danielpbarron: Please note: Initial deposit amounts exceeding +30 bitcoin will qualify your membership for a 2nd level upgrade. << MPEx sets the standard
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22319 @ 0.00025219 = 5.6286 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: You want to write this one up?
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 244.55, vol: 11594.32792055 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 243.326, vol: 7726.90295 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 244.91, vol: 39772.9444729 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 243.329788, vol: 128921.67480000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 249.45692, vol: 13.68792084 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 253.077009989, vol: 133.44500285 | Volume-weighted last average: 243.746195825
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45050 @ 0.00025061 = 11.29 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I've no seen any reason other than "pissing contest"
TomServo is the proud owner of 'adulterated' pogo.
TomServo: Now to figure out these u-bout and buildroot things.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80376 @ 0.00025024 = 20.1133 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17700 @ 0.00024978 = 4.4211 BTC [-] {2}
ben_vulpes: TomServo: have you accomplished netconsole yet?
ben_vulpes: bitcoinrpg -> control the network quest -> bitcoind quest (now apparently depends on buildroot quest, which depends on gentoo quest, so may as well pogoquest as well)
ben_vulpes: i need a fucking quest tree to keep track of all this shit
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Like with executions I imagine they will try to put a medical veneer on it.
TomServo: ben_vulpes: sorry, had to reference danielpbarron's docs.. you're referring to enabling SSH access?
ben_vulpes: no, the part where pogo boots and then attaches to a nc instance running on your host machine
TomServo: Negative... I enabled SSH and waited for my USB>TTY convertors to arrive
ben_vulpes: TomServo: oh, you've actually cracked the case and everything?
TomServo: heh, I guess? Seems like an awful way to learn soldering, I'll say that.
TomServo: I was surprised I got it working.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 88200 @ 0.00024767 = 21.8445 BTC [-] {4}
TomServo: Couple snips of the plastic allowed me to poke the wires through.
TomServo: The ridges over the ventilation holes in the bottom.
BingoBoingo: "Shockingly, only 27 percent of doctors could correctly diagnosis malaria with anemia, and 29 percent could correctly diagnose diarrhea with severe dehydration" << WTF
ben_vulpes: cops are scawwy what with their failure to understand basic physics
ben_vulpes: third world nomenclature isn't really my thing.
decimation: asciilifeform: actually I would posit that the us mostly has a 'Gendarmerie'
ben_vulpes: decimation: don't cities operate their own police force?
ben_vulpes: maybe this socialist utopia's the last holdout. federales have been leaning hard on them for cracking a few too many crackpot brainpans, and beating up on brown folks.
BingoBoingo: In my understanding outside of very large cities, grants tend to push local police toward the most tedious tasks
decimation: after all it's not like the fbi can't come up with an excuse to arrest you if they wish
ben_vulpes: i accidentally a stop sign at oh 30 mph on my bike the other day, right in front of a copper.
ben_vulpes: thirty seconds later, "you know, i'm not the sort of guy to insist on a full foot-down stop from bikers at every stop sign. but DUDE! you came through that intersection at easily over 20 mph!"
decimation: usg paid $bil to hollow out mountain, then paid $$ to modernize it after 2001, then decided it was 'too small' in 2006 (apparently nukes weren't a concern anymore) and now has suddenly seen wisdom in moving back into the bunker
decimation: asciilifeform: you can imagine how it would cramp the style of a high ranking usg 'staffer' to report for duty inside a hole
decimation: it's amazing how the interests of the 'public at large' (even 'usg at large') can be usurped by some bureaucrat who likes a nice window office
BingoBoingo wonders what is being done with Yucca mountain since it hasn't been filled with rads
decimation: but here's the thing: apparently even the nuclear defense/attack commanders have been 'cixi-ized'
decimation: in the late 50's and 60's the nuclear force was largely run by actual people, who had agendas that made sense
decimation: there are plenty of folks who are willing to pose with 'a hand on the captain's wheel'
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform, decimation: 'cixi' << a reference to the dowager empress?
ben_vulpes: and the analogue here is "holes are unpleasant"?
decimation: of course reddit doesn't even need to pay employees, what with having a vast reservoir of people who would gladly pay to work there
ben_vulpes: entirely transparent project to reduce hiring costs
ben_vulpes: jesus i will never live that squeeze thing down
assbot: Logged on 22-10-2014 17:16:44; mats_cd03: this sounds like something i want to be involved in
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36400 @ 0.00026491 = 9.6427 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: But in the spirit of thumbing one’s nose at government overreach, here’s a sampling of unofficial, but highly reputable statistics about Tanzania that might explain what’s going on.
mircea_popescu: Like many other African countries, Tanzania has made huge strides in expanding basic services like health and education. The primary school enrollment rate, for instance, is officially at 94%. But “unofficial” statistics suggest the quality of those services is often quite poor.
mircea_popescu: hey look at that. tanzanian kids read about as well as us kids.
mircea_popescu: except, of course, english is about as relevant to tanzania as korean to the us.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22300 @ 0.00026839 = 5.9851 BTC [+]
ben_vulpes: trinque: i need those legacy deeds in deedbot.
mircea_popescu: decimation yea, i'm sure THAT's why they don't negotiate.
mircea_popescu: not because economy's dead and whoever has "investors" to connect them to the printing teat can simply dictate terms.
mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> entirely transparent project to reduce hiring costs << moar like, entirely transparent admission that "well, mp said he's killing us, we're as good as dead, might as well give up"
ben_vulpes: boss your penchant for recasting everything as a result of your own actions is endlessly amusing
trinque: ben_vulpes: alright, I'll put 'em in
ben_vulpes: apropos of nothing, what kind of retarded programming situation *even permits* for the bitcoin reward overflow bug in the first place?!
ben_vulpes: trinque: thanks man. there's a lot of rebel foundation stuff in there i need published again.
trinque: ben_vulpes: no problemo; doin it now
mircea_popescu: 3. The group is of the opinion that their work was being overlooked because of their politics, and that the Hugo ballots and winners of the last several years were only awarded due to leftist politics and the racial/sexual/gender identities of their authors, not quality. The tenor of the call to arms was explicitly and often resoundingly political–“this is your chance to hurt SJWs.” If you don’t know what an SJ
mircea_popescu: W is, I hope you’re enjoying your new computer. It stands for Social Justice Warrior, which to a normal person sounds like someone who fights for justice and cares about all human beings, and to conservatives like the devil himself. The implication that they then must support injustice seems to be lost.
mircea_popescu: really, opposing "social justice" implies one supports... injustice ? how about the obvious "social-anything is stupid, for many reasons we won't rehash, and never has anything to do with the vanilla version" ?
mircea_popescu: "4. None of this is strictly speaking against the rules. It’s unethical. It’s almost laughably petty and mean-spirited."
mircea_popescu: o wait. bitching at excellent scientists because they didn't say stupid-thing-x-about-our-aggenda is not laughably petty and outright idiotic.
mircea_popescu: ".And to an author of integrity, it’s a pointless act of bullying, because if you don’t compete against the best, an award is meaningless."
mircea_popescu: right. and brokeback mountain isn't an endless piece of meaningless cheese. because polarities.
nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> right. and brokeback mountain isn't an endless piece of meaningless cheese. because polarities. <<< in fairness, the book was under 100 pages
ben_vulpes: here's to the minimum wage and full employment!
mircea_popescu: The ballot looks ridiculous. John C. Wright has three nominations in the novella category and six overall, a record. The vast majority of the works are published by Castalia House, a Finnish micropublisher barely a year old and owned, I’m sure coincidentally, by Vox Day. Wisdom From My Internet, nominated in the Best Related Work category, is neither science fiction, nor, strictly speaking, a book, (Edit: many things
mircea_popescu: not books have been nominated in the category, let’s say it’s not an original work) but a collection of right-wing chain emails and one liners–which, among other works
ben_vulpes: may it drain the usg's coffers and drive her to hitherto unprecedented printing sprees.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` ^ exactly like that, but in the other stupid colors.
nubbins`: <+ben_vulpes> boss your penchant for recasting everything as a result of your own actions is endlessly amusing <<< i came for the btc, stayed for the lels
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally - amway never took off in romania.
mircea_popescu: reason ? unattached youngish female begging people is usually offered a junior mistress arrangement.
nubbins`: <+asciilifeform> (tenure does not exist in canada?) <<< canada's like a miniature version of usa set back a few years.
decimation: I bet cultures that are largely 'peer to peer' are immune to 'multi-level marketing'
mircea_popescu: i suppose one needs the particular idiocies of the us for the particular forms of the us idiocy to manifest.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 147950 @ 0.0002579 = 38.1563 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: <nubbins`> <+ben_vulpes> boss your penchant for recasting everything as a result of your own actions is endlessly amusing <<< i came for the btc, stayed for the lels << hey, if obama can save the economy...
decimation: I was thinking in the sense that 'why should I buy from your dumbass amway when I already have a guy for that'
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: you savvy "food stamps"?
mircea_popescu: decimation no, it's more like "why would a pretty girl like you go do this whorish stupid thing ?"
decimation: in the us most of these schemes are 'sold
ben_vulpes: surely i'm not that drunk yet i thought we were talking of ilka
trinque: punkman: hey dude, what's the encoding of the old deeds table's deed field?
trinque: punkman: it's a blob with dunno what inside
nubbins`: i'm making breakfast cereal from scratch :o
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: that is what i thought!
nubbins`: mircea_popescu special sour yeast starter 8)
nubbins`: "have a scratch, then bake it; natch"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10552 @ 0.000251 = 2.6486 BTC [-]
nubbins`: srs tho, been making cereal for about a month now. top yum
ben_vulpes: i already have my own poet, can't be arsed with more.
nubbins`: i may never buy honey shreddies again
ben_vulpes: failed to satisfy master while starving, time...
trinque: that prominent mons scared my weechat
assbot: Could we make a "silk road for medicine", where users can buy not only medicine, but medical advice? Tipping for feedback. : Bitcoin ... (
http://bit.ly/1anI1ga )
nubbins`: sorry, i know all i'm doing is pasting links today
nubbins`: the guy is proposing to merge the silk road with yahoo! answers
nubbins`: "Hi, I'm an attorney. I want to describe what I consider to be inherent problems with this."
danielpbarron: BingoBoingo, did you intend to move the first footnote? I meant for it to go with the sentence about where Coinbase's response came from.
trinque: nubbins`: that black chick that was doing the cement ass injections would be great for the site
nubbins`: i can only imagine the horrors behind that statement. agreed.
