 idjit windowisms, 'decorations' etc
mircea_popescu: wtf does movie player need unicode for, left as question for wiser men
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: subtitles
ben_vulpes: well and being a pissoir for the webatlarge
mircea_popescu: i'm sorry, i can't hear you over the sound of my poliglotism.
asciilifeform: who said human lang subtitles
asciilifeform: never watch martian films ?
mircea_popescu: lol. can't say as i ever had.
asciilifeform: jp etc
mircea_popescu: nope.
asciilifeform: then build sans orccode yea
mircea_popescu: i dobn't get it, you READ the orc langs but don't hear them ?
asciilifeform: for students of e.g. jp
mircea_popescu: this is getting pretty tenuous.
asciilifeform: they like to have both tracks running, iirc
mircea_popescu: why can't students of jp import one of them young hussies
asciilifeform: on dirigible.
mircea_popescu saw this at airport today, guy with a placard, "mr wong & miss ho"
mircea_popescu: tho ho possibly korean
asciilifeform: land of 'long dong' rocket etc lol
mircea_popescu: aha
mats: i never heard of a kr with the name wong
mircea_popescu: her not him
mircea_popescu: he, pretty sure cn
mats: ah
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-17#1752403 << possibly because of the potbellied bourgeois caricatures, anglo version is called exactly that "pot belly stove".☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-17 02:59 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: phunphakt, franklin's stove is even today in ru known as a буржуйка ( why? dunno, because from usa ? hard to say )
asciilifeform: phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-17#1752403 << thread☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-17 02:59 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: phunphakt, franklin's stove is even today in ru known as a буржуйка ( why? dunno, because from usa ? hard to say )
asciilifeform: oh hah nm
mircea_popescu: lol
asciilifeform LL(1) parser!11
mircea_popescu: that;s a new one
phf: well, also misparsing, because i didn't make it clear that franklin stove is not a буржуйка, there's a simpler u.s. item that corresponds though (can be found in e.g. faulkner)
asciilifeform: oh hm
mircea_popescu: did we ever do http://www.drdobbs.com/architecture-and-design/interview-with-alan-kay/240003442?pgno=1 btw ?
asciilifeform: pretty sure we did
mircea_popescu: !#s "drdobbs"
a111: 6 results for "\"drdobbs\"", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=%22drdobbs%22
mircea_popescu: tis not there.
phf: mircea_popescu: is that by way of esthlos's squeak/croquet links?
asciilifeform: aaah nm it was linked from asciilifeform's www
asciilifeform: but loox like was never formally eaten here.
mircea_popescu: the kay interview ? it's from this large pile of "items of interest" i go through when in the mood.
phf nods
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform idiot site does "pages" as iof that's fuycking permissible ; so now we'll end up with an archived first quarter.
mircea_popescu: the ways in which webtards manage to break computers are innumerable.
asciilifeform: let's fix...
asciilifeform: http://www.drdobbs.com/architecture-and-design/interview-with-alan-kay/240003442?pgno=1
asciilifeform: http://www.drdobbs.com/architecture-and-design/interview-with-alan-kay/240003442?pgno=2
asciilifeform: http://www.drdobbs.com/architecture-and-design/interview-with-alan-kay/240003442?pgno=3
asciilifeform: http://www.drdobbs.com/architecture-and-design/interview-with-alan-kay/240003442?pgno=4
mircea_popescu: "i know, let me put this resource in four fucking places because that's why it's called ununiform resource locator"
asciilifeform: they broke deliberately, to push ad crapola
phf: the easiest way to fix is of course to link to "print" version, which on sites of certain vintage is usually a single page
phf: http://www.drdobbs.com/article/print?articleId=240003442&siteSectionName=architecture-and-design
mircea_popescu: phf yes ; and this fix is further breaking
mircea_popescu: now it's ununiform rl in a DIFFERENT WAY
asciilifeform: ^
mircea_popescu: amusingly, kay actually SAY\S THIS in the very piece
mircea_popescu: "The marketing people are not there to teach people, so probably one of the most disastrous interactions with computing was the fact that you could make money selling simulations of old, familiar media, and these apps just swamped most of the ideas of Doug Engelbart, for example. The Web browser, for many, many years, and still, even though it's running on a computer that can do X, Y, and Z, it's now up to about X and 1/2 of
mircea_popescu: Y."
phf: hey i also just wanted to watch my movies
mircea_popescu: in other news, this interview is terrible.
mircea_popescu: but in other heresies, http://notes.esthlos.com/files/2017-11-16-lisp-enlightenment.txt
asciilifeform: this is the kind of pseudo-pithy item that folx cough up the day they first encounter a lisp , and then walk around ashamed of for years
mircea_popescu: i thought it was cute.
mircea_popescu: there is no more fundamental human property than the need to belong ; and since illusions are by their nature sweet, there's no more endearingly common characteristic than misconstrued partisanship.
mircea_popescu: but alf might appreciate http://notes.esthlos.com/files/2017-12-11-all-programming-is-intelligence-programming.txt
mircea_popescu: amusingly, it msises the very obvious failure of the "chinese room" nonsense (yes, searle mc dumbnuts, you don't speak chinese NOW ; but if you followed the recipe you WOULD, by the time you'd stop making errors, actually speak chinese. duh. eternal error of the childish mind, http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Amircea+dynamic+static etc ), but moving on to more interesting things :
mircea_popescu: "understanding" of the "truely" or any other variety, in the "human" sense is simply second order prediction. we would readily identify a computer as "hard ai" or "truly" comprehending what's going on if it a) deployed heuristics and then b) made reasonable (which does not mean correct) predictions about their likelihood of success.
