a111: Logged on 2016-08-19 14:56 asciilifeform: ;;later tell mod6 i came to this by attempting vdiff of gnupg 1.4.10 vs their .21 release from wednesday, and ending up with an unreadable 8MB turd, they moved/rm'd a buncha files.
a111: Logged on 2015-03-04 06:52 asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: does engl. have a catch-term for 'fatal buggery' ?
a111: Logged on 2016-08-20 20:43 phf: only thing i can't figure out with asciilifeform's killfile is how to get laptop to do apm related stuff. the main package depends on dbus
phf: asciilifeform: there's some other package like laptop-mode maybe, that has a collection of shell scripts that live on top of apm and actually make do all the sensible things
phf: i'll boot the laptop in a few and share the relevant details for interested parties
a111: Logged on 2016-08-20 23:15 covertress: mircea_popescu, I'll elaborate when I bring his proposal, in person.
phf: i don't remember if i got hybernate to work, but my immediate problem was abysmal battery life on literally single emacs buffer and no daemons
phf: x1 carbon, original owner would run ubuntu on it with ~~6h when editing text
☟︎ phf: it dropped to about 2
phf: yeah, i think i figured out how to power down radeon and use intel, which solved some of the issues, but there's also a bunch of other peripherals, that remain powered-up even not in use, bluetooth, gsm, etc.
phf: yeah, one of few devices with such!
phf: you know, i don't think i've actually checked bios come to think of it
phf: i'm pretty sure it's already macbook air school of engineering
phf: i'll give it another try. i started using it prematurely, and was basically running around looking for a powerplug at the point where i really didn't want to deal with shit like that
a111: Logged on 2016-08-21 01:06 mircea_popescu: the song goes "uite-asa as vrea sa mor, cu paharul linga mine, cu cobzarul linga mine, intr-o crisma din obor, sa scriu cind o fi momentul cu vin rosu testamentul. sa-i tragem o betie de pomina sa fie"
a111: Logged on 2016-08-21 00:59 phf: for all the jokes about russian vodka drinking, the amount of "functional alcoholism" i've seen in ussa is staggering. i literally cut contact with about 70% of my friends from my 20s, because they are slob alcoholics with no self control. so it's either health nuts who don't touch the stuff (or rarely) or else it's "50 minutes of квас and then race to the bottom" crowd
phf: oh also i couldn't figure out how to get intel to work on x11, rather than radeon. it seems like it requires some boot time pokes, which you need hurd to execute (or else figure out how to run a random code from lilo but before kernel is loaded, etc.)
phf: err, not hurd, of course, grub
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 00:23 asciilifeform:
http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-20#1526079 << i watched thread and wondered how long an (allegedly) cunt-enabled ninjashogun would last in the field, vs a conventional one. seems like we have an answer.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 00:24 phf: x1 carbon, original owner would run ubuntu on it with ~~6h when editing text
mircea_popescu: even 5 yo "originals" suck when compared with good quality contempos. at least THAT much came out of usg's tesla sponsorship : the chinese now make much better batteries.
phf: not sure i can source a custom battery though
phf: mircea_popescu: never mind, wrong on that account too
mircea_popescu: i really wouldn't advise anyone to open a li-ion shit. why the fuck would you do that, next step is go to africa root through garbage for a living.
phf: that thing looks like an air, so i figured it was junk, internally. but it's quite reasonable. harddrive has a rapid replacement design, etc.
mircea_popescu: point is that cells improved significantly in recent practice.
phf: mircea_popescu: i am, i am ashamed to admit it, feel comfortable in the warm embrace of apple's unix boxes, so transitioning out has been slow and painful.
mircea_popescu: hey, whatever works. tho in my experience apple never made usable anything.
phf: goes back to that whole literacy thing, sort of stuck with me..
phf: -void disable_dotlock(void) {}
phf: +void dotlock_disable(void) {}
phf: "Versions of GnuPG before 1.4.11 and 2.0.16 allowed to import bogus direct key signatures."
☟︎☟︎ phf: - int readonly=!!(flags&8);
phf: + int read_only=!!(flags&8);
phf: fwiw there aren't any file renames between .10 and .21, but certainly plenty of fluff like that
phf: diff is still 36k of lines!
phf: asciilifeform: because you didn't strategically apply excludes to things that harbor nazis collaborators, but still should be probably inspected separately
phf: none have code, except for bzlib that was brought into the codebase
phf: zlib was patched up, very minor patches, but somehow it was necessary to bring in example.c "usage example of the zlib compression library"
phf: riscos.c was added "RISC OS stuff". aha.
phf: estream-printf got a whole blob for testing added including #ifdef TEST and emacs bindings for compile-command to do rapid testing from inside the file. how hacky
phf: oh "intl" is gettext, so that can be cut too. of course, "nazi collaborators here" disclaimer
phf: which brings line count to 15k
phf: i like how they added a stub for GOST
phf: with empty implementation file, and #error don't use this inside
phf: there are some clearly meat-y parts, and then there's a lot of gendered pronounce
phf: there's also bits (like riscos.c which i think is part of zlib and dotlock*), which i think are imported/updated from external sources
phf: i need to patch site icon on that host, it still T
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 00:57 phf: "Versions of GnuPG before 1.4.11 and 2.0.16 allowed to import bogus direct key signatures."
