mircea_popescu: it prolly is mutual at that.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3150 @ 0.00065754 = 2.0713 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12034 @ 0.00065754 = 7.9128 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2599 @ 0.00066027 = 1.716 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: scoopbot -fetch
scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by Bingo Boingo: http://qntra.net/2015/01/bitpay-lays-off-9-employees-today/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15334 @ 0.00066036 = 10.126 BTC [+] {2}
PeterL: you know, you could pm him -fetch
BingoBoingo: Really?
PeterL: yeah
mircea_popescu: i recall reading that yeah
BingoBoingo: Cool
PeterL: if you pm him, you don't need to include scoopbot, just -fetch
BingoBoingo: https://i.imgur.com/rleY22W.png
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1yMswc1 )
kakobrekla: !s fetch from:kakobrekla
assbot: 8 results for 'fetch from:kakobrekla' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=fetch+from%3Akakobrekla
kakobrekla: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-01-2015#966068 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 05-01-2015 17:57:08; kakobrekla: i dont get this scoopbot 30 min delay + fetch command. when i setup rss feed for herr vulpes jenkins (which is now offline for some reason) i hit it once a minute cause i give no fucks. no need for this -fetch nonsense if you change the interval to something saner.
kakobrekla: and few lines more.
cazalla: i don't know if anyone saw that ipad game that pays out 0.0001.. i fucked around with it for an hour or so and earned 0.0003, i'm sure some indian is setting up a sweatshop to farm it 24/7 as we speak
BingoBoingo: lol
asciilifeform: cazalla: this kind of thing has been done in the past; e.g., amazon corp's 'mechanical turk'
PeterL: what do you do in this game to earn it?
cazalla: asciilifeform, but this app pays out the moment it awards you, i'm trying to think of a homer simpson drinking bird means of doing it but no go
asciilifeform: cazalla: instrumented emulator.
cazalla: PeterL, you throw a monkey as far as you can plus the dev alleges he will use the in-game adsense type revenue to purchase more bitcoin and increase the bitcoin payouts for users https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1bxTbByVkQ
assbot: SaruTobi - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1yMtDIN )
davout: PeterL: could you add http://fr.anco.is to scoopbot?
assbot: fr.anco.is | bitcoin et al. ... ( http://bit.ly/1yMtMvO )
cazalla: you wouldn't bother playing it for the payouts but i'm sure someone for who $2 a day is a lot would find it worthwhile
PeterL: davout sure
davout: ty!
mircea_popescu: cazalla $2 a day can't be a lot if you're stuck with a $500 piece of machinery + the bills for its maintenance.
asciilifeform: unless the $500 machine emulates 100,000 click-idiots
cazalla: steal one from whitey
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/02KJQCR.txt )
BingoBoingo: !b 3
PeterL: davout: let me know if your posts don't show up
kakobrekla: actually i can just make assbot pm scoopbot 'fetch' every 30 seconds and noone will ever know i fixed it.
mircea_popescu: lmao
mircea_popescu: PeterL how often does it scan feeds anyway ?
mircea_popescu: can it be set so it scans every minute, on a diff second by the blog list ?
PeterL: kakobrekla: scoopbot is set to check blogs every 5 minutes, some people are impatient
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla is 5 minutes too slo ?!
mircea_popescu: i thought it was like a half hour
kakobrekla: i just find the whole fetch command thing silly.
PeterL: I think it might have been 15 minutes when I first made it?
kakobrekla: possibru
PeterL: well, cazalla asked for it, and it seemed easy enough to include
kakobrekla: 5 is better i guess idk rss sucks scam
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla srsly polling much more frequently than that's just a waste.
kakobrekla: yes there is only 20 years of internets left to go around
kakobrekla: use it slowly.
mircea_popescu: eh the world will live for five minutes at a stretch.
scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by thestringpuller: http://qntra.net/2015/01/the-hard-fork-missile-crisis/
mircea_popescu: PeterL i even excluded your parser from teh branding programme
PeterL: branding program?
BingoBoingo: Branding Pogrom?
mircea_popescu: if you look at the feeds they start with a token which describes the parser for my use
mircea_popescu: i used it extensively in the 2010-2011 period to identify and ban content spinners
mircea_popescu: haven't had a problem since.
PeterL: Is that what that garbledy gook is at the start of the feed summary is?
mircea_popescu: yeah
PeterL: EG "NjkuMTYyLjY0Ljgy What's anon talking about ?"
mircea_popescu: yes
PeterL: so that tell you what parser accessed your site?
mircea_popescu: yes.
mircea_popescu: then if i see my stuff republished on mfa farms/whatever later on, it's trivial to ban the leech.
PeterL: aha, I see. please don't ban me
mircea_popescu: no the reverse.
mircea_popescu: it shouldn't pop in your feeds no more.
asciilifeform: http://www-library.desy.de/preparch/books/death-rays.pdf << no, not really plaintextable. but interesting.
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1I4ICzd )
PeterL: "NDkxNDIwODUyMDg4fDY5LjE2Mi42NC44Mg== What's anon talking about" I think it got longer?
asciilifeform: (the first work i've chanced into on this subject, in many years, that isn't a regurgitation of old, tired pablum)
mircea_popescu: uhm.
asciilifeform: it's actually about embezzlement
asciilifeform: of reichsmarks, naturally
asciilifeform: 'for science!'
mircea_popescu: PeterL you actually using multiple ips ?!
asciilifeform: decimation, ben_vulpes, undata ^ recommended reading
PeterL: well, there are two, one for the scoopbot and one for the blog agregator
mircea_popescu: well they got whitelisted both.
PeterL: is that going to take some time to take effect?
mircea_popescu: as soon as varnish catches on, i guess.
punkman: asciilifeform genuinely wonderf wtf happened to deedbot 2 << lack of hosting admin, mostly
punkman: mircea_popescu: punkman is off the deedbot project after the horrid failure of the past month << I accept that
PeterL: punkman: you are saying the thing works, you just need a server to run it on?
punkman: no it needs a sysadmin for the server, plenty of servers to be had
punkman: Azelphur offered to do it couple of days ago, but too late I guess
PeterL: asciilifeform: your linked death-ray pdf, in text: http://nopdf.btcscoop.com/data/29ye5N
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1I4MLmG )
asciilifeform: PeterL: considerably less interesting without illustrations. and mangled formatting.
asciilifeform: PeterL: the 'it's still a turd, not sausage, even with relish' principle applies even here.
asciilifeform: PeterL: and we all have 'pdf2txt' or the like on our boxes. it isn't a solution.
undata: asciilifeform: thank you sir; I will
PeterL: " bullets with enormous electric charges would be accelerated in a special valve and emmited with several times the velocity of light." <<< lol
asciilifeform: PeterL: at the time, various folks (including mr. t) were experimenting with electron tubes of various descriptions. t claimed to have one 'open to the air' on one end (!)
asciilifeform: !s valvular conduit
assbot: 0 results for 'valvular conduit' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=valvular+conduit
asciilifeform: ;;google valvular conduit
gribble: Nikola Tesla'sValvular Conduit best video - YouTube: <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XhJtSqLz88Q>; Tesla valve - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_valve>; Nikola Tesla's "Valvular Conduit" -- The Tesla Gas Turbine Patent: <http://www.tfcbooks.com/patents/1329559.htm>
asciilifeform: you can build one. it sort-of works.
asciilifeform: about 1/3 greater velocity of flow in one direction than another.
decimation: asciilifeform: "Germán Armando Plett’s knowledge was scraped together from the ‘Deutsche La Plata Zeitung’ (German La Plata Newspaper) and the nightly German radio broadcasts he was devoted to." << shortwave broadcast is dying, I guess because internet
asciilifeform: decimation: don't be so quick to bury it. there's plenty on the air - just not in english.
decimation: deutsche welle, in particular, doesn't broadcast in german anymore (to my knowledge)
decimation: I think Russia still operates their Russian foreign broadcast service
decimation: So does China
asciilifeform: sw is 'the spare internet.'
asciilifeform: best to not forget it entirely.
decimation: the problem is that the 'image' of shortwave is AM broadcast, but nothing prevents advanced digital schemes
asciilifeform: aside from atrocious 'lossiness' - but this is where highly-efficient 'graceful degradation' schemes like fountain-coding come in.
asciilifeform: (using the latter, conceivably, you might leave your receiver running for three days and in the end a light comes on; and then you can hear an hour-long broadcast.)
