log
▁▁⏐▁▁
shinohai: When your shitcoin needs a hardfork to fix a hardfork: https://github.com/ethereum/go-ethereum/releases/tag/v1.5.2
scriba: Restarting for daddy (update help to list owner and to include new command)
shinohai: mircea_popescu lulz; https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5dth6w/who_is_mircea/da7k3ea/?context=3
mircea_popescu: i suppose these will pop up periodically until the end of time.
shinohai: Full of luke-jr butthurt
mircea_popescu: and in other "the summer is here" news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/6cc71fb0286ffd76f249db75faed296c/tumblr_mslu4iBVoh1ro2gueo1_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: !$ archivestats
scriba: Number of URLs seen since bot startup: 3; number of URLs newly archived: 3.
mircea_popescu: i only count 2.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-17#1568940 << next one that pops should obey that rule.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-17 15:06 mircea_popescu: trinque can deedbot rss parsing be unprincipledly altered so that any succession of alphanum characters in excess of 16 spaces is replaced with first4[...]last4 ?
mircea_popescu: win.
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-19#1571137 << not allergic to collab at all; in a couple of days, a V genesis shall be forthcoming on a tidy wad of html generating lisp for the WoT pages.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-19 20:31 Framedragger: or one could even dare to develop something collaboratively, but the republic would surely segfault then.
mircea_popescu: o wait, and it needed no restart ? pretty cool.
trinque: yep, feeds is a separate service that adds entries to a queue
mircea_popescu: smart.
trinque: ty
mircea_popescu: what were you running your lisp on, was it clim ?
trinque: I tend to use sbcl as compiler, then clim is the UI doodad when one's needed
mircea_popescu: so normally you just compile into bytecode via sblc on your box and send the binary to prod box ?
asciilifeform: ... which one of you nuts wanted a copy of phuctor db ??
mircea_popescu: i'll take one anyway.
asciilifeform: bring a 12GB-sized bucket
trinque: mircea_popescu: yep, that's rather nice. save-lisp-and-die saves the memory state of your environment, then runs a specified function when it's awoken.
asciilifeform: anyone else who wants, please pm asciilifeform
trinque: so you make one of those, it tacks the lisp executable to the front of the thing, huck the whole wad at server and restart service
trinque: if it's a development instance of something, I send along "swank" which lets me summon a repl out of the thing and fiddle internals.
mircea_popescu: and the cycle penalty is not significant huh.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform done ty. 100 10.5G 100 10.5G 0 0 97.3M 0 0:01:51 0:01:51 --:--:-- 101M << gotta love real tubes.
asciilifeform: neato
asciilifeform: it helps that we're 'neighbours'.
mircea_popescu: kinda the point.
trinque bash scripts everything significant he does, runs that thing next time.
trinque: whole folder full of deploy-*
mircea_popescu: trinque ever benchmarked something for resource consumption ? like i dunno, lisp-sha in your implementation vs stock sha in c as provided ?
trinque: I will say that I am not fully sold on automatic memory management yet.
trinque ducks
trinque: I'm sold on the structure of the language, but I have had times where I wonder why the fuck the gc hasn't kicked on yet, find folks saying "oh you tricked the gc" researching the problem
trinque: simplest example I can come up with is that I was consing thing to the front of a list, nil-ing things off the back
trinque: and at great volume; this caused sbcl to not want to gc the shit falling off the tail
asciilifeform: trinque: yer doing destructive ops and then wondering where gc was?!
trinque: please explain to me how a list operation as simple as that in "list processing" language is not right in the middle of the groove of the language
asciilifeform: because it isn't magic
trinque: so sure, I called gc myself sometimes, worked
asciilifeform: has heuristics for when to fire. if you don't like'em, gotta (gc)
asciilifeform: or pollute less.
asciilifeform: and it's for 'list processing' in same way as fortran-90 is for 'formulae translation'...
mircea_popescu: yes well not everything can be an immutable structure.
trinque: my list contained identifiers for things coming at me from a queue, where the queue may shit itself and send dupes, but with a maximum possible age of message that is duped
trinque: and dupes are most likely to come from recent messages (say a queue server died before noting that the message was sent)
trinque: seems like a reasonable data structure for it
trinque: it makes me less anti-lisp and more in favor of using some kind of namespaced wad of memory which I can trash all together explicitly.
asciilifeform: trinque: peruse the docs for your particular lisp, most of'em provide knobs for 'dangerous' manual manipulation of the 'auto gearbox', if you will
trinque: most of the time gc works fine; I am certainly still a student of the language.
asciilifeform: trinque: also this'll be good practice for writing 'cons-free' manually-driven lisp, for when we do os bootloader, kernel, similar.
trinque: neat
trinque: asciilifeform: any reading material on the "cons-free" subj?
asciilifeform: trinque: afaik only the leaked smbx lm sources.
asciilifeform: one of the difficulties of the student is that most 'adult' lisp work took place in the era before 'must publish everything', 'open sores', etc.
asciilifeform: there are books even on flying mig. but there are afaik none on flying mig under a non-liftable sea bridge (there is photo of this!). 'cons-free lisp' resembles the latter more than 'sop' operation.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> i actually planted a bunch in romania, for the flowers. << Different salvia. Tripping balls salvia has sparse shitty flowers if it flowers.
trinque: I might be a sick person, but I thought that stuff was great fun.
trinque: completely disorienting
asciilifeform: iirc -- pharmacologically unique
asciilifeform: (in family by itself)
asciilifeform: fwiw i once ate some of its liquid extract (it was at one point freely available in usa, was literally the only type of dope i could physically get !) and it did... zero.
