▁▁▁▁▁⏐︎ 5004
shinohai: Welp my female companion has sworn off the internet for the evening after reading latest Trilema.
deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2017/07/26/worried-about-the-fork/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - Worried about the fork?
mircea_popescu: heh
phf: mircea_popescu: got it, thinking
mircea_popescu: no rush
mod6: Geraldo?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the arse spider is a win
mircea_popescu: works does it.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: incidentally i oughta dig out ye olde best-of-alt.tasteless archive
mod6: lol, yeah, gnarly.
asciilifeform: some of the folx here might greatly enjoy.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform prolly.
mircea_popescu: put on your blog, make a long post of it.
asciilifeform: incidentally, the derpy usg archive thing purports to have some of the original tarballs google 'harvested' to make its now largely dead usenet search : https://archive.org/details/usenet
asciilifeform: it is possible to glue'em back into something useful
asciilifeform: e.g., https://archive.org/details/utzoo-wiseman-usenet-archive , https://archive.org/details/cdrom-usenet-sources-newsgroups-1994-01
asciilifeform: related vintage lulz : https://ask.slashdot.org/story/03/07/25/1947231/obtaining-archives-of-usenet
asciilifeform: '...world has one single USENET archive (I hope they have backup floppies!), how can I obtain historical data...'
asciilifeform: ( circa 2003 . )
asciilifeform also found a https://www.theusenetarchive.com but it appears to be payware, and possible scamola.
asciilifeform: at any rate i cannot currently be arsed to paypal to find out,.
asciilifeform: who wants to be the hero, to confiscate usenet fossils from the heathens?
mircea_popescu: traditionally, whosoever first gives a shit.
asciilifeform: probably asciilifeform gives the most shit. but also has the smallest free hand atm.
mircea_popescu will make no secret he has ~no respect for the "pistols" of such grandfathers. if they sucked less they might have solved say... ONE of the problems we're stuck with.
mircea_popescu: fuck 'em, they have no claim to perpetuation whatsoever.
asciilifeform: eh you were there. the fatal weakness, these folx could not make hardware.
mircea_popescu: the fatal weakness, those folks just wanted to get along. ☟︎
asciilifeform: not really
mircea_popescu: had no hardware, let alone make.
asciilifeform: dunno what set you hung with. certainly not 'just want'.
mircea_popescu: orly. proof ?
asciilifeform: proof is in the archive.
mircea_popescu: one item. anything.
mircea_popescu: and no, not "SAID". did.
asciilifeform: al schwartz's material for 1.
mircea_popescu: al schwartz just wanted to get along.
asciilifeform: [insert the benzyl thread here]
mircea_popescu: !#s benzyl
a111: 5 results for "benzyl", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=benzyl
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2014-08-22#804648 ? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-08-22 03:06 peterl: no, a less traditional synthesis, from benzyl bromide, methylamine and acetaldehyde
asciilifeform: nope
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-11#1501551 << it ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-11 17:52 asciilifeform: he even had the benzyl crystals mostly grown.
mircea_popescu: is this a "mostly did" ?
mircea_popescu: what of this supposed work can i rely on today ? is there a schematic ? is therew anything ? HOW do you distinguish between this and henninger "publishing" ?
asciilifeform: d00d laid out how to do the eotvos thing. recipe still on his www last i saw.
mircea_popescu: so not actually on usenet.
asciilifeform: originally there.
mircea_popescu: i will grudgingly grant this much, and very grudgingly at that.
asciilifeform: ( received , incidentally, much the same way as mpoe-pr was on tardstalk. )
mircea_popescu: because the population just wanted to get along ?
asciilifeform: schwartz played ~same role, (unpaid..) on sci.chem, sci.physics, a few elsewheres.
mircea_popescu: i will agree with you that yes, man trying and failing is still man ; but you will i hope agree with me that man failing while still man nevertheless still loser.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: actually rather than 'get along', contained blithering 'einstein was a lyin' j000' crackpots, aetherists, perpetuum-mobilists, etc.