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: I did. Not a fan of footnotes above the read more link, looks confusing on the front page.
trinque: asciilifeform: with a name like that how could you not inject into your arse?
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> i and everybody else have it in my car, in the box in the back where the fire extinguisher etc. is kept << Wait your fire extinguisher isn't under the seat?
ben_vulpes: trinque: gawker and friends are blocked at /etc/hosts on babetops
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> (for non-u.s. folks - a product consisting of an aerosol tin with a hose and a pull ring. hose attaches to flat tire, pull ring, contents - a sort of rubbery foam - released into tire in lieu of air) << Also pretty much guarentees you need a new wheel after use
trinque: later... "BingoBoingo | bitch my whole car is a fire extinguisher"
decimation: BingoBoingo: yeah but the point is to inflate wheel enough to make it to tire vendor
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Amall dry powder in passenger compartment, CO2 in trunk except summers
BingoBoingo: decimation: That's what undersized spare in trunk is for
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: So you don't have a "dining fly" style tarp rig in your trunk?
trinque: also if you're a tranny it makes for great womanly curves
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The fix a flat adheres to the wheel's metal. Also tends to deploy unevenly. wheels in the best case need scraped after use, in worst case become malformed
nubbins`: "Update: Some of you have suggested that Morris might have body dysmorphic disorder. If that's the case, we hope she finds a professional who can guide her away from excessive plastic surgeries and toward self-acceptance."
nubbins`: "sorry, we didn't realize this obvious mental illness had a name"
BingoBoingo: decimation: "a while" is not a very precise measurement
BingoBoingo always been sold on not using fix a flat without first person experience.
BingoBoingo also generally suspicious of build quality of vehicle parts
mircea_popescu: nubbins` for my curiosity, when are you gonna get bored with it ?
nubbins`: <+asciilifeform> e.g. amputation fetishist gets amputation, etc. <<< met a girl once who'd self-amputated her fingertip, doctors didn't think too much of it
nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> nubbins` for my curiosity, when are you gonna get bored with it ? <<< now-ish
nubbins`: apparently chisels are popular
trinque: they'll make a "subculture" out of anything
mircea_popescu: <nubbins`> the guy is proposing to merge the silk road with yahoo! answers << well, they already implemented "yahoo finance boards" as "bitcoin finance"
trinque: kitten stomping, dick hammering, you name it
trinque: what will the kids think of next
nubbins`: trinque what's wrong with dick hammering?
decimation: I don't get how one gets from "want to cut" to "imma cut my fukin' fingertip off'
nubbins`: i actually read a handful of stories from self-amputees over the years
mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> trinque: gawker and friends are blocked at /etc/hosts on babetops << what sort of an abusive relationsheep is this!
trinque: asciilifeform: nah dueling has no victim
trinque: nubbins`: seems like incremental suicide
decimation: maybe if my hand is dead that's like suicide?
nubbins`: trinque waking up every day is incremental suicide
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> wai wat is a 'babetop' ? << Tits???
trinque: not like I've never felt pain, but I don't see the point in losing parts
assbot: De-Fingered: Finger Amputation Interviews in BME/News [Publisher's Ring] | BME: Tattoo, Piercing and Body Modification News ... (
http://bit.ly/1anMnE6 )
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: you know how it is when they come to you asking for the right decisions to be made.
trinque: seems like humans will a) accept any category they've heard about a certain number of times and b) compete with each other as examples of that category
decimation: sure why not make a subreddit where sick fucks can egg each other on
decimation: maybe a subreddit discussing why "i don't negotiate because reasons"
mircea_popescu: no further than tonight, girl got sent to bed early because well, bought eggs at carefour.
nubbins`: asciilifeform he couldn't saw it off himself, so he froze it with dry ice and went to the hospital
nubbins`: where they kindly removed it for him
mircea_popescu: but the idea isn't to make stupid shit impossible. just punishable.
ben_vulpes: (the correct procurement point being avicar, clearly)
decimation: yeah, but then you gotta go back to mining uranium without hand
ben_vulpes: what was she doing at carefour anyways?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: hey avicar had great eggs
assbot: Interview with James Keen; a young, heavily modified, eunuch. | BME: Tattoo, Piercing and Body Modification News ... (
http://bit.ly/1cbfxYa )
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes prolly looking for gawker magazine, fuck if i know.
nubbins`: ^ i actually watched this guy go from a vanilla fat kid into what you see in the first picture
decimation: if you feel like hacking your foot off, can I eat it?
nubbins`: over the course of maybe 2-3 years
trinque: cannot comprehend a person who cuts off his own balls
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: gawker magazine << hawww
trinque: other than it must be a few notches below suicide
trinque: genetic suicide or something
ben_vulpes: and now there are three, asciilifeform
trinque: "but dude... you are... hmmm.. *you*."
decimation: ". I remember as my second testicle was being clipped from the body, it was an expierence I won’t forget! The feeling of YES it is finally done! I remember it all like yesterday. Months after, and I’m talking 3-4 months of not taking testosterone shots or anything, I started getting hot flashes."
mircea_popescu: i'd really like to get with the program here and think "hey, more power to em", but the vast majority of the self improvers are just deranged.
ben_vulpes: i actually *let my piercings close up*
decimation: ^ which is why they need to be put back to mining U instead of letting them wollow in 'tardation
trinque: ben_vulpes: yeah I had pierced ears
mircea_popescu: decimation i dun believe anyone's stupidity is anyone else's responsibility.
ben_vulpes: but i'm probably fully in the deranged category
bitstein: DKIM?" So that worked out well for them.
ben_vulpes: trinque: i had a subcutaneous piercing across the back of my neck
nubbins`: that said, there are plenty of people who cut off a fingertip, tattoo their face, cut their nuts off, w/e... and then just go on to lead a normal, happy life
decimation: I guess as long as they are hacking their own feet off and not mine
nubbins`: they're in the clear minority, sure
mircea_popescu: bitstein the thing with idiots is that they will continue to think they know better indefinitely.
ben_vulpes: trinque: i'll show you the vampire bite sometime
mircea_popescu: hopefully they run out of money and then they vcan go on thinking they knew better with the winklevii and the rest of the dumbcrowd.
nubbins`: <+ben_vulpes> trinque: i had a subcutaneous piercing across the back of my neck << hah no wai
nubbins`: i had the frenulum under my tongue pierced
bitstein: mircea_popescu: I don't think we ever expected them to actually implement it. We just enjoy publicly shaming wallet inspectors.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` "leading normal happy life" is not the gold standard.
ben_vulpes: bitstein: y'all reconcile over the megablocks yet?
nubbins`: mircea_popescu for someone who has to cut off a finger to achieve it... it probably is
☟︎ trinque: I'm still staring at this guy's severed finger
decimation: nubbins`: when my baby boy was born the doctor said "his frenulum is really long, you want me to snip it"?
ben_vulpes: nubbins`: if you need "a thing" to achieve it, you'll soon want another "thing"
danielpbarron: i wasn't suggesting coinbase gpg sign all outgoing email, as such a thing would be pointless if automated, and impossible if not
mircea_popescu: moreover, people who think they achieved hapiness are the golden standard of deranged.
nubbins`: ben_vulpes if you need to cum to relax, you'll soon want to cum again
decimation: a turd sandwich sounds delicious to someone about the starve to death
decimation: nubbins`: no, and he did just fine. supposedly it would 'prevent nursing'
nubbins`: decimation if it ends up a problem down the road, people have it done as adults all the time
BingoBoingo: bitspill: DKIM used to be a popular spamzor turd at first, guarenteed to hit yahoo accounts
nubbins`: mircea_popescu you don't think cutting the fingertips off is pleasurable for these people?
bitstein: ben_vulpes: I've been busy thinking about other things. I have some articles to review, though, that touch the subject. So we'll see if anyone comes to any new conclusions.
nubbins`: pleasure centers are funny things
trinque: seems like the finger cutting wants an audience
nubbins`: since when is deranged a negative!
nubbins`: asciilifeform unsurprisingly there's a massive overlap between "body mod" world and bdsm
trinque: miles of difference between getting choked or whatever and cutting off body parts
ben_vulpes: punkman: yo i need legacy deed specifications. get in touch with trinque, if you'd be so kind.
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell punkman yo i need legacy deed specifications. get in touch with trinque, if you'd be so kind.
mircea_popescu: there's a large overlap between idiotic sjw types, fair going lice-in-hair types, gender-and-social-role-issues types and perceived-scandalous-stuff types.
