▁▁▁▁▁⏐︎▁▁▁ 5349
BingoBoingo: !~bcstats
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 487744 | Current Difficulty: 1.103400932964E12 | Next Difficulty At Block: 487871 | Next Difficulty In: 127 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 21 hours, 43 minutes, and 39 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
mircea_popescu: what's new elaineo
mircea_popescu: !!up elaineo
deedbot: elaineo voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: what's it say ?
elaineo: i got the OTP through PM
elaineo: but no response after decrypting msg
mircea_popescu: hm.
mircea_popescu: trinque is deedbot sick ? i notice he kinda quit doing the rss also
elaineo: deedbot is a dude?
mircea_popescu: elaineo did you say something just like http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-26#1717369 to it ? except diff numbers of course ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-26 04:39 mircea_popescu: !!v D4088521A7610AB73BAEDE6391EB686B1BDAD174263DFECC60AD9707A0674ECD
mircea_popescu: no, deedbot is an actual bot ; oglafbot is an actual dude.
elaineo: forgot the 'v', my mistake
mircea_popescu: a
elaineo: is qntra still a thing?
mircea_popescu: yes, but it has joined the chorus invisible for the time being.
mircea_popescu: gotta get hosting sorted out.
mircea_popescu: "Nobody becomes a software engineer because they love writing code; they become a software engineer because it allows them to build out ideas." << this is not so in my experience. from what i've seen in others, and certainyl in my own case, we become engineers because everythinf everyone else does is shit.
mircea_popescu: i came out of retirement for like the third fucking time to design non-crap items ; asciilifeform narrowly avoided the bottle because apparently there were some people somewhere actually engineering, as opposed to tubgirling all over themnselves. and so following.
mircea_popescu: (btw, check out how sentence references work on trilema : http://trilema.com/2017/the-masters-textbook-why-do-girls-seek-you-out/#selection-39.0-39.40 ) ☟︎
elaineo: is your intention to show others how to build things properly, or to solve your own problems because no one is doing it for you?
mircea_popescu: the latter.
mircea_popescu: this is a matter of incontrovertible fact, signed by the hand of the author himself : if i didn't HAVE TO write http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/in-re-bitcoin-devs-are-idiots.htm and such, nobody "involved in bitcoin" would even know my name.
elaineo: that's probably a better way of saying what i meant to say, then
mircea_popescu: i dunno how common this case is in general ; but i guarantee it is the only case where it actually matters, which is to say at the top. that's why torvalds got off ass, that's why rich got off ass, pick any one of the actually competent.
elaineo: why did you feel compelled to write "In re Bitcoin Devs are idiots" ? did code stop sucking after that post?
mircea_popescu: it did not stop sucking, no. but it did suck then.
mircea_popescu: "If you’re a Venture Capitalist, the last thing you want is for your child to go into wage slavery." << more in the same vein. i do take the tack you recommend ("you have no choice in the matter ; the bullwhip is right over there if this doesn't translate otherwise") with my own slavegirls, in a limited sense, thereby forcing them to proficiency in ~certain aspects~ of software engineering. those aspects are exactly those a
mircea_popescu: lligned with the above -- woman, you have to be able to think clearly, and correctly, and when i say "take no crap from anyone, be it wikipedia or your mom", i actually mean ~something~. it's not a ra ra ra, it's an actually specified artefact, it belongs in engineering, with process assurance and quality control and all that jazz, not as part of a pep rally.
mircea_popescu: being a ~competent~ engineer, of any kind, can't possibly be a regression. it's intellectually required for human life.
elaineo: why do your slavegirls submit to you? one can easily imagine an alternate universe where your slavegirls mistakenly chose a master that whips em in another direction
mircea_popescu: one could indeed readily so imagine ; doesn't take much.
mircea_popescu: amusingly, 3k word answer to your q is quoted above, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-01#1718967 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-01 03:06 mircea_popescu: (btw, check out how sentence references work on trilema : http://trilema.com/2017/the-masters-textbook-why-do-girls-seek-you-out/#selection-39.0-39.40 )
elaineo: "because you're capable of making silence, annulling the noise such that they can focus on the things that actually matter, to them."
