log
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shinohai: https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/2016-November/042639.html
BingoBoingo: In other college sex http://dailyegyptian.com/62890/news/siu-food-pantry-usage-three-times-higher-than-projected/
mod6: jurov: looks like the Bitcoin Foundation Mailing List is down:
mod6: http://therealbitcoin.org/mailman/listinfo/btc-dev
mod6: Thoughts?
jurov: seems up. don't you have aws ec2 firewalled?
jurov: or mail did not go through?
mod6: i didn't even try to send, was just trying to view the page...
mod6: weird. lemme try again from another place.
mod6: i can't seem to hit it from my one thing, but from the other it's fine.
mod6: im blocked from my one thing for sure. wonder wtf. will post image.
mod6: just a sec.
mod6: http://www.mod6.net/CloudFrontError.png
shinohai: Been so busy you forgotten how to satisfy requests? >.>
mod6: <+jurov> seems up. don't you have aws ec2 firewalled? << no not at all actually, i have an ec2 instance that i'm connected to from the same place I'm trying to make this failing request from as I type this.
mod6: shouldn't be a problem... so weird
jurov: will look into tomorrow if it won't clear by itself
mod6: ok thanks jurov :]
mod6: i can get to it outside my little sandbox, so i guess it must be fine for everyone else.. wish i knew wtf tho
shinohai: !~btc.blocks 441204
jhvh1: http://mimisbrunnr.cascadianhacker.com/blocks?height=441204
trinque: namecheap deleted the wot.deedbot.org record without being told!
trinque: what the fuck.
trinque: hm not even, it's there but not resolving
trinque: pointed out by mod6 and shinohai in another castle
shinohai: namecheap is now known as namecheat
mod6: savages
trinque: I have a hard time seeing how a single DNS record within the set could accidentally be missing.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/2B5E5AB34C507178A1A2170F6EFC28F6DA28CD794017847D895F100E1117F00E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2717...2039 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '93.91.48.21 (ssh-rsa key from 93.91.48.21 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (ns1.inet4.cz. CZ)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/8B213F3E99C8276EF9F4F7283718B1FC1E05CD4588623C6F20F1FED833CE1085 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 2065...4871 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '67.18.208.92 (ssh-rsa key from 67.18.208.92 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (li23-92.members.linode.com. US TX)
jurov: i'd recommend joker.com for domains, typically swiss approach, using them for years. but they don't accept bitcoins.
mats: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1574660 << https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/2016-November/042641.html lul☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 00:04 shinohai: https://lists.torproject.org/pipermail/tor-talk/2016-November/042639.html
deedbot: http://trinque.org/2016/11/29/namecheap-the-incompetent-namecheap-the-nameless/ << trinque - Namecheap the Incompetent, Namecheap the Nameless
BingoBoingo: !~bcstats
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 441218 | Current Difficulty: 2.818009171931958E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 441503 | Next Difficulty In: 285 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 day, 23 hours, 10 minutes, and 20 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
mircea_popescu: trinque so what did you move to ?
trinque: I guess I'll try jurov's thing
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-29#1574637 << nobel prize, you know ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-29 23:20 mats: TIL obama assisted syrian rebels with acquiring sarin, and then blamed assad for it when used in the field
mircea_popescu: trinque i dun recall which that was ?
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1574690☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 02:03 jurov: i'd recommend joker.com for domains, typically swiss approach, using them for years. but they don't accept bitcoins.
mircea_popescu: ah.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-29#1574651 < imagine the sort of imbeciles who still work for this very dubious employer after that.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-29 23:35 asciilifeform: (as was done with 'osama crew')
mircea_popescu: da fuck, 8 yo needs 2 mris ?
mircea_popescu: shoot the kid.
mod6: jurov: ok, i can get to 'http://therealbitcoin.org/mailman/listinfo/btc-dev' just fine now.
mod6: but I did send an email to the ML about 2.5 hours ago that didn't get bounced. probably stuck in the pipe again.
mats: the shell code in this tor bug looks almost exactly like the one in fbi 'network investigative tool' from three years ago
trinque: !!deed http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/BkLhL/?raw=true
deedbot: accepted: 1
mats: looks like this is mentioned in the tor ml already
BingoBoingo: lol http://qntra.net/2016/11/18-year-old-somali-child-killed-by-police-at-the-ohio-state-university/#comment-80156
BingoBoingo: 3 comments
trinque: ahaha wd
trinque would love to know where these people came from
BingoBoingo: ALmost certainly reddit
trinque: "if'n u don't like it, u kin geeedddout"
BingoBoingo: Seriously not a single attempt to read any of the linked content to develop context on the venue
asciilifeform: !~ later tell mircea_popescu http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/rC2tS/?raw=true
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
trinque: BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2016/11/18-year-old-somali-child-killed-by-police-at-the-ohio-state-university/#comment-80158 << lel
trinque: http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/11/29/german-domestic-intelligence-officer-arrested-plotting-islamic-terror-attack/ << in other beat'em join'em conundrums
BingoBoingo: lol
BingoBoingo: Anyways, the best part of light satire is trolling the people who in their hearts want to believe with us but can't because idiot redditards.
deedbot: http://deedbot.org/bundle-441235.txt
jurov: mod6: looks like mailman crashed, after restarting it delivered fine. Last thing logged was:
jurov: Nov 30 04:40:29 2016 (22747) Hostile listname: btc-dev'
jurov: interdasting
mircea_popescu: mailman rose up in arms against the very list it was supposed to return ?!
mircea_popescu: lol the butthurt re that qntra is pretty good.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/EE6440B35451CC5447607C04C7DEA4AB3D37F134168ABC3ABE6B9361A5F581DD << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1585...2717 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '207.234.129.246 (ssh-rsa key from 207.234.129.246 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (207-234-129-246.ptr.primarydns.com. US FL)
mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> Seriously not a single attempt to read any of the linked content to develop context on the venue << i dunno dood, "the serene republic of somalia" etc. they be trynna.
mircea_popescu: and in other news us T bonds are getting massacred.
mircea_popescu: the 10year is up 7.0 base points no less!
