Chillum: mircea_popescu: that is an interesting idea. How does bidding work? People just send their bid, then what happens when someone outbids them
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095494 << imo not because incremental, but because poorly managed.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 20:18:35; ascii_field: -because- incremental.
Chillum: it could sell specific time slots and the bidding could happen right up until it is chosen, then the losing bids sent back
trinque: mircea_popescu: indeed; that job was a shitshow
mircea_popescu: Chillum specify bitmap and time interval. goes to highest bidder. like adsense
Chillum: but you would need a deposit to make sure bids are real
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> ... actually being a woman, especially if young, and very very easy is what offers the best chance of survival. << 'how to avoid drowning at sea?' 'be water'
mircea_popescu: yeah.
mircea_popescu: exactly alf.
asciilifeform: or the old 'choose your parents carefully' (TM)
Chillum: so refund bids to losers may work, or they could apply the credit to another ad
mircea_popescu: not sure that'd help. choice problem
mircea_popescu: the sorts of parents you'd choose are the problem in the firsat place.
mircea_popescu: if you could be trusted to choose parents correctly doom wouldn't be upon us.
mircea_popescu: Chillum just have people keep an acct with you.
mircea_popescu: "if you don't have > 1 btc with me you can't bid at all, fu."
Chillum: I see
mircea_popescu: you ever see that film, wtf was it called. "GET SOME FUCKING MONEY"
Chillum: one of the great things about bitcoin services is that accounts are not strictly needed. For example you could send a request to a service without any authentication, it could respond with a price and address
Chillum: pay it and get your service
Chillum: I know. You accept bids from everyone at any time. You get the amount of ad-time relative to the size of what you paid to the whole
Chillum: that way no need for accounts or refunds
mircea_popescu: Chillum this is what i said.
trinque: and my ad runs for 3 seconds, lol
mircea_popescu: "specify bitmap and time interval. goes to highest bidder."
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> ... dude, why so disdainful ? if you don't trust people you don't know on the basis of what they write << because i can see the hallmarks of educated mendacity. the man, whoever he is, knows that i know the history. and pretends otherwise, and that he has some sort of 'lesson' for old ignorant me. i know the type, they infest (or once did) my comments section.
mircea_popescu: i guess it's not what i said. ITS WHAT I MEANT!
mircea_popescu: like bitbet does it.
Chillum: you said people would have an account, goes to the highest bidder
Chillum: I said no account everyone gets some ad time
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform methinks you might be seeing too much in there.
Chillum: ah what you meant...
mircea_popescu: Chillum dwim damnit!
Chillum: glad I was able to help you put your ideas into works
mircea_popescu: :)
Chillum: that could work
mircea_popescu: i am fortunate in that having been here a while, my ideas are already facts, so i can fall back on that lol.
Chillum: too bad advertising is one of the greatest evils going
mircea_popescu: yeah, too bad.
mircea_popescu: is that a reference to the rape article ?
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> i wonder if it's also actually correct. << it doesn't -get- much more correct.
asciilifeform: i'll sign under every word of it, fwiw.
mircea_popescu: i can still wonder can't i!
asciilifeform: aftermarket web-accessible switches << sold...
asciilifeform: there are several vendors
mircea_popescu: yeah but how much ?
trinque: my end of that thread was that they're all shit
trinque: and "they're all shit" is seen in many other parts of the US economy
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095500 << he gave you a fine example tho. so someone hijacks his idle camera ? whatevs.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 20:19:28; ascii_field: Chillum: not all applications call for security << ?!?!!!!
asciilifeform: at the very least, it becomes a ddos drone
asciilifeform: and we so much need more of these.
mircea_popescu: :)
mircea_popescu: so WE would need his app to security ?
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: problem.
asciilifeform: or, in world of tomorrow - he, to avoid beatings.
mircea_popescu: but if he's forced to enforce your interest
mircea_popescu: what of his freedom!
asciilifeform: i live in the lands of beautiful freedom, where folks throw trash from moving cars etc
asciilifeform: in celebration of it.
mircea_popescu: myeah.
asciilifeform: but in ip-over-gossip net, yes, pwned machine is solely the owner's grief, like his stolen bicycle.
mircea_popescu: which is why that is a better design.
asciilifeform: the only reasonable design.
mircea_popescu: but i wouldn't sign off on him being beaten because tcp/ip sucks.
asciilifeform: old net was gated. gossipnet - likewise gates. we, today - a perverse interregnum.
asciilifeform: *gated
asciilifeform: ad bid board << i had this idea, probably like everybody else
asciilifeform: the fact of the matter appears to be (ben_vulpes and his experiment, etc) that the folks who pay for ads are largely the old cargo cultists and have very little to do with bitcoin, for perfectly logical reasons of it being a bugspray against their species
mircea_popescu: myeah.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: whaack why would nickserv drop an account ? i never heard of this. << They drop registrations after just a few weeks of disuse, because Freenode
mircea_popescu: ianae
asciilifeform is presently wondering whether, if mircea_popescu's prescription 'be young and female' were an actual algorithm that folks could -execute- - how many would
mircea_popescu: probably all those that are really female deep down.
mircea_popescu: ie, the ones that actually give a shit.
asciilifeform: and it isn't as if all the currently existing ones are pets in good homes. e.g, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-05-2014#663930 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 07-05-2014 03:02:32; mircea_popescu: if you have 20 bux spare you'll get a manicure, maybe you find some guy that's not an asshoel.
mircea_popescu: incidentally, it occurs to me : clearly the femspeak for male being "sociopath", ie, one who does not care about the consequences (this is the basis of the rape debate - men will fuck women for a cause, women wish to fuck towards a purpose), and the problem with "women in tech" being the aridity of the field to the femstyle,
asciilifeform: and, also pertinently, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=07-05-2014#663922 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 07-05-2014 03:00:40; mircea_popescu: this is like having a 40 yo chick come to you for dancing lessons and you telling her "missing ingredient is you being 20". why tyvm, mr expert guy!
mircea_popescu: how long before the current processor (that acts from cause) is replaced with a new architecture, more femfriendly ?
mircea_popescu: a processor that looks at what the EFFECTS of a computation would be
mircea_popescu: rather than proceed from an imperative cause towards a computation
mircea_popescu: you know, alligned with the entire irigaray " e = mc^2 is a sexed equation"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu is ahead of the game as usual:
asciilifeform: this -was made-
mircea_popescu: lacan & co efforts to build an alt-physics didn't manage to do much, but mebbe it works in alt-cs?
asciilifeform: it is called 'lazy evaluation' and is sop in the academiplague languages
mircea_popescu: ah i c.
asciilifeform: haskell, ml, the shebang
mircea_popescu: well good for them!
mircea_popescu: all is right with the world then.
asciilifeform: urbit, incidentally.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform incidentally, all the proper females ARE pets in good homes. the remainder are like unemployed "employees" that are not so much unemployed as wilfully *unemployable*.
mircea_popescu: not that admission is likely forthcoming.
asciilifeform: it is a uniquely mind-destroying paradigm, also, because it makes reasoning about actual cost of execution on actual hardware virtually impossible.
mircea_popescu: cost is a figment of the scarcity world.
mircea_popescu: they transcended that.
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: enter the world of abundance!
asciilifeform: next step is 'breatharian diet.'
asciilifeform: i wish them a speedy arrival at this step.
Chillum: "all the proper females ARE pets in good homes"... ever had a wife?
mircea_popescu: are you saying the emperor's naked ?
mircea_popescu: Chillum nope.
mircea_popescu: you married ?
Chillum: well I do, and she is proper and not a pet
asciilifeform: wai wat
mircea_popescu: do you get along with her ?
Chillum: yup
asciilifeform: who, then, is the pet
mircea_popescu: meets my definition of proper pet in good home.,
Chillum: we have 2 cats
Chillum: so getting along with someone makes them a pet? I think you skipped some logical steps there
mircea_popescu: you think the cats are your pets ?!
asciilifeform: Chillum: why do you describe her as 'not a pet' ?
whaack: BingoBoingo: I actually just never got the email that I needed to verify with. Reregistered and I still don't have the email.
mircea_popescu: Chillum likely you just use the term in a particular way i don't.
Chillum: asciilifeform: she contributes to the household, our cats do not
Chillum: possibly
Chillum: never known a cat to help pay the rent
mircea_popescu: a pet doesn't have to be idle.
Chillum: work animals != pets
mircea_popescu: what about hamster with wheel ?
BingoBoingo: <Chillum> asciilifeform: she contributes to the household, our cats do not << Do they neglect their anti-vermin duties?
Chillum: barely aware of its own existence
mircea_popescu: everyone is barely aware of their own existence.
mircea_popescu: that's par for the course.
Chillum: sometime on LSD I am acutely aware
mircea_popescu: so they claim.
Chillum: so I claim
Chillum: though it is well established that nobody can prove their own self awareness
mircea_popescu: so if i feed lsd to a cat it's gonna make a good wife ?
Chillum: if you are desperate enough
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 263450 @ 0.00027756 = 73.1232 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: perhaps this was done, and i am lsd cat
mircea_popescu: methinks your theory may have some holes in it.
Chillum: if she is a pet then so am I
mircea_popescu: good for you. what of it ?
trinque: asciilifeform | perhaps this was done, and i am lsd cat << LOL
Chillum: I suppose your advantage in this debate comes from your failure to define what you think pet means
mircea_popescu: but i did, above.
mircea_popescu: "do you get along with her ?"
asciilifeform: Chillum: a tame creature you keep around because enjoy its company.
Chillum: that is a very wide definition
mircea_popescu: i wouldn't subscribe to alf's definitino.
mircea_popescu: Chillum so it's wide.
Chillum: the thing is
mircea_popescu: it happens to exactly match the earlier female survival discussion.
Chillum: my wife is not tame
Chillum: she is very wild
mircea_popescu: ever showed her this place ?
asciilifeform: then perhaps Chillum is the pet ?
Chillum: mircea_popescu: she would not get it
Chillum: I don't get it
Chillum: I am not tame either. I am insidious
Chillum: I play tame
asciilifeform: my pet is following along this thread.
mircea_popescu: aha. well, ima eat, but brb.
asciilifeform: speaking of eating...
Chillum: on the internet, nobody knows you are a dog
asciilifeform goes to eat things
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 272500 @ 0.00027614 = 75.2482 BTC [-] {4}
whaack: /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER whaack aiufgzrktdck
whaack: /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER whaack aiufgzrktdck
mats: go on
whaack: sry
trinque: lol
Chillum: fail
trinque: ahahahaha
Chillum: good password though
Chillum: did you memorize it?
hanbot: shitty pw. no numbers no nothing.
trinque: hanbot: all I see over here is *******
hanbot: get better passwwords.
Chillum: there are 26 letters and 10 numbers. Number have less entropy
hanbot: letter W has most legs, best password WWWWWWW
trinque: whaack: so I might have a theory on why you can't keep your nicks
Chillum: 10^26 = 1.1447546×10²⁸ enough entropy for a remote service
hanbot: if there's 10^26 bits of entropy in that thing I will eat someone's pet.
Chillum: using numbers only adds entropy when you randomly selecty them from the same set as the letters
whaack: that's not a password
whaack: that's the verification code for my email
Chillum: oh lol
mats: jesus, reading your text makes my face hurt Chillum
Chillum: been so long since I registered
hanbot: ah.
Chillum: well, you could move your face away from me if that helps
whaack: i use word lists for passwords, i have a decent understanding of information theory
Chillum: good to know
Chillum: given that the code in question was a machine generated e-mail verification code I would say you should start eating someones pet
BingoBoingo: mats: Did you sleep yet?
hanbot: is this entropy-logic?
mats: about to
Chillum: though the vowel consonant grouping is a bit suspicious
BingoBoingo: hanbot: Entropy logic is patent GBBG by Google Images of AusieDude and GrumpySpamLady. License available with Founder shares, pls buy...
Chillum: I saw a nice talk about a password creator that created small sentence fragments from very long lists of words. The user could enter the words in any order and with known mispellings and it would still pass. All while making sure you get the requested entropy
Chillum: the idea is that humans can remember more entropy when it is in a story form
Chillum: we can remember concepts at much higher information levels than random strings
trinque: neat concept
whaack: I'm sure you've seen https://xkcd.com/936/
assbot: xkcd: Password Strength ... ( http://bit.ly/1JxAY0J )
Chillum: I thought so
hanbot: BingoBoingo, lol
Chillum: correct horse battery staple
Chillum: the bitcoin brain wallet with a lot of deposits and withdrawls
BingoBoingo: Chillum: Probably could be stronger if you take a sentence from Kritik de Rheinen Vernuft and replace 10 of he words in sentence with diceware determined words.
Chillum: it could be stronger if you asked it for more entropy. It creates the password with the entropy you request
BingoBoingo: Sentence from kritik provides structure to remember words with.
Chillum: I suppose "search space" is more accurate than entropy
Chillum: I see
Chillum: so you could remember more
BingoBoingo: full sentence not typed into box, just the dice words.
BingoBoingo: Sentence can go on for pages i Kritiq so password box would hate you over full sentence.
Chillum: the amount of information someone and relay to a sketch artist about a persons face is in the hundreds of Kb, but our brain has hardware acceleration for faces and we can't normalize the data ourselves
Chillum: any password system with a character limit should die
BingoBoingo: Sure, but do you really want to make poor password checker hash all of that German?
Chillum: It would be neat if we could hack our face detection brain hardware to do something else like we have hacked graphics cards for hashing
BingoBoingo: Graphics cards were never really "hacked for hashing" Bitcoin just came along on the exact time AMD graphics cards came into their own as massively parallel compute devices
Chillum: like a computer shows something similar to a face while monitoring your brainwaves and harvesting your computational data
Chillum: umm long before bitcoin they were hashing passwords with them
BingoBoingo: Sure
Chillum: and it was a hack
Chillum: they had to rewrite the hashing algos to use the available features
BingoBoingo: Hah, a hack is when you use a pck of dragonfly brains in parallel to acelerate the search for good porn.
Chillum: I love how many cheap used GPUs are being sold by miners who got on the bus late
Chillum: makes password hashing cheaper
Chillum: a lot of ebay auctions for top of the line video cards saying "Bought it for bitcoin mining, asics came out"
Chillum: though you roll the dice on used cards
whaack: I'm confused as to why anyone would care about using GPUs to hash passwords
BingoBoingo: whaack: To search for passwords against a lsit of hashes of course
whaack: ah :D
BingoBoingo: whaack: GPUs to password has is the solution when you don't have access to person with password and an anthill
BingoBoingo: http://thebulletin.org/does-going-%E2%80%9C-grid%E2%80%9D-actually-help-climate8191 << I wonder if Tesla is going to market sane NiFe to homeowners or instead going to create the greatest national fire hazard in history. Basement is probably the worst place for a massive battery bank and lithium worst way to do it.
assbot: Does going “off the grid” actually help the climate? | Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists ... ( http://bit.ly/1JxCZKj )
mircea_popescu: Chillum so do you ever pet her ?
Chillum: I don't pet and tell
Chillum: but we are married, you do the math
mircea_popescu: i suppose we could put the string through teh entropy tests... but no, doesn't look like it's 8/8.
mircea_popescu: anyway, re narrative pws : that's how wikileaks managed to lose control of a db, innit.
mircea_popescu: humans are great at telling stories and horrible at telling anything but the same ones.
Chillum: "I went out the door and got my mail" <-- terrible... "If I went to the market I would buy bananas and then go south to the dry cleaner" much better
mircea_popescu: Chillum re face etc : pretty sure future is in wetware.
mircea_popescu: and no, not much better.
Chillum: wetware is an interesting idea but the further we go in technology the less likely it seems to be
mircea_popescu: something off trilema, somewhat better. otherwise... recall that klingon line pw that got got ?
Chillum: I doubt you could guess it
mircea_popescu: how do you reason ?
mircea_popescu: well i don't hack pws, so that's a safe bet.
Chillum: I do
Chillum: by wetware do you mean human brains assisting computers, or do you mean biological computers?
Chillum: early in computer science it was believed that computers were like brains and that with enough resources they could simulate one. As we progress it becomes more and more clear that brains are nothing like a computer
Chillum: and that the best way to simulate a brain with a computer is to simulate atoms, ie not very efficient
mircea_popescu: i mean biological compouters
mircea_popescu: the ancient thread is re dragonflies
Chillum: oh well that is another story
Chillum: bilogocial computers are on the way
mircea_popescu: myeah.
