log
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hanbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/KImP1/?raw=true << coupla rough drafts re http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-03#1857870 ; first specific to trustnodes wankpiece in particular, latter as a kind of generic template. mod6 ben_vulpes mircea_popescu asciilifeform et al pls to scrutinize when convenient.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-10-03 23:51 mircea_popescu: hanbot lend the fellows a hand ?
asciilifeform: hanbot: oh neato !
asciilifeform loox...
asciilifeform: hanbot: imho this is entirely good, and oughta be taken up
asciilifeform: mod6: plz to look
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes ditto
hanbot: ty asciilifeform. BingoBoingo also take a look?
mircea_popescu: i don't see a problem. maybe could be had warmer, but not clear that can be done without elongation. terseness' is a virtue, as ~nobody reads anymore.
mod6 reads up
mircea_popescu: just as long as we're clear "media-wannabes" includes everyone, from washpo and guardian to what have you.
mircea_popescu: i guess i gotta get that girl a real machine now, so she can actually v and stuff.
hanbot: mircea_popescu we're clear.
mod6: jesus mary and joseph
mod6: "looks good to me" ?!
asciilifeform: mod6: hm?
mod6: This is the first chance I've had to even read this trustnodes article
asciilifeform: mod6: the article is pretty sad
asciilifeform: mod6: we're discussing hanbot's answr
mod6: Yeah, I wanted to get a bit of background here before I do. On-deck next :]
mod6: now I get mp's -10 on thebluematt
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/stephen-douglas-speaking-at-ottawa-ill-august-21th-1858/ << Trilema - Stephen Douglas, speaking at Ottawa, Ill. August 21th 1858.
BingoBoingo: hanbot: ty, reading. Just got back from epic beachwalk
BingoBoingo wasn't aware Illinois has an ottawa
mod6: hanbot: Thank you, I really like both of these. I don't think I would change a word. Nice job!
mod6: I also, really appreciate you stepping up to help me out. Seriously.
BingoBoingo: hanbot: Looks really good. I can't think of changes which would keep it something that might get bites.
mod6: mircea_popescu: Maybe the Foundation could pay for the machine, since she'll be doing work on behalf of the Foundation?
mircea_popescu: very kind, but nah,
mod6: Ok, just thought I'd offer.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo more proeminent back then.
mircea_popescu: congressional district etc.
mod6: All, an update from Pizarro: The price point that Pizarro will be using for the month of October is $6170 per BTC.
trinque: roughly 400 spread eh?
mod6: Yeah.
mod6: We're willing to purchase more fiat at some point later in the month of course.
trinque: gotta say, I'm eventually going to cancel my service if this "we pulled the price out of our asses, and here it is" thing doesn't turn into a process somebody surfaces on a blog somewhere.
trinque: I thought the point of doing business in a WoT was to avoid that kind of thing.
mod6: It was not pulled out of our "asses". We had a difficult time finding takers to sell us fiat this month. Late in the game, we came to a price point with jurov. This was the quoted amount.
trinque: you came to a price point with jurov where?
mod6: This was conducted behind closed doors.
trinque: do you see my point yet?
mod6: trinque: hopefully lobbes' auction bot will be available next month.
mircea_popescu: o hey, rehash of this!
trinque: this prevents jurov from saying "I jurov bid $x for $y" here?
mircea_popescu: mod6 is the idea jurov could not have done what i did, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-27#1837995 specifically, because... what is it, he's decided not to speak in channel anymore and you had tjhe option of either forcing the point or getting the dough ? or is this just terribly mismanaged altogether, or what ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-07-27 16:33 mircea_popescu: !Qauction 1bn 168 8.2k wFF q0
mod6: So here's what went down.
mod6: Last few months, jurov took a heavy hit on FX when he would quote us, send the wires, and then we would finally send him the coins at the end. He also was apparently butting up against some possible fiat limits.
mircea_popescu: this also behind closed doors ?
mod6: Since we were getting a bit desperate to get some fiat purchased, I offered to him to send the coins first, and he could mitigate that FX risk. We worked out the details in a PGP.
mod6: Yes.
mircea_popescu: is there some advantage i'm not seeing to the approach ?
trinque: for jurov, apparently!
mircea_popescu: i'm not even sure of that much.
mod6: I'd love to do this a different way. I just felt like, other than alf spending money that he had saved for a possible emergency trip, we didn't have a lot of other options.
mircea_popescu: you had no options other than to keep things quiet that you knew sooner or later will have to make public and also knew the people you'll make them public to will take a dim view of your keeping them secret ?
asciilifeform: mod6: i'ma do the next one ( given as BingoBoingo got his crate ) , this oughta give enuff time for lobbesbot & some semblance of civilized life to start
mod6: I actually didn't think it was any big deal, as previous months I had made these deals behind closed doors with jurov as wel.
mod6: *well
mircea_popescu: and trinque complained regularly.
asciilifeform: mod6: and no closed doors plox, we'll work out the price right here.
mircea_popescu: if you do manage to lose his custom, that's what, 1/3 of your income ?
asciilifeform: mod6: based on , idk, crystal balls.
trinque: mod6: suppose I start charging you deposit fees on deedbot *arbitrarily*
trinque: and notice that I don't, because wtf?
asciilifeform: trinque: let's say you were selling usd, instead of jurov ; how wouldja pick a price ? ( serious q, i dun have what could be considered a civilized & deterministic algo presently )
mircea_popescu: how do i lean on him, "trinque, stick with the republican isp!" "but mp, LOOK WHAT THEY DID TO MY BABY!". what do i say at that juncture ?
mod6: I will back away from all of this going forward. I'll let BingoBoingo handle this.
mod6: I apologize trinque.
trinque: what's with the angular responses? just do business here in the forum where it belongs.
asciilifeform: trinque: entirely meant as non-flame. i like selling usd occasionally ( did first , what , 6mo of pizarro... ) but i do not have a proper algo currently.
mod6: I'm sorry, I was just acting to do what I thought was best for Pizarro and it's customers. I seem to be getting it wrong, somehow.
trinque: I could've weighed the decision to buy against your discount, which would've put you in a better position than your deal with jurov, and meanwhile saved you from the perception that you're not all that clued in on what the forum does.
mircea_popescu: in fairness to jurov (whom, knowing the man, i can readily believe took a fx beating), wouldn't his implicit donation deserve the implicit recognition ?
trinque: I suppose all I know about jurov right now is silence, which is a related problem.
asciilifeform: i'ma have to agree with trinque , i have nfi where jurov's been hiding out and specifically why
asciilifeform: some folx have a very heavy meatspace life ( e.g. phf ) but i'm not aware of why jurov.
trinque has an extremely heavy meatspace life, but checks in every time he can
mircea_popescu will pass this "busy meatspace life" thing altogether.
