ben_vulpes: who needs agency, when you have bad opsec?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16000 @ 0.0007418 = 11.8688 BTC [+]
midnightmagic: built-in sigs are not very WoT-friendly. Without gitian-gverify'ing a binary, the same thing is technically true from the perspective of people running the main bitcoin bins
BingoBoingo: Who would even use a QT client without compiling it so they could put in coin-control???
midnightmagic: trinque: It would be interesting, but he would instantly submarine the entire effort for sure.
midnightmagic: :-o only mike and gavin are publishing gitian sigs for the result. On the small chance they are doing something sneaky, if you gitian and find a mismatch, you could kill xt in about 20 minutes of compile-time per-release.
trinque: really depends on the difference between weakening in some subtle way vs putting some explicit back-door
trinque: but sure, something overt would be tactically stupid on their part
midnightmagic: They've claimed that with the microscope on their efforts looking for bugs to discredit them, that this translates into equivalent-to-normal-auditing. (??)
☟︎ shinohai: I don't even need a microscope. Naked eye working fine thus far.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22341 @ 0.00074272 = 16.5931 BTC [+] {4}
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: oh the williams sisters are going at it in a major ? that doesn't happen often enough
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: I'm not watching it, just bet. Watching "To Catch a Contractor" instead
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: It's a show, a true gem. Really destroys one's faith in American real estate
pete_dushenski: i've been trying to put my finger on this mats guy for a while, ever since the decimation episode, and i think i've distilled it. without further ado :
assbot: 6 results for 'from:mats drama' - #bitcoin-assets search
BingoBoingo: Features Adam Corolla, also known as low rent Tim Allen
pete_dushenski: !v assbot:pete_dushenski.rate.mats.-1:33fbc075d363f966c5a2041fe3ce19f176f71eec14fdd72e3cdee9400bc41912
assbot: You rated user mats on 28-Aug-2015, with a rating of 2, and supplied these additional notes: Around a while in various forms.
assbot: Logged on 03-09-2015 05:46:51; mats: you hate me
assbot: Logged on 07-09-2015 01:00:03; mats: your mom
assbot: Logged on 08-09-2015 20:54:05; mats: shots fired
assbot: Logged on 02-09-2015 00:33:47; mats: whoa, whoa, such cynicism
assbot: Logged on 01-09-2015 21:45:54; mats: this is not reassuring
pete_dushenski: i get the sense that it's more than sarcasm coming from mats and i dun take kindly to it.
BingoBoingo: At least this is the healthy sort of dissent
pete_dushenski: it's not like i expect him to go anywhere a la pankkake, tat, or decimation, but i don't trust him.
☟︎ ben_vulpes: not really how this is supposed to work.
cazalla: i like how the text "no thanks" and "yes" are smaller than big blue buttons that work in their favour
BingoBoingo: I think mats is getting polish. He claims a knowledge base which explains a lotta cognitive dissonance that appears on subjects like ASLR (For the record I use an OS with ASLR by default)
BingoBoingo learned more in fewer spans than those in which asciilifeform and mats have discursively danced. I really clear up what the traditional common wisdom has been.
cazalla: BingoBoingo, we don't, but apparently our friends are finding it difficult to find us
pete_dushenski: www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-09-08/russia-s-main-bourse-says-trading-halted-across-all-markets << usians not the only ones with 'blow-off valves'
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Well, maybe we celebrate our fifth birthday with a 500 kilowatt AM station?
cazalla: we could use my 5 watts for 1st birthday but.. no licence lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12650 @ 0.00074423 = 9.4145 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: cazalla: Wouldn't be the same unless we got the money to hire a hot chick to read it
benkay: and what moreove is wrong with it
benkay: you want further homogeneity? in the cult?
☟︎ benkay: additionally, i do not see substantiation of the drama claims.
assbot: Logged on 08-09-2015 23:36:03; ben_vulpes: eh, just pay for the children.
BingoBoingo has yet to see pete_dushenski talk about wishes to leave a tract of geography disputed by two Satans
benkay: i retain hope mine'll be +ev. like my wife. unlike anyone elses.
BingoBoingo: No, Greece and Hungary are supposed to save Syria by becoming Syria mircea_popescu
pete_dushenski: "I thought the support BitcoinXT had was way bigger because of so many people praising it on /r/Bitcoin. I wanted to help scale bitcoin so I spent about $200 to set up 10 BitcoinXT nodes for a month."
☟︎ pete_dushenski: "The $200 I spent was almost 1/3 of my bitcoin savings and I regret wasting my money on this. Maybe I will keep running BitcoinXT at home but I haven't decided."
shinohai: LOL pete_dushenski thanks for logging that
danielpbarron: hah i spent the equiv of his savings on Eulora stuff alone
pete_dushenski: danielpbarron: and sounds like you've made a pretty penny off that investment too
danielpbarron: i win all the auctions -- doesn't mean i'm profiting :/
shinohai: I spent most of my BTC on stuff I *still use*
mats: ah, my first neg rate
BingoBoingo: <danielpbarron> hah i spent the equiv of his savings on Eulora stuff alone << Exchange rate adjusted I have spent more drinking at 2nd Mardi gras
☟︎ ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: what, did the nick disconnect while i wasn't looking?
danielpbarron: not sure if shinohai's comment is directed at Eulora, but it's 1) not fleeting and 2) i still have the stuff i bought
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: I hope you are at least reading EVE-Online history
shinohai: No danielpbarron not directed at you or Eulora, at XT
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: the "experiment", i mean.
BingoBoingo: <mats> ah, my first neg rate << a test and a milestone
shinohai: Euora I would consider a good investment, and will when I buy my next computer
mats: in the service of that note, i can't say i particularly care about a guy whose chief 'contribution' is blathering at length on a blog
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: benkay has left IRC (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
ben_vulpes: <pete_dushenski> benkay: what happened to the 'ben_vulpes
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: i just saw 'benkay' logged in and was inquiring, as i hadn't seen that handle in a coon's age.
BingoBoingo: Everything and nothing is going on. Which is why mircea_popescu's Bitcoin exam will eventually need metaphysics and biology sections
BingoBoingo: <pete_dushenski> ben_vulpes: i just saw 'benkay' logged in and was inquiring, as i hadn't seen that handle in a coon's age. << Coon vernacular for that period of time is "a minute" now
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Nah, just a minute is a long time nao
danielpbarron: no, a "minute" is a long time in the retarded brains of today's youth
danielpbarron: a vine clip is 6 seconds and that's already pushing it
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Nah, just in the minds of the Urban youth blessed by the #gayfish in chief
ben_vulpes: anyways, pete_dushenski, i'd love to talk some day when you've got something other than "lol ur handle bro" lined up
BingoBoingo: <pete_dushenski> ;;ud coon's age << But biologically a coon's maximum lifespan is 18 months to 36 months
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: wasn't lolin' man, was just wondering what the occasion was !
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 00:55:08; benkay: you want further homogeneity? in the cult?
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: and i'm none too amused by 'oh no she didn't' 'oh yes she did' banter either
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: dulap removed from -addnode on my machines, restarted
mats: howbout reasons why win10 ain't so bad as win7, 8, 8.1.
☟︎ mats: not because i'm trying to convince anyone to use it, but maybe, zoological purposes
☟︎ mats: seems nobody is really talking about how 'CFG' is enabled by default in win10
mats: 'control flow guard', which verifies functions at call sites, ensuring target is in fact a function.
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25000 @ 0.0007418 = 18.545 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: Telemetry kinda kills Win 10, but now also kills Win 8 and 7
mats: there are also new security features that have been rolled out over the last year, ie, isolated heap and deferred free lists
mats: the CFG implementation is quite weak based on a cursory inspection, but in general all this stuff raises the cost of attack
mircea_popescu: mats which incidentally is a valid point re your earlier "gps beacon" considerations.
mircea_popescu: resistence is not about DOING anything, but merely preventing the enemy from doing his stupid shit.
mircea_popescu: so yes, even with the cctv bla bla. not driving a gps beacon is that much better.
mats: it doesn't. but random passerby has to spend a shiny dime for the privilege of diddling your box
mats: i have never ventured the opinion these mitigations actually defend against MS, INTC, USG, etc...
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> those are least concern tho << I'm not sure least concern. Lesser concern, yes. Probably by attack frequency not least.
mats: i'm a researcher. not a defender offering his opinion on how to defend a winbox.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: No point being able to beat full USG if vulnerable to papersigners like new look voorhes and shren at the same time.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19722 @ 0.00074179 = 14.6296 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo the idea there is that in any situation of scarce resources, you pick the main threat and work towards that. working towards lesser threats is a waste of your resources and promises to paint you in the corner of a local maximum.
mircea_popescu: it is exactly how the middle class usian became a captive of ipad and suburbia.
mircea_popescu: they didn't want to fight the government, but niggas passing by
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 82559 @ 0.0007462 = 61.6055 BTC [+] {7}
BingoBoingo would like to see moar weirdix and weirdonet adapters
mats: that some folks suggest the substance of any of my debates begin with 'so explain why i shouldn't windows' indicates they've no idea whats actually being discussed
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15809 @ 0.00074743 = 11.8161 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu waves to the poor unfortunate schmuck stuck in this particular shitty job.
BingoBoingo wonders if there are any li-polymer batteries that fit in 2.5" drive bays
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Sure, making sure everything else is batteried a bit harder, keeping Satan out much harder
BingoBoingo: There is little recourse possible if the Great Red Dragon and God's lamb decide to wage the final battle of mortal existance in the same toom machine is
BingoBoingo: definition: toom = the interior space of a tomb
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 00:57:08; mircea_popescu: "s-as-effort-to-rescue-bitcoin-falters" hahahaha WHAT ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform technology and the spawn of women are not like things, plox no spurious comparisons.
mircea_popescu: i'll consider such arguments once you can take the 3yo product of white woman, put it in cage with 3yo product of thirld world woman, and it emerges victorious. every time.
mircea_popescu: "i'm only worthless because X" is of no practical importance.
assbot: Logged on 08-09-2015 23:46:49; trinque: binary releases..
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you wish to say "kids are like socket mains" then you must show that white woman kid beats random kid eighty million tries out of eighty million.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25000 @ 0.00074213 = 18.5533 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: the spawn of greek speaking white women in constantinople cca 1200 was equally worthless.
mircea_popescu: even a few emperors "too young" to assume the crown atthat age
mircea_popescu: and there's at least hte sad end of the manchuko in china
mircea_popescu: but iirc this sort of fail was on a ~1400 year period in that place.
BingoBoingo: Sparta still feared by Huns through 900 AD
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 00:14:07; midnightmagic: They've claimed that with the microscope on their efforts looking for bugs to discredit them, that this translates into equivalent-to-normal-auditing. (??)
mircea_popescu: and i mean that in the most literal sense. i doubt even the computers bother reading their code.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> bbbbbut mit !!1111!111!!1 << At the point MIT Technology review loses to qntra...
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Sure, but qntra won rather quicly
assbot: Logged on 12-04-2015 02:55:30; asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: my first gig out of school was at an abominable usg-contracting salt mine where little gurlz straight out of mit, for that fact alone, were promoted, repeatedly, over everyone else's head
mircea_popescu: lmao. so there exists an #anonops on freenode. nobody there, bout half dozen amazon shells.
mircea_popescu: “under federal law, a judge is technically allowed to sentence a defendant based on conduct that was uncharged, [or]charged and dismissed, or even charged and acquitted. That’s because the standard of proof at trial is beyond a reasonable doubt while the standard of proof at sentencing is by a preponderance, i.e. more likely than not. […] The government can dismiss charges if it wishes, but if the court thinks yo
mircea_popescu: u probably did it, you can still be sentenced based on those charges. […] Essentially, the government loses but then gets to punish you anyway.”
shinohai: There was an i2p irc they had for a while too iirc
shinohai: Anon movement never was my thing, seemed quite silly.
mircea_popescu: the brits never won a trial in imperial india, not ever.
mircea_popescu: anyway, note the incredibly braindamaged defense put up by one caduddu
mircea_popescu: the first mistake these folks make is accepting the inept counsel.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31500 @ 0.00074769 = 23.5522 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 30-01-2015 05:51:36; mircea_popescu: which is why i am not ever giving it up. the freedom to threaten is not merely my fundamental, unassailable sovereign property, but moreover essential for the construction of effectual instruments to squash the socialists and their golums.
☟︎ BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> “under federal law, a judge is technically allowed to sentence a defendant based on conduct that was uncharged, [or]charged and dismissed, or even charged and acquitted. That’s because the standard of proof at trial is beyond a reasonable doubt while the standard of proof at sentencing is by a preponderance, i.e. more likely than not. […] The government can dismiss charges if it wishes, but if the court thin
BingoBoingo: ks yo << And people were wondering why I wouldn't just plea out and pay a fine
mircea_popescu: "microagressions" come from a world that's not starshaped with the "usg" at the center of all things.
mircea_popescu: don't sign with the devil. you will live to regret it if you do.
BingoBoingo this weekend may have actually met targeted operation. Some nigga found me at the bar and kept trying to sell me drugs.
