assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26700 @ 0.00067109 = 17.9181 BTC [-]
scoopbot: New post on BTC Scoop by peter: http://blog.btcscoop.com/block-size-fork/
Apocalyptic: PeterL, the link on "reported" is broken
PeterL: fixed, thanks
Apocalyptic: yw
ben_vulpes: stan the key you signed those patches with has expired
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform ^^
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it was updated
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: resync your gpg
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5450 @ 0.00067109 = 3.6574 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: (am i the only one who still expires keys?)
thestringpuller: asciilifeform i hope they model an AI construct after you one day.
asciilifeform: wat
thestringpuller: i'd love to have asciilifeform AI controlling my house
thestringpuller: like JARVIS in Iron Man.
mircea_popescu: http://qntra.net/2015/01/bitpay-lays-off-9-employees-today/
assbot: BitPay Lays Off 9 Employees Today | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/14GG6k5 )
mircea_popescu: so it begins huh.
thestringpuller: funny how bitstamp's "survival" is front page news but this isn't
asciilifeform: it had employees !?!
thestringpuller: ;;google bitpay layoffs
gribble: BitPay Lays Off 9 Employees Today | Qntra.net: <http://qntra.net/2015/01/bitpay-lays-off-9-employees-today/>; Qntra.net | Bitcoin News, Views & Commentary: <http://qntra.net/>; Richard Branson Bitpay Statement - Business Insider: <http://www.businessinsider.com/richard-branson-bitpay-statement-2014-5>
PeterL: speaking of bitpay ... are you ever going to put F.DERP shares for sale?
asciilifeform was quite certain that it consisted of a perl script or two
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: i toured the offices. they have like 30+ employees
thestringpuller: what they do I do not know
thestringpuller: s/have/had
PeterL: I suppose they could be marketing, trying to get companies to sign up for their service?
ben_vulpes: "socal media"
ben_vulpes: (not a typo)
asciilifeform: l0l!!!
PeterL: are they located in socal?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: try sokal media
ben_vulpes: PeterL: 'tis a reference to the homeland of the social networks
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: lol
mircea_popescu: PeterL yeh gotta do that. i will yes.
PeterL: but wouldn't that be in Northern California?
ben_vulpes: it's all somalia to me
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes weren'tthey in florida or something ?
PeterL: lol, close enough
ben_vulpes: jeez guys leave my shitty puns alone
mircea_popescu: anyway, socal is where the really easy skanks / surfer dudes / rednecks live.
PeterL: ha, I can be hard to please sometimes
PeterL: Socal has nice weather, but the people ruin it
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28100 @ 0.00064987 = 18.2613 BTC [-] {4}
PeterL: http://mpex.co/?mpsic=F.DERP looks like the person who bid based on the 10X valuation mistake finally removed their bid
ben_vulpes: bruce oreck is my hero
PeterL: do tell, why?
ben_vulpes: PeterL: http://wemeantwell.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/bill-oreck-is-a-douche1.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kx1Ors )
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: where is this long article you've been working on all day?
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller bout halfway done it's a scandal!
mircea_popescu: i don't mean the article's a scandal, i just mean, it being so long is scandalous.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27551 @ 0.00064035 = 17.6423 BTC [-] {4}
thestringpuller: !up shovel_boss_
thestringpuller: !up the_real_john_ga
shovel_boss_: why did i get up
thestringpuller: you joined channel?
thestringpuller: force of habit
thestringpuller: http://i.imgur.com/cikxn8u.jpg
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/people-we-dont-like-fighting-each-other-an-ode/
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what on earth do you have against kalash ?! i keep wondering.
mircea_popescu: nothing! i have nothing against ice breakers and atomic shelters, either. but i don't own any!
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: i don't go down the street carrying a horse. or a boat.
mircea_popescu: they're great, but...
asciilifeform: the article phrased a little differently: 'smartphone... much like ak... simply not useful'
mircea_popescu: not UNIVERSALLY useful
asciilifeform: hence confused.
mircea_popescu: it's not superman's fucking cape already.
mircea_popescu: what'd you do with it ? shoot someone ?
asciilifeform: scalpel also not universally useful.
mircea_popescu: if you kill fifty people a day and it's giving you carpal, get an ak do it faster. that i see.
mircea_popescu: you've never killed anyone ? what's a rifle to you ? get a dildo.
mircea_popescu: brb.
ben_vulpes: dafuq does this dishwasher get off claiming a "smart wash" mode?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: envirowhinerism
ben_vulpes: what kinds of smarts can the thing possibly have
ben_vulpes: now the washing machine can at least measure moments of inertia, and make some kind of guess about how much water to derp into itself, that i'll scowlingly perhaps accept if i'm in a generous mood.
asciilifeform: smart as in 'smart free speech.'
ben_vulpes: but the dishwasher!?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: "phree"
undata: maybe it measures how turdly the water draining out the bottom is? iono
undata: some kenmore one claims to detect the turdliness of the dishes themselves
thestringpuller: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2rzvfu/peter_todd_on_twitter_with_bitstamp_on_amazon_aws/ << is everyone just dumb?
thestringpuller: should I start watering my plants with gatorade yet?
asciilifeform: elektrolytes!
ben_vulpes: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2rzvfu/peter_todd_on_twitter_with_bitstamp_on_amazon_aws/cnkzl3h << reddit startles
assbot: Elmer__FUD comments on Peter Todd on Twitter: "With Bitstamp on Amazon AWS, there's a high probability that some Three Letter Agency has a copy of their databases; expect zero privacy." ... ( http://bit.ly/1A48GnR )
thestringpuller: ;;google "I'm so startled"
gribble: Preview Clip - I'm So Startled! - Video Clip | South Park Studios: <http://southpark.cc.com/clips/189600/preview-clip-im-so-startled>; So Startled - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHAgFhNGbo0>; I'm so STARTLED - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5nlCNWyc30>
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7275 @ 0.0006762 = 4.9194 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform puts for the record that he is very much looking forward to the first case of goxian btc theft that can only be explained by an overenthusiastic politruk and his root pw.
thestringpuller: "Oops I accidentally copy pasted this password wrong."
asciilifeform: you'll know gotterdammerung isn't far when usg btc-fiat exchange handlers start lifting from the pots, in broad daylight, and leaving their 'patients' to take the blame.
asciilifeform: or what, you didn't think 'kyc' extends to private keys?
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> [] the default change behaviour is asinine (owing to how it destroys wallet backup as a concept) but i cannot recall how it can be seen as 'vulnerable' << wallet notion itself is asinine
ben_vulpes: or rather, notion that bitcoind should bear responsibility for tracking your coinholdings.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: one can conceive of 'wallet' that doesn't try to abstract over the actual mechanics of bitcoin
ben_vulpes: lol one can concieve of all sorts of things asciilifeform
kakobrekla: betmoose declined my offer. :(
asciilifeform: kakobrekla: surprised ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: how would you propose the user is to keep track of his coin ?
ben_vulpes: spreadsheet or org mode file should be adequate for the user of "angry five"
kakobrekla: well i wasnt expecting an answer at all tbh.
thestringpuller: who needs a wallet when you can just create the transaction offline, and then feed the finalized thing to the node
ben_vulpes: ^^ that behavior actually blows the wallet concept entirely pu
thestringpuller: have no idea why they haven't split the node from the wallet
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: we discussed splitting
undata: yeah, given a sane interface to feed transactions all manner of other programs can do as they please
asciilifeform: it seems like an utterly obvious and necessary thing to me
ben_vulpes: <thestringpuller> have no idea why they haven't split the node from the wallet << mostly time.
asciilifeform: private keys belong on airgapped machine
thestringpuller: well in general.
ben_vulpes: raw transaction api backport's not totally trivial.
thestringpuller: fucking bitpay with their nodejs wallet-core-thingamafucker
ben_vulpes: "https-snipsnip" this ain't.
thestringpuller: i'd revel in conformal's products if it wasn't written in GO
ben_vulpes: thestringpuller: oh tchyeah that thing's considered harmful.
ben_vulpes: ah, what's wrong with go, thestringpuller?
thestringpuller: i don't know it?
thestringpuller: XD
ben_vulpes: just another *lang
asciilifeform: single-vendor turdware ?
thestringpuller: ^- this should be used more often
ben_vulpes: i smell toe jam cooking
thestringpuller: This is how I will describe SAP for now on.
asciilifeform: what's toe jam cooking ?
ben_vulpes: !s stallman toe jam
assbot: 0 results for 'stallman toe jam' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=stallman+toe+jam
ben_vulpes: ;;google stallman toe jam
gribble: Richard Stallman Eats Something From His Foot - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I25UeVXrEHQ>; The Hacker Guru With the World's Best Tour Rider - Gawker: <http://gawker.com/5853965/the-hacker-guru-with-the-worlds-best-tour-rider>; Richard Stallman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Stallman>
thestringpuller: Yea he literally eats something from his foot
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: you might enjoy last night's thread about this very thing.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=10-01-2015#972094 and below☝︎
assbot: Logged on 10-01-2015 06:34:07; asciilifeform: re: rms and his oddities, i'd note that quite a few (most?) folks would end up regarded as similarly odd, if they somehow were set free to do wtf they pleased
thestringpuller: asciilifeform would enjoi rick and morty
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: i actually saw it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12524 @ 0.00067745 = 8.4844 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: i'll get there eventually, asciilifeform
mircea_popescu: <ben_vulpes> but the dishwasher!? << it probably uses less water if you put less clothes in
ben_vulpes: heh.
ben_vulpes: i musta been putting the wrong objects in the wrong boxes this whole time.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "I don't perceive a smartphone's worth having. Much like an AK-47, if not for the same reason." << i think it's clearly stated. like an assault rifle, a smartphone's not worth having. not for the same reason tho, but nevertheless, not worth having.
ben_vulpes goes to swap dishwasher and laundry machine loads
thestringpuller: one day future asciilifeform will show up in a delorean talking like Christopher Lloyd. this is when my life will truly begin.
thestringpuller: http://i.imgur.com/asj4rQB.jpg anyhow I'm going to go get two birds stoned at once
ben_vulpes: thestringpuller: smokes. let's go.
mircea_popescu: "Whoever stands between progress in Bitcoin should be ignored."
mircea_popescu: lol cazalla the derps are precious.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'march from me to the next oak tree.'
mircea_popescu: apparently the libertards are actually retarded enough to have misapprehended bitcoin as some sort of ally for their stuff.
asciilifeform: ^ i noticed this when writing the 'mpex review' article
undata: mircea_popescu: some, most aren't intelligent enough to grasp it at a surface level
mircea_popescu: sort-of like the way the penguin died out.
mircea_popescu: undata right. "men with guns ? wheee they came to play!"
undata: when I was younger I thought Ron Paul was the way
undata: it only took a few encounters with that crowd to decide otherwise
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: interestingly, back when there was a roughly similar 'messianic' cargo cult around pgp (the original pgp) - the folks involved more or less missed all the interesting implications of their toy.
undata was raised by "paleoconservatives"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2234 @ 0.00088999 = 1.9882 BTC [-] {6}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform perhaps for the same reasons.
asciilifeform: for exactly same reasons
cazalla: mircea_popescu, we'll see how much of their derping translate into traffic.. that thread is 2nd most popular on bitcointalk today according to blockchained.com
mircea_popescu: cazalla if it does translate into traffic you'll see it as a worsening of the demographic quality lol.
cazalla: if we're lucky, some will stop by here having read it
asciilifeform: i'll take the liberty of quoting old article of mine: ' I can’t help but picture a flashlight or a radio set, left behind in the wilderness by geologists, to be picked up later by some Stone Age aboriginals; to be fought over and worshiped. Until the batteries run out. But the batteries have not yet run out! The flashlight shines, the radio plays. Let’s listen and hear what it plays. '
mircea_popescu: pgp seems to be living a nice 2nd youth these days tho
asciilifeform: savages, by definition, cannot properly apparehend a flashlight.
asciilifeform: the more furious their activity around it, the more folly. they will come no closer to understanding, e.g., battery
mircea_popescu: the definition of savages, you will notice, is formal not substantial.
mircea_popescu: references to formal definitions as "by the very definition" are shaky.
asciilifeform: it's a comic book picture, the image
asciilifeform: unfortunately applies to a number of very real people
mircea_popescu: that it does.
mircea_popescu: kinda why a worldwithout selection wouldbe so sad
asciilifeform racks brain to recall the film where a stone age tribe finds glass bottle
asciilifeform: aha, here: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0080801
assbot: The Gods Must Be Crazy (1980) - IMDb ... ( http://bit.ly/1A4b2Dh )
ben_vulpes: "the gods must be crazy"
ben_vulpes imagines watching this flick with a typical progre
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes you live in a good town for that, neh ?
mircea_popescu: pick one up!
mircea_popescu: "If you are worrying about the time when 20MB per block is filled, you are worrying that bitcoin will have 20x more transactions, an increase from the currently throttle of approx 6 per second to around 120 per second. If you are worrying that bitcoin will have 20x more transactions, then you are worrying about it having many more users."
mircea_popescu: derp.
mircea_popescu: it's so funny how the arguments in favour of inflation go with the "general public"
cazalla: turns out the black guy of that movie died 13 years ago.. sorry to be such a debbie downer
mircea_popescu: this could be about silver, or about assignats, or about "the debt ceiling" or anything
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i always found it rather odd that folks who very easily see the problems with, e.g., pollution of the atmosphere or of the sea, fail to grasp an exactly analogous argument re: inflation
mircea_popescu: because they know that money's going to them.
