trinque: first off, I wrote the makefiles, mod6 modified. speaking of political fog.
asciilifeform: i'ma summarize the v thing : if you have a proposed new v algo ; and it would turn my 1kB patches into 1MB, and my readable 3 lines into 100kLoc of ?#@%$*(@%% , and my trivial machine-diff-verifiable changes into 'why dontcha sit for 5 years doing eyeball-powered diff' -- it is NOT an improvement. and i won't touch it. sign it. sign anything made on it. etc
trinque: second, does my memory deceive or did the thing end up with a comment in an *unrelated file*
asciilifeform: trinque: you did , hm, didntcha
ben_vulpes: db.cpp, init.cpp, several
asciilifeform does not recall who made each item unless said fact was preserved in nakme
asciilifeform: *nazme
asciilifeform: grr
asciilifeform: name
trinque: ben_vulpes: don't cloud the politics with facts!
asciilifeform: lol
ben_vulpes: but this is the magic political speshul case of a patch that ties together other patches for the political object that is a release!
asciilifeform: trinque: it in fact put comments in unrelated file. just as i described must be done to tie up strands, when i released v
asciilifeform: note that this is an item you have ~option~ of doing.
asciilifeform: if every patch were forced to do it, you could not have a tree at all -- only radiating spokes.
asciilifeform: try it yourself.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: there is nothing mechanically 'speshulcase' about it, the vtron has no dedicated execution path for it. it'sa patch like any other.
asciilifeform: and it is the correct way to coalesce strands.
trinque: this is nonsense. people can choose any prior state whatsoever as basis for a new patch.
asciilifeform: if asciilifeform misread trinque's scheme somewhere -- will reread. but my current understanding is that it is exactly equivalent to signing tarballs. like in dark ages.
trinque: it's certainly easier to criticize that way, isn't it
asciilifeform: you can sign tarballs right now. i dun see why to even use a vtron then.
asciilifeform: trinque: is the observation factual or not ?
asciilifeform: how does $scheme differ from the old practice of signing tars ?
trinque: you are *already* naming arbitrary antecedents in this ad hoc manner of ~meaningless~ junk edits that do not well convey why they happened by sitting there.
asciilifeform: but they aren't meaningless. they signify 'you will have ~this~ db.cpp and ~this~ db.h and ...'
trinque: I proposed two schemes to better model it, and actually like the second better. one was including the entire concatenation's hash in a vpatch. the second was being able to name arbitrary antecedent files without the requirement that diff material follows
asciilifeform: trinque: let's consider the 2nd then
asciilifeform: suppose this algo were in use. and it is time for trinque to write the 'makefiles' patch . how does the latter coalesce the strands ?
asciilifeform: ( btw does trinque have an existing variant-vtron that i can look at the output of ? )
trinque: by simply naming the files that would've received the junk-comments as antecedents, with hash of their expected state
trinque: there are two questions conflated here; 1) what is the expected state of the patient and 2) what is to be done to him
asciilifeform: understand, trinque , asciilifeform does not suffer from an irrational hatred of people who start with letter 't' , and thereby balk at $algo. asciilifeform genuinely does not see how it results in anything other than a http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765616 horror show.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-06 00:00 asciilifeform: i'ma summarize the v thing : if you have a proposed new v algo ; and it would turn my 1kB patches into 1MB, and my readable 3 lines into 100kLoc of ?#@%$*(@%% , and my trivial machine-diff-verifiable changes into 'why dontcha sit for 5 years doing eyeball-powered diff' -- it is NOT an improvement. and i won't touch it. sign it. sign anything made on it. etc
asciilifeform: hey trinque why dontcha write your variant vtron. then we'll talk about the output. rather than this headache.
asciilifeform: i promise to try it.
asciilifeform: this is what distinguishes us from the apes, we can do experiment, rather than argue over empty table.
trinque: certainly will
asciilifeform: >> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-27#1759157 << see also!111☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-27 07:13 mircea_popescu: o the fuck he is!!! ie, the world's heavyweight champion. ayer explained that he's the ex wykeham professor of logic, and since they're both pre-eminent in their respective fields, how about they indulge in discourse rather than intercourse. oddly enough tyson accepted, and naomi campbell slipped out -- apparently undamaged enough by the experience to actually do those not-even-terrible shots with madonna.
asciilifeform: this goes for anybody else who has a crackpot alt-v
asciilifeform: post the coad!
asciilifeform: in unrealated noose, massive reorg on zoolag
asciilifeform: 5 ( possibly 6 ) -high
asciilifeform: anybody else see one ?
ben_vulpes: > 2018-01-06_00:29:50.97891 REORGANIZE
ben_vulpes: how are you determining dpeth of reorg?
asciilifeform: mistakenly, lol
asciilifeform: it's the typical 1.
asciilifeform: ( as shown by maxheight pre- and post- )
asciilifeform: i really gotta automate this 'meta' , the existing 'eyeball-powered' one is rather laughable.
asciilifeform: !!up luny
deedbot: luny voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: luny: who might you be ?
asciilifeform: !~later tell phf plox to snarf http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/ffa_ch4_ffacalc.vpatch.benvulpes.sig , ty
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: hey ben_vulpes didja ever sign ch3 ??
asciilifeform: i have a ch4 for ben_vulpes but not a ch3...
asciilifeform: or hm nm
asciilifeform: !~later tell phf plox to snarf http://www.loper-os.org/pub/ffa/ffa_ch3_shifts.vpatch.benvulpes.sig .
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: if there's anybody else who signed , but not currently visible in http://btcbase.org/patches/ffa_ch5_egypt in appropriate spot -- plox to write in.
asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/rvNE2/?raw=true << for convenience -- who i have so far.
ben_vulpes: figured that you would find it eventulolly
mircea_popescu: now let's see if this log can be caught up with.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765023 << sadly, not in this language. but otherwise, the german school is the canonical introduction ; read ye yer kant, then proceed to http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=frege (not the other fucking way around ; english is a liability to the thinking man, and the latter's accessibility a burden).☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 17:50 lobbes: In other incidental preguntas: mircea_popescu, can you recommend good "introductory" reading on the subject of thought classification? It seems like the obvious fundamental to improving my cognitive processes
mircea_popescu: and since this was mentioned : "kantian ethics", ie the item on which lazy-because-dumb-because-lazy-because-dumb-because esltards have gelled in their attempt to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1764883 ie spuriously pretend "oh, WE ALREADY DID KANT!!" etc is about as relevant to the man's work as newtonian alchemy is relevant to newton's work.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 07:03 mircea_popescu: other than the lovely "if you launched all pantsuit in outer space, do you expect seti would manage to find any ?" putdown, valuable lesson from naggum : inept bureaucrats / insufferable cucks / other "people themselves" try to barnacle their inept nonsense (in original, scheme) on pre-existing "brand" (as they perceive it ; in the original -- lisp) for the transparently transactional reason that this way they "get to" (as th
mircea_popescu: so do not fucking dare read anything having any ENGLISH SOUNDING NAMES anywhere at any point involved, which includes the fucking best grip.