Chillum: probably memory first
mircea_popescu: perhaps.
mircea_popescu: but yeah, brain nothing like computer.
Chillum: Amazon web services just announced cloud machine learning
Chillum: so skynet is basically here
Chillum: it seems skynet is mostly interesting in the status quo
mircea_popescu: "Basement is probably the worst place for a massive battery bank and lithium worst way to do it." << word.
Chillum: I am wracking my brain to think of a good use for machine learning, I like to play with all the new AWS toys
mircea_popescu: ESPECIALLY in shitty vinyl siding and "insulation" concotions on "light" (= cheap wood and glue pressboard) frames.
mircea_popescu: !up SquirtPrincess
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I mean fire's favorite direction is up. That and Lithium batteries have a shit lifetime anyways.
mircea_popescu: yeah you can prolly get some pretty major combustihouse events.
Chillum: lith-ion batteries are electrical, chemical and metal fires
Chillum: you do not want to try to smother them or throw anything on them at all
Chillum: they provide their own oxygen
BingoBoingo imagines NiFe in shitty rusted file cabinets in the shed with the lawnmower is a much better place
Chillum: very toxic fumes too
Chillum: basically just run
mircea_popescu: Chillum im not so sure the aws "machine learning" works much better than sussman's tic tac toe machine
Chillum: it is the same thing they use in house
Chillum: to market to people
Chillum: it has its limits but it find patterns in a way not other computer technology can
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo still, will need a lot.
Chillum: it is really good at recognizing suspicious transactions once it has seen enough good and bad ones
mircea_popescu: Chillum from what i hear it's the same process they use to "detect terrorism" nowadays.
mircea_popescu: not so sure it does anything, but hey.
Chillum: the tech has improved only a little(mostly optimizations) since machine learning was invented
Chillum: but the resources it has are enormous
Chillum: it gives you a score which you take with a grain of salt. It is designed to be better than random, not perfect
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: "ascii_field: the only thing i can promise for the $trillion is: more material for the next fella to work with" << oddly, this sounds exactly like social studies.
mircea_popescu: and you're not even black!
Chillum: say you have sent out 10,000 spams to people and 200 answered. You put all the info about those people into it and who answer and who did not. It can then be given a list of other people with the same kind of information and figure out who is more likely to respond
Chillum: and all with no concept of what the information actually means
Chillum: there are probably less evil applications too
mircea_popescu: your list is too small to work.
Chillum: that depends on how clear the pattern is
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Sure. but even place with indications of value can hold a lot.
Chillum: when it comes to responding to spam you are probably right
mircea_popescu: besides, 2% response rate ? web advertising does a lot of fraud to come up to 0.1-0.3% CTR.
mircea_popescu: that would be 10-20 people in the 10k.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095558 << at this rate he's gonna start work on cardano any day now!☝︎
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 20:29:20; trinque: chart a course towards the smallest of them, and towards selling it as well
Chillum: it was an example
Chillum: the number were chosen for simplicity
mircea_popescu: jus' sayin'.
Chillum: I thought that was obvious
BingoBoingo: Chillum: Lithium batteries are like forest fires. You can try to contain the damage by keeping them from spreading. Also sand is an extinguishing option.
mircea_popescu: does sand do anything even ?
Chillum: BingoBoingo: the sand is mostly about preventing molten metal from flying out. It does not smother it because it has its own oxygen
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: It turns into a crude glass and absorbs heat energy in the course of that. Worthless if on wooden desk, pretty useful if on bare concrete
Chillum: my dad was a fireman so he is always talking about this stuff
mircea_popescu: aha
Chillum: yes it does absorb heat too
Chillum: which contains but does not extinguish
mircea_popescu: phase transition, makes sense.
BingoBoingo wants to acquire firetruck and not sound like an idiot, reads so that when day somes will not seem like complete idiot.
mircea_popescu: hey, you should volunteer
mircea_popescu: i hear they get free sex shows.
Chillum: you just need a reason for the big tank
Chillum: those things are so massive when full of water
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I need to get in far better shape. Volunteers get Illinois "pensions" so very competive.
Chillum: they need to plan their stops
Chillum: some have two steering wheels, on in the front and another in the back for the rear driver
Chillum: rear wheel
mircea_popescu: yup
mircea_popescu: actually so dangerous to drive half full they never do
mircea_popescu: every usage is a full empty.
Chillum: I was 12 when my dad invited me to come along to a fire. When we got there he made me get out fo the truck then pushed a car away from a fire hydrant with the truck
Chillum: he was _NOT_ gentle
Chillum: so cool
Chillum: the parking breaks were on, it moved anyways. lotta smoke
mircea_popescu: srsly, im all for this. no more "park by hydrant" laws, but put those old train pusher things on firetrucks.
mircea_popescu: you park next to one, you take your chances.
BingoBoingo: Both Parents were EMTs at various points in their careers
Chillum: they will either ram your car with their truck, harder than they need to of course
Chillum: or they will break your windows and put the fire hose through your car
Chillum: fire hoses of course pour water out every surface so they don't burn
Chillum: which fills the car
mircea_popescu: tbh, in many european towns it's unheard of to leave brake on when parked.
mircea_popescu: because people WILL NEED TO PUSH YOU AROUND
mircea_popescu: eight billion dints on every car.
Chillum: lol so you get to your parking spot and start search ing the area?
mircea_popescu: yup
mircea_popescu: sometimes find car two streets over.
BingoBoingo: In present vehicle's previous life as rental car parking break cable became welded in engaged position. Mechanic corrected situation with bolt cutters.
Chillum: buttslol - creamy01 - a1b2c3d4 - christ people use stupid passwords
Chillum loves nummy low hanging fruit
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095609 << stalin. don't play coy alf!☝︎
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 20:38:00; ascii_field: trinque: who was korolev's capitalist ?
BingoBoingo more attracted to firetruck as giant toolbox than as firefighting implement. Also water cannon
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo you could just get one of those garden party water cannons
Chillum: lol, the Victoria fire department(different than my dads) got a water canon. First fire they took it out they fired it at a window, missed and knocked down the wall
Chillum: I saw it, so funny
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Nah, I want serious "get off my lawn" power. Also tilling the garden hydraulicly would be pretty sweet.
mircea_popescu: buts
mircea_popescu: i mean nuts.
Chillum: BingoBoingo: I saw a device that automatically sprayed water at birds and deer. Modify it a bit and it will work against humanbs
Chillum: replace hose with water canon]
mircea_popescu: have the pets wear chiffon, even better.
Chillum: nutslol
Chillum: the "buttslol" password is from a lulu lemon show, they sell the spanks that make girls ass look good when they are not
Chillum: s/show/shop/
Chillum: false advertising
Chillum: you take them home, get the spanks off and WTF?!
decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095344 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095345 < note this this is how singapore was built, more or less☝︎☝︎
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:43:08; ascii_field: trinque: the normal paradigm of investment and return fails here
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 19:43:33; ascii_field: because the only approach that i believe to be correct, will result in something tangible only long after we are all dead.
BingoBoingo: Chillum: Edging back garden with peppers handles deer/birds usually. As do the coyotes/feral cats. Getting drunk and pissing in yard handles coyotes.
BingoBoingo: !up propumpkin
mircea_popescu: decimation the guy only died recently.
Chillum: I used to do a bit of deep forest gardening. I would use capsicum liquid all over to keep the deer away
Chillum: also piss everywhere
BingoBoingo: Chillum: This is a rural/Suburban border town. Deer cull very effective here. Now when I lived in Carbondale... Deer raided the garbage dumpsters more than the raccoons did.
Chillum: city deer are nothing like forest deer
BingoBoingo: ;;google SIU Deer attacks
gribble: SIU warns campus about deer attacks - The Daily Illini : News: <http://www.dailyillini.com/news/article_4f40f150-c23e-5ae1-812a-a0ee8beeb873.html>; Three Injured In Deer Attack On SIU's Carbondale Campus | ksdk.com: <http://bit.ly/1brxlYz>; Deer attacking students at SIU - tribunedigital-chicagotribune: <http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2005-06-17/news/0506170326_1_fawning- (1 more message)
Chillum: cities really fuck animals up
BingoBoingo: Chillum: Most of Carbondale IS forest
Chillum: ever seen a seagull out in the wild? They are majestic. The city seagulls are vermin
decimation: mircea_popescu: I would note that singapore exhibits all the signs of burning through their 'stored fuel'
Chillum: BingoBoingo: I see
mircea_popescu: myeah, seems they do.
mircea_popescu: Chillum pets included.
Chillum: they behave a lot differently when they become town scavengers
mircea_popescu: yup.
mircea_popescu: jefferson's only major point.
Chillum: humans too
mircea_popescu: "the city sucks"
Chillum: the manner in which a city treats you is directly related to how savvy you are
mircea_popescu: which... it does. they tell legends of women that could suck a golf ball through a garden hose, but new york regularly sucked the jew riding a camel through the eye of a needle.
Chillum: the eye of the needle was a crowded market in a narrow alley
Chillum: it is a very idiomatic saying
BingoBoingo: Chillum: Center of the University campus there is a forest. with nothing more than dirt trails and occasional bridge. Fastest way to get from one side to the other is traversing the woods. Because of USian automobile-subdivision town planning outside of downtown most residential areas are separated by virgin-ish woods
mircea_popescu: it is.
Chillum: The island I am on has logging everywhere but with a 30 year recovery period. So there are logging roads everywhere that are abondoned for the last 10-29 years
Chillum: it is all new growth but there are so many ways away from people if you pick one at random you won't see anyone
decimation: the thing that struck me as weird about the eu (comparied to the us) was how compact little towns are, and how rural the countryside is
Chillum: you just have to be okay with driving over 1 inch this trees
mircea_popescu: this sounds like a grandiose arrangement Chillum
decimation: in the us it's quite normal for shit to be spread out across the countryside
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095683 << holy shit is this the onion ?!☝︎
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 21:00:17; diametric: http://yro.slashdot.org/story/15/04/10/1541258/florida-teen-charged-with-felony-hacking-for-changing-desktop-wallpaper
Chillum: to forest gardeners love those roads
Chillum: unauthorized access
mircea_popescu: charged with "an offense against a computer system"
mircea_popescu: orly ?
mircea_popescu: friend computer, fuck you.
trinque: hang him!
decimation: heh
Chillum: if he broke into the staff office to change the blackboard it would still be breaking and enetering
Chillum: same thing
mircea_popescu: hardly.
mircea_popescu: for one thing, the computer still works. the broken lock does not.
Chillum: using an admin password to log in and changing nothing would be just as illegal
Chillum: you don;'t have to break anything for breaking and entering charges
mircea_popescu: not discussing the legality. discussing the nonsensicality.
Chillum: well don't expect sense in law
mircea_popescu: i do.
Chillum: well prepare to be regularly disappointed
decimation: it would be interesting to know exactly what they are charging him with
decimation: being as how the journalist is likely retarded
Chillum: decimation: probably unauthorized access
decimation: trespass?
Chillum: it is from some computer law from the 80s or 90s
Chillum: still used today, meant to be a catch all for something too complex to put any thought into
mircea_popescu: aha.
Chillum: capturing a WPA packet legal, cracking password from that packet legal, logging into the network - criminal unauthorized access
trinque: so how about this is a teenage male pulling a prank
Chillum: I would hope that the sentence reflect the seriousness of the crime... 48 hours probation and a stern "Don't do it again!"
trinque: yeah, or just someone smack him and move on
mircea_popescu: they're not allowed to.
Chillum: just like if he snuck into the office at night and changed the blackboard, a silly prank, still illegal, light sentence appropriate
mircea_popescu: Chillum when i was about that age kids got all uppity ran lard all over blackboard.
Chillum: I think defendants should be allowed to permit the offended party to smack them in lue of charges
mircea_popescu: (old style, actual chalk)
mircea_popescu: teacher throw a fit. culprit could never be found.
mircea_popescu: different people.
mircea_popescu: it's in lieu.
Chillum: ah thanks
Chillum: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/lue
assbot: lue - Wiktionary ... ( http://bit.ly/1FuJD5o )
Chillum: a "flame" or a "tuque"
Chillum: not what I meant
Chillum: that is why my spell checker did not warn me
Chillum: at least I did not say "loo"(british for toilet)
Chillum: I am feeling a little hyper today
Chillum: too much coffee
decimation: http://www.pascoclerk.com/ < has no information
assbot: PASCOCLERK.COM - Home ... ( http://bit.ly/1I0P21v )
trinque: florida's public school system is skewed by the number of criminals in the state generally
Apocalyptic: http://rt.com/usa/248657-commerce-restricts-intel-china/
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1I0Pkpc )
decimation: for one thing, I doubt he's being charged for a felony as a juvenile
decimation: Pasco County Clerk Dr. O'Neil holds a Doctorate in Philosophy in Applied Management and Decision Sciences, and is a Certified Public Manager,
trinque: holy shit decision sciences.
decimation: heh
trinque: guy's a decider
decimation: she's a woman, her mug is plastered on the webpage
trinque: man, that's a smile headed for mediocre state bureaucracy someday
decimation: !up zooko
zooko: Oh hey, thanks.
mircea_popescu: a...what
zooko: I discovered this channel because of http://vixra.org/pdf/1504.0072v2.pdf
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1FuMTOg )
mircea_popescu: ahahaha wut
mircea_popescu: teaches me to bitch at dwarves for their dubious tech choices.
mircea_popescu: speaking of which yo funks! can i rewad that yet ?
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> ... oddly, this sounds exactly like social studies. << astronomy/astrology. note how useful -legit- astronomy was for most of its history.
mircea_popescu: heh.
mircea_popescu: very. VERY.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ... stalin << aha, who else
decimation: asciilifeform: by "nobody solves problems at google" I assume you mean in the "from first principles" sense?
mircea_popescu: its not altogether clear what all happens at google.
mircea_popescu: on one hand, their patent inability to come up with anything worth the mention since adwords would be concerning. on the other hand, naggum's observation that you wouldn't know smarter than you if it hit you on the head holds a lot of water.
mircea_popescu: !up Cummerbund
decimation: I suspect what happens at google: many people write and re-write the same bits of software
Cummerbund: In three different stacks
mircea_popescu: dude... somewhere there must be a lawyer who legally changed his name to
mircea_popescu: Best Lawyers von Court
decimation: heh
mircea_popescu: Cummerbund who're you ?
decimation: are you from the uk?
Cummerbund: William Dunne, I embarrassed myself here previously.
Cummerbund: Yes
mircea_popescu: o i c.
decimation: it's a bit late there isn't it?
