covertress: mircea_popescu, one of my co-panelists has a proposal for you. I'll bring it when I visit.
covertress: as I've spent a very busy few sleepless days/nights out of the country, I'll say my goodnights now
ben_vulpes: i thought that was the 'altman' thing, turns out it's the 'mcclure' thing
ben_vulpes: ohey archive won't eat the linkedin lulz
ben_vulpes: i wonder why anyone would give half a shit about an ex-conference organizer's...steak?
ben_vulpes: how does one have a steak with SAP anyways?
deedbot: indoor_jellyfish voiced for 30 minutes.
jurov: mircea_popescu: my 2016 work was just monthly reports and btc.yt maintenance, about 4hrs total. There's another 20hrs turdatron upgrade/maint but seems that went to waste.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-19 17:48 asciilifeform: in fact, iirc it is no longer even necessary to have actual dope, there are folks doing time for packets of sugar and flour.
mircea_popescu: i do of course recall alf throwing a number of hissy fits
mircea_popescu: the coupla times i used it, i recall it working (after cutting through a mess of operator error).
mircea_popescu: jurov actually, it's still the cannonical way to publish vpatches, no ?
jurov: no idea, there was supposed to be no cannonical anything with v
mircea_popescu: so if i want to publish a vpatch today, how do i go about it ?
jurov: ofc you can send it to mailing list. and to phf via deedbot, and maybe some other places i dunno?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: ah yeah, there's also deedbot process. how does that work again phf ?
jurov: so far not, but i will turn it off if something arises that needs nontrivial fix
☟︎ mircea_popescu: so far vpatch production not exactly deluvional in the first place.
☟︎ a111: Logged on 2016-08-20 14:18 jurov: so far not, but i will turn it off if something arises that needs nontrivial fix
a111: Logged on 2016-08-20 14:08 mircea_popescu: i dun recall what the problem was there.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-20 14:16 jurov: ofc you can send it to mailing list. and to phf via deedbot, and maybe some other places i dunno?
a111: Logged on 2016-08-20 14:18 mircea_popescu: so far vpatch production not exactly deluvional in the first place.
mircea_popescu: here's a nice eulora knapsack problem for anyone looking to sharpen their ACTUAL computer science skills :
☟︎ mircea_popescu: i have eight sets of "sb" (solid branch) : 503 q 222 ; 1466 q 3 ; 973 q 207 ; 983 q 252 ; 1651 q 258 ; 2963 q 189 ; 563 q 22 and 336 q 225. the first number is the count, the second the quality (depends on your mining, whatever) ; you can mix these, the game will floor the average quality. this means you can lose matter through mixing, so you want to mix stacks so as to obtain the highest possible quality final.
☟︎☟︎ diana_coman: ha, and I was just suggesting that in eulora, lol
diana_coman: but actually why pairwise only? iirc you can mix up to 16 in one go using a table, no? (if it wasn't complicated enough )
mircea_popescu: "and as it isn't ready or willing to allow clients to cash out... BANKING IS NOT A TAX (says the SCROTUK)
phf: mircea_popescu and co, there's no deedbot process. at the frequency of vpatches, whenever i see one, i just uploaded it to btcbase. and by see, i mean it's posted to a log or just mentioned
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the trend of calling them "financial products" btw smacks of the whole "they fail at trading but succeed at feeling like a trader". basically western banking is moving into las vegas' niche, which is why that port got sanded.
phf: there's periodically things that claim to be vpatches, but they don't have genesis. i think a notable example of that is v.pl, which has been published as v.pl, and then followed up by vpatches that are supposed to superseded each other rather than form a chain. generally i've seen that pattern a lot, people publish something, than publish a second vpatch, that doesn't build on previous vpatch, but supposed to replace it
phf: instead. obviously this doesn't make for pretty graphs, so i don't upload it
mircea_popescu: "what do you mean we lost your money ? YOU GOT YOUR ENTERTAINMENT PRODUCT!|
phf: ffs, than/then would be the death of me
mircea_popescu: and everyone doing that : wouldja stop fucking with the live wires and use the civilised process!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's no "a genesis". for the last fucking time.,
mircea_popescu: no sale ; no deal and no further discussion. there is A genesis, and everything else obeys this.
mircea_popescu: sure ; and there's multiple people and not everyone's yet mentally comfortable with the whole thing which is why people do the "patch replacing patch" thing.
mircea_popescu: there's places for flexibility ; but this isn't one. i dun even wanna think about "creative" solutions such as "retrocreate a genesis". just god damned it already, take the code, sign it, and then patch on the basis of that.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i dun want this sort of c-ism unix-ism microsoft-ism imported!
mircea_popescu: the process will not have been equal ; and process interests me. you can go take the results behind a shed and shoot them./
phf: asciilifeform: but there's also no existing vpatch sequence. there's N vpatches, that are all genesis children. you're supposed to know that N+1 supersedes N
phf: asciilifeform: exactly :)
mircea_popescu: and wtf with the argumentum ad populum. i care "what people do" about as much as i care about "probable results"
mircea_popescu: tell you what : i remember the process just fine ; has nothing to do with "the recorded result".