mircea_popescu: there's two components to "grandfather" : a) man ; b) successful.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this is getting along.
mircea_popescu: improductive flailing != productive nonsense.
mircea_popescu: i'm sorry.
mircea_popescu: improductive flailing === productive nonsense.
asciilifeform: i haven't visited the productive non-nonsense planet yet, so cannot further comment
mircea_popescu: leaves open the question of "why is the history of improductive planet, be it the left can of soda or right can of soda, worthy of preservation".
mircea_popescu: don't tell me that "if oyu don't read how imbecile smart doods trying to get along tried to get along, you won't ever guess on your own and may repeat the same mistakes".
asciilifeform: vintage usenet ( in fact the 'yarchive' d00d -- no relation to ycombinator tards et al , see l0gz - has good chunk ) contained folx who actually spent good chunk of 20th c doing things such as organic synthesis of novel 'better living through chemistries', overseeing petro exploration, various productive pursuits of now-mostly-evaporated civilization
mircea_popescu: having no intention of getting along is a perfect armor against repeating usenet ; or the internet ; or anything else.
asciilifeform: as such it is worth imho whole modern net put together, gram for gram
mircea_popescu: i feel no continuity with these folks, myself.
asciilifeform: well i do.
mircea_popescu: alrighty then! when you have a moment, elighten and instruct.
mircea_popescu: it's not that i WANT to think that usg == usg, whether usg.yuppies or usg.countercultures.
mircea_popescu: it's that sadly, i fail to find the difference.
asciilifeform: http://yarchive.net .
mircea_popescu: was looking for something to read anyway.
asciilifeform: if i had to pick b/w keeping my library, and keeping yarchive, on trip to mars -- would pick yarchive.
asciilifeform: ( contains, incidentally, schwartz also )
asciilifeform: it ain't a full bore 'sinners and saints' usenet snapshot, but certain fella's 'best of'. i have my own, that really cries to be organized and similarly cleaned, posted.
asciilifeform: probably buncha other folx -- have similar.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=yarchive << see also past threads.
asciilifeform: ^ has some favourites of asciilifeform's.
mircea_popescu: ok, here's a brief journal. tried to pick a topic, which is a problem i don't have a solution for. heuristically picked "computers", inspected some entries, found them to be mostly minutia a la http://yarchive.net/comp/linux/disable_irq_races.html or else very brief and unstructured accidental likbezn a la http://yarchive.net/comp/caches.html
mircea_popescu: so we try our luck with food, a topic on which we happen to know a lot more than most. http://yarchive.net/food/aged_beef.html is factually incorrect on the first meaty claim -- marbledness is poor man's tenderness. i have, like anyone rich enough has had, extremely tender cuts of beef with no fat marbling whatsoever. they sell here for ~50 bux a 28 oz, that's what http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-24#1689656 was. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-24 03:29 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not only do i own vintage german cars (which, btw, were made for de market and imported here, not made in fucking us/brazil like the rest of the toyotas with bavarian paintjobs), but I WILL HAVE YOU KNOW i just ingested a 28 oz porterhouse steak!
mircea_popescu: now, aging meat is a respectable topic. problem is the subject is written in french, and these fellows evidently never read any.
mircea_popescu approves of the cast iron seasoning words.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform where do i find substance in this ?
mircea_popescu: "The attic of the restaurant was loaded with about 100 lbs of boric acid during the remodel."" << yeah, de armond dood clearly knows his way around a restaurant operaiton.