Cummerbund: Yes, I typically work Australian hours
Chillum: it is not hard to embarrass yourself here, everyone here is always right
Chillum: it has happened to me several times
Cummerbund: It was more naivety before learning what needs to be learned, so rightly I was embarrassed (As opposed to just wrong)
whaack: I interned at Google in NYC
decimation: whaack: did you write in go?
whaack: Nope
mircea_popescu: malbolge ?
asciilifeform: decimation: i did not say that nobody solves problems at 'google.' merely that no one is hired to 'solve problem.' rather, folks are hired as fungible meat robots.
whaack: Googlified javascript
decimation: asciilifeform: right, meat robot is given perimeter in which to work
asciilifeform: more to the point, anyone hired with a public advertisement in reference to particular programming languages is hired as meatrobot
asciilifeform: regardless of the pay
whaack: (It's javascript with static type checking)
asciilifeform: 'hired to solve problem' means that you are theoretically free to do it with a computer made of trained squirrels pushing trinary equations, so long as this fits the constraints set by the client.
decimation: asciilifeform: by that definition, nearly everybody working 'in tech' today is a slave
asciilifeform: decimation: it is all a matter of what constraints you are willing to work in
asciilifeform: see last paragraph of http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3181075346296330@naggum.net.html for instance.
assbot: Re: On comparing apples and oranges (was: Q: on hashes and counting) - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1PuT8UV )
decimation: asciilifeform: what fascinates me is the fact that even the higher management who is nominally 'free' find themselves enslaves to apple's paradigm (for example, making iphone clones)
asciilifeform: 'Using such inferior languages is like asking a chef who could have done wonders with any kind of raw materials, to use a dirty kitchen, a broken refrigerator with food that is about to die a second time, broken tools, and brownish tap water that tasted of swamp land. His first task would be to clean up the place. Creating food in there would be the furthest from his mind. That's how I feel about Perl and C++. I prefer to
asciilifeform: call it "good taste", not "tunnel vision".'
asciilifeform: decimation: the brass are among the least-free
asciilifeform: decimation: they answer to the lizards.
asciilifeform: or - worse - to the chump market.
decimation: well, to be clear, the chump market as represented by wall street fund managers
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ehg for all you know working at google is essentially having to report on this private irc server twice a week
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have (or rather had) a mole there.
mircea_popescu: i meant meta-google
mircea_popescu gets last chuckle.
asciilifeform: meta-google - aha.
decimation: yeah who are the lizards who run google?
mircea_popescu: but srsly, i can't for the life of me imagine a different way to run a tech corp these days.
asciilifeform: (consists, naturally, of a miniature google circa 2001 preserved in amber)
mircea_popescu: totally ruined for "VC" bs.
mircea_popescu: (vc here means videoconf)
mircea_popescu: funkenstein_ yo.
mircea_popescu: !up funkenstein_
asciilifeform: eh, video is not the innermost circle of hell
funkenstein_: yo :)
decimation: funkenstein_: congrats on getting groupies
mircea_popescu: so when do i get to read your pdf ?
funkenstein_: haha
funkenstein_: http://frass.woodcoin.org/the-majority-is-enough/
assbot: “The Majority is Enough” | Free your Frass ... ( http://bit.ly/1PuUaQP )
mircea_popescu: aha!
funkenstein_: much hullabaloo over not much content
funkenstein_: but hey i learned .. thanks ::)
mircea_popescu: usually how it goes.
funkenstein_: since vixra comes up again here's one of the other great things you can find there
funkenstein_: http://vixra.org/pdf/1502.0039v1.pdf
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1PuUDm8 )
funkenstein_: oh crap pdf again
asciilifeform: 'One of the reasons I stayed at JPL for twelve years was that I was appalled at what the software industry had become. The management world has tried to develop software engineering processes that allow people to be plugged into them like interchangeable components. The "interface specification" for these "components" usually involves a list of tools in which an engineer has received "training." (I really detest the use of the
asciilifeform: word "training" in relation to professional activities. Training is what you do to dogs. What you should be doing with people is educating them, not training them. There is a big, big difference.) To my mind, the hallmark of the interchangeable component model of software engineers is Java. Without going into too many details, I'll just say that having programmed in Lisp the shortcomings of Java are glaringly obvious, and pro
asciilifeform: gramming in Java means a life of continual and unremitting pain. So I vowed I would never be a Java programmer, which pretty much shut me out of 90% of all software engineering jobs in the late 90's. This was OK since I was managing to put together a reasonably successful career as a researcher. But after Remote Agent I found myself more and more frustrated, and the opportunity to work at Google just happened to coincide with
asciilifeform: a local frustration maximum. ... One of the reasons I decided to go work for Google was that they were not using Java. So of course you can guess what my first assignment was: lead the inaugural Java development at the company, what eventually became Google AdWords. ... And that was the end of Lisp at Google. In retrospect I am not convinced that he made the wrong decision. The interchangeable component model of software engin
asciilifeform: eers seemed to work reasonably well there. It's just not a business model in which I wish to be involved, at least not on the component-provider side. So after a year at Google I quit and returned to JPL.' << the once well-known erann gatt, aka ron garrett.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu ^
asciilifeform: re: fungible engineers.
asciilifeform: (classic piece)
Cummerbund: You guys' all remind me how terrible my writing skills are. Nice post funkenstein_
mircea_popescu: bad writing is just the outside manifestation of a dysfunctional mind.
decimation: asciilifeform: but does working as a usg employee at jpl really free him from java hell?
asciilifeform: decimation: it did. for a while, anyway.
asciilifeform: decimation: i have no idea what kind of hell he is presently roasting in. ask'im.
funkenstein_: thanks mate
mircea_popescu: someone should write a sf piece about a deranged capitalist who deliberately buys up software outfits to torture the engineers.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this was written already, in a parallel universe where this was not the actuality.
mircea_popescu: lol
decimation: mircea_popescu: of course, most of the actual slave driving is directly done by.. engineers in management
Cummerbund: mircea_popescu: Do you mean if the subject matter is poor? I'm merely referring to sentence structure. I would at least like to pretend that the subject matter is okay
BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2015/04/bitcoin-baron-vigilante-vandal-caught/
assbot: "Bitcoin Baron" Vigilante Vandal Caught | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1PuVljm )
mircea_popescu: Cummerbund just tweaking your chain a little.
asciilifeform: in reality, the whole thing is a game-theoretical boojum
asciilifeform: men-as-fungible-parts ends up 'winning', at least in the short term.
mircea_popescu: a vigilante vandal ? v is prolly very jealous.
decimation: asciilifeform: just like 'first-to-market-crapware' is also a short term winning strategy
mircea_popescu: i don;t think "men as parts" is actually all that good.
scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2015/04/bitcoin-baron-vigilante-vandal-caught/
asciilifeform: 'On April 9, a search warrant was served at Tucker's home and a computer had an operating system used by hackers, DPS said.'
mircea_popescu: ^ ubuntu.
asciilifeform: terroruntu.
mircea_popescu: unto-u
decimation: I suspect the 'men-as-parts' strategy is primarily implemented by the aforementioned engineer managers with poor social skills
asciilifeform: naggum's 'managing an unskilled labor force means easy access to people who are skilled in whatever is needed right now, not an investment in people -- which leads to the conclusion that a programmer is only as valuable as his ability to get another job fast.'
asciilifeform: ( http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3140985758772364@naggum.no.html , mega-classic )
assbot: Re: Is LISP dying? - Naggum cll archive ... ( http://bit.ly/1PuWt6x )
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah, in general tech seems to be managed on a 'what have done for me lately' basis
asciilifeform: but the basic idea is as old as the industrial nunneries of the 19th c.
funkenstein_ can't wrap head around node.js program flow
asciilifeform: or the replacement of slavery with wage slavery in general.
asciilifeform: why invest in people when you can catch them in the wild, use them until spent, throw out.
funkenstein_: sounds like an investment
asciilifeform: when any approach other than arbeit macht frei is made countereconomic, don't be surprised when you get arbeit macht frei.
asciilifeform: as pictured in http://trilema.com/2014/a-piece-of-cake
assbot: A piece of cake on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1PuXdsg )
asciilifeform: ;;isitup trilema.com
gribble: Error: "isitup" is not a valid command.
asciilifeform: ;;isup trilema.com
decimation: asciilifeform: european welfare statism is fucktarded, but they do have a degree of escape from this treadmill
gribble: trilema.com is down
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu ^
asciilifeform: decimation: escape ?
decimation: they can't be easily fired, generally treated with a degree of 'tenure'
decimation: 'they' being industrial positions in germany, etc
asciilifeform: escape 'from frying pan to fire,' this.
decimation: asciilifeform: they have an 'apprenticeship' system in germany too
asciilifeform: decimation: my understanding is that germany, like japan, had a few living scraps of functional tradition survive the 20th c. woodchipper
asciilifeform: unlike the english world, for example
asciilifeform: one of the reason the english nailed them with such vengeance, trashing the entire planet in the process
asciilifeform: it was the envy of the crippled ephialtes, who knows exactly what he is, for the healthy spartans.
asciilifeform: specifically as pictured in the film, even.
asciilifeform: !s ephialtes
assbot: 11 results for 'ephialtes' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ephialtes
decimation: asciilifeform: it even manifested physically http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=16-02-2015#1020488 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 16-02-2015 04:18:04; decimation: the 'forced exercise' idea reminds me of a passage in the 'rise and fall of the third reich': "The young in the Third Reich were growing up to have strong and healthy bodies, faith in the future of their country and in themselves and a sense of fellowship and camaraderie that shattered all class and economic and social barriers. I thought of that later, in the May days of 1940, when along the road betwee
decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-02-2015#1020489 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 16-02-2015 04:18:05; decimation: the contrast between the German soldiers, bronzed and clean-cut from a youth spent in the sunshine on an adequate diet, and the first British war prisoners, with their hollow chests, round shoulders, pasty complexions and bad teeth – tragic examples of the youth that England had neglected so irresponsibly in the years between the wars."
asciilifeform: very much this.
asciilifeform: the english got a massive head start by having been the inventors of the turn-people-into-industrial-feedstock thing.
decimation: imagine being one of these young germans at dunkirk, watching the sad sacks from britianna derp around
asciilifeform: notably, this -required- widespread misery of a kind superficially unrelated to industry, to make industry practical
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=24-11-2014#933250 << see also.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 24-11-2014 23:13:14; asciilifeform: ultimately, being a builder of industry at the 1917 (or even today's) tech level, fundamentally sucks. as in, the same way being in prison sucks. so stalin et. al. tried experiment: what if being a peasant sucked -more- ? and - it worked.
asciilifeform: i will not re-tell the 'vagrancy laws' thing here, it is amply covered in the literature.
decimation: as in 'if the peasants don't want to work in the factory - starve them until they do?'
asciilifeform: but short version is that to have 'volunteers' for english industry, they turned their countryside into the closest thing possible at their tech level to an open air gulag
decimation: 'poor house' workshops?
asciilifeform: see also http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=12-03-2015#1049423 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 01:35:08; mircea_popescu: btw, anyone know how cockney got to be called that ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform let's again put it in terms of sex. given the choice does it seem a better strategy to keep long term warm intimate relations with a long list of sluts, or does it seem more workable to just keep the yellow pages close and hope the massage salon person understands what you mean ?
asciilifeform: depends on what you have to work with, no ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah i know, i'll be suing a dc, moving the thing etc.
mircea_popescu: what do you mean "have to work with" ?
decimation: mircea_popescu: is this related to the dcma thing?
mircea_popescu: yup
mircea_popescu: the us legal system has managed to put anyone trying to provide services into this position of "fucked either way".
mircea_popescu: not that i care, i'll be making money on this deal, but from a systemic perspective it sucks.
decimation: usg enjoys forcing everyone to be an agent
asciilifeform: what do you mean "have to work with" ? << some folks can afford a palace and a stable of pets to cultivate therein; others - yellow pages, when they get 'bonus' salary. on holidays.
asciilifeform: this is like asking which is better to get, a 'boeing' or a 'trabant.'
mircea_popescu: decimation sadly usg is not directly involved. this is more "let's make vague laws to satisfy an abstruse expectation of good". the only result is, whenever contrary interests meet, the provider is caught in the middle.
mircea_popescu: but hey, not my country not my problem.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yet women live on average on a dollar a day.
asciilifeform: where? the congo ?
mircea_popescu: average means average.
mircea_popescu: 3.8bn of them
asciilifeform: let's calculate the average cock count then.
asciilifeform: while at it
decimation: 'trabant' can transport you 1,000 miles, kind of
asciilifeform: wait till you think, what legs can do
mircea_popescu: cock count ?
asciilifeform: aha. average income, average number of cocks, arms, legs...
asciilifeform: on a body
asciilifeform: but mircea_popescu has a point here, in that a pet does not -cost- very much per se
asciilifeform: but you still -need to be powerful- to keep a harem. in that you need the 'extra electron shells' to attract it with.
asciilifeform: (is PeterL around? i bet he'd appreciate this image)
mircea_popescu: competent women do not actually cost money.
asciilifeform readily believes this
mircea_popescu: this isn't strictly chillum's "she helps with the rent". recall convo re 40k ?
asciilifeform: and they don't 'cost' power, but you need it
mircea_popescu: myeah.
asciilifeform remembers -exactly- which tread
asciilifeform: *thread
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=21-02-2015#1026639 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2015 01:19:34; mircea_popescu: "she's been going through 6-7k each month since autumn, but i get to go visit p diddy whenever i feel like it. it's a wash"
mircea_popescu: myeah.
mircea_popescu: and it's unclear they actually need anything. slim is the controlling example. chick empowered bogart.
Chillum: competent women make money
Chillum: and support you in crazy ideas
mircea_popescu: in strict contrast to the woman he had before, that bogged him down.
asciilifeform: anyway, i'll concern myself with this detail soon after i decide whether to use xenon or argon in the maneuvering ion engines for my mars lander.
mircea_popescu: Chillum exactly.
Chillum: I admit though, I went through a lot of shit women before I found a good one
Chillum: they are fucking rare
mircea_popescu: moreover, it's relevant support. the support of people you're not intimate with is worth about as much as the word of people not in the wot.
Chillum: I did not even consider getting married till I met someone who would not try to control me but rather support my bond villain like ambitions
asciilifeform: and support in what sense?
mircea_popescu: wiki dude with bond villain ambitions ?
mircea_popescu: impossibru.
Chillum: lulz
Chillum: it is true
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform very simply like so :
asciilifeform: in the 'someone gives a fuck if you come back from the front' sense ?
mircea_popescu: "hey, feel like going to prison tonight ?" "sure."
mircea_popescu: some people have to explain to the wife why they're in jail.
asciilifeform: 'friend helps you move furniture. true friend helps you move body.' -- traditional american proverb
Chillum: I am a wiki dude because I have bond villian like ambitions. One needs to control information, being a wikipedia admin is a good start
mircea_popescu: some other people have to see which common mistress is awake to bail the couple out.
mircea_popescu: Chillum if that thing's information i'm a sort of misunderstood pope.
decimation: Chillum: is there anyone 'working' on wikipedia who doesn't want to 'control information'?
asciilifeform: Chillum: may as well take over a psych ward to get at the valuable napoleons therein
asciilifeform: for geopolitical ambitions.
mircea_popescu: apt.
Chillum: lulz
Chillum: triple response
Chillum: Mr. Pope, information is always manipulated
mircea_popescu: not every string is information.
mircea_popescu: not every roadkill's a live dog.
asciilifeform: 'information is a difference that makes a difference' -- also traditional
Chillum: tell me with a straight face that this article has no information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter
assbot: Jupiter - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1HdGy99 )
decimation: if the nazis won wwii, one wonders what the 'nazi wikipedia' would look like
Chillum: not everything is crap, about .003% is pretty good
asciilifeform: decimation: mr mold had a piece on this
mircea_popescu: Chillum you're gonna control information about jupiter ?
decimation: asciilifeform: aye
Chillum: mircea_popescu: If I must
mats: can't sleep, gremlins will eat me
decimation: Chillum: that's because nobody gives a fuck about jupiter
asciilifeform: decimation: he concluded - in my view, correctly - that a senile 3rd reich would look quite like today's senile 4th
Chillum: and any other planet that gets in the way of my plans!!
mircea_popescu: mats sounds promising, buy moar guns.
mod6: happy birthday s.mpoe
Chillum: decimation: as an astronomy enthusiast I disagree most firmly
Chillum: Jupiter is very popular
mircea_popescu: o hey nice mod6
mircea_popescu: Chillum i don't think that's the shade of caring he had in mind.
decimation: indeed not
Chillum: We admins have a saying over on the private wikipedia admin channel: Gurer vf ab pnony
mircea_popescu: decimation it would be all straight edges and very fucking stolid.
mircea_popescu: i dunno how familiar you are with 1930s german art - but it's pretty damned bad.
mircea_popescu: actually ... it's pretty much incipient socialism realism. perhaps a little better. not much.
decimation: my most direct expsoure was the 'bauhouse' letters used to teach me reading
mircea_popescu: the soviets copied EVERYTHING.
mircea_popescu: bauhaus on the cheap = soviet prefab flats. from berlin to pakistan.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: eh there was a good bit of 2-way
mircea_popescu: perhaps. in the sense the russians mounted it all on oxcarts.
decimation: yeah I can see that. purified into 'brutalism' in post war communist europe
mircea_popescu: which i must say for dali, and he'd have said it if he thought of it first : fucking genius.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://vilavi.ru/pes/aviamarsh/avi1.shtml << example. massive mega-historical-derp re: whether nazi stole an iconic song, 'aviators' march', from su, or vice-versa
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1CDNVzW )
mircea_popescu: Chillum intel says your 0.003% figure actually very likely accurate.
asciilifeform: actually i have a small experimental verification
asciilifeform: of this figure.
