BingoBoingo: ;;bc,stats
gribble: Current Blocks: 401773 | Current Difficulty: 1.584272037673917E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 403199 | Next Difficulty In: 1426 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 1 week, 2 days, 6 hours, 14 minutes, and 1 second | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
BingoBoingo: ;;nethash
gribble: 1143162073.27
nubbins`: mp sure is zzzzz today
nubbins`: hanbot i just heard about your 58mn ECu loss -- maybe when you're able to do something other than run the mouth and lose money, people might care what you have to say?
nubbins`: until then, you're kinda just a dr. forehead but better at bleeding cash
mats: is this feud going to be an ongoing thing in the logs now
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44195 @ 0.00052785 = 23.3283 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: i was done until mp decided he'd have another shot at his trump impersonation
hanbot: mircea_popescu meh, i guess eskimociuciu has eternal representation so long as the current voice distributes so much chum.
BingoBoingo: !b1
BingoBoingo: !b 1
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/3TVZRMS.txt )
BingoBoingo: some old references there
hanbot: ;;later_tell williamdunne feel free to pm me for ro chat/queries also. though my principle strength seems to be accidentally portmanteauing.
gribble: Error: "later_tell" is not a valid command.
hanbot: ;;later tell williamdunne feel free to pm me for ro chat/queries also. though my principle strength seems to be accidentally portmanteauing.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
hanbot: BingoBoingo shit apparently doesn't change much.
BingoBoingo: hanbot: Some things/people change. Others simply change the body they reside in. Reverse of the everybody is MP deal. Everbody is bobciu
BingoBoingo: or ciubob
hanbot: hahaha, sounds about right.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58479 @ 0.00052907 = 30.9395 BTC [+] {4}
BingoBoingo: Maybe Husciu Obobma?
BingoBoingo: brb mtg
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67548 @ 0.0005296 = 35.7734 BTC [+] {2}
TomServo: be right back, magic: the gathering?
nubbins`: ^
mircea_popescu: it took five passes until "Reverse of the everybody is MP deal. Everbody is bobciu" coallesced into " Reverse of the (everybody is MP) deal. Everbody is bobciu"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63972 @ 0.00052757 = 33.7497 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: ;;ud mtg
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=mtg | mtg. stands for Magic: The Gathering. A very good and very popular trading card game by Wizards of the Coast. Far superior to Pokemon but targets an older ...
mircea_popescu: guess it must be.
nubbins`: ;;ud parallel conversation
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Parallel+Chatting | The phenomena that occurs when an online chat morphs into two parallel conversations, usually as a result of one person continuing a conversation w...
danielpbarron: i used to play it; still got my cards
TomServo: same. I should prolly divest them along with my bitcoins, eh?
mircea_popescu: does it exist online or is it actually cards in person thing ?
TomServo: both, I believe
danielpbarron: i mostly did cards in person. there was a windows client called apprentice i used a little
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40403 @ 0.00052649 = 21.2718 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50834 @ 0.00052649 = 26.7636 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: i think i actually might have played this on the ipad back when i did teh "literature survey" for s.mg
nubbins`: til mp owns an ipad
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-03-2016#1427354 << when pigs fly to orbit☝︎
assbot: Logged on 08-03-2016 23:35:45; mircea_popescu: assbot> Report: Elon Musk, Tim Cook, and Larry Page meet to halt Trump’s ascendancy << somebody's worried about being cutoff from wasting public funds to maintain their "businesses" or wut.
asciilifeform: e.g., palantir, has higher priority than post office, literally
mircea_popescu: you're kidding, right ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75550 @ 0.00052604 = 39.7423 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: nope
mircea_popescu: mcdonalds has higher priority than walmart, which has higher priority than the army.
mircea_popescu: palantir may be above elon musk, but the whole thing is a "youth communist movement" side project.
mircea_popescu: gone in a weekend.
asciilifeform: you haven't seen the post in my town...
mircea_popescu: makes no diff.
mircea_popescu: what was that derpy soviet thing that wanted to be an independent art movement ?
asciilifeform brb
mircea_popescu: gorn!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57454 @ 0.00052619 = 30.2317 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20766 @ 0.00052637 = 10.9306 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 148790 @ 0.00052967 = 78.8096 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=339544.msg3642934#msg3642934
assbot: BitBet Stole ~$7,000 from me (10 BTC) ... ( http://bit.ly/1p6Dw0X )
nubbins`: from the mouth of hanbot : "Failing to use tx fees is mooching. Using a (notoriously inept) "service" that fails to use tx fees is also mooching."
nubbins`: also from the mouth of hanbot: "You weren't caught in some occult and unknowable coincidence that was out of your hands. You either didn't make sure you understood the basics of using bitcoin, or else you decided not to care. In either case, it is you that will have to adjust (and I do earnestly hope that you do; there are a lot of resources on this very forum, on IRC, and around the web that can help)."
nubbins`: this level of irony borders on vulgarity.
nubbins`: At any rate, this isn't a chastisement. If you fuck up to this degree, you're stuck having fucked up.
danielpbarron: also from that thread >> If a couple of pools were interested in bobbaing up MP's reputation, they could start taking longer to include transactions into blocks if bitbet addresses are involved. Just take care to not wait for way too many blocks, otherwise the pool's reputation get fucked.
mircea_popescu: this, iirc, is in the bbet statement.
nubbins`: pool reputation
nubbins`: danielpbarron: do you agree with hanbot in the linked thread that failing to use tx fees is mooching?
danielpbarron: the two situations aren't really comparable; in the case to which she was referring, the 0-fee transaction was spending an output that only had 162 confirmations, several thousand less than the youngest output spent in the now infamous 'A1'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 101950 @ 0.000529 = 53.9316 BTC [-] {3}
nubbins`: danielpbarron her statement doesn't contain the qualifiers you mention -- by my understanding of english syntax, she's making a blanket statement.
kakobrekla: they also arent comparable in a sense not having full mempools in 2013 and having full mempools in 2016.
nubbins`: she didn't say "failing to use tx fees for an output with only X confirmations is mooching"
nubbins`: this is also true.
nubbins`: mempools in 2013 were ghost towns, and there's hanbot still saying that 0-fee is for idiots
nubbins`: fast-forward to 2016 mempool backlog of enormous size...
kakobrekla: perhaps full and nonfull is not the best word as they cant be really full, just large or small.
nubbins`: ...0-fee is not for idiots?
nubbins`: does not compute
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79097 @ 0.00052788 = 41.7537 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: nubbins`: i need the quote
asciilifeform: nubbins`: for the crate.
asciilifeform: you forgot the actual cost.
nubbins`: ;;calc 150/[ticker --last]
gribble: 0.364999026669
nubbins`: ^
nubbins`: sorry, wait, wrong currency
nubbins`: ;;calc 111.61/[ticker --last]
gribble: 0.27158360911
nubbins`: ^
asciilifeform: ty nubbins`
nubbins`: np
asciilifeform: that must be a refrigerator-sized crate??
nubbins`: just extremely heavy
asciilifeform: ah
nubbins`: and, if you'll take a look at a map of north america, twodogland is very, very far away from major shipping hubs
nubbins`: cripples our online store, let me tell ya
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 66324 @ 0.00052734 = 34.9753 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: makes sense.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 38000 @ 0.00052734 = 20.0389 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25746 @ 0.00052734 = 13.5769 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: <TomServo> be right back, magic: the gathering? << meeting, for my improvement
asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427413 << my brother was once a game programmer, for a co. that has died many years ago, and they had the contract of producing the 'official' mtg client. he had to learn the rules of the game, with much loathing, and play it for year+ straigh, all day, every day, with loathing, possibly more hours than just about anyone alive in total. still can barel☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-03-2016 01:33:09; mircea_popescu: does it exist online or is it actually cards in person thing ?
asciilifeform: y stand to hear it mentioned !
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: client AND server.
asciilifeform: monstrous thing, it was.
BingoBoingo did not think his abbreviation would be construed to have that meaning. Was just mundane Tuesday sober meeting.
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427419 << he bought it to play games, and told the story in the logz, it was lulzy☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-03-2016 01:55:06; nubbins`: til mp owns an ipad
nubbins`: BingoBoingo how was the coffee
nubbins` enjoys thick black coffee that makes his throat feel the way it felt when he smoked cigs
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: A bit watery as is the 13th tradition
nubbins`: phun phact, the first drip coffee machine i ever owned, i was making double-strength pots for the first 6 months until i made a cup for a guest one day
nubbins`: "wtf is this tar?"