mircea_popescu: aha!
mircea_popescu is happy with that as a one line summary.
mircea_popescu: "The most important tech skill, then, isn’t computers or engineering — It’s the art of getting paid to control vast amounts of money." << this then is rank nonsense on the level of "the best car is one with a really powerful engine". really, no steering needed ? brakes optional ? some people are good at finance, some people are horrible at it. yes, fixing your head so you don't suck at finance is absolute requirement fo
mircea_popescu: r human completeness. fixing your head so you don't suck at engineering is earlier stop on the same road. first, you learn to walk, THEN you learn to fuck. "the most important skill" is a discussion of age and station appropriateness, naught else.
elaineo: who is "you" in this piece? yourself, mircea_popescu? or self-perceived masters in general?
mircea_popescu: elaineo well, a master, i expect. but not self perceived, perception dun enter into it. substantial master.
elaineo: oh come on. why would fixing your head so you don't suck at engineering be a prerequisite? Did you learn to be a good slavegirl before you could be a master?
mircea_popescu: no, i did not. but the reason is unrelated : engineering deals with discrete, concrete items, before your eyes. finance deals with complex systems of such items.
mircea_popescu: trying to "understand thermodynamics" without any shits given for the atomic theory will result in tears.
BingoBoingo: <elaineo> "because you're capable of making silence, annulling the noise such that they can focus on the things that actually matter, to them." << This makes those iDiot slabs anti-Master!
elaineo: @mircea_popescu having never worked in finance, i suppose i'll take your word for it, for now ☟︎
mircea_popescu: moreover, consider the case of mr hruschev of the soviets vs mr lee of the singaporeans. it is a factual matter that no one to date had control, properly called financial in this context, of more resources than hruschev. nor probably ever will. what good did it do him ? and lee started with two old boats and some captured rats. he grilled the rats, sold them and went from there, completing one of the very few cases documented
mircea_popescu: to date of that ancient boyish dream of you know, "trading toothpicks for car parts and those for plastic bags and so on until trillionaire!"
mircea_popescu: but this aside, you familiar with the general fate of lottery winners ?
elaineo: yes, i am
mircea_popescu: having a large army behind you (and money is strictly nothing but) is, obviously, an important ingredient in gaining battlefield glory and the laurels of caesar.
elaineo: lottery winners not really comparable, since they are not competent in finance, engineering, or much of anything
mircea_popescu: no argument here. however, crassus was ill served by his army at carrhae.
mircea_popescu: elaineo but they do control outsized chunks of money.
elaineo: look at the rothschilds & rockefellers
mircea_popescu: i am looking. what am i expected to see ?
elaineo: they controlled outsized chunks of money, and thus human labor
mircea_popescu: this is a dubious statement of the actual history of the matter.
mircea_popescu: consider it from this angle : for 1 point, who was emperor maximillian ; for 1 point, what did he order be done to his artillery pieces and in which town ; for a further point who happened to live there and for the remainder 6 poins, why did you not say his name ?
mircea_popescu: when you pick two examples but fail to pick the proper one among them, teacher knows you didn;t actually do the reading.
elaineo: 0 points for me
mircea_popescu: jakob fugger was the proper example for this "rich man financing the dissolution of medieval system into industrial society". and the emperor had his artillery wheels bound in hay so as to not disturb his sleep.
mircea_popescu: this may suggest that "human capital" was of no importance, value or interest. what mattered was ailleurs.
mircea_popescu: now then -- the iliterate migrant worker who wins 100mn worth of powerball you would have learn how to read and write so the shysters won't trick him with contracts. this makes sense. yet the innocent daughter of a VC you wouldn't have understand engineering, so the shysters won't feed her crap in their description of "reality" ? what's this girl to do if she ever has to fix her car, pay 8k for a new johnson rod, like george
mircea_popescu: costanza ?
mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am8mbOeKBzE << teh johnson rod.