BingoBoingo: Going forward we are going to have to do open air in the log bidding. Three increasingly urgent attempts during the second half of September by mod6 to get bidders are recorded in the logs http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-17#1850967 http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-23#1852917 http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-28#1855384☝︎☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-17 19:04 mod6: Also folks, Pizarro needs to purchase some fiat, so if you're interested, can start up an auction if you like, or can do WU or whatever. Minimum $500, please. Let us know if interested.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-23 01:43 mod6: Pizarro is looking to purchase some fiat for next month. Please reach out to me if you would like to sell some dollars! Thanks in advance.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-28 16:30 mod6: We still need fiat, any takers?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: hand-cranked auction ? i see no prob with this ( until we have robot )
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: aside from the problem where mod6 proclaimed one on 17th and nobody came forward
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Hand cranked auction has long history of being a thing
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo: aside from the problem where mod6 proclaimed one on 17th and nobody came forward << This is a problem
BingoBoingo: But bot auction can also recieve deafening silence from bidders
trinque: "and anyway if I asked her she'd just say no"
asciilifeform: trinque: in your pov mod6's http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-17#1850967 does not constitute 'ask' ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-17 19:04 mod6: Also folks, Pizarro needs to purchase some fiat, so if you're interested, can start up an auction if you like, or can do WU or whatever. Minimum $500, please. Let us know if interested.
asciilifeform: why's this ? not formatted correctly, or wat
trinque: if this is working for you just fine, keep it.
trinque: I would've preferred to know of jurov's bid, so I could counter
asciilifeform: trinque: this is 100% fair imho
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo, mod6 : trinque is entirely right , bids oughta be open strictly.
asciilifeform: no moar whispers.
trinque: gotta let the money work neh?
mod6: The bid came in yesterday evening
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> BingoBoingo, mod6 : trinque is entirely right , bids oughta be open strictly. << Open bidding going forward. Bot or no bot.
mod6: We needed to get the ball rolling here, I went with it. I did ask you if you wanted to buy some, but you declined.
asciilifeform: mod6: i'd happily work 100% of'em if i had what with.
asciilifeform: but imho the civilized thing to do is proper forum bids.
asciilifeform: ( e.g. asciilifeform : million! trinque : nut, 10k ! mircea_popescu : idjit! 1k ... etc )
mircea_popescu: i dunno why this thing with the bot seems to satisfy me only. is it truly impossible to sell chunks of fiat for some reason ?
asciilifeform: well we're buying, rather than selling
asciilifeform: ( fiatola, that is )
mircea_popescu: so if jurov has a chunk of fiat, he can offer it and pizarro can bid and i guess trinque could bid more if he wanted to. this is dysfunctional ?
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-01#1846350 << some history around 'manual'☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-01 00:13 mod6: i'm just saying, doing it 'botless'. like I say, "this auction is open for 72 hours, closes on X date at X time. Selling 1 BTC for USD. Winner of auction sends whatever wires seller specifies."
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this is exactly what's wanted
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-27#1837995 not good format to repeat because ... ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-07-27 16:33 mircea_popescu: !Qauction 1bn 168 8.2k wFF q0
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it was my understanding that this bot is being retrofitted by lobbes for the necessary units
mircea_popescu: you must've skipped some log then, do you mean http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-09#1848940 ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-09 19:00 mircea_popescu: lobbes forum schmorum, if you de-ecu it ima kick it off #eulora and have someone else make a different one.
asciilifeform: nah got that, it's to be a separate proggy iirc
mircea_popescu: it is ?!
asciilifeform: unconnected with eulora's
asciilifeform: no ?
trinque: mod6: you did ask me in private, which I appreciate, but that's not how I'd prefer to do this, as per all the ^
mircea_popescu: afaik all you get is reverse auction (at a significant later date, once he's well done with rewriting the whole thing).
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ok, is what i thought
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> afaik all you get is reverse auction (at a significant later date, once he's well done with rewriting the whole thing). << This is what I recall. Reverse auction denominated in ECU
mod6: trinque: Got it.
mircea_popescu: entirely not clear to me what's blocking about this. what's blocing about this ?
asciilifeform: mod6: you asked him before 17th, or after ?
trinque: and it's not as though I can't eat +-5%, but why, when learned folks have a process for narrowing those kinds of gaps, and don't need a bot to do it.
asciilifeform: i'm trying to grasp what happened here, why no bids on 17th, or 18th, or any other day until last night?
mod6: After for sure. I don't have the exact date, but I'd say it was in the last week of september -- I reached out to a few people directly since I wasn't getting any takers in either #pizarro or #trielam.
asciilifeform: or there were ? but not where i could see'em ?
mircea_popescu: can't say " !Qauction 1bn 168 8.2k wFF q0" because gotta say !Qrauction 1bn 168 8.2k wFF q0 instead ?
mod6: *#trilema
trinque: maybe I hear jurov's bid and I say fuck it, my next month's btc purchase happens today instead.
mircea_popescu: to translate the difference between "i'm selling 8k fiats" and "i wish to buy 8k fiats" ? is the specificity of ammounts on pizarro side such a huge deal for you lot ?