phf: mircea_popescu: what's there to read in french on meat aging? asking for practical purposes
phf: relatedly to the other conversation, though i grew up on the same yarns as asciilifeform, i start to think that usenet was the original reddit, just the guys were smarter, perhaps even grownups. i posted on reddit at some point, and i want to believe that my comments were carefully constructed and detailed, but there were many reasons that we ☟︎
phf: 've discussed to death here, why doing so was a waste of time. i suspect that usenet was similar. you have a handful of insightful posts lost in the noise
mircea_popescu: phf as far as moderns are concerned, y-m le bourdonnec, say, or else hugo desnoyer. probably can even buy a chunk. otherwise, as far as the anthropology / history an' generally scholarship of the matter is concerned, there's late medieval / early modern french, spanish sources, even a bit of latin, but i've not them assembled and at the ready.
mircea_popescu: what's your pleasure ?
mircea_popescu: phf the noise isn't even the subject. there's two kinds of girls : those who go, and those who do not go. this is established afore the fact, and NOT at the party. now, a party with the later, no matter how timed or where established, be it "night of the demons"-like or simply a rural "community center" church dance, will NOT yield fucking. period and full fucking stop and jack slow down and etcetera.
mircea_popescu: this is the substantive difference here, that i dun care how fucking smart-casual you were dressed or how debate-club-approvably your wit flew. wrong party === losers and no further discussion is useful or necessary.
asciilifeform: as i see it, mircea_popescu had the verdict quite ready before reading any.
mircea_popescu: by the fruits you will have the verdict ready before inspecting any leaves.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-27#1690214 << tumourigenesis circa 1993 ( 'eternal september' ) and mostly dead by 2000. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-27 02:46 phf: relatedly to the other conversation, though i grew up on the same yarns as asciilifeform, i start to think that usenet was the original reddit, just the guys were smarter, perhaps even grownups. i posted on reddit at some point, and i want to believe that my comments were carefully constructed and detailed, but there were many reasons that we
asciilifeform: the interesting folx were 'practitioners' -- folx with actual meatspace professions -- rather than today's 'talkers'.
mircea_popescu: the overarching point here is that just as never an ought came from an is ; just so no coward managed to reason his way into valor.
asciilifeform: and the valor of afghan sums to 0
asciilifeform: and ditto of ru mob et al. ☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: cultural zero.
mircea_popescu: oh it is ?
asciilifeform: though i disagree that cowardice is inevitable 'professional disease' of the thinking man. illusion, comes from the fact of bipedal turds masquerading as thinking folx.
mircea_popescu: now, had i believed any of those summed to 1, i'd say nothing but simply be there. the fuck i care, it takes me six weeks to learn a language, any language, and i know no women who'd dare "opine" on the move.
mircea_popescu: BUT! are those two zeros the same zero ?
asciilifeform: become spartan, speak with sword..
mircea_popescu: cuz i suspect they may be sortable, in which case your argument's in trouble.
mircea_popescu: in any case -- i am entirely convinced the two are orthogonal. there's no more reason in intelligence to be cowardly than there's reason in rain to wet the bed.
asciilifeform does not disagree with above
mircea_popescu: very similar items, really. inborn, to some degree, can be cultivated, which helps, dependingly, and so on.
mircea_popescu: neither very happy with the inept "relativism" of sophistry, at that.
asciilifeform: where was the old mircea_popescu piece, re culture forming from struggle b/w the sane and 9,001 types of subtly mad
mircea_popescu: this sounds familiar.
mircea_popescu: meanwhile in blackening of viands, http://68.media.tumblr.com/9d8d721ad4453425b61baff6d247f02d/tumblr_o6usqnA9B11rq93veo1_500.gif
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/07/trump-makes-small-cut-to-military-healthcare-spending-and-makes-jeff-sessions-great-again/ << Qntra - Trump Makes Small Cut To Military Healthcare Spending And Makes Jeff Sessions Great Again
BingoBoingo: ^ Dos historias, un titulo
mircea_popescu: jeff bezos and the amazington host.
BingoBoingo: lol
BingoBoingo: The "amazington host" sounds liek a grand way to refer to a gathering of redditards.
mircea_popescu: just about
mircea_popescu: a great gay way.