elaineo: understanding engineering is a subset of what it takes to not be a moron, which is a subset of what it takes to be a VC
elaineo: what mattered was ailleurs.
mircea_popescu: tell ?
elaineo: oh, i dunno. just copied & pasted a sentence from what you said above.
mircea_popescu: lol, what's that, some google ai thing ?
elaineo: cargo cult arguing-on-the-internet
mircea_popescu: ailleurs there is a reference to "la joie c'est ailleurs", which is my own reprocessing of "la vie est ailleurs", which is a kundera novel, and the yarn of reference, criticism and tongue in cheekness does continue
elaineo: was anyone expected to understand that reference aside from yourself? ☟︎
mircea_popescu: yes. everyone was expected to understand the reference.
mircea_popescu: dja ever read milan kundera btw ?
elaineo: nope
mircea_popescu: ah, too bad. i'd expect you'd like him, seems to me exactly in your style.
mircea_popescu: though granted this may be more a description of my poor understanding of selfsame styler.
elaineo: interesting... i'll check out one of his books
mircea_popescu: so supposing you were going to teach me about capitalism ... what would you say ?
elaineo: i've never been an investor so i don't know what it takes to be successful at one. i suppose it starts with understanding supply, demand, transaction costs
mircea_popescu: hm.
mircea_popescu: eh, i find it hard to believe you can live in bay area and not be an investor. don't they force-feed everyone stocks, options, etcetera as part of employment there ?
elaineo: i get stock options, but i don't think that makes me an investor. stock options are like S&H greenstamps, where you feel like you're getting something valuable for free but you're not
mircea_popescu: well, technically the definition of investor, neh ? one who owns commercial paper in excess of 0 cash nominal value.
elaineo: by that definition, sure. though it doesn't really make me diversified.
mircea_popescu: i expect not. so why do you expect other people/parents who don't even have enough sense to find #trilema could teach their kids anything, including how to make mayo ? leaving aside something as intricate as capitalism.
elaineo: they don't need to teach their kids anything. systematically discern the essential from the unimportant. the whole master/slavegirl making silence thing
BingoBoingo: Capitalism is simple. Just focus on doing the next right thing and making the world a better place, for you.
mircea_popescu: elaineo this works well for adults. kids need to be fed.
mircea_popescu: otherwise, indian continent wolves adopting indian kids into their litters make excellent parents.
BingoBoingo: Excellent in comparison to the Bhararas
elaineo: never had to deal with kids. if the indian wolf-kids are happy, well...
mircea_popescu: if they're not happy, they'll bark their unhappiness to the stars above.
BingoBoingo: !!up TomServo
deedbot: TomServo voiced for 30 minutes.
TomServo: Greetings BingoBoingo
BingoBoingo: Likewise
mircea_popescu: "If pet food companies used the same business model as startups: Jim creates a dog food factory and gives away dog food for free. 450 million dogs line up for free dog food. Purina Dog Chow understands that non-paying dog food consumers are currency, and buys Jim’s factory for $42 per dog." << in other historical elaineo lulz. ☟︎☟︎
elaineo: those were the numbers from Facebook's acquisition of Whatsapp
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: i recall. was well received here too. somehow it's not money laudnering when the right idiots do it.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in historical elaineo terrible, "Uber is a great example of a hack: Taxicab licensing rules are annoying and only serve to make a few people’s lives better (the taxi medallion owners) while making many people’s lives worse. Waze allows drivers to report speed traps and police checkpoints because we all know that CHP officers only issue tickets to fill their quotas. Airbnb shirks rental and zoning regulations, an
mircea_popescu: d the world is arguably a better place for it."
mircea_popescu: dja think any of that is defensible ?
elaineo: the first two, yes. airbnb, no.
mircea_popescu: let's take the first one. why would $random city in $national country give up its taxi transportation system to the usg ?
elaineo: to ensure equal service to underserved minorities
mircea_popescu: so that self-important schmucks in washington can spy on foreign nationals daily, and now and again "sanction" foreign government with taxi strike generated in the usual manner ?