PeterL: how high of bandwidth could you transmit over shortwave?
decimation: well, it's not just the high noise - it's also the terrible multipath that arises due to ionospheric propagation
decimation: but multipath can also be an advantage...
decimation: PeterL: a 'standard' shortwave channel is 4 kHz in width, through which you can push maybe a few kilobits/sec depending on what kind of scheme you are using
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> (using the latter, conceivably, you might leave your receiver running for three days and in the end a light comes on; and then you can hear an hour-long broadcast.) << could leave it right to the rainfall collecting bucket
mircea_popescu: and listen to it while you bathe.
asciilifeform: ^ aha.
asciilifeform: (pessimistically)
mircea_popescu: anyway, it may be that the entanglement experiments come to fruition, and shortwave as well as the current telco version of internet become obsolete at the same time.
mircea_popescu: instead, people having in their house the quantum equiv of gossipd
decimation: asciilifeform: herr shannon's limit ultimately governs your ability to push bits through a channel
mircea_popescu: (incidentally, that's kind of what that's designed with in mind. if we get quantum boxes, gossipd will be the killer app for it)
asciilifeform: decimation: more prosaically, details like sunspot cycle and whether you are being jammed (deliberately or otherwise)
asciilifeform: entanglement << dicy, as it mostly entails ftl
mircea_popescu: quite dicy yes
decimation: indeed, as well as fine-grained details like your latitude, time of day, solar flares, etc
mircea_popescu: but that'll happen before "quantumcomputing" of any description, so...
decimation: if anyone is interested in simulation, usg publishes a free software package to simulate shortwave paths: http://www.voacap.com/prediction.html
assbot: VOACAP Online - professional-grade high-frequency (3-30 MHz) point-to-point propagation predictions ... ( http://bit.ly/1I4R1mm )
asciilifeform: entanglement diddling makes exotica like gravimetric comms, neutrino beam (!), etc. look realistic.
decimation: (that is a web 2.0 'front end' to the prediction program
PeterL: would 3-d printing help in manufacturing on of those tesla valves?
asciilifeform: btw entanglement to transmit rng to two ends is sop
mircea_popescu: kinda what quantum noise means
asciilifeform: (transmit synchronously)
BingoBoingo: http://krebsonsecurity.com/2015/01/lizard-stresser-runs-on-hacked-home-routers/
assbot: Lizard Stresser Runs on Hacked Home Routers — Krebs on Security ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZBt1L )
BingoBoingo: No surprises
mircea_popescu: heh. what's per pps cost ? or how do they price ?
BingoBoingo: Haven't looked.
mircea_popescu: "The botnet is not made entirely of home routers; some of the infected hosts appear to be commercial routers at universities and companies"
mircea_popescu: orly. im sure they're "commercial" in a sense other than, "moar bezzle"
asciilifeform: like most chumpnets.
mircea_popescu: "While you’re monkeying around with your router setting, consider changing the router’s default DNS servers to those maintained by OpenDNS."
mircea_popescu: it's funny how these write-ups never fail to include some call or other to "join the horde"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: traditionally they invite you to use google's dns (
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0E4842G.txt )
BingoBoingo: !b 3
mircea_popescu: the agenda of computing security is moved towards increased pwnability in the exact same way and for the exact same reasons the agenda of political discussion is moved towards increasing socialism.
asciilifeform: there isn't a 'good' dns, though. the very concept is a kind of contradiction, like a pleasant jail
asciilifeform: one can picture a terrible, mexican jail
asciilifeform: and a very demented isp with malignantly spamwildcardy dns
asciilifeform: but not 'good'
mircea_popescu: but one can readily understand why a verizon for dns is worse than any alternative.
asciilifeform: i'm told that other major telcos in usa have something not unlike it.
asciilifeform: mega-lol!! :
asciilifeform: 'hackforums'
asciilifeform: anyone who wants a good laugh, should visit the site
asciilifeform: these folks actually -buy- malware from one another
asciilifeform: and 'installs' (i.e. chumps)
assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/10K1DFP.txt )
BingoBoingo: !b 4
asciilifeform: often, even when source for xxxx is available, an idiot will pay (good money) to have 'a build'
mircea_popescu: why not ?
asciilifeform: spammers abound, offering 'installs' or soliciting to spam by the pound
[]bot: Bet placed: 4.72760085 BTC for Yes on "Cardano to Ship in 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1100/ Odds: 83(Y):17(N) by coin, 83(Y):17(N) by weight. Total bet: 5.97039888 BTC. Current weight: 99,745.
asciilifeform: sites like 'hackforum' are probably responsible for the 'man on the street' believing that there are vast oceans of money in crapware
asciilifeform: whereas many if not most of the folks involved have little intention (or ability) to pay the promised sums, or deliver, in many cases, the goods
asciilifeform: (some - do, sure; but adding up all of the 'puts' and 'asks', if you will, at face value, is still naive)
mircea_popescu: re http://bitbet.us/bet/1100/cardano-to-ship-in-2015/#b5 : after an ad-hoc consultation half hour ago, the s.nsa board authorised a 4.72760085 BTC bet on the delivery side (1% of s.nsa equity).
assbot: BitBet - Cardano to Ship in 2015 :: 4.93 B (83%) on Yes, 1.04 B (17%) on No | closing in 11 months 1 week| weight: 99`744 (100`000 to 1) ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZCXZY )
mircea_popescu: i
asciilifeform: ^
mircea_popescu: i'm counting it as a marketing expense, unless we win, in which case hey, free money.
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2013/the-positive-market-effects-of-the-delivery-bet/ for background
assbot: The positive market effects of the delivery bet. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZDb3j )
asciilifeform: 'Based on information provided by A.B., the Secret Service used facial recognition to identify Jack Farrel as Ryan Andrew Gustafson.”' (krebs)
decimation: lol ascii did you put your last bitcoin on 'no'?
asciilifeform: funny how this mostly slipped by
asciilifeform: decimation: lol!
mircea_popescu: who was jack farrell
asciilifeform: http://krebsonsecurity.com/2014/12/alleged-counterfeiter-willy-clock-arrested
assbot: Alleged Counterfeiter “Willy Clock” Arrested — Krebs on Security ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZDoU5 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5407 @ 0.00066646 = 3.6035 BTC [+]
[]bot: Bet created: "Gold to drop under $1000 before March 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1101/
decimation: lol "According to the government’s complaint (PDF), the email address that Gustafson provided on his U.S. passport application was the same one he allegedly used to maintain a Facebook account under the Jack Farrel alias."
asciilifeform: http://krebsonsecurity.com/2014/07/even-script-kids-have-a-right-to-be-forgotten << another lol from krebs, re: 'hackforum'
assbot: Even Script Kids Have a Right to Be Forgotten — Krebs on Security ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZDyLa )
BingoBoingo: A Poetteringism http://www.spinics.net/lists/fedora-devel/msg204236.html
assbot: Fedora Development -- Re: timedatex replacing systemd-timedated for NTP packages ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZDB9X )
danielpbarron: !up beautyon
beautyon: So it's war then.
BingoBoingo: Yeah
BingoBoingo: This war was foretold long ago http://trilema.com/2012/the-tundra-artichoke-from-frozen-hell/
assbot: The tundra artichoke from frozen hell. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZDScW )
mircea_popescu: lolwut
mircea_popescu: wtf bs "right to be forgotten". there's no such right, unless they're forgotten they're remembered.
beautyon: The enemy must be contacting all the miners in private to get them to switch. Or is that irrelevant?
decimation: the romans tried damnatio memoriae
decimation: didn't work very well
asciilifeform: the phrase is, i think, a reference to an eu-ism
asciilifeform: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/right-to-be-forgotten
assbot: Right to be forgotten | Technology | The Guardian ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZE8bU )
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo am i thick or is the answer about as related to what it quotes as gavin's "covered" is related to economy ?
BingoBoingo: !up Percy_Montesquie
mircea_popescu: beautyon even if a vast majority of miners switch it still doesn't do anything for him.
mircea_popescu: doubt they will. some pool ops might be clueless enough to try and hijack the network to please gavin/usg, but that's ok, they'll get shot later.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I'm just building a metaphor based on Past Trilema posts which is surprising easy when you write as much as you. I figure the Tundra artichokes can be worked into a sort of Tarqin/Poppy reference.
mircea_popescu: lol
decimation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Yezhov << Yezhov was friends with Stalin
assbot: Nikolai Yezhov - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZElM0 )
mircea_popescu: i had plainly forgotten that article, imagine my surprise when i see an unfamilir title called up and the server actually respond.
beautyon: mircea_popescu: Surely he must know in that case that he cannot possibly win and this change will be rejected. It means forsaking control of the future direction of the standard and ceding it to you.
BingoBoingo: Well isn't that what Trilema's for. So you can save your memory's immediate recall juice for more pressing issues.
BingoBoingo: beautyon: Gavin really doesn't even seem to like Bitcoin that much anymore.
beautyon: BingoBoingo: Then he should walk away. Unless he _likes_ being a lightning rod.
BingoBoingo: beautyon: Well he can't quit without becoming a nobody so he prolly figures he might as well try to kill the thing himself.
mircea_popescu: beautyon i don't think you understand how the us politico mind works.
beautyon: BingoBoingo: I actually believe that might be true on a subconscious level. Astonishing.
mircea_popescu: as far as they're concerned, any stupidity they try is ok, "nobody could have foreseen it won't work" and it's putin's fault.