asciilifeform: and whatever's on the other end of the belching smokestack, isn't ?
mircea_popescu: not them.
undata: there's that and also, I think the american system demonstrates just how obedient the average person is
undata: and for those that don't get it, they've just been told not to by their televised tribe
mircea_popescu: "If Popescu chooses to wage war in fragmented environment and can demonstrate some potential to come out victorious I'll likely put my resources behind his efforts. This exclusively because whatever his motivations might be, his basic end goal and my own seem to align."
mircea_popescu: sez tvbconf
mircea_popescu: course, forum has no idea who tvbconf is, but hey
mircea_popescu: what difference does identity make ?! ANONIMITY IS THE SOLUTION!
thestringpuller: the alert keys are currently only held by gavin and theymos?
ben_vulpes: does waiting on apparent victory to ally ever work out?
thestringpuller: in what the WWII sense? or what?
thestringpuller: and i'm not cory or trevor ben_vulpes :P
mircea_popescu: generally it's everyone;s favourite tactic lol
thestringpuller: i'm more of a bubbles
asciilifeform: works great for usa, vultures, etc.
ben_vulpes: i guess it works if your goal is to suck the conqueror's cocks.
mircea_popescu: "I don't think a hard fork would be very difficult, but only if the following two points are taken into account:
mircea_popescu: - Support for the fork should be overwhelming. If 95% of the users agree with the fork, the 5% that don't are pretty much forced to participate. Sure, they can keep running the non-forked version, but coins on that chain will be unlikely to keep their value."
mircea_popescu: people just don't like to read do they.
ben_vulpes: like to lol
thestringpuller: I wonder how Gavin got compromised. Will make for intersting movie one day.
ben_vulpes: i'm guessing dollars.
undata: thestringpuller: compromised how?
thestringpuller: Like did men in black suits just show up and tell him "this is how it's gonna be"
thestringpuller: like being a CIA asset
thestringpuller: or like what
undata: I dunno was poettering compromised?
ben_vulpes: "useful fool" is a phrase asciilifeform's to describe the type
undata: ^
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: due to lenin
asciilifeform: originally, 'useful idiots'
mircea_popescu: https://bitcointa.lk/threads/auxiliary-block-increasing-max-block-size-with-softfork.164883/ (the point that you don't REALLY need to fork bitcoin to "enlarge blocks" is acutally 2 years old)
assbot: Auxiliary block: Increasing max block size with softfork | Bitcointa.lk ... ( http://bit.ly/1A4cRjx )
mircea_popescu: everyone prolly forgot.
thestringpuller: yea it's even linked in the fork off thread
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10515 @ 0.00066518 = 6.9944 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: and people kinda just push it under the carpet
thestringpuller: "Nah. We want a hardfork."
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: so what's next, if this somehow succeeds ? two years from now, liberia uses bitcoin as nat'l currency, suddenly the workers go on strike, ask for double salaries. govt asks gavin to fork btc to give them an extra one-off five million btc to pay the workers.
mircea_popescu: everyone agrees, right ?
mircea_popescu: because a) poor workers, they need it and b) not agreeing would be being against expanded usage of bitcoin
thestringpuller: yay. free bitcoins for everyone!
mircea_popescu: and for that matter c) there's already precedent, the "poor users" who wanted to play but didn't want to pay tx fees were given free stuff before.
ben_vulpes: "bitcoins"
thestringpuller: no we can all buy aston martins
thestringpuller: now*
mircea_popescu: how about the idea is that bitcoin adoption means OTHER PEOPLE AND THINGS CHANGE ?
mircea_popescu: we don't change for the fucking world. the world changes. anything and everything.
mircea_popescu: the sec changes its procedures to accomodate my dictates.
mircea_popescu: liberia fucking changes its labor laws to accomodate bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: that sort of thing.
mircea_popescu: wtf are we here, to entertain the world ?
ben_vulpes: it's not really an argument at this point.
mircea_popescu: this isn't tv.
ben_vulpes: just kinda...inevitable.
mircea_popescu: what is ?
thestringpuller: war
ben_vulpes: world changing
ben_vulpes: war too
mircea_popescu: yeah well...
asciilifeform: i'm not sure why it even matters what the gavinists do, so long as the original blockchain continues to run as designed. it then remains a 'hawala' between actual people, and zimbabwe can do whatever
ben_vulpes: usg can mandate its serfs run .10 or w/e
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sure.
mircea_popescu: http://qntra.net/2015/01/the-hard-fork-missile-crisis/#comment-6676 <<
assbot: The Hard Fork Missile Crisis | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1A4dsld )
mircea_popescu: the great gift of satoshi is exactly that : we finally have a tool whereby idiots can only hurt themselves.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i suspect that the only reason we do not yet have 'mandatory' national altcoins is that lizardhitler still hopes to wind back clock to '08 or the like
mircea_popescu: bitcoin didn't appreciably suffer because whatever scam, paycoin or w/e was created
mircea_popescu: "just as much a cryptocurrency, only better!"
mircea_popescu: recall realsolid ?
mircea_popescu: same deal here. so gavin is making something that
mircea_popescu: 's "just as much bitcoin as bitcoin only better" ? poopy for him lol.
mircea_popescu: he can pay gmaxwell in it and tip reddit.
thestringpuller: !up hermeto
mircea_popescu: "MP def lost the intellectual battle by the brag of wealth as his last effort to win."
mircea_popescu: check out the many ways you can lose "intellectual battles" lol.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5850 @ 0.00066308 = 3.879 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: this has nothing to do with the block size anymore does it?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'at no point was the FSF an important force on the field.' << though history isn't an experimental science, we are getting a kind of picture of what we may have ended up with much sooner, without rms
thestringpuller: This is about Gavin proving he can hijack the Bitcoin network to whomever his handler may be.
asciilifeform: apple's bsd fork is the likely model
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller more like, proving that he can STILL do it.
asciilifeform: 'embrace&extinguish'
thestringpuller: obilteration of legacy...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but listen. just because the tiny nation of romania made the famine at leningrad possible doth not mean romania was an IMPORTANT player in ww2.
mircea_popescu: and an argument that hitler marginalized antonescu is at best bizarre.
asciilifeform: see also http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-01-2015#967929 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 07-01-2015 04:41:46; asciilifeform: naggum had a piece where he confessed to thinking of 'open source' as a weapon, purpose-built for the destruction of a particular evil (microshit)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: finland better example
mircea_popescu: yeah, tellingly no mention of gates makes into morozov's thinking.
mircea_popescu: i guess "important" is not the best word, as im discussing size-importance.
mircea_popescu: not sure how'd that be said better.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18794 @ 0.00067437 = 12.6741 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: 'Stallman complained that anything of good quality remains...' << rms is a counterweight.
asciilifeform: he has some rather peculiar and sometimes contradictory logic behind the -why- of what he does, but so did semmelweis.
asciilifeform: 'gpl' is a weapon. yes, bullet makes bloody holes in things - that's what it was made for. yes, bullet is dumb and goes in whatever direction for no really logical reasons it can explain. big surprise.
thestringpuller: RMS isn't married is he.
asciilifeform: not afaik
thestringpuller: no wonder his eccentricities go unchecked.
asciilifeform: they go unchecked because he has independent income.
thestringpuller: an no she-devil at home to suck his life force away
thestringpuller: good for him tho
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: these are optional
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yes, all that's true.
mircea_popescu: neither of it enacts rms as some sort of Jesus unless im missing a lot ?
asciilifeform: no jesusen needed
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: i don't propose that rms "shouldn't have" or that fsf shouldn't have been or anything of the sort. but really, the pretense that at some point the situation seriously was, red pill vs blue pill and o'reilly of all people tricked everyone into getting the wrong pill...
mircea_popescu: that's rank nonsense, who ever heard of it.
asciilifeform: see the semmelweis example. it doesn't much matter that he advocated 'wash hands' because the cockroaches and spiders in his head told him to, rather than some better reason.
mircea_popescu: the situation was microsoft or go hang yourself, to which a lot of people who didn't particularly wish to hang themselves reacted as best they could,
mircea_popescu: and in the end it killed ms, but then... google was born, and apple was reborn, and here we are.
asciilifeform: the thing rms was trying to kill in, say, 'right to read', is still alive and well.
mircea_popescu: right.
mircea_popescu: and this for structural reasons, really.
asciilifeform: arguably microshit is reborn in these other devils, much as ibm was reborn in it
mircea_popescu: if i write something on my slavew's thigh it's none of your damned business wtf.
asciilifeform: usg dept. of computing.
ben_vulpes: thestringpuller: http://qntra.net/2015/01/the-hard-fork-missile-crisis/ << wd
assbot: The Hard Fork Missile Crisis | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1w8dGFC )
asciilifeform: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
assbot: The Right to Read- GNU Project - Free Software Foundation ... ( http://bit.ly/1w8dExK )
asciilifeform: ^ about something rather else
mircea_popescu: is it ?
ben_vulpes: also hey qntra would you drop gravatar for the "here's my domain, please serve domain/avatar.png" icon model?
mircea_popescu: holy shit it lives
asciilifeform: it's about the inevitable war of the state and its shitminions vs. the concept of the general-purpose computer.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in one aspect. now make an ethical distinction / moral rule (really nfi why they keep derping about ethics, its all a moral consideration) that resolves that while preserving my slave's thigh.
asciilifeform is somewhat confused
asciilifeform: slave's thigh ?
mircea_popescu: yes. that if i write something on my slave's thigh, it's none of your damned business.
mircea_popescu: state the rms "ethical consideration" w/e it is. "nobody may forbid anyone's access to written strings" ?
asciilifeform: rms was speaking of the right to do as you will with things that are physically yours, without gestapo suddenly breaking down the door and demanding to see if you've multiplied unauthorized numbers
mircea_popescu: but this is a summary instead of the thing.
asciilifeform doesn't go in for the whole 'rights' paradigm and isn't terribly fond of proceeding in that framework
mircea_popescu: how's this rule sound ?
mircea_popescu: well he gotta have something. you can't start a "social movement" out of vague descriptions of desired outcomes
mircea_popescu: there must be some sort of code somewhere.
asciilifeform: rms might say, 'i'll leave you with your slave, you leave me with my computer'
mircea_popescu: what if it's my computer ?
asciilifeform: somethinglikethat
asciilifeform: yours?
asciilifeform: as in, lent to him ?
mircea_popescu: suppose i make computers, and decide to not sell them. what now ?
mircea_popescu: yes, as in lent to him.
asciilifeform: then presumably he made some oath in return ?
mircea_popescu: "but that's bad"
mircea_popescu: it really doesn't amount to much, if you examine it.
asciilifeform: to follow the analogy, rms was offered computer that came with 'strings' - promise not to xxx, etc. went off to make own.
mircea_popescu: your " without gestapo suddenly breaking down the door and demanding to see if you've multiplied unauthorized numbers" is exactly equivalent i suspect to what i call who are you again ? fuck off, I don't give a shit" sort of approach to third parties of any man owning a computer
mircea_popescu: but these aren't a moral philosophy.
mircea_popescu: pretending the contrary is fine, if one so prefers, but it's still mere pretense.
asciilifeform: i suspect that he spun the whole thing as 'moral philosophy' because if he had readily admitted that gpl was merely a successful hack against usg's 'laws', he would have been killed.
mircea_popescu: or so he feared, or so he cared.
