jurov: to go back to original issue, how can multiple centers of power exist in bitcoin?
☟︎ gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 388.4, Best ask: 388.42, Bid-ask spread: 0.02000, Last trade: 388.4, 24 hour volume: 74062.16019306, 24 hour low: 352.5, 24 hour high: 392.5, 24 hour vwap: None
pete_dushenski: jurov: i guess i don't see that all the world's power ~has~ to be "in" bitcoin.
pete_dushenski: so while bitcoin might be more politically centralised, there's a whole lot else out there in the wild
jurov: you call them "centers of power"? fo srs
pete_dushenski: relatively speaking, sure. within the minds of the many, many "people" who bestow it upon them. the scrillion branches of xtianity are no different in this regard. and they all have some measure of power.
pete_dushenski: this minor power might not move mountains or build space rockets, but it can provide health care, "education," "a sense of community" etc
jurov: when did you start considering headcount as a measure?
jurov: so, if bitcoin becomes world's reserve currency but people will still "bestow" upon usd
jurov: where is the power center?
jurov: i'm lost in this, you foresee feudal society, then what people bestow, dunno
pete_dushenski: i think the issue here might be with the conception that power is binary and that its centres must contain all or none. it isn't. there are gradations. so even if bitcoin is very, very valuable, it won't be sufficient to constitute the entirety of the world. you can't eat bits.
jurov: irc you and mircea_popescu expect power to hang or stake certain people.. that's pretty close to "all" end
☟︎ assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 20:31:38; ascii_shmoocon: and holyfuq are these talks snorefest
punkman: jurov, don't you wish a stake for certain people?
pete_dushenski: jurov: nah, outside of the "civilised world", killing your enemies is pretty common.
☟︎☟︎ pete_dushenski: it's actually the minority of the world that thinks you can "talk it through" and "share fee-fees"
jurov: if civilised world ends and proves it was only an illusion, then perhaps i reconsider
pete_dushenski: i'm content with that conclusion. now go get some sleep !
punkman: well you can put them in a jail cell if you prefer, but I ain't paying for it
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 20:41:15; mircea_popescu: sez so right in the merchant of venice!
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 21:50:08; mod6: to get the level of detail required for that, it'd probably need to be 50' high. all the better. :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1950 @ 0.00052045 = 1.0149 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6499 @ 0.00052212 = 3.3933 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2600 @ 0.00052218 = 1.3577 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 21:49:24; mod6: ;;later tell pete_dushenski pretty neat ice scuptures. i'd like to see an ice sculpture of a guy with a sharpie in pooper.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3800 @ 0.00052218 = 1.9843 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 22:23:44; guruvan: mod6: yah - I don't know anything about V - but I'll figur ethat out and get this in there
mircea_popescu: "@transcats Memory-hard PoW hasn't been invented yet, so we can't implement that.
☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: This is literally no harder to get consensus for than a hardforked block size increase. This is probably easier, in fact, since it impacts fewer people negatively."
mircea_popescu: letting bitfury & friends eat 100mn in unrecoupable engineering costs would provide exactly the correct lesson as to what it's a good idea to say and when it's a good idea to shut the fuck up and toe the line.
mircea_popescu: NACK. This renders hundreds of millions of dollars worth of equipment useless. It will leave a bad taste in the miners' mouth. I also think this is an unnecessary fix to a problem that won't exist in the long term. ASIC mining hardware will sooner or later hit fundamental physical limits and become commoditized. Decentralization of mining will naturally follow."
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 22:52:05; ben_vulpes: mod6: press of a given head should result in the *exact same* tree under all V's, as i understand it
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:10:05; jurov: yes, it does. but it does not come out of tap every 20km
BingoBoingo: Also the blue pogoplug is the worthless one for our cause, right?
☟︎ BingoBoingo: Was just at walmart and saw a few for $10 a pop.
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:21:55; jurov: imagine in addition of unique components, having to orchestrate dedicated supplies of material
mircea_popescu: fucking roman empire got dates across the sea in time to start a war. wtf already,
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:23:54; jurov: they do use majority of stuff off the shelf from reliable suppliers, and these suppliers rely on stable overall volume in mass market
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:24:50; punkman: /me wonders how much a small steel mill costs
mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373607 << it's the same money, but in fewer hands. think of it this way : currently, there's 10`000 "family units" in town X making "the decision" to buy cable. as a result... there's two shitty companies and a de facto monopoly. transform those families into slaves and servants. they no longer get their own house, but live in the house oftheir masters, at their disposals
☝︎ assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:25:19; jurov: well, say titanium mine used for specialized stuff runs out and new one has to be developed. who pays for this?
mircea_popescu: . now there's 200 masters, and 12 cable companies, and no fucking monopoly.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: because the 200 are stronger than the 12 ; whereas the 10k are weaker than fucking cox cable.
mircea_popescu: and yes this means that julie slaveface doesn't get to elect who's gonna take her maidenhood. fuck her.
mircea_popescu: and yes this means some inept derp doesn't get to sit around and "save the world" with "his foundation". fuck gates, too.
mircea_popescu: but the ONLY difference is that instead of cox writing 10k 50 dollar bills for cable each month, a coupla hundred people sign off on cable bills worth 10k dollars each once a year. and the internet is twice as good.
mircea_popescu: so you got a 4x improvement in qualityt of life for the slaves&servants in question out of the very simple measure of halving the costs and doubling the quality ; and at the expense that julie nobody doesn't get to pretend on reddit and gates doesn't get to pretend in washpo anymore.
☟︎ BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> but the ONLY difference is that instead of cox writing 10k 50 dollar bills for cable each month, a coupla hundred people sign off on cable bills worth 10k dollars each once a year. and the internet is twice as good. << Kinda why US municipalities with good internet have a maximum size.
mircea_popescu: and note that there wasn't any sort of run amok "medical profession", or "legal profession", or anything else back then. doctor fucking paid house calls.
mircea_popescu: except if you were poor and unconnected, but in that case - YOU BELONG IN THE SEWER.
BingoBoingo: If there aren't jsut a handful of families in town with the relative wallets to tell the cable co FU, can't have get fiber
mircea_popescu: otherwise, doctor came to your fucking house. like they still did when i was a child, and ironicallyt - for the exact same reason.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: ro soviet socialism was very much a medieval arrangement.
mircea_popescu: for as long as they make as much difference as rats, they can also multiply as rats.
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:45:44; pete_dushenski: jurov: i can see it. and while i agree there would be trade-offs (less reliability, more difficulty find parts perhaps), i think that the benefits would more than compensate and that product designers would adapt themselves accordingly (eg. making repairs possible without specialised equipment and using more readily available parts)
mircea_popescu: heck, even in 1950 stuff was a lot more reliable than the shit that passes today.
☟︎ BingoBoingo: Occassionally 2016 stuff is better than 2006 stuff.
