tmsr - Log 2016-08-19

ben_vulpes: phf: tbqh i was considering setting up a trilema style cookie l2 could get their hands on that would keep pastes around

mircea_popescu: "Nothing about McMurdo improves with proximity. Up close, the station looks like a cross between an oil refinery and a struggling community college." << now i have what to link to when people ask me why i can't be arsed to antarctica.

asciilifeform: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-37114313 << meanwhile, in the muppet theatre..

asciilifeform: 'No one had been back to the Pole since the Amundsen and Scott expeditions of 1911, and it was the obvious prestige location in Antarctica. ' << nazi ahnenerbe begs to differ.

asciilifeform wasn't there.

asciilifeform: http://everything2.com/title/Antarctic+hygiene << classic re antarctica (whole series of posts by same fella, eons ago)

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what's neuschwabenland doing in the atlas then ?

asciilifeform: if 'didn't happen'

asciilifeform: ahahahaha lolk.

asciilifeform: "Россия — родина слонов" (tm) (r)

asciilifeform: mats: ever read g. polya's b00kz ?

asciilifeform: polya had a mega-classic for schoolboys, 'how to solve it', but lesser-known 'patterns of plausible inference' (2 volume thing)

asciilifeform: the latter probably more interesting to adult

phf: mircea_popescu: having hard time finding relevant bits, since thread diverged many times. a long standing criticism of dpaste was "all these pastes are going to make log not as useful", when ben_vulpes released his wotpaste there was discussion about expiration and how to mitigate it. fwiw i don't remember where it went from there

mircea_popescu: they're two not overlapping tools. not all pastes necessarily end up in log

mircea_popescu: something should be permanented for having being in the log, not for having been a paste

phf: right right, so one option was to scan the log for all wotpaste's and only preserve those

phf: of course another option is to add link downloader, to btcbase for example, but it's a can of worms, that i guess i will have to open..

mircea_popescu: nothing specific about paste or otherwise. if i click on a link in an old article by that marciej dude, it comes out 404. which sucks.

mircea_popescu: baring you actually being exciting from writing.. a... browser, i guess, the solution was to just archive.is all links and save the resulting zips

mircea_popescu: i mean... it won't work for alf, but maybe if he needs it a kind soul will unzip the files for him in the magic way

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that zip contained nothing but rubbish.

asciilifeform: as far as i could tell.

mircea_popescu: your tool failed to break it up into files, just dumped everything into one.

asciilifeform: see log again.

asciilifeform: i even posted the thing.

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-21#1508479 << ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-07-21 22:30 asciilifeform: and has NOTHING in common with the jpegs or html in mircea_popescu's 32k zip

asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/pub/turds/1.zip http://www.loper-os.org/pub/turds/2.zip << samples.

asciilifeform: (as found on jul. the 21st)

asciilifeform: see whole thread, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-21#1508474 . ☝︎

asciilifeform: archive.today literally served me a wholly unrelated thing as what mircea_popescu gets.

mircea_popescu: be this as it may ; if it becomes a standard it'll either continue until we figure it out or mysteriously stop.

asciilifeform: via whatever client.

asciilifeform: (i even fired up a winblowz box)

asciilifeform: nope. same type of item.

asciilifeform: it redirects to same.

mircea_popescu: i suppose it makes more sense than the dudes who chip in so that a model version of themselves bangs some chick on camera...

mircea_popescu: re the getting diverged phf , i dunno what you answered to 2nd part of http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-17#1523000 ? ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-08-17 05:52 mircea_popescu: o btw phf, you aware of http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-22#1508571 ? you never said anything. more generally, do you see the value in a ticket set for a111 on mod6 's thing ?

mircea_popescu: and in unrelatred lulz, reading through old logs re aws, we find http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-24#1249839 ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2015-08-24 01:51 asciilifeform blew an astonishing bag of usd when ran 'phuctor' on aws - and this in its mostly-useless and almost-trafficless first year and half of life

asciilifeform: aha, it burned through a few hundy

asciilifeform: largely by occupying disk, iirc.

mircea_popescu: basically the "problem" idiots like paul whatshisface are imagining docker solves is entirely a business construct : idiots gave their neck away to "cloud" companies because "it will be cheaper", exactly on the model that produced "export jobs to china" ☟︎

mircea_popescu: then once the transition was complete and ensconced in culture, it suddenly... wasn't cheaper anymore

mircea_popescu: and the sort of solution they contemplate is, of course, wait for it, drumroll.. MORE OF THE SAME.

asciilifeform: aws, recall, was for its entire existence marketed via 'giveaways', teasers, the usual fool-snares.

mircea_popescu: i'm entirely at a loss as to what'd it be useful, outside of what Framedragger tried to use it for - which it apparently fervently defends itself against using for

mircea_popescu: (an interesting pattern this - most us made artefacts feverishly defend themselves against being used in the one way they might make economic sense. starting with the citizenry, which somehow doesn't service arab cock all day.)

asciilifeform: every inhabitant of usa eats no fewer than 9000 arab cocks per yer, at petrol station.

mircea_popescu: as any whore will tell you, a blowjob doesn't count if you don't make cocksucker eye contact.

phf: ah, i was away during that discussion and forgot to comment. i have it in my todo, but i need to testrun before commenting. it's obviously a good idea, i wish we had archive.is in-wot though

mircea_popescu: the task of getting html rendering to work on sanely instrumented platform is ...

mircea_popescu: the big dark secret nobody in the "we, the web community" wants to mention is that html5 essentially failed under cognitive load. they just couldn't do it.

mircea_popescu: wasn't a matter of choice ; much like "we'll fart our way to mars" isn't a matter of choice.

phf: i went through the whole exercise for my lisp based instapaper clone back in a day, so i have some of that code around. but it was neither efficient nor reliable (for example, closure html a lisp based html parser fails in all kinds of surprising ways when you throw random web at it)

mircea_popescu: right. obviously something that will render hello world can be written ad hoc right here ; a standards-compliant renderer is perhaps a decent season project at a middle college (if they still exist)

ben_vulpes has https://www.gigablast.com/ on the experiments list once these godforsaken hippies get their act together and card me at the dc

ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-19#1524957 << there is a notion, pernicious to the small-time and novice operators, that virtualization providers save time in infrastructure management. it's very much a "i just want to" write the software attitude. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-08-19 01:08 mircea_popescu: basically the "problem" idiots like paul whatshisface are imagining docker solves is entirely a business construct : idiots gave their neck away to "cloud" companies because "it will be cheaper", exactly on the model that produced "export jobs to china"

ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-08-24#1249839 << the other way of looking at this is that "if hosting costs are a serious/worrisome part of your bottom line as a web/mobile app operator either you fucked up and badly on provisioning, or you don't make enough money" ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2015-08-24 01:51 asciilifeform blew an astonishing bag of usd when ran 'phuctor' on aws - and this in its mostly-useless and almost-trafficless first year and half of life

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: was lunch money op.

asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: point was that aws only ~feels~ cheap

asciilifeform: like naggum's proverbial flying bathtub 'feels fast'.

ben_vulpes: "oh wait costs in db are escalating, quickly get in there and learn the arcane aws-specific optimizations!"

ben_vulpes: "aaaaa now we're serving too much shit from disk, quickly, put cloudfront in so we're not charged egress fees"

a111: Logged on 2015-12-21 05:15 asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-12-2015#1349033 << 'programmers get off on complexity the way weight lifters get off on weight'

mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes quite exactly. a sort of "when soviet army provisions jets, it provisions tupolevs!" what the fuck difference does this make to wage slave trying to get from point a to point b ?

mircea_popescu: but the whole fucking shebang is "feeling like a trader". hence what they want is "google infrastructure for the rest of us". because totally, google first built the infrastructure and THEN was google. not the other fucking way around, first came up with page rank and then had to burn the cash in some accountant-permissible way

mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes> it is the *perfect* make-work machine. << seems an exact description.

Framedragger: “Cern does not condone this type of spoof, which can give rise to misunderstandings about the scientific nature of our work.” bhah

Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524440 << yeah okay okay; but i don't know what to tell the guy, what's going on here. "lotsa smart people, it's actually a republic, rewriting the world, slowly. also software" ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-08-18 18:05 mircea_popescu: https://circleci.com/blog/it-really-is-the-future/ << a week later, retraction.

mircea_popescu: Framedragger moments of clarity are definitionally momentary ; anyway, tell him it's a terrorist organisation.

