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asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: where do you get this ?
asciilifeform: S grows by 1 or 0 bits per cycle. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: the bottle, apparently.
asciilifeform: a cycle ( by mircea_popescu's own proof from other day ) is repeated ( i.e. rewound ) 1-2 times
asciilifeform just came back with new bottle incidentally
mircea_popescu: anyway, yes. bound. ☟︎
asciilifeform: thing is, i'm quite sure that a hashtron satisfying the original ('make it maximally nasty, with provably no respite') condition CAN be made. i'ma come back to it when i wrap up my current megabacklog.
asciilifeform: possibly something based on travelling salesman or similar.
mircea_popescu: not too sure what your idea of maximally nasty is, but your complaint yest was already that this is unpracticably demanding.
asciilifeform: yes but this could have a use !
mircea_popescu: you want to make things that can't be used ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu got me thinkin', about uses.
asciilifeform: 'can't be used' is a flexible concept...
mircea_popescu: as i've been witnessing
asciilifeform: many, many years ago, asciilifeform wrote a ( and won't claim to be the only one who had this simple idea ) thing for evading censorware, that'd encipher a blob ( aes, iirc ) and package all but N bits of the key with the compressed ciphertext
asciilifeform: decompressor would brute force the N
mircea_popescu: what's that do ?
asciilifeform: naturally there was nothing provable re aes -- but it served a useful end, which was to make machine evaluation of the contents en masse, impractical
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: got around antivirus
mircea_popescu: a a a the five-points-fridge
mircea_popescu: i keep forgettiong the tards are in bayesian "intelligence" mode.
asciilifeform: maximally noiselike, if you will, polymorphism
mircea_popescu: right
asciilifeform: and likewise there is the 2 or so y.o. thread that all of this is a living branch of, the one with the np-hard boojums. that'd be the real mega-prize
mircea_popescu: mya
asciilifeform: (mostly) unrelatedly, asciilifeform bought some chinese $various , and , in the crate, discovered a phree goodie, a 'voltalert' tool, that supposedly tests for presence of mains current noncontactfully -- by looking for 50/60Hz electric field. but witness the surprise : it gives false negative on maybe 1/3 of the hot mains wires tried... ☟︎
asciilifeform: hard to think of a more catastrophically useless tool
asciilifeform: if one were to rely on it -- worse than no tools at all, certain demise.
mircea_popescu: well .33 certaom
asciilifeform: certain if you use it 3 times!111
mircea_popescu: nope :D
asciilifeform: .99999999....lel
mircea_popescu: the chinese tool of probable demise.
asciilifeform: and lulzily enough it is a copy of american item, by 'fluke'
mircea_popescu: how can it miss the field anyway, wires are very hot emically.
asciilifeform: is what i thought also!
asciilifeform: possibly delicate balance, between finding it anywhere in the room ( as a poorly made amp will ) and nowhere ☟︎
mircea_popescu: are you sure you read the manual correctloy ? maybe it's supposed to work after you grab the hot wire.
mircea_popescu: wetware amplified detecting
asciilifeform: i already have THAT one
asciilifeform: ( tongue!11 )
asciilifeform: i have a prehistoric variant of this tool that worx great, but it has a little ring that opens & clamps around wire
asciilifeform: ( magnetic, rather than electric )
asciilifeform: dunno wai this had to be 'modernized'...
mircea_popescu: too many ppls ?
asciilifeform: evidently.
asciilifeform off to tend to $contents of $crate, bbl.
ben_vulpes: aaand at the crockchain opinion hour: http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/businessreview/2017/07/04/seven-signs-of-over-hyped-fintech/
mircea_popescu: black chicks finjourna-ho-ing!
asciilifeform: 'Perhaps the best example of claiming credit for a problem that did not exist before is Bitcoin. Bitcoin enthusiasts claim it solved the “double spend” problem. A music MP3 can be copied multiple times so how do you stop digital money being spent multiple times? Very simple, you do not create a form of money that lacks a central authority.' << ahahhahaha ☟︎
mircea_popescu: durr
asciilifeform: 'if god meant man to bitcoinate, he'dve given'im wings' or how did it go
mircea_popescu: as if "Central authority" is EVEN POSSIBLE outside of very temporary, geographically limited arrangements.