asciilifeform: watsa 'best grip' ?
mircea_popescu: absolute ban on english as an avenue to this much in the same way absolute ban to barking as an avenue to opera. i don't care if you're a dog and i don't care if barking comes naturally to you
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform job on movie set, ~handyman.
asciilifeform tries to think of most recent englischer worth reading... ...turing??
mircea_popescu: hey, there's plenty, just not really on the topic [i inferred him to have] asked.
mircea_popescu: but yes -- russian translations of kant, fichte, heidegger, husserl, spinoza, frege absolutely acceptable ; heck, even ro ones are fine. french is getting iffy.
asciilifeform found eng frege ~inedible
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's a place where he was integrated into the borg, but it's a dubious weld.
asciilifeform: and come to think of it, damn near any eng trans of substantially complicated philosopher
mircea_popescu: anyway, it's funny how englischer "german school" goes kant-schopenhauer-karlziggler-hegel"ians"-nietsche-clinton.
mircea_popescu: what the everloving fuck already, car-paintjob-toenails-sunscreen-beachbod.
mircea_popescu: exactly a problem of "where the fuck is your engine" ie http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763930 ie "your problem is that you aren't fucking thinking. AT ALL."☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-04 17:11 mircea_popescu: they had all sorts of (utterly nonsensical) "cars of the future", their features being that they were "warlike" (in a dysfunctional, anti-mechanicistic, looks-are-everything-and-hot-beats-cute girl pov) and that they had mechanisms exposed
asciilifeform: oblig eco : http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-08#1537275☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-09-08 15:53 asciilifeform: ' fauns, beings of double sex, brutes with six-fingered hands, sirens, hippocentaurs, gorgons, harpies, incubi, dragopods, minotaurs, lynxes, pards, chimeras, cynophales who darted fire from their nostrils, crocodiles, polycaudate, hairy serpents, salamanders, horned vipers, tortoises, snakes, two-headed creatures whose backs were armed with teeth, hyenas, otters, crows, hydrophora with saw-tooth horns, frogs, gryphons, monkeys, dog-
mircea_popescu: and, for completeness : leaning german off kant is perfectly acceptable manner of learning german altogether, for the sufficiently intelligent ; much like learning greek off homer.
mircea_popescu: contrary to what pantsuit may be whispering in ear, "here i am, with this 10lb book of which i can read not a word" is a very poor predictor of failure.
mircea_popescu: "now we're getting somewhere" better predictor of failure ; and there being english names anywhere inside the item -- almost perfect predictor.
esthlos: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20180105/#802 << I have an intuition that this is missing a higher symmetry. Why not use v for prose documents?
scriba: Logged on 2018-01-05: [19:03:26] <mircea_popescu> as i say -- i see no way out here ; we'll end up with the v-code + blog-commentary ostrich-camel and god help us./
mircea_popescu: esthlos because if put in separate places they'll automatically personalize ; hence the blogposts comment.
mircea_popescu: !!up jpx__
deedbot: jpx__ voiced for 30 minutes.
jpx__: sup
esthlos: hmm...is there a way for reflow not to break diff...
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765028 << lmao this guy. YOU PUT IT THERE! and moreover... what is the logic of "begins to suspect that ~nobody actually read ch5" when "it survived nearly a week of asciilifeform rereading whole thing every day." ? DID YOU NOT READ IT ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 17:53 asciilifeform: ^ bug. shame on everybody, for not noticing.
mircea_popescu: who might you be jpx__
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765066 << this inevitably led to mention of knuth which in turn makes one realize tex existed originally exactly because http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765177☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 18:12 asciilifeform: well, let's reread http://trilema.com/2015/no-such-labs-releases-v-for-victory then :
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 19:01 mircea_popescu: in any case, here's the logic : the proximate cause of the failure of "computer science" to amount to 0 (not epsilon, 0) since its inception is strictly due to poor treatment of comments as 2nd class item in code.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765095 << there's a certain...ring... to that. "a cuntoo pressing itself". http://78.media.tumblr.com/9307e89967592d33f10d9598fcdbc2ec/tumblr_ndiplotSRF1th0gwho1_1280.jpg☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 18:28 asciilifeform: no good. first of all suppose there are 2 concurrent runs of the vtron ( say this is a cuntoo pressing itself )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765100 << this is a gensym in the sense girl you met at butcher's is your true love. why not call gns like sane people.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 18:29 asciilifeform: ( make a string out of /dev/random crapola + current epoch time, say )
mircea_popescu: o... wait...
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765119 << this is actually the most cogent critique of phalocentrism in computing i ever read.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 18:45 asciilifeform: ( upstack : dma, interrupts, pipeline, instruction reorderer, 'hyperthreading', multiple buses, 'bridges' -- all are epicycles ( hey mircea_popescu ! ) from vonneumannism , where instructions 'push' (unrelated to stack concept) outputs, rather than 'pull' inputs as they oughta )
asciilifeform: gensyms have 0 to do with centralized name lists or any *ns
asciilifeform: they're simply 'i want a piece of shit that won't recur'
asciilifeform: !#s gensym
a111: 15 results for "gensym", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=gensym
asciilifeform: ^ there's gotta be a likbez in'ere.
asciilifeform: in practice you can use e.g. 256bits of fg. asteroids will flatten you before it ever recurs.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aaaand how do you make it not recuir lol
asciilifeform: liekthat.
mircea_popescu: this is not the samr thing!
mircea_popescu: re-read my comment, it is exactly accurate!
mircea_popescu: can also run into soulmate at butcher's!
asciilifeform: can!
mircea_popescu: back at sanity ranch, ~only way to know it won't recur is the way trinque has it implemented
mircea_popescu: when i ask for a deposit it won't fucking recur.
mircea_popescu: ("why not ?" "because he's not gonna reissue the item already in db doh")
asciilifeform: if you have a record of all the prev shots, it is trivial to avoid recurring ( use simple counter )
mircea_popescu: right.
asciilifeform: harder is when there is not a record.
asciilifeform: in that case rng. in fact this is almost definition of what trng is for.
mircea_popescu: it is, isn't it.
asciilifeform: ( you want a unique e.g. rsa privmod, but without having to show it to anybody ... )
mircea_popescu: tring is secret gensym ; gensym is public trng.