BingoBoingo: beautyon: If you want a historical thing similarly sank by mircea_popescu http://trilema.com/2013/soft-consensus-aka-fecal-matter/
assbot: Soft consensus, aka fecal matter. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZETl2 )
mircea_popescu: i fully expect them to try, fail, and then spend the next six months writing how mp is a scammer all over reddit/the boy's bathroom
BingoBoingo: ;;google stock exchange holders on welfare
gribble: The Implications of Limited Stock Market Participation for ...: <>; How Shareholders Are Hurting America - ProPublica: <http://www.propublica.org/thetrade/item/how-shareholders-are-hurting-america>; Real Output OF Stock Exchange.pdf - Stanford University: (1 more message)
BingoBoingo: ;;google site:trilema.com stock exchange holders on welfare
gribble: The stockexchange shareholders on welfare pe Trilema - Un blog ...: <http://trilema.com/2012/the-stockexchange-shareholders-on-welfare/>
mircea_popescu: i don't know that vessenes' happy scamfarm is or ever was involved in anything to do with standards.
mircea_popescu: for that matter, bitcoin does have a standards body, http://thebitcoin.foundation/
assbot: ..::[ The Bitcoin Foundation ]::.. ... ( http://bit.ly/1ykJZq5 )
beautyon: mircea_popescu: as long as it stays on Reddit that's fine. They had better prepare to back down quickly, or suffer losses. Sadly these feeble men run to the courts habitually which may or may not be a nuisance.
mircea_popescu: eh, you need money for that.
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "Gold to drop under $1000 before March 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1101/ Odds: 92(Y):8(N) by coin, 92(Y):8(N) by weight. Total bet: 1.1 BTC. Current weight: 99,962.
mircea_popescu: vessenes' outta dough, the rest of the scammers involved are barely solvent and burried under tons of lawsuits (karpeles, caleb, ver, kenna, you name it)
mircea_popescu: they recently announced "they will focus on btc core", ie, "we can't afford anything past gavin's salary". and not even that for all of 2015.
mircea_popescu: so... it's a wart in full process of taking care of itself.
decimation: I wonder why there is so much action against gold
beautyon: Andressen, Wilson, Brito: two multi millionaire Statists and a Washington wonk, hell bent on the law. It will be interesting to see if they are for fork / suicide.
mircea_popescu: what wilson ? cody ?!
beautyon: If only!
joecool: mircea_popescu: nice domain for the foundation, did you guys actually fix 0.5.3 to fetch all blocks???
mircea_popescu: iirc mod6 reported that this is now the case
mircea_popescu: in the most recent monthly address
mircea_popescu: beautyon who then ? that guy with a blog, whatever it was called ?
beautyon: https://twitter.com/fredwilson/status/552496826646278146
assbot: 2/ the answer is not to ignore them or fight them. the answer is to educate them, inform them, and work with them
mircea_popescu: o, that dood. *shrug*
BingoBoingo: Ah, the comedian
mircea_popescu: i have my doubts he's allowed to commit anything past words in this matter.
mircea_popescu: anyway, he's welcome to participate in bitcoin just as soon as he completes his log reading stage and persuades anyone his head's not full of straw.
beautyon: Their loss of control is going to harden their attitudes. I can't wait to see them squirm.
BingoBoingo: They never really had control of anything.
mircea_popescu: beautyon anyway, for a very instructive example of how the courts work for bitcoin "captn's of industry", there's that recent hashfast debacle
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/hashfast-or-why-the-fiat-legal-system-doesnt-actually-exist-and-doesnt-actually-matter/
assbot: HashFast - or why the fiat legal system doesn't actually exist and doesn't actually matter pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZFUK5 )
danielpbarron: !up beautyon
beautyon: BingoBoingo: That realization will make them even MOAR furious. They are out of time, and these silly associations are window dressing at best.
BingoBoingo: beautyon: I don't see how they could not know. I mean they can't even get their favorite to stop bleeding because they pay $145/CPM for TV marketing
mircea_popescu: yeah, a lot of ground has been lost since the hearn attack.
mircea_popescu: wasn't such a smart move, that.
mircea_popescu: and for that matter, i marked mtgox for death in april, they struggled to prop it for six months before abandoning it ignominously, i do not believe they do not know they can not stand.
mircea_popescu: the half or so that's left, anyway.
mircea_popescu: actually... quarter i guess. buncha people left last year too didn't they. is murky boy still involved ?
BingoBoingo: Murckckkck left the Fundnation
BingoBoingo: Because he just wanted to lobby
mircea_popescu: ah ok.
beautyon: That HashFast schmuck had good lawyers.
mircea_popescu: beautyon hardly.
mircea_popescu: you don't pay good lawyers out of 50k a year.
mircea_popescu: wait no. 50k net worth and 500 a month.
beautyon: But didn't he just walk away essentially?
BingoBoingo: Oh he got the whole farm
mircea_popescu: this is the rule in corp bankruptcy proceedings as administered in the us
mircea_popescu: you actually do better by not even hiring a lawyer.
mod6: <+joecool> mircea_popescu: nice domain for the foundation, did you guys actually fix 0.5.3 to fetch all blocks??? << yup.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> you actually do better by not even hiring a lawyer. << Personal bankruptcy differs in that you get a lawyer because it compells phone spam aggro to their number and not yours
mircea_popescu: sure, personal's anothermatter, especially if you had any assets.
decimation: personal bankruptcy is basically a well-oiled chumpatron
joecool: mod6: solid, i'll open a bug to get it included in gentoo (and troll Luke-Jr)
mircea_popescu: lol
mod6: :D
BingoBoingo: <joecool> mod6: solid, i'll open a bug to get it included in gentoo (and troll Luke-Jr) << He prolly has a historical version of his patch set s should be fine with it.
BingoBoingo: !up shovel_boss_
beautyon: By the way, are you going to publish a low level guide to warn everyone thinking about "upgrading" to the fork? Forearmed is forearmed.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> sure, personal's anothermatter, especially if you had any assets. << Nah, you get the lawyer in personal ESPECIALLY when you don't have assets
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i meant in terms of getting raped.
mircea_popescu: beautyon you could.
BingoBoingo: beautyon: mircea_popescu laid out basics, but more guides written differently could help more innocents get the picture http://trilema.com/2015/if-you-go-on-a-bitcoin-fork-irrespective-which-scammer-proposes-it-you-will-lose-your-bitcoins/
assbot: If you go on a Bitcoin fork, irrespective which scammer proposes it, you will lose your Bitcoins. pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZHeMT )
beautyon: I'll do it.
joecool: mod6: are there plans to patch things like change predictability?
mircea_popescu: joecool CVE-2013-2273 you mean ?
joecool: yes
mircea_popescu: weren't they working on 5.9 ?
joecool: 0.5.3 is the version linked on thebitcoin.foundation
mircea_popescu: right you are.
mircea_popescu: i shall let teh experts comment.
mod6: joecool: not at this time, but that might get added to the list at some point.
mod6: the list is getting lengthy, but we're not going anywhere, so we've got time.
joecool: cool, you want any patches submitted for review on stuff like this?
asciilifeform: mod6: here's something i was gonna put in 'chicken' (init patch) but somehow forgot: version string.
asciilifeform: mod6: presently it spits out the traditional one. perhaps this should change at some point.
mod6: joecool: here's a guide to submitting a patch: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2014-December/000022.html
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZIu2B )
mod6: if persons submitting patches do not have L2 trust with assbot they may be submitted directly to me, and I will review. and will probably have to sponsor said patch myself.
joecool: nah shouldn't be a problem, i have L2
joecool: format looks easy enough to follow, cool
mod6: yup, shouldn't be an issue for you. we'd love the help.
mod6: asciilifeform: ah ok. hmm. well, too late to go back and edit the 1st patch. but i guess you can submit another that resolves that issue.
[]bot: Bet placed: 5 BTC for No on "Gold to drop under $1000 before March 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1101/ Odds: 17(Y):83(N) by coin, 17(Y):83(N) by weight. Total bet: 6.1 BTC. Current weight: 99,885.
mod6 looks
asciilifeform: mod6: i'm leaving this for the folks actually involved
asciilifeform: one of you will have to pick the new string.
asciilifeform just wanted a fscking hardcopy of bitcoind
mircea_popescu: joecool> cool, you want any patches submitted for review on stuff like this? << definitely that part.
mircea_popescu: send to the list, signed.
mod6: asciilifeform: sure. ben & myself were just discussing this yesterday actually. heh. not sure what this version will be called yet.
mod6: might be v0.5.3.1
asciilifeform: change predictability << personally i'd like to see the problem solved in the civilized way. i.e. http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=23-10-2014#890278 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 23-10-2014 05:06:33; asciilifeform: decimation: in my (now very old) plan for rewrite, there were to be two machines
asciilifeform: walletron doesn't belong in the net stack. or on that box at all.
mircea_popescu: someone refresh me on what exactly that vuln was anyway ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7056 @ 0.00066962 = 4.7248 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: the entirely nonsensical way in which the client decides what to do with 'change'.
mircea_popescu: so what you can spend other people's change ?
mircea_popescu: iirc that was due to a bad hardware "rng"
asciilifeform: neh that wasn't it
asciilifeform: that was another one.
asciilifeform: (the duplicate nonce thing)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3264 @ 0.00066802 = 2.1804 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: joecool do you recall what that cvs actually did ?
asciilifeform: https://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=462046
assbot: Bug 462046 – net-p2p/bitcoind, net-p2p/bitcoin-qt: multiple vulnerabilities (CVE-2013-{2272,2273,2292,2293}) ... ( http://bit.ly/1xZJG6c )
mircea_popescu: 2293 i recall was a retarded dos that had about 0 practical use
asciilifeform: anyone else puzzled that nowhere on the net - including above 'canonical' page - tells us wtf it did, in detail ?
