log
70 entries in 0.462s
asciilifeform: summary in log, iirc was : asciilifeform wrote to rms re the 'libnss' garbage preventing static linking of glibc. rms 0 reply. but when mircea_popescu wrote, rms answered w/ jwzisms.
snsabot: Logged on 2019-06-02 06:48:29 a111: Logged on 2015-04-29 16:24 mod6: asciilifeform: I'm just trying to put together the monthy address; In one to three sentences cna you help me summarize what is going on with glibc/libnss?
a111: Logged on 2015-04-29 16:24 mod6: asciilifeform: I'm just trying to put together the monthy address; In one to three sentences cna you help me summarize what is going on with glibc/libnss?
a111: Logged on 2015-04-06 18:19 mircea_popescu: what's now needed is an expert computer engineer willing and able to take over maintenance of libnss, starting with fixing it so it allows proper static linking.
a111: Logged on 2015-04-29 16:41 mircea_popescu: you can't go "oh i don't use libnss anyway". you probably are.
a111: Logged on 2015-04-29 16:28 mod6: so libnss is dynamically compiled and built/linked to glibc, and can not be avoided?
a111: 62 results for "libnss", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=libnss
asciilifeform: !#s libnss
asciilifeform: but localized the boojum to 'libnss' (which turned out to be component of glibc, and not removable)
a111: 59 results for "libnss", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=libnss
asciilifeform: !#s libnss
asciilifeform: phf: aha, he had a rather odd reaction when confronted with the libnss thing back in the day
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-02-2016#1413047 << we had this very thread a year ago, when first encountered the libnss claptrap ☝︎
asciilifeform: it is how we discovered the libnss thing
asciilifeform: and libnss, etc
ascii_field: not really. if you invoke dns at all in a glibc proggy, you get the libnss idiocy
mod6: <+asciilifeform> now what i can't remember is whether mod6 already had this orchestra working <+asciilifeform> (with glibc+static) << v0.5.3.1-RELEASE basically is not true "static" build because of the gethostbyname() (DNS/libnss) calls in there. but was trying to build static bitcoind with uclibc/gcc on gentoo, was hitting a problem described here before. If you stripped out all of the DNS stuff and then did a build with gcc/glibc I'm thinkin
mod6: <+asciilifeform> mod6: not sure how you intend to build a dns-using thing with uclibc << this is a chicken/egg problem yeah. maybe we can't get it fully built because of the whole gethostbyname libnss bullshit. but if we can at least ensure that it'll link properly, that's huge. then, even if it's not fully statuc because of that, we can amputate dns with your patches and retry.
asciilifeform: and see if the libnss idiocy goes away quietly
mircea_popescu: for the libnss debacle.
mircea_popescu: davec originally thought it was libnss meanwhile found a "retarded languages should be supported too" thing
asciilifeform: the uniquely idiotic error message, 'not found', refers to glibc and its turds (libnss etc)
mircea_popescu: anyway, what would it be doing in bitcoin. waiting for when libnss is yanked out, to kick in.
jurov: just compile namecoin into libnss.so :DDDD
mod6: <+jurov> the libnss was done as binary plugin to glibc << so there is no possible way to just build glibc by hand and not include libnss? or there are basically so many things that use libnss that even if you did, stuff wouldn't work anyway?
mircea_popescu: you can't go "oh i don't use libnss anyway". you probably are. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: mod6 what i mean is, for as long as you use any sort of function touched, whether you yourself use any of the libnss "functionality" or not, its gonna be there
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> ~whether one even uses libnss or not~! << so even if we didn't even call "whatsMyIP()" or w/e it is, this would still be a dingleberry attached to glibc.
ascii_field: note, written prior to the discovery of the libnss thing
mircea_popescu: ~whether one even uses libnss or not~!
jurov: (and btw, it's different from mozilla's libnss)
assbot: 7 results for 'libnss' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=libnss
ascii_field: !s libnss
mod6: so libnss is dynamically compiled and built/linked to glibc, and can not be avoided? ☟︎
mod6: ok maybe that's the part I was missing - how libnss is somehow tied to glibc.
jurov: the libnss was done as binary plugin to glibc
mod6: asciilifeform: I'm just trying to put together the monthy address; In one to three sentences cna you help me summarize what is going on with glibc/libnss? ☟︎
mircea_popescu: perfect word this. "dude, stop with the bydlokodinga!" "did someone bydlokodinga libnss ?"