Chillum: almost spit gin and tonic out my nose nubbins`
trinque: I knew someone who was a "cutter"
trinque: and it was invariably about the attention after the act
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform and for the record, the overlap between bdsm and "scenes" is roughly the overlap between human sexuality and brazzers.
nubbins`: mircea_popescu and there isn't an overlap between the two groups who agree "hurty things are nice". gotcha
mircea_popescu: nubbins` if your idea of bdsm is "hurty things are nice" and idem of body mods, the problem is this will overlap anything.
nubbins`: you know there's still no option for "none of the above" here?
mircea_popescu: anyway. the pain per se is rarely sought by the body mod crowd. as trinque points out, attention whoring much higher on the list.
mircea_popescu: similarly, more people in bdsm are after the humiliation than the straight pain.
mircea_popescu: so... you know, picking something way down off the list of either doesn't make much of a connection
nubbins`: in fairness, i went way farther down the mod rabbit hole than most
nubbins`: i've met some extremely complicated people over the years
nubbins`: good, 'cause i didn't get that impression
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well the masochists you imagine and the masochists you'll encounter are guaranteed to never meet.
mircea_popescu: for one thing, actual masochism is quite rare. about as rare as actual homosexuals.
mircea_popescu: whereas, plain female submission (either natural, or else imprinted/misdeveloped) is quite common.
mircea_popescu: women to some degree are coded to neglect pain or else they'd never get pregnant.
nubbins`: knew a guy who went by the name "mal" who was in the process of letting his wife cut his dick off
mircea_popescu: imagine you just found out how to neglect noise in a noisy room
mircea_popescu: narrow space in the head, so everything ends up the other thing all the time. broken shit.
nubbins`: he ended up getting divorced in the end, which was a bit of a kick in his absent nuts
nubbins`: but at least he has a bifurcated penis for his troubles now
mircea_popescu: nubbins` i knew of a guy who was a total slob, ended up giving himself renal failure.
mircea_popescu: wife gave him a kidney (they matched), he cleanned up his act
nubbins`: hm, you ever watch Lost? i guess not
trinque: asciilifeform: hm, maybe I didn't describe the situation I know of fully. she mentioned that it cleared her head a couple times
nubbins`: anyway, in the show, there's this old man, john locke. hard life, series of misfortunes. finds his dad as an adult, befriends him, everything's great
trinque: I think a pathological way to do so, but maybe there was something there other than just the narcissism, though that factored in
nubbins`: john wakes up in the recovery room after donating said kidney -- dad had checked out an hour earlier, never to be seen again
mircea_popescu: actually, i now recall there was this ancient... czech maybe ? film, about a stamp collector
nubbins`: he tracks his dad down, they argue, dad pushes him out a 7th floor window, paralyzing him
mircea_popescu: and they tricked him with a rare stamp, guy lost a kidney.
trinque: I think I'd have to not consider my body to be "me" to be able to cut off a finger..
trinque: seems like magical thinking just as bad as any religious nut
nubbins`: trinque what about "thinking" is not magical to you?
trinque: that's what I mean, able to rationalize it
trinque: asciilifeform: I agree up to the point where they try to make the body fit the "mind"
trinque: instead of saying look kid, you've got a penis
mircea_popescu: yeah, because god forbid their stupid "mind" ie narciself ever has to adapt to anything.
Chillum: I have been looking into laser cutters. I have seen this aluminum with a black anodized layer. The laser can blast off the black layer to give strong contrasting metal images. I am thinking it may be a good way to make very long term(decades) bitcoin wallets
nubbins`: "nineteen eighty-four" with an all-female cast!
nubbins`: this is right before the "FOREVER"
Chillum: not sure if you can anodize bronze
Chillum: it has the advantage of being extremely durable
mircea_popescu: nubbins` it wouldn't work, imo. 1984 so deeply depends on very male erotic sentiment.
trinque: nubbins`: by magical thinking I mean the kind which simply tries to declare things to be other than they are
Chillum: aluminum insulates itself from corrosion once it gets a thin layer
Chillum: mircea_popescu: if it can be anodized then bronze would be a great way to go
Chillum: there are bronze items going back to... well the bronze age
nubbins`: like how the salaryman declares himself to be confident before asking for the promotion?
mircea_popescu: actually the bronze age items will still be imperceptibly altered long after new york is barely a flat spot in the sediment record.
trinque: nubbins`: whatever bullshit rituals work for him
Chillum: just googled it, anodized bronze sheets are available
trinque: nubbins`: he could simply decide that he is going to ask for the thing, and do it
Chillum: could work. The problem is that everyone needs their own laser cutter as you cannot trust another to make a key for you
nubbins`: sure. he could simply decide fuck this, i don't want this dick, what good's it anyway, too
trinque: nubbins`: I'm not gonna stop him
nubbins`: of course you're not. how could you?
Chillum: cutting metal is a no-go for co2 lasers, not going to spend 20k+ on a metal cutter
Chillum: but zapping off 1-2mm thick layers of anodization is doable
trinque: nubbins`: this gets into "everything's relative" and I don't really subscribe to that
Chillum: true but beyond a certain power other types of lasers make more sense
trinque: what would happen if every man cut off his dick
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36300 @ 0.00025557 = 9.2772 BTC [+]
nubbins`: the laws of probability would have broken down
nubbins`: and we'd have bigger problems.
nubbins`: like, say, the lineup at the dick-scissor store.
Chillum: asciilifeform: I am for a larger place to live, then I will be getting one. Will certainly be doing a lot of research first
nubbins`: trinque it kinda seems like you're arguing people cut their dicks off /on a whim/
trinque: +nubbins` | like, say, the lineup at the dick-scissor store. < ahahha
decimation: does usg even allow you to possess a laser like that without permission?
trinque: nubbins`: nah it seems like... a big deal
trinque: maybe life is just too boring for them?
trinque: they'd rather be hacking enemies with axes or god knows what
Chillum: I don't expect to cut metal
trinque: nubbins`: I was actually looking for an explanation for the thing
trinque: that one sort of works... "I'm wired to experience far more pain and risk than I've ever seen in this boring life"
Chillum: I expect to remove a layer of foil, laminent or anodization from metal
trinque: just seems a bad substitute for whatever used to satisfy it, if that's so
decimation: asciilifeform: wouldn't most of the photons get reflected dangerously around the area?
Chillum: it would be nice to cut PCBs but not going to happen in my price range
nubbins`: trinque people who feel they're being cheated of pain and risk usually take up dangerous hobbies
decimation: Chillum: why not use milling bit to mill pcb?
trinque: nubbins`: I was talking about the guy who chops his finger off
trinque: nubbins`: what do you think it is?
nubbins`: oh, jeez. you're jumping back and forth.
Chillum: decimation: it is cheaper to just use ferric chloride
trinque: nubbins`: yeah this one time..
nubbins`: i mean, REALLY, REALLY wanted to
nubbins`: multiply that by 1000, and make it about having a pussy instead of a dick.
Chillum: etched PCB wallets is something I tried
trinque: nubbins`: but was the guy getting his dick chopped off one of those?
trinque: turns out though that we don't know how to make men into women
trinque: we just know how to turn a dick inside out and sew it inside
nubbins`: what i'm trying to say is that it's impossible for me, or you, to say what any individual's motivations are when doing something this extreme
trinque: nubbins`: I'll agree with that
decimation: if you want to make a 'long life wallet' just get a small sheet of bronze and hand-etch with 'hand engraver' for 10 bux
nubbins`: what's the most complicated personal crisis you've had to deal with?
trinque: nubbins`: identity-wise? I don't tend to think about it. maybe something to do with a job
Chillum: All I know is that anodizing is used instead of paint when something needs to stand up to more abuse
trinque: that relates to how I see this, as a sort of obsession with identity
decimation: asciilifeform: or you could use a 'letter & number die punch set', it would take quite awhile to wear off
nubbins`: most people don't tend to think about personal crises once they've passed, so you're not unusual in that regard. did you find it hard to succinctly state what was wrong, to yourself or to others?
Chillum: a true engraving or outside cut-out would be more ideal
Chillum: solid gold or platinum would not decay
trinque: nubbins`: I am invariably dull when it comes to expressing my feelings to others
trinque: but yes, very hard to take internal state and convey it sometimes, for anyone
Chillum: asciilifeform: nice link, I have read that before
nubbins`: sure. and that's for something as trivial and banal as a fucking /job/.
Chillum: the fact is we have a big tech gap when it comes to storing digital information for long term
decimation: ok imagine you had a gold-etched lexan 'wallet'
decimation: the problem I see is, how are you gonna protect it from being seen?
nubbins`: now imagine how difficult it would be to take the internal state of /wanting to amputate part of your body/ and convey it
Chillum: the gold would not have to be thick
trinque: nubbins`: yeah I see your point
trinque: and how that could run away
nubbins`: anyone who claims to have a grasp on the processes behind these decisions is blowing smoke up your ass
trinque: so doing it ends the obsession? or is that the hope?
trinque: that begins to make a shred of sense
trinque: not how they get the obsession in the first place, but how it ends
decimation: so you put it in your 'safe deposit box', and the bank employees read
nubbins`: how they get the obsession, probably 99% of them couldn't tell you
trinque: it's gonna end up being some bastard fungi
nubbins`: asciilifeform the most common one i've seen is "the part just felt wrong being there"
nubbins`: consider the afore-shared "twwly"
assbot: Logged on 27-02-2015 02:39:08; decimation: "LAWRENCE Look, Ali. Look! That's me. What colour is it? That's me! And there's nothing I can do about it. ALI A man can do whatever he wants, you said. LAWRENCE He can, but he can't want what he wants.This is the stuff [his flesh] that decides what he wants."
nubbins`: had a fingertip amputated maybe 15 years ago
nubbins`: how many fingertips amputated since? 0
nubbins`: alf you just made me dictionary two words, tyvm
nubbins`: but yes, that sounds quite apt
trinque: hm that could be an extremely annoying feeling
trinque: getting all this sensory input from a thing that shouldn't be there
nubbins`: anyway, who can say how a thing gets into a brain?
nubbins`: i have this hazy memory of being extremely sick as a young child, and rolling some very small object, like the size of a grain of sand, between my thumb and forefinger as i writhed in agony
decimation: el Lawrence said it was the flesh that puts it there
nubbins`: this feeling, of rolling the whatever-it-was between my fingers, comes back from time to time
trinque: hm, maybe you picked up something nasty?
nubbins`: no, i mean the sensation of rolling the grain in my fingers
nubbins`: something very queasy about it
trinque: I'm confused; this was an object or just a sensation?
nubbins`: i don't even know if it happened
nubbins`: but it's stuck in my head and every once in a while i get a grain of salt stuck to my thumb
nubbins`: and i walk around for a half hour... rolling it
nubbins`: does this make sense? what is its cause?
nubbins`: why does it make me feel like throwing up sometimes?
nubbins`: and shit gets stuck in them sometimes
decimation: whatever it is, it ain't an object of reason
trinque: I could see there being disorders of the sort of universe modeling of the brain
trinque: like leakage between whatever can make a grain of rice appear in my mind's eye
trinque: and whatever models one on my finger
nubbins`: incidentally, i had a crazy stomach flu a couple years ago and now whenever i get really hungry i feel like barfing
nubbins`: so the roomie that's being kicked out: he puts on a pot of water to boil yesterday
nubbins`: heads upstairs, the water boils, boils, boils down to a quarter-cup before he wanders back down
Chillum: milled stone may be the choice for something to last for 100 years +
nubbins`: says "oh, i forgot", pours his quarter-cup of water into a mug, puts the pot (which has only contained water) into a dirty sink for someone else to wash
nubbins`: and walks away without turning off the stove burner o.O
decimation: Chillum: yeah but what are you gonna write on it? Chillum wuz here?
