log
▁▁▁▁▁▁⏐
trinque: yep, thing works best if there's always a somebody on the other end, of course.
asciilifeform: trinque: there's a pretty good chance that the prize will not be claimed.
trinque: no such automatic reader of address balance is currently in the loop. process by which I confirm deposits is unspecified, varies.
asciilifeform: aite.
asciilifeform: theoretically as soon as phf gets his snake going, and gives green light, we can start.
phf: asciilifeform: so i was going by http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-12#1823998 to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-12#1824022 where you lay out your requirements for "successful crack", which make sense☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-12 19:44 asciilifeform: for my purposes, a proper break is when i can load in arbitrary firmware in place of the vendor's.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-12 19:50 asciilifeform: i'ma brb, teatime
asciilifeform: phf: correct, full overwrite of whole 256kB fw space with arbitrary bits . repeatably.
phf: the discussions after that though are all over the place, and introduce some requirements that i don't think i can arbitrate like "didn't leak the code back to google"
asciilifeform: phf: i described a coupla min ago, upthread, how.
asciilifeform: after $time , phf goes and buys, from amazon, a c101pa , and administers the pill. if it is cured just the same as his current one, the other half of prize is to be awarded.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: It's there now
phf: yes, but if you are going to establish a procedure why do you need an arbitrator, or in other words, i don't see a point of separate arbitrator if the process is your own
asciilifeform: it is to be specified that if during $period the machine becomes unavailable in retail, the 2nd half of prize condition is thereby unmet.
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: ty
asciilifeform: phf: i need an arbiter so as to give players some amt of confidence that rules will not change underneath them.
asciilifeform: and generally treasurer and instigator oughta be different people. as in the trb foundation.
asciilifeform: phf: i fully expect that the winner will want to publish his discovery. hence i would like to give an incentive for him to wait a reasonable time.
asciilifeform: so that i can acquire a supply of curable boxen.
asciilifeform: after that he can go and collect his $500k or whatever, if he can, from enemy.
phf: asciilifeform: i see, i'm sorry, but i don't think i can properly be called a referee under these conditions. i can do independent testing for you though, i.e. test against current c101pa, and against one that i purchase at a time you indicate.
asciilifeform: ok i guess we need a new referee.
asciilifeform: any takers ?
asciilifeform: trinque, wanne be referee ?
asciilifeform: really ideally somebody outside of usa , so they can't simply break down the door
asciilifeform: ... jurov ? diana_coman ?
trinque lacks the machines and spare hands, and yes, ass located square in natoreich
asciilifeform: if we can't get somebody other than asciilifeform to stand up as referee, can't really have this contest imho. and a pill that gets immediately patched against by enemy , is of no use.
asciilifeform: i'm not about to ask mircea_popescu to buy us 500 boxes prior to discovery of pill.
asciilifeform: it'd be a quite pricey pile of poor hammers.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, in between the tank and the valve, fucking bullshit hecho en mexico nonsense.
mircea_popescu: wtf is this world coming to. i just vented a few m3 into the biodiversidad
asciilifeform: dare i to ask why mircea_popescu keeps the tank around
mircea_popescu: eh, amateur metallurgy is a bdsm mainstay.
mircea_popescu: all the collars and whatnot.
asciilifeform: aaaaa
asciilifeform: i considered o2 for the laser, could cut sheet metal if i substituted o2 in place of the air column, but hesitated, keeping tank in unvented shed is invitation for trouble
mircea_popescu: "oh it dun do anything, it's just oxigen" "sure. until the day it does something, then you'll really see a show"
asciilifeform: phooom
asciilifeform: do the pets know not to grease the threads, lol
asciilifeform: ( ever see 'vhs america' film 'man without a face' ? )
mircea_popescu: i dun recall. which was this ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, grease is gone, all teflon nowadays.
asciilifeform: oh hm orig english title was 'darkman'
asciilifeform: trash film. but included scene where 'drinky bird' with greased head was detonator, under o2 tank
asciilifeform: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099365/ << subj
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo, fwi, "No word from oil insiders on interest in the shambling cryptographic provenance solutions still in search of a problem to solve and customers to buy it; but this has not deterred Team Cockchain ("Smokin' it!" ™®) from announcing eleventeen different projects to disrupt this massive industry from its mother's basement." makes 0 sense to me.
asciilifeform: i had nfi mircea_popescu welded !! world turned upside down!1111
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, i was just looking on.
asciilifeform: get'em a tig rig.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824464 << in perhaps better formulation, the very point of having arbiter is so as to avoid exam taking ; the whole point of having "written contract" (import here pizarro's coc, import here the "opposable instrument" thread with trinque, etc) is to permit exam taking. these are contrary design constraints.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 00:07 phf: yes, but if you are going to establish a procedure why do you need an arbitrator, or in other words, i don't see a point of separate arbitrator if the process is your own
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aite, how wouldja do it ?
mircea_popescu: but i'm not doing it, am i ? i dunno how i'd do it ; i'm also not against exercising the doing it muscle, but commetary is part and parcel of the exercising.
asciilifeform: sure.
mircea_popescu: note however that practice is alligned : when you protested (essentially) that the tits thing is being exam-took, i ignored it, specifically because... it was specified!
mircea_popescu: see what i mean ?
asciilifeform: verily
mircea_popescu: gotta pick what you pick ; and as per the common sense notion, if your job isn't a good fit for any tool, your job's not a well defined job.
asciilifeform: as it is, i'm pretty satisfied with my tentative formulation.
asciilifeform: it is not difficult to mechanically test, either.
mircea_popescu: so then whatcha need arbiter for.
asciilifeform: for not being '1 man band'.
mircea_popescu: what's the problem with that ?
asciilifeform: if i can't get another d00d to play the tuba while i do the drums, what merit can there be in contest.
mircea_popescu: so far it's not altogether clear what specifically other dood's to do.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824480 << not to mention he still has a pile of whatever they were, from last time.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 00:16 asciilifeform: i'm not about to ask mircea_popescu to buy us 500 boxes prior to discovery of pill.
asciilifeform: pretty clear imho. obtain a c101pa. obtain the snake ( schematic on asciilifeform's www . ) send to asciilifeform the output of the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-12#1824405 . then, judge prospective winners , under condition http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824459 . if pill permits overwriting all 256k of the chip, with arbitrary contents , we have a winner. then month later, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824462 .☝︎☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-12 23:39 asciilifeform: phf: you will test using your c101pa. and so you will need the debug snake, i will need to put the output of sysinfo , ver , brd , etc cr50 console commands into the statement.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 00:06 asciilifeform: phf: correct, full overwrite of whole 256kB fw space with arbitrary bits . repeatably.
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 00:07 asciilifeform: after $time , phf goes and buys, from amazon, a c101pa , and administers the pill. if it is cured just the same as his current one, the other half of prize is to be awarded.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824502 << right. it's also not a good idea for an arbiter to sign someone else's exam, as if it's anything but. i've offered to run the proposed experiments without arbitrating, but that's not what ascii wants.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 00:30 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824464 << in perhaps better formulation, the very point of having arbiter is so as to avoid exam taking ; the whole point of having "written contract" (import here pizarro's coc, import here the "opposable instrument" thread with trinque, etc) is to permit exam taking. these are contrary design constraints.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: pogo ? they're as usable as ever as soon as somebody gets trb into 256MB, lol
mircea_popescu: >D
asciilifeform: phf: i am happy that you are willing to experiment. and if yer not feeling up to the job of contest arbiter, that's allright.
mircea_popescu: by now they cost more in storage than they cost to acquire, even though patriotic republicans' have been eating the cost for us.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: supply of clean comps will become valuable as the resource dries up, which it shows every sign of heading to do.
asciilifeform: picture if you had piled up x60's 10y ago.
mircea_popescu: in general. but converting the general to practically actionable bits is usually the challenge.
asciilifeform: sure.
mircea_popescu: um... it'd have been a terrible deal.
mircea_popescu: what, x60 are worth money ?
asciilifeform: lol no it wouldn't, i'd prolly buy a coupla dozen.
asciilifeform: and betcha phf ditto
phf: asciilifeform: i'm up for a job of contest arbiter, i don't think that what you're proposing is arbitration. i thought that you're going to give goals, and it's up to me to evaluate if the goals have been achieved. but you want me to merely verify your procedure. that's fine, but that doesn't make me an arbitrator.
asciilifeform: phf: i gave goals, what's the problem again ?
mircea_popescu: the $500 lenovo mini laptop things ?!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the non-ME-intel ones
asciilifeform: actually a pre-lenovo design
asciilifeform: the thing for which asciilifeform made a cured bios
asciilifeform: ( and rms falsely claimed to )
mircea_popescu: i think i have one right here. from ~period. it's a workhorse, sure, and it paid for itself many times over, but...
asciilifeform: point being, yes, in clean and working condition (i.e. with not yet faded tubes, for instance) these are yes valuable.
asciilifeform: and nonrenewable resource.