mircea_popescu: which is why towlie of "i have no idea what's going on" southpark fame is very much interpreted as human-like.
asciilifeform: vitalists escape from field to field like roaches in nyc flats
asciilifeform: searle could've been , say, chemist, but wohler happened
mircea_popescu: note that the true problem here isn't that "computers don't understand context" or whatever othjer bl;a bla. people very provably do not either.
mircea_popescu: so the whole "understanding" bullshit is a case of utterly misdefined goals.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-14#922030 << thread☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-11-14 21:02 asciilifeform: http://home.engineering.iastate.edu/~alexs/classes/2011_Spring_585X/readings/02_Principles/AI_Meets_Natural_Stupidity.pdf
mircea_popescu: "identity as genus" occurs not when op says something extremely shockingly intelligent or w/e, but when you say "do you understand what you jsut said ?!" and they retort "not really".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha
davout: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-18#1752837 <<< ye olde "you got lucky"☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-18 00:33 indiancandy1: u didnt predict this
ben_vulpes: http://archive.is/p526V << certain elements of the pravda are funny; the classic socialistoid "assuming the sale" in "The truth has been rendered here irrelevant" in regards to the /defamation case/, also the hilarious verdict of ~"you'd have to be /uniquely stupid/ to not understand that you're a public figure by virtue of just fucking look at yourself"
mircea_popescu: heh
ben_vulpes: and now for something completely different: http://archive.is/IEa6u "I have always been fascinated, and a little troubled, by the concept of paper money, or fiat currency. If I think about it too long it makes my head hurt and I have an urge to sell all of my tech stocks and buy gold."
ben_vulpes: gods bless, his webpage loads in half a second
mircea_popescu: selling "tech" stocks ie, worthless web-venture paper is a good move in any case.
ben_vulpes: i thought it was cute!
mircea_popescu: lol
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> afaik pediwikism dun count as 'publication' << Eh, but the so called deans prolly count pediwiki links as citations in their minds if not on paper
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> they like to have both tracks running, iirc << AHA, this and rock music appears to be what shaped most of the younger local's english language ability. Ingles subtitulo Espanol, Not a very functional thing, thankfully only a flash of stink eye pushes them pack into spanish practice mode.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> amusingly, it msises the very obvious failure of the "chinese room" nonsense (yes, searle mc dumbnuts, you don't speak chinese NOW ; but if you followed the recipe you WOULD, by the time you'd stop making errors, actually speak chinese. duh. eternal error of the childish mind, http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Amircea+dynamic+static etc ), but moving on to more interesting things : << AHA the poor hostel staff
BingoBoingo: watching the gringo's language learning in real time.
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 18910.01, vol: 14251.02644525 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 18736.0, vol: 61903.85854873 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 18909.0, vol: 3672.105393 | Volume-weighted last average: 18775.0230839
BingoBoingo: Gracias por sus Crashing!
shinohai: DIOS MIO CRASHING!!!!!
BingoBoingo: Senor dios, mas crashing por favor.
BingoBoingo baking a blog post, he caminado mucho este Domingo pasado
deedbot: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2017/12/18/a-second-sunday-for-the-midwestern-rube/ << Bingo Blog - A Second Sunday For the Midwestern Rube
BingoBoingo: ^ Bonus observation: The drive to grow my own tomatoes, not as strong here. Pretty delicious tomatoes rather available.
BingoBoingo: !~bcstats
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 499975 | Current Difficulty: 1.873105475221E12 | Next Difficulty At Block: 501983 | Next Difficulty In: 2008 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: None | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo how come you're still in hotels anyway ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Not hotels, the hostel.
BingoBoingo: share bedroom with 8 persons
BingoBoingo: *7 persons, I am the 8th
mircea_popescu: why not rent ?
BingoBoingo: Language exposure, plan is renting an apartment in February when vacation season is a least winding down.
mircea_popescu: what's the current arrangement cost you per month ?
BingoBoingo: ~550 USD, studio apartment rents here are roughly ~600 USD monthly
BingoBoingo: Arrangement comes with bed, locker, common areas occupied by rotating cast of new people
mircea_popescu: ah, makes sense.
mircea_popescu: *thumbsup*
BingoBoingo: Also buys time for meeting roommate capable persons
mircea_popescu: yea
BingoBoingo: Renting an apartment now would mean either gambling on roomates for the long haul or undertaking an exercise which introduces wasted hours of solitude not exposed to languages
mircea_popescu: i agreed like five lines above!
BingoBoingo: Yeah, but reiterating the problem for log readers. The hotel/hostel confusion seems to be a persistent one in conversations.
BingoBoingo: Especially with the locals
BingoBoingo: Anyways, if this were a hotel and I were paying hotel prices... the minor for hostel structural and chinche issues would not be so easily dismissed, and there would be wrath
BingoBoingo: Anyways, now that business is baking I'll be touring the datacenter tomorrow.
