BingoBoingo: shinohai: My stator testbed is lucky it is too slow to have been anywhere close in time to that having been an issue, though that is still an enduring issue.
shinohai: I have a stator build working, just waiting on my pogo to get here first. Using the 0.5.3 RELEASE on my shell
BingoBoingo: My stator is just on an awfully underpowered AMD64 machine
mod6: here's something I missed: log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187292
mod6: i'll have to see when i get there i guess.
mats: it doesn't look like bitcoin is ready for prime time
shinohai: Good find mod6, I hadn't got that far back yet
BingoBoingo: <mod6> here's something I missed: log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-07-2015#1187292 << May have to increase locks limit (why it must be there idk) for reorg robustness
mod6: for those who don't remember, we used to get stuck at block 252`450 before with only 10000 locks set
shinohai: Must have been before I discovered La Serenissima
mod6: it was last december.
BingoBoingo: Yeah, it was necessary to keep up with 0.8 normal. May need a still bigger boost for reorgs though.
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 268 @ 0.00406002 = 1.0881 BTC [-] {4}
phf: BingoBoingo: have you tried making static build on openbsd? i seem to recall you were running a bunch of openbsd boxes
mod6: phf: i built on 5.6 but I can't seem to get mine to be be statically built :(
BingoBoingo: phf: No, not yet. On OpenBSD I'm running an 0.7.2 derivative with LibreSSL 2.0 just to see how it behaves.
phf: mod6: is that with the patch i posted to ml?
mod6: it was from a patch, but not from the email you just sent in...
phf: BingoBoingo: that's a good idea, i decided to punt on it, because i don't fully understand the reasoning behind the whole 1.0.1g freeze
BingoBoingo: <mod6> phf: i built on 5.6 but I can't seem to get mine to be be statically built :( << First thing to understand about OpenBSD is that it is a weird unix. Not as weird as Linux, but differently weird.
phf: mod6: nudge nudge wink wink
BingoBoingo: phf: It sync'd and so far it hasn't forked outside of the ways other Bitcoins have
mod6: ok, so I should just use your patches just posted then
phf: mod6: yes, though they are conceptually similar to the one from dpaste
mod6: read your readme... so yeah, months and months ago I was able to build a dynamic bitcoind on openbsd, but that was the exact issue after statically linked: seg fault.
mod6: lemme try this out :]
trinque: why do all the chimos have a certain look about them?
trinque: there's a sort of pudgy, sunken-eyed, pasty-white I invariably associate with "hide yo kids"
BingoBoingo: But still, that isn't the complete type. It's the entire shape of the face: very, very Anglo
williamdunne: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel was checking my rates, out of interest what is my association with gamingfurry.tumblr.com?
☟︎ mod6 has to ramp up on espanol for c4
williamdunne: I would also like to learn Spanish, on my to do list
williamdunne currently has a neck that looks like Cheetah fur, lovely patterned bruising
mod6: i used to be fairly fluent 10 years ago, now. not so much lol.
williamdunne: I had compulsory German and French lessons for 4 years in state education. Went about as well as expected. My entire vocabulary in both languages is "Bonjour", "Guten Tag", "Ich habe ein gross hose schlange", and "Ich bin zwolf jahre alt", along with a few words of no use on their own
mod6: haha, sounds familiar.
trinque: williamdunne: ich arbeit im krankenhaus
trinque: there, that about does it for my german
trinque: took spanish in high school; I can understand more than I can say
williamdunne: I couldn't even update "Ich bin zwolf jahre alt" to make sense in my current state without the assistance from google translate.
williamdunne: In fairness, even in RO I could understand half the crap because its still latin
williamdunne notably did qualify for a non-state school scholarship at a language school, after passing the aptitude tests. Further highlighting the failure of state education
trinque: "puedo comprender mas que puedo hablar" ??
shinohai: I'm ok with Spanish. Could probably carry on a convo though it has been a while/
trinque: german I've yet to get past the myriad articles
trinque: near as I can tell, there is no logic to them
shinohai: I'm always impressed with how well Germans speak English
trinque: you just grow up knowing that "*der* Tisch"
trinque: shinohai: heh maybe it's german easy-mode
shinohai: Nearly every one I have met speaks far better English than half the Americans I know.
trinque: having merely dabbled in german, there seems to be a preciseness or specificity to it
trinque: all the articles for example
trinque: "this one out of the set" vs "this one" vs "that" ... so on
shinohai passes a glass of his Absinthe to asciilifeform
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 18:51:43; ascii_field: let's imagine, briefly, that i ~do~ find.
phf: that would be second famous margin note, after fermat's
mod6: phf: do you patches depend on anything besides stator?
phf: mod6: that's the last part of readme, you want to build with gmake instead of make (pkg_add gmake)
phf: i think that's the errors from environment variables not being set
mod6: i screwed up i don't have realpath installed.
trinque: mod6: which openbsd package provides realpath?
mod6: no idea. i just swapped that stuff out for the fullpath, but gernika reminded me that one can usese readlink -f
mircea_popescu: i dunno there's a sadder indictment of the decaying west.
menahem: omg what is that photo ? insert and expand ?
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 21:00:28; pete_dushenski: not cheap !
menahem: ahh ok, used in the mouth!
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 21:02:02; trinque: I have no idea what they think the 'stress test' is meant to demonstrate
mircea_popescu: which is why this place (ie, bitcoin) is so fucking beautiful.
mircea_popescu: also why it's so fucking disconcerting to the welfare mass.
mircea_popescu: they truely believe it is a natural truth that their existence is all that's needed.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35907 @ 0.000557 = 20.0002 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76993 @ 0.00056793 = 43.7266 BTC [+] {4}
mats: thats the first positive outcome to stalking i've heard of
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 21:05:13; ascii_field: i still can't fathom why this wasn't sop from day 1.
mats: lose a shitload of weight, gain eight digits in your bank
mircea_popescu: mats you know all the girls i knew for the first i dunno, decade of my life i got through stalking ?
mats: hiding in the bushes, tracking movements, masturbating to her shadowy figure in the shower?
mircea_popescu: well, the most famous and i guess exemplare case is, mp stops car, tells shadow : follow that girl. guy gets an address, mp gets a phone number, talks to puzzled woman. explains that he had her stalked, would she like to have a cup of coffee
decimation: asciilifeform: I'm not sure what you are thinking, but my idea is to use the 10 minute block time as a noisy oscillator
mircea_popescu: she says sure, she's going for a cup of coffee. i ask where, she says "tell your guy to find out"
mircea_popescu: i would like to assure the concerned public that no flower bouquets were involved in any of this at any point.
williamdunne: Oh good, flowers really would have made the whole situation rather strange
decimation: pogo can keep time by comparing its clock to the block discovery interval, averaging over a long period
gribble: Current Blocks: 364334 | Current Difficulty: 4.940201493122746E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 364895 | Next Difficulty In: 561 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 4 days, 1 hour, 33 minutes, and 54 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
decimation: it would take a few difficulty inervals
mircea_popescu: it would appear we are no less than a year into the future.
decimation: what is the rate at which new blocks are found?
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 21:14:04; jurov: mircea_popescu: is the ftp server in the vicinity of your bitcoin node? it went full speed for minutes, then it suddenly throttled to 6kbps
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 21:30:21; ascii_field: likewise, the 'bubbles' ought to be sized proportional to their connectivity degree.
mircea_popescu: jurov that's a pretty weird graph considering the gaps aren't even same size o.O
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: 530 is pretty ideal, no? Sign of difficulty growth
decimation: you could fit a curve instead of line over a given interval
mircea_popescu: well ideal in what sense ? it's very unideal for his idea of timekeeping, because it proves (what we already knew) : time is meaningless and political time conventional, and all sorts of nutty fashions can endure a long time. ie, 350k blocks in this case.
assbot: Logged on 07-07-2015 19:54:23; decimation: maybe I should start watching venus too
mircea_popescu: decimation the problem of fitting real time to blocks is in fact going straight to the root of the world. solve it, get nobel.