BingoBoingo: Inflation is coming
mircea_popescu: basically now that obama's out, the saudis finally agreed to cut the flood ; oil jumped like 10% after they announced.
mircea_popescu: (iran, the us's only apparently remaining ally in the world, decided not to participate)
mircea_popescu: srsly, the world is now a us-iran partnership trying to stand up to a russian-turkey alliance while a very horny europe is drooling cunt juice on one side and a rather geeky china is holding its distance on the other side.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo not just inflation. yields are higher and growing rapidly ; the dollar is strengthening and stocks are going up. this is the classical desperation run-up to black tuesday.
BingoBoingo: Aha
mircea_popescu: whatever his plans, desires, choices whatever, it seems absolutely certain trump will have a major depression on his hands ; to the tune of "70% of this country's wealth evaporated overnight ; wut do ?!?!"
BingoBoingo: Blame Obama and CLinton!
mircea_popescu: the odds of the syrian situation blowing up into actual war ru+tk vs us+iran (but without nato) are actually non-trivial by now.
mircea_popescu: to be perfectly fair : the dems tried to set up bush the bomb in exactly the same manner in 2000 ; and then the democrat-alligned osama set bush the bomb fo reals.
mircea_popescu: so it is vaguely possible hillary&friends actually have some sarin in say new york subway, not just at the bases of their jenissary in syria.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/11/opec-agrees-to-cut-output/ << Qntra - OPEC Agrees To Cut Output
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo prolly also link the log.
BingoBoingo: Will do
mircea_popescu: anyway, should be interesting if italy votes to exit.
mircea_popescu: (dec 4th - they're even advertising it here.)
mircea_popescu: ahahah warren called mnuchin the forrest gump of the financial crisis.
mircea_popescu: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-russia-erdogan-idUSKBN13P136 << o wait. lol.
asciilifeform: 'Philip Morris CEO looks towards phasing out cigarettes: BBC' << lel
asciilifeform: 'The company's IQOS smokeless cigarette, which is already on sale in over a dozen markets including Japan, Switzerland and Italy, heats tobacco enough to produce a vapor without burning it. The company believes that makes it much less harmful than cigarettes.' << i thought this died in 1970s..?
jurov: nope, e-cigs are a thing here
jurov: though they do make smoke, but smells good, unlike classical cigs
BingoBoingo: jurov: Different sort of monster http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=117913
BingoBoingo: Last major incarnation of this was stick full of tobacco where small charcoal disk burned for maximum carbon monoxide exposure
jurov: ever seen water pipe? it uses charcoal puck, too. and CO isn't very well absorbed by water (unlike CO2)
jurov: i'd prefer that all way than burning sugar, menthol and zillion other additives they put to classical cigs
jurov: so, it all looks to me one part of tobacco industry FUDdind an other one
jurov: *FUDding
asciilifeform: jurov: the lulzy bit is that the 'heated tobacco' thing was a 1970s (and possibly prior) crackpottery
asciilifeform: jurov: 'e-cig' does not (unless broke down and battery on fire...) emit smoke, it sputters out propylene glycol (theatrical smoke)
BingoBoingo: jurov: the linked eclipse thing is cigarette shaped fiberglass reinforced paper tube tipped with charcoal. Is a lulzy thing best not stuck in mouth.
asciilifeform: same thing as in asthmatic inhaler device.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: aha, linked item is different, it seems to still have fuel/fire in it
jurov not an expert
asciilifeform also not an expert, but used to work with a d00d who was a serious aficionado
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/EE6440B35451CC5447607C04C7DEA4AB3D37F134168ABC3ABE6B9361A5F581DD << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1386...2457 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '207.234.129.246 (ssh-rsa key from 207.234.129.246 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (207-234-129-246.ptr.primarydns.com. US FL)
mircea_popescu: anything but "go back to pure tobacco" huh.
mircea_popescu: ANYTHING but that
mircea_popescu: re water pipe - the liquid is infrequently changed, certainly not often enough to maintain co2 solvency
asciilifeform: tobacco, like 'generic pharma', is 'unamerican', can't sell generic leaf that grows on half planet, must sell INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY!11111
asciilifeform: (leaf + proprietary crapolade)
jurov: i have read that tobacco must be dried slowly (like, a month) otherwise it retains more sugar which burns nastily
jurov: such slow process is anathema to anything industrial
mircea_popescu: i have no idea why. shipping for isntance takes 3mo + and apparently they prefer it that way.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile the idiots at the guardian made a begging banner which has an X that is not connected to anything, just drawn on the banner itself.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile according to reddit, theguardian.com is a respectable source and qntra.net is the spamsite. because totally.
mircea_popescu: all this to see george monbiot try his best to sell the "our fake citizens groups are for real and everything else is fake" line.
asciilifeform: in other 'news', MOTHERFUCKER, curl STRIPS NEWLINES by default wtf
mircea_popescu: it does ?
asciilifeform was convinced that we had this thread
asciilifeform: cat clearsigned_thing.txt | curl -H "Content-type: text/plain" --d @- http://machine
asciilifeform: results in soup
asciilifeform: cat clearsigned_thing.txt | curl -H "Content-type: text/plain" --data-binary @- http://machine
asciilifeform: worx.
mircea_popescu: likely the fault of machine
asciilifeform: nope.
mircea_popescu: well,we had this thread (iirc you brought it up), came out it was fault of machine.
asciilifeform: did we..
asciilifeform: ?
mircea_popescu: yeah most recently re wotpaste.
asciilifeform: curl 7.30.0 really does seem to munge newlines unless 'binary' mode.
mircea_popescu: hm.
shinohai: I've used --data-raw to good effect and didn't get newlines stripped
mircea_popescu: may be a matter of curl version also
mod6: jurov: thanks for pushing that one through and taking care of mailman.
asciilifeform: !!up yalehasaquestion
deedbot: yalehasaquestion voiced for 30 minutes.