asciilifeform: ( did have strange dream that night, but i often do anyway )
asciilifeform: iirc later it was banned, so it must work on ~somebody~
trinque: gotta torch at high temperature.
shinohai: I had the trinque experience of being completely out-of-head for like 10 minutes
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: 1st pass metabolism is a bitch. Lungs ftw
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ... and it did... zero. << Or you were wired for addiction to that weirdo substance before trying? Lacked the apperception to realize was tripping balls.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: done :)
pete_dushenski: !~calc 29^14
jhvh1: pete_dushenski: 29^14 = 2.9755823267579947E20
pete_dushenski: didn't realise that jhvh1 also adopted the calculator until saw it in-chan yesterday. that sneaky shinohai ! bots directory updated accordingly.
trinque gets space-saving rss code in just as phuctor shuts up
trinque: lol
trinque: not for long, I'm sure.
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: the difference between eyes and electronic sensors on cars, ofc, is that you know when eyes stop working before it's too late. either way, if trumpenreich is to restore full employment to amerika, abolishing the minimum wage will make a full-time chauffeur affordable to anyone who can also spend $100k on a tesla or equiv.
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: watched any of clarkson's new show?
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Not really. Most muricans suck at driving.
BingoBoingo: Not to mention most muricans are broken in their temperment, unsuitable for service work where they interact with customer or customer/employer and require herding employer.
BingoBoingo: if employable at all.
pete_dushenski: ben_vulpes: 'the groand tour' isn't available outside us, uk, and i think oz for another month so... nope. looking forward to it though. you ?
pete_dushenski: grand*
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo: 'most' isn't really an argument now is it. nor was it my point. talking solely about folks buying $100k cars, they're better off sifting through resumes to find a non-retarded driver than shipping their cash to musk et al., what with the rapidly sinking obamanchor tied around their weedy necks.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: I don't think you understand the proportion represented by "most" in that usuage. We are talking about a mass economically crippled by their various "employable if X" bullshits.
pete_dushenski: tis possible. tis also possible that the world won't be worse off if they car-crash themselves off the face of it, be it by their own hand or that of their robot overlords.
pete_dushenski: http://archive.is/SG5uV << in other overlords, bannon compares himself to cromwell.
scriba: Failed to archive. HTTP code: N/A. Exception raised: True
pete_dushenski: thomas, not oliver.
BingoBoingo: !~bcstats
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Current Blocks: 439753 | Current Difficulty: 2.818009171931958E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 441503 | Next Difficulty In: 1750 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 5 days, 1 hour, 39 minutes, and 18 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/2016/11/sec-chair-mary-jo-white-leads-exodus-of-unexpired-appointees-ahead-of-trumpreich/#comment-78877 << win
scriba: Failed to archive. HTTP code: N/A. Exception raised: True
pete_dushenski wonders if anyone else sees potential to be annoyed by scriba's constant interjections vis-a-vis link archival.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/11/bitcoin-network-jumps-10-675-in-latest-adjustment-largest-jump-since-second-halving-so-far/ << Qntra - Bitcoin Network Jumps ~10.675% In Latest Adjustment – Largest Jump Since Second Halving So Far
scriba: Failed to archive. HTTP code: N/A. Exception raised: True
trinque: Framedragger: ^ yo dawg, log somewhere you can read it; the information here is entirely useless to me
pete_dushenski: re: diff jump, largest pool now down to 18%, 2nd place at 17% according to https://blockchain.info/pools. top two pools had ~50% just six months ago when famous bbet tx was 'lost'. competition is heating up within the not-so-monolithic chinese cartel. nothing divides and conquers like btc y'know.
scriba: Failed to archive. HTTP code: N/A. Exception raised: True
pete_dushenski brushes off alfotron on shoulder muttering something barely audibly about 'hash laundry'
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: ViaBTC and antpool are a case of twincest
ben_vulpes: is there any good reason to trust that chart?
BingoBoingo: no
pete_dushenski: my only defense of that likely fraudulent chart is just that a warped measuring stick is at least wrong in a consistent and predictable way. this assumes all sorts of beneficence on the part of bc.i, however.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/11/not-quite-news-roundup-xtend-15-tmr-pence-in-our-time/ << Qntra - Not Quite News Roundup Xtend 15 (TM)(R) – Pence In Our Time
scriba: Failed to archive. HTTP code: N/A. Exception raised: True
pete_dushenski: "it would still be unsurprising if they gave up on their fiction1 and began reporting magenta, dove gray, or old hot dog as their exchange rate" << lol.
pete_dushenski tips cap to bb for xtend mention of silly bet.
BingoBoingo: yw, not really news, but involves crypto certifiable persons
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-20#1571320 << tru.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-20 02:43 BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> i actually planted a bunch in romania, for the flowers. << Different salvia. Tripping balls salvia has sparse shitty flowers if it flowers.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-20#1571339 << all drunk crashes in history beg to differ.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-20 03:29 pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: the difference between eyes and electronic sensors on cars, ofc, is that you know when eyes stop working before it's too late. either way, if trumpenreich is to restore full employment to amerika, abolishing the minimum wage will make a full-time chauffeur affordable to anyone who can also spend $100k on a tesla or equiv.
mircea_popescu: steve bannon planning "entirely new political movement" ? OH WHO COULD HAVE PREDICTED!