mircea_popescu: mostly because the recorded result is so far pretty fucking distant from itself.
mircea_popescu: i'm sure he will ; but the important point here is not that as much as the principle of teh thing.
phf: asciilifeform: i did, he said something about "this being work in progress and don't want to commit" or somesuch
phf: so i think mircea_popescu has alergy to broken thinking, which is there plenty. retrofitting "equivalent solution" in this case is going to mask the fact that the process was not v, but something else entirely made to look like v post factum. you might as well export git history into v patches
mircea_popescu: i get it, it's pretty fucking revolutionarily wild, and taken seriously teh mind needs some time to digest the whole thing. not a problem. but in the meanwhile gotta keep things clean so the poor soul actually has a port to come to when he comes.
mircea_popescu: anyway - the more general point here, important and boldly underlined, is that WE ARE NOT RESULTS DRIVEN. the "results", factual or probable, certain or disputed, are no part of the fucking decision process.
mircea_popescu: for that matter, i daresay i've seen the sad fruits of "results-oriented programming" for lo these many decades, and in honestly i could have done with a whole lot less of it.
mircea_popescu: yes, but at some point you will have, in all protocols that actually exist, some level of promise.
mircea_popescu: there's "promise" in the bitcoin protocol that you'll type digits where the digits go.
mircea_popescu: exactly nothing burns down if you do stupid shit to early v projects, much like exactly nothing burns down if instead of using the keyboard normally, you try typing with your big toes.
mircea_popescu: that STILL doesn't mean bigtoe typing is going to be well regarded.
shinohai: You can trust my pruned blockchain, which has in no way whatsoever been altered, pinky swear!
shinohai: This is the slowest news month for Qntra since I started contributing.
shinohai: I literally can't make a story on anything last few days
BingoBoingo: Everything tends to go to shit and become news at once.
BingoBoingo: Maybe see if any lulz is happening in metals markets? Skip the precious stuff though because boring.
mod6: ah, good. been raining a ton up here. good for the veggies though.
mod6: the mosquitos are flying in squadrons
☟︎ shinohai: lol, we have storms in forecast so I look forward to evening at home with good muscadine wine.
mod6: is that a local wine deal?
shinohai: Yeah kind of a local thing. I have a really hard time finding it in other places.
diana_coman: hi mod6 how's that eulora-box thing going? :D
mod6: <+diana_coman> hi mod6 how's that eulora-box thing going? :D << hi!! it's not going exactly yet. been kinda caught up. i need to get a box for that. will do, soonish.
mod6: well, actually, i've got this box just sitting here... its new.
mod6: i put obsd on it, had some plans for it... but now it's been idle for like... oh... eight months.
mod6: maybe i should yield and throw ubuntu on it and make that the new eulora box.
mod6: yeah, but bsd isnt going to cut the mustard for all the things eulora related.
mod6: and, yah, maybe it'd be something else other than ubuntu, but *shrug*.
mod6: yeah, probably would shinohai
shinohai: It works fine for me, just the video issues I had, but others assure me the chetty mod would fix.
phf: only thing i can't figure out with asciilifeform's killfile is how to get laptop to do apm related stuff. the main package depends on dbus
☟︎ mod6: <+mircea_popescu> so if i want to publish a vpatch today, how do i go about it ? <+jurov> ofc you can send it to mailing list. and to phf via deedbot, and maybe some other places i dunno? << i always just send mine to the ml
mod6: i probably should also, update phf.
mod6: <+phf> there's periodically things that claim to be vpatches, but they don't have genesis. i think a notable example of that is v.pl, which has been published as v.pl, and then followed up by vpatches that are supposed to superseded each other rather than form a chain. generally i've seen that pattern a lot, people publish something, than publish a second vpatch, that doesn't build on previous vpatch, but su
mod6: pposed to replace it <+phf> instead. obviously this doesn't make for pretty graphs, so i don't upload it << yup. there's a planned vpatch for this. bunch of discussions. just been focusing my attention on trb build stuff lately.
mod6: <+phf> asciilifeform: i did, he said something about "this being work in progress and don't want to commit" or somesuch << i could regrind them, yeah. ideally, each who want to use these unexamined items should do so on their own accord, placing them in their patches directory as a "WILD" patch. Until the day when the foundation moves forward and folds them in after examination and testing.