Chillum: decimation: a bitcoin wallet with 1 bitcoin, think about how much it will be worth in 4000 years!
decimation: Chillum: and how are you gonna keep some random chump from ambling by and liberating the contents?
Chillum: perhaps I should just write "Chillum was here"
Chillum: seriously though, create a giant pyramid over it
Chillum: hehe, make it so that you ahve to brute force it for 4000 years?
Chillum: it would be nice if there was a public/private key system somehow based on time
decimation: asciilifeform: but if your purpose is to send bitcoin to random person, just send it to a random address?
Chillum: like you could encrypt a message that could be decoded until a specific date
nubbins`: where's hari seldon when you need him
nubbins`: whoever finds your milled stone will have to get to the end of the first book before he figures out wtf is going on
Chillum: I will have to include a stone version of the block chain
nubbins`: anyway i'm gonna have a jazz smoke and head to bed. if someone gets portatronic pogotronic static-o-matic bitcoind recipe posted to ML by month's end, i'll send you a free hand-bound book
decimation: maybe you could sculpt a facsimile of yourself and cut its fuckkin' hand off
Chillum: jazz smokes are the best smokes
nubbins`: one of the more comical euphemisms
Chillum: that is called trombonging
Chillum: shotgunning is based off of trombonging
Chillum: which itself is based on trumptoking
Chillum: which is smoking through a trumpet
Chillum: completely unrelated to harp-hooting though
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30800 @ 0.00025019 = 7.7059 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: actually if you want to have something amusing stand the test of time, why not make a '10,000 year clock' like those yahoos in texas
decimation: yeah I don't think they are serious, apparently it partially depends on visitors winding it
decimation: is aztlan the 'blade runner'-style distopia?
decimation: yeah, the movie was naive to think that the chinese would take over before the central americans
decimation: certainly geography and civilization are correlated
assbot: You know what doesn’t wash? Your pathetic attempts to “teach the controversy.” That’s what. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... (
http://bit.ly/1cbwj9N )
assbot: Logged on 22-03-2015 02:22:03; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the problem with jurisdictions discussed recentlier is deeper than it seems. plenty of usians do not think other places are "real places".
Chillum: harp hooting is when you play a harp while making obnoxious hooting noises at passing women
Chillum: amazing what some nutbars believe
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: though that this thought and sympathy with defectors can co-exist is, to me, baffling
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53200 @ 0.00025446 = 13.5373 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: of course, but he's awfully timid for that headsoff bizniz
pete_dushenski: but a non-nazi german would've still witnessed abuses and tragedies, first hand, that would make a deskmonkey faint instantly
pete_dushenski: mebbe your friend the joo was shipped off in a cattle car
pete_dushenski: still depends on whether you see value in it, or imagine yourself as 'above such barbarity'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 92373 @ 0.00024603 = 22.7265 BTC [-] {2}
pete_dushenski: yup. like your old dog that just needs another surgery to return her to her former puppious glory
pete_dushenski: interviews shed some light as to his stances, i think it's pretty clear.
pete_dushenski: well do we even know his fingerprint or have his public key block ?
pete_dushenski: right. w/o keys, we'd just be blobs of flesh and bone, indistinguishable from any other
pete_dushenski: ah, i remember reading jurov's piece from that competition as well.
pete_dushenski: i'd like to see another such competition one of these days
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79277 @ 0.00024249 = 19.2239 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: rewatching citizen4 snowden gedanken film. Forgot they showed the NSA facility under construction in Mormon Judea as a backdrop for so many narrations. Awfully close to the interstate.
BingoBoingo: Federal appellate court room also featured. Looks more drab the local county oppression centers.
BingoBoingo: Also video judge broadcasting from hospital chapel
BingoBoingo: Jacob Appelbaum setting OWS fuckers up for greater surveillance...
BingoBoingo: Such great lulz in this film for decompression
BingoBoingo: Glen Greenwald opening the conversation with Snowden by trying to write a story about snowden during day 1 of year 0
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31072 @ 0.00024074 = 7.4803 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski: ;;later tell hanbot those last two paragraphs of 'shall be delivered' ... goosebumps.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65300 @ 0.00024328 = 15.8862 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: And then... Greenwald shuts down his Guardian coworker
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: comment replied, in case you dun check on these things.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: "Magic Mantle of Power" was Snowden's technical term for the red hood
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33600 @ 0.00024639 = 8.2787 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37228 @ 0.00024639 = 9.1726 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80520 @ 0.00025435 = 20.4803 BTC [+] {3}
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: tenure does not exist in canada? << it does. but like a thursday night of caviar and dom p, isn't for everyone.
pete_dushenski: or mebbe it was only open to kokkarinen in city he didn't want to live in.
pete_dushenski: "Okey dokey, but this smells very much like a conspiracy theory. Especially the action item at the end: "spread the word." If you had ended with "These are the concrete things we all should be doing" then I'd be more sympathetic... assuming those things weren't just "BE EXTRA PARANOID! THEY ARE OUT TO GET US!" "
assbot: gavinandresen comments on There is a targeted attack on Bitcoin occurring right now, coordinated by national agencies. I know this because I am an insider with prior involvement in a key operation. ... (
http://bit.ly/1H6ILDq )
ben_vulpes: <nubbins`> [03:53] and i walk around for a half hour... rolling it << i chased myself around my brain trying to get a look at myself for an hour or four on acid this one time
pete_dushenski: mebbe when john oliver wears holes in his knee pads, gavin can fill in
pete_dushenski: lol yup. twas a full, productive day. i'll sleep well tonight
ben_vulpes: i'll probably stare at the ceiling for an hour or two, thinking about the infinite amount of shit i should be taking care of before clocking out for the con
ben_vulpes: tuesday morning. some 24 hours of travel, each way.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16900 @ 0.00024795 = 4.1904 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: <decimation> [04:16] yeah I don't think they are serious, apparently it partially depends on visitors winding it << tbh i find this delightful and entertaining
ben_vulpes: perhaps a whole cult springs up around it someday - "to wind the clock!"
pete_dushenski: it wouldn't be much less travel from here to meat-b-a. timisoara woulda been faster to travel to.
ben_vulpes: "lifestyle business", i keep reminding myself while reviewing the books.
pete_dushenski: i have nfi what you're talking about. lol which books be these?
ben_vulpes: i plan to bike around, wander around a few neighborhoods, post up in cafés to get some personal hax in, take tango lessons in the evening, nap, eat steak drink wine, sleep, repeat, con, etc.
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: "books" << the ledgers?!
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell mircea_popescu heh maybe i'm not the worst jew after all
pete_dushenski: but seriously jeez you make 'the ledgers' sound like the fuckin dead sea scrolls
pete_dushenski: well, this'd go back to that 'did the burning of alexandria's library matter or nyot' question
pete_dushenski: well in that memories, skills, and ideas, are passed down regardless of whether they're recoverable in written form 2,000 years later
pete_dushenski: people have dozens of other avenues for information distribution and storage other than centralised paper recrods
ben_vulpes: no man, when i say "the books" i mean my derpy little company's p/l statements, outgoing bills, outstanding invoices, the like
ben_vulpes: point being that some weeks i'm very glad to have structured my life as i've done so.
ben_vulpes: next tuesday when i punch out for ten days will definitely.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42550 @ 0.00024795 = 10.5503 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski: and this channel will be awfully quiet without you, mp, and alf!
pete_dushenski: quiet trilema too. i imagine that there are many preparations underway for your arrival :)
ben_vulpes: and will doubtless get drunk under the table by asciilifeform
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20960 @ 0.00025557 = 5.3567 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11200 @ 0.00025601 = 2.8673 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 87406 @ 0.00025612 = 22.3864 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29722 @ 0.00024795 = 7.3696 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43678 @ 0.00024552 = 10.7238 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5185 @ 0.00024716 = 1.2815 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69600 @ 0.00024598 = 17.1202 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53170 @ 0.00024683 = 13.124 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66310 @ 0.00025667 = 17.0198 BTC [+] {2}
gribble: Current Blocks: 351360 | Current Difficulty: 4.944639068824144E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 352799 | Next Difficulty In: 1439 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 3 days, 19 hours, 40 minutes, and 9 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 48126215253.6 | Estimated Percent Change: -2.66991
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65300 @ 0.00024857 = 16.2316 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36600 @ 0.00024663 = 9.0267 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20050 @ 0.00024686 = 4.9495 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33550 @ 0.00024436 = 8.1983 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48900 @ 0.00024341 = 11.9027 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56950 @ 0.00024925 = 14.1948 BTC [+]
jurov: mircea_popescu: withdrawals pls
davout: "Microsoft creates a container for Windows, reinvents toilet bowl"
mats: this is a bad idea and so is ntoskrnl support for docker
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15000 @ 0.0002572 = 3.858 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 293850 @ 0.00026252 = 77.1415 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86500 @ 0.0002433 = 21.0455 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 84150 @ 0.0002507 = 21.0964 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66350 @ 0.00026549 = 17.6153 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61250 @ 0.00026457 = 16.2049 BTC [-]
funkenstein_: this guy wrote a couple papers over a year ago, claiming vulns in mining
funkenstein_: arxiv.org/abs/1311.0243 and arxiv.org/abs/1411.7099
fluffypony: funkenstein_: the game theoretic Nash Equilibrium stuff isn't bogus, as far as I can see
Adlai: what is there to write about it, at this point, beyond "no mining pool operator is honest enough to publicly disclose their selfish mining hashrate allocation"?