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=08-03-2016#1427352 << why would i put in 1 btc to get 0.99 out !?!??!☝︎
assbot: Logged on 08-03-2016 23:34:32; mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> wtf would anyone bet when the dial says '0.99 << it's about even money neh ?
asciilifeform: (if ~win~ !)
asciilifeform: https://bitbet.us/bet/1249/alphago-will-defeat-lee-sedol-overall-in-march << match starts in, iirc, 20 min.
assbot: BitBet - AlphaGo will defeat Lee Sedol overall in March 2016 match :: 80.22 B (54%) on Yes, 68.59 B (46%) on No | closed 3 hours 38 minutes ago ... ( http://bit.ly/1Q5VsDd )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 39355 @ 0.0005258 = 20.6929 BTC [-] {3}
nubbins`: pretty even odds there
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6954 @ 0.00052675 = 3.663 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: https://github.com/bitcoinclassic/bitcoinclassic/pull/138 << prb lulz
assbot: Headfirst mining by gavinandresen · Pull Request #138 · bitcoinclassic/bitcoinclassic · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1TrmqHX )
asciilifeform: how the FUCK does anyone use 'pywallet.'
asciilifeform: 9 times of 10 it gives 'corrupted wallet'
asciilifeform: that trb chokes on, during rescan, and quits.
asciilifeform: so i go and send on another box and guess what, it had previous trb, and tx is high-s.
asciilifeform: nubbins`: txid in pm. but this is sad.
nubbins`: "Transaction rejected by our node. Reason: Non-canonical signature: High S Value"
asciilifeform: they should ALL burn.
nubbins`: maybe try sending again from MPEx funds and then bill it to bitbet?
asciilifeform: the miners, the imbecile komyooonity, the faux nodes, the lot.
nubbins`: X)
asciilifeform: nubbins`: this clearly comes next!111
nubbins`: heeeee
adlai: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFr3K2DORc8 !
assbot: Match 1 - Google DeepMind Challenge Match: Lee Sedol vs AlphaGo - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1p6LBCR )
adlai: huh, google's stream is borked
adlai: seems to work now.
mircea_popescu: !up rrtgzg
mircea_popescu: wait, did the korean lose ?
nubbins`: fun fact, go is called baduk in korea
nubbins` has a nice baduk set
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31780 @ 0.00053049 = 16.859 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla> they also arent comparable in a sense << or in the sense of "case 1 is a derpy kid who tried his derpy time-arbitrage scheme without having the first clue as to what that entails, then whined to be made whole when it blew up" vs "case 2 - someone came into a shop, shot a patron, and now the business is charging the carpet cleaning against on its expense account". hurr durr, "the police should pay for the ca
mircea_popescu: rpet" and herp derp "i'm running a broken matching engine and find things to 'support' my nonsensical rabidism anywhere i look!!1"
asciilifeform: fucktardedly, the talkingheads of alphago are prattling in front of an ~empty~ vertical go board. The game per se is a small corner inset !
asciilifeform: or hm, now switched to sane picture...
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform liveblog for me plox ? if you're watching this ?
asciilifeform: i will be for anoher few min, falling asleep
asciilifeform: adlai had link earlier if someone wants to see.
asciilifeform: the game is ~dozen mov. in.
asciilifeform: machine is playing timidly
asciilifeform: if that is the word.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61600 @ 0.00053073 = 32.693 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: mkay ima pull this on a projector.
mircea_popescu: running outta screens here ;/
mircea_popescu: omfg what is with the talking schmucks.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i could not endure them, cut the audio.
mircea_popescu: i only see the gesturing. is there a proper feed of this ?
asciilifeform: srsly it feels like an american election crud vid
adlai: "it's numbers that i don't really understand. it's just really large numbers"
mircea_popescu: jesus the actual game is on the insert to the right ? wtf is with that country srsly.
mircea_popescu: also why is googlebot playing like a fucking housewife.
mircea_popescu: are we going to see a line from sea to sea before this is done ?
asciilifeform: i said.
mircea_popescu: !s housewife
assbot: 41 results for 'housewife' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=housewife
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10035 @ 0.00053049 = 5.3235 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: so you did omg.
mircea_popescu: i thought i had come up with it on my own! turns out it's from logs ?
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427534 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-03-2016 04:19:40; asciilifeform: machine is playing timidly
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it looks pretty poorly for the bot atm.
asciilifeform: but somebody (adlai?) noted that earlier games were similar
mircea_popescu: ie slow to start ?
mircea_popescu: wins on complexity tail end ?
asciilifeform: the box plays very conservatively and waits for meat player to slip
mircea_popescu: aha
adlai: except it seemed in its games against Fan Hui (EU champion) that it never fully capitalized on slips
mircea_popescu: i'm kinda surprised they didn't brand the table.
adlai: just kept playing the most "consolidating" moves
mircea_popescu: if it makes the 5 line i'm gonna stop watching this.
mircea_popescu: SLITGHTLY better.
mircea_popescu: "who plays like this!"
mircea_popescu: "well... nobody, really."
asciilifeform: i am nearly through
mircea_popescu: also interesting how they tuned the depth search. playing very fast early.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 56050 @ 0.00052784 = 29.5854 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: apparently google thinks early game not so important in go.
mircea_popescu: certainly go with the whole "not really playing, just waiting for human player donations"
asciilifeform: and whats with the derps walking hunched in front of the camera
mircea_popescu: i kinda appreciate the irony of the talk radio derps having chairs but only for display, not to sit in
asciilifeform: and yes it's a flytrap
deedbot-: [Qntra] FBI Agents Investigated For Misconduct In Lavoy Finicum's Murder While Insisting Slaying Was Justified - http://qntra.net/2016/03/fbi-agents-investigated-for-misconduct-in-lavoy-finicums-murder-while-insisting-slaying-was-justified/
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> and whats with the derps walking hunched in front of the camera << It's a common reflex among people who don't grok how cameras work in relation to their body.
asciilifeform: waits, waits.
mircea_popescu: oh my fucking god.
mircea_popescu: enough of this stupid shit.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform alphago can't play, for srsly.
asciilifeform turning in. sznore.
adlai: unfortunately it seems their target audience are those who just channel surfed their way over from tennis
mircea_popescu: why, they added yelps and some young buttocks ?
adlai: it's helpful for people who have never actually played go but the 9p (lighter suit, who does most of the talking) is a little wasted, explaining these most basic things
adlai: "it's really complicated, yeah" instead of ...
adlai: aha. this is the english commentary, and on the other side of the wall is the korean commentary. they probably speak real go terms over there.
mircea_popescu: is michael redmond actually working on the google side ?
adlai: goodnight asciilifeform
adlai: michael redmond is working on the "lee sedol's new haircut" side
mircea_popescu: is there actually any other 9 dan anglo guy ?
adlai: nope
adlai: watts:zen :: redmond:go
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 76700 @ 0.00052611 = 40.3526 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47700 @ 0.00052755 = 25.1641 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: lulz! https://archive.is/090h9
assbot: Ideal Conceal - Concealed Carry, CCW, Best Concealed Carry ... ( http://bit.ly/1U2Uo5x )
BingoBoingo: Looks like a ipNohe
pete_dushenski: the price is right. $395 is ~half iphone
pete_dushenski: 100% more parts are 'made in america' with gun than with phone too
BingoBoingo: I didn't look into it that far.
pete_dushenski: ;;ud bobbaing
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bobbaing | ... Thai · Turkish · Ukrainian · Vietnamese · Help translate! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. There aren't any definitions for bobbaing yet. Can you define it? Define it! Random Word ...
pete_dushenski: like propping, perhaps
BingoBoingo: ;;seen eskimobob
gribble: eskimobob was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 2 years, 35 weeks, 3 days, 22 hours, 32 minutes, and 48 seconds ago: <EskimoBob> no idea how executions are shown on btct
pete_dushenski: eskimobob would've never asked that question about trilema
pete_dushenski: s/asked/had
BingoBoingo: Eh. Maybe I'm just confused. Today was a good day so brain exhausted.
pete_dushenski: l0l
BingoBoingo: Seriously picking up a reciprocating saw was a great move.
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427504 << read as 'headfist mining by gavinandresen', thought this sounded like a brighter, cheekier side of the old coon.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-03-2016 03:46:18; assbot: Headfirst mining by gavinandresen · Pull Request #138 · bitcoinclassic/bitcoinclassic · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1TrmqHX )
pete_dushenski: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427505 << have you tried funky's patch for importprivkey ? has... anyone here tried it that can share feedback on the experience ?☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-03-2016 03:49:24; asciilifeform: how the FUCK does anyone use 'pywallet.'
trinque: pete_dushenski: his patches have never failed me; the wallet itself on the other hand does consistently
trinque: loses track of balance and I have to delete wallet.dat and reimport the key
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67800 @ 0.00052554 = 35.6316 BTC [-] {4}
trinque: !rated funkenstein
assbot: funkenstein is not registered in WoT.
trinque: wat
pete_dushenski: trinque: LOSES TRACK ???!
pete_dushenski: there's an underscore at the end
trinque: !rated funkenstein_
assbot: You have not rated funkenstein_.
trinque: !rate funkenstein 1 wrote a useful patch for importprivkey
assbot: funkenstein is not registered in WoT.
trinque: !rate funkenstein_ 1 wrote a useful patch for importprivkey
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/defddc212c573414
pete_dushenski: !rate petertodd -5 posturer who misrepresents privacy vis-a-vis bitcoin http://archive.is/FuMrf#selection-1137.257-1139.180
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/6ca7f2f24cf863c4
assbot: Bitcoin at crossroads: The Canadians who may have saved virtual currency — or ruined it ... ( http://bit.ly/1XbFx6W )
trinque: !v assbot:trinque.rate.funkenstein_.1:14d8a2667fdf7203f1ae25b4cd8664ffb4360eab136e4ee9eb22f7a4101b9de2
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 1 for funkenstein_ with note: wrote a useful patch for importprivkey
trinque: ;;later tell funkenstein_ hey, regrind your vpatch and I'll sign it
gribble: The operation succeeded.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13981 @ 0.00052539 = 7.3455 BTC [-] {4}
trinque: pete_dushenski: yep, I have seen a negative balance often
trinque: rather than dissect it, I wish to stop using the wallet entirely (as I did before with btcd) and just write a sendrawtxn for shiva
trinque: when I find time.
pete_dushenski: were you importing into wallets that already had a balance ? just trying to understand the boundaries of this phenomenon
trinque: it may be limited to the sendmany RPC; that's what I'm using
trinque: did this to have exact control over what fee is sent
trinque: I also had to lower a constant which didn't seem worth its own vpatch
pete_dushenski: trinque: have you tried 'sendtoaddress' as well ?
trinque: I haven't. doesn't that send change back to some other address which is part of the "account" ?
