asciilifeform: ccmtacks: if you don't speak in next few hrs, i'll unrate

asciilifeform: i personally don't need silent remoras for anything.

asciilifeform: can speak now, and he'll read the log & maybe answer

asciilifeform: in other lulz, https://archive.is >> 502 Bad Gateway

asciilifeform: meanwhile, in world of koch, https://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/735840/11066f48be7a5f92 << >> http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/c1NUm/?raw=true

asciilifeform: 'Koch then moved into Elliptic Curve Cryptography (ECC), which he discussed at some length. RSA, he said, is not likely to stay secure for much longer without really large keys. Support for 4096-bit RSA keys has been in GnuPG for some time, but Koch contends that real security will require 16Kb keys; that makes keys, fingerprints, and signatures all unusably long, particularly for embedded devices and hardware security modules (HSMs)

asciilifeform: .' << didjaknow!

asciilifeform: 'So instead he's moving toward ECC ciphers, which are well-researched — more so than RSA, according to Koch. '

asciilifeform: '...the timings from the RSA HSM showed that a doubling of the key length increased the time required to sign nearly six-fold, and the time for verification even more. The timings from the Ed25519 HSM were agreeably small (all sub-50ms).' << this is precious

asciilifeform: and naturally no koch speech is complete without a 'the web of trust, he feels, is inherently broken. It is only explicable to geeks, and not to all of them, it publishes a global social graph, because signatures on keys imply physical meetings on known dates, and it doesn't scale.'

asciilifeform: it's the universal pattern. 1 of the half dozen or so basic hammers in their toolkit, along with 'unhappeneding', 'taiwaning', etc

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have spamlulz to raise to that, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/wlEbG/?raw=true

asciilifeform: plus another where 'Ukraine will be the first country in the world to legalize Bitcoin, Altcoins, Cryptobanks & ICO Trading. Be a part of history! Earn up to 20%...'

asciilifeform: the ukrs did in fact recently put on some public spectacle where they hosted 'up and coming' shitcoinists, ethertards, et al

asciilifeform: aha same idea

asciilifeform: i saw a little reportage, it was interestingly the ~exact same spamcarnival as seen prev in usa & elsewhere. oddly ~no homegrown orc scamola .

asciilifeform: they also have 'problem' of having been inoculated with mmm

asciilifeform: my current understanding is that the ethertardium etc folx today target moneyed orcs, rather than homo-mmmicus .

asciilifeform: phf: curious -- in what light brought up

asciilifeform: lol!

asciilifeform: asciilifeform's relatives are ~all elderly emigre type and read volkischer beobachter and so naturally 100% of mention bitcoin is 'hey didja hear, that bitcoin thing finally HACKED!11!! soon valueless, president of imf proclaimed!' etc snoar

asciilifeform: phf: it was part of the fiction where 'no we didn't surrender to americans, your rape is a traditional ancient greek, dontchaknow, rape style, nuffin to do with usa'

asciilifeform: mas futuro!11

asciilifeform: for some reason folx always go around 'i will get rich'-ing and somehow never 'i will find my quicklime pit'

asciilifeform: !~later tell mircea_popescu i had a thought re your http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-06#1722036 algo : instead of one stream generator, have N independent ones (each with own seed, and not necessarily all same hash fn) running in parallel, xor together. every rsagram changes a seed in ONE of these at a time. strength is bought by sending rsagrams moar often ☝︎

asciilifeform: oh hey

asciilifeform: it buys you same thing http://btcbase.org/log/2016-02-10#1402315 buys you -- strength of the strongest one ☝︎

asciilifeform: also eliminates the problem where there is a known relation between adjacent pieces of ciphertext where plaintext is known

asciilifeform: ( which you have if i+1 = H(i) )

asciilifeform: you can trivially prove that, for crypto break (vs e.g. side chans) enemy must break either a) all of the rsagrams b) all of the hashes

asciilifeform: they ain't hashed together, no

asciilifeform: each one in particular runs as mircea_popescu's old algo does. the otps, however, are xored to form the otp that gets used in the end.