BingoBoingo: Example: mass market walmart brand clock radio purchased today. Beats the hell out of finicky big name 2006 clock radio. Beautiful AM reception only 22 inches from UPS transformer
BingoBoingo: But neither would be capable of crushing as many skulls as 1950's equivalent
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:51:43; jurov: feudalism in the past was decentralised only because of distances and communication problems
mircea_popescu: ideology matters a lot more than these things. the germans wanted to be free and the french wanted to party.
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 22:52:05; ben_vulpes: mod6: press of a given head should result in the *exact same* tree under all V's, as i understand it
mod6: mathematically even.
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 00:00:02; jurov: to go back to original issue, how can multiple centers of power exist in bitcoin?
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 00:12:50; jurov: irc you and mircea_popescu expect power to hang or stake certain people.. that's pretty close to "all" end
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 22:50:57; ben_vulpes: mod6: eh it probably doesn't work anyways
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2414 @ 0.00052045 = 1.2564 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 22:52:05; ben_vulpes: mod6: press of a given head should result in the *exact same* tree under all V's, as i understand it
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 22:54:13; mod6: <+ben_vulpes> mod6: press of a given head should result in the *exact same* tree under all V's, as i understand it << mine was ever so slightly varient from alfs
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 22:54:45; *: pete_dushenski assumes osx 10.6 discs would be hard to come by
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 22:54:13; mod6: <+ben_vulpes> mod6: press of a given head should result in the *exact same* tree under all V's, as i understand it << mine was ever so slightly varient from alfs
mod6: from those discussions, I'm under the impression that the ordering of the flow doesn't exactly have to be the exact same, as long as the pressing is the exact same.
mod6: i'm not really talkinga bout the pressing. as i was saying to ben, i checked all of my pressings by final output hash & have automated tests that check & ensure this outcome is correct.
mod6: the new, yet unreleased v99996 will check the resultant hashes of the files touched by a vpatch -- to add another layer to this.
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:06:42; BingoBoingo: cobol, the language of bzns
guruvan: mod6: bitcoin docker image is up - just testing now - patch wasn't working for me, so it's manually applied
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:07:49; pete_dushenski: ^berlin airport completed in 1927, when commercial air travel was far from accessible. and still, infrastructure was built ! whaddyaknow !
mod6: yup, me too -- code is done, pretty much tested thus far. but the changes to having .wot in the pwd instead of ~/ by default; i want to ensure that it works ok with trinque' makefiles before i publish.
mod6: <+guruvan> mod6: bitcoin docker image is up - just testing now - patch wasn't working for me, so it's manually applied << ah, you had it build from V?
guruvan: no - I'm not there yet - I'm just sitting down to figure out how to use V
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:14:09; pete_dushenski:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1372994 << this is readily disproven by the markets for tourbillons, cessnas, and ferraris. none of which "need" the mass market. so even if these manufacturers might sell some swag to the plebes and make a dime doing it, they arguably innovated more before they reduced themselves to part-time sheep herding..
guruvan: any prereqs i need to know - just latest perl?
mod6: yeah perl 5, and that should be it. if you want it to be able to utilize the graphing utility, you need to install Graph::Easy, but that is not a requirement or prereq to it running.
mod6: 1]: with version 99997 create (by hand) a ~/.wot directory and populate it with keys named as their irc-nick and .asc, like: mod6.asc or asciilifeform.asc
mod6: well, that's pretty much it. the 'init' command should take care of the rest.
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:21:10; pete_dushenski: you better have a unique turn signal stalk in your 599 gtb. or else.
mod6: when you get there, if you hit any snags, just let me know.
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:27:13; pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: hard to make a small steel mill ? yes. impossible ? no.
guruvan: no trouble - I'm gonna play a little with V tonight
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:28:07; jurov: you can't have custom "special" "high performance" whole supply line from mine up to the product
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:36:07; jurov: and would be the computer even feasible when only anough vacuum tubes/xsistors will be developed only for top 15k to have radio receiver?
mircea_popescu: jurov "gets it" in that he flatters your favourite worldview, is all.
mircea_popescu: a) you don';t get to say what's the criteria for you being proven wrong
mircea_popescu: b) symbolics was a nefarious piece of shit i'd burn with my own hands if it was still aroundm.
mircea_popescu: that it fucking died a sad death almost excuses the fact microsoft didn't.
mircea_popescu: because if the personification of justice sits there and says "only had one bullet, and ms were idiots - so i killed the dangerous morons", i can't protest.
mircea_popescu: the whole thing that company was - a giant apple store.
mircea_popescu: "The largest criticisms of Symbolics in the article are that Symbolics believed AI would take off and that Symbolics mistakenly pushed its view that proprietary hardware was the way to go for AI."
BingoBoingo: But seriously. The blue pogos were the worthless ones right, or do I gotta go back to Walmart tonight?
mircea_popescu: and if i wanted to upgrade it i had to buy from them, right ?
mircea_popescu: that this particular brand of "just low profile enough" actually died for once is nothing short of miraculous.
mircea_popescu: god fucking help us with a symbolics entrenched in success.
mircea_popescu: i want a single, competent it corp like i want an elk horn up my ass.
mircea_popescu: yes, actually, there were. you don't recall their names, but there were.
mircea_popescu: there's no reason they should have, statistically. that they did is a miracle.
mircea_popescu: the way most of the early industry was rolled up, was that the "chosen" schelling point got tax breaks.
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 01:45:44; mircea_popescu: otherwise, doctor came to your fucking house. like they still did when i was a child, and ironicallyt - for the exact same reason.
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 01:48:28; mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373655 << the thing here is that the age of unreliability is today, not 1700. as alf pointed out at some point - you couldn't sell ANY of your consumer junk you buy today to people living then. not your shitty shoes, not your shitty anything.
mircea_popescu: also known as "fuck everything up, nobody'll figure it out anyway"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i was referencing that "i can throw them out for you" thing
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 01:48:39; mircea_popescu: heck, even in 1950 stuff was a lot more reliable than the shit that passes today.
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 01:19:36; mircea_popescu: "@transcats Memory-hard PoW hasn't been invented yet, so we can't implement that.
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 00:14:21; pete_dushenski: jurov: nah, outside of the "civilised world", killing your enemies is pretty common.
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 01:20:08; mircea_popescu: actually i wouldn't go to war over keccak.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Luke suggested it to the ClassicCoin forkers
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 01:35:25; BingoBoingo: Also the blue pogoplug is the worthless one for our cause, right?
BingoBoingo: I don't have the patience for those savings
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5750 @ 0.00052045 = 2.9926 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 01:39:08; mircea_popescu: . now there's 200 masters, and 12 cable companies, and no fucking monopoly.
mircea_popescu: "Likewise, there were only two gasworks in London in 1814, and by 1822, there were seven and by 1829, there were 200 companies."
