log☇︎
522 entries in 0.643s
asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: i wrote rotor for a reason
assbot: Logged on 08-08-2015 19:37:33; mod6: asciilifeform, mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes: rotor built successfully.
mod6: trinque: would you be opposed to resubmitting your patch for the rotor to the ML as a attachment with a detached sig? I have a list of concise steps that is basically a simple script to do all of the steps to build rotor/static-deterministic-stator just need to get that piece into place. that's the only manual step at this point.
mod6: asciilifeform, mircea_popescu, ben_vulpes: rotor built successfully. ☟︎
trinque: mod6 | The whole 'we need to get to a sane environment -- let's use Gentoo' idea was pre-dated the rotor. Now I just gotta get rotor to work for me :] << for sure; my current efforts are directed at the problem of n00bs showing up, asking for a gentleman's computer, and getting five hundred contradictory answers on how to set it up
asciilifeform: even if using 'rotor', you still gotta live in that linux.
mircea_popescu: but otherwise the point is correct, the gentoo choice predated the rotor and proibably was made obsolete by it
mircea_popescu: <mod6> Sure thing. Agree 100%, but since 'rotor' can run on any "sane" linux (to quote ascii), we don't have to marry ourselves to Gentoo << not clear there exist any sane linuxen ; not clear that if we don't marry to something there'll be anything left next year. that sorta thing.
mod6: The whole 'we need to get to a sane environment -- let's use Gentoo' idea was pre-dated the rotor. Now I just gotta get rotor to work for me :]
mod6: Sure thing. Agree 100%, but since 'rotor' can run on any "sane" linux (to quote ascii), we don't have to marry ourselves to Gentoo and thereby also provide steps to build Gentoo. As 'rotor' should work basically anywhere. Needs to really.
mod6: So now that we have 'rotor', most likly we won't need to have the gentoo guide. We'll see how it goes but in the future we'll probably just point people at the gentoo handbook if they want to run Gentoo.
pete_dushenski: the 'rotor' of cars !
assbot: Logged on 03-04-2015 03:22:33; asciilifeform: (if fella who turns, is 'rotor')
assbot: [BTC-dev] Rotor! ... ( http://bit.ly/1InQxW4 )
ben_vulpes: $ rotor
asciilifeform: could try rotor
mod6: I'm gonna re-tackle the rotor build tomorrow btw.
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> twould please him no end to see test reports coming in from that platform << certainly let me know how it goes. yeah, might have issues with rotor on there. I'm still sync'ing my obsd bitcoind build (patched up through -verifyall).
shinohai hopes ascii_field will post a rotor build log for arm folks soon ...
gernika: Incidentally I spent about 1hr attempting to build rotor on OpenBSD - got buried in tiny differences between bsd/linux.
gernika: Because I won't be able to build it "deterministically" without rotor. Was my thinking.
ascii_field: shinohai: you have 'rotor' built, yes ?
assbot: Logged on 05-08-2015 04:53:37; asciilifeform: the 'rotor' toolchain, for instance, tripped up some folks. but it needs to be built ~once per machine~
mod6: as you can see clearsign mangles the text: - --- a/rotor.sh .... - -../dist/configure
assbot: [BTC-dev] Rotor! ... ( http://bit.ly/1eTvVxp )
assbot: [BTC-dev] Rotor! ... ( http://bit.ly/1eTvVxp )
assbot: Logged on 31-07-2015 21:50:52; hanbot: ascii_field hanbot, what are the remaining issues? << rotor.sh sez: http://thewhet.net/han/rotorfail.txt (no patches) meanwhile mod6 has made progress on RI on ubuntu so still working on "manual" stator build.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: i carefully summarized the antecedents to 'stator' for hanbot (see log) << stator, rotor work to build a bitcoind on the "mint" ubuntu-like. Don't remember installing more dev tools after g++ for stator
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: yes, and that ought to be in every release << and this raises another question, shall mod6 and i now switch our build process to involve the rotor assemblage?
trinque: my only problem with rotor was that berkdb is a piece of shit, ignored env vars that every ball o' source should care about without its own magical flag
ben_vulpes: now is when i admit that i've yet to successfully compile bitcoin with rotor
asciilifeform: the 'rotor' toolchain, for instance, tripped up some folks. but it needs to be built ~once per machine~ ☟︎
trinque: I had a hell of a time figuring out where I should be re: patches, at least before giving up and using rotor instead.