pete_dushenski: i believe so
trinque: yeah, I want the change coming right back to the deed address, so I use sendmany and explicitly state the change
pete_dushenski: that makes sense
trinque: then the balance goes to -0.0002 (fee + deed spend) so I smell a floating point fuckup
pete_dushenski: and it just stays like that indefinitely, but still allows for further spending ?
trinque: allows no spending
trinque: I must reimport :p
pete_dushenski: omgerd that's lame
trinque: if only it were possible to select the transactions referencing a given address whose outputs are referenced by no other transaction's inputs
trinque: some kind of... query... or something
trinque: no we should have getutxos instead!
trinque: because reasons, and databases never happened
pete_dushenski: in any event, that's some seriously bizarre wallet behaviour
trinque: ayep
trinque: I'm off to bed, gnite!
pete_dushenski: cheers
pete_dushenski: in other turning-shit-into-gold news, http://en.rocketnews24.com/2015/04/15/japanese-craftsmen-strike-again-make-old-beat-up-book-look-as-good-as-new/
assbot: Japanese craftsmen strike again: Make an old, beaten-up book look as good as new | RocketNews24 ... ( http://bit.ly/1XbGPPo )
pete_dushenski: they got me with the mini-iron
mircea_popescu: it's losing, is it
adlai: they've forgotten two stones in the analysis board
adlai: white on J1 and black on J2
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 89038 @ 0.00052999 = 47.1892 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: seems altogether dubious the computer is even 2 dan. just one game, sure, but...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9600 @ 0.00052698 = 5.059 BTC [-] {2}
adlai: more technicaly commentary at https://www.youtube.com/user/USGOWeb/live and the game's moves on a clicky board where you can go back and forth at https://online-go.com/demo/114161
assbot: AlphaGo ?p vs Lee Sedol 9p, 0400 UTC (8pm PST) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1XbIR29 )
assbot: The best place to play go online! ... ( http://bit.ly/1XbIRir )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35200 @ 0.00052698 = 18.5497 BTC [-]
adlai: heh redmond is (more often than not) correctly predicting both players' moves
deedbot-: [Trilema] The King of Comedy - http://trilema.com/2016/the-king-of-comedy/
mircea_popescu: trinque> rather than dissect it, I wish to stop using the wallet entirely (as I did before with btcd) and just write a sendrawtxn for shiva <<< a raw tx manipulator for trb is prolly a very useful item, really.
mircea_popescu: trinque> some kind of... query... or something << heh.
mircea_popescu: and in other goodnight news, http://40.media.tumblr.com/46dad3e52c8433bc64e655fc5532e7fb/tumblr_methweCg4H1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1XbKAVb )
fluffypony: BingoBoingo: we signed it by show of hands - it was just a commitment to encourage tolerance and respect in the ecosystem, and if any of our employees overstep that we will reprimand them
fluffypony: I generally agree with the "don't be a giant douchenozzle" principle, and as long as employees are operating in any capacity representing one of my companies they don't have permission to be a giant douchenozzle on my behalf (what they do in their own time and of their own volition I don't care about)
adlai: first blood! lee sedol captures an alphago stone
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75952 @ 0.00053008 = 40.2606 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 69500 @ 0.00052906 = 36.7697 BTC [-]
adlai: lee sedol resigns. wtf?
fluffypony: I dunno
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 79398 @ 0.00052973 = 42.0595 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 32500 @ 0.00052987 = 17.2208 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44350 @ 0.00052906 = 23.4638 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68050 @ 0.00052906 = 36.0025 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26620 @ 0.00052932 = 14.0905 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75700 @ 0.00052927 = 40.0657 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4180 @ 0.0005291 = 2.2116 BTC [-]
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 1.00000000 BTC on 'No' - Donald Trump will win the 2016 United States Presidential Election - http://bitbet.us/bet/1250/donald-trump-will-win-the-2016-united-states/#b32
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 74370 @ 0.00052907 = 39.3469 BTC [-] {2}
davout: bonjour à tous!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95300 @ 0.00052902 = 50.4156 BTC [-] {2}
punkman: adlai: lee sedol resigns. wtf? << interesting. maybe someone should open another bet? you'd get nice odds betting on "No" now
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7100 @ 0.00052901 = 3.756 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20221 @ 0.00052818 = 10.6803 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28609 @ 0.00052927 = 15.1419 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36150 @ 0.00052927 = 19.1331 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 50566 @ 0.00052634 = 26.6149 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45088 @ 0.00052519 = 23.6798 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13327 @ 0.00052518 = 6.9991 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68877 @ 0.00052746 = 36.3299 BTC [+] {2}
punkman: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427481 I remember the official client was impossibly clunky and annoying when I used it. Must have been an epic quest to cover all the edge cases in the game's rules. "Apprentice" was kinda cool, just gave you a tabletop and you had to manually make all the moves.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-03-2016 03:31:17; asciilifeform: ;;later tell mircea_popescu http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427413 << my brother was once a game programmer, for a co. that has died many years ago, and they had the contract of producing the 'official' mtg client. he had to learn the rules of the game, with much loathing, and play it for year+ straigh, all day, every day, with loathing, possibly more hours than just about anyone alive
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10081 @ 0.00052615 = 5.3041 BTC [-]
punkman: I played online tournaments with Apprentice a lot for a while. Now I wonder what kind of security/crypto the thing implemented, if any.
punkman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apprentice_%28software%29#Backwash oh right
assbot: Apprentice (software) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/222cKoN )
punkman: http://apprentice.nu/ 2.0 apparently lets you play any kind of card game
assbot: Apprentice ... ( http://bit.ly/1px2kjd )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 75909 @ 0.00052637 = 39.9562 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6800 @ 0.00052656 = 3.5806 BTC [+]
danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427602 << it's an auto-completion i set long ago to replace vulgar words; it's from habbo hotel☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-03-2016 05:23:19; pete_dushenski: ;;ud bobbaing
danielpbarron: removed them after that paste; it only ever effected pasted, as I rarely type the words it would replace
jurov: https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-DdIVwSiH2A4/Vs2xJ76mDYI/AAAAAAAJ74o/_axPXhilkrU/w606-h403-no/1.gif
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Sz8fQf )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60150 @ 0.00052574 = 31.6233 BTC [-] {4}
mircea_popescu: adlai> lee sedol resigns. wtf? << are they buying this or wtf.
nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427526 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-03-2016 04:10:08; mircea_popescu: kakobrekla> they also arent comparable in a sense << or in the sense of "case 1 is a derpy kid who tried his derpy time-arbitrage scheme without having the first clue as to what that entails, then whined to be made whole when it blew up" vs "case 2 - someone came into a shop, shot a patron, and now the business is charging the carpet cleaning against on its expense account". hurr durr, "the police sh
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo this prolly shoujld be qntra
nubbins`: kakobrekla it would seem that your continued refusal to kiss MP's ring has finally directed his rage towards you
nubbins`: gonna be weird running a business with a scammer who hates you
mircea_popescu: "I was very surprised," said Lee after the match. "I didn't expect to lose. I didn't think AlphaGo would play the game in such a perfect manner.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i was just about to say
asciilifeform: looks like he's throwing the match ?
mircea_popescu: pretty trippy.
mircea_popescu: DeepMind founder Demis Hassabis expressed "huge respect for Lee Se-dol and his amazing skills," calling the game "hugely exciting" and "very tense." Team lead David Silver said it was an "amazing game of Go that really pushed AlphaGo to its limits."
mircea_popescu: are these people off their fucking rocker ?
mircea_popescu: do they play a different go where they're from ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the folks who work on bots, largely don't play (with any degree of seriousness)
mircea_popescu: "I don’t regret accepting this challenge," said Lee. "I am in shock, I admit that, but what's done is done. I enjoyed this game and look forward to the next. I think I failed on the opening layout so if I do a better job on the opening aspect I think I will be able to increase my probability of winning."
mircea_popescu: holy shit. what !
mircea_popescu: he expects he lost ON THE EARLY GAME ?!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65050 @ 0.00052498 = 34.1499 BTC [-] {5}
nubbins`: more like "case 2: the shop pays a cleaner once a month to clean rugs. random asshole thought the rug cleaners weren't coming so he paid a second rug cleaning service to clean the rugs. then the regular rug cleaners came and cleaned the rug again. then random asshole tries to bill the shop for a needless rug cleaning that he ordered himself"
mircea_popescu: in other korean news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/4be2b49cdae985da75fe2dfa77328553/tumblr_methp93NfS1qlne6uo1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Szb6sh )
nubbins`: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427744 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-03-2016 13:26:24; nubbins`: more like "case 2: the shop pays a cleaner once a month to clean rugs. random asshole thought the rug cleaners weren't coming so he paid a second rug cleaning service to clean the rugs. then the regular rug cleaners came and cleaned the rug again. then random asshole tries to bill the shop for a needless rug cleaning that he ordered himself"
nubbins`: mp's analogies are so muddled that they're not even decipherable
nubbins`: protip: analogies must be analogous.
nubbins` wanders away
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 48900 @ 0.0005245 = 25.6481 BTC [-]
shinohai: not unlike: http://www.ktuu.com/news/nation/person-complains-about-airport-noise-6500-times/38403212
assbot: Person complains about airport noise 6,500 times | National News - KTUU.com Anchorage ... ( http://bit.ly/1SzbOG0 )
mircea_popescu is incredibly fucking glad he never gave in to the temptation as a child, and systematically never regarded go as anything above or beyond parlor trick to entertain oneself with teh nude houri postcoitally, in spite of perhaps reasonable and well reasoned arguments to the contrary.
mircea_popescu: or else i'd be rather pissed off today.
mircea_popescu: punkman but it's the one with the "lands" to get mana to support troops is it ?