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 01:02 asciilifeform: automake is a work of evil, first thing i did when sawing off the mpi lib is to nuke it.
mircea_popescu: yes ? and the alternative is what, hand-curated perl scriptsw ?
mircea_popescu: yes, but : currently, the compile process is NOT the most difficult part of "noob getting eulora running". (turns out, interacting with irc is. lol.)
mircea_popescu: well that's because automake doesn't work in visual studio.
phf: trb builds on three systems altogether, and it's still a pita
mircea_popescu: phf yeah. i have a problem in that i want to impose eulora as standard for republic code ; but nevertheless automake IS a humongo pile of perl.
mircea_popescu: do you understand what's being said here or just spewing ?
phf: automake solves a bootstrapping problem in that common subtrate across all posix systems is "sh", so it's a tcl-like macro language built on top of shell. biggest problem with it (besides the typical communal retardation) is that nobody actually spends any time trying to understand it, before dismissing it
mircea_popescu: phf i wonder if a "prune down to THIS codebase" function would be useful.
mircea_popescu: ie, it wipes out of itself everything it doesn't actually use.
phf: mircea_popescu: it's already in there
phf: i'm trying to remember what the current name is (which is where community retardation comes from) but yeah, aclocal is where you spec out just the things that you need for project
mircea_popescu: yeah but it doesn't do it by itself. it's just a macro merge thing neh ?
phf: because configure is generated
mircea_popescu: eulora configure.ac is 27kb ; configure however is 720k.
phf: mircea_popescu: well, there's the primary file, where you say things "i need a c compiler for this project"
mircea_popescu: what i had in mind phf is, automake runs on project, keeps track of every bit of itself that it actually called, then inserts a pruned down version of itself somewhere, so you can ship the software with THAT instead of the whole automake.
mircea_popescu: what it does is exactly this : takes a situation where "fuck 83% of people" and allows them to install w/e it is you're making.
phf: mircea_popescu: well, there's the primary file, which is your *.ac, which using autoconf generates your ./configure Makefile.in etc. ~those~ can be shipped with project and will work out of the box
a111: Logged on 2016-08-18 02:48 mircea_popescu: configure: error: libgpg-error is needed.
mircea_popescu: nah, the retardation making it ~impossible to compile gpg 2."current" has 0 to do with automake.
mircea_popescu: they hardwired a bad path in there and i ran outof patience before finding the right magic knob.
mircea_popescu: had they properly used automake the problem wouldn't have existed.
phf: mircea_popescu: that's pretty much how it goes. hardwired paths because "fuck automake" or patching ./configure directly or all kinds of variations on the theme
mircea_popescu: actually ~every project of "battlefield" size seems to end up with a half mb to mb configure script.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do you understand the population of mouthbreathers out there is mystified by webirc page ?
mircea_popescu: so far the major problem is irc usage ; and gpg/deedbot a very distant second.
mircea_popescu: ie, anything that's different from the variety of keymashing they're used to from "work"
mircea_popescu being the derps in question nine cases out of ten. no fucking way am i going to chase obscure deps on your obscure project.
phf: trb's build system is not sane
phf: it doesn't satisfy our own requirements of fits in head, it goes through a rube goldberg machine in order to produce a specific build for a specific system. "mac os x? fuck you. openbsd? fuck you". it doesn't succeed at own goal of producing bit identical builds.
mircea_popescu: seems pure fetishism. "i'm not signing generated code" well... yousigned ... your signature didn;t you ?
mircea_popescu: if you know what the generator does, what's the problem.
mircea_popescu: the metaphor breaks down on / depends on not noticing that IT DELIVERS.
mircea_popescu: that part's not so much in dispute. methinks i said above.
phf: hence we have buildroot, equally unsigned, pretty sure ~nobody~ here read all of it, or relevant parts for the build system
mircea_popescu: ah, to clarify : i do not mean "automake". i mean the process.
mircea_popescu: this thing whereby noob sits down, pastes four commands off wiki, gets working game. every time.
mircea_popescu: this thing works. and it works in a very messy environment - gfx drivers, a raft of dependencies, etc.
mircea_popescu: oh what sweet delusion, "opengl will handle things for you".
phf: there's also a dozen of different "opengl"
mircea_popescu: in any case, the whole discussion is about "something like automake" in the sense of "gimme magic"
phf: automake is distinctly not magic. it's a text interpolation macro system. i'm pretty sure there's not even a tree shaker there (i.e. if you check for gcc, you check for gcc every time something says "i need gcc". only reason it's not done a dozen of times is because there's also a check "did i check for gcc already?". never the less all those dozen gcc checks end up in ./configure)
mircea_popescu: i don't even understand why does it parse rather than compile, for instance. seems a very nutty design decision.
phf: afaiu it's because of subtrate problem. there are some programs that are specified in posix, so they are going to be on every system. sh, m4, already compiled by vendor.