☟︎ williamdunne: mircea_popescu: I guess. At the very least the cause of it is good though
mircea_popescu: or whatever actual respectable prize the nobel used to be
williamdunne: I did a judging thing at teh loebner prize before. Was pretty lulzy
funkenstein_: i've heard tell of a distributed clock that might meet your needs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69900 @ 0.00057271 = 40.0324 BTC [+] {4}
funkenstein_: it's a prototype, the code might need some cleaning up
decimation: funkenstein_: were you the one studying clock intervals in bitcoin
funkenstein_: the quantity the a miner needs to report is the time since the last difficulty change
funkenstein_: yes, enjoyed it.. sorry you are probably sick of this time talk already
mircea_popescu: yes, magical offset in that you don't know who's lying.
mircea_popescu: does not. looky here. block is 100, timestamp is 100, allowable max drift is 100.
mircea_popescu: block 101 arrives, at timestamp 150, advertising timestamp 101.
mircea_popescu: block 102 arrives, at timestamp 200, advertising timestamp 250.
funkenstein_: we can't know what procedure miners are using to set their own clocks
funkenstein_: it's basically a jury duty scenario, you found a block, do your best to tell us what time it is
funkenstein_: well I think asciilifeform is formulating a more specific attack so that should be interesting
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> so much as opening pogo and touching inside multiplies the cost of the operation. << and yet mircea_popescu had this done
mircea_popescu: now if i ask dpb something about it, he can answer sensibly.
ben_vulpes: now, as you say, interested parties could find a rate for diddled pogos.
ben_vulpes: and on top of that, his error rate cracking them open is probably zero. small sample size, but...
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 00:56:00; williamdunne: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel was checking my rates, out of interest what is my association with gamingfurry.tumblr.com?
williamdunne: Furry definitely isn't something I'd label myself with
danielpbarron: it's kinda tricky getting them open. I had to scuff up a credit card and yeah some of the inner clips got cracked
williamdunne: I might be into some things, but anthropomorphic animals aren't one of those things
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 02:03:34; mircea_popescu: decimation the problem of fitting real time to blocks is in fact going straight to the root of the world. solve it, get nobel.
assbot: Tinder date woman finds novel way to hit back at man who told her she was too fat to fancy - Mirror Online ... (
http://bit.ly/1CZxPmc )
mod6: yes, this is fantastic really.
williamdunne: BingoBoingo: could he have been much nicer about it?
BingoBoingo: williamdunne: Not at all, bitch needs to stop being a Ham.
williamdunne: BingoBoingo: Tinder causes this issue, experienced it in RO
williamdunne: Aye, which was remarkable really. Didn't see any others. She was very nice and I still talk to her, but headshots and angles are good at lying
funkenstein_: seemingly a PID controller would be best for difficulty adjustment, however simplicity is a stronger argument
BingoBoingo: * asciilifeform changes gloves, gas mask filter << Shouldn't you step away from the cesium dust first?
BingoBoingo: williamdunne: Here the pic/reality discrepancy is so bad in a lot of cases it is like a fat person killed a normal with similar hair and started living their life.
williamdunne: BingoBoingo: Yeah, she was definitely the same person. Only the body was not what the angles would have you believe
williamdunne: Don't believe she was wearing someone else's face either
williamdunne: funkenstein_: In his defence, the litecoin solution actually seemed like a pretty good way to handle it
BingoBoingo: I mean seriously here, the faces look different. Literally have to be using other people's pictures.
williamdunne: BingoBoingo: I don't understand how they don't think "oh, maybe they'll be confused when they see me in person?"
BingoBoingo: williamdunne: hollywood gave them broken expectations. The moral they complain about is "look good get laid" when they take the worse insane moral of "the protagonist is witty and spechial"
williamdunne: BingoBoingo: Are you suggesting that our tumblrina protagonist isn't witty, or special like the most specialist of snowflakes
williamdunne: Drinking law in the UK is even more lax than I had realized
BingoBoingo: No, example. Drinking at the bar with some friends. One fire up "Tinder" girl with nice pictures takes a cab across the mississippi river and walk into the bar. Diameter more than half her height. Recognizes friend, friend has no idea who she is.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Note that in North America gay rights became popular as femal obesity rates spiked
decimation: lol blockchain.info is still posting 1-size blocks
mats: such social commentary
decimation: it would be interesting to know how blockchain.info gets its data
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: she will get laid that day. whereas 90%+ of normal-looking blokes - won't. << She apparently even managed to fuck this up. Reportedly gave friend sad handjob and blackmailed for attention the next day with promise of putting out eventually. Was driven to bar in the ghetto and left (could not run to vehicle in time to stop it)
williamdunne for a while no longer has to worry about getting laid
williamdunne: decimation: carrier pigeon, although it's suffering with pattern baldness
decimation: I hope those 'bitcoin core' dumbfucks are happy with the progress they are making
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: i suspect that everybody who came from the factory with that vernier not glued down, is turning it, yes << 31337 social engineering
williamdunne: It really is remarkable how blockchain.info didn't go down the goxhole, they just consistently break
decimation: interesting 364343 was relayed by 65.182.235.207
BingoBoingo: williamdunne: When piuk rolled out blockchain.info it was the best block explorer. Once he stopped doing everything it swiftly went to shit and got Andreas'd
decimation: which is purported to be in canby, oregon
williamdunne: BingoBoingo: I can't tolerate any of them currently. Blockchain.info is constantly broken, and all the others have these horrible gaudy interfaces.
BingoBoingo: williamdunne: And this is what temps me to fuck with running an electrum server. To run a private block explorer accountable only to me when it barfs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.0005515 = 4.9635 BTC [-]
williamdunne: It seems to be a default option, not a personal accusation
williamdunne: asciilifeform: Scoopbot doesn't deal with phuctor, that's trinquebot
williamdunne: asciilifeform: I'd presume a marketplace on i2p
decimation: asciilifeform: it strikes me that your choice of location is to some degree a 'prisoner's dilemma'.
decimation: everyone in your meatwot could probably get a better deal if they lived somewhere cheaper
decimation: but 'cooperation' in moving together is much more expensive than 'defection' to the local area
trinque: to be fair, west virginia is a shithole
decimation: trinque: sure, but it wouldn't be if people moved there
decimation: why do they all defect to the big city every day
trinque: most notable thing I recall about WV is that giant teapot
decimation: asciilifeform: partially because more dollars are 'created' to bid up assets
decimation: I suspect that problem wouldn't be as pronounced with a hard-banking hard currency
decimation: sure, folks would bid up assets, but the vast majority of bids in the wash dc area are 'zombies'
trinque: "Mr Boria has been charged with mischief causing danger to life and could face further charges." << wait... his?
decimation: the question is: how much of the money that is 'freshly printed' by the fed or a bank part of the wash dc bid?
williamdunne: trinque: Yes, his. Unless they're suggesting his stray garden chair could mysteriously strike someone down
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2014 13:57:29; asciilifeform: g: 'show me the real budget.' a: 'you're asking too much. that's off limits to you.'