BingoBoingo: Next Friday one of the other enterprises is throwing a "Welcome to Uruguay" welcome asado for the gringo, which I should be much more awake for than the end of the year celebration asado they threw at the cowork which coincided with the day of my arrival.
mircea_popescu: nice.
BingoBoingo: The locals are a very welcoming people.
mircea_popescu: samba si...
BingoBoingo: Argentina's slogan is the lie "Argentina no es un pais pobre", Montevideo's is the truth "Montevideo es muy tranquilo"
mircea_popescu: ya twas not bad.
mircea_popescu: aaand in today's ancient trilemas, http://trilema.com/2013/in-which-life-moves-on/
mircea_popescu: esthlos you know how to self-voice, right ?
BingoBoingo: Ah, that great announcement where the leverage had moved
mircea_popescu: looking retrospectively, i suspect the great lure of "tech" such that "boys turn to tech, girls turn to poundcake" is in fact that if well done, tech seems to be the closest thing one has to fountain of eternal youth.
mircea_popescu: through the following mechanism : "Has it only been four years ?!?!?!?" asks the boy. "I think I aged less than that's worth", ie, "good use of my time", ie... a derivative sort of youth elixir.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i am hard pressed to think of any kind of tradesman ( outside of, i suppose, walmart gulag ) who has ~less~ to show for his years, than the typical tech d00d
mircea_popescu: used to be money, back when "thus britons for lucre fly over the main". but these days... "Women have never had money, continue to have no money, and never will have any money. The only reason women can “own” property in this day and age is because you can’t “own” property in this day and age."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform tech ~well done~.
mircea_popescu: it's an aspiration not an avocation.
mircea_popescu: which is why "surprised by wealth" exists as a concept. ers wasn't being creative, he was being... you know, manly. filling a pre-existing hole.
BingoBoingo: Ah, most d00ds aspiring to tech end up in alt walmart baggery
asciilifeform: esr. ( for fyootoor log searchers pulling their hair out )
mircea_popescu: a sorry.
mircea_popescu: trinque can you run <g id="graph0" class="graph" transform="scale(1 1) rotate(0) translate(4 15840.7)"> on a dataset composed of log link references / nick references ?
mircea_popescu: or more properly speaking i suppose, can you v that thing so phf can then not plop into his ever-growing lisp visualizer because it's not written in lisp and tee hee ?
mircea_popescu: !!up sofiababy
deedbot: sofiababy voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: this log needs lengthening!
sofiababy: damn i thought evryone would be sleeping
mircea_popescu: do your thing sofiababy
sofiababy: im fixing the entry
sofiababy: i hate beging for voice
sofiababy: i want to be in with the cool kids
mircea_popescu: but...why ?
sofiababy: why not
mircea_popescu: that's a point.
sofiababy: i like it here
sofiababy: and you welcome me with open arms so
mircea_popescu: "Eventually if you keep buying you either run out of money or run out of looking like a sucker." ahaha.
mircea_popescu: god i love reading the old shit.
mircea_popescu: !~ticker market --all
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: (ticker [--bid|--ask|--last|--high|--low|--avg|--vol] [--currency XXX] [--market <market>|all]) -- Return pretty-printed ticker. Default market is Bitfinex. If one of the result options is given, returns only that numeric result (useful for nesting in calculations). If '--currency XXX' option is given, returns ticker for that three-letter currency code. It is up to you to make sure the code is a valid (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: gah
mircea_popescu: !~calc (18775.0230839/15)**(1/6)
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: (18775.0230839/15)**(1/6) = 3.282828562886639
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 18670.99, vol: 15013.73187916 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 18501.0, vol: 63074.68145741 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 18675.0, vol: 3774.33123335 | Volume-weighted last average: 18540.198758
mircea_popescu: that's a thousand dollars with an annualized growth rate of 328% eh. NOT BAD
mircea_popescu: talk about "running out of looking like a sucker".
BingoBoingo: Lol, poor gangsta roll. A victim of "When?"
BingoBoingo: Still sweeter is watching the crashing. So much crashing.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-18#1753005 << speaking of rums, apparently india actually makes some pretty decent ones☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-18 01:52 cazalla: i bought a bottle of that reserva, was nice, i still prefer bundy rum (although the one i like can't be bought now)
mircea_popescu: hung out with restaurant owner guy, got a sampler. old monk seemed best
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-18#1753038 <<->> "Men, on the other hand, attach penalties to marriage, depriving women of property, of the franchise, of the free use of their limbs, of that ancient symbol of immortality, the right to make oneself at home in the house of God by taking off the hat, of everything that he can force Woman to dispense with without compelling himself to dispense with her. All in vain. Woman must mar☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-18 02:01 cazalla: sofiababy, no, stopped watching twitch after it was inundated with gamer girl camwhores, but i read they do well sparking up league of legends, chatting to virgins and getting them to donate to their patreon
mircea_popescu: ry because the race must perish without her travail: if the risk of death and the certainty of pain, danger, and unutterable discomforts cannot deter her, slavery and swaddled ankles will not. And yet we assume that the force that carries women through all these perils and hardships, stops abashed before the primnesses of our behavior for young ladies."
mircea_popescu: let it be stated that the deep root of the whole "prostitution is unfeminist" current stems from about the same place as "it's in poor taste to sell them lost in the desert water at extortionate prices".
mircea_popescu: which is why the whole "men will do anything to get some" social fiction, with it's attendant "surprises" of the thoroughly fabricated sort, "i can't believe far far away somewhere in like japan they don't". gotta mask the bitter truth that ~woman~ will do anything to get some. literal anything.