mircea_popescu: what's now needed is an expert computer engineer willing and able to take over maintenance of libnss, starting with fixing it so it allows proper static linking. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: in the wake of my "who shat the libnss" investigation tptb have agreed something must be done about this.
ascii_field: "libc", from which come incompatible calls to "libnss" functions."'
ascii_field: and other things. It's supposed to make application programs independent of the separately configured actual network environment of the machine. A nice idea, but changes to GLIBC can lead to problems loading it. And you can't statically link "libnss", since it is configured for each machine individually. The problem comes, I think, mainly from statically linking other GLIBC libraries, notably "libpthread", "libm", and
ascii_field: '"I suppose the idea is that everything will be in the downloaded file, so nothing depends on the local libraries on the target system. Unfortunately with Linux, and I think anything else using GLIBC, this still isn't quite true. There's this "libnss" (name service switch, some people seem to call it network security system) which provides functions for accessing various databases for authentication, network information,
assbot: Logged on 05-04-2015 14:21:21; nubbins`: w/e the libnss thing is. details escape me now.
nubbins`: w/e the libnss thing is. details escape me now. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: what was bitcoind using that ended up pulling libnss via glibc ? gethostbyaddr() was it ?
decimation: 6) uClibc does not support NSS (/lib/libnss_*), which allows glibc to easily support various methods of authentication and DNS resolution. uClibc only supports flat password files and shadow password files for storing authentication information. If you need something more complex than this, you can compile and install pam.
decimation: the libnss symbols are present therein
decimation: mircea_popescu: re: libnss < I think it has its roots in solaris
mircea_popescu: no. libnss should not be a package available at all;.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: "linked at all" << (bear with my unsavvy, please) so gcc instructed to build statically should fail to link libnss because it dynamically links to system libs, but gcc instructed to build dynamicall should not fail under these conditions?
mircea_popescu: then rms has to catch hell about "not supporting lldb". how about you know, taking libnss the fuck out with a hot poker.
mircea_popescu: the bug discovered in gcc is that it allows libnss to even be linked AT ALL.
ben_vulpes: so the 'static' build i produced on my deb 6 VM wasn't *truly* static, but claimed to be even though it dynamically linked into libnss on whatever system on which it ran successfully?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'libnss-pgsql: maintainer address bounces' <<< l0l!!!
asciilifeform: the one saving grace is that i'm fairly certain we can shed libnss entirely from this project
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it's outrageous, but hey. can you evaluate the time needeed to patch libnss into behaving correctly ?
mircea_popescu: libnss is not userland.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform & wimc : so rms sez he never heard of libnss before, and can't even recall what it does.
mircea_popescu: so far, i'm a) chasing whoever the fuck broke the world by making an idiotic libnss and b) unconvinced the problem's more than that dns bs.
mircea_popescu: "why do we have dns ? it sucks! " "yes but that's how nsa could figure out how to diddle via libnss"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do you even have a clue why the fuck libnss is made that way ?
mircea_popescu: but otherwise, in vast majority of cases, libnss SHOULD JUST CONTAIN ALL!
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 14:54:13; assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 03:26:58; nubbins`: "glibc uses libnss to support a number of different providers for address resolution services. Unfortunately, you cannot statically link libnss, as exactly what providers it loads depends on the local system's configuration."
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 03:26:58; nubbins`: "glibc uses libnss to support a number of different providers for address resolution services. Unfortunately, you cannot statically link libnss, as exactly what providers it loads depends on the local system's configuration."
assbot: 0 results for 'libnss' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=libnss
nubbins`: !s libnss
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2015 01:18:00; decimation: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2725255/create-statically-linked-binary-that-uses-getaddrinfo <glibc uses libnss to support a number of different providers for address resolution services. Unfortunately, you cannot statically link libnss, as exactly what providers it loads depends on the local system's configuration.
nubbins`: "glibc uses libnss to support a number of different providers for address resolution services. Unfortunately, you cannot statically link libnss, as exactly what providers it loads depends on the local system's configuration."
decimation: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/2725255/create-statically-linked-binary-that-uses-getaddrinfo <glibc uses libnss to support a number of different providers for address resolution services. Unfortunately, you cannot statically link libnss, as exactly what providers it loads depends on the local system's configuration.