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427755 << 'don't love anything - it could die' ?☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-03-2016 13:33:19; *: mircea_popescu is incredibly fucking glad he never gave in to the temptation as a child, and systematically never regarded go as anything above or beyond parlor trick to entertain oneself with teh nude houri postcoitally, in spite of perhaps reasonable and well reasoned arguments to the contrary.
mircea_popescu: no, more like "love only things you're actually sure about"
mircea_popescu: the problem with loving go, like "loving science", like generally all sorts of investments of the self children are forced into, is that they end up importing "the people".
mircea_popescu: for instance - everyone now invested in go has had his life rearranged by lee sedol's rather erratic behaviour.
mircea_popescu: this is a major problem, at least to my eyes. it was just as large, if not nearly as expressible, before the age of bitcoin. by which, to be perfectly specific, i do not mean satoshi crapolade. i mean bitcoinb as in tmsr, and wot and ba and such.
asciilifeform: not so much. but will, when bot is portable and 'griefers' start connecting it to igs, the way chess asshats do
mircea_popescu: which is what, in any proper sense of the term, "bitcoin" and "crypto" even mean. not fucking pgp as seen by the zimmerman that "oh i don't even have the key anymore"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9683 @ 0.0005245 = 5.0787 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform very much, for the obvious reason. we care about the heads of things, not the tail of things.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34017 @ 0.00052437 = 17.8375 BTC [-]
shinohai: Signed into twitter and saw your epic tweet davout :D
mircea_popescu: we're not fucktarded lunacharsky to imagine that "oh, will resist narkopomps in the field". fuck that stupid shit.
asciilifeform: this possibly needs to be expanded ?
mircea_popescu: which part ?
asciilifeform: 1) 'the major problem...' and 2) 'which is what... even mean'
mircea_popescu: aite, let's.
mircea_popescu: 1 should be easy to expand upon. you are familiar with the issues of maintaining software in the beleaguered c world, from what i've seen in the logs. such as you know, no more static linking now. gotta support utf now. (most relevant here : http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=29-02-2016#1418193 )☝︎
assbot: Logged on 29-02-2016 16:46:29; mircea_popescu: this of course means you must support arabic ligature in your kkkapp made specifically to scrawl white supremacist nonsense on virtual toilets in gta4.
mircea_popescu: this problem is not magically limited to software, but universal.
mircea_popescu: people are stuck importing the bleating of moo moos all over the field and in all sorts of capacities, without any sort of modulation at their disposal, even.
mircea_popescu: sure, so you keep the nubbins` out of your house. great. they're going to put some shit on the radio. popculture!!1
mircea_popescu: oh, more radio stations ? great, now the cars are all designed by imbeciles for imbeciles. let's make more houses in autocad! this is how a city looks!
mircea_popescu: whose city ?
mircea_popescu: the list is more or less endless. the problem, more or less felt by everyone (ie, by all persons) and not expressed clearly and rigurously by anyone, because dunno how.
asciilifeform: there are strictly two 'solutions' i know of, 1) get born as mircea_popescu and stay on dirigible as much as possible 2) go perelman and live in the forest with bears and lynx
mircea_popescu: and more importantly, because once expressed the current situation becomes tolerable, or the statal / feminine definition of intelligence is "measure of capacity to adapt to environment [that we designed to suit ourselves]".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i am not discussing solutions, and plox not to mix it in we'll never end.
mircea_popescu: the statement was as to the problem and its expression.
asciilifeform: but yes, generally correct statement.
mircea_popescu: (en passant : solution 3 is readily apparent, and it begins with selectively beating your children - the runts to death ; and then continuing in this manner. and there's plenty more.)
mircea_popescu: now, as to 2 :
asciilifeform: 3 is not a solution if you don't give a fuck about 'next generation' and would rather experience some sanity yourself, or die trying
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23636 @ 0.0005286 = 12.494 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: "bitcoin" in the sense of a collection of (whitepaper by satoshi, 2-3 shitty mutually exclusive prototypes by satoshi, even shittier code in prb) is much like "russia" in the sense of "the kiev kingdom".
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13021 @ 0.00052927 = 6.8916 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: bitcoin, in any proper sense, means the republic, and the wot, and the forum, and so on. and similarly "cryptography" means "a bunch of derps on usenet" much in the same way space flight means chimps with monkeys. yes, the inclination to see inanimate objects fly is the same in both animals.
mircea_popescu: desires are no basis. "cryptography" does not stem from pgp-zimmerman, but from pgp-ba.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform it is deeply satisfying to beat idiots to death. you should try it sometime.
asciilifeform: in exactly same sense as 'gunpowder' means krupp and not chinese fireforks from 1500s
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 68000 @ 0.00053003 = 36.042 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform exactly so.
mircea_popescu: satisfactory ?
asciilifeform: sure.
asciilifeform: i have nfi how to beat idiots though, only ever been beaten to death ~by~ idiots.
asciilifeform bbl, inserting stake
mircea_popescu: mircea_popescu> and more importantly, because once expressed the current situation becomes tolerable << INtolerable, obviously. and in all fields. much like a smoky kitchen wall is tolerable for just as long as you don't see any actual white stuff for contrast. but bring in a new stove, suddenly the wall needs a paintjob too.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46200 @ 0.00052963 = 24.4689 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: whereas before it "didn't".
mircea_popescu: space flight means chimps with monkeys << ie, chimps with rocks.
mircea_popescu: bbl, redoing this wake-up thing, apparently it didn't happen fully.
nubbins`: i like how mp pretends to be ignoring me, but still fumbles through an insult directed my way whenever i give another prod
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 93300 @ 0.00052605 = 49.0805 BTC [-] {6}
nubbins`: cool, he wrote a whole article about me on trilema!
nubbins`: mircea_popescu this infatuation of yours is bordering on obsessive
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18700 @ 0.00052387 = 9.7964 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: if you look at the graph on http://mpex.co/?mpsic=S.MPOE you can actually see the precise moment where MP announced his imaginary mining cartel.
assbot: S.MPOE last 18590@0.00052387 ... ( http://bit.ly/1USv0yT )
nubbins`: investors apparently took the pronouncement as a sign of things... not being quite well.
thestringpuller: yea. a lot of selling pressure recently. i think node blockchain survived I'll see when it tried to load the index tonight. definitely going to back this thing up daily...
danielpbarron: uncertainty over bitcoin itself
thestringpuller: danielpbarron: i expected your blog to be all txtfiles lol
thestringpuller: you actually inspired the theme for my blog
danielpbarron: i didn't really design that. was just the default theme for the latest wordpress
thestringpuller: i was talking about your original website. the <pre> tags and ascii text and links
thestringpuller: and the dpb ascii art
danielpbarron: ah
danielpbarron: i seriously considered the all txt files option, but figured it wouldn't work well with allowing comments
danielpbarron: and now that i've got wordpress running, I kinda like how easy it is to draft stuff
thestringpuller: you can probably make the theme look like files tho
danielpbarron: yeah there's defo changes to be made
mircea_popescu: hmm, anyone recall the place in the log of that discussion of the nth army going through the same field, and seeing the same bridgeheads and valleys and whatnot ?
mircea_popescu: was re the resistance of the medium etc
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11844 @ 0.00052548 = 6.2238 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: well this is sad, i can't fucking find it, half hour later.
mircea_popescu: i suppose before i'm dead my life will consist of mostly wasting my time trying to find errant bits of log.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11150 @ 0.00052548 = 5.8591 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55000 @ 0.00052384 = 28.8112 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30000 @ 0.00052317 = 15.6951 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16144 @ 0.00052649 = 8.4997 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the sad part is not even the 'destruction of go' -- but the new lease on life for the vc circus
asciilifeform: consider, the bot was not the product of the 'knowing wtf you're doing' school of ai (which is long dead)
asciilifeform: but the other kind.
thestringpuller: i have a feeling same was said when deep blue beat kasparov...
asciilifeform: it was.
asciilifeform: and was just as true
thestringpuller: you could have sentient bot talk to you and you'd still slap it around I suppose
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: there were once two schools of thought re: how to do 'ai'
asciilifeform: one, typified by d. lenat's proggy 'eurisko' (see logs, i posted his s333kr1t paperz once) was of the sane sort
asciilifeform: i.e. attempting to get to the bottom of what thought process ~is~, in a meaningful way
asciilifeform: other - brute force, or sometimes 'meat emulation'
asciilifeform: typified by 'connectionism' (nn) and 'machine learning' (elaborate application of statistical heuristics)
asciilifeform: but neither admitting any element of euriskoism
asciilifeform: so you get a box that sorta, most of the time, does X, but 1) sometimes fails spectacularly for no apparent reason, as if 'alive' and 2) teaches the builder ~absolutely nothing~ useful about X
asciilifeform: e.g., http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=26-01-2016#1386298 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 26-01-2016 17:20:06; ascii_butugychag: (there was a spiffy talk at shmoo, which mentioned how nn used in image recognition usually imprints on what - to a human - would be an entirely accidental cluster of pixels, and if you flip'em, it will recognize an obvious, e.g,. cat, as a refrigerator, etc)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35800 @ 0.00052952 = 18.9568 BTC [+] {3}
asciilifeform: i will call this - ersatz cognition
thestringpuller: I really don't think you can actually decipher the nature of 'real thought' on current hardware. AI will always be an emulation of the authentic thing.