decimation: you could multiply direct gov spending by the 'print factor'
decimation: but that would only capture a portion - it would exclude the portion magicked into existance by banks
decimation: I guess it would be a useful as the map that nyt ran which indicated the density of racists over usa
decimation: asciilifeform: note that the police are rarely punished for shooting innocents
mats: 'chink' doesn't correlate to california at all
mats: or any place with large asian populations that i'm aware of
decimation: mats: note that the 'normalize by the number of tweets'
decimation: thus effectively discounting the liberal population centers
decimation: so the self-serving bastards can come to the conclusion that those rednecks out in the sticks are the real racists
mats: so what i need an inverse contrast map
mats: and avoid everything else
mats: thats a lot of america
mats: but i knew that already
funkenstein_: metastudies of tweets <-- totally useless waste of time
decimation: guy found tweets by black people in baltimore back during fourth of july 2011, when there was violence
mats: i'm enjoying the tweets on that link, decimation
mats: ebonics has so much... variety
funkenstein_: i read some tweets once, it was when dorian was being collected
decimation: mats: amusingly 'unamusement park' is totally blacklisted from all search engines
Vexual: i think alf set his clock
funkenstein_: reminds me of Eddie Murphy's grandmother: "What time is it?"
funkenstein_: it might be an interesting simulation to see what would happen if not only all nodes but all miners had no real clock
Vexual: can you describe celestial navigation to decimation?
funkenstein_: for longitude, i believe there is a book by sobel or something
Vexual: what if your tables are from 1997?
funkenstein_: nothing under magnitude 10, makes it difficult on my canoe
Vexual: how far do you paddle?
assbot: Long Term Almanac 2000-2050: For the Sun and Selected Stars With Concise Sight Reduction Tables, 2nd Edition: Geoffrey Kolbe: 9780914025108: Amazon.com: Books ... (
http://bit.ly/1HMFRnX )
Vexual: decimation: sight redution tables for nother lats are avail from .mil in pdf
Vexual: whats ur approx lat decimation?
Vexual: fuck thats a long way north
decimation: usg charges for their nautical almanacs
Vexual: same infos free on .mil
Vexual: maybe, i dunno whats in thr almanac
decimation: it's relatively warm because of the gulf stream
Vexual: 50s at aussie long is firmly in a world of shit
decimation: ottawa, canada is roughly 45 n for instance
Vexual: theres no land to slow the wind at 50s
decimation: that's probably why nobody lives on macquarie island
Vexual: it might be national park
Vexual: on eny given day you might meet a horny marine biologist
decimation: yeah apparently they killed all the mammals
mats: i set up a raid0 with two SSDs
mats: and windoze updates on this box still takes hours wtf
☟︎ ben_vulpes: do y'all eventually get to why averaging out umpteen 2016 blocks won't work in place of timekeeping?
decimation: about 80% of it: use ntp! no time itself is owned by usg and so are all servers and isps!
ben_vulpes: the thing is miserably bad anyways, why would anyone want to use it?
ben_vulpes: anyways, how do you plan to handle this on pogos?
ben_vulpes: you know i'm not even convinced a node *should* be stood up without human intervention.
decimation: ben_vulpes: it seemed that there was some some concensus around the idea of randomly selecting a small set of ntp servers out of a large pre-defined set
decimation: this doesn't solve the "pogo clock is shit" problem
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68400 @ 0.00055147 = 37.7205 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: which means continous correction is nearly required
decimation: asciilifeform: as to ass-to-mouth system, it depends on your error model for thblock timestamps
decimation: imagine each miner has his own cesium clock
decimation: asciilifeform: it's really hard to imagine when < 100 ns accuracy is nearly freely and reliably avaialable
decimation: ntp has provisions against replay and deplay attacks
decimation: plus the behaviour of one node over time
decimation:
http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/onwire.html The symmetric modes operate using a sequence of rounds, each consisting of a transmit packet followed by a receive packet, but either of both of these packets could be lost. A round is correct if both packets are correctly received. In order to verify correctness of the protocol, it is necessary to prove a liveness assertion; that is, the protocol always yields a correct round even if after
mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> you know i'm not even convinced a node *should* be stood up without human intervention. << this may be true.
mircea_popescu: and the followin line does not follow. some intelligent people are poor, or more to wit : some poor people are (allegedly) intelligent. i doub this is true. but if it were, pogo is their way out.
mircea_popescu: and if they fail to find it, or to take it, you have no case.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> point of pogo is to allow well-meaning but illiterate or even stupid people to run therealbitcoin. << no. well meaning stupid is the LAST thing we want. i'd rather import us academia.
mircea_popescu: what you want is the alleged minialfs who exist. people who supposedly could use the head, but somehow magically "not enough fuel"
mircea_popescu: but notice that this does not run as far as the previous
decimation: I view the firewall/nat problem as much bigger
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: you need a million tyler durdens.
mircea_popescu: " running powerful hacking software called Metasploit"
mircea_popescu: i'd like land mines like that. so would every army out there.
decimation: apparently some mobster in amsterdam recruited a couple of nerds to exploit shipping companies
mircea_popescu: no, the problem with landmines atm is that they can't be safely defused
decimation: yeah plenty of folks die trying to learn how to throw gernades
decimation: also 'we need soldiers who can do that'
ben_vulpes: <ascii_field> want a fucking WALL POSTER << codebase isn't that bad, should be doable by hand :P
ben_vulpes: <trinque> haha holy shit, dxr's "install" method is vagrant << see also gitlab
decimation: ultimately there's no substitute for good hardware
decimation: and yet, even usg manages to keep orbital rb clocks ticking
ben_vulpes: <BingoBoingo> phf: No, not yet. On OpenBSD I'm running an 0.7.2 derivative with LibreSSL 2.0 just to see how it behaves. << how's the libressl build going?
decimation: if your point is that they are centrally disciplined that's probably true
ben_vulpes: * williamdunne currently has a neck that looks like Cheetah fur, lovely patterned bruising << furries, asphyxiation...
☟︎☟︎ decimation: at any rate, your objection to coordinating clocks seems to boil down to "can't carry messages of a known latency over spacetime"
decimation: so your objection boils down to 'enemy controls means of communication'
decimation: but is applicable to the entire bitcoin enterprise equally
decimation: this only emphasizes the point that there needs to be alternate communication media available
decimation: ionosphere will relay for free, cannot be pwned by usg
☟︎ decimation: you just said, rsa can solve that problem
decimation: if 99% of miners use usg time, what's the use of wot-time?
decimation: the idea of a crypto-radio-clock intrigues me
decimation: I have a few sketches for such a thing, but I can't get around the problem of fixed keys that need to be distributed to listeners
decimation: that auto-scaling-difficulty thing seems crazy though
decimation: sounds like it would involve incrementing the protocol version
ben_vulpes: i think mircea_popescu designed something like that for eulora
ben_vulpes: players vs. the game. conversation in ars.
ben_vulpes: balancing of rewards for being mage/barbarian/etc over time
decimation: it's lightning sprites and earthquakes
decimation: actually I suspect the solar wind buffeting the magnetosphere is a factor
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84300 @ 0.00054193 = 45.6847 BTC [-] {4}
trinque: ben_vulpes: so pipelinedb turned out to be YC shitware
trinque: all they did can be done with triggers, background workers and materialized views
trinque: and they had the nerve to *RENAME POSTGRESQL TO SOMETHING ELSE*
trinque: meanwhile they did not do the one thing that might've been interesting (that I can see), which would've been to fire pg_notify events when the results of a given view change
punkman: "The eurozone has given Greece until Thursday to present new proposals to secure a deal with creditors, and has called a full EU summit for Sunday."
mircea_popescu: after this unwinds 1929 will look like glbse by comparison.
assbot: Tetris blocks traumatic flashbacks even after the memory is fixed - health - 06 July 2015 - New Scientist ... (
http://bit.ly/1RjR4mf )
punkman: lots of greek banks in the balkans, I wonder what's gonna happen with those
mircea_popescu: imagine what will happen if month later no china crash is seen? but USA has advantage that it will never feel shame. one lie does not come true, there is another one. and in the end they can still say china has hacked usa without any evidences. Repeating lies 1000 times, it becomes truth. that is how USA invaded Iraq.