Chillum: lol I made that number up based on experience
asciilifeform: i happen to own this toy: http://www.cnet.com/news/the-gizmo-report-wikireader-simple-singular
assbot: The Gizmo Report: WikiReader--simple, singular - CNET ... ( http://bit.ly/1CDO72f )
Chillum: we have piles of crap, and then we have stuff we selected as core subjects to get attention
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform is there anything you didn't buy ?
asciilifeform: it has a copy of the ascii portion of wikipedia snapshot circa year of production
Chillum: the philosophy is get it first, make it good later. Though much never gets attention again
mircea_popescu: i wish to see the female alf. and her shoe collection.
asciilifeform: and a 'random' toggle
asciilifeform: about 0.003 % is the fraction of the time i get something worth reading.
mircea_popescu: Chillum the philosophy is that you can aggregate meaning out of contextless snippets, by using self-propelled monkeys. this is so much nonsense.
Chillum: but we use categories to deliminate the different quality articles. Our "good article" category is significantly larger than any print encyclopedia
Chillum: mircea_popescu: self propelled humans
mircea_popescu: also significantly not either usable or an encyclopedia.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: a man-portable encyclopaedia (and Forth interpreter!) that runs on two batteries for several years and does not need the net seemed like a good idea.
mircea_popescu: no dude. humans have better stuff to do.
decimation: there's a few ounces of wine in the turd-soup
asciilifeform: (in practice it is very physically arduous to use)
mircea_popescu: the wiki people are definitorily subhuman.
asciilifeform: i would pay 10x for a version sans the garbage
Chillum: and seriously an article at the final level of completion is pretty damn good by the standards of any encyclopedia
asciilifeform: but there is no such 'pedia'
Chillum: articles like Earth and Mass
Chillum: core subjects
asciilifeform: there is 'britannica' circa 1958 - the most complete edition - which i own
Chillum: once politics, or people get involved
asciilifeform: but it is not man-portable.
Chillum: it is a shitfest
mircea_popescu: Chillum again, that an elephant which counts to three is pretty great as far as elephants go does not make this a mathematical discussion.
mircea_popescu: wikipedia is not "pretty good by the standards of any encyclopedia", it is "pretty good by the standards of any encyclopedia that were not an encyclopedia but a wikipedia instead"
Chillum: again you make a point and I strain to understand what it has to do with the conversation
mircea_popescu: this is about as pointless as it sounds.
Chillum: The article "Earth" is better than the same article in any other encyclopedia
Chillum: our finished articles are good
Chillum: our works in progess are shit and we know it
mircea_popescu: an encyclopedia, fundamentally, imposes a political hierarchy upon the world, and that of a known and verifiable pedigree.
asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> i wish to see the female alf. and her shoe collection. << lol, 'i wish to meet the female chingis khan and her sheep collection'
Chillum: that is what an encylopedia is
mircea_popescu: this is what an encyclopedia is. not a piling of "information", as the acultural imagine.
mircea_popescu: but a list of the correctness of a culture.
mircea_popescu: very. VERY. different.
mircea_popescu: which is why d'alembert's is d'alembert's, and why it turned europe upside down
Chillum: do you you object to how Wikipedia has made an encyclopedia or the concept of an encyclopedia itself?
mircea_popescu: whereas wikipedia whines about not having 5k to pay for servers, and nurtures inferiority complexes @ google and everyone else.
Chillum: they have plenty of money for servers
mircea_popescu: i object to the spurious pretense that wikipedia is anyuthing but myspace on white
asciilifeform: a list of the correctness of a culture << precisely. it is a -standards document-
Chillum: for years now
asciilifeform: like a dictionary.
asciilifeform: (a proper dictionary)
Chillum: well it is a serious acedemic project aimed at making the realm of copyrighted free and available to all
Chillum: it is all about making free content
mircea_popescu: Chillum last i saw the begging campaign, it was a very pointed "sucks we can't afford 1/100000000 of what google can"
asciilifeform: which is why 'democratic' encyclopaedia is approximately as valuable as 'democratic' dictionary
Chillum: If the free content isn't good enough, sour lemons for you
mircea_popescu: free content = meaningless drivel.
mircea_popescu: that's not escapable.
Chillum: the begging is super lame, they already have a huge stockpile of donations
mircea_popescu: bitcoin forum is dedicated to making "free bitcoin content" as well.
mircea_popescu: the problem is a lot more obvious there.
mircea_popescu: the reason is that... as decimation points out... nobody gives a shit about wikipedia
Chillum: isn't your bitcoin node free content?
mircea_popescu: not in any sense.
mircea_popescu: it ENFORCES.
Chillum: it is based off of a license that require derivitive works to follow the same license so I think it is\
mircea_popescu: a node is a political outpost.
mircea_popescu: you can think whatever you wish.
Chillum: I do
asciilifeform: Chillum: it is free in the sense that bullets in a border guard's machinegun are 'free.'
Chillum: to do otherwise would be foolish
asciilifeform: yes - they are. free for the taking, if a little hot
mircea_popescu: exactly. free to shoot you with, sure.
Chillum: well it is on a public website for download and based off code with a free license that carries on to derivitive works, so what should I think?
mircea_popescu: that it's spelled derivative.
mircea_popescu: im turning into fucking vragnaroda over here.
asciilifeform: speaking of which...
asciilifeform: does anyone remember the 'igonvalue' [sic] debacle ?
asciilifeform: !s igonvalue
assbot: 0 results for 'igonvalue' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=igonvalue
asciilifeform: !s eigenvalue
assbot: 1 results for 'eigenvalue' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=eigenvalue
decimation: lol igonvalue?
mircea_popescu: !s igon value
assbot: 0 results for 'igon value' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=igon+value
mircea_popescu: hm.
asciilifeform: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Igon+Value+Problem
assbot: Urban Dictionary: Igon Value Problem ... ( http://bit.ly/1HdIPRV )
Chillum: mircea_popescu: my spelling is lacking, but I assume you can make out my meaning
mircea_popescu: amusingly, these ignoramuses have branded the memory hole effect too ?
Chillum: I really cannot be bothered to fix every little red line under what I type
mircea_popescu: Chillum yes yes. wasn't a serious criticism that.
Chillum: okay
Chillum: not seriously annoyed either
asciilifeform: not hammering on Chillum here, but the memory was inescapable
mircea_popescu: we had a guy, long ago, that cared. it is to his memory that i dedicate that line.
asciilifeform: there once was/is an american hack writer named gladwell. was published in huge quantities and the drivel was stocked everywhere, for political reasons which i'm still only dimly aware of.
asciilifeform: he was attempting to abuse the very basic mathematical concept of 'eigenvalue', and referred to it, repeatedly, in print as 'igon value'.
asciilifeform: inadvertently revealing that, not only did he sleep in school, but did not even contemplate cracking open a book
asciilifeform: prior to disgorging his turdheaps
asciilifeform: then other hack writers made creative excuses for this stunt
asciilifeform: (instead of sending gladwell to take his rightful place behind the latrine)
Chillum: Did you know that gribble is a real person? Never sleeps, can do bitcoin sigs and PGP in his head.
Chillum: oh wait, just PGP
Chillum: oh crap I meant assbot
Chillum: ruined my joke
Chillum: on a wiki I could fix that
asciilifeform: Chillum: reminds me of an article i read as a boy in some 'mothering/homekeeping' magazine my folks had, about 'should kid thank the elevator'
Chillum: that reminds me of the intelligent elevators in hitchhikers guide the galaxy, and how smug and annoying they were'
asciilifeform: (to clarify, i am not of such vintage as where elevator would have come equipped with a living 'driver')
Chillum: I lived in a shitty building for a while called "The Ritz", ironically
Chillum: they had an old elevator with driver
Chillum: last on in Canad they said
Chillum: they eventually sold the elevator car and motor and used the cash to renovate the whole building, and get a modern elevator
asciilifeform: when i worked, many years ago, at 'nih' in bethesda, maryland - they experimented with reintroducing elevator-drivers. as i understood, it was merely an employment program for the Officially Sad
Chillum: well this one was not busy work, it needed a driver
Chillum: and you could drive it badly if you happen to get your hand on it
asciilifeform: yes, the kind that merely has an up/down toggle
Chillum: not very safe
Chillum: on a lever, the more you moved it the faster it went
asciilifeform: (the mechanism which stops at particular floors was invented long after original 'otis')
Chillum: when it got close to the top or bottom and alarm would sound to tell you to stop
Chillum: and you better stop, because it won't for you
Chillum: people are spoiled by elevators that stop at the bottom all by themselves
Chillum: making them all soft
asciilifeform: l0l, looks like me www is under ddos
asciilifeform: so, http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:ZdeGe4yclnoJ:www.loper-os.org/%3Fp%3D388+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
assbot: Loper OS » Steam Lisp ... ( http://bit.ly/1HdKdUk )
asciilifeform: let's hear it for d3m0cr4cy, where every packet, even from idiots, 'counts', aye ?
asciilifeform: i'll take one guess, that it relates to http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1096078
assbot: Logged on 11-04-2015 00:04:38; asciilifeform: <mircea_popescu> ... dude, why so disdainful ? if you don't trust people you don't know on the basis of what they write << because i can see the hallmarks of educated mendacity. the man, whoever he is, knows that i know the history. and pretends otherwise, and that he has some sort of 'lesson' for old ignorant me. i know the type, they infest (or once did) my comments section.
Chillum: asciilifeform: tcp/ip layer or application layer?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 160700 @ 0.0002813 = 45.2049 BTC [+]
Chillum: application layer is my favorite
asciilifeform: Chillum: no idea at present
Chillum: different server fail to different things
Chillum: pause for 5 minutes between the header name and header value works for a lot
asciilifeform: not paying enough for this info to be readily available to the naked eye.
Chillum: then forget about the connection on your side and open another
Chillum: another trick is to send 1 byte every second to keep the connection open
Chillum: very hard to mitigate short of load balancing
asciilifeform: Chillum: we all read 'spam like a pro in 21 days' (TM)
mircea_popescu: malcom gladwell ?
asciilifeform: aha
Chillum: what does ddos have to do with spamming? I have not read that
mircea_popescu: !up Armand
asciilifeform: Chillum: mythical book, which i imagined, telling the 'secrets' of 'k00l d00dz' the world around.
Guest64542: Mr. Popescu: Is your website offline? Or overloaded?
decimation: asciilifeform: lol why ddos you?
Chillum: there are tools, but the servers are patched for the tools
Chillum: it is about fiddling around with custom scripts
decimation: works for me
asciilifeform: decimation: why ddos anything
Chillum: there are so many ways to fuck with a web server that they can't get them all
Chillum: you just have to do something original
decimation: ;;isitdown loper-os.org
gribble: loper-os.org is up
Chillum: which is hard but not that hard
mircea_popescu: Guest64542 nah, inept dc caved over a fraudulent dmca notice. will be skinning them for it, next week.
Chillum: that is the difference between a script kiddie and someone who is actually doing stuff
Guest64542: do you expect the site to be back up soon?
mircea_popescu: yeah prolly by tomorrow.
Chillum: the nice thing about application layer DDOS is that it does not require significant bandwidth and can work with high latency
mircea_popescu: and i guess ima hammer the shit out of fetlife now, anyway.
Chillum: which means you can do it through tor
Chillum: it is the smart subtle ddos that can run from a raspberry pi on a dail-up
decimation: Chillum: but who would give a fuck about your hammering?
Chillum: spammers
Chillum: shut down the website they are advertising
asciilifeform: Chillum: why use a proxy net that has canonical exit ip list for any sysadmin with half a brain to add to drop list ?
Chillum: half a brain is the key point
decimation: maybe they have an alternative position on jovian science
Chillum: they don't
Chillum: if they do have an alternative position on jovian science they will have to go through me to get it told!
mircea_popescu: "[W]hen a writer’s education on a topic consists in interviewing an expert, he is apt to offer generalizations that are banal, obtuse or flat wrong." << in romanian this is known as "a waiter at one of these places where university professors gather can actually soak up a lot, often enough to pass himself for one"
Chillum: (kidding, I try to be very neutral on wikipedia)
mircea_popescu: or something like that.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this actually is a two-layered shit sandwich
Guest64542: Mr. P: what's that all about with FetLife anyway?
asciilifeform: pinker was covering, making excuses for gladwell's lack of even the most elementary education or curiosity
Chillum: when writing a tertiary source like an encyclopedia one must rely on experts only, original research is forbidden. It is meant to document the information that already exists without adding opinion
Chillum: original research is of course great, but out of the scope of an encyclopedia
mircea_popescu: Guest64542 derps ennumerated their db rather than hashing it.
Chillum: we get experts all the time and we have to tell them that they can only use what they know if they have sources
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i noticed. ridiculous.
decimation: moldbug would say that pinker would gladly suck the cock of a nyt writer so he can be published in the 'grey lady'
mircea_popescu: presenting rank ignorance as, rather than humiliatory, a sort of "problem". it's no problem.
Guest64542: so you just scraped the data? I don't see what the big deal is
mircea_popescu: Chillum everything even remotely worth reading is out of the scope of a wikipedia.
asciilifeform: Guest19244: see also the case of weev.
mircea_popescu: also, every encyclopedia consists of original research of its editors
mircea_popescu: which is what the term means.
Chillum: First we stored the password and that was stupid, then we hashed it but people could build rainbow tables so we added salt, then things got faster. Now we harden by hashing many times
mircea_popescu: Guest64542 internet is large, and mostly inhabited by the clueless.
Chillum: mircea_popescu: it is nothing more than a starting point for understanding
mircea_popescu: it's a starting point for misunderstanding, which wouldn't be a big deal
Chillum: any serious academic knows an encyclopedia is not a reliable source and is just a tool for laymen to get a basic understanding of a subject
mircea_popescu: but it packages it with a very dangerous false sense of competence.
Chillum: if you think an encyclopedia is more you are sure to be disapointed
mircea_popescu: no, iut's a tool for laymen to bolt down their ignorance in such a way that they'll never ever become good, at anything.
asciilifeform goes to dig for the trilema summarizing mircea_popescu's conference-ii speech re: this, but remembers that his www is down
mircea_popescu: i happen to know what things are, having had the good fortune to exist before wikipedia did.
Chillum: tools are tools, people can use them right or bolt themselves to the floor
Chillum: not the tool's fault
mircea_popescu: this is not a tool.
mircea_popescu: a tool is something that does something useful.
Chillum: give a fool a hammer and a nail and they will stick their ear to the floor
asciilifeform: Chillum: know the difference between a tool and a boobytrap
asciilifeform: which is also a kind of tool
mircea_popescu: this is a rube goldberg cube. entertaining, for us. wasteful, for the random derp/.
asciilifeform: but not for the 'user'
Chillum: I know a boob using a tool wrong
asciilifeform: the correct way to 'use' an antipersonnel mine...
asciilifeform: is to bury it and walk away
Chillum: really if you don't know how much confidence to give a given data source then that is a failure to comprehend
asciilifeform: not sing, dance on it.
decimation: your www is up for me ascii
Guest64542: Mr P: I don't understand why you are picking a fight with them
mircea_popescu: you seriously believe that if you split up the value wikipedia added to human society over the years, in "making experts laugh" and "everything else", the 2nd bit would be anything even remotely comparable to the 1st ?
Chillum: Wikipedia says clearly it is not a reliable source and it never pretends to be
mircea_popescu: im not sure it's even 1%
asciilifeform: decimation: up/down, variably
mircea_popescu: Guest64542 actually, they are picking a fight with me. i generally end fights.
Chillum: it is all we can do to keep the pages from just saying "U R GAY LOLOLOLO)(!"
mircea_popescu: i honestly believe ed is actually a better wiki than wikipedia.
Chillum: from chaos great things emerge
mircea_popescu: or was. is it still online ?
Guest64542: OK. But how did the conflict get started? Why are you interested in their DB?
Chillum: ed?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: e2 ?
decimation: Chillum: precisely, so how do 'you' spare the cycles to prevent the more insideous defacement?
Chillum: erectile dysfunction?
decimation: encyclopedia dramatica
asciilifeform: ah
asciilifeform prefers lurkmore.to
mircea_popescu: Guest64542 i ended up making a profile at some point. read some "build from the ground up with security in mind" verbiage from the baku character, sounded exactly like the bitcoin scammer broken record.
mircea_popescu: then i saw the horror.
mircea_popescu: thing looks like it was coded by armandi character.
Chillum: decimation: I have a javascript snipet that shows me pages in the "attack page" category. Every so often someone makes a page describing what a fag some other person is and an editor markes it as an attack page
mircea_popescu: decimation has it
Chillum: I delete it and usually block the person who made it
menahem: sorry to interrupt, is trilema down for you ?