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 00:14:21; pete_dushenski: jurov: nah, outside of the "civilised world", killing your enemies is pretty common.
raedah: met someone yesterday who's family migrated from the Montana mountains back in the day because the neighboring families had a habbit of solving disputes by killing eachothers children.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2571 @ 0.00052088 = 1.3392 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2200 @ 0.00052088 = 1.1459 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 21:07:47; mircea_popescu: no thermite present ?
BingoBoingo: Interesting. Would throw in for that kickstarter if scaled up to 3.5" drive
raedah: hello. here i am known as raedah. ive been a dev for joinmarket for the past few months. i like sexual relations with women, resisting invalid authority, educating ignorance, and being in nature.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the part where he's saying exactly " The power is traded for the fetish of power. That's not capitalism, it is madness, and apparently Davos and Randi think women especially will heart it." except he sounds like he means it.
mircea_popescu: so wait, i shouldn't fucking own things because "they canb bestolen" and instead be a good slave and own my two arms ?
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 21:50:51; mod6: checking whether the C compiler works... configure: error: in `/var/tmp/portage/sys-devel/gdb-7.10.1/work/gdb-7.10.1':
raedah: asciilifeform, backpacking in US northwest forests is nice. refreshing, lots of streams for water, beautiful changing landscapes to show you different facets of what is possible.
mircea_popescu: did you just ignorantly substitute an ought for an is or was it actually deliberate ?
assbot: Logged on 02-10-2014 20:53:10; assbot: BGP Hijacking for Cryptocurrency Profit | Dell SecureWorks
mircea_popescu: this is a substantially different statement from your "i expect it won't work".
mircea_popescu: he is saying what orlov is saying, and what yarvin is saying, and what generally the castrated son of a stupid anglo whore is always fucking saying
mircea_popescu: whether you personally will or will not be able to defend your capital has no bearing on whether you OUGHT to accumulate capital.
mircea_popescu: the pretense to the contrary is what fucking created, and what fucking maintains, the miserable situation under which you belabour.
mircea_popescu: or, perhaps more accurately, what feeds the swam in which you wallow.
mircea_popescu: "is the choice between being a priss or getting laid, or is the choice between what ~kind~ of getting laid ? maybe i'm getting laid with jesus!"
mircea_popescu: yeah, im sure you're alt-getting laid and christian rock rules.
mircea_popescu: "knowing how to" fill the fucking paperwork and ask for permission.
mircea_popescu: but see... he has the capital of knowing how to... uhhh... oh i know, misrepresent his vices as virtues!
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 22:31:04; mod6: the idea of V is a versioning system based upon patches that include SHA512 hashes of the file before and after the given patch is applied -- and checks the given signatures of the wot entities who have signed off on the patch.
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:45:41; jurov: *shrug* i can understand, the world is overcrowded, it's tempting to dream of putting stupid people "to their place". whether that comes to pass, i doubt.
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2016 23:56:52; pete_dushenski: i honestly have no idea how much autonomy vladivostok has.
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 01:20:08; mircea_popescu: actually i wouldn't go to war over keccak.
BingoBoingo: From mines:
https://archive.is/CkspO "On the one hand he has done some good work with BitcoinJ, Lighthouse etc. Certainly his choice of bloom filter has had a net negative effect on the privacy of SPV users"
thestringpuller: Isn't BitcoinJ the thing that lame android client used? That thing was buggy as hell and like 15 different distros of android caused the wallet to leak keys.
BingoBoingo: Hello jixei what bring you around these parts?
jixei: Searching for intelligent life. My immediately surrounding company has been disappointing.
ben_vulpes at office, fixing fancy couch $bzprtnr bought a year ago
ben_vulpes: one of those interesting $50 now or $2500 in three week problems i can solve due to hilariously checkered background
BingoBoingo: jixei: I see, care to give us a little bit of your history?
jixei: Not to be rude, but I think I'm just going to lurk. Thank you for your inspiration.
jixei: I thought being prepared at any moment to stand up for what you believe in was the higher road. But the impasses have been many.
BingoBoingo: jixei: Rude is often welcome here. But lurking is fine too.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> if i can't read it in (max) half hour and say WHAT EACH MOTHERFUCKING LINE DOES it is not a correct implementation !! << any ideas on a correct implementation?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2067 @ 0.0005235 = 1.0821 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7450 @ 0.00052391 = 3.9031 BTC [+] {2}
gribble: BTCChina BTCRMB last: 2547.2, vol: 98294.14320000 | Volume-weighted last average: 2547.2
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 382.54, vol: 23634.15493557 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 382.851, vol: 21044.74759 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 385.58, vol: 55879.97188189 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 370.0, vol: 6.30632189 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 387.879163, vol: 98285.26020000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 385.06, vol: 496.21416148 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 401.692543989, vol: 185.97494102 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2008 @ 0.00052493 = 1.0541 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4500 @ 0.00052605 = 2.3672 BTC [+] {4}
pete_dushenski: this peanut butter chocolate cheesecake is a bit disappointing. icing is too sweet and it's not "cheezy" enough. more like an ultra-rich, ultra-dense, slightly creamier cake than you'd otherwise expect. the most impressive thing about this cake was the sheer mass. the box must've been 20 lbs for a 10"er.
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 01:37:01; mircea_popescu: they're as unreliable as they fucking get.
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 01:42:12; mircea_popescu: so you got a 4x improvement in qualityt of life for the slaves&servants in question out of the very simple measure of halving the costs and doubling the quality ; and at the expense that julie nobody doesn't get to pretend on reddit and gates doesn't get to pretend in washpo anymore.
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 01:48:28; mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2016#1373655 << the thing here is that the age of unreliability is today, not 1700. as alf pointed out at some point - you couldn't sell ANY of your consumer junk you buy today to people living then. not your shitty shoes, not your shitty anything.
assbot: Logged on 13-05-2015 22:13:18; asciilifeform: pete_dushenski: and what other player will catch up with this, do you suppose, and how ?
pete_dushenski: perhaps i read too much into that question, but the idea that one would need to specifically name future miners and their means and methods seemed (and seems) a bit silly to me. they, whoever they are, will find a way, because how not ?
mod6: asciilifeform: hey, for a long time now I've been searching for the fix you provided to vdiff for debian/ubuntu; for some reason it barfs saying that there is an unmatched quote or something.
pete_dushenski: these were evidently a first-class mode of transport, substantially more expensive to own and operate than a car, and not, to my eye, made of cardboard (though planes a decade earlier were, by and large)
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 02:12:24; asciilifeform: today one is not permitted to fly so much as a mile without filling out forms in triplicate
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2550 @ 0.00052633 = 1.3421 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: no one's claiming that flying and driving and living and breathing under usg don't blow dead bears.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2500 @ 0.00052837 = 1.3209 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: Speaking of Ferrari from the mines: "For once, Christian Bale exits a body-changing role because it’d be too hard on his health/body
http://bit.ly/1J7BKWA "
pete_dushenski:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373850 << ha. the only disingenuous comparison is between your experience with cars and roads and what's actually required for '15k' world. so 15k people drive international cxt's across the broken remnants of the americas. what of it ? YOU DON'T NEED INTERSTATES. wanna travel farther ? fly. or move.