BingoBoingo: A host of amazingtons blocks you path. [fuck][marry][kill with fire]
mircea_popescu: lol
BingoBoingo: A lesser lol for the anal's beads http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/07/26/senate-democrats-delay-witness-from-testifying-against-fusion-gps/
ben_vulpes: !!rate mimisbrunnr 1 a bot of mine
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/GTYPE/?raw=true
ben_vulpes: !!v BB907D8F4402D2CA377D7BD22CEE31DE112100F6C197A433AA9EEE7F7D88669F
deedbot: ben_vulpes rated mimisbrunnr 1 << a bot of mine
ben_vulpes: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2017-6-12#127336 << done
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2017-06-12 18:05 phf: ben_vulpes: could you possibly add timestamp (hh:mm:ss, say) to your div.line's. maybe as data-ts="..." or perhaps as a div.nick title?
ben_vulpes: http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema?d=2017-7-26#171249 << done ☝︎
mimisbrunnr: Logged on 2017-07-26 17:25 asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: imho the scheme currently in use by phf is The Right Thing
ben_vulpes: even preserved what little backwards compatibility needed preserving with some feeelthy htmlz
ben_vulpes: and ty mircea_popescu for kicking my ass to do it ☟︎
ben_vulpes: obvs works in #eulora, #trilema-mod6 etc
asciilifeform: in other noose, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-26#1607654 passed. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-26 19:26 asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: from same circus, u.s. senate is proposing to ban mr.t from revering obummer's 'ru sanctions and They Stole Election' decrees
asciilifeform: ( the veto-overriding ritual is still upcoming iirc ) ☟︎
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/07/bitcoin-network-mining-difficulty-continues-climb-up-6-92-percent-to-new-all-time-high/ << Qntra - Bitcoin Network Mining Difficulty Continues Climb, Up ~6.92 Percent To New All Time High
asciilifeform: in other lulz, https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=GCC-RDRAND-CVE
asciilifeform: 'RDRAND/RDSEED instructions for pulling random number generators on modern CPUs may have not been as random as desired when using GCC. '
asciilifeform: 'The issue was fixed in GCC back in March but only disclosed today on the oss-sec list as CVE-2017-11671. '
asciilifeform: 'responsible disclosure' shitsackery. ☟︎
mod6: howdy!
mircea_popescu: heya
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-27#1690261 << took very little kicking. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-27 06:40 ben_vulpes: and ty mircea_popescu for kicking my ass to do it
mircea_popescu: hardly worth teh mention.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-27#1690265 << lame duck senate. it'll last for six months. trump is 4evah. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-27 12:45 asciilifeform: ( the veto-overriding ritual is still upcoming iirc )
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-27#1690270 << heh. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-27 13:39 asciilifeform: 'responsible disclosure' shitsackery.
mircea_popescu: "Orbem iam totum victor Romanus habebat, qua mare, qua terrae, qua sidus currit utrumque; nec satiatus erat. Gravidis freta pulsa carinis iam peragebantur; si quis sinus abditus ultra, si qua foret tellus, quae fuluum mitteret aurum, hostis erat, fatisque in tristia bella paratis quaerebantur opes." ☟︎
asciilifeform: where didja find an unbitrotted ocr of that
mircea_popescu: mah own files.
asciilifeform: chix handkeyed didntthey.
asciilifeform: neat.
mircea_popescu: perhaps :D
asciilifeform: 1337w4r3z.
mircea_popescu: hm.
mircea_popescu: !~google "Orbem iam totum victor"
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: '' Orbem iam totum victor Romanus habebat, qua' collaborative text ...: <http://nodictionaries.com/text-word-note/3569387-orbem-iam-totum-uictor-romanus-habebat-qua>; Satyricon Satyricon Index (Latin) (Latin) - Sacred Texts: <http://www.sacred-texts.com/cla/petro/satyrlat/index.htm>
mircea_popescu: http://www.thelatinlibrary.com/petronius1.html << there, apparently it exists online as well. saves me the trouble to publish it.