yalehasaquestion: hey, I'd like to know, I've been running a listening node, and I added 46.166.165.30 as a peer -- but I don't look like I'm connected to it
asciilifeform: yalehasaquestion: that's my node. where are you connecting from.
asciilifeform: ?
yalehasaquestion: Toronto, ON - 129.33.193.187
asciilifeform: stay tuned
yalehasaquestion: would it have something to do with the fact that I'm running core 0.13.1?
asciilifeform: you aren't on the banhammer list
asciilifeform: HOWEVER
shinohai: !~later tell BingoBoingo http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/wFTLy/?raw=true
asciilifeform: all of asciilifeform's nodes are equipped with Malleus MikeHearnificarum
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/patches/malleus_mikehearnificarum
yalehasaquestion: I am interested in understanding what that is, however I'm not much of an expert on such things
asciilifeform: yalehasaquestion: i'll check the logs for your node, brb
yalehasaquestion: nice patch haha
trinque: yalehasaquestion: on another note, why are you running "core 0.13.1" ?
trinque: yet inquiring here
shinohai was about to ask the same question.
yalehasaquestion: I am curious about your community, and I'm learning
trinque: fair nuff
yalehasaquestion: and it is your node -- I mean, I could be doing this wrong :)
asciilifeform: yalehasaquestion: oddly enough, no record of any connections from your ip
shinohai: Best way to learn is to go to http://thebitcoin.foundation/trb-howto.html and stand up your own trb node.
trinque: ^
yalehasaquestion: I am trying to understand your views on segwit
yalehasaquestion: I haven't seen enough to really understand
asciilifeform: it may be the case that 'core 0.13.1' (which is an imposter pseudo-bitcoin client, see below) refuses to speak with trb.
asciilifeform: !#s prb
a111: 181 results for "prb", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=prb
asciilifeform: !#s segwit
a111: 62 results for "segwit", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=segwit
asciilifeform: yalehasaquestion ^ you will get the best mileage from reading the chan logs
asciilifeform: and using the search box.
trinque: yalehasaquestion: various creatures of ill repute have been bolting all kinds of insane shit to the codebase formerly known as bitcoin for years now
asciilifeform: yalehasaquestion: trb ( therealbitcoin.org ) is the ~actual~ bitcoin client. approximately as-it-was in 2012, with minor cleanups.
yalehasaquestion: am I correct that segwit will be backwards compatible?
trinque: this is not a general Q&A
yalehasaquestion: okay.
asciilifeform: trinque: humour the n00b
asciilifeform: yalehasaquestion: answer is no, it is disinfo.
asciilifeform: it is (the umpteenth) attempt to break bitcoin.
asciilifeform: by the usual suspects.
trinque: !#s hearn
a111: 468 results for "hearn", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=hearn
trinque: !#s gavin
a111: 1134 results for "gavin", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=gavin
trinque is humoring, yet n00b must be encouraged to start at the beginning
yalehasaquestion: yes, I guess I do.
yalehasaquestion: well thanks gents
asciilifeform: np.
asciilifeform: please consider reading the chan logs, yalehasaquestion .
trinque: for six months.
jurov: asciilifeform: iirc anything past 0.10.x won't speak with trb
asciilifeform: jurov: i must admit that it has been eons since i set up a prb, and the last one i tested was iirc 0.8.something (which worked with trb)
jurov: i remember 0.11 flatly refused
jurov: synced with 0.10.4
asciilifeform: i wouldn't put it past the imbeciles to try to split the net via node diddling alone.
asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rg-Gq9ijmFY << in other lulz.
asciilifeform: 'Watch Man Effortlessly Grab Bucket of Gold Worth $1.6M From Open Truck'
asciilifeform: ( tastes great with the old 'costs of guarding gold' and 'misalignment of incentives of guard and master' threads )
asciilifeform: ( 'stalin's' algorithm of guarding gold, i.e. 'if it is lost, shoot everyone who might have sold the coordinates of the convoy' doesn't necessarily work either, because somewhere high enough in the chain there is usually someone who is 1) unshootable + 2) knows the coords )
asciilifeform: this is really in re the old 'bitcoin at the nsa' thread but i've misplaced the date.
mircea_popescu: i think jurov has it.
mircea_popescu: something something optimized something something whatever.
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/AIEmq << in other 'optimizations' .
mircea_popescu: o hey, trilema payments for "linux news" ?
asciilifeform: that part is iirc old noose
asciilifeform: as is the subj, actually, shitgnomes are pretty close to breaking emacs
mircea_popescu: o hey, so in the end vi wins ?
asciilifeform: magnetized needle wins.
asciilifeform: linked piece is lulzy on account of the idiot 'solution' picked on the victim end, 'That solution comes in the form of the "portable dumper" patch from Daniel Colascione. This patch is not small; it adds over 4,500 lines of code to Emacs and it is not yet complete...'
asciilifeform: instead of 'find the poetterings and impale'
mircea_popescu: actually from what i can grok from that piece, the proposed solution (dump unexec, move on to saving elisp stack) is actually an improv meent
asciilifeform: theoretically.
mircea_popescu: well, from a system design perspective. it makes 0 sense for emacs to actually save c machine state.
mircea_popescu: it also makes 0 sense for it to be a c piece of code, but that's a discussion for another time
asciilifeform: emacs, in case anyone forgot, is made of 2 pieces - a megatonne bucked of crud written in 1970-era shitlisp, and an interpreter (yes) thereof
asciilifeform: the latter is a native binary for whatever box the thing is running on.
mircea_popescu: "The number of people aboard who can matter-of-factly hack the Emacs internals on the C level is consistently going down, and is already so small they can be counted on one hand. We must make Emacs depend less on people from this small and diminishing group, if we want the development pace increased or even kept at its current level." << this is a very solid point.
asciilifeform: *bucket
mircea_popescu: seems evident the correct solution is to get that proper lisp bootstrap i was discussing with phf and then re-write emacs in it.
mircea_popescu: really c has no business in any of it.
asciilifeform: has no business anywhere, really.
asciilifeform: but there is also a 3rd piece in emacs
mircea_popescu: "elisp" is in no better situation ftr.
asciilifeform: which in fact is the reason anyone even uses it: 30 years of elisp extensions.
asciilifeform: which rely on bug-for-bug compatibility with the morass.
mircea_popescu: very much the python problem.
mircea_popescu: anyway. like it or not - it's time for a newmacs.
asciilifeform: it is, laugh or cry, an actual problem, and imho the reason climacs was stillborn
asciilifeform: because at the end of the day, when choosing between '30 yrs of muscle memory' and 'MAYBE new emacs 30 yrs from now' everyone picked the former.
asciilifeform: the visigoths will write newmacs.