mircea_popescu: but what actually happens is that the blue state will tryt to get people who didn't vote for the pantsuited hilarity unable to use cabs.
mircea_popescu: in actual point of practice. no "underserved minority" is getting into the recent suv crossover.
elaineo: hold up - you are equating Uber with USG?
mircea_popescu: yes.\
mircea_popescu: all "us registered corporations" are simply agencies of the usg.
mircea_popescu: "regulatory compliance" it's called in-universe. but in practice, they're exactly like the old time soviet govt entreprises.
elaineo: so there's no difference between us registered corporations and public transportation, within the US
mircea_popescu: there is, because publkic transport is mostly state, whereas uber is federal.
elaineo: Uber is not winning in foreign countries -- it already retreated from China & russia
mircea_popescu: and because there's specific laws protecting public interest from a time before the bush power grabs
mircea_popescu: it's not winning anywhere. the whole thing is a more-successful-than-usual spam&fraud campaign by graham and friends.
mircea_popescu: but it's entirely like groupon say.
elaineo: okay, i concede that uber, in its current state, is an agency of the usg and thus worse than state-owned public transport
elaineo: uber, in an earlier state, was localized and legitimately a private corp
mircea_popescu: well, i'ma opt out of arguing waze without prejudice, because while it's basically an antieconomic game of masturbation, i'm too lazy to argue it.
elaineo: ok. it's part of Google's surveillance arm now anyway
mircea_popescu: worthless anyway, anyway.
elaineo: airbnb is shit. it incentivized short-term rental housing at the loss of long-term rentals
elaineo: and thus exacerbated the housing crisis.
mircea_popescu: many ways to see how shitty it is. seriously, i want to change my fuckable 3years leases neighbour for a horde of unwashed 20something 2-week leasors ?
mircea_popescu: holy shit no.
mircea_popescu: last fucking thing i want is to have to argue at idiots about music being too loud each week and actually be confronted with literall different idiots with identical idiocy in them
elaineo: yeah, that too
mircea_popescu: for all the gargle, there's ~nothing came out of marc a & paul g's up and coming rap label firms.
elaineo: as a resident of the SF bay area, i appreciate all the VC-subsidized free shit ☟︎
mircea_popescu: you're welcome, but do you happen to know what's the worst thing that can happen to a gifted woman early on in her life ?
elaineo: dunno. kids?
mircea_popescu: a bad source of revenue.
mircea_popescu: the original discussed "promising companies", but there's really no difference -- women are great company.
elaineo: sure, that makes sense
mod6: !~later tell jurov Sent SoBA email to btc-dev list, didn't bounce, maybe stuck in queue? Plz to take a look and see if it is just stuck. Thanks!
jhvh1: mod6: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: elaineo free shit is terrible, which is why wanna-be pimps hang around highschools trying to paw off "free shit" to the better looking 16yos.
elaineo: terrible in the sense of, "the first hit is free"?
mircea_popescu: quite.
mircea_popescu: also why aren't your footnotes clickable ? like eg in https://elaineou.com/2014/11/11/silicon-valley-is-the-new-fannie-mae/ i wanna click on that 1.
mircea_popescu: i won't even ask what do you think makes me gather the dork is having a great time from that pic.
elaineo: clickable-footnotes didn't occur to me until later on. even then, i'm kinda lazy.
mircea_popescu: ah. also, tooltipping footnotes are good.
elaineo: oh, right, i do like that about trilema
mircea_popescu: hey, i didn't realise azn immigrants are even allowed to be lazy
elaineo: we are, once we've left our parents' homes
mircea_popescu: ah. yea, makes sense.
elaineo: your slavegirls become a basketcase the moment you turn them loose
mircea_popescu: nah.
mircea_popescu: why, do 2nd gen azns ?
elaineo: yes, esp if they have parents who are doing well
mircea_popescu: hm.
elaineo: http://trilema.com/2015/on-parenting/
mircea_popescu: well, truth be told, there's no official "turning loose" as such. girls can leave if they wanna, some do now and again, but it's not that common.