☝︎ BingoBoingo: Not International cxt. International harvester scout.
BingoBoingo: harvester scout for surfaces more hostile than the roads they were
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2984 @ 0.00052865 = 1.5775 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.punindented.-1:fdd8264a25a95bfb8946055ada53326a3a54a99c6cf8594b6f5effcaae04d145
assbot: Successfully added a rating of -1 for punindented with note: unwelcome here
ben_vulpes: punindented: you may continue this conversation here
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 02:15:31; asciilifeform: there was no ferrari in 1850.
ben_vulpes: how quickly do the rest of you feel like burning your identities?
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: RE:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=17-11-2015#1325573 << Employer matches 401k up to ~6% of annual income pre-tax. The 401k program allows you to tke a 401k loan and pay yourself back. Best case scenario you pay the fiat back over X period (as long as you don't leave the job), or somehow there is some huge collapse and you just never pay it back.
☝︎ BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: So what was so irritating it had to happen in a pm conversation?
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: 'twas so banal as to be entirely unremarkable
ben_vulpes: should punindented come back, it must be on his knees.
ben_vulpes: i don't extend the robert viragh s of the world nearly so much rope as i did before
ben_vulpes: once i was a child, i extended them as much rope as i thought they'd need to hang themselves
ben_vulpes: but now i am a man and i hang fools by my own hand
pete_dushenski:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373868 << cars were better pre-cpu for a reason you've already pointed out in the (lost) logs, viz. constant firmware crashes and general electrical gremlins living in cars of the last two decades. no cpu in the car anymore ? good riddance. maybe then i'd actually buy a newer model.
☝︎ assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 02:18:02; asciilifeform: as is the cpu in engine comp.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: He linked me a dpaste. Solid decision.
pete_dushenski:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373871 << except the sultan of brunei (as everyone knows?) has a thing for cars, not computers, and so has had dozens if not hundreds of custom-built automobiles, many of which he never drove and later left to rot in the sun, but that's his prerogative. but no, it didn't all go to glitzy whores.
☝︎ ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: they /are/ barbarians.
ben_vulpes: adherence to the modernist forms notwithstanding.
ben_vulpes: buy cars and not computers. have no representation in the wot.
pete_dushenski: which would've worked fine in any of the last 20 centuries, unfortunately just not this one
pete_dushenski: even then, it'll work to a perfectly adequate extent. i'm not sure anyone will be worse off for brunei's adherence to last century's mores.
pete_dushenski:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1373877 << these were entirely unrelated parts of the zil factory afaik. only reason "zil" was chosen was that b wanted to shine a positive light on the company, like bahamas does with cadillac. not like it matters whether 'beast' shares parts with gmc trucks. hell it probably wouldn't break down in the middle of diplomatic missions if it were a custom job !
☝︎ BingoBoingo: <ben_vulpes> where'd it cut off? << before I anticipate he got really verbose
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2500 @ 0.00052343 = 1.3086 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4070 @ 0.00052109 = 2.1208 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 02:36:50; asciilifeform: there were not even 12 makers of rich folk cars in 1890.
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 03:36:34; asciilifeform: from the cartoon mircea_popescu linked earlier this week
phf: so running linux on macbook pro is all kinds of fun. there's about 50 files exposed in /sys and /proc that control intimate details of the laptop's operation.
phf: like for example controls over the ability to not overheat like crazy and drain battery in half hour.
phf: but you're not supposed to touch those files directly, oh no, they are undocumented and what are you some kind of terrorist. instead there's 20 incompatible power/suspend/battery/sensor/fans/specialkeys control daemons in various states of disarray. "oh, if your fans don't kick in you want termald, or try batterd, which works with new lzmi acpi functions."
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8661 @ 0.00052053 = 4.5083 BTC [-] {3}
phf: who would've thought that linux ecosystem could've gotten worse since last time i checked..
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2600 @ 0.00052045 = 1.3532 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: i'm playing openbsd quest most recently, as openbsd didn't do drivers or reference implementation compilation
ben_vulpes: i'm playing *gentoo quest* most recently...
ben_vulpes: sorry, $client left many bottles of homemade kahlua at the office
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: the fiat involvement is not clear
ben_vulpes: oh wait this is fiat currency not fiat cars
ben_vulpes: sorry, the relentless carblogger threads have me twisted
phf: ben_vulpes: macbookpro early 2011 (i believe it's 8,2)
phf: my standard machine, basically
phf: i tried openbsd on it, but it wouldn't even boot. i'm pretty sure it's an issue with integrated/discrete video cards
phf: i'm running slackware on it :>
ben_vulpes: mine did obsd just fine, didn't want to accelerate videocards though
phf: accelerate? what you trying to watch cat videos? i've only gotten as far as having emacs running on console
ben_vulpes: exwm and the reference implementation are ~90% of my current compute goals
BingoBoingo: "We do not believe the concept of fee market"
phf: i'm planning on staying in console until i figure out how to make base hardware behave
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron do either you or shinohai care to invite DiscusFish's macbook-air to channel?
☟︎☟︎☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00052068 = 5.4151 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00052045 = 2.3941 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3400 @ 0.00052572 = 1.7874 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3350 @ 0.00052213 = 1.7491 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2850 @ 0.0005205 = 1.4834 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5900 @ 0.00052468 = 3.0956 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2559 @ 0.00052062 = 1.3323 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5250 @ 0.00052045 = 2.7324 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3800 @ 0.00052577 = 1.9979 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6150 @ 0.00052058 = 3.2016 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1950 @ 0.00052487 = 1.0235 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3197 @ 0.00052599 = 1.6816 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3547 @ 0.00052852 = 1.8747 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 00:18:12; pete_dushenski: there are fighters and there are lovers. jurov's the latter.
thestringpuller: Bitcoin Classic doesn't even beat around the bush about it being socialist: "Our open source community prioritizes marginalized people’s safety over privileged people’s comfort."