asciilifeform: because, to heathens, it is often indistinguishable from the real thing, like the ersatz foods, plastic cars, and other detritus of modernity
asciilifeform: i've been interested in ~actual~ machine cognition for pretty much my whole adult life
thestringpuller: until you create some kinda hardware mechanism that is true to "real thing"
asciilifeform: because, to heathens, it is often indistinguishable from the real thing, like the ersatz foods, plastic cars, and other detritus of modernity
asciilifeform: i've been interested in ~actual~ machine cognition for pretty much my whole adult life
asciilifeform: but as far as i'm concerned, it began and ended with eurisko.
thestringpuller: the most interesting developments won't exist until neuro-interfaces exist.
thestringpuller: because I doubt current humans can make computer better than brain.
asciilifeform: is bulldozer better than man with shovel ?
asciilifeform: damn what is happening to my terminal
asciilifeform: brb
thestringpuller: bulldozer still requires man.
thestringpuller: shovel requires man.
asciilifeform: l0l looks like i transmitted everything twice
asciilifeform: apologies for the l0g n0i53.
nubbins`: reminiscent of the bank of FPGAs learning to distinguish audio tones
asciilifeform: nubbins`: aha
asciilifeform: which quit working when moved to another room.
nubbins`: leading to gibberish circuits, relying on physical imperfections in resonance of container, etc
nubbins`: yes
nubbins`: this is a terrifyingly accurate representation of meat-based life, i fear
nubbins`: consciousness as well
nubbins`: e.g. take twin brains, copy "save-state" from one to other; madness, frothing mouth.
trinque: I have a friend in prosthetics who once explained at length to me that the brain doesn't begin knowing how to see, smell, etc
trinque: it learns how to over time
trinque: this leads to being able to wire visual inputs into the tongue, and having the brain eventually learn to make a picture from this
asciilifeform: trinque: do you recall the article where some fella implanted a small magnet into his finger ?
trinque: I do, yep
trinque: the above doesn't seem to bode well for having a model of cognition any time soon
trinque: as it might be drastically different from noggin to noggin
trinque: it also seems to suggest that mind-amplification is a much nearer goal than AI, as the brain's own ability to handle new inputs can be leaned upon
asciilifeform: (for those who do not - eventually it became 'a sense', and when the thing fell out he was quite distressed and felt blinded)
asciilifeform: trinque: exactly not, though
asciilifeform: because all of the idiot grind ai teaches us NOTHING about thought.
trinque: this is what I'm aiming to say, that my friend has said he knows very little about *how* the brain forms a picture, only that it will (waves hands) learn to when given input representing one
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20850 @ 0.00052975 = 11.0453 BTC [+] {4}
asciilifeform: this puts us at approx. ancient greek state of the art.
asciilifeform: 'what, pray tell, was the in-between for ?' (tm) (r)
asciilifeform: see also old thread on otp, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=03-02-2016#1394784 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 03-02-2016 01:31:16; mircea_popescu: "if thge best you can come up with is otp - give me back the cpu and take this mechanical gearbox instead"
mircea_popescu: !up farfi
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> but the other kind. << im actually writing about this.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: neato.
mircea_popescu: do you happen to remember the piece i'm looking for ?
asciilifeform: which
mircea_popescu: the one with the army which, going through a field, encounters the same problems all the previous ones did.
mircea_popescu: and so a community of sorts emerges.
mircea_popescu: trinque> it also seems to suggest that mind-amplification << mind amplification is really an everyday thing. that's what b-a does, and before b-a that's what the internet tried, and before that books, and so on.
mircea_popescu: fucking dogs do it, some of them at least, as per that experiment discussed in the logs.
asciilifeform: aha!
asciilifeform: !s from:mircea_popescu dog truffle
assbot: 0 results for 'from:mircea_popescu dog truffle' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Amircea_popescu+dog+truffle
asciilifeform: !s from:mircea_popescu point truffle
assbot: 0 results for 'from:mircea_popescu point truffle' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=from%3Amircea_popescu+point+truffle
asciilifeform: hm
mircea_popescu: ;/
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo this prolly shoujld be qntra << If someone know something at all about Go, I know jack shit.
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo it sorta ended a larger piece, ima trilema.
asciilifeform: hm was assbot dead that day
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> looks like he's throwing the match ? << Possibru? COunting on people not knowing Go?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: actually it was in a pm convo
mircea_popescu: the dog ?
asciilifeform: yes.
mircea_popescu: o.O
asciilifeform: i can post the fragment if you like.
mircea_popescu: how about the other one! that's what i really am after.
mircea_popescu: and sure, why not.
asciilifeform: and hm, i think it actually got trilemaized
asciilifeform: http://trilema.com/2014/the-gui-the-twerk-and-the-most-valuable-resource
assbot: The GUI, the twerk and the most valuable resource on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1QDMaNV )
asciilifeform: there it is.
mircea_popescu: o.O
mircea_popescu: so it... wasn't pm ? :D
asciilifeform: was.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12508 @ 0.00052649 = 6.5853 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: originally
mircea_popescu: check out alfie leaking privkey bits.
asciilifeform: l0l
mircea_popescu: mwhahaha
asciilifeform: hey the p in pm is fictional
asciilifeform: what key.
mircea_popescu: aok
BingoBoingo: <danielpbarron> i didn't really design that. was just the default theme for the latest wordpress << Fing and play with toolbox, and by play with I mean delete shit and make it more minimalist. Do leave the screenreader stuff in and if possibru improve it.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.00052649 = 5.1596 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo it sorta ended a larger piece, ima trilema. << cool
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13200 @ 0.00053024 = 6.9992 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=21-02-2016#1412496 << might be the thread you wanted ?☝︎
assbot: Logged on 21-02-2016 21:20:12; mircea_popescu: phf my mental model is essentially "awk without regexp"
mircea_popescu looks
mircea_popescu: nah. much older, was in a tail end of a discussion of art iirc
mircea_popescu: literature, soemthing.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4800 @ 0.00052885 = 2.5385 BTC [-]
deedbot-: [Trilema] Give computers the vote. They're cheaper than women, even! - http://trilema.com/2016/give-computers-the-vote-theyre-cheaper-than-women-even/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3318 @ 0.00052776 = 1.7511 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> but the other kind. << there's a deep reason the bayesian religion is widely appealing.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the root of the matter is an elementary thing. google et al are deeply disinterested in cognition etc. but are paid for specific thing - solving the problem of usg needing an automated gestapo.
asciilifeform: for this, the 'artificial A-student' suffices.
asciilifeform: and is in fact just what the doctor ordered.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> i will call this - ersatz cognition << the problem being that, much like in the case of blub, ersatz cognition can only be recognized by people not blessed with it.
mircea_popescu: actually, my favourite quote for that,
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2011/caviarul-si-fata/#selection-21.0-29.341
assbot: Caviarul si fata on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1TLJTnM )
mircea_popescu: in translation :
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: perhaps different outlook, knowing you can't emulate human mind on current machines. perhaps the only way to "true AI" is some cyborg thing of a brain plugged up to machinery...
mircea_popescu: a young consumation girl [ie, whore], otherwise clever and vivacious, receiving some caviar aside the mug of vodka, proceeded to explain some matters t ome.
mircea_popescu: specifically, that these black roe, large and soft as were put before her, are evidently inferior to true black roe, as she always gets at [we're skipping this, lest we shame the third party]. which are small, much, much smaller, needle sized, and tough, so you can crack them in your teeth.
mircea_popescu: working by analogy with the fruits in the marketr stall, or perhaps even herself and her sisters, her ladyship figured such : what is good is tough and rocky, what's overripe, soft, unrestrained in the belts of rubbery skin is obviously iunferior.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: pointedly an example of the ~current~ crud
mircea_popescu: let the beluga take its unfortunate form emergently to mr doctor X, so as to receive bookend implants.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: the current crud exists just as alchemy once existed, you expect alchemist to understand modern chemistry?
mircea_popescu: anyway - i welcome the antivirus-based new gestapo. it will doubtlessly work as well as the new us model army, seen at the muchly trumpeted, quickly forgotten tikrit offensive.
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller who in your view made the switch between the two ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3600 @ 0.00052776 = 1.8999 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: i would defer that question to PeterL
thestringpuller: since not being a chemist that is a blurry line
mircea_popescu: traditionally, lavoisier, i suppose. but mind that many people understood what you call chemistry long before the 1600s, and similarly an interest in alchemy survived long after.
asciilifeform: as recently as edison.
mircea_popescu: hey, i still read it.
asciilifeform: i meant, live interest, vs archaeological.
mircea_popescu: i thought it revolved around understanding.
asciilifeform: or does mircea_popescu read it to learn how to actually produce philosopher's stone.
mircea_popescu: no, but i daresay i understand at least parts of it.
asciilifeform: it certainly added up to a coherent whole, at least once you cut away the obscurantist armour.
thestringpuller: well i was more under the assumption philosopher stone of AI (a sorta Star Trek TNG "Data") doesn't currently have a means of existing
mircea_popescu: speaking of ancient arcana - who even noticed that the soviet ideas of central planning are a direct calc copy off the way turkish empire ran ?
mircea_popescu: dandians, duzians, twas a thing.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not really, no. turks, at least at their height, quite solidly had 'fuhrerprinzip' - all officials, incl. vizir, personal slaves of sultan.
mircea_popescu: as theory. this theory had lain fallow since suleyman.
mircea_popescu: and for that matter - all soviets, personal slaves of stalin.
asciilifeform: as far as i can tell, turks carried on a healthy, 'asiatic' sort of unbureaucratized barbarism for quite some time - witness how well they got on, for how long, without banks, for instance
mircea_popescu: and since i mentioned the armenian genocide - the experience of erryday life among this lower class in the very wot-driven turkish empire quite exactly maps what i expect to be the lot of the keyless in the not-so-distant future.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform twas deeply bureaucratic. the ENGLISH thought them overbureaucratized.
asciilifeform: this in 19th c. no?
