log☇︎
232 entries in 0.555s
asciilifeform: 'Even today, most software distributions on the net (and this includes NetBSD) are not signed.' << wat?
danielpbarron: Since it came up in the /. thread, though, I would like to make one correction. It's widely claimed that I'm "the one" who ejected Theo from the NetBSD community. That is false. At that time in NetBSD's history, Chris G. Demetriou was playing the role of alpha male, and I wasn't even given a choice. I was certain it was going to bite us in the ass. I think the question for historians is not whether it did bite us in the ass,
assbot: Confessions of a Recovering NetBSD Zealot - O'Reilly Media ... ( http://bit.ly/1FtcVzv )
danielpbarron: http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2006/09/14/netbsd_future.html << more history about the BSDs
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo the NetBSD team sounds like a bunch of fucktards i would never wish to have anything to do with.
BingoBoingo: 1990's NetBSD seems almost the canonical example of a poor heirarchy hindering an Open Source effort
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Yes but it is nice to read the emails and have names Hero Adam Glass quit NetBSD because he couldn't take Theo being shitgnomed in the name of politeness. Chris G Demetriou was the avatar of politeness who contacted theo on the importance of avoiding STFU in the name of adoption
mircea_popescu: "Finally, it is clear that for the project to be a success, we must promote a positive environment for both users and developers. If we continue to allow you, an official representative of the NetBSD project, to behave in this manner, we create the perception that we approve of your behaviour. That perception is damaging to the project and cannot be allowed to persist."
BingoBoingo: that you in no way annoy, ruffle, tweak, perturb, piss off, piss on, bugger, etc., any users, developers, or potential developers of NetBSD, unless they specifically ask you to. That's what got us to this point to begin with, really. Do you think you can manage _that_? I.e. are you willing to "just say no" to flaming people, however idiotic they may be?
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> presently the only package of -source- i've succeeded in building into a kernel that can be used on pogo - was netbsd. << it's over. eat a strategic banana, let them have the abandoned fortresses, move to the hills and build batteries of cheapish ground and air control devices to hold no mans land, lick wounds, regroup.
asciilifeform: presently the only package of -source- i've succeeded in building into a kernel that can be used on pogo - was netbsd.
asciilifeform: but BingoBoingo's discovery has somewhat ruined my appetite for netbsd..
asciilifeform: i have a very impoverished (no nand yet) netbsd on mine
asciilifeform: two leads: 1) port whatever's in netbsd to openbsd to get it going on pogo
asciilifeform: ('buildroot' builds cross compiler in the process of building, like netbsd does. it also builds minimal userlands with known contents suitable for read-only media. this is the part that is very tricky to achieve by hand)
asciilifeform: but that was originally how i ended up trying netbsd
mod6: <+asciilifeform> i started work on a driver but there's no time. << I'm pretty much in the same boat but it kinda sounds fun to write. I hate pdf's but I found this that sort of defines what I think the issue is here. Can you confirm ascii? http://chewiefs.sed.hu/sites/chewiefs.sed.hu/files/NetBSD_Flash_subsystem_final_nopagenum.pdf
asciilifeform: (netbsd doesn't support the nand either)
danielpbarron: because I agree, I do not like netbsd
danielpbarron: nearly cured of wanting anything whatsoever to do with netbsd << what does this mean for pogo?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i'm nearly cured of wanting anything whatsoever to do with netbsd now.
mircea_popescu: fun fact : elf does not contain a windows byte. netbsd, linux, system v etc.
ascii_field: and using vintage netbsd or whatever mircea_popescu does, is not a magic pill against this
danielpbarron: is the netbsd thing going to be an automated installer that puts the base system on the attached drive?
asciilifeform: mod6: i have one; currently writing a netbsd kernel driv. for the nand flash
asciilifeform finds himself writing a netbsd kernel mod, has approximately same thoughts as fella who wakes up in 'dumpster' in a back alley, 'how i came to this sort of life' ?
asciilifeform: but potentially useful for netbsd diddlers.
asciilifeform: netbsd on dead goat ?
danielpbarron: i got my pogo to load asciilifeform's netbsd.ub over ftp, and it stops at "Starting kernel ..." // is this step supposed to get a long time?
assbot: NetBSD mailing lists ... ( http://bit.ly/1ADIGmo )
plonky: http://www.netbsd.org/mailinglists/#port-arm
plonky: yeah netbsd developpers, who are in charge of arm support
ascii_field: netbsd guy ?