asciilifeform: remember yer trinitron.
mircea_popescu: somehow i've not bought another.
asciilifeform: betcha you couldn't even if wanted to.
asciilifeform: there are not so many left that have life in'em.
mircea_popescu: i bet you i could, if i wanted to. there's plenty of old crap here.
asciilifeform: precisely OLD crap
asciilifeform: old trinitron, with fade, is worth about fiddybux.
asciilifeform: if that.
asciilifeform: new-in-box , genuine item , was worth about 1k usd few yrs ago. and pretty much extinct last i saw.
mircea_popescu: well like it or not, it's old crap. the thinkpad sitting sadly on a chair is...like 2gb ram and a fucking pentium
asciilifeform: there's oldcrap, and there's simply old.
asciilifeform: oldie goldie.
mircea_popescu: i think you conflate economics and coolness. for one thing, an original trinitron bought the year sony came out with them was like 5k ? or some shit like that. for the other thing, 1k from 1988 is like 10-15k today. so... i don't see the $100k price tag that'd merely cover inflation.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile the same money put in bitcoin went from $2 to whatever the fuck.
asciilifeform: difficult to 'cover the $100k' when lemon market.
mircea_popescu: soooo...
asciilifeform: lemon market is not forever, potentially.
mircea_popescu: same reasoning drives the bolix museumists.
mircea_popescu: and it works ~same for them, too.
asciilifeform: bolix routinely changes hands for price of ~toyoya.
mircea_popescu: and you see the problem with this ?
asciilifeform: i see a number of problems, 'it wasn't worth buying for $ 600' aint one.
mircea_popescu: kim kardashian also routinely changes hands for price of ~lawnmower ; doesn't mean she's any good. they just like having their picture taken with her.
asciilifeform: there's a finite, currently large but monotonically dwindling, number of non-nsa comps.
mircea_popescu: but back to it : i see the value in taking a magic marker to the outside track of google's "drm". i do not see the value in your hairebrained scheme to make a business out of it.
asciilifeform: to precisely price them, is beyond not only asciilifeform , but the gods themselves.
mircea_popescu: (anyone even recall those lulz ?)
asciilifeform: in re pogo in particular, i dun recall a particular +ev biznis plan for'em . they were , in mircea_popescu's exact, iirc, words, a reserve fleet.
mircea_popescu: indeed.
asciilifeform: is what i meant.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the value here is "lol @google", not "oh, ima sell 500 laptops for 0.01 btc profit per".
asciilifeform: incidentally the whole fleet cost about 300 bux; i.e. the cost of 1 c101pa-tron.
mircea_popescu: pretty sure it was a few grand.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hence http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-12#1824234☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-12 21:02 asciilifeform: it isn't even wholly about the machines, from asciilifeform's pov, asciilifeform would like to see the enemy bleed some, hear the laments , see the mules driven before him, etc
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the cost on my end , to buy and transport, was about 300bux. now you can prolly turn this into a few grand, if you compare against 'keep coin in pocket' , sure
asciilifeform: but by this token nothing ever wins against 'keep in pocket' afaik.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, buy and transport what ?
asciilifeform: pogo container
mircea_popescu: dood, danielpbarron had like a whole crate of them.
asciilifeform: speaking specifically of the one asciilifeform delivered
asciilifeform: i cannot comment on danielpbarron's
mircea_popescu: because why ?
mircea_popescu: lol. mkay.
asciilifeform: because i do not know how many mircea_popescu obtained via danielpbarron , lol
asciilifeform: it wasn't my doing , from that point.
asciilifeform: is all.
mircea_popescu: well, say they were 500 heh ? SINCE IT WAS YOUR NUMBER
asciilifeform: say.
asciilifeform: and if comes the hour that we need 500 clean boxes, for whatever, e.g. unattended shortwave relays, there they are.
mircea_popescu: anyway, your design is dysfunctional in that (even allowing for it modelling somewhat close to reality, which i have no faith it does) suppose today someone gives you a working pill, and june 27th google patches the hole. and the someone says "dood, i have nfi, i honestly didn't tell anyone anything".
asciilifeform: what of it ?
mircea_popescu: it's perfectly possible google just fixed it on their own. and now you want phf to decide this somehow ? fucking how ?
asciilifeform: nope, i do not ask phf to decide. the condition is clean cut, like guillotine.
asciilifeform: hole still worx after month ? 2nd half of prize. no worky ? no 2nd half.
mircea_popescu: and you imagine complicated injustice is better than just a shrug and a pat on the ass ?
asciilifeform: player dun like it ? can stuff it.
mircea_popescu: because it ain't.
asciilifeform: i do not see the injustice. contest can ~only~ operate on facts, not suppositions.
asciilifeform: it literally does not matter to me ~why~ hole got closed on 27th.
mircea_popescu: fact is dood gave you what you wanted.
mircea_popescu: supposition -- entirely on your side.
asciilifeform: because player cannot prove that he did not sell it to google on the 5th.
mircea_popescu: nobody is to be held to prove negatives.
mircea_popescu: you also can't prove you don't have cancer.
asciilifeform: exactly. hence the mechanical cut.
mircea_popescu: i should like to see your oncology clinic.
mircea_popescu: as a visitor only, however.
asciilifeform: understand, i have no use whatsoever for a hole that gets sent to google immediately upon discovery. i would not only not pay a coin for ~that~, but would not pay a $1 bill.
asciilifeform: lol
asciilifeform: at any rate currently i dun even have a referee. chances are that there will be no game.
mircea_popescu: yes, but the key to communication, which is what you do when you try to engage others, is that you step outside of what you have need for, and speak of something ~they~ can relate to.
asciilifeform: sure
mircea_popescu: you may have no need, but putative player has no way to control wtf will hapen in a month.
asciilifeform: he does not, correct. therefore he is to be cognizant that he is taking a chance.
asciilifeform: but in any case it must be in his interest to not immediately run to enemy.
mircea_popescu: well, to me this seems a much larger risk than the possible insolvency of alf.
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu can think of some kindler, gentler means of arranging this incentive, asciilifeform is all ears
asciilifeform: but asciilifeform has NO desire to simply pile btc on top of google's 500k or whatver, bounty.
mircea_popescu: seems to me that if the one is looking to eat out of his work, he'll likely not even know you exist. because the sort of people dumb enough to depend on their daily labour for their sustenance while at the same time smart enough to reverse engineer are a very narrowly defined set. one is guaranteedly pantsuit.
mircea_popescu: whereas if he knows about you, it seems altogether unlikely he'd even consider talking to google about it, and for the same reasons.
mircea_popescu: so... i can't imagine the problem you're trying tro approach even exists, which is why i can't come up with a way to solve it.
asciilifeform: by this logic ( and i suspect that mircea_popescu is right , in earlier thread ) there's no point .
mircea_popescu: well looky, i'm not trying to ruin your fun here, but if yo uwant me to try an follow along ima try as best i can. so far, it's not taking me far.
asciilifeform: if it's dead in the water, what fun.
asciilifeform: i dun ask mircea_popescu to stroke my fur and say 'it will all surely work', the gods gave us mircea_popescu specifically to say 'eh this is dumb'
mircea_popescu: it's not even dumb, it's like a pcb with a large hole in the middle.
asciilifeform: funnily enuff i got one of those right here
asciilifeform: worx great
mircea_popescu: lol
asciilifeform: ( it's a radio with air core transformer.. )
mircea_popescu: "hands off my tube tv!!"
asciilifeform recently set up a (rx-only , for nao ) shortwave thing
asciilifeform: !!up loper_os_cr50
mircea_popescu: !!up loper_os_cr50
deedbot: loper_os_cr50 voiced for 30 minutes.
deedbot: loper_os_cr50 voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: MOAR!1
asciilifeform: lol
asciilifeform: loper_os_cr50: hey
phf: asciilifeform: my thinking is that your goals ("didn't leak to google") ought to be separate from the testing procedures ("can buy from amazon in a month"). some of your goals are potentially untestable and it's up to whoever's doing independent verification to come up with the procedure for testing, or dismiss the goal as untestable. then up to you to either find a different arbiter, or agree not to pursue one of the goals. i think that providing both
phf: goals and procedures inadvertently put the arbiter in the position of affirming that the goal has been or been not achieved but without following own procedures. in other words you want me to potentially call that the source has been leaked to google, but rely on a procedure that i can't possibly consider adequate for the verification.
asciilifeform: phf: i'm still waiting to hear why the test algo i proposed, somehow resolves to 'untestable'
asciilifeform: imho it is as testable as 'factor this key'
mircea_popescu: but not as meaningful.
mircea_popescu: "yes, 3=3, however that did not do anything".
asciilifeform: meaningful. i either get a pile of c101pa with rewritable cr50 256kB firmwares, or not.
asciilifeform: pretty simple test.