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: anyway, for whatever reason, things still are what they are.
asciilifeform: whereas cultivating 'sainthood', lame as it is, appears to have worked - at least for preserving his skin.
mircea_popescu: not that i think fsf's bad or anything. merely observing that peanuts aren't aeroplanes does not imply a hatred of peanuts.
mircea_popescu: so let's go further in the fertile soil (hint hint) of female simile
asciilifeform: as mere aesthetic preference, i'd rather if folks were able to be honest with themselves and others re: their motivations. but i did not fight rms's war, cannot say 'he oughta have....'
mircea_popescu: if you get married, which is to say, BORROW a woman from her father, and swear an oath
mircea_popescu: may you have now anal sex ? provided you both agree to it ?
mircea_popescu: the traditional answer is no.
mircea_popescu: modernity soundly answered yes.
mircea_popescu: rms' ideas are a sort of "this is computing so elvis never happened".
asciilifeform: reminds of that mortmain thing
mircea_popescu: in a sense.
asciilifeform blew a good 3-4 hours reading about it
mircea_popescu: hehe not wasted time.
mircea_popescu: it
mircea_popescu: s perhaps the most informative avenue into the ACTUAL history of this sphere.
mircea_popescu: not re-narrated with a view to make contemporary institutions meaningful and appear sensible.
mircea_popescu: but actually, as it was, with a view to its own self coherence.
asciilifeform: in one sense, jurists have things easy re: mortmain; they at least have the option of going 'no more'
mircea_popescu: only recently.
asciilifeform: go and try reversing, e.g., design space shrinkage in engineering
mircea_popescu: as late as 1880 it was held that such option is not on the table
asciilifeform: aha because 'then may as well the breaking of the tablets, all bets off'
mircea_popescu: and ironically, it seems the old hands were right. it went to shit since then.
mircea_popescu: yep exactly.
mircea_popescu: "paper laws" are quite like paper money.
asciilifeform: sapper - errs once.
asciilifeform: re: rms: i vaguely recall that gpl was invented (conceptually) by his friend & associate, eben moglen
asciilifeform: a jurist
mircea_popescu: here's a question, btw : what's better, to be running the proverbial taxi in new york ? or to be in a later generation, playing exactly the role of pocahontas to various ngos, "look at this nigger injun, how like our own kids he is, and how pretty in that dress!" ?
asciilifeform: who wrote, iirc, 'yes, i despise law; yet i practice it; must a doctor love disease?'
mircea_popescu: lol i recall that.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21005 @ 0.00066187 = 13.9026 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: pocahontas << is this the old russian prison quiz, 'fork in yer eye or once up yer arse ?'
mircea_popescu: no, it's simply looking at the life of one evgheny morozov. for you see stan, little zenja was a country boy that got himself mixed up in the high stakes game of anglo propaganda and intenrational diplomacy!
asciilifeform: rot13 answ: gur cnffvat nafjre vf, nyjnlf, gb gnxr gur sbex. bhtug gb xabj gung gurer ner ab sbexf va gur cevfba. naq rira vs gurer jrer, sne orggre gb ybfr lbhe rlr guna gb or ybjrerq vagb crqrenfgl.
mircea_popescu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evgeny_Morozov
assbot: Evgeny Morozov - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1w8f6Ad )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i somehow lived life and avoided learning that the fellow who prints the (now mostly junk) books with the animal line drawings on the covers is a demented sv sc4mz0r; or that morozov existed at all
asciilifeform: although
asciilifeform: come to think of it, orlov may have mentioned him once
mircea_popescu: see how corrupting an influence assbot is ?
asciilifeform: identified as a u.s. state dept. muppet
mircea_popescu: what, they print army manuals too /
mircea_popescu: "an idiot's guide to cleanning your boots!"
asciilifeform: wat
mircea_popescu: i dunno, was asking.
mircea_popescu: / = ?
asciilifeform: there are several, afaik independent, lines of 'for idiots' works
asciilifeform: i actually own a copy of, i shit thee not, 'webtv for dummies'
asciilifeform: as a result of losing a bet in school
mircea_popescu: o wow, webtv
mircea_popescu: that was a bitcoin fork at some point too!
mircea_popescu: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digerati
assbot: Digerati - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1y24LwW )
mircea_popescu: ajhahahaha
mircea_popescu: check this out, the digested.
mircea_popescu: that's how he fucking confuses thiel and kelly. they're all digested, right ? same thing!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so i follow your link to gnu.org, top of the page ? a very wikipedia-ish request for donations.
mircea_popescu: sleeker than wikipedia's tho. the definitely web 1.0 look of gnu.org helps.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: fsf begs for every coin, aye
asciilifeform: always has
mircea_popescu: obviously it will have to, it's a non profit. no issue with the substance. the form struck me tho.
mircea_popescu: is it that wikipedia has found the bewst way to do this ? or is it that once they did it everyone can follow in that wake ?
asciilifeform: 'digerati', as i understand, encompasses a set of peculiarly wealthy ('dotcom boom', normally, but often barnacled to this or that mega-corp success of some vaguely computerized sort 1980-2000)
asciilifeform: who imagine themselves 'lead thinkers'
asciilifeform: best example i know of, of this animal, is one jaron lanier
asciilifeform: truly grotesque specimen
mircea_popescu: never heard of him.
asciilifeform: strictly zoological interest
asciilifeform: strike that, entomological.
mircea_popescu: some musician or something ?
asciilifeform: not famous for music. but happened to purchase a number of rare instruments, iirc, to pluck at while sitting on golden toilet
asciilifeform: lanier, in particular, isn't a muppet, and even had a number of public good points (wrote at length re: the degeneracy of pediwikia, etc) - but, while reading his material, i continuously found myself asking 'why does this man have money'
mircea_popescu: it's not a crime is it ?
asciilifeform: not the having-money, but being part of that set, in my mind, is an indelible tarnish
asciilifeform: the california degenerates.
mircea_popescu: would you fuck a nazi ?
asciilifeform: depends!
mircea_popescu: hehe.
asciilifeform has the utmost difficulty picturing a female nazi other than proverbial 'ilsa, she-wolf of auschwitz'
mircea_popescu: generally i think of the girl that poisoned her brood.
asciilifeform: mrs goebbels ?
mircea_popescu: kinda surprised there's not more art dedicated to her. i'm unaware of more remarkable women in the xxth century.
mircea_popescu: yes.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ever see film 'come and see' ('Иди и смотри') ?
mircea_popescu: nop
mircea_popescu: nice osunding name huh.
mircea_popescu: idi-i-smotri
mircea_popescu: "During WWII, a Belarusian boy is thrust into the atrocities of war, fighting with a hopelessly unequipped Soviet resistance movement against ruthless German forces. Witnessing scenes of abject terror and surviving horrifying situations, he loses his innocence and then his mind."
mircea_popescu: dude what do they have against bielorussians! it's always them getting fingers caught in doors.
asciilifeform: one memorable scene. germans waste a village, shown in glorious detail (complete with barns nailed shut, set alight, etc, etc). on their way out, get ambushed and mowed down. including their hot chick nurse, but she's not entirely dead. hero (boy) walks along and finds this. takes a look at the chick, who is bleeding and looking seductively at him. then he sees bandage pack on ground. decides to bandage broken stock of his rif
asciilifeform: le instead.
asciilifeform: (why he has rifle? no reason. just found it, while derping his way through the war, miraculously avoiding ending up sausage)
mircea_popescu: heh.
BingoBoingo: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2015/01/07/aggressive-nazi-bred-cows-caused-havoc-on-a-modern-farm/?Post+generic=%3Ftid%3Dsm_twitter_washingtonpost
assbot: The aggressive Nazi-bred cows that caused havoc on a modern farm - The Washington Post ... ( http://bit.ly/1KxvhSj )
mircea_popescu: someone should take a yearling dromedary to a skating rink
asciilifeform: http://bit.ly/1xQEdwr << for the lazy, the scene described earlier
assbot: Иди и смотри 2 серия - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Kxw85c )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22000 @ 0.00065213 = 14.3469 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: hey mircea_popescu what's the going rate for a box of tampons in bsas? the "tampon shortage" is making the rounds on jezebe
ben_vulpes: jezebel*
cazalla: ben_vulpes: also hey qntra would you drop gravatar for the "here's my domain, please serve domain/avatar.png" icon model? <<< done
ben_vulpes: speedy delivery eh
ben_vulpes: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/serialize.h#L90, https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/master/src/primitives/transaction.h#L259<< "HAI CAN I JAMZ THESE MEFFUDS IN HERE GUISE"
assbot: bitcoin/serialize.h at master · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1AD61nT )
assbot: bitcoin/transaction.h at master · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1AD603e )
ben_vulpes: iff
ben_vulpes: berp nm
asciilifeform: what is notable re: this particular bit of cpp cruft?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes lol i dunno, 5 bux ?
mircea_popescu: hanbot hey, what's tampons cost ? inquiring male minds wish to know
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: yeah turns out some source mindlessly subbed "dollars" for "pesos"
asciilifeform: the unit cost of menstruettes is roughly same as cigarettes (afaik)
mircea_popescu: heh.
mircea_popescu: so what, ended up with 70 dollar tampons ?
ben_vulpes: in the game of retarded telephone that is the us link reposting scam masquerading as 'nooz'
artifexd: mircea_popescu: can you elaborate on "a pgp-signed document by the for key certifying the validity of the IPs public key with an expiration unixtimev in case the for field differs and a nickname"?
asciilifeform: 70 dollar tampon << pure win
mircea_popescu: artifexd i can. what specifically ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10150 @ 0.00064082 = 6.5043 BTC [-] {2}
artifexd: I don't understand what you mean
artifexd: All the words make sense but when you put them in that order...
asciilifeform: artifexd: may help to read a certain thread:
asciilifeform: !s ephemeral key
assbot: 13 results for 'ephemeral key' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=ephemeral+key
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: consider it an otherwise unremarkable arrowhead from the dig
mircea_popescu: let A connect to B. let A pass a message to B in the format "A for X, sup". B must find in the hello message through which A connected to it a document where X signs A's privkey,
ben_vulpes: me i'm just fascinated that the savages can bang such arms together with basalt and obsidian
asciilifeform: artifexd: generally, one ought not to connect one's wot private key to an automated, net-live apparatus. hence you sign another key with it, and use that.
mircea_popescu: that document must include a unixtime indicating expiry.
artifexd: What is the format of said document?
mircea_popescu: your problme.
asciilifeform: artifexd: the signature itself will almost certainly start life as a gpg output.
ben_vulpes: artifexd: formal grammar!
ben_vulpes: ignore me
mircea_popescu: formally or merely, ben_vulpes ?
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes is volunteering to write a backus-naur grammar ?
ben_vulpes: 'twas an exhortation to make a bnf
artifexd: I am currently using pointers to exported key files instead of trying to shoehorn keys into config files.
mircea_popescu: baccus moar like it, amirite.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu knows my format :P
mircea_popescu: artifexd pointers, what kind ?
artifexd: filename
mircea_popescu: seems you're shoehorning the filesystem into it instead ?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: no sir my hands are full with cpp backports
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21150 @ 0.00063831 = 13.5003 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: o look, somebody ddosed qntra earlier ?
BingoBoingo: How'd they do it this time?
mats: fun fact: the python stdlib had an enigma implementation til 2.4
asciilifeform: l0l!
asciilifeform: goes great with 'telefunken' modem and other artifacts from alternate nazi universe
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i dunno, but it's a bw depletion rather than the prev ram/cpu/state depletion. doesn't seem to have done anything.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ynot van W inciudentally ?
BingoBoingo: Maybe just a compulsive reloader? Perhaps some derp was serving one of our pages in their iframe?
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo unlikely, it peaked around 2gpbs or so
BingoBoingo: Ah
asciilifeform: van w ?
mircea_popescu: whatever algol did. waasomething.
mircea_popescu: van Wijngaarden, google informs us.
asciilifeform: nah everybody knows nazi internet runs on konrad zuse's gizmo.
mircea_popescu: i always liked the "fuck you, they're strings, and concatenation is the only operation" approach.
mircea_popescu: so did knuth iirc.
asciilifeform: see also SNOBOL.
asciilifeform: (which i will always imagine as a 'snob cobol' no matter how many times told that 'snowball')
artifexd: mircea_popescu: A << in the logs caused http://trilema.com/2015/artifexd-a-better-ircd-rfc/#comment-111384 to get half eaten, so I reposted it without that line. Hence the double post.
assbot: [Artifexd] A better ircd [RFC] pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1AD9IKd )
mircea_popescu: well... it
mircea_popescu: 's pearlier than perl...
mircea_popescu: artifexd waitwut?
mircea_popescu: ends in "mircea_popescu: sure". that seems right neh ?
artifexd: meh
mircea_popescu: oh nm i see what you mean
artifexd: Tip to future copy/pasters: Don't include << in the text or everything after it will get routed to /dev/null
mircea_popescu: yeah html hates < separators. but for some reason they seem the best way to convey the intent here
mircea_popescu: this , incidentally, is why computer standards are such a royal bitch.
mircea_popescu: "don't use <" "why not!" "fuck you!" "NO U!"
asciilifeform: in-band signalling is inevitably lame.
asciilifeform: recall jurov's turdatron.
mircea_popescu: and multi band maintenance is inevitably a hassle.
asciilifeform: not necessarily. a binary signed with pgp is example of out-of-band.
mircea_popescu: and not a hassle ?
mircea_popescu: "not for me" "fuck you!" "NO U!"
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-10-2014#901052 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=29-10-2014#901055 ☝︎☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-10-2014 01:36:19; asciilifeform: because plain ascii is like naked people
assbot: Logged on 29-10-2014 01:36:30; asciilifeform: everything feels free to manipulate the hanging bits
mircea_popescu: ;;google nudism is the natural state
gribble: Naturism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturism>; Natural state Synonyms, Natural state Antonyms | Thesaurus.com: <http://www.thesaurus.com/browse/natural+state>; Nudity - RationalWiki: <http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Nudity>
mircea_popescu: o shit, rationalwiki is on it ?!
mircea_popescu: hide the clitoral hoods, abscond the mounds, science is on the field!
asciilifeform: the yudkowsky cult is like 'borg' from 'star trek', digest and regurgitate everything. eventually they will annotate #b-a and claim that all of the interesting ideas belong to selves
asciilifeform: no one will notice except for thiel, who will sign another cheque
asciilifeform: which mr. y will spend on six concubines fresh in their crates.
mircea_popescu: by the way : pretty much every kitchen shop here has, along the pots and pans, kitchen aprons.
mircea_popescu: and inevitably one must represent a naked hot woman.
mircea_popescu: they';re so common i'm persuaded a good fraction of local women actually go about the house in those things.
asciilifeform: 'talmudic' cheat, naked without naked
mircea_popescu: http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/pulp/fake%20nudists.jpg << check it out, the little girl has a vulva even!
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ADbtqO )
asciilifeform: l0l!
artifexd: One more question: Any objection to adding a timestamp to the trust ratings in gossipd?
mircea_popescu: See also "Cunt Fatwa Hypnotic breast enlargement"
mircea_popescu: dude... this rational wiki thing is comedic!