mircea_popescu: rather than "read line, check if we checked, check" wouldn't it be saner to "read all lines, create list of checks, check list" ?
phf: so you either rely on those, or you have a chicken and egg problem (how do i compile c without knowing how to compile c)
phf: programming in sh/m4 combination is not a sane thing
phf: well, so sh/m4 are dumb. one is a very primitive programming language (no portable notion of arrays for example, so "read all lines" "create a list" is not a straightforward thing), the other one is a templating language
mircea_popescu: let's work with an abstract example. suppose there's project X, which can for the purpose of configure be reduced to a list of n lines, whereby each line produces a dependency from the list of D1- D5 by the criterion that line# mod 5. so a sane autoconf will read the whole list, produce a list reading "d1, d2, d3, d4, d5" and then proceed to check these. once. five fucking checks, five lines of checking.
mircea_popescu: and sure, maybe d1 = "need to compile c code" in which case "check for d1" means "do we have a way to compile c code on this system ? ok, what is it ? and how is it invoked ? ok here we go then :"
phf: need to compile c code is already about 50 checks (do have "NULL"? do we have "malloc"?), but i follow
mircea_popescu: basically, seems to me most, or at least a good chunk of autoconf problems as described by alf come from the fact that it tries to parse, rather than compile. in the abstract sense of these terms.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: and parsing is uniquely inadequate for its task. in fact, its task is more adequate to compiling than c code is.
mircea_popescu: which really, isn't also parsed in the way lisp is also parsed because people are emotionally attached, and no other reason.
mircea_popescu: heck, gcc is not much better than a three pass parser most of the time.
phf: i think the reason is that the sh/m4 combo is particularly well suited for what you call parsing. really it's very well suited at "expanding code". it's wholly inadequate for building compilers
phf: there are no arrays. you literally don't get better storage than "text in a variable". there's very limited math. even expressing something simple "do this n times" is pain.
phf: neither were designed for programming, sh is rudimentary even by bash standards. on linux sh is linked to bash, but elsewhere you might actually encounter a barely posix take on it.
phf: hence asciilifeform's "don't compile this on VMS" comment.
phf: but fwiw even if openbsd, say, will give you a similar compilation environment, it's not going to give you bash out of the box. it's ksh, so you're back to "least common sh denominator"
phf: i say it's a chicken and egg problem, because you know you can get vendor versions of posix tools (and then still reduce the available "language" even more, by taking away some features that might be missing in nominally posix sh on some obscure system), but you can't really do anything else, until you established some truths about your environment
☟︎ phf: new takes on build systems suffer, because they rely on high level languages. and if your vendor didn't provide you with perl or python, you're back to squire one "how do i compile my build system on this machine"
mircea_popescu: ok, but i mean... so we drive nails with screwdriver because that's what we got.
mircea_popescu: of course the process and its result will be horrifying.
phf: but autoconf being at the subtrate level is testament to "unix won", its purpose to give you details about "what's unix" given the tools that are available at the most abstract level of unixness
mircea_popescu: and trying to implement a "better" autoconf, even "by hand", will not result in anything better
☟︎ mircea_popescu: except it will appear to, for a briefd interval at first. then it will create friction between purists and inclusionists, which is just about as dumb drama as livejournal disputes.
phf: i think at best it could be trimmed down, but i think even that's doable by limiting the number of m4 macros used for includes. or perhaps being very specific with what you want. "i need gcc 4" will necessarily be less messy than "i need a c compiler", considering that most of the time the program is not ready to deal with wide range of compilers anyway
phf: well, since asciilifeform's not here "let them eat nagant! wake me up when less stupid people!"
☟︎ mircea_popescu: in other, unrelated-ish sad : to this day, "web development" has no javascript tree shaker.
mircea_popescu: phf once management has put compatibility on your list of targets, you can say that all you want, best done in a mutter under own beard.
phf: fwiw trb and eulora have opposite goals as far as exposure
mircea_popescu: nothing wrong with this. but also no solution to problem.
phf: i think crystal whatever is particularly nasty take on autoconf, probably one of the best examples in support of asciilifeform's rants.
mircea_popescu: ironically, it is also one of the most solid parts of the entire codebase.
phf: only worse autoconf build i've seen was clisp, but in the later case it was written by one of autoconf authors, so while it was elaborate it was at the very least sane
mircea_popescu: anyway ; it's evident that in the future republican code will have one of the two possible profiles (trb-like ; eulora-like), not necessarily one, and certainly not necessarily the former.
phf: do you know if my changes were integrated into the release? because last time i checked the build wasn't doing autoconf, but simply using patches generated scripts.
mircea_popescu: phf eulora can't pull current cs because they fucked it up. so i wouldn't know.
phf: i went through the whole exercise of rebuilding the scripts from their respective ac files
phf: by changes i mean the homebrew build patches. pretty sure i said something about "please look at them patches" in #eulora, probably to jurov or diana_coman. i highly doubt it was done, so more suffering on their part :>
mircea_popescu: diana_coman did we eat that up or what happened do you recall ?
phf: nah, those patches were crossplatform by design
mircea_popescu: in truth we've been working on all sorts of things other than build process for months nao.
