log☇︎
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asciilifeform: meanwhile in trb observatory, http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/trb/10_5_6_7_ProcessBlock.txt
asciilifeform: diana_coman: i suspect idea was 'make him manually gpg --verify ... and then press by hand-gnupatch a la pre-v trb, better than signed tar'. but i'ma let phf clarify.
asciilifeform: rereading is great, but it isn't cost-free. if i sit down to reread trb , i'ma have to come back in a ~year
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in trb observatory... http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/trb/10_4_ProcessBlock.txt
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-03#1857737 << nicoleci - So what was going on there was this: I had compiled a new trb with a new patch that I was testing, and I was remarking about that it's build was finished. ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-10-03 13:28 asciilifeform: aaand i'ma skip this morning's 'in trb observatory...' , it's a straight line of 'ACCEPTED' from known trb people
a111: Logged on 2018-10-03 17:18 diana_coman: http://bimbo.club/?p=39 -> ahaha, "Mod6 finished trb"
asciilifeform: i'm quite reluctant to sink substantial moneys into heathen isps, for obv. reason. in that thread was thinking of 'cash and carry' modest item, strictly for moar-trb.
asciilifeform: ( possibly he even has it nao, i recall seeing a trb noad running from ru not too long ago )
asciilifeform: here is also where i must note that , while i'd like moar / moar-dispersed trb nodez, my time budget for trying to talk sense into remote orcs is quite limited atm
asciilifeform: 'Asciilifeform ran the experimental patch bringup in trb node zoolag' << bahahahawaaat
a111: Logged on 2018-09-29 04:22 mod6: sweet, trb is done
diana_coman: http://bimbo.club/?p=39 -> ahaha, "Mod6 finished trb" ☟︎
asciilifeform: aaand i'ma skip this morning's 'in trb observatory...' , it's a straight line of 'ACCEPTED' from known trb people ☟︎
asciilifeform: sooo if anybody ( mircea_popescu ? diana_coman ? ) knows of some place that 1) isn't complete shit 2) doesn't have a trb noad living there yet -- plox to write in.
asciilifeform: i've been thinking i oughta conjure up moar trb nodez, but erry time i sit down and look to do it, end up thinking 'why give money to heathen derps'. but on other hand it dun do much good to put 9000 nodes all in pizarro. but to which heathen can give moneys without retching..
BingoBoingo: It's also possible there's another trb node I haven't put my own eyes on running on a residential connection in this country
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in trb observatory, http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/trb/10_2_moar_ProcessBlock.txt << caught up..
a111: Logged on 2018-09-28 15:12 asciilifeform: even if seems that 100% of 2/3-frag packets make it through in 'laboratory' conditions, still gotta remember that the frag reassembly buffer is the ~exact~ equivalent of the pre-trb 'block orphanage'
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in the trb observatory, http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/trb/10_2_ProcessBlock.txt
a111: Logged on 2018-10-02 03:10 mod6: Lords and Ladies of TMSR~: Update on 216.151.13.78 (The Bitcoin Foundation's 2nd node), this TRB machine will be shutdown tomorrow morning, to be packed up and brought to texas (it's new home). We anticipate this box to come back online on-or-around November 15th.
mod6: Lords and Ladies of TMSR~: Update on 216.151.13.78 (The Bitcoin Foundation's 2nd node), this TRB machine will be shutdown tomorrow morning, to be packed up and brought to texas (it's new home). We anticipate this box to come back online on-or-around November 15th. ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 15:58 mod6: One other thing that I should note here, perhaps, is that I feel like I really get into the work deep into thought; when doing the trb related work.
mod6: Good thing trb has burned off many warts. However, some warts are so deep, would kill the paitent.
asciilifeform: meanwhile in the trb observatory, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/cMfST/?raw=true << restarted zoolag, and confirms my earlier hypothesis -- 'bastards' from friendlies are simply when they throw their latest block blindly at each peer, without concern for who actually can eat it, and who cannot. shitoshi's shit protocol.