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: muscle memory is the thinking man's worst enemy ; not least of all because it tends to win.
asciilifeform: it is (and mthread / davout are invited to correct me , i am an armchair admiral ) as i understand, the reason why airplane today still has rudder pedals.
asciilifeform: i have here a b00k on piloting circa 1940, and already then author insists that rudder pedals are obsolete and have killed a thousand men
asciilifeform: ( rudder can and many times has been mechanically-linked to ailerons )
asciilifeform: and in a machine with such linkage, corkscrew is almost impossible.
asciilifeform: but men expect pedals. and so there they are.
asciilifeform: *mthreat
asciilifeform: re elisp, imho the 'apocalyptic' scale of the problem is overblown, if every d00d were to rewrite the few 100 of elisp that he actually ~uses~, in climacs, or whereever, job would be done in a week.
mircea_popescu: in principle this should be automatable tro a huge degree
mircea_popescu: reducing the problem to "if every dude ran this script and then picked multiple-choice options 5 times"
asciilifeform: in practice automassaged code is junk.
asciilifeform: because abstractions are not portable.
asciilifeform: ( ever use a fortran to c converter ?? )
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1574904 << word☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 21:12 asciilifeform: re elisp, imho the 'apocalyptic' scale of the problem is overblown, if every d00d were to rewrite the few 100 of elisp that he actually ~uses~, in climacs, or whereever, job would be done in a week.
ben_vulpes: betcha that's exactly what gabriel_laddel did
ben_vulpes: does
asciilifeform: i currently have nfi what, if anything, he did other than bum around.
asciilifeform: and fight with other bums over bag of pennies
trinque: is climacs usable to this degree?
asciilifeform: d00d suffers from the traditional disease of the 19yo 'night h4ck3r' , crippling tunnel vision
trinque: I keep hoping for a g_l writeup on the subj, but do not see a blog anywhere
mircea_popescu: i dunno, he's very reluctant to discipline
asciilifeform: no blog, no postbox...
asciilifeform: no pubkey.
asciilifeform: the man refuses to... exist
asciilifeform: ( how am i to reason about 'his' code, when none of it is signed, and there is naught to sign it with ..? )
mircea_popescu: myeah.
asciilifeform: i've wondered if he doesn't have a secret and dire problem with dope or similar.
trinque: there was a "10 cans of soda" thread
asciilifeform: iirc he lives in those lands where dopes are plentiful and cheap.
mircea_popescu: all lands are those lands.
asciilifeform: some > than others.
trinque: at any rate, if I were to invest time in climacs, that is time stolen from learning osdev to put a lisp interpreter on iron, which is time stolen from learning to fab silicon in a garage, which is time stolen from ...
trinque: call it the alf-dilemma.
trinque: recursive even!
phf: breaks my heart all that's been done to emacs. it used to have a strong culture of backwards compatibility. large packages would have compat files compat-19.el, compat-20.el, etc. where's now only latest and greatest work. used to be very non-dwim, now every single package insist on some "smart input" dwimy interaction mode. but all this complexity is broken, things clash and interact with each other in all kinds of funny ways
phf: i've been low-key reviving cmucl's hemlock, can't use portable hemlock nor climacs for that matter, because neither have terminal versions. needless to say the process is slow and painful. like right now i'm trying to figure out why scrolling the buffer is slow slow you can see each individual line redrawing. also arrow keys don't work
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1574893 << fwiw mit-scheme's editor edwin has an elisp emulation layer, that reportedly can run gnus of some vintage. when i heard about climacs from beach i actually though he was going to do an elisp translator too. one option might be to pickup edwin, but that's an exercise for someone else entirely☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 21:02 asciilifeform: it is, laugh or cry, an actual problem, and imho the reason climacs was stillborn
trinque: I'll be clinging to a frozen emacs version and frozen pile of elisp til valhalla.
trinque: seems this runs the risk of continuously being a refugee. "they broke my emacs, so I left for hemlock/climacs/etc, then they broke my X, then they broke my ..."
trinque: and of course they *will*
phf: well, we've already established that running everything on 2005 thinkpads is one viable option, but that's until supplies last
phf: *while
shinohai is still trying to source a nice 2005 thinkpad
trinque: phf: dunno that I'm making an argument for anything *else* either
trinque: though a topic I've been thinking upon a lot is, trigger warnings to asciilifeform, mitigations
trinque: though hardware ones, and not the kind normally meant
trinque: his serial diode concept being a good example
trinque: I've thought having a hardware parser/filter on a serial line where only certain bits can possibly flow over, and only in certain order, would compliment it.
phf: pray, mr. babbage
asciilifeform: ^
asciilifeform: i'd be curious to hear what trinque had in mind tho.
asciilifeform: 'diode' is ancient idea, and imho quite self-explanatory, it's a 1way valve, bits go --> but not <-- .
asciilifeform: anything more complicated / stateful tends to be called 'firewall', and also to suck.
trinque: "diode" is just cutting wire
trinque: and something quite stupid and forth-y could handle parsing a rudimentary set of possible statements to a db which eats from one serial port, shits to another
asciilifeform: there are variations on the theme, involving, e.g., optocouplers, but yes.
asciilifeform: trinque will like 'p'.