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PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524494 << If you want something standard, like a round bottom flask or a condenser, then yes it is much cheaper to get mass produced stuff. But sometimes you want something unique, like a round bottom flask with a condenser coming off at a particular angle and connected by a frit to another chamber and a couple gass line nipples, then it is much cheaper to build yourself ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-08-18 16:33 thestringpuller: PeterL: I asked a friend who blows glass for a living, and he said nowadays it's more expensive to blow science-ware by hand than to get the mass produced stuff...

mircea_popescu: PeterL the problem with build-yourself, at least in my brief experience [of managing other people trying to do it] is that you end up with nonstandard parts, which is an utter pain because a) you may get results you can't later reproduce, which is the bane of all time and eternal sadness and b) it becomes very difficult to correctly model your thing for prototyping/scaling/whatnot. because that little unintended glass lip/lit

mircea_popescu: i suspect this is the main reason people moved off it, not so much cost or anything.

PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524504 << in lab we had two flavors of glass, I think it was borosilicate and non-borosilicate (useful based on whether or not you are trying to measure certain metal ions), and we distinguished between them by looking at the edge, one was clear and the other was kinda blue-green ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-08-18 16:43 asciilifeform: the pyrex switcheroo was enabled by the fact of the two glasses being visually indistinguishable.

mircea_popescu: PeterL he's just being difficult, not like boron doesn't have well known absorbtion/emission lines. you can either heat it and see ; or else shine a tuned laser on it and see.

PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524397 << this thing is informally known as a MFP - if you flip it upside down it looks just like a "man fucking pig" (and grad students find humor in the weirdest things) ☝︎☟︎

a111: Logged on 2016-08-18 15:32 thestringpuller: i'm doing it for refining "essential Oils", i'm going to buy a short path fractional distillation set

mircea_popescu: so on other news, i am writing teh republic's "cia factbook", and on the matter of gdp i would like to have an estimate of the "fair market value of the total time donated to republic during 2015" in the estimation of everyone involved. detailed is better, but nothing over a page omg. ☟︎☟︎

mircea_popescu: specifically pinging trinque phf bingoboingo mod6 asciilifeform davout jurov ben_vulpes mike_c

mircea_popescu: and in other "mp's handwritten cia factbook will definitely be saner than the original" news, check out the ru entry : "A combination of falling oil prices, international sanctions, and structural limitations pushed Russia into a deep recession in 2015, with the GDP falling by close to 4%. Most economists expect this downturn will continue through 2016."

PeterL: are you going to do all the countries or just TMSR? (or is that the only country?)

mircea_popescu: as far as fictions go, i'm also not going to do alice's wonderland or what have you.

asciilifeform: meanwhile, in the land of lulz, http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/19/twitter_suspends_235000_violent_extremism_accounts

asciilifeform: 'Twitter has announced it has blocked a further 235,000 accounts that promoted “violent extremism.” The avian network's new report comes a week after it succesfully defended a case in which parents of a man slain by ISIS accused it of supporting terrorists. Twitter says it's increasingly using automated means to identify and crush accounts that promote violence and terrorism and will, as of next year, detail those efforts in its

asciilifeform: transparency reports.'

asciilifeform: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/08/19/john_oneill_sexual_risk_order_it_consultant_insane_sec_ban << also lulzy, from same rag

asciilifeform: 'Homeless John O'Neill, 45, must tell police 24 hours in advance even if he only plans on “kissing” or engaging in “sexually explicit conversation” – but has never been convicted of any criminal offence.'

asciilifeform: 'O'Neill is banned from using the internet via any device which police cannot later check. He must also reveal the PIN for his phone to police so they can trawl through it at will. The terms of the SRO mean he must physically hand over for inspection any electronic devices he uses, sometimes every other day. He is also banned from using or owning “forensic wiping software”. He was cleared of rape following a retrial – in which

asciilifeform: he said the verdict was unanimous – last November.'

asciilifeform: 'Sexual Risk Orders are a civil order which became available to police and the National Crime Agency in early 2015. Police employees can apply to a magistrate to impose the order. The law allows police to apply for the punishment to be imposed in cases where the defendant is found not guilty – merely being in a case where the court “deals with” you as a defendant is enough. Its automatic minimum duration is two years and it can

asciilifeform: be renewed indefinitely.'

asciilifeform: rule britannia!111111

asciilifeform: bleeding edge test lab for usaschwitz.

asciilifeform: i read it as ref to the bird logo

asciilifeform: elsewhere: https://archive.is/pz0kL << massive compendium of old noose (re recent tor psyops.)

asciilifeform: 'On April 13th, Appelbaum delivered a speech he self-described as "journalistic suicide" at the Logan Center for Investigative Journalism (CIJ) Symposium (where he is an advisor) in Berlin, Germany. During the speech he outlined how he and other investigative journalists had been betrayed by establishment journalists, particularly at The Guardian which he called the "shittiest publication in the English language," to the point where

asciilifeform: their lives were at risk.'

asciilifeform: in may '16 - the demolition derby.

mircea_popescu: leaving aside the specifics, here's the core issues of the matter : want it or not, the world will come to rest randomly on the shoulders of tiny organisations. the fact that something like an obscure newspaper (50 or so people, on a good day) is made of the human equivalent of pressed shitboard will not, and does not, prevent the whole damned 5bn ton globe from landing on them.

mircea_popescu: consequently, the only possible avenue, is the creation of STRONG small organisations.

mircea_popescu: it's unclear whether, say, tmsr would currently be able to withstand the sort of pressure. i am however hopeful that by the time it has to, it will.

asciilifeform: what's the 'pressure' in question consist of ? folks being rounded up an' gassed ?

mircea_popescu: life, you know ? "the call of life" has become extremely sharp and disproportionately large.

mircea_popescu: what'd be country boy of 1700 called to do ? maaaybe sit on a jury ? defend a meter of trench ?

mircea_popescu: then the russians had to revolutionize, an utterly modernist phenomenon, suddenly country bumpkins found themselves "minister of agriculture"

mircea_popescu: you think stalin or anyone there is PROUD about the whole michurin affair ? no they aren't.

asciilifeform: i still dun see the pressure in 'here are the files'

asciilifeform: post it all in 1,000,001 places, signed.

mircea_popescu: anyway, the $standard_strategy = "it won't happen to me"."oh shit"."it didn't happen to me"

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and then mp pops about 5500 "agents" and 7500 irate women are looking for you, not to mention there's 10k+ sons who swear vendetta.

asciilifeform: 'pressure' is when folks are being led to the woodchipper and asked nicely to say where the partizans are hiding.

mircea_popescu: that you don't share a specific one does not mean you're incapable of having them. moreover, from experience, everyone gets his own, custom-tailored.

asciilifeform: is 'max nazi blood' insufficient ethical algorithm ?

asciilifeform: nato and the bootlicks.

mircea_popescu: anyway, as per ancient aristotle observation, anything is sufficient algo, even blank string.

asciilifeform: this also.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is myopic, because the nato isn't long of this world. what do you do once they;re gone ?

asciilifeform: you grind down the rubble, so nothing like it can ever reappear ?

asciilifeform: mop up the vendetta sons ?

asciilifeform: plenty of work for 200 years.

asciilifeform: lel french also thought 'hey, simple'

asciilifeform: no, not simple. but mircea_popescu did appear to ask for an algo, and the very notion results in such simplification.

mircea_popescu: i did not ask. i pointed out to you that "my algo solves this problem" is no solution to the halting problem in the general.

asciilifeform: the only algo that 'solves all problems, permanently' is eating nagant.

mircea_popescu: for that matter, halting problem is an excellent model for this, because it can always be phrased as "well, am i done thinking and ready to act or will think some more ?"

asciilifeform: most folks not only do not have this problem, but 'think? what's that'

asciilifeform: oh this turd is full of lelz,

asciilifeform: 'Auernheimer replied to Patterson's thread, saying "plagiarism is a more serious allegation than rape to me personally... The bug Jake stole from Len was awesome. Once in a lifetime kind of stuff. Irreplaceable." American journalist Quinn Norton later also claimed involvement in plagiarism disputes with Appelbuam. They have yet to directly specify, or present evidence of, what work he plagiarised. In Patterson's case she probably won

asciilifeform: 't ever do so, since she's already told Leidl (who challenged how she defined 'plagiarism') that "when research that gets stolen was only communicated about orally, there is no paper trail." Kaminsky, one of the alleged victims, was also unwilling to provide details. Cryptocat developer Nadim Kobeissi has also argued with Appelbaum in the past with regards to attribution rights, but outside of one tweet on the subject has stayed out

asciilifeform: of the debate because he "thought a bit more about things and decided I had better things to emotionally invest myself in than an angry riot."'

mircea_popescu: almost anything is more serious than "using the tools in the manner they were designed without the alleged owner's permission".

asciilifeform: i find the the choice of weapon in this firing squad interesting.

mircea_popescu: i can't be arsed to follow. i trust we're satisfied with that quote for the entire thing ?