mircea_popescu: other than they who did.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-20#1571360 "when will we ever learn... when will we ever learn." and with music now! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9t7LbNpQcE☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-20 05:10 pete_dushenski: re: diff jump, largest pool now down to 18%, 2nd place at 17% according to https://blockchain.info/pools. top two pools had ~50% just six months ago when famous bbet tx was 'lost'. competition is heating up within the not-so-monolithic chinese cartel. nothing divides and conquers like btc y'know.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i love the "immanent trumpreich" bit. kant ftw.
scriba: Restarting for logging update
Framedragger: trinque: you're right. was laziness on my part (it logs to actual log, too, so this is unneeded to boot)
mircea_popescu: incidentally, did we ever do pl/i ?
mircea_popescu: "Allocate an array and free the middle third? Sure! Why not? Multiply a character string times a bit string and assign the result to a float decimal? Go ahead! Free a controlled variable procedure parameter and reallocate it before passing it back? Overlay three different types of variable on the same memory location? Anything you say! Write a recursive macro? Well, no, but Real Men use rescan."
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: lol, anyways I'm planning to subtitle Xtends going forward so I can tell WTF past extends were roughly about
mircea_popescu: aha
BingoBoingo: 14 was a lot of number, 15 still a lot of number, next week still more number
shinohai smacks jhvh1 for not tweeting the latest Xtended.
mircea_popescu: lol you autotweet them ?
shinohai: Autotweets all Qntra and trilemas
mircea_popescu: where ?
BingoBoingo: http://oglaf.com/pulp-n-rind/
shinohai: https://twitter.com/SatoshiShinohai/status/800067414918467584 <<< for example
mircea_popescu: o hey.
mircea_popescu: somebody should tell ver the 2010s blue shirts are no longer fashionable.
shinohai: I keep trolling ver but he won't block me! @zooko blocked me with a *single* tweet
mircea_popescu: hm. actually - somebody should help ver along the lines of http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-19#1570491 as it occurs telling the poor man ain't gonna do much.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-19 04:41 mircea_popescu: "no, i found it in a plastic bag in the alley behind the hotel where i used to work."
shinohai: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CxppNdbW8AAqfSa.jpg <<< troll harder
mircea_popescu: at least she has her active social life to fall back on.
asciilifeform: !!up frompeanutgaller
deedbot: frompeanutgaller voiced for 30 minutes.
asciilifeform: aww.
Framedragger: ^ london. gchq waved a quick "hi"
asciilifeform: it is likely from a http://webchat.freenode.net i left in reddit thread somebody put here the other day.
Framedragger: the public outreach efforts are commendable
asciilifeform: them peanut folk are surprisingly shy
asciilifeform: (we had how many, few dozen? 'fromphuctor' folk. and 1, 2, spoke ?)
Framedragger: maybe not used to irc. "i can't add a shallow-pun-comment and feel like i contributed. i'm supposed to do.. dialogue, or something."
asciilifeform: do they not have conversations in meatspace..?
Framedragger: i think that many of them do not, in the sense that e.g. you understand "conversation". i don't know. i got that picture when i had spent time on reddit.
Framedragger: socially awkward and generally inept, choose 2 of 2 to describe typical redditor.
asciilifeform: i got acct on reddit 10 years ago now... still remember when there were ~people~ there
asciilifeform: for short time, 2006-7ish.
Framedragger: tbh i think there still are some small subreddits with people. couldn't confirm tho.
asciilifeform: and there is gold and uranium in ocean water.
asciilifeform: (almost the entire mendeleev table, in fact!111)
Framedragger: /r/askhistorians is sometimes okay (very strict moderation, removal of inane comments, and banning of stupid users.)
Framedragger: not saying it's worth the effort to dig!
Framedragger: (e.g. current new post & answer; didn't read in detail: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/5dwk60/how_bad_would_it_have_smelled_in_a_medieval_city/ )
mircea_popescu: i don't think the general public is mentally capable of using irc. it just doesn't fit the reddit/disqus/chatroulette/4chan/whatever thing
shinohai: Oh WE MUST HAZ SLACK NAU
shinohai: with emojis! How can you chat w/out emojis?
mircea_popescu: which is kinda the point - the context must be a) narrow and b) poking you in the eye. the problem with irc, and es-fucking-pecially irc as practiced here is that the context is vast, so vast it makes a circle much further out than the general myopia can perceive.
asciilifeform: shinohai: 'slack' is simply today's 'aol messenger', 'icq', same '90s centralized chatroom item. sufficiently similar, on surface, to irc, that i'd imagine folks would be used to the concept ?
mircea_popescu: nah, icq was cool. to this day it dominates the pronz, but back in the 90s it was simply the thing./
asciilifeform: srsly?! today?!
mircea_popescu: aha.
asciilifeform: the central box still runs?!
mircea_popescu: oya. most people involved on the business side still have and daily use icq
asciilifeform mind boggles
asciilifeform: in 2003 i bought a massive hp pa-risc box (complete with emp shielding grates, power supply on wheeled rails, etc) and it turned out to have been an old aol 'messenger' server !
mircea_popescu: hey, hi5 actually survived a while in foreign markets also.
asciilifeform: (sadly nothing of interest was to be found therein, but for the fact)
Framedragger: "emp shielding grates, power supply on wheeled rails" << that's just plain sexy
asciilifeform: at any rate from my 'general's armchair' i am hard-pressed to technically distinguish aim, watsap, icq, slack.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger ironically, it didn't smell that bad. smell is a subjective sense.