mircea_popescu: fiatards are a fine example of claiming they resolved a problem by conceptual contorsion.
asciilifeform: 'Regarding security, resilience, privacy, transparency to regulators. Those rules are generally there for very good reasons that do not simply become irrelevant because the technology changes.' << didjaalsoknow!!
asciilifeform: trololol!
mircea_popescu: heh. is it actually a negress signing ?
asciilifeform: trolless
asciilifeform: 'Martin Walker is Banking and Finance Director at the Center for Evidence-Based Management (CEBMa) and produces research for financial consultancy Finadium. He has extensive experience in investment banking IT and operations.... Dresdner Kleinwort and Global Head of Prime Brokerage Technology at RBS Markets. He also held roles at Merrill Lynch and HSBC Global Markets...' etc
mircea_popescu: disappointing. keysha mac aleisha 'd have been so much more convincing.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> hard to think of a more catastrophically useless tool << There a better an worse variants of this tool. Pretty much only the good ones sell for this reason.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> dunno wai this had to be 'modernized'... << Faster!!! For the modern jobsite!!!
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: wet finger still faster..
BingoBoingo: No money to be made from Phree wet finger in OSHA "work safety" racket
BingoBoingo: Essentially an extortion racket centered around avoiding the healthcare extortion racket
asciilifeform: interestingly, when asciilifeform was a cable runner he had a very cheap but effective similar-looking 'fox and hound' tool. i suspect that these are easier to get right , because the signal injected by the 'fox' is not 60hz and is not pestilentially everywhere in the house
BingoBoingo: Well, those are used for actually DOING the work
asciilifeform: they work as described in http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-17#1671581 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-17 19:56 asciilifeform: idea of pll is that you can indeed see a lit match from mile away in daylight if you know 'exactly when to look'
mod6: mornin'
mod6: wb
mircea_popescu: heya
mod6: power situation any better?
mircea_popescu: ah it wasn't the power, i have it set to disconnect at six in the morning deliberately.
mod6: ah, i mean, where the girls were carrying up buckets of water?
mircea_popescu: i think i even mentioned this in the logs at some point. perpetual connections are unsanitary.
mod6: maybe i imagined that lol.
mircea_popescu: ah, that was 3 hours, then
mod6: ah.
mircea_popescu: they got it back up same evening. (not universally, nicaragua was still without power the next day for instance)
mod6: gotcha
mircea_popescu: teh ticos (costa rican ethnonym) are actually very serious, dedicated people. like shorter, more pleasant californians let's say. the nicaraguans are dorks and the panamanians are all to a man this strange rendition of the frustrated shittier brother.
mircea_popescu: dunno if you've ever seen this in practice, 2nd born with a huge boner/inferiority complex.
mod6: ah, sure.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, if costa rica enlarges its airport because it gets tons of traffic and it HAS TO, panama will built an even larger one!!!! which nobody really needs wants or uses. but THEY ARE BETTER DAMNIT
mircea_popescu: poached the cr soccer coach, it's a thing
mod6: heh, funny
mod6: i didn't sleep a wink last night.
mod6: so now im like...
mod6: chugging coffee.
mircea_popescu: why not ?
mod6: i dunno. just one of those nights i guess.
mircea_popescu: a
mod6: can i also say that this whole lobbesbot thing is a pretty great model. does auctions, then he collects the fees (monthly?).
mod6: oh quarterly, looks like.
mircea_popescu: quarterly yea.
mircea_popescu: very useful item also.
mircea_popescu: the original plan was to tie in payments with deedbot payment system, and im sure that's how it'll work once that bit of infrastructure is ready.
mod6: werd. very cool.