Chillum: unless they can provide a reliable source to back it up
mircea_popescu: menahem yes yes discussed above. come back tomorro!
menahem: lol kk thank you. :)
mircea_popescu: np np
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what's lurkmore.to
asciilifeform: !s lurkmore
assbot: 11 results for 'lurkmore' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=lurkmore
asciilifeform: ^ it
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-09-2014#847860 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 27-09-2014 15:41:18; dignork: mircea_popescu: on a concept level lurkmore is a copy of encyclopedia dramatica, but they do much better job imho
mircea_popescu: oh russki thing. yea
Guest64542: so is your objective to point out flaws in the website? or something else? what are you trying to accomplish?
mircea_popescu: im not trying to accomplish anything. hm... what exactly is your interest in this thing ?
mircea_popescu: !s Ittay Eyal
assbot: 0 results for 'Ittay Eyal' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=+Ittay+Eyal
mircea_popescu: heh.
Guest64542: I have a profile at FetLife, and I have seen a rather lively debate there about this. But I haven't formed an opinion yet. I thought it would be interesting to talk directly with you about instead of relying on a lot of chatter
asciilifeform: Guest19244: in the seek00r1ty business, there is a concept called 'full disclosure'
mircea_popescu: Guest64542 so you're entirely foreign to the bitcoin space, then ?
mircea_popescu: no idea who i am, what trilema is, anything ?
asciilifeform: which boils down to: imagine there is a derelict house occupied by alcoholic bomzhes. the city condemned it, but the occupants refuse to leave.
asciilifeform: they even persist in bringing friends over.
asciilifeform: so after umpteen many warnings, the king's men roust all the bums that can be rousted, and dynamite the place.
Guest64542: I know what bitcoin is. I have not actually used it. Before logging into this IRC, I read a little bit about who you are. So I have some idea
mircea_popescu: aite. so basically, i saw something, said something. fetlife misjudged itself, and sent a spurious "trademark infringement" claim to the dc.
mircea_popescu: i pointed out to the dc that if it abuses dmca notice process in this way it'll end up liable, and linked them to caselaw.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: l0l, not even copyrasty ?!
mircea_popescu: some dude claiming to be "from fetlife" made a proper dmca notification, which i counter-notified
mircea_popescu: waited ten days, reinstated the content, forgot all about it.
mircea_popescu: this was... i dunno, weeks ago.
Guest64542: before your site went offline, I did have a chance to read the DMCA takedown notice and your response
decimation: i can see how the dc is in a tough spot
mircea_popescu: today the dc nulled that ip, which brings them into liability over the matter, as the complaint is clearly spurious,
mircea_popescu: and so ima sue them for all they got and move the blog.
mircea_popescu: bout it.
mircea_popescu: once it's back, im also going to dump the whole db,
mircea_popescu: as a warning for later muppets on the score of "fuck with people you don't know"
mircea_popescu: internet brigading is a great way to deal with nobodies, but you run the risk of stepping on the tail of someone who is actually powerful, on occasion, at which point the whole thing backfires.
Guest64542: I'm not an expert on DMCA, but I do kind of get the idea that all you did was post links to the profiles, and I don't see how that would be a copyright violation
mircea_popescu: i think this roughly brings us to date.
mircea_popescu: wait until you read into the statutory damages for dmca fraud.
asciilifeform knows of no serious cases of such damages having been imposed, but - ianal!
Chillum: The study of security is interesting, but the study of insecurity is fascinating.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform $100k. remember the bezzleword ?
mircea_popescu: this is a federal statute.
asciilifeform: yes but has anyone lost and paid it ?
mircea_popescu: well, dc kinda has trouble running away.
asciilifeform: or is dmca precisely what it appears to be - a bludgeon for riaa/mpaa to use, and anything else is incidental noise.
mircea_popescu: oh, i'm not suing some bankruipt derps in canada, who cares about them.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dmca is EXACTLY and specifically drawn so large players can squash annoyances, but also minor players trying to do the same get totally raped.
asciilifeform: 'large' in the buffett, usg-large sense
mircea_popescu: if you have any experience with contemporary us law, this should be a familiar pattern
mircea_popescu: quite.
asciilifeform: is my (admittedly surface) understanding
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i predict that the case will hinge on whether 'fetlife' is a tendril of usg in good standing
mircea_popescu: anyway, it's a sad state of affairs for actual providers. they're stuck in the middle. can't really pay good lawyers, can't really exactly judge when customer is going to turn around and bitchslap them with a ten ton hammer...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't intend to pursue some dubious "start-up" in canada on the strength of the declarations of some otherwise proven liar / confused internet person.
asciilifeform: (it is probably not enough for tendril status, to merely be in the mythical 'guild of all sc4mz0rs')
mircea_popescu: there is such a thing as joint and several liability. let the dc sue them.
asciilifeform: i have yet to hear of a dc being nailed for yanking the machine of a victim of copyrasty
Chillum: severed?
Guest64542: Mr. P: Forgive my ignorace, but who is DC? Are you referring to the provider that hosts your site? Or some sort of third-party abritraitor? And what do you mean by "tendril of USG"?
mircea_popescu: Guest64542 the datacenter, yes.
decimation: heh
mircea_popescu: and i didn't use that term. he did.
decimation: yeah asciilifeform, what do you mean "tendril of usg"
mircea_popescu: yeah asciilifeform !
decimation: heh
Guest64542: ok sorry I wasn't looking at the user ID
asciilifeform: decimation: what i meant was: a lawsuit in an american court is won or lost at the pleasure of usg.
Chillum: do irc client reveal what type they are like web browser's user agent?
Chillum should read the IRC protocol RFC
decimation: mircea_popescu: couldn't the dc simply claim that you were violating their tos?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://www.lexology.com/library/detail.aspx?g=13f9814f-b56e-4314-8e1b-95215ce60a6d
assbot: Using a DMCA takedown notice to assert a trademark claim may lead to section 512(f) liability - Lexology ... ( http://bit.ly/1Duf0ed )
asciilifeform: as in the 'nuclear iran' case recently - can even be magicked away without explanation.
mircea_popescu: enjoy.
mircea_popescu: Chillum depends how you set yours up, i guess.
mircea_popescu: some answer to ver ctcp messages.
Guest64542: what does usg stand for?
mircea_popescu: united states government
Chillum: huh. One would think it is either part of the protocol or not
Guest64542: ok
mircea_popescu: Chillum the irc is an old beast chills.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'refused to dismiss counter-claim.' but how did the case end?
asciilifeform doesn't know
Chillum should REALLY read the IRC protocol RFC
Chillum: mircea_popescu: I know I was using it before the web
mircea_popescu: generally these end in settlements, to avoid the ever balooning costs.
Chillum: just never learned the protocol under the client
mircea_popescu: !up Guest64542
Chillum: mircea_popescu: "chills" is what they called me in high school
Chillum: I was very relaxed
mircea_popescu: cool.
Chillum: weed
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah I suspect that anyone who has standing to assert section 512(f) probably will get a settlement
Chillum is grooving the Thelonious Monk's - Monk's Dream with a puff of smoke
mircea_popescu: decimation the dc could claim absolutely anything they wish. the standard still is preponderence of evidence.
asciilifeform assumed 'chilam', the traditional smoking instrument
Chillum: yup
Chillum: that is right
Chillum: the high school nickname is a coincidence
Guest64542: Mr. P: is it possible that scraping data is a violation of FetLife's TOU?
Chillum: used to go by HighInBC
mircea_popescu: the dmca does not provide for an avenue to enforce anything you wish.
mircea_popescu: misusing it in this manner is a misdemeanor, and more importantly, a path to civil liability.
decimation: mircea_popescu: true, but I suspect that the dc could 'find you violating' without asserting anything w.r.t. dcma claims
mircea_popescu: they already did.
decimation: but that would be something for a judge to sort out I suppose
mircea_popescu: exactly.
Guest64542: ok I get that. DMCA is not the proper mechanism for enforcement
mircea_popescu: "uh... we just ... didn't wanna do it anymore your honor." "shut up. sit down. "
Chillum: DMCA make a lot of things illegal but does not provide an easy path to conviction
mircea_popescu: conviction ?
Chillum: a toothless old lady shrieking at people
mircea_popescu: im not about to put anyone in prison. this is about money Chillum .
decimation: Chillum: it's a civil claim
Chillum: oh
Chillum: then I am talking about the wrong part of DMCA
decimation: mircea_popescu is performing a service for folks too poor to afford a lawyer
mircea_popescu: essentially.
mircea_popescu: what started as a service for folks too simple to understand why they do not wish to be /user/1004555
mircea_popescu: turned into a service for folks too poor to afford a lawyer.
asciilifeform: !b 4
assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0KA8PKP.txt )
Chillum: is this like that guy who used a college network to download shitloads of public domain but held by private companies court records?
mircea_popescu: but seriously, they're total fucking idiots. i even had a lengthy comment explaining to the derp in charge how to salt and hash
decimation: the CrossFit thing is hilarious too. it's the latest fad amoung youth
asciilifeform: Chillum: yeah. they hanged him
Chillum: it is amazing how much information not encumbered by copyright is held for ransom by private companies
asciilifeform: danced the hempen jig, he did.
mircea_popescu: Chillum notrly, no.
Chillum: I am looking at you JSTORE!
Chillum: mircea_popescu: as usual the conversations here require context that takes time to learn
mircea_popescu: myeah.
Chillum: part of what makes this channel intersting
Chillum: at first I stayed for the spectacle, after that for the intrigue
menahem: also the reason why I stfu until I know backstories from trilema.
Chillum: like a movie by some twisted director that keeps you watching in abject confusion/horror
mircea_popescu: lol menahem
menahem: :)
decimation: crossfit is the 1920's 'strong man' circus act, reinvented for today's youth
decimation: which is why claims to originality are doubly amusing
mircea_popescu: but seriously, you're all tech savvy people. who the fuck claims to have, you know, "built the site with security in mind" then makes the db trivially iterable because couldn't be bothered to hash the anything ? would something like user/F2xWjk been so very hard ?
mircea_popescu: gotta absolutely have /10001 so the next one is /10002 ?
mircea_popescu: nuts, i tell you.
Guest64542: Mr P: Sounds like your real dipute at this point is with the dc
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is a more or less plain case of 'i have the right to wear this rape dress'
mircea_popescu: Guest64542 as far as i'm concerned, there's a crowd of silly people somewhere on the web that tricked a dc into bankruptcy. yes.
asciilifeform: 'why -should- we have to be solid. the world should not contain pointy things'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well...
mircea_popescu: i like a challenge as much as the next fellow, i guess.
asciilifeform was kinda surprised, he admits, to learn that mircea_popescu even hosts in a part of the world which even pretends to honour dmca etc.
mircea_popescu: why not ?
asciilifeform: because annoying idiots ?
mircea_popescu: i also like free money as much as the next fellow
asciilifeform: exploding hard disks ?
mircea_popescu: uh... i'm not particularly annoyed ?
mircea_popescu: yeah well.
mircea_popescu: i still dunno that's related.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, i guess this makes me the first of that evil species of barristish sticklers that you all love to hate that you ever met.
asciilifeform wonders how many readers purchased a spot welder after hearing of this
asciilifeform: (the drives, that is)
Guest64542: Mr P: Thank you for sharing your perspective on this
mircea_popescu: Guest64542 you know about the log ?
Guest64542: Mr P ummm I am not sure what you are talking about LOL
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1097182 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 11-04-2015 04:54:00; mircea_popescu: Guest64542 you know about the log ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: we - or at least i - knew that you're fond of courtroom challenge. but i can't help but also remember the various folk who tried this in ussr.
mircea_popescu: ussr wasn't built on the bezzle tho.
asciilifeform: where - not everyone now remembers, but - believe or not, there were also courts and jurists.
decimation: re: the gray journal: vintage moldbug > "Of course, they can't do much. You can't submit to the gray journal. There is no formal review process. You simply have to know someone who knows someone who... and who is on the end of this chain? Five or ten very ordinary people, with no particular expertise in anything, perhaps a BA in some science or other. Who happen to have gotten themselves assigned, through whatever feat of
decimation: bureaucratic mastery, to the "science beat" at the Times."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform remember the power of the "people's denouncing" in there ? that's the equivalent.
Guest64542: ok I see that there is a record of our conversation
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: god fucking help you if i stand up in the "political meeting" and ask you about X.
mircea_popescu: Guest64542 since you use the web platform andso prolly don't have a local log.
decimation: I thought that the 'political meeting' was for the party to tell people what to think, not vice versa
mircea_popescu: decimation you'd be surprised.
asciilifeform: decimation: enforcement of norms is always - in practice - 'peer to peer'
asciilifeform: nothing else even begins to scale.
mircea_popescu: decimation the problem with a "democracy", aka representative democracy aka people's soviet is that the victory is always to the fearless.
mircea_popescu: feudalism empowers he with most knights, the rest - he wight less concern.
decimation: I suppose the only 'norm' that moscow really cared about was 'nominal submission to moscow'
asciilifeform: decimation: nah. that'd be, e.g., the khanate.
mircea_popescu: not exactly. more important in practice - the need to cut the grass.
mircea_popescu: lest it gets too tall.
asciilifeform: ^
decimation: ah I see
mircea_popescu: and so a position "of power" was a terrible curse no one wanted.
asciilifeform: chingis khan, yes, he only cares that you submit & pay tribute.
mircea_popescu: which is how the thing actually failed.
decimation: one sees exactly the same phenomenon in usg today
mircea_popescu: quite.
asciilifeform: modern mega-state - micromanages.
asciilifeform: aka 'playing civ-1'
mircea_popescu: they even use the same word - "responsibility"
mircea_popescu: soon the same old jokes from the 70s are going to begin to circulate once more.
mircea_popescu: "promotion = much more responsibility, not much more money" etc.
asciilifeform: 'nah, we're out of meat. fish is what they lack at the fish monger's.'
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: you know that still has me chuckling ?
decimation: and 'responsibility' means 'yer ass is on the line now', not 'you can choose to do as you wish'
mircea_popescu: decimation it means, "try and leech as much as you can off the young and impressionable females before a determined and disinterested young male gores you."
mircea_popescu: rather sad state. of affairs.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i had an eerily 'sovok' experience the other day. went to a shop that sold, among other items, wooden planks. needed one sawed to fit in car. waited for whole hour, while clerk after clerk inquired, where, where is the one and only man authorized to use saw (kept under lock and key)
asciilifeform: he was nowhere
mircea_popescu: drunk, no doubt, out of existential crisis.
decimation: ^ note that the hippies in the 60's were the 'young male', and now they are trying to 'maintain responsibility'
decimation: asciilifeform: was it a home depot? I've had exactly the same experience
asciilifeform: it was.
mircea_popescu: decimation this is an angle alf does not wish to see (deliberate engineer's blindness), but in fact compare the afore-mentioned weev with the unfortunate da prosecuting. is weev a lazy bum ? yes. did the poor da work butt off through law scool ? yes. still not paid debt ? yes.
mircea_popescu: conviction overturned. is da fucked ? yes. is weev feasting on his corpse ? yes.
mircea_popescu: pay a lot to gain very little vs pay nothing to gain whatever you take for yourself. hmm....
asciilifeform: occasionally, ant kills elephant.
mircea_popescu: welll... let's hope you're patriotic.
asciilifeform: but does the smart money bet on ant ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in the soviets ? ALWAYS.
mircea_popescu: elephant is not allowed to move.
mircea_popescu: ant wins every time it cares.
mircea_popescu: to*
mircea_popescu: the problems the social security system has are not limited to the social security system. they are endemic, and that because they are systematic.
asciilifeform: i take elephant's retort, 'i did not care to crush the ant', seriously -while elephant remains alive-.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ask someone whom you know in the civil service what does an overturned conviction do.
mircea_popescu: or ask them what % they must maintain.
mircea_popescu: or whatever, ask about how the job sucks.
asciilifeform knows
mircea_popescu: so then... alive ? yeahok.
asciilifeform: even in the godforsaken patent office
decimation: I'm not sure said da really profits by keeping his job
asciilifeform: overturned patent - not so good.
mircea_popescu: decimation if i was sure, i'd recommend it to bright young things.
mircea_popescu: but i don't.
mircea_popescu: it's a rather precarious existence.
decimation: how does getting $60k salary with $200k in college debt 'make sense'
mircea_popescu: 60k salary as long as you know, 65k expended.