mircea_popescu hasn't in much depth checked, but the quoted part at least is correct.
asciilifeform: oh neat
mircea_popescu: "hey, pudet effari perituraque prodere fata, persarum ritu male pubescentibus annis". ☟︎
mircea_popescu: (for the innocent : fata denotes fate in that text, and male evil. but at the time c. petronius wrote he was doubltess fully aware of the vulgar latin tendency towards what yielded romanian fata (girl), even if very unlikely unaware of the eventual meaning of "male". yet, we can read a vernacular relation there between male/female doubling agency/fate on the distal plane. THIS is what literary genius is all about, ulterior me
mircea_popescu: aning.)
mircea_popescu: (and yes, latin philosophy of the time was 60% by mass "women, unbridled, will doom the republic". hence ~porcius~ cato for instance.)
asciilifeform: meanwhile in sunny monkeystan, http://archive.is/AxHUh : 'Russian National And Bitcoin Exchange Charged In 21-Count Indictment For Operating Alleged International Money Laundering Scheme And Allegedly Laundering Funds From Hack Of Mt. Gox'
asciilifeform: 'Homeland Security Investigations is strongly committed to tracking down criminals who seek to strike at the foundations of global financial security through complex money laundering schemes' didjaknow.
mircea_popescu: hurr.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-27#1690280 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-27 17:05 mircea_popescu: "Orbem iam totum victor Romanus habebat, qua mare, qua terrae, qua sidus currit utrumque; nec satiatus erat. Gravidis freta pulsa carinis iam peragebantur; si quis sinus abditus ultra, si qua foret tellus, quae fuluum mitteret aurum, hostis erat, fatisque in tristia bella paratis quaerebantur opes."
asciilifeform: gotta wonder, are the ru folx actually dumb enough to regularly visit natostans ( greece in above, spain earlier ) or dragged there 1st and parallelconstructed.
mircea_popescu: pretty sure this guy lived in the eastern mediterranean.
asciilifeform: as good as usa.
mircea_popescu: nah, nice climate, pleasant women.
asciilifeform: for gassing, i mean.
mircea_popescu: eh, unless you're willing to shoot usg agents on shight / impale the captured etc, ~everywhere is same.
asciilifeform: not quite everywhere. afaik 0 successful usg kidnappings in ru to date.
mircea_popescu: you specifically care which idiot is involved ?
asciilifeform: in this case yes
mircea_popescu: why ?
asciilifeform: d00d would be a free man if he sat in moscow.
mircea_popescu: when exactly did russian citizens in russia become free men ?
asciilifeform: 1991 or so
mircea_popescu: i musta missed this point. esp given the novel discovery that http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-27#1690227 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-27 02:58 asciilifeform: and ditto of ru mob et al.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i thought the ru mob had 0 cultural value.
asciilifeform: 0 from my telescope
asciilifeform: but specifically to subj d00d , plenty value.
mircea_popescu: your telescope runs on virtual basic it'd seem.
asciilifeform: wassat
mircea_popescu: did you not say the 1990s never happened ?
asciilifeform: waiwat
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-27#1690227 << ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-27 02:58 asciilifeform: and ditto of ru mob et al.
asciilifeform: what's the cultural value of a fire ?
asciilifeform: i can see the argument 'some things needed burnin'
mircea_popescu: nevermind the fire. the cultural value of "d00d would be a free man if he sat in moscow." is ~1.
mircea_popescu: if that's not the entirety of culture, then it's not missing much.
asciilifeform: supposing it is so. ( it is far from my africa, and can't say for sure. perhaps phf will comment. )
mircea_popescu: well, you'll have to pick one which you believe, and stick to it.
asciilifeform: i see where mircea_popescu was going tho.
mircea_popescu: but be that as it may, for the brief interlude in question. there's no substantial difference today.
asciilifeform: i do know that ~0 'hacking' prosecutions in ru.
asciilifeform: and 0 extraditions to anywhere, for whatever reason.