mircea_popescu: anyway, hopefully they manage to prop it, because if they do not and people start unwinding us holdings on the grounds of the massive yuan profits to be thus made, that's that.
ag3nt_zer0: "But getting the game into a person's hands immediately after they have been raped, for example, won't always be practical, so the team tested whether it could still work a day later – after the memory had been consolidated and slept on." haha
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 04:25:37; mats: and windoze updates on this box still takes hours wtf
cazalla: good logs, good meal, no good wine to go with it but 2/3 ain't bad eh
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45200 @ 0.00055343 = 25.015 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 05:16:27; ben_vulpes: * williamdunne currently has a neck that looks like Cheetah fur, lovely patterned bruising << furries, asphyxiation...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40748 @ 0.00055343 = 22.5512 BTC [+]
funkenstein_: <asciilifeform> i'm more partial to cryptocurrency that doesn't rely on clocks. <-- there was one called liquidcoin
☟︎ funkenstein_: the problem of what kind of clock foot soldier P needs depends on exact specification of role foot soldier P needs to play
funkenstein_: a node with no clock could still be a useful one, depending on what you had in mind
☟︎ gribble: #22382 Wed Jul 8 08:30:46 2015 punkman SELL 1.0 night @ 1.3 btc (Seaside villa in Creta, Greece. 4bdr, sleeps 8, a/c, wifi, etc. 3min walk to beach. discounts on certain dates.
http://i.imgur.com/DqYiA5O.jpg) punkman: kakobrekla: no, but I've been there a few times
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8202 @ 0.00055343 = 4.5392 BTC [+]
bagels7: Hi, does anyone happen to know the title of that trilema article that explains how women are immature and basically blame men for their shortcomings
assbot: You have not rated bagels7.
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 12:18:05; funkenstein_: <asciilifeform> i'm more partial to cryptocurrency that doesn't rely on clocks. <-- there was one called liquidcoin
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 12:22:35; funkenstein_: a node with no clock could still be a useful one, depending on what you had in mind
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: when you can use a planet-sized resonator. << each planet would have a different frequency
funkenstein_: masked gunman to clerk: "I'm here to keep you on financial life support"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76353 @ 0.00057177 = 43.6564 BTC [+] {3}
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 273.09, Best ask: 273.16, Bid-ask spread: 0.07000, Last trade: 273.08, 24 hour volume: 28460.65127183, 24 hour low: 263.0, 24 hour high: 274.11, 24 hour vwap: None
decimation: that forth cpu seems similar to that 'picolisp' cpu
danielpbarron: apparently transactions larger than some magic number cannot even get relayed by nodes, and only a miner can forcibly include it in a block
jurov: mircea hit that with bitbet payouts, there's vitriolic trilema piece somewhere
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: i was more imagining each planet having it's own blockchain, but I guess that's
jurov: danielpbarron: you tried to feed it to 0.5.3.1 ?
mod6: thestringpuller: if they did, it'd be an altcoin aka; marscoin, uranuscoin etc
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 05:09:39; asciilifeform: early cannoneers accepted double-digit chances of being blown up by own barrel
danielpbarron: jurov> danielpbarron: you tried to feed it to 0.5.3.1 << is it possible? when I type 'bitcoind help' I do not see the "send raw signed transaction" command
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 05:19:44; asciilifeform: it is not.
jurov: maybe i'm mistaken, i thought it was alwas possible to submit tx
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 05:21:24; decimation: ionosphere will relay for free, cannot be pwned by usg
mircea_popescu: nah jurov i recall people using their own tools for that throughout
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 05:24:07; asciilifeform: after the current set gets ddt sprayed on them
mircea_popescu: they are the exact equivalent of materiel. the humvees the usg lost to isis work for isis just as well.
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 05:26:05; asciilifeform: i'm more partial to cryptocurrency that doesn't rely on clocks.
danielpbarron: > bitcoind: Argument list too long << my 0.7.2 node didn't like it
mircea_popescu: what you're saying is basically "i'm more interested in food that doesn't rely on being digested"
danielpbarron: i don't think it's even checking the validity of the tx, and is instead rejecting the hex string as being too long; I can get my 0.5.3 node to give the same error and it doesn't recognize the method
mircea_popescu: lol 0.7 implemented tx manipulation that doesn't work on 1mb sized txn ?
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 09:00:25; cazalla: good logs, good meal, no good wine to go with it but 2/3 ain't bad eh
jurov: danielpbarron i tried electrum, it parsed tx properly
jurov: but broadcast error: {u'message': u'64: tx-size', u'code': -26}
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 05:16:27; ben_vulpes: * williamdunne currently has a neck that looks like Cheetah fur, lovely patterned bruising << furries, asphyxiation...
gabriel_laddel: what are cat cables and how do I network computers together without a web browser.
williamdunne: You've got to connect the CAT 3 BSD cable into your Universal Parallel Networking port and install the latest ApacheBSD drivers, and then BGP route your HardDrive into the global local network, repeating these steps for each computer on the network. And once this is complete you plug cables into each of your available body holes and pray for IP issuance, prior to jamming each cable into your nearest USB hub
jurov: that reads like eulora recipes
gabriel_laddel: oh, sorry, I should have made it clear I was referring to the child pornography thing
gernika: mod6 I've attempted syncing on OpenBSD again and am now past block 168000 and have reached 185126. It's going very very slowly though.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27100 @ 0.00057258 = 15.5169 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: let me tell you of the salt mines of my homeworld...
mod6: <+gernika> mod6 I've attempted syncing on OpenBSD again and am now past block 168000 and have reached 185126. It's going very very slowly though. << good to hear though
☟︎ ben_vulpes: there is a SaaS that handles users for people who for whatever reason don't want to stand up their own services and servers.
ben_vulpes: developers working with this service can alter its behavior by providing it 'node' code that it executes on login/registration events
ben_vulpes: their sandbox provides precisely one map of dummy data.
ben_vulpes: the suggested way to cram code into their orifices is by pasting it into text fields.
ben_vulpes: one can configure post-commit hooks in git, but their logic importer a) only works with github and b) only works with public repositories.
ben_vulpes: now on one hand that this thing doesn't give programmers any handles to alter test data is fine, in that it forces one to either work in a js repl or you know /actually write tests/
ben_vulpes: anyways i don't believe you nobody gets paid to write common lisp lalala i can't hear you
ben_vulpes: you say that as though there were an option.
jurov: i daresay loper machine depends on solved halting problem
☟︎ jurov: it's supposed to predict resources exhaustion at any time so that operator can be alerted
gabriel_laddel: jurov: No it isn't. It just eats all required resources and (maybe) returns.
gabriel_laddel: What happens if I (loop while t do ...) on a von n. arch? it just runs forever. Same thing.
gabriel_laddel: Now, I think the "language constructs" map directly to routing logic, so the AST "unrolls" onto the hardware
williamdunne: One of the "lizardsquad" guys just got charged with 50,700 offences
jurov: if i learned anything from my haskell stint, it's how computer is utterly bad to manage its memory and other resources
jurov: even if you specify in most precise detail how to do stuff without side effects, you still have to hold its hand in order to not exhaust the memory
mircea_popescu: <jurov> it's supposed to predict resources exhaustion at any time so that operator can be alerted << in principle machine does not have to proceed before it wants to.
mircea_popescu: i am sure gabriel_laddel proposed "don't do that" won' cut it with alf - but i am also sure a "sometimes warn before" behaviour would be acceptable.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 7 @ 0.157 = 1.099 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 15:44:41; mircea_popescu: they're lucky anyone at all wants to work for them as it is.
mircea_popescu: dude get out, they're the website of 2015. every two bit 20something schmuck with two friends and a girlfriend has started one, last year.
ascii_field: places for folks to write malware and get serious clean money for it
mircea_popescu: there is at least one million of them. i have stopped even trying to count past 100k last year.
ascii_field: not 'work 12 hours to make min wage while you sleep'
ascii_field: (i assume the truth lies somewhere in those 500 GB...)
mircea_popescu: the boys made slightly more than they'd have made working for gawker, on the grounds that they're asocial weirdos.
ascii_field: didn't see any obvious ones in the 'git' login config
mircea_popescu: someone did the accounting and the sucking sudanese cock you know.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 9 @ 0.157 = 1.413 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 16:32:33; ben_vulpes: ¿y tu, comrade?
mircea_popescu: anyway, this is what powers my disinterest in the matter. i saw in logs this pov is divergent with teh republic, so i'll entertain the alternative viewpoint, but just for the sake of records.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field re the "yet another bedroom derpitude" thread just before.