mircea_popescu: then that can also handle deeding fees, and lo and behold, actual cryptoeconomy
mod6: outstanding
mircea_popescu: <D
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/minigame-smg-june-2017-statement/ << Trilema - MiniGame (S.MG), June 2017 Statement
deedbot: http://deedbot.org/bundle-474218.txt
phf: http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/Diaries/2017-06.html << “So far as the question I opened with is concerned — "If we tried to use our nukes, would they work?" — I'm guessing the answer is "probably not."” ☟︎
mircea_popescu: good thing mp is so wrong about things then!!!1
phf: right, corroborating point in logs
mircea_popescu: but anyway, they'll work just as well as everything else in the empire of stupid works. did "ourembargo" work ? sure, in the sense shittington post wrote about how it will, and then promptly forgot it ever happened
mircea_popescu: next issue of fiat paper will read Ourshit Dun Work instead of the racist/rapist in god we trust bit
phf: (although from the same diary page, http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/Diaries/2017-06.html#07 entry named "bitcoin bites" is just amusing)
mircea_popescu: let me guess, rehash of original "stages" curtis yarvin "argument" ?
phf: nah, a very naive, outsider "somebody gifted me bitcoin, i logged into coinbase recently and the whole experience is a piece of shit, so bitcoin, shmitcoin, whatever"
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, very fundamentally libertard this "framing" approach, quintessentially what "progress" is all about. here's what happened, now let me hallucinate a string of pseudocauses and outcomes which you can believe in!
mircea_popescu: phf i kept telling the naive early adopter noobs that gifting coin is fucking dumb.
mircea_popescu: but by definition, naive early adopters have their own ideas.
mircea_popescu: revisiting the above "progress" great lie of socialism : just as eg wikipedia parasithizes (see alf/naggum re how this works) the encyclopedia space, turning whatever it can steal into "wearenotbegging for donations", just like github tries to accrete "wild" work into something they can sell down the road to the bezzlevestor, just so school in the socialist state (as designed by trotsky, stealing from bismarck) works also on
mircea_popescu: the same great lie fundamental to all socialism.
mircea_popescu: "here's what happened, and here's our story of a string of causes which we call purposes" ☟︎
mircea_popescu: which is how every god damned kid that was sexually abused through the process of socialist schooling (which is all of them -- education is education, and socialist school is definitionally sexual abuse of all children involved) ends up with the idea that newton sat down TO discover whatever he did (unimportant, really) and THEREFORE he did. ☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: the replacement of causes with purposes in this sense is the ONLY point of "school" as the socialists do it. it's uninteresting to understand exactly what the theory of gravity is, says or does, or what a number is, or anything else of that kind
asciilifeform: !!up fromloper
deedbot: fromloper voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: fromloper: who goes there ?
mircea_popescu: what is important is for the kids to end up with the purposes idiocy implanted in their heads. and they do. which is how they end up thinking "modern medicine" has something to do with life expectancy changes. as opposed to sanitation.
mircea_popescu: and which is how they end up with all the rest of the dumb shit.
mircea_popescu: schooling for the purpose of convincing as many unexamining intellects as possible that "in the soviet union kids get icecream". if it takes putting the agitprop mechanism in the middle of the forest cuz that's where the peasants go... well, they'll mount it in a truck.
mircea_popescu: and if it takes a little incidental mention of the history of thought, fine, just as long as it's a) safely bowdlerized into nonsense and b) really, incidental to the great story.
mircea_popescu: in other words -- us schools don't work on purpose, not by accident. and like those, everything else, nukes, embargoes, name it.
asciilifeform: !~later tell phf didja change something on tehl0gz www recently ? it no longer fits on my displays w/out horizontal scrolling, is a headache
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: !~later tell phf nm, false alarm, problem was on my end
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: lel
asciilifeform has all sorts of custom strange in his local loop, and this has costs
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-06#1679600 << the bigger, imho, puzzler, is why they even bother to bring up newton ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-06 15:09 mircea_popescu: which is how every god damned kid that was sexually abused through the process of socialist schooling (which is all of them -- education is education, and socialist school is definitionally sexual abuse of all children involved) ends up with the idea that newton sat down TO discover whatever he did (unimportant, really) and THEREFORE he did.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-06#1679599 << this is implicit to any forced (i.e. for feeding to dullnormal children) linearization of history, which is at the very basic a vtree ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-06 15:08 mircea_popescu: "here's what happened, and here's our story of a string of causes which we call purposes"
asciilifeform: dun even matter by whom, communists, priests, ameritards
mircea_popescu: it's not for feeding the dullnormal, though.