Framedragger: subjective and context-adjusting / relative, i guess? makes sense
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform icq is os.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-08-22#1527135 << thread☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-08-22 21:07 asciilifeform: phf: even as late as late '90s, machines with such 'feel' were made.
mircea_popescu: or at least was back when the jews owned it, no idea now. iirc aol actually bought them
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there were, iirc, openly published clients for all of these
asciilifeform: the ~servers~ were centralized
mircea_popescu: also from a cultural pov perspective - it was the first one of many things ; including the first im.
mircea_popescu: at a time when irc required a lot more competence to use.
mircea_popescu: note that irc is also based on centralized servers, freenode flimflammery about donated servers aside - sure, you can donate, if your name doesn't start with m, but n.
asciilifeform: in the same sense where ftp is
asciilifeform: who wants - go, make server.
mircea_popescu: no. in the same exact sense facebook is.
mircea_popescu: who wants - go, make facebook.
mircea_popescu: but the notion of handling 1to1 rather than 1tomany and manyto1 is not without merit ; and it allowed them to protect the users from many problems of irc, which is why it blew past irc usage by 2000
asciilifeform: eh they were all 'manyto1', the 1 centralized aol box. (at least in the case of aol messenger, which was popular in usa at the time)
mircea_popescu: icq predates aim.
Framedragger: !#s federated xmpp
a111: 1 result for "federated xmpp", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=federated%20xmpp
asciilifeform blows dust off protocol docs
Framedragger: ahaha, 2013: "mircea_popescu: i would never use anything that implements a protocol for any serious purpose anymore."
Framedragger: "mircea_popescu: bitcoin isn't a protocol, it's a fucking c hairball."
Framedragger: nice
mircea_popescu: lol wtf is this
Framedragger: this is mircea_popescu in september 2013, in response to "pankkake: federated xmpp isn't that bad. it can do voice/video/text with encryption" ;)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2013-09-12#303862 << better quote.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2013-09-12 00:26 mircea_popescu: just don't try to sell me on any sort of comittees making "industry standards" or anything.
mircea_popescu: early republican sentiment!
Framedragger: yeah, fair 'nuff
asciilifeform: seems like icq used central server exactly as aol.
mircea_popescu: no. aol used central server exactly like icq.
asciilifeform: (actual p2p chat between kons000mer d00dz behind NATs was impractical then just as now)
mircea_popescu: and in other things that apparently if incomprehensibly still exist, http://www.litespeedtech.com/index.php/solutions/shared-hosting-users
asciilifeform: weirdo proprietary httptron?
asciilifeform: iirc microshit's is still around also..
mircea_popescu: drop-in apache replacement!
mircea_popescu: i strongly doubt it actually does any replacing, but hey.
asciilifeform: hey if ~proprietary pgp~ still exists...
shinohai: Professor Jay Forrester, inventor of RAM, dies at 1100010 http://archive.is/3RNi9
asciilifeform: 'Forrester became a critic of growth, a position that earned him few friends.'
asciilifeform: mccarthy, ritchie, forrester, gone... when the good doktor knuth finally kicks it, it'll be finally time to glass the place
asciilifeform: nothing but roaches - left.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform absolutely everyone, from grace hopper to you name it, went away 1990-2010.
asciilifeform: вызываю огонь на себя ! (tm) (r)
mircea_popescu: Framedragger re the above, consider just the fucking x.500 x.509 debacle.
mircea_popescu: there is exactly 0 value in the bureaucrat ontology.
Framedragger: ah, good example.. (yeah totally agree here)
mircea_popescu: for that matter, exercise for the curious youth : find out why the 21st pin on the system bus in your fucking machine can be set to zero.
mircea_popescu: or, for that matter, look into why triple-fault switching rather than using the god damned reset signal ended up a programming standard.
mircea_popescu: or on it goes.
asciilifeform: '640k is enough for anyone' (tm)
mircea_popescu: (pro tip - triple fault resetting is STILL in the linux kernel.)
asciilifeform: it -- notably -- worx on all x86 boxen, unlike the acpi 'soft reset' crapola which -- not so much
mircea_popescu: hey - standards, amirite.
asciilifeform: (btw when you throw acpi crapolade out of linuxbios, the binary shrinks 2x)
asciilifeform: 'BUT IT WOULD BE WRONG'
mircea_popescu: here's the whole story of standard : 1. hey, wouldn't it be great if we mattered ? 2. so if it'd be great, then therefore we matter! 3. our not mattering is wrong!
asciilifeform: 4. watch those schmucks over there, they built a working machine. and now nobody needs'em, they dun MATTER. 5. we will not make this mistake
mircea_popescu: "Allocate an array and free the middle third? Sure! Why not?"
asciilifeform has a relative who moved to usa in 1980s and made phat wage programming in PL/I for many many years. it is 'featurism' incarnate, like american legal code. and for roughly same reason.
mircea_popescu: the thing everyone-but-us fails to comprehend is that the ~only way in which a relatively simple functional system becomes the de facto standard is through a lofty body of pretense declaring a much more complex and dysfunctional system "the standard".
asciilifeform: there were (and for all i know, still !) periodic conventions where folks would demand MOAR featuritis
mircea_popescu: i'm sure.
asciilifeform: and i always liked to imagine that a pl/i programmer dies like the proverbial talmudist dies, when a volume of the megalithic encyclopaedia of crapolade finally falls on his head from the top shelf
mircea_popescu: http://archive.is/SG5uV << this is actuallty a pretty decent read (by virtue of the anodyne jew "authoring" the piece out of mostly verbatim bannon material)
mircea_popescu: the point where the murdoch clan is going to probably try and reconstruct "conservative" fox into a "centrist" bullshit built around that mispelled megan kelly harlot (really, ambitious news anchor who lied about the network boss "sexually harassing" her to try and take his place, what a fine clinton!)
mircea_popescu: and the point where the conservatives are likely going to hate trump more than the liberals ever did, two years from now.
mircea_popescu: the point where hillary talked to the WRONG set of 9bn-worth corps with 9 employees, ie the failure of the usg to elect its candidate has exactly to do with the elites deserting it in favour of the republic, ie http://trilema.com/2016/to-be-clear-hillary-clinton-lost-the-presidential-election-on-june-16th-2016/
mircea_popescu: now the part where the financial markets afford a once-in-a-century opportunity to rebuild is sound ; but the part where jacked up "iron works and shipyards" are the answer is ridiculous.
asciilifeform: or say, mr.t's 'rebuild and reinvigorate' (or what was it) nsa/cia
asciilifeform: догоним и перегоним !