mircea_popescu: i had formed the impression the main problem's finding lots, not cutting them to specified sizes.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it was my parsing of 'i'ma kick it' that you dun want any units other than btc and ecu in there ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i suspect what might've happened is that ~everyone is waiting indefinitely for arbitrary and unexamined expectations to be satisfied, and no public discussion available to remedy this.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: trying to fix !
asciilifeform: let's fix
mircea_popescu: the way the auction works, is that you can currently sell any one thing you wish, for ecu, which are these account bitcoins.
mircea_popescu: the way the auction will work, is that you will be able to both sell and buy any one thing you wish, also for ecu.
asciilifeform: trinque what do you need to feel yerself in a civilized house of commerce instead of orc den. mod6 what do we need re fiatolade purchasing. jurov what do you need to start fucking showing up in forum.
mircea_popescu: what this development buys you is NOT that "i can now trade fiats", but that "i can now buy SPECIFIC lots of fiat, whereas before i was stuck bidding on whatever lots someone offered".
asciilifeform: right, specific, like erry civilized auction block worx, 'i have 900kg of iridium', not 'i have iridium!'
mircea_popescu: it ~seems to me~ this difference is not worth a postage stamp, if indeed i understand the description of pizarro's situation mod6 is making correctly, that is, "we have trouble finding lots of fiat to buy, not finding exact chunks".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform that's not the meaning involved.
asciilifeform: hm?
mircea_popescu: the way auction bot currently works, and has worked for 100s of auctions worth 10s of bitcoin, is that any one party with some fiat, can say "i have this much fiat and will let it go for no less than this much ecu".
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-01#1846358☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-01 00:19 mod6: ah, i see, so for instance trinque could say, "selling 4000 USD for ECU", exactly like yourself with the last one
mircea_popescu: this, as far as i can tell, is perfectly useful to pizarro as things stand now, and perfecly approachable to everyone, and a permanent solution to the record and advertisement requirements people have.
mircea_popescu: for SOME REASON you seem to be waiting for a (MUCH LATER) upgrade which would permit you to advertise ~i want to buy EXACTLY X fiats AND NO OTHER SUM NO MATTERE WHAT HAPPENS!!!~.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: plox to clarify what http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-09#1848940 was about, in this case. i was under the specific impression that auction of items other than ecu is forbidden in mircea_popescu's bot.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-09 19:00 mircea_popescu: lobbes forum schmorum, if you de-ecu it ima kick it off #eulora and have someone else make a different one.
mircea_popescu: notwithstanding this doesn't seem to actually be your position -- you do not in fact have the option to so wait, because you may not engage in this course that fucks over the record keeping and advertising obligations you have.
asciilifeform: hmm
mircea_popescu: all auctions must ~settle in something~. it is greatly beneficial to have unique settlement, on the basis of 100s of years of auctioning experiencve in teh commercial world. just like lloyds will trade in antique vases and modern soiled underpants, BUT ALWAYS SETTLE IT IN POUNDS, just so lobbesbot will deal in disgusting goop or unified dosidoes, but always settle in ecu.
asciilifeform: i dun see why we need the exact sums thing
mod6: I think, we'd be fine doing the reverse (if possible) of the log I linked above. "BUYING 1000 USD for ECU".
mircea_popescu: you're in this joining me, who's similarly not seen for a few months now.
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858369 << this is correct btw; new auctionbot (will be named 'auctionbot') will allow !Xsell and !Xbuy (both denominated in ecu) see also: http://blog.lobbesblog.com/2018/07/auctionbot-eta-and-status-report/☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-10-05 01:53 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> afaik all you get is reverse auction (at a significant later date, once he's well done with rewriting the whole thing). << This is what I recall. Reverse auction denominated in ECU
mircea_popescu: but for some reason quite square heads stuck with a collection of balls.
trinque: mod6: you've got it backwards. in this model I'd go list my available fiats alongside everybody else, is my understanding
asciilifeform: trinque: this seems to me to be Right Thing
mod6: Oh, I suppose it has to be the first way I linked then 'eh?
asciilifeform: but what i don't yet grasp is how to make this go with mircea_popescu's 'settle in ecu'
trinque: this would look like an ideal position for pizarro, as you'd have far more of a sense in advance what fiat you may be able to pick up.
mircea_popescu: it's possibly not the best thing, and yes work to better it is underway, but you seem to me in the position of the fellow who is starving with cheese in hand for lack of steak.
asciilifeform: how do i list a bag of usd for auction in a bot where only ecu and btc are units.
mircea_popescu: trinque no, i know. it's just...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform is the example provided not edifying ?!
asciilifeform: something's not clicking in my head, i can't seem to turn it into an algo
asciilifeform: i have a bag of x usd. what do i do next.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-07-27#1837995 <<☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-07-27 16:33 mircea_popescu: !Qauction 1bn 168 8.2k wFF q0
mircea_popescu: "i have 8200 fiats which i'm willing to wire, will take at least 1 btc for it"
asciilifeform looks for the rtfm for Qauction
mircea_popescu: to the undying shame (of the soi-dissant "banking system" foremost), that trade did not actually complete. but i daresay it did not complete because third parties idiocy, not because the auction mechanism.
asciilifeform: ( what does the 1bn do ? the 168 ? wFF ? q0 ? )
lobbes: !Qhelp
lobbesbot: lobbes: http://lobbesblog.com/lobbesbotcommands
lobbes: asciilifeform: ^^
asciilifeform: ty lobbes
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform 1bn ecu = 1 btc. 168 is hours to live, here 1 week. "wFF" is a symbol i ad-hoc'd, "wired filthy fiats". explained in the next line. q0 is just a joke as to the poor quality of the fiats in question, has no bearing in this context.
asciilifeform: ok figured out from doc, all but last 2, which mircea_popescu explained above
mircea_popescu: the great flexibility of this thing allows you to make your own symbols and so on, it's really well made.