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6455 @ 0.00052881 = 3.4135 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00052931 = 2.4348 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2800 @ 0.00053037 = 1.485 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4700 @ 0.00053037 = 2.4927 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.00052645 = 2.7902 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2779 @ 0.00052645 = 1.463 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5976 @ 0.00052894 = 3.1609 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3150 @ 0.00052645 = 1.6583 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2883 @ 0.00052497 = 1.5135 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2078 @ 0.00052045 = 1.0815 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5600 @ 0.0005208 = 2.9165 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 07:19:37; BingoBoingo: danielpbarron do either you or shinohai care to invite DiscusFish's macbook-air to channel?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4800 @ 0.00052797 = 2.5343 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3450 @ 0.00052045 = 1.7956 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3700 @ 0.00052124 = 1.9286 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5400 @ 0.00052045 = 2.8104 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2550 @ 0.00052124 = 1.3292 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 01:19:36; mircea_popescu: "@transcats Memory-hard PoW hasn't been invented yet, so we can't implement that.
mircea_popescu: technically. there isn't really a good solution to the problem in my estimation either.
mircea_popescu: i'm not particularly convinced this would solve anything, also.
punkman: memory-hard or not, if you change the PoW you obsolete existing hardware. Problem is TSMC will still have more hardware than you, whatever you decide to use next.
adlai: fwiw bramc (of bittorrent fame) is working on space-hard PoW which he hasn't yet decided whether to nameclash with PoC (concept vs capacity) or PoS (shit vs space)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5800 @ 0.00052248 = 3.0304 BTC [+] {5}
punkman: Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company Limited
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3356 @ 0.00052045 = 1.7466 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4416 @ 0.00052045 = 2.2983 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, stranding the miners is an important reserve power.
mircea_popescu: schmucks better ponder it well before they go running their mouth about "supporting" this or that.
thestringpuller: punkman: direct access to chips (wholesale and PCB fab) cheapens mining by 400%
mircea_popescu: ascii_shmoocon you know the b,tmsr~ emissary makes a report that sounds a lot like the nsa emissary's.
mircea_popescu: "these people'd be a lot more interested if they tried cooking naked."
ascii_shmoocon: aha it was surprisingly nonlame. turns out that opencv is a piece-of-shitte, you can evolve bitmaps that crash it.
ascii_shmoocon: lol i think every third bloke in the chairs is nsa emissary
ascii_shmoocon: and just now there was 'state malware' talk given by a... political 'scientist'
ascii_shmoocon: the crackpot group theory cipher thing yesterday was lulzy
thestringpuller: ascii_shmoocon: LOL so you can spoof facial recognition based on OpenCV. (Begins to wonder how much facial spookware in airports is based on OpenCV stack).
ascii_shmoocon: and i now have what is quite likely a lifetime supply of keychain
thestringpuller: "An interesting non-technical objection is that because nodes and miners who haven’t adopted the soft fork end up in the main chain anyway, this is a case of a majority undemocratically forcing a minority to adopt new policies. Of course, it’s your choice to use a protocol with this feature! Satoshi could have just as easily written Bitcoin to treat unknown block versions as invalid, but choose not too." << Uh huh.
mircea_popescu: "fucking a ten dollar hooker in the cunt is safer than fucking her in the ass".
ascii_shmoocon: say mp or other decides to nuke. makes own alt? opens fiat exchanges???
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5823 @ 0.00052769 = 3.0727 BTC [+] {3}
thestringpuller: nuclear war always has fallout. the flexing of muscles is sometimes enough to get enemy to see reason.
thestringpuller: i thought ideally it would only fork the miners off the network. thus in ideal world "nothing really changes"
ascii_shmoocon: the other thing is that alt with novel pov is a giftwrapped offering to the fella with the largest stash of ready fpga fabric. which is...
mircea_popescu: ascii_shmoocon> say mp or other decides to nuke. makes own alt? opens fiat exchanges??? << "we da people"
mircea_popescu: so's everyone in the "we wanna capture bitcoin" camp.,
thestringpuller: ascii_shmoocon: this wouldn't have been a problem if friedcat hadn't spit in MPEx's face.
mircea_popescu: yes it would have been. whatever the fuck happens, problems are permanent part of phenomenology.
mircea_popescu: ascii_shmoocon that broasca despises racul. si o stiuca.
thestringpuller: a lot of the problem seems to be due to blatant cartelization
thestringpuller: and the cartel is run as a shady Triad-wannabe type of operation. Insane markups on retail, shitty products, extremely late delivery.
ascii_shmoocon: i said from day 1, it makes no sense to ~sell- miners.
mircea_popescu: it makes no sense to sell anything useful to the horde of reddidiots.
thestringpuller: ascii_shmoocon: i think the problem stretches to issue with building F-15 on own. re: thread on USG cartel of fabrication.
thestringpuller: instead of USG this time, it's d00ds who weren't good enough to be in the triads.
thestringpuller: ascii_shmoocon: and this is why KNC miner has huge classaction suit outstanding.
thestringpuller: none at all, but does serve as proof of the existence of said matter.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5700 @ 0.00052168 = 2.9736 BTC [-] {2}
ascii_shmoocon: aaaand mining does not forgive 2nd-best 'z80 is enough for soviet motherland'-ism.
ascii_shmoocon: for so long as somebody can cream you in production chain, he owns you
mircea_popescu: you drastically overvalue the liberty and importance of miners.
ascii_shmoocon: didja invent a means of dispensing with miners? I'm all ears
ascii_shmoocon: i can think of exactly one: an 'mp-hawala', where mo transacts with the other 17 or so olympians, indeed requires no minerz...
☟︎☟︎ jurov: imo if mining can't be avoided, ideal mining algorithm would be one that changes often, unpredictably and substantially
ascii_shmoocon: and I admit that I wondered since showing up, for what does he need btc, can hawala all day
mircea_popescu: jurov think about it : IF that were the case, then alf's fears about "whoever owns the production owns you" would be grounded.
jurov: if what were the case?
mircea_popescu: ascii_shmoocon you know it's a common wonderment on the part of the okcupid sluts, too, "why would one such of you need for okcupid". what need.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3990 @ 0.00052894 = 2.1105 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: jurov what you just described, my punishment algorithm implemented to mining
ascii_shmoocon: also random difficulty has a strong chance of putting you on pluto with no return ticket
jurov: yes, depends on mathematic discovery of class of functions that fulfills criteria, obv can't just decide workfunction willy nilly
mircea_popescu: haha wait, wait, there's a "class of functions" in the sky that'll come and deliver you ?
mircea_popescu: there's this ancient romanian rhyme, "caligula imperator si-a facut calul senator. petru groza, mai sinistru, si-a facut boul ministru". i can't help but think of it when would-be pygmalions are not content to merely cut themselves a fucktoy/mate out of stone
mircea_popescu: they go for the whole nine years, they're gonna make a clay divinity!
jurov: well, at least i can name the problem to ask perelman "want to generate infinite count asymetric functions, and they will each have distinct algorithm"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17700 @ 0.00052932 = 9.369 BTC [+] {7}
jurov: yeaaa...and symbolics sin and ...
jurov: babbage and turing and...
jurov: von neumann or not, we're still bound to turing-like machines that need to be fed algorithms. and maybe the algorithms can be mutated enough.
mircea_popescu: we also only hold hammers, and maybe the hits can be modulated enough! shall we try or shall we not.
thestringpuller: ascii_shmoocon: is it still problem is "sane" person owns production?
thestringpuller: ascii_shmoocon: cause right now it seems production is held by incompetent cartel, which is why I said it'd be less of problem if friedcat hadn't spit in MPEx's face.
jurov: for me the mining problem stems from clinging to precious few cryptohash functions, which are all amateur (not proven) anyway
jurov: i want infinite count of proven assymetric functions!!!!