mircea_popescu: quite on the contrary. that can be a pretext, if you're willing to eat it. and if not -- others available.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's for 'feeding' period. vtree is not fit for feeding to passive mouths, fella has to go out an' get it himself, i.e. the original concept of scholarship
mircea_popescu: ever since the early seeds of socialism showed up in paris (not so coincidentally, where syphilis also comes from), it's been one great race to re-construct human thought into socialistardation.
asciilifeform: 'public schooling' is certainly not about scholarship.
mircea_popescu: yeah. it's not about anything besides "here's our socialist state, it is great and statal and socialist". absolutely nothing at all.
asciilifeform: 'we are the greatest X, we are the greatest Y, nothing like us ever was' (tm)(r)
mircea_popescu: "and here's the list of necessary steps that lead to it!"
mircea_popescu: cunnigonde is ever so delighted.
mircea_popescu: (ie, voltaire shows antibodies, infection was clearly present in his environment.)
asciilifeform: infection was christianity.
mircea_popescu: only post schism
asciilifeform: ( witness how the early church bureaucrats passed off a vpress of the newtestament as 'the whole thing was always linear' )
mircea_popescu: anyway ima bbl
shinohai: This is good for Microshit http://archive.is/0gyPU
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-06#1679586 << lulzily from same, 'math corner' , in re ye olde http://trilema.com/2017/time-to-get-out-by-the-way/ >> http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/Diaries/2017-05.html#20 ( motherfucker makes his pgs unlinkable individually ) ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-06 14:50 phf: http://www.johnderbyshire.com/Opinions/Diaries/2017-06.html << “So far as the question I opened with is concerned — "If we tried to use our nukes, would they work?" — I'm guessing the answer is "probably not."”
asciilifeform: 'You can't escape this garbage, even in the pages of respectable math journals. There are no safe spaces. We are doomed.'
asciilifeform: in other crackpotteries, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-06-21#1673058 >> http://www.migaloo-submarines.com << claims to sell 'submersible yachts'. asciilifeform watched the ad film, horrified, thing has WINDOWS ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-06-21 15:10 mircea_popescu: rules to fucking live by, you know, "by the time you feel like you wanna live in a submarine, it's time to gtfo and find a better place."
asciilifeform: and... ACRYLIC pressure hull.
asciilifeform: didjaknow.
asciilifeform: and... '2 x 1200 kW, Li-Ion-Batteries' ahahaha
asciilifeform: in terms of separating moneyed idiots from the moolah -- this beats the 'chilean gulch' thing.
asciilifeform: in sheer audacity.
mod6: lol
asciilifeform: abuse of units, incidentally, if this were an actual spec it would read 'kW/H'
asciilifeform: quite obviously not proofread / no actual technical whatevers. involved in its making.
mod6: smh
BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2017/05/fiat-wraps-up-miserable-may-as-malaise-reaches-new-lows/#comment-104453
asciilifeform: 'even if i run the real bitcoin node, my bitcoins price are going to crash. you can try to isolate yourself with that software, but the price is subjected to whats going on outside.'
asciilifeform: gold
asciilifeform: apparently asciilifeform has been Doing It All Wrong
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is more complicated. original church was very much republic, much like original us presidency. then the socialistards got roosevelt in and broke it. similarily to how empire meant something, before napoleon.
asciilifeform: where do i download the client that makes usd exchange rate 1giga ???
mircea_popescu: the usual mo is this, very strictly antiauthoritarian, "we'll get our own schmuck emperor and then ruin the thing"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha, 'taiwanization'
mircea_popescu: i suppose technically roosevelt broke the shattered remains left after monkeyboy lincoln, but still, general idea.
asciilifeform: and lincoln broke what monkeyboy washington/hamilton left
mircea_popescu: that part i'm not convinced of.