asciilifeform: the 'plagiarism' thing appears to be based on usg's psychological portrait of the schmuck

asciilifeform: recall chowdhra or what was his name

asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-11-15#1324569 << ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2015-11-15 01:17 mircea_popescu: i have this pile of very secret derpage here including the very expert "profile" of some random derp explaining how an elderly, principled gentleman is perhaps going to react crazily to the crass injustice of this entire scheme.

a111: Logged on 2015-11-15 01:11 mircea_popescu: maybe there's something juicy in there like you know, plagiarism (for sure there is), and like mathematica stealing of stuff from people (almost willing to bet)

asciilifeform: anyway rest of the dump consists of details re ready-baked 'victims' who, when pressed, would zip lips and pout, organizations from which a. was expelled, etc.

asciilifeform: most prolific bake yet.

asciilifeform: i can picture hitler 'we made 20 rapees for assange - great. now let's try 200 ...'

asciilifeform: https://pad.riseup.net/p/87Mazw3Jsdfe_pm/timeslider#11 << multistory lul tower. for instance, i had no idea what is 'riseup' until its pgp keys began to pop. ☟︎☟︎

asciilifeform: the lolmonkey in question is, as i gather, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-05-18#1468111 ☝︎

asciilifeform: https://blog.patternsinthevoid.net/fbi-harassment.html << her www.

asciilifeform: let's posit that not.

asciilifeform: the choice of victim, for the machine, is very peculiar imho.

asciilifeform: just as the appelbaum thing.

asciilifeform: dafuq are their skins worth to anybody ?

asciilifeform: the (much-exaggerated) sufferings of greenwald come to mind.

asciilifeform: is this basic game of 'we'll poshly auto-de-fe idiots, but quietly ignore actual opponents, see if we can breed the former to displace all oxygen for the latter' ?

mircea_popescu: for all you know it could be parochial "i've heard of thieves but not the plague, hence should build thief wall not plague wall"

mircea_popescu: in other lulz : russia and japan still technically in ww2, never agreed on kuriles partition

asciilifeform: and north, south kr, never signed a peace likewise.

asciilifeform: plenty of this.

asciilifeform: as well as of http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-01#1511945 ( e.g., taiwan ) ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-08-01 00:44 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-01#1511937 << oh, "color revolutions" dun work ? tell you what, we'll steal your country's exports and with the proceeds finance an alt-country we'll pretend is realy your country. ha-ha!

asciilifeform: to round off the appelbaum thread, https://archive.is/2mePQ << lolcow with opposite electric charge.

asciilifeform reads.

mircea_popescu: rotten shitstack collapsed like a rotten shitstack the moment as much as a mild breeze of lolrape blew its way.

asciilifeform: or is this in re appelbaum

mircea_popescu: "tor project", aka a bunch of nobodies posturing loudly, tolerated as temporary willing astroturf cover for a nsa project.

asciilifeform: i don't know the fella personally, but afaik he has not seppukued

mircea_popescu: the willingness of the idiots to be used as condoms is nothing short of staggering, even if it comes up in logs periodically.

asciilifeform: ( but also has not burned down any usg infrastructure )

asciilifeform: ah 'shitstack collapsed' was re tor.

mircea_popescu: compare an' contrast the whole "oh, mp really really needs bitbet funds so he'll retract de facto" "oh wait, shit omg" campaign this spring.

mircea_popescu is looking forward to the "mp raped me and wrote messages to aliens on my tits" campaigns to come, once the present generation of herders that earned a clue in battle retire and a new generation of socialmedia tards / paul biggars takes over the "full spectrum dominance" idiotmobile.

asciilifeform: eh, mircea_popescu preemptively turned that knob to '11' with own hands, if it is turned any further it will probably come off.

mircea_popescu: incidentally, what is with the redditarded generation, that whenever they have to do one of these important, man-talks-to-world, "soul searching" pieces they always come off as utter dweebs speaking in a dreary monotone about really trivial, boring minutia ?

mircea_popescu: ever since http://trilema.com/2014/the-all-american-asshole-in-his-own-words-with-my-own-notes/ i can't shake the feeling all these, age irrespective, gender irrespective, are really the same community-college educated, chronic masturbator.

mircea_popescu: schmuck seriously thinks "creating a website" "is beyond terrible". really ? and hanging her by her own fallopian tubes is what then ? beyond-beyond-horrible ?

asciilifeform: ;;later tell mod6 imho 'vdiff' ought to zap 'minus' changes in cases where an entire file turns 'FALSE' (absent) - they take up space for no reason, given as we display a hash in the --- entry. what do you think ?

asciilifeform: ;;later tell mod6 i came to this by attempting vdiff of gnupg 1.4.10 vs their .21 release from wednesday, and ending up with an unreadable 8MB turd, they moved/rm'd a buncha files. ☟︎

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ever use an auto-ranging instrument, e.g., post-1980s voltmeter ?

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what you are seeing is same effect.

asciilifeform: the moment derp's universe begins to include fallopian hangings, perspective will readjust.

mircea_popescu: mno. because after being used for microamps, the item reverts to miliamps when exposed to miliamps.

mircea_popescu: that's the objection. they try to import terminology born of 9gag and at home on 9gag into actual discourse about their actual lives.

asciilifeform: did i miss something, she is in your cellar hanging right now, or wut.

mircea_popescu: "But what happened is so unfair to so many people, in so many ways, that I cannot keep this for me." << this counts as "i raise my arms, to either kill or be killed, but to no longer continue this life"

asciilifeform: ahahahaha, this is gold:

asciilifeform: ~/gnupg-1.4.10 $ grep -i -r weimer *

asciilifeform: AUTHORS:Florian Weimer <fw@deneb.enyo.de> Assigns past and future changes

asciilifeform: ChangeLog: * README: Some typo fixes from Florian Weimer, and bump version

asciilifeform: doc/ChangeLog: * gpg.sgml: Small typo fixes by Florian Weimer.

asciilifeform: g10/ChangeLog: --default-cert-expire options. Suggested by Florian Weimer.

asciilifeform: g10/ChangeLog: the new iobuf_skip_reset. Orginal patch by Florian Weimer.

asciilifeform: g10/ChangeLog: Reported by Florian Weimer.

asciilifeform: g10/ChangeLog: Florian Weimer.

asciilifeform: g10/ChangeLog: ones being refreshed. Noted by Florian Weimer.

asciilifeform: mpi/ChangeLog: not stored in w. Suggested by Florian Weimer.

asciilifeform: THANKS:Florian Weimer Florian.Weimer@rus.uni-stuttgart.de

asciilifeform: util/ChangeLog: Weimer. Added new argument PARTIAL.

asciilifeform: util/ChangeLog: Florian Weimer.

asciilifeform: ^ in case anyone did not know this.

asciilifeform: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/b385a4e6-836d-4829-b157-d157b09c5a4f/?raw=true << and the drepper grep, is too long to take up log space !

asciilifeform: mod6 !

mod6: <asciilifeform> imho 'vdiff' ought to zap 'minus' changes in cases where an entire file turns 'FALSE' (absent) - they take up space for no reason, given as we display a hash in the --- entry. what do you think ? << ah... ok. let me think about the impact of such a change here.

asciilifeform: mod6: in traditional diff, turning a deleted turd into a massive ball of minus is arguably necessary, to prevent patch from applying to arbitary item

asciilifeform: mod6: but in the case of vdiff, there is no use for it, it simply makes patch unreadable.

asciilifeform: (incidentally i have nfi whether gnu patch util will apply a patch that simply 'FALSE'-s a deleted file, without the minusola.)

mircea_popescu: "The first thing I said when I saw this website, is that Shari failed. She knew people (many datapoints indicate the site creators are Alison and Isis) were about to do this. How could she let this happen? I am strongly wondering if this was really about protecting women. Here's what I noticed: I am a woman, and I estimate that more than half of the Tor core people know I was dating him, or at least close to him. If Tor belie

mircea_popescu: ved there was victims, why did no one ask if I had bad experiences with Jake? This would have been easy given that Alison spent an hour alone with me in a cafe at the last TorDev meeting and had several communication channels with me. Also I have been at Isis' place several times in the last months as I am dating her roommate Brennan" <<< MOTHERFUCKER. so what, i'm to watch low rent reruns of beverly hills 90201 now ? da fuck!