phf: or bpf
asciilifeform: phf: do you happen to know off the top of your head , what is the mass of bpf ?
asciilifeform: because i noticed interesting thing, supposedly 'simple' things will have a border beyond which the complexity explodes for 'no reason' , as per the 'cat' thread from 2 yrs ago
phf: i don't know. it has a whitepaper though
phf: http://www.tcpdump.org/papers/bpf-usenix93.pdf
asciilifeform: bad sign.
phf: well, it's a 93 whitepaper :)
asciilifeform: at any rate, i can hardly imagine that ~current~ ver of ~anything, even 'cat', is below 10,001 line..
asciilifeform: gotta support TARDICODE
asciilifeform: and zimbabwe locale
asciilifeform: and and and and
asciilifeform: EGYPTIAN HIEROGLYPHS
asciilifeform: etc.
phf: cat ought to be 8-bit clean, i suspect most of the bloat will come from gnu attempting all kinds of optimization. it probably optionally mmaps cat foo, etc.
asciilifeform: and properly-gendered-neutered comments.
asciilifeform: phf: cat is afaik 8bit clean nowhere.
asciilifeform: (certainly not on my gentoo boxes)
trinque: http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/bin/cat/cat.c
phf: well, i only have plan9 cat on my box and it's trully tiny, but then it's plan9 (just does read/write to buf[8192])
asciilifeform: http://cvsweb.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/bin/cat/cat.c?rev=1.26&content-type=text/x-cvsweb-markup << what an abortion !
asciilifeform: why, for instance, does 'cook_buf' exist?!!!!
asciilifeform: if (ch == '\n') {
asciilifeform: if (eflag && putchar('$') == EOF)
asciilifeform: break;
asciilifeform: ...
asciilifeform: does that look like 8bit clean to you, phf ?
asciilifeform: why does 'cat' CARE WHAT IS IN THE MOTHERFUCKING PIPE omfg
asciilifeform: who asked it ?!!!
phf: i've no idea what that cook_buf is supposed to do
asciilifeform: i can see in five seconds of looking, that it LOOKS at the chars !!
asciilifeform: why!!
asciilifeform: what possible business does it have doing so.
trinque: https://gist.github.com/pete/665971 << kinda neat
asciilifeform: trinque: ty, that's the logz link i wanted to put in this thread.
trinque: plan9 one is least offensive for sure
trinque: phf: what do you run plan9 userland on?
asciilifeform: it is the correct one.
phf: trinque: i very rarely explicitly run it, it's just there for when i want to read some c code. i sometimes gauge tool sanity by trying to do the same thing with plan9 tools. anyway it's plan9port running on mac 10.9.5
asciilifeform: http://plan9.bell-labs.com << how long has this been dead
phf: (it also has a nifty set of astro tools, that i use to chart the skys from time to time, because it's really easy to use and i don't know any better)
asciilifeform: and lol, NOKIA bell labs?!
asciilifeform: soooo lucent bought by nokia, and the latter now by microshit, which now owns the bones of bell labs.
asciilifeform: apparently.
phf: april 15, 2015 huh
trinque: they got it a .io for the better to hackernews you with
trinque: http://9p.io
phf: a graveyard
asciilifeform: plan9port-20140306.tgz source tree as of 2014-03-06 Mar 6, 2014 51.99MB
asciilifeform: pretty heavy if you ask me.
asciilifeform: can't speak for others, but i very much do not think i will produce a 52MB tgz of source with own hands before dead.
phf: lol you find flaws with ~everything~. it's utf-8 heavy, no reason to even look :p
asciilifeform: something like macsyma, which tried to encompass all of undergrad maths and some beyond, was what, 2MB zipped.
asciilifeform: obesity is not per se damning but i'd really love to know wtf there is justifiably 52 zipped MB of , in there.
phf: probably mercurial tree
asciilifeform: ugh
asciilifeform: i knew it -- liquishit.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1574940 << not that viable. couldn't get planescape torment to run.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 22:03 phf: well, we've already established that running everything on 2005 thinkpads is one viable option, but that's until supplies last
asciilifeform: phf: you were right, thing is ~117M unpacked, 53 of which is .hg idiocy.
asciilifeform: and 28M : ... guess it ...
asciilifeform: fonts.
phf: oh that makes sense, they use bitmap fonts
asciilifeform: 8.9M plan9port/postscript/font << apparently not only.
phf: i think that's a separate set for their own postscript implementation
mircea_popescu: brother.
asciilifeform: 13M plan9port/font/shinonome <<< i misread this as 'shitgnome' when it scrolled by and did a double take
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1574985 << cook the buffer. evidently!☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 22:31 phf: i've no idea what that cook_buf is supposed to do
trinque: in reading the source, the bsd folks crapped a bunch of things that should be in a sed-like into cat.
trinque: because reasons.
asciilifeform: because children who should have fallen into the lake and drowned.
asciilifeform: but did not, and grew up to program computer.
mircea_popescu: so computer fell in a lake and drowned.
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1574998 << funny how the us dept of whatever "private company" is the buyer of last resort for all these.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 22:35 asciilifeform: soooo lucent bought by nokia, and the latter now by microshit, which now owns the bones of bell labs.
asciilifeform: noshit
asciilifeform: though afaik 'bones of bell labs' is a small prize.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu probably could have bought it , and not even have to sell one mig.
asciilifeform: ('why' is separate q)
mircea_popescu: the undigested corn nibblets in used toilet are no sort of prize whatsoever ; except for bacteria.
asciilifeform: and i did think that these niblets had already gone through many an arse and had 0 way to do
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1575009 << i was gonna say, "fonts", but then you found on your own.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 22:42 asciilifeform: obesity is not per se damning but i'd really love to know wtf there is justifiably 52 zipped MB of , in there.
mircea_popescu: i learned a lot about fonts in my recent foray.
mircea_popescu: major nighthole, the fonts.
asciilifeform: having once attempted a font render engine, asciilifeform knows a bit also.