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's no way around it - us signals is more of a joke than stalin's were in 1938.
mircea_popescu: whole thing has to be scrapped and rebuilt, they're a laughingstock not for actually competent players such as romania, but for utter nobodies from fucking arfrica / latam
asciilifeform: and what is this 'rebuild' nonsense. where is the smoke of the ovens cremating the megatonnes of defective hyooman materiel ?
asciilifeform: i dun smell any smoke.
mircea_popescu: hey, ask 'em not me.
mircea_popescu: anyway, it's clear bannon has no more use of the gop than of the dems ; trump's intelligent ouvertures to libertard reps evidently bear his signature. you're going to get your brown shirts next year chances are.
asciilifeform practices, 'Spieß voran! Drauf und dran! Setzt aufs Princetondach den Roten Hahn!'
mircea_popescu wonders if by trumpreich rules, he is more us citizen than colored woman born there.
asciilifeform: there are really 2 'trumpreichs', the imaginary, spherical one, which is friend of tmsr, sound money, etc. and the physical one, that is (to borrow from lenin) 'we smashed the old shithouse and now gotta build new one using the bricks of the old'
mircea_popescu: lol ok
asciilifeform: in the former - yes, d00d like mircea_popescu who can do arithmetic and write down the alphabet, say, is citizen, and locally born monkey - not.
asciilifeform: in the latter - i have nfi. SHIPYARDS!11111
asciilifeform off to try an' get $useful_thing done, bbl.
mircea_popescu: nobody planning to spend a trn dollars can possibly be for sound money.
Framedragger: !#s mpex
a111: 59379 results for "mpex", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=mpex
Framedragger: "dns"
mircea_popescu: hm ?
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: i'm putting up a webpage which mentions phuctor, and i want to give reference to S.NSA as the corporation which produced phuctor. how do i link to mpex?
Framedragger: can i link by ip address? if so, which?
Framedragger: or is it not supposed to be reachable by non-mpex-users?
mircea_popescu: 23.235.235.115 23.235.235.227 for example.
Framedragger: ah, ty!
mircea_popescu: you can archive pages if you prefer.
Framedragger: yo scriba, http://23.235.235.115
Framedragger: and http://23.235.235.227
mircea_popescu: anyway, ima get it some more domains jus didn't get around to it
mircea_popescu: but the important point here i guess is that mpex is a service ; not a publisher. you're essentially asking "how do i include some pigeons in my book"
mircea_popescu: well... unless you have a camera that works, i have no idea. the pigeons ~themselves~ aren't book-ready.
Framedragger: sure, i guess i catch the drift
mircea_popescu: holy shit learn to distinguish fact and desire. or whatever, hillary 2016!
Framedragger: !#s simondon
a111: 0 results for "simondon", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=simondon
Framedragger: ^ this guy (died ca. 1960?) had things to say about cyberpunk. deleuze stole from him.
Framedragger: iirc theres an essay on technical object, i admit to not reading it in whole, it's in mah list tho.
Framedragger: but, it has that.. continental philosophy style. however, compared to deleuze and derrida, much less bullshit-y.
mircea_popescu: cyberpunk as understood by bartle-likes is very different from what you think about. in this dork's mind it's strictly us and a consumer affair, of the 70s. like disco hair, us-gayness, pulp fiction or mechanical pianos.
mircea_popescu: "no matter how you do your hair, you still gotta wake up when the alarm rings on monday morning" === "the real world always wins in the end".
Framedragger: aha. mh yeah that sounds pretty derp
mircea_popescu: it's soundly set on the footing of "i have no philosophy, just some hobbies to pass the time". americana entire, moreso than picket fences.
mircea_popescu: kinda why they spent the 90s fascinated with fad diets and "issues". content-free "people".
mod6 adventures in db4.8_dump
shinohai: The guy that tried scamming Eulora promotion moved on to scamming via faucet: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1674878
mod6: what a dolt. with less effort you can mine with your hands in eulora ftw.
mod6: "hey kid, mow the lawn."
shinohai: He got butthurt because of getting caught and negrated me for not getting payed xD
mod6: smh
mod6: "i scammed you fair and square! you're a shitty victim! *negrate*"
shinohai: lel
mod6: what's the old saying "scammers gonna scam"
mod6: you should have seen -otc in '11
shinohai: In my few dealing on otc, I was fortunate enough to already know someone trustworthy there.
shinohai: Was the only guy I ever dealt with.
mod6: werd
jhvh1: [gpgram] pete_dushenski http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/xyqj7/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: doh
mircea_popescu: speaking of this, and re http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-18#1569760 : a) it was actually exactly the same usg pays via min wage (out of private pockets, but w/e, usg is the REAL government, not the republic hurr durr) and b) it made people do sensible things such as making pgp keys. a certain ammount of this "wash yourself" "read a book" basic training will have to be done forcibly, because ontogenesis may follow philogenesis,☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-18 16:46 asciilifeform: iirc there were earlier instances where mircea_popescu and other folx tried to recycle'em into something: the incident with the rental posters (who was that..?), the 'get epsilon btc to make eulora player', possibly other instances of beehive-fucking
mircea_popescu: but it sure as fuck dun follow kalliergesis.