asciilifeform: so mircea_popescu dun actually have objection that the item being auctioned is not euloric ?
asciilifeform: then we can use the existing mechanism, mod6
trinque: what's the ecu to btc bridge, in-game, or requires another sale?
mircea_popescu: if at all used, this system would ~certainly~ quell any sort of even vaguely possible complaint in the vein of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858281☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-10-05 01:24 trinque: gotta say, I'm eventually going to cancel my service if this "we pulled the price out of our asses, and here it is" thing doesn't turn into a process somebody surfaces on a blog somewhere.
mircea_popescu: because it'd run in the obvious -- "you don't like it, put some grease in, what's keeping you".
mod6: asciilifeform: well, that's just the thing. anyone who wanted to sell fiats, didn't start up an auction.
mircea_popescu: trinque parties are at liberty to settle either way.
asciilifeform: trinque: good q. i for instance am not equipped to process ecu atm
mircea_popescu: traditionally settlement was offered indistinctly in either format.
trinque: ah ok.
mircea_popescu: ecu is an ~account currency~. you know what those are ?
asciilifeform: think so
trinque: more or less what's sitting in the deedbot db
mod6: i pasted that log line above because i was hinting to readers "hey, if you want to buy pizarro's coins, this is how you do it." But no one even asked.
mircea_popescu: symbolic, abstractly defined denominations, like the roman empire's solidus, or what have you. they don't even have to exist to be used.
mircea_popescu: mod6 maybe a lot of this isn't well understood, we got a situation of everything waiting for everything else.
mod6: yeah, i think as people see a few of these take place, it'll make a bit more sense.
mircea_popescu: right.
trinque: mod6: the hinting thing doesn't work. put a blog post out and give direction, pizarro's process is to ...
mod6: any regular buyers of btc should just throw out an auction for some minimal amount. Say $500 USD, and once pizarro wins those aucutions, they'll get the hang of it.
mircea_popescu: well i think part of the problem may be he himself didn't well understand this before right now.
trinque: it's no problem; this is why I threw a friendly punch instead of quitting the service.
mod6 rubs eye
mircea_popescu: lol
mircea_popescu: anyway, the only important magic number is the 10e9 ecu = 1 btc value. otherwise the whole thing's open, you can just say i dunno, "will only take BTC" as a comment in the next line, or w/e.
asciilifeform: then this sounds 100% usable.
mircea_popescu: byoa.
asciilifeform: mod6 didja already assent to jurov's thing, or can we start one of these nao
mircea_popescu: in any case to date danielpbarron 's been on the ball facilitating conversions also.
mod6: It's already in motion. Sent him the coins yesterday.
asciilifeform: aite
asciilifeform: next one we oughta do as mircea_popescu described tho
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i wouldn't go back on a deal. but the past is the past, what's to keep you from doing more for the future.
asciilifeform: and afaik no reason not to set it in motion nao
mod6: Besides, we really need to get the money moving; even if we wanted to do an auction now, we need $5000.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: was asking to see if there were a deal. apparently yes. and no we won't go back on it.
mod6: I'm not confident that we could get that done as quickly as we need it. I did ask, a lot if people were interested. But no takers. But anyone is free to start up an auction now.
asciilifeform: but for next one oughta use mircea_popescu's bot, since he has no objection to auction of non-euloric goodies
mod6: And we'd bid, because I'd like to have some extra cusion in our account down there.
mircea_popescu: mod6 i think that's very sensible, have some cash on hand jic.
asciilifeform: ^
mod6: I'd love it, make me a helluv a lot less nervous -- as I was for the last 10 days.
mircea_popescu: and i expect as the thing starts getting some history behind it, time intervals can narrow out, removing most of the fx unpleasantness.
mircea_popescu: and besides, a forwards btc market can't hurt anything.
trinque: lol, shift-q is remarkably close to ctrl-w
mircea_popescu: heck, half the fucking reason we even did pizarro was to get this going, if yo urecall.
mircea_popescu: trinque i burn "close" shortcuts with plasma cutters.
mircea_popescu: DUMBEST THING EVER.
mircea_popescu: who the fuck ever closes anything, and if they do why;'d they open it.
trinque: yeah, that one must die
trinque: !Qauction 310080000 336 2000 usd WU
lobbesbot: AUCTION # 366 STARTED by trinque: 2000 usd WU Opening: 310080000 coppers Ending: 2018-10-19 02:32:35 UTC (336 hours)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858434 << none whatsoever! same mechanism was famously used to sell a notebook i wrote in, and other things. the only fixed thing is the settlement point, and for good reason of the nature of macroeconomic wisdom.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-10-05 02:10 asciilifeform: so mircea_popescu dun actually have objection that the item being auctioned is not euloric ?
asciilifeform: makes sense.
mircea_popescu: i don't have a ready list of the many varieties of items therein sold, maybe lobbes keeps it as part of his eventual marketing efforts, but anyway. it's known diversity.
mircea_popescu: one day may even sell slavegirls.
mod6: !QBid 336 305763640
lobbesbot: mod6: Error: Auction Id # 336 has ended
mircea_popescu: mod6 366
mod6: oh, was looking at the '336' line from trinque. herp.
mod6: !QBid 366 305763640
lobbesbot: mod6: Error: Try bidding moar. Starting Bid is 310.08mn, you bid 305763640
mircea_popescu: (for all the interested parties : lobbesbot announces the current slate of auctions hourly in #eulora, and privately on request. see the very useful manual lobbes wrote for it.)
mod6: Oh, starting bid. Got it.
mod6: !QBid 366 310080000
lobbesbot: AUCTION # 366: 2000 usd WU Heard: 310.08mn from mod6 Ending: 2018-10-19 02:32:35 UTC (335 hours 53 mins)
mod6: we're off!
trinque: cheers mod6 !
mircea_popescu: hanbot do me a favour and add a wu thing for the fellows also. help the rocket along!