BingoBoingo: Spotted me specifically, made a bit of smalltalk and then than coon tried to sell me the entire spectrum of drugs.
mircea_popescu: so does shrem. obviously he's not one bit sorry he fucked the goat.
mircea_popescu: but this is also the problem : you will never be able to get a sufficient number of "nothing". the devil's giold coins have this way of turning to leaves in your hands
mircea_popescu: really butthurts low level wanna-be undercover agents.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo next time film him, put him online. << He may or may not have been recorded. If his handlers read this they probably ought to see if their agent has a file with one of the more trusted local constables.
mircea_popescu: in other news today, asciilifeform reads by the crate.
BingoBoingo: I thought it was known ascii only read by the crate
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 00:41:21; pete_dushenski: it's not like i expect him to go anywhere a la pankkake, tat, or decimation, but i don't trust him.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 01:04:57; pete_dushenski: "I thought the support BitcoinXT had was way bigger because of so many people praising it on /r/Bitcoin. I wanted to help scale bitcoin so I spent about $200 to set up 10 BitcoinXT nodes for a month."
mircea_popescu: derp on a 500 bucks budget blows half of it to cover a month of random retardation he found on the net.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24700 @ 0.00074769 = 18.4679 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 01:08:18; BingoBoingo: <danielpbarron> hah i spent the equiv of his savings on Eulora stuff alone << Exchange rate adjusted I have spent more drinking at 2nd Mardi gras
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo, am i mistaken ? << $500 in US could buy quality eating pistol
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Even with more familiar stuff plenty of 1911 clones floating around $350 to $450 new
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: And if willing to eat rifle Mosins around $200
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: aha, if for eating, doesn't much matter if the nonpressurized parts are of zamac << Yes
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 01:15:49; *: ben_vulpes dosimieter
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 01:28:11; mats: 'control flow guard', which verifies functions at call sites, ensuring target is in fact a function.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I though you manced the necros? Isn't that what dark ELF's do?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33400 @ 0.00074846 = 24.9986 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: but srsly, if anyone who understands these things is willing to explain it to me, how exactly is the kernel going to "verify target is in fact a function" ?
cazalla: BingoBoingo, seriously now.. iksar necro far cooler than delf necro
mircea_popescu: things that aren't functions that got injected couldn't have the extra fixed payload injected along ?
mats: it prevents rop chains
mircea_popescu: every time the endless chorus of people that keep repeating "no srsly, ms improved" gets me to believe it on a simple "regression to mean" theory, shit like this happens
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Is Soviet Eeyore also a sad donkey?
mats: it doesn't protect against all forms of control flow hijacking
mircea_popescu: not that the general problem of "i will now emit a string of bits and you tell me if this is a function" isn't a very interesting ai topic.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> so today i cut open the winblowz version of 'derive', v.6. it has mulisp buried in there!! a 32-bit version thereof. hand-coded in asm, at least partly. << I my cursory seach Texas Instruments apparently "owns" derive
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Butt, Butt, Butts they depreciated it for ARM shit
BingoBoingo: Not that they will admit. "Totally supplanted by 'NSpire' thing"
BingoBoingo filling up on ETOH to try to reclaim last week's useful qntra venom
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Damn it, you got me looking at TI-92's nao
☟︎ BingoBoingo rolls around in some jools hoping they embed in the skin
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18700 @ 0.00075346 = 14.0897 BTC [+] {5}
ben_vulpes: "struggle session" << anyone have any decent literature? the only thing i can recall offhand is the book White Swans.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: On that topic truly useful literature is going to be elusive
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27150 @ 0.00075451 = 20.4849 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: mats that's nice to have. i always puzzled over the incredibly poor security of mobile as a design decision
☟︎ ben_vulpes: primary sources ideally, first generation translations would be nice.
ben_vulpes: oh yeah and can't make modern readers think too hard about their own versions
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5481 @ 0.00074932 = 4.107 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo becoming convinced no one does better blackface than the Japs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9350 @ 0.00074932 = 7.0061 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: if gpg is so librarification-resistant, how have you jammed it into the cardano?
☟︎ mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-09-2015#1263077 << continuing our series of "power rangers are retarded lol", today's installment : bitcoind's idea of "passwords" allows digita and lowercase characters. no symbols no uppercase. not only does this mean a bitcoind pw is half the strength of a normal pw, but (the actual likely purpose of this retardation) it makes it trivial to identify wallet password lists. ESPEC
☝︎☟︎ assbot: Logged on 05-09-2015 02:38:55; mircea_popescu: in today's lulz : it turns out that bitcoin-qt interface, if presented with a malformed value such as 1,275 btc instead of the 1.275 notation,
mircea_popescu: IALLY seeing how the fucktarded implementation of "accounts" etc pretty much ensures everyone will be using multiplew wallets.
BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> asciilifeform: if gpg is so librarification-resistant, how have you jammed it into the cardano? << He only needs format comptibility
assbot: Logged on 07-09-2015 23:21:26; trinque: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel Conkeror has made its way into daily use; JS debugging tips? Best thing providing a JS REPL in Emacs?
gabriel_laddel: Incidentally, improving the browser interface is what I plan on using to punish interns / employees who create DSLs, configuration file formats, non-reader macro syntax extensions...
gabriel_laddel: Something like 40% of the conkeror js translates to PS without signaling conditions using the included js->ps transpiler.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27100 @ 0.00074966 = 20.3158 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: Logged on 07-09-2015 23:28:45; trinque: davout: ruby is objectively butts. rebuttal?
BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel> Incidentally, improving the browser interface is what I plan on using to punish interns / employees who create DSLs, configuration file formats, non-reader macro syntax extensions... << How is "improving:" and not "killing" the word here
pete_dushenski: though i have to say, asciilifeform, for a starved man, you think mighty clearly.
☟︎ gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: because there is a lot of information that needs to be sucked out of the web, and having a 'sharp' blade with which to do this will be quite valuable moving forwards.
☟︎☟︎ BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: Sharp blades excise tumors like javascript
gabriel_laddel: e.g., scriping combinations of browser movements, OCR routines and X windows level key-presses together for data mining
gabriel_laddel: there is a partially complete js->parenscript transpiler so that you don't have to read js
☟︎ BingoBoingo: Scripting web content ought to entirely be the user's choice
BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: A page is a document. Why should anyone other than the user impose any scripts upon the text?
gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: because I want your information pl0x and I'm not going to ask nicely.
BingoBoingo: Because FUCK YOU. Few things are worse than a textbooks with highlights already
gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: it is quite obvious that I've poorly expressed exactly why the web interface for Masamune exists.
gabriel_laddel: I don't know wtf textbook highlighting has to do with anything
BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: You have to understand I am appraoching this as a trained Librarian. Scripting is at best a form of highlighting (never a reason for broswerscript or postscript to be turing complete) Everything else it does is vandalism
gabriel_laddel: the correct model is that you never have a DSL or "mini-language"
gabriel_laddel: the full power of the machine should be yours, at all times
gabriel_laddel: Want to launch a 3D visualization from a button press in the back of the settings menu? Sure, why not.
BingoBoingo: I'm just wondering who at all should have to eat javascript asbestos to become a Great Red Dragon of the Information age.
punkman: and what's wrong with notation/dsl/mini-languages?
☟︎ gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: Enough with the almost analogies already. They're an escape hatch to nowhere.
gabriel_laddel: punkman: you lose the full power of the programming language.
BingoBoingo: This Dragon says No Javascript or experiance famine
BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel> punkman: you lose the full power of the programming language. << In nearly every case a 3rd part gives you code you don't want a full language. You want a plainly crippled language.
BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: If I want to print pretty papers I don't need, want, or desire turing complete postscript
gabriel_laddel: punkman: the problem with creating "DSLs" in ALGOL is that you end up losing M-. (jump to definition) and any ability you may have had to interact with the AST of the previous programming language (read: the actual language, as it is the thing that contains all the semantics) when you change the syntax
trinque: better to be able to extend your DSL at will
gabriel_laddel: punkman: the whole DSL thing doesn't have a name in lisp because it isn't needed
gabriel_laddel: "Here are some abstractions, solve the problem." The end
BingoBoingo: The entire point of domain specific languages is shutting opportunities to drop turds everywhere out
punkman: gabriel_laddel: I get your point but also, this kinda sounds to me like "don't use math symbols, write it all with the full power of english"
☟︎ trinque: BingoBoingo: dunno bout that; isn't it to model your problem in clear terms?
BingoBoingo: trinque: Yes, and almost always my problem is reading some fucking text
gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: hide it all behind Super-Meta-click and leave the rest to Congnition Stratifies(TM)
punkman: gabriel_laddel: I haven't because I don't wanna emacs
BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: No, You don't fucking make XML
gabriel_laddel: punkman: so when you create a new format or something in ALGOL you have to create a new parser right?
gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: meh, I'm done here, read more or something
gabriel_laddel: punkman: and everytime this happens you need all new tooling for this new language, right?
gabriel_laddel: because you can't "get at" the AST, because that isn't how people naively write parsers.
gabriel_laddel: so, this doesn't happen in lisp because everything IS it's own AST, as is.
gabriel_laddel: now, that AST (in blue) can be mapped, with no loss of information to the "lisp" (s-expression) under it: (/ (* (+ 3 2) 8) (* 3 (^ 3 6)))
trinque: gabriel_laddel: nice "hey look we invented lisp" at the beginning there
gabriel_laddel: punkman: When you hack lisp, everything "deals in" (modifies, returns) these structures.
gabriel_laddel: because you can always "open up" any "structure" and are guaranteed to get more of the same i.e., lisp, i.e., sexprs
☟︎ gabriel_laddel: trinque: at the beginning of (I'd assume "A Realistic Solution to the Education Problem" but don't see it there)?
trinque: gabriel_laddel: just the bit about how if we don't make all these assumptions about order of operations, and arrange things sensibly, we've got sexps
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40890 @ 0.000755 = 30.872 BTC [+] {6}
trinque: I taught someone a bit of scheme recently (alongside SICP) and used roughly that approach.
BingoBoingo: What part of the utterance "Fuck You" is formal enough to be an sexpr
trinque: started with math, said "what if we didn't have any order of operations except those explicitly stated, and also "wtf re: infix anyway?"
☟︎ BingoBoingo: Human language contains ambiguities, Machine languages are formal, why try to bin them together entirely?
trinque: gabriel_laddel: not at all; they've already learned more syntax via basic algebra
trinque: BingoBoingo: not sure I hear the question
gabriel_laddel: Partially through translating the imaxima LaTeX stuff such that you can take a maxima AST, view it as LaTeX, maxima syntax or lisp all at the CLIM listener.
trinque: BingoBoingo: I would say mr gabriel_laddel has it, that all syntaxes can be done within the lisp system, and simultaneously you find that the vast majority aren't necessary
☟︎ trinque: gabriel_laddel: sounds very nice
gabriel_laddel: Reader macros also allow you to deal with syntax mechanically for whatever it's worth.
trinque: I've only so far written macros to deal with the hair of someone else's shit
☟︎ trinque: never found a use for them in my own code to date
trinque: haven't used either for anything aside from regular macros to make some stumpwm config prettier
trinque: and that was more or less looking for a reason
BingoBoingo wonders when unblemished text became the problem.
BingoBoingo: WHy do such things need parsed by machine?
trinque: no one says your qntras have to be parsable, but it might be nice if the language you configure your editor/DE/OS with is.
BingoBoingo: When did graphs in D3 become essential and not luxuries
trinque: XML syntax is a heinous misstep that affords little, demands much
BingoBoingo: <trinque> no one says your qntras have to be parsable, but it might be nice if the language you configure your editor/DE/OS with is. << And at what point should barin authored text end and machine authored text begin?
trinque: in my opinion one is a subset of the other
trinque: supposing your syntax has a "here be dragons" token
gabriel_laddel: "On the historical evidence I shall be short. Carl Friedrich Gauss, the Prince of Mathematicians but also somewhat of a coward, was certainly aware of the fate of Galileo —and could probably have predicted the calumniation of Einstein— when he decided to suppress his discovery of non-Euclidean geometry, thus leaving it to Bolyai and Lobatchewsky to receive the flak. It is probably more illuminating to go a littl
☟︎ gabriel_laddel: e bit further back, to the Middle Ages. One of its characteristics was that 'reasoning by analogy' was rampant; another characteristic was almost total intellectual stagnation, and we now see why the two go together. A reason for mentioning this is to point out that, by developing a keen ear for unwarranted analogies, one can detect a lot of medieval thinking today." --
https://www.cs.utexas.edu/~EWD/transcriptions/ BingoBoingo: <trinque> XML syntax is a heinous misstep that affords little, demands much << It is, and When gabriel_laddel talks massamune unfortunately I read XML or XML with paren
trinque: we shall see; guy hasn't released anything yet and signed his name thereupon
BingoBoingo: But even in LISP people there is a divide between machine language and "people" language. One can not adequately enjoy the lamentations of enemy women in machine language
gabriel_laddel: I cut 3 paragraphs from that quote, which are quite relevent to this conversation.
gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: I swear to you that you can input arbitrary strings in LISP.
trinque: "here be dragons" was poetic license for that
trinque: any grammar can just say "here's the header, here's the footer, go nuts kid"
gabriel_laddel: trinque: lol, we understand each other. BingoBoingo doesn't though.
BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: But at some point people want to put arbitray string on their own.
BingoBoingo: The point where you decide to eat javascript is the point you go coprophilliac for satan
gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: why take my (or anyone else's) word for it, spin up an SBCL REPL.
BingoBoingo: Cutting HTML, markdown, or postscript to bare text is fine. Cutting javascript to OMGWTFBBQ 3D graphs but translated is the devil incarnate.
BingoBoingo: If you catch the devil hold him close for you shall not catch him again.
trinque: are we talking about the web here?
trinque: or generally that there should be more text-only content?
trinque: I would agree that where the written word is concerned, please do not give me a single-page JS app
gabriel_laddel: trinque: he is discussing nope.js, the javascript to parenscript transpiler
BingoBoingo: trinque: I am referring to the latter in reference to gabriel_laddel's assertion javascript should be parsed at all.
BingoBoingo: No version of postscript is acceptable either unless read with eyes and generated with TeX under careful watch with rifle at hand.
BingoBoingo: Srsly we are dealing with the devil and his works
trinque: the web still exists; gotta deal with that monstrosity somehow
trinque: I tend to lean the way deedbot.org looks
assbot: A white guy named Michael couldn’t get his poem published. Then he became Yi-Fen Chou. - The Washington Post ... (
http://bit.ly/1L0tS81 )
BingoBoingo: I'm not about to feed nytimes.com into anything that would do other than discard its JS
trinque: but I've written some parenscript and it worked fine, and kept my brain from having context-switch fatigue
trinque: the languages are close enough that it's really just an alternate JS syntax; not like you're compiling haskell to JS
punkman: trinque: the web still exists; gotta deal with that monstrosity somehow << need a sane browser first, without JS. then we can start writing custom handlers for heathen websites that we are unable to view.
☟︎☟︎ trinque: the JS output is entirely readable
trinque: punkman: yeah well I don't start with boil the ocean
BingoBoingo: trinque: I may be drunk so I may not have started my objections at the right place. Whatever code you privately jizz onto servers is yours. Code you try to make other people execute is a crime.
trinque: now that's a place to begin talking.
trinque: BingoBoingo: I would much rather download someone's signed lisp program and run that locally than have this horrible half-creature that grabs code from everywhere, tries to "sandbox" it, and runs without so much as a gpg fart in the wind
☟︎ gabriel_laddel: punkman: trinque: the idea here is to use nope.js on conkeror, which is written in js
BingoBoingo: trinque: Than do as I do, and don't run it.
trinque: gabriel_laddel: yeah that immediately pissed me off
trinque: expected lisp in conkeror, then... sadness
gabriel_laddel: scripting it with PS sucks unless it is the "base layer" of the UI
BingoBoingo: What is nope.js and how does it differ from mozilla pdf.js???? Why trust any javascript runtime?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7170 @ 0.00075661 = 5.4249 BTC [+]
punkman: gabriel_laddel: well even if you can translate all the worl'ds js to lisp, I still don't want any JS
trinque: BingoBoingo: he's talking about in the sort of XUL layer, if I understand firefox
BingoBoingo: Zool is not a container, it is another devil.
BingoBoingo: Fuck it, lets pass around javascript turds as FLAC files so we can infect our machines with cassette tapes
trinque: I'm actually on-board that hypertext shouldn't specify executable code within
trinque: maybe it's got some data structure in it that has various "viewers"
trinque: gabriel_laddel: hypertext is a word.
trinque: has a very useful meaning.
trinque: oh stop, there were hypertext systems on general
gabriel_laddel: trinque: they didn't do *everything* correctly, but yes.
trinque: this hypertext thing has massively worked out
trinque: don't be stupid and ignore that
trinque: because the browser is shit
trinque: don't care what you use; give me a universal reference to *THAT* concept
trinque: and let me point at your concepts and make reference to them on *my* thing
trinque: in the don't-call-it-hypertext
trinque: hypertext you understand is just an extension of what writing already was.
trinque: you don't just write in isolation; you write in a vast context of interrelated concepts
trinque: so no, I don't think "run lisp program and open socket" is enough
trinque: mabye we're all running the same lisp program, but you have to have a space within which (distributed CLOS??) the thing we're doing poorly on the www can be done better
gabriel_laddel: Sure, I send you a sexpr containing a program you can load.
gabriel_laddel: dunno what else you could possibly want, other than sane 3D etc.
trinque: how did I know I want your program?
trinque: which is composed of what structure
trinque: meaning. today I google some nonsense and google gives me my propagandized results
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 04:35:09; gabriel_laddel: there is a partially complete js->parenscript transpiler so that you don't have to read js
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> it spills trans. << I though that was called prison???
trinque: damn socialists spilling trans everywhere
gabriel_laddel: trinque: so someone could write and distribute a "~google search" that looks over the CLIM streams of all GUIs it knows about.
mircea_popescu: alternatively it could be transpieler. where you play with the tran.
trinque: right, that thing is necessary
gabriel_laddel: if you don't like it, well, you've got the sexprs right there
BingoBoingo: <trinque> hypertext you understand is just an extension of what writing already was. << Seriously there is a specific harmless language or subset of language necessary for playing the presentation role. Something that by it's Phoosis can be presented safely
trinque: I see what's asked for there.
trinque: and on the other end, gabriel_laddel will tell you that's a (small) subset of his lispy metaverse
trinque: gabriel_laddel: what of gentlemen like BingoBoingo that want to write and link things
BingoBoingo: For safety though it should not be a part of that, but merely interpreted through a progam in that
trinque: in what space do these links exist? what are they addressing? so on so on
gabriel_laddel: trinque: well these are all very good questions, but that's application development.
trinque: dunno that you see or perhaps don't value the problem the web did solve
BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel> trinque: I don't see how this is a problem? << I am a librarian, a collector. I want to collect information without collecting a bunch of executable rat turds
trinque: seems to me you end up with another browser
BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel> trinque: well these are all very good questions, but that's application development. << NO, this is developing separate universes
gabriel_laddel: trinque: the whole lispm is a "browser" if you go that direction with words.
trinque: "you can do anything at zombocom" is not why the web blew up
trinque: it blew up because it was absurdly simple
mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267251 << moreover, if gpg messages were code rather than data i'd have gpg rewritten to a thing that keeps messages strictly as data. BingoBoingo exactly has it : there is no room nor need for every bit of text to be "really code". i want my nano to be UNABLE to do anything whatsoever with the text. which is why i use nano rather than emacs.
☝︎ assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 04:51:28; punkman: gabriel_laddel: I get your point but also, this kinda sounds to me like "don't use math symbols, write it all with the full power of english"
mircea_popescu: if i want it to be able to do things with the text, then yes i want full ast bla bla.
BingoBoingo: Executable things can go in the Lispy read, sign, check signatures, and execute world. Documents need to be in the don't give a fuck read the derp and laugh universe
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: you're still missing the whole "bind *real-eval* to nil" part of the discussion
BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel> mircea_popescu: you're still missing the whole "bind *real-eval* to nil" part of the discussion << FUCK YOU IMMA DRAGON
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: the people who authored CL thought of your use case.
BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel> mircea_popescu: the people who authored CL thought of your use case. << AND yet you Hearnia around the details
trinque: ^ guy is just more interested in his lisp system than a particular app on it. I contend the mega-app on any computer now and in the future will be a hypertext system.
BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: The difference between what you do now and what Mike Hearn does is 2013 and 2015. Mike Hearn knew his mission was to destroy through evangalism. You may no that, you may not but that is still your net effect.
trinque: because that's what language always was
BingoBoingo: For a while I did girls for money, was a huge hassel, not worth it, because the girls were huge. Giggolo is a dead end.
BingoBoingo: Seriously are we channeling Nike shoe slogans here, Just do it?
BingoBoingo: AND I am the one using ambiguous metaphores???
trinque: a safe hypertext system could easily be tossing sepxrs over the wire with *no* code, just piles of data
pete_dushenski: "[Damon] Wayans defended [Bill] Cosby. Among his comments: “I don’t believe he was raping. I think he was in relationships with all of them.” “If you listen to them talk, they go: ‘Well, the first time.’ The first time? Bitch, how many times did it happen?”
pete_dushenski: “Some of them, really, is un-rapeable. I look at them and go, ‘No, you don’t want that.'” “If it was my daughter, then I would have killed Bill Cosby. But sitting back looking at it, I think it’s a money hustle.”
trinque: various presentations for various kinds of data yes, one of them a link
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel re "bind *real-eval* to nil" meh. this works in the same sense "provable code" works. in academia.
☟︎ gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: well by that token, the same stands for nano
mircea_popescu: and if it is fouind behaving like a pipe it gets shot in the head.
mircea_popescu: whereas your thing is only maybe shot in the head if found leaking.
mircea_popescu: no wonder they stopped working on search to develop... what the fuck is it they do these days again ?
trinque: surveillance apparatus as far as I can tell
trinque: I count that under "ad company"
trinque: as in, google does self-driving cars and definitely not surveillance
trinque: though I guess that's getting them into the assassination gig
pete_dushenski: google mostly creates 'services' for 'free', undermines field, then mothballs and leaves a competitive void
☟︎ trinque: gabriel_laddel: if I don't know you, I may still want to listen to you for a moment, to see what you're about
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11400 @ 0.00075661 = 8.6254 BTC [+]
trinque: why should I have to run a program *of yours* at all to get certain information from you?
trinque: I am trying to make a point of BingoBoingo's lamentations
BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel> how many LoC is nano? << a large portion is what those LOC do
gabriel_laddel: "Do I like this string, would I like more from the identity that produced it?"
BingoBoingo: <trinque> I am trying to make a point of BingoBoingo's lamentations << I grad school I was in serious discussions where we lamented fiber optic was not used for project film over hundreds of miles.
☟︎ BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel> dunno what I'm missing here << All of the shit you want to hinge on this
gabriel_laddel will find nano LoC stats *after* I find the quote I am looking for.
trinque: anyhow, I have made myself sleepy. I think most here would be satisfied with a simple hypertext system to replace the JS monstrosity of today.
BingoBoingo: <trinque> anyhow, I have made myself sleepy. I think most here would be satisfied with a simple hypertext system to replace the JS monstrosity of today. << Gopher is beautiful
trinque: and that I can see is readily built on a proper lisp system
trinque: BingoBoingo: yeah I recall it
trinque: strict about the URL structure or w/e it was, isn't it?
mircea_popescu: the lulz being that ubuntu gedit goes "do you want this file displayed or executed ?"
☟︎ mircea_popescu: and no, it's not ok to take the windows route and just execute everything.
BingoBoingo: I have not seen a graphical WWW browser other than Dillo that does not execute any documents.
mircea_popescu: and, of course, curl. that golden standard of all browsers
BingoBoingo: Links, lynx, and curl sure, but still how much ought these be trusted??? WIth their stinky libjpeg
☟︎ BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Links displays images, Lynx is the one that doesn't
mircea_popescu: "angela", stop being a derp, we need chinese speakers for better jobs than mashing hands on keyboards to produce email addresses.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: "Singyue star, china". you know, like "rome, wisconsin".
trinque: gabriel_laddel: how do I refer to your CLOS object which represents a paper you have written? I would like to direct people to it from my CLOS object representing a blog post.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28700 @ 0.0007479 = 21.4647 BTC [-] {4}
trinque: this the web has, and it is why it blew up.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Nah, Chicoms are mixing US corn with polymer to make rice now. Cheapest option
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Ah, sorry. People make paper for cigarettes out of rice starch.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:05:13; trinque: I've only so far written macros to deal with the hair of someone else's shit
mircea_popescu: which is directly that, hair on someone else's shit (aka game server)
gabriel_laddel: trinque: Right now I can press C-t m, pull up a "map" of all "research nodes" and "lessons" and right click to get a menu from which I can run the associated program.
trinque: yep, that's sort of how I see them; this interface is butts, I would like to pretend it is not
mircea_popescu: (ie, that's the point of a game in the general sense : to not let you solve problems the obvious way. (which in this context would just be skill++ or something equivalent))
trinque: gabriel_laddel: you will not have the whole internet on one machine!
trinque: what is the addressing mechanism for a world of clos objects?
trinque: I want to make reference to your information, not host it
gabriel_laddel: I don't see how you'll be able to reference things on WoTnet further than "the joe I know with this pub key"
trinque: mircea_popescu: indeed! I don't think gabriel_laddel sees what hypertext is
BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel> I don't see how you'll be able to reference things on WoTnet further than "the joe I know with this pub key" << Publication. Paper and film only have the problem that they are slow and take too much volume for their information density. Why should machines not offer a path at least as safe.
mircea_popescu: tbh this extended hypertext thing i got on trilema kicks all imaginable butt
mircea_popescu: 50 times a day i go for it on random sites and they're too web 0.5 for it
trinque: yep, and I wanna poke someone's data set with something that specific
trinque: gabriel_laddel has a CLOS object which represents his number of slithey toves
trinque: and I want to make reference to that, not copy it
gabriel_laddel: trinque: you can only make a reference with 'respect to me'
gabriel_laddel: nano sources: Total Physical Source Lines of Code (SLOC) = 21,577
trinque: define "with respect to me"
trinque: gabriel_laddel: so you have your own addressing scheme
trinque: www also worked because HTTP
trinque: not your particular way of addressing things per server
gabriel_laddel: trinque: I have a listing of programs associated with my PGP identity, you can make references to them, and people will be able to see them (or not) based on my trust relationship with them. Your "references" can be any arbitary computation, buut probably some standards will evolve (e.g., we don't check sexprs who pass some test of being a plist of the structure (:name ... :version ...)).
gabriel_laddel: it will evolve out of whatever the "networking" substrate ends up being and tbh, I don't see what the big deal is?
gabriel_laddel: none of this is hard to code - you hack around until something "clicks"
BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel> trinque: I have a listing of programs associated with my PGP identity, you can make references to them, and people will be able to see them (or not) based on my trust relationship with them... << It is essential for WoT to exist that I can safely point at the enemy's words and bury them in sulfur
BingoBoingo: But that means their publication MUST BE safe, crippled, non-executable characters
BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel> "I don't want to see people who cite XYZ" << No who cites XYZ is how you make rope to hang
gabriel_laddel: whatever, the point is that the structure is available for me to make arbitrary computations against
mircea_popescu: <gabriel_laddel> nano sources: Total Physical Source Lines of Code (SLOC) = 21,577 << win. srsly.
