log
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mircea_popescu: next you turn green...
ben_vulpes: nah, but carrying 27+lbs of kid plus groceries while i stare at the sky and contemplate nozzles that impart rotational inertia to the flugenbody is not time efficient; i can just as easily design while hefting bairns
ben_vulpes: no need to impose all of the load on others
mircea_popescu: or you could add pedals to your desk and produce your own electricity.
ben_vulpes: electricity is an antipattern
mircea_popescu: ok, olive oil then.
ben_vulpes: eh just make more babies
ben_vulpes: reduce excess baby into biodiesel
mircea_popescu: https://reuelbrion.github.io/AgroTempus/ << from guy on trilema.
mircea_popescu: working towards the ultimate tmsr goal. ben_vulpes does the miners, we got an autonomous noncorporeal state going
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> (you're invited to go fishing, discover fish will eat your bait and not bite) << AHA, this is where most bait goes.
ben_vulpes: first
ben_vulpes: pete_dushenski: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-01-27/u-s-economic-growth-cools-on-biggest-trade-drag-since-2010
mircea_popescu: lol 1.9% blow me down.
mircea_popescu: o look, trade deficit widening.
mircea_popescu: should be interesting to see what trump does re that only really important point.
ben_vulpes: later y'all
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> Browser shots Sorry service is down for maintanence << dude they're not even trying anymore, the web's deader than shannen doherty's career << haha
mod6: <+asciilifeform> (i am speaking strictly of provably-unreachable routines. there are others that could be snipped, with some work, without affecting semantics) << indeed. i have collected some of these myself.
mircea_popescu: btw, anyone here who hasn't played knight;s bounty (the legend) ?
mircea_popescu: game's fucking epic.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> if computers-were-magic(tm) then the thing would produce a virtual infinite space and the viewport would be dragged around across it, so you could follow diagonally << This is where Qntra CSS is masterpiece!
BingoBoingo has not played
mircea_popescu: for srs
BingoBoingo: much srs
mod6: <+ben_vulpes> isn't that what you call that thing in basketball where one dood drives in and puts the ball up for someone else to net? << this is an alley-oop
trinque: layup's a finger roll around the side of the basket, horizontal spin on ball so it rolls along backboard and in
trinque: more of a bank than roll along, but yeah
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/CFAA83DBA61419976C5A7EB332195CB3BB611760917DF59CE06273B247798B6D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9931...5093 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.7.205 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.7.205 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FEF1C6C9A890941640110AD479AFDEDCC6132445EEFB2D1F31C1D58AFF1DC4F4 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9931...5093 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.13.9 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.13.9 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX JAL)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/5A35236F137FD211F772259BD5287EDE9AA09CD8A275F881C74BD97AB8BD0545 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9931...5093 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.3.189 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.3.189 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D21502DDC614160506D49019E3A101B1D769C3A49597CAB4B67CBBC0EF4E7592 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 9931...5093 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.1.5 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.1.5 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/CFAA83DBA61419976C5A7EB332195CB3BB611760917DF59CE06273B247798B6D << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1054...6417 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '177.234.7.205 (ssh-rsa key from 177.234.7.205 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown MX CHH)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9E6C665F9E88721784B110AFFF0C32B26A7F76FBF9A23EDDA111C9BC9BED62B2 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1409...7323 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '78.139.73.56 (ssh-rsa key from 78.139.73.56 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (56-73-139-78.kamensktel.ru. RU SVE)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9E6C665F9E88721784B110AFFF0C32B26A7F76FBF9A23EDDA111C9BC9BED62B2 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1413...3643 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '78.139.73.56 (ssh-rsa key from 78.139.73.56 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (56-73-139-78.kamensktel.ru. RU SVE)
mod6: megal0g today, and yesterday. nice.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9E6C665F9E88721784B110AFFF0C32B26A7F76FBF9A23EDDA111C9BC9BED62B2 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1409...7323 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '78.139.73.56 (ssh-rsa key from 78.139.73.56 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (56-73-139-78.kamensktel.ru. RU SVE)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FAE0707E17D6FC42F61F64831A1D0579383302AD965D59BC4A2C82CD7020B595 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1409...7323 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '41.191.238.241 (ssh-rsa key from 41.191.238.241 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown ZW)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FAE0707E17D6FC42F61F64831A1D0579383302AD965D59BC4A2C82CD7020B595 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1571...4477 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '41.191.238.241 (ssh-rsa key from 41.191.238.241 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown ZW)
mircea_popescu: lol poor phuctor been bottling in the rage all day, now it's quiet can let loose
mod6: haha
asciilifeform: lol zimbabwe
asciilifeform: first time i ~ever~ see a .zw
asciilifeform: tcp over dead monkey?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-27#1608962 << dun fuck anything you can't lift, aha ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 23:58 mircea_popescu: drives teh wyminz nuts also, they work out till they drop, i never do, then i can you know, lift one in one arm and for some incomprehensible reason i got biceps the thickenss of their thighs. "BRO!!!" "hey, i got testosterone, it's great."