mircea_popescu: more importantly c) intelligent folks know about it but dun seem inclined to try it ; perhaps because preconceived notions (oh, a game is below my intelligence and i couldn't be happy with a black woman), perhaps for whatever other cause.
mircea_popescu: so you know, yes i do spend my money to make the world a less shitty place but plox don't take this as some sort of free radical ready to be combined with your stubborn refusal and yield whatever nutty interpretation. it ain't that free a radical.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger and i suppose the point should be made, that yes wiener-cybernetics is an exercise in being ridiculous.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-20#1571570 << which wiener cybernetics ? the one in the book, with the analogue feedback loop machines etc ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-20 22:46 mircea_popescu: Framedragger and i suppose the point should be made, that yes wiener-cybernetics is an exercise in being ridiculous.
asciilifeform: (it is, incidentally, the idiot word salad 'fandom' of ~this~ 'cybernetics' that stalin banhammered, and not some other, practical thing)
mircea_popescu: yes, the one with the "i'm going to describe the object according to genus and species i already have because lulz, my mom fucked herself to the moon"
asciilifeform: as a student i read the thing, expecting the worst, but it was surprisingly sane
asciilifeform: it was the 'fandom', on the other hand...
mircea_popescu: all good jokes are persuasive, necessarily. the problem however is fundamental and ineluctable, or in simondon's own terms
mircea_popescu: gah this place keeps forcing me to go digging through archives.
asciilifeform: (needless to say, wiener's b00k has 0 to do with computer or any similar mechanism from today)
asciilifeform: http://uberty.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/Norbert_Wiener_Cybernetics.pdf << 133333337 w4r3z for anyone who for some odd reason needs this.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-20#1571565 << 'min wage' as found in usa and elsewhere is a complex and long-term parasitic relationship, not a d00d who throws a penny at a bootblack and expects something other than derisive smirk☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-20 22:39 mircea_popescu: speaking of this, and re http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-18#1569760 : a) it was actually exactly the same usg pays via min wage (out of private pockets, but w/e, usg is the REAL government, not the republic hurr durr) and b) it made people do sensible things such as making pgp keys. a certain ammount of this "wash yourself" "read a book" basic training will have to be done forcibly, because ontogenesis may follow philogenesis,
asciilifeform: the 'min wage' folx do this thing... where was the thread, with the 'we make a home!'
mircea_popescu: "des le debut, la cybernetique a accepte ce que toute theorie de la technologie doit refuser : une classification des objets technologues menee par des criteres preexistants et selon des genres et especes etabils."
asciilifeform: this is why 'convert stupid folx' is imho a total and irredeemable dead end -- because they are not ~that~ stupid, and - while knowing that beelzebub created them to die in a uranium mine at age 19, there is instead this scam where they get 'picket fence house' and a 'ford.' so why should they volunteer for the mine.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform your fixation with "a penny" doesn't help however. it wasn't a penny, it was more than they make at home.
asciilifeform: but a 1time moar, neh?
mircea_popescu: neh.
mircea_popescu: it was open ended.
asciilifeform: i'ma stfu re this point, because i never eulora'd.
asciilifeform: so i have nfi
mircea_popescu: neither did they :)
asciilifeform: if it actually contains a 'min wage' apparatus inside somewhere, that these folx could theoretically pay rent from, i take it all back.
mircea_popescu: it was an epic, explosive proof of the whole "poor people are poor because they are stupid, and for no other reason."
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if you were to write timetables, how much time would you count "generate a pgp key and register it with deedbot" ? full hour ? ten minutes ? full day ?
asciilifeform: it depends -- must i first learn the alphabet ?
mircea_popescu: this is not how this job works.
asciilifeform: well, for the purpose of this hypothetical, gotta pick, man or monkey
mircea_popescu: you familiar with how army works ?
asciilifeform: if monkey - i cannot answer , i am not a trainer of monkeys, do not know how long it takes
asciilifeform: yes.
mircea_popescu: to load up f-19 with sidewinders, 32 minutes
mircea_popescu: to refuel plane under deck, 117 minutes
mircea_popescu: etc.
asciilifeform: but army has iq cutoff.
mircea_popescu: use the same cutoff.
mircea_popescu: or use whatever sane cutoff. after all - this is human resource engineering not metaphysics.
asciilifeform: i'd give a literate tank loader , say, 30 min.
asciilifeform: to make pgp key.
mircea_popescu: so then. by this token working eulora would have paid them MORE than what going to college would have paid them.
mircea_popescu: which means that if i charged them 50k a year for four years in advance - they'd be about even.
asciilifeform: well that's for the intro. but does it smell sufficiently like 'meal ticket' ?
asciilifeform: how much play does it take to extract, say, 1btc, with 'manual labour' ?
Framedragger: asciilifeform: btw banners: i'm yet to clean up the logs (some time next week or thereafter), but just in case you're eager (prolly have lots on yer head tho), here they are: http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/banners/ ; s1 has 13 files corresponding to the 13 bundles; s2 is from the additional bundle i sent you later (the re-scan + additional hosts). together this constitutes whole ipv4.
mircea_popescu: there's no manual labour, it's a computer.