mircea_popescu: elaineo that's an tlp original.
elaineo: aren't all the posts original?
mircea_popescu: no, some are rewrites of other people's work, like say the disgrace series, or you know, http://trilema.com/2015/stop-all-the-clocks-again/ or http://trilema.com/2013/a-story-of-a-boy-and-a-tree/
mircea_popescu: others are adnotations, like the recent rothbard series for instance.
mircea_popescu: this one's of that latter kind. the footnotes are mine, but the text is originally published by ballas over at thelastpsychiatrist.com ; linked there in the first line.
elaineo: oh.
elaineo: i have trouble following the, ehm, dialogue posts. eg http://trilema.com/2017/damele-dameleee/
mircea_popescu: not very good dialogue ?
elaineo: i have trouble relating to the context
mircea_popescu: one problem with trilema is that some articles (esp the lifestyle sort, for isntance) end up with a heavy load of private jokes. these aren't materia obscura a la http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-01#1719021 but actual "0 chances someone i'm not fucking gets this". ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-01 03:49 elaineo: was anyone expected to understand that reference aside from yourself?
elaineo: yeah, i assumed that was the case
mircea_popescu: anyway, the context is the earlier rewrite of luminous, the sf story. you know it ?
elaineo: i do not
mircea_popescu: ah. well, article is http://trilema.com/2017/resplenduminous/ and original kindly provided by asciilifeform is http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/wpf7J/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-26#1717656 << that's where we argue about it. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-26 16:07 asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/wpf7J/?raw=true << 313333337w4r3z
mircea_popescu: "I suppose I could pull up my Bloomberg terminal if I wanted to do some research before making an investment decision, but I feel like that’s not in the spirit of this app." << A-HA! caught you elaineo !
mircea_popescu: https://elaineou.com/2014/12/03/amazon-the-worlds-biggest-startup/ << in historical lulz. kinda hard to believe they came up with that shit.
jurov: mod6: fixed
mod6: jurov: thanks!
mod6: Thanks for posting the Treasury statement as well.
mod6: Ladies and Gentlemen of TMSR~: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-October/000274.html
diana_coman: !!key asciilifeform
diana_coman: uhm, something wrong with deedbot re keys?
diana_coman: trinque ^
trinque: I'll take a look
trinque: I had to migrate everything to a new box, possible there are things that still need a poke.
trinque: datacenter got in my way when I was in the midst of setting up infrastructure for:
trinque: !!balance
deedbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/uKev3/?raw=true
trinque: which incidentally is now out; I'll write it up shortly ☟︎
diana_coman: kk, no rush
asciilifeform: ohai diana_coman
trinque: site generator ran as the wrong user, barfed out empty keyfiles
diana_coman: hi asciilifeform
trinque: shall be remedied shortly.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: there's a copy at http://loper-os.org/pgp.asc
asciilifeform: diana_coman: and in your trb wot dir likewise.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, heh, thanks; ofc I have the keys otherwise - I was just getting trb on a new box and getting the keys for it via deedbot seemed most straightforward
diana_coman: anyways, it can wait until trinque fixes it, not a big thing
asciilifeform: and, for completeness, of course copy at... http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgfp/17215D118B7239507FAFED98B98228A001ABFFC7
asciilifeform: ( dulap -- believe or not -- is still up... ) ☟︎
diana_coman: cool
trinque: btw, anyone needing to run a deed today, just PM it to me. I'll be working on moving that to the new box this afternoon.