plonky: and what does the netbsd guy say ?
plonky: is it similar behaviour you have on netbsd ?
ascii_field: plonky: ultimate goal is netbsd with maximally stripped down kernel and scarcely any userland at all beyond bitcoind
danielpbarron: there is a bug in netbsd regarding sata drives that archlinux does not have
ascii_field: re: sata on netbsd: i get same effect (garbage read for drive manuf. name and lba max params on init) if plugging in sata drive on original uboot console
BingoBoingo seriously though NEtBSD was for people who wanted sudo on their toasters
BingoBoingo is still convinced NetBSD is a largely Jap fascination much like tentacle porn
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: how'd ya like to lose a week to http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/src/sys/dev/ic/mvsata.c?annotate=1.34&only_with_tag=MAIN
asciilifeform: http://cvsweb.netbsd.org/bsdweb.cgi/src/sys/dev/ic/mvsata.c?annotate=1.34&only_with_tag=MAIN
asciilifeform: netbsd is unusable unless+until this is fixed
asciilifeform: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/fa.netbsd.tech.kern/8K8OcXVxyXM
asciilifeform presently investigating why netbsd does not correctly initialize sata or sd controllers
danielpbarron: but when the netbsd thing is ready to go, the memory card should not be necessary
asciilifeform: with tftp can go from changed netbsd kernel option, rebuild, run, in less than five seconds
jurov: Pogov4> tftp 0x800000 netbsd.ub Using egiga0 device TFTP from server [censored]; our IP address is [censored] Filename 'netbsd.ub'. Load address: 0x800000 Loading: ################################################################# ################################################################# ################################################################# #############################################################
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: danielpbarron: in other news, i got netbsd ramdisk to build. << Beautiful, but there's going to be some very sad japs who still can't netbsd up their pogo next to their toaster because nand
asciilifeform: mod6: thanks for posting a tarball << it contains a 12MB turd (mostly nulls) that can be booted to show that netbsd boots on pogo and diddles the network. that's all
mod6: <+asciilifeform> danielpbarron: in other news, i got netbsd ramdisk to build. << great work! & thanks for posting a tarball.
asciilifeform: once you actually install netbsd with it on something else - sure
asciilifeform: 'NetBSD: running on a dead squirrel in a cardboard box since '03'
asciilifeform: i have demonstrated that netbsd kernel (of my custom trimmed build) will correctly init the periphs on pogo
asciilifeform: the only conceivable use of the above sample is to demonstrate that netbsd will function correctly on 'pogo'.
assbot: Index of /NetBSD/NetBSD-6.1.5/evbarm/binary/sets ... ( http://bit.ly/1B1TCfk )
asciilifeform: can find binary sets for arm at http://ftp.twaren.net/NetBSD/NetBSD-6.1.5/evbarm/binary/sets or your local sets build
asciilifeform: use as described above. will boot into a netbsd installer.
asciilifeform: nandwrite -p /dev/mtd4 netbsd.ub
asciilifeform: that results in a netbsd.ub which can be used straight
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: i will post a patch to the netbsd src tree
asciilifeform realized that he built the fscking netbsd -installer- into the eeprom
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: danielpbarron: in other news, i got netbsd ramdisk to build. << o hey wd. what was the catch ?
assbot: NetBSD Documentation: Porting NetBSD to a new ARM SoC ... ( http://bit.ly/17mdhuC )
danielpbarron: asciilifeform, is this the same documentation you've been looking at? -> http://www.netbsd.org/docs/kernel/porting_netbsd_arm_soc.html
asciilifeform: netbsd on pogo.
danielpbarron: the netbsd ramdisk thing
danielpbarron: asciilifeform> danielpbarron: in other news, i got netbsd ramdisk to build. << yay! in related news, i got some links from a guy in #olimex who tackled this problem back in 2013; haven't checked it out yet / just got back from stocking up for the impending snow storm
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2015 17:53:43; ascii_field: danielpbarron: the netbsd kernel and userland are sufficiently compact (vs linux) to make this a worthwhile exercise
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2015 17:53:11; ascii_field: danielpbarron: at present time there is no support whatoever for the eeprom in netbsd. this means that it can be used, but only if the userland (yes, all of it) is baked into a ramdisk baked into the kernel (which in turn is loaded by uboot in one shot at powerup)
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: in other news, i got netbsd ramdisk to build.