mircea_popescu: who was the proper rep there, jefferson ?
asciilifeform: him, and, iirc, gallatin
mircea_popescu: i don't really see it. jefferson, for all his popularity, was intellectually ~nil.
mircea_popescu: his "ideas" if you can call them that are all sorta broken.
asciilifeform: j wasn't an 'idea man', no
mircea_popescu: so then how can he rep
asciilifeform: but more notable for what he ~wasn't~ doing
asciilifeform: i.e. centralized megastate
mircea_popescu: in this sense the washington monument was the proper government lol
mircea_popescu: hamilton wasn't doping centralized megastate either. it's unclear what washington wass doing, as also not idea man, but probably ALSO not megastate judging by how if he were, he'd have been the king of united states literally.
asciilifeform: consider also shay's and 'whiskey' rebellions
mircea_popescu: what about them are we considering ?
asciilifeform: shay's was the start of usg's long and happy tradition of not paying debts when it dun feel like
asciilifeform: and, as side effect, put washington into presidency
mircea_popescu: veterans not getting paid what they thought was fair is an absolute part of all war.
mircea_popescu: this is the dark secret of gender disparity : after the deed's done, woman gets more than she expected, and man less.
asciilifeform: veterans in debt/starvation is generally part of ~loser~'s side of war
asciilifeform: not winner
asciilifeform: as for whiskey rebellion -- that's when usg first switched to collecting tax forcibly, vs tmsr-style. buncha 'uppity' folx didn't 'get the memo', hanged a few tax collectors, massacred.
mircea_popescu: now how is this relating to say hamilton in preference of say monroe ?
asciilifeform: hamilton was 'washington's brain'
mircea_popescu: recall (part of why i even republishedf that) -- hamilton was an original, and originally a lonely, voice in the "to spend -- you MUST first tax" camp.
mircea_popescu: this is very weak.
asciilifeform: ( w was a quasiliterate )
mircea_popescu: also, "tmsr style" may be a misnomer. the republic receiving tax from the lords voluntarily is one thing, but there's nowehre in statute or custom where it says lord can't grind into paste any subhuman peons it gets his hands on, to extract whatever he extracts.
asciilifeform: at the risk of oversimplification -- washington & co were in favour of setting up 'an england'; j & co -- 'an italy'
mircea_popescu: leaving aside that "an italy" would have been utterly horrible, there's no significant difference between these in respects that interest us. neither wanted "a holy roman empire", and so... ☟︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that'd be 'a lord', rather than 'a crown purportedly acting in the name of all lords'
mircea_popescu: for the schmucks getting the sharp end of that stick, the difference will be negligible.
asciilifeform: turns out -- not so negligible. nobody in pre-unifications europe paid anything like modern peasant's tax rate
mircea_popescu: and "shoulda been in the forum a while back" will not parse to anything, either.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and nobody had anything like modern peasant's productivity, either.
asciilifeform: what's that to do with the theft rate ?
mircea_popescu: here's thje thing. if your capital good worth 100 btc produces 1 btc a year and you pay real estate tax of 0.5% and no income tax, you're payinfg half your income each year.
mircea_popescu: if your 100 btc capital good produces 1k btc a year, and you pay 1 bitcent in real estate tax and 50% income tax, you're paying... half your income each year, plus a bitcent.
mircea_popescu: inflation works this.
mircea_popescu: and yes they had re tax : to own a plot of land you produced knights.
mircea_popescu: very carefully weighed and so on, since before 1k ad, too.
asciilifeform: 'your 100 btc capital good produces 1k btc a year' << where does the + come from in this scenario ?
asciilifeform: i dun get it
asciilifeform: ( why would a $good that spews forth 1000, be valued at 100 ?? )
mircea_popescu: well, look at modern business. you throw up a bunch of vynil fresh off the boat, worth 40k if you're drunk that day, and call it a restaurant. then you expect revenue in the mn+ ayear.