asciilifeform: my sole recollections are from a brief discussion here, i think.
mircea_popescu: i dunno why but drawing a blank
asciilifeform: the default change behaviour is asinine (owing to how it destroys wallet backup as a concept) but i cannot recall how it can be seen as 'vulnerable'
joecool: i guess should look and see how they patched the behavior
asciilifeform: the whole cve paradigm is pure nsa, incidentally
asciilifeform: a 'chinese encyclopaedia' of, for the most part, mystery meats
mircea_popescu: but since we're discussing this, CVE-2013-2292 is still not fixed ?
asciilifeform: with 'the full dirt' presumably stowed away somewhere far.
mircea_popescu: (the take forever to verify tx thing)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yteah i am quite unhappy with an' suspicious of the current avenues for fixing "open source" software.
asciilifeform: this goes beyond the merely suspicious or ill-reputed, but is shitgnomery plain as daylight
asciilifeform: cve is the sec. research equivalent of the 1990s 'winamp playlist' (who remembers these ?)
mircea_popescu: i still have them
mircea_popescu: how do YOU listen to music ?
asciilifeform: 'mplayer'
asciilifeform: (cmd line proggy)
asciilifeform: but the playlists in question were a fashion where kids posted them on their 'look i have a w3bs1t311111'
asciilifeform: but no warez behind the names, naturally
mircea_popescu: anyway, a point of strategy, which i think everyone'll appreciate cuz it's lulzy. so : the scam foundation and its merry band of power rangers have very carefully constructed this situation where "nobody knows" what's what and whence it came and where it's going, because they (wrongly) perceived that ownership of an opaque codebase will guarantee them control and continued relevance.
mircea_popescu: the problem with this approach is that once challenged, they can not i nfact produce a list of what they did.
mircea_popescu: outside of handwaves and "it has been covered in previous posts", three years of "development" can readily be discarded and nobody'd know the difference.
mircea_popescu: how's that for irony.
asciilifeform: they could try to worm out of this tight spot by coughing up a 'wunderwaffen'
asciilifeform: but it seems doubtful
asciilifeform: incidentally, 'disregard x years and you'll never see the difference' is sop on usg projects.
joecool: !up xe4l
xe4l: thanks
xe4l: http://onerng.info/ new rng someone passed along
assbot: OneRNG - Hardware Random Number Generator ... ( http://bit.ly/1BXFwJE )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform do you have any idea what sort of work's involved in coughing up wunderwaffen that weren't planned for ?
asciilifeform: !s onerng
assbot: 4 results for 'onerng' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=onerng
asciilifeform: discussed in detail.
mircea_popescu: xe4l was mentioned b4
xe4l: rgr ty
asciilifeform: xe4l: do read the linked threads.
xe4l: already reviewing
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wunderwaffen that doesn't have to defeat the enemy, but look impressibe - is a little easier.
asciilifeform: *impressive
mircea_popescu: considering whom it has to look impressive to...
mircea_popescu: defeating enemy prolly easier.
asciilifeform: at any rate, why would the phoundation's handlers cut their funding now ?
asciilifeform: unless they have a replacement muppet brigade on hot spare
mircea_popescu: what do you think this is, some sort of wh fast tracked project ?
asciilifeform: by the looks of it, probably a 'they showed up' kind of affair
decimation: what would a 'wunderwaffen' even be like? some kind of fatal bug they secretly fixed?
asciilifeform: decimation: neh. something more like a 'new, shiny, xxxxx' reimplementation in $trendylang
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> at any rate, why would the phoundation's handlers cut their funding now ? << Hearding 101. If the sheep don't want to move on you let them get hungry in their overgrazed pasture. Makes them more receptive to new grass.
asciilifeform: ^ relevant: http://lowres-picturecabinet.com.s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/39/main/2/13982.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BXGK7C )
asciilifeform: (re: general chumpatronics. begs to be photodiddled.)
decimation: asciilifeform: based on their current work 'output' that scenario seems very unlikely
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: pretty much
asciilifeform: the muppets' work? sure. handlers? could extract it (from where? don't look at me) and put in their hands
asciilifeform: like stone tablets to moses
BingoBoingo: It's systemd all over again. Work is their enemy. Enemy is merely interested in producing anti-work.
xe4l: in review, onerng pros: cheap, shielded cons: hobbyist level device, design flaws
asciilifeform: !s spreading works
assbot: 19 results for 'spreading works' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=spreading+works
decimation: lol yeah that poster is hilarious. the best cattle *volunteer* for the bioreactor
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=20-08-2014#802309 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 20-08-2014 06:37:37; asciilifeform: soviet scientist declares, 'we've invented a shit-to-food converter.' 'does it work?' 'sorta. spreading on bread: worlks!!11! eating - not quite yet.'
asciilifeform: xe4l ^
xe4l: hahahahaha
BingoBoingo: Related: We just detected that you’re now among the most attractive people on OkCupid. << Profile picture is a Llama. Not metaphorically or anything. Picture is actual shaggy Llama.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: why are you on a zoophile site ?
asciilifeform: (appears to be a logical inference here? llama was voted up?)
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Nah. Bitcoin accepting merchant "Okcupid". Simply probing a data aggregator that happens to accept BTC.
xe4l: anyone using traffic creation software to mask activity? Eg: all internet connectivity from residence is routed out vpn(s), using QOS and traffic simulation software you maintain say 10mbit worth of various traffic (replaying or creating all relevant encapsulated protocols in use) with a low QOS setting such that your consumption is undetectable?
mircea_popescu: <BingoBoingo> Related: We just detected that you’re now among the most attractive people on OkCupid. << Profile picture is a Llama. Not metaphorically or anything. Picture is actual shaggy Llama. << ahahaha wut.
asciilifeform: xe4l: let's imagine we were. wouldn't discussing it here defeat the purpose of the exercise ?
xe4l: in this context, not really actually
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: why are you on a zoophile site ? << it's not a zoophile site. it's a women's site.
asciilifeform: xe4l: were you here for the 'buried treasure' thread ?
xe4l: negative
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: actual woman on dating site? lol wtf
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Nominally they accept Bitcoin and the same founders also made the Keybase.io thing. Gotta see if the average man on it looks worse than an ungulate.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla http://trilema.com/2015/heres-part-n-of-our-endless-saga-aptly-titled-the-people-know-shit-or-alternatively-nothings-dumber-than-the-voice-in-the-crowd/#comment-111340 he's right isn't he ? 1400 btc the most ever bet in a single bet on bitbet innit ?
assbot: Here's part n of our endless saga, aptly titled "The People Know Shit" or alternatively "Nothing's Dumber Than The Voice In The Crowd". pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1AUMssM )
xe4l: !s buried treasure
assbot: 10 results for 'buried treasure' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=buried+treasure
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: actual woman on dating site? lol wtf << Site in question kept my dick wet through Library school.
mircea_popescu: xe4l there's a deeper point involved here. stealth does not work in and of itself, as a strategy. if you want safety, you deploy an army. if you want to play the stealthy, you attach yourself to something with an army.
xe4l: I'm quite aware of Opsec
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: But since the founders made the Keybase abomination, I want to find out how much their original venture lies
xe4l: it's trivial to detect if someone is or isn't doing what I described, it's merely a layer to mask activity inside of a segment
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=30-08-2014#816402 << buried treasure thread. instructive.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 30-08-2014 20:46:17; asciilifeform: but, as every treatise on the subject invariably begins with, first try to understand what is to be hidden - and from whom
xe4l: talking about how you deal with protocol timing attacks would go more with the buried treasure opsec concept
kakobrekla: yes, good to know it works with numbers over 1k.
mircea_popescu: well really, over 100000000000
kakobrekla: hehe
mircea_popescu: xe4l i guess i don't understand what the purpose would be
xe4l: it's trivial to sniff most connectivity, especially wireless
mircea_popescu: right...
BingoBoingo: "Google Adwords" http://www.sjc.edu/after-sjc/
assbot: St. John's College | After St. John's - Careers - Alumni Outcomes ... ( http://bit.ly/1AUNYLq )
asciilifeform: it's trivial to sniff most connectivity, especially wireless << >> 'it is trivial to steal most objects, especially rotting squirrels in parks'
xe4l: the size, shape, duration, timing, etc of our traffic, no matter how encrypted still provides a wealth of information
xe4l: if for instance, your laptop, desktop, phone, whatever; always did 10mbit of encrypted traffic with variations in timing, packet size, etc
mircea_popescu: i think you will soon discover if you ever get to the practical side of things that denying ALL INFORMATION to an undefined attacker is a function of infinite budgets.
mircea_popescu: in general, to keep 99% out of any attacker's hands you'll need to spend 100x what they spend.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=05-01-2015#965701 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 05-01-2015 05:22:48; mircea_popescu: Fun noobs have a reputation of wishing to get involved in the most complex end of any matter first thing.
asciilifeform: !s invert matrix
assbot: 2 results for 'invert matrix' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=invert+matrix
xe4l has a background in information security consulting for fortune 100's
mircea_popescu: http://www.benzinga.com/news/14/02/4346277/bitcoins-shocking-resilience-and-achilles-heel << one of the most idiotic articles on btc
assbot: Bitcoin's Shocking Resilience and Achilles' Heel | Benzinga ... ( http://bit.ly/1AUONUo )
mircea_popescu: "David Smith
mircea_popescu: David is on track to retire in two years from investing in bitcoins. David wants to help you understand the once in a lifetime opportunity this digital currency revolution provides."