BingoBoingo: http://www.washingtonian.com/blogs/bestbites/in-the-magazine/was-washingtonian-unethical-to-demote-the-inn-at-little-washington.php
assbot: Chef Patrick O'Connell Questions Washingtonian's Ethics for Demoting the Inn at Little Washington | In the Magazine | Washingtonian ... ( http://bit.ly/1ADbL10 )
mircea_popescu: “All of us at The Inn at Little Washington have much to be grateful for as we enter the new year. The Inn remains the longest-tenured Forbes Five Star and AAA Five Diamond restaurant in America. We possess the highest Zagat rating (29, 29, 29) in the world. Once again, The Inn has received The Washington Post’s highest 4-star rating from restaurant reviewer Tom Sietsema. Most of us understand that, in today’s wor
mircea_popescu: ld, as print media struggles for survival, creating controversy sells magazines whether it’s ethical or not.”
mircea_popescu: aahaha
mircea_popescu: "we're bigger than you, stfu"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34300 @ 0.00062973 = 21.5997 BTC [-] {4}
asciilifeform: what was the matter, somebody spread rumour that their shitter wasn't chemically-pure gold but engineering-grade ?
mircea_popescu: i dunno, something about oversalted leberwurst.
asciilifeform: highest 4-star rating from restaurant reviewer << are there whorehouse reviewers? if not, why not ?
mircea_popescu: there are, yes.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> i dunno, something about oversalted leberwurst. << Also the shift from a menu one can get full eating to some sort of "trendy" tasting menu based on appetizers.
mircea_popescu: yeah you're probably right.
BingoBoingo: Reviewer wants to get full on their per diem
mircea_popescu: anyone saw "le grand restaurant" ? de funes, he orders... a radish.
BingoBoingo: Restaurant wants to milk every seat for max profit.
asciilifeform vaguely recalls an article, last year, re: a u.s. restaurant for moneyed fools that served lion, tiger, etc. - which went under supposedly on account of a review site claiming it was open on weekends when in fact not
mircea_popescu: who'dwant to eat cat ?!
asciilifeform: a) chinese b) idiots c) who even knows what species they actually cooked
mircea_popescu: incidentally, anyone saw i vitelloni ?
mircea_popescu: great fellini film, esp for closing scene.
asciilifeform has wondered why carnivorous sea life is perfectly edible, while land animals, not so much
mircea_popescu: what's your definition of carnivorous sea life /
asciilifeform: fish eating fish
asciilifeform: etc
mircea_popescu: afaik no sea creature eats venison
mircea_popescu: well...
asciilifeform: lol
asciilifeform: the standard hypothesis for 'why carnivores aren't good for the table' is bioaccumulation
mircea_popescu: of plant poison
asciilifeform: which is just as much of a fact in the sea as on land
mircea_popescu: (really, all plants are pretty much poison standing)
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: no, it's not, because not same poisons.,
asciilifeform: sea plant life less poisonous? that would do it
mircea_popescu: not less. more, but differently.
asciilifeform recalls pathologically extreme case of this, 'shellfish toxin'
mircea_popescu: bioaccumulation (heavy metals, etc) is much more a concern for fish eating than otherwise.
mircea_popescu: however, the meat doesn't TASTE bad.
mircea_popescu: taste being, of course, an evolutionary mechanism.
asciilifeform: lead, famously, supposedly tastes great.
mircea_popescu: http://www.ab.ust.hk/hseo/tips/ch/ch005.htm
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ADeMON )
mircea_popescu: HF is sickly sweet too.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=22-08-2014#804607 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 22-08-2014 02:36:18; asciilifeform: 'The smell of diborane is known to a few experimenters, but they cannot tell us what it is.'
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: it's not THAT bad is it ?
asciilifeform: pediwik claims 'sickly sweet smell'
asciilifeform: wonder if 'sweet' is the default for own-meat-dissolving taste.
mircea_popescu: hm, it is often reported... seems poisons are either bitter or sweet. rarely you hear "salty"
asciilifeform: 'best' poison - colourless, tasteless
asciilifeform: (has anyone, incidentally, described the taste of Po-84 ?)
BingoBoingo: sweet is probably common in poisons because of the large class of poisons that are almost biologically useful...
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo might also be because of particular interference with gustative nerve arrangmenets - many are neurotoxins
BingoBoingo: Of course, and many of those are almost sugars.
mircea_popescu: yeah.
mircea_popescu: diboron's almost ethanol huh :D
BingoBoingo: Yeah. Also there any number of poisonous alcohols more similar to various sugars than ethanol.
mats: http://user.informatik.uni-goettingen.de/~fyamagu/pdfs/2014-oakland.pdf
assbot: 404 Not Found ... ( http://bit.ly/1ADhy6M )
mircea_popescu: "MP is such a pompous prick. I hope he chokes on his pansy lemonade flavored pop sickle stick."
mircea_popescu: bwahaha
mircea_popescu: isn't it fascinating how deeply i bothar these ppls ?
gabriel_laddel: I've shown several people in Silly Con valley the rabits article. Fear flashes through their eyes and they hand the laptop back without reading it all the way through.
gabriel_laddel: I think, all of the sudden they understand on some level that this era of prosperous morons is coming to a close.
mircea_popescu: lol interesting.
mircea_popescu: i guess at some point it'll come to pass that someone makes a tumblr, TFWT.
mircea_popescu: Their Face When Trilema
mircea_popescu: same principle, give laptop over but wiht camera on.
gabriel_laddel: lol. twould be more entertaining than all of the bezzle 'media' output circa 2014
mircea_popescu: i guess it'd depend for whom
mircea_popescu: but i suspect it'd amuse me
undata: hehehe TFWT
undata: due to the random article upon loading the homepage I am careful where I pull up trilema
undata: could be tits
BingoBoingo: Or Buttcoin, or fried chicken
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel wait, wasn't the rabbit article in romanian ? what're they to read ?!
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: this is how I know they've not read it. I tell them it is Romanian and pull up google translate in another tab, show them the keybinding to switch tabs.
gabriel_laddel: E.G., one fellow sees pictures - hands back.
gabriel_laddel: some of the luzly ones read... re-read... re-read and eventually ask "Does he hate women or...?" (Not rabbits article)
gabriel_laddel: people fucking flip over slaves licking up their own vomit.
BingoBoingo: How else did Rome handle the vomit problem?
gabriel_laddel: Har, remembering: Girl tells me she wants to crowdfund art. I link to trilema.com/what-is-art? She never responds.
gabriel_laddel: Etherum guy tells me that he wants a "Holarchy" instead of an explicit hierarchy cause trilema articles are scary.
gabriel_laddel: Me kicked out of place I'm staying - being called "the next hitler"
gabriel_laddel: Me: "so what do you think of MPEX"? He: "What they do is illegal!! You can't take money from investors in the united states without explicit approval of USG!"
gabriel_laddel: "but bitcoin isn't money yet?"
gabriel_laddel: etc.
BingoBoingo: Money isn't Bitcoin Yet
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu is starting to understand why people pay for credit
mircea_popescu: s
mircea_popescu: btw, the vomit thing actually happened. girl had to eat catfood, out of bowl, no hands. long hair, one hair ended up in there, she had to eat it, it made her puke, she had to eat that, which she did. one strange half hour.
BingoBoingo: I honestly don't know what can scare Obama more than that.
mircea_popescu: why obama specfically ?
mircea_popescu: and what's holarchy lol
BingoBoingo: That dedication to task which he can't get from his acolytpes
mircea_popescu: ah. there's a fine reason to prefer women. if well trained... hard to match.
gabriel_laddel: does anyone have recommendations for books on Russia's "roaring nineties"?
BingoBoingo: http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2015/01/08/teixobactin_a_new_antibiotic_from_a_new_platform.php
assbot: Teixobactin: A New Antibiotic From a New Platform?. In the Pipeline: ... ( http://bit.ly/1w8q093 )
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo wow.
BingoBoingo: Who woulda thunk there's be worthwhile shit in stuff that doesn't culture as cheaply as possible?
mircea_popescu: as the guy aptly points out, it's never been a better time to be a biochemist.
mircea_popescu: i am telling you, wetware before any hard physics breakthrough.
BingoBoingo: I mean the past century has mostly been about refining tools while methods for using tools atrophied. A lot of potential in just... pointing those tools somethere else in an informed way instead of doing the microscope hammer thing.
mircea_popescu: mhm
mircea_popescu: As an aside, if you're outside the field, you might wonder why it's worth working so hard to find natural products when we have so many synthetic organic chemists in the world cranking out new compounds. One big reason is the ridiculous, insane hugeness of chemical space: the number of possible compounds at or under the molecular weight of teixobactin defies description, and I mean that in a completely literal sense. T
mircea_popescu: here are not enough resources on Earth, or in our entire solar system, to do enough organic synthesis to make any noticeable dent in that array. The idea of having compounds that bind to things like Lipid II is a good one, but they're going to have to be large compounds, and exploring that space is daunting.
mircea_popescu: heh.
BingoBoingo: It's basically like good number space for Keys.
BingoBoingo: And why the distributed protein folding stuff is mostly a noisemaking lottery machine.
mircea_popescu: looks like what, 1.2k - 1.3k molar mass ?
BingoBoingo: 1242
mircea_popescu: say about 1k carbons, each with 4 valences.
mircea_popescu: wait srsly ?!
mircea_popescu: ahahahaha! god i win so much.
BingoBoingo: Yeah. Lighter than Vancomycin's 1449 as a further illustration of the sheer size of the space.
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 4 ** 1000
gribble: Error: The answer exceeded 1.79769313486e+308 or so.
mircea_popescu: not bad.
mircea_popescu: very quick and dirty "all carbons" evaluation, but still, as a general hint
BingoBoingo: Right. Teixobactin prolly isn't going to get used much orally aside from GI tract stuff like c Diff... If it targets c Diff at all.
mircea_popescu: i think the main point is, you won't be able to take a shit in the forest without hitting one of these chips soon enough
thestringpuller: holy shit comatose is me
BingoBoingo: Yeah
BingoBoingo: Also hard to say when those chips are comming to toilets.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo apparently c diff is particularly vuln
BingoBoingo: Ah, didn't see that part.
mircea_popescu: b anthracis also.
mircea_popescu: check it out, anti-antrhax gel!
BingoBoingo: Hopefully it holds together well in DMSO
mircea_popescu: also tb and yes, mrsa.
mircea_popescu: and pneumonia. they found gold, what.
BingoBoingo: Pretty much just hooked one of those asteroids full of gold and smashed kansas with it.
BingoBoingo: And yet farmed morel mushrooms are a pipe dream
ben_vulpes: does anyone know what precisely the "private key" dumped by bitcoin is? is that the secret that can be used with EC_KEY_regenerate_key to regenerate a key?
mircea_popescu: apparently very quick clearance tho
thestringpuller: It's 0 C outside right now, but 28 c in b-a
thestringpuller: i kinda hate you right now MP
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes for lulz : https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/issues/650
assbot: CKey::SetSecret BIGNUM leak · Issue #650 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1wKf8zf )
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller i tell you, air conditioning blowing on one's ballsac post coitally is one of those refined pleasures of civilisation
mircea_popescu: like hot baths.
ben_vulpes: saw it, was too tired to even muster a chuckle
mircea_popescu: but otherwise yes, it should be the priv key.
mircea_popescu: you work it to get the pubkey and then the address.
mircea_popescu: https://bitcointa.lk/threads/ecdsa-in-python.24166/ also instructive, fro mthe days before btctalk became tardstalk.
assbot: ECDSA in python | Bitcointa.lk ... ( http://bit.ly/1wKfB4G )
ben_vulpes: is there a distinction between "the priv key" vs the "secret" used to regenerate a key?
punkman: ben_vulpes: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/v0.5.3/src/key.h#L160
assbot: bitcoin/key.h at v0.5.3 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1wKfMwO )
mircea_popescu: he has it
ben_vulpes: https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/blob/v0.5.3/src/key.h#L214 << thanks, punkman
assbot: bitcoin/key.h at v0.5.3 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1wKg1b7 )
ben_vulpes: *sigh*
ben_vulpes: how did i not see this until now
punkman: this c++ is hard to read
punkman: anyone looked into that cbitcoin thing? http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=12-02-2014#497342 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 12-02-2014 01:35:50; jurov: prolly i confused it with this: https://github.com/MatthewLM/cbitcoin/
thestringpuller: punkman: that's Boost C++ for you. Dunno why Satoshi used it...
punkman: oh even has a website http://cbitcoin.com/
assbot: An Open-Source Bitcoin Library in C ... ( http://bit.ly/1wKgIBc )
thestringpuller: it is much easier to read
mircea_popescu: punkman ancient bitcoin-in-c thing i thought was abandoned cca 2012 ?
BingoBoingo: http://www.gomerblog.com/2015/01/ativan/
assbot: The Pen Is Mightier Than the Sword, But This Ativan Tho | GomerBlog ... ( http://bit.ly/1AKbJH6 )
punkman: mircea_popescu: seems recently updated
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27900 @ 0.00061546 = 17.1713 BTC [-] {5}
mircea_popescu: from what i recasll the guy was strugling with memory leaks and other such joyspots.
mircea_popescu: wasn't at any point ready, looking for help.
ben_vulpes: !up Vexual
ben_vulpes: http://vimeo.com/114761496 << repost?
assbot: The Cool Kids love Erlang - Gustav Simonsson, Henning Diedrich - Berlin Erlang Factory Lite on Vimeo ... ( http://bit.ly/1wKhG0x )
Vexual: really?