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller true incompetence has a major advantage - it disperses.
mircea_popescu: ascii_shmoocon oh, ~here~ you see the danger do you ? :D
thestringpuller: jurov: all crypto functions will inevitably become obsolete no? thus at some point it will necesarily change.
mircea_popescu: jurov that's not necessarily a bad thing to want, on its own.
thestringpuller: ascii_shmoocon: competent one does not have === anti-christ
mircea_popescu: very valid place to invest a life in quite respectable research.
DerpUnion: are there any plans on attking any xchgs/processors who switch to classic
☟︎ DerpUnion: and by attking, i dun mean ddos, i mean wiping them clean off their bitcoins
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2334 @ 0.00052168 = 1.2176 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3142 @ 0.00053038 = 1.6665 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2479 @ 0.00052168 = 1.2932 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: "Well BitcoinClassic -- that, according to the Core devs, is a hostile fork -- already has the support of 70% of the miners.
mircea_popescu: The price did drop a little, but almost certainly because of Mike's pessimistic statements, not because of that "attack". So the first line of defense failed: it looks like the miners will not be "punished" financially for lifting the size limit -- quite the opposite."
mircea_popescu: did this guy ever do anything other than drive around looking for overturned garbage bins to sit in front of and selfie himself while explaining his theories about how moonrays cause littering and how the owls are to blame for moonrays ?
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 07:19:37; BingoBoingo: danielpbarron do either you or shinohai care to invite DiscusFish's macbook-air to channel?
mircea_popescu:
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374299 << there's nothing wrong with that, let them have it, and enjoy its fruits. there's a reason the correct stance is to cater to the comfort of the priviledged and [not incidentally, but deliberatelty and by design] step on the faces of the worthless. but nobody's reequired to accept this as some sort of gospel - let them walk the desert of eating rocks and shitting
☝︎ assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 11:08:22; thestringpuller: Bitcoin Classic doesn't even beat around the bush about it being socialist: "Our open source community prioritizes marginalized people’s safety over privileged people’s comfort."
mircea_popescu: nevertheless, in their case it's empty blathering. the words they say are the result of what they think would work best as a thing to say, not anything deeper than that. they'd say they believe in cinderella fucking papa bear while riding on a golden broomstick if that's what the focus groups preferred ot hear.
mircea_popescu:
http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=3657 << this is a nice and fine article, except at the part where the dude pretends like his betters - that is to say, rich people, white people, powerful people, me - are "an unknown quantity" and somehow an old policeman / janitor's relative is different. fuck that. you MAY have your little niceties, for jsut as long as you clearly understand that your role here is strictly t
☟︎☟︎ mircea_popescu: o protect MY old uncle and cuff the fucking street scum. that's how you may also, and to a lesser degree, take care of yours. that and that only.
mircea_popescu: but once you start with "Democratic" and bla bla - guess what. your crazy old uncle is first to be burned at the stake. because you are the servant, and that's how it goes.
mircea_popescu: "cross the imaginary, retrospectively hallucinated '''line'''" bs is worth about as much as the piss it carries.
ascii_rear: sooo the talk re: power grid in usa using unciphered rf for control was mildly amusing
mircea_popescu: ascii_rear isn't that straight out of the tinfoilhat annals ?
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 07:19:37; BingoBoingo: danielpbarron do either you or shinohai care to invite DiscusFish's macbook-air to channel?
ascii_rear: ancient modemz, electromechanical switch, etc
trinque: mircea_popescu: thanks. his escape from AWS is in the works.
trinque: I've also rewritten the IRC bot portion, and the new thing knows how to reclaim nick, and generally speaking doesn't suck.
trinque: just gotta get the services rewritten
jurov: lol i read alf got a car opener
jurov: which would be shocking given his strict-whitehat proclivities
BingoBoingo: shinohai: Actually if you just want to interview and so a qntra piece that would be swell
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2950 @ 0.00052731 = 1.5556 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: for the record fooplot.com actually spits out svg's! pretty cool.
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 17:43:00; mircea_popescu:
http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=3657 << this is a nice and fine article, except at the part where the dude pretends like his betters - that is to say, rich people, white people, powerful people, me - are "an unknown quantity" and somehow an old policeman / janitor's relative is different. fuck that. you MAY have your little niceties, for jsut as long as you clearly understand that your role
shinohai: BingoBoingo: if he writes back sure
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5850 @ 0.00052573 = 3.0755 BTC [-] {4}
shinohai: "Please send your questions to admin at f2pool dot com. Thanks." macbook-air
BingoBoingo: shinohai: Cool. It looks like you have a lead for that F2pool interview you're going to submit to Qntra.
shinohai: They seem to be going Classic no?
BingoBoingo: shinohai: No, they 'welcomed' classic which is being classtroturfed into support
BingoBoingo: IN other news Selkis is going over to Coindesk since Silbert owns them both.
jurov: no idea about either derp
jurov: should i know them?
BingoBoingo: Offensive comments related to ... body size << It's because Gavin's bulking isn't it?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2706 @ 0.00052369 = 1.4171 BTC [+] {2}
mod6: just needed to build gdb inside of the rotor, that i think was my problemo.
mod6: was able to build v7.10
gribble: BTCChina BTCRMB last: 2571.21, vol: 79290.02680000 | Volume-weighted last average: 2571.21
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 386.28, vol: 13408.56292557 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 386.443, vol: 9315.19385 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 387.64, vol: 34099.66123462 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 370.0, vol: 6.40632189 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 391.732353, vol: 79280.31390000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 388.3002, vol: 284.25406211 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 386.8158, vol: 79.12573361 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
jurov: mod6 why gdb? systemwide gdb works fine
punkman: does trb relay txs with op_return outputs?
mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo>
http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=17-01-2016#1374493 << In Lafondtology 'betters' are a known quantity as well. They attack down so avoid or appease. << oh, lafond himself gets the thing pretty close. it is a class thing. the problem is the speaker, who, like a bunch of his brethren, ended up in this weirdo alt-reality where THEY are the upper class.
