log
500+ entries in 0.161s
asciilifeform: chinese examtaker , or the '2030' people mircea_popescu linked, resemble 'fast comp but without rng'
asciilifeform: you wouldn't have to change anyffing else in about it, can pad the unused 2 bytes with rng.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i find myself wondering how many physics folx sit and bite their lips, 'monte carlo dun work so good...', cuz they bought $50k swiss 'quantum rng' that whitens with sha.
asciilifeform: ( my sim -- converged!11 -- when i fed it... don lancaster's geiger rng tarball. )
asciilifeform: if pc had been designed by sane folx, it'd have rng that worx at bus speed, and nobody could have even conceived of this nonsense.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall also how the thing came to be ( was idjit hack, around the fact that 'sshd wants entropy at boot time, before rng init' or somesuch )
asciilifeform: but if i'm overwriting a 8TB disk prior to taking it to crematorium, i'd rather urandom, i dun presently have a 200M/sec rng
a111: Logged on 2018-10-11 19:59 phf: but it also seems that before that becomes reality we either have to patch linux kernel or implement a rng daemon or somesuch
a111: Logged on 2018-10-11 19:34 asciilifeform: phf, bvt : i thought of a possible algo for sane tmp file creation that dun need rng or global counter. 1) pick a file name in tmp dir, if none exists, take empty string, as string S 2) produce S' = H(S) , H is hash (e.g. keccak) 3) stat(S') ; if already exists, take S'' = H(S') and repeat .
phf: but it also seems that before that becomes reality we either have to patch linux kernel or implement a rng daemon or somesuch
phf: asciilifeform: i believe that was the real conclusion of yesterday's conversation: you want easy access to a real rng from any republican process at any time, and that makes a lot of idiotic problems go away
asciilifeform: if you have a working rng, all you gotta do is take 256 bits from it, and no need to stat() or anyffing; the chance of collision is coupla orders of magnitude smaller than asteroid flattening the machine
asciilifeform: phf, bvt : i thought of a possible algo for sane tmp file creation that dun need rng or global counter. 1) pick a file name in tmp dir, if none exists, take empty string, as string S 2) produce S' = H(S) , H is hash (e.g. keccak) 3) stat(S') ; if already exists, take S'' = H(S') and repeat .
bvt: Apparently those addresses are used as 'poor man's RNG'
asciilifeform: ( if rng is sad, absolutely anyffing can happen, and imho this oughta be understood by errybody )
asciilifeform: rng is 'jesus bolt'
a111: Logged on 2018-09-18 14:26 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i wrote the item originally for gossipd experimentations. udp gives a max practical packet length ( what it is , remains to be determined ) and if given proggy's protocol needs variably-sized ones, you can pad with rng.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i wrote the item originally for gossipd experimentations. udp gives a max practical packet length ( what it is , remains to be determined ) and if given proggy's protocol needs variably-sized ones, you can pad with rng.
asciilifeform: ( anybody lacking the secretsalt and currentkey, sees simply 512byte of rng )
shinohai: I was about to say, can take pick of whitened rng's online nau
asciilifeform: ( erry heathen rng i know of , includes... )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there is sometimes 1 or even 2 rs232 ports , but they go at -12v/+12v , and needs level shifter, which in turn oscillates, and potentially pollutes rng
asciilifeform: ( tho perhaps, a FG with only 1 rng plugged in, could be a 'fuckgoat' )
asciilifeform: ave1: simulator won't give you much useful to work with re analogue rng, considering that it relies on amplification of physical (johnson) noise
ave1: I was reading through the fg design (doing experiments with circuit simulators to see how the RNG might work etc). I'll just continue with the next step.
asciilifeform: conceivably rng is separable, can simply be rs232 jack in which e.g. FG goes.
mircea_popescu: am i going to have rng ? how small can it then be ? if not small, and rng, why is it not using a proper terminal ?
mircea_popescu: am i going to have no rng in this wallet ? how make change address then ?
asciilifeform: ( why? because asciilifeform doesn't like to crypto in any form, even as toy, on boxes without rng, and some of his trb dev machines at the time had none )
asciilifeform: esthlos: the one piece of iron which was catastrophically absent was rng, and this was fixed
a111: Logged on 2018-06-15 13:10 diana_coman: phf, please add the last 2 patches of eucrypt: http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/05/03/eucrypt-chapter-13-smg-rng/ and http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/06/15/eucrypt-manifest-file/
diana_coman: phf, please add the last 2 patches of eucrypt: http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/05/03/eucrypt-chapter-13-smg-rng/ and http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/06/15/eucrypt-manifest-file/
asciilifeform: likewise, with a popped unit it will be possible to take multi-GB samples of the onboard rng, and examine this.