Vexual: who?\
ben_vulpes: couldn't be, it's only three weeks old
ben_vulpes: and Vexual found it
BingoBoingo: http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-announce&m=142073477418451&w=2
assbot: 'OpenNTPD 5.7p1 Released' - MARC ... ( http://bit.ly/1AKf5d6 )
Vexual: yeah boii
Vexual: also on oil...
Vexual: ssay you're an opec produced making bank
BingoBoingo: This Cook fellow finding OpenBSD is one of the best things to happen to linux in a decade.
Vexual: your secondary business is the world economy, and theres no exceptions
Vexual: sure as shit cheap oil aint about making exactly 11 texases fit into australia, so whats left over?
BingoBoingo: !up Vexual
Vexual: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tnbcuzQB30 >prolly a repost
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11807 @ 0.00060584 = 7.1532 BTC [-] {2}
cazalla: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=919414.msg10104284#msg10104284 180 coins.. gone, kept his blockchain.info passwords etc in gmail by looks of it
assbot: 180 Coins Stolen From my wallet 1GpUcrJ1Zo6ZJWgw7HQT7nADijY5a3dcCh ... ( http://bit.ly/1IcoD1C )
Vexual: same old shit caz
Vexual: he prolly used his email password on the latest scam fucker website
cazalla: yeah but think of all the machines they trojan only to find like 0.1 btc
cazalla: what a pay day for this guy
Vexual: as rime goes by, stealing bitcoin will feel like a really bad idea
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23850 @ 0.00061247 = 14.6074 BTC [+]
Vexual: you really dont know what judiciary you might be dealing with
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8856 @ 0.00061247 = 5.424 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9300 @ 0.00059909 = 5.5715 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19493 @ 0.00063577 = 12.3931 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12207 @ 0.0006423 = 7.8406 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8856 @ 0.00064668 = 5.727 BTC [+]
mats: http://travisgoodspeed.blogspot.com/2013/07/hillbilly-tracking-of-low-earth-orbit.html
assbot: Travis Goodspeed's Blog: Hillbilly Tracking of Low Earth Orbit Satellites ... ( http://bit.ly/14jvV4o )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14100 @ 0.0006509 = 9.1777 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15337 @ 0.00064668 = 9.9181 BTC [-]
mats: http://youtu.be/rz0SNEFZ8h0
assbot: DEF CON 22 - Shahar Tal - I Hunt TR-069 Admins: Pwning ISPs Like a Boss - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1AKVKsg )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9900 @ 0.00062671 = 6.2044 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.00061925 = 6.0687 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19596 @ 0.00062162 = 12.1813 BTC [+] {2}
fluffypony: lol
fluffypony: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2s1ye7/andreas_antonopoulos_is_shoadowbanned/
assbot: Andreas Antonopoulos is shoadow-banned! : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/14J9GFx )
BigBitz: He's an idiot.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5787 @ 0.0006127 = 3.5457 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2528 @ 0.0008899 = 2.2497 BTC [+]
midnightmagic: what is a shadowban?
assbot: Anduck +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0
mats: comments are visible to just the poster
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24000 @ 0.00060485 = 14.5164 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25683 @ 0.00064222 = 16.4941 BTC [+]
decimation: http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/41850/title/New-Antibiotic-from-Soil-Bacteria/ << re: Teixobactin
assbot: New Antibiotic from Soil Bacteria | The Scientist Magazine® ... ( http://bit.ly/1B4sUly )
decimation: “The bacteriology community needs to get away from culturing bacteria on agar plates, because this will not lead to new antibiotics.”
decimation: it seems to me biology has regressed while becoming infatuated with computing
kakobrekla: http://www.coindesk.com/analysis-bitstamp-hacker-stolen-additional-1-75-million/
assbot: Analysis: Bitstamp Hacker Almost Stole Additional $1.75 Million ... ( http://bit.ly/14kfGEa )
kakobrekla: lol
kakobrekla: i missed that
decimation: asciilifeform: re: jaron lanier << his "open source is stealing the future" idea seems rather silly
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3129 @ 0.00064967 = 2.0328 BTC [+]
BigBitz: did Bitstamp confirm the attack vector?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17200 @ 0.00064967 = 11.1743 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6717 @ 0.00063549 = 4.2686 BTC [-] {2}
punkman: https://github.com/romanz/amodem
assbot: romanz/amodem · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/17x6dvu )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34850 @ 0.00060123 = 20.9529 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16020 @ 0.00061732 = 9.8895 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: cazalla that thread's a fine example of why bitcoin "needs to be more accessible". so that more people who have no business running a computer can tell their friends about how bad bitcoin is.
mircea_popescu: "Imagine if we poured 1.7 trillion dollars a year into ending aging instead of satiating Tea Party fucks need to bomb brown people?" and stuff.
mircea_popescu: pretty good.
mircea_popescu: http://travisgoodspeed.blogspot.com.ar/2013/07/hillbilly-tracking-of-low-earth-orbit.html << ha cool shit!
assbot: Travis Goodspeed's Blog: Hillbilly Tracking of Low Earth Orbit Satellites ... ( http://bit.ly/17x9aMz )
decimation: that amodem project is interesting
punkman: decimation, there's also an electrum plugin for it
decimation: in theory it could be used on shortwave, if you had the hardware for it
decimation: 32 kHz seems excessively wide though
punkman: probably need to go lower if not using cable
mircea_popescu: midnightmagic: what is a shadowban? << graham came up with this brilliant "let's ban users but not tell them" on the theory that users are idiots and won't notice anyway.
mircea_popescu: unsurprisingly, this never worked before reddit, but it works splendidly there.
punkman: decimation: see also https://github.com/kamalmostafa/minimodem/
assbot: kamalmostafa/minimodem · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/17x9Zou )
mircea_popescu: probably has to do with how, to quote altman, "It’s interesting to note that during my very brief tenure, reddit added more users than Hacker News has in total."
fluffypony: it's so that the spammers don't realise they're banned
mircea_popescu: because nobody has a watcher ip ?
decimation: minimodem is a much more robust waveform, but would transfer more slowly
decimation: it ought to work over crap audio channels though
mircea_popescu: decimation i don't like it, because : as a way to transfer data between the two computers where there's a cable, it's stupid. even serial protocol is better, but we have tcp etc. as an airgapped solution is stupid, because sound.
mircea_popescu: the correct airgap solution is optics.
mircea_popescu: anyway, i imagine it's just some "play around with computor" thing, not seriously proposed as a solution to anything
decimation: agreed.
decimation: although I would point out that you could use this without cables, but through an air interface
kakobrekla: qr guns are too limited.
mircea_popescu: sound is too easy to overhear.
kakobrekla not for sound.
mircea_popescu: qr guns easier to shield ; you can use an optoelement w/e it's called, if you wish.
decimation: the 'adult' solution is a one-way fiber link
mircea_popescu: hack them out of optic mice or w/e.
mircea_popescu: unrelatedly, /me is still reeling over a shocking ad hoc test where he discovered that a widespread inability to distinguish internet and web does not apparent;y prevent young'uns from commenting on...
mircea_popescu: well it's not clear what, "either" is improper. "commenting on nothing while misrepresenting themselves as talking about one or the other."
kakobrekla has a serial cable with a buffer with visual confirmation of the data and it does not need to be plugged to both computers at same time
decimation: mircea_popescu: what was your 'ad hoc test'?
mircea_popescu: i call it the moruzov discovery. check it out yourself, see what % of authors using both terms in the same text display an awareness of their meaning.
mircea_popescu: decimation asked a buncha "hackers"
mircea_popescu: pop quiz lol.
decimation: are we chatting on the web now?
mircea_popescu: such q's, right.
decimation: kakobrekla: yeah, serial works too, and one can clip out the return path if desired
decimation: plus lots of cheap gear exists to inspect serial connections
mircea_popescu: "would the web go away if there were no links between websites ?" "no because they'd still be on the internet" prolly the best one.
mircea_popescu: words are apparently brands, which is to say names. they don't need to mean anything anymore than popescu needs to mean something. (which it does, but who cares)
kakobrekla: decimation i have put a mcu + lcd screen + sd card mid cable. and some buttons. probably doesnt need an explanation.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla but if you could be bothered to make a blogpost like the guy's with the dish...
kakobrekla: yeah too bad i dont have a blog.
decimation: there's a guy who is much more advanced in messing around with satellites: http://usa-satcom.com/
assbot: USA-Satcom | Monitoring worldwide communications on HF through Microwaves… ... ( http://bit.ly/17xcN5g )
decimation: he wrote his own software to decode Imarsat streams
mircea_popescu: yeah.
mircea_popescu: is that legal ?
decimation: more or less. in the us, it is generally safe to listen to anything that isn't encrypted
decimation: even if you decrypt it, it might not be illegal as long as you don't disclose it
mircea_popescu: i recall that's how it was for a while
mircea_popescu: imagined it prolly changed.
mircea_popescu: (used to be it was legal even if encrypted, if you disclose to the media)
decimation: http://www.fcc.gov/guides/interception-and-divulgence-radio-communications << usg provides a useful 'help' page
assbot: Interception and Divulgence of Radio Communications | FCC.gov ... ( http://bit.ly/17xdgnK )
mircea_popescu: decimation so i can't find a stealing the future reference re one jaron lanier. any link or anything ?
decimation: yeah I think it was from a podcast. let me dig
decimation: http://spectrum.ieee.org/podcast/computing/networks/jaron-lanier-were-being-enslaved-by-free-information
assbot: Jaron Lanier: We’re Being Enslaved by Free Information - IEEE Spectrum ... ( http://bit.ly/17xdQlC )
mircea_popescu: lol divulgence, like indulgence. regular english flexion! who knew!
mircea_popescu: aty
mircea_popescu: "Jaron Lanier is one of the world’s great polymaths. He’s a computer scientist, composer, visual artist, and the author of a new book, Who Owns the Future?, published last month "
mircea_popescu: perhaps they dunno what polymath means ?
mircea_popescu: decimation ok this discussion is too retarded to read, i threw up a bunch of warnings but a critical error at "So in terms of networks, what happens is, if you have people all competing for their place to be sorted by a single central hub, then you get a power law."
decimation: lol yeah
mircea_popescu: this is exactly incorrect. power laws only result when the group is decentralizedly sorting the group. only then.
mircea_popescu: which is why the internet is when we firs saw them.
mircea_popescu: regardless of this, i do agree with the original statement that the particular way in which intellectual property is handled today makes the world richer rather than poorer.
decimation: his basic point is: if we have free wikipedias, who is going to pay people like me to 'be creative'?
mircea_popescu: specifically because by buying and selling stuff like watsapp or instagram or whatever as if they were representative of something they're merely SYMBOLIC of (their user's aggregated intellectual work) we're in essence going about carring handles of suitcases
mircea_popescu: and stories of how great our various wardrobes are
mircea_popescu: all nude.
mircea_popescu: decimation it's not as bad an argument as it seems.
decimation: yeah, it kinda connects with your rms discussion over the last days
mircea_popescu: it's not necessarily or striclty a matter of "pay" as in, the obvious direct "gimme 20 bux i need for mcdonalds".
decimation: by they way there's a typo in your RMS article: there is an "RSM"
mircea_popescu: payment and generally managing capital flux is first and foremost a matter of direction.
mircea_popescu: suppose nobody bothers to manage (ie, even TELL kids when they're saying something smart or stupid) because everyone that could be that is too busy attenting the teacher's unions meetings where they discuss which class is more valuable.
mircea_popescu: well... no class will be fucking valuable like that!
mircea_popescu: why is reddit so fucking stupid ? "because it has stupid people in it" no. not because of that, stupid people are universally present and as inert as dirt.
mircea_popescu: it's because the smart people that should be scoring them left their spots in the local hierarchy, because "better things to do" and now a retard like altman is left herding them around, as best he can.
mircea_popescu: it's as if every teacher in the hs left to go attend pravda readings, and the children are now stuck with the cleanning ladies.
mircea_popescu: how is this not making everyone poorer ?
mircea_popescu: decimation fixed typo ty
mircea_popescu: " i do agree with the original statement that the particular way in which intellectual property is handled today makes the world richer rather than poorer." << meant it exactly backwards. poorer rather than richer.
decimation: so in summary, wikipedia is the result of a bunch of smart people without direction?
mircea_popescu: no. it's the result of a bunch of stupid people without any sort of feedback or signal.
mircea_popescu: "everyone can edit it", because "nobody is here to manage it" sounds great only on the surface. but in essence, what it means is that "nobody intelligent agrees this is worth doing"
decimation: actually, they only get 'positive' feedback in the sense that they have now edited X+1 articles
mircea_popescu: so they have to backport hierarchy into it under the cover of darkness, so to speak
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1457 @ 0.00086046 = 1.2537 BTC [-] {24}
mircea_popescu: decimation but that's not feedback. how is it feedback ?
mircea_popescu: then they have the problem that "google has so much money, we don't!" well... of course ?
mircea_popescu: "well if you all made the same decision you'll be poor too and there wouldn't be a difference to make us sad"
mircea_popescu: "sure. fuck you."
decimation: what do you call feedback if it is disconnected from the circuit?