asciilifeform: ( and i didn't even crib this maxim from BingoBoingo's links. it seems elementary. )
asciilifeform: !~later tell mircea_popescu http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-27#1608577 << here's one crackpot method: implement 'gravitation'. analogously to physical one. i.e. an agglomeration of coin is worth ~more~ than selfsame coin in fragged form. quantifiably, in some straightforward way. ☝︎☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 21:56 mircea_popescu: davout the thing that SHOULD be done about it is make it work in such a way it doesn't choke in its own fumes. not that i know how to do that.
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: think 'earth can hold an atmosphere, but asteroid cannot'. same idea.
asciilifeform: frag-entropy, like other systemic problems with traditional bitcoin, is simply a result of misaligned incentives.
asciilifeform: (as in the node-miner conflict, described by mircea_popescu , for instance)
asciilifeform: presently fraggers do not pay the cost of fragging, it is strictly 'ecological', and externalized to future users.
asciilifeform: make'em pay.
asciilifeform: and likewise incentivize defrag.
mircea_popescu: eh.
asciilifeform: consider mircea_popescu's piece where 'most folx outside of usa will make you pay extra for not paying in benjie-usd'
asciilifeform: wanna pay in pennies? pay moar.
mircea_popescu: look, the problem is that as the empire grows, the army food supply goes from bushels to millions of bushels. "restrict legionnaire rations" is not a solution.
asciilifeform: bitcoin as known today won't work on galactic scale, tho
asciilifeform: lamportian problems with clock.
asciilifeform: so we will not have this problem.
asciilifeform: even earth-mars is a serious stretch, for this reason.
asciilifeform: as for 'growth', i have extreme difficulty picturing the number of users of bitcoin who have by any conceivable stretch of the imagination ~actual business using it~ going up, rather than down
mircea_popescu: why ? the whole point of life is to make less idiots.
mircea_popescu: if tomorrow we conquer the us and put it through the grinder, that'll result in 297mn bodies, yes
asciilifeform: nobody's making moar bitcoinatronic comps.
mircea_popescu: but also in 3mn sane people.
mircea_popescu: well... that's ~3mn more
asciilifeform: there are not 3mn gold vaults.
asciilifeform: today, or 100y ago
asciilifeform: can mircea_popescu picture a planet3 with 3mn gold vaults (not pirate chest, either, but the kind with xray rig, defensive turrets, tank division) ?
mircea_popescu: not sure these picturings are useful.
asciilifeform: i see btc as 'strategic' machine, closer to tonnes-of-au, or hydrogen bomb, or icbm sub, than to something 'to buy coffee with'.
mircea_popescu: that part's not in dispute.
asciilifeform: then from whence 'growth' ?
asciilifeform: 3mn hbomb owners when ?
mircea_popescu: mmm. deglobalization necessarily means more sane people.
asciilifeform: quite likely. but i dare say, they will for the most part be sane in a non-btc-directed way.
asciilifeform: camel instead of mercedes.
asciilifeform: (~sane~ camelsmanship.)
mircea_popescu: now how would you know this ?
asciilifeform: i don't, my oracular ball broke, i dropped it on cement.
asciilifeform: but facts such as 'no one is making more Actual Computer nor is anyone likely to in next century' add up to this picture imho.
asciilifeform: ('bitcoin' on winblowz-crapple is not bitcoin, but a masochistic and wasteful paypal)
mircea_popescu: well, oft repeated alfisms aren't thereby facts.
asciilifeform: want to dispute the hypothesis as stated ?
asciilifeform: beyond 'not necessarily fact'
mircea_popescu: hypothesis IS NOT A FACT.
asciilifeform: 'bitcoin on fritz-chipped box is a paypal' is a physical fact.
asciilifeform: to arbitrary precision.
asciilifeform: to briefly revisit upstack, NOTHING will scale in this mythical 'i want INFINITE parts in close communion' sense. even having too many atoms in one place, 'won't scale', you get neutron star.