☟︎ gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: fuck you and your intuition about things
trinque: this whole email thing is a turd
trinque: spamassassin raping my VPS
BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel> whatever, the point is that the structure is available for me to make arbitrary computations against << FYIAD, I don't need structure: I eat, hang, and burn
BingoBoingo: <trinque> spamassassin raping my VPS << I don't find email important enough to not outsource
gabriel_laddel: punkman: yeah, several people have dropped that link on me
punkman: required reading for anyone dabbling in hypertext
punkman: gabriel_laddel: yeah, don't be ted nelson :P
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: are you running Masamune in production?
BingoBoingo: How can one even pretend to have a hypertext spec or its substitute without citing <em>Vannevar Bush</em>
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: I did the project, they thought it had "too many options" so I'm cutting some out
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: I should actually be cutting out options right now, but I'm instead drinking and browsing the net
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: but goddamnit I need interns. I got maxima loaded into my master lisp proc over the weekend and I'm going to play around with that whenever I have free time.
☟︎ ben_vulpes: what does 'master lisp proc' mean in this context? the lisp image you run continuously?
gabriel_laddel: for those of you who have not seen femlisp, MGL-MAT and MJR_CALC, the full nifty of this might not be readily apparent.
gabriel_laddel: all loaded in the same proc, all with access to BLAS, CUDA etc.
assbot: Logged on 30-07-2015 01:39:10; mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-07-2015#1217142 << doesn't have to be a one size fits all. but if your software can't be built, your software doesn't exist. and it is still upon you to explain how you expect users to use your thing - nobody is going to go do the guesswork of "what the author might have meant", and ESPECIALLY no sane person should ever guess what "obvious" means for anyone else
trinque: BingoBoingo: I'm about ready to pull the plug on this server and give all smtp over to the enemy
mircea_popescu: esp the "no sane person should ever guess what "obvious" means for anyone else." part.
ben_vulpes: trinque: what's happening to your smtp holes?
BingoBoingo: trinque: Fastmail.fm isn't the shittiest. Can't really endorse any email provider, but they are the least condemned as far as I know.
trinque: ben_vulpes: cron job doing sa-learn on incoming spam is choking the box; while moving I have IRC up there instead of at home, proving... laggy
ben_vulpes: wait, what happened to tls cutting all of your spam to nil?
BingoBoingo: "Professionally our methods of transmitting and reviewing the results of research are generations old and by now are totally inadequate for their purpose. If the aggregate time spent in writing scholarly works and in reading them could be evaluated, the ratio between these amounts of time might well be startling. Those who conscientiously attempt to keep abreast of current thought, even in restricted fields, by close and continuou
BingoBoingo: s reading might well shy away from an examination calculated to show how much of the previous month's efforts could be produced on call. Mendel's concept of the laws of genetics was lost to the world for a generation because his publication did not reach the few who were capable of grasping and extending it; and this sort of catastrophe is undoubtedly being repeated all about us, as truly significant attainments become lost in the
BingoBoingo: mass of the inconsequential." << Critical application of actual hypertext
trinque: I give up; google owns mail
BingoBoingo: trinque: Nah Opera/Fastmail beats the shit out of Google
☟︎ ben_vulpes: herr mircea_popescu has as well, you're in good company
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes let it be noted that i had no problem witgh spam, in spuite of not using google.
☟︎ trinque: so I run my own mailserver, and I get what
ben_vulpes: what's your spamsolution, mircea_popescu?
BingoBoingo: Especially relevant for gabriel_laddel: "Babbage, even with remarkably generous support for his time, could not produce his great arithmetical machine. His idea was sound enough, but construction and maintenance costs were then too heavy. Had a Pharaoh been given detailed and explicit designs of an automobile, and had he understood them completely, it would have taxed the resources of his kingdom to have fashioned the thousands of
☟︎ BingoBoingo: parts for a single car, and that car would have broken down on the first trip to Giza."
mircea_popescu: my spamsolution is that all incoming from emails i never sent to is autodropped.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: occasionally i fish through the mire, as a curiosity thing. but it's quite different
mircea_popescu: ie, the "bayesian" twerps have it all wrong. it's dumbass to try and protect an inbox with regexp, and especially their halfbaked regexp based ai
mircea_popescu: however, it's fun to fish in a swamp with regexp. when you feel so inclined.
punkman: ben_vulpes: same idea, does vlc support as many sources though?
mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267314 << for the record, ascribing purpose to phenomena is basically animism 2.0, and just as medieval as the other thing. for all you know gauss was not "a bit of a coward", and your p[rojection into the future whebn discussing einstein more indicative of an anachronistic mind than some sort of valuable intuition. for all you know gauss just didn't think the idiots arou
☝︎ assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:17:33; gabriel_laddel: "On the historical evidence I shall be short. Carl Friedrich Gauss, the Prince of Mathematicians but also somewhat of a coward, was certainly aware of the fate of Galileo —and could probably have predicted the calumniation of Einstein— when he decided to suppress his discovery of non-Euclidean geometry, thus leaving it to Bolyai and Lobatchewsky to receive the flak. It is probably more illuminati
mircea_popescu: nd him were worthy of being told about it. for all you know the notions of "progress and science" incumbent in the perspective you propose are so much masturbatory jizz, and in point of fact intelligent people share their thoughts exactly like a comedian shares his routine : to friends, in a social environment, for the same reasons in the same ways.
☟︎ BingoBoingo: <punkman> ben_vulpes: same idea, does vlc support as many sources though? << VLC, Parole, pretty much eveything works
BingoBoingo: <punkman> save-as doesn't work << If it doesn't the problem is higher up your toolchain
punkman: BingoBoingo: ok, how do I save-as on vimeo?
mircea_popescu: "this femlisp privileges useful work and meaningful abstractions over other verbiage that is a lot more important to us"
mircea_popescu: punkman generally you need a decent video driver, something that does the equivalent of "print to file"
punkman: I assumed "save-as" meant a button already in my browser
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63100 @ 0.00075033 = 47.3458 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: the only way such a thing will be published will be under a tmsr license. for obvious reasons.
punkman: the save-as button I have, does work in many occasions. but mostly doesn't
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: as for that quote, agreed - I should have quoted 3 paragraphs up.
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: and wrt "hacking around until something clicks", this is the only way I know how to work on UIs and other 'finicky' programs? You certainly don't distribute this to friends who don't program.
gabriel_laddel: so, for example, the notion of references on a CLIMweb running on a WoTnet
mircea_popescu: i still manage to distribute trilema to people who don't program
mircea_popescu: note that im not saying this is a good idea. i'm entirely unconvinced at the moment. but still, fwiw, iwii.
gabriel_laddel: sure, but you rewrite sentences several times before you distribute.
mircea_popescu: i would estimate less than 1% of trilema words were ever rewritten. it's pretty much first pass.
thestringpuller: i read an article that F. Scott Fitzgerald used to revise for years after his first draft...
mircea_popescu: flaubert is famous for having declaredly spent weeks trying to decide on a temperature value in cote de chez swann
ben_vulpes: no stop i have to go do things to a girl
mircea_popescu is kind-of nonplussed nobody called him on the misattribution of proust's work. but anyway, twas "Bouvard et Pécuchet", and the dilemma was 30 or 34, and he settled on 30. you people need to read more literature.
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: ftr, MJR_CALC compiles without any work on my part aside from
gabriel_laddel: (eval (read-from-string "(mjr_meta::mjr_meta_load-packages :BASE-PATH \"~/quicklisp/local-projects/lispy/\")"))
gabriel_laddel: (eval (read-from-string "(mjr_meta::mjr_meta_use-packages :BASE-PATH \"~/quicklisp/local-projects/lispy/\")")))
gabriel_laddel: Completing the above thought (CLIMweb) : there are two obvious categories of references, those that contain (backup) the reference and those that do not. Those that do not should be of one of two types - an identifier coupled with an identity, which you can use to lookup in the WoT you can "see" and "speculative" references, e.g., some arbitary computation.
gabriel_laddel: Now, I don't *know* exactly what particular sexpr will 'click' for my program, so I'll write a few versions, find something I like and then distribute it.
BingoBoingo: <punkman> I assumed "save-as" meant a button already in my browser << Of all things Chromium on OpenBSd has this along with most other browsers
BingoBoingo: <gabriel_laddel> (let* ((mjrcalc-path (qlpp "/lispy/")))... << How exactly to we trust this far before hardware?
BingoBoingo: Pretending to thing that do not yet exist is the definition of "terminal psychosis"
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel Seriously read the Vannevar Bush paper. You are solving too many problems with too few tools. Classic circular saw/Hammer problem.
BingoBoingo: "Let us project this trend ahead to a logical, if not inevitable, outcome. The camera hound of the future wears on his forehead a lump a little larger than a walnut. It takes pictures 3 millimeters square, later to be projected or enlarged, which after all involves only a factor of 10 beyond present practice. The lens is of universal focus, down to any distance accommodated by the unaided eye, simply because it is of short focal l
BingoBoingo: ength. There is a built-in photocell on the walnut such as we now have on at least one camera, which automatically adjusts exposure for a wide range of illumination. There is film in the walnut for a hundred exposures, and the spring for operating its shutter and shifting its film is wound once for all when the film clip is inserted. It produces its result in full color. It may well be stereoscopic, and record with two spaced glas
BingoBoingo: s eyes, for striking improvements in stereoscopic technique are just around the corner." << This was Vannevar's design
BingoBoingo: Laser printers etc. "Another process now in use is also slow, and more or less clumsy. For fifty years impregnated papers have been used which turn dark at every point where an electrical contact touches them, by reason of the chemical change thus produced in an iodine compound included in the paper. They have been used to make records, for a pointer moving across them can leave a trail behind. If the electrical potential on the p
BingoBoingo: ointer is varied as it moves, the line becomes light or dark in accordance with the potential." << Are we getting spooked yet?
BingoBoingo: OLEDs how do they work? "Use chemically treated film in place of the glowing screen, allow the apparatus to transmit one picture only rather than a succession, and a rapid camera for dry photography results."
BingoBoingo: Also actual computers, a rarity: "With machines for advanced analysis no such situation existed; for there was and is no extensive market; the users of advanced methods of manipulating data are a very small part of the population. There are, however, machines for solving differential equations—and functional and integral equations, for that matter. There are many special machines, such as the harmonic synthesizer which predicts
BingoBoingo: the tides. There will be many more, appearing certainly first in the hands of the scientist and in small numbers."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15550 @ 0.00074639 = 11.6064 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:29:01; punkman: trinque: the web still exists; gotta deal with that monstrosity somehow << need a sane browser first, without JS. then we can start writing custom handlers for heathen websites that we are unable to view.
mircea_popescu: making a SECURE browser would kick so much ass... and it is not actually THAT hard. not in the sense that it's not hard, but in the sense that we have an IMMENSE advantage over everyone else, from mozilla to who have you, in the "piss on the world and light it on fire" doctrine.
☟︎ assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:30:29; trinque: BingoBoingo: I would much rather download someone's signed lisp program and run that locally than have this horrible half-creature that grabs code from everywhere, tries to "sandbox" it, and runs without so much as a gpg fart in the wind
Naphex: mircea_popescu: oh man browsers still can't render the same thing properly :o
mircea_popescu: they never will. the browser process as it exists is almost an exact mirror of the us "democracy" electroal process.
mircea_popescu: it will converge to sense. eventually. in the year 72015.
mircea_popescu: (in the year 72015 in the sense that it can be mathematially proven it won't happen before. but who knows, maybe after. patience little wanobi!)
Naphex: chrome runs it okay, but its filled with goog data plugs; got to spend 40mins just to do a "sane" config. Firefox somehow got stuck in 2010. And IE just gets stuck eats all memory and crashes with OOM
Naphex: the typical stuff when doing "webapps"
mircea_popescu: maybe this is retarded, but, wouldn't you be better off adding a slight delay, converting to something like gifv on the fly and relying on html5 ?