Framedragger: the *banners.txt's are my partial cleanup, *_err_scan.log's are the original stderr's (with some junk in them). but i will clean this myself later. and siphnos.mkj.lt is where i'll host phuctor-related data. (it's on a separate unused vps, got an 'ok' from $work for now.)
asciilifeform: (1 btc / mo. will buy a starvation-level existence in the cheaper parts of usa. supposing you also know how to convert it to zimbabwistan currencies.)
asciilifeform: Framedragger: do not hurry. my hands - quite full atm.
Framedragger: kk. :)
mircea_popescu: but, that aside, with no actual work (ie, on a windows machine, which is how we say "unprogrammable computer") something like a coupla weeks.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform for the record, i pegged same at 1hr rather than 30mins, but anyways.
asciilifeform: would this 'mineral' coin remain, waiting to be dug out, in the game, if sizeable population of these folx actually appeared to look for it ..?
mircea_popescu: no. i would have obviously been forced to end it eventually. however, they didn't even come fucking close to giving me a run for my money.
Framedragger: (and for logs, http://siphnos.mkj.lt/datadrop/ << all data from ssh scans, in a more stable place.)
asciilifeform: perhaps these people are slightly more 'long term' thinkers than appearances let on ?
asciilifeform: and mother taught them 'no free lunch'
mircea_popescu: understand the forces at work here - some dork famously promised to pay anyone commenting in his thing 1 bitcent if trump won. then trump won, and he ran off over a debt of ... 25btc, accumulated from a "massive" 2500 comments.
mircea_popescu: i on the other hand paid out 1k btc on a whim.
mircea_popescu: so yes - there'd be need for either 40 reddits ; or else you know, for less amphibian brains.
mircea_popescu: but the "long term thinker" theory utterly fails when confronted with daily reality.
asciilifeform: notice how 'civilians' (reddit folk etc) still react in disbelief when they read about mpex having worked as-described ? they will sooner believe in telekinesis, ufo proctologists abducting 50yo d00dz, divine healings, etc.
asciilifeform: because a d00d keeping promises re money is so far removed from everyday experience of homo americanicus
mircea_popescu: anyway - the point remains, there are REASONS i / we discredit things. there ACTUALLY WAS A WAY for "bitcoin community" on tardstalk to impress me.
mircea_popescu: jsut as there was a way, years ago, for "bitcoin developer community" to impress me.
mircea_popescu: that these doors successively close doth not mean they weren't there.
asciilifeform: monkeys do not know how to turn door knob.
shinohai found it a rather fun experiment, learned quite a bit along the way.
asciilifeform: then -- or now.
mircea_popescu: and therefore people are poor because stupid and for no other reasons.
mircea_popescu: but anyway - at issue is not what is claimed / appears to be at issue. at issue is that people want to be paid to do what they were going to do anyway, and not, for any reason, njot ever, be paid to change what they do or how they do it.
mircea_popescu: which is why i got all the fiverr dorks failing miserably - they were simply applying the homer simpson heuristic - "i will now chomp my jaws and if a pie happens to go in the way a well".
mircea_popescu: which is why - write 2500 pointless comments on reddit, yay! but make yourself a key nay!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform consider the following amusing datapoint - other than the "intro" ie, first bitcent, people could make more through digging up ordinary claims for me. the way this works is that you end up with a lot of material, which has to be taken back to town, but you can't carry it, because overweight. there is A BOT! written, documented on wiki, discussed on channel, that shortcuts this.
mircea_popescu: the few dudes who actually worked this dragged the fucking load BY HAND making DOZENS of trips. in spite of being told to read logs and read wiki.
mircea_popescu: same thing could have been done by the built-in bot.
asciilifeform: btw the same folx who spat on eulora coin -- happily jumped through 1,001 hoops to participate in pyramids on tardstalk etc. because, i suspect, they are not actually stupid, and pyramid offers the dull an opportunity to ~scan next level down~. whereas they could not see where greater fool is to come from at eulora.
mircea_popescu: in one trip. with all the oversight of looking over two times over six minutes.
asciilifeform: *scam next
mircea_popescu: why not ?
asciilifeform: sorta how if i throw some gold dust in a crack in city pavement, it will not lead to a gold rush
asciilifeform: but if in an old mine - it might.
mircea_popescu: they could have sold fucking ebooks about how to make money, like all the other shit they do. what is an "infoproduct" and why doesn't this qualify ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: because even the dull know that bitcoin cannot be magicked out of the aether.
mircea_popescu: get out of here.
mircea_popescu: it's not even clear the general population knows it's not edible.
asciilifeform: actually this may well be. and this train of thought has gone off the cliff of asciilifeform's very, very limited experience with the Expertly Sad demographic.
Framedragger: i would wager a claim that hackernews folk - those who need the money and who click through - would be more motivated and more reflective than tardstalk kids (with large enough sample sizes to confirm). i'll consider finding some suitable wording to be posted there, assuming there being interest.
Framedragger: (and yes HN is evil and it's possible it's censoring asciilifeform's posts)
asciilifeform: Framedragger: you can try, our material generally lasts 1-2 hrs. there.
mircea_popescu: Framedragger you will rediscover the same thing : that all the love for ycombinator comes out of the misplaced hopes of a bunch of potheads that graham will pay them to... be potheads.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: i've seen (and i've posted under a normal-to-their-eyes non-newbie account myself, but mine may have just not attracted interest), fuck them, yes
asciilifeform: Framedragger: what isn't clear to me is that we lose anything thereby
mircea_popescu: since thye have no such hope about me, they "don't like" me. and so on. it's an easy enough game to play, but honestly i'd rather move to thailand and "seduce" the local whores, $50 at a time.
asciilifeform: the hn, reddit, etc. bots+meatpuppets collectively sum to 0 imho.