lobbes: btw bot also accepts abbreviations such as 'k' and 'mn' (e.g. !Qbid 366 310.08mn)
mod6: thx lobbesbot
mircea_popescu: lol
mod6: err, lobbes
mod6: lol, thing tab-completes to the bot every time.
mod6: gets me on the regular
mircea_popescu: in point of fact this is a well oiled piece of machinery that we've fine tuned over year+ in the other hall.
lobbes: and to remind: this current bot also will only announce in #eulora (I'm still debating about where new bot should annouce)
mircea_popescu: and i'm quite satisfied with it as it stands.
mircea_popescu: lobbes you wanna do eulora-and-your-castle sorta thing ?
mod6: Works for me.
asciilifeform: ok where's the castle
lobbes: mircea_popescu: yeah, was thinkinging of allowing it to sit in n number of castles
lobbes: *thinking
mircea_popescu: i dun see a problem, if the owners wanna.
asciilifeform: ( i'd really like to not have to eat the spamola in #e , i'll admit )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform well, that'll only last till new deedbot :D
asciilifeform: right
asciilifeform: btw i'm beginning to think #e is the last chan being spammed... even shithole #linux-rockchip was left alone
mircea_popescu: o noes.
trinque: which reminds me http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-04#1858058 << will scope this and report back.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-10-04 15:47 mircea_popescu: aaand considering it's been coupla weeks, trinque care to put an eta on it ?
mircea_popescu: ty!
mircea_popescu: in other ideas : anyone wanna get a toll free us number & redirect it to here ? seems the better way to work that whole "or call xxx" angle.
deedbot: http://bimbo.club/?p=41 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/01/2018
jurov: Hello, I am not sitting on bag of fiat to seek auctioning it off, but when anyone in my wot comes like "halp!!!" i will help them sell coins if possible.
jurov: Next time if representative of public company does ask me this privately I'll go to forum. Lesson learned.
jurov: My offer was in this case 6170 USD/BTC, with fiat wire sent within a week.
asciilifeform: jurov: thx
asciilifeform: jurov: we'll be using auctiontron nao, so won't need to ask folx for halp!! ideally.
ave1: In more http://trilema.com/2017/time-to-get-out-by-the-way/, we get https://www.particlesforjustice.org/.
diana_coman: aaand if I get it right, GNAT.CRC32 uses Ada.Streams.Stream_Element and it expects a String as input so overall it really sounds like back to GNAT.Sockets style, ugh
diana_coman: as one might tell, I'm looking into using CRC in smg.comms as per latest spec
ave1: diana_coman, gnat has system.CRC32, it consumes characters
diana_coman: ave1, ah, the gnat.crc32 is just the stream on top of system.crc32?
diana_coman looks
diana_coman: right you are, yay!
diana_coman: thank you ave1
ave1: it looks like it yes
asciilifeform: diana_coman: https://www2.adacore.com/gap-static/GNAT_Book/html/rts/s-crc32__adb.htm << pretty simple, you can even lift and civilize
diana_coman: asciilifeform, yes, that's where I went after ave1 pointed out that the gnat.crc32 is just a stream-wrapper
diana_coman: I'm actually thinking whether to add a simple crc32(array of octets) -> unsigned_32 to EuCrypt; presumably it will be of larger utility anyway;
diana_coman: so yes, lifting it
asciilifeform: right, was what i pictured
asciilifeform: diana_coman: there really aren't so many things that legitimately call for 'streams', i have nfi what the standard authors were thinking...
asciilifeform: ( imho the only situation where stream abstraction makes sense is when you have serial i/o of variably-sized crapola. to date i've used'em in only 1 piece, the classical-btc block/tx reader/writer , 'nqb' )
asciilifeform: btw there's a 'fixed buffer <--> stream' item in there that prolly oughta get genesised, i expect it'll come in handy.
BingoBoingo: In other local news: drug gang slowly took over public housing complex, used it to "warehouse" trivial quantity of drugs https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/desarticulan-clan-narco-que-tomo-complejo-de-casas-2018104203434
BingoBoingo: Since this is a "public" building it remains to be seen if the bulldozers come out like they did for the ancient squat on the other side of the impoverished north
mircea_popescu: jurov i suspected something like that happened.
mircea_popescu: diana_coman nah, listen, just implement a crc32. it's very simple indeed, i quited the polynomial used, just divide by it and keep the change.
mircea_popescu: we ~needed~ a republican crc32 anyway, it's useful and important, chapter head exactly like "we need a hash" or "we need a ffa", and i was aware extant code is not fit for pitching.
mircea_popescu: a nm, already in log. doh.
asciilifeform: btw one doesn't ~have~ to use table. (it's maybe 10-20x faster than not, depending on cpu, is why folx do. but when i crc on microcontrollers i dun use table, it eats coupla kB)
mircea_popescu: imo we should have lookup version first and foremost. but if diana_coman has the time/inclination, implemnenting both isn't the end of world anyway.
asciilifeform: meanwhile in vintagetrilema lotto , http://trilema.com/2015/basic-bitcoin-competency-certification/
asciilifeform: ^ would be interesting to read a new edition of this, if mircea_popescu ever feels inclined to bake one
mircea_popescu: for srs.
mircea_popescu: though honestly -- this might very well be a foundation item neh ?
asciilifeform: easily
mircea_popescu: certainly something the foundation could've been advertising itself as doing, lo these many years.
mircea_popescu: if manned, i mean.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858552 << 0.2kg of 'white gold' doesn't seem 'trivial'... then again i am not subj expert☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-10-05 16:43 BingoBoingo: In other local news: drug gang slowly took over public housing complex, used it to "warehouse" trivial quantity of drugs https://www.elobservador.com.uy/nota/desarticulan-clan-narco-que-tomo-complejo-de-casas-2018104203434
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform he has a point, in that it's subpackaged.
asciilifeform: ah hm.
mircea_popescu: you can;t get it packaged in less than lb, and usually kg, on intl market.