Naphex: getting everything rendered server-side would probably help
Naphex: but not worth it at all
Naphex: use plain html5, render stuff on the fly
Naphex: it's pretty meh, video is solved with flash and rtmp. the other interface "eye-candy" and functionality is what bogs most of it down
Naphex: web video as in the new mp4 and webrtc is pretty much useless for low-latency video streaming
punkman: flash doesn't belong in sane browser though
Naphex: punkman: it doesn't but it's a bussiness pick
Naphex: RTMP has a lot of hardware support[switchers, video compositing, streaming tools, relays;etc] and most video producers just use that
Naphex: now adobe has some sort of patent on RTMP
Naphex: so most browsers implement webrtc; you have to rely on 3rd party video players(like vlc) or flash to decode and render the content
Naphex: you could also try HLS from apple for some decent compatibilty and just delivering mp4 parts by HTTP
Naphex: but it's a straight up 2s->5s delay for everything
Naphex: which users absolutely hate in the context of live video chat
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18298 @ 0.0007484 = 13.6942 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23612 @ 0.00075251 = 17.7683 BTC [+]
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 239.06, Best ask: 239.1, Bid-ask spread: 0.04000, Last trade: 239.06, 24 hour volume: 14672.0436584, 24 hour low: 239.23, 24 hour high: 246.52, 24 hour vwap: None
Naphex: shinohai: belize is so screwed :))
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14100 @ 0.0007484 = 10.5524 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 04:33:59; gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: because there is a lot of information that needs to be sucked out of the web, and having a 'sharp' blade with which to do this will be quite valuable moving forwards.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 04:33:11; pete_dushenski: though i have to say, asciilifeform, for a starved man, you think mighty clearly.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 02:31:21; asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: speaking of this, does kakobrekla's magical car still run ?
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 04:45:27; punkman: and what's wrong with notation/dsl/mini-languages?
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 04:57:07; gabriel_laddel: because you can always "open up" any "structure" and are guaranteed to get more of the same i.e., lisp, i.e., sexprs
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:04:15; trinque: BingoBoingo: I would say mr gabriel_laddel has it, that all syntaxes can be done within the lisp system, and simultaneously you find that the vast majority aren't necessary
shinohai: @ asciilifeform is your node back up and running? One I was connected to is down :/
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:29:01; punkman: trinque: the web still exists; gotta deal with that monstrosity somehow << need a sane browser first, without JS. then we can start writing custom handlers for heathen websites that we are unable to view.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:53:02; mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel re "bind *real-eval* to nil" meh. this works in the same sense "provable code" works. in academia.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:53:08; mircea_popescu: you won't have a leakless pipe, ever.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:56:14; pete_dushenski: google mostly creates 'services' for 'free', undermines field, then mothballs and leaves a competitive void
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48836 @ 0.00074457 = 36.3618 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 05:58:00; BingoBoingo: <trinque> I am trying to make a point of BingoBoingo's lamentations << I grad school I was in serious discussions where we lamented fiber optic was not used for project film over hundreds of miles.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:09:10; mircea_popescu: "angela", stop being a derp, we need chinese speakers for better jobs than mashing hands on keyboards to produce email addresses.
shinohai: Zoolag: trying connection 195.211.154.159:8333 lastseen=-372722.3hrs lasttry=-400500.1hrs
shinohai: connect() failed after select(): Connection refused
shinohai: I changed the ip in my alias, dunno why it is still connecting there
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:26:09; mircea_popescu: <gabriel_laddel> nano sources: Total Physical Source Lines of Code (SLOC) = 21,577 << win. srsly.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6700 @ 0.00074276 = 4.9765 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:35:19; gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: but goddamnit I need interns. I got maxima loaded into my master lisp proc over the weekend and I'm going to play around with that whenever I have free time.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:41:27; BingoBoingo: trinque: Nah Opera/Fastmail beats the shit out of Google
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:41:47; mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes let it be noted that i had no problem witgh spam, in spuite of not using google.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:43:01; mircea_popescu: my spamsolution is that all incoming from emails i never sent to is autodropped.
shinohai: Ironically I have zero problem with Spam on my email provider. Trilema hates it though.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10914 @ 0.00074276 = 8.1065 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:42:51; BingoBoingo: Especially relevant for gabriel_laddel: "Babbage, even with remarkably generous support for his time, could not produce his great arithmetical machine. His idea was sound enough, but construction and maintenance costs were then too heavy. Had a Pharaoh been given detailed and explicit designs of an automobile, and had he understood them completely, it would have taxed the resources of his kingdom to hav
assbot: Logged on 26-11-2014 00:46:13; asciilifeform: have to understand, jet fighter is not really a complete machine. it is a tentacle of the larger industrial slave empire which produced and employed it.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:49:05; mircea_popescu: nd him were worthy of being told about it. for all you know the notions of "progress and science" incumbent in the perspective you propose are so much masturbatory jizz, and in point of fact intelligent people share their thoughts exactly like a comedian shares his routine : to friends, in a social environment, for the same reasons in the same ways.
assbot: Logged on 05-03-2014 23:12:13; asciilifeform: people who regularly have ideas usually have fat notebooks full of strange
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 08:40:53; mircea_popescu: making a SECURE browser would kick so much ass... and it is not actually THAT hard. not in the sense that it's not hard, but in the sense that we have an IMMENSE advantage over everyone else, from mozilla to who have you, in the "piss on the world and light it on fire" doctrine.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:02:15; mircea_popescu: the lulz being that ubuntu gedit goes "do you want this file displayed or executed ?"
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 04:33:59; gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: because there is a lot of information that needs to be sucked out of the web, and having a 'sharp' blade with which to do this will be quite valuable moving forwards.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 06:04:07; BingoBoingo: Links, lynx, and curl sure, but still how much ought these be trusted??? WIth their stinky libjpeg
punkman: what is 'sane browser' ? << must render HTML+CSS, with pictures. I don't need webfonts/flash/silverlight/java/webgl. A scripting language that doesn't suck would be nice, so I can perhaps write some userscripts for certain websites. Small amounts of signed javascript might be okay.
punkman: asciilifeform: I run noscript, a lot of it works.
davout: ;;later tell mircea_popescu sure, send me the details
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11100 @ 0.00075143 = 8.3409 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 04:13:30; mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=05-09-2015#1263077 << continuing our series of "power rangers are retarded lol", today's installment : bitcoind's idea of "passwords" allows digita and lowercase characters. no symbols no uppercase. not only does this mean a bitcoind pw is half the strength of a normal pw, but (the actual likely purpose of this retardation) it makes it trivial to identify wallet pa
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 04:11:58; ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: if gpg is so librarification-resistant, how have you jammed it into the cardano?
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 03:06:35; BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Damn it, you got me looking at TI-92's nao
funkenstein_: "All humans, because of their upbringing, tend toward one of the four “control dramas”: intimidators steal energy from others by threat. Interrogators steal it by judging and questioning. Aloof people attract attention (and energy) to themselves by acting reserved or withdrawing. And poor me’s make us feel guilty and responsible for them."
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 03:55:51; mircea_popescu: ;;google 镇压反革命
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 03:51:24; mircea_popescu: mats that's nice to have. i always puzzled over the incredibly poor security of mobile as a design decision
assbot: Logged on 19-02-2015 20:48:27; ascii_field: great sim heist << transparent nsa smokescreen. gsm uses toy crypto since day one (usg mandate) and has always been breakable with minimal effort.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6009 @ 0.00074734 = 4.4908 BTC [-]
punkman: even if phones had good crypto up to basestation, doesn't help that much
☟︎ assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 13:43:29; punkman: even if phones had good crypto up to basestation, doesn't help that much
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 01:34:19; mircea_popescu: there is no enemy but the enemy.
kakobrekla: it almost reminds me of monthy python, the vid.
kakobrekla: if a burglar breaks in my home, he can stay until years later judge decides he really shouldn't.
punkman: kakobrekla: are there lots of squatters in your parts?
kakobrekla: wouldnt say lots but i know of one such case happening at this very moment. only its even worse than described.
funkenstein_: the problem appears to be that you asked the judge
kakobrekla: the thing is, the exploiter a supposed victim of the 1990 yugo breaking up and in has been given 'priority processing' & 'priority lawyer support' from state for free. Exploitee is a poor old woman with nothing.
kakobrekla: yes, they call them selfs 'the deleted'
kakobrekla: a bunch of nogoodfornothings exploiting state.
kakobrekla: the story is they did not get their papers straitened out at the time slovenia parted yugo
kakobrekla: and they were 'deleted' for many years.
kakobrekla: that thought "fuck ill just go back to croatia later"
kakobrekla: only to figure out "i dont want to go back to croatia" later on.
kakobrekla: asciilifeform come here, sit in someones house, you are good for years.
kakobrekla: they literally call them selfs 'izbrisani'. you will prolly understand the word.
shinohai: Kinda like BTC, if you don't own private keys you don't own anything.
funkenstein_: asciilifeform, gold is best kept -away- from fortresses
assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 20:46:17; asciilifeform: but, as every treatise on the subject invariably begins with, first try to understand what is to be hidden - and from whom
funkenstein_: related story, guy sees neighbor has dug many holes in his yard. what is going on?
funkenstein_: guy says: "can't find gold, i dig it up every year to check".
funkenstein_: "well then, why not just put some tinfoil in there?"
assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 21:36:01; asciilifeform: if you are reading this - it is almost certainly a terrible use of your time.
shinohai: The top 10 clean or ‘least-shady’ TLDs are: .gov and .mil LMAO
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3300 @ 0.00073928 = 2.4396 BTC [-]
funkenstein_: well if we work for the benefit of archaeologists, might as well throw them a bone once in a while :)
shinohai: Surely usg wants you to buy their minted gold.
shinohai: But God forbid you "destroy" it, i.e. melt to make your own bullion.
shinohai: Not like they can't or won't just make it legal/illegal on a whim at the stroke of a pen.
assbot: Logged on 17-08-2015 19:35:54; mircea_popescu: irl, settlement's a paperwoirk affair and actual delivery is much disconsidered. as a token of the fact that everyone involved would muchly want reality to match their representation to the degree of absolute identity. so they desconsider the later.
shinohai: Paper just gives me the illusion of owning something I actually do not.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46091 @ 0.0007469 = 34.4254 BTC [+]
shinohai: Who allows these people to reproduce?
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36163 @ 0.00074109 = 26.8 BTC [-] {4}
shinohai: What is hilarious ascii_field is *their whole lives are just shattered* because they cannot monitor their snowflakes from a screen.
VariaVarietatis: point me to how to test my rotor is working? It seems to be able to getblockinfo but not getbalance using bitcoin-cli can't seem to find anything in the logs, mostly due to not knowing that to search for.
shinohai: Are you prefixing with LC_ALL=C ?
VariaVarietatis: shinohai: yea and I put my local ip 127.0.0.1 and node 195.211.154.159
shinohai: and afaik rotor doesn't use bitcoin-cli
shinohai: Same as the old days bitcoind getbalance, etc
VariaVarietatis: shinohai: like LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind getbalance 12R4kPeSK6i9427ctH15j2NcJ1ST1FT21C -myip=127.0.0.1 -addnode=195.211.154.159 ?
shinohai: Just LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind getbalance is sufficient
shinohai: Unless you specified a different datadir
shinohai: I added an alias so I don't have to type all that every time but it works for me
VariaVarietatis: shinohai: datadir? i'm running one copy connected then used another copy to run LC_ALL=C ./bitcoind getbalance 12R4kPeSK6i9427ctH15j2NcJ1ST1FT21C gives me 0.0 but checking on blockchain it shows me this account has 27 btc
shinohai: Is this an address you control ?
shinohai: Shouldn't you use "validateaddress" instead?
jurov: sooo...an scam-cheap "KingDian" SSD came today from shenzhen, i have proceeded to test it with "badblocks -b 4096 -w -t random"
shinohai: wait, that doesnt return balance info ...hrm
jurov: had an uneasy feeling, went to check its source code
jurov: and of! course! it uses same random pattern for every block
☟︎ shinohai: It is running fine, at least I see no issues.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25793 @ 0.00074462 = 19.206 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: 21days 2hours for blockheight 318709 on this current node.