asciilifeform: after they hastily copied euros
asciilifeform: (venetian bank, french army, etc)
mircea_popescu: not so hastily, no. they only started copying under the last sultan, after russian defeat.
mircea_popescu: but yes, 18.5-19
asciilifeform: unrelatedly, i read http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427949 and wondering about footnote x. despite standing to lose some coin, i do not see how the bet ought to be seen as a sham☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-03-2016 17:42:39; deedbot-: [Trilema] Give computers the vote. They're cheaper than women, even! - http://trilema.com/2016/give-computers-the-vote-theyre-cheaper-than-women-even/
asciilifeform: we knew this is how the machine plays, much earlier
mircea_popescu: so we did.
asciilifeform: in fact, every go robot made to date, at least among the more successful ones, plays like this.
asciilifeform: starting from late '80s
mircea_popescu: we didn't know that "surrender" would be an acceptable end.
asciilifeform: actually most pro games end in surrender
asciilifeform: almost all do.
mircea_popescu: how does it work, hassabis goes "hey, quit already, we're running out of tape" ?
mircea_popescu: not with a machine.
asciilifeform: srsly examine any db of pro games
mircea_popescu: NONO. sudden failure for no reason.
mircea_popescu: you want to maximize its exposure. no conceivable reason to ever quit.
asciilifeform: i did not say, ~this~ kind of surrender
mircea_popescu: well then.
asciilifeform sees where mircea_popescu is going.
asciilifeform: because i've already been there, when woke up today and saw the game.
mircea_popescu: the argument is there. not particularly strong. also note that the bar for bitbet arguments is crazy low. we've seen absurdities argued the likes of which would scare a highschool teacher.
mircea_popescu: but none of this changes that... the argument IS there.
asciilifeform: sure.
asciilifeform: also if lee sedol is not thinking about the 'maximize exposure' thing right now, he'd have to be a fool
asciilifeform: (or bought)
mircea_popescu: fact is, fraud is traditionally inseparable from this sort of central event
asciilifeform: but the 'end by resign' thing is taught to the pros in childhood, flashed into their bios, so to speak
mircea_popescu: think fixed world series.
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: what else is "flashed in bios" ? don't whip the wife ? bow before government ?
asciilifeform: only pointing out that the man obviously failed to depart from his 'firmware'
asciilifeform: though it was abundantly appropriate
asciilifeform: somewhat relatedly, my understanding of the history of go, is that match fraud was historically a rarity
mircea_popescu: yes, and peasants playing also never heard of.
asciilifeform: because, partly, the game attracted the very highest caliber of human.
asciilifeform: but also that a thrown match was almost impossible to conceal from expert eye
asciilifeform: to convincingly throw, would take at least the same skill as to win.
asciilifeform: and the incentives were such that the players would rather win.
mircea_popescu: it is/was a wot game.
asciilifeform: aha!
asciilifeform: that it was.
mircea_popescu: hence, http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=09-03-2016#1427759 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-03-2016 13:38:44; assbot: Logged on 09-03-2016 13:33:19; *: mircea_popescu is incredibly fucking glad he never gave in to the temptation as a child, and systematically never regarded go as anything above or beyond parlor trick to entertain oneself with teh nude houri postcoitally, in spite of perhaps reasonable and well reasoned arguments to the contrary.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7682 @ 0.00052776 = 4.0543 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: by the same token mircea_popescu can be glad that he never got seriously into, e.g., programming
asciilifeform: but at some point one has to do ~something~
mircea_popescu: i am.
mircea_popescu: hey, i'm admitting it as a sin, not proposing it as a moral.
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: go was the last 'noble game'
asciilifeform: which is why it was such an irresistible target for the mediocrity bulldozer.
mircea_popescu: imo - go-open-to-public was an unwelcome bastion of "impaciuitorism" in the way of the republic.
asciilifeform: impaciuitorism ?
mircea_popescu: no, we can't have peace with the bourgeois still around. burn them.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2650 @ 0.00052776 = 1.3986 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform romanian version of the russian word for "dealing with the capitalists"
asciilifeform: notice, it had to die ~in this specific way~, that is, by ~unthinking ai~
asciilifeform: as per earlier thread.
asciilifeform: likewise chess
mircea_popescu: aha.
asciilifeform: no industrial giant remotely contemplated funding the other kind of chess (and there ~was~ work, as recently as early '80s)
asciilifeform: elsewhere this process is known as 'deskilling'
asciilifeform: and is discussed in some depth on my www.
mircea_popescu: the important point being, that there must be no room, no place and no hope for intelligent men in the society of subhumans.
mircea_popescu: the sooner they get the memo, the better.
asciilifeform: i got the memo when i was 5 y.o.
asciilifeform: fat lotta good it did.
mircea_popescu: that's step 2.
mircea_popescu: anyway, bbl.
danielpbarron: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427870 << i just woke from a nap when reading this, and convinced myself that ~I~ had accidentally skipped up a couple lines and read it again☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-03-2016 16:28:24; asciilifeform: l0l looks like i transmitted everything twice
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> actually most pro games end in surrender << Seems to be one of the few similarities with ches
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3700 @ 0.00052885 = 1.9567 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11100 @ 0.00053008 = 5.8839 BTC [+] {2}
thestringpuller: but then again if aliens come down and deliver us philosopher stone that t
thestringpuller: oops
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6500 @ 0.00052776 = 3.4304 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27500 @ 0.00053026 = 14.5822 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5700 @ 0.00053039 = 3.0232 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: http://www.anandpraka.sh/2016/03/how-i-could-have-hacked-your-facebook.html << lulz
assbot: Anand Prakash : [Responsible disclosure] How I could have hacked all Facebook accounts ... ( http://bit.ly/1LRwXJU )
asciilifeform: ^ to continue the 'no place to sell 0days' thread
adlai actually wanted to continue the 'philosopher stone' thread!
adlai wonders whether the low price tag of responsible disclosure stems from the glass cannon nature of indiscretionary usage
shinohai: http://www.iflscience.org/missing-scientist-found-hiding-in-secret-lsd-drug-lab/
assbot: Missing Scientist Found Hiding in Drug Lab | IFLScience.org ... ( http://bit.ly/223nOCi )
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1428075 << it stems from no-alternative.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-03-2016 19:25:33; *: adlai wonders whether the low price tag of responsible disclosure stems from the glass cannon nature of indiscretionary usage
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1428076 << cheap hoax☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-03-2016 19:33:02; shinohai: http://www.iflscience.org/missing-scientist-found-hiding-in-secret-lsd-drug-lab/
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3800 @ 0.00052624 = 1.9997 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5100 @ 0.00052544 = 2.6797 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: https://malicioussha1.github.io
assbot: Malicious SHA-1 ... ( http://bit.ly/223sKab )
asciilifeform: ^ lulzy oldie
asciilifeform: 'Did NSA use this trick when creating SHA-1 in 1995? We believe this is unlikely, for
asciilifeform: ... The original SHA-1 constants are “nothing-up-my-sleeve-numbers“, derived from the binary representation of the square roots of 2, 3, 5 and 10 ...
asciilifeform: Just before SHA-1, NSA designed SHA-0, for which weaknesses were quickly identified by the research community ... ... [claptrap snipped]'
asciilifeform: !s so room would be empty
assbot: 1 results for 'so room would be empty' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=so+room+would+be+empty
asciilifeform: (summary: article elementarily demonstrates that a hash of the sha1 type could be designed with trapdoor. and then argues nonsensically that we 'know' there could have been none such.)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6028 @ 0.00052784 = 3.1818 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9450 @ 0.00052929 = 5.0018 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12500 @ 0.00052317 = 6.5396 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9550 @ 0.00052317 = 4.9963 BTC [-] {2}
thestringpuller: #occupybitcoin
asciilifeform: !s http://nsa.unaligned.org
assbot: NSA :: Overview ... ( http://bit.ly/1W9KpJH )
assbot: 0 results for 'http://nsa.unaligned.org' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=http%3A%2F%2Fnsa.unaligned.org
asciilifeform: ^ spiffy.
asciilifeform: 'NSA@home is a fast FPGA-based SHA-1 and MD5 bruteforce cracker. It is capable of searching the full 8-character keyspace (from a 64-character set) in about a day in the current configuration for 800 hashes concurrently, using about 240W of power. This performance is equivalent to over 1500 Athlon FX-60 CPUs, which would take about 250kW.'
asciilifeform: 'The cracker is built out of surplus Grass Valley HD video transform boards, scrapped by GV because of defects. A useful tool was developed to assist the board reverse-engineering effort.'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14800 @ 0.00052317 = 7.7429 BTC [-]
thestringpuller: sounds a lot like proto-mining 2013
thestringpuller: i guess that's all a miner is really...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12250 @ 0.00052317 = 6.4088 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36500 @ 0.00052295 = 19.0877 BTC [-] {4}
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1428097 << waiwut?!☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-03-2016 20:47:52; thestringpuller: #occupybitcoin
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1428097 << waiwut?!☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-03-2016 20:47:52; thestringpuller: #occupybitcoin
asciilifeform: ok now i really gotta check my terminal
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5651 @ 0.00052284 = 2.9546 BTC [-] {2}
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: a lot of the snoooooore-fest article coming from likes of armstrong and company, sound like stuff people would rant at occupy wallstreet
thestringpuller: saw how much good that did
danielpbarron: to whomever was running a brute force on my wordpress login, yeah I noticed. time to find a new IP
thestringpuller: you don't put wp-admin behind firewall?
thestringpuller: really should put wp-admin behind firewall
asciilifeform: who's armstrong?