BingoBoingo: * asciilifeform brb, alcohol << AHA, S.MG is driving alf closer to rehab!
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> ok, but i mean... so we drive nails with screwdriver because that's what we got. << In that case skip nail and drive in screwdriver. Better load bearing ability, usually...
BingoBoingo: <phf> i think crystal whatever is particularly nasty take on autoconf, probably one of the best examples in support of asciilifeform's rants. << Nah, "Monero" is far worse because of what it supposes to be.
diana_coman: phf mircea_popescu I think that was probably before my time really
diana_coman: I'll search the logs to find phf's pointer and have a look at it
jurov: and www-hopper won't change much about insane clients
jurov: it can stay as a historical record, but it's currently frozen with #b-a wot and redoing wot synchronization is exactly such kind of nontrivial change
☟︎ jurov: re: eulora build system. last i saw it still carried crap like --with-hunspell . And when i tried to add configure option for ecl support.. i just gave up, it uses jam with poorly documented custom CS extensions.
☟︎ jurov: it's all much worse than just "generates big configure turds"
jurov: noone can't ever use vanilla autotools and ftjam as documented. it's absolute necessity to prove own intelligence and DRY-adherence by creatively rigging the build system.
☟︎ shinohai: When is someone finally gonna kill systemd and bury it deep.
jurov: When there will be new shiny thing in rust or something
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 09:35 jurov: it can stay as a historical record, but it's currently frozen with #b-a wot and redoing wot synchronization is exactly such kind of nontrivial change
jurov: well, the v set is like 5 people
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 11:27 jurov: re: eulora build system. last i saw it still carried crap like --with-hunspell . And when i tried to add configure option for ecl support.. i just gave up, it uses jam with poorly documented custom CS extensions.
shinohai: I like phf's setup, it is simple to go in and find which patches I need/don't need.
jurov: interesting, so the consesnus is apparently wot does not mean anything anymore and i should curate gpg keys manually?
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 03:02 mircea_popescu: basically, seems to me most, or at least a good chunk of autoconf problems as described by alf come from the fact that it tries to parse, rather than compile. in the abstract sense of these terms.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 03:11 phf: i say it's a chicken and egg problem, because you know you can get vendor versions of posix tools (and then still reduce the available "language" even more, by taking away some features that might be missing in nominally posix sh on some obscure system), but you can't really do anything else, until you established some truths about your environment
a111: Logged on 2016-08-18 22:32 asciilifeform: 'The situation is somewhat akin to a retarded girlfriend trying to flood your apartment, that not only opens all the faucets and stops all the drains, but also takes the "extremely clever" measure of puncturing the water pipes, so she can then preciously inform you that "turning off the faucets won't help" and you must work with her to somehow create a raft out of your widescreen TV so as to navigate the marshy terrain that used to b
jurov: eh, i'm in no mood to discuss deeper, whatever
jurov: you always use the most immaterial point and use it as counterargument "phee jurov doesn't want to clean his guns manually"
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 03:17 mircea_popescu: and trying to implement a "better" autoconf, even "by hand", will not result in anything better
shinohai: lol they even have `NSACareers` account
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Likely not parody. Insufficient followers.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 11:43 jurov: noone can't ever use vanilla autotools and ftjam as documented. it's absolute necessity to prove own intelligence and DRY-adherence by creatively rigging the build system.
mircea_popescu: but i think a large-ish part of hte problem is that build process per se is not actually specified.
mircea_popescu: much like the bloviating bovines / paul biggars of the world perceive bitcoin to be "a safe space for their creativity" or somesuch, similarly build process.
mircea_popescu: so it attracts a certain sort of stupid, not just in the sense of "a certain sort of stupid people", but actually a certain sort of stupid OUT OF people, even normally intelligent ones.
mircea_popescu: possibly. or alternately because nobody ever said "do it like this or i will fuck your children with many tiny bottle openers. in the eyes."
mircea_popescu: aha. in fact i suspect both issues are present, and reciprocally reinforcing.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 13:48 asciilifeform: then again, he argued - imho very successfully - against a canonical ~tree~, not against www which shows all known vpatches in tree form
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 13:52 jurov: interesting, so the consesnus is apparently wot does not mean anything anymore and i should curate gpg keys manually?
jurov: and wtf is proper wot?
mircea_popescu: the consensus in my head also is that if you keep with this whiny anal child subversive bullshit i'll bitchslap you so far up your mother's ass friends and family won't be able to reassemble the pieces.
jurov: wtf is proper wot?
a111: Logged on 2016-08-21 13:23 znort987: trinque: thx, what I was looking for.
mircea_popescu: i dun care for the content, tbh. form will carry this matter all the way it needs to go.
jurov: and what do i do with output of $wot ?
jurov: znort indeed did not resolve anything
mircea_popescu: a) you see who deedbot trusts. that is called the l1. b) you see who l1 trusts. that is called the l2.
jurov: alf says something different
jurov: only 5 ppl are in deedbot l2 ?