asciilifeform: interestingly, a major puzzler was 'how to rng'. most folx used some trigonometric crapola; it ~worked..
asciilifeform: i got various things. problem is that i do not currently have a popped unit where i can see the effect of $manipulation on rng (or any other part, aside from general 'it crashed')
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, how's the rng work ? maybe a bit of electric field can set out 1s ?
asciilifeform: ( the 'rma unlock' 32byte turd, is simply rng output )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: a break of the rng would also do the job. ( admittedly , tall order , but listed for completeness. )
asciilifeform: speaking of which, it's still an open q, what to do re rng on c101pa
asciilifeform: ( the others being the z-whatevers, 2 of'em and i can't recall how they differed, the one with 'z-snark' and other other, with the magical rng seed)
ben_vulpes: the debian rng bug is a good example of hosed RNGs, that's a fine place to start
mircea_popescu: douchebag, 99% of criminals hacking companies are working for a criminal organisation calling itself "the united states govewrnment", and 99% of the time their hacks include some rng-breaking component,.
a111: Logged on 2018-03-28 19:32 asciilifeform: funnily enuff, if working rng were standard on pc, 128bits from it would give unique-gensym ( the supposed problem , according to the gcc nitwits, with mktemp , is collision ) without O(N) searching ( as in mkstemp) with probability ~1
asciilifeform: recall, we already had a 'set top bit and nexprime()' bunch: http://qntra.net/2016/08/phuctor-finds-seven-keys-produced-with-null-rng-and-other-curiosities
asciilifeform: and by extension, for instance, rng ( witness the lack of excitement among heathens in re fg, for instance : 'expensive, and what exactly does this do that my intel doesn't')
asciilifeform: ( http://qntra.net/2016/08/phuctor-finds-seven-keys-produced-with-null-rng-and-other-curiosities in vintage lulz ; still digging for the item above )
asciilifeform: ( where you apply a magictransform to the whole rfc4880 turd, to get a lattice and get the privs; or at the very least, diddled rng that gives e.g. 48 bits of possible keyspace, so nobody finds straight collision, but their asic can walk it, or the like.
asciilifeform: since the debian incident, enemy stepped up the 'NOBUS' crapola; no noar '32768 possible keys, total', instead things moar in the spirit of http://qntra.net/2016/08/rng-whitening-bug-weakened-all-versions-of-gpg
deedbot: http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/05/03/eucrypt-chapter-13-smg-rng/ << Ossasepia - EuCrypt Chapter 13: SMG RNG
ben_vulpes: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2018-5-2#346916 << "On a system I'm testing on, in practice, the RNG just reads the DMI table and then, since the DMI table is way bigger than 64 bytes, immediately moves to crng_init==1 without using even a single sample of interrupt randomness."☝︎
asciilifeform: illustration, so to speak, of the connection b/w 'physical' entropy and the rng one
asciilifeform: there is afaik no adult rng on board ( in what, exactly, is there one ? ) but it has usb socket for FG; and the typical shit webcam for gurl-powered rng in principle.
danielpbarron: diana_coman, a package called sys-apps/rng-tools has a thing called 'rngd'
a111: Logged on 2018-04-22 17:46 asciilifeform: d00d spends his days having 2way convos with his rng.
asciilifeform: d00d spends his days having 2way convos with his rng.
zx2c4: in otherwords, the kernel's built-in RNG
asciilifeform: since you mentioned rng : what source of rng does your system use in a typical configuration ?
zx2c4: when the RNG is backdoored, the ephemerals are compromised, but not necessarily the statics
asciilifeform: 1 caveat re 'brute force needs machine the size of 10^bignum universes running for 10^biggernum yrs' is that it presumes a flat keyspace. whereas if instead you can exclude large chunks ( because, e.g., winblowz rng is known to never output'em , or some other likewise ) ...
asciilifeform: funnily enuff, if working rng were standard on pc, 128bits from it would give unique-gensym ( the supposed problem , according to the gcc nitwits, with mktemp , is collision ) without O(N) searching ( as in mkstemp) with probability ~1
asciilifeform: ideally would want also not merely 'all 0' and 'all 1' but rng, and then to plot time vs hammingweight, and look for correlation
mod6: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/IKJAK/?raw=true << ok with feeding it in with '<' it seems to do somthing here... had some trouble trying to read it directly said 'Could not read from RNG!'