thestringpuller: danielpbarron: http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/nginx-block-url-access-all-except-one-ip-address/ << for nginx; http://www.inmotionhosting.com/support/website/wordpress/lock-down-wordpress-admin-login-with-htaccess << for apache with .htaccess
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: brian armstrong
asciilifeform: !s armstrong
assbot: 18 results for 'armstrong' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=armstrong
asciilifeform: snore.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8249 @ 0.00052284 = 4.3129 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2016/the-necessary-prerequisite-for-any-change-to-the-bitcoin-protocol/#comment-116750 << people come to trilema, seo their link. trilema gives them a gift in exchange.
assbot: The necessary prerequisite for any change to the Bitcoin protocol on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1UTpmg4 )
mircea_popescu: 18* adlai wonders whether the low price tag of responsible disclosure stems from the glass cannon nature << doesn't seem glass cannon-y at all, with any patience you could have hijacked some "notable" accounts made them do some funky shit.
mircea_popescu: no, guy is just some derp trying to find a place in usg, as opposed to b-a or isis or whatever. that's all.
mircea_popescu: if he was from 4chan, they'd be all voting for m00t.
mircea_popescu: "The Police recovered over $500,000 worth of lab equipment stolen from the University, along with 3 hand guns, an assault rifle, 50 years’ worth of military grade rations and twelve 55 gallon barrels (including three almost empty barrels) of what DEA labs have identified as pure liquid Lysergic acid diethylamide, a powerful hallucinogenic drug more commonly known as the street name LSD or Acid."
mircea_popescu: is this a hoax ?!
asciilifeform: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1428130 << which☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-03-2016 21:51:30; mircea_popescu: no, guy is just some derp trying to find a place in usg, as opposed to b-a or isis or whatever. that's all.
mircea_popescu: "It is not yet known if or when Dr. Winston will be convicted of any crime." indicted, convicted, WHAT THE HELL'S THE DIFFERENCE
deedbot-: [Qntra] "Bitcoin Group" Fiat Mining IPO Withdrawn - http://qntra.net/2016/03/bitcoin-group-fiat-mining-ipo-withdrawn/
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform quote re scientist with the army rations and lsd barrels.
mircea_popescu: srsly, 3 TONS of the stuff ?
mircea_popescu: http://www.iflscience.org/solar-panels-largely-responsible-for-el-nino-says-science/ << same rag.
assbot: Solar Panels Largely Responsible for El Nino Says Science | IFLScience ... ( http://bit.ly/1W9WQVU )
mircea_popescu: nice tho, had me wtf'd for a little.
asciilifeform: consider volume occupied by '50 yrs of rations'
asciilifeform: srsly
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron> to whomever was running a brute force on my wordpress login << there's thousands of boxes working this 24/7. "seo industry".
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform basement could be arbitrarily large because of the nuclear shelter fashion.
asciilifeform: or how many hectares of wheat need to be ergoted to make so much as ONE 'drum of pure lsd'
mircea_popescu: now, THAT.
mircea_popescu: besides, what the fuck he drank three ?
mircea_popescu: it's not fucking aspirin.
asciilifeform: milligram is 'elephant's dose.'
asciilifeform: whole thing is idiotic.
mircea_popescu: but in other "military relations in basements" news, http://41.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7frgkSwrS1rycxrdo1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1UTrGUk )
asciilifeform: it is likely that no more than a dozen litres of lsd ever EXISTED on planet3.
mats: a pound of the stuff in a local water source sounds like an interesting experiment
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7200 @ 0.00052284 = 3.7644 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform is correct, lsd is psychoactive in micrgram dosage. which means that yes, go to coca-cola plant, come out a liter of lsd lighter, enjoy fireworks in a billion people.
BingoBoingo: mats: But would it survive that kind of dilution in water?
asciilifeform: mats: degrades QUICKLY in water.
mats: more so than in sunlight?
mircea_popescu: didn't they drink it in cool-aid w/e ?
mircea_popescu eschewed water plant because chlorine.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: bottle at room temp for few hrs != city water tower (which has cl, etc)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10488 @ 0.00052484 = 5.5045 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: aha!
BingoBoingo: In sad news http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20160309192510
assbot: The VAX platform is no more ... ( http://bit.ly/1W9Z6MX )
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: they have these bar stools at work for the high tables. the obese people will sit on them and so the pneumatic pump goes out. so now when a normal person sits on it, it slowly sinks down. everytime it happens I'm like "yup an obese person sat on this"
BingoBoingo: lol
BingoBoingo: Can't have nice things
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: see also: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=02-11-2015#1314087 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 02-11-2015 18:53:02; ascii_field: http://i.imgur.com/zTyfHGs.jpg
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lsd is ~very~ unstable unless dry crystal kept in the dark. hence why it did not work out as chemical weapon.
mircea_popescu: yeah yeah ok.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427880 << ftr, this restatement of the plasticity propriety oif the cnc is mostly made of your tradesman's self-flattery (all civilisation is predicated on tramway, sez conductor. neh, on beer, sez publican).☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-03-2016 16:31:18; trinque: I have a friend in prosthetics who once explained at length to me that the brain doesn't begin knowing how to see, smell, etc
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427882 << hey, and the brain learns to make a food out of hamburgers eventually.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-03-2016 16:31:41; trinque: this leads to being able to wire visual inputs into the tongue, and having the brain eventually learn to make a picture from this
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=09-03-2016#1427894 << fucking an' partying.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 09-03-2016 16:38:47; asciilifeform: 'what, pray tell, was the in-between for ?' (tm) (r)
asciilifeform: but the 'brain learns' thing is pure nonexplanatory obscuratronium.
mircea_popescu: void learns(things);
asciilifeform: aha.
asciilifeform: !s natural stupidity
assbot: 1 results for 'natural stupidity' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=natural+stupidity
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's very little to be explained, so far. "the brain consists of a varying set of individual cells, in the billions, which have a number of internal states that have not yet been enumerated either in the collective or reliably individual cases, which connect to other cells through a process they apparently to some degree control but is not otherwise understood, forming patters that are not meaningfully
mircea_popescu: described to any degree and moving electric impulses back and forth".
mircea_popescu: what 'explain' ? there aren't the terms in which the explanation would be made.
asciilifeform: consider airplane
asciilifeform: nobody's built a mechanical bird (ornithopter) worth half a shit yet.
mircea_popescu: the general complexity of the cell is perhaps the chief lie of popular conception of biology. "oh yeah, nucleus, cytoplasm, yeah i recall". you recall my left foot. golgi apparatus. a whole set of vacuoles. the nucleus has a membrane in layers. there's dozens of different items in there we don't even fully enumerate - and your understanding isn't good enough to stand for the mithocondria, which, incidentally, also has
mircea_popescu: a nucleus.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform was not a question of building anything, but of understanding, neh ?
asciilifeform: (none, e.g., can find air currents & glide)
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: but do we understand flight?
mircea_popescu: i would say so, yes.
asciilifeform: i would say that we ~understand~ a thing if we can fully separate the ~accidental~ complexity of it from the ~essential~.
asciilifeform: the feathers, if you will, from the boeing.
asciilifeform: computer, as i like to point out, very much is a boeing with feathers.
mircea_popescu: so you're hanging your argument on turbulent flow ?
mircea_popescu: fine, have it. we still understand flight to a larger degree than cognition.
mircea_popescu: i can formulate the flight equivalent of iq ; you can not formulate the cognitive equivalent of energy.
asciilifeform: that was actually my point
asciilifeform: we do.
asciilifeform: and in the latter case - don't
mircea_popescu: heck, the iq nonsense EVEN EXISTS because people get antsy and prefer to pretend.
mircea_popescu: entirely meaningless otherwise.
trinque: +asciilifeform | but the 'brain learns' thing is pure nonexplanatory obscuratronium. << what, you thought I was satisfied with "learns" as a complete description?
trinque: point was the exact opposite
mircea_popescu: trinque you familiar with the pigeon rewiring experiments ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'iq' WORKS for identifying stupidity
asciilifeform: which is what it was built for.
mircea_popescu: skinner showed most subhumans not so different from pigeons.
asciilifeform: aha
trinque: we've been and will be bolting things to ourselves for far longer than understanding how we're capable of using them
trinque: mircea_popescu: I'm not
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform not even that reliably. savant still stupid. it DID work to destroy any usable (by us) notion of stupidity, as far as the harpy wailchorus is concerned.
mircea_popescu: that's not working.
asciilifeform: calendar-savant IS stupid.
mircea_popescu: high iq.
asciilifeform: like trained dog.
asciilifeform: nope.
mircea_popescu: it happens, what.
asciilifeform: it isn't a breakage. iq does not test the 'rng' (eysenck's 'psychoticism')
asciilifeform: !s eysenck
assbot: 10 results for 'eysenck' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=eysenck
asciilifeform: i once spent several months trying to devise a machine-generatable test that ~could~.
asciilifeform: got absolutely nowhere.
asciilifeform: incidentally, do you have any idea how idiotically SECRETIVE the community is ?
asciilifeform: (of test-makers)
asciilifeform: it is in some respects easier to find nsa material
asciilifeform: than, e.g., 'raven's progressive matrices'
asciilifeform: ~because~ : computer - NEVER HAPPEND there.
mircea_popescu: yeah. pseudoscience does that.
mircea_popescu: anyway, while we differ on what we color iq-ism in, or what you eventually expect it to do, i don't think there's actual disagreement as to what it does.
asciilifeform: most lysenkos spam aggressively tho
asciilifeform: not these.
mircea_popescu: yeah, there's that.
asciilifeform: thing is, they actually do a job.
mircea_popescu: useful in the 60s or w/e, "find the gomer pyles before gunnery sgt gets shot".