BingoBoingo: Aha
BingoBoingo: !!up sofiababy
deedbot: sofiababy voiced for 30 minutes.
sofiababy: im streaming and reading this
sofiababy: i saw something about prostittion
mircea_popescu: lol are you becoming a republican ho ?
sofiababy: dude evry one is a prostitute to some degree
mircea_popescu: i can see it.
sofiababy: evry one is selling time one way or another
sofiababy: i think i am actually
sofiababy: lol is that weird
mircea_popescu: sofiababy hey, do you have voice on your cam thing or just video ? can you talk to the virgins ?
sofiababy: both
sofiababy: nothing wrong with being pure
mircea_popescu: o hey, so here's a deal, read out the log to them. i'll pay you say a bitcent for an hour.
mircea_popescu: start say 10 minutes ago.
mircea_popescu: and drop your link so people can check it out lol.
mircea_popescu: give that lh0 or what was it a run for its money lol.
sofiababy: okay
sofiababy: lets do it
sofiababy: what do i read?
sofiababy: cant say anything racist
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-18#1753439 << start there and read down.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-18 16:07 BingoBoingo: Argentina's slogan is the lie "Argentina no es un pais pobre", Montevideo's is the truth "Montevideo es muy tranquilo"
mircea_popescu: sofiababy link to your camshow, what is it ?
sofiababy: www.myfreecams.com/#sexyxshanti
sofiababy: does it work
mircea_popescu: o hey, it does actually.
sofiababy: hi mp
sofiababy: im wavin at u
mircea_popescu: hm, must be a recorded thing.
sofiababy: there is a delay
sofiababy: there servers aint that good
sofiababy: its nnot fox news
mircea_popescu: ah
mircea_popescu: alright, so go for it.
sofiababy: what am i doing
sofiababy: director MP
sofiababy: lol
mircea_popescu: go to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-18#1753439 which is a webpage like any other webpage and start reading down from there.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-18 16:07 BingoBoingo: Argentina's slogan is the lie "Argentina no es un pais pobre", Montevideo's is the truth "Montevideo es muy tranquilo"
sofiababy: ahaha ppl are gona think
sofiababy: im on drsg
sofiababy: drugs
sofiababy: loooooool
mircea_popescu: who knows. maybe they think you're the only smart camho on mfc.
mircea_popescu: or else yeah, drugs.
sofiababy: this guys r stooopid
sofiababy: they wil think im on drugs
ben_vulpes: who cares what they think?
sofiababy: i read the conversatio
sofiababy: i cant do the spanish
mircea_popescu: especially if they're dumb.
sofiababy: i duno how to pronouse
sofiababy: pronounc
mircea_popescu: sofiababy do your best. you also don't know how to fuck, but you do your best and it works out.
sofiababy: im not sexual
sofiababy: im a nerd
sofiababy: deep down
sofiababy: just like them
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: everyone's a nerd deep down. way the fuck easier than being a miner deep down.
mircea_popescu: also, better healthy and wealthy than sick and poor.
sofiababy: omg
sofiababy: really?
sofiababy: im a woman
sofiababy: i cant read this
sofiababy: ur mean
mircea_popescu: the quote is actually from bernard shaw.
asciilifeform: i r disappoint, i thought this was a jaguar , that mircea_popescu taught to use a keyboard
diana_coman: that meanie bernard shaw...
mircea_popescu: who, other than being a major fascist supporter, was also a guy reputedly so smart, some woman wrote to him to propose having babies on the theory she's so pretty.
sofiababy: seriosly europes most powerfu leader
sofiababy: is a woman
diana_coman: power-fu indeed
mircea_popescu: who, laura antonelli ?
sofiababy: mama merkel
mircea_popescu: menopausal items are eminently not women
mircea_popescu: merkel is an ex-woman.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and your proof to the contrary being... ?
sofiababy: ex woman or not
sofiababy: shes stil a woman
sofiababy: one hell of a woman
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nuffin but the critter's own word!11
sofiababy: bought her biography
sofiababy: i havent read it yet
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dun believe everything you read! sofiababy how do you reason ?
asciilifeform: i'ma bbl.
mircea_popescu: anyway, anyone actually can be bothered to check teh cam ? is she actyually logreading ?
sofiababy: i did
sofiababy: and i stopped
sofiababy: when i read
sofiababy: women wil never own property
sofiababy: and no1 on mfc acknowledgges anything unless its tits
mircea_popescu: oh! that's now shaw, that's... what was his name ?
mircea_popescu: dick masterson
sofiababy: these guys are different
sofiababy: like honestly
sofiababy: i didnt know such humans existed
sofiababy: apathetic horny fuckers
ben_vulpes: no reading is happening
ben_vulpes: for five seconds, an interesting thing happened on mfc
mircea_popescu: heh
sofiababy: leo should be proud
mircea_popescu: let us reiterate that ancient http://trilema.com/2017/the-practical-costs-of-hallucinated-freedom/
mircea_popescu: nothing interesting can happen on mfc because mfc is composed of a) the people there who b) operate under the delusion they may make choices.