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: https://archive.is/ImDmM << bonus. this is... shari.

asciilifeform: photo.

asciilifeform: candidate for BingoBoingo's collection.

asciilifeform: i could not possibly say.

asciilifeform: perhaps as a toilet brush.

mircea_popescu: aaanyway. not all graves are worth the stream of piss, and in the case of tor i'm well spent.

asciilifeform: the bizarre autolysis is kinda interesting to me.

asciilifeform: what did these folks see themselves as having been ~doing~ all of this time.

mircea_popescu: see, that's the thing with plowing flies : for as long as the plow appears to plow, they imagine their clicking through lolpics and whatever-not-irc-chat nonsense is "work"

mircea_popescu: once nsa runs out of budget for the project, they are still... "working", just as they did before.

mircea_popescu: to shari, brenda, cher and madonna whatever, the notion that anything changed is entirely foreign. they'll quite not understand the source of derision eg above, and imagine, to quote, "Author seems to have an axe to grind."

asciilifeform: https://archive.is/2CprW << i wonder how this lolcow is paid. per-lol ?

mircea_popescu: back in the tardstalk glory days of 2012 it was "because competition!!!", but by now that nonsensical coverup has been disposed with.

asciilifeform: 'i was there, i did it!' -- al gore, 9/12/01

asciilifeform: incidentally, mr. lolcow just gave away, unwittingly, another gpg laugh - recall what else comes out of rng when you generate key, after the primes ?

asciilifeform: aha, the symmetric key for ciphering the privkey for storage.

asciilifeform: you read it here phirst (tm) (r)

mircea_popescu: heh. "Five minutes later, Burnett called back and said, “I don’t believe you actually represent her.”¹ Burnett stated additionally that a phone call from me might suffice, but that the FBI preferred to meet with me in person. After a pause he said, “But… if we happen to run into her on the street, we’re gonna be asking her some questions without you present.”" << "That's fine. And if she happens to run into som

mircea_popescu: e of your aqents on the street, you'll be recognizing them on youtube, by how their liver and spleen squirms."

asciilifeform: (or was it derived wholly from pw ? i suppose i oughta read the thing, later.)

asciilifeform: looks like.

asciilifeform: (rng is also used in primality test, but it is switched into 'fast' gear and doesn't use the pool)

asciilifeform: incidentally, the traditional pattern of 'push this button for zero security' is everywhere present.

mircea_popescu: AND moreover, most of that legendary mb of entropy should go into the primality test, not into the prime gen

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc the runtime on the one known deterministic test (saxena's algo) is prohibitive.

asciilifeform: iirc, best variant that does not introduce an unproven conjecture runs in O(log n) ^ 6.

asciilifeform: you mean, what is the constant multiplicand ?

asciilifeform: i have nfi, it would be interesting to determine it.

asciilifeform: it would depend on an actual physical implementation

asciilifeform: http://arxiv.org/abs/1311.3785 << possibly of interest.

asciilifeform: (interest in the subj is slim, on account of miller-rabin probabilistic test provably converging - i.e. probability of catastrophic failure can be made smaller than probability of machine flattened by asteroid the same night) ☟︎

asciilifeform: the ~implementation~ of the latter in gpg - is other question entirely.

asciilifeform: aks isn't a hog because of entropy-eating

asciilifeform: it - yes

asciilifeform: though funnily enough koch didn't pump ~that~ entropy from the whitened pool

mircea_popescu: and no, obd does not need 1mb, or beenfit from it. point was - if you're going to use spare entropy, it would be for this rather than too much waltzing or w/e.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and bitcoin had "its database replaced" ; except "wallet still uses dbd"

asciilifeform: witness the sheer inherent sad in, e.g., http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524029 ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-08-18 04:05 asciilifeform: char *p = get_random_bits( nbits, randomlevel, secret )

asciilifeform: why is there 'randomlevel' and 'secret' flag ?

asciilifeform: answer given, of course, is 'conserve SCARCE, PRECIOUS' entropy.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this item re-appears in every single sad crypto proggy.

asciilifeform: for pc.

asciilifeform: since the dark ages, and up.

asciilifeform: 'oh we can't have keygen take a week, and besides, who will sit and wiggle the mouse.'

asciilifeform: re, aks, if mircea_popescu can't be arsed to wade through the linked piece,

asciilifeform: 'The very fact that the check for whether the number 9965468763136528274628451 is prime ( in Table 5.3 ) took as much as around 70 minutes shows how inefficient it is.'

asciilifeform: it also helps to remember that there is no such actual thing as a fully deterministic algo for a physical machine.

mircea_popescu: by definition, the efficiency of the single given method to do anything is always 100%

asciilifeform: i.e. there is always a - calculable - chance that your result bit uncorrectedly flips right before you read it.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform which is the reasoning here - yes rm can be made to converge. so what's it hurt to have another test ?

asciilifeform: there are other probabilistic tests, which also converge.

asciilifeform: and i'd personally love a deterministic test that doesn't take 4 years of cpu for a 2048-bit mod.

asciilifeform: if crypto-academia were something like a going concern, rather than elaborate circle wank, we might actually have had one.

mircea_popescu: moreover, subtle errors in technology are best made evident with radically different approaches. "have both deterministic and non deterministic tests, notwithstanding IT IS PROVEN the latter converges" is substantially the same thought process as produced phuctor.

asciilifeform: if phuctor took 4 yrs/key, it would not be of much interest.

mircea_popescu: i just mean the part where "everyone knows the moduli don't factor" "oh look they do"

asciilifeform: (witness, even the '2 minutes per key' was rather too long to be of use.)

asciilifeform: conceptually.

asciilifeform: http://cs.stackexchange.com/a/23360 << take with grain of salt, but possibly related.

asciilifeform: i'd like to know from where he got the figure - no source is cited.

mircea_popescu: so yes, vijay menon claimed in 2013 that his implementation of agrawal-kayal-saxena took 5k seconds for a 25 digit number ; and consequently we could expect as much as 1 minute/bit or cca 4k minutes for a tmrs-rsa key.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it isn't linear

asciilifeform: also, mircea_popescu's airgap unit runs for 4 days in its cage ? i cannot boast of this.

asciilifeform: that's the other thing - when you're massaging your key, you are also radiating it.

asciilifeform: continuously.

asciilifeform: holy shit mircea_popescu

asciilifeform: n isn't ever prime

asciilifeform: (though it would not astonish me if some keys in my collection had a prime n. devil knows i've seen every ~other~ deformity.)

asciilifeform: it'd be hilarious

asciilifeform: would mean that popping rsa is in P

asciilifeform: and we wouldn't be having this thread.

asciilifeform: just like we aren't having a thread about testing strength of knapsack keys.

mircea_popescu: "here, download docker, configure orchestrator, push this butonetor and write your number. the restful interface will return a bevy of young ladies with the factors written in mascara on their tits."

asciilifeform: i've been told that nsa castle of doom actually suffers from the same profusion of 'dockers', etc. as typical american software co.

asciilifeform: and employs several battalions of www dev types.

mircea_popescu: a good chunk of the leaks are due to retarded client-server architectures deployued for no conceivable reason which they don't know how to secure

mircea_popescu: the lulziest part being that they've been aware of this for years and don't know how to fix it.

asciilifeform: at one point, pentagon had a physically-separate wan, for seekrits

asciilifeform: then it was deemed impractical, to have separate fibers run in unmarked pipes, set in cement, around entire continent

asciilifeform: not to mention oceans

asciilifeform: so they 'fudged', and began piping traffic over conventional net, symmetrically crypted

asciilifeform: with multitude of bridges, etc.

asciilifeform: and, as i understand, the rest of it - flowed from this.

asciilifeform: sorta like those centurions who threw out the armour, 'too heavy' ☟︎

asciilifeform: ( there was a mircea_popescu piece ... somewhere )

asciilifeform: in other lulz, https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=834829 << 'gpg-agent'

asciilifeform: meanwhile, in the brave young world of microshit-flavoured (yes) open-sores, https://github.com/PowerShell/PowerShell/pull/1901

asciilifeform: q: 'remove curl and wget aliases #1901. They block use of the commonly used command line tools without providing even an attempt to offer the same functionality. They serve no purpose for PowerShell users but cause confusion and problems to existing curl and wget users.'

asciilifeform: a: 'We are rejecting this PR as it introduces "Unacceptable Changes", see our breaking change contract. If you disagree with this resolution, you will need to start an RFC. Note that our RFC process currently states only team members may create a new RFC. Our intent is to open this up to the community at large, we'll be updating that repo very soon to clarify.' ☟︎

asciilifeform: q: 'You adding them was "a breaking change" to people who were used to using curl and wget from their command lines. No sane person would use those alises anyway since your replacements for curl and wget aren't working anywhere near like the original curl and wget command line tools. These aliases are only making the life harder of the users who actually want the real tools and they don't do anything good for those who don't care for

asciilifeform: the real tools.'

asciilifeform: a: 'We're not saying here that this isn't a change we can investigate, but per our governance model we need to have a conversation around it. The impact of this change would be far-reaching, and it's not one we can make lightly.'

asciilifeform: gold.

asciilifeform: and yes, apparently microshit implemented a turd that takes ~none of the commands eaten by actual curl OR wget, but is symlinked to BOTH names.