mircea_popescu: so in it being subunitary, it's properly called trivial.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: "white gold" is rare here. Usually cocaine in Uruguay refers to "pasta base" outside of Punta Del Este
asciilifeform: so leaf node, then.
mircea_popescu: prolly.
asciilifeform: how big is a 'standard' snort's worth, anyway? 1g ?
asciilifeform: ( and 1g pre- or post- dilution ? )
mircea_popescu: i'd gues 0.3
mircea_popescu: anyway, the 0.2 was prolly first cut already. http://trilema.com/2013/what-the-drug-trade-is-how-the-drug-trade-works-and-why-silk-road-didnt-work-and-didnt-matter/#selection-87.78-87.104 <
asciilifeform: makes sense
mircea_popescu: so it prolly doesn't even count as "a fifth of a pack", more like "a twelfth"
asciilifeform: iirc 'leaf nodes' are traditionally 'disposable' and never store substantial qty of anyffing
asciilifeform: incidentally, i wonder why coke aficionados dun grow the plant themselves, the way potheads do
asciilifeform: surely it would just as readily grow in glass house under lamp
BingoBoingo: Plant's pickier. They call cannabis weed for a reason, just won't die
mircea_popescu: too long cycle for their attention span.
BingoBoingo: And somehow afficianados manage to still kill the plants
mircea_popescu: also very much what BingoBoingo says. coke's harder than wheat, weed's easier than thistle.
BingoBoingo: Happily grows and lives full life anywhere from roadside ditches to red solo cups in basements
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i was under impression that the 'cultured', oil-rich variant were tricker
asciilifeform: *trickier
asciilifeform: ( and that the ditch-growing variant dun do much when taken )
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: From my understanding and interviews the more desirable cultivars are just as happy to live and grow. All the wank around them simply appears to be optimization problems.
asciilifeform: hm.
BingoBoingo: Or basement insanity projects
BingoBoingo: Where they end up slow cooking plants like deli rotisserie chicken and scream "Too Hard"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858535 << hey, i was right, HOW SHOCKING.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-10-05 15:40 ave1: In more http://trilema.com/2017/time-to-get-out-by-the-way/, we get https://www.particlesforjustice.org/.
mircea_popescu: nobody's cancelled that, by the way. get out, you're wasting your life.
asciilifeform: and hah, rumour is that somebody baked glyphosate-resistant coca
mircea_popescu: yup. happened years ago.
mircea_popescu: bout three or four years after they started giving monsanto columbia's tax money for no reason.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Aficianados also specifically want unfertilized flowers, so creating male free environments is another optimization wank drawing substantial faffs
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'for smart arse, threaded cock will be found' eh.
mircea_popescu: but yes, he's also correct. most of the "difficulty" is forum-wank, whereby the kids that can ride a bike tell the kids underage watching in amazement what incredible skill it takes to ride a bike.
mircea_popescu: very male-adolescent schelling point, rarely missed.
asciilifeform: !#s ricing
a111: 3 results for "ricing", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=ricing
asciilifeform: ^ see also.
mircea_popescu: (i suspect the whole reason us culture is so gender-awkward, btw, is that sometime (in the 1880s ?) older kids told younger kids "how hard it is" and it stuck as part of the culture in that culture-less place.)
BingoBoingo: To be fair the latest western US forum wank on the subject is butane extraction of active ingredients from the lowers, while... ethanol extraction of the same active ingredients is rumoured to work. That wank is still prolly a good 2 to 5 years out from Uruguay though
mircea_popescu: dude of course tincture works. it has worked for ~500 years.
BingoBoingo: And yet... the folks keep rediscovering without reading
deedbot: http://bimbo.club/?p=42 << Bimbo.Club - TMSR Log Summary - 10/02/2018
mircea_popescu: pretty much what got alchemy even started, iranians getting perfume extracted in dilute ethanol. TWENTY FIVE HUNDRED YEARS AGO
mircea_popescu: strange notions of "essence" and "ousia" and what have you -- they're all euro reverberations of "middle earth got this perfume thing going!?!?!?!"
BingoBoingo prolly ought to try compiling general tourist information/anthropology overview on the subject
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858549 << trying to universalize incorrectly. i think the greater part of design problems come from people picking the wrong "universal" to hitch on to.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-10-05 16:40 asciilifeform: diana_coman: there really aren't so many things that legitimately call for 'streams', i have nfi what the standard authors were thinking...
mircea_popescu: let me reiterate http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858528?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-10-05 08:48 mircea_popescu: in other ideas : anyone wanna get a toll free us number & redirect it to here ? seems the better way to work that whole "or call xxx" angle.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc ethanol extracts various impurities along with the desired oil; hence various liquid-gas exotica
mircea_popescu: yes well.
BingoBoingo: Anyways, the point is the cannabis forum wankers essentially invented their own Monsanto in the same way Linus and the men alone invented their own Microshit
mircea_popescu: that strikes me as eerily accurate.
BingoBoingo: It's what would be alt-Republics seem to do
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858618 >> hence :☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-10-05 17:36 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858549 << trying to universalize incorrectly. i think the greater part of design problems come from people picking the wrong "universal" to hitch on to.
asciilifeform: !#s notation worth iq
a111: 5 results for "notation worth iq", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=notation%20worth%20iq
asciilifeform: moreover, i suspect that the fixation on, and abuse of, 'streams', really flows from the orig unix retardation where 'errything is a file' and otherwise ~0 useful abstractions available at all
mircea_popescu: quite possibly.