ben_vulpes: dude a bitcent an hour
mircea_popescu: the result is a matter of necessity in those circumstances.
ben_vulpes: sofiababy: what the hell is wrong with you
sofiababy: i know
sofiababy: but
sofiababy: no buuts actually
sofiababy: lol
mircea_popescu: lmao.
sofiababy: i can continue
sofiababy: i just got hurt
sofiababy: with that quote
sofiababy: sorry
mircea_popescu: move into the pain not away from it. pain is good for you.
mircea_popescu: or as the orthodox tradition says, "durerea-i ziditoare"
sofiababy: are you orthodox
mircea_popescu: no, i'm just cultivated.
sofiababy: is the romanian calender same as greek
mircea_popescu: ~approx, yea.
sofiababy: so easter isnt the same
sofiababy: its a month latter i think
ben_vulpes: dude this is epic, girl would rather talk about calendar offsets than earn a bitcent an hour reading the log
mircea_popescu: 2018 ro easter will be on april 8th
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes this is why artificial intelligence will never be able to compete with the genuine article.
sofiababy: i didnt refuse
sofiababy: fyi
trinque: girl will faff about trying to make sure they see all sides of her until someone grabs hold.
mircea_popescu: ^
sofiababy: lol
mircea_popescu: faff. i didn't even know that was a word.
trinque: texanism with either a little girl or queer connotation
mircea_popescu: apparently brits also have it.
trinque: hm neat
sofiababy: faff means
sofiababy: well over here like people use it in context like
sofiababy: faff about
sofiababy: faffin about
mircea_popescu: it's what he said lol.
ben_vulpes: doing anything but that which needs doing.
sofiababy: like taking time to do something
sofiababy: yea
sofiababy: there
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you don't understand how self-determination works!!1
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: oh i understand this, i also understand how fist fits in cunt doesn't mean i'm not entertained from time to time with the concrete item
mircea_popescu: lol
ben_vulpes: holy fuckadoodle, imagine getting paid a bitcent an hour to do your six months
ben_vulpes: what a fuckin thing.
ben_vulpes: she would literally rather dance for tips
mircea_popescu: and as bonus lulz, we'll never know whether i would have actually paid the whole length or not.
mircea_popescu: this is the true meaning of being wealthy, when your wealth stays wealthy for longer than the world stays active. they run out of puff afore you run out of dosh
mircea_popescu: and in other lulz, i myself wasn't making a current bitcent an hour until sometime after 2010. ie, quite recently.
shinohai: Tenth of a bitcent per hour fine with me per hour
shinohai: lol
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-18#1753256 << no. the naive bare life (bios as opposed to zoon, see http://trilema.com/2014/it-all-depends-on-what-power-means/#selection-109.0-106.2 ) approach is that sunken costs matter. this feeds right into shaw above. whereas any gambler worth two shits knows you... fold when you know it can't win, not when you judge you can afford to lose "your" share of the pot.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-18 03:04 asciilifeform: napoleon's syndrome?
BingoBoingo: <sofiababy> i duno how to pronouse << It's purely phonetic, Except when it's not.
BingoBoingo: <shinohai> Tenth of a bitcent per hour fine with me per hour << Perhaps the baroness can?
BingoBoingo: Y ahora tengo una otra cita por manana en la noche
asciilifeform: !#s negative block reward
a111: 0 results for "negative block reward", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=negative%20block%20reward
asciilifeform: hmm, could've sworn we had a thread...
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-18#1753455 << hm?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-18 16:34 mircea_popescu: or more properly speaking i suppose, can you v that thing so phf can then not plop into his ever-growing lisp visualizer because it's not written in lisp and tee hee ?
phf: !!key PeterL
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/F595258CD9F1FDBDEFAE5093B4E2E0DCACB63D25.asc
phf: asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch3_shifts in press order you can see all the mentioned sigs included
asciilifeform: neato, ty phf !
mircea_popescu: phf you know, that pretty graphing item
ben_vulpes: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/dec/18/report-obama-protected-hezbollah-drug-ring-to-avoi/
mircea_popescu: in other news : the mpi m-r implementation has a fixed witness at 2.
diana_coman: gnupg m-r implementation rather
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: anyone with a good reason why magic number should stay ?
mircea_popescu: seems a gratuitous (but not readily computable) degradation of the 4^-k outer bound.
mircea_popescu waves at esthlos
esthlos waves back
mircea_popescu: !~calc 4^-12
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 4^-12 = 5.9604644775390625E-8
mircea_popescu: !~calc 4^-16
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: 4^-16 = 2.3283064365386963E-10
mircea_popescu: diana_coman should prolly add a comment in there pointing out to people who are making keys for serious use that 1e-10 is really not nearly good enough.
mircea_popescu: or rather 4.6e-10 as the case may be, since you need two.