☝︎ assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 17:43:00; mircea_popescu:
http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=3657 << this is a nice and fine article, except at the part where the dude pretends like his betters - that is to say, rich people, white people, powerful people, me - are "an unknown quantity" and somehow an old policeman / janitor's relative is different. fuck that. you MAY have your little niceties, for jsut as long as you clearly understand that your role
mircea_popescu: you know there;'s a bloodletting coming by the time the fucking footpad imagines himself the baron outright.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3000 @ 0.00053068 = 1.592 BTC [+] {4}
BingoBoingo thought Lafond made it clear he exists on bottom. Only spared fatal predation so far because prickly.
BingoBoingo: Same reason porcupine is decidedly NOT king of the forest
assbot: In an almost totally un-talked about change to the protocol bitcoin now has the innovative feature of just totally throwing away transactions. : Buttcoin ... (
http://bit.ly/1ZEZBnO )
jurov: would be hilarious if they reused my hack
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo yeh. he was quoting some policeman dude tho
mircea_popescu: lol bitcoin core's implementing teh b-a mempool limit stuff ? ha-ha.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2500 @ 0.0005307 = 1.3268 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: "What I'm doing with my life...Working in electronics company.."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6294 @ 0.00053089 = 3.3414 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7300 @ 0.00052771 = 3.8523 BTC [-] {3}
mod6: <+jurov> mod6 why gdb? systemwide gdb works fine << my gentoo didn't have gdb built via portage, so when I went to build that, it blew up (re: yesterday).
mod6: instead, just pulled the source and built inside the rotor so it would be built with the gcc/musl that comes with buildroot
☟︎ mod6: that way i can actually debug my bitcoind with musl symbols etc.
shinohai: I bought a bottle of muscadine wine to pop open the minute mine finally syncs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2200 @ 0.00053151 = 1.1693 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo amazed that with his new lifestyle he can get a can of decent coffee that last a week and has the same cost as a cheap 5th of vodka
pete_dushenski: wouldja look at that... mpex sinks 'bitcoinclassic' and mpoe bust through 53. what a coincidence :P
BingoBoingo: lol, they are also bumping protocol version bit: "Support for the NODE_BLOOM service bit, as described in BIP 111, has been added to the P2P protocol code.
BingoBoingo: BIP 111 defines a service bit to allow peers to advertise that they support bloom filters (such as used by SPV clients) explicitly. It also bumps the protocol version to allow peers to identify old nodes which allow bloom filtering of the connection despite lacking the new service bit.
BingoBoingo: In this version, it is only enforced for peers that send protocol versions >=70011 . For the next major version it is planned that this restriction will be removed. It is recommended to update SPV clients to check for the NODE_BLOOM service bit for nodes that report versions newer than 70011." end powerspam
☟︎ ben_vulpes: ;;later tell asciilifeform i'm suffering from a failure of imagination--care to link me to the thread where you explain how a cc would work without miners?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3600 @ 0.00053152 = 1.9135 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 16:44:07; ascii_shmoocon: i can think of exactly one: an 'mp-hawala', where mo transacts with the other 17 or so olympians, indeed requires no minerz...
BingoBoingo: My how things have changed from 2014. TMSR has a fallback plan nao: Become Olympus!
phf: this is where it's all going, pgpgrams over gossip of v-ified ledgers
phf: (what the hell happened to linux ecosystem? 5-th tutorial on "openvpn on linux" is basically "make sure you have file a, file b and file c. now click open in open-gnome-vpn-assistant..")
☟︎ pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: i suppose they'd be more expensive, perhaps even too expensive to cost-effectively use.
pete_dushenski: you speak as if it's a certainty, or at least as if it were a certainty, that it'd matter.
☟︎ pete_dushenski: asciilifeform: if faced with ru roads, i'd drive g-wagon, as ru'ians do.
ben_vulpes: anyways an entirely viable future is one wherein the various lords with computing gear remaining in the closet operate their own bitcoind variants as local banks, holding chits for the peasants and reconciling over shortwave gpggram
ben_vulpes: ofc one could also do entirely away with the 'cc' part.
ben_vulpes: gotta kill the megastates first though.
ben_vulpes: yeah well who knows how the trajectory actually draws through the possibility space
BingoBoingo: "In initial implementations, old nodes which are not yet aware of NODE_BLOOM and use a protocol version < 70011 may still send filter messages to a node without NODE_BLOOM. This feature may be removed after there are sufficient NODE_BLOOM nodes available and SPV clients have upgraded, allowing node operators to fully close the bloom-related DoS vectors."
ben_vulpes regards the vast pile of oddities that sorta-worked
ben_vulpes: actually the waste oil furnace was pretty good
ben_vulpes: piston was for lulzy undergraduate water cooled lfr engine design with reciprocating pistons to pressurize fuel lines
ben_vulpes: learned that turbo machinery is clearly the correct solution
ben_vulpes: furnace was for heating warehouse where i was working
ben_vulpes: there was a chinese restaurant giving it away up the street!
ben_vulpes maggot, proud to find free energy around
ben_vulpes: pumped water through the furnace, up to our shop, and through an old car radiator with a fan behind it.
ben_vulpes: did not work as well as the radiant attachments atop the propane tank
ben_vulpes: also blew crap all over the shop while i was finishing tables and whatnot, so eventually decommissioned.
ben_vulpes: co poisoning not really an issue, it's a slow flow over some steel mesh, more or less everything burns off on the mesh going to co2
assbot: Add NODE_BLOOM service bit and bump protocol version by TheBlueMatt · Pull Request #6579 · bitcoin/bitcoin · GitHub ... (
http://bit.ly/1ZuhGj2 )
ben_vulpes: well, "most" relative to volume of shop.
ben_vulpes: you want the eye of sauron: mr heater mh15t
ben_vulpes: only time i ever came close to death by co2 was operating the concrete cutter in someone's basement
punkman: wood stove that vents outside mebbe
ben_vulpes: anyways, doesn't get hot enough to do the radiant trick, you end up heating the whole place instead of the place where you are.
☟︎ ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: what is with you and unsanitary working conditions
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7100 @ 0.00053152 = 3.7738 BTC [+]
punkman: asciilifeform: why not on wooden floor
phf: warehouses are expensive in dc area. it's some sort of idiot bubble, because you can rent warehouse space by acres in baltimore and whereabouts, only an hour away
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 20:54:44; mod6: instead, just pulled the source and built inside the rotor so it would be built with the gcc/musl that comes with buildroot
ben_vulpes: did i hear that someone managed to get rotor to clobber their whole homedir?
phf: fwiw, i've ran it on large data before and it was constant faster then bsd awk that comes with os x
BingoBoingo: Anyone with a better idea of how the network works want to look into the NODE_BLOOM business and see if the implementation is yet another effort to isolate our noadz
☟︎ BingoBoingo: In other news/goalposts power rangers appear to be targeting a complete OpenSSL excision by 0.13
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4800 @ 0.00052927 = 2.5405 BTC [-] {3}
mod6: asciilifeform: punindented was trying to help out a bit -- he hit that weird bug with vdiff on ubuntu or debian or something, when then reminded me that I lost your fix for that. I've searched through logs many times, can't seem to find it. I did actually ask yesterday too:
mod6: <+mod6> asciilifeform: hey, for a long time now I've been searching for the fix you provided to vdiff for debian/ubuntu; for some reason it barfs saying that there is an unmatched quote or something.