fluffypony: it is in the best interest of larger mining pools to attack smaller ones, for the most part, and even to attack each other (as long as it isn't a matter of mutually assured destruction)
funkenstein_: i'm not saying game theory is bogus, but their analysis of the return based on the so-called attack
fluffypony: oh I haven't looked at their specific data, just what they were generally positing
funkenstein_: the "selfish mining" suggests that not broadcasting a found block could somehow help you
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70900 @ 0.00026742 = 18.9601 BTC [+] {4}
funkenstein_: the other one suggests that mining for a pool and throwing away found blocks could somehow help you
Adlai: it helps you by hurting your enemy worse than it hurts you, for certain ratios between your total available hashpower, your selfish-allocated-hashpower, and the hashpower under attack
funkenstein_: Adlai, their formulae are flawed.. they assume total network hashrate -m- is the same even though you are throwing away solved blocks
funkenstein_: also calling somebody an enemy and then hurting them is not rational behavior. looking at your collected BTC is rational behavior.
mircea_popescu: jurov you highlighted me for withdrawals. you still need it ?
jurov: of course. and it's not me, but a coinbr client
mircea_popescu: dude am i the only one with a scrollback or something. how is the "nash equilibrium" stuff sensible.
mircea_popescu: even leaving aside the rank nonsense of the particular "analysis". the concept that it is somehow game-theoretic feasible for a one-of-many arrangement to attack everyone is at least bizarre.
mircea_popescu: territoriality developed in living things for instance specifically to try and pierce this problem.
fluffypony: mining pools aren't laid out like that though
fluffypony: two mining pools that control 25% of the hashrate each, mining pool A and B
mircea_popescu: so ? even if there's only two - the +ev outcome is collaboration not hostility.
mircea_popescu: which is the real risk here : if pools collaborate TOO MUCH we end up with usg 2.0
fluffypony: it is in A's best interest to setup a new pool, C, and then DDoS B so that C's % of the hashrate grows
mircea_popescu: unless there's actually C1...Cn and any of THEIR hash rate grows.
fluffypony: in fact, since the cost of starting and operating a pool is low, and they already have the technical know-how, they can setup a whole hoard of seemingly legitimate pools
fluffypony: and attack all the pools they don't want
mircea_popescu: you seem to go on this remnant of forum dumb where the technical costs are relevant in bitcoin. they are not.
mircea_popescu: the barrier to entry to making mpex is not "making the software". same for pools,
fluffypony: but we can't observe the social fabric
mircea_popescu: fluffypony the fact we can't observe it doesn't allow us to value it at 0.
fluffypony: because the owner of pool A and pool B could be the same
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ we left aside the idiots in question and are discussing the theoretic theory.
fluffypony: just that it has low latency and is stable
Adlai is genuinely curious to see whether funkenstein_'s criticism extends beyond "this behavior is not rational, for me and my rational friends"
mircea_popescu: small miners don't care, but this is universal - they don't care about anything, including rig safety.
Adlai: the observation which seems correct is that they don't account for the drop in difficulty caused by hashpower diverted towards attack... but i'm not certain that this lack of accounting is in their favor
Adlai: withholding valid blocks from competing pools
funkenstein_: the real equilibrium is to send zero of your miners off to throw their hash rate at nothing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54900 @ 0.00025801 = 14.1647 BTC [-]
Adlai: afaict, the only people who can credibly back up such a statement are pool operators
fluffypony: mircea_popescu: "miners care deeply who owns a pool" - we're getting into the realm of the anecdotal here, the mining farms I supply ASIC racks to don't care about the people running the pools they use at all, and they don't run their own
mircea_popescu shrugs. derps in reddit care who said god hates faggots. yet people who actually have stuff riding on this don't care about stuff that matters. i dunno, seems rather anecdotal.
Adlai: and they can't credibly say "we're not withholding blocks from competing pools", only "our submitted shares are not suggestive of such an attack being performed against us"
mircea_popescu: fluffypony if miners actually don't care, how do you explain 50btc/btcguild's demise after their collusion with gavin last year ?
jurov: mircea_popescu yes it did, nm
Adlai: it may indeed be a DoS on minds, withholding relevant problems by suggesting subtly irrelevant ones in their stead
mircea_popescu: i mean... they should still be here, riught ? they owned a year ago, right ? what happened ?
fluffypony: they're not talking about a situation like that
fluffypony: they're talking about a surreptitious attack where the attacker is not known
fluffypony: even though, in reality, it is a competing pool
fluffypony: Pool A won't attack Pool B and then put out a blog post bragging about it
Adlai: and, miner C could be mining on pool A, and getting paid according to pool A's public stats, but actually be "working" on an attack against pool B
mircea_popescu: fluffypony let's see this. pool A has 25% of hash rate. pool B has 30% of hash rate. there's 45 other pools each with 1%.
mircea_popescu: 1. makes 500 new pools. complete with persuasive admins (1 per) who keep social media profiles etc.
mircea_popescu: 2. ddos' pool B. as if ddos is not actually a solved problem.
mircea_popescu: as a result of 1 and 2, 50% of people mining on B move, leaving it with 11% hash rate. the resulting 24% difference moves to pools, 90% of which are A's.
mircea_popescu: the cost of 1) is what, 100k ? 500k ? the cost of 2) is what, 100k ? 500k ? the benefit from the gained market share is... what ?
fluffypony: DDoS isn't a solved problem for Stratum, and especially not for mining where latency is of the utmost concern
mircea_popescu: do you have any idea how long it'd take a pool (just that, nothing else) to make back 100 dollars after server costs ?
fluffypony: miners configure their mining setup with failover pools, but it failsover based on latency as well as a pool being unreachable
fluffypony: so all they have to do is inconvenience the pool and miners will failover
Adlai: why is ddos an issue here? this attack is not a ddos
mircea_popescu: Adlai the "withholding" thing is idiocy of prime order. it existe,d historically (ie, cca 2011) and was a problem for early pools. but it was SHARE withholding, not block withholding. it was fixed meanwhile.
fluffypony: also, as I understand it, we're talking about a future time when running a pool *is* more profitable than it is now
mircea_popescu: people became intellectually enamoured with it and keep spouting it everywhere, as a sort of cargo-cult bitcoin "knowledges"
mircea_popescu: fluffypony yes fluffs, in a game theoretic universe where cows are spherical and it rains glass, one could accidentally make a cow snowglobe.
mircea_popescu: and that's my point here : these are discussions of no substance used by reddit dorks to be discussing things.
mircea_popescu: bitcoin equivalent of "did leia really enjoy it" or w/e.
Adlai: the really funny bit from the (second) paper is "This would push miners to join private pools which can verify that their registered miners do not withhold blocks"
Adlai: the only way to _verify_ that your miners haven't withheld blocks, rather than trusting their word for it, is to check those nonces yourself
☟︎ mircea_popescu: because identity being expensive, it's no longer productive to attack.
Adlai: such an attack, properly executed, would be indistinguishable from bad luck
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82900 @ 0.00026878 = 22.2819 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: so i give you nonces 1-100 to hash , and fluffy nonces 101-200. and you report nothing found, and he reports nothing found. and then one day a block on nonce 76 is found and you are forever fucked.
Adlai: a when the same merkle root shows up again?
Adlai: as you like to say - mkay.
assbot: Logged on 09-04-2015 12:34:19; Adlai: the only way to _verify_ that your miners haven't withheld blocks, rather than trusting their word for it, is to check those nonces yourself
Adlai: addressed != solvedh
mircea_popescu: which is what this is : inexistent problems that don't exist being misunderstood as existing by people who don't understand how anything works, and then failing to see that even should they exist, the solution also exists.
mircea_popescu: the rub, of course, being the entire "oh but bitcoin is anonymous"
mircea_popescu: no it's not fucking anonymous. it's pseudonymous. different fucking things. identity still exists!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75000 @ 0.00026894 = 20.1705 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: fwiw, i had no idea leia is supposed to be anything BUT the slave chick.
mircea_popescu: dude with the article must have had some pretty odd searches in the past. my "google images" for princess leia consists of 20 hits of the woman wearing some sort of white overalls, with the 17th being her in actual atire.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26750 @ 0.00026178 = 7.0026 BTC [-]
mats: heh. tacit admission that you can't buy this kinda time either way, imo.
mircea_popescu: "In order to encourage participation we would like to be able to award more substantial prizes. If you would like to donate to this cause, please contact us!"
mircea_popescu: mats well, it's training, i gather. trainee pieces aren't either useful or valuable, per se. so you're not really "buying" anything.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 97350 @ 0.00026947 = 26.2329 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21400 @ 0.00026364 = 5.6419 BTC [-]
lobbes: re: withholding blocks. So basically, mircea_popescu, you are saying that anything gained from withholding said blocks would be outweighed by the potential destruction of one's reputation (which is expensive to build)?
lobbes: but to Adlai's point, could there not be one derp out there who 'withholds' enough until that 'one day' to make it worth it (in his eyes)?