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 16:45:07; jurov: i daresay loper machine depends on solved halting problem
mod6: trades haulted, no suprise there.
williamdunne: I wonder if any sysadmins are gonna jump out of some windows
mod6: next, like .cn, selling banned
ascii_field: i fully expected this after hearing the cn thing
decimation: they totally know it's not a 'cyber attack'
ascii_field: raise yer hand if you thought ft meade would leave nyse switched on
decimation: ft meade does what wall st wants, not vice versa
davout: so i'm trying to build the stator, getting "headers.h:21:27: fatal error: openssl/ecdsa.h: No such file or directory"
williamdunne: Chinese dumping US stocks now, I'm presuming. Need to pump some filthy fiat into their own markets
ascii_field: davout: did you have the tarballs in place ?
davout: i have openssl-1.0.1g.tar.gz in distfiles
davout: (using mod6's build script)
mod6: you need to use "stator.sh" that comes with the stator tarball
decimation: you probably have the 'realpath' issue
davout: ok, i'll do this, thank yall!
mircea_popescu: tech support at its best is keeping a list of who's fucktarded.
mod6: yeah, that auto.sh has problems there.
ascii_field: davout: for now, skip the auto.sh and use my scripts
ascii_field: and pretty much guaranteed to work on gentoo
decimation: just be sure to check the distfile hashes
davout: where's the stator tarball?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: brilliant. ought to be installed in every american gym
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: For some reason she looks like a giant
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 17:07:03; mircea_popescu: hackteam
mircea_popescu: generally the difference between advertising set and porn set is that porn set cameras all set crotch height
mod6: grab those, verify, unpack; beware that you need to drop openssl/bdb/boost in distfiles by hand. and ascii_field's script doesn't want boost.tar.gz, wants boost.tar.bz
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: no, it isn't 'greatest leak ever' - but certainly the most complete gutting of a usg contractor in history
mircea_popescu: you will notice it is not actually a usg contractor. it's a sudanese contractor.
williamdunne: These "decentralize all the things" fuckwads are really pissing me off re: NYSE
mircea_popescu: the difference between this and an "etsy shop" is color scheme.
mircea_popescu: i dunno, seems more like it was a major alleged client.
ascii_field: picture what would happen if ~i~ tried to open a 'hackteam'
mircea_popescu: dunno how much you know about how teenaged girls suck cock these days
mircea_popescu: but the way it goes, they pretend to be selling to X so Y may buy
mircea_popescu: i bet half of your coworkers are "secretly" part of one.
mircea_popescu: i kid you not. but i do not expect anyone to take this on faith.
ascii_field: fact is, monetizing virii requires a крыша
ascii_field: unlike penguin and gurlz, i know this from direct observation
mircea_popescu: are you even from this planet at ALL ? do you know how much can be passed off as work before even as much as touching a tool ?
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: Some are pretty enthusiastic about it
williamdunne: People must care because SJWs signed a petition, wao
mircea_popescu: these particular kids would have made more scamming in eve
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: from what i can tell, the 'hackteam' folks were paid hundreds of thousands of euros to do things that i consider a weekend's work
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2015 07:04:28; asciilifeform: dude really, it is very easy to fly. just bend your arms into an effective lift surface, right angle of attack, and fart really hard.
ascii_field utterly fails to grasp what mircea_popescu is speaking of
mircea_popescu: say "Very gifted reverse engineer, looking for outgoing, persuasive, experienced slut to start hackteam together. You'll have to suck bureaucrat cock to get us contracts, I'll fill them, we split the loot."
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: guess where i'm posting from
ascii_field: it doesn't work unless you have access to the right cock
assbot: Logged on 25-06-2015 03:01:25; asciilifeform: i built it.
ascii_field: thing i'm beginning to suspect is that nobody gives half a shit about reversing, or 'security', or any of it
williamdunne: It's okay guyz, NYSE is turning itself off and on again
jurov: nyse mining bitcoins?
gabriel_laddel: ^ some people reverse engineered an fpga's bitstream format
ascii_field: 'We have enough bits mapped that we can create a functional verilog model for almost all bitstreams generated by Lattice iCEcube2 for the iCE40 HX1K-TQ144, as long as no block memories or PLLs are used. ' << wake me up when that last part changes. and when i can get this chip from ten different chinese foundries.
ascii_field: 'Next on the TODO list: PLLs, Timing Analysis...' << ahahahahahaha
ascii_field: try synthesizing ~anything~ of any serious complexity without exact timing data for ~every piece of shit on the die~
ascii_field: i gotta take my hat off to these folks for sheer effort, but the fact remains that they are scooping out the sea with the proverbial thimble.
gabriel_laddel: To any "hackers" reading the logs - rather than going after hackteam, try xilinx, lattice semiconductor next time?
ascii_field: ('how it ends,' for the uninitiated, is that some time around when these fine folks are about half done, the chip will go out of print. and be replaced by an entirely incompatible one.)
ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: this doesn't help either. no one can force them to keep making the 'doxxed' chip.
☟︎ ascii_field: a 'doxxed' fpga is entirely useless if you can't get it!
gabriel_laddel: ascii_field: imho this is going to be a slow process of ad-hoc reverse engineering of a design, finding chiacom manufactures...
ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: there is no mass market for these.
ascii_field: not bribery as such, just that you'd have to pay the fab up front, cash on the barrel
ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: another detail that must be understood is that reversing for the purpose of programming is a very different animal from reversing for the purpose of rebuilding.
ascii_field: in the case of the latter, it is necessary to have a ~complete~ picture of the vital organs
ascii_field: including aspects that a programmer doesn't give a flying fuck about, like chemistry
ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: good to see that he's still kicking, somewhere
ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: i suspected he might have 'went perelman'
williamdunne: gabriel_laddel: About 12 months ago I was tasked with checking the security of a fiat institution. Within three hours I had found two different bugs to send money from accounts that weren't mine, and two different bugs to view all account details that weren't mine, and another to see all transaction details that weren't mine.
williamdunne: IKR, the operator was a friend of mine, but he was very concerned when I sent him the details for a large transaction from themselves to a law firm they employ
gabriel_laddel: Speaking of Uncle Al - not only did the 'gentlemen' at the eot wash group modify their URL scheme so that his links appear "dead", but Stanford has also moved the single link in qz4.html
ascii_field: williamdunne: and that was when he put out your eyes and cut out your tongue ?
williamdunne: ascii_field: not quite, although I do regret agreeing to do it pro-bono
gabriel_laddel: williamdunne: so you're the guy who makes the spice flow?
ascii_field: 'Be homicidally depressed and aim at the top. That is like voting, except the count is honest and meaningful.'
williamdunne: I've never received a job by anything but reference. First job when I was 14 was a game programmer, second job when 15 was working at a military intelligence company in London doing some infosec and accounting type stuff. Lots of freelancing stuff
williamdunne: Security, programming, pretty much anything with a keyboard
williamdunne: Recently did some stuff for the BitFinex guys, that wasn't much fun but y'know. Pays for stuff. Think I'll have more with them in future
williamdunne: What happened to that German socialist girl, she ever come back to continue her derping?