danielpbarron: mdsetimage: could not find symbols in netbsd
assbot: Logged on 10-02-2015 22:36:45; asciilifeform: let's do a 'trichotomy' on the netbsd thing. as far as i can see, there are three and only three possibilities in a case like this (i am deliberately not including the forth, of my being a muppet.) 1) whole orchestra -never- worked 2) once worked, but a sniveling shitgnome fucked with the docs 3) docs were once correct and described a working sys, but a sniveling shitgnome changed the code 'because pr
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: you may be interested in learning that i've a bit of time just now and am experimenting with a port of linux nand driver for marvell to netbsd
ascii_field: danielpbarron: you could find the bug in the netbsd ramdisk build script as well as i could
ascii_field: danielpbarron: the netbsd kernel and userland are sufficiently compact (vs linux) to make this a worthwhile exercise ☟︎
ascii_field: danielpbarron: at present time there is no support whatoever for the eeprom in netbsd. this means that it can be used, but only if the userland (yes, all of it) is baked into a ramdisk baked into the kernel (which in turn is loaded by uboot in one shot at powerup) ☟︎
danielpbarron: i'm downloading this right now -> ftp://ftp.netbsd.org/pub/NetBSD/NetBSD-6.1/source/sets/src.tgz
ascii_field: danielpbarron: see if you are able to set up the cross-compile system (netbsd carries its own) on your box
assbot: Logged on 17-02-2015 03:22:43; asciilifeform: nubbins`: what state's your beast in now << stuck on crafting the ramdisk (in-ram root fs) for netbsd. as of a week ago. haven't the time, presently, to do anything
asciilifeform: nubbins`: what state's your beast in now << stuck on crafting the ramdisk (in-ram root fs) for netbsd. as of a week ago. haven't the time, presently, to do anything ☟︎
ascii_field: ditto netbsd
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: linux kernel and minimal userland are massive compared to netbsd
asciilifeform: netbsd or minix are afaik the only practical paths towards a 100% crud-free node box.
asciilifeform: let's do a 'trichotomy' on the netbsd thing. as far as i can see, there are three and only three possibilities in a case like this (i am deliberately not including the forth, of my being a muppet.) 1) whole orchestra -never- worked 2) once worked, but a sniveling shitgnome fucked with the docs 3) docs were once correct and described a working sys, but a sniveling shitgnome changed the code 'because pr0gr3ss' ☟︎
asciilifeform: can anyone here shed any light on the question of how netbsd's 'nbmake' finds its global config, 'sys.mk' ? the docs are silent. and no, it doesn't look in its install dir.
asciilifeform: mod6: nothing involving netbsd's 'make' - 'nbmake' - works.
asciilifeform: thing is, netbsd is the one and only path because 1) it builds the toolchain 2) builds a <1MB kernel 3) perfectly set up for a one-executable userland. but (3) refuses to happen so far
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i've built perfectly usable netbsd boxes previously. but this one -has- to be a cross-compile. and live in ramdisk.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Most NetBSD instructions do. Most platforms they support can get some sort of bootable kernel but not much in the way of a useful userland... The Japanese love it because they can say their toilets "run" unix...
asciilifeform: question for all: has anyone, ever, built netbsd ramdisk on cross-compile build system, or knows of anyone who has done so, or knows so much as a shred of evidence that this has ever worked?
asciilifeform: not as much of a deal-killer as it appears, however, because netbsd kernel + required userland (not incl. bitcoind) can slide under 2MB easily
asciilifeform: ramdisk is a must because there is no support in netbsd for pogo's nand flash
asciilifeform: (netbsd's cross-build system is buggy as all hell, and it may turn out that i'm the only one trying to use it in anger presently)
asciilifeform: re: pogo: i have a cross-compile setup of netbsd for pogo (run on any reasonable unix) working
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: netbsd on pogo << last i checked, lacked support for internal eeprom
danielpbarron: speaking of netbsd; that's what i'm researching as a candidate to replace archlinux for the pogo
punkman: netbsd has a pgp implementation
asciilifeform: i also admit i have a netbsd variant (experimental) for this machine
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: When hardware replaces pile cooked by fucking NetPG will try. Worst BSD experience ever. Would not lament painful demise of NetBSD devs responsible for that abortion.