phf: i for one am looking forward to many lulz delivered by powershell fraction of linux on desktop koomoounity

phf: are they going to integrate many lulz of systemd? are they going to do more dodgy shit, with nameless anons ripping hair on chest with indignation? are they going to coexist with freedesktop community, kind of like how one huckster can always recognize another, and keep each other at respectful distance until there's an opportunity for an underhanded move

asciilifeform: the ~aimed~ endgame, we already knew in 1990s, Official Microshit Linux, with all of the idiocies in one pot, and nothing else will boot on new comp, because signing key in fritz chip.

asciilifeform: ~how~ it will be achieved, is still an open question.

asciilifeform: currently they have folks sawing in convergent directions, microshitians to 'linuxize', embrace, extend, e.g., the powershell derps; and poetterings to winblowiate linuxland, e.g., systemd.

asciilifeform: it stands to reason that at some point the saw blades will reach the middle.

asciilifeform: how many users left today of 'terrorist' os, where you can (and must) rebuild ALL of the binaries locally ?

asciilifeform: (e.g., gentoo, openbsd)

asciilifeform: 1000? 100 ?

phf: well, i'm more interested in mechanics of it all, since i don't believe in lizard hitler. do thugs of both camps meet at the canteen and measure each other up? are they going to embrace mutual scam wholeheartedly? are they going to try and undermine each other in subtle ways? ☟︎

asciilifeform: do termites have an architect who directs demolition of a house ?

asciilifeform: or do they just chew.

phf: we're on the same page, but purely from entomology perspective, i, for example, don't know how two competing groups of termites behave when joining forces.

asciilifeform: point was that they do not need to

asciilifeform: but will naturally gravitate to fresh-looking opposite ends of a column to chew.

phf: fwiw, i suspect there's as many users of terrorist os as there were in the 90s, or as little. just a lot more users of microshit variety, and also users of obuntus and such, that scew the picture

asciilifeform: re hitler, http://btcbase.org/log/2014-11-14#922393 << see also. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2014-11-14 22:24 asciilifeform: (for n00bs only: who is 'lizard hitler' ? a character approximately as real as magnetic field lines were to michael faraday. don't look for magnetic field lines, they aren't there. physically. or as far as we can tell, anyway.)

asciilifeform: phf: did you miss the gpg2 thread ?

asciilifeform: 'box where i built EVER bin' is significantly taller order today than in, say, 1998.

asciilifeform: *EVERY

phf: you just forgot how it was in '98. you now have wider range of available shit, so it's the snr that has changed. there was definitely a peak free software where available range also had max hacker value, i.e. intangible quality of buildable, inspectable, etc. but before that free software was kind of shit with a lot of dyi required. ☟︎

asciilifeform: still is.

asciilifeform: (and many of the 'solutions' to 'diy required', such as automake, are evil.)

phf: i'd say peak free software happened around same time when drivers were still a massive problem. when i moved to this country somebody gave me a g3 ibook, which i used for years to run linux (until i finally caved and switched to os x). i remember spending as much time on my fvwm as i did patching orinoco drivers. in fact my first massive foray into kernel hacking was getting those orinoco drivers to work for specific combination of

asciilifeform: the drivers thing is yet another problem that was never actually solved

asciilifeform: but instead 'solved' with vendor blobs.

asciilifeform: and horrors of the cthonian deep, such as real mode bios callouts (as in x11), or acpi crapolade.

asciilifeform: folks labour under delusion that the problems of 'dawn of linux' were solved. they were not.

asciilifeform: and if you start seriously pulling on it, the duct tape - WILL come off.

asciilifeform: mats: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524762 << see also. ☝︎

asciilifeform: and http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-17#1523002 . ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-08-17 05:54 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-17#1522996 << yeah, i yield the point ; seems alf's theory prevails. at some point the guy was gutted, the skin made hand puppet.

asciilifeform: ;;later tell PeterL http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-19#1525032 << for a spell i did not figure out what was meant, but then, http://www.laboyglass.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/h/m/hmd011903.jpg !! ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-08-19 12:39 PeterL: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-18#1524397 << this thing is informally known as a MFP - if you flip it upside down it looks just like a "man fucking pig" (and grad students find humor in the weirdest things)

phf: the guy who invented tiling window managers (tuomo valkonen, he wrote Ion, that nobody probably remembers at this point), quit linux in 2005 or so over exactly these things. his pet peve was all the retardation that was going into x11 as part of linux on desktop movement. of course back then people laughed at him, etc. ☟︎

asciilifeform remembers 'ion' very well.

asciilifeform: mats: demolition of usg serves interests of all sane people on the globe, yes, even in moscow

asciilifeform: even abos in australia, nameless savages in amazon forest, chukchas in the godforsaken arctic circle. them also.

asciilifeform: lol mats , https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3031644-FOXACID-Server-SOP-Redacted.html censored, as usual.

asciilifeform: mats: nobody gives a fuck re 'oppressed'. a bullet in the head of maniac with axe is a gift to everyone he might have otherwise run into, regardless of whether possibly somewhere there are others like him, not yet shot.

mats: ecuadorian indigenous peoples are ideally slowly starving to death on whatever subsistence farming they're doing

asciilifeform: preferable to growing fat on conditional mcdonalds.

asciilifeform: PeterL: aha.

mats: this item looks like something i saw in an amateur chemist's setup, guy was making 'wax', thc concentrates ☟︎

asciilifeform: what i don't get is why the thing needs to be a unitary piece of glass

asciilifeform: we distilled when i went to school, rig looked entirely like this but made of jointed condenser, tubes, etc. that were from standard kit.

asciilifeform: is it really so painful to grease joints ?

PeterL: the "short" in "short path distilation" is easier to get with one piece than if you have to use part of length for connectors

asciilifeform: and how the fuck do you wash the 'pigfuck' tool.

asciilifeform: hm i suppose that makes sense.

asciilifeform: (i still have nfi how one cleans, e.g., a soxhlet)

asciilifeform can picture this.

PeterL: whenever I used soxhlet, I clean by dumping copious amounts of solvent into it from various angles

asciilifeform: 'MistyVeal cannot call out on the network on its own. It piggybacks on Internet Explorer to call out on the network. ... If a target is using FireFox and has MistyVeal on the box, MistyVeal does nothing.'

asciilifeform: for srs?

asciilifeform: mats what a snore.

asciilifeform: the foxacid dump

asciilifeform: from mats's link

a111: Logged on 2016-08-19 17:25 mats: this item looks like something i saw in an amateur chemist's setup, guy was making 'wax', thc concentrates

PeterL: speaking of soxhlet, would that help the thc enthusiast to get more out of their materials?

thestringpuller: maybe? once you do fractional distallation the product is like 99% active ingredient

mats: idk what your intention is but ownership and operation of that equipment is a massive liability

thestringpuller: So I'm finally interested in chemistry and now there is a war on science?

PeterL: maybe thestringpuller does not trust the guys trying to sell him stuff, needs to make of known purity?

thestringpuller: PeterL: partially. They use butane solvents for the initial extract on the east coast cause higher yields, but butane sucks. ☟︎

asciilifeform: thestringpuller: what is the point of extracting it ?

thestringpuller: I have asthma so for me personally less irritatoin on lungs for greater affect. I use it medicinally in combination with other focus medications.

asciilifeform: thestringpuller may recall a recent thread on american dope laws, where if someone is found with, e.g., extract in intermediate (still dilute) stage, the sentence will be as if entire volume of liquid were the pure dope.

asciilifeform: for extra lulz.

asciilifeform: this tends to happen, interestingly, fairly often, as recrystallization takes a while

asciilifeform: esp for folks lacking a source of vacuum and drying in the sun etc.

thestringpuller: as dave chappelle says, we know the dope laws like lawyers. everytime we do something felonious, an old black dude pops out and says, "hey nigga thats 10-20"

asciilifeform: i found the detail interesting because usg exempts itself by decree from conservation of mass...

asciilifeform: (why not also gravity?)

thestringpuller: in a lab scenario when the DEA is busting in they just want to fuck you as much as they can because "FREE MONEY"

asciilifeform: so, as i understand, if arrestee were carrying extract in his pocket, and it were to rain, and the water pools in the pocket... he will be tried for entire mass, original + rainwater.

thestringpuller: But the actuality is no one rolls around with more than maybe a half gram of extract.

asciilifeform: in fact, iirc it is no longer even necessary to have actual dope, there are folks doing time for packets of sugar and flour. ☟︎

thestringpuller: asciilifeform: did I ever tell you the story of how my old college mentor, got raided for Meth. And somehow through self representation was able to get the charges reduced to misdemeanors?

asciilifeform: i don't recall it in the logz

asciilifeform: mats: https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3031638-Select-Slides-FINAL-PMR-4-24-13-Redacted.html << lulzy. idiot orcs.

asciilifeform: Run Moar Winblowz.