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=27-08-2014#811154 (naggum, of course)☝︎
assbot: Logged on 27-08-2014 01:00:10; asciilifeform: 'pardon my cynical twist, but what are you doing with that 20,000×20,000 double-precision floating point matrix you say you need to invert _today_? If you answer "nutt'n, I jus kinda wondered what it'd be like, you know", you should be very happy that I am most likely more than 3000 miles away from you, or I would come over and slap you hard.'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1700 @ 0.00066802 = 1.1356 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "david has a mental issue that makes him see vivid scenes from literature and also forces him to write about himself in the third person."
xe4l: what I'm talking about is simply providing less information, right now all of our connectivity generates a substantional amount of noise that can be intperetered, my thought is to shift that to, they are transmitting and receiving or they aren't
mircea_popescu: i guess something on udp then
asciilifeform: xe4l: let's start with the fact that 10mb/s will instantly promote you to your isp's 'hog list' in some, if not all, isp
decimation: who is 'they', and what are you transmitting or receiving?
asciilifeform: wasn't on a list the day before, and now you are.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform now that's an excellent approach to make the point.
xe4l: asciilifeform: it was a crude example, a proper implementation would do fancy shaping, but normalize the overall traffic pattern; I'm sure residential providers wouldn't like this, but MPLS/VPLS, metro-e, routing over peering/IX - it's irrelevant
decimation: asciilifeform: what is comcast's 'secret' bandwidth cap these days? a few hundred gigabytes per month
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i got a piece of junk mail once, advertising specially-made capsules (for folks who have no idea how to use a saw or glue?) for buring rifles.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: picture the fool who buys this, with his credit card, has it sent, etc.
mircea_popescu: decimation 60 from what i hear.
xe4l: over wireless you would pulse, your receiver would always transit and receive say 10mb every hour on teh hour
asciilifeform: 'whatamoron' - lizardhitler
mircea_popescu: xe4l i don't get what the attacker is supposed to think here. "oh, it's ok, that's just what that weird node does" ?
asciilifeform: xe4l: student exercise in traffic analysis. http://sleipnir.syari.net/pool/graphs.html?Month << litecoin miner graphs. say which ones are chumpnet-powered.
assbot: Syari.net - P2Pool Graphs ... ( http://bit.ly/1AUQl0H )
asciilifeform: answer (rot13) - boivbhfyl, gur fvahfbvqf. qnl/avtug plpyr, znpuvarf trg fjvgpurq ba, bss. gur cynarg gheaf.
BingoBoingo: !up xe4l
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> mircea_popescu: i got a piece of junk mail once, advertising specially-made capsules (for folks who have no idea how to use a saw or glue?) for buring rifles. << Obvious hypothesis, they found a Wasp cache and kept the rifles
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: neh, cheap plasticky crap
asciilifeform: chumpatron
asciilifeform: with bait component
BingoBoingo: Ah
decimation: like those magnets you stick to your gas tank to improve fuel economy
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=07-01-2015#967925 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 07-01-2015 04:40:04; *: asciilifeform rather thinks that this is a military matter, where adversary can afford to ransack and search 100 houses but not 100,000, and hence his gathering bits of info - matters
BingoBoingo: Cheap is prolly fine as long as you use enough cosmoline and can find solvent, but yes. Selling specifically for rifles problematic.
xe4l: mircea_popescu: oh the point would be that a sniffer would either see say 1mbit full duplex say ipsec traffic
asciilifeform: xe4l: then enemy relocates to the other end of the connection and proceeds to do - whatever he was originally to do at your end
xe4l: mircea_popescu: if the endpoint isn't doing anything, the software saturates the encrypted tunnel up to the same traffic volume/patter/protocol
xe4l: think TOR but you always do 10mbit FD
xe4l: no one can tell if your node is even doing anything or if it's just all white noise
asciilifeform: 'no one' ? lol
xe4l: lol valid point, few organizations other than the NSA have any idea if data is moving or not
BingoBoingo: xe4l: You idea seems to introduce of getting v& for DDoS as plausible reason even if attacker can not tell your actual schtick
xe4l: the idea is to reduce the number of data points that can be gathered from sniffing
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20250 @ 0.00066802 = 13.5274 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you realise searching 100k houses just "creates jobs" right ?
mircea_popescu: if it were a military matter they wouldn't cut the walls offhouses.
mircea_popescu: <xe4l> think TOR but you always do 10mbit FD << o that's what this is, you fixing what you read about tor vulnerabilities recently ?
mircea_popescu: ;;calc 30 * 24 * 3600 * 10 / 8
gribble: 3240000
xe4l: mircea_popescu: haha, naw, TOR has a host of issues; this is merely a security layer if contemplated deploying
mircea_popescu: amazon will let you have that for ~300 a month
mircea_popescu: so thinking further on the project to compare ecdsa libraries from yest... i guess the best thing would be to email respectable crypto people see if they want to do it as a contracted job. anyone wish to make recommendations ?
mircea_popescu: aka "got a favourite cryppie ?"
mats: colin percival, moxie
TomServo: kakobrekla | i just find the whole fetch command thing silly. << If it was named scoopdog that'd be one thing...
mircea_popescu: mats aha
mircea_popescu: noted
mats: DJB, too
mircea_popescu: put links if you have em
mats: http://cr.yp.to/contact.html DJB contact
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/14D0kev )
mats: http://www.tarsnap.com/contact.html cpercival http://www.thoughtcrime.org moxie with gpg key
assbot: Tarsnap - Contact ... ( http://bit.ly/14D0FxK )
assbot: Moxie Marlinspike >> About ... ( http://bit.ly/14D0DGa )
mircea_popescu: nice
joecool: hm i wonder if he ever pops on irc, his co has a small channel
mircea_popescu: experience over the past few years shows that answer is generally yes
mats: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2015/01/snowden-us-has-put-too-much-emphasis-on-cyber-offense-needs-defense
assbot: Snowden: US has put too much emphasis on cyber-offense, needs defense | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/14D22wt )
mircea_popescu: he's consulting now ?!
mats: 'defense' is kinda misleading imo
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8050 @ 0.00065591 = 5.2801 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: "fix the damned software" "nu-uh, we'd rather look for bugs in the chinese's" "they're using the same shit, you know"
mats: ...suggesting that computers as they are can be proportionally defended, rather than a contest of risk management and attack surface
mircea_popescu: mats if i defend my windows, i look for holes. if i attack your windows, i... look for holes ?
mircea_popescu: wtf is the difference.
mircea_popescu: obviously, on a strategic plane the difference would be "stop making broken by design software ; behead all the shitgnomes ; adopt bitcoin as us currency" etc.
mircea_popescu: but that's a way waiting.
mats: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-01/msg00111.html f/oss has best community
assbot: Re: Emacs contributions, C and Lisp ... ( http://bit.ly/14D4FhK )
mircea_popescu: obviously i read "floss"
mats: as intended!
mircea_popescu: i don't get it. so, stallman-gcc, is at odds with stallman-emacs and they don';t wanna talk inside his head because cacti ?
mats: ive read it several times and concluded a) i dont get it and b) f/oss is embarassing and dumb
mircea_popescu: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-01/msg00205.html
assbot: Re: Emacs contributions, C and Lisp ... ( http://bit.ly/1yNAYrs )
mircea_popescu: apparently there's some debate about ast output in gcc.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the gcc-emacs merger seems slowly but surely emergent
mircea_popescu: mebbe they could call it gccemacsd
mats: id like to see gcc contribs move over to llvm, if for no other reason than to motivate both parties
mircea_popescu: i have not looked at the matter in at least 3 years. does llvm still own gcc much to everyone's chagrin and denial ?
asciilifeform: it never did, afaik
asciilifeform: on any parameter i know of
asciilifeform: but apple, etc. love it on account of no gpl
mircea_popescu: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=llvm_clang35_avx2&num=1
assbot: [Phoronix] GCC 5.0 Outruns LLVM 3.5 Compiler By A Bit On Core-AVX2 ... ( http://bit.ly/14D6OKl )
mircea_popescu: im still there
mircea_popescu: llvm compiles faster, sucks at encryption (lol) and by degrees at everything else.
mircea_popescu: sounds like the true c compiler!
asciilifeform: iirc rms is concerned about something quite valid - gcc has excellent front-end and ast-level optimizations, while at the same time, a middling-to-poor set of back-ends (depending on cpu arch)
mircea_popescu: take half and run, yes
asciilifeform: back-end optimizations, that is
asciilifeform: aha. plenty of folks want to take, take, run.