BingoBoingo: On the plus side if you want to do non-narcotic houseplants or balcony vegetables in Uruguay, the quality of potting soil here is extraordinary compared to the shit in old country
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re tollfree thing : i found several vendors who will forward voice to a voip thing 'anywhere on globe'. can get quotes if you like, tonight/earlytomorrow. do you have whom to pick it up ?
mircea_popescu: here too.
mircea_popescu: they import german stuff i've never seen outside of germany.
asciilifeform: ah hm i thought mircea_popescu specifically wanted a usa #
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform ima use your flame, nikki.
asciilifeform: but if can be bought from mircea_popescustan...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i was talking re potting soil.
asciilifeform: lol!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: re: 800 phone -- the only headache i foresee is that it needs good 100%-uptimed net pipe
mircea_popescu: anyway, by all means, get an us toll free number, ima provide endpoint here later todayh.
mircea_popescu: why net ?
asciilifeform: is how they avoid being raped by orc telco charge
mircea_popescu: ie i gotta get some sort of voip going ?
asciilifeform: looks like needed for it to work economically.
mircea_popescu: alrighty well let's get details on this.
asciilifeform: i'ma dig up the reqd detail tonight.
mircea_popescu: ty
asciilifeform: ( seems to me to be a) doable b) quickly c) good , potentially , bang for the bux -- which is rare combo )
mircea_popescu: me too, but generally the assrape is in the details.
mircea_popescu: wires also used to be abc.
asciilifeform: right
mircea_popescu: and i guess particle physics.
asciilifeform: btw i seem to recall that we had one of these, briefly
asciilifeform: moiety's thing
mircea_popescu: chick went stupid suddenly.
mircea_popescu: "oh, gotta get a real job". i'm sure she's rotting in some half-employment as we speak.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> they import german stuff i've never seen outside of germany. << The one I've been using is a local product. Thoroughly composted and fluffy with ample perlite. Has a mariuana leaf on the bag even.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc moiety was an outpatient tho. perhaps will have better luck with current trainee.
mircea_popescu: but how hard is to break the mother mula conditioning, and always put hands on your tits under the shirt, rather than always try to remove same.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform what fucking perhaps.
asciilifeform: i have nfi. can only hope she is better at answering pnoje than digesting log
mircea_popescu: omfg... dig yourself in deeper!
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo, mircea_popescu : re the pot extractors -- i wonder if an effect similar to http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-03#1857757 is in play☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-10-03 19:52 asciilifeform: ( pharmacologically also interesting : old-school opium 'smokers' ( wasn't actually smoked, it was sublimated in a device resembling today's 'crack pipe', and pretty 'high tech' procedure, look at photo of the kit some time ) -- the moar active components of the vegetable -- morphine & relateds -- didn't make it out of the pipe bowl, broke down, so theoretically the chinese were actually doing a somewhat different dope than today's j
asciilifeform: i.e. different processes give diff combos of the orig vegetable's poisons, and result in diff effect
mircea_popescu: entirely possiobly. i never cared enough about pot to break out the thin layer cromatographs and shit.
asciilifeform: me neither, but apparently there's ~2dozen diff items in'ere.
mircea_popescu: well yes. it's a fucking plant. that's what they do.
mircea_popescu: there's 2 dozen in eggplant, also, and in everything else.
asciilifeform: aha. there's a reason herbivores have mega-liver
mircea_popescu: right.
asciilifeform: btw according to 1 source, the opium people were actually 'class-stratified' in that poorfucks smoked 'recycled' crud, containing moar morphine , and got stupider ( vs the elite, who took in 'prime' material, never heated previously )
mircea_popescu: i dunno about the stupider angle. principal function of indian opium in chinese society was civilised (by their lights) old man gc.
mircea_popescu: and, for the record, this MAY be the oldest trade.
asciilifeform: prolly not quite oldest, the sublimator pipe was a 17th c invention, and preceded by tobacco
mircea_popescu: yes, but the indian balls of black spice travelled before 3k bc.
asciilifeform: possibly. dunno how they were used tho.
mircea_popescu: nor does anyone. they azns are terrible at ancient record keeping.
asciilifeform: egyptians, iirc, we know to have eaten it.
mircea_popescu: yeah.
asciilifeform: i suspect there's something to the 'fractional distillation' hypothesis -- there's ample record of chinese emperors, officials, & their concubines, doing opium 'to amplify fuck', which as i understand is not compatible with morphinism as it is known to modern industrial dopeheads
asciilifeform: ... whereas the 'dens' that europeans ended up seeing, were fulla folx who had problem standing up, much less fuck...
mircea_popescu: i don't know they were doing opium.
mircea_popescu: chinese is fucking terrible at specificity of terms, between "she cow pig had kittens" and "alf put opium in his food" because opium is a spice and so is cardamom...
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: iirc the records use term 'black fragrance'. which at least later came to refer to subj.
asciilifeform: but without time machine, hard to say if were opium , or combo, or something entirely else.
mircea_popescu: yes, but i very much do not trust chinese. as a language i mean, and as a cultural process.
asciilifeform: me neither.
asciilifeform: ~very~ difficult to work with as a coherent record of anyffing. sorta an anti-l0gz.
asciilifeform: and, maddeningly, they seem to be aware of it, and prize it.
mircea_popescu: the problem discussed in http://trilema.com/2018/democracy-sucks-the-two-thousand-four-hundred-and-change-years-old-version/#selection-297.0-297.795 the chinese have managed to bake ~into the language~.
asciilifeform: they achieved it from opposite end tho
asciilifeform: as i understand their language consists more or less wholesale of... l0g refs
mircea_popescu: the euros attempted a ~similar thing with http://trilema.com/2018/the-problem-with-christians/#selection-61.0-65.669 but the chinese had longer to do it.
asciilifeform: ( from ancient elite l0gz )
BingoBoingo: Gotta make sure you are an honored ancestor for passing down which black spice makes the rice taste better and which black spice kills the old folks as they drip spacekitten pig balls
mircea_popescu: consequently, i don't trust a single word they write down to mean anything in particular, exactly like "how do you know democrat is lying -- his lips are moving" and "why do you have no faith in the xtian church"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform this may be ; but as far as i can see, chinese is 100% "insurance-against-future" by mass. specifically : if py yi shi ki comes to mean the bad, then it never meant that in the first place. but until it does -- it means!