mircea_popescu: no, not really, but "creating the controversy" might "help".
mircea_popescu: the whole nonsense unpleasantly reminds me of that sf story about a socialist future where people got "handicaps" to match their intelligence, lest they're smarter than their stupid parents / the runts in the litter.
mircea_popescu: jurov is smart kid, gotta have some ankle weights of stupid and loud noises in inner ear lest he doesn't fit in with the idiots he originally originated with anymore.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: woman's ONLY task is to protect her male offspring from this.
mircea_popescu: do that and let them starve, it'll count as a job well done.
jurov: yes i did have handicap. because i did not ever get SANE answer "why our supposed betters ever contemplated sending zerofee tx"
jurov: sorry, the doubt is crippling
jurov: dunno if my mother has anything with that
jurov: "i made a mistake"
jurov: he did not insist chinese sank titanic
a111: Logged on 2014-11-14 19:44 mircea_popescu: maybe.
mircea_popescu: how the fuck is "sane answer" to be established via regexp with given string is what i want to know.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform a) yes i do "manual payments" ; this however does not mean i create the txn by hand. i'd think this'd be obvious ; b) any and all, this and all sorts of other resources are used to establish things about the network. i am, for the record, THE FIRST, and also for years THE ONLY both systematically sending txnfees "not needed" and pushing for others to do so. it is utterly not because i'm trying to shave pennies t
mircea_popescu: i'd guess a and esp b should be obvious. if they aren't obvious, the problem is almost certainly not what's stated.
mircea_popescu: yes, the proposition that "sane answer" === "i made a mistake" necessarily implies that as a precursor.
jurov: i am now matching mircea's answers against regexp? that was really clever retort.
mircea_popescu: and for the record, the reason we don't have an obnoxiously impudent mining cartel today is almost entirely due to that root, and its fruit.
mircea_popescu: accept that or don't, i dun particularly care nor does in fact have any effects. but history is history, rather than fantasy.
mircea_popescu: best i can discern two things : 1) derp wanted to discourage old coinbases accumulating (had intuition about the blockchain bloat didn't want to address or know how to) ; 2) fees would have been HUGE early on without this, as in, "fuck you, you wanna transact it's 50 cents. i dun care your 1k btc is enough for a pizza slice ie 2 bux"
mircea_popescu: so might well have been forced mistake because of 2, even if in all likeliness satoshi put it in because of 1
mircea_popescu: (which, incidentally, is an antipattern of software irl that's very fucking often visible. tech wants to do a "Stupid" thing for a stupid reason ; management lets them for an entirely different reason)
mircea_popescu: you srsly think this was modelled worth a crap in 2009 ?
mircea_popescu: i don't necessarily dispute that he THOUGHT about it for many years. but there's a profound difference between these two things. psychological first of all.
phf: teh log, it never stops
mircea_popescu: this is the log. there are many like it, but this one is good. it is your best friend. it is your life. you must read it like you read your wife.
phf: diana_coman: i think i didn't say enough on the subject. the core of what i did in order to get it to build on mac os x is fix autoconf scripts, if i revisit mac os x build in a couple of weeks, i'll try and provide a portable patch
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 14:01 asciilifeform: aaaaand up. lol.
phf: dat latency, digitalocean has been running on a generator and a modem past few days i think
mircea_popescu: incidentally, the only thing i can think re "digitalocean" is that place in the pacific where there's a trillion little bits of plastic, ground down by wind and sun over the decades.
mircea_popescu: phf they prolly put you behind cloudflare/homebrewed equivalent as a service or somesuch.
deedbot: Twix voiced for 30 minutes.
phf: asciilifeform: yeah, it's the worker exhaustion, but since it's my favorite threadless cmucl, situations under which "no available worker" are numerous and fantastical
phf: well, judging by logs someone did fuzzing against it
phf: a whole bunch of coherent, but bogus urls. with spaces, ? & in wrong places, etc.
mircea_popescu: you'll laugh, but the point is not so much untinkable as not valuable. ~all of them, if actually given access, will happily post links "for google to see" and that's all.
mircea_popescu: a small fraction will do the more nefarious bit of hosting pharma / child porn / whatever pages to link from OTHER wordpress / email blasts.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no , no, the ones that appear manually cranked are just the same 3-4 bots "sold" on "underground forums", but with exceptionally inept operators. such as ahmed.
mircea_popescu: nah, the reason for that is because they find you from google, or equiv, which is an approximation of "what a human would think interesting"
mircea_popescu: it's not even deliberate, just byproduct of how the process works. they'd cut it out if they knew how.
phf: speaking of wordpress, mysql keeps consistently crashing. i don't think i've had a unix daemon crash on me in the recent memory, this is a first
mircea_popescu: not that there aren't a precious few competent folk out there. but they suffer a heavy demographic burden in the form of idiot us sucking them in to "build companies" and go to conferences and waste their lives for belonging&jam-tomorrow ; and the rest are fucking busy raping nsa and such.
mircea_popescu: my angry forays into apache/mysql are in the logs. that shit sucks.