phf: mircea_popescu: _procedure_ is testable, but it doesn't necessarily verify the _goal_ (following my adhoc terminology above)
phf: err asciilifeform: ^
asciilifeform: if phf can think of a way to 'game' the 'exam', i'm all ears.
asciilifeform: but the problem of making it impossible ~mechanically~ is unsolvable in the general case. and cannot be done in any contest, this or other.
asciilifeform: hence the role of referee.
asciilifeform: imho i have described enough of a mechanical litmus, that a referee can stand on solid ground.
asciilifeform: phf: if you still feel like refereeing, feel free to propose own set of procedure , to asciilifeform .
asciilifeform: ( if 'he made this bizarre algo and i cannot make heads or tails of it' is the obstacle )
mircea_popescu: consider this : i set up a tent at porcfest, advertising "mp slavegirl intake". and there is sure enough a lengthy line of bikini clad beauties before it. i also put slavegirl in tent, and instruct her to reject the ugly ones. ugliness is "mechanically testably alf 3.o" defined as "lacks third tit". end of day, my slavegirl's pretty downcast.
mircea_popescu: "what the fuck is your problem ?" "i just spent all day telling teenagers they're ugly because they don't have three tits".
phf: i don't think "can still buy and diddle of amazon in a month" is adequate test for "didn't leak the patch to google". but i don't think there's a procedure to test the goal in general (see absence of evidence above). perhaps you could restate the goal, but then whatever restatement i'm not sure it will be under the control of the participant. in fact as mircea_popescu pointed out, a restatement of this particular goal simply introduces a random element
phf: outside of participants control to the game.
asciilifeform: phf: it is impossible to make the receipt of the 2nd half of prize fully in the hands of the player, this is entirely correct.
asciilifeform: however there MUST be some incentive not to go straight to enemy.
mircea_popescu: maybe you should offer marriage
asciilifeform: lol
asciilifeform: i dun swing that way..
mircea_popescu: a review of extant literaturer shows this is the only known-to-work example of a cut to your problem.
mircea_popescu: well, scholarship only helps in the way it helps, what can i tell you.
phf: gentleman's word, if only there was a mechanism to verify a gentleman's trustworthiness
asciilifeform: i dun see what's wrong with a 'pill WILL work month later, even if you have to go and hbomb google hq' clause. )
asciilifeform: formulated simply as 'to get other half of prize, it will be the case that vendor update month from submission day, does not contain patch for hole'
mircea_popescu: "get third tit implants!! UGLY FUCKERS!!!"
asciilifeform: lel
mircea_popescu: it may be the case, now and again, that your own fetishes aren't a worldwide concern.
asciilifeform: if were 'worldwide concern' problem'd be licked already, neh.
mircea_popescu: see ?
asciilifeform: hence idea, i put actual coin in.
mircea_popescu: i don't think money works like you think it does.
asciilifeform: likely not !
asciilifeform: i dun think i actually disagree with mircea_popescu , re: whether there will be a winner.
asciilifeform: quite likely there will not.
asciilifeform: what i would like to avoid, however, is the fucking trannies.
asciilifeform: the 'whinners', if you will.
mircea_popescu: this is a more difficult thing than you think.
asciilifeform: it isn't trivial. but i can only with difficulty picture a contest where it is easier than in this one.
mircea_popescu: the more i think about this, the more i want alf to be in charge of all sorts of things. imagine alf-run horsetrack.
asciilifeform: esp. given a politically reliable ( and why shouldn't he be ) referee.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: do they still have human referees at horse tracks ? i thought it was all laser nao..
mircea_popescu: "this opera is only good if building not flooded during a nine week interval after itwas played"
mircea_popescu: "to prove it was not insult to god of the rain"
asciilifeform: actually plenty of biznis worx like this. i had a squirrel exterminator make precisely this guarantee, on paper.
mircea_popescu: as a statistical approach.
asciilifeform: 'if they reappear in $period, obligated to rework for $0'
mircea_popescu: your remedy is... he comes does it over.
mircea_popescu: right.
asciilifeform: legendarily , in ming china, doctor was paid while patient was alive and healthy
mircea_popescu: hence -- marriage. that prostitution contract whereby if the fuck doesn't take, worker's obliged to re-do.
asciilifeform: we're contemplating a 4 wk marriage, of sorts, i guess.
asciilifeform: if iran can have 4hr marriages, why not this.
mircea_popescu: maybe ~THEY~ don't swing that way ?
asciilifeform: maybe!
asciilifeform: i mean, already ~all i expect from $contest is a slightly taller than usual pile of 'you suxxx!!' mail
mircea_popescu: this is starting to sound like addiction!
asciilifeform: lol
asciilifeform: but if it dun get tried, than it won't have been tried. or sumthinglikethat.
mircea_popescu: i'd like alf state lottery. "if you win and after 10 years are poor, you win again"
asciilifeform: thus far asciilifeform seems to be the only one among the thinking folx who thinks that this idea had any life in it. so i suppose i'll shelf it for nao..
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: naaa, moar like 'if you win and poor after 10y, we sell you into afghan goat slavery'
mircea_popescu: i think the principal result of the discussion is, "can't have multi-pronged or articulated contests"
mircea_popescu: either can have arbitered contest, which defines a goal in human lang ; or else can have exam, which defines a final state, in machine lang.
asciilifeform: well as i understand it , mircea_popescu dun like one of the proposed goals because it includes an element of chance
asciilifeform: (i.e. 'what if enemy , on own power, finds the hole within $period' )
mircea_popescu: no, the objection is to the mix. if you want to specify, then you must specify. if you're going to "incluide an element of chance", then the specification pretense is spurious.
mircea_popescu: there's no such thing as chainsaws sold with elements of chance.
asciilifeform: what exactly is wrong with 'if, for any reason whatsoever, pill doesn't work in fw released on aug 1, the 2nd half of prize will be returned to the pot contributors' ?
mircea_popescu: that it sounds exatly like a scam.
mircea_popescu: consider : i give you pill, you sell it to google, you tell me it's my fault.
asciilifeform: all contests promising coin sound like scam, neh
asciilifeform: who even believes that coin can be had.
mircea_popescu: or you never even thought of this ?
asciilifeform: of course thought.
mircea_popescu: so then ?
asciilifeform: player only trusts us ( well, referee in person ) in so far as he trusts.
mircea_popescu: and if you want to be trusted, why aren't you trusting ?
asciilifeform: which is 1 reason why such contests are thin on the ground.
asciilifeform: because i trust heathens about as far as i can throw'em ?
mircea_popescu: what can i tell ya.
asciilifeform: i suppose we can revisit $thread if somebody l1 says 'i wanna referee'...
phf: also contest starts around the time that ascii publishes articles on subj, conceivable that someone else decides to look at the cr50, white hats a vulnerability to google.
asciilifeform: phf: also possible !
asciilifeform: what can i say.
asciilifeform: thing is more or less guaranteed to get some attention in enemy camp.
asciilifeform: on top of whatever massage already done ( and much as i hate to say it, it seems like a fairly high quality boobytrap )
asciilifeform: y'know, sorta like those italian all-plastic mines with three anti-handling detonators.
asciilifeform: all in all, i'd rather not have the contest at all, than to chance to give coin to fucking alice_m to add coin cherry to the top of a google bounty cake.
asciilifeform: phf: speaking of which, consider the easiest winner , if the anti-patch condition is absent -- a google shitmonkey who knows the hole already and 'wins' on the monday right prior to patch tuesday.
mircea_popescu: it's entirely there, that's exactly how this "foss" shit works, by sexiness.
mircea_popescu: there's even a trilema about it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, overwhelmingly likely.
mircea_popescu: and who thereby makes you an instrument of fucking up the market for people who genuinely put sweat in. and so on.
asciilifeform: aha.
phf: asciilifeform: yes. a bounty is open to all comers, even the dude's brother.
asciilifeform: phf: right, hence the '2nd half' clause.
asciilifeform: but if it can't be done to mircea_popescu's satisfaction, i'd rather not do it at all.
mircea_popescu: i tell you i dun see this as it stands.
phf: "wanted: johnny pistolas. $1000 dead or alive. bounty not accepted from relatives."
asciilifeform: phf: no, again, 'bounty not accepted if he turns up alive within month of 'his' head being brought in'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, notice how well arbitering works! i have no way to specify ~whether~ im actually paying a coin into this shipile or not. NOR DO I CARE. i'm just letting you arbiter.
mircea_popescu: phf, "bounty $100 paid for any information of whereabouts of dangerous criminal, except if he shoots the police and escapes"
asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu doesn't see how the contest can be set up without creating a refereeing clusterfuck, or enriching alice_m, then i refuse to ask him to put any coin into any such thing.
asciilifeform: but if one of the folx tuned in, knows how to make the binomial add up, plox to write in.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, honestly, it was a pretty entertaining and informatrive discussion, by my lights. what mosfilm always wanted to make and never managed.
asciilifeform: verily.
mircea_popescu: !!up kiboneu
deedbot: kiboneu voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: cnomad, having trouble with the dingbat ?