thestringpuller: well old mentor of mine found sleep to be his number one enemy. so he decided to just be on stimulants 24/7 and sleep minimally while staying up late programming assembly code or some non-sense. d00d is as insane as he is smart. okay anyhow he bought this condo, and at the time he was a Ph.D candidate and was like "Meth is awesome I hate sleep!"

thestringpuller: Anyhow, due to shitty evidence collection, he was able to show that with expert testimonies he would likely be acquitted if it went to trial

asciilifeform: thestringpuller: what did the 'experts' cost ?

asciilifeform: first time i hear of defendant admitted as expert witness.

thestringpuller: he wrote up a white paper on how one would create meth and compared it to the evidence they collected

asciilifeform: prosecutor could have indicted him under the 'analogues act'

asciilifeform: for 'newly discovered synthesis'

mats: asciilifeform: if i'm remembering these acronyms correctly, that last thing doesn't ave anything to do with windows

asciilifeform: mats: inference from 1) no one has yet to publicly hear of an orc with linux desktop 2) not one piece of exploit kit related to such has yet leaked out of usg.

asciilifeform: does not prove the non-existence, sure.

thestringpuller: mats: i'm actually more worried about going to jail for buying bitcoin /w cash than I am anything else I do that's considered criminal activity.

asciilifeform: presumably it lives in the 'interesting stuff' room, where snowden never went.

asciilifeform: where the rsa-diddling is, etc.

asciilifeform: thestringpuller: folks who are jailed seem almos universally ~surprised~ re for what, how, and why.

asciilifeform: i am not the first to observe this.

thestringpuller: Oh I do. I just have not found a way to transfer BTC to cash and back without meeting someone in person.

thestringpuller: I'm like highly convinced someone is gonna roll up on us one day and just take the cash.

thestringpuller: war on cash man. you have more than 1 grand, the police take it. no questions.

thestringpuller: you have a safe in your car. they take the safe and let you keep on rolling.

mats: its unbelievable to me that your network is so small you can't orchestrate a btc purchase for cash

thestringpuller: it's getting to that point :( never thought I'd have to have proxies for such an activity back in 2012

asciilifeform: lack of dirigible.

thestringpuller: asciilifeform: i guess police are like dogs. throw a bone in one direction, do activity in different direction.

thestringpuller: mats: i'm cheap so yea. I guess that's my future - "Mo' Money, Mo' Problems"

asciilifeform: https://youtu.be/pEp9d1bUTec?t=9m45s << in other noose, orlol seems to agree with mircea_popescu re american police.

mats: anyways, i await next chapter of snowden-ru cooperation, where they leak evidence of usg direct action against civilian nato target

asciilifeform: iirc this came long ago

asciilifeform: (french ? isp, or swiss, or who was it.)

asciilifeform: and them.

asciilifeform: https://youtu.be/pEp9d1bUTec?t=13m06s << aaaand mr o reads, i suspect, the l0gz.

mircea_popescu: how the fuck is the head of civilian government at peace "military target"

mircea_popescu: (and what would be the definition of "rogue state" other than that ? "people we don't like" ?)

mircea_popescu: as far as the usg is concerned, germany is at peace, and moreover, an ally.

mircea_popescu: the real situation doesn't enter into this, the fictitious situation as presented by usg is the basis.

mircea_popescu: they want merkel to be a military target, best declare war to germany first.

PeterL: the US does not declare war anymore, they just start blowing stuff up. (last US declaration of war was WWII)

asciilifeform: it it even correct to use word 'target' for a willing muppet

asciilifeform: (has merkel ordered, e.g., all usg snoops caught in her palace shot ? why not ?)

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-19#1525339 << the problem being deeper : contrary to pretense, the us military is just not that important. much like the knight became relatively irrelevant, much like the "nuclear threat" consisted muchly of circus, etc. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-08-19 15:50 asciilifeform: sorta like those centurions who threw out the armour, 'too heavy'

a111: Logged on 2016-08-19 16:38 asciilifeform: a: 'We are rejecting this PR as it introduces "Unacceptable Changes", see our breaking change contract. If you disagree with this resolution, you will need to start an RFC. Note that our RFC process currently states only team members may create a new RFC. Our intent is to open this up to the community at large, we'll be updating that repo very soon to clarify.'

mircea_popescu: governance model, listen to random indian go. "we" and "governance model".

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-19#1525359 << if experience is any guide, they're going to fuck and regret it, then start complicated psychodramas of no interest and then fizzle away into liverjournal. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-08-19 16:56 phf: well, i'm more interested in mechanics of it all, since i don't believe in lizard hitler. do thugs of both camps meet at the canteen and measure each other up? are they going to embrace mutual scam wholeheartedly? are they going to try and undermine each other in subtle ways?

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-19#1525373 << im with him. it's not altogether clear that the shit of today is any worse than the utter shit of 1990s. contrary to what the fans believe, stupid shit never worked worth a damn. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-08-19 17:04 phf: you just forgot how it was in '98. you now have wider range of available shit, so it's the snr that has changed. there was definitely a peak free software where available range also had max hacker value, i.e. intangible quality of buildable, inspectable, etc. but before that free software was kind of shit with a lot of dyi required.

asciilifeform: where was systemd in the '90s ?

asciilifeform: pretty much where it is now.

asciilifeform: wading through megatonne of shit is a very different experience, in practice, from cleaning one small chamber pot.

asciilifeform: '90s kernel was, early on, ~readable~.

asciilifeform: where is that now.

asciilifeform: approx as useful as today's.

asciilifeform: waiwat

mircea_popescu: reality : 3/4 = 9 / 12 ; alf-proposition-1 : "3 is approx 9". alf-proposition-2 : "meanwhile 4 turned to 12!!!1"

asciilifeform: i dun get it

mircea_popescu: and if pushed, alf-proposition-3 : "all numbers of the same number of digits are ~equal"

mircea_popescu: reality : kernel-utility-3/kernel-idiocy-4 = kernel-utility-9 / kernel-idiocy-12 ; alf-proposition-1 : "3 is approx 9". alf-proposition-2 : "meanwhile 4 turned to 12!!!1"

asciilifeform: when i dig for the essential core of some proggy with version history going back to '90s, typically i walk away with distinct feeling that reading the post-2003 or so tarballs was entire waste of time.

asciilifeform: this - admittedly - is a subjective observation. take, or leave, whatever.

mircea_popescu: ie, you're constructing this experiment to miss out on the stuff that didn't exist in 1990.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: most of this stuff we will be, painfully, redoing from ~zero.

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-19#1525392 << incidentally, tiling window managers are fucking retarded. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-08-19 17:14 phf: the guy who invented tiling window managers (tuomo valkonen, he wrote Ion, that nobody probably remembers at this point), quit linux in 2005 or so over exactly these things. his pet peve was all the retardation that was going into x11 as part of linux on desktop movement. of course back then people laughed at him, etc.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i won't use anything but a tiling wm.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know, so is any woman you meet. in a few brief years she'll have to be redone, by some woman, painfully, from zero.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i've yet to use a "non-full-screen window" for anything. ☟︎

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: install a couple square metres of lcd and write back.

mircea_popescu: "i don't need grenade pin safety for anything" "put grenade in your ass, pull it out by pin and write back"

phf: laying out terminals is nice, but i prefer how fvwm did it. "find a square of screen realestate, where i can fit it, with some tolerance"

mircea_popescu: phf what the fuck is wrong with just flipping pages / adding more panels if flipping is THAT big a deal ☟︎

asciilifeform: phf: dafuq i want with 'find a square somewhere'. i want this scrolling log RIGHT HERE, on display #3, under the other log for other boxes, and this one gets 2cm because it is not esp. important.

mircea_popescu: i am seriously sitting here flipping between log and xchat, and i wouldn't care to do it another way.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is not watching 45 processes.

mircea_popescu: "it would be so terribly hard and difficult to pipe all the shit into a single file and tail that omaygerd."

asciilifeform: why the fuck would i want it in a single file

asciilifeform: not only watching, but occasionally interacting with particular box.

phf: actually i had best results with multiple logs in a single file, color coded. it gives you also better understanding of time relationship between events

asciilifeform: phf: this works when ALL you want is to tail log

mircea_popescu: anyway ; anyone is free to jack off with whatever technique he prefers. let it be clearly stated though that a) underhand is perfectly valid and b) that the first time you were unsupervised as a 9yo you did it with sharpened pencils does not mean sharpened pencisl are required to jack off.

phf: mircea_popescu: i work a lot better with your method, but i also sometimes like to manually drag windows around in a particular arrangement as a sort of distracted busy work. the only usecase i found for tiling wm is "full screen everything"