mircea_popescu: lol really ?
asciilifeform: nao maybe they feed'em into woodchippers locally, and quietly, i have nfi.
asciilifeform: but 0 usg-style preet process.
mircea_popescu: lol.
mircea_popescu: i thought you read russian ?
asciilifeform: have counterexample?
asciilifeform: i dun read every single local rag of every nowhere district in all of ru. so conceivable that i missed one.
mircea_popescu: so what is teh isc ?
mircea_popescu: who was sergei mikhailov ?
mircea_popescu: moreover, what did the preet do before being canned, quite a la yezhov ?
asciilifeform: what about mihailov
mircea_popescu: exact preet. spent a while "prosecuting" "cybercrime", then got prosecuted in turn.
asciilifeform: thinking of the kaspersky betrayal case ?
asciilifeform: that ain't a 'hacking trial
mircea_popescu: not what was said.
asciilifeform: expand then plox
mircea_popescu: your claim was "0 usg-style preet process", to which i showed 100% preet process : 1. that indeed there was a preet ; and that indeed he was preet'ed.
asciilifeform: preet prosecuted free men for doing free man things.
mircea_popescu: it's your job to now convince me the "centre for information securityt" of the fsb prosecuted no "hacker" at any point during its decade long tenure.
mircea_popescu: rigth.
asciilifeform: i dun have the desired exhaustive proof of absence.
mircea_popescu: not a matter of proof of absence ; the structure is there quite plainly. if you can be bothered to dig you'll find the rest.
mircea_popescu: the notion that somehow russia is a free country dun stand, or else you know, we'd just move there.
asciilifeform: all i got is the observation that no ransomware writer who targets anglotards seems to feel in the slightest bit of danger in ru.
mircea_popescu: good for them...
asciilifeform: 'free country' may be contradiction in terms.
mircea_popescu: by this measure, neither do they "seem to feel" in danger in north korea.
asciilifeform: i'm a little surprised that northkr has not attempted cultivating reputation as tmsr-friendly
mircea_popescu: come to think about it, whether someone is publicly shitting hsi pants every change he gets (aka, http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-27#1690153 ) versus the other categorical alternative, "doesn't seem to feel in the slightest bit in danger" would rather predict us citizenship than anything else. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-27 02:19 mircea_popescu: the fatal weakness, those folks just wanted to get along.
mircea_popescu: ameritards pants are always freshly shat. everyone else's - not.
mircea_popescu: bout as far as that goes.
asciilifeform: dunno, afaik opposite, every d00d arrested in usa for anything, from pickpocket to seller of nsa key, seems very surprised
trinque snarfed an archive of www.thelatinlibrary.com a while back
mircea_popescu: good idea.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-27#1690293 << apparently the best english version of this is a r allinson's "I blush to speak, I tremble to recite our Persian manners and our curse of Fate!". ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-27 17:15 mircea_popescu: "hey, pudet effari perituraque prodere fata, persarum ritu male pubescentibus annis".
mircea_popescu: it's not very good.
mircea_popescu: I blush to tell, I tremble to recite our Persian childhood and its fated plight! or something at the very least. the cogent points is that one tempts the fates at his peril with a recount of how changing the republic for a satrapy contained in itself its future blessings such as they were.
phf: "Like you, I also wanted to study the TeX code. After all, it was written by an eminent computer scientist, and, for a large piece of software, it is remarkably free of bugs. It looked like something significant could be learned. But, I gave up after a while. Mostly because the code is full of clever tricks to pack data into memory locations to save space. This made sense 30 years ago, but not so much today, and it makes the code very difficult to read
phf: (for me, anyway). There is a system called JavaTex, by Tim Murphy, which might be a bit easier to read, maybe. But I ran out of time. – bubba"
mircea_popescu: wait, knuth literate-programmed all his way into pointer magic etc ?