phf: metafont fits in head
mircea_popescu: phf even limiting the matter to ttfs (seriously, postcript is a whole extra layer of crazy) one quickly discovers some very serious conceptual problems. i don't even mean from a technological pov.
phf: now the question of whether or not designing a font language that simulates movement of calligraphic brushstrokes is a good idea..
asciilifeform: iirc truetype is a much heavier and more malodorous latrine than postscript
asciilifeform: (postscript is, approximately, a hypertrophied forth)
mircea_popescu: consider a simpler problem - you wish for whatever reason to "pick a good font". suppose your "good" is specified. you proceed to... look at fonts, selected by some criteria. eventually you are tired to the point your eyes blur, and haven't seen 5% of the available offerigs in "gothic medieval" from one place. there's more places. when are you done ?
mircea_popescu: a) you can not meaningfully say if you've found a "good" font, seeing how you can't say what portion of fonts youv'e actually seen ; b) the very notion of good font is impossible because in principle all possible fonts were made already in triplicate.
asciilifeform: the sane answer is that machine needs at most 2, fixed and variadic width, and with such a renderer that each can display at any scale without pixillation.
asciilifeform: the end.
mircea_popescu: so you are essentially looking at a collection of ink spots, until you fall over.
mircea_popescu: there is absoloutely no reason there should be more than maybe a dozen or so fonts. but there are, because "easy to make", and in spite of the rapidly diminishing returns of "making".
mircea_popescu: instead, those rapidly diminishing returns drive a diminishing of quality.
asciilifeform has 2 buttons on his keyboard, 1 opens term with 'small' fixed font, other with 'big'
mircea_popescu: so upon meditation, this becomes very much an application of the disaster of commons discussed in http://trilema.com/2016/honor-societies-vs-respect-societies-or-how-the-disaster-of-commons-sunk-the-western-world/ : in order for fonts to be useful, they'd have to be few. however, because it's costly to enforce and the individual interest is missaligned, the result is... many.
mircea_popescu: this is not so different from the problem of, eg, emacs. or plan9. or any software. or any fucking shop in a town, or a mall. why the fuck are there FIFTY fast food offering the same crap in the food court ?
asciilifeform: 'As more people with less commitment to quality and much less attention to detail got involved in writing it, its educational value diminished, too. It is like going to a library full of books that took 50 man-years to produce each, inventing a way to cut down the costs to a few man-months per book by copying and randomly improving on other books, and then wondering why nobody thinks your library full of these cheaper books is an in
asciilifeform: spiration to future authors.'
asciilifeform: ( http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3243717585684194@naggum.no.html )
mircea_popescu: it's not even that they're broken in tech terms. this shit is broken culturally.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform quite exactly.
asciilifeform: of all the plagues discussed in this thread, i'd say fonts are the mildest, it is at this very minute quite trivial to operate a machine with 2-3 fonts installed , with ~0 surgery
mircea_popescu: yes mildest but very fucking illustrative. at least to my eyes, perhaps due to personal history.
mircea_popescu: but there was ONE FUCKING FRAKTUR.
asciilifeform: i always assumed that it is a thing folks do when they come of age and build 'the' machine they will work their working years on, to sit down and burn away the shitfonts, among other
asciilifeform: incidentally 'scalable font' technology was imho a failure:
asciilifeform: not a single time that i bought a new panel with 2-3x the density of the old one, did i NOT have to change my emacs font
asciilifeform: and each time it was an unpleasant and quite pointless ritual.
mircea_popescu: heh
asciilifeform: and when i first saw screenshits of lispm, i was astonished at how readable the text was, on a box with ONE font in ONE size
asciilifeform: to the point that i got my hands on a rom and pulled that font, and still have it somewhere. unfortunately unusable on any display that i have...
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, the problem here isn't a discrete technological product, be it a font or a bridge ; nor the dysfunctional process that produced it, be it a broken cnc mill or lucent ; but altogether something more fundamental, where young man looking to "go west" decides the west is at the bottom of the lake and proceeds to dig.
asciilifeform: !!up gabriel_laddel
deedbot: gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: we are, intellectually speaking, in the bizarre situation of st. petersburg, a small town on the mississppi where for some bizarro enchantment reason all the boys decided the thing to do is dig up the river. and drowned there.
asciilifeform: speaking of which.
mircea_popescu: and the kids see the discarded shoes and floating hats and decide THEY SHOULD DIG TOO
gabriel_laddel: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1574912 < correct.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 21:13 ben_vulpes: betcha that's exactly what gabriel_laddel did
gabriel_laddel: I am presently trying to figure out why X11 fails to launch (segfault) on my (self hosting) livecd.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: on what iron
mircea_popescu: that sounds like a lot of fun.
gabriel_laddel: x220 thinkpad.
asciilifeform: leaves any log before death /
asciilifeform: ?
asciilifeform: and btw nobody ever seems to remember that one can ~debug~ segfault
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: yeah, will post in a few minutes. I am pretty sure that it is because a dependency that does not show up in lddtree --list is required.
gabriel_laddel: and right now I'm generating the most minimal possible livecd so I can see wtf is going on / speed of generation.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: what would I use... gdb?
phf: asciilifeform: he probably got ulimit -c 0 anyway, which as apparently sop on all kind linux
gabriel_laddel: (to debug)
asciilifeform: aha
phf: *all current
gabriel_laddel: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1574917 < I suffer from the disease of seeing 10s of millions of loot as reward for getting this working.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 21:15 asciilifeform: d00d suffers from the traditional disease of the 19yo 'night h4ck3r' , crippling tunnel vision
asciilifeform: if gabriel_laddel wants 10mil for a proggy that segfaults, he oughta move to washington
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: you've not seen the endgame for masamune yet.
asciilifeform: can get in on f35 etc
gabriel_laddel: people have blown hundreds of millions trying to make a "gui builder" atop QT, the web, swing etc.
gabriel_laddel: I can prototype something in 727 loc on clim that blows them all out of the water.