deedbot: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2017/09/27/lessons-from-hurricane-maria-and-puerto-rico/ << Bingo Blog - Lessons From Hurricane Maria And Puerto Rico
deedbot: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2017/09/27/trump-teaches-gop-senators-importance-of-selling-by-example-learns-limits-of-his-brand/ << Bingo Blog - Trump Teaches GOP Senators Importance Of Selling By Example, Learns Limits Of His Brand
deedbot: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2017/09/29/lesser-than-north-korea-joins-china-in-banning-ico-fad-ether-prices-drop-with-news/ << Bingo Blog - Lesser Than North Korea Joins China In Banning ICO Fad: Ether Prices Drop With News
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/damele-dameleee/ << Trilema - Damele, dameleee
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/now-you-understand-how-she-feels/ << Trilema - Now you understand how she feels.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/the-masters-textbook-why-do-girls-seek-you-out/ << Trilema - The Master's Textbook - Why do girls seek you out ?
trinque: ^ for some curious reason this thing's behaving strangely dropped on a bsd
deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2017/09/29/trying-so-hard-to-be-soviet-and-failing/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Trying so hard to be Soviet, and failing.
davout: qntra is down just because it lacks a home? ☟︎
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-01#1719139 << o hey! ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-01 16:23 trinque: which incidentally is now out; I'll write it up shortly
mod6: ya, very cool trinque
mircea_popescu: meanwhile at the titty ranch, http://68.media.tumblr.com/dc870678a61907d4f2b4f17250d29eb5/tumblr_nsfzwbHkVt1s2wsdzo1_400.gif
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-01#1719150 << lulziest shit of all time. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-01 16:34 asciilifeform: ( dulap -- believe or not -- is still up... )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-01#1719161 << yes. so would be phuctor, but in its strange wisdom teh empire decided to donate the hosting ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-10-01 17:52 davout: qntra is down just because it lacks a home?
asciilifeform: now to be fair i have nfi what the billing cycle was, even
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let's put it this way, i noticed http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-14#1714183 because i was going to pay them. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-14 03:42 mircea_popescu: in other lulz asciilifeform : phuctor server raid array failing, when'd you like the item restarted ?
asciilifeform: that was my guess
asciilifeform: there are some pretty demented folx in fiatoladom : at one time, some years ago, asciilifeform got year+ of phree service, for no reason, from a konsoomer 'last mile' isp
mircea_popescu: hey, i know a certain petro plant that got free gas for about 8 months.
asciilifeform: ukrs have been getting phreeeeee gas since 2014 or wat.
asciilifeform: so it isn't unheard of.
mircea_popescu: matter was still being litigated a decade afterwards.
asciilifeform: nao i'm curious - what was to litigate ? 'we sent you phreestuff for 8mo, now pay' 'buzz off' 'we sue' ?
mircea_popescu: or to put it in its canonical form, http://trilema.com/2013/our-emperor-deliver-us/#selection-39.331-39.449
mircea_popescu: "heavily counseled parties to mega-mergers do not breach merger agreements out of inadvertence, negligence, or mistake."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform something like that.
asciilifeform: nuts.
mircea_popescu: hey, "capitalism", as understood and implemented by nitwits who can't answer questions.
mircea_popescu: and in other "we used to be cool"s, http://s3-ak.buzzfed.com/static/enhanced/terminal01/2011/3/4/15/enhanced-buzz-14488-1299271596-9.jpg
diana_coman: asciilifeform, I'm currently looking at eulora rsa and I'm a bit foggy (I know and followed the bits posted in the logs but it's a long trail): what is available/ready to use atm?
asciilifeform: diana_coman: ffa arithmetic stack is theoretically available. however until i have barrett reduction going, it's a ~30 second modular exponentiation ( i.e. per rsa op )
asciilifeform: i.e. per 4096-padding -bit payload
asciilifeform: and a ~week -long keygen.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-09-20#1716110 << latest, iirc, thread ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-09-20 16:25 asciilifeform: in other noose, ACHTUNG, panzers, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/BAjEK/?raw=true << 27.2 sec (4096b modexp)
mircea_popescu: not actually usable for eulora as such, is it. ☟︎
asciilifeform: certainly not as-is, no
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: is a barrettian ( theoretically 1s/4096 ) rsatron, usable ?
asciilifeform: that's still quite slow vs. heathen rsa.
mircea_popescu: well, players are problematic. they might download the game and wait for a few hours to get a key going. then again they might not. nobody's waiting for a week tho, i don't expect.