☟︎ gabriel_laddel: "The antidote to national social and financial collapse is war. War clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of social and economic realities. It rewards the creative, productive, and effective. It reduces redundant populations. North Korea, India, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia (paid for Paki research, repaid by Paki nukes) stare down some 1000 exceptionally well-crafted and deliverable Israeli thermonukes.
gabriel_laddel: Fukishima effluent on California's coast chews up the food chain to seals. 39 million person California, tremendously government subsidized, is collapsed. Its unsecured debt is the Saudi GNP while its $45 billion/year agriculture Central Valley has returned to desert, unemploying a million Mexican slaves with nowhere to go. Let's run the Battle of the Somme again, and soon. The jet stream dips south in autumn." (fr
trinque: war doesn't really reduce redundant population
trinque: bounces right back after the war, if there's a dip at all
ascii_field: 'If you want to end ISIS, teach it game theory and casebooks. "They['ll] get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, minimax solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do," and lose.' (from the al schwartz link earlier)
☟︎ trinque: mats: I am not finding a good graph of the russian population per year, yet I recall ww2 being a temporary blip downward that was rapidly recovered
trinque: and they sustained huge casualties
mats: the specific claim being made is 'redundant populations'
mats: how do we evaluate this claim
trinque: there'd have to be some correlation between an indicator of this redundancy before the war and which soldiers died
trinque: "unskilled laborers died more often than ..." << maybe something like that
ascii_field: '12 years public school, 4 years undergrad, 6 years PhD, 4 years post-doc. You are now over 30, deeply in debt, and starting life. Your idiot high school classmate who held a STOP sign at a construction site has been pulling $80K/year, has a fine home, wife, three kids, and a motor boat. His eldest son rakes in $850K/year tax-free facilitating recreational pharmaceuticals and an escort service.' << schwartz
☟︎ trinque: mats: but then even if the stupid tend to die more often, it could still be so that the stupid back home fuck enough to replenish stocks
mats: ain't social science great
ascii_field: trinque: intelligence doesn't breed true. (stupidity, however, does. this confuses folks)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14900 @ 0.00057258 = 8.5314 BTC [+]
trinque: ascii_field: I don't follow
trinque: ah that intelligence is not necessarily passed down genetically?
ascii_field: trinque: also most folks who idly ponder the subject end up conflating several distinct things under 'intelligence'
ascii_field: which is the thing without which arbitrarily strong 'intelligence' ends up a chinese exam taker
ascii_field: interestingly, old norse, even, had a very specific word for this trait
☟︎ ascii_field does not have the link with him. if anyone recalls the answer, do chime in
trinque: old norse probably had an honorable term for the thing
trinque: ascii_field: something like the combination of dominance and being a social supernode?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu chronically links the two, but they are entirely independent
ascii_field: one can have one coming out of ears and arse, and lack the other entirely
☟︎ ascii_field: specifically, you can have arbitrarily high 'psychoticism' in the sense of being perelman and no 'dominance' or 'social supernode' to speak of.
trinque: ascii_field: then is it a measure of the willingness to fight other people?
ascii_field: if you must reduce it to a soundbite - it is just a measure of the quality of the rng in your head
ascii_field: nothing to do with relating to other people.
trinque: ascii_field: I am promting you to define the term instead of merely restating it
trinque: I do not follow that definition either
ascii_field: trinque: i am certain that, just like everyone else here, you have met both kinds of 'intelligence'
ascii_field: i.e. 'champion at exams' vs the other kind.
trinque: sure, and the former is deeply embedded in a group concept of what he ought to be doing
trinque: and the latter has his own idea
ascii_field: what makes the exam champ the waste of oxygen that he is ?
☟︎ trinque: general obedience is what I see
trinque: ascii_field: by good RNG do you mean that they are capable of novel thoughts?
trinque: rather, that they have a greater capacity for ...
jborkl: The way it has been before, not all nodes have the same amount of txns in mempool - I never got enough of a explanation to discuss it
jborkl: mine has 32000 currently and blockchain has 21000
trinque: then yes, I see your point
ascii_field: the 'capable' part is definitely key. who hasn't met his fair share of hack writers, for instance, poor schmucks grasping desperately for one singe original idea? and never finding it
☟︎ jurov: jborkl: maybe different antispam rules
trinque: ascii_field: haha, my former bosses for instance
jborkl: possible, there are a ton of waiting txns either way and the spike has been recently
jborkl: although I have just been watching from the sideline for a long time (not active)
trinque: ascii_field: it would make a great deal of sense to me if there were a connection between this kind of intelligence and personality traits which cause him to have a much lower default level of regard for any particular human off the street.
trinque: if he in fact has the capability, then the empathy which might cause him to accept someone else's perspective instead would only be a hindrance
☟︎ trinque: maybe someone that secretly collects human skin furniture then
trinque can see he will never earn the honorific "the Terrible"
ascii_field: true Not Giving A Fuck doesn't have a plus or minus sign. it's just a big fat zero.
decimation: re: stupid breeding true < I thought 'reversion to the population mean' was the general outcome
decimation: I suppose tragically stupid parents are likely to have slightly smarter children
decimation: but two iq 90 parents are likely to have children that score a little closer to 100
decimation: who would be lost in the unwashed 1st std deviation anyway
assbot: Logged on 12-08-2014 00:44:36; mjr_: by the way, anyone gonna tell me if i can play this game where i can buy things with bitcoin?
decimation: re: political time < it occurred to me that the far more obvious way of synchronizing a clock is to simply take note of the sunrise and/or sunset
☟︎ decimation: in fact, someone who depises 'astronomical time' in favor of cesium time is also fully in favor of 'usg time'
decimation: actually it would be neat to build a nutrino detector
ascii_field: afaik there is no useful timing info in solar neutrono flows
decimation: you might be able to determine the angle of the sun w.r.t. the earth's surface
ascii_field: and, considering the famous formula ('50/50 interactions when passing through light-year of lead') portable detector is a questionable affair
decimation: although biologics would probably jam your signal
ascii_field: examine the construction of a neutrino observatory.
ascii_field: (typically, abandoned mine filled with salt water and thousands of photomultiplier tubes on the walls, each the size of a man's torso)
ascii_field: anyway, since this thread came back to life, i will point out that mircea_popescu is right re: the notion of time being necessary for a bitcoin net. but it doesn't have to come from a clock as traditionally understood
ascii_field: it just has to be a reasonably-periodic signal that all nodes can see, whose period is not affected by the aggregate hash rate, nor can be manipulated at reasonable expense by gnomes
decimation: perhaps the pogo should come with a sunlight detector
ascii_field: not only because they are not reliably detectable (rain, clouds, being in a submarine)
ascii_field: but because can be faked in various 'good enough' ways
ascii_field: and, on the other end, require specialized hardware
decimation: if usg can spam uv over a large area for hours, then you probably have bigger problems than money
ascii_field: decimation: thinking more of hacks like rf detection of sunspot cycle
decimation: yeah. ultimately a thinking person can observe sunrise, sunset, set own clock (calendar might be another matter)
decimation: of course 'set clock' algorithm needs your lat/lon
lobbes: plus, then you are back to 'who sets the clocks' problem
ascii_field: and what of when you cannot see the sunrise ?