gabriel_laddel: creating graphical applications 10-100x faster than the competition is immensely useful.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel i'd loot a lot more than 10s of mns if i found a way to reliably get people to do the things that need done rather than the sexy things they want to do BEFORE they are old enough for their active life to be mostly behind them.
mircea_popescu: sadly, we don't generally get what we want.
jurov: gabriel_laddel: i heard same claims about tcl/tk. but none seven digit figures happened there i know of
gabriel_laddel: jurov: if you don't understand how (common) lisp differs from tcl/tk you've missed the boat intellectually.
mircea_popescu: sigh.
trinque: "he didn't have my winning mentality!"
asciilifeform: i find it interesting that nearly every d00d knows, or has met, or heard of, some naive sov emigre who was CERTAIN that he could make ZILLIONS!!! selling... poetry. or balloons. or, or.
asciilifeform: but never applies the memory to himself when thinking 'i will make 10 mil selling proggy'
trinque: it is at least advisable to study the way others fell before you.
asciilifeform: it is why gold rushes are destructive, they turn supposedly smart folk into drooling imbeciles
asciilifeform: sometimes, a generation later, even.
gabriel_laddel: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1574914 < I have my time wasted by people like Josh-I who will do everything... but something useful.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 21:13 asciilifeform: i currently have nfi what, if anything, he did other than bum around.
mircea_popescu: o.O
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: have you ever considered going into salvage business ?
asciilifeform: raising, e.g., sunken ww2 ships
asciilifeform: repair, sell, PR0F1T!11111
gabriel_laddel: I have not.
asciilifeform: before you disagree, consider, it is easier than fixing clim.
asciilifeform: the nazi subs are closer to working subs than clim+x11 is to lispm.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he doesn;t pick by easy.
gabriel_laddel: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1574916 < you need my patches else climacs will die on you constantly.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 21:15 trinque: is climacs usable to this degree?
trinque: your shithub is from last year
jurov: eh, leave gabriel be, at least he isn't working on doublebuffered Emacs FastSave(r)(tm)
trinque: where is the current vpatch ?
gabriel_laddel: trinque: no no no
mircea_popescu: jurov amusingly, lua actually DID realise mns in savings for petrobras. the authors however failed to capture any of it.
gabriel_laddel: trinque: the only way to distribute software is as a full self-hosting linux that can generate livecds of itself.
asciilifeform: trinque: all else aside, i want to know where the d00d's PUBKEY is, and wtf he thinks he is doing without one.
gabriel_laddel: my github is wayyy out of date.
trinque: fucking wrong.
mircea_popescu: trinque he's trying for appledom.
trinque: the only way is signed vpatches
trinque: so I know wtf it is! and by whom!
asciilifeform: it does not bother gabriel_laddel to be a ghost ? with no flesh ?
trinque: mircea_popescu: I can see it, but then I think I'm supposed to be the customer ?
phf: petrobras?
gabriel_laddel: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1574925 < if I could find *actual* stims I'd be done with this idiot adventure already.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 21:22 asciilifeform: i've wondered if he doesn't have a secret and dire problem with dope or similar.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'appledom' , though some folx seem to forget, in the words of jobs himself even, 'we shall take unfair advantage of the fact that we make the software AND THE HARDWARE'
asciilifeform: THE HARDWARE
mircea_popescu: phf yes, lua was build in-house by the brazillians trying to you know, be independent state.
phf: ooh
mircea_popescu: it didn't work kinda amusingly.
mircea_popescu: political history of lua / petro-brazil is a worthy pit to dig for the amateur cyber-historian of republican perspective.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: now i am very much curious, in what country, when, were 'actual stims' finally discovered ?
asciilifeform: i'd liek some also.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: I have been a little busy to generate a new key in an unsecure manner. It is on "the list"
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: I was referring to cocaine / meth.
trinque: lol!
asciilifeform: srsly, gabriel_laddel thinks 'hmm, i have problem, what is it, oh -- INSUFFICIENT METH'
asciilifeform: ??
mircea_popescu: hey, alf said it worked for erdos
asciilifeform: i think erdos never ate 100g even in his 75 yr working life
phf: well, as w burroughs demonstrated the problem is not dope, it's the lack of money to both buy dope and not have to shop to work the next day
mircea_popescu: you think ?
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: yes. When I am inbetween places to sleep for ~24 hours and need sleep it helps to be able to GET SOMETHING DONE.
mircea_popescu: it'd help more to sleep.
mircea_popescu: strictly, more.
gabriel_laddel: right now I consume ~pot of coffee a day.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: ever hear of idea of 'sleep debt'
asciilifeform: any stim worx by 'pressing gas pedal', this is later paid for.
asciilifeform: or we would all be mainlining .
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: yet. I end up going through these cycles where caffeine works to stave off sleep, then it doesn't, then I end up sleeping on a couch for 3 days, 12-14 hours a day.
gabriel_laddel: *yes.
asciilifeform: fwiw asciilifeform spent his student years like this.
asciilifeform: and does not think that it is purely coincidental that he has nothing interesting to show from those days software-wise.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: tried cocaine yet?
mircea_popescu: fwiw i never did this.
gabriel_laddel: do you know what it does for you?
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: nope.
trinque: I know what the 10yr of that looks like, secondhand
trinque: doesn't look like superhaxor...
gabriel_laddel: then I maintain you have no idea what it can and cannot do for you in my situation.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel this applies to, eg, licking mains socket also ? or just some classes of things ?
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel programs with cocaine ?
asciilifeform: ( freud wrote on cocaine, so it is probably possible ... )
phf: i wouldn't code on coke, or amphetamines for that matter, that hyperactivity narrows down your periphery thinking, which results in a lot of drawn out code
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: no?