asciilifeform: how does 60k with 200k house debt make sense
asciilifeform: how does all debt peonage 'make sense.'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "but you own the house"
asciilifeform: you 'own the sheepskin' also.
mircea_popescu: same way you "own" the da office.
mircea_popescu: see, medieval kings were a lot more honest.
asciilifeform: simony.
mircea_popescu: da actually did own his office.
decimation: 'but it's the people's office'
decimation: well, moldbug would say that the improvement was that there was an actual human the da 'was responsible' to
mircea_popescu: never.
mircea_popescu: what king do you think ever talked to the baillifs ?!
decimation: not king, but his wot
mircea_popescu: they didn't even speak a mutually comprehensible idiom.
mircea_popescu: heh.
decimation: lord/duke/baron whoever knows the score, king trusts him to keep a handle on things
asciilifeform tries to recall mircea_popescu's post re: how modern notion of 'chain of command' applied to medieval structures is simplistic; remembers that www is down
menahem: :(
mircea_popescu: incredible how useful trilema actually is huh.
mircea_popescu: sorry bout that.
menahem: big tyme
menahem: no apologies needed. site is pure gold.
decimation: well, my understanding is that in early english monarchy that the king was more of a 'first amoung equals' rather than 'strict commander'
mircea_popescu: pre normans, this ?
decimation: yeah
mircea_popescu: it's all poppycock. they didn't even keep records.
mircea_popescu: the later imperially-ambitious english retconned a bunch of shit into their record
mircea_popescu: so victoria isn't inferior to wilhelm.
decimation: heh they had a quilt somewhere
mircea_popescu: (british-german rivalry goes back a long time. as long as there was a germany, really.)
menahem wonders if we could get a quick lesson on modern chains of command compared to medieval structures ?
mircea_popescu: "In fact if an attacker waits until he sees another block on the network, the attacker can be sure that a majority of hashpower is now working on successors to that already published block, and not the one the attacker has kept hidden. The result is not a toss-up, but a distinct advantage to the honest nodes who have published their blocks already. "
mircea_popescu: this is a rather valid point.
mircea_popescu: that "instantly" is rather iffy.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell funkstein_ not bad.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not mystery
asciilifeform head-desks over the kind of things which might constitute 'revelation' to folks who used bitcoin without looking into how it worked
decimation: this goes to the thread re: how to distinguish 'trusted nodes'
decimation: it strikes me that it would be desirable to operate a node under a 'wot signature'
asciilifeform: decimation: once you are even speaking of 'trusted nodes' something went horribly wrong
asciilifeform: the original conversation, iirc, was about usg sibyls
asciilifeform: decimation: operate a node under a 'wot signature' << ultimately ip-over-gossip yes
mircea_popescu: alf has it. the notion of "good node" is akin to the notion of "clean bitcoin"
asciilifeform sometimes wonders what hanbot does these days instead of working over the old tardphorum with a plasma gun as in the old days.
mircea_popescu: if you think in these terms you're either in an alt-universe where bitcoin can not exist, or you have woefully misunderstood the present one.
asciilifeform: 'clean electricity'
mircea_popescu: well, that exists.
mircea_popescu: POSITIVE electricity tho...
asciilifeform pictures flowing positrons
mircea_popescu: nono, not in that sense.
decimation: but the electric company has no way to much delay the flow of electrons to your house
mircea_popescu: SQUARE ELECTRON-CITY
asciilifeform: decimation: seekreet d4rk kn0wl3dg3: electrons don't move all that much.
mircea_popescu: "perpetually even coordinate electron-icity"
decimation: asciilifeform: aye
asciilifeform: but this is like, 1870s state of art
asciilifeform: we're not there yet.
mircea_popescu: http://daddyslittlewankbait.tumblr.com/post/102596211799/she-was-a-dumb-bitch-who-just-wanted-to-make-her ru pronz ?
assbot: She was a dumb bitch who just wanted to make her... | Teen Wankbait ... ( http://bit.ly/1z58Z28 )
Chillum: mircea_popescu: I found this: http://tim.jagenberg.info/2015/01/18/low-power-esp8266/ the sleep mode power consumption is 78 microamps and it can wake up and transmit packets in < 2ms
assbot: Low Power ESP8266 – Sleeping at 78 micro Amps | tim.jagenberg.info ... ( http://bit.ly/1z5adKT )
Chillum: if you designed your application right it could sleep the vast majority of the time
Chillum: with wake-up times that fast it can sleep over 99% of the time and scan every few seconds
Chillum: The gps chip I have can operate itself at 50ma and communicate on demand to the ESP8266
Chillum: 2 AA at that level of draw will last near a week
Chillum: both use 3.3v
Chillum: aw crap just dumped an ashtary on my keyboard and naken body
Chillum: s/naken/naked/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 130300 @ 0.00028083 = 36.5921 BTC [-] {2}
menahem: that is the last thing i wanna picture. going back to the link mircea posted..
Chillum: I look grey but I am not!
Chillum: it is ashes!
Chillum: FYI I am always naked when on IRC
menahem: lol wtf.
mats: ;;gettrust Chillum
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask Chillum!~highinbc@wikipedia/Chillum. Trust relationship from user mats to user Chillum: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=mats&dest=Chillum | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=Chillum | Rated since: Thu Feb 26 23:32:23 2015
Chillum: you wanna do business mats?
Chillum: you got any gold?
mats: im about to neg rate you if this spam keeps up
Chillum: okay well try talking to me first
mats: we just did.
Chillum: Okay buddy
mircea_popescu: chillum it is an impressive little thing.
mircea_popescu: <Chillum> aw crap just dumped an ashtary on my keyboard and naken body << proof wikipedia is a nudist colony.
mats: have a nice day
mircea_popescu: anyways. tomorrow!
menahem: likewise, ciao!
gabriel_laddel: !rate mats 1 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=08-04-2015#1091700 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1097334 ☝︎☝︎
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/691eaa1ffd3b556f
assbot: Logged on 08-04-2015 02:25:15; mircea_popescu: !rate mats 1 Lotta paralegal work on http://trilema.com/2013/so-whos-running-the-courts-circus/
assbot: Logged on 11-04-2015 05:52:49; mats: im about to neg rate you if this spam keeps up
gabriel_laddel: !v assbot:gabriel_laddel.rate.mats.1:af274b559672ad59e75e9980aa8d67558cdb50339e2cab5747d1fcc90c50c0bd
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for mats with note: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=08-04-2015#1091700 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1097334
gabriel_laddel: !up menahem
menahem: off to bed.. wanted to say: with no trilema, it feels like the net is down. dunno where to surf.
gabriel_laddel: menahem: http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/
assbot: The Last Psychiatrist ... ( http://bit.ly/1FJvzSU )
gabriel_laddel: menahem: http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/pseudosc/whyantiint.htm http://www.inwap.com/pdp10/hbaker/hakmem/hakmem.html
assbot: Why is there Anti-Intellectualism? ... ( http://bit.ly/1FJvAX9 )
assbot: HAKMEM -- CONTENTS -- DRAFT, NOT YET PROOFED ... ( http://bit.ly/1FJvDSD )
gabriel_laddel: http://jmc.stanford.edu/articles/neutrinos.html
assbot: Neutrinos ... ( http://bit.ly/1FJvC13 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 138450 @ 0.00029365 = 40.6558 BTC [+]
menahem: szick, thanks!
menahem realizes you've given him some great fuel. gracias & night.
mats: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-04-2015#1094268 << so much fraud. like claiming credit for the Rule 110 proof of Turing completeness.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-04-2015 21:25:19; ascii_field: http://www.chicagobusiness.com/article/20141104/NEWS04/141109944/mathematicas-wolfram-sued-accused-of-secretly-recording-calls << l0l! apparently he's still sc4mz0r1ng folks
gabriel_laddel: !up Vexual
gabriel_laddel: !up hktud0
gabriel_laddel: !up joecool
gabriel_laddel: !up CheckDavid
Vexual: hey
Vexual: alf: electrons that don't all move much
Vexual: has anyone actually found a pencil small enough to mark one?
gabriel_laddel: !down Vexual
joecool: gabriel_laddel: bored?
gabriel_laddel: joecool: story of my life.
gabriel_laddel: !s so sick of asciminerism I can't even begin to tell all
assbot: 0 results for 'so sick of asciminerism I can't even begin to tell all' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=so+sick+of+asciminerism+I+can%27t+even+begin+to+tell+all
gabriel_laddel: http://search.bitcoin-assets.com/?q=so+sick+of+I+can%27t+even+begin+to+tell+all
assbot: 1 results for 'so sick of I can't even begin to tell all' - #bitcoin-assets search
gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=08-12-2014#948253 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 08-12-2014 15:50:58; mircea_popescu: im so fucking sick of asicminerism i can't even begin to tell it all.
gabriel_laddel: /s/asicminerism/earth
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 105700 @ 0.0002942 = 31.0969 BTC [+] {3}
gabriel_laddel: #bitcoin-assets distro update:
gabriel_laddel: I've made little to no progress on the codebase recently short of cleaning it up and ensuring that if, for some reason I'm interrupted, that someone else will be able to pick up where I left off if necessary. The sources, coupled with http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/arsttep.html provide enough detail for one to know what I have in mind and why. http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/system.html provides an overview of the
assbot: A Realistic Solution to the Education Problem (DRAFT) ... ( http://bit.ly/1ykf3Js )
assbot: Masamune ... ( http://bit.ly/1ykf3Jw )
gabriel_laddel: project. I would suggest that no one waste their time working on this for the time being, I've simply cleaned things up on the off chance that I end up in alphabet soup or the like. The remainder of hacking that needs to be done is of the flavor described here: https://raw.githubusercontent.com/gabriel-laddel/masamune/master/browser/conkeror.lisp
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ykf6oH )
gabriel_laddel: Adlai ben_vulpes mats ^
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 458 @ 0.00451914 = 2.0698 BTC [+] {2}
gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1096338 << The docview program for Emacs converts .pdfs into .png files for viewing. Use this in 'batch mode' to prep for OCR. Then use ML to extract images, alignment information, resolve citations, authors.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 11-04-2015 01:11:43; Chillum: the tech has improved only a little(mostly optimizations) since machine learning was invented
gabriel_laddel: The programmatic object returned then can be used on top of something like e.g., CLIM
gabriel_laddel: Which would be sane, and teh hotness.
gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-02-2015#1012802 << Seriously looking at linux has convinced me that this must wait until after a stable #-assets distribution and wotnet.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 08-02-2015 19:54:52; mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel you seriously thinking of implementing a sane pgp ?
gabriel_laddel: !up the_scourge
the_scourge: gabriel_laddel: don't need to up me every 30min i'm just lurking on a rainy morning. plus i've got a bunch of coding do to so i won't want to have voice ... i'll end up chatting too much :)
the_scourge: plus look at the logs i've been kickbanned
gabriel_laddel: !down the_scourge
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 247900 @ 0.00029453 = 73.014 BTC [+] {2}
gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=25-03-2015#1069268 << for the record I was not attempting to "pass off" anything, but rather clearly define what it is that I'm talking about. I'm rather happy to have second-guessed that decision because the correct answer is that the lordship isn't clearly defined outside of what has been posted to trilema and as one who isn't a lord I have no buisness calling it anything other☝︎
assbot: Logged on 25-03-2015 00:25:57; nubbins`: or, what was it the guy tried to pass off? "the peerage"
gabriel_laddel: than "the lordship".
gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-03-2015#1054484 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 17-03-2015 02:24:27; asciilifeform: thing was called 'flare'
gabriel_laddel: ^ Amazing that this shmuck (Yudkowsky) has funding.
gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=12-03-2015#1050100 << \o *high five sound*☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-03-2015 12:07:24; Adlai: o/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 184600 @ 0.0002859 = 52.7771 BTC [-] {2}
[]bot: Bet placed: 10 BTC for No on "BTC to top $700 before 1st July" http://bitbet.us/bet/1128/ Odds: 9(Y):91(N) by coin, 10(Y):90(N) by weight. Total bet: 155.16184834 BTC. Current weight: 64,464.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 273500 @ 0.00029479 = 80.6251 BTC [+] {2}
cazalla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-04-2015#1095085 <<< wake up before it goes off :P least that is what i've been doing☝︎
assbot: Logged on 10-04-2015 18:16:14; ascii_field: i - age two weeks every time my alarm clock rings.
cazalla: RE: collapse and motor vehicles, seriously now, ya'll want a dirt bike, what fucking use is a car going to be? dirt bike can go anywhere
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 230750 @ 0.0002949 = 68.0482 BTC [+] {3}
Adlai reads the gabriel_laddel manifesto
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51900 @ 0.00029075 = 15.0899 BTC [-]
mats: windows server 2003 EOL in under a hundred days
Chillum: Good morning
Apocalyptic: !up Michail1
Michail1: Heard people in here play with pogoplug. True?
asciilifeform: !s pogo
assbot: 377 results for 'pogo' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=pogo
Michail1: Thanks.
asciilifeform: Michail1: see also http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev starting from feb.'15
Michail1: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev -- redirects to: http://ml.therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/ and then times out.
Apocalyptic: Michail1, yeah same here, looks like the server is down
asciilifeform: works here
asciilifeform: jurov: ?
Michail1: Ok, you're sucking up all the BW. Let Apocalyptic and me in. :P
Michail1: Strange. works if I go directly to: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/
assbot: The BTC-dev Archives ... ( http://bit.ly/1NqxN0p )
Michail1: Ok, found the issue.
Michail1: Your link was to: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev <~~~ no trailing /
Michail1: So, it redirects to: http://ml.therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/ instead of: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/
assbot: The BTC-dev Archives ... ( http://bit.ly/1NqxYsC )
Michail1: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev does not work.
Michail1: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/ does work.
assbot: The BTC-dev Archives ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nqy7w5 )
asciilifeform: jurov ^
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 172850 @ 0.00029063 = 50.2354 BTC [-] {2}
mats: http://www.bostonherald.com/news_opinion/national/2015/04/fbi_man_plotted_suicide_bomb_attack_at_kansas_military_base_0 USG exploits another mentally unwell person
assbot: FBI: Man plotted suicide bomb attack at Kansas military base | Boston Herald ... ( http://bit.ly/1aivASy )
Adlai: https://www.reddit.com/r/BitcoinMarkets/comments/3275k9/daily_discussion_saturday_april_11_2015/cq8ll5j "What is China's trading area called, Great Wall Street?"
assbot: selectorsam comments on [Daily Discussion] Saturday, April 11, 2015 ... ( http://bit.ly/1aiwCxT )
funkenstein_: mats, sounds like "the secret agent" by joseph conrad
mats: nothing fictional or derivative about it
mats: this kinda con is on chapter one in the playbook
mats: a shit tsunami of tcpip.sys bugs lies in wait for server 2003 EOL
mats: http://recon.cx/2014/slides/Recon%202014%20Skochinsky.pdf intel me overview
ben_vulpes: mats: go to sleep
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel interdasting, i'll look over this
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: holy hell this is a manifesto
ben_vulpes: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel why are you in particular doomed for the alphabet soup?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: 'lo, sir
gabriel_laddel: good afternoon
funkenstein_: afternoon
funkenstein_: sorry i didn't get through reading the references in the references in the start of your material <-- how slow i am
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: i was under the impression you were in the process of curating a distro, was i mistaken
gabriel_laddel: ben_vulpes: no
gabriel_laddel: the distro has been curated - the development on top of that has not been finished
gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1097455 << I'm not "doomed to it" anymore than anyone else. But I am looking for someone in the silly valley to pay my bills. When I explain what it is that I'm doing, let's say that this individual truely understands the implications of☝︎
assbot: Logged on 11-04-2015 19:02:01; ben_vulpes: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel why are you in particular doomed for the alphabet soup?
gabriel_laddel: "A single procedure call being all that is necessary to bundle the entirety of the (possibly heavily modified) sources into a redistributable bootable USB stick installer or network download. Coupled with meaningful extensibility, the unsophisticated interests that have taken ahold of the bureaucratic process of all linux distributions are bypassed. Imagine hunting down 1000s of individuals distributing a less crapp
gabriel_laddel: y linux kernel via sneakernet produced by ? who didn't interface with the kernel devs and originally uploaded his modifications from several drones abandoned on coffee shop rooftops."
gabriel_laddel: They are guaranteed to have an agent one or two handshakes away.
ben_vulpes: nobody's coming after distro authors.
ben_vulpes: the most that'll happen is that you'll get patches regendering the codebase.
gabriel_laddel: I'm not saying that it will happen, merely planning for the unlikely
trinque: regendering << what a time to be alive
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: plan for victory, hedge appropriately.
gabriel_laddel: yep.