VariaVarietatis: shinohai: I looked in the logs for this info found nothing sorry also stuff on maillist is only about building not using.
shinohai: VariaVarietatis: use getinfo and look at your block height
punkman: jurov: and of! course! it uses same random pattern for every block << it says this in the manual
shinohai: Yes you must wait for it to sync
shinohai: Make some tea, roll a doob, go bang a prostitute.
punkman bought a bag of chinese usb flash sticks with write-protect switch for "one-time use" and such
jurov: punkman: here teh manul only says "the word "random", which specifies that the block should be filled with a random bit pattern."
punkman: VariaVarietatis: you should be able to find them on your favourite chinese gadget website
VariaVarietatis: Never been to a chinese gadget site, where do you look for such a thing?
punkman: ;;google chinese gadget site
assbot: MeDisk Password Protected Security USB 2.0 Flash Drive - Black + Silver (8GB) - Worldwide Free Shipping - DX ... (
http://bit.ly/1Lkp8WP )
jurov: okay but i wanted something cheap and still performant enough to use with pogo
punkman: jurov: so does the cheap ssd work?
assbot: KingDian S400XT 2.5" SATA3 SMI2246XT Solid State Drive SSD - Black (60GB) - Free Shipping - DealExtreme ... (
http://bit.ly/1LkpoVR )
ascii_field: jurov: my experiments led me to the conclusion that usb (at least usb2) won't cut it, period.
jurov: going to rewrite it with aes-encrypted /dev/zero, will report
jurov: (urandom gives paltry 18MB/s, another annoyance of today)
ascii_field: these measurements can be deceptive re: pogo in particular, on account of the latter's sensitivity to cpu and especially bus starvation
punkman: jurov: what's the purpose of these tests?
jurov: punkman i got a crate of pogos, doing some research about matchin'them with cheap ssd's
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15400 @ 0.0007443 = 11.4622 BTC [-] {3}
punkman: jurov, well yes, but what is "rewrite it with aes-encrypted /dev/zero" gonna tell you?
jurov: that it isn't such a scam as the price indicates and can probably bear the blockchain
jurov: after rewrite, there will be read and comapre the sum
jurov: badblocks test was inconsequential, cuz the drive could easily optimize it away
ascii_field: punkman: how else would you propose to verify that the drive can hold the X MB that vendor claimed it holds ?
punkman: ascii_field, I wouldn't think fake capacity numbers are a problem, but yeah I guess you gotta write $x GB of data to it that can't be compressed away
☟︎ punkman: "It's indeed impressive that Trunk Archive managed to match these little ink splotches." << makes one wonder how much computing power is being wasted on this
ascii_field: 'You see, not only are they trying to get us to pay them for using a few ink splotches, but as it turns out, the ink splotches don't belong to them in the first place! Our cover artist happened to keep meticulous records (probably not something they anticipated) and traced the source of the ink splotches to a Finnish artist...'
ascii_field: 'I did some ink backgrounds for my upcoming artworks, and I thought I'd share the textures with the rest of the world. Free for non-commercial/commercial use. Feel free to post on your blogs etc. Crediting is not required, but would be nice.'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58650 @ 0.000741 = 43.4597 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: You rated user shinohai on 03-Jul-2015, with a rating of 1, and supplied these additional notes: New blood..
shinohai: Thx. 2600 was like the first irc server I ever used.
shinohai: In other copyright news, the author of the song "Eye of the Tiger" is considering suing Kim Davis for using the song at her release from jail rally yesterday.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41900 @ 0.00073723 = 30.8899 BTC [-] {5}
ascii_field: shinohai: as if it were difficult to make master keys based on disassembled lock.
mircea_popescu: so wait. carrying water not being difficult (when one is not obese) is somehow a detraction from plumbing ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20300 @ 0.00073709 = 14.9629 BTC [-]
shinohai: Whatever you paid for that was worth every satoshi.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6915 @ 0.0007447 = 5.1496 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 11:41:49; asciilifeform:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267274 << gabriel_laddel: you are speaking mostly to folks who haven't grasped lisp. sorta like showing a modern army base to medieval commander - he will not be able to see past it being 'a terrible castle, where the fuck are the walls and moats'
mircea_popescu: and it has proven this point in medieval places, such as iraq.
mircea_popescu: modern military still suffers of the problem of the panzer 80 years ago : can take any position and hold absolutely none.
ascii_field: and rifle is an absolutely terrible longbow, also
mircea_popescu: not so. there is no contest where people armed with rifles lose to people armed with bows.
mircea_popescu: there are NUMEROUS contests where people in modern bases lose to partisans.
ascii_field: not clear that castle would have changed the outcome there
mircea_popescu: also note that medieval commander answered for permanence. whereas modern commander answers for "accomplishment". very different end goals drive very different behaviours.
mircea_popescu: for austin, "taking baghdad" once a week for three years straight would have been an excellent outcome : over one hundred allied victories!!11
ascii_field: american commander answers for... hell knows what? boots properly polished ?
jurov: so.. the ssd passed and the rotor will have something to rotate
mircea_popescu: try telling that to as-saffah tho, "i've lost baghdad once a week"
ascii_field: jurov: very spiffy. consider posting what part you used, how tested, where to buy...
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 11:43:38; asciilifeform: just as properly made furniture does not contain glue.
ascii_field: perhaps i ought to have said, 'contains very little glue'
shinohai: Thx jurov. On my list of items to purchase when I actually get a working pogo binary.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 11:50:01; kakobrekla: btw iirc today is tx spam day ?
jurov: shinohai: i'd recommend to use 120G version instead, 60G will be obsolete soon
BingoBoingo: But as a point, properly made furniture does in fact not include nails
mircea_popescu: speaking of "will be obsolete soon" : we need that aribtrary checkpoint thing. if provided, node owner could store old chain apart.
mircea_popescu: there are some fine examples from chinese era of overabundance when they used supertiny nails.
BingoBoingo: Interlocking cuts, glue, and clamps are the way, the truth, and the light in furniture
mircea_popescu: ascii_field you know how the code nos supports "developer mandated" checkpoints ?
shinohai: K jurov. mats sent me sufficient btc to purchase a pogo, but I only got an inferior drive with it. Planned on getting something a little more robust
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 11:56:36; asciilifeform: yes, bury it in the forest for 80 years and perhaps it will leak.
jurov: even after checkpoints, it's nice to have for querying the history
shinohai: Better to have room for growth
mircea_popescu: jurov yeah but the idea being that you run many nodes with smaller disks for day to day ops
mircea_popescu: and have a airgapped system with the full history etc that's not exposed to the internet.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: the 'checkpoint' thing is actually useless as implemented now, it merely skips verification for the listed blocks
mircea_popescu: different tools for different jobs as it were. the corrosive substance of usg-ness makes anyth9ng on the public net vulnerable, and zerging the only possible approach to survival.
ascii_field: what we considered wanting was an entirely different kind of checkpoint
mircea_popescu: ascii_field btw, i started a measuring, my node pulls ~600 blocks/hour
mircea_popescu: i didn't boither measuring early, who the fuck cares, but i would guess it did 10k an hour or some shit
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: incidentally, dulap is all backed up.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: not waiting for replacement ?
ascii_field: but this is prolly not worth whatever mircea_popescu is paying for it
ascii_field: the demise of this box is unfortunate. i was gonna put an experimental version of www-ized 'v' explorer there, also
ascii_field: and it was where 'bleeding edge' therealbitcoin lived.
mircea_popescu: obviously if people weren't schmucks we could have nice things.
mircea_popescu: and we'll kill them, and they'll want to know why, "Que tes ennemis expirants"
mircea_popescu: and we probably won't bother to answer, and they'll derp more, in their children, and so it goes.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: feel free to log in & zero the disk whenever.
ascii_field: there is literally nothing secret on this box.
mircea_popescu: but anyway : "racism" is exactly the derp word for sexual preference. the reason some people don't like other people is purely sexual.
ascii_field: trinque: who else could be 'likely enemy' ?! martians ?!??
trinque: obviously I'm not surprised at that.
trinque: I eagerly await the overturning of the world, as it has been chewing the back of my mind a long while.
ascii_field: 'sergeant: private! why were you walking the street wearing the pants of the Likely Enemy ?!' ('80s ru army joke)
mircea_popescu: "an undismissable argument may be brought that this will be so"
mircea_popescu: pointedly no judgement as to likeliness or future course of events is made
mircea_popescu: what the word describes is a purely intellectual situation, today.
mircea_popescu: sad that the anglos have no languages, or linguistics whatsoever.
mircea_popescu: nuts. romanian has the word, same meaning, but the r migrated.
mircea_popescu: is this a latin influence in russian, is тивник anything ?
jurov: slovak has exactly same word
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: consonants wander as you go west
jurov: czechs too incidentally
mircea_popescu: the czechs consonants wandered because they munch too much cunmt
mircea_popescu: anyway in ro it has an entire migrated family : deopotriva (of the same ilk), impotriva (against) etc
mircea_popescu: the cannonical rejection of misplaced familiarity being "nu suntem deopotriva" ie, we're not of the same social level.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: thestringpuller your article ever end up onb twitter ?
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 19:33:01; mircea_popescu: the cannonical rejection of misplaced familiarity being "nu suntem deopotriva" ie, we're not of the same social level.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: they have many more than 2 ты/вы addresses
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: yea. that too. actually got submitted by 3 separate people @_@
ascii_field: e.g., male-superior, female-superior, male-divine, female-divine, male-subordinate, female-subordinate, male-child, female-child, ..., prolly more
ben_vulpes: <BingoBoingo> Interlocking cuts, glue, and clamps are the way, the truth, and the light in furniture << aye aye
ben_vulpes: but when i want to build builtins in my rental, i use compressed air and nails.
trinque: I recall recently Putin calling for an international something against terrorism.
trinque: I wonder if that will develop into something specific against US-supported terrorism.
mircea_popescu: lmao if the romanians manage the performance of leasing some land to the russians right next to the land their leased the americans to make their military bases
ascii_field: (iirc the ru lease in cuba lapsed when they couldn't make rent in '90s)
mircea_popescu: trinque anyway, the su's got that superb su, they gotta use it before the window closes in 5 -10years.
mircea_popescu: (/me vaguely suspects that much like the french get the trophy for "last and therefore best supersonic air transport", the ru may get the trophy for "last and therefore best" fighter jet. i somehow doubt a better one's ever getting made, by anyone)
ascii_field: not many folks remember today who made the best bombard, either.
mircea_popescu: not many folks remember today where their asshole is located. wut of it.
trinque: gonna be a sad thing when we try to field whichever f35s can fly
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29200 @ 0.00074359 = 21.7128 BTC [-] {3}
ascii_field: trinque: why not simply throw trunks of benjies at the enemy, aha
ascii_field: (before window closes ! while they're worth something !)
mircea_popescu: "why learn how to shoot ? fire our ICBM Pea at your enemies!"
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: iirc lockheed was advertising this
ascii_field: doesn't mean quite same thing as 'happened' aha
trinque: there was some DoD wank about self-steering bullets
mircea_popescu: and MIT was adverttiosing "learn how to light lightbulbs and other wonders of 1800 science! TODAY!"
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2015 04:28:52; asciilifeform: in j. sladek's 'tik tok', sf novel in '83, in the 'dark future' (tm) an aircraft-carrier-with-wheels, vast and infinitely expensive, is finally built
trinque thought the caspian sea monster and other ground-effect planes were this, but recently considered the value of massive transport across the caspian and black seas
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: self-steering projectile ~really~ wants to be a rocket, not only because guidance apparatus costs and so may as well include large warhead, but also because changing direction kills velocity if all you got is the acceleration in the barrel (classical bullet)
ascii_field: trinque: 'экраноплан' - but think of it as a very fast gunboat, rather than a plane
trinque: the largest one seemed capable of moving more than a few tanks
mircea_popescu: the hercules moves like a dozen planes, and actually flies.
mircea_popescu: if you just have it hover on water, you should be able to move a fucking tank plant.
trinque: bleh, gawker. but anyhow, there's the beast
mircea_popescu: that'd kick ass btw. "our fleet consists of this flagship that is a tank factory. it outputs tanks in continuous motion (60mph) 4 thick."
mircea_popescu: ascii_field hey, i dunno if you ever played this, but there was a GREAT, an absoluterly fucking fantastic game in the pre-windows days
mircea_popescu: 3dmax or something. initialism like that. ace. something.
mircea_popescu: in a distopian future with a very gritty burnished steel look and feel about it, you built all sorts of tanks, helicopters etc,
mircea_popescu: to get the enemy base. did research for them too, gathered resources,
ascii_field: imho even 1980s 'ranger' is unsurpassed still
ascii_field: the one where you were a lone diversant sent behind enemy lines, and had to choose whether the weight of, e.g., extra demo charge is worth losing three frags or five pistol clips, etc
mircea_popescu: ascii_field i suppose this is what the obese have ruined in the world. scarcity.
ascii_field: which is why i was a little surprised when thought it was mentioned
mircea_popescu: "oh but mp, if we make all messages 140 characters your advantages over us won't be so obvious"
lobbes: generally speaking, real time anything is for idiots << heh, Eulora is real-time ;/
lobbes: but hence, the 'generally'
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 12:26:49; asciilifeform: this is not a win.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i suppose it is a win then that i cannot ask stoutemyer anything. after all, my only qualification is 'can walk', aha.
lobbes: mircea_popescu: if you are not playing you 'fall behind' the economy? though, that is the beauty of the 'encouraged bots' system
mircea_popescu: but i'd note that if there was a #derive-assets where i could get a half hour's window, this would be a non problem.
mircea_popescu: lobbes people assume this is the case but i have not observed it to be true.
jurov: mircea_popescu: pls to mpex
trinque: BingoBoingo: you approve of fastmail?