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, I think this might be worth made into a knob in the code explicitly
mircea_popescu: this is so.
mircea_popescu: and yes i'm aware damgard extensions and whatnot, but not impressed.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, anyone wanna implement agrawal-kayal-saxena ? esthlos ? apeloyee ?
mircea_popescu: some crandall fellow supposedly "implemented" it, but apparently out of unpublishable sticks of gum arabic.
esthlos: mircea_popescu: if I can. what is it?
mircea_popescu: you know, three indian kids got a godel prize a decade ago for the first ever primality test that's deterministic, polynomial and unconditional
mircea_popescu: AND general.
mircea_popescu: given n > 2 and a coprime to n, n is prime only if (x+a)^n mod-congruent x^n+a (mod n)
esthlos: well what do you know, richard crandall
esthlos: i was acquainted with him
mircea_popescu: actually, lenstra supposedly made it actually run. initially it was very high order polynomial.
mircea_popescu: but nobody actually publishes anything anymore.
mircea_popescu: actually it's possible bernstein had a variant too.
mircea_popescu: come to think of it.
diana_coman: esthlos, "primes is in p" is the original paper describing aks; by agrawal, kayal and saxena, you'll find it easily
esthlos: okay this is cool, will implement
mircea_popescu: esthlos ada. see ffa for a basis
mircea_popescu: iirc it has berett reductions already etc
esthlos: diana_coman: thanks
mircea_popescu: http://yves.gallot.pagesperso-orange.fr/src/aks_gmp.html << supposed c++ impl ; though i have nfi who gallot fellow is.
mircea_popescu: http://yves.gallot.pagesperso-orange.fr/arbregen.html << tho apparently there's a genealogy tree going back to 1600s, so how bad can it be.
esthlos: mircea_popescu: is there a preference on how I compute totient?
mircea_popescu: do i get a closed set to pick amongst ?
mircea_popescu: !#s totient
a111: 7 results for "totient", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=totient
esthlos: I don't have anything specific in mind
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-18#1753680 << it's worthlessly slow☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-18 22:20 mircea_popescu: incidentally, anyone wanna implement agrawal-kayal-saxena ? esthlos ? apeloyee ?
asciilifeform: as in, century per key.
mircea_popescu: esthlos look through the various FFA items as pasted by asciilifeform first ; to get an idea what the item is like. so you don't have to wait till he's finished publishing it all
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform tell you what, m-r as found in gpg, with its "12" that are really 11 witnesses is worthlessly useless.
mircea_popescu: at this juncture having options is the right move. let user decide.
asciilifeform: option that dun terminate before user dies of old age, dun help much
mircea_popescu: it's not THAT bad.
asciilifeform: matter of fact, it is. unless there's been a serious advance that i slept through
asciilifeform: m-r with programmable iteration knob is however worth making imho
asciilifeform: ( we even had thread, not long ago )
asciilifeform: ( where asciilifeform observed that, for serious battlefield key, a month of pre-use m-r, plus a box doing it continuously ~4evah , is not excessive )
mircea_popescu: rather than being all negative!!!, got a review copy of ffa somewhere to pass to esthlos ?
asciilifeform: fed with fg naturally.
asciilifeform: it's on my www, what
asciilifeform: and on phf's
mircea_popescu looks
asciilifeform: or mircea_popescu was asking for other-than-ch1-3 ?
mircea_popescu: yes, whole item
asciilifeform: this is tricky business because i changed a great many things, ch1-3 is in many ways incompatible with the old item
asciilifeform: and no i have no intention of dropping it out of schedule
mircea_popescu: what i mean by "review copy" ; last complete item
mircea_popescu: so he has something to work on, rather than wait for tutorial completion, is the logic
asciilifeform: there was a version given to mod6 , should be in the log somewhere , that had all of the basic arithmetic (+,-,*,/)
mircea_popescu: did it have barett reduction ?
asciilifeform: nope, and the complete barrett is unreleased , it is not up to releasable standard yet
mircea_popescu: alright.
asciilifeform: i very muchly recommend that all n00bs, regardless of skill, follow the www tutorial
asciilifeform: material will make 9000x moarsense
mircea_popescu: esthlos i'd love for you to be able to jump straight into this ; however there's some groundwork to be laid. look into the V system, because ideally you'd be presenting the finished item as a patch on diana's eucrypt lib. and asciilifeform is working on and publishing a final FFA which is what we intend to use here.
mircea_popescu: so do that first ; then.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-18#1753708 <- in gpg it's "5" which is 4, lol☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-18 22:38 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform tell you what, m-r as found in gpg, with its "12" that are really 11 witnesses is worthlessly useless.
mircea_popescu: that said, a gmp version pushed out as a patch on mpi might not be entirely without merit.
esthlos: mircea_popescu: alright. I've been thinking of writing a v implementation following http://trilema.com/2016/how-to-participate-in-the-affairs-of-the-most-serene-republic/
mircea_popescu: diana_coman right right. 12 was our update.
mircea_popescu: esthlos not a bad idea. what's your language ?
esthlos: mircea_popescu: right now I'm most comfortable in scheme, but I want to change that to common lisp
esthlos: so probably CL
mircea_popescu: afaik no scheme vtron extant.
esthlos: well that works then
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes had something resembling a CL one
mircea_popescu: yes. if you want you cal look up tje log for ben_vulpes ' item or else write your own in cl and compare after.
asciilifeform recommends that n00bz write own, from scratch, without looking even at mine
esthlos: mmk
asciilifeform: btw if esthlos ( or anyone else, anywhere ) knows how to aks on 2048b primes in nongeological time, i'll happily port their algo to ffa, even if original is in cobol
asciilifeform: (err, candidate-primes)
asciilifeform: even something with, e.g., 6 month, run time, can be useful. ( esp. if parallelizable )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform for my curiosity, run the above linked c++ gmp item
mircea_popescu: it is not THAT slow.