mircea_popescu: hence all that undersexed boyish scrotum scent i was detecting, in eg "dao".
asciilifeform: the ethertard 'dao' or the earlier cn one ?
asciilifeform: ( or both ? )
mircea_popescu: the cn one specifically. was discussion with phf, im trying to fish it out
mircea_popescu: whereby i protested specifically the idiotically adolescent onemanship, "oh, bla bla bla".
mircea_popescu: upmanship* i mean.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-14#1541918 << possibl thread☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-09-14 18:43 phf: people who can't clearly visualize a cause and effect graph trying to do science. dogen is laughing at them all the way from 13th century
mircea_popescu: na na
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-08#1499583 <-> http://btcbase.org/log/2017-12-19#1754340 apparently this is a thread that got meanwhile lost. but discussion was evidently pre mid 2016☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-07-08 14:37 mircea_popescu: fucking "take moar oestrogen" confucius & "wanna hear our inept teenage boyish oneupmanships" zeo-dan derps.
a111: Logged on 2017-12-19 17:24 mircea_popescu: cheap "cleverness" of the male virginarium aka monastery ; in same vein see also http://btcbase.org/log/2016-07-08#1499583
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2012-08-13#-323008 << ancient lulz in the process.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2012-08-13 03:08 mircea_popescu: mtgox from what i understand is losing money, but even so they prolly have more in cash.
mircea_popescu: (this was true, at the time, btw.)
BingoBoingo: Anyways, Chinese language explains Avalon's Cartman moment when they began shipping ASICs among many other things
mircea_popescu: "Sadly one can't mend a tear in the space-time continuum with needle and thread, and similarily one can't repair the fundamental immorality of christianity by superficial moralizing."
mircea_popescu: dude ... i really like my articles. that one is EXACTLY why christianity is despicable.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo surely.
BingoBoingo: The Chinese pool operators agreeing to every different course of action during the Gavinassassinen fork wars, etc
BingoBoingo: It boils down to speaking Chinese with English words
mircea_popescu: recall when they "all agreed" then all didn't do, and every anglotard was surprised at this outcome, and every sinoderp was surprised at the surprise ?
BingoBoingo: I do in deed.
BingoBoingo: And remember how as the anglotards were growing up, all their schools "focused" on teaching cross cultural literacy
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858549 -> precisely why I kept scratching my head at encountering it as a sort of "preferred"/standard stuff in GNAT; honestly I think it was a ...fashion, everything all of a sudden had to be a stream at some point☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-10-05 16:40 asciilifeform: diana_coman: there really aren't so many things that legitimately call for 'streams', i have nfi what the standard authors were thinking...
mircea_popescu: possibru
diana_coman: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-05#1858557 -> heh; kind of why I tend to do the replies all at the end rather than as I read them though it's less convenient☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-10-05 17:04 mircea_popescu: a nm, already in log. doh.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: it's the 'unix philosophy' sad.
asciilifeform: diana_coman: bell labs invented exactly 1 os pheature, and it became 'the hammer for all screws'
diana_coman: can be
asciilifeform: they took it to even moar ridiculous heights in 'plan9'
asciilifeform: ( asciilifeform is not aficionado of 'plan9', but will note that it achieved 1 thing -- was, at its mid-2000s peak, 10x smaller LOC-wise than linux )
diana_coman: I must say that I am ...blissfully unaware of it
asciilifeform: diana_coman: it's quite obscure, never took off industrially
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/10/retired-fbi-agent-intimidated-witness-in-attempt-to-manipulate-political-process/ << Qntra - Retired FBI Agent Intimidated Witness In Attempt To Manipulate Political Process
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: s/nuetral/neutral
BingoBoingo: ty, fxd
mod6: trinque: Looks like the date that your auction closes I'll be busy and not able to settle with you myself.
mod6: BingoBoingo: Please just enter a bid from yourself on behalf of Pizarro for 1 satoshi more than I bid.
mod6: And I think you can just handle the thing then. Thanks.
trinque: I'm not gonna be pissed if you can't handle it same day. Thanks for letting me know.
BingoBoingo: !QBid 366 310080001
lobbesbot: AUCTION # 366: 2000 usd WU Heard: 310.08mn from BingoBoingo overbidding mod6 Ending: 2018-10-19 02:32:35 UTC (318 hours 57 mins)
BingoBoingo: mod6: done
mod6: Perfect, thanks Sir.
asciilifeform: !Q later tell mircea_popescu http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/ql56A/?raw=true
lobbesbot: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
Mocky: a lot of sites are blocked in qatar and i don't know if I'll need it but I'd like to run a web proxy on my pizarro shared hosting just in case. can someone make a recommendation? do I need something like tinyproxy or squid, or is there a way to do it without installing anything?
asciilifeform: Mocky: ssh tunnel
Mocky: asciilifeform, ok thx
asciilifeform: Mocky: 'web proxy' is ssltronic garbage in all cases. what you want is general-purpose proxy, and atm that's ssh tunnel.
asciilifeform: e.g.: ssh -f -L LOCALHOSTPORT:THIRDPARTYBOX:THIRDPARTYPORT YOURREMOTEBOX -N
asciilifeform: ^ and after that you can e.g. http or irc to locahost:LOCALHOSTPORT and get to THIRDPARTYBOX:THIRDPARTYPORT via YOURREMOTEBOX
Mocky: ok
asciilifeform: for moar complex/auto-restarting example, see also http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2017-February/000252.html article
Mocky: cloudfront 504 on that link atm
asciilifeform: urgh
asciilifeform: Mocky: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/uKGVw/?raw=true until the damn thing moves off shitazon
Mocky: asciilifeform, ty
asciilifeform: Mocky: fwiw i very rarely use tunnels as such, usually makes moar sense to simply use browser etc on the remote box via ordinary ssh
asciilifeform: 'screen' proggy is handy there.
asciilifeform: the tunnel thing is for if you find yourself in some fascist bananistan that blocks fleanode etc