PeterL: how about a shovel, costs 10 bucks, but you can make 10 bucks an hour wielding it?
asciilifeform: how's that to work, unless the thing is built on top of a petrowell, in the basement
mircea_popescu: medieval time, you built, out of stone, a tiny shop, cost about a hundred million in today's fiats, and got custom worth... you kjnow, 200 bux a day.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform look into small business papers sometime ? waht can i tell yoiu, the bezzle's the bezzle, it's what it does.
asciilifeform: PeterL: the system in question is not the shovel, but you+shovel, and it'd sell for >10bux on slavemarket
mircea_popescu: it's why dorks like it, too. "wealth for everyone!"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: smells of memoryleak
asciilifeform: 'where is the + coming from'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i was discussing capital goods not labour.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the + is coming oiut of the fed imaginary account, which is cvurrently still credited by china.
mircea_popescu: anyway, PeterL has a solid point : you may think of whatever split between capital goods and labour, but fact is, at the time we are discussing the shovel owned oyu, not the other wayu around. if you owned a shovel you were god damned out there shoveling every day.
mircea_popescu: none of this, "i have these toys in my shop, which i play with today".
mircea_popescu: bitch, you had an harmonica you harmonicaed.
mircea_popescu: ie, historically more yous was the only thing they actually knew how to make. so they did. so... not much of a problem.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-06#1679687 << i'ma very curious nao, what mircea_popescu finds so horrible about the original disunified italies - y'know, the place that contained the original tmsr... ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-06 20:46 mircea_popescu: leaving aside that "an italy" would have been utterly horrible, there's no significant difference between these in respects that interest us. neither wanted "a holy roman empire", and so...
asciilifeform brb, tea
mircea_popescu: the disunified italies contained the original argentina and no more.
mircea_popescu: buncha uppity "students" sitting around coffee tables and being idea men. fuck them with the boot shaped peninsula.
mircea_popescu: you can go to the acropolis right now, see the useless fucktarded greeks sitting around. ~same bs.
mircea_popescu: !~google tiganiada
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Țiganiada - Wikisource: <https://ro.wikisource.org/wiki/%25C8%259Aiganiada>; Tiganiada - Ion Budai Deleanu - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DbJIT4LKDjV4>; Amazon.com: Tiganiada (Romanian Edition) (9786069830864): Ion ...: <https://www.amazon.com/Tiganiada-Romanian-Ion-Budai-Deleanu/dp/6069830865> ☟︎
mircea_popescu: ^ very much recommend. better history of italy than any italian ever could write.
mircea_popescu: for that matter, you can drink in tardstalk/reddit/what have you, have your fill.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lol, venice (tmsr!), genoa, florence, all shitholes in the parallel universe mircea_popescu apparently posts from?
PeterL: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/S4MzV/?raw=true << mpfhf in python , I was thinking about http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-05#1679471 and flipping a single bit instead of going through the whole array ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-05 22:28 asciilifeform: re mircea_popescu's hash, another observation : it is not ever necessary to actually invert S. ( i will leave the reason for this, again, as an exercise to readers )
mircea_popescu: what you said parsed as 1800 italy. which italy did you have in mind ?
mircea_popescu: you can't fucking reference the original, 1200 tmsr as "disunified italy" wtf is this.
asciilifeform: disunified - i.e. pre-garibaldi
mircea_popescu: that is 1800s.
asciilifeform: pre-washingtonization
mircea_popescu: if you had venice in mind, it'd be more proper to say original pre-unified european union.
asciilifeform: i.e. when 'italy' was a topographic name
asciilifeform: not 1800s, lol!
mircea_popescu: italy was used as a topographic name in the late empire (ie, 300s, italia) and else in the late 1800s
mircea_popescu: anyway, there's entirely no relation between garibaldi and say venice. you wanna talk d'este, sforza, zee germanz etc.
asciilifeform: well noshit.
asciilifeform: but garibaldization removes even possibility of venices.
asciilifeform: ditto washingtonization, bismarckization.
mircea_popescu: by the time garibaldi was even a thing, the lido had long been sanded.
mircea_popescu: i tihnk you have no appreciation of the fact that a thousand years is much MUCH wider than the piddly 5k kms making up the us sideways.