mircea_popescu: The exact micro-chip carries a great impact if perhaps you will be a winner or perhaps a non-winner throughout texas holdem video. The method locations you within the fretting hand will be of value, even now, content material micro-chip commonly known as all of the RNG (Occasional Total Traffic generator) which gives the necessary steps for a professional to manipulate the exact cunning participate in and even botch the possi
asciilifeform: technically it wants ~three~ ttys, one for normal i/o, one for eggogs, one for rng
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the orig prototype rng
asciilifeform: the difference b/w http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-26#1776941 and e.g. koch-rng remains apparent to anybody with half a brain☝︎
asciilifeform: or a defective rng. or hell knows just about every broken-but-running mechanism.
a111: Logged on 2018-01-19 02:22 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, he's evidently not useful. but he's not a logic gate, either. he's certainly not human. the fundamental identification/classification of "i will deliver result X through randomly chosen path each time" is... rng. at least to my mind.
asciilifeform: in the sense where my chair is rng.
mircea_popescu: you ~use it~ as a clock crystal. but what it is... well... it's actually a rng.
asciilifeform: i meant in the sense where e.g. the clock crystal on the fg, is not itself an rng. even tho it has jitter.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, he's evidently not useful. but he's not a logic gate, either. he's certainly not human. the fundamental identification/classification of "i will deliver result X through randomly chosen path each time" is... rng. at least to my mind.
asciilifeform: not one that you'd want to use as an rng, at any rate.
asciilifeform: it ain't an rng if i can compress the output .
asciilifeform: if you like, rng with clearly visible spectral peak.
mircea_popescu: but any implemented oscillator is a... rng ?
mircea_popescu: so this definitionally makes him a meat rng then ?
mircea_popescu: when you say "not meat rng", how do you base this ?
asciilifeform: motl is not a meat rng tho. d00d suffers from a clearly identifiable fixation, 'the west' (tm)(r) where there is a 'capitalism' (tm)(r)
asciilifeform: incidentally the 'pull out rng 'a', then 'b', then 'both', then...' test is a low-tech preventer of 'enemy intercepts parcel and reflashes the cpld to shit marsaglia prng'.
mircea_popescu: alright, i will now proceed to "rng" your lines. starting with above : 21ec922676d4145fbcbc4e1d05436e31ffc45b0b6b30c38f3397840a2111282640ab321b906a9d911af757a3a6b550e8fc9aaffc9089a1ca881d980f60617c9b
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-12#1769493 << very basic specificity-of-diddling lemma. i.e. if i put today's trilema through it, it isn't as if it knows in advance that it ain't an analogue-rng-board plugged in, and what to shit out in response to a trilema that ain't yet been written☝︎
mircea_popescu: rng is not a resonance magic pill, just a resonance de-debugable-izers.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform definitionally, if your rng is any good, it will type out shakespeare every so often.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: almost definitionally, if yer rng is any good, it won't be pumping any resonance anywhere
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: plugging prng in the place of the rng != deterministic algo in the civilized sense
asciilifeform: good rng in fact lubricates convergence in all kinds of sims
asciilifeform: in that case rng. in fact this is almost definition of what trng is for.
asciilifeform: 'what if running on toaster, with no rng'
asciilifeform: ( 'fixed' rng also.. )
asciilifeform: ^ boatload of funstuff concerning , e.g., rng testing methodology; rigorous approach to stego; novel attacks on symmetriccipherolade; various other interesting ( and quite compact ) items.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: actually frag is very capricious item, 'good rng' , 100+ yrs of credible reports of folx within 'guaranteed corpse' radius, surviving with minor injury
mircea_popescu: insanity === broken rng.
mircea_popescu: much simpler than that : if your rng is broken someone somewhere will exploit it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: maybe at some point we auction prototype rng ( asciilifeform has a few , mircea_popescu also, and somebody else i think )
mircea_popescu: (nothing in crypto is useful, either, which severely limits the rng uptake apparently -- if your crypto dun work anyway what need is rng item or somesuch)
mircea_popescu: evidently nothing in crypto is useful without rng ; what's this to do with anything ?
asciilifeform: ( what's the use, incidentally, of a cramershouptron, without sane rng ? )
asciilifeform: and instead sat around uselessly , and wasted time making and selling rng in the meantime also, lol
asciilifeform: ( i for instance have some approximate notion of how many people have an actual rng. the number is not large. )