asciilifeform: this is a fundamental headache, innit. 'wanna use actual rsa, or that thing you've been fraudulently introduced to as rsa, that leaks key, but runs fast'
mircea_popescu: in any case the problem is that i'll have to design some kind of extender, can't do pure rsa throughout because of the sheer load. there's multiple messages/sec
asciilifeform: fwiw it parallelizes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in any case the implementation will be isolated, so that one can swap his preferred item in.
asciilifeform does not know ~anything about how eulora goes together, cannot comment in detail
mircea_popescu: but basically, the only practical approach here is to actually import the gpg implementation, warts and all, but modularily, and see later maybe it can be swapped out.
asciilifeform: imho using a nonfixedtime rsatron in realtime, is worse than not using any crypto at all
asciilifeform: you will leak key.
mircea_popescu: since the client is intended to dissolve into competing community-driven implementations anyway, i don't expect to even be involved in weighing that maybe.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i guess we'll be having this problem demonstrated in practice. what can i do ?
asciilifeform: openssl already demonstrated quite satisfactorily.
asciilifeform: ( you can ~trivially extract most privkeys, if you spend a coupla months )
mircea_popescu: need was correctly identified year+ in advance ; the fact work is ongoing is no solace -- something must go in, and it will go in now.
mircea_popescu: the only item ready to go in is in fact koch's, and so he gets imported.
asciilifeform: if hiring fortune teller - hire cheapest. but ftr i dun get how this beats not having crypto.
mircea_popescu: at least it makes the community failure plain to the community.
mircea_popescu: i ~tried~ to have crypto.
mircea_popescu: what i got is what i got, and that's what the community in turn gets, and when it has a better idea -- implementation it is one comment out away.
asciilifeform continues the very slow and painful walk through most of undergrad number theory that leads, possibly, to usable nonleaking rsa on pc.
mircea_popescu: s.mg oif course assumes 0 liability to accounts lost through the process of leaking keys.
asciilifeform: ( incidentally fast ffalicious rsa on ~fpga~ is trivial. )
mircea_popescu: yeah but how't that work, i make a line speed fpga based encrypto/decryptor and use it as a router ?
asciilifeform: ( proper rsa is 'heavier' than most folx, incl. asciilifeform of a few yrs ago, appreciated. consider, ussr never was able to afford rsa at all. )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: for instance.
asciilifeform: or, more simply, a rs232 thing, a la fg
asciilifeform: two arses
mircea_popescu: this is at best a year away.
mircea_popescu: and i don't want to bake things that've not even been tested as software.
asciilifeform: it wouldn't be in any sense a 'build' of ffa.
asciilifeform: rather, a standard, e.g., verilog mips, with the registers extended to 8192b. ☟︎
mircea_popescu: i suppose that might work.
asciilifeform: but no, asciilifeform does not have one ready to run.
mircea_popescu: at least from a theoretical pov.
asciilifeform: how close this item is, even optimistically, depends on whether it could fit in ice40-8k.
asciilifeform: ( my current guess is that, sadly, it would not. would need a matrix of'em )
mircea_popescu: not likely fit no.
mircea_popescu: "matrix" ends up with what, intermatrix carry ?
asciilifeform: ideally not, you'd have bus, adder in 1 chip, shifter in other, etc
mircea_popescu: and bus made how ?
asciilifeform: but this is 'bridge too far' yet.
mircea_popescu: quite, yes.
asciilifeform: side q : for what does eulora even need crypto ? authentication - i can see, needs. but the movements of the players are theoretically public, neh?
diana_coman: asciilifeform, there is more info than just movements being passed between client and server
asciilifeform: ah hm, there's a chat, isnt there.
diana_coman: items in own inventory/storage are private for instance
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ideally chat will move to irc altogether.
diana_coman: neah, not the chat really, though merchant works atm via cli/chat so there would be that presumably
mircea_popescu: for the historically inclined : http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-06#1515745 ; http://btcbase.org/log/2016-12-27#1591437 are prolly the relevant anchors for this discussion. ☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-08-06 00:01 asciilifeform proposes to implement this subsystem for s.mg.