asciilifeform: approx
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765140 << could trivially point into structure by word count! which is how it was fucking done before you darned kids started skatin' on the sidewalk! my addressing into classical text is paragraph count / word offset. what the FUCK is a line!☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 18:54 asciilifeform: ( whynot, is not a bad question, it reduces to the absence of a solution to the tednelson problem -- how to point into a structure unambiguously, other than by line # )
asciilifeform: same problem as lines
asciilifeform: trivial changes mutilate the pointer
mircea_popescu: notrly, i'd be happy with "text is made of words" ; my problem is entirely "text is made of words ARRANGED IN LINES".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform code reference is not to be optimized for the writer of code.
mircea_popescu: code reference is to be optimized for the reader of code.
mircea_popescu: the ~only~ person who matters, in ALL of fucking computer, is HE WHO READS CODE, all hail to him, the greatest one.
mircea_popescu: everyone else can go pack mud.
asciilifeform: forget writers of code and who-whom, for a minute, it's an actual unsolved
mircea_popescu forgets.
asciilifeform: it's the problem that drove ted nelson mad.
asciilifeform: ( and imho not unjustifiably )
mircea_popescu: explain it to me like i'm new.
asciilifeform: hmm
asciilifeform: there are texts. and long before gutenberg , texts knew how to refer to one another.
mircea_popescu: ok.
asciilifeform: by title, author.
asciilifeform: then gutenberg, and also became sometimes possible to refer to page.
mircea_popescu: by title, author, paragraph and word offset.
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: it became new-jersey possible
mircea_popescu: "works 80% of the time and breaks everything"
asciilifeform: e.g. bible grew concordance, with word offsets etc
mircea_popescu: there was an early knuth trying an early standardization of the same inanity, cca 1600, yes
asciilifeform: aha.
asciilifeform: herr leibniz
mircea_popescu: NOTE!!! however thatr foercing this ("all bible pages begin and end on same fucking words motherfuckers!!!) ruins the very point of print
mircea_popescu: which is... to not go around with photocopies, but REPRINT! ie, reflow.
asciilifeform: was bad enuff with print;
asciilifeform: then somebody made electric textrons where the text can... change. AFTER somebody already pointered into it.
mircea_popescu: yes.
asciilifeform: we are here.
mircea_popescu: how is this anything than "high fucking time we implement the original correctness" ?
asciilifeform: q is not whether, but how
mircea_popescu: dude!
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765738☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-06 02:46 asciilifeform: if you have a record of all the prev shots, it is trivial to avoid recurring ( use simple counter )
mircea_popescu: the bible take 349875938475893749854379857 paragraph 96 word 17
mircea_popescu: wtf is v for!
asciilifeform: is why i built it, yes
mircea_popescu: so then, can we forget the inanities. reference is by wordcount, paragraph, work ; there is no "generic" work title but only correct patchid, ie the bible take 349875938475893749854379857 above ; and this is fucking all.
asciilifeform: nelson's doom goes away if you can staticize the text.
mircea_popescu: have fixed indentation for all languages (aka only use languages with fixed indentation) and my text can flow!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform much in the way pain in eye goes away once you move the fucking spoon.
mircea_popescu: in the republic, the reference system is patch-tree ; press-head ; word-offset. wtf is wrong with that!
asciilifeform: indentation and whitespace placement in general, oughta be a harem (i.e. terminal config) matter.
mircea_popescu: yes but i like how lisp does it so how about default that
asciilifeform: store data as fucking sexprs already. let the vt100 die.
mircea_popescu: and then harem on top.
mircea_popescu: (contrary to above newjersyization, print was mega-republican tech, in that it STANDARDIZED LETTERS. you would NOT FUCKING BELIVE the unicode the dark ages had produced!)
asciilifeform: this is when asciilifeform admits that he has a small demo of this. but is being saved for after ffa, cuz Finishing Things Properly (tm)
mircea_popescu: cool. not like there's any rush.
asciilifeform: iirc trinque also has sumthing in back pocket , re subj.
mircea_popescu: well this has been a productive morning then.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765209 << yeah, somehow it became the epicenter of vcritique.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 19:06 mod6: my vtron has been discussed very much over the last 2+ years. i remember many disucssions where rules popped out.
asciilifeform: iirc we had almost exactly this thread, with the tabs-spaces thing
mircea_popescu: very substantially the same but formally different because no good form yet, so entirely useless (other than from historical pov)
mircea_popescu: EXACT application of "idiots can not have ideas -- idea in hand of idiot is not idea."
asciilifeform: sorta like in another thread re giving money to bears. just makes funnily shaped bear shit.
mircea_popescu: for instance -- i did not observe then that "tab" makes 0 sense, entirely vt100.item to borrow your reference, and will not be maintained. CONTRARY to what i thought at the time, i don't like tabs, i like the thing tabs emulate, which is lisp autoindent
asciilifeform: aaha
mircea_popescu: this is very much the problem of thinking man, "i know what i like i just don't know what it is" ie http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765170☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 19:00 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform somehow you jump from "my printer is shit, doesn't work properly" to "either magic number or throw out printer"
asciilifeform: 'didja want 3ring binder, or 4ring, or cleaner desk, or to think moarclearly' per naggum
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765236 << no that was the different one, with the microscopy.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 19:12 trinque: he was almost, maybe, sort of going to do an archiver and pdf-to-texter
asciilifeform: lol the methscopy
asciilifeform: was ( nominally... where IS his key ? ) d00d
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765251 << this is so fucking epic.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 19:16 gabriel_laddel: training a NN on FG output to see if it trains faster so I can sell them
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-11-25#1742992 << the quite memorable lulthread☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-11-25 00:24 gabriel_laddel: 1000x magnification seems unrealistic - that being said: if I crush some product, take hundreds of images of each sample & use them as input into a neural network along with a 1-10 (bunk-absolute fire) rating y'think it'll get trained to recognize the real deal?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-10-13#1298079☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-10-13 19:48 ascii_field: '...so the room would be empty!'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nah nah, was some other kid, had a whole pile of "nsa recognizes you for your not having done any work in x field" certs and whatnot.
asciilifeform: he got the notion ( re nn convergence, not methscope, lol ) from ancient log, where asciilifeform described own finding
asciilifeform: where, oddly, it works
asciilifeform: good rng in fact lubricates convergence in all kinds of sims
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hm, kanzure ?
mircea_popescu is persuased neural networks / expert systems / etc ai.mit nonsense is waste of tiem ; however we could put the difference between trng and prng in these terms : only one is useful for evolutionary work.
mircea_popescu: possibly.
asciilifeform: alphago runs on nn
mircea_popescu: in a sense of nn whittled down to mean "here's this 1T bayesian array"
asciilifeform: plus various special-purpose mechanisms even in asciilifeform
mircea_popescu: this is a neural network in the sense frog has cns.
asciilifeform: 's house
asciilifeform: e.g. ocr
asciilifeform: it works when used as prescribed.
asciilifeform: nn is a very broad item, and properly speaking the 'training' is distinct from the mechanics of the 'neurons' per se
asciilifeform: ( can do 'backpropagation', or 'genetic algo' to 'evolve' the params, or some other way )
asciilifeform: backpropagation has no analogy in meat, incidentally
mircea_popescu: right.
asciilifeform: pretty sure we had this thread..