phf: oh i think maybe it's a memory issue :D i'm running it on a $5 512mb instance
phf: no, just not even registered
mircea_popescu: look through it, it has swap existing hardwire throughout.
phf: it exhausts the 512mb and quietly dies
phf: 160822 9:30:08 InnoDB: Fatal error: cannot allocate memory for the buffer pool
mircea_popescu: do we put this down to "lamp sucks" or to "operator egregious eggog" ?
phf: 512mb ought to be enough for anyone!
mircea_popescu: i thought it said so in the linux manual cca 1996, "linux can not be run without swap. don't even try."
mircea_popescu: that they stopped saying it doesn't mean anything changed ; they just thought everyone got the idea.
phf: log server runs without swap, but it's because cmucl stays within it's heap and nginx memory variance is negligible
shinohai: You can't even build prb without setting a swap space. Or at least I haven't been successful yet.
phf: also it's got couple of gigs of ram, for ~~500mb in memory log
shinohai: Nope, digital ocean droplet w 2gb
shinohai: this is just during build-from-source process.
phf: come to think of me my laptop runs without swap, because i mucked with write permissions on mac os x's swap file, but it's not ever a problem at 16gb
a111: Logged on 2016-08-12 16:31 gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: also, I'm not taking thousands in donations. jackdaniel is being paid several k to work on CLIM
phf: asciilifeform: that attention from fundraiser and marketing that gabriel_laddel was so excited about ~obviously~ attracted not talent, but the usual modernizer suspects. i'm reading their channel logs and marvel.
☟︎ phf: in the immortal words of ivan chesnokov, YOU HAVE DISEASE OF AMERICAN CAPITALIST, CHANGE THING THAT IS FINE FOR NO REASON EXCEPT TO LOOK DIFFERENT FROM COMRADE.
phf: everyone agrees "we need windows backend" obviously, stodgy and dated decisions are being gradually replaced with "modern" equivalents. someone literally used the phrase "people come to expect from modern ui"
phf: bordeaux-threads stopped building with my asdf1, i checked, someone hardcoded >3.11 check, with ~no purpose for it~. next thing i know i read "<jackdaniel> [04:44:30] but don't use clim's mp, I've reimplemented it on top of bordeaux-thread just for backward compatibility" on #clim
phf: asciilifeform: it needs work, but it's literally one of the few gui frameworks untouched by lizard hitler, unless you want to write raw xlib or tty outputs
phf: not anymore, assholes!
phf: it's modernization time
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Thing is more gossip than news. What happened? There may be a way to rewrite it into news, but it is still early this morning.
phf: asciilifeform: nobody's asking you, this is for people who want a fixer-upper. you don't want to use cmucl either, because it's half baked. it does feel just a tad "i just want to", but i can't necessarily fault you for it
phf: i'm just hoping nobody's going to do a fundraiser for it. thank god gabriel_laddel hasn't discovered it yet
phf cackles with mirth at seeing his city burn
phf: i like that story i read on livejournal long time ago. this soviet guy was telling, so he's sent to forced farming на посевы, bunch of guys digging for potatoes, middle of fucking nowhere. and then there's news, some deposed aristocrat is sent to join, so naturally jokes all around, since the toilet is a mess (it's a bunch of guys!) "how's his excellency going to use the facilities справлять нужду" "probably unaccustomed to working
phf: class living" etc. anyway, guy arrives goes to toilet, comes out, grabs a broom and a bucket and cleans it. the moral is tediously obvious (it's a fucking liverjournal story), but it stuck with me. living in orcland is kind of like that
phf: prof preobrazhensky failed at judicious application of nagant? :p
BingoBoingo: <danielpbarron> BingoBoingo, what gossip? << The signed recollection by minimally collected guy.
phf: you're gonna like this guy. he's all right. he's a good fella. he's one of us.
BingoBoingo: All pigs are equal but some pigs are more equal!
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Based on the way the guy interesctionalittitties with my WoT maybe your blog is the best place to make the point you want to make about it?
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 16:40 phf: asciilifeform: that attention from fundraiser and marketing that gabriel_laddel was so excited about ~obviously~ attracted not talent, but the usual modernizer suspects. i'm reading their channel logs and marvel.
☟︎ danielpbarron: BingoBoingo, what is the point of qntra? is it soley to bring non-republic news ~in~ or can it also be to tell republic news to the outside? I think it is certainly news that the new owner of bitbet is taking the time to speak in public (this channel)
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Qntra pointedly tells republic news to the outside, BUT znort does not at this time have a relation to anyone I know such that his signature carries more weight than rando unsigned pastebins
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 2 by 2 connections.
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: There's prolly a way to rewrite what you submitted to news it up, but as you presented it it wasn't news. Maybe a "look how unlucky this guy is" angle would help? All those misfortunes may very well involve malice on the part of persons other than him. Such an angle could be very newsy.