BingoBoingo: trinque: All email providers suck. I don't endorse fastmail, but I condemn it less than other options.
jurov: lobbes: just your skills rust. but low skills are useful,too
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 12:35:42; asciilifeform:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-09-2015#1267767 << this is a CATASTROPHICALLY bad idea, because any attempt is simply asking for self-delusionary masamunification (sorry gabriel_laddel, but you know precisely what i mean.) -- this being, 'aha this is a turd, but WE made it and therefore doesn't stink and is somehow edible'
lobbes: jurov: yeah, it seems n00bs are valuable due to fact. very interesting indeed
trinque: BingoBoingo: certainly; e-mail itself sucks, and I'm ready to accept that it's as bad as using facebook messenger, and let someone else run spamassassin day and night
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 12:36:35; asciilifeform: b) want graphics. WE DON'T HAVE A SANE GRAPHICS STACK
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: if you - or anybody else - can write something recognizable as this item, i promise to take off my hat
trinque: want to send me a real message? gpg-gram me
trinque: I would use a text-only computer all day provided it had something of a net connection
trinque checks his workspaces for graphics, finds only text
mircea_popescu: ascii_field well, that's not the point. the point is that what, seriously, ima sit here and go "hey, this shit's pretty good" ?
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: imho you were falling into this very bear trap with the 'nano' thread
mircea_popescu: trinque i woke up last night to the fact that email only persists because we havewn't fully groked the importance and effects of b-a yet.
ascii_field: it is very easy to become convinced that the only available item doesn't suck
ascii_field: what happened when tmsr didn't have a foundry?
trinque: mircea_popescu: yes I think using "the logs" has a lot of fruit left to give
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: a) enemy reads the logs, mega-surprise aha b) this is roughly isomorphic to the old behaviour, 'crash when full'
shinohai: He never responded to my queries as to why he is too good to sign binaries he barfs out to the wider internet.
mircea_popescu: ascii_field their inability to observe isomorphism is one of their lulziest features.
ascii_field: c) it is necessary so hearn can bolt on tx blacklisting later
jurov: i remember we discussed when the patch went in
mircea_popescu: (and a forced mistake, too. in odrder to avoid noticing the isomorphism between yourself and turd in the sun, you're stuck breaking the isomorphism recognizer)
mircea_popescu: shinohai the key to success is to not answer to negative people. he knows because altman said so.
mircea_popescu: "the xt is not a huge privacy hole because you can recompile it not to be. we're banking on thefact the fucktards in usg-zoo won'tanyway. we don't sign binaries but it could be done if needed except we're banking on idem"
mircea_popescu is looking forward to thew v-tron being misrepresented as "drm".
mircea_popescu: (it will be. and to THEIR detriment, because it's very much a poison pill for that entire industree)
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: neh it'll be 'embraced' and extended
mircea_popescu: github already trying this but it won't work for very good reasons.
ascii_field: rewritten in ruby, claimed to have been in steady use at stanford since 1995, the whole orchestra.
mircea_popescu: for the same rason disinfo agent is stuck discussing "quiantum hjardening" and "cpu arch based attacks". ie, he is NOT ALLOWED to give even a single inch. which terribly boxes him in.
ascii_field struggles to think of even one useful tool that doesn't have a retarded usgized variant - e.g., gpg
mircea_popescu: all the important bits we have are radioactive to them
ascii_field: could have supposed same thing about public key crypto
mircea_popescu: and yes this must stay so. which is why my comment re you must think little of me above.
ascii_field: surely mircea_popescu knows that usg (esp. .mil) makes heavy use of an internal tard pgp by microshit
mircea_popescu: anyway, incorporated here by reference, the discussion where i showed you how holding bitcoin destroys nsa.
mircea_popescu: the same exact principle is to be employed throughout : either they ignore the bits which makes them uncompetitivew
ascii_field: iirc this was a theme in 'lord of the rings' aha
ascii_field: my point was that b-a browser demands b-a machine
mircea_popescu: maybe. i'm firmly in the camp of "let people try things"
BingoBoingo: <ascii_field> my point was that b-a browser demands b-a machine << TI-92
trinque: I have a question regarding this. Would a device operating at the network boundary, parsing packets and only permitting some signed wad in, only signed wads out be valuable in any way?
ascii_field: trinque: i described this device in agonizing detail
ascii_field: some time during the original gossipd thread
mike_c: ben_vulpes: I'm used to doctests. how do i run your v unittests?
jurov: trinque: problem is it can be easily dosed
trinque: aha, and I discussed it with you before as well
ascii_field: trinque: imho it is the only correct way to make a network at all.
jurov: only recourse is for the enemy to not know exact endpoint
ascii_field: what we have today is roughly analogous to early spark gap radio
mircea_popescu: ascii_field and that's also what the msr license is all about, too.
ascii_field: where there was room for exactly one transmitter/receiver per continent
trinque: seems that if everything coming/going is parsed, verified, it drastically reduces the amount of remote exploitation possible
trinque: and that seems a far smaller target to build than a whole new arch
mike_c: kthx. maybe test_v.py should have if __init__==main unittest.main()? is that not standard?
mike_c: i haven't used this module much. not sure what sop is.
mike_c: this module = unittest
ascii_field: mike_c: i'd prefer that someone were to add the desperately needed topological walker, rather than focusing on the little chipped paint bits, but that's just me
jurov: mircea_popescu: i don't see any big obstacle against ddosing 1000 targets with slow connections vs. targeting one
mike_c: i'm just trying to run the tests for now :)
ben_vulpes: mike_c: nominally unittest does test discovery, i focused on making tests though.
ben_vulpes: it should run with python -m unittest from the same directory as v, but...
jurov: i'm trying to imagine this thing. if we are going to have 1000 nodes , they will necessarily be on misc home connections
ben_vulpes: this is a thing i do once per project and always forget how it's supposed to go.
ascii_field: trinque, jurov: if device which silently drops unsigned (or signed by unblessed) packets straight on the floor were mass-produced and inexpensive, ddos as a thing ends.
mircea_popescu: jurov it's unsound to proceed from that point by makin assumptions.
ben_vulpes: and then on top of that, every project i pick up has some arcane setup for running its tests, because...legacy.
ascii_field: or rather, doesn't end, but becomes a voluntary idiocy like running winblowz
mircea_popescu: ascii_field and so as alf would point out, "nothing hapepened"
mike_c: it's running now, and failing.
trinque: seems I could have whatever shitty computers I like behind such a device, and could be relatively certain that no command and control messages are making it in
trinque: provided the device *works* obviously
mircea_popescu: jurov consider the experimentally verified, and publicly at that, fact that ddos couldn't do any appreciabvle harm to qntra, or trilema.
ben_vulpes: mike_c: that is the test i left off at. feel free to replace the "gotcha" assertion with an actual test, or just eliminate the assertion completely.
mircea_popescu: and this without any sort of imperial investments, either. also quite deliberately, and at least in part for the reason of this discussion.
jurov: and they examine each packet signature?
mircea_popescu: because cpus are so much better than pipes these days, a dirty little secret the us telcos have managed to hide from their market like they managed to hide the fact that NOBODY CHARGES FOR INCOMING CALLS!!11,
jurov is now more confused
jurov: the discussion is about per-packet signature verification
jurov: which none named does
jurov: and thus can shrug any ddos
mircea_popescu: when you say ddos people are going to assume you mean, you know, as it is.
mike_c: and if i alter one of the public keys more tests fail, so that's good.
mircea_popescu: ie, you put the filter node up, yet it can't be accessed because syn flood. irrespective of its function.
ascii_field: jurov: basic principle, at least in my variant of its statement, was that an unknown endpoint is to be listened to STRICTLY for as long as it takes to establish that it can sign with a key that you wot.
ascii_field: AND that this can take place at line speed.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: i can show rigorously that it can be. but requires custom si.
ascii_field: also it will of course depend on the line. but you can mux/demux the bits, recall.
trinque: what if it didn't verify the sig; it just verified that it looks like a sig, and hands off to something that can
ascii_field: simply means that the enemy needs to spend three minutes adjusting his shit cannon
trinque doesn't expect fabs on the battlefield, trying to consider what the simplest useful piece of hardware might be
ascii_field: the thing to understand is that 'hardware gosspid' nodes would form an impenetrable skin around a p2p sane internet.
trinque: I understand that very well.
trinque: was imagining a network device connected in three directions, outside world, sig checker, and inside world
trinque: but perhaps yes, sig checker without dedicated sig-checking hardware is too slow?
ascii_field: trinque: sig checker ~must~ operate at line speed, and in practice this means it is integral to the die which actually throws the packets around.
mike_c: hm, v.py is leaking file descriptors all over the place. muy messy :)
jurov: yes that's what i had in mind. nothing stops anyone from producing arbitrary number of "almost signed" packets
trinque: *garbage arranged to look like a sig to a dumb parser
ascii_field: a valid packet is necessarily 1) rsa'd to the node's ephem-key 2) signed by originator's ephem-key
mike_c: ascii_field: what's the plan here? you want updates signed/posted on the mailing list? we going to use v to manage changes to v?
ascii_field: mike_c: i confess that my intent was to have folks rewrite it
ascii_field: and that there would exist several incarnations, which do not ever disagree on answers
ascii_field: just as modern pocket calculators generally agree on arithmetic.
ben_vulpes is struck by a lightningbolt of understanding
mike_c: whelp, the foundation might as well have an implementation
ascii_field: 'v' is far too necessary to remain a me-thing (much less a python-thing or pc-thing)
mike_c: ben_vulpes: you want me to post a full tarball or diffs to mailing list?
trinque: every soldier may assemble his rifle
trinque: I dunno about the tactical sense in every soldier creating his own
trinque: network edge device same, so on
ben_vulpes: mike_c: i posted a tarball, as i did some messy surgery and expected brutal diffs. if you can get cleaner diffs, that'd be great.
trinque expects he has 5 years of semi-stable country at best
mike_c: ok. i'm working from your tarball. I'll see what the diffs end up looking like
ascii_field: my initial 'v' presses rel1 and the bleeding-edge rel2, yes, but it ought to be regarded as a proof-of-concept
ben_vulpes: mike_c: asciilifeform objected to the "which method, which args" approach to routing around argparse's braindamage, so if you have good ideas down there throw 'em out
ascii_field: ben_vulpes: in principle i object to repetition in a proggy
ascii_field: as in, why the fuck do i have to change something in 3 separate places when adding a knob
ben_vulpes: because the way that argparse suggests you set up function calls is stupid as hell!
trinque: so make a lisp data structure and then derive your argparsing code from... oh wait
ascii_field: i will borrow a page from mircea_popescu and say 'i don't give a fuck HOW' it is done
ben_vulpes: you're not wrong, i just hate the straightjacket of argparse's function call behavior.
ascii_field: but all the unix scripting langs are quite alike
mike_c: the two places being the argparse and the switch statement at the end?
ascii_field: mike_c: that's ben_vulpes's version, not mine
mike_c: so many globals :) ok, I'll definitely take a swing at reorganizing a bit
mike_c: and it will be very nice to have a test suite while doing so. so thanks ben_vulpes.
ben_vulpes: mike_c: and that's after i burned out like 70% of them!
ascii_field: this is not a proggy to be 'libraryized' and dijkstraized
mike_c: so don't do it in your implementation
ascii_field: aha, i didn't. specifically in the interest of keeping it short and destroying redundancy
mike_c: I love how small it is.
mike_c: of course, that is partially because of the hairball that is gnupg..
mike_c: why not make it libraryized? if gpg was libraryized shit like this wouldn't be so hard
punkman: ascii_field: mike_c: i'd prefer that someone were to add the desperately needed topological walker, rather than focusing on the little chipped paint bits, but that's just me << what would this walker do?
mike_c: toposort a pile of patches with antescedants and descedants
ascii_field: punkman: handle broken and orphaned chains
ascii_field: to see what i mean, try adding a patch that depends on a rel1 terminus but is not built on by anything else.
ascii_field: because 'press' assumes that ~all~ patches are part of longest chain somewhere.
ascii_field: which is to say, it needs to produce 1) ascii art, wit
ascii_field: these would expand to actual (colourized) diffs which the patch in question concerned.
trinque: ascii_field: just to wrap up the thought, this network device is simply (and exactly) a packet filter that accepts packets through one orifice, checks signatures (presumably has a slot somewhere in its head for pubkeys) and farts them inward via second orifice or drops on the floor
assbot: All of the Nopes: "There is no such thing as the crime of 'rape'" and that's arguably not the worst part : againstmensrights ... (
http://bit.ly/1JmXd7o )
ascii_field: trinque: the 'adult' version would also emit packets. but this is far less essential to 'hardwareize'
ascii_field: given as the overwhelming brunt of the load is on crud rejection
ascii_field: but no, it does not make any sense to consider any of this without si fab
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8600 @ 0.00073983 = 6.3625 BTC [-]
trinque: well I'll consider it, but for my education
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43900 @ 0.00073757 = 32.3793 BTC [-] {4}
trinque: I see two separate problems
trinque: parsing packets in/out according to some grammar
trinque: I can think of many applications on the net I'd like to demand only ever say things according to grammar G
trinque: is not, computer isn't trustworthy
ascii_field: but then again the whole thing is trivial.
ascii_field: but i do not have a fab. wake me up when you have one.
jurov: how was the tx issue resolved? aa956edc2dd94722b5794eaf4e987ebdc8189d2e4c6334c433d7514a28d6b3ab
jurov: alf gotta switch to "unfreeze me when..."
jurov: as in, you have a deal with miner?
mircea_popescu: suffice it to say, 4kb txn SHOULD NOT have any fucking problems.