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: have you heard of la serenissima's insurance policy?
gabriel_laddel: nope, do tell
ben_vulpes: bigger deal than the declaration of sovereignty.
ben_vulpes: http://deedbot.org/350404-1BguzAaZR1j1j3EaAipNtt4xJoroy8V25o.txt
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Fyfb57 )
ben_vulpes: ey trinque, d'you have time to get the legacy deeds in this weekend?
gabriel_laddel: impressive.
ben_vulpes: it's be stellar to have them in place before con3.
ben_vulpes: it'd*
trinque: ben_vulpes: yeah I have time today
trinque: doing some work atm but I'll make sure that happens this afternoon
ben_vulpes: thank youuuuuu
trinque: ben_vulpes: as I understand it I'll just take the old deeds and re-bundle them?
trinque: is that what's desired, or should I involve the old transactions somehow
ben_vulpes: buuh you and his popescuity have a better handle on the thing
ben_vulpes: hm
ben_vulpes: well the embedding transactions already went out
ben_vulpes looks at deedbot.org
trinque: embedding?
trinque: arguably this is the first time this deedbot has seen any of these docs, so I don't think it makes sense to use old transactions as the timestamp
ben_vulpes: do you think it'd be adequate to publish the block, the address and the bundle in the same table on deedbot.org?
ben_vulpes: sure, *your* deedbot.
mats: is there a direct equivalent for docview in vim?
trinque: ben_vulpes: I could just make another deed with the original transaction data too
ben_vulpes: sure
ben_vulpes: seems like a waste of btc, but w/e
ben_vulpes: no, actually no.
trinque: I'm saying all as one bundle
ben_vulpes: no no no
trinque: publish them like they're new docs, and put an additional doc in there saying "hey here are the original txns for these"
ben_vulpes: those deeds were published in certain blocks
trinque: ben_vulpes: what what what
ben_vulpes: the block in which a deed was published is actually important
trinque: I am aware of that
mircea_popescu: yeah, they were published in certain blocks, you/re not re-deeding them
ben_vulpes: more rows at the bottom of the table, with block, addr and bundle.
trinque: I'll just add a "from" address column, which is always the same for new bundles, but will be the old address for these
ben_vulpes: did the encoding of deed bundle -> addr hash change between your and punkman's versions of the thing?
trinque: shouldn't have
mircea_popescu: i don't get why you'd do anythin other than a db import
ben_vulpes: why is the "from" address necessary?
trinque: ben_vulpes: strictly speaking it's not, except to answer the question "were these supposed to come from a different address?"
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1097382 o.O☝︎
assbot: Logged on 11-04-2015 08:35:04; gabriel_laddel: I've made little to no progress on the codebase recently short of cleaning it up and ensuring that if, for some reason I'm interrupted, that someone else will be able to pick up where I left off if necessary. The sources, coupled with http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/arsttep.html provide enough detail for one to know what I have in mind and why. http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/system.html provides an
mircea_popescu: uhh..
mircea_popescu: the address they COME FROM dun matter, just the address they GO TO
mircea_popescu: and that is constructed procedurally, for a reason
mircea_popescu: remember ? people can spend the dust ? so you or anyone knows what address proves any claim ?
ben_vulpes: yes yes yes
trinque: I get it
trinque: I just didn't run the old one, so was going to maybe mark these as having come from the old thing
ben_vulpes: if you want to, deliniate with an <hr /> and a note.
trinque: it's not a big deal
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you gotta have a look at http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1097382 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 11-04-2015 08:35:04; gabriel_laddel: I've made little to no progress on the codebase recently short of cleaning it up and ensuring that if, for some reason I'm interrupted, that someone else will be able to pick up where I left off if necessary. The sources, coupled with http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/arsttep.html provide enough detail for one to know what I have in mind and why. http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/system.html provides an
ben_vulpes: at the same time...it's la serenissima's list of deeds. the notary in question is somewhat irrelevant.
mircea_popescu: craftsman allowed to put a history mark in there, <hr /> is quite reasoanble actually.
trinque: ^
mircea_popescu: no need for a knote. who knowsn knowsn and who doesn't know better go suck some cocks to find out.
trinque: not saying the old one didn't work, just wasn't my work
trinque: easy to verify whether it did too
ben_vulpes: is the dust getting collected?
mircea_popescu: !rated gabriel_laddel
assbot: You have not rated gabriel_laddel.
trinque: ben_vulpes: it's still all out there
trinque: afaik
ben_vulpes: ibd
mircea_popescu: !rate gabriel_laddel 1 http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/arsttep.html http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/system.html so basically this asshole once decided he'll eat an exercise ball.
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/5e6532f9ff1c1706
assbot: A Realistic Solution to the Education Problem (DRAFT) ... ( http://bit.ly/1ykf3Js )
assbot: Masamune ... ( http://bit.ly/1Nrogq5 )
mircea_popescu: !v assbot:mircea_popescu.rate.gabriel_laddel.1:571f1ba6498d6c3fdb57a76a9bceb507251f88ce8977775e25f165ecfb533340
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for gabriel_laddel with note: http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/arsttep.html http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/system.html so basically this asshole once decided he'll eat an exercise ball.
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel "If you're reading this on github there is a more attractive HTML version here." but "here" IS on github. subdomain.gutrot.io
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: mebbe i dun understand teh terminologies.
ben_vulpes: i think it's a note for people reading via the repository browser
gabriel_laddel: ^ correct.
gabriel_laddel: unless I give someone the direct link, as in here they'll only see it from that code path.
mircea_popescu: oh
gabriel_laddel: anyways, that is confusing and I'll update it
mircea_popescu: was masamune the "good" sword or the bad sword ?
mircea_popescu: funny that all the west knows of a millennium of craftsmanship perfection and perhaps the matrix for all human accomplishment is "but which was the bad one".
gabriel_laddel: It is the good sword. However in the game I stole the reference from - it was the sword of the villain.
mircea_popescu: because yeah, totally, good-evil duality, most important thing that happened. was tom cruise in that ?
gabriel_laddel: yeah, him and Bruce Willis
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you wish to blame someone for the new jersey approach, blame constantine. it is HIS fault he stopped throwing idiots to the lions.
mircea_popescu: the nj dudes were just wasps, an irrelevant, far removed margin of the idiocy pie.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel "MOOCS (massively open online courses and the like) have failed due to fundamental issues with their technical perspective - a perspective shared by nearly the entire fiat world. New frontiers have opened, Masamune provides a technical foundation for mission critical programmes of the future."
mircea_popescu: this is vague, and in being vague is shit.
mircea_popescu: what is wrong with "moocs" ?
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: have you tried to use one?
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: or seen their completion rates?
mircea_popescu: seems besides the point, but no and yes.
gabriel_laddel: they're failures.
mircea_popescu: in the "completion rate" sense, esp if ill defined, b-a is a failure.
mircea_popescu: i don't see how it matters. a school which takes 100 7yos, produces 86 dead 18 yos and 14 sane 18yos is best school.
gabriel_laddel: Completion rate is really irrelevent, the problem is that they've created this new "format" and books are still superior.
mircea_popescu: appalling completion rate, but fuck their mothers.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel show, don't tell.
gabriel_laddel: kk, will do
mircea_popescu: and show me right here, at that.
mircea_popescu: alternatively, i could tell you what's fundamentally broken with them :
gabriel_laddel: Let's say that you sign up for a course. You cannot possibly learn anything interesting because they've got to execute all code in the browser, or barring that, you're aping youtube videos.
mircea_popescu: they purport to be learner-driven. this is as idiotic as it gets. education works in the following stages : learner picks a teacher TO SUBMIT TO, blindly. teacher rapes the learner. this is education.
mircea_popescu: in trying to insulate the learner from the hot core of education (the rape), moocs succeed in educating the learner from education altogether,
gabriel_laddel: but what about autodidacts?
gabriel_laddel: I've never had a formal teacher.
mircea_popescu: becoming something in the style of wikipedia : a great way to batten down the ignorance of users. after a mooc they're just as ignorant as before, but now it's much harder to fix.
gabriel_laddel: (well, one that I learned from)
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel autodidacts are a case of split personality
mircea_popescu: in those cases where they exist.
mircea_popescu: look at mats, nut can't even sleep.
mats: hey nao, i got 7 hours yest
mircea_popescu: see, THAT is fundamental. what you're describing is not fundamental in any sense, but merely technical. which may be whats' wrong with them, for that matter
mircea_popescu: mats how's life feel
gabriel_laddel: While I think that the whole submitting to a teacher thing is important in some cases, we have 100ks of people running through e.g., introductory chemistry courses. There are only so many paths to walk.
gabriel_laddel: One should be able to pick up a computer and learn
mircea_popescu: the path analogy is very misleading, imo.
mats: its a relatively nice spring day in new england
mircea_popescu: irl, there exists such a thing as gravity. you can't float broadly over a path. gravity pushes you down into it.
mircea_popescu: in abstract fields, no gravity to be your cruel mistress.
mircea_popescu: same must be provided for you elsewhere for your learning to be a path.
mircea_popescu: this can not be fixed by making the path itself different. it is outside the path. yes chemistry is the same.
mircea_popescu: for a learner to learn it, it's not enough for chemistry to "be".
mircea_popescu: mats nice spring here too, which means cooler o.O and for some reason they call spring autumn.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel if you wish the path analogy, moocs are like tourists : they go "to a foreign country", spend their time between local mcdonalds and local starbucks in the "idiot foreigners" quarter.
mircea_popescu: travel is not tourism. travel is when you have pregnancy scares with local women that do not speak your language.
mircea_popescu: which brings us back to my point : tourist in kenya is not more knowledgeable on "the country of africa" than obama. guy that went through "mooc introduction to chemistry" has NOT been introduced to chemistry.
mircea_popescu: he's been introduced to not ever knowing chemistry.
mats: autumn? weird.
mircea_popescu: take enough of these you will never ever know anything.
mats: i'm headed out in a bit to check out some MIT exhibits
ben_vulpes: ask them to wire a lightbulb up
mats: where you at whaack
mats: yall don't give MIT kids enough credit. just sayn.
mircea_popescu: for that matter, another important hook is the scientific method. (kuhn's book on the topic is absolutely required here, and really it's 100 pages or some shit.)
trinque: mats: the US is literally idiocracy throughout
mircea_popescu: the scientific method exists to provide support for research BY DENYING RESEARCH. that's all it does : marks wide swaths of perfectly valid human inquiry with a tar brush reading "STUPID SHIT WE DONT CARE LALALA"
mircea_popescu: this is of course silly, in the abstract. in practice, it's the only way to have research, by cutting paths out of the unknown.
mircea_popescu: the kid who wants to go "in all directions" just ends up making wall pizza
ben_vulpes: eerie parallel to the "disqualifying bad teachers" thread.
mircea_popescu: exactly.
mircea_popescu: but anyway, moocs are made for the wiki generation of broken heads, and a necessary outgrowth from the brokedness baked in the pseudo-encyclopedism.
ben_vulpes: "Regular expressions cannot respect a language's syntax (detect false positives short a full parser)" << this strikes me as a special case of the "cannot simulate a universe without a universe" claim.
mats: trinque: underestimating dangerous people is how clever folks get killed all the time.
trinque: eh?
mircea_popescu: mats how's the mit grad dangerous ?
ben_vulpes: lol mit kids are dangerous now?
mircea_popescu: well... "danger to himself and others"...
trinque: my comment was sarcastic; I'm sure there are those at MIT that can manage a lightbulb
ben_vulpes: the notion that google/facebook/mentorgraphics/ibm feeder schools produce dangerous individuals is *laughable*
mats: i know more than a few grads that have gone on to accept offers with outfits like Palantir.
ben_vulpes: precisely.
ben_vulpes: feeder schools for the meatrobot farms.
ben_vulpes: MIT killed Schwartz.
mircea_popescu: uh. this is like saying "these drama nerds are very sexy, i know one writing for sex in the city"
mircea_popescu: that's... not how it works.
mircea_popescu: !up sinetekVII
ben_vulpes: all of the other smart kids now know - MIT murders those who step out of line.
mats: presuming there is not one functioning brain in the lot is fantasy.
ben_vulpes: best go to reed or something.
ben_vulpes: "not one functioning brain" << oversimplification
mircea_popescu: mats the presumption is merely that any remaining brains are there IN SPITE of mit
mircea_popescu: not because of it. that's all.
ben_vulpes: moreover, MIT isn't producing more "functioning brains"
mircea_popescu: but less.
ben_vulpes: but simulacra that pass the sniff test at palantir and other usg sinecure production theaters
mircea_popescu: fuck knows what palantir actually does.
mircea_popescu: dubious if even the head has a clear picture. mebbe,
trinque: persuade the usg to cut them fat checks
ben_vulpes: procures and doles out usg cash. what else does one need to know?
mircea_popescu: well, that's the function, financially, whatever. i mean you know, in its own privacy.
mats: what i know is that i encountered the single largest number of talented folks with skills in weaponizing exploits at MIT
ben_vulpes: writes haskell, wanks in ever more theatrical ways, no doubt.
mats: and its nothing to scoff at. even for a second.
mats: underestimate at your own peril
mircea_popescu: so i should be careful with my windows 7 - ready laptop around them ?
ben_vulpes: zing
mircea_popescu: i've been there yo. i lived half a year in lowell, mass. i ate half my meals in the house of professors there. i know the place, as it happens.
mircea_popescu: unless they found some sort of unction in the intervening decade, you can't find a single soul on the entire communist autonomous enclave of cambridge that can speak latin.
mats: lowell is the anus of greater boston, yo.
ben_vulpes: gabriel_laddel: 6.2.3 has some bogus character formatting
mircea_popescu: lol is it ?
mircea_popescu: at the time they were spending massively on some sort of "re-whatever" urban thing. turned a bunch of the old mills into artist lofts and whatnot
mircea_popescu: (middlesex college has better tail, btw).
mircea_popescu: http://mxcc.edu/future-students/ < http://mxcc.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Benefits-of-Community-College-You-May-Not-Have-Thought-About-300x228.jpg
assbot: Middlesex Community College - Middletown, CT ... ( http://bit.ly/1FynCxh )
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1FynEoX )
mircea_popescu: shit, wrong one. wtf.
ben_vulpes: trinque: http://gabriel-laddel.github.io/arsttep.html << 6.2.5 speaks to our shared visions of corporation as research/engineering labs
assbot: A Realistic Solution to the Education Problem (DRAFT) ... ( http://bit.ly/1FynIFh )
mircea_popescu: https://www.middlesex.mass.edu/ sadly no lulzy picture of words.
assbot: Middlesex Community College - Homepage ... ( http://bit.ly/1FynQ7E )
trinque: ben_vulpes: this writeup is triggering my end-user-programming ptsd
mircea_popescu: he really got something there.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel i hope you appreciate i hit you over the head because i like you.
ben_vulpes: i've gleaned some useful stuff from this.
ben_vulpes: mostly that curating a distro and then building a lispy "os" on it is a bugger of a task.
ben_vulpes: (also that SLY exists)
trinque: ben_vulpes: 6.1 was eric's thought on the matter as well
trinque: that the right computing environment would just naturally de-derp the user
trinque: I have my doubts
mircea_popescu: "The technical apartheid."
trinque: mircea_popescu: my old boss called it the "end-user/developer divide."
mircea_popescu: ^ lulzy. naturam expellas furca, tamen usque recurret
mircea_popescu: so... you do in fact agree self directed doesn't work, and the shit has to be stomped out. just don't wanna say it.
trinque: I agree 100%
mircea_popescu: trinque there's definitely something to it. taking people out of a social context which forces and incentivizes them to be stupid usually results in shock, and then significant improvement.
ben_vulpes: #b-a in a nutshell.
trinque: anything I know is because I had mentors yelling at me and/or my work over my career so far
mircea_popescu: kinda how "brainwashing" in the harem works. or body washing, for that matter.
mircea_popescu: "i can't believe i'm losing all this weight. i am eating way more than b4"
trinque: how could the student know how to construct a scenario which will teach him something he does not yet know
trinque: maybe accidentally, but that's about it
mircea_popescu: ... rather than provide for him the illusion that he has something new while saving him the effort by merely renaming the old shit in his head.
mircea_popescu: self directed learning is like declaratory gender. "i am a woman now". "i am a chemist now". wd eh.
mircea_popescu: " oil, refineries " << spurious comma at least.
mircea_popescu: footnote 2 is at best confused, and fails to make its point.
mircea_popescu: regarding the following questions: [basic, sensible questions] … doth not work, for one.
mircea_popescu: " Prior to this, the IRS scandal, and currently the administration is refusing to take action on the illegal immigration problem. " << the main clause lost its verb.
mircea_popescu: whole thing looks to me like so much emotion flailing to find expression.
mircea_popescu: Googling "Leeland Yee", "California IOU", "Keith Jackson" or "mexican gangs" paints a rather grim picture. << i thought the web was broken.
trinque: I think this self directed learning thing is just a reaction against having shitty universities; I know that's what motivated me to work on something similar
mircea_popescu: ow sheit look at that. linking to... "the myspace anyone can edit" from your foundational document ? what happens if tomorrow that thing reads "laddel eats c0ks lawl" ?
mircea_popescu: trinque yeah, which i insist on the score. the way the brokedness system has propagated itself since at least hamilton, ie two centuries ago,
mircea_popescu: is the carefully managed "reaction to".
mircea_popescu: if you think about how a split is driven into wood, i mean the newtonian mechanics underlying the process, you have the model ready : each advancement of the split is a "reaction to" one side or the other overbalancing.
mircea_popescu: you can waltz straight to the devil on x axis by bouncing from -1 to +1 on the y axis.