phf: i suspect it's more about the choice of data structures. for one there are no allocs (very much in the spirit of ascii's ada explorations), so he probably has a lot of mempools, some byte compression and possibly bit twiddling. i've not read the second book yet, because i still haven't compiled the damn thing outside of the reservation
phf: "This TEX implementation conforms to the rules of the Pascal User Manual published by Jensen and Wirth in 1975, except where system-dependent code is necessary to make a useful system program, and except in another respect where such conformity would unnecessarily obscure the meaning and clutter up the code"
asciilifeform: phf: ftr i'm going for the exact opposite of this liquishit.
phf: what liquishit?
asciilifeform: bit twiddles to save 1 byte here and there etc
phf: i don't know if that's the case, that's just my guess. but you are doing fixed size allocations though, and we had threads about it
phf: who knows what "bubba" actually means
asciilifeform: all sane programs do fixed allocation.
phf: fwiw the dynamic around tex is fascinating. here's very much a literate artifact of high discipline. every piece is a carefully documented literate program, custom tooling that enforces the conventions, "I have also spent thousands of hours trying to ensure that the systems produce essentially identical results on all computers. I strongly believe that an unchanging system has great value, even though it is axiomatic that any complex system can be impr
phf: oved." etc. etc. last tex release (apart from bug fixes) is version 3 in 1990. you'd think(c)(r), but the reality is that layers and layers of cancer are grown on top of it, and when there's a discussion it is in terms of original values, but when it comes to details its "use this lua pdf unicode thing which comes as part of a 5GB package"
phf: i can envision a future where some TMSR SYSTEM package weights at 100GB but at its core is "p.vpatch" that is used exclusively through "vada2rust" translation system
mircea_popescu: phf i wasn't aware he ever did bit twiddles. my sparse reading of bits and pieces never showed me any.
mircea_popescu: it is, for the record, NOT axiomatic, or even true, that any large system can be improved.
mircea_popescu: all systems designed through inductive means can always be improved -- through the removal of the inductive parts and their replacement with deductive equivalents. that's all.
asciilifeform: phf: i can also imagine future where cannibals wear my stuffed skin, what of it ☟︎
mircea_popescu: moreover, i can envisage a future where the clean html of the republic is viewed through "browser2iphonekek" as javascript-whatever.
mircea_popescu: that future is now, and just as soon as i fuck one i'll care.
mircea_popescu avvers that had he run into remarkable crapola re knuth he'd have thrown a louder than usual and as public as usual hissy fit.
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2017/again-with-the-money-laundering-bullshit/ << Trilema - Again with the "money laundering" bullshit.
asciilifeform: trilema down?!
asciilifeform: nm worx
shinohai: worx for me
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what's an avvers
mircea_popescu: an aver with a sticky v.
asciilifeform: lolk
mircea_popescu: meanwhile art teh beach, http://68.media.tumblr.com/e91d24998750471eb2d25bb34ea4c619/tumblr_oamax69J9W1u4jyyvo1_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: !!up palatine
deedbot: palatine voiced for 30 minutes.
palatine: hello
mircea_popescu: hi.
palatine: feels strange talking to you after all reading i did, sorta speaking with a character out of a book
mircea_popescu: ha!
mircea_popescu: what've you been reading then ?
palatine: trilema and a bit of the logs
mircea_popescu: cool.
palatine: beginning to figure it out, almost ;)
mircea_popescu: alrighty then
palatine: not being a tech person i have some trouble with the WoT thing
mircea_popescu: what person are you ?
palatine: i knew a hard question was on my way
mircea_popescu: lol but i mean, "i'm not a tech person because i am an ? person" ?
palatine: i'm a lawyer by profession and trying to escape the barn in general ☟︎
mircea_popescu: ah. i suppose to keep to terminology, "i'm a scholar person".
palatine: agreed then
mircea_popescu is not much of a tech person either.
palatine: yes, surprised me bit when i found out
mircea_popescu: anyway, as a lawyer you absoluitely wish to bake pgp into every aspect of your practice. don't have any customer email you plaintext.