☟︎ mod6: so if you have yours somewhere it'd be awesome to get that and place it somewhere so I don't lose it again.
mod6: <+asciilifeform> ben_vulpes: if you try hard, and violate instructions sufficiently liberally, you can probably rm -rf your ENTIRE HOUSE << yes someone did do this.
mod6: and blew away their pgp keys too.
mod6: so make sure you have your keys backed up!
mod6: and don't nuke your entire world.
hanbot takes out an extra pinky finger to hold aloft
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5600 @ 0.00052854 = 2.9598 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 21:18:20; phf: (what the hell happened to linux ecosystem? 5-th tutorial on "openvpn on linux" is basically "make sure you have file a, file b and file c. now click open in open-gnome-vpn-assistant..")
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 21:21:26; asciilifeform: to even contemplate the notion that it doesn't matter, or to suggest that it is anything short of certain, betrays a deep ignorance of the actual making-things business as it stands for the last 200 yr.
mircea_popescu: again : the volume of production and the relationships between people are unrelated.
mircea_popescu: you have no reason to suspect FEWER boeings would be produced, or in use, if only one person in ten was a citizen, and the rest nine slaves.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: there's nothing but fartware and wishful thinking backing this notion that "every idiot getting 10 dollars to spend is the best possible world", pangloss.
mircea_popescu: for all you know the world where every derp and his ten dollars causes britney spears is the world where quality musical instruments do not exist.
mircea_popescu: for all you know the world of manufacturing was lots and lots more powerful back when trhey were supplying bach's needs than sepultura's.
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 21:20:50; pete_dushenski: you speak as if it's a certainty, or at least as if it were a certainty, that it'd matter.
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 21:34:20; asciilifeform: unvented combustion sucks.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1950 @ 0.00052727 = 1.0282 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 21:36:22; ben_vulpes: anyways, doesn't get hot enough to do the radiant trick, you end up heating the whole place instead of the place where you are.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform oh tell me more about how sane people don't get carbide this or that, please.
mircea_popescu: i never lived in a fucking hovel where the heating wasn't vented, either outside the wall or in specially made vents ffs.
mircea_popescu: anyway, so if it's a wooden shed, cut a hole, add a pipe and some insulation, done.
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 21:42:28; asciilifeform: 10,000 sq. ft. for a dollar/mo. each? sure. 1000 ? go away. etc
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i did! you wouldn't even fuck the eager gypsy girls!
mircea_popescu: now granted, it was just a concrete slab with corrugated sheet walls and roof.
mircea_popescu: ironically, the locals were kinda jealous of the guy, because it comes out that doing a 40 x 100 metre concrete slab and surrounding it in basically an elaborate, roofed fence costs less than building an actual house, and brought in rent slightly more.
mircea_popescu: middle of nowhere, but hey, it had natl road access right by the door.
mircea_popescu: anyway. back in the day "warehouse" meant brick wall, etc.
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 23:10:18; mircea_popescu: you have no reason to suspect FEWER boeings would be produced, or in use, if only one person in ten was a citizen, and the rest nine slaves.
mircea_popescu: look at my most recent article, the curve is there and intuitively obvious what's meant.
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 22:20:36; mod6: <+mod6> asciilifeform: hey, for a long time now I've been searching for the fix you provided to vdiff for debian/ubuntu; for some reason it barfs saying that there is an unmatched quote or something.
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 21:42:28; asciilifeform: 10,000 sq. ft. for a dollar/mo. each? sure. 1000 ? go away. etc
mod6: asciilifeform: no i don't think so.
mircea_popescu: heck, i guess in practice every insanity's heard of, including to subdivide a woman unawares.
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 22:05:27; BingoBoingo: Anyone with a better idea of how the network works want to look into the NODE_BLOOM business and see if the implementation is yet another effort to isolate our noadz
assbot: Logged on 17-01-2016 22:12:09; BingoBoingo: In other news/goalposts power rangers appear to be targeting a complete OpenSSL excision by 0.13
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5300 @ 0.00052404 = 2.7774 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform confucius say, better share toothbrush than buttplug.
punkman: I think I had that error, just changed around the quoting of the vdiff command
mod6: yeah, this seems to be the case on ubuntu & deb (iirc), only works on gentoo for me. you fixed this once iirc. but i've since lost the changes :/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.00052999 = 2.7559 BTC [+] {3}
punkman: mod6, here's my version: diff -uNr $1 $2 | awk 'm = /^(---|\+\+\+)/{s="sha512sum \"" $2 "\" 2>/dev/null " | getline x; if (s) { split(x, a, " "); o = a[1]; } else {o = "false";} print $1 " " $2 " " o} !m { print $0 }'
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo "Bitstamp has emailed users stating it has banned access from all IP addresses originating from the Russian Federation access to the Bitcoin exchange."
guruvan: mod6: that image I made last night isn't working - there's a fork at block 168000 that it's not liking
punkman: guruvan: possibly because of openssl version
mircea_popescu: gah, is half our documentation unmaintained / out of date by now ?
guruvan: asciilifeform: working on a trb docker image - looks like was 168000 p2sh ?
mircea_popescu: listen, ben_vulpes mod6 you gotta have a process to prevent this situation. no documentation is bad. wrong or obsolete documentation is way way worse.
guruvan: I'm not using that - I'm building straight from a tarball
guruvan: mircea_popescu: docker image Dockerfile helps document buld process -that part of why I do these
mircea_popescu: lotta people suddenly got interested, caught us with the pants down in a very wrong spot to have pants down.
guruvan: sorta - I think I have everything in the current mirror set all figured out - haven't tried to build anything outta that yet
guruvan: I got V working, synced and all, just not tried to do a build with it yet
guruvan: more or less tried all the pertinent commands - made sure it seemed set up right
guruvan: seriously asciilifeform what's up there
guruvan: I was wondering about this when I saw this in the logs today (on classic?)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> holy shit, year-old instructions ?!!1 << the link he gave references a log line by me from just before xmas.
guruvan: there some more docs on the rotor script? this looks like the mojo I'm looking for for the simple docker "whip up a node for testing" builds
guruvan: why this is even in the code in the first place is a mystery
mircea_popescu: standard explanation, "it has some pores dept x needs"
mircea_popescu: most of the time it's junk anyway, but hey, bureaucracy prevails!
guruvan: LOL :) some pores compay ABC needs ;)