decimation: one nice thing about 'rotor' system: only one choice of build environment
asciilifeform: mod6: have you had a chance to build 'rotor' ?
asciilifeform: 'rotor' makes use of nothing other than the libs we include
trinque: and also in rotor.sh, every mention of 64 must change
gernika: mod6 Built v0.5.4-TEST2 with rotor but can't run it on the system I built it on because: "-bash: ./bitcoind: cannot execute binary file: Exec format error." This is on gentoo built from stage3-i486-20150728.tar.bz2
gernika: mod6 asciilifeform fyi I just successfully built stator bitcoind on top of rotor. Gentoo inside Parallels. Needed trinque's patch.
asciilifeform: ^ anyone who had troubles with 'rotor', plz read ^ !
assbot: [BTC-dev] Rotor! ... ( http://bit.ly/1hbPG4Q )
hanbot: ascii_field hanbot, what are the remaining issues? << rotor.sh sez: http://thewhet.net/han/rotorfail.txt (no patches) meanwhile mod6 has made progress on RI on ubuntu so still working on "manual" stator build. ☟︎
asciilifeform: mod6, ben_vulpes, trinque, et al: if any of you had problems with 'rotor,' be aware that the toolchain dir and its contents CANNOT BE MOVED OR RENAMED
ascii_field: trinque: this is not specific to rotor !!
trinque: which reminds me, my rotor instance chewed up its db when a drive's usb cable disconnected
trinque: the rotor problem mod6 and I ran into was simple as can be
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 06:32:42; trinque: asciilifeform: mod6: ben_vulpes: hey, I fixed rotor.sh on my box by adding --host=x86_64-linux to the configure step for bdb
trinque: asciilifeform: mod6: ben_vulpes: hey, I fixed rotor.sh on my box by adding --host=x86_64-linux to the configure step for bdb ☟︎
trinque: mod6: https://community.oracle.com/thread/2322618?tstart=0 << here's somebody bitching about the rotor db build error we saw... on solaris
decimation: the summary is that you gotta go through about 50 pages of 'rotor build instructions' to even start to reach the 'eal4' state
mod6: i'll have to take another crack at rotor after month end.
asciilifeform: i will repeat that rotor binary ~is expected to work on all linux from 2.6+~
decimation: mod6: you got rotor to build?
asciilifeform: but ~i personally~ will from now on support ~only~ rotor. and soon after, only rotolinux (buildroot for arbitrary arch that includes therealbitcoin and its deps, and toolchain to reconstruct self and the latter.) ☟︎
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 03:02:01; decimation: lol 'rotor' immediately fails on osx 10.10 with "You need at least one UTF8 locale to build a toolchain supporting locales"
decimation: lol 'rotor' immediately fails on osx 10.10 with "You need at least one UTF8 locale to build a toolchain supporting locales" ☟︎
mod6: not even for a few months -- even before rotor came out.
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 22:58:15; mod6: How one builds the source is entire up to the user. There may be preferred way so of doing this, such as 'rotor' and so forth. And we'll participate in creating cookbooks and guides on how to do this. But we no longer are going to fight through these environment problems.
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 23:05:49; mod6: Trying to create a one-size-fits-all script for everyone to use to build this thing is not going to work. And how does one bundle up something such as 'rotor' and end up not maintaining buildroot and everything else? That's a game that I'm not interested in playing. And it's dangerous for us to go that direction.
shinohai: If anyone gets rotor to successfully build on the pogo, please, by all means contact me.
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 22:58:15; mod6: How one builds the source is entire up to the user. There may be preferred way so of doing this, such as 'rotor' and so forth. And we'll participate in creating cookbooks and guides on how to do this. But we no longer are going to fight through these environment problems.
mod6: That all being said, I'm super glad that 'rotor' is out there now, and I hope to learn and use it one day myself. Maybe even this week! But that shouldn't be something that we deliver.
mod6: Trying to create a one-size-fits-all script for everyone to use to build this thing is not going to work. And how does one bundle up something such as 'rotor' and end up not maintaining buildroot and everything else? That's a game that I'm not interested in playing. And it's dangerous for us to go that direction. ☟︎
mod6: How one builds the source is entire up to the user. There may be preferred way so of doing this, such as 'rotor' and so forth. And we'll participate in creating cookbooks and guides on how to do this. But we no longer are going to fight through these environment problems. ☟︎☟︎
phf: is bitcoind basically a new buildroot package or you're doing shellscripts? (sorry, i've not had a chance to look at rotor yet)
ascii_field: phf: the other purpose of 'rotor' is to have a 100% deterministic build
ascii_field: 'rotor' is the result.
phf: is rotor intended for general distribution, that is non-specialist should be able to download and do an independent turnkey build?
shinohai: I'm going to try the pogo build with rotor again later this evening. So everyone wish me luck.
ascii_field: (use the envir vars set in rotor.sh)
mod6: isn't rotor just 'old-stator' (from a few months ago) + buildroot & openssl patch?