cnomad: yeah
mircea_popescu: do it here.
cnomad: is the competition you guys are referring to for popping that chip?
cnomad: !!up
deedbot: You must be registered.
cnomad: idk w/e
asciilifeform: cnomad: yes
mircea_popescu: trinque, wth ?!
mircea_popescu: !!key cnomad
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/7BD5B50222D7457B9710CF728D6436492F4A69AF.asc
mircea_popescu: cnomad, might have run into some oddball bug or something, we'll see what maintainer sez.
asciilifeform: he doesn't show up in the deedbot www yet
asciilifeform: but possibly that one's nonrealtime
cnomad: so, some advice, if you want -- competition format for long term research is not a great motivator, since it doesn't guarantee that someone will get paid for their time
mircea_popescu: that one -- once a day. but afaik "is registered" == "!!key outputs"
asciilifeform: cnomad: we ain't about to pay for 'tried'
cnomad: like if 2 ppl work on the chip, someone pops it first,
asciilifeform: at least, asciilifeform isn't
cnomad: right but you see what I'm saying?
asciilifeform: certainly.
asciilifeform: there is no solution, however.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, understand the problem he describes. if arbitrarily prize is 1k, work required to pop is 1k, and 1k people participate, you are likely to pay about 0.5 per unit work.
cnomad: you need to assemble a team of people and pay them according to a statement of work.
mircea_popescu: yes you pay 1k for the pop ; but the long graph of sub-1k effort adds up to maybe even multiples of 1k.
asciilifeform: yes, and there is not actually, afaik, any possibility of a solution to such a problem.
mircea_popescu: anyway, ima be off to steaks. laters!
cnomad: success isn't guaranteed but you could make a lot of headway for future research
cnomad: anyway, just food for thought
trinque: gpg: 7BD5B50222D7457B9710CF728D6436492F4A69AF: skipped: unusable public key
asciilifeform: cnomad: i ain't about to sponsor a team of lunch eaters.
trinque: as the case tends to be
trinque: so lemme go see why
trinque: expired, as usual.
asciilifeform: cnomad: idea of contest, i found appealing because 1) inexpensive 2) simple , relatively, to administer, and does not require 'teams' of jobsworths.
trinque: cnomad: why did you put an expired key into poor deedbot?
cnomad: no it expires in november
cnomad: prolly looking at a subkey
trinque: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/qtQcw/?raw=true
asciilifeform: cnomad: all of your subkeys seem to have expired
trinque: I'm looking at what ended up in deedbot's keyring when you fed it that key
asciilifeform: the newest, in 2016.
asciilifeform: are you posting through a time-warp, cnomad ?
asciilifeform: cnomad: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/7Gkmk/?raw=true << subj
cnomad: pub rsa4096/0x8D6436492F4A69AF 2015-11-14 [SC] [expires: 2018-11-10]
cnomad: 7BD5B50222D7457B9710CF728D6436492F4A69AF
cnomad: uid [ultimate] Kiboneu <*@kibon.eu>
cnomad: sub rsa4096/0x493D43E595D52480 2015-11-14 [E] [expires: 2018-11-10]
asciilifeform: not in this key !!
trinque: also use the paster next time
asciilifeform: the paste shows what is in the key that deedbot saw.
asciilifeform: cnomad: somehow you gave deedbot a key from before you re-signed the rsa4096/0x8D6436492F4A69AF one
asciilifeform: ( prolly you kept it around somewhere ? )
cnomad: oh
cnomad: i guess i didn't update my site
cnomad: one moment
asciilifeform did this at least 1ce, prior to 'fucking, i'ma dispense with the expiration nonsense'
cnomad: ok update my site
cnomad: anyway
cnomad: it might be harder to assemble a team than a contest, but you'll prolly have better results
asciilifeform: revisiting upstack : i categorically refuse to pay for any cr50 related work that does not produce a working and practically applicable pill. because there is no way to ensure that 'paid to advance art' rather than 'paid 10 derps' mortgages and student loans'
cnomad: well that's where reputation comes into play
asciilifeform: cnomad: on the contrary, the shitstack that passes for modern pc and its soft, is result of 'hire a team'.
asciilifeform: i want no part of this.
cnomad: heh
cnomad: ok
asciilifeform: it'd be an invitation for every possible fucking parasite, not to mention 'law abiding citizens' etc
asciilifeform: cnomad: at any rate, if you read today's log, you will know that there probably will not be any such contest.
asciilifeform: seems like nobody can figure out a satisfying set of rules.
trinque: cnomad: expect me to go looking for your key or what?
asciilifeform: cnomad: you gotta re-reg that key, if you want it to work
asciilifeform: with the nonexpired one.
trinque: no, he has to hand it to me now in a paste
asciilifeform: aa
cnomad: trinque: https://kibon.eu/kiboneu.asc
trinque: no, I'm not doing this for you again in November.
cnomad: ok then don't
asciilifeform: cnomad: i recommend to switch off expiration, it never did anybody any good.
cnomad: i'll get to it when i get to it
asciilifeform: ( there is a historic thread on the subj, that i cannot presently find )
trinque: what's this 14 year old cunt routine now?
asciilifeform: trinque: cut the fella a bit of slack, he doesn't yet grasp that he's come to olympus, thinks he's in village pub still
trinque: this isn't comcast technical support, might find me getting to it when I get to it too.
cnomad: you're the one who asked me
cnomad: lol
cnomad: anyway, good luck with your project
asciilifeform: doubt we'll be seeing him again.
asciilifeform: might have to wait another yr to get a new n00b with half a brain.
asciilifeform: ( i daren't to even dream about finding ones with ~whole~ )
asciilifeform: 'in the great birdlessness, my arse is a nightingale' -- asciilifeform's grandfather .
trinque: deedbot has to be one of the longest running and most reliable services here
asciilifeform: i have 0 complaint re deedbot.
asciilifeform: nor do i expect trinque to massage folx on demand and for phree.
asciilifeform: i'dve let this one live tho.
trinque: I dun recall kicking, or even telling the guy to leave.
asciilifeform: '14 year old cunt routine' to uninvested intelligent n00b is not so diff. but watever.
asciilifeform: possibly easily disheartened folk, we're better without, this is defensible. i've nfi.
trinque stopped what he was doing to help, guy couldn't lift a finger.
asciilifeform: d00d prolly saw 'wtf masonic ritual, why am i here, in kitchen there is vodka and it won't drink itself'
asciilifeform: but sure.
asciilifeform: speaking of which, i'ma bbl.
mod6 is finally caught up
mod6: evenin'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, did you just cost me a dime ?
mircea_popescu: in other news, this doris thing sure knows its steaks!
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824822 << the sad part is that work has to be done whether it produces anything or not.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 01:49 asciilifeform: revisiting upstack : i categorically refuse to pay for any cr50 related work that does not produce a working and practically applicable pill. because there is no way to ensure that 'paid to advance art' rather than 'paid 10 derps' mortgages and student loans'
mircea_popescu: though, amusingly, the costa rican standard of food service is "solo bueno", which literally means they'll waive charges for items you didn;t like.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: if d00d never returns, he'll get gc'd at some point, neh
mircea_popescu: not afaik ?
asciilifeform: ( trinque , what exactly is done to these ? )
mircea_popescu: i'm in an impossible situation, on one hand this happens to be the correct approach i'm deploying, not dumbass contests. on the other...
mircea_popescu: "oh, don't send bitcoin to noobs unprepared to appreciate what it is".
mircea_popescu: fuck me rwanda.
asciilifeform: fwiw asciilifeform doesn't throw coins at folx who aint even truly born yet. but asciilifeform worx with much smaller budget .
mircea_popescu: and how do you get them to "truly born" ?
asciilifeform: varies. i dun recall e.g. spyked , or ave1 , getting coin thrown at
asciilifeform: ( tho iirc ave1 did get a FG at some point )
mircea_popescu: i have no idea what you're talking aboot.
trinque: any transfers the dood got are right there, waiting for him to politely give me a nonexpiring key
asciilifeform: trinque: out of curiosity, how come deedbot even cares re the expir date thing ?
asciilifeform: what's the win
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc the track record of folx given 'easy' coin early in their life as a wotperson, is poor
asciilifeform: e.g. kanzure
mircea_popescu: oh , he got anything ?
asciilifeform: you gave him whole coin !
asciilifeform: sight unseen
mircea_popescu: but yeah, i guess it's becoming quite the antisignal huh.
asciilifeform: ( mircea_popescu also gave asciilifeform whole coin in 2012. but bahaha asciilifeform gave it back with interest. so duncount!111 )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, you and the blondy chick. recall her ?
asciilifeform: hm which one
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2013/internet-story/
asciilifeform: aa !
asciilifeform: she did even better , yea
mircea_popescu: 2013, softer market.
lobbes: phew. I tell you, if there's one thing a dumbphone is good for it is for keeping up with mega-logs while out and about
mircea_popescu: i believe.