ascii_field: jurov: it ended with me scouring several GB of packet dump for the tx and not finding it
ascii_field: despite mircea_popescu transmitting nonstop
mircea_popescu: ascii_field at least i didn't need a si fab for it eh.
trinque: "If you wish to eat a nagant, you must first invent the universe."
mircea_popescu intends to mine 1mb txn at some point, just for the fu factor.
mircea_popescu: (the summary of the txn for the curious : 4223 bytes, 250000 fee, 28 inputs of which 17 = 1 satoshi, 2 outputs. none of this should be controversial. fix your implementations of bitcoin relay)
ben_vulpes expects slurptxn at some indefinite point
jurov: there's porn worth preserving?
mircea_popescu: i have more than a coupla gb of porn i shot myself of my own women. and im keeping it.
mircea_popescu: also ftr, the size of the cd was set that way because a certain bigwig wanted to listen to a certain symphony without interruption.
mircea_popescu: there's easily plurious gb of music i also similarly want.
mircea_popescu: there's at least 1k movies that must be kept, and even at the modest 700mb a pop that's 700gb consequently.
ascii_field: what would mircea_popescu hypothetically ~personally~ pay per byte to preserve them ?
ascii_field: in the sense of where they would otherwise disappear.
mircea_popescu: the first and foremost function of government : pointing at whose blood must pay for which bytes.
ascii_field was distracted by fist-sized butterfly trying to get through window glass. a very rare sight in this part of the world.
thestringpuller: 16:55 < Aquentin> if we're ever so lucky as to make use of 8gb blocks
thestringpuller: 16:56 < Aquentin> you'd think miners would love all these new potential users...
thestringpuller: 16:56 < Aquentin> instead they want price fixing lol - how dum
ascii_field: 'whaddayamean the butcher wants to sell the meat, think how many flies he could get'
mircea_popescu: the mark of true potential is when the grid doesn't shake you, but you shake it.
mircea_popescu: this is what mit does, incidentally. "potential engineers". so are you engineers ? no, but we could be.
mircea_popescu: staunch defender ? and here i thought i fucking started the whole thing.
mircea_popescu: "We saw this kind of thing a quarter-century ago, when debates raged over whether commercial activity should be tolerated on the Internet. To those, for whom the World Wide Web and WiFi have always existed, such a question might seem unthinkably naive, but back then the idea of Suits playing in Propellerheads' sandbox was the stuff of epic flame wars."
mircea_popescu: the difference between now and then is you didn'tr have a nigger president, derps.
mircea_popescu: "Anyone who has arrived early at a general admission event will recognize the feeling. You lay out your blanket, thus marking off a small piece of territory for yourself. The other early arrivals do the same. After a while, you start to feel as though that patch of land is yours by right.
mircea_popescu: With time, new arrivals stand around you, generally trying not to step onto your blanket. As the beginning of the event approaches, you find yourself staring into the rather private areas of those who arrived after you, and might even feel a bit of resentment at their impertinence.
mircea_popescu: Eventually, it is utterly hopeless. You stand and try not to lose any of your possessions as the crowd crushes in around you."
cazalla: i always find these threads amusing tbh
cazalla: utter waste of time, but amusing
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 13:29:24; funkenstein_: -- celestine prophecy
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: one of my secret pleasures is to track historical patterns of linguistic theft by pseudoscience from the genuine article
mircea_popescu: ascii_field this is not even pseudoscience. direct equivalent to "respeto"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27600 @ 0.00074659 = 20.6059 BTC [+] {3}
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: aaaahahahaha. jesus it must suck to live in the us. << we usians are pretty much living in idiocracy. soon we'll see mass famine due to watering crops with electrolytes.
mircea_popescu: someone please explains. "mit exists so that...". fill in.
mircea_popescu: can't even fucking keep an article made by its own employees.
mircea_popescu: and then funkenstein wants to talk about "the library of alexandria". because branding.
mircea_popescu: how many libraries of alexandria has each derpy us university destroyed each year since 1965 ?
mircea_popescu: oh, there isn't a word for that so it isn't a thing ? or what ?
ascii_field: everything about mit worth preserving even theoretically costs about 100 usd and is on my bookshelf.
ascii_field: everything else - straight to the fermenter vats.
mircea_popescu: (and since we're doing historical recovery here : the "shame and war" quote comes from churchill, but specifically - it was in a letter to walter guiness. who was assassinated in 1944. by lehi, which was a sort of jdf of the time)
ascii_field thought this was well-known in english world
assbot: It it just me who is seeing a cowardly surrender to cultural decay here? From th... | Hacker News ... (
http://bit.ly/1hYMrxJ )
jurov: BingoBoingo: will you fellate it?
BingoBoingo: jurov: Unfortunately my jaw does not unhinge like a python so unlikely
ascii_field: should've gotten the 89 if that were the plan
BingoBoingo: ascii_field: Thank you for pointing out that market opportunity.
ascii_field: BingoBoingo: you could probably get'em even cheaper if you figured out where they are and why
ascii_field: but unless you need 1,001 of them - no reason to
BingoBoingo: ascii_field: I saw some lots for sale at a far sheaper per unit price. I may have to investigate
mircea_popescu: "What creativity can there be when your medium is shit mixed with sawdust?"
mircea_popescu: The same sort of creativity artists possess, who work with media that are idiosyncratic.
mircea_popescu: they should just buy it and run it togeoops nevermind.
mircea_popescu: "The same sort of creativity artists possess, who work with media that are idiosyncratic. It's a different mindset. I see the reddit-gen programmers talk about things on a completely meta-level. To them, MySql is the hardware. Is it a bad thing? Not necessarily. Some of them hopefully will dig down the stack and be the low-level heroes. But that should (and probably can) only be a small percentage.
mircea_popescu: Now I guess one could argue that those sorts of heroes are what MIT is supposed to produce, but as has been mentioned, this course is not just for CS students. So the real question is, can the CS heroes of tomorrow survive an introductory course in Python? Well, consider that they have probably been modding games since 10, hacking PhP at 12, realizing at 14 they need to learn a 'real' language (C#, Ruby, Python), by 15
mircea_popescu: I bet they've abstracted out the fact that languages are not all that important; they're just the tip of the iceberg of complexity.
mircea_popescu: "we have no answers and are too fat and lazy to move, so let's just agree they will be supplied for free from the ethers as we need them"
ascii_field: lol did i even dignify that with an answer ?!
mircea_popescu: (btw, the lehi/jdf thing above ? nazi ally, originally. yes, that's right.)
trinque: "sql is the hardware" << ow, right in the youth.
mircea_popescu: (they also blew up bernadotte. who, amusingly, is very much the character schindler's list is based on, except not named.
ascii_field: mircea_popescu: 'hagana' et al set the gold standard for blowing up brits, aha
☟︎ mircea_popescu: because rather than paying dues where they are due, how about we just steal their history and pretend it's this guy's instead. he's cheaper)
thestringpuller: trinque: this is how CS students are taught tho sadly. Oracle doesn't with this either.
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 14:21:26; asciilifeform: the conflation of 'owning gold' and 'using xyz vault' is also reminiscent of the mtgox mediatronic idiocies
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 15:11:20; shinohai: Who allows these people to reproduce?
shinohai was flabbergasted these ppl are so upset over such a trivial thing.
jurov: ;;isup blockchain.com
jurov: it says maxed requests
jurov: first spam victim, as usual :)
ascii_field: titled 'Turns out the current crisis was predicted back in early 2013. Goess by whom.'
ascii_field: which is a reddit page, which is a link to qntra
mircea_popescu: "Is it saved in RAM anywhere or perhaps in the java?" << ironically it prolly is lol
kakobrekla: weird, that 'news box' is usually full of _OLD_ spam
mircea_popescu: yeah blockchain's aobut as useful as a suntime umbrella.
kakobrekla: Invest BTC in peer-to-peer loans and get 19% APR with BTCJam.com
kakobrekla: or maybe they lower the apr and make it news
trinque: "huge lack" << stops reading
trinque: BingoBoingo: "My son screams when anyone touches his toys." ... "So, kick his ass when he does that?"
trinque: would not surprise me at all that a lot of this is normal misbehavior left festering like an untreated wound
shinohai: Maybe their nest monitor went down and the kids got autism when they weren't being watched.
BingoBoingo: trinque: Basically that and "My kid was autistic but got better when socialized 40 hours a week with people who give a fuck."
cazalla: an anecdote, but parents want to label their kids autistic as adhd has been done to death
cazalla: because, you know, earning the label requires taking your kid to the gp, to a specialist, to an expert, a support group, filling out paperwork for gov autism assistance bezzlars.. wow look at all this attention my kid is getting, must be special and therefore, so am i as a parent, please Like and subscribe
mircea_popescu: "the dogecoin derps are experts in what bitcoin should be doing"
mircea_popescu: "we're very butthurt at how bitcoin excluded us. it should not do that. we're important. and the place we left to failed."
cazalla: Always Unique, Totally Interesting, Sometimes Mysterious
mircea_popescu: "Always Unique, Totally Interesting, Sometimes Mysterious" << about 1/4 of all retarded housewife profiles.
mircea_popescu: "i'm 30 and my life is over now because i can't be arsed to learn any skills"
shinohai: Ah yes. And naturally they must prove their superiority by some means.
shinohai: I have a never-ending supply of butthurt-bandaids. ( ::: [ ] ::: )
mircea_popescu: if you liked the above bandaid please like and subscribe to the thread!
BingoBoingo: I thought for true butthurt you needed [=========]~~~~~~ tampons instead to apply pressure to the bleeding. WTF is a bandaid going to do?
shinohai: looks like jizz escaping a fleshlight to me
mircea_popescu: "We are all now well aware that the authorities will do absolutely nothing to protect citizens or businesses and will dedicated %100 of their resources to protecting the police and government personnel and facilities."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32200 @ 0.00073709 = 23.7343 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: GEORGE (voice is hoarse from screaming): I...was trying to lead the way. We needed a leader! Someone to lead the way to safety.
mircea_popescu: GEORGE: Because! Because, as the leader...if I die...then all hope is lost! Who would lead? The clown? Instead of castigating me, you should all be thanking me. What kind of a topsy-turvy world do we live in, where heroes are cast as villains? Brave men as cowards?
mircea_popescu: ROBIN: But I saw you push the women and children out of the way in a mad panic! I saw you knock them down! And when you ran out, you left everyone behind!
mircea_popescu: GEORGE: Seemingly. Seemingly, to the untrained eye, I can fully understand how you got that impression. What looked like pushing...what looked like knocking down...was a safety precaution! In a fire, you stay close to the ground, am I right? And when I ran out that door, I was not leaving anyone behind! Oh, quite the contrary! I risked my life making sure that exit was clear. Any other questions?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45150 @ 0.0007411 = 33.4607 BTC [+] {5}
shinohai didn't know mircea_popescu enjoyed Seinfeld .
shinohai: Probably the only show I ever bothered to actually purchase.
mircea_popescu: "On the eve of what may likely be another effort by the white liberal media to fan the flames of race war in Baltimore, I’m not seeing as much flammable human material as the media priesthood would have us believe. Surely there will be enough entitled racist foot soldiers to set another 154 fires at least, to empty another four dozen pharmacies and liquor stores, terrorizing more of their fellow blacks than anyone.
mircea_popescu: What I do not see are locals ready to engage in such activity."
mircea_popescu: lol poor lafond, he could be in rhodesia and not know the difference.
mircea_popescu: no locals engaging ? of course no locals. don't worry abut it, usg will ship foreign armed thugs across the border for as long as it takes you to kill it.
BingoBoingo: How quickly He turned from potential interesting read to anthropological case study.
mircea_popescu: guy's a boxer. what do you want from him. either he gets a master or flails around helplessly, not like he's going to you know, concentrate really hard and attain enlightment.
mircea_popescu: but anyways. he does get the point about how there's no thieves and police, but unsanctioned criminals and sanctioned criminals.
BingoBoingo: Yeah. One of the few tolerable US reads. One of the very few east coast ones.
mircea_popescu: "My commitment to the American people is both simple and straightforward: I will cook any and every number that needs to be cooked. We’ll see continued job growth, probably an unemployment rate under 2 percent. You also have my word that I’ll keep the LFPR above 66 percent. With a little help from my friends, we can probably run a surplus within a year or so, and pay down all our debt over the next decade or so. No
mircea_popescu: thing we can’t do with a little moxie and an Excel spreadsheet or two. (Jeb! – that 4% growth rate you’re pining for? Call me.)
mircea_popescu: Let’s get serious here – if you think the government is cooking all manner of economic releases, you need to explain the LFPR."
mircea_popescu: "we are lying through our teeth and if yo usay this you gotta explain our crankbait"
mircea_popescu: derp. you don't control the narrative. i control the narrative. get fucked.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21200 @ 0.00074816 = 15.861 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform btw, re blackholing : did you also get a lot of socket error 113s ?
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 17:05:30; jurov: and of! course! it uses same random pattern for every block
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nope, not yet. still doing ~600 blocks/hr
shinohai: I am getting some socket recv error 110
assbot: Logged on 09-09-2015 17:44:48; punkman: ascii_field, I wouldn't think fake capacity numbers are a problem, but yeah I guess you gotta write $x GB of data to it that can't be compressed away