☟︎ mod6: so if i see the "dump priv key" patch out there on btcbase or found somewhere else (it's not included in the patches in thebitcoin.foundation's site), then i'd pull that vpatch down, regrind it myself, and place it into patches where I can apply it myself as a "WILD" patch.
danielpbarron: mod6, shinohai, why not gentoo ?? (i run eulora on gentoo btw)
mod6: i just laughed because of the previous tribulations with gentoo. i'm fine with it now that i'm over that hump.
shinohai: I haven't tried Eulora build on Gentoo yet, only got one box w/gentoo
☟︎ mod6: well, mainly. i guess. the emerge thing still gets me from time to time.
danielpbarron: i can't imagine there is a better environment to build and run it in, granted getting a working gentoo might be the hard part
mod6: i'd say that gentoo would probably make a fine box for eulora.
danielpbarron: it's no so hard. I mean if I can do it then there must not be any excuses
mod6: im pretty dumb, danielpbarron :]
mod6: anyway, im sure it would work fine. at the same time, not sure i'd want to spend hours/days setting up a box for eulora.
danielpbarron: i only feel smart about computers when i'm among people not-in-here
☟︎ danielpbarron: once it's set up, it can run automatically while you do other things
danielpbarron: for example, barehanded gathering all day. have an elder set you up with some bits and threads and check back in a week
mod6: and i guess furthermore, if it's needed for me to regrind these four vpatches as a service for others...
mod6: i certainly could do that.
mod6: the goal is and remains this: get the trb build infrastructure completed, once and for all. close out this portion of development with the completion of that (Makefiles) and a subsequent tying vpatch to mark the milestone.
☟︎☟︎ mod6: Then all newer things that have been submitted can be examined/tested etc.
mod6: And the problem is, if I regrind & sign these patches now, it'd just have to do it again after these other two things are complete anyway.
mod6: This work is getting pretty exciting actually.
mod6: I've got 14 new deeds that I'm about ready to sign and have tested before feeding them to deedbot.
mod6: shinohai, trinque, care to help review these before the feeding?
mod6: danielpbarron: here's a qq, were you ever able to successfully build bitcoind with the build-bitcoind-V99994.sh ?
mod6: because if so, I think it's had enough testing to send along to the ML and website. get all that updated so people can use that.
phf: mod6: i don't think you understood what we were saying, but certainly nobody's expecting you to grind vpatches as a "service to others", so please don't
mod6: Oh? Well, perhaps not.
mod6: I can certainly help with that process if someone wants to do this on their own.
mod6: But yeah, will certainly be reviewing those and regrinding them as needed if they pass the vetting process and are added to the tree.
mod6: No apology required. Was just checking incase I missed something there.
mod6: I'll give it another week, sound ok?
deedbot: meuh voiced for 30 minutes.
covertress: mircea_popescu, I bring fond greetings from a gun-toting, tannerite-shooting, ivy league, master of dining ettiquette.
shinohai: And those are just the reasons you'll hate him!
mircea_popescu: "On Thursday following their acquisition by Univision, Gawker media announced that their former flagship Gawker.com would be shuttered next week." << lol. "all the 'jouralists' have been reclassified as actresses (which is what they always hoped for anyway), playing ugly betty in the 194 unilever sitcoms currently under production. this translates to a 85% pay increase across the board, and their spoken lines will be drastica
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell bingoboingo "Following the news of a serious RNG bug affecting all GPG versions a low energy shitgnome campaign of apologetics and "not that bad" followed." << can i get a "The fact that hundreds of GPG keys have been Phuctored in the past year has, of course, nothing to do with all this." added ?
covertress: mircea_popescu, I'll elaborate when I bring his proposal, in person.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: suppose you tell whoever to go through the motions himself.
mircea_popescu: then fuck him. i specifically do not wish to hear anything he has to say.
mircea_popescu: and that rather goes for you too : the log is here to make you less stupid. spend at least 100x as much reading it as you spend writing into it, and certainly do not eat anything in any day you've not read at least a thousand lines.
covertress: more specifically, he cannot be seen here.
covertress: imo, it diminishes yours for not agreeing to listen to his proposal.
phf: yeah, i just noticed :> one sec
mircea_popescu: we'll end up with a ring of axxx's working together to mutually inhibit each other so only one thing ends in logs. like retina cells.
mircea_popescu: we'll end up with a ring of axxx's working together to mutually inhibit each other so only one thing ends in logs. like retina cells.
mircea_popescu: we'll end up with a ring of axxx's working together to mutually inhibit each other so only one thing ends in logs. like retina cells.
a111: Logged on 2016-08-20 21:08 shinohai: I haven't tried Eulora build on Gentoo yet, only got one box w/gentoo
a111: Logged on 2016-08-20 21:10 danielpbarron: i only feel smart about computers when i'm among people not-in-here
a111: Logged on 2016-08-20 21:17 mod6: the goal is and remains this: get the trb build infrastructure completed, once and for all. close out this portion of development with the completion of that (Makefiles) and a subsequent tying vpatch to mark the milestone.
shinohai: +mircea_popescu why not try playing it lol. you just wanna compile thangs ? lol, this is why I stick more on trb side of things xD
mircea_popescu: there was another guy like that. someone shjould make "compile-the rpg"