a111: Logged on 2016-12-27 22:14 mircea_popescu: course since the nsa consulting work for minigame is going to produce ada rsa, it might be an idea to have an ~ada~ tmsr crypto lib.
mircea_popescu: year+ turns out to be ~14 months.
asciilifeform: aha
diana_coman: fwiw I do see where asciilifeform is coming from and esp re leaking keys but at the same time can't stall eulora on this either, so some sort of thing will have to be cobbled together at best as it can be atm
mircea_popescu: indeed.
mircea_popescu: and yes, rsa properly examined did turn out to be a lot more work, and a lot more stacked shit papered over in the imperial usage, than originally thought.
asciilifeform: i won't put my signature on a leaking rsatron. but i also grasp 'go to war with the shovel you have', we're for instance still using rotten ol' gpg.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/qntra-sqntr-september-2017-statement/ << Trilema - Qntra (S.QNTR) September 2017 Statement
diana_coman: mircea_popescu, rsa like...everything else you mean,right?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the item is currently plaintext ; i would like to have at least the forms of correctness.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: so, if you must : http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1533
mircea_popescu: diana_coman just about.
asciilifeform: ^ asciilifeform's very painstaking 'trbfication' of koch
mircea_popescu: oh ?
asciilifeform: this is circa 2015
diana_coman: asciilifeform, oh, I'll certainly read that
asciilifeform: trims down gpg into a quite small (relatively to original, not, e.g. ffa) c lib
mircea_popescu: does keygen encrypt decrypt ?
asciilifeform: ditches the asmolade, various redundancies, automakeisms
mircea_popescu: or just bignum ?
asciilifeform: just bignum. but if you add 20ln from rsa.c (in gpg 1.4 from mircea_popescu) in, it yes encrypts/keygens/etc
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman looks like the place to drill yeah.
asciilifeform: !#s mpi
a111: 74 results for "mpi", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=mpi
asciilifeform: ^ various threads re how and why asciilifeform did this
asciilifeform: see also the linked article, for pedantic list of what was cut and why.
asciilifeform: note that this is a traditional, kochian, leaking bignumatron.
asciilifeform: ( runs on normalized integers, ALL ops take variable time, etc )
diana_coman appreciates very well that part with "astonishingly painful to properly saw off the kochball" after this past year of sawing off ps shit
asciilifeform: diana_coman: my mpi builds on all platforms, but on crapple requires a 1ln fix in the make
asciilifeform: i'll dig it out, if you end up using this.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform possibly needed by people trying to compile mac client. not otherwise.
diana_coman: will let you know; in any case, crapple is not of much concern to s.mg ; players can crapple if they want to
asciilifeform: ( initially i was building for the mips cpu of the original protocardano, and hence EVERYTHING that could be thrown out --- was )
asciilifeform: nice thing, is that it dun need libs at all
asciilifeform: makes a static, dependencyless 'mpi.a' .
asciilifeform: which you then link against.
diana_coman: sounds good in this respect
asciilifeform: you will notice that koch's rng atrocity ain't in there.
asciilifeform: ( nor anything else, it's just the arithm. routines. )
asciilifeform: diana_coman: make sure you take the version marked 'update:'
asciilifeform: ('second cut')
diana_coman: will do
asciilifeform bbl : meat
mircea_popescu: and for the freenode curious, http://logs.minigame.bz/2017-10-01.log.html#t21:46:47
lobbesbot: Logged on 2017-10-01 21:46:47: <kline> sure
shinohai thinks it would be kinda neat to have a eulora cloak
mircea_popescu: a wouldja like one ?
shinohai: Perhaps will come to pass when the app gets submitted.
mircea_popescu: can't see why not.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile at bubbling butt barn, http://68.media.tumblr.com/54bd9b6437ab46e8c3bcaf3860deda92/tumblr_nqmfwziN3J1r4faido1_1280.jpg