esthlos: noob question: why not use a fast nondeterministic algo and sieve on the results?
mircea_popescu: esthlos we're already using m-r.
esthlos: ah
asciilifeform: esthlos: point is , there exists a guaranteed-correct algo. using it, supposing it were practical, is The One Right Thing
mircea_popescu: this'd be a special alternate because we're very unhappy with the fact that a) "everonye" (=usg) uses m-r and b) evidently lies about the strength assumptions.
mircea_popescu: and so we'd like to have an alternative, if for no reason then just to have it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform at this point there's little doubt in my mind that >0 of the items cracked by phuctor were bona-fide keys, composite slipped past the 4+1 round m-r.
mircea_popescu: it'd be worth it at this point to see which of the composite "primes" have the whole set of primes under say 29 as strong liars.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the only 1 that might fit the shape of this item is the german 'research key' one
mircea_popescu: why ?
asciilifeform: the only 1 with factors sized somewhere near half the bitness of the modulus, other than the khadeer key ( which had P == nextprime(Q) , which dun fit the bill )
mircea_popescu: the factors don't matter.
mircea_popescu: a composite that passes a low round m-r can be composite of >2 factors np.
asciilifeform: y'know , this hypothesis is testable
mircea_popescu: this is what i say : reconstruct the original two "primes" of which at least one wasn't ; then see which of such items have in fact low primes as strong liars.
mircea_popescu: it is testable, yes.
asciilifeform: and i'ma test it as soon as dulap-III is up ( btw crate of raid cards just came in last hour )
mircea_popescu: o hey.
asciilifeform: walk the known prime-divisors and see how many pass gpg-1.4.10's litmus
asciilifeform currently suspects that none will, but nobody suspects worth a damn until -- found
mircea_popescu: so the recipe would be, "for every composite N, sort the factors so as to obtain two 2048 bit chunks ; then check whether 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13, 17 are strong liars for the item.
mircea_popescu: iirc there was a "study" showing how "it is enough to test these" for whatever size.
mircea_popescu: (for the record : it is a fact that there exist infinite composites so that their SMALLEST witness is at least ln (n) ^ 1/(3 * ln (ln(ln(n))). yet "cryptography community" keeps doing this small witness bs.)
asciilifeform: place of 'cryptographic community' is the lime pit.
mircea_popescu: for the record, if n = 2 ^ 2048, that limit is ~238.728599954.
mircea_popescu: ie gpg is wasting its time with "oh, let's see if 2 is a witness".
mircea_popescu: and i have a good mind to mandate eucrypt impl of m-r actually uses 2^8 ie 256 as minimum.
asciilifeform loox at http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-18#1753697 ...☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-18 22:30 mircea_popescu: http://yves.gallot.pagesperso-orange.fr/src/aks_gmp.html << supposed c++ impl ; though i have nfi who gallot fellow is.
diana_coman: I suspect the 2 is basically the...potato soup of gpg: cheapest available
mircea_popescu: "worked well for export keys hurr durr snort snort"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform importantly, re the test above : not the ~factors~ must be tested, but the actual composite p or q, as reconstructed from the factors.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: consider how phuctor decided which numbers are 'completely' phuctored , to begin with
mircea_popescu: bernstein smooth parts of integers empowered sieve popped a factor ?
asciilifeform: say i have 2 2048b pieces on the table.
asciilifeform: i'm left with... m-4
asciilifeform: grrrr
asciilifeform: m-r
asciilifeform: to say if 'there's moar' or not.
mircea_popescu: i don't think i follow.
asciilifeform: phuctor finds a divisor. if it is toobig for sieving, i'm left with m-r, when asking whether it is a ~prime~ divisor.
mircea_popescu: aha...
asciilifeform: so from that pov i have no access to the original p,q that gpg may have generated, for any of the keys
mircea_popescu: consider something like
asciilifeform: only to a numbers that are factors of 2 or moar moduli. and they dun come with any certificate of primality, except for the smallest 'dust' ones
mircea_popescu: !#s E668E8C9185CD163C976FB378648E3842D4774D508DB7C3B13C43DB30E92C064
a111: 2 results for "E668E8C9185CD163C976FB378648E3842D4774D508DB7C3B13C43DB30E92C064", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=E668E8C9185CD163C976FB378648E3842D4774D508DB7C3B13C43DB30E92C064
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/EJSOD
asciilifeform: good example.
mircea_popescu: right.
asciilifeform: and the bottom item was reported as a factor on account of each, taken separately, having passed gmp's m-r after the 1st was found.
asciilifeform: makes sense ?
mircea_popescu: yes ; but the first ?
mircea_popescu: was it ever checked whether it would appear prime to koch-gpg ?
asciilifeform: the first passed m-r . it's the only primality test currently in battlefield use.
asciilifeform: not specifically; was tested only using gmp's m-r. really oughta do both.
mircea_popescu: which is my point.
mircea_popescu: or rather, part of my point.
asciilifeform: but it isn't clear to me why weaker koch test would have different answer than stronger m-r
asciilifeform: thinkaboutit, stronger m-r found both to be prime
mircea_popescu: the ~other~ part of it is : suppose (i don't have example ready, but constructively) there's a N that popped into factors f1... fm.