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765278 << teitelbaum gaon sez, excessive virtue still vicious. nothing wrong with a little of whatever now and again, i for that matter drink the occasional cup of coffee and so on. the problem's when it becomes a regular thing, "i am in X circumstance therefore must Y".☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 19:21 trinque: hey after mircea_popescu's various whallops on me about weed, I gave up daily caffeine even.
asciilifeform: daily dope is simply a black hole for money, even if it dun do you in
asciilifeform: the meat habituates
asciilifeform: dope correctly !
mircea_popescu: there's this lulzy "guy wrote 5 checks for $20 each every SINGLE day for three years" sorta stories from law enforcement.
mircea_popescu: "did it not ever occur to you to get a week's supply ahead of time ?" "here's a $20 check"
asciilifeform: ahahaha
asciilifeform: ( see also http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-13#1750150 )☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-13 01:01 asciilifeform: how to smoke -- is possibly the 1 item where the red man had right idea.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: who would pay for dope with cheque?!
mircea_popescu: myeah
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765700 << Danke schön. I'd like to escape the arid esl labyrinth so I've been slowly attempting to lerne Deutsch (still "daycare" level though); this may help to kill two birds with one stone. Looking like Kritik der reinen Vernunft would be my logical starting point☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-06 01:49 mircea_popescu: and, for completeness : leaning german off kant is perfectly acceptable manner of learning german altogether, for the sufficiently intelligent ; much like learning greek off homer.
lobbes: Also in the spirit of: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-24#1728257 !☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-24 20:57 mircea_popescu: in languages as well as fucking, there's no disadvantage in starting directly with the master class.
mircea_popescu: yeah seriously. failure of the esl mind is mostly ensured by a very broken evaluation of "success". take the brick in hand, enough achievement for the first day is to have managed to fucking hold it. yes, it's completely opaque to you. so what if it is. so are many things. see what can be cracked out of it ; there's no shortage of "science fiction" "magical realism" whatever in the actual world once one's you know, no longer
mircea_popescu: deliberately blind. see what can be wrested out of this gesserit cube.
mircea_popescu: "this makes no fucking sense" needn't be either scary or worrisome -- it's the fundamental, unviersal state of mankind anyway.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765282 << there is that. and, as he points out, "lo! i moved!" etc.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 19:22 asciilifeform: trinque: i'd bet d00d has spells of sobriety, he has afaik already outlived the expected life of a serious meth aficionado
mircea_popescu: nothing wrong with people taking things in at their own speed. everyone does it regardless if there's anything wrong with it or no anyway.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765384 << win.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 20:26 asciilifeform: '... stack-based overflow in the function EkCheckCurrentCert. This function is called from TPM2_CreatePrimary with user controlled data - a DER encoded [6] endorsement key (EK) certificate stored in the NV storage....'
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765454 << imo disimprovement.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 22:41 asciilifeform: so {[foo]}{[bar]} would then instead look like {[foo]}~{[bar]}_ grrrrrr
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765461 << it wasn't supposed to, was it ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 22:43 asciilifeform: patch on top of ch5 plox
asciilifeform: aha. try as i might, original stands so far as best
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that q was misconceived, see further in.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765537 << im just sitting here shaking my head. WTF ALF! talk to the topic!☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 23:18 trinque: the opacity of this question is by now baffling to me.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765548 << there's no patching atop TWO patches omfg.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 23:24 ben_vulpes: or to put it a different way, that one *must* create an invalid state in order to patch atop two divergent patches.
mircea_popescu: ok this nonsense in the log is fucking infuriating.
mircea_popescu: let's classify once for all fucking time!
mircea_popescu: 1. problem S (alf's) is entirely spurious and not part of this confersation, go talk to dreamweaver about it ; 2. problem A (trinque's) : "if two patches with same antecedent touch disjunct filesets, how does establish which came first" ; 3. problem X ( ben_vulpes 's) : "if i totally sabotage v into a piece of shit entirely contrary to its everything, will you hit me in the head ?"
mircea_popescu: problem S will not be considered ; problem X is resolved by answering yes. because god fucking help you, if your patch has two antecedents you are a heretic anathema.
mircea_popescu: problem A has two possible legitimate answers : A.1 : introduce a further parentage chain (so patch does not discuss merely file hashes but also somehow a hash of prev patch) and A.2 : introduce a magic file which must (by protocol) be touched by all patches.
mircea_popescu: through some discussion it emerged that A.1 and A.2 are not practically distinct, one just provides the memory for the implementation fo the other as a foremost feature.
mircea_popescu: this is the discussion, proceed but proceed like sane fucking people, save me blood pressure.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765580 << eh get the hell out of here, so you want someone to take that patch and put it into some random other tree which happens to have a db.cpp that matches its hash ? this is insanity on the level of early organ transplantation experiments.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 23:38 asciilifeform: take for example http://btcbase.org/patches/asciilifeform_maxint_locks_corrected . in properly working v, it ONLY depends on db.cpp being a particular hash . and does NOT lock you into anything else being anything else in particular.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765582 << every single time you lift something ; yup.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 23:39 asciilifeform: if instead it demanded that your tree, to apply it, be bitwise-identical to asciilifeform's tree when he made it -- you could only build on this patch if you reground ALL of EVERYONE's work every single fucking time
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765587 << v exists to permit you too 100/0 split "the monolith/the rest". so the world can therefore safely consists of multiple monoliths.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 23:40 asciilifeform: think, if EVERY patch requires global regrind of all of world history, you ain't using v, may as well throw out all of the unnecessary equipment -- you're passing a monolithic turd around
mircea_popescu: but yes, there is no other kind of code besides monolith ; i've had enough "bazaar" for three lifetimes of other people i don't particularly like ; and moreover code ambiguity is fucking nuts.
mircea_popescu: i'm gonna skip the rest of this nonsense, jesus f christ.
asciilifeform invites mircea_popescu to redraw picture seen in http://btcbase.org/patches . which incidentally is on 3rd year of looking exactly so, and mircea_popescu had plenty of time to barf.