asciilifeform: i dun see why it would apply to trb tho, trb must have write or it cannot store blox.
diana_coman: yes, it's better stated that way: focused but not limited to trb
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 14:22 diana_coman: asciilifeform, my understanding is that tbf's scope is not limited to trb, nor focused specifically mainly on trb
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856377 << well, the way i read the 1-2-3-4 progression from above is that "it is focused but not limited to trb, supposed to outreach from it". ☝︎
mod6: Not only FFA, but other parts of TRB that I'd love to educate myself upon. I think you take my meaning.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 14:22 asciilifeform: i could even see an argument that the charter could permit 'trb-i' work under the flag of tbf. but that's as far as it goes, per my reading
mod6: One other thing that I should note here, perhaps, is that I feel like I really get into the work deep into thought; when doing the trb related work. ☟︎
diana_coman: I certainly think mod6 is and has been doing a great job in maintaining the v-tree for trb - and as I said before, I don't think it's something linked to tbf chair position
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 14:08 asciilifeform: incidentally, does anyone remember wtf happened to the 'log timestamps' patch for trb ? who wrote it, and how come it never made it into the flagship tree ?
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 14:09 asciilifeform doesn't use any fancy redirection-to-sys-logger for trb log, and doesn't intend to
mod6: I love trb, and doing the foundation. I take a very measured, meticulous, methodical, and detail oriented approach to the work to provide a very sound patch set -- as best as I can.
mod6: Right now, I've got two major struggles. The Foundation, which I feel like I've been at least successful at the trb curation end of (and am certainly much more well suited for), and Pizarro.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 14:08 asciilifeform: incidentally, does anyone remember wtf happened to the 'log timestamps' patch for trb ? who wrote it, and how come it never made it into the flagship tree ?
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 13:57 asciilifeform: meanwhile, in trb observatory : http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/trb/10_1_ProcessBlock.txt << anatomy of a 'noad behind'. whole night zoolag fed nuffin but 'bastards', and incl. by friendlies, in continuation of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856264
diana_coman: so then that, fine; not to do with trb though per se, cool
diana_coman: I don't see that related to one specific chair, I guess; i.e. I don't even see a problem if mod6 wants to continue testing the patches and maintaining the tree even if he is not trb chair (not that he has to continue, but neither does he have to pass the job on if he is not chair anymore)
asciilifeform: as i observed just today and on 9000 occasions, even the simple thing of 'why can a trb node be 100 blox behind a fellow trb peer' is not yet licked
asciilifeform: fwiw i see my own work on trb, to date, as a ~defensive~ affair, i.e. to make whatever fixes req'd to keep the thing working precisely as it worked in 2009, in the face of the very real and continuing network rot / 9000 forms of active attack from heathendom to date
diana_coman: I agree that there is plenty of work to be done on trb, sure; but I don't see the subtraction thing
diana_coman: i.e. what does one have to do with the other? what, hanbot should now start working on trb if she becomes chair?
asciilifeform: way i see it, there's plenty of sharp edges left on good old trb, and any new work ought not to subtract from the very real remaining work of smoothing'em out.
asciilifeform: errything done to date, related to trb at least tangentially.
diana_coman: asciilifeform, my understanding is that tbf's scope is not limited to trb, nor focused specifically mainly on trb ☟︎
asciilifeform: i could even see an argument that the charter could permit 'trb-i' work under the flag of tbf. but that's as far as it goes, per my reading ☟︎
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856296 << i gotta admit that i dun see point in 'growth for growth's sake'. there was already prb 'foundation' for ~that~. tbf is for maintaining & improving (constructively! there's plenty of actual ills to cure, that dun reduce to 'not enuff heathen notoriety' ) trb. ☝︎
asciilifeform doesn't use any fancy redirection-to-sys-logger for trb log, and doesn't intend to ☟︎
asciilifeform: incidentally, does anyone remember wtf happened to the 'log timestamps' patch for trb ? who wrote it, and how come it never made it into the flagship tree ? ☟︎☟︎
asciilifeform: and yea it's http://btcbase.org/patches/asciilifeform_aggressive_pushgetblocks/tree/bitcoin/src/main.cpp#L1362 that trb (and for that matter heathens, but fuck'em) doesn't respond to sanely.