asciilifeform: that's what it'd actually look like, if this animal exists
asciilifeform: rather than '2 fat factors'
asciilifeform: it'd be one of the shit-dust ones
mircea_popescu: each of these factors will have a bitness. admitting none of them has a bitness = 2048, they can be arranged into a p and a q so that each of these has a bitness of 2048
asciilifeform: and we don't know how the shit-dust comes back together to form what gpg thought was primes
mircea_popescu: the thus reconstructed p and q should be tested for whether they indeed have no true witness of compositeness as low as gpg tests.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, we pray. and we try.
mircea_popescu: it's a finite set of factors, they work together into fixed bitnesses only so many ways.
asciilifeform: btw that french aks is geological. n==11701 has been running for 10+ minutes, and is on ~9600; author's code indicates that answer appears at iteration 1000000007. that'd be 723 days on this box.
mircea_popescu: ie, suppose the factors f1... f8 have bitnesses of 1,1,2,2,3,3,2042,2042. so then we try f1f3f5f7 and f2f4f6f8. and we also try f2f3f5f7 f1f4f6f8. and so on.
asciilifeform: for a 14 BIT NUMBER
asciilifeform: and the order is log(n^6)
asciilifeform: if somebody made a practical aks, it is a deep, dark seekrit from asciilifeform .
mircea_popescu: ugh.
asciilifeform: i was hoping to find that i made a mistake, but the numberz check out.
asciilifeform: i'ma let sumbodyelse alsotry, to make sure.
asciilifeform: supposing anyone can be aroused to do it ( g++ aks.cpp -lgmp -o aks )
mircea_popescu: the order IS log^6, which was the great progress, originally it was log^12
asciilifeform: it was aha
mircea_popescu: but the base factor can't be this fucking humongous ffs, it's just (x+a)^n vs x^n+a.
mircea_popescu: (which, i confess, striked/strikes me as a seductively good idea)
asciilifeform: this is one of those things that really begs for dedicated iron
mircea_popescu: it does at that!
mircea_popescu: incidentally...if this is so fucking slow... guess who just found a new pow.
asciilifeform: ( though even there , you'd shed 1 or 2 from the exponent , not earth-shaking necessarily )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: humour me, how wouldja turn this into a pow
asciilifeform: i'ma allears
mircea_popescu: suppose your block hashes to value n.
asciilifeform: ok..
mircea_popescu: let's take a = every other bit of n. to mine this block, you must produce an x so that x is twice the bitsize of n, and (x+a)^n is mod congruent to x^n + a (mod n)
asciilifeform: so miner waltzed his nonce until it's a composite and trivial
asciilifeform: what's to stop him
mircea_popescu: primeness doesn't enter into this, we're just leveraging that apparently modexp is megaexpensive.
mircea_popescu: ie, more expensive than plain shaing
asciilifeform: sha2 (and for that matter other hashes) weren't built to be expensive, quite opposite
mircea_popescu: exactly.
asciilifeform: in applications where people want 'expensive', they ask for 1e6 or whatever iterated hashes
mircea_popescu: but the contention here is that picking something like modexp is a better choice than just piling on hashes.
asciilifeform: it's not necessarily good choice, in that it is very amenable to parallelization
asciilifeform: ( multiplication parallelizes 3 ways , with karatsuba, and N ways with toom-cook )
mircea_popescu: not sure that is a bad thing. but yes, evidently large topic for discussion.
asciilifeform: modexp in turn can be cut into B mod-mults, where B is bitness
asciilifeform: it's a bad thing if you want 'asic-resistant' or even fpga-resistant
mircea_popescu: it's not clear at this stage what you want.
asciilifeform: i was about to say
mircea_popescu: but it's certainly there.
asciilifeform: after 5yr of thinking about it daily, asciilifeform still has nfi what even ought to be asked of a pow !!
asciilifeform: mining intrinsically, i suspect, suxx, and fiddling with pow won't make any dent in it
asciilifeform: ( sucks for the reason, incidentally, that mircea_popescu already fingered , http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-02#1745524 and elsewhere )☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-02 16:22 mircea_popescu: anwyay, revisiting an ancient conversation re http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=mining+is+a+bug : i have to thoroughly concede this point to asciilifeform . the model is as follows : if a) a PoW system exists in which b) a participating entity can recognize work done by itself as opposed to work done by others then it NECESSARILY follow that entity can, and therefore it ALSO follows that it eventually will c) impose further con
mircea_popescu: myeah
mircea_popescu: in other lulz : 32 hectares of land across the strip from the flamingo cost under 1mn in 1962.
asciilifeform: that's, what, 100m in modern printolade neh
mircea_popescu: i have no idea what the item would even cost today. billions, prolly.
asciilifeform: this is in cr ?
mircea_popescu: the strip is in las vegas
asciilifeform: aaaaa
asciilifeform: lol
asciilifeform was scratchinghead, puzzled
asciilifeform: upstack in re 'mining is a bug' , asciilifeform has a theoretical pill, potentially interesting , but will chew on it for some weeks -- there's gotta be a catch
mircea_popescu: maybe say $1k / sqm or so. 32 hectares = 320mn ?
asciilifeform: ( it is specifically a pill against 'can recognize work done by itself as opposed to work done by others' aspect )
mircea_popescu: should be interesting.
asciilifeform: possibly.