asciilifeform: depends how breaks neh

asciilifeform: why ?

asciilifeform: you used N different functions neh.

asciilifeform: who said i had 1 much less n to offer with this recipe. i learn from the masters!11

asciilifeform: let's take however the variant where they all use same type of hash (e.g. keccak) but with independently FG-generated seeds. you still remove the i+i==H(i) known-relation problem.

asciilifeform: *i+1

asciilifeform: grr

asciilifeform: mno

asciilifeform: different conjecturedhardproblem.

asciilifeform: if mircea_popescu has the proof that 'all the same' quite a few folx would be interested to read.

asciilifeform: as it would be a p ?= np proof.

asciilifeform: i dun buy the 'no one has proven rsa to be hard so it dun matter how to implement it, let's use wet noodles and dried shit' argument. ☟︎

asciilifeform: after 3 generations of dried dog shit, quite conceivably the last actual crytoanalyst ate nagant 30yrs ago.

asciilifeform: proposed mechanism is applicable to 'stacking' any but the most screamingly rubbish prng. elementarily if the seeds are independent ( and they are, having been birthed from FG, ideally even from separate physical units ) the value of the streams at whatever index are also uncorrelated; and the xor will have period no shorter than of the longest period prng.

asciilifeform: ftr i dun particularly like this style of mechanism. it is suggested solely as continuation of the theme from linked thread, where 'make best of a cpu-poor situation with existing algos'

asciilifeform: proposed item is that if using 1 stream, knowledge of a segment of plaintext gives you something valuable to work with; if using 2+ -- nothing ☟︎

asciilifeform: i dun get it

asciilifeform: knowing xor tells you 0 about what went into the xor.

asciilifeform: exactly that

asciilifeform: see the otp thread

asciilifeform: 1 xor 0 -> 1; 0 xor 1 -> 1; 0 xor 0 -> 0; 1 xor 1 -> 0 in case forgot.

asciilifeform: ground rule of crypto is that enemy has access to ciphertext and the occasional bit of plaintext ( guessed. ) if he has access to inside of your box we ain't doing cryptology, it is called perimeter defense

asciilifeform: 'every time i add two numbers i get diff answer; arithmetic IS BROKEN'

asciilifeform: there's no 'plaintext of stream'

asciilifeform: the streams exist solely to be xored together into a pad

asciilifeform: which then gets used as otp per mircea_popescu's original algo.

asciilifeform: i'ma borrow method of apeloyee and post a pseudocode at some point, might become clearer.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in your gedankenattack, to what items does enemy have access, and how did he get it ?

asciilifeform: it does tho

asciilifeform: always and for whatever system

asciilifeform: if 'enemy is a telepath and can access anything', you don't have crypto, you have eating pistol or surrender

asciilifeform: you gotta say which x in particular .

asciilifeform: but this is nonsense. he has x because he is able to - sometimes - infer it from a partial knowledge of q, because relation between x and q stream was 1:1. with multiple generators, it is now many to many.

asciilifeform straps on gas mask

asciilifeform: i thought 'etsy' et al were long ago colonized by folx farming out grunt labour to pakistani etc

asciilifeform: and 0 to do with american chixen knitting

asciilifeform: (0 reason why pakifarm cannot use name, mug, an' styling of a chix )

asciilifeform: can also sum how much they 'dun make' at nasdaq; and while we're at it, how much fish they don't have at the proverbial sov fish counter

asciilifeform: how much meat -- at meat counter.

asciilifeform: lollers

asciilifeform: 'So don't be fooled by post count, age, whatever. Fine. What are you fooled by?' << lol

asciilifeform tried, and failed, to distinguish linked site from the usual inmate-fat-powered spamulag

asciilifeform: shitcoin at ~0.06 incidentally.