decimation: then you ought to have made preparations
decimation: if you have a submarine, you probably ought to have high quality timekeeping equipment
ascii_field: we already know how to meet and set clocks, last i checked
ascii_field: two (at minimum) geographically separated people, with enemies in between, wish to agree re: how much time has passed since they last spoke, 2016 blocks ago.
decimation: they don't own clocks and can't see the sunrise and don't know where they are too?
ascii_field: let's suppose they traded pgp keys and can communicate securely. however, they cannot prevent the enemy from delaying messages
ascii_field: say they own very poor clocks, which drift by a second - or more - per minute.
ascii_field: and now compound the problem by supposing that it is not you and your best friend, but you and a network consisting, to an unknown degree, of devils
decimation: devils who reluctantly serve up blocksl
ascii_field: devils who do whatever it takes to camouflage as men
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92665 @ 0.00057468 = 53.2527 BTC [+] {4}
funkenstein_: consider a node that passes on valid TXs, checks new blocks for proper work and passes them on. it ignores timestamps and lets miners say what current difficulty is. useless or not?
ascii_field: (will accept blocks that are not, by the traditional bitcoin rules, valid. and predicate acceptance of future blocks on these turds - which is what 'accept a block' means)
ascii_field: typically from when mining was considerably 'easier'
ben_vulpes: i'm sure you've gone into this in depth, but doesn't the length of the current main chain make that ludicrously expensive?
ascii_field: certain variants of the attack are prohibitively costly, yes
ben_vulpes: aha the one where you simply hold difficulty constant and mine a long-ass chain.
ascii_field: or feeding a whole alternate universe to a virginal (has nothing but genesis) node
decimation: I donno, it strikes me that having a sundial and knowing how to use it (convert to universal time) is a pretty cheap counter
ascii_field: which yes, you can defend against with crude kludges like storing sums, but this is 'enumerated badness'
ben_vulpes: decimation: but then people would have to touch it !!111twelve1
ascii_field: decimation: now you have a human slave in the loop
decimation: well, if slave tells you time of day, the class of attacks you describe become much more difficult
ascii_field: except that the attacks now include having one's throat cut at night, aha
ascii_field: at any rate, we don't actually know how to do 'proof of work' thing using meat.
ascii_field: if we did, 'hawala' would have used it 2000 y ago.
ascii_field: in my mind, that's sorta the whole point of bitcoin.
decimation: why does the fact that your throat can be cut invalidate proof of work?
shinohai: I should say having one's throat cut invalidates a lot of things.
ascii_field: the unfortunate thing is that the 'easy to verify, hard to produce' thing very much requires machines.
decimation: at any rate, I fully admit that bitcoin requires slaves to feed computers the right data and configure them
decimation wonders if skynet will need an 'economy' or will just directly solve the 'need things/have things' trade matrix
bagels7: i'll be your slave for a million dollars on a 5 year basis
☟︎ ascii_field: decimation: do you know the story of how the concept of 'space station' came about?
ascii_field: well, afaik the 'precise' is not publicly known. but the ancient rumour that was taught to me was that it was a usg military propaganda trick
ascii_field: see, somebody's gotta change the vacuum tubes
ascii_field: except when they don't. then, suddenly, much less talk of space stations
decimation: su actually built 'manned spy satellites' - became 'civilian peace stations' in the 80's
ascii_field: just as usg turned their orbital nuke dropper into 'space shuttle'
decimation: but I do see your point, if we can make the hardware 'reliable'
ascii_field: a pogo, as i envision it, has much in common with a comm satellite
shinohai: Is there a history of the pogo somewhere?
ascii_field: shinohai: of the pogo as it comes from the vendor ?
shinohai: Of your particular dealings. How the idea of using it came about.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu posed the question of what is the cheapest mass-produced piece of equipment that could be pressed into service to run therealbitcoin.
ascii_field: mainly because it is (or rather was) sold far below cost by the manufacturer
ascii_field: who was pushing a weirdo 'cloud subscription' thing with it
shinohai: I am fascinated by how mircea_popescu envisioned that. I tried for well over a year to figure out how to busybox it.
ascii_field: (certain necessaries did not work correctly)
shinohai: I was hoping my pogo would arrive today, but postman has already come. :/
ascii_field: shinohai: most of what i've done re: therealbitcoin so far revolves around getting memory footprint under control
ascii_field: shinohai: pogo has 128M of ram, soldered on.
shinohai: And it is fantastic work, imho. My shell provider doesn't bitch at me about bandwidth anymore either.
williamdunne: Wait, people are successful at running bitcoin on summin with 128m of ram?
ascii_field: everything i did only ~increases~ bandwidth consumption
shinohai: For some reason mine has dropped, but probably because I'm not connecting to a bzillion nodes
ascii_field: (this was a node, i must remind the reader, with no mempool, on account of having no net connection and being fed blocks 'intravenously' if you will)
ascii_field: the thing here, as discussed in the past, is that 300 bytes (block header and overhead) are kept in ram at all times per ~known block~
ascii_field: now if the node is 'live' and has net connection, hears tx, suffers possible fragging (see old threads) - then even more consumption.
ascii_field: but what you see in that graph is the only 'leak' in the usual sense
ascii_field: as in, the one thing that is guaranteed to grow monotonically
ascii_field: 'As you may have noticed, Bitcoin unfortunately has run out of capacity due to someone DoS attacking the network.'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14762 @ 0.00056898 = 8.3993 BTC [-]
trinque: "I suspect it can be mitigated through heavier reliance on coin age priority, as coin age is not something that can be trivially bought on the spot, unlike fee priority."
trinque: same idiot argument re: spam as Luke-Jr
trinque: IF IT HAS A FEE ATTACHED AND IS A VALID TXN, IT'S NOT SPAM
ascii_field: though gotta wonder if this is still fair to say re: a gigantic sack of shit with the words 'this is spam, and fuck you' printed right on it
ascii_field: (the tx sent to brainwallet('password') etc)
trinque: sure, one can imagine some sane criteria on determining spamitude
ascii_field: but aside from that, bidding up space in blocks by blowing one's own coin is a perfectly legit thing to do
trinque: it's telling that they are not even willing to consider using, you know, a fucking market for this
☟︎ ascii_field: if usg wants to spend its coin this way, it can
mats: its an ideological matter to hear Luke-Jr tell it
ascii_field: as i pointed out before, it is being done for two disjoint reasons. one is so that hearn can write the turd linked above, re: 'it is crowded and we need blocks of $maxint size'
ascii_field: the other is so that gavin & co. can try to persuade miners to use their turdball
☟︎ mats: 'i dun wanna hold gigs of "spam" on my drive, and nobody else does either'
ascii_field: by promising 'tx fee ordering' as a feature
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 21:12:24; trinque: it's telling that they are not even willing to consider using, you know, a fucking market for this
trinque: right, I said this yesterday
trinque: stress test seems to prove the system works from where I sit
ascii_field: because they can't send their 0.01 btc without fee
ascii_field: one telling mark of a tard is that he is unwilling to consider that market's job is not only to supply folks with things, but to REFUSE to supply them
☟︎☟︎ trinque: ascii_field: reminds me of mircea_popescu's recent comments to the effect of roughly "We've done it! I exist!"