BingoBoingo: What you submitted at this time however was not that. You presented the signed block as basically "take this as what it is" and "here are other people doubting it" leaving unrepublican b00bs to wonder wtf?
ben_vulpes: so i'm flattening and rebuilding this barely-used macbook pro, and frames of animated language names scrolling sideways on the "what language" screen are tearing
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: The hacked email and the targeted use of it.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: ANyways where again were the lulz in "Heroic Jap Stationwagon Swats Traffic Disrupting Pedelarast" I still haven't found it.
ben_vulpes: oh just in that some saudi is going to get spirited out of the country before getting lynched
ben_vulpes: decent "us has no sovereignty, can't effect their own honor killings" angle
ben_vulpes: or "can't piss off uae sponsors of us terrorism on global stage" angle
BingoBoingo: Oh, well why did you not write it up and why would he be lynched for doing a pubic service?
danielpbarron: BingoBoingo, I don't understand your logic here. Even your criticism of znort's reputation is addressed in my copy. But whatever I'll just post it on my own blog
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Mebbe verify and submit to qntra?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: not redditola, there was a bikeportland.org link
mircea_popescu: the half that can is all natoreich, and sees 104.16.54/3
BingoBoingo: Imma have some cumpany soon, so someone get to the bottom of this other thing and submit.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> i have nfi why a usg organ in good standing needs 'attack' << Innocence washing
phf: ben_vulpes: that's what you get for installing >10.9. i tried it one a company machine, took ~~2 hours. fresh install, ssd. insanity.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Innocence washing is one of oldest SOPs
gribble: Error: Problem retrieving latest block data.
gribble: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
ben_vulpes: ;;balance 1DskTjGvWh5KVbiqnb3vvRFyEmCen1UNzL
ben_vulpes: ;;balance 1DskTjGvWh5KVbiqnb3vvRFyEmCen1UNzL
gribble: Error: invalid syntax (<string>, line 1)
mircea_popescu: also, it's not just blockchain. the relay network lost about half of its edges since an hour ago
mircea_popescu: seems ~more or less, "cloudflare turned off the chunk of bitcoin '''infrastructure''' ran by imbeciles imbecilisyh eno0ugh to rely on cloudflare"
☟︎ ben_vulpes: cloudfront is somehow involved in the relay network?
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 18:19 mircea_popescu: seems ~more or less, "cloudflare turned off the chunk of bitcoin '''infrastructure''' ran by imbeciles imbecilisyh eno0ugh to rely on cloudflare"
phf: well, that's what you get for..! oh, nevermind
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: btw what was that dating thing all about ?
mircea_popescu: in future lulz, 2b70ba3f5b9cb57fc76dba558cfe54f0b45d06433c1fc5ac454cb765e558a10865363958fcc6f4bd91c5ee43d742b8e160d74fc5e6b9232ed8d8a40cebc14e43
pete_dushenski: i dunno but bet i could fit that hash on my dong lengthwise.
pete_dushenski: “I myself am autistic,” says Reams. “Not everybody that does these elevator [videos] is autistic but I would say at least 80 to 90 percent of them are.”
pete_dushenski: "The channel is mostly filled with videos like the one described above: clips of Reams and friends riding in elevators. They ride elevators in hotels. They ride elevators in hospitals. They ride elevators in office blocks and public buildings. They film their rides in elevators. They film each other filming their rides in elevators."
mod6: this is what i've got ^
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: eddie bauer is very 'outdoorsy'. they specialise in the climbing / hiking demo. mathmaticians may or may not overlap with this set.
pete_dushenski: they're travelling more horizontally than vertically though
pete_dushenski: less likely to spear eagles, more likely to spear pigeons
phf: this looks as outdoorsy as SUVs are designed for sport
pete_dushenski: you apparently haven't seen the cayenne turbo s / grand cherokee srt8 / x6m class of sporty suvs.
shinohai: phf There was Eddie Bauer edition Ford Explorer iirc, speaking of SUV's
pete_dushenski: so there was. usual 'paint+badge edition' for american vehicles. see also 'daytona 500 edition' camaros, 'mary kay' pink cadillacs, 'hertz' mustangs
shinohai: Complete with luxury heated leather seats for those rough weekends in the mountains.
phf: i think mary kay ping cadillacs are awesome. so trashy
pete_dushenski: "We’ll underwrite up to 75% of projected energy savings" << need moar projections!!1
ben_vulpes: kinda want one of those hilariously garish 2-door caddies in a matte pink
phf: ben_vulpes: it's only worthwhile when it comes with a voluptuous russ meyer blond bimbo
phf: and gass is 20c a gallon
ben_vulpes: my popesculator says "no no, the blond comes *in* the cadillac"
☟︎ phf: and you have a pocketful of those 60s amphetamines, so you can hit every diner from chicago to springfield in 3 days, and then come back knowing exactly which one has the best milkshake
phf: asciilifeform: there's a massive hobbyist market. well to do corporate programmers spending monthly paychecks on retrohardware. when i was buying my xl1201, i was bidding against a guy, who's been doing a tech lead thing since the 90s (an unbearably aspy fellow). he said that he was so pissed he didn't get it, he put a 12k starting bid on the next one and still got it for around 6k
phf: right, so vax goes for a fraction of the cost. still same guy who put me in touch with dks, and spends 5k on each bolix, will spend fraction of that on a vax, because "it ain't bolix of course, but it's still cool"
phf: vax lisp is a thing :p
phf: but no it's just a special kind of mindset, i don't know how to else call it but people who are into "retrohardware". there's a pecking order there between "i have an amiga and a macintosh" and "i have a vax, a pdp, a ..."