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the only thing this "tiling" bullshit does, in your case as exemplified, and in general as a matter of necessity, is that it allows you to hide your poor cognitive performance in minutious labour. IF you are encountering certain classes of problems (wood splinters in glans penis), it is because you are doing certain things wrong and should revise your process. a signal proper pagination does give you, and tiling

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i am not interested in glomming 45 shells into one soup pot.

mircea_popescu: phf not like i'm saying it's verboten. heck, i fuck around with ipads on occasion. but sin does not change doctrine.

asciilifeform: nor in mouse masturbation.

asciilifeform: nor in wasting precious pixels on window decorations.

asciilifeform: nor in windows which obscure other windows.

asciilifeform: flipping between, and shuffling windows, IS minutious labour.

asciilifeform: that mircea_popescu grew used to it from papers on architect desk, or wherever, changes nothing.

asciilifeform: tiled means that not one obscures not one square mm of any other.

asciilifeform: and that you can navigate all of them with only eyeballs.

mircea_popescu: i tell you though, whenever i came into the office of some dude who was literally fucking around with 45 different pieces of paper at the same time, i wouldn't think "oh this guy is such a super hero" but rather "ok, this guy's getting fired first."

asciilifeform: aaaand that was how mircea_popescu ended up having to run his reactor himself.

asciilifeform: 'for what do you need all of these gauges at the same time!'

asciilifeform: and let's have one touch screen instead of the bunch of levers!111111

mircea_popescu: you know, contrary to the tv version of blinkenlichten, in cockpit design, and ESPECIALLY for combat or any sort of emergency situation, more items are regarded as a serious liability.

asciilifeform: let him set if he wants to control throttle or rudder.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nobody said 'more is better.'

mircea_popescu: wars have been won over army one having 3 buttons and army two having 7 buttons.

phf: the point might be that a single information stream is always superior to multiple streams. the second comes from necessity (there's no time or desire to find a way to merge them, there's no analyst to merge them for you, etc.). it's always a better state when you can only have one, in which case tiling is a pointless concept. you only ever have one stream.

phf: PeterL: that's actually a well known counter examples that supports the opposite of what you're trying to say

asciilifeform: it remains the case that merging rudder and throttle is braindamaged, regardless of how you do it.

phf: there's multiple training systems that are supposed to teach an operator how to deal with multiple inputs in high stress situations (like cockpit, or nuclear powerplant), and the techniques are all reduced to "how to perceive multiple streams as a single stream"

asciilifeform: phf: likewise, i do not actually deal with the separate streams simultaneously !

mircea_popescu: moreover, the point is that human brain is human brain and you're not changing it. it has ONE attention flow. you use it as best you can.

asciilifeform: i simply do the work of switching, when i switch, using EYES

asciilifeform: instead of having to move windows.

asciilifeform: i'm not interested in having ONE scroll and a bunch of 'something changed, MAYBE YOU SHOULD CHECK' blinkers.

PeterL: I typically have lowest ~inch of irc visible with something else on top of it to work on

phf: those techniques are seen as necessary in a situation that is suboptimal. yes, you need throttle and rudder, but it would've been better if you only had one

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that sounds like uniquely poor design and you should butcher the whoeverts did that to you.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: describe yours ?

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: how do you learn when a process has produced an interesting output ?

asciilifeform: polling ?

mircea_popescu: but anyway, yes, phf has it, ~most if not all training for high performance human operator could be summarized as "how to merge multistream in your head"

asciilifeform: i don't actually disagree with ^

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well it depends, what process ? maybe it'sfiltered. maybe its...

asciilifeform: say, irc box.

mircea_popescu: often it actually is analyst-produced, because yes, phf intuitscorrectly, the ~only thing a "process" in the sense of, bash window is, is a very cheap version of mazarin's informants. who wrote him letters. which he read... on a non-tiling display.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu has humans in the loop , this tech is not applicable outside of dirigible .

asciilifeform: as did mazarin .

PeterL: so you are doing something else on puter, and somebody highlights you in IRC, you get notified by slavegirl or what?

mircea_popescu: unless im doing something on other display, in which case it scrolls on this screen

phf: fwiw my entire system is poll based. i literally don't have any notifications, all are disabled. "i look when i look"

asciilifeform: i also have 0 notifications.

mircea_popescu: i have some notifications, but the penalty for fucking with it idly is indeed high.

asciilifeform: it is one of the reasons i have the panels

mircea_popescu: twenty years ago people were petrified of naught more than having to call me on the phone.

asciilifeform: so that if something moves, my hindbrain can do the coprocessing

asciilifeform: and if it is in a low-priority corner of peripheral vision, i can ignore.

asciilifeform: PeterL: i have tiles-on-multiple-displays. not importantly different.

BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-19#1525034 << FOr me just crib their formula. 37.5 x 52 to get 2015's hours. I have now idea how to count them all but certainly over. ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-08-19 12:40 mircea_popescu: so on other news, i am writing teh republic's "cia factbook", and on the matter of gdp i would like to have an estimate of the "fair market value of the total time donated to republic during 2015" in the estimation of everyone involved. detailed is better, but nothing over a page omg.

mircea_popescu: PeterL the discussion was "tiling wm" specifically. and i said, exactly, http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-19#1525580 ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-08-19 18:40 mircea_popescu: phf what the fuck is wrong with just flipping pages / adding more panels if flipping is THAT big a deal

asciilifeform: 'tiling' simulates cutting display into pieces. is all it is.

asciilifeform: not everything merits an entire panel.

mircea_popescu: more over : it was over the merits of implementing a specific cut in hardware vs software.

mircea_popescu: and the contention is that not only not all cuts are worth making in software : this one definitely isn't.

hanbot: i use multiple panels but keep those i'm not actively looking at turned off. otherwise i can actually perceive time being wasted mulling between them.

mircea_popescu: just for kicks /me imagines alf becoming a talk show host, having 45 different microphones implanted in his ears. for science.

asciilifeform: hanbot: i used to turn'em on/off, had entire switchboard for this, then noticed that IT is a timesink...

asciilifeform: now i just have one 'big red button' for'em.

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the correct analogy is the bellow pumping.

asciilifeform: quite a few items that look 'wtf, why would you DO that' to mircea_popescu , come from not having a slave stable

asciilifeform: i.e. 'not from a good life.'

mircea_popescu: the other possibility, however, is that it comes from the same place a love of tchotchkes comes.

asciilifeform: 'i picked this up, now won't throw out' ?

mircea_popescu: yes. moreover, "thinking about my things as things rather than as extensions of my identity is VERY BAD SCARY AND EVIL"

asciilifeform: quite often, e.g., asciilifeform , is reduced to working on 1 display, sometimes for weeks at a time, on account of travel, say.

asciilifeform: quite unpleasant.

asciilifeform: and i enjoy coming back to actual workstation that is set up just-so, correctly.

asciilifeform: asciilifeform's eyeglasses would not work on mircea_popescu either, i suspect.

asciilifeform: there we go

asciilifeform: ever see a 'harmonium' ?

asciilifeform: musical instrument.

asciilifeform: the small one is kinda like accordion, but stationary, sits on the floor, one hand plays, other - pumps

asciilifeform: that's the other one, aha

asciilifeform: like upright piano, but instead of organ pedals, there is one 'singer sewing machine'-style pumper.

asciilifeform: both kinds have this feature, and run on accordion-style reeds internally. anyway it is very much 'poor man's' instrument traditionally.

asciilifeform: who has nobody to offload the pumping to.

mircea_popescu: well i do think it's pretty stupid, other than for the endearing/cultural value.

hanbot: incidentally, why are there no pianists on those long, scrolling walkways in airport terminal connectors? could put the music up along the handrail.

asciilifeform: (neighbours in my old flat were 'hari krishna' weirdos, and so i unfortunately became very closely familiar with this instrument.)

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: was my point. concert organists dun have 'i gotta pump with this other hand' problems.

asciilifeform: because 'i'ma play the organ and fuck y'all', approximately.