BingoBoingo: http://www.mail-archive.com/bitcoin-development@lists.sourceforge.net/msg06685.html
assbot: [Bitcoin-development] OpenSSL 1.0.0p / 1.0.1k incompatible,causes blockchain rejection. ... ( http://bit.ly/14D7qiW )
mircea_popescu: aww
mats: https://gcc.gnu.org/ml/gcc/2014-01/msg00247.html RMS pisses on llvm
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/14D7r6v )
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo let me dig up my own words from the damned logs
BingoBoingo: Everyone knows you have them.
BingoBoingo: !up Vexual
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-01-2015#969805 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 08-01-2015 08:24:54; mircea_popescu: he's prolly aiming for putting it in by february, but won't actually have the tech resources to do it and rather than risk a total humiliatory blowout delay it to march
mircea_popescu: already cracking at teh seams.
mircea_popescu: day later.
asciilifeform: 'wunderwaffen' answered.
asciilifeform: -- 'soft' fork on some other minor point, boil frog more slowly.
mircea_popescu: not good enough.
mats: http://massprivatei.blogspot.ca/2015/01/mass-law-enforcement-agenices-claim.html
assbot: MassPrivateI: Mass. law enforcement agencies claim they're corporations and they're exempt from FOIA requests ... ( http://bit.ly/14D8PX1 )
mircea_popescu: "While I have often cautioned people before to avoid using libsecp256k1
mircea_popescu: for verification on the grounds that consensus trumps correctness, the
mircea_popescu: above incompatibility does strongly suggest that OpenSSL may not itself
mircea_popescu: have very good consensus-critical design. Along with Maxwell and
mircea_popescu: Wuille's recent findings¹ CVE-2014-3570 - strong evidence of the
mats: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/11333928/Bank-of-America-warns-of-lethal-damage-to-Chinas-financial-system-as-deflation-deepens.html
assbot: Bank of America warns of 'lethal' damage to China's financial system as deflation deepens - Telegraph ... ( http://bit.ly/14D8OSM )
mircea_popescu: excellent testing the library has undergone - I personally am now of the
mircea_popescu: opinion that migrating Bitcoin Core to libsecp256k1 in the near future
mircea_popescu: is a good idea on the grounds that it provides us with a well-written,
asciilifeform: mats: old news i think
mircea_popescu: and well-understood library designed with consensus in mind that'll
mircea_popescu: probably give us fewer consensus problems than our existing OpenSSL
mircea_popescu: dependency. It'll also help advanced protocol implementations by giving
mircea_popescu: them a clear dependency to use when they need consensus-critical
mircea_popescu: signature evaluation."
mircea_popescu: unless there's some sort of major backdoor in wuille's ecdsa implementation...
mircea_popescu: anyway, ima get on teh comparison requests tomorrow. if anyone has more names to suggest as per above...
asciilifeform: mats: see also:
asciilifeform: !s gendarmerie
assbot: 7 results for 'gendarmerie' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=gendarmerie
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha, doing the 'nix openssl' thing from therealbitcoin idea list ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform seems so.
mats: asciilifeform: ive only seen this specific issue get airtime in the last few months
mircea_popescu: not that THAT is a bad move in any sense, of course. but timeo Danaos et dona ferentes.
mats: but yes, i agree with the premise re: gendarmerie
BingoBoingo: http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/photoshop/0/9/8/359098_v1.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/14D9F5P )
asciilifeform: i expect to be a minority of one on this, but i'd much rather see it done by one of the folks here, than by a great sage who may or may not have been suborned (or shall be as soon as enemy gets wind of intention)
asciilifeform: unless you'd like to hire them in pairs.
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "Gold to drop under $1000 before March 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1101/ Odds: 28(Y):72(N) by coin, 28(Y):72(N) by weight. Total bet: 7.1 BTC. Current weight: 99,593.
mircea_popescu: the asking is public, let teh enemy pluck its hairs.
mats: BingoBoingo: chimps are terrifying.
BingoBoingo: mats: Of course
asciilifeform: has anyone considered how preposterous the entire notion is, of bitcoin depending in the least bit on crud in external libs that can change on a whim ?
mircea_popescu: you mean, has anyone considered how idiotic "update now" is ?
mircea_popescu: yes, actuyally, they have. here even, publicly and explicitly.
asciilifeform: ah yes, more or less that.
asciilifeform: but it's especially ludicrous for safety-critical proggy
asciilifeform: and astonishing how long folks have been putting up with it.
mircea_popescu: not astonishing in the slightest.
mircea_popescu: first, there was one man, who couldn't code, doing idiotic things like windows and qt.
mircea_popescu: then there was a group of youthful men doing what seemed clumsy but well meaning stuff
mircea_popescu: then they were cast out and a bitcoin foundation constructed.
mircea_popescu: seems very reasonable really. how short would you have put up with it ?
asciilifeform recalls now the discussion of 'what do the mega-miners run, and why should they ever wish to tell us'
mircea_popescu: side note : i read someone (maybe joel on soft ?) in a wonderful piece "why i never upgrade" and i've never been able to find it again. ne1 know it ?
asciilifeform: mats: gcc... a) i dont get it... << what's the hard concept here? rms wishes to avoid gcc turning into a sweet and defenceless piece of candy for the 'embrace & extend/extinguish' folks.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he's characteristically weak in the rhetorics involved.
mircea_popescu: i very much doubt half his closest collaborators grok what he means on the strenght of his text. you yourself, i suspect, followed the logic of the situaiton not the logic of his words.
asciilifeform: situation aha
asciilifeform: 'the spartan - speaks with his sword.'
mircea_popescu: well yeah, so, i don't understand wtf he's saying either.
asciilifeform: weak rhetoric, but he wields the zapper.
mircea_popescu: i do understand what he should be saying. but...
asciilifeform: through the sword i listen to wtf he is actually saying.
asciilifeform: reportedly, rms keeps a harem. perhaps it understands his words.
mircea_popescu: i never heard that report.
mircea_popescu: i heard of parrots and a fear of bathing and cactus
asciilifeform cannot swear to it, mainly informed thirdhand re: a variety of rms women.
asciilifeform: cactus ?
mircea_popescu: myeah
asciilifeform does not know what to believe, but did at one point meet an actual live woman who spoke at length of writing to rms and wishing to make close acquaintance - no luck
mircea_popescu: this proves harem in the sense person offering large stores of grain to dissinterested cad thereby proves cat's a farmer.
asciilifeform: lol
asciilifeform: re: rms and his oddities, i'd note that quite a few (most?) folks would end up regarded as similarly odd, if they somehow were set free to do wtf they pleased
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2PCNQ24.txt )
BingoBoingo: !b 2
mircea_popescu: in my limited experience with harems and the people keeping them, you can more or less get a trial run. especially as a young, entused woman.
BingoBoingo: Damn, missed
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform specifically, gaddafi was regarded as similarly odd,
mircea_popescu: especially as he become politically inconvenient
mircea_popescu: and in direct relation to that.
asciilifeform: aha.
asciilifeform: re: mr g:
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2014#573142 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2014#573144 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2014#573145 http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-03-2014#573146 ☝︎☝︎☝︎☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2014 17:44:35; asciilifeform: 'When the glorious Muammar Kaddafi, in his blue bournouse, or in his uniform, appear on the telly, the domesticated inhabitant of the sanitaria jerks from fright. 'Monster,' 'terrorist,' 'evildoer,' public enemy number one - the media calls him, led by its disdain for all that is envigorating (and, on top of it all, foreign), and pushed by false information supplied by CIA... ...his very existence is
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2014 17:44:35; asciilifeform: a videoclip of a fairy tale coming true... ...they [americans] also wish to drive around in jeeps, accompanied by squadrons of hotties in berets with kalashnikovs - but are impotent from birth. Envy, taken with an understanding of one's own powerless... easily transforms into hatred. The leaders of the sanitarium are easier for the 'patient' to understand, closer. He sees their permissible pecadillos,
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2014 17:44:35; asciilifeform: eased with their mediocrity. 'But this fellow from the desert!' (Interestingly, that among the hundreds of tyrants, in uniform and without, depending on the united states or the european sanitaria, none provoke a fraction of the wrath caused by Kaddafi. Evidently, the cause is his independence.) Kaddafi - is an extraordinary living proof of the fact that the fairy-tale version of life remains possible
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2014 17:44:41; asciilifeform: t only outside of the sanitaria.'
asciilifeform: (limonov)
mircea_popescu: http://opensourcetogo.blogspot.com.ar/2009/07/emailing-richard-stallman.html << some of the lulzier (because vintage) drama.
assbot: Open Source to Go!: Emailing Richard Stallman ... ( http://bit.ly/14Dek7P )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6750 @ 0.00066802 = 4.5091 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: tl;dr : gnome twerp is "I’d strongly encourage you to refrain from such comments in the future.", because that's how the world works nao.
asciilifeform: pour la gnome-aille, il faut la mitraille.
asciilifeform: or sumthinglikethat
mircea_popescu: "315 comments", you understand.
mircea_popescu: still, they're funny. guy derps about how "concerns echoed again and again are ignored!!11" and is amazed. then people echo again and again the concern that "wtf loosen up" and "why are you publishing some guy's emails ?" which he... amazingly... ignores. why ?
mircea_popescu: "because he wqon't read me! and there's no other way to vent my little penis!"