phf: those people ~spend~. i mean they make the most money to put them in what used to be middle class bracket, but they don't spend it on houses and cars. instead on vaxen
phf: those machines are joy to handle though, for same reason old keyboards are pleasant. they are not "made in china", but with steel chasis out of descrete units, etc.
phf: shit, i had a store bought compaq 486, which had ~solid frame~. not bolix, but somewhere there
BingoBoingo: <pete_dushenski> BingoBoingo: btw what was that dating thing all about ? << Trilema makes it better when you let trilema into your heart
pete_dushenski: eh i'm not much for dating. tried it once. was satisfied that i'd sufficiently sorted it out. moved on.
pete_dushenski: others are free to continue. for them, i'm sure trilema will be of use with regards to cutting the gordian knot.
phf: didn't danielpbarron made a point a few times that one is not to seek a wife
ben_vulpes: nono pete_dushenski there really are no women out there worth wifing!
danielpbarron: most important is to believe in the entire Bible, the rest follows.
danielpbarron: I mean, if you don't believe, then marry or don't, it's not like adhering to the rules without faith is worth anything
pete_dushenski: dating is more signalling your own value. pre-dating / scouting is sorting.
BingoBoingo: Nah pre-dating is rought sorting. Dating is a finer sort of sorting.
BingoBoingo: WTF is this signalling my own value stuff. I have inner peace and it apparently radiates.
phf: dating is the same kind of sorting as choosing between coke and pepsi at a grocery store
phf: obviously no true scotsman!
BingoBoingo: Only the Truest Scotsman, Idi Amin, the last king of the Scots!
gribble: Current Blocks: 426412 | Current Difficulty: 2.1737548275723764E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 427391 | Next Difficulty In: 979 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 6 days, 5 hours, 39 minutes, and 21 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 583.15, vol: 4962.09361008 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 586.765, vol: 8263.83094 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 588.29, vol: 4387.8261918 | GDAX BTCUSD last: 583.46, vol: 4475.50010439 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 588.576864, vol: 46042.42140000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 588.31, vol: 672.0591571 | Gemini BTCUSD last: 587.16, vol: 1372.60688695 | OKCoin BTCUSD last: 589.72592, vol: (1 more message)
gribble: 387039.9753 | Volume-weighted last average: 589.400425341
pete_dushenski: okcoin doing 5x volume of everyone else combined ? mkay.
shinohai: Your outlook on s.qntra is rather grim though danielpbarron
BingoBoingo: Everyone has to make their own value determinations.
phf: pretty much everyone here was subjected to dpb's harsh judgement at one point or another, as is right and proper, he keeps us in check
shinohai: If I wanted echo-chamber I'd go back to reddit.
phf: it's probably because alf is nominally gentle intelligentsia, where dpb can badmouth you and you ~know~ it could be worse
phf: wonder if i could put pkgsrc on top of it
pete_dushenski: please, it's 'first nations linux'. aboriginal is so 2010.
BingoBoingo: Anyways this dispute danielpbarron raised largely relates to how different people navigate the WoT. At this point in time I'm not providing weight to low information connections.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 20:46 ben_vulpes: my popesculator says "no no, the blond comes *in* the cadillac"
pete_dushenski: ""Fratire" is a type of 21st-century fiction literature written for and marketed to young men in a politically incorrect and overtly masculine fashion. The term was coined following the popularity of works by George Ouzounian (writing under the pen name Maddox) and Tucker Max." << o.O
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Fratire (2) A clothing style favored by "preppy" folk. Combination of Fraternity and Attire.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-10 15:16 asciilifeform: incidentally, a Useful Product Idea, plug-in replacement guidance module for popular flying toys, to pick arbitrary quiet frequency spread in a reasonably broad swatch of spectrum, when remote is paired with toy, rather than the current 'legal' jammable idiocy.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: I'm pretty sure the definition of Fratire is older than the Tucker Max one by decades. Maybe even a whole century.
pete_dushenski: who knew tucker max was so progressive. reappropriating old words is libtard 101. ie. "wage slaves aren't slaves because only blacks can be slaves!!1"
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, anyone recall the original "oh i created social consensus by talking to my own sock puppets on some forum and the imbecile law firm partners BELIEVED IT" scam ?
mircea_popescu: kinda what tucker max is known for, really. notwithstanding various attempts to market self since, essentially it's "im this dude who scammed a bunch of lawyers astroturfing social media"
shinohai: I forgot to add BingoBoingo, Charlie Shrem was unavailable for comment
BingoBoingo: shinohai: He's out and there is little compelling reason to trust his take on trends anyways.
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 0 by 0 connections.
ben_vulpes: or video or whatever the variety speak is
shinohai: You know, there is a sense of accomplishment that comes from actually getting a story about ramen published in Qntra.