mircea_popescu: that way you get actual, as opposed to theoretical, attorney-client priviledge.
palatine: yes, that would be fine even if a somewhat hard on the practical level
palatine: people being totally non tech people either
mircea_popescu: well, people are also totally non-legal minds either, kinda why they come to you.
mircea_popescu: at least in my experience, 60% or so of independent practice lawyer's work is educating people in his office. sort-of private schooling.
mircea_popescu: or do you work in a corp law dept ?
palatine: nope
palatine: your remark is spot on, by the way
mircea_popescu: :p
palatine: fact is, the place i live the law is a joke
palatine: not sure you can call it law practice anymore
mircea_popescu: do you practice italian law ?
palatine: yes
mircea_popescu: hasn't been too serious for a long while now huh.
palatine: yes
palatine: crumbling at an faster pace lately anyhow
mircea_popescu: well if it makes you feel any better, the us is rapidly catching up.
palatine: haha
palatine: i'm very happy to have found out this place
mircea_popescu: cheers.
palatine: i got a question for you, if you don't mind answering, did you plan trilema as a literary opus by the very start or sorta did it grew out on its own way?
mircea_popescu: yes.
palatine: which one?
mircea_popescu: :)
palatine: lol
mircea_popescu: both. the distinction only exists in a certain (and false) view of teh world. otherwise, to plan it as a literary opus correctly IS for it to grow on its own wya.
palatine: true
mircea_popescu: generally "to plan" is used as a view towards results. this utterly is not what planning is. planning is all about the construction of processes.
mircea_popescu: but hey, kids go to school, where http://btcbase.org/log/2017-07-06#1679600 reigns rampant. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-07-06 15:09 mircea_popescu: which is how every god damned kid that was sexually abused through the process of socialist schooling (which is all of them -- education is education, and socialist school is definitionally sexual abuse of all children involved) ends up with the idea that newton sat down TO discover whatever he did (unimportant, really) and THEREFORE he did.
mircea_popescu: so the confusion is born.
palatine: gotta take my time with this one
mircea_popescu: can you read the romanian parts of trilema btw ?
palatine: nope, i nicknamed it the "romanian wall"
mircea_popescu: italian is somewhat mutually inteligible with romanian. but i suppose it also depends what exactly.
palatine: yes, but the meaning is subtle and missing too many words make it a mess
mircea_popescu: myeah.
mircea_popescu: !!up palatine
deedbot: palatine voiced for 30 minutes.
palatine: how was that you picked the Serenissima?
mircea_popescu: well, commercial republic. say, http://btcbase.org/log/2013-08-19#241422 ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2013-08-19 13:24 mircea_popescu: it was the same in 1600s low countries, and in 1100s serene republic.
mircea_popescu: what'd you have picked ?
palatine: nothing else
palatine: it's amazing because when i walk the streets here the San Marco lion is everywhere
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2014-01-14#444413 << also. teh oldest references, as it'd appear. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-01-14 10:51 mircea_popescu: and also my country, teh most serene republic of bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: palatine iirc some greek church also uses it.
palatine: have to check this out
mircea_popescu: see, cause originally, when the venetics were little more than an orcish tribe, they wanted to matter in th world. so they went and stole st marcus remains from alexandria.
palatine: i read a bit on the origins of the republic, i found striking similarities with our current situation
mircea_popescu: kinda how it goes.
palatine: little non-easily reacheable and defendable islands are like bitcoin
mircea_popescu: !!up enzio
deedbot: enzio voiced for 30 minutes.
palatine: first time panic, totally understand ;)
mircea_popescu: and in other shy to show face beauties, http://68.media.tumblr.com/c31bb64a67ec4619ef27018e4e7490bd/tumblr_obcnzxyJkW1voo3cao1_1280.jpg
shinohai: "In case of emergency. wrap arms firmly around whore and use as a flotation device"