PeterL: organs were typically build with muscle driven bellows before electric motor was invented

mircea_popescu: i suppose there is merit to this point, which is to say, "nutty central command economy mp wouldn't have ever come up with harmoniums, because they are stupid."

asciilifeform: PeterL: typical medieval arrangement was rather like modern 'stair climber' exercise machine. in separate room.

phf: i always sort of assumed that harmoniums were brought to india by traveling european bums, as an approximation of motherland culture, and stuck

asciilifeform: so yes, i would happily offload the 45 shells to 50 people.

asciilifeform: phf: by the brits.

asciilifeform: normal organ, iirc, could not stand up to the humidity.

mircea_popescu: incidentally, speaking of "medieval" organs, everyone knows the hysterical "notre dame des courants d'air" scene i trust ?

asciilifeform: 'Collaboration between multiple divisions within TAO and S215 led to the development of a custom-built router exploit and new HAMMERCORE implant builds.'

asciilifeform: (what is/was s215..?)

asciilifeform: 'The OGERO ISP gateway router (RB) was exploited via HAMREX to enable SECONDDATE MiTM. The OGERO upstream Liban Telecom routers were exploited with CGDB, then implanted with HAMMERCORE and HAMMERSTEIN to enable successful Shaping of Hizballah Unit 1800 related traffic for multiple CT projects. Traffic was exfiltrated to STORMBREW from core routers and was accessible to S21, S2E, and SSG\NAC analysts via XKEYSCORE in less than 24 hour

asciilifeform: s following the successful shaping tasking.'

asciilifeform: lulzy.

asciilifeform: 'TAO project REXKWONDO successfully enabled Country-Wide Shaping and Man-in-the-Middle (MiTM) capabilities against Lebanon's Internet traffic for the first time ever.'

asciilifeform: ^ has to be hangout, they own the upstream.

asciilifeform: what sort of nonsense is this. ☟︎

asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu https://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-devel/2016-August/031516.html << continued lelz ☟︎

asciilifeform: 'To predict bytes 580..599 an attacker needs to know the bytes in the range 0..44 and 560..579.' << horseshit.

asciilifeform: all he needs is a lattice solution, as described in the sarkar thing.

asciilifeform: that includes ripemd.

asciilifeform: once you have a known ~relation~ like this, you can work with it.

asciilifeform: 'I _might_ have introduced the hole to mix in more bytes in each step. Or it was a plain bug.' -- koch.

asciilifeform: ( https://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-devel/2016-August/031513.html )

asciilifeform: ( ??? )

asciilifeform: 'It's not at all what I described in my PRNG paper, but I can't tell if that's an accident or by design because, well, there are no code comments. What the GnuPG code does is mix the next 64 bytes and then overwrite the preceding 20 bytes with the mixed output, however this doesn't propagate any entropy along through the buffer.'

asciilifeform: -- gutmann

asciilifeform: ( https://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-devel/2016-August/031508.html ) .

asciilifeform: aaaaaaand, didja know,

asciilifeform: https://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-devel/2016-August/031475.html << they have a CONFERENCE!11111 ☟︎

asciilifeform: and guess what isn't on the agenda.

asciilifeform: https://openpgp-conf.org/program.html

asciilifeform: ^ abstracts.

phf: i thought you said "what is on the agenda", i spent a few minutes trying to interpret those subjects in a nefarios way

asciilifeform: these folk specialize in isn'ts.

asciilifeform: not is's.

asciilifeform: though their 'is' is quite lulzy, e.g., the sks server talk is about 'This talk will discuss some experiences operating the services and discuss new features related to new specifications such as Elliptic Curves (including but not limited to Ed25519 and Curve25519) and the experimental Tor support available at hkp://jirk5u4osbsr34t5.onion in addition to providing an overview of the other available pools such as the TLS enabled HKPS p

asciilifeform: ool and the various geographical pools.'

asciilifeform: so predictable, one can almost die of boredom.

asciilifeform: and yet hilarious.

asciilifeform: or how about,

asciilifeform: 'In the last 4 years developing OpenKeychain, an OpenPGP implementation for Android, we made several unconventional UX decisions. While other implementations are still based on UX paradigms introduced in 1997 by PGP 5, we try to re-invent UX for a broader user base. Some of our decisions are subject to controversy in the OpenPGP community, in particular those of hiding information and complexity from the user, rather than giving them

asciilifeform: full control to make bad decisions. We hide Key IDs from the user, we don't use the words public and private, we never mention Key Signing or Keyservers, and we don't generate 8192 RSA keys. In this talk we give an overview over our different UX decisions, the reasoning behind them...'

asciilifeform: ^ who wants to try feeding this abortion , e.g., the khadeer key ?

asciilifeform: i bet it will eat.

asciilifeform: and i won't even bother summarizing, e.g., 'OpenPGP for Android, Web and Windows'

asciilifeform: and who won't love 'As far as the conference program goes, the Mesh may be considered as a proposal to replace/augment the existing OpenPGP key server infrastructure with a new one that provides support for multiple PKI based applications and trust models. ... The Mesh makes it easy for a user to transfer an email configuration from one machine to another and offers to automatically configure OpenPGP ... service whose architecture ma

asciilifeform: y be loosely described as 'MIT keyserver meets blockchain'. '

asciilifeform maxed out dosimeter for the day.

mircea_popescu: you're going to have to pay a fine if you do more than a dozen lines in succession you hear ?

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-19#1525750 << your mental model of a functional monolithical sensible "meta-nsa" is contradicted by the practice. a lot of redundancy is baked in by legions of mindless, not terribly intelligent, here today and gone tomorrow "analysts", "experts", "contractors" and whatnot, with management broadly unaware of what the situation is. ☝︎

asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i did a tour of duty in the most godforsaken imaginable salt mine full of ex-nsa folk. ☟︎

asciilifeform: so i know what they look like.

asciilifeform: (0 from crypto directorate tho.)

mircea_popescu: ok. so basically, they vaguely are aware that project P is made out of parts P1... Pn, although if you take them to task they can't really explain it ; and for that matter they're not really aware that "we made n parts for P" really means "we made part 1 six times and part 3 nine times because they were easy to make, we don't have any 2, 3, 7, 8 or 9 which means P ain't ever EVER working"

mircea_popescu: whole shebang has a lot more to do with absurdist theatre than with technological process.

asciilifeform: it gets carried along by the - occasional - working trick.

asciilifeform: (also helps that the typical target is softer than fresh dog shit)

mircea_popescu: which is more a result of blind statistics than of institutional management

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform softness of the target is not even half the story - what helps more is that half the time the derps don't even know if they got noise or signal.

mircea_popescu: their very tpical hockey sticks machines work just as well over climate data as they work over washing machine readings.

asciilifeform: this subj occurred to me before - who, if anyone, checks the FUCKEDMONKEY or whatever outputs against humint ?

mircea_popescu: which is how a huge thorny tree of "programs" that ate in excess of 300bn in 15 years has produced exactly ZERO any sort of results of any kind whatsoever to date.

mircea_popescu: so in the case of the lebanon thing : yes, they own the upstream, and YES some derps expect to be paid for their "contribution" succeeding "for the first time" blabla.

asciilifeform: 'награждение непричастных, наказание невиновных' (tm) (r)

mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-19#1525751 << epic. werner ADMITS "mp was right all along - gpg 1.4.x is the right way to go, 2.x is weak" ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-08-19 20:35 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu https://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-devel/2016-August/031516.html << continued lelz

asciilifeform: the rng thing was in all published vers.

asciilifeform: (2.x is a monstrosity for other reasons)

mircea_popescu: i fondly recall the brief push by sm derps of the "mp is right occasionally" angle. i suppose someone stopped and counted meanwhile.

mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, no, looky : For GnuPG 2.1 things are different because there is a long running process (gpg-agent) which creates all keys.

asciilifeform: aha, this, yes

mircea_popescu: he can try and paper over it with "should be" and "similar" and whatnot until teh cows come home.

asciilifeform: (recall attempt to build)

mircea_popescu: i forget the exact score, but the part where it is three digits to ZERO is kinda seared in my memory.

mircea_popescu: soo... https://www.google.com/search?q=werner+koch&tbs=qdr:w << is google serving me special pages or does anyone else see trilema leadign there ?

mircea_popescu: might explain all the effort the derps are putting into talking around the matter, i guess.

asciilifeform: i also

mircea_popescu: the gnupg official mail list announcement coming in second goes pretty good with a side helping of http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-17#1523119 ☝︎

a111: Logged on 2016-08-17 16:20 mircea_popescu: "I doubt this will ever happen. Even he never cracked any PGP keys at all, the FUD he spread around was a nice way to get some free advertising. Look, people saying his name on gnupg and enigmail lists, which are quite popular I believe."

a111: Logged on 2016-08-19 20:46 asciilifeform: https://lists.gnupg.org/pipermail/gnupg-devel/2016-August/031475.html << they have a CONFERENCE!11111

mircea_popescu: anyway. i gues yet-another of these events where the whole bar talk is about us.

asciilifeform: i'd be quite surprised if any of the participants (other than, perhaps, koch) even suspected there were any such thing as us.

asciilifeform: https://archive.is/l3ks9 << in other lulz

asciilifeform: 'IEX slows down all of the trades that go through its system with a 38-mile coil of fiber-optic cable that sits between the outside world and the exchange’s main computer. It takes trading signals 350 millionths of a second to get through the coil.'

asciilifeform: a) why do this, or b ) why it could not be done in software - remains a mystery.

asciilifeform: spin machine tells that this front-running is somehow a win ? for KONSOOMERZ.

mircea_popescu: anyway ; it's pleasant to see fiat exchanges migrate to being more like mpex.