asciilifeform: ^ where just about EVERY patch has 2+ antecedents.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765882 << there is no 'random' that so 'happens'. if hash matches -- the delta is valid. end of story. this is what v was about from day 1.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-06 04:29 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765580 << eh get the hell out of here, so you want someone to take that patch and put it into some random other tree which happens to have a db.cpp that matches its hash ? this is insanity on the level of early organ transplantation experiments.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765884 << very easy to write infinite cheques on OTHER people's time, yes.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-06 04:30 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765582 << every single time you lift something ; yup.
asciilifeform: apparently the 2016 mircea_popescu-rigormotris-v , as in http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-23#1589666 , is doomed to come back again and again 4evah☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-12-23 19:53 asciilifeform: if i had any reason to think that turning v tree into a forest of vertical stakes , exponentially crowded with IDENTICAL payloads that cannot be machine-compared , would make it easier to tell friend from foe and wisdom from folly -- i would agree with mircea_popescu's algo. but i do not.
asciilifeform: *mortis
asciilifeform: who wants to use -- go use. asciilifeform won't touch.
asciilifeform: ... and i recommend then to dispense with the pretense of automation, and simply return to signing tarballs. moar honest, and logically equivalent.
asciilifeform: i'll admit, i very much dungetit. errybody hated 2015-v from day 1 ? wanted the 1kb patches to be 1MB ? or wat.
asciilifeform: thread inescapably reminds asciilifeform of http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-24#1757902 .☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-24 16:11 asciilifeform: kurchatov, supposedly, sat and thought, and few minutes later answered, 'perhaps from philosophical pov this'd be consistent. but then we will have to forget about obtaining the bomb.'
asciilifeform: and yes it is exactly same thing. mircea_popescu/trinque-style 'single hash' v is moar philosophically-coherent. change 1 byte ? you now live in separate universe. and anyone who wants to use any of yours, must manually create a new universe.
asciilifeform: and now it takes a lifetime to simply juggle the v-mechanics, leaving ~0 time for any of the 'irrelevant' detail like, say, writing ffa.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765888 << fughet, for the final time, 'bazaar', esr ain't here, and aint' gonna be here. and it is wrong to use the whip used for esr, on actual people. until you grasp this, your universe will not contain actual people. to unsheath the esr whip here is a fundamentally solipsistic act.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-06 04:31 mircea_popescu: but yes, there is no other kind of code besides monolith ; i've had enough "bazaar" for three lifetimes of other people i don't particularly like ; and moreover code ambiguity is fucking nuts.
asciilifeform: and there is no 'ambiguity' in 2015-v , except in so far as incompetent patch authors permit it.
asciilifeform: which to date is never.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765881 << sanity looks like this : 'trb since 2015 is made of v. and works. and quite compact. and fundamentally mechanics are correct.'☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-06 04:18 mircea_popescu: this is the discussion, proceed but proceed like sane fucking people, save me blood pressure.
asciilifeform: i'ma leave this apparently immortal zombie thread alone for nao, for sake of own blood pressure.
asciilifeform bbl, bed.
mircea_popescu: gah
mircea_popescu: im striking all this crap from the record.
mircea_popescu: there's a very strict limit on the complexity of any discussion (which -- correlates to its utility) imposed by the propensity of bad actor to inject nonsense in the conversation.
mircea_popescu: every single fucking line you produced in this attempt to double down on the "lalala i can't hear anything" idiocy is flaming, offensive bullshit.
mircea_popescu: first off, the ENTIRE edifice of sanity you partake in is built ENTIRELY on my writing cheques on other people's time. you're welcome to like or not like this, but it is not open to your review.
mircea_popescu: second off, this approach where you take some vague fragment of what was said, respin it into some bit of nonsense meaningful to some random other interest in your own head and proceed as if that's what's said is not a game anyone in my experience willingly entertained.
mircea_popescu: either manage to discuss in the sense of, as part of the discussion, or else go discuss in the sense of, talking to yourself.
mircea_popescu: as to the peculiar way in which http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=eucrypt&search= renders the various arrows : it makes the implication that eg ch4 parents are ch3 "as well as ch1" for the coincidental reason that ch1 is included in ch4s parents both "indirectly" via c3 and "directly" in the lateral and unimportant sense that ch4 changes both files which were changed by ch3 and files that weren't changed since c1. this DOES
mircea_popescu: NOT make ch4 have "two parents" in the sense contemplated here. it only has one, because the ch1 as included by ch3 is necessarily the same as the ch1 as included "directly".
mircea_popescu: if instead of this we look at the other kind of "two parents", whereby ch3 supposedly has both ch2 and mpi_fix_copy as parents, this is specifically the situation discussed by the problem A : that two patches, which ARE STILL IN A CHAIN, nevertheless happen to touch disjunct filesets, and so the question of their order is open (which phf renders "correctly" in the sense of acceptably as he does ; but which is NOT meaningful i
mircea_popescu: n the sense you interpret it).
mircea_popescu: so no, at no fucking point does any patch have anything other than a single parent, which is properly speaking "the previous press", rather than "a random collection of files scattered about". like it or not, files don't have the sort of semantic power whereby a db.cpp "of the right hash" will always be useful when imported into some random project. files are not contextless ; neither because they aren't currently tooled to b
mircea_popescu: e contextless, nor because they could not fucking be so tooled.
mircea_popescu: but in general, this excursion in wank and nonsense could continue ad infinitum and i have reports to write.
danielpbarron: !!up otharwa
deedbot: otharwa voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: !!deed http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/Mx3ZV/?raw=true
deedbot: accepted: 1
mircea_popescu: !!deed http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/D199E/?raw=true
deedbot: accepted: 1
mircea_popescu: !!pay diana_coman .39
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/GE03l/?raw=true
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/minigame-smg-december-2017-statement/ << Trilema - MiniGame (S.MG), December 2017 Statement
mircea_popescu: !!key ReadErr
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/7C3D6F997D3D965D5A7C74CE9E4BD72145B88987.asc
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765918 << if mircea_popescu sees himself as the 1 fella with a working head, and sole fountain of sanity, and errybody else is a peculiar sort of animated furniture -- i am quite powerless to cure. ( occasionally i'll try curing anyway, as it sometimes seems to work , e.g. seems to be finally cured of 'plain text' after 3+ yrs of 'wie sind sie eigentlich... !' )☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-06 06:17 mircea_popescu: first off, the ENTIRE edifice of sanity you partake in is built ENTIRELY on my writing cheques on other people's time. you're welcome to like or not like this, but it is not open to your review.