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel " I've assembled some quotes from Wikipedia which paint, from what I could tell, an accurate picture," what is the meaning of "from what i could tell" in that sentence ? because the follow-up, "I've lived in the US for 22 years and heard nothing about" seems essentially an appeal to ignorance. but that aside, how does the "From what i could tell" construct emerge here ?
mircea_popescu: people don't want to sign code, even code they've written. trinque doesn't want to vouch for bundles he inherited. yet you're willing to vouch for this. why and how come ?
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: "this" the distro?
mircea_popescu: no, this the excerpt.
ben_vulpes: ah
mircea_popescu: "africa is still trying to work around the genetic/epigenetic/cultural relationship that leads the inhabitants to destroy anything resembling order."
mircea_popescu: africa is actually, at least from what i've observed, extremely ordered.
mircea_popescu: kinda the subhuman indolence discussed in http://www.uwgb.edu/dutchs/pseudosc/whyantiint.htm is its problem. not teh "violent disorder".
assbot: Why is there Anti-Intellectualism? ... ( http://bit.ly/1DUukCU )
mircea_popescu: rhodesia is the informative example on this topic. the white guys could survive the attack of outside blacks with the support of the inside blacks, even as the outsiders were being sponsored by the usual "helpers".
mircea_popescu: if you can spend half your tiem on your farm and half the time shooting socialists in the head and still be a region leader, clearly the region's not much of a challenge in the first place.
mircea_popescu: !up williamdunne
mircea_popescu: an' all that's really missing is someone willing to go to the trouble.
mircea_popescu: !up ascii_modem
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel see, the djikstra quotes are great. because they are SOMEONE.
mircea_popescu: i propose, broadly, that nobody ever cites wikipedia, in any context. for this exact reason : source needed.
mircea_popescu: "knowledge" without source is gunk. ideally the source is a pgp signature. absent that, it may be a name pre 1980.
mircea_popescu: but people we don't know from before 1980 MAY NOT EVER BE CITED unless they get in wot.
ascii_modem: in old town dc / seppukuras bloom / but no sword have we.
ascii_modem: ben_vulpes: what did mit do, eat your cat?
mircea_popescu: to go with the "how to fight pseudoscience : ignore it" stuff on trilema.
mircea_popescu: lol maybe his pussy.
mircea_popescu: I once knew a girl, she was very smart. she went to mit, and never came back.
mircea_popescu: no wait.
williamdunne: mircea_popescu: What about using citations found on WikiPedia from somewhat credible sources (post 1980) that lack PGP sigs?
mircea_popescu: I knew a girl once, she was very smart. She went to mit, then returned but never came back.
mircea_popescu: williamdunne someone late may not be credible if they do not get in the wot.
mircea_popescu: someone early may be excused because the word did not exist, is all.
mircea_popescu: "exactly like the bible was driven. before was before, but this is after."
mircea_popescu: "During the last decades the American Departments of Computing Science have severely suffered from a discrepancy between what society asked for and what society needed, but, be it slowly, the gap seems to be closing."
mircea_popescu: heh.
mircea_popescu: mr d is fortunate to have never considered "social studies" seriously.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 163250 @ 0.00029545 = 48.2322 BTC [+] {2}
trinque: \\
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 150120 @ 0.00029247 = 43.9056 BTC [-]
whaack: MIT duped a bunch of old guys to give us ~1,000 coins. Sure there are many "bad apples" but MP is definitely hating. Idk what's up with the lightbulb video it is a selected subset for the segment IMO
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 172100 @ 0.00029703 = 51.1189 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: whaack for all we know it's actors.
mircea_popescu: i've never irl met anyone who couldn't actually light a bulb.
whaack: right, that is not realistic
mircea_popescu: still - ars longa, vita brevis. betting on ignorance is always safe.
mircea_popescu: the problem is that they are selling themselves wrongly : as an achievement rather than as an attempt. which is what allows stuff like that video to *denote*, whether it describes or not.
mircea_popescu: and that problem is present, and that problem is the deep reason i despise mit as an intellectual approach.
mircea_popescu: im pretty sure it's why everyone else here, too.
mircea_popescu: you follow ?
whaack: oh definitely, that is a great way to word how I feel about MIT too
mircea_popescu: so there we go.
whaack: it's marketed that way due to the widespread lack of self-confidence in the community
mircea_popescu: now what might be the cause of that.
mircea_popescu: sure, to a certain degree the problem with the world is that idiots are cock sure while mit graduates are full of doubt.
mircea_popescu: to a sadly larger degree however, the mit graudates' professed confidence rings hollow, like the posturings of the tiny dicked.
mircea_popescu: the important part of that video isn't even (to my critical eye) the "light a bulb" segment. the important part is the opening sequence. a dweeb dweebing about how "we are the premiere bla bla". o yeah ?
mircea_popescu: well for one, rhetorics is more than praxis, it's also the voice. that is NOT how you speak, if you even know what speech is.
mircea_popescu: but he doesn't. why does he do it then ?
mircea_popescu: oh, shall we excuse him because well... he didn't say premiere humanities, he said premiere technical, and this distinction is actually a thing ?
mircea_popescu: if we shall excuse him for this, then why is he speaking at all ? he should show, right ? he's a technical guy, riught ? how come the only way his technical achievement reaches me is through rhetorics ?
mircea_popescu: it's a sort of self-parody, that thing. the lightbulb segment merely drives this point home to people who aren't accustomed withj judging discourse : the guys are making total fools of themselves. the way they do it reminds the way the original guy did it.
mircea_popescu: it's really a very well constructed piece, what with this classical parts of discourse, reinforcements of thesis etc approach. the guy that made it handshakes with me, and that's why i believe the piece to be important. it's not a matter of the wikified "was it or wasn't it", totalitarian superficialism. it's that the guy that made it clearly knows what he should be saying, and how.
whaack: well for starters the person who winds up on the podium is going to be the one who spent his time trying to make sure he was on the podium instead of doing something interesting, so he/she will always be amongst the least interesting people at MIT
mircea_popescu: and this can possibly excuse mit ?
mircea_popescu: sounds a lot more like an indictment.
whaack: also, he is likely stating this to try to fight against "sure, to a certain degree the problem with the world is that idiots are cock sure while mit graduates are full of doubt." Whether or not he's having an internal struggle and displaying it or trying to help others with their internal struggles idk, probably the former lol
mircea_popescu: i do not read in the original speaker even the faintest glimmer of intellectual life.
mircea_popescu: he is simply making stuff out of masticated wood pulp, like a wasp
mircea_popescu: "because it's what's done. because it's what was always done. citation needed."
mircea_popescu: a more grievous insult to what mit aims to pretend it is could not be devised. even if they invited elena ceausescu to hold that podium.
mircea_popescu: an earthworm taped to an empty box at the grocer's is at least unrelated to academia, rather than the exact opposite of it. they would have been better served by the earthworm.
whaack: right, but you collect a lot of people into the group "mit" The people who are in charge of running the quasi-religious graduation ceremony are logically always going to be the ones who are not pursuing interesting shit
whaack: About half the students don't show up to this stuff, and when they do it's just because it's a place to socialize while someone is rambling in the background
mircea_popescu: why logically ?
mircea_popescu: that's the crux here. why "logically" ?
whaack: because if you are deeply invested in research you have no time for the podium shenanagins, so it logically follows that those who are not deeply invested in research are the ones who do have time for podium shenanagins
mircea_popescu: so now we're split in three, technical, humanities AND podium shenanigans ?
mircea_popescu: division of labour is one thing. thought however... now that's indivisible.
whaack: so now we're split in three, technical, humanities AND podium shenanigans ? << I'm confused what you're saying
mircea_popescu: i am saying that historically kids that could add were excused from having to express themselves on the very flimsy grounds that "hey, not like they went to vassar, they're technical minds". hence the humanities-technicals division.
mircea_popescu: now we're going to excuse everyone on the grounds that hey, no matter how badly the perceptible mit sucks, there's a really cool meta-mit ?
mircea_popescu: like alf's meta-nsa ?
whaack: now we're going to excuse everyone on the grounds that hey, no matter how badly the perceptible mit sucks, there's a really cool meta-mit ? << basically, yes
mircea_popescu: like, you know, "my real self hasn't shown up yet" ?
mircea_popescu: seems a diseased state.
mircea_popescu: imo society would be better off with a lot of conjugally abused women ("but you don't know him like i do!") and functioning institutions
mircea_popescu: than with no conjugal arrangements to speask of and institutionally abused people ("but you don't know mit like i do!")
mircea_popescu: wtf even is all this cancer.
mircea_popescu: ssergorp or something.
hanbot: brandworld problems. the moment people care more about being associated with the group than doing the group's work, groupname is a lost cause.
mircea_popescu: used to be. not anymore, thanks to wot etc, but myeah.
mircea_popescu: still, a significant bias against anyone that offers their being a mit graduate does attach. one necessarily thinks "so this kid is dumb or what."
mircea_popescu: even if they appear smart, that flaw is hard to wash. "he's dumb at least some times, apparently..."
whaack: So... do you hold it against me for even revealing that I'm a student there?
mircea_popescu: i don't particularly care, but doesn't it make you yourself wonder ?
mircea_popescu: anyway, to answer the general question : biases are a statistic concept, they are meaningful when discussing groups, not individuals. for all i know you're there to troll them, or the only pipe you can get water to your house in happens to be rusted, what are you to do, be without water at all ? gotta wash etc.
mircea_popescu: moreover,without specific cause, why would i judge the affairs of another to begin with ?
mircea_popescu: you can be the dean of aids-is-cured-by-raping-virgin-infants university of harare for all i care.
whaack: so revealing I go to MIT, for the most part, commands the respect of ignorant people
whaack: so instead of "he's dumb at least some times, apparently.." you may want to think "is this fucker insulting me?"
mircea_popescu: well if you do it inappropriately it may well command the disdain of thinking people.
mircea_popescu: everyone's dumb at least some of the time.
mircea_popescu: what exactly would be insulting about you going to mit ?
mircea_popescu: i go to fratelli icecream parlour, does that insult you ?
whaack: I'm saying that some ignorant people exalt those who go to MIT
whaack: so, if for whatever reason I want the respect of an ignorant person, I may reveal to them that I go to MIT
mircea_popescu: well, kinda poisoned. you don't generally want the respect of ignorant people on their own terms, but on yours.
mircea_popescu: if you allow them to respect you on their own terms you end up buying into their stupidity sooner or later.
whaack: right this is something I've realized / been coming to terms with only recently
whaack: (sadly)
mircea_popescu: you got plenty of time,
mircea_popescu: for tomorrow, you die.
whaack: your words hit hard, gonna copy that one
mircea_popescu: !up e63
whaack: ((changes resume to name, bitcoin address, and gpg key))
mircea_popescu: great conversation piece
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1097448 << sadly.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 11-04-2015 17:09:13; mats: this kinda con is on chapter one in the playbook
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-04-2015#1097470 << werd.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 11-04-2015 19:14:20; ben_vulpes: the most that'll happen is that you'll get patches regendering the codebase.
mircea_popescu: and if you don't put them in, hell, you'll sit and wodner why is it eliezer potterboy "gets funding" and why is it that the retarded seem to be particularly offended at whatever you happened to write last.
mircea_popescu: sort-of like the bear wondering why he's not getting any milk and the shepherd dogs bark.
mircea_popescu: "if only you were a sheep" "but i'm to big to be a sheep!" "nevertheless" "but sheep don't get milk anyway" "well... they're in the general area of where cheese is made..."
mircea_popescu: logic.
mircea_popescu: "So what is power? According to our friend Thomas Hobbes: servants, friends, riches, reputation, success, affability, nobility, eloquence, and being handsome." sheeit i had forgotten that definition.
mircea_popescu: it actually is not even half bad.
mircea_popescu: SFRRSANE&BH
mircea_popescu: sfrr, sane & bh.
mircea_popescu: (much funnier in romanian, where sfrr is an onomatopeia for sizzle, as in a steak's sizzle, and thus implicitly a pars pro toto reference to "servants, friends, riches, reputation", ie the steak's sizzle.)
mircea_popescu: with expressions like "nici o sfiriala" =lit "no sizzle" = no big deal.
ben_vulpes reviews the logs
ben_vulpes: it's the mircea_popescu show!
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: irc is the largest challenge to blogging i ever saw.
ben_vulpes: anyways nonzero odds my grandmother passes during con3
mircea_popescu: well... "irc". assbot-wot-irc.
ben_vulpes: specifically #bitcoin-assets, and that only this year.
mircea_popescu: myeah.
mircea_popescu is out of grandparents.
ben_vulpes: this is the last biological one i have
ben_vulpes: and the second to pass while i'm in argentina, if things do play out that way.
mircea_popescu: well here's to not.
ben_vulpes: had an amusing conversation with a "transhumanist" the other day about life extension. counterparty had the notion that somehow we'd seen the limits of the body but not the limits of the brain. i asked if this person had actually ever watched an elderly person go through terminal decline, and the answer was of course "no".
mircea_popescu: See, 3D Labs was a dying company. Their expensive GPUs were being marginalized by NVIDIA's increasing pressure on the workstation market. And unlike NVIDIA, 3D Labs did not have any presence in the mainstream market; if NVIDIA won, they died.
mircea_popescu: Which they did.
mircea_popescu: So, in a bid to remain relevant in a world that didn't want their products, 3D Labs showed up to a Game Developer Conference wielding presentations for something they called "OpenGL 2.0". This would be a complete, from-scratch rewrite of the OpenGL API. And that makes sense; there was a lot of cruft in OpenGL's API at the time (note: that cruft still exists). Just look at how texture loading and binding work; it's semi
mircea_popescu: -arcane.
mircea_popescu: dude...
ben_vulpes: somehow to this person body and brain are separate things. this person who's never actually watched the terminal trainwreck of cascading failures.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes and this person was under 30, and had never taken a virgin asshole, or planted a tree or butchered as much as a rabbit, couldn't put together a disassembled weapon of their choice if they had the whole day
mircea_popescu: and aspires to a job to be obtained through an interview with hr.
ben_vulpes: heh mas o menos
mircea_popescu: (pro tip : if you get your job from the hr dept you suck. real men get their jobs from the ceo.)
ben_vulpes: does actually know how to leverage meatwot for work, could probably put a bolt action together, but that's about it.
mircea_popescu: and to never pass on a good sexist joke : real women, too.
ben_vulpes: <mircea_popescu> well here's to not. << happens to all of us, no sense derping about when or under what conditions.
mircea_popescu: there is that.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 187450 @ 0.00029744 = 55.7551 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: <whaack> ((changes resume to name, bitcoin address, and gpg key)) << you only have the one addr, and plan to tell folks about it?
ben_vulpes: <ascii_modem> ben_vulpes: what did mit do, eat your cat? << 'tis a tentacle of the beast slithering out of the lake, seeking to fasten its suckers onto and drag under those who'd otherwise fight by my side