lobbes: perhaps I am missing something
Adlai: if miners and pool operators choose to conduct such attacks against eachother (note that the attacks are against eachother, not against "bitcoin"), they can be fought... the attack becomes more expensive, and mining becomes more expensive, due to the defense
Adlai: with "the defense" taking some form such as a pool operator negrating a miner who has an unreasonable dropoff of share-finding luck just below the difficulty threshhold
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80950 @ 0.00027136 = 21.9666 BTC [+] {2}
lobbes: hmm, okay that makes sense
Adlai: this is expensive for the pool operator because he needs to send redundant work units to various miners, to get them checking eachother
lobbes: so the 'attacker' is disincentivized due to this rising cost, and the fact that 'statistically' he is being outed by not finding his shares at the expected rate (thus, reputation suffers)
bitstein: "Is the new system live? Not yet."
bitstein: Still cracks me up: "There are at least 177 instances in which ripple and stellar’s code matched up. In its haste to get its currency established, Stellar simply copied ripple’s open-source code but evidently its search-and-replace missed many instances where the code still says 'ripple.'"
http://observer.com/2015/02/the-race-to-replace-bitcoin/ Chillum: my new computer is so quiet it seems like something is missing
mats: such incompetence. how hard is it to use sed?
lobbes: 'but evidently its search-and-replace missed many instances where the code still says 'ripple.' < l0l
Adlai: according to the papers' model: there is no incentive to be the first attacker, but there is incentive to be the Nth, N+1st, etc
Adlai: painting this picture of a mining commons on the brink of tragedy
Adlai: concern trolling in a fancy typeface
bitstein: At SXSW, I snuck into a Bitcoin 2.0 panel Jed McCaleb was on. During the Q&A I got up and asked, “Last December the Stellar blog had a post called ‘Safety, liveness and fault tolerance—the consensus choices’ that described how there was a fork in the ledger and subsequently, Stellar had essentially collapsed into a centralized system. Can you elaborate on what happened and why people should trust Stellar in its aftermath?” He
bitstein: gave a long answer describing the fork and giving lip service to this new consensus mechanism in the works, but failed to address the second part. So before they moved on, I followed up, “But right now, Stellar is a centralized system?” He begrudgingly responded, “It runs on one node, yes.” After my question they all went right on back to talking about how awful centralization is and how great the decentralized future is.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22400 @ 0.00027201 = 6.093 BTC [+]
mats: i'm confused as to Kaminsky's role in all this
mats: conned or what? lent his name for a buck to some trash?
funkenstein_: did kaminsky do anything other than allow his name listed as technical advisor?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75200 @ 0.00026971 = 20.2822 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15000 @ 0.00026797 = 4.0196 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58000 @ 0.00027252 = 15.8062 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7200 @ 0.00026797 = 1.9294 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34584 @ 0.00026507 = 9.1672 BTC [-]
[]bot: Bet placed: 3.5 BTC for No on "Gold to drop under $1000 before August 2015"
http://bitbet.us/bet/1131/ Odds: 11(Y):89(N) by coin, 13(Y):87(N) by weight. Total bet: 9.21237 BTC. Current weight: 82,570.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86035 @ 0.00026076 = 22.4345 BTC [-] {3}
[]bot: Bet placed: 2.166 BTC for No on "Bitcoin to drop under $150 before July"
http://bitbet.us/bet/1133/ Odds: 14(Y):86(N) by coin, 15(Y):85(N) by weight. Total bet: 15.79172615 BTC. Current weight: 86,260.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8417 @ 0.00025739 = 2.1665 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 207700 @ 0.00025817 = 53.6219 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82813 @ 0.00025446 = 21.0726 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 70600 @ 0.00024972 = 17.6302 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55200 @ 0.00026507 = 14.6319 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57200 @ 0.00026507 = 15.162 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: model this attack and i'll show you one thin that's wrong with it enough to sink it.
mircea_popescu: i'm never going to be able to show you ALL the things that are wrong wqith it, being that it's nonsense.
mircea_popescu: you're like the guy going "so mp you're saying the perpetuum mobile could not exist because X ?" sure, x if you want it.
assbot: viXra.org e-Print archive, viXra:1504.0072, “The Majority is Enough” a Rebuttal of Two Proposed Vulnerabilities of Bitcoin Mining ... (
http://bit.ly/1aqXbRI )
mircea_popescu: bitstein the observer makes the valid code replace point, but STILL names its article "the race to replace bitcoin". as fucking if. "the race to waste imbecile capitalist money, the new hot valley term for what was once known as a venture capitalist" was radioactive or something.
mircea_popescu: <mats> such incompetence. how hard is it to use sed? << real muppets use excel.
mircea_popescu: <mats> conned or what? lent his name for a buck to some trash? << intelligent people have a lot of trouble avoiding locklin's mistake.
mircea_popescu: and im not reading a pdf. what the fuck funkenstein_ .
mircea_popescu: dude...srsly. a walled garden/proprietary platform is bad in and of itself. it's not bad only if it becomes big.
mircea_popescu: the difference between this stupid diqus shit and just writing for gawker is 0.
mircea_popescu: own your content, AND EVERYTHING ABOUT IT. you don't need someone else deciding anything whatsoever. not what url to use. not when to "put up a warning page". not. ANYTHING.
mircea_popescu: you don't want me to think "hey that was a great piece, i wonder IF ARXIV ORG HAS MORE"
mircea_popescu: fuck them. you want me to tihnk "i wonder if you have more"
ascii_field: it would help if there were actually a proper replacement for it.
mircea_popescu: then people wonder about kaminsky. EXACT SAME THING. you lot have been so mentally stunted by the stupid welfare state, you do this sort of shit. "oh, i wonder if arxiv backwards . org paid funkenstein_ anything". no dude, they didn't, he's just silly like that. like everyone in that country.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35002 @ 0.00024832 = 8.6917 BTC [-]
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: in the sense of accurate and resolution-independent mapping to flattened dead tree
ascii_field: funkenstein_: pdf is more or less ps plus a bit of header
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24292 @ 0.00026686 = 6.4826 BTC [+] {2}
funkenstein_: mircea_popescu, their (arxiv / vixra) competion is journals that charge the author per page
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22800 @ 0.00024832 = 5.6617 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: no dude, that's how *they hope to make money*. later on. once "we" and "contact us" have got enough of this fuzzy baseless trust made by appealing to a certain naivity of the intelligent.
mircea_popescu: "o look, they're hippy dippy cool and got cat pictures". what "they" ? and it's not THEIR fucking cat, either.
mircea_popescu: 'cause that's all they know, facebook model. pretend like "we" are interacting with the stakeholders but stay anonymous, and then if/when this gets big enough, assert a new identity and whoopdeedoo, claim you're worth a billion.
mircea_popescu: "because people follow us". well fuck you, back when YOU were anonymous, joe schmoe and lucy lue followed you. not "people".
mircea_popescu: now that you wish to be facebook inc, suddenly *they* gotta be you know "people", to take the place of the vague "we".
mircea_popescu: oldest scam in the book, this identity transfer. keep your identity, it's yours.
mircea_popescu: and for that matter, it's not only the most valuable thing you'll ever have - it's outright the only one.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field how about forget .ps which is fine, and .tex
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: aha lol 'tabletrons' etc. viewer gadgets expected to render .tex now ?
mircea_popescu: the failure of widgets is a problem of the widgetmaker. do not ask me to solve it till i market a widget.
ascii_field: and, to use gnu's terminology, .tex is often 'not the preferred format for modification' - as in, it is frequently machine-generated
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: you are proposing equivalent of selling raw crude at the petrol station
ascii_field: .tex plus illustrations, whatever perl crud etc. was used to munge data into figures, possible latex preprocessing, etc. sometimes takes GB of ram and hour of fast cpu
ascii_field: at least for academic papers, or high res scans
mircea_popescu: so does pdf, in same conditions. except you gotta use either a windows bundle or else more perl crud munged together.
ascii_field: but pointing out that asking printer or tablet makers to build machines which can swallow .tex is a nonstarter
ascii_field: this is quite like proposing that bitcoind be built -on- the pogo.
mircea_popescu: so because -unprocessed- pdf doesn't actually exist you figure this is an argument ?
ascii_field: i actually do not like pdf, for various reasons, some of which overlap with mircea_popescu's. i prefer a wavelet-compressed format, 'djvu'
ascii_field: but don't try to say 'you should like scrolling and pixellated graphics, forget about paper and author-specified pagination'
ascii_field: the 'we want everything in www-readable plain text' concept sorta implies.
mircea_popescu: but fwiw, my experience as an actual author is that the html format is WAY better than the pdf format for the web, which is why trilema is not delivered in pdfs.
mircea_popescu: now, one's experience may vary, i've not printed a book in a decade,
mircea_popescu: but it still seems to me a narrow corner case notrly contemplated here.
ascii_field: www works fine for text and the occasional bitmap
ascii_field: but there are folks who read maths, or blueprints, or scanned historical documents.
mircea_popescu: actually trilema as-is works better for ALL of these than pdf.
mircea_popescu: me being a folk who reads maths, and historeical documents. even the original blueprint.
ascii_field: i insist on these to be either on a) paper b) device with dimensions and pixel density of paper, which i own - but in both cases - retaining the original pagination
mircea_popescu: i grant you, if you hate scrolling you'll have to engage in strange to compensate.
ascii_field: i like moving eyeballs in y as well as x axis
ascii_field: x-only is like seeing life through a tank periscope
mircea_popescu: as in "what everyone does" normal or as in "what should be done" normative-normal ?
ascii_field: sorta like mircea_popescu's insistence on 1cm tall characters
mircea_popescu: do you also hate inequal pixel sizes ? like, you know, is your monitor square ?
ben_vulpes: yeah mircea_popescu how does your meat know that 1cm?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: would love a square display with square pixels
mircea_popescu: because if you don't, seems to me you're looking through that tank periscope anyway
mircea_popescu: given that people's horiz precision is what, 3x their vert precision.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: what i do have is 4 lcd laid out in such a way as to fill my field of vision
mircea_popescu: but the pixels themselves! every inch is 100 sideways and 40 vertically.