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 14:01:24; mod6: asciilifeform: if folks want to build obsolete crud, it is their business; but i would like to make sure they know that it is obsolete crud, and that i can either try to somehow support it XOR release new stuff ('rotor' etc) << are you infavor of releasing 'rotor'?
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-07-2015#1216599 << release is of source, rather than binary, so not sure how much of a difference it makes for the release. but it'd be nice if folks were bashing their heads agains the wall to build rotor - a fully de-drepperized bitcoin - than the old stator, imho ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-07-2015 13:23:41; asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-07-2015#1216398 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-07-2015#1216402 << if folks want to build obsolete crud, it is their business; but i would like to make sure they know that it is obsolete crud, and that i can either try to somehow support it XOR release new stuff ('rotor' etc)
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-07-2015#1216494 << finally looking at 'rotor' now ☝︎
mod6: asciilifeform: if folks want to build obsolete crud, it is their business; but i would like to make sure they know that it is obsolete crud, and that i can either try to somehow support it XOR release new stuff ('rotor' etc) << are you infavor of releasing 'rotor'? ☟︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: have you a working 'rotor' ?
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-07-2015#1216398 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-07-2015#1216402 << if folks want to build obsolete crud, it is their business; but i would like to make sure they know that it is obsolete crud, and that i can either try to somehow support it XOR release new stuff ('rotor' etc) ☝︎☝︎☟︎
asciilifeform: (read rotor.sh, it becomes very clear)
asciilifeform: hanbot: the basic idea of 'rotor' is that you have quite the same stator as before, but it is built with a toolchain (gcc and binutils) that were built for the occasion, and use musl
asciilifeform: hanbot: you will have a dir, outermost, named what you like - e.g., 'rotor', and then rotor/toolchain and rotor/buildroot-xxx and rotor/stator, inside the latter - quite the same thing as in normal stator, other than the musl patch and the rotor.sh script (replacing the old stator.sh)
hanbot: say asciilifeform, can this line from rotor step 6) be devague-ified? "and fill distfiles with tarballs, etc. as before."
ascii_field: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=28-07-2015#1215252 << stator and rotor are kludges until the buildroot packages (as alluded to last night) are done. ☝︎
ascii_field: so shinohai is a winner! first fella to repeat 'rotor' ?
ascii_field: (did anybody actually get 'rotor' running, or mircea_popescu et al are only clapping in anticipation ?)
asciilifeform: the next step will be to turn 'rotor' into a buildroot package properly speaking (like all the various packages that come with buildroot)
assbot: [BTC-dev] Rotor! ... ( http://bit.ly/1InQxW4 )
mod6: hmm, so after that, i commented out the configure/build parts for openssl/bdb/boost from rotor.sh and re-ran rotor.sh, and it started to compile... failed. couldn't find the BDB stuff.
mod6: asciilifeform: got all the way through boost build with rotor, but not sure yet why this happened: http://dpaste.com/0DZW6G0.txt
assbot: [BTC-dev] Rotor! ... ( http://bit.ly/1InQxW4 )
decimation: ^ note it has "inboard" tail rotor
asciilifeform: in late '80s - early '90s, laughably weak symmetric crypto (even rotor machines !) were still in use worldwide, for instance
asciilifeform: (if fella who turns, is 'rotor') ☟︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ... dude what the fuck is so very convenient about all the rotor bs i dunno << short keys
mircea_popescu: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-04-2015#1083849 << dude what the fuck is so very convenient about all the rotor bs i dunno.
asciilifeform: all the rotor machines were much alike.
asciilifeform: funny how they gave a damn re: tempest on a fucking ROTOR CRYPTO MACHINE
asciilifeform: also a kind of 'software hammer' where unbalanced rotor effect was induced
asciilifeform: more like cracking a rotor
asciilifeform: except you don't have a rotor or stator as such, they're dynamically 'moving' via phase shifting