trinque: cannot think of a more vulgar mentality
trinque: that the fact of their pulse is by itself something special and important
mats: we're all equals, man
mats: we must has equal outcomes or else fascism
thestringpuller: we get fee market. fuck the people who can't pay for their nice things
thestringpuller: stop complaining about "waah my transactions is unconfirmed waaaah"
BingoBoingo just switched own nodes to 0.001 min fee for transaction relay
ascii_field: thestringpuller: i'm not even certain that the 'ocean of complaint' consists of real people
ascii_field: rather than philippino meat puppets for-hire
BingoBoingo: Impact of my relay policy change on the network will be near nil, but policy is policy
funkenstein_: meanwhile litecoin users enjoying "stress test" popcorn
funkenstein_: i've never understood the philippino references i see here
shinohai: !s philippino meat puppets for-hire
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2015 23:04:03; mircea_popescu: it was highlighted by intel about two weeks ago, and we're generally tracing it to philippines "top quality" content farms working for a number of (mostly ct and wash based) pr firms.
fluffypony: itt: nobody can spell phillllippppinnnnooooo
assbot: Logged on 02-02-2015 23:03:08; mircea_popescu: "I've noticed certain repeating characteristic in the writing of many members of this forum: they construct grammatically correct sentences but absolutely disregard the underlying semantics: incoming vs. outgoing, local vs. remote, source vs. destination, etc. Here in regards to TCP/IP ports, but I observed that in regards to pretty much any technical issue."
trinque: who gives a shit about arbitrary distinctions such as that?
trinque: only asciilifeform's test takers
trinque: and players of dwarf fortress
williamdunne: Sorta like how dyslexic is probably pretty hard to spell if you're dyslexic
BingoBoingo is guessing that at some point Rubidium standards are going to become #b-a coture
decimation: BingoBoingo: actually high quality ovenized quartz can be nearly as good as rubidium
BingoBoingo: Suffers labeling issues though. Hard to tell buy ordering if you get actual part or Chicom turd
decimation: there is a description on how to derive time by measuring the moon's motion relative to other objects in the sky
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Nah, for different, later problems
BingoBoingo: At somepoint though we will have the problem on when to start decelerating the starship lest we crashland into Alpha Centurai
BingoBoingo: And the way to not drown might just be space ship
decimation: ^ clocks that could be, but probably are not, checked for accuracy
BingoBoingo: I read the thread. closest I have to solutions are either Noping ft. meade off the earth into the sun or Noping out and taking stator to ALpha Centurai
BingoBoingo: But I dunno. Maybe at some point radio hashes happens.
BingoBoingo: Disguise the signal as over the horizon radar
BingoBoingo: And at that point why not have competing political time broadcast on that signal, signed
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 18:06:08; ascii_field: gabriel_laddel: this doesn't help either. no one can force them to keep making the 'doxxed' chip.
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 18:32:24; williamdunne: What happened to that German socialist girl, she ever come back to continue her derping?
decimation: also describing it as 'political time' when the policy is 'matches easily observable astronomical phenomena' seems a bit hyperbolic
☟︎ trinque: ^ found that googling as well
trinque: women in technology == technologically produced womyn
mircea_popescu: spacetime is an artefact of the observation being carried out.
decimation: as opposed to what? being derived from platonic ideals?
BingoBoingo: <decimation> spacetime doesn't exist? << It isn't space or time, merely the manifold until it is intuited by the apperception
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 19:02:31; ascii_field: 'If you want to end ISIS, teach it game theory and casebooks. "They['ll] get out their linear programming charts, statistical decision theories, minimax solutions, and compute the price-cost probabilities of their transactions and investments, just like we do," and lose.' (from the al schwartz link earlier)
assbot: Logged on 20-06-2015 23:17:19; asciilifeform: but no, he wants to use what the gods gave him.
assbot: Logged on 20-06-2015 19:29:12; mircea_popescu: the notion that human agency is ever "effectual" is such rank nonsense to begion with, that a pretense of "saving action for optimal effect" can only be regarded in psychogenic terms
mircea_popescu: specifically, that if you wait for the "optimal" you're waiting forever.
mircea_popescu: decimation in any case, the time bitcoin uses is a political construct.
mircea_popescu: a matter of conventional agreementr, currently overseen by exactly usg.
mircea_popescu: unless you wish to experimentally prove that ~you~ can insert leap seconds into places.
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 19:17:10; ascii_field: '12 years public school, 4 years undergrad, 6 years PhD, 4 years post-doc. You are now over 30, deeply in debt, and starting life. Your idiot high school classmate who held a STOP sign at a construction site has been pulling $80K/year, has a fine home, wife, three kids, and a motor boat. His eldest son rakes in $850K/year tax-free facilitating recreational pharmaceuticals and an escort service.' << schw
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 19:38:22; ascii_field: one can have one coming out of ears and arse, and lack the other entirely
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 19:46:07; ascii_field: what makes the exam champ the waste of oxygen that he is ?
mircea_popescu: so the problem there is of management not of nature. chinese exam taker is a great asset in any sanely balanced system.
mircea_popescu: and generally, the quality of a system is to be measured by how many people it can make life meaningful for, not how many people it has to kill to survive.
mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-07-2015#1193636 << consider many of the things we regularly discuss here. most people are neither willing to consider not even willing to look upon the outrage that goes on daily, hourly. be it icons of say badly beaten up women, or whatever else. plenty of people keep lists of words they won't ever say. this disinclination ~to consider~, however the subject justifies it, is the c
☝︎ assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 19:51:46; ascii_field: the 'capable' part is definitely key. who hasn't met his fair share of hack writers, for instance, poor schmucks grasping desperately for one singe original idea? and never finding it
mircea_popescu: fact is, if you're not willing to consider the things you aren't going to do, your not doing them is not any sort merit, and it certainly won't ever work in your favour.
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 19:55:54; trinque: if he in fact has the capability, then the empathy which might cause him to accept someone else's perspective instead would only be a hindrance
trinque: that's more or less what I got from asciilifeform, that he was describing a person which, to put it in idiot's terms "does what makes sense to him"
trinque: could not find much clinical "psychopathy" in that
trinque: which leads me to suspect the term itself is stupid
trinque: I (perhaps incorrectly) take "psychopath" to be a political term, akin to "sociopath"
trinque: the former something like "does what he wants to, even if people cry" and the latter maybe "lies to his enemies, effectively"
trinque: mostly just that; I hear these terms most often used by someone who thinks someone else has been unfair, and ought to be restrained by the state
trinque: was otherwise fishing for asciilifeform's definition of the term.
punkman: mircea_popescu: does romanian have a word for sociopath?
mircea_popescu: just like in english, it doesn't actually mean anything, unlike english it is not used by the hipstery youth.
punkman: there's an academic word for it in greek, nobody ever uses it though
mircea_popescu: there is aschilopat, which is a purely nonsense word that is use to convey roughly the same notion, "invisible gross diformity worthy of pity" but it's blue collar slang mostly.
assbot: The Last Psychiatrist: The Diagnosis of Borderline Personality Disorder: What Does It Really Mean? ... (
http://bit.ly/1KPORuX )
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 20:08:22; decimation: re: political time < it occurred to me that the far more obvious way of synchronizing a clock is to simply take note of the sunrise and/or sunset
trinque: "This is what sociopathy is : what the scum of the earth currently calls its betters." << right, soon to give way to "fagtalkers"
trinque: though one hopes it doesn't take long enough for that
trinque: I keep wanting to call that "inversion"
trinque: where something unnatural persists for so long it becomes the basis of comparison
trinque: eh unnatural is problematic
assbot: Logged on 08-07-2015 20:35:49; funkenstein_: the chain with the most work demonstrated wins
punkman: mircea_popescu: I liked the toilet analogy
mircea_popescu: punkman how far off do you think tyhat piece is, as a local ?
punkman: mircea_popescu: close enough
punkman: maybe a good time for a translation of the older ones? gtranslate not doing them justice
solrodar: mircea_popescu: one of your blog readers
solrodar: I've made an attempt at the call graph you requested