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i run into these continuously

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: sorta like comp market in 1995 was superficially similar to walking into one from '85, except for the detail where all of the 'different comps you can CHOOSE from' run microshit on x86

asciilifeform: 'wouldja like a dell or a hp'

asciilifeform: in other 'we'll steal from tmsr, why not, and WEDIDITFIRST' lulzies, https://archive.is/kvyXQ

asciilifeform: ( same derps as hosted the koch talk linked earlier, loox like )

asciilifeform: various lulz from same, e.g. https://archive.is/D1gJA >> ' McHardy first approaches a company to tell it that its product is not in compliance; he makes a modest demand (say €6,000-7,000) for his engineering time. He also asks the company to acknowledge and sign his cease-and-desist order; under German law that turns it into a contract. Once that has been done, sometime later McHardy will come back with other products that are also

asciilifeform: not in compliance and require that the company pay a penalty for each, which can total to €500,000 or more'

asciilifeform: twist : gpl-flavoured

asciilifeform: in very other lulz, at most recent count 'p' stands at 3.2kloc, of which 2k is ffa ( this is inclusive of comments, tests, and commented alt-incarnations of certain routines, as discussed in l0gz )

asciilifeform: ( for comparison, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-08#1680705 ) ☝︎

asciilifeform: afaik yer either in 'it's astrology, so hire cheapest' mode or yer not - tertium non datur

asciilifeform: the 1 thing we have from von neumann's proof, however, other than otp per se, is the xor primitive, which provably composes N ~independent~ items of variant hardnesses, into the hardness of hardest input.

asciilifeform: if the number of generators is odd, the xor cannot make you worse off than before even if somehow they all became identical. however if even 1 of them is genuinely independent, you get the strength of that one. is what the 'ratchet' aspect of the xor is about.

asciilifeform: with 1 you get fixed known relationship between adjacent stream chunks.

asciilifeform: ( tangentially, asciilifeform disrecommends the use of even numbers of XORed rngs in any system. incl. FGs. if enemy can somehow contrieve to tie the wires together, you will end up with 0,0,0.... )

asciilifeform: ( 'but what about the even # of subunits in fg itself? ' -- that's what the red lamp, and much of the internal logic, is about )

asciilifeform: !!up BHopkins

asciilifeform: BHopkins: hello ?

asciilifeform: who might you be, BHopkins ?

asciilifeform: i was about to say 'i've never heard of a zinx' but it was in linked item earlier

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-10-11#1724023 << ☝︎

asciilifeform: BHopkins: out of curiosity, which vertical 'had similar issues' ?

asciilifeform: i thought that described ~whole of www

asciilifeform: they stood a chance?!

asciilifeform still not sure how (other than ceremonial aspect) this mechanism beats sending coins the old-fashioned way, from own actual node -- but it's still neat that trinque built a thing sturdy enough to run with coin

asciilifeform: could achieve this without hotwallet, by signing proclamations. but yes this is convenient.

asciilifeform: shinohai: ~same thing sank yahoo's ad service few yrs back

asciilifeform: ( somehow, not hosting arbitrary js/flasholade isn't an option for these, go figure )

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i guess it was decided that they have arses like anybody, ergo compatible

asciilifeform: loox like usa simply aligning with classic su ( and german ) tradition, where there's 1 org

asciilifeform: ( 'pioneers' and 'hitlerjugend' respectively )

asciilifeform: lol!

asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: pretty sure it happened before

asciilifeform: it's even happened that folx mis-point 'this end toward enemy', lol

asciilifeform: http://bunkerseeds.com/images/MON50/mon50.jpg << oblig

asciilifeform: could be anywhere, item is still made

asciilifeform: american original has much funnier text, http://i.imgur.com/Occdk.jpg

asciilifeform: according to legend, inscription originates with vietnam, where malingerers would eat small bits

asciilifeform: in very very other olds, http://jeanjacques.lacrampe.free.fr/webada/doc/gnat/gcc_10.html#SEC316 << -fpreserve-control-flow flag indeed appears to work ( but only up to -O1 )