mircea_popescu: somehow in your mind these two things, one on mars, the other on alpha centauri, kinda meld into a single item
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: so argument is, no venice was possible ? why bash garibaldi then
mircea_popescu: i was not. i was stating the gypos then befouling the peninsula are not worthy of inclusion in the species.
asciilifeform: theoretically 'articles of confederation' america could've been moar venice than gypo.
asciilifeform: but washington/hamilton, with their bait'an'switch trick, nuked that.
mircea_popescu: not really. could have been more romiche reich than empire francais, at the very most.
mircea_popescu: that it wasn't is principally due to the germans being congenitally retarded, and no moar.
mircea_popescu: ye olde "live and let live" whereby the conservative is always in the end hung.
asciilifeform: picture if plantation states had managed to build a reasonable defensive army ( feodal-style; with purchased arms, mercenaries.. )
mircea_popescu: no. picture if plantation owners marched on washington in 1812, and hung a) all declared abolitionists ; b) any preacher of any kind ; c) any old women who did not applaud a and b.
mircea_popescu: THAT is what i mean by "ye olde "live and let live" whereby the conservative is always in the end hung.".
asciilifeform: well yes
mircea_popescu: well yes and no more.
asciilifeform: that's what 'defense' would've rightfully consisted of
asciilifeform: 'good offense'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: soo the 1812 thing - yer thinking of a separate 'southern' peace with britain..?
mircea_popescu: nope.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the ~only morally or intellectually respectable character in italy, ie the 1800s thing, was to be founbd not in italy but in sicily, which is altogether a different place.
mircea_popescu: he is the continuator of the ancient military traditions of aristocracy, and he yielded the caudillo in south america. he yielded nothing in the southern us, principally because, agian, the germans are congenitally retarded.
mircea_popescu: in sicily he is known as the honorable man, ie mobster.
mircea_popescu: had the south managed to produce a de rosas, it'd have been a very different place. substantially, not just superficially.
mircea_popescu: but as it is -- 19.95 and would you like paper or pl;astioc bag ?
asciilifeform: de rosas was fighting other agrarians, neh
asciilifeform: rather than technologically superior 'martians'
mircea_popescu: england, france, the usual muck.
asciilifeform: england, france, were far
asciilifeform: getting materiel to sa was then almost as today is to orbit
mircea_popescu: closer than they were in 1812
asciilifeform: tru
mircea_popescu: and argentina much closer than japan.
mircea_popescu: or -- india.
mircea_popescu: much lower "perceived spoiliage value", however. and this because indians aren't worth jack shit in a fight ; whreas rosas kinda scared them
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/07/illinois-personal-income-tax-rising-13-over-governors-objections/ << Qntra - Illinois Personal Income Tax Rising ~1/3 Over Governor's Objections
BingoBoingo: ^ In other CHIraqi failed states
mircea_popescu: 1/3 whats ?
BingoBoingo: of what it was
mircea_popescu: so by ~1/3rd ?
BingoBoingo: ty fxd
phf: shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-06#1679724 i just noticed that jhvh1 seems to mangle urls with escape sequences in them on search ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-06 21:05 jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Țiganiada - Wikisource: <https://ro.wikisource.org/wiki/%25C8%259Aiganiada>; Tiganiada - Ion Budai Deleanu - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DbJIT4LKDjV4>; Amazon.com: Tiganiada (Romanian Edition) (9786069830864): Ion ...: <https://www.amazon.com/Tiganiada-Romanian-Ion-Budai-Deleanu/dp/6069830865>
shinohai: Yeah phf ....it's the heathen google plugin that came with gribble. I haven't bothered to fix, sorry, since I have a rewrite in the worx
phf: actually, not sure what's going on, that youtube url has slashes escaped for some reason
phf: no worries, just didn't know if you knew
shinohai: While Limnoria is stable bot platform, the way it handles plugins does a lot of crazy shit I've never been able to fix. :/
mircea_popescu: do they have a chatroom for bugs and suych ?
shinohai: I was in there like maybe a year ago, it's definitely as dead as #b-a