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824467 <- hm, that sounds more like a guarantor of sorts than an arbiter?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 00:08 asciilifeform: phf: i need an arbiter so as to give players some amt of confidence that rules will not change underneath them.
spyked: revisiting the allwinner arm blobulism discussion for a moment (re. http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-08#1821639 and maybe other threads). I've looked at the olimex shithub repo ( https://github.com/OLIMEX/DIY-LAPTOP/tree/master/SOFTWARE/A64-TERES ) and there are indeed some binaries that I can't trace to any source, namely: the kbd firmware and the 'scp.bin' blob. olimex also include a boot0.bin (no idea why, since this is also generated☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-08 13:41 asciilifeform: re upstack -- i do not currently have an 'allwinner', cannot comment re its uboot definitively.
spyked: by uboot) and a 'bl31.bin' (again, no idea why, bl31 "secure runtime" crap is part of arm bsp).
spyked: I've also found some work aimed at replacing some blobs ( https://github.com/crust-firmware/crust ), but I've currently no way of checking whether that really works (don't have an allwinner board atm), so this is where my digging stopped.
mircea_popescu: spyked, ill tell you why. cuz most "geeks" that are "interested" can't compile anything.
mircea_popescu: if you include the bins they get to play-pretend along. MOAR USERS
mircea_popescu: scp.bin prolly implements scp (securecopy)
mircea_popescu: as in http://pentestmonkey.net/blog/rbash-scp
jurov: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824587 dpb sent the crate to me, don't remember whether he kept some. i planned hosting, recently found out the designated "colo" place got rainwater leaks, postponed☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 00:53 mircea_popescu: dood, danielpbarron had like a whole crate of them.
mircea_popescu: ah!
mircea_popescu: jurov, don't worry about it or anything, i mostly use it as an ideal construct to smack alf over the head with educationally.
spyked: mircea_popescu, that's what I thought too, but it's a different item. apparently a binary for separate core in allwinner SoCs, http://linux-sunxi.org/AR100 prolly their version of fritz chip.
mircea_popescu: oh
mircea_popescu: i confess my guess was based on ~nothing.
spyked: (I also have no idea what "scp" would stand for in this case. fun fact: all the open sourced bits for "sunxi" SoCs are full of comments in chinese, so they could have named it 馬公雞, same thing)
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, some chick named her account illuminaughty.
mircea_popescu: intelligence and a working intellect exist online like uranium in the fucking sea. "it's definitely there!" "really ? go get some ?" "ummm...."
mircea_popescu: !!up loper_os_cr50
deedbot: loper_os_cr50 voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: aand who might you be, loper_os_cr50
asciilifeform: spyked: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824913 << i picked rockchip for the arm64 experiments ~specifically~ for not having this.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 12:56 spyked: mircea_popescu, that's what I thought too, but it's a different item. apparently a binary for separate core in allwinner SoCs, http://linux-sunxi.org/AR100 prolly their version of fritz chip.
asciilifeform: ( and not, as some might think, using a dartboard, lol )
asciilifeform: allloser chipset -- suxx.
spyked: yeah. well, as to how it specifically sux, it's now in the logs. prev. discussions had me believing that it's a potential alternative to the rockchip.
asciilifeform: !!up loper_os_cr50_
deedbot: loper_os_cr50_ voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: loper_os_cr50_: hello ?
asciilifeform: spyked: it is an alternative, of sorts. but quite intel-like in re blobulism, is the idea.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824918 << eh U in the sea is ~plentiful~ in comparison !☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 13:07 mircea_popescu: intelligence and a working intellect exist online like uranium in the fucking sea. "it's definitely there!" "really ? go get some ?" "ummm...."
asciilifeform: ( you can reliably get it out! merely -ev energywise )
mircea_popescu: i... also can...
asciilifeform: lolyes
mircea_popescu: scaling encounters some problems.
asciilifeform: 'world's greatest magician cannot pull a rabbit out of a hat unless the rabbit is actually in the hat' or how did it go.
mircea_popescu: it's there, they're just all effectually crippled. like dood that has enough sense to not try going at it without fume hood who nevertheless doesn't enough sense to recognize that "you asked for it" is a very poor excuse indeed for registering an expired key.
asciilifeform: lol maybe he read our mega-thread re how gpg expiration is bogus
mircea_popescu: it's the exact equivalent of "aluminum is not available in the crust [because it's chemically bound with crap so strongly we don't know how to tear it apart [until electrolysis is made possible by cheap electricity]]".
mircea_popescu: "even the greatest magician can't produce metallic aluminum from sample until he has hydro plant"
asciilifeform: aha, similar. ( in washington there is a gigantic monument , tipped with fist-sized piece of aluminum, pre-electrolysis / alcoa co. , when it was priceless ; prior to being installed on monument, thing was exhibited in new york, folx were permitted to... step over it, in a museum, 'i stepped over washington's monument!11' )
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824917 << https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlTnKsekQMs☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 13:06 mircea_popescu: in other lulz, some chick named her account illuminaughty.
mod6: mornin'
phf: Vexual: didn't make it all the way to catskills, Shawangunk "the gunks" Ridge
asciilifeform: meanwhile , in sad noose, cr50 apparently would be a 1st-class bitch to fully replace, it ( among errything else ) also does the power brick negotiation thing
asciilifeform: ( usb-c bricks output no voltage until elaborately asked, via somewhat gnarly serial protocol )
asciilifeform: granted, the details are all in the sores.
asciilifeform: 'smart' power supplies, srsly, plague
mircea_popescu: it really should be discouraged.
asciilifeform: discouraged lol. it's a pestilence.
mircea_popescu: i'd rather have replacement brick than entertain this.
asciilifeform: i'd like a whole replacement machine, sure.
asciilifeform: ( incidentally, the 'now you can charge from ordinary usb!' was a bait-and-switch crock of shit, plugging usb-c into ordinary usb doesn't supply even 10% of the needed current, what the thing does with its brick is to negotiate a much higher voltage, up to iirc 40v )
asciilifeform: admittedly the brick is a standard part, rather than a googlism. but still ugly.
mircea_popescu: this "smart" things trend is fucking intolerable.
asciilifeform: oblig : http://thomas-grogan.com/drm-chair << 'smart' chair.
asciilifeform: there was an earlier version of this lul, where it had a credit card reader and retractable spikes, but i cannot now find it, it was from early age of drmism
asciilifeform: http://wearcam.org/seatsale/ << oh here it is.
asciilifeform: 2001.
asciilifeform: i'm almost surprised that it didn't take off commercially.
asciilifeform: fritz chip, when senator fritz first demanded it, was seen as ~equally sad joke. but nao life.
mircea_popescu: i find it SO fucking infuriating the all-soviet pioneer morons actually go about pretending like that idiocy is ~anything but~ the most laughable thing ever...
mircea_popescu: really, it's fucking time to express how this bs is not socially acceptable by social exclusion, ostracism and violence.
mircea_popescu: no fucking tolerance for the pantsuit jesus fucking christ wtf.
asciilifeform: the time was 1995 or so.
asciilifeform: today the tumour is the size of a beagle, and the patient is almost nowhere to be seen
mircea_popescu: hey, i beat hippies in the 90s until my hands fell off.
mircea_popescu: somehow apparently they all went home to sulk and make tardbook accounts.
asciilifeform: and asciilifeform in his old flat killed vermin with poison, traps, in the end with own hands and crowbar, didn't reduce population of mice and rats in the city noticeable.
asciilifeform: *noticeably
asciilifeform: seems like the approach has limitations
mircea_popescu: yeah, the limitation being all the fucktarded nurturing idiots in the "civilised world".
mircea_popescu: it's gonna be such an open season of old woman head on pike soon enough. "but what did i do ?!" "you were someone's mom in the 90s/00s weren;'t you ?" "yes i was!" "fuck you, bitch."
BingoBoingo: Reddit bags and live reddit bagcams
mircea_popescu: instead of telling daughter how she'd better take 1st place at tailhooker's coed beauty contest if she wants any supper, there she was "raising awareness" about "equality in the workplace". well now!
BingoBoingo: Al Gore, end of History!
BingoBoingo: In other parasites: "The University of Oxford is being mocked for an email in which administrators suggested that the "highly developed social conscience" of students draws homeless people to the city of Oxford"
mircea_popescu: paduche la paduche trage.