asciilifeform: i'm pretty curious why a trb node is able to answer pfrom->PushGetBlocks(pindexBest, uint256(0)); with ANYTHING other than the immediately-missing next block, when it is known to have it.
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 00:59 asciilifeform: meanwhile in asciilifeform's trb observatory : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/SEy0g/?raw=true << 'bastards' emitted by ( among others ) friendlies. really is imho bug, trb ought not to send bastards to trb.
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in trb observatory : http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/trb/10_1_ProcessBlock.txt << anatomy of a 'noad behind'. whole night zoolag fed nuffin but 'bastards', and incl. by friendlies, in continuation of http://btcbase.org/log/2018-10-01#1856264 ☝︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: i did not say "infect with trb".
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: could've sworn we had the 'infect with trb' thread ..
a111: Logged on 2018-10-01 03:24 hanbot: asciilifeform actually in principle i very much am interested. i'm not sure i fully grasp what it's supposed to do beyond making trb available tho'...if "fruit"'s so far unsatisfactory, what's good fruit look like?
hanbot: asciilifeform actually in principle i very much am interested. i'm not sure i fully grasp what it's supposed to do beyond making trb available tho'...if "fruit"'s so far unsatisfactory, what's good fruit look like? ☟︎
asciilifeform: meanwhile in asciilifeform's trb observatory : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/SEy0g/?raw=true << 'bastards' emitted by ( among others ) friendlies. really is imho bug, trb ought not to send bastards to trb. ☟︎
mod6: I'll be working on the Pizarro report over the next few days. After which time, I'll start looking into creating a keccak version of the TRB tree.
asciilifeform: as for others, i dun recall who is 149.56.19.79 but iirc also trb
asciilifeform: meanwhile, in other noose, http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-29#1855579 >> http://nosuchlabs.com/pub/trb/9_30_ProcessBlock.txt << thus far . ☝︎
asciilifeform: the 1 gotcha is that most trb-related items afaik constrained by scarcity of skilled l1 hands, not coin as such
trinque: rather than trying to think of ways to throw money directly at trb. it by itself dun want any, or anything.
trinque: one thing that looks interesting externally is tbh throwing first doing something to actively seek out non-knuckleheads (yo esthlos, what do you do for a living again?) and see if a quarter or two of float can get folks building things that put hard pressure on trb thriving.
asciilifeform: right nao we only have blox because chinese d00dz i've never heard of, and dun expect to, run ~trb-compat proggies. i've nfi if trb per se helps this state of affairs to continue, but for so long as it continues, oughta at least not interfere, imho.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i dun propose to 'help' heathens somehow against will. but imho anyffig that in any way makes trb noad harder to stand up than strictly must -- yields terrain to enemy.
a111: Logged on 2018-09-30 01:40 asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-30#1855796 << to the extent ( and it is a ~substantial~ extent ) that a healthy btc net relies on ~widely~ available sane client, incl yes even for miners, to limit in any way the distribution of trb src is imho catastrophically stupid idea.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: i see no gain from putting any obstacle in front of anyone, heathen, chinese, martian, good, evil, who wants to run trb .
asciilifeform: and yes at least 1 cretin 'stole' trb. what did it get him.