mircea_popescu: it's so great to live in this day and age.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15798 @ 0.00064422 = 10.1774 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: sometimes i shudder at the thought at how comparatively harder and humoruless-er my life would have been, had i chanced to live among sane people.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu could have ended up writing monte carlo sims for implosion tampers on gigantic trinary computer. in refal.
mircea_popescu: but this is a lot more fun.
assbot: Last 2 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0QF6332.txt )
asciilifeform: !b 2
mats: !s graham allison
assbot: 2 results for 'graham allison' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=graham+allison
mats: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-07-2014#751856 << i missed this. is he unreliable?☝︎
assbot: Logged on 10-07-2014 16:05:38; asciilifeform: Mats_cd03: only worth reading if there's a source other than alexander lebed circa 1997.
mircea_popescu: http://www.thebaffler.com/articles/the-meme-hustler
assbot: The Meme Hustler - The Baffler ... ( http://bit.ly/14DhNn7 )
mircea_popescu: "The enduring emptiness of our technology debates has one main cause, and his name is Tim O’Reilly."
mircea_popescu: whodda thunk making a shitton of "x for idiots" books will result in a large bleating herd of idiots!
mircea_popescu: (ethymology also interesting : stallman's favourite pressman - evgeny morozov - running down o'reilly because he's not left enough!!)
mircea_popescu: meanwhile, the relative failure of foss is strictly due to the incongruous and often misshapen radical leftist ideas of stallman. had that thing been "the same old gospel of individualism, small government, and market fundamentalism that we associate with Randian characters" it'd not be struggling covered under a pile of open source.
mats: http://www.findlaw.com.au/articles/138/the-nature-and-history-of-equity.aspx
assbot: The nature and history of equity ... ( http://bit.ly/1xO6Fz8 )
mats: whoops ... wrong one. i'm reading about the Earl of Oxford's case
mats: http://www.griffith.edu.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0012/188688/early-intervention.pdf
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/14Dk4yD )
mircea_popescu: which one is that ?
mats: > concerned land in London which Henry VIII had gifted to Thomas, Lord Audley, as a reward ... By his will, Audley left the land to Magdalene College, Cambridge, but the college subsequently sold the land and some of it was acquired, indirectly, by the Earl of Oxford. Magdalene College challenged Oxford's title on the basis of a statute which prohibited the
mats: disposition of College lands ... as part of the original sale, Magdalene College had made an intermediate transfer to Queen Elizabeth with the deliberate intention of bypassing the statute.
mircea_popescu: heh
mircea_popescu: you know a simple summary of all the many ways english barristers tried to use the crown as a fixed point to unseat the lawe would be dazzling.
mats: i pity the research assistant
mircea_popescu: one example : original legislation to defend the living against mortmain holdings required all wills vest
mircea_popescu: but how ? and they came to the idea to make it vest in a definite relation to a definitely existing thing
mircea_popescu: on the principle that nothing that is is forever, and so...
mircea_popescu: the reaction ? make wills reference the throne succession. so wills would be as good as the lifetime of the dynasty.
mircea_popescu: that had to be excised specifically, which is how the wills practice got to be so insanely complicated, the us practitioners pretty much gave up.
mats: ;;dict mortmain
gribble: wn: mortmain n 1: real property held inalienably (as by an ecclesiastical corporation) [syn: {mortmain}, {dead hand}] 2: the oppressive influence of past events or decisions [syn: {dead hand}, {dead hand of the past}, {mortmain}]
mircea_popescu: the dead are at the following advantage over the living : they don't feel any pressure to change their views.
mircea_popescu: this may become untenable.
mircea_popescu: to illustrate : suppose i am me, and i happen to believe that all females should spend a decade right after puberty nude at all times. i happen to be rich, and mindful of my beliefs. while i accept that i can't oder people around, i also expect them to respect my disposition of my own property. and so my will reads, that all my stuff is to be inherited by so and so successors, provided at all times all females pubescen
mircea_popescu: t for a decade or less on that property are nude.
mircea_popescu: my neighbour, a man of different notions but similar methods, orders all black haired people to always wear square hats.
mircea_popescu: a few century later, "circus" means a place where everything's quiet. because a simple walk down the street makes one's head spin.
mats: http://www.michaelgeist.ca/2013/02/right-to-google-a-lawyer/
assbot: One Phone Call is Not Enough: Court Rules You Have the Right to Google a Lawyer - Michael Geist ... ( http://bit.ly/1wFwT2I )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14991 @ 0.00065972 = 9.8899 BTC [+]
scoopbot: New post on Trilema by Mircea Popescu: http://trilema.com/2015/timeo-danaos-or-lets-enjoy-the-romanian-language-together/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12200 @ 0.00064355 = 7.8513 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8249 @ 0.00064355 = 5.3086 BTC [-]
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Gold to drop under $1000 before March 2015" http://bitbet.us/bet/1101/ Odds: 23(Y):77(N) by coin, 23(Y):77(N) by weight. Total bet: 8.8399 BTC. Current weight: 98,810.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13800 @ 0.00064351 = 8.8804 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17722 @ 0.00065926 = 11.6834 BTC [+] {2}
scoopbot: New post on BTC Scoop by peter: http://blog.btcscoop.com/day-job-research-of-2014/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18200 @ 0.00064343 = 11.7104 BTC [-]
assbot: xiando +v failed; L1: 0, L2: 0
kakobrekla: !up xiando
xiando: So I need a better WOT rating all of a sudden? :-/ oh well, life can't always be easy as pie.
kakobrekla: as dead as wot seems it still changes.
PeterL: ;;gettrust assbot xiando
gribble: Currently authenticated from hostmask xiando!xiando@irc.xiando.org. Trust relationship from user assbot to user xiando: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=assbot&dest=xiando | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=xiando | Rated since: Mon Feb 18 08:34:39 2013
PeterL: Could you self voice in the past? Maybe somebody here removed their rating?
xiando: Perhaps. But I am just this guy, you know, I rarely have anything important to say so it is fine, really. I can just idle and not be important and not write, that is alright.
PeterL: anything import to say today?
xiando: I thought I'd mention that openssl 1.0.1k apparently breaks bitcoin-core which shows how "well programmed" that piece of .. software? is. http://sourceforge.net/p/bitcoin/mailman/message/33221963/
assbot: Bitcoin / Mailing Lists ... ( http://bit.ly/1y0Onwp )
PeterL: is this a problem with openssl or bitcoin-core?
xiando: Basically a bugfix in openssl makes bitcoin-core behave differently depending on what openssl version is used
kakobrekla: http://shrani.si/f/2O/R5/4lIvDtR7/advertising.png
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1y0PuME )
kakobrekla: might as well put it here.
kakobrekla: !up hermeto
joecool: xiando: yeah it breaks it, happy to report libressl does not
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23150 @ 0.00065628 = 15.1929 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AMHASH1] 1916 @ 0.00089279 = 1.7106 BTC [-] {12}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6650 @ 0.000659 = 4.3824 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: asciilifeform, others: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_ULtNYRCbg << dude made a complete word processor in minecraft, using 'redstone logic'
assbot: Redstone Word Processor/Computer in Minecraft [1024 subscriber special] - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/17ugR61 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00064343 = 6.6917 BTC [-]
decimation: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/10/us/politics/prosecutors-said-to-recommend-charges-against-former-gen-david-petraeus.html?_r=1
assbot: Log In - The New York Times ... ( http://bit.ly/17uhQn1 )
decimation: "But investigators concluded that, whether or not the disclosure harmed national security, it amounted to a significant security breach in the office of one of the nation’s most trusted intelligence leaders. They recommended that Mr. Petraeus face charges, saying lower-ranking officials had been prosecuted for far less."
decimation: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 278.72, Best ask: 278.87, Bid-ask spread: 0.15000, Last trade: 278.87, 24 hour volume: 36864.61642640, 24 hour low: 271.03, 24 hour high: 305.0, 24 hour vwap: 0
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=10-01-2015#972199 << lol right, like nuland.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 10-01-2015 18:56:19; decimation: "But investigators concluded that, whether or not the disclosure harmed national security, it amounted to a significant security breach in the office of one of the nation’s most trusted intelligence leaders. They recommended that Mr. Petraeus face charges, saying lower-ranking officials had been prosecuted for far less."
mircea_popescu: cheeky politicos you got over there.
decimation: yeah, there's no way they will prosecute
mircea_popescu: orly.
decimation: but the little people in usg find that 'unfair'
mircea_popescu: peterl btw, know who invented rsa ?
mircea_popescu: decimation i suspect you don't understand how that world works.
mircea_popescu: xiando: I thought I'd mention that openssl 1.0.1k apparently breaks bitcoin-core << this, of coruse, was discussed for the past few days :)
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla bwahaha slander! i'll bet you 1btc straight up they don't do it this month.
decimation: I note someone put a hefty weight against that gold bet
mircea_popescu: hm enough so im almost tempted to bet.
decimation: to think that gold will crash is also to think that usd will gain. it's possible, with all this 'oil shock' working its way around
mircea_popescu: gold has a problem of demographic. the only people that think gold is functionally useful as a monetary metal are poor. they may be a numerous echelon, relatively speaking, what's left of the upper middle class proceeding on vague intuition and memories. however, they're poor.