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in intelisms, 'the content of FP registers owned by another process can be speculatively detected...' etc
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824947 << heh, of course i just received mine today.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 15:15 asciilifeform: meanwhile , in sad noose, cr50 apparently would be a 1st-class bitch to fully replace, it ( among errything else ) also does the power brick negotiation thing
asciilifeform: phf: didja build the snake ?
phf: started yesterday evening, haven't finished yet. probably today or tomorrow
asciilifeform: it's still conceivable that we find overflow in tty or spi slave etc handlers, or the like
phf: well, if we don't, i'll see if i can get an unlock through corporate channels, and just use it as a one off machine
asciilifeform: and i'm still curious what an elephant-killing dose of gamma would do to the cr50.
asciilifeform: ( per the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-11#1822402 discussion )☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-11 15:46 asciilifeform: one interesting observation, is that the update mechanism lets you flash in arbitrary crapola into 'rw' section ( it simply won't jump to it if it doesn't pass rsa(sha256(payload)) ) . so theoretically could put a nop sled there, ending with jump into the magic half of unlock routine. and then expose the thing to beta/gamma, and perhaps in a few months it will Do The Right Thing
asciilifeform: phf: i was thinking of producing a coupla dozen snakes, to hand out to people, but per yesterday's mircea_popescu thread it seems not to be worth it
phf: asciilifeform: i think you _might've_ misunderstood the thread. the point seem to have been not so much that the whole attempt is pointless, but it's the framing that was questionable. if you make a couple of snakes and send them at own expense to interested l1/l2, i don't see how it won't be worthwhile. we just don't have any idle reversers, who want to take a stab at it for the lulz, available at the moment.
asciilifeform: possibly
asciilifeform: any folx in l1 who would like to saw away at c101pa but lack the snake ? plox to write in .
asciilifeform: l2, even.
asciilifeform: iirc i pointed this out in recent past, same snake can be used to tickle recent intel boxes also. ( but i have not explored this. )
asciilifeform: pretty much every machine with usb-c, afaik, will respond to it.
asciilifeform: ( e.g. certain 'android' pnojes )
phf: asciilifeform: "Sadly, the result of loading this URL was… a _a_ GMail login prompt. So I log in with a GMail account, and get:"
asciilifeform: phf: fixed, ty
asciilifeform: phf: out of curiosity, what didja mean re 'corporate channels' ?
asciilifeform: got insider in the belly of the beast?
asciilifeform: afaik they dun sell rma codes for money
asciilifeform: ( unlike, say, certain pnoje makers, where you ~can~ ransom the unlock )
asciilifeform: my current understanding is that the 'rma unlock' thing is used during factory refurb, so asus et al prolly have it
phf: asciilifeform: i suspect chromeos partner console is on a need to have basis. if it's just oem partners, then i'm out of luck, but if there's some flexibility there, then yes, there are official channels
asciilifeform: phf: see if you can get 1, if can also get 2... it'd be useful for glitching experiments
asciilifeform: ...and potentially for dpa experiment. rma unlock , turns out , generates a disposable seekrit ( good for N tries, i fughet what N is ) , encrypts to google's ecc pubkey, and expects to be given the magic string back, to unlock
asciilifeform: in a rigged fw, could run this routine and watch for dpa correlates.
asciilifeform: the 'add 5% random NOPs during hashing' is not a watertight pill against dpa.
asciilifeform: but would need at least 1 actually popped cr50 chip, to tune the probe.
asciilifeform: if one could guess the 32byte magic even 0.01% of the time, could unlock a unit in a day or three.
asciilifeform: likewise, with a popped unit it will be possible to take multi-GB samples of the onboard rng, and examine this.
asciilifeform: in other lulz, 'The signature verification routine in Enigmail 2.0.6.1, GPGTools 2018.2, and python-gnupg 0.4.2 parse the output of GnuPG 2.2.6 with a “--status-fd 2” option, which allows remote attackers to spoof arbitrary signatures via the embedded “filename” parameter in OpenPGP literal data packets, if the user has the verbose option set in their gpg.conf file.'
asciilifeform: and '...interprets user ids as status/control messages and does not correctly keep track of the status of multiple signatures, which allows remote attackers to spoof arbitrary email signatures via public keys containing crafted primary user ids.' etc
BingoBoingo: This country https://i.imgur.com/Zj8UjUj.gifv
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: oblig : https://img.rl0.ru/da67425f076e7e571c331f7c178db99b/c615x400/news.rambler.ru/img/2018/01/16194608.333147.9461.jpeg
BingoBoingo: 4srs
asciilifeform actually bought some matte and prepared what he thought was the traditional чифир-style tea, on coming home from BingoBoingo , was woozy for whole day
BingoBoingo: It can do that
asciilifeform: amazing, sometimes, what people will drink.
BingoBoingo: Definitely, out of curiosity what kind of Yerba was it?
asciilifeform: dunno, box was labeled simply 'matte'
BingoBoingo: Any stick and twigs?
asciilifeform: definitely sticks, twigs.
BingoBoingo: Ah, Argentino crap
asciilifeform: classic chifir material.
BingoBoingo: The uruguayos prefer a stronger hit, nothing but leaves and powder
BingoBoingo: But, a big difference is they don't boil the mate water with toxic plant material already inside it
asciilifeform: i didn't either, lol
BingoBoingo: AH
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1825027 << traditionally chifir is made with http://fb.ru/misc/i/gallery/44825/1701533.jpg☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 19:04 asciilifeform: classic chifir material.
phf: even back in shalamov days they made it "со слоном"
asciilifeform: funnily enuff that stuff is still sold
asciilifeform: right here in usa even
asciilifeform: point was, the matte people prepare their leaves the same, compl with stems.
asciilifeform: no slon on the box, but same grade of grass shaving rubbish.
phf: ah ah
BingoBoingo: Related: https://www.subrayado.com.uy/demolieron-bocas-venta-drogas-que-estaban-construidas-predios-publicos-n506403 << Early morning (7am!!!) drug raid nets 125,000 pesos and 900 USD. 20 kilos of assorted drugs. 5 houses bulldozed. Entire barrio of Malvin Norte shut down during the lollarity
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> point was, the matte people prepare their leaves the same, compl with stems. << In argentina and (apparently) DC. Here they are like pot smokers and frown on stems.
BingoBoingo: Meanwhile a Police officer attempted to get a firearm into "Penal de Libertad" (The Freedom Prison) by stuffing it in a Nintendo https://www.subrayado.com.uy/funcionario-intento-ingresar-un-arma-escondida-una-consola-videojuegos-n506311
phf: heh, the kommuniti consensus around recent intel bugs is "don't do crypto on cpu, that's what tpm is for"
mircea_popescu: ahahaha
mircea_popescu: !!up loper_os_cr50
deedbot: loper_os_cr50 voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824856 << to be plain, the argument is "hey, you just watched this dood produce broken reasoning in the vein of replacing 'it is my responsibility to register you rightly told me i fucked up the process, for which i am ashamed as i should be, it is after all my responsibility to have my keys' with 'you asked me to register [therefore you somehow owe me somthing, you totally weren't pointing☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 02:09 trinque: I dun recall kicking, or even telling the guy to leave.
mircea_popescu: out my factual and utterly obvious shortcoming], i'm doing you a favour, tough breaks for you that '''the server''' was out of date [which totally isn't my failure, inasmuch as it was my server, that's why i keep it around, to randomly dissociate when things happen]' without skipping a beat. it's therefore reasonable to expect similar breaks from reality to be triggered in similar circumstances. inasmuch as the setting broken
mircea_popescu: bones hospital doesn't jump on the broken bones to make the point the bones are broken, might as well abstain from pointing out to 14 yo cunts captive in 40yo reverse engineer's bodies that they're transparently and for everyone evidently 14 yo cunts."
mircea_popescu: that said : i don't specifically care either way, but now explicitly.
mircea_popescu: in any case, the "unhappenings" we've been laughing at aren't ~alien~ technology. they're how the victims of child abuse react to the world "naturally", in the sense of, having had it browbeat into them by the shameful harpies of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824975 ; both in the family and at "school" / football practice / we.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 15:42 mircea_popescu: it's gonna be such an open season of old woman head on pike soon enough. "but what did i do ?!" "you were someone's mom in the 90s/00s weren;'t you ?" "yes i was!" "fuck you, bitch."
mod6: Hi all, Pizarro is working on some advertising materials - in particular banner ads that can be placed on blogs / sites. We'll be coming up with some sort of amount we can pay for advertisers per month to have this up on their homepages / main pages.
trinque: it's fair; I can be slightly more tolerant of noobery
mod6: I just created one, and I encourage all involved to throw their hat in the ring. Typical sizing I have found for these are: 446px x 63px
mircea_popescu: trinque, hey, i'm specifically not even asking you to. fuck them, let them learn to live in the world before asking the world to change to accomodate.
mod6: http://www.mod6.net/pizarro_banners/pizarro_banner1.png
trinque: aite
mircea_popescu: but you can also directly see how it's now a case of "oh, i didn't shake hands with mp RETROACTIVELY because I SAY SO" and all the rest of the http://trilema.com/2018/the-problem-with-christians/ bullshit just from there.
mircea_popescu: they're christians, ergo stupid, what can you do. nobody knows.
mircea_popescu: mod6, are you passively asking me something ? because if yes then yes, a) very slow and b) why so passive about it.
mod6: Not asking thing from you, no.
mircea_popescu: kk.