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: oh, i hear you, i've no love there. but some smart people still hang out there. but, yes, naivete of the youth, i submit that i've nothing to show until i've something to show
mircea_popescu: in which vein, let me recount a little anecdote from personal history.
Framedragger: the thailand plan intuitively attracts more, true..
asciilifeform: Framedragger: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5dth6w/who_is_mircea << linked here last night. i left a webirc thing in there. total: 1 click. and 0 words.
mircea_popescu: so yesterday i went to a bdsm vip party. this consists of about a hundred people in a hotel rented for the purpose. i brought the hottest girl there, by a fat margin. i took up a loft, with a nice view on the people below, cropped her lightly, fucked her and had a good time. while all this was going on, in a different place they were having an "auction" based on tokens from some dumbass website they have.
mircea_popescu: because hey, selling the dumbasses for actual money would expose a) their collective poverty and b) force change. so they use tokens, which supposedly come "from activity", ie like reddit gold, but in practice are a transparent ploy to enforce a social hierarchy without social basis. ie, EXACTLY ycombinator.
asciilifeform: usd is not so distant from reddit token.
mircea_popescu: a dude "won" like three of the derpy adolescentine chicks, for an absurdly astronomical amount (literally, just his supposed bids overstate activity on that website by a factor of more than 100).
mircea_popescu: then he proceeded to... use them. guess what this usage consisted of ?
asciilifeform: (in terms for how seriously heavy holders come by it)
Framedragger: https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/5dth6w/who_is_mircea/da7oidf/ << heheh
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what do the 'winners' typically do with the 'win' ?
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: use them by observing how other people fuck?
Framedragger: or making girls fuck so he can observe them?
Framedragger: this is amusing
mircea_popescu: mno. you'd think at the very least he'd fuck them, but... no. he... masturbated them.
Framedragger: oh
mircea_popescu: all through this seeking my approval in the sense of trying to verify if im all that impressed. i... wasn't fucking impressed, because why the fuck would i be impressed with the male nurse.
Framedragger: kinda makes me sad
mircea_popescu: that's the problem with social hierarchies without social basis : they corrupt, fundamentally. the "leader" becomes the servant.
mircea_popescu: i could have told mine to jump off the fucking balcony. she would have.
asciilifeform: this is quite puzzling, if you aren't into public fuck ( as asciilifeform for instance is not ) WHY COME to such party
mircea_popescu: he couldn't as much as take their fucking knickers off because omaygerd amarisho!!1
mircea_popescu: because they're into herding.
mircea_popescu: and herding animals will go wherever there's herding safe spaces.
mircea_popescu: which bdsm sould be exactly about NOT, but hey, let common people get involved in things, the things will look like common people.
mircea_popescu: but back to the issue : they want to be paid to do what they were going to do anyway AND STRICTLY THAT.
asciilifeform: was showing up to this gig somehow 'expected', what, officemates in the dept. of derpland seekoority would make fun of d00d who didn't show ?
mircea_popescu: nah.
Framedragger: "i heard bdsm is the trend nao, i'll go there". such a waste...
mircea_popescu: it's mostly a collection of confused girlies and hopelessly dorky dudes
asciilifeform: roughly what sort of bag of money was needed to get in the door ?
mircea_popescu: plus a few public servants, plus a few occasionals who have been bringing their WIFE who is also their sunday slave once a few months for years.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't think money does it. they charge like 20 bux a head (yes, same for male or female, SAME IF ALONE etc!!1), but i think i'm on the list mostly because they're petriscared of me. it isn't open to the general public.
Framedragger: "no possibility of transcend", so to speak, following protocol. (re. "can you pay me to do what i'm used to doing when i get paid")
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: that's the whole fucking point. liberals ? NIGGA WHAT ?!?! nobody is a liberal, the last one died in siberia.
mircea_popescu: they're UBERconservative, so fucking self-protective it boggles anyone's mind.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: it isn't so different from ordinary concept of 'profession'. cobbler expects to be paid to make boots, not to sweep street. etc
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform none of (reddit clicking / forum derping / bdsming) is a profesion.
mircea_popescu: they are supposed to be the opposite of professions : educations.
asciilifeform: well no. but same circuits are engaged.
mircea_popescu: wrongly.
Framedragger: i'm sure that making say decent artisan boots ain't fuckin' easy at all. (sure, working as a knob in a large factory is another thing - though i'd like to see redditards sweat many hours a day at factory and not call for mommy)
mircea_popescu: not a matter of easy or hard. a mater of separating vocation from avocation and your imortal soul from the fucking commerce spiel.
mircea_popescu: also known as "have some fucking self respect" in some circles.
asciilifeform: Framedragger: most folx in usa working 'office job' are not doing anything considerably different, in aesthetic or even results, than reddit click
mircea_popescu: which is why they're so lost.
Framedragger: i do see the general parallel, sure..
asciilifeform: (and often there is considerable time on literal reddit etc. involved.)
Framedragger: yeah.
Framedragger: incidentally on HN frontpage http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/11/20/jobs/quit-social-media-your-career-may-depend-on-it.html
asciilifeform: and american-style liberasty is simply the indignation of one set of redditors that the other is paid, while they - not
mircea_popescu: this isn't even so far off.
mircea_popescu: "marxism" reconstructed in social media jealousy.
mircea_popescu: "why myspace users make myspace gold which is worth three reddit gold ?!?!? UNFARE!"