mircea_popescu: anyway. i don't hate scrolling. i hate the situation where my field is fixed.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the shape of the pixels is considerably less interesting if you have ones sufficiently small to enable affine transforms of whatever kind you like, without visible distortion
mircea_popescu: ascii_field you're eliding the point. the fact that your misshapen pixels allow you to not see the distortion means your meat is made to look through a tank periscope in the first place.
mircea_popescu: if it weren't, the square eye wouldn't put 3x more focus on horiz than it puts on vert sync.
ascii_field: i suppose you could also say that i scroll, but simply prefer to do it with eyes rather than fingers
mircea_popescu: ascii_field the problem is that you always have a finite workspace.
ascii_field: re: pagination - author-controlled pagination, i find, is often valuable information
ascii_field: think of every time you have to wiggle the y axis to fit a figure on the display
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27900 @ 0.00025643 = 7.1544 BTC [+]
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i find reading anything - other than plain text - not designed with a particular viewport geometry in mind - physically painful.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29500 @ 0.00027062 = 7.9833 BTC [+]
ascii_field: no, because not much of an astronomer these days
mircea_popescu: it'd seem to me it'd be more painful to have panties made for no particular cock than you know, a shirt.
mircea_popescu: well... my tailor here'd prolly do it. it'd be weird as all fuck... but hey.
ascii_field would wear tailored fucking socks if he could
mircea_popescu: tailor tailors for the body, it's sinnewy depths, not for the skinshape.
mircea_popescu: have a bunch of techs and mandatory clothing insurance.
ascii_field: re: socks: i am reminded of dan mocsny's piece on how very few people can give honest answer to the question of whether they want, e.g., a harem - because they don't have the option in menu
ascii_field: perhaps i -wouldn't- wear tailored socks, in practice
ascii_field: but recall the thirsty man in the desert who 'could drink a river'
mircea_popescu: you know the harem is not like, a block of cheese. it's an abstract name given to a complex social reality.
chetty: ascii_field, also know as can't think outside the box
mircea_popescu: like you know, "an empire". yes the empire may sink, but usually not in water.
ascii_field: chetty: not that one cannot use imagination. but it is folly to say 'i would not want atomic dirigible' unless that choice is actually there, like the decision of whether to buy a laser printer
mircea_popescu: ascii_field note that i wasn't commenting on whether i or anyone else would or not would want x. merely on how much sense x makes, given other things.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: who the fuck gets women off a menu << the fella with an already-assembled harem, such as mircea_popescu ?
mircea_popescu: maybe you want an ak with a curved barrel, for all i care.
ascii_field: and not obviously a bad idea under the circumstances
mircea_popescu: obviously a bad idea, just not in their circumstances.
mircea_popescu: "this is the sort of item you only ever want because you fucked something else up"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 369 @ 0.01000002 = 3.69 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: and where's that pic nubbins put in, with the "you do not want an adaptor, you think you do becaus you fucked up the light arrangement"
ascii_field: (iirc britain had a periscopic rifle sight/trigger stick in ww1, for roughly same problem)
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: ellison is interesting for another reason. he is the undisputed emperor of 'wrote a few good stories in the '50s, famous for nothing in particular since'; loudly rants demanding eternal copyright because 'creaaaatorz have riiiiiightz!!111!!'
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: supposedly ellison witnessed the legendary bet b/w heinlein and hubbard. but afaik that's all..
mircea_popescu: kinda goes with the woman's complaints about the what was it, hugo award ?
mircea_popescu: i recall when i was a kid, some of the first books printed in shiny covers etc were various sf works, which is how i even ended up owning some (ender's game, dune, other americas, crap like that) - they looked good.
mircea_popescu: and they all sported various awards, nebula, hugo, whatever.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: that was more of a 'how dare they make an upvote ring, that's -ours- to do'
mircea_popescu: i was suspicious at the time. had an argument with other teens, with me going "that's prolly just some shit they made up for the cover"
mircea_popescu: was a big scandal in the tiny cup. evnetually tho... lo! i am vindicated.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: hugo is voted on, iirc, by folks who go to (or at least buy ticket to...) 'worldcon' - an sf event attended mainly by writers (in practice, the wannabees i spoke of earlier)
mircea_popescu: this doesn't qualify it for "some shit they made up for the cover" ?
ascii_field: it was made up long ago, when the american writers all knew one another
mircea_popescu: right. it's basically if they start putting on "as seen in bash.bitcoin-assets.org" on shit long after we all left.
assbot: Victor Davis Hanson: Modern American universities are failing on four counts - San Jose Mercury News ... (
http://bit.ly/1H8u7eU )
mircea_popescu: sf in the 50s was a spare cycle endeavour of the people who at the time didn't have bbs yet.
chetty: my amazement on where that got published
ascii_field: 'Colleges need to publicize the employment rates of recent graduates and the percentage of students who complete their degrees so that strapped parents can do cost-benefit analyses like they do with any other major cash investment.' << anyone recall the law school debacle ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 262594 @ 0.000272 = 71.4256 BTC [+] {6}
ascii_field: (a great many - published such figures; turned out, to no one's surprise, fabricated wholesale; then somehow entire brouhaha magicked away )
chetty: well its San Jose, the heart of soicalism country
mircea_popescu: ascii_field nobody goes to jail for THAT kinda fraud right ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46359 @ 0.00026574 = 12.3194 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27500 @ 0.00025544 = 7.0246 BTC [-]
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: not only this, but feeds the academic mandarin class
ascii_field: who get to not only avoid starvation but live like civilized people (naturally, referring to the winners in the tournament market, not the chinese grad students here)
ascii_field: because they, approximately, hold 'title of nobility' in usa.
ascii_field: performance metrics, in usa, are for the worker bees.
ascii_field recalls the eternal 'the late cooper's daughter, in her december.. why was the famous? who could remember?'
ascii_field: but no, ellison only shat a few basic prunes.
ascii_field: but was 'friends with them all' and ended up in the usa sf wot.
mircea_popescu: anyway, back to ellison, guy apparently wrote a shitton. i suppose it's mostly that we don't give a shit about their pulpy universes.
ascii_field: he was, imho, of a particular school of writing where threw shit at a wall hoping that some would stick
ascii_field: but he persisted in letting his snr fall, fall...
mircea_popescu: i think they all did that, in the olden penny a word days
mircea_popescu: "readers" meant "people more than willing to root through the shit, because literacy is new and printing only last year became affordable"
mircea_popescu: his nostalgia is misplaced. the first time they came up with synthetic fibers people wore them out of pride. "look at me, i am one of those withthe industry"
mircea_popescu: as they cheapened and broadened they took their proper place. not because "there aren't real wearers anymore"
mircea_popescu: pulp was never literature. it seemed like it, because of the nonsenser that was early 19th century new york.
ascii_field: at any rate, you will find that folks obsessed with 'eternal copyright' etc. are invariably 'smallinteger-hit wonders'
ascii_field: 'my fucking lottery ticket should be worth $infinity'
mircea_popescu: more like "i have so little, please don't make it less."
ascii_field: another 'why is he famous?!' fella who goes on, and on, and on... about 'eternal copyright now!111!1' is jaron lanier
assbot: Logged on 11-01-2015 17:38:08; mircea_popescu: "Jaron Lanier is one of the world’s great polymaths. He’s a computer scientist, composer, visual artist, and the author of a new book, Who Owns the Future?, published last month "
ascii_field: i mentioned him at least once as specifically an example of a particularly vile species sometimes called 'digerati'
☟︎ mats: i had the worst day
mats: working for idiots is awful
mats: my manager dicked around on a server and threw me under the bus when he fucked up
mats: motd says DO NOT USE RM UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING
mircea_popescu: he doesn't sound old enough to need a job, that doesn't sound like a job good enough to want, etc.
ascii_field does not, afaik, know anyone in local meatspace who 'doesn't need a job'
ascii_field: it isn't strictly an age thing, beyond a certain point
mircea_popescu: doesn't sound like you'll face a dearth of opportunities.
mats: after i clean this up imma start looking, but, i'm still 'entry level' as far as years-employed goes
mircea_popescu: fuck that. why would you ever take a standard that disadvantages you ?
mircea_popescu: when you're young, you only talk in performance terms.
mircea_popescu: when you're old it's time for "years employed" metrics.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75250 @ 0.00024999 = 18.8117 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: you never, ever, no matter what happens, accept a metric that puts you behind.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: now you know why i'm in my mousetrap.
mircea_popescu: that's to be done with your teachers, not with the fucking employers.
ascii_field: can't speak for mats, but basic idea is that once you leave your meatwot, you are a fungible machine. this is a situation that, as mats put it, 'resets you to entry level' - and overwhelmingly favours the very young
☟︎ mats: as you know, a proper master is rare...
ascii_field: there is not so much employment in the world for the 'naggum' variety of engineer. and one hundred percent of it is built on meat wots, years-long personal relationships and 'ins'.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 597 @ 0.00259003 = 1.5462 BTC [-] {8}
ascii_field: step outside of this, and you are fighting with the monkeys for monkey food.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1000 @ 0.002575 = 2.575 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_field: one very important fact is that a 'naggum' - if he is the genuine article - is a -destroyer- of jobs for his own kind, rather than creator thereof
ascii_field: one could argue that this is not true, and that 'there is still as much work for systems engineers today as in '70 - because nothing really works' - but 'as much work' does not mean 'as much employment'
mircea_popescu: ascii_field you propose that if you were taken to a jungle, you would have trouble exterminating monkeys ?
ascii_field: one man in the field would likely fall to sufficient cockroaches
ascii_field: what then is the difference between he and they
mircea_popescu: wait, no man was ever killed by cockroaches. what are you on about ?
ascii_field: but the crashed pilot in the jungle likewise plays with handicap vs beasts which grew up there.
mircea_popescu: you know, the shapeshifting amoebic consistency of your position suggests to me that you'd rather it weren't discussed after all. which is it ?
ascii_field: here i don't have a position as such, only observations
ascii_field: these observations are based 'in my light cone' naturally.
ascii_field: speaking of exterminating monkeys, recall the thread with the strength of pan troglodytis ?