asciilifeform: a difficult, thankless job, that is becoming usg-illegal, for decades , slowly
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: thing is, social media does a better job of this.
asciilifeform: but also 'find the children worth rescuing from the shitpits'
mircea_popescu: never.
mircea_popescu: no child was ever rescued.
mircea_popescu: "find the children that, on their own strength, may see through the idiocy and give them really heavy stones to lift so they don't".
asciilifeform: yeah yeah nietzsche whatever
mircea_popescu: it only ever worked like that "fairness" thing, what was the short story ?
asciilifeform: !s harrison bergeron
assbot: 4 results for 'harrison bergeron' : http://s.b-a.link/?q=harrison+bergeron
mircea_popescu: there you go.
mircea_popescu: ALSO for the job of rescuing children, "social media", or rather, the social media facade of b-a works better than iq.
asciilifeform: now this, yes!
asciilifeform: but this latter thing exists in the way nuke power existed in '44.
mircea_popescu: so far.
asciilifeform: yes, a small reactor...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8100 @ 0.0005266 = 4.2655 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: amuysingly, trilema's most read item this month is http://trilema.com/2013/and-gavin-moves-on-to-the-dark-side-the-bitcoin-project-is-officially-hijacked/
assbot: And Gavin moves on to the dark side. The Bitcoin project is officially hijacked on Trilema - A blog by Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1MvB8Kx )
asciilifeform: l0l!
mircea_popescu: i wonder how many wwwtrons the same size actually have this phenomena, where 3 yo article tops the charts. happens to me rather frequently.
mircea_popescu: it's actually rare that something penned the current month is the top read item.
asciilifeform: mine. for YEARS.
mircea_popescu: yeah but trilema is larger than verge for traffic, not quite the same.
mircea_popescu: !up tcrypt
asciilifeform: see, e.g., http://www.loper-os.org/?p=42#comments
assbot: Loper OS » Thumbs Down for Clojure ... ( http://bit.ly/1P0s63V )
asciilifeform: immortal thread.
mircea_popescu goes to read
asciilifeform: old crud
asciilifeform: still drawing in livid idiots
asciilifeform: '09 - present.
mircea_popescu: says 2012 neh ?
mircea_popescu: look, yesterday!
asciilifeform: 2009.
asciilifeform: most recent comment- a few days ago.
asciilifeform: (might have to click page to see it)
mircea_popescu: <mircea_popescu> look, yesterday! <
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=42&cpage=2#comment-17596 << lulzy
assbot: Loper OS » Thumbs Down for Clojure ... ( http://bit.ly/1P0sz64 )
mircea_popescu: anyway, my takeaway from that is that 2012 alfie does not yet know how to go for the jugular of idiots. just identifies things to be angry about, gets angry about them and flails.
asciilifeform: my www gets surprising traffic, naturally to no apparently useful end
mircea_popescu: well, thjat's the fate of the web generally.
asciilifeform: Thursday June 25 2009.
mircea_popescu: ah right you are. was going by 1st comment date.
asciilifeform: and did 'go for jugular' on quite a few, see comments ?
mircea_popescu: link me.
asciilifeform: and those of sequel
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=374
assbot: Loper OS » Of Weighty Matters, or Thumbs Still Down for Clojure. ... ( http://bit.ly/1P0sY8C )
mircea_popescu: no, link me to an exemplary case of jugular.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9900 @ 0.00052841 = 5.2313 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: e.g., http://www.loper-os.org/?p=42&cpage=2#comment-3256 , whole thread?
assbot: Loper OS » Thumbs Down for Clojure ... ( http://bit.ly/1P0t4wU )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6351 @ 0.00052842 = 3.356 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: you probably realise already that once the reference has to be "whole thread" i win.
asciilifeform: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=42&cpage=2#comment-3385
assbot: Loper OS » Thumbs Down for Clojure ... ( http://bit.ly/1P0tbIX )
mircea_popescu: "Dear Luc prefontaine, > Your last post shows how little you know about Clojure. Your arguments show how little experience (or memory thereof) you have with genuine, interactive, conceptually-consistent Lisp systems."
asciilifeform: and if not this, then i prolly don't even rightfully apprehend what mircea_popescu had in mind
mircea_popescu: let me tell you a story.
mircea_popescu: one day, it was the turtle's birthday.
mircea_popescu: all its friends in the forest brought it gifts. items that they themselves would have preferred.
mircea_popescu: the lion brought it meat. the bear, honey.
mircea_popescu: eventually, all the poor turtle got out of the monstrous party was one salad leaf.
mircea_popescu: yes, your dismissal of dear luc is, by some sort of exterior standard, correct. this is not the same as confronting the offender with the inconsistency of his own view ~in his own terms~, which is what i had in mind.
asciilifeform: i tried this often, but was never really good at it.
asciilifeform: the idiots have an impenetrable armour plate
mircea_popescu: well cuz you don't like people.
mircea_popescu: ah, but that's besides the point.
mircea_popescu: !up Jordan_
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2300 @ 0.00052777 = 1.2139 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform understand, "confronting tghe offender with the inconsistency of his own view ~in his own terms~" does not at all mean "geting him to stop being an idiot". not in any sense.
asciilifeform: what, then ?
asciilifeform: also i will note, it is somewhat more difficult to bludgeon morons as a dervish, than from a dirigible.
shinohai: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 412.02, Best ask: 412.07, Bid-ask spread: 0.05000, Last trade: 412.02, 24 hour volume: 8895.859384380001, 24 hour low: 407.47, 24 hour high: 414.5, 24 hour vwap: None
shinohai: Nice logs again someone must have given nubbins a xanax.
asciilifeform: 'if yer so smart, why aintcha rich!' 'paulgraham hates you, the gods forsake you'
JBBetter: Are there developers in here for bitbet.us?
mats: yes.
JBBetter: ok, hopefully can message me. Want to discuss about the platform
mircea_popescu: specifically ?
JBBetter: developing it into something bigger
mircea_popescu: ok, but that's not very specific is it ?
JBBetter: right, would want to go into pm or private room
mircea_popescu: well, for that you'll have to get into the wot, establish yourself, read the logs for a while...
mircea_popescu: shinohai i guess "community organizing" doesn't pay as well as one'd have expected or w/e.
JBBetter: That is fine with me.
mircea_popescu: !h
assbot: http://wiki.bitcoin-assets.com/irc_bots/assbot
shinohai: Just ask Obama
mircea_popescu: ^ can start there JBBetter
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform : "> This last post from you indicates clearly that your horizon is limited and you are allergic to new ideas and cannot bring facts and rationale to your statements. Pray tell, just what are the “new” ideas in Clojure? The idea of setting up an ersatz Lisp on top of the JVM is not the least bit new. Neither is immutable data." << readily the best bit in there. and it is pretty good as it is.
mircea_popescu: also, did you ever hit lydia ?
Azelphur: mircea_popescu: did ya spot my PM? :P
mircea_popescu: about the RagnarDanneskjol fellow ? i have no idea what he does tbh.
mircea_popescu: ;;seen RagnarDanneskjol
gribble: RagnarDanneskjol was last seen in #bitcoin-assets 50 weeks, 4 days, 12 hours, 35 minutes, and 12 seconds ago: <RagnarDanneskjol> trinque - i am occasionally using the nick for continued development on punks ver. if anyone here's partial to the name I can pass it over. Wow that xm42
mircea_popescu: been longer than that afaik.
Azelphur: mircea_popescu: my former employer :P
Azelphur: just thought it might amuse you, gone from bad to worse :)
fluffypony: wasn't he the headhunter trying to hire staff for everyone?
fluffypony has a vague recollection
Azelphur: fluffypony: that's the one
mircea_popescu: a while back, yeah. don't think it worked out too well in the end.
mircea_popescu: possibly not much demand.
fluffypony: yeah
Azelphur: I worked for him for a little over a year, he stopped paying me, now I hear he's taking web dev work and telling clients I'm working on their projects...I quit back in December and have no knowledge of said projects
mircea_popescu: is this basically one of those freelancer coder teams thing ?
Azelphur: something like that, only minus the team I guess?
mircea_popescu: lol k
Azelphur: At least, the above is what I was told by one of his supposed clients
deedbot-: [BitBet Bets Bets] 3.00000000 BTC on 'Yes' - Donald Trump will win the 2016 United States Presidential Election - http://bitbet.us/bet/1250/donald-trump-will-win-the-2016-united-states/#b33
mircea_popescu: 2:1 by now he gets nomination and 1:2 he wins.
mircea_popescu: fluffypony tbh i did spend some time thinking about it - then. i don't see how what he was trying to do could have worked. why the everloving would someone here eschew the benefit of the wot and "hire someone to hire" for you ?
mircea_popescu: when s.mg needed a tech hand diana_coman got it ; the job wasn't on the market nor would s.mg have continued had the job had to go to the market.
fluffypony: yeah, seemed a colossal waste of time in the end
mircea_popescu: pretty much the only way he could have made economic sense was by marketing the spare cycles of well connected people here - outside.
mircea_popescu: that seems workable on the surface - until you realise that the one thing being here promises is that those people won't generally WANT to work for $cubefarm.
mircea_popescu: just ask alf.
mircea_popescu: and so... not yet a cracked nut.
mircea_popescu: i suppose to be cracked the same way all of them get cracked - guy with immense downlist and very well connected gets off his lazy, stupid fiat-ass and goes through the wot selection process. then has enough spots specific and high level enough to interest the locals. seems a tall order.
mircea_popescu: might as well demand trump learns a foreign language.
mircea_popescu: "why would i ??!?! i am going to be the president of the united states!" "because you're one twist away from being an idiot" "so ?!"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27300 @ 0.00052589 = 14.3568 BTC [-] {9}