mircea_popescu: that's pretty much the wikipedia-side of the web2.0 utopia (and it has nothingm to do with o'reilly.)
mircea_popescu: decimation quite.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2138 @ 0.00085012 = 1.8176 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: having someone to say "hey, this is great" "omfg that's fucking stupid" is the very essence of economy. you can disagree with them, or pick a different one, or create special methods for their working or measuring or announcing or whatever, it's endless. but if you remove it altogether, creating essentially a flat surface instead of a 3d shape, you WILL be poorer.
mircea_popescu: unavoidable. you literally chose to be poor, that's strictly it.
mircea_popescu: contrairiwise, the first step towards not being quite so poor is "giving people control of the fruits of their own work", aka not taxing them 100% (what is social media but an experimental regime of 100% tax ?)
mircea_popescu: once that happens, people naturally start to control the work, and hierarchy forms, and value springs from it, and prosperity is everywhere.
decimation: there is some 'backdoor' literature that demonstrates this point in the us
mircea_popescu: but an imaginary "social media platform" where value is UGS but all work is somehow, magically owned by the name, which is being bought and sold as *the thing it stands for*... well ?
mircea_popescu: the only possible way that goes is myspace.
mircea_popescu: people of course like to pretend mysapce is a circumstance rather than a fundamental.
decimation: http://bowlingalone.com/
assbot: Bowling Alone ... ( http://bit.ly/17xhfRu )
mircea_popescu: amusingly, this "thing as its name" approach is very much empowered by legal abstractions such the corporation,
mircea_popescu: however, the mechanisms that ensured value actually moves with the name there aren't present here.
mircea_popescu: suitcase handles, i tell you.
decimation: Charles Murray writes on this topic too: http://www.aei.org/publication/america-isnt-polarized-politics-polarized-responsibility/
assbot: America isn’t polarized about politics but responsibility ... ( http://bit.ly/1tX8GE1 )
decimation: "So that’s my working hypothesis: it’s not merely that politics is an epiphenomenon and that deeper personal qualities account for what we call political polarization, but that one specific dimension—our respective attitudes toward personal responsibility—accounts for a huge proportion of the polarization all by itself."
mircea_popescu: that i can see.
mircea_popescu: fundamentally, some people wish to be told WHAT they did is right and WHAT is wrong. and perhaps why. perhaps. half the time maybe they care.
mircea_popescu: some people enjoy trying to puzzle this out. WHETHER it is one or the other.
mircea_popescu: these are very different sorts, and the classical representation of man holds him to be equally both.
thestringpuller: it's fucking 4 c here while mircea_popescu gets to chill in 32 c
mircea_popescu: that's what the "voter" is supposed to be. but ... he isn't.
thestringpuller: i need to burn more shit
mircea_popescu: decimation the much decried "penitentiary industrial system" doesn't exist because evil white aliens from alpha centauri opress the world into doing it.
mircea_popescu: it exists naturally, because it provides for a need, and it is an actual social solution to a social problem.
mircea_popescu: not the best ? perhaps. but a nude statement of unbestness is as useful as an aeroplane made out of air.
mircea_popescu: gotta have better.
decimation: indeed. it's a retarded version of classical slavery really
mircea_popescu: it is.
mircea_popescu: "oh, lincoln ended slavery"
mircea_popescu: no lol, he didn't. you can't "end" things that exist.
mircea_popescu: they'll end, when they run out.
mircea_popescu: "the civil war was an important fashion battle in the manner of shackles to be used"
decimation: yes, the religious fanatics went to war to make the government-stamped shackles the fashion
mircea_popescu: because "centralize all the things" was the fashionable motto at the time of the manifest destiny and so on.
mircea_popescu: now obviously the opposite is the fashionable motto.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller my daiquiri salutes you.
decimation: it is too bad the french were to fucktarded to keep their lands in north america. it would be interesting to know the history of the Bourbon West
mircea_popescu: but essentially... they didn't care.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1728 @ 0.00083501 = 1.4429 BTC [-] {6}
mircea_popescu: it's by and large easier to not give a shit. that's why all divorces succeed, and all independence movements succeed, and why imperialism and colonialism and so on are all doomed.
mircea_popescu: because it is in all times and places cheaper to NOT carry other people's actions in your mind than to do so.
decimation: yeah that's a good point
mircea_popescu: this is why it's cheaper to "publish" if you're twitter than if you're the [classical] new york times, and why the current nyt is twitter in another color scheme.
mircea_popescu: it's... damned... cheaper.
mircea_popescu: obviously that means it's not better, because that's how it gets to be cheaper.
thestringpuller: d00d, just read updates on this thread
thestringpuller: how did hanbot not have an anurism?!?
mircea_popescu: "but people have a voice". orly ? turns out people don't want a voice, especially not in a fucking void. they really want signal and feedback more than they want voice.
thestringpuller: 2-3 years of this?
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller ask her lol. i dunno.
mircea_popescu: women are resilient ? boobage amortises ?
thestringpuller: ;;later tell hanbot how did you not have a stroke while in the trenches of super retardism?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
decimation: perhaps that's another good replacement phrase for "chronic kinglessness": "the people want for feedback"
mircea_popescu: "so they want signal and feedback that's ok, we'll add some buttons and call them feedback" herp.
thestringpuller: "We want free things. Make it all free! We don't want to pay for nice things! We are entitled to the world cause our parents told us so!"
mircea_popescu: "Some people have to have a world of evidence before they can come anywhere in the neighborhood of believing anything; but for me, when a man tells me that he has "seen the engravings which are upon the plates," and not only that, but an angel was there at the time, and saw him see them, and probably took his receipt for it, I am very far on the road to conviction, no matter whether I ever heard of that man before or n
mircea_popescu: ot, and even if I do not know the name of the angel, or his nationality either."
mircea_popescu: clemens, centuries ago. "i don't care what people say that i don't know". duh.
mircea_popescu: reddit has to shadowban users because spam. bitcoin-assets does not. because wot works and "Feedback" doesn't ? awww, who knew.
decimation: who could have predicted?
mircea_popescu: experiment can be carried out in absolutely any class. start marking the papers accurately.
mircea_popescu: out of 30 kids, 27 will fucking riot, 3 will buckle down and do fucking homework. that they don't strictly have to do.
mircea_popescu: don't do that, all 30 kids are undistinguishable. up until, of course, they run against feynman's nature, that which can't be fooled.
mircea_popescu: at which point, suddenly, yes. "who could have predicted".
mircea_popescu: (accurately, of course, means nothing objective. accurately in this context strictly means "so nobody gets a full A half the time". because you're looking for flaws, not to prop self esteem.)
thestringpuller: well reddit wants more users without having to pay for anything
thestringpuller: if user makes too many post too soon, they lose money
thestringpuller: wihtout them the users*
mircea_popescu: they lose jack. i suspect it's merely a fetish.
thestringpuller: perhaps. reddit does have a ridiculously hard time paying the bills with their own money.
thestringpuller: they need big brothers and parents to help pay their way.
mircea_popescu: wonder why. lol.
thestringpuller: this is why I think the ycombinator "seed funding" thing is a bit non-sensical.
mircea_popescu: why ?
thestringpuller: it gets this young people thinking "Yo, if I have a good idea people will pay for me to live, even if it makes no money"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23500 @ 0.00059946 = 14.0873 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: how's it a good idea then ?
thestringpuller: "good idea"
thestringpuller: lets say "good idea that's really bad idea, but is dressed up to look like good idea somehow and fools people"
thestringpuller: :P
mircea_popescu: a good idea that makes no money is a bit like a norwegian blue that's pining for the fjords. beautiful plumage...
thestringpuller: it's just mind boggling these children in suits feel so entitled.
thestringpuller: maybe it's how hanbot put it, its "Due to a horrible accident involving, perhaps, various radioactive equipment including a twinkie"
mircea_popescu: suits comingback in fashion ?
mircea_popescu: i thought it was all tshirts and how do you call those african footwear things ?
thestringpuller: crocs?
thestringpuller: LOL
mircea_popescu: flip flops
thestringpuller: ;;google homeless entrepreneurs san francisco
gribble: Maker Movement Rescues San Francisco Tech Entrepreneur: <http://www.govtech.com/education/Maker-Movement-Rescues-San-Francisco-Tech-Entreprenuer.html>; Homeless In San Francisco Get Marketing Makeover, Clever Signs ...: <http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2014/07/03/homeless-in-san-francisco-get-marketing-makeover-clever-signs-increase-panhandling-donations-amuse-drivers- (1 more message)
thestringpuller: i read a story somewhere that there is a whole slew of entrepreneurs in SF that are homeless
thestringpuller: running their business out of their cars and stuff
midnightmagic: lol @ shadowban
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller i wonder if there's many whores working out of their car in sf.
thestringpuller: whores do real work, so I'm pretty sure they have housing
mircea_popescu: it's quite common in yurp actually.
mircea_popescu: girl and her wv beetle or w/e.
asciilifeform: kakobrekla's serial buffer shuttle << good project. and he said enough such that anyone who wants, can build!
mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I95gITtKgwU
assbot: Silent Farewell - BIZARRE Sketch with John Byner - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1AMguzS )
thestringpuller: lol jon matonis randomly followed me on twitter
thestringpuller: dunno if I'm a target now...
danielpbarron: me too
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72100 @ 0.00059655 = 43.0113 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72100 @ 0.00059655 = 43.0113 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: "i have to tell you miss lopez, you seem to have caught the egyptian flu."
mircea_popescu: "what ?!"
mircea_popescu: "you're going to be a mommy."
thestringpuller: danielpbarron: "keep your enemies closer?" lol
danielpbarron: he also followed davout, cazalla, saifedean, BingoBoingo
thestringpuller: oh boi. the lines are being drawn.
thestringpuller: my first gig as a war profiteer!
thestringpuller: i wonder if he'll make some kind of contact, "Yo guise, stop stirring up the pot. You're making our hijacking job too hard."
mircea_popescu: kinda lulzy he wasn't following none of these b4 ?
mircea_popescu: derp.
danielpbarron: https://twitter.com/BarryShilbert/status/554281218590904320
assbot: I’ve now been unbanned from reddit. The drama is over.
danielpbarron: .@aantonop Being banned by Reddit is almost as worse as @rogerkver not being allowed in the US
mircea_popescu: "Good permission-less distribution of coins is not possible without some inflation, that's exactly what's happening. Only private and semi-private systems have all shares distributed to stakeholders in one go, money don't work that way, sorry."
mircea_popescu: derp.
mircea_popescu: people with no money expressing views asa to how money works. because clearly... they;'d know.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron almost as worse ? wtf is wrong with these college grads!
thestringpuller: it's like a secretary telling me I need a heart transplant because he saw it on TV
thestringpuller: guess we still haven't left the ages of people wanting to play bitcoin banker
thestringpuller: d00d this shadowban drama is nuts
thestringpuller: people are like "Yo he broke the rules but didn't know. Don't punish him too hard, just give him a warning."
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron "This whole hard fork drama is part of the bigger brain-damaged notion that Bitcoin isn't about money." << you actuyally have an excellent point here.
thestringpuller: What the fuck happened to ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it.
mircea_popescu: the way "embrace, extend and extinguish" is dressed up in foundation/power ranger internal communication is, "to maximize bitcoin the ideal approach is to not define bitcoin any particular way". this neatly matches their refusal to specify the protocol, and its direct implication is
mircea_popescu: that should tomorrow tide agree to rebrand its detergent as "bitcoin", then it will be okay if there's n omore bitcoin. because bitcoin has no identity but is merely a name, and since the empty name is "more widely used" the project is nominally "more successful"
mircea_popescu: this directly dovetails into the "going around naked holding just the handles of missing suitcases, telling each other stories about wonderous wardrobes" point discussed earlier.
mircea_popescu: and as to the question of "how was gavin turned", the answer is obvious : cultural immersion. he happens to be part of the problem, much like if you put ximenez in charge of the supreme court you'll get burnings at the stake out of the legal process irrespective what the laws say.
thestringpuller: what is the other side of the problem?
thestringpuller: its like the CIA turning jihadist into CIA assets.
thestringpuller: his early posts are relatively sane
mircea_popescu: Confirmed total: 21122 BTC sheeit it crossed 20kdidn't evne notice.