ben_vulpes: mm, i didn't mean to suggest 'republic only' trb net. it is however a pretty sane client for the extant network, and perhaps there is value in gating access to such a gem from teh hoi polloi. what with trinque's impending hotwallet patches and his demonstration of their value with trb services, the gem will become only of more value.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-09-30#1855796 << to the extent ( and it is a ~substantial~ extent ) that a healthy btc net relies on ~widely~ available sane client, incl yes even for miners, to limit in any way the distribution of trb src is imho catastrophically stupid idea. ☝︎☟︎
trinque: yeh, this is why I prefer strapping myself to a business requirement for trb working well, rather than joining up on TBF
asciilifeform: to date i haven't conceived of how to make trb into a subscription service ( my 1 attempt at the problem was the 'wires' item ) but this should not discourage others
trinque: beyond hot-wallet-subscription, notions of trb-as-a-service sit, for in-WoT developers that want highly available programming interfaces to a trb fleet
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: birth of trb was 100% powered by 'muscle-powered v' of gpg-signed patches, recall.
asciilifeform: without rock-solid trb, there is no bitcoin , at least not in any shape i'd particularly care to be connected with.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform iirc it was kinda chartered with carte blanche, "do whatever, just do". the way history flew it worked out as a sort of "holder of trb project" pretty much yes.
asciilifeform: and imho last thing trb needs is '9000 new idea'
asciilifeform: mod6: ftr i'm 100% satisfied with your work as trb chair
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: currently not clear to me how there'd be less work if trb were 'mod6 proj' instaed of 'foundation'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i disagree, btw, that 'epsilon', march-current is when the aggression thing was deployed & tested to exhaustion, and gave proper ~realtime block propagation for 1st time since trb birth
a111: Logged on 2018-09-29 23:32 mircea_popescu: considering the rate of new work on trb approximates epsilon for the march-september interval, it seems to me entirely bullshit, this manufactured problem of "oh, we have no way to contribute because no working keccak".
mircea_popescu: considering the rate of new work on trb approximates epsilon for the march-september interval, it seems to me entirely bullshit, this manufactured problem of "oh, we have no way to contribute because no working keccak". ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2018-09-29 22:54 mod6: Anyway, TRB will live on as SHA512 hashes in vpatches until there is a very clean way to switch. For The Foundation, the switch needs to be very seemless for newbs.
mod6: Anyway, TRB will live on as SHA512 hashes in vpatches until there is a very clean way to switch. For The Foundation, the switch needs to be very seemless for newbs. ☟︎
trinque: eh this is no reason to completely halt trb progress meanwhile
mod6: I want users to be able to get a vtron, as they do now, with v.pl, then build trb in very much the same way they are able to today.
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> the one useful thing here would be to get trb properly ground already. << I'm probably not going to do this until there is a vtron that supports keccak.
mircea_popescu: the one useful thing here would be to get trb properly ground already.
asciilifeform: this experiment will work 9000x better once there's several trb folx other than asciilifeform doing it, cuz learning 'block x came from... this-here trb noad' dun tell me much, it'd be useful to know where ~he~ got it, etc
asciilifeform: ACHTUNG, panzers ! trb node zoolag will be down for approx 20min for experimental patch bringup, starting 5min from nao.
mod6: sweet, trb is done ☟︎
BingoBoingo: Gone from cover of "loud redditards" pissing UDP at webservers to bloat blocker shitting turd boluses at trb nodes
asciilifeform: even if seems that 100% of 2/3-frag packets make it through in 'laboratory' conditions, still gotta remember that the frag reassembly buffer is the ~exact~ equivalent of the pre-trb 'block orphanage' ☟︎
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: lol recall how we even ended up with v, ' asciilifeform : 'it is obvious!11 how to arrange trb patches' errybodyelse : 'nah' )
asciilifeform: once it ~does~ exist, and fully displaces the duct tape, then yes i'ma start regrinding other things , and i expect then mod6 -- trb, etc
asciilifeform: apparently diana_coman has been hand-cranking it, sorta like asciilifeform's 1st yr of trb pre-vtron