asciilifeform: err, wer
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765921 << this is entirely troo tho. i simply dun see that it is amenable to a mechanical solution.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-06 06:28 mircea_popescu: as to the peculiar way in which http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=eucrypt&search= renders the various arrows : it makes the implication that eg ch4 parents are ch3 "as well as ch1" for the coincidental reason that ch1 is included in ch4s parents both "indirectly" via c3 and "directly" in the lateral and unimportant sense that ch4 changes both files which were changed by ch3 and files that weren't changed since c1. this DOES
asciilifeform: i built the orig v with a certain amount of mechanical 'luft' , so that lateral motion of information between brains was possible without total history erasure. however it is entirely true that this makes it possible to turn a vtree into nonsense with a sequence of individually-correct operations. now you can try and take away the luft , 'hash whole previous press' etc. you can already get this effect in existing v by concatenating e
asciilifeform: rrything into 1file. this comes at a cost. apparently this particular electric fence must get pissed on empirically, for the cost to become obvious. let it be pissed on then, i haven't presently anything to add.
asciilifeform: will add, however, that there is not and will never be a fully-automated, mechanical nonsense-preventer. it is a moar fantastic dream than the prime-number generator. it is rather like to ask for piano that cannot play badly.
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/gDphe << meanwhile, in other noose, '...impact on CPU usage of one of our back-end services after a host was patched to address the Meltdown vulnerability...'
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 16638.36, vol: 13985.49290607 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 16683.0, vol: 41480.64559332 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 16545.0, vol: 2898.20275182 | Volume-weighted last average: 16665.4505107
PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765616 << I dun see why patches have to change much? Thinking of the system proposed by mircea_popescu you would have one line change in a "patch version" file, the rest of the patch would be identical to what we have now☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-06 00:00 asciilifeform: i'ma summarize the v thing : if you have a proposed new v algo ; and it would turn my 1kB patches into 1MB, and my readable 3 lines into 100kLoc of ?#@%$*(@%% , and my trivial machine-diff-verifiable changes into 'why dontcha sit for 5 years doing eyeball-powered diff' -- it is NOT an improvement. and i won't touch it. sign it. sign anything made on it. etc
PeterL: if the is are sister patches A and B, and you want to make C using both of them you just regrind B to B', the only difference would be the one patch version file, and that difference would be readily vissible by diffing B and B', then make C ontop of B', works with current v IIUC
PeterL: s/the is/there
PeterL: the problem I see with the current system is that you can make a change in one file which relies on a change in behavior of a function defined in a different file. You end up with two "sister" patches, but the second one is invalid without the first.
asciilifeform: PeterL: as the original ( and afaik to date the only ) perpetrator of this particular warcrime ( the shiva item specifically ) i will say , imho the solution is to Not Do That . rather than to try to make it mechanically impossible. but i'ma not repeat this point further, it dun help .
PeterL: so you want to touch comments in pertinent files after-the-fact, while I am suggesting touching a comment in a central file (README?) each time so that doesn't have to happen
asciilifeform: PeterL: i dun particularly want anything ; i'm quite happy (aside from the can't-move-text-or-rename-files nonsense) with the way classical v works.
asciilifeform: PeterL: so to find how it is broken, you will have to ask the folx who believe that it is broken, when they wake up. or at the very least, to read the log.
PeterL: you don't think it is broken that you were able to commit the "warcrime" so easily?
asciilifeform: nope.
asciilifeform: consider piano. is it necessarily broken, because when a cat walks on the keys, what comes out is not music ?
PeterL: couldn't having a standard of "touch readme file each patch" be a form of "don't do that"?
asciilifeform: PeterL: the result is that the only way for PeterL to use something asciilifeform wrote, is to turn his house into an exact duplicate of asciilifeform's; or alternatively to cut-and-paste, eulora-mpi-style, destroying all record of the copied item's history. but i already said this. try reading log ?
PeterL: isn't that why we have a main-line version of software, so everybody is working on the same thing? does it make sense for everybody to be wroking on something slightly difference and expect my changes to fit your thing?
PeterL: and I don't see it as cut-and paste, you would just be changing the one line in the patch to merge it into your own flow?
PeterL: have a patch-of-the-patch?
asciilifeform: PeterL: why dontcha wait until trinque writes his modified vtron, and see what this looks like with own eyes. because for each line of this unproductive thread that we write, mircea_popescu will take an extra gulp of rum, and i suspect that it is not good for his digestion.
PeterL: lol
PeterL: and how do I know if I take random patch from you and stick it in my different patch tree that it will not break something? wouldn't I want to have the same world as you before adding your patch?
asciilifeform: if you are 'taking random' somethings from somewhere and 'sticking them' blindly somewhere else, the error is YOU
asciilifeform: there is not a mechanical substitute for own brain.
asciilifeform: the onus is on YOU, to READ every single fucking line.
asciilifeform: i'm not even convinced that mircea_popescu is wrong to demand that everyone who wants to use a patch with own universe, oughta rewrite it, painfully with own hands.
asciilifeform: what i'm not convinced of is that the current crop of hands is up to the job. as in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-02#1762384 .☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-02 16:10 mircea_popescu: similarily if you went with machine guns into campus of your choice, the output will be pile of bodies, not red army.
asciilifeform: for instance as we speak nao , asciilifeform is rewriting OWN proggy, for the 4th time. line by line.
asciilifeform: and 5th if you count the paper.
asciilifeform: and the other caveat - if a patch is 500kB, 1) no one will in actuality read it 2) people will lie to themselves and each other re having 'read'.
asciilifeform: and will cut&paste and lie to selves re having 'rewritten'.
asciilifeform: PeterL: didja ever have 1980s b00kz, magazines, with proggies in'em ? asciilifeform did. and learned more from retyping them, than ever learned at uni
asciilifeform: i still have one with little games for c64, written as peek/pokes...
asciilifeform: this was possible partly because 'hands were stronger then' but partly because the proggies were SMALL.