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: I've no source for it, else, yes, I would.
trinque: all it's going to do is make some foolhardy thing seem like A WICKED SWEET IDEA BRAH
trinque: because chemically induced enthusiasm
phf: programmer's stone made a point long time ago that you need to be really fucking relaxed to write quality code
asciilifeform: dopes that make the eater happier to do repetitive / dumb task, are death to programmer.
asciilifeform: unless he is exceptionally disciplined .
asciilifeform: does gabriel_laddel consider himself exceptionally disciplined..?
mircea_popescu: or working for alcatel-lucent
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: let's put it this way -- I used cocaine, meth etc etc from 16-20 constantly, then not at all for 4+ years. Idk if that is disciplined or what, but I don't appear to have a problem with it, know what it does to me and think it would improve my current situation.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: if your current situation is 'just centimetre short of cracking $hardproblem' -- i can picture, it could
trinque: that adds some color to the situation
gabriel_laddel: ^ this.
asciilifeform: think -- afterburner on mig.
gabriel_laddel: it isn't even a hard problem, just tedious.
asciilifeform: but afterburner has to be paid for.
trinque: the conceit is that you're always a centimeter away
trinque: perpetually
trinque: that is what addiction is.
gabriel_laddel: gotta get this fuking livecd to work, and then smooth sailing
mircea_popescu: nobody is ever a centimetre short of cracking anything.
mircea_popescu: this is like being "centimetre short of gravitational capture". ain't how things work.
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: if you think shitlinux can be turned into 'smooth sailing', you have unplesant surprise coming.
mircea_popescu: trinque aha. entirely "ignis fatuus of the mind"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i must disagree, i was quite close to, e.g., 'v', for very long time before finally wrote it.
asciilifeform: but this is rare.
mircea_popescu: that centimetre is a length of log, nothing else.
asciilifeform: !!up gabriel_laddel
deedbot: gabriel_laddel voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: i find it interesting that (iirc) gabriel_laddel was mega-aficionado of my www, but will not take any of my advice nao.
mircea_popescu: well, every computer goes through two phases - first, programming, then execution.
asciilifeform: first ecstacy, then laundry.
asciilifeform: (uncle al schwartz)
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1575131 << guess for whom else: for nsa. they rolled in (yes) lua interpreter into whole series of trojans☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 23:28 mircea_popescu: jurov amusingly, lua actually DID realise mns in savings for petrobras. the authors however failed to capture any of it.
asciilifeform: and i dun think they paid the authors either
asciilifeform: i had glass of milk not long ago, and did not pay a cow iirc.
shinohai: It's back! https://www.reddit.com/r/btc/comments/5fswjx/bitcoin_classic_is_back/ xD
gabriel_laddel: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1574934 < lol. And how long have you spent working on this?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 21:46 phf: i've been low-key reviving cmucl's hemlock, can't use portable hemlock nor climacs for that matter, because neither have terminal versions. needless to say the process is slow and painful. like right now i'm trying to figure out why scrolling the buffer is slow slow you can see each individual line redrawing. also arrow keys don't work
gabriel_laddel: And how much is a plane ticket to SFO and back?
mircea_popescu: 1k ?
phf: hmm, around 400
gabriel_laddel: nah like 300
gabriel_laddel: fly out to SFO, bring a computer and we'll install masamune.
trinque: the mind will create elaborate narratives to justify addiction. never affected me directly, but I've seen it.
mircea_popescu: shinohai lol they redid their website. mmmkay.
trinque: not even, but especially "save the computing industry" quests
gabriel_laddel: phf: your time is worth how much per hour again?
trinque: ben_vulpes can confirm that I saw that one directly, with a former boss / drunk.
asciilifeform: where was BingoBoingo's bot thing now that it is so needed
shinohai: With a spiffy new website, it shows "development" being done AND NOT LOST CAUSE!
gabriel_laddel: contrast the previous two lines with: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-30#1574930☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-30 21:25 trinque: at any rate, if I were to invest time in climacs, that is time stolen from learning osdev to put a lisp interpreter on iron, which is time stolen from learning to fab silicon in a garage, which is time stolen from ...
trinque: !~step1
jhvh1: 1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol—that our lives had become unmanageable.
asciilifeform: theeere
BingoBoingo: !~step9
jhvh1: 9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.
mircea_popescu: shinohai the response of the redditards is so amusing. "there's TWO DIFFERENT DOOMED FORKS NOW!!! for you to choose from! because fragmentation is so totally the winning strategy!"
mircea_popescu: somehow the progre mind just can't get out of itself.
mircea_popescu: again and again and again the same stupidity it will do, because hey. all it got.
shinohai: This must have came out of Roger Ver's "Consensus Meeting" today
mircea_popescu: next i suppose they'll be "teaching the controversy" of whether shit or turd is the correct choice, and we'll continue ignoring them and they'll continue to pretend that we don't matter and their 5% is inexplicable at the same time. without any problem whatsoever in their absent minds, putin doesn't understand how the world works and influences the elections, sure, why not.
asciilifeform: i'd genuinely like to know how it came to be that 'get cocaine' came to rank above 'get pubkey' , 'get postbox' , 'get a flat' in gabriel_laddel's head
mircea_popescu has been having fun asking libtards "so why didn't YOU influence the elections then ?"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform cocaine is sweeter.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: I've spent no time on trying to source it.
gabriel_laddel: it isn't ranked above any of those.
asciilifeform: dunno, warm and dry bed is pretty sweet if you ask me
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel so you got an eta ?
phf: gabriel_laddel: well this is my avocation, so hacking on hemlock and installing masamune in sfo is cost equivalent. i'd make a trip just as a mini vacation, i'll see when's the closest i can swing it
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/11/reddit-ceo-huffman-takes-it-pao-right-in-the-kisser/ << Qntra - Reddit CEO Huffman Takes It Pao, Right In The Kisser
trinque: "hey man can I like, take a shower in your hotel room?"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in libertard cosmography, 'influence' is not a thing that one wields because smarter, stronger, or having more accurate model of reality, but because blessed by satan
phf: trinque: i go to burning man, the kind of people i accommodate....
gabriel_laddel: trinque: eh, if you're not willing to ask / do that to realize sane computing -- you don't want it at all.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it must be huh.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: Unfortunately no. I cannot predict how long it will take me to deal with idiot unix nonsense.