ascii_field: the point, which i evidently failed to get across, is that the man vs chimp contest requires the man to at least get a chance to sharpen a stick, in order to use his advantage over the beast
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48845 @ 0.00024411 = 11.9236 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_field: put the two together bare-handed - chimp will tear off limbs and rape the corpse
mircea_popescu: the other point, which for some reason you don't seem inclined to appreciate, is that if the difference between man and beast doesn't exist, then the nominal difference is spurious.
ascii_field: this is why the zoologist gets eaten every time
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86327 @ 0.0002417 = 20.8652 BTC [-]
ascii_field: iirc there is a hypothesis that it is why they attack - he fails to respond to some important chimp gesture of dom/sub protocol handshake
assbot: Jane Goodall Institute Chimpanzee Eden Attack Leaves American With 'Multiple And Severe Bite Wounds' ... (
http://bit.ly/1H8Bx1M )
ascii_field: 'when two chimpanzees grabbed his feet and pulled him under a fence into their enclosure...'
mircea_popescu: "Andrew F. Oberle was giving a lecture to a group of tourists at the Chimp Eden sanctuary on Thursday when two chimpanzees grabbed his feet and pulled him under a fence into their enclosure, said Jeffrey Wicks of the Netcare911 emergency services company."
ascii_field: what is surprising? the thing has roughly 5x the strength of a man, per gram of muscle.
mircea_popescu: what is surprising is that you're passing off chimps in a zoo for chimps in the wild,
ascii_field: tears man like paper. like hydraulic pistons of bulldozer.
mircea_popescu: and generally that this conversation keeps sliding towards less and less related stuff.
ascii_field: (i very clearly recall incident of specialist who dealt with chimps in the wild, getting 'chimped' after many uneventful years. but lost the link.)
ascii_field: to get back to original point, that i attempted to make, - division of labour exists, and not everyone is a universal and reshapeable everything.
BingoBoingo recalls suprise at mircea_popescu's default chimp being the blowjob species
mircea_popescu: similarly, shopper got shot in muggery after many years of safe shopping.
ascii_field: this is more of a 'that day was suddenly torn limb from limb by the other shoppers' thing
mircea_popescu: ascii_field the difference between smart and stupid is that smart can be stupid, but stupid can't be smart. that's it.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: if this condition is not satisfied, you're looking at mere kinds of stupid.
ascii_field: not sure if this will make sense, but living as a stupid -social- organism takes a lifetime of practice.
ascii_field: consider organic vs congenital brain damage
ascii_field: not liking per se, but sustainably (without external feeding) functioning.
mircea_popescu: so you're telling me you couldn't flunk tests. because it's "in your nature" to pass them.
mircea_popescu: can you see how this would essentially be socialist ideology ?
mircea_popescu: "no need to pay creators for creating - it's what they do"
ascii_field: could quite easily flunk tests. could not convincingly worm into the company of folks who grew up doing so.
ascii_field: didn't grow up drinking their swill, speaking their hundred-word language, watching their sporting crud, etc.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu could convince an eskimo that he is an eskimo ?
☟︎ mircea_popescu: and if i couldn't that failure'd score pretty high up on the priority board.
ascii_field takes off hat, does not know anyone else who would dare to attempt it.
ascii_field recalls how richard sorge, perhaps greatest spy who ever lived, still stuck to impersonating a german - rather than japanese - official, while in jp
mircea_popescu: speaking of spies, i was kinda surpriosed to see news item linked yesterday casually point out the deep reason for why exactly us gaver up on actual humint to focus on mostl pointless sigint
mircea_popescu: "we can't afford to train and then to lose the agents what with these new techniques"
ascii_field: mentionable, like everything else, so long as the context is sufficiently obfuscated (or can be presumed to be unknown to the chumps)
ascii_field: just like the other tidbit from yesterday, re: the arctic exercises.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47650 @ 0.00025471 = 12.1369 BTC [+]
ascii_field: and before we say 'the americans and their wasted effort on pointless sigint' - let's recall how they set up a whole planet as chumpers who can't access a sane computing system at any price...
ascii_field: (pedants will answer 'desinfo ain't sigint' but in usa they are presided over by the same people)
mircea_popescu: next you're going to tell me growing autism is the intentional effect of tradecraft.
ascii_field: the sparrow may not be to blame for the spring, but the matter of the birdshit on statue - another.
mircea_popescu: looky here : nothing works unless individuals sovereign over them.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30000 @ 0.00025471 = 7.6413 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: the car is functional today to the degree that it is functional for this reason.
mircea_popescu: ic had no such luck. you could say shockley made a bad king.
mircea_popescu: rocketry exists because of that nazi us citizen, not because of any government, or other group of people. and on and on.
mircea_popescu: there's always going to be fields with and fields without the luck.
mircea_popescu: (and before anyone wants to argue re ford : the man pissed on a field of patents, ignored the law and basically ordered anyone messing with his stuff murdered.)
mircea_popescu: for that matter - electricity had a bad king, and it still sucks to this day, as discussed yest
ascii_field: who in fact invented modern patent trollage
mircea_popescu: people, if left to do what threy will, will just make piles of shit. it's what people do.
ascii_field: (paulgraham, pre-braindamage, called the difference 'good taste' but not sure if this is descriptive)
Adlai: pg: "hackers, like painters, both make things" rando troll: "so do chickens"
mircea_popescu: it may be good taste, but it more likely is a firm decision to burn anything and everything until it either behaves or goes away.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26900 @ 0.00025471 = 6.8517 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: anyway : the people who never burn anyone elementarily fail at this.
mircea_popescu: kinda how it only takes a moment;s survey to reealise a field/group/whatever will never amount to anything worth the mention.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field hey, we discussed last year this guy that was really butthurt about some professor stealing his invention ? up in canada ? something to do with mathematica maybe ?
ascii_field: he later backed down, paper was printed, there were no lawsuits, iirc.
ascii_field: 'The real problem with this result, however, is that it is not Wolfram's. He didn't invent cyclic tag systems, and he didn't come up with the incredibly intricate construction needed to implement them in Rule 110. This was done rather by one Matthew Cook, while working in Wolfram's employ under a contract with some truly remarkable provisions about intellectual property. In short, Wolfram got to control not only when and
ascii_field: how the result was made public, but to claim it for himself. In fact, his position was that the existence of the result was a trade secret. ...'
ascii_field: 'Wolfram, for his part, responded by suing or threatening to sue Cook (now a penniless graduate student in neuroscience), the conference organizers, the publishers of the proceedings, etc. '
ascii_field: wolfram is sui generis. owns a tame publisher, for instance
☟︎ ascii_field: that prints his 'great insights' and those of his user base
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6241 @ 0.00025471 = 1.5896 BTC [+]
ascii_field: to my great shame, i pumped thousands and thousands of usd into wolfram's pockets.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: it isn't an on-demand print, either
ascii_field: the man is a crank who grew up as 'next big physics mind' who ended up coming to nothing. but turned out that he was good at harnessing other folks to pull his imperial cart.
ascii_field: so he ended up as a mad king of a small kingdom of sorts
ascii_field: 'mathematica' has competitors in the exactly same sense that mpex does.
mircea_popescu: apparently everyone who's not proud to work for corporate america a la buffett is busy trying to carve a small kingdom of flies type of arrangement
mircea_popescu: from the idiots trying to get "real estate developments" on arid hills in south america
ascii_field: buffett has kingdom. well, had. it was conquered meanwhile
mircea_popescu: to derps making "submarines" because hey, can't just admit bitcoin has it and humbly join.
ascii_field: anyway, i happen to know more than a reasonable man ought to, about wolframism
☟︎ ascii_field: what he did was, essentially, steal a usg mega-product - macsyma, the first really universal computer algebra system, thousands of man-years of
ascii_field: and hired some folks to cough up a gui for it
ascii_field: so that 'serial number is filed off', so to speak
ascii_field: and would not be bound by the (iirc murky) legal status of the stolen original
ascii_field: (gpl did not yet exist, and ianal, but the story is complicated - it -was- taxpayer-funded research)
ascii_field: 'My real concern, of course, was not that he was using optimized data structures so much as that he seemed on target to reintroduce numerical error back into a world that we had worked hard to make 'exact' (Macsyma used bignums from Lisp) or at least 'arbitrarily exact' (Macsyma had a derived type called 'bigfloat' that was internally a pair bignums, acting more or less as a ratio but with lots of other hidden bits to
ascii_field: assure that any decimalization had enough bits to be precise to a given number of digits). Stephen's aim seemed to be to sacrifice correctness for speed. He seemed clear on that the error was not a problem for him...'
ascii_field: (modern mathematica is, grudgingly, bignummy.)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25568 @ 0.00027439 = 7.0156 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30000 @ 0.00026632 = 7.9896 BTC [-]
mats: Schwab FFS "password must contain at least one letter and no symbols Have one or more numbers between first and last character Password must be between 6 and 8 characters in length"
mats: really? i could attack that on a laptop from 2005.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 204264 @ 0.00025593 = 52.2773 BTC [-] {5}
mats: scratch that... 1995.
assbot: Logged on 02-04-2014 16:43:00; benkay: bounce: the only solution is to be the competent management you wish to see in the world :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17685 @ 0.00025044 = 4.429 BTC [-]
mike_c: yeah? you claiming to be gandhi now :)
mircea_popescu: mike_c ben_vulpes i seriously thought i had come up with it, then searched for it, found vulpes
mircea_popescu: no wonder the ancients didn't have "intellectual property". too cultivated to imagine it's workable.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65150 @ 0.00025031 = 16.3077 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17147 @ 0.00024736 = 4.2415 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48161 @ 0.00024736 = 11.9131 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86900 @ 0.0002686 = 23.3413 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17685 @ 0.00026031 = 4.6036 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 161 @ 0.01 = 1.61 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43200 @ 0.00025089 = 10.8384 BTC [-] {2}