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 21122 / 13347
gribble: 1.58252790889
mircea_popescu: still over 1btc o.o
mircea_popescu: http://globalvoicesonline.org/2013/08/05/hong-kong-sex-workers-forced-to-pay-for-good-reviews-online/
assbot: Hong Kong Sex Workers Forced to Pay for Good Reviews Online · Global Voices ... ( http://bit.ly/1BWlpv7 )
mircea_popescu: heh. airbnb is good, and the cab thing is good, but this is bad. the difference ?
mircea_popescu: well... silicon valley got ED.
mircea_popescu: someone should 'revolutionize' whoredom.
ben_vulpes: disrupt the whore-er-archy!
mircea_popescu never thought much of the average pimp
mircea_popescu: there's something about that market that always selects for ineptitude
mircea_popescu: maybe because a pimp's essentially an actor playing the cuckold role, i dunno.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 5200 @ 0.00083509 = 4.3425 BTC [-] {9}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 5198 @ 0.00083509 = 4.3408 BTC [-] {8}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 5164 @ 0.00083504 = 4.3121 BTC [-] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 4927 @ 0.000835 = 4.114 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13549 @ 0.00062311 = 8.4425 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13549 @ 0.00062311 = 8.4425 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13549 @ 0.00062311 = 8.4425 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13549 @ 0.00062311 = 8.4425 BTC [+]
jurov: mircea_popescu: when the fork hits the fan, will you allow us to withdraw our part of gavincoins from mpex?
jurov: or you plan to sell them all yourself?
danielpbarron: no private key, no coin :p
kakobrekla: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/550297212769402881 ; http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-02-2014#506252 ☝︎
assbot: Btw, we are actually working on a charger that automatically moves out from the wall & connects like a solid metal snake. For realz.
assbot: Logged on 16-02-2014 00:31:00; asciilifeform: 2 yrs. ago i figured out how to flex a fairly ordinary multi-conductor cable in an arbitrary spot, at an arbitrary angle, purely electrically.
thestringpuller: http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2s2utx/the_hard_fork_missile_crisis/cnlqcd1 << dunno if semantics or what?
thestringpuller: cazalla: i'll submit revision to article if we can vet what he's saying.
cazalla: thestringpuller, sure, just need to get a few cuppas into me, look at all this drama i've woken up to because of you!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9924 @ 0.00059619 = 5.9166 BTC [-] {2}
cazalla: just approved a couple of comments on your article as well
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24609 @ 0.00059181 = 14.5639 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24609 @ 0.00059181 = 14.5639 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24609 @ 0.00059181 = 14.5639 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14685 @ 0.00058887 = 8.6476 BTC [-] {3}
thestringpuller: Ah. Didn't know everyone was gonna go Xbox live on each other - "I FUCKED YOUR MOM" and shit.
thestringpuller: ;;ident
gribble: Nick 'thestringpuller', with hostmask 'thestringpuller!~leflor@unaffiliated/thestringpuller', is not identified.
thestringpuller: ;;ident
gribble: Nick 'thestringpuller', with hostmask 'thestringpuller!~leflor@unaffiliated/thestringpuller', is identified as user 'thestringpuller', with GPG key id 0FF2943DA179E169, key fingerprint 6ACE36E786F39A4ADC4506DE0FF2943DA179E169, and bitcoin address None
thestringpuller: cazalla: this is my proposed edit (place at bottom of article)
cazalla: thestringpuller, email it or pm
thestringpuller: kay
danielpbarron: ;;rate railzand 1 https://twitter.com/railzand/status/553942112677691393
assbot: https://t.co/2iVjWSBkxsSo, Gavin, do you really want to lose little people their coins? Or could you just let it drop?
gribble: Error: For identification purposes, you must be authenticated to use the rating system.
danielpbarron stabs gribble
adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2015#973353 << grammar pls☝︎
assbot: Logged on 11-01-2015 19:18:11; danielpbarron: .@aantonop Being banned by Reddit is almost as worse as @rogerkver not being allowed in the US
adlai: so being a little anal retentive here... http://bitbet.us/bet/1093 is really just asking "does blockchain.info switch to gigacoin"
assbot: BitBet - Bitcoin main net block size to increase in 2015 :: 0.03 B (3%) on Yes, 1.07 B (97%) on No | closing in 10 months 1 week| weight: 97`257 (100`000 to 1) ... ( http://bit.ly/1BWtIam )
adlai: a better phrasing might talk about the block size of the highest difficulty chain at the resolution date
kakobrekla: i agree.
adlai can see himself holding opposite sides of such bets, depending on the exact timing of shenanigans
adlai: oh, this wording also leaves unspecified what happens if bc.i serve up both chains
adlai goes back to studying lojban
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4186 @ 0.00062311 = 2.6083 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4186 @ 0.00062311 = 2.6083 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4186 @ 0.00062311 = 2.6083 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4186 @ 0.00062311 = 2.6083 BTC [+]
decimation: adlai: are you going to try to speak lojban?
adlai: ie
decimation: heh
danielpbarron: Advertised sites are not endorsed by the Bitcoin Forum. They may be unsafe, untrustworthy, or illegal in your jurisdiction. Advertise here.
jurov: adlai actually if bc.i serves both then it will be YES
jurov: "is the gigablock visible on bc.i?" "yes but.." "not but"
jurov: *"no but"
kakobrekla: no but only butt.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5950 @ 0.00062342 = 3.7093 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5950 @ 0.00062342 = 3.7093 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5950 @ 0.00062342 = 3.7093 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5950 @ 0.00062342 = 3.7093 BTC [+] {2}
adlai: there are butts, this is not how the bet is worded... but this is the pot calling the kettle empty
jurov: and how else it is worded? do say
mircea_popescu: jurov i wasn't planning anything on that line
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller if you mean todd's comment, he is correct.
mircea_popescu: there never was a hard fork before. the march event was an observed fork which was resolved by abandoning the new chain.
jurov: would be quite a perk for mpex users... "liquidate" positions according to last month report and allow to withdraw all the gigacoin
jurov: but i see, it can't be predicted in advance
mircea_popescu: i was thinking more along the lines of a publicly accessible splitter service
mircea_popescu: pay some pool to provide it
mircea_popescu: "I agree a big discussion is necessary before changes are made, but we shouldn't act like a hard fork is somehow inherently an issue."
mircea_popescu: derp.
mircea_popescu: gavin does NOT have the authority to create a hard fork.
mircea_popescu: a hard fork that's not been ok'd by the bitcoin foundation (the real one, not vessenes' scam) is automatically an issue fort the obvious reason :
mircea_popescu: it's an attempt of unrelated third parties to run away with bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: "If the community can't hardfork today we could stop using bitcoin now and look for the better suited alt coin. If bitcoin can't fork-update it has no value."
mircea_popescu: yeah, get lost. obviously bitcoin HAS NO VALUE TO YOU,
mircea_popescu: but that;'s because you were expecting to defraud the faith others put in bitcoin by inflating it.
mircea_popescu: bitcoin does not do that, specifically, and so yeah, pack it and get lost.
mircea_popescu: "we" my fucking foot.
mircea_popescu: bejesus reddit is practically full of fake accounts with a party line.
kakobrekla: this 'this foundation can and the other cant' i very arbitrary except for one being 'us' and one 'them'.
kakobrekla: s/i/is
mircea_popescu shrugs.
mircea_popescu: "you can't fuck her unless she agrees" "that seems arbitrary, why her and not me ?"
mircea_popescu: "i know what you agree to, fucker"
mircea_popescu: meh this'll have to be a post.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1742 @ 0.00081945 = 1.4275 BTC [-] {10}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 6244 @ 0.00080813 = 5.046 BTC [-] {16}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 8664 @ 0.00080583 = 6.9817 BTC [-] {22}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 8396 @ 0.00080503 = 6.759 BTC [-] {20}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 7896 @ 0.00080346 = 6.3441 BTC [-] {18}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 6922 @ 0.00080242 = 5.5544 BTC [-] {12}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 2420 @ 0.0008 = 1.936 BTC [-] {6}
davout: mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2015#973151 <<< kind of what i figured when reading "The machine handling encryption and decryption on the MPEx side never connects to the Internet" from mpex's faq☝︎
assbot: Logged on 11-01-2015 17:15:59; mircea_popescu: the correct airgap solution is optics.
mircea_popescu: enjoy.
benjamindees: thank-you, sir
BigBitz: optics are not an airgap solution - if you mean fibre optics - or do you mean actual optics as in vision/eyes?
benjamindees: Mircea, no one is going to inflate Bitcoin... where do you get that idea?
mircea_popescu: benjamindees how much of this discussion have you read ?
adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2015#973445 << "with a timestamp in 2015 and at least 50 confirmations"☝︎
assbot: Logged on 11-01-2015 21:48:31; jurov: and how else it is worded? do say
davout: kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=11-01-2015#973163 <<< the visual confirmation of transferred data sounds pretty neat too☝︎
assbot: Logged on 11-01-2015 17:20:51; *: kakobrekla has a serial cable with a buffer with visual confirmation of the data and it does not need to be plugged to both computers at same time
benjamindees: well, I was under the impression it was quite a bit, but I may have missed some things
mircea_popescu: define inflation ?
davout: BigBitz: yeah sure, but ethernet-over-optical-fiber isn't really the idea
benjamindees: I agree that perhaps some people might secretly like to continue block rewards forever
benjamindees: but that's not going to happen
mircea_popescu: BigBitz optics as the element that goes over the airgap. rather than sound.
mircea_popescu: benjamindees can ye answer the question ?
jurov: adlais so the issue is not about cockchain.info publishing or not? i'm confused now
benjamindees: inflation is an increase in the money supply, of course
davout: i don't think sound is inherently flawed, as long as you are in a controlled environment
BigBitz: ethernet-over-optical-fibre lolwut.
BigBitz: do you even network bro.
davout: because if you manage to put some microphone somewhere and sniff audio, nothing theoretically prevents you from sniffing optic signal leaks as well, guess it all depends on the implementation specfics
decimation: optical ethernet is quite common in large installations
adlai is just pointing out possible corner cases in the wording, and that it's not measuring exactly "is a hardfork successful"
BigBitz: optical ethernet. wut.
BigBitz: There is no such thing as optical ethernet.
davout: BigBitz: "do you even network bro." <<< the point is precisely not to
mircea_popescu: benjamindees inflation is the increase in the supply. whatever it is.
mircea_popescu: if suddenly there's a lot of noobs here, there'll be an inflaiton of noobs.
kakobrekla: "is a hardfork successful" < since this is bb, hf successful only if mp submits.
mircea_popescu: where originally the occasional noob might be something people want to help, if there's a lot of them that well will be run dry. which is what happened in 1993.
adlai: the point, if i follow correctly, is to establish a channel for conveying specific data across the airgap, as opposed to ethernet-over-fiber, which would defeat the purpose of the airgap
mircea_popescu: adlai that bet doesn't measure "successful" was discussed before, and i said "well, yeah, but it's better to err this way, give the bet a chance"
adlai leaves dead horses to rot
mircea_popescu: davout optics easier to shield.
decimation: adlai: generally 1000Base-LX or similar have a physical laser for transmitting and some kind of photodetector for receive
mircea_popescu: was the statement when that was discussed.
benjamindees: mircea_popescu, lol, okay, listen I think you're over-reacting a bit. It'll work out.
davout: adlai: ethernet-over-fiber being merely the image of 'unsupervised permanently connected automatic optical transmission device'
mircea_popescu: benjamindees of course it will.
mircea_popescu: that's never been in contention.
davout: mircea_popescu: i agree, it's a difference in degree not in kind though
mircea_popescu: just, it will work out my way. not mtgox's way, not pirate's way, not reddit's way or the forum's way or vessenes' way
mircea_popescu: like it ALWAYS has to date, mind you.
davout: benjamindees: inflation of block space supply doesn't count as inflation to you?
mircea_popescu: davout it's a very hard problem this, spying on light.
decimation: adlai: my point being that one can physically disconnect a link end, if one wishes to prevent two-way transfer
adlai: davout, decimation, i know you guys understand this, i think i understand it, the person who seemet to be confused is BigBitz
BigBitz: confused...
BigBitz: I don't think so.
BigBitz: I'm au fait with optics.
adlai: then i misunderstood you, sorry
BigBitz: Don't apologise.
BigBitz: :)
adlai: don't tell me what not to do!
kakobrekla: imo the blockchain size would ideally be set so that we get most tx fees. the answer to that is not simple.
kakobrekla: but on that i think we are still way under limit.
adlai tends to avoid apologies although misunderstandings can lead to lots of strife so they're worth avoiding
adlai: somewhere... there was a comparison of this to the laffer curve
adlai: although it may have been in my head
adlai: blocksize limit + tx fees as the taxation apparatus of bitcoin's decentralized regulatory body
adlai: with the economic issues that arise from optimizing a tax system
davout: adlai: what BigBitz was saying is that an optic fiber isn't a proper airgap, which i concurred with saying that the idea of the airgap is definitely not to have some sort of permanent connection like ethernet over optical fiber should such a thing exist
kakobrekla: anyway think of the poor miners.
adlai: mircea_popescu: ever thought you'd find yourself leading the charge for higher taxation? :P
benjamindees: davout, no, it doesn't. Bitcoin isn't ultimately equivalent to debt-issued currencies in the way velocity is measured, or in the way it impacts the value. it just appears to be at the moment because inflation (issuance) is high.
mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> but on that i think we are still way under limit. << and i think women are overweight, by and large. what do we do ?
adlai: risperidone in the stratosphere
mircea_popescu: that's a valid point from benjamindees
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu start a foundation?
mircea_popescu: no, i just let 'em be.
adlai: if we look at the blocksize limit as a parameter of the tax system, this isn't inflation, it's a tax cut - which we may wish to reverse in the future
mircea_popescu: adlai nobody asked "we" anything.
mircea_popescu: "we" are not in charge of things just because pelosi likes to pretend so.
davout: benjamindees: i may be thick here, but i fail to see how this relates, as a miner i might not one someone forcing a scarce resource that i sell, such as space in a block, to be inflated away
adlai: if we the people having this discussion look at the ... which we the people cutting the taxes may wish to...
davout: s/i might not/i might not agree with some/
benjamindees: davout, well, the thing is, by the time it even matters, mining may be irrelevant anyways. I wouldn't bank on having a mining oligopoly twenty years from now. Mining is mostly a means of distribution.
kakobrekla: and network will be secured how ?
adlai: if you think mining is primarily a means of distribution, you should consider studying the problems with systems that preceeded bitcoin
decimation: pelosi will take care of the mining.
adlai: "systems" may be an exaggeration, a better word: "proposals"
decimation: !up rootstat
davout: does anyone know if current bitcoin nodes would actually blacklist/disconnect from nodes broadcasting >1m or otherwise invalid blocks?
davout: would transactions still propagated accross fork branches in the event of a hard fork scenario?