mircea_popescu: and that poor speaks a lot more to power than just money.
mircea_popescu: to everyone else, gold is this quaint horse buggy. no dispute it worked at some point, no desire to go back to that point.
mircea_popescu: no chance of it, either.
joecool: mircea_popescu: i built core off libressl, the response was "it builds?"
mircea_popescu: heh
mircea_popescu: not much love for de radt in power rangerlandia hm ?
joecool: apparently not
decimation: http://www.wsj.com/articles/obama-to-propose-cybersecurity-measures-1420912674
assbot: Obama to Propose Cybersecurity Measures - WSJ ... ( http://bit.ly/17unoOc )
decimation: Mr. Obama will also outline proposals to tackle identity theft and expand Internet access.The proposals are part of a White House preview of Mr. Obama’s annual State of the Union address, to be delivered Jan. 20.
decimation: good luck with that
mircea_popescu: joecool anyway, the objection generally given to change in that spot ("that the code being merely correct is not enough assurance") is logically valid.
joecool: it's cool though, they are ditching openssl, i'm sure whatever they replace it with will do a better job :)
mircea_popescu: im not.
mircea_popescu: the exact thing played out once before, "it's cool though, they're ditching bdb, im sure whatever they replace it iwth will do a better job"
mircea_popescu: it could. not in their hands it won't.
joecool: mircea_popescu: oh that was entirely sarcastic, i did not phrase that seriously
mircea_popescu: o
adlai: gold is the old world's litecoin
adlai: had our fun, moving along.
mircea_popescu: i was thinking that as i wrote, but then dropped. yes, an apt analogy in many ways. very inept in others tho
adlai: it got me wondering what the old world's bitcoin is, and the least senseless answer is 'bitcoin'
mircea_popescu: nah, the old world's bitcoin is an unexpressed mix of contracts and reputation.
kakobrekla: <mircea_popescu> no chance of it, either. < putin thinks otherwise.
mircea_popescu: yes, well, putin is running a country. if you're running a country too, by all means, cover all bets to the degree he does.
mircea_popescu: makes me wonder where's your nuclear subs, but anyway.
cazalla: http://www.reddit.com/r/Buttcoin/comments/2rys7y/are_we_witnessing_the_beginning_of_a_civil/
assbot: Are we witnessing the beginning of a civil buttcoin war? : Buttcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1wHVxQn )
thestringpuller: "It looks like he made his goal in life to be the most detestable person in the internet. (Methinks he is still nowhere near that rank, though.) However he is a precious resource, as an expert bitcoiner who enjoys kicking some of the most sacred cows in bitcoinland."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12150 @ 0.00065872 = 8.0034 BTC [+] {3}
cazalla: bit more here too https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=919629.0
assbot: Fork off ... ( http://bit.ly/1wHZiVY )
mircea_popescu: is that about me ?
cazalla: mircea_popescu, nothing you have not heard before lol
mircea_popescu: aha
mircea_popescu: aite well iwas writing a lengthy piece, brb.
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 276.25, vol: 37825.31373356 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 271.597, vol: 8362.04945 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 277.71, vol: 30430.02066324 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 279.0, vol: 29.42532153 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 270.617724, vol: 119575.66800000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 280.0, vol: 51.85575948 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 284.113569988, vol: 36.2511054 | Volume-weighted last (1 more message)
Apocalyptic: cazalla, even "It is a possibility that the MP argument is a virtually literal strawman, atop a bonfire, to fuel a flame war that drives up his LTC holdings." ?
undata: wtf is virtually literal
undata: is that like almost true?
Apocalyptic: as sensible as the whole statement
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6550 @ 0.00066802 = 4.3755 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=919629.msg10105479#msg10105479 << My favorite so far
assbot: Fork off ... ( http://bit.ly/1wI27pS )
thestringpuller: reading stuff like this makes me think of the matrix
thestringpuller: where you get unplugged and see all this crazy shit and at some point you hack back in and see all the dumb people completely unaware of there shit
thestringpuller: allegory of the cave shit yo
thestringpuller: As Louis Armstrong said, "As I think to myself, was I ever this dumb?" LOL
Apocalyptic: BingoBoingo, reads like the only reasonable answer so far
danielpbarron: if the hard fork happens, it should be possible to cycle funds in and out of exchanges that are dumb enough to switch, splitting away real-bitcoin whenever the withdraw gives you an output that hasn't been doublespent yet -- or is this possibility too good to be true?
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: May be possible. I'd count double spending your coins yourself to seperate forks before using them in anger.
danielpbarron: yes that's what i mean; withdraw, split, send fake-coins back into exchange, repeat
danielpbarron: when "dust settles," exchange is now fractional reserve (if it wasn't already)
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron no, it works just fine. gavincoin has to accept both bitcoin and gavincoin txn. this writes free options to everyone in bitcoin that gavincoin is held to honor regardless.
mircea_popescu: so yes, separate your gavincoins, send to exchange, withdraw. see if it replies with a bitcoin+gavincoin pair, if so separate it again.
mircea_popescu: if not, it's out of bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: (on the theory oldest inputs are favoured)
mircea_popescu: cold wallets may save them to some degree, but it's pretty random.
thestringpuller: in theory, gavincoin will cost more to produce
thestringpuller: the blocks > 1mb
thestringpuller: the gigachain is more expensive in nature no?
Apocalyptic: this would work only until the input the exchange is spending for your withdrawal is on both chains
mircea_popescu: i guess it would.
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic hence "if it doesn't, it's out of bitcoins"
Apocalyptic: indeed
mircea_popescu: working on the assumption of naive exchange, of course.
mircea_popescu: in practice i';d expect them to separate their funds immediately, and only pay out gavincoins.
mircea_popescu: so they scam the userbase more than the userbase scams them
thestringpuller: also, isn't it impossible to guarentee gigachain has 1:1 parity with main-chain?
mircea_popescu: how do you mean ?
thestringpuller: they would have to wait for main-chain to mint
thestringpuller: then include all transactions in main chain
thestringpuller: then add more then mint it
mircea_popescu: heh somehow i doubt that's how it'l lwork.
thestringpuller: by statistics alone, the transaction will very greatly in each chain
mircea_popescu: right.
thestringpuller: so in order to defend the attack gavin would have to include code to keep 1:1 parity with the main-chain while his blocks are minted
mircea_popescu: it wouldn't defend.
thestringpuller: how he does that, i dunno and I don't care
thestringpuller: not commpletely defend, just make it so doors are wide open
thestringpuller: aren't*
mircea_popescu: 1 tx is say 400 bytes. if i split 1k btc into 1k 1 btc txn that's 400kb. if i dump 400kb on the network as it is now, about half would be put into a block immediately.
mircea_popescu: whereas in gavincoin, all would go in.
mircea_popescu: thus, i split half already.
thestringpuller: exactly.
thestringpuller: even with 1:1 parity, you still get
mircea_popescu: so the only way to have bitcoin is 1:1 identity in all respects.
mircea_popescu: which is as it should be, really.
thestringpuller: transactions in gigachain that won't exist in main chain
thestringpuller: funny how even trying to dumb the article down, people still don't get that
thestringpuller: i even made a cute little diagram
mircea_popescu: i dunno what';s not to get
thestringpuller: i guess we just don't know how bitcoin works amirite?
mircea_popescu: this is likely.
mircea_popescu: anyway, this is exactly like that alt coin that went nowhere which was going to give everyone with bitcoin as many of the altcoin as they had bitcoin
mircea_popescu: i forget its name, but it doesn't matter, the principle is the same.
danielpbarron: CLAMs
danielpbarron: the justdice thing
mircea_popescu: the author thought he "covered" the economics involved. then it turned out the author had no fucking idea.
mircea_popescu: was that it ? pretty sure there was one before
mircea_popescu: rigth at the time keiser was pushing his aurora scam
BingoBoingo: !up fff
BingoBoingo: !up SnakePls_
BingoBoingo: !up jordandotdev
SnakePls_: !up
kakobrekla: dont break the thing now.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla did bitstamp ever send teh documents ?
kakobrekla: not yet, but its weekend now, they are prolly drinking in some bar.
mircea_popescu: in sf ?!
mircea_popescu: maybe starbux
kakobrekla: they dont have bars there?
kakobrekla: brb
mircea_popescu: a) you can't smoke ; b) alcohol is bad for you mkay
adlai: "So I think the lack of a real computer science today, and the lack of real software engineering today, is partly due to this pop culture [of the personal computer]." https://queue.acm.org/detail.cfm?id=1039523
assbot: A Conversation with Alan Kay - ACM Queue ... ( http://bit.ly/1AZSPLe )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18720 @ 0.00065069 = 12.1809 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13084 @ 0.00066898 = 8.7529 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6416 @ 0.0006749 = 4.3302 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: "That's my point. Before you kick a sleeping tiger that has no teeth make sure you can see his gums"
scoopbot: New post on BTC Scoop by peter: http://blog.btcscoop.com/technetium/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20650 @ 0.0006749 = 13.9367 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: afternoon, gents
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6850 @ 0.00067109 = 4.597 BTC [-]