mod6: I want to get more advertising for Pizarro going, and I thought I would just drop this in here so other republicans are aware if they wanna help pitch in on the banner effort.
mircea_popescu: ever looked into the clickbank thing ?
mod6: No, will take a look.
lobbes: Nifty mod6. Likewise, I'll add 'banner ad space for sale' to my radar as I continue to filter the ocean
mod6: lobbes: cool!
mod6: I was thinking that if L1/L2 people around here want to emplace a banner on their blog to help drive some traffic to PizzaroISP.net and earn some btc, let us know.
mircea_popescu: lobbes, you figure out the clickbank too.
mircea_popescu: it'll have to be figured out.
mod6: Meanwhile, yeah, we'll be looking into other sites, etc.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1824992 << something like that.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 16:56 phf: asciilifeform: i think you _might've_ misunderstood the thread. the point seem to have been not so much that the whole attempt is pointless, but it's the framing that was questionable. if you make a couple of snakes and send them at own expense to interested l1/l2, i don't see how it won't be worthwhile. we just don't have any idle reversers, who want to take a stab at it for the lulz, available at the moment.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1825006 << i'll certainly be very interested of hearing a yes/no to this, secretly even, because so far i've not been getting anywhere (as per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-12#1824240 etc ). curious if perhaps im doing something wrong.☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 17:44 phf: asciilifeform: i suspect chromeos partner console is on a need to have basis. if it's just oem partners, then i'm out of luck, but if there's some flexibility there, then yes, there are official channels
a111: Logged on 2018-06-12 21:04 mircea_popescu: also, i can say it is extremely unlikely your preliminary "thousands" figure is correct.
ben_vulpes: second step in clickbank signup is "who do you bank with and what's your ssn"
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, the reason it's interesting is that it is the de-facto home of ~anyone left who's still doing cpa.
mircea_popescu: sorta like you trying to get into porn -- you can't complain about "having trouble with gfy.com", and so on.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1825015 << what "software development" even is for. this great foss movement that gave us so many wonderful things, such as a firm guarantee to the usg that there's AT LEAST a little idiocy in everyone's computer no matter what.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 18:56 asciilifeform: and '...interprets user ids as status/control messages and does not correctly keep track of the status of multiple signatures, which allows remote attackers to spoof arbitrary email signatures via public keys containing crafted primary user ids.' etc
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1825019 << i'm pretty sure that's the point, they can't afford pot but gotta be as spacey as proper californians to not burn down the entire fucking country. and so...☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 19:01 asciilifeform actually bought some matte and prepared what he thought was the traditional чифир-style tea, on coming home from BingoBoingo , was woozy for whole day
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1825040 << they have that stuff here too, "arrested drug ring, confiscated a few benjies in currency". it always boggles the mind.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 19:39 BingoBoingo: Related: https://www.subrayado.com.uy/demolieron-bocas-venta-drogas-que-estaban-construidas-predios-publicos-n506403 << Early morning (7am!!!) drug raid nets 125,000 pesos and 900 USD. 20 kilos of assorted drugs. 5 houses bulldozed. Entire barrio of Malvin Norte shut down during the lollarity
mircea_popescu: lobbes, alternatively, if you find actually interesting banner selling ppl i'll both pay you for the effort and buy their banners to help take some load off zee pizarro. you have almost enough here to start your own "digital media" agency, just need to hire some worthless ditzen now and is all set!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the uruguay locals ? they eat (yes, eat) pot by the pound, it looked like
asciilifeform: street vendors errywhere peddling 'magic pies'
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: i was talking of the argentards.
asciilifeform: aa
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1825076 << as far as i can tell, their Official policy is to never admit that the thing even exists ( aside from the src, which is gnarly enuff , i suppose , to 'not count' somehow )☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 20:29 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1825006 << i'll certainly be very interested of hearing a yes/no to this, secretly even, because so far i've not been getting anywhere (as per http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-12#1824240 etc ). curious if perhaps im doing something wrong.
ben_vulpes: seems like clickbank wants to own the entire payment flow, and looks at first blush to only eat credit cards
mircea_popescu: possible. in other similar lulz, juicy ads (whom, incidentally, i remember from the days the dood starting it was a junior/nobody with a "new project!!", 15+ years ago) refuses to deal with crypto because "we are respectable company".
mircea_popescu: they mostly lost the will to live, white men.
ben_vulpes: i'll survey the 'crypto'/cpa space and report back
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1825043 << remember 'clipper' ? never died, immortal, just gets rebranded erry so often☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 19:54 phf: heh, the kommuniti consensus around recent intel bugs is "don't do crypto on cpu, that's what tpm is for"
mircea_popescu: scarcely worth the bother, that. "crypto"-x as in, "a crypto ad network" is totally another way of saying http://trilema.com/2014/bitcoin-in-argentina-exactly-nothing-to-do-with-the-derps/#selection-197.0-197.39 ; ie, "that website some kid made and meanwhile forgot about"
ben_vulpes: > "Community: access to insights of a 1000-strong community of marketing professionals, who focus on the blockchain industry" << sheesh
asciilifeform: re tpmism : i predict many great lulz of the fyootoor , when google et al roll 'bitcoin' support into cr50 etc
asciilifeform: youreaditherephirst!11
mircea_popescu: imagine, if you will, 1k bleating heads collected in a room. even admitting you're http://trilema.com/2017/damele-dameleee/#selection-175.1-175.78 and can make the list of the top 1k "blockchain industry" professionals, correctly sorted desc.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, it'll be ethereum. bitcoin, like trilema ~also~ something official policy is to not admit exists (aside, of course, how it's what they save in / read themselves).
asciilifeform: '...and this here is the airport wallet inspector master key jack. got a problem, terrorist ?'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: likely
asciilifeform: 'root of trust'(tm)(r)
ben_vulpes: 40 btc starter package! www.icobox.io also all "success stories" successes are denominated in usd
ben_vulpes: they'll make a landing page for another 4 btc
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: site last updated in 2013 or wat
mircea_popescu: i remember one time hanbot went through "crypto credit cards"
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: "or apply for basic 40 btc package for free!"
ben_vulpes: and on the next page "Apply for ICO services worth 20 BTC for free."
lobbes: mircea_popescu: deal! I'll let you know if I find anyone of interest.
ben_vulpes: https://archive.is/pWbrV << potter's hustle in the news again
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: recall, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-24#1818041☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-24 16:13 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-24#1818018 << i'm quite certain that they will have a show trial or two for 'putin's wreckers' who 'manipulated the price upward'
ben_vulpes: looks more like a "the price isn't the real price because it's too high to be the real price and here's some proofy proof" to me
ben_vulpes: notice no knives for phil
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: moar of a 'we're about to dump a bit moar stolen coin on the waterfall so here's some smoke screen'
ben_vulpes: wasn't that last week's "hack"?
asciilifeform: regular installments, asciilifeform tbh does not follow subj in realtime
asciilifeform: 'The authors of the new 66-page paper do not have emails or documents that prove that Bitfinex knew about or was responsible for price manipulation. The researchers relied on the millions of transaction records that are captured on the public ledgers...' << lol
asciilifeform: 'helped government authorities and academics spot suspicious activity in the past' << didjaknow.
ben_vulpes: i had some suspicious activity in the alley around my trash last week, where's my blockchain analysis support
asciilifeform: the van's been dispatched!1
mircea_popescu: i like how they say "the new", as if it's somehow a workable substitute for "the stupid"
mircea_popescu: who the fuck cares how new it is ?!
mircea_popescu: don't tell me the implication would be that "we've already" the old.
mircea_popescu: anyway, for the record we agree -- price's way the fuck too high consider what the republic can provedly do as of yet.
asciilifeform: hey, it isn't as if the academitards don't always create 'new' 'paper' via same foo | bar | baz template spammers use ( as posted in mircea_popescu's www on at least 1 occasion )
mircea_popescu: ikr ?what fucking "new", the last time usg produced something new hruschev was still wearing his shoes.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: expand re 'too high' ?
mircea_popescu: does it seem to you a maybe-isp, a mmorpg, some we don't have REs and some novel length fiction warrants a 100bn valuation for the republic ?
asciilifeform: from asciilifeform's perch, 'valuations' are voodoo , i have nfi either way
mircea_popescu: something like that.
mircea_popescu: but i mean, as far as anyone presently knows, 100% of all bitcoin trade consists of http://logs.minigame.biz/search/?q=total+bids
mircea_popescu: that... ain't so much.
asciilifeform: pizarro is afaik the only moving part we've got that at all feels the exch rate
mircea_popescu: well, it's not even started to publicly exchange yet.
mircea_popescu: iirc that was for this month ? or next ?
asciilifeform: good q ; hey ben_vulpes , did you ?
ben_vulpes: next month
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-23#1817767☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-23 17:18 ben_vulpes: i intend to do this for the july bills.