BingoBoingo: !up rootstat
davout: trying to figure out how easy/hard it would be to actually split coins reliably accross forks
danielpbarron: all it takes is anyone watching both chains and telling each about the other's transactions; all the ones that aren't doublespends should get accepted by both chains
adlai: nodes get penalized for relaying junk
davout: danielpbarron: yeah, that's a good point
adlai: i'm not certain if they'd get disconnected right away, but a node sending invalid-to-you blocks won't last long in your node's connection list
kakobrekla: how do other envision the future when reward goes towards 0. either a btc is worth half a planet or the fees amount per block go up a few orders of magnitude or network is dead
kakobrekla: which?
davout: adlai: yeah, but danielpbarron has a point, there only needs to be one node bridging transactions for a double-spend to be harder to pull off, obviously not impossible, but it would be harder than trivial
benjamindees: Just consider that, when Satoshi said "gain a new territory of freedom for several years," he had a reason. Bitcoin is not the end-all-be-all of systems. Mining may not be a long-term solution. But inflation is non-negotiable, regardless.
adlai: you can broadcast transactions on both chains, miners could even be incentivized to scan both chains for transactions valid in the chain they're mining on - but p2p broadcast probably won't work on its own, once the network has forked properly
danielpbarron: "confirming blocks for just the transaction fee is a losing venture, but we intend to make up for it in volume"
adlai: double spends are easy today, they'll be far easier in such a situation
danielpbarron: davout, if you can probably beat them to it if it's your intention to doublespend
decimation: well, if the network is dead, no one cares. If bitcoin can be traded for half a planet, the implication is that mining is costly
kakobrekla: no, but you cant secure a network on 0.05 if its not half a planet each.
mircea_popescu: <davout> would transactions still propagated accross fork branches in the event of a hard fork scenario? <>< hard to tell, but mostly yes.
mircea_popescu: <benjamindees> Just consider that, when Satoshi said "gain a new territory of freedom for several years," he had a reason. Bitcoin is not the end-all-be-all of systems. << that's not the reason he had. here is the reason he had : http://trilema.com/2013/digging-through-archives-yields-gold/
assbot: Digging through archives yields gold pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1w94ErX )
decimation: kakobrekla: if mining is costly, the miners won't relay dust
mircea_popescu: "The big and easy government attacks on money target a single central money issuer, as with the first of the modern political attacks, the French Assignat of 1792, but in the late nineteenth century political attacks on financial networks began, as for example the Federal reserve act of 1913, the goal always being to wind up the network into a single too big to fail entity, and they have been getting progressively bigg
mircea_popescu: er, more serious, and more disastrous, as with the most recent one. Each attack is hugely successful, and after the cataclysm that the attack causes the attackers are hailed as saviors of the poor, the oppressed, and the nation generally, and the blame for the the bad consequences is dumped elsewhere, usually on Jews, greedy bankers, speculators, etc, because such attacks are difficult for ordinary people understand. I
mircea_popescu: have trouble understanding your proposal - ordinary users will be easily bamboozled by a government sponsored security update. Further, when the crisis hits, to disagree with the line, to doubt that the regulators are right, and the problem is the evil speculators, becomes political suicide, as it did in America in 2007, sometimes physical suicide, as in Weimar Germany."
kakobrekla: decimation from miners perspective they would include everything and their mother if she has half a dime.
mircea_popescu: the slowly creeping usg-isation of bitcoin has to be nipped in the bud.
kakobrekla: "if im not picking this cent up, next miner will in next block."
decimation: kakobrekla: by that logic, airlines would fly a bum for five bux if there were an empty seat
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla this is a point. all the people derping about "economy" fail to have read that old mpoe-pr article about buffett and textile industry on the forum.
kakobrekla: yes but miners arent airplane liners.
mircea_popescu: hanbot got a link ?
davout: decimation: they totally would if they had to bear the costs of flying empty airplanes anyway
mircea_popescu: ^
mircea_popescu: they ... actually do.
mircea_popescu: there's a system where you only fly if they have empty seats, costs bupkiss
decimation: in the us, most airlines have done away with that
decimation: not sure about the rest of the world
mircea_popescu: ah k.
decimation: the reason being, the 'airline system' is running at capacity
davout: my favourite pilot joke: "see this baby? that's a C-130. I fly a C-150"
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1YVPVS8.txt )
adlai: !b 1
decimation: at any rate, this is a problem for actual miners to solve in the future, and they will likely despise any actions taken today on their behalf
davout: trying to solve other people's problems that don't exist yet, the recipe for success :D
davout: !up hanbot
hanbot: ty davout
davout: hanbot: so, how's the tampon market in bsas?
hanbot: mircea_popescu iirc https://bitcointa.lk/threads/bitbond-update-and-request-for-feedback.82625/page-2#post-1417775
assbot: BITBOND update and request for feedback | Page 2 | Bitcointa.lk ... ( http://bit.ly/1ANb1c9 )
mircea_popescu: hanbot a there we go.
hanbot: davout lol, i don't know what the hubub's about. they're like two bux a box'a 16.
mircea_popescu: ^ benjamindees read that.
hanbot: ^^ ben_vulpes
mircea_popescu: <davout> trying to solve other people's problems that don't exist yet, the recipe for success :D <<< kinda the meat and potatoes of socialist government eh.
davout: also product managers
hanbot: they come with a sanity tax tho', box waxes on unpoetic about how you the buyer are a unique woman whose dreams become reality etc.
decimation: mircea_popescu: the unborn make the perfect socialist workers. they never complain and always eager for the next five year plan
mircea_popescu: quite.
adlai: i like how the idf doesn't put the number in the name (though they are planned for five), calling them just "multi-year plans", as though resigned in advance to the inevitable delays
mircea_popescu: that's exactly it, in the quest to "we promise to over-react, please re-elect us" the socialist politicians are stuck moving the goalposts in the future. their ideal pov is to resolve problems for which no being alive can now hang them
decimation: this phenomenon is demonstrated in obamacare, for instance. the 40% tax on "cadillac" health plans will start in 2018, presumably after a republican president takes office
[\\\]: hi kids
joecool: hi nick, are you still mad at me?
benjamindees: mircea_popescu, you understand that the next, "bigger" too-big-to-fail entity is China, right? It's not Bitcoin... bankers don't take non-inflationary currency seriously.
davout: benjamindees: it's not really as if bitcoin was taking banking too seriously either
mircea_popescu: benjamindees heh.
mircea_popescu: how many "bankers" do you know ?
benjamindees: just one, personally
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/lets-address-some-of-the-more-common-pseudo-arguments-raised-by-the-very-stupid-people-that-like-the-gavin-scamcoin-proposal/
assbot: Let's address some of the more common pseudo-arguments raised by the very stupid people that like the Gavin scamcoin proposal pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1w961XS )
mircea_popescu: fresh offa da presses.
mircea_popescu: benjamindees an' he doesn't take bitcoin seriously
benjamindees: not as a currency
benjamindees: as an asset, sure, assets are easy to control with conventional means -- threats, taxation, theft, etc
[\\\]: "All readers are entitled to five free articles each week." <-- How do I go about getting my five free articles?
adlai: by not using the proxy
mircea_popescu: [\\\] simply load the site.
adlai: proxies socialize away your free articles
[\\\]: it redirected to the http://trilema.com/2013/paid-content/ page
assbot: Paid content pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1ANg3Wb )
[\\\]: I had to go back to the original and refresh
mircea_popescu: lol adlai
[\\\]: adlai, I'm not using a proxy. I have no such need.
mircea_popescu: not behind seven proxies ?!!?
mircea_popescu: the internetity!
[\\\]: It'd just route to North Korea anyway.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14650 @ 0.00059589 = 8.7298 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14650 @ 0.00059589 = 8.7298 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14650 @ 0.00059589 = 8.7298 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14650 @ 0.00059589 = 8.7298 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14650 @ 0.00059589 = 8.7298 BTC [-]
decimation: !up hanbot
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/lets-address-some-of-the-more-common-pseudo-arguments-raised-by-the-very-stupid-people-that-like-the-gavin-scamcoin-proposal/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10200 @ 0.00059202 = 6.0386 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10200 @ 0.00059202 = 6.0386 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10200 @ 0.00059202 = 6.0386 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10200 @ 0.00059202 = 6.0386 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10200 @ 0.00059202 = 6.0386 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10200 @ 0.00059202 = 6.0386 BTC [-]
scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/01/yet-another-silk-road-marketplace-launches/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76800 @ 0.00059589 = 45.7644 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76800 @ 0.00059589 = 45.7644 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76800 @ 0.00059589 = 45.7644 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76800 @ 0.00059589 = 45.7644 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76800 @ 0.00059589 = 45.7644 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76800 @ 0.00059589 = 45.7644 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76800 @ 0.00059589 = 45.7644 BTC [+]
davout: sgornick: as danielpbarron points out "Yes, that's why it will be so dangerous to accept payments from anyone that includes coins tainted with post-fork coinbases." is not completely accurate
davout: since you would be able to split coins, ie. even if your incoming tx isn't tainted with a post-fork coinbase you could receive funds that aren't spendable on both chains
sgornick: Why? 100% of those will be rejected on the side of the fork from nodes without the hard-fork implemented.
davout: i'm not sure i follow what you're saying
sgornick: Oh, ... I think I see -- you are saying I didn't go far enough? Not only are trxs with post-fork taint worthless, but there could be trxs with no taint that would confirm on one side but would be invalid as they were already spent on the other side?
davout: exactly
adlai: cazalla: "Schzultz"
sgornick: First, gotta get some vocabulary simplified. When we had the unplanned hard-fork March 2013, we had the protocol "pre-v0.8' and "v0.8" . What do we call this protocol with the hard fork implemented vs. that without the hard fork (i.e., unchanged? )
cazalla: adlai, ty
sgornick: Or .. maybe daniel's works best ... "bitcoin" vs. "gavincoin"
davout: sgornick: it wasn't a hard fork in the sense that no rule was changed
sgornick: Sure was ... v0.8 changed the rule in allowing more than the pre-v0.8 side did.
adlai: and there wasn't a well-defined set of nodes that would prefer one block over another - the pre-v0.8 side would nondeterministically reject certain valid blocks
davout: sgornick: it was a hard fork in the sense that not all implementations behaved the same way, not in the sense that a rule was changed
sgornick: The (bdb) rule wasn't (widely) known before v0.8 caused the fork, but it was coded into v0.8.1.
davout: sgornick: an implementation detail in some older client does not count as a protocol rule in my book, if proof was needed that the 'teh-code-is-teh-spec' approach is fundamentally braindamaged, well, look no further
mircea_popescu: <sgornick> First, gotta get some vocabulary simplified. When we had the unplanned hard-fork March 2013, we had the protocol "pre-v0.8' and "v0.8" . What do we call this protocol with the hard fork implemented vs. that without the hard fork (i.e., unchanged? ) << bitcoin vs gavincoin.
mircea_popescu: obviously.
mircea_popescu: inasmuch as the old thing is bitcoin, and the new thing some shit gavin made.
artifexd: Have we already passed the point of separation? Is it possible that I have bitcoins that are actually gavincoins?
mircea_popescu: <sgornick> The (bdb) rule wasn't (widely) known before v0.8 caused the fork, but it was coded into v0.8.1. << it is technially correct to say that the 8.1. version is in fact more restrictive than the pre 8.0 version.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 3739 @ 0.00084798 = 3.1706 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: what people knew about it was important then, but is not really germane
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 7222 @ 0.00084836 = 6.1269 BTC [+] {4}
mircea_popescu: artifexd nope.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 7222 @ 0.00084836 = 6.1269 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 7222 @ 0.00084836 = 6.1269 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 7222 @ 0.00084836 = 6.1269 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 7222 @ 0.00084836 = 6.1269 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 7222 @ 0.00084836 = 6.1269 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 7222 @ 0.00084836 = 6.1269 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 7222 @ 0.00084836 = 6.1269 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 7222 @ 0.00084836 = 6.1269 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 3483 @ 0.00084878 = 2.9563 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: davout if proof was needed that the 'teh-code-is-teh-spec' approach is fundamentally braindamaged, well, look no further <>< clearly. not to mention the recent ecdsa openssl debacle, which is pretty much exactly a replay of the bdb stuff. "oh, we included code but we had no idea what it does" sort of approach to code-is-spec specwork
davout: mircea_popescu: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=134318.msg1435904#msg1435904 <<< hearn, in reply to me: "because some parts of the protocol are directly exposed to underlying libraries like OpenSSL, you have to match their behaviour exactly as well, including all their bugs." https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=134318.msg1435904#msg1435904
assbot: Formalised Bitcoin Protocol Standard ... ( http://bit.ly/1y8H9n1 )
assbot: Formalised Bitcoin Protocol Standard ... ( http://bit.ly/1y8H9n5 )
davout: whoops, double link
davout: who could have predicted?