PeterL: yes, I had a couple that included BASIC "games"
PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-05#1765051 << when I was little my dad had (might still have) this nice calculator that asciilifeform would like, it was a scientific calculator, used rpn, was about the size of a mans palm, landscape, solid metale housing☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-05 18:04 asciilifeform: ever owned a rpn calc , ben_vulpes ?
asciilifeform: PeterL: hp16 series ?
asciilifeform: i have one here, 16c
PeterL: I dun remember which
asciilifeform: the one with bin/hex/octal buttons
asciilifeform: http://www.thimet.de/CalcCollection/Calculators/HP-16C/HP-16C-M.JPG << subj
asciilifeform: there were several models with this shape, for different professions ( the one for accountants is still sold , even )
PeterL: nah, simmilar layout but about twice as many buttons
PeterL: he is physicist, used it for serious calcs
asciilifeform: possibly one of the contemporary calcs with 'basic' ( e.g. http://calculators.torensma.net/files/images/sharp_el-5400.jpg )
PeterL: anyway, I gotta go, will reaad logs
asciilifeform: PeterL: you may find http://btcbase.org/log/2015-04-28#1114226 interesting ( 1 of the early 'how we ended up with v' threads )☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-04-28 20:06 ascii_field: not the git thing again
shinohai: Heh I had one of those Sharp calcs when I was a kid, loved the thing.
phf: and the log keeps on logging
phf: asciilifeform: snarfed, but i think i'm missing ch2 for benvulpes
asciilifeform: hm i dun have it either
asciilifeform: apparently.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765939 << mircea_popescu does not see itself as any such thing, but that's entirely irrelevant. what mircea_popescu sees itself as or doesn't see itself as doesn't enter into it at any point, and you're misstating the problem.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-06 12:54 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1765918 << if mircea_popescu sees himself as the 1 fella with a working head, and sole fountain of sanity, and errybody else is a peculiar sort of animated furniture -- i am quite powerless to cure. ( occasionally i'll try curing anyway, as it sometimes seems to work , e.g. seems to be finally cured of 'plain text' after 3+ yrs of 'wie sind sie eigentlich... !' )
mircea_popescu: mircea_popescu IS, in this context and fundamentally, the item where the buck stops, as the http://btcbase.org/log/2014-01-25#459581 concept ; and consequently #trilema is "a thing such as #trilema", as opposed to "a thing such as pantsuit" BECAUSE #trilema is built on this system as opposed to the "buck never stops" only possible alternative.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-01-25 17:35 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah, they only had one guy to answer to. all systems which are build around a spot where the buck stops outperforms systems bereft of such.
mircea_popescu: #trilema in particular is #trilema in particular because the buck stops with mircea_popescu as opposed to any other specific implementation of the same concept, but that's neither here nor there ; moreover you're very much encouraged to http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-26#1758744 -- a bunch of locals have managed to reach that exalted level where the experience of actually and seriously working the other side of the problem wou☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-12-26 19:48 mircea_popescu: go make yer castles today, so noobs have a shot at life in 2018
mircea_popescu: ld make them more capable.
asciilifeform: butlol, i ~like~ this about mircea_popescu .
asciilifeform: it's why i work with mircea_popescu and not goatfuckistan academy of sciences.
mircea_popescu: yes, but the sad is that part of that like in your case is built out of insanity.
asciilifeform: now how would i even begin to answer that.
mircea_popescu: sit your ass down for one cottonpicking moment, and consider the fact that you're the fellow who, IN THE SAME DAY, deduced that "nobody reads x" on the basis of "i read it every day and never found x.y". this, somehow, was a rational deduction that passed your filter. THEN you proceeded to threaten its-not-exactly-clear whom with burial, over their threats to steal your printer. and THEN you went off the deep end wrt to some
mircea_popescu: strange contorted whateveritis.
asciilifeform: y'mean printer is safe!?11111
asciilifeform: and the squirrels know?
mircea_popescu: get a grip man, you have this strange reactive mr hyde portion, thoroughly anxiety driven, as if you honestly believe, with the deep fiber of your 5yo being, that whenever something happens chulhu will come fuck your plushies. one can almost measure the velocity of republic on the basis of alf-insanity-odometer as measured from the logs, are you aware ? correlate of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-04#1763554 is directly above.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-04 02:15 mircea_popescu: in other words : republican methodology for improving software, that was slowly swirling towards systematisation down the drain of v turned exponential / made some major breakthroughs in the past six weeks or so.
asciilifeform: well cthulhu did, manner of speaking, fuck the plushies to shreds, and repeatedly. but this happens to ~erryone.
asciilifeform wrapping up ch6 , only tuned in with 1 eye currently
BingoBoingo: In other news, last night I had my first experience answering a query in Portuguese and having interpreted it as yet another new accent
shinohai: Nao, really? ^.^
BingoBoingo: Girl inquired whether I was brasilero.
shinohai: "Am I filthy and smell like cannabis?"
BingoBoingo: Nah, it was in the hostel. The safe assumption there is Brasilero until informed otherwise.
BingoBoingo: I was doing my weekly cleaning and oiling of the boots, which likely seemed like a strange custom for Brasileros to have.
mircea_popescu: in other browsergames, dangerous adventure. incredible, someone made gfx mmo right!
mircea_popescu: does anyone want to do this same thing to rogue ? i'd buy.
mircea_popescu: (anyone happen to know daniel mcneely, while we're at it ?)
mircea_popescu: http://armorgames.com/play/17985/dangerous-adventure-2 < item
shinohai: I have seen him on twitter before I left, don't know him exactly though.
mircea_popescu: guy actually gets gaming, which is rare. always was, but these days... fucking especially.
shinohai: I'll log in and send him a DM if you like, invite him here for a chat.
mircea_popescu: ah, i thought you were banned
shinohai: I got my ban reversed, but simply couldn't bring myself to go back to that nonsense, figured I had rottede my mind enough. (Thanks alf)
mircea_popescu: cool then!
mircea_popescu: thanks.
shinohai mainly wanted to copy all his slut contacts, only reason for seeking ban overturn
shinohai: twitter recently announced they would not be deleting accounts of world leaders, perhaps you can get ban overturned now mircea_popescu !
BingoBoingo: Nah, they only don't ban insufficient world leaders
mircea_popescu: eh, anyone can set up a rss from here, which is ~the whole thing i'd even consider.
mircea_popescu: aaactualy! how about this as a small job for you shinohai ? set up a bot, rss lines from here to twitter and @, dms from twitter here.
mircea_popescu: just make sure it spits them out when asked and in a paste less it angers ye gods.
shinohai: Interesting idea .... rss feeds themselves are quite easy, but the DM thing caused me grief last time I attempted iirc
mircea_popescu: so without dms then.
mircea_popescu: can't imagine why, it must be just a feed like any other neh ?
mircea_popescu: shinohai you can open it up if it works, charge people to host their twatter, it's something.
shinohai: Yes, but supposedly it is an internal twitter "privacy issue" to share DMS
mircea_popescu: ah. so insta-block anyone who dms you, say so in profile (what, and why -- "do not dm or you will be blocked -- this is because twitter's self-important "privacy" bs) and problem solved.
shinohai: Yeah, I simply turn off DMs there is at least a knob for that.
mircea_popescu: nah, block people like this. let twitter suffer the penalty for their pretend sovereignity.
shinohai: Some rss feeds were on my agenda (ala deedbot !!subscribe), one was /btc/ per http://trilema.com/2015/btc-the-most-recent-8chan-board/ .... but I think that kinda fizzled neh?
deedbot: http://deedbot.org/bundle-502886.txt
BingoBoingo: !!deed http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/cA0Ar/?raw=true
deedbot: accepted: 1
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: oversight
deedbot: http://deedbot.org/bundle-502889.txt
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-06#1766053 << i dunno, i guess it never gathered any interest.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-06 18:02 shinohai: Some rss feeds were on my agenda (ala deedbot !!subscribe), one was /btc/ per http://trilema.com/2015/btc-the-most-recent-8chan-board/ .... but I think that kinda fizzled neh?
shinohai: Might do a Eulora promotion or something there this Spring if the btc Gods are kind to me this winter.
shinohai: Surely the autism can't be any higher than the tardstalk experiment.