mircea_popescu: next month.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i did say 'next parcel somebody other than asciilifeform ' , recall
asciilifeform: after prev refuel
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: you'd better have one
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: made arrangements; wire's been sent already and cash is in discussion
asciilifeform: ok.
mircea_popescu: well, they got the whole local bitcoins thing iirc.
ben_vulpes: plus BingoBoingo has done good work in lining up local exchange partners
asciilifeform: that was what i meant in re 'the only part that feels the btc exch rate'
asciilifeform: considering that a good % of the current subscription base is paid quarterly (or even 1yr ahead) -- exch rate is not irrelevant
mircea_popescu: only in the "fuuuu" sense.
asciilifeform: hm?
asciilifeform: ( i.e. in the sense where its movements cannot do any serious good, only damage ? then yes )
mircea_popescu: in the sense where "o god, paid in advance, at much higher nominal rate"
asciilifeform: can go in either direction, neh ?
mircea_popescu: indeed.
mircea_popescu: this movement'd have greatly benefited a hardware heavy isp (in the vein of http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-04#1445680 ) ; it greatly hurts a forward-payments / unearned income isp as pizarro stands☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-04-04 19:10 mircea_popescu: this plan to stockpile proper chips etc goes hand in hand with a republic-isp, incidentally, becauyse who else to own hardware
mircea_popescu: but, the sums involved aren't that great anyway.
asciilifeform: exch rate oscillation has potential to be a palpable headache, like solar storms for space station
mircea_popescu: much moar shield-able, fortunately.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes mod6 possibly you oughta consider a couple mo. of usd 'shielding'..?
asciilifeform stepping outside of his expertise and prolly oughta stfu re subj
mircea_popescu: what, and turn it into a financial speculator ? usually firms go that way after making so much revenue they run out of capital goods they might buy
mircea_popescu: wester union eg, went that way.
asciilifeform: what's the proper method to shield, then
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: i am similarly poorly equipped to speculate/trade, but now at recent lows strikes me as a bad time to convert btc to cash (unless it goes lower, ofc)
mircea_popescu: well, consider the situation in the field. the unearned income acct hurt, in that pizarro will have to service in the future in excess of current fiat value ; the capital goods acct helped, in that the servers it owns are worth more in btc than they were when bought.
asciilifeform: i haven't any idea is it's a local min or the beginning of a slide back into 2015 or whichever way, my voodoo is weak
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aah i think i get it. 'iron is the master of them all'(tm)(r)
mircea_popescu: in this direction.
mircea_popescu: yes, if pizarro had 10 btc worth of gear end of q1, then pizarro'd have had 15+ btc worth of gear today.
mircea_popescu: it didn't, so it could be argued it "missed out" on earning 5btc for its principals. but that argument, like any other icahn-speculative truths, is weak.
mircea_popescu: still : cash position protects against fiat depreciation (which is why unearned income acct hurt, it's a negative cash acct) ; whereas tangibles position protects against fiat appreciation.
mircea_popescu: currently the financial position of pizarro is long cash / short tangibles (90/10 or something like that is the split iirc ?) meaning it will gain when fiat depreciates and lose when it appreciates.
mircea_popescu: a more even split makes the "solar winds" 0-delta.
mircea_popescu: hence, "more easy to shield"
asciilifeform: logical.
mircea_popescu: really, there's a lot of similarity between the job of the CFO (which... i gues... is what i'm doing here ?) for a company and the job of a captain of a fore-and-aft rigged vessel.
mircea_popescu: "get the rigging match the wind".
asciilifeform: this model makes a great deal of sense, and kudos to mircea_popescu for showing it
mircea_popescu: mp.
ben_vulpes: illustrative, ty mircea_popescu.
asciilifeform: the naive picture in asciilifeform's head has , in this light, moar resemblance to piece of driftwood, than sailboat
asciilifeform: i'd like to upgrade to the sailboat.
asciilifeform: ( sailing on a driftwood is a depressing experience )
mircea_popescu: lol. ever been in dead water ?
mircea_popescu: it is indeed depressing. like traveling in the desert, come to think of it.
ben_vulpes: "you: wiggle the till. and you! get me a beer"
asciilifeform: i've not personally captained anyffing bigger than rowboat, lol
mircea_popescu: kinda why boat should have nude babes, distract one when this happens.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes, quite.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, weren't you about to move on the high seas, lefty from mullbery st. ?
mod6: ahoy
asciilifeform: same 'about to' as to mars, lol
asciilifeform: similarly out of my price range.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu painfully educated me on subj.
mircea_popescu: and what a fun adventure it was! :D
mircea_popescu: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_Ruggiero << historical character.
asciilifeform: ah good old dayz d00d
asciilifeform: when nyc still had working garbage pickup etc
mod6: ls
mircea_popescu: aha. actually these were the garbage guys.
mod6: gah
mircea_popescu: gah: command not found
mod6: :D
mircea_popescu: wouldn't want to shock your expectations :D
mod6: thank you for being our parser, Sir.
mod6: this kvm is gonna be the death of me
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1825128 << How big was their donkey?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 21:14 ben_vulpes: i had some suspicious activity in the alley around my trash last week, where's my blockchain analysis support
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-06-13#1825058 << mod6 ben_vulpes work out a handshake with mircea_popescu so that i can put this on phuctor www☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-06-13 20:20 mod6: http://www.mod6.net/pizarro_banners/pizarro_banner1.png
mircea_popescu: go right ahead, i dun see the problem.
mircea_popescu: well... maybe have them make something the same size as other items there ?
asciilifeform: yea
mircea_popescu: ie http://nosuchlabs.com/fg/snsa.jpg
mod6: We intend to pay for the advertising, unless nosuchlabs wants to put it up for free as a friend.
asciilifeform: i was about to link to this yea
mod6: I have some more that I just threw up on my site; a few to pick from: http://www.mod6.net/pizarro_banners/
asciilifeform: mod6 can haz pic corresponding to dimensions of linked jpg ?
mircea_popescu: btw, asciilifeform : the phuctor design is narrow. plenty of space to put stuff on the sides, rather than bottom, if you wantr.
asciilifeform: it's narrow cuz asciilifeform uses narrow screens, lol
asciilifeform: but potentially can be fiddled with
mod6: asciilifeform: hm? images i created are, 446px × 63px
asciilifeform: mod6: my jpg is 320 wide
mod6: vert image is the reverse 63px x 446px
mod6: oh
mod6 looks
asciilifeform: currently i'd prefer horiz
mod6: ok yours is 320 x 132 px
mod6: You want me to make one that size, I think I can make a special one. Lemme tinker on it here.
asciilifeform: just the 320 dimension
asciilifeform: ok
mod6: you dont care how long it is?
mod6: or tall?
asciilifeform: dun care how tall
asciilifeform: within reason
mod6: i gotta creat a new one, gimp is limited, or im a bit limited in is usage. i'll make 320 x 132 if that's suitable.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, if you're going to do this, best think about it, specify the site for it.
mircea_popescu: "i dun care how tall" is a recipe for disaster down the road.
asciilifeform: for quick emplacement, would like to have 320x132 then
mod6: on it
ben_vulpes: ty asciilifeform, mircea_popescu
mircea_popescu: !!up Disavowed
deedbot: Disavowed voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: !!up dw
deedbot: dw voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: aand who might you two be ?
dw: i pointed Disavowed here, found your site via lobsters about a week ago :)
Disavowed: Hey - cheers for having me :)
mircea_popescu: sure.
mircea_popescu: but... i still don't know much.
dw: we are admirers of your fine essays and eager to subscribe to your most serene republic
dw: (and idle)
mircea_popescu: yes, but i mean... can you do anything useful ?
mod6: http://www.mod6.net/pizarro_banners/pizarro_nosuchlabs_banner1.png
mod6: asciilifeform, mircea_popescu : here it is, let me know if you'd like any changes ^
asciilifeform: mod6: this looks pretty good. where would you like the link to go ?
mircea_popescu: if this ever takes off you can do two things : a) have a banner rotator and b) have monthly or biannual or w/e spot auctions.
mod6: asciilifeform: http://pizarroisp.net/
mod6: the thing has a home/landing page now devoid of all statements/blog info, so this is good.
mod6: mircea_popescu: ah, good points
asciilifeform: mod6: i'ma put it in later today, thx
mod6: no, thank you both!
asciilifeform: mod6 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu et al : it's live ( see e.g. http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/stats )
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/06/german-government-divided-as-interior-minister-decides-to-skip-migrant-integration-summit/ << Qntra - German Government Divided As Interior Minister Decides To Skip Migrant Integration Summit
BingoBoingo: I suppose Qntra can put up a banner as well
ben_vulpes: if you would that would be great BingoBoingo
mod6: asciilifeform: nice! thanks :]
mod6: BingoBoingo: cool!
mircea_popescu: and in today's harem cocktails : in a cocktail glass (the inverted cone on a stem) put shaved ice, cover with cinzano rosso, splash of cointreau.
mircea_popescu: alternatively, squeeze bitter orange, i guess.