BingoBoingo: The return of kink place as a "crypto" forum too. Maybe take the temperature of their autism?
shinohai: Might be worthwhile, will add to battle plans this year.
mircea_popescu: if one manages to not expect much, the extramural internet rarely manages to disappoint.
shinohai: aha
asciilifeform: hey mircea_popescu , do you remember whether gpg 1.4 ( virginal ) can be forced to dump hashpayload when verifying sigs ?
asciilifeform: --debug-all dun do it.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't remember that it can be. gotta to the hard way unbase64 etc
asciilifeform: grr annoying.
mircea_popescu: myeah.
deedbot: http://deedbot.org/bundle-502896.txt
mircea_popescu: !!rated ReadErr
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated ReadErr 1 at 2018/01/03 04:50:14 << very.legit.person
asciilifeform: and nao:
deedbot: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=2105 << Loper OS - Finite Field Arithmetic. Chapter 6: Geological RSA.
asciilifeform: ACHTUNG, PANZERS! ^
asciilifeform: ^ replications invited.
asciilifeform: !~later tell phf plox to snarf ch6 , ty
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: closedform rsa, folx!111
mircea_popescu: ha!
asciilifeform: this one contains a candy.
asciilifeform: pehbot updated.
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-01-03#1763376 << /me puts on dunce cap☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-01-03 19:46 asciilifeform: mod6: it's the 'official' answer, linked in ch5.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: this is possibly the most fun and educational homework i have ever undertaken
ben_vulpes: bbl, familytime
mircea_popescu: yeah, i'm also quite pleased with the very good style of the items. readily doubles as manual for proper use of english.
asciilifeform: odd, cuz asciilifeform got a distinct feeling that he had made a pudding of it. but happy that mircea_popescu found it edible.
mircea_popescu: perfectly fine.
mircea_popescu: are you allowed to call it "aocp" btw ?
asciilifeform: i dun think anyone will wonder 'what's aocp'
asciilifeform: errybody either has seen , or pretends to have seen, aocp.
mircea_popescu got the impression he named it deliberately for the acronymism (a lot more excusable in his case seeing how the uscongresstards hadn't yet driven that joke into the ground) and will sneak out to mix sugar in your fuel tank at night if you dare lop off the the
asciilifeform: ( at one time errybody either read or pretended to have read... )
asciilifeform has nfi
mircea_popescu: TAOcp, see.
asciilifeform: if the good doktor writes in and asks, i'ma add a t.
mircea_popescu: works
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nice graph but where's the datapoints on it ?
asciilifeform: good point, i'ma link'em:
mircea_popescu: all the crossings ?
mircea_popescu: as a general rule : if you publish a graph, which is continuous, and based on empirical data, do the world a favour and color-dot the datapoints on there.
mircea_popescu: "Let’s verify the RSA seal of ffa_ch6_simplest_rsa.vpatch, the Chapter 6 code itself, using itself". epic.
asciilifeform: updated.
mircea_popescu: lol he patched rsa. ehehehe
asciilifeform: blew most of an hr looking for that dumper ('gotta be in there...')
asciilifeform: naturally koch methodically omitted it
mircea_popescu: heh.
mircea_popescu: anyway, as ben_vulpes says, these are a pleasure.
asciilifeform: yay
asciilifeform: nitpicks/replications/timing data invited.
asciilifeform: pretty curious how this one will look on various iron.
mircea_popescu will pay 2 bitcents to the first l2 (not l1) that produces timing data, to the same standard as teh graph, + machine spec.
asciilifeform: nifty, ty mircea_popescu . possibly some of the new blood will finally do a job
mircea_popescu: give noobs a chance!
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/no-such-labs-snsa-december-2018-statement/ << Trilema - No Such lAbs (S.NSA), December 2018 Statement
asciilifeform: the nonsensical padding scheme used by rfc2440/4880/koch is on display , incidentally
asciilifeform: with the 1FFFFF......FFFFFFFblahblah
shinohai: ^ neat asciilifeform ... I'm a bit slower learning these bits (like debug flag 2 didn't work on gpg2 because mpi) but patience.
asciilifeform: shinohai: you can't use gpg2 for this. nor stock gpg1
asciilifeform: the patch is against classical ( mircea_popescuine ) 1.4.10 .
shinohai: I know, I have since converted solely to 1.4.x usage
shinohai: ^ yeah that one
asciilifeform: btw if somebody wants to write a py or pl scriptoid that'll generate the gpg-matching 1ffffff...blah turdoid for a given file , he will get honourable-mention in the next chapter.
asciilifeform: ( then can dispose of gpg for this, entirely ! )
mircea_popescu: this is a little like being offered mention in the bible. i imagine many at the time thought 40 silvers a better deal, however...
mircea_popescu: history did not end up supporting that view.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-22#1247807 << how-to.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-08-22 00:10 mircea_popescu: 5.2.3. Version 4 Signature Packet Format
asciilifeform: we're approx. at level of a ( much cleaner ) circa- june 2017 ffa nao.
asciilifeform: libffa ( the actual arithmetism ) is cumulatively ~1900 loc, (80col!11) inclusive of whitespace , banners, and commentolade ; ffacalc apparatus another ~900, ditto.
asciilifeform: as of ch6, i mean.
asciilifeform: btw i prolly oughta have mentioned, the timing figures (not only in ch6, but all posted to date) presume that ~all~ bounds-checks remain enabled.
asciilifeform: if one is satisfied with the nonoverflowability of the array refs , under all possible inputs , it is possible to yank'em. and get order-of-magnitude speedup.
asciilifeform: ffa is possibly one of the few nontrivial proggies where you can actually do this. because there are no data-dependent branches (aside from the 'data' which is the bitness you run under -- this determines the loopness of the loops)
asciilifeform: the only data-dependent branches are in ffa_calc , the calculator.
asciilifeform bbl,meat