mircea_popescu: aha.
asciilifeform: there was a thread where 'there will be S souls on planet an' no moar'
asciilifeform: Or Else
mircea_popescu: hopefully there's such a limit naturally.
asciilifeform: imho one of the appeals of bitcoin is that it in fact makes this limit explicit.
asciilifeform: shows where the ceiling is.
asciilifeform: instead of leaving it as something for people to discover when it is too late and they are already packed like sardines.
mircea_popescu: possibly.
asciilifeform: so in my eye 'stop it from choking on own exhaust fume' is quite != from 'scale FOREVAH'
asciilifeform: and the former is 100% about incentives.
asciilifeform: the latter -- is a bad dream.
mircea_popescu: conversely, the proposition that "the sum total of people that could possibly be worth knowing is equal my dunbar number" smacks a little of panglossism
asciilifeform: the number is unknowable and i will not pretend to know it or estimate it.
asciilifeform: but it is FINITE.
asciilifeform: because the alternative is lunacy.
mircea_popescu: well...
mircea_popescu: the above was also finite : 2.1 quintillion.
asciilifeform: as alluded to earlier, speed of light forces you to have localized bitcoin nets. can easily make'em hierarchical.
asciilifeform: so mircea_popescu an' the other immortals, could have their galactic coin.
asciilifeform: it wouldn't work quite like today's bitcoin, tho.
asciilifeform: and would still necessarily remain finite machine.
asciilifeform: and if universe expands and you gotta grow it -- you grow it at the tendrils (leaves)
asciilifeform brb, meat.
asciilifeform: !~later tell ben_vulpes your logtron drops last line..? bug?
jhvh1: asciilifeform: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: or nm, just drops 'actions' ☟︎
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-27#1608389 << not anymore http://btcbase.org/log/2016-09-05#1534769 ☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 19:52 ben_vulpes: unless i misremember, the man is in the habit of at least mentioning prolonged absences.
a111: Logged on 2016-09-05 21:19 deedbot: diana_coman rated phf 2 << Only known fault so far is making public the day he leaves for vacations.
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 920.05, vol: 4322.84020147 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 908.295, vol: 3526.56063 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 918.37, vol: 8571.18061411 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 926.199454, vol: 5549.76380000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 920.0, vol: 1236.06537967 | Volume-weighted last average: 919.111117634
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-01-27#1608382 << this is the official acknowledgement of the receipt. likewise i saw it the first two times you posted it, but didn't realize that writing the nth copy of the logreader that you embarked on is a high priority republic business. seriously, what's with the attitude? ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-01-27 19:49 ben_vulpes: phf: and on this, the third consecutive day of asking, would you kindly acknowledge receipt?
BingoBoingo: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=334
BingoBoingo: ^ Lafond reminisces about youth
BingoBoingo: "I had seen the moonwalk [not the pedophilic stage dance, but the actual walk on the Moon that orbits Planet Earth] recently and therefore believed in what was essentially magic."
asciilifeform: wb phf
phf: ty
ben_vulpes: it's not, sorry
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: yes, drops action
BingoBoingo: http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=6392
BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/sN4iG and another https://scontent.ford1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16195583_1545329468840698_6964324230302921332_n.jpg?oh=8940116e09d581e2d424d1270ffb44d2&oe=5919C78A
shinohai: !~later tell BingoBoingo http://ix.io/1Rjr
jhvh1: shinohai: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: and in other cat news, http://68.media.tumblr.com/de8a7547919242e2328cd231505cdf09/tumblr_oadgv5lqeY1s02vreo1_500.gif
mircea_popescu: and in other non-rape things, http://68.media.tumblr.com/e93b99e7d7bfd4fbe2a1d9b77d545f44/tumblr_okct3g6WVD1vfg3jto1_1280.jpg
mircea_popescu: !!up Reuel
deedbot: Reuel voiced for 30 minutes.
Reuel: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/TNoAl/?raw=true
Reuel: is the game idea
Reuel: where do I find more about your Eulora suggestion?
mircea_popescu: how do you mean ?
Reuel: you suggested the Eulora text mode conversion, could you tell more about it
mircea_popescu: Reuel your description is badly phrased. for instance in the first paragraph : i encounter the symbol "the best outcome for their nation", but it's not defined nor obviously supported by the introduction. leaving aside that going from "x is defined" to "x is measurable in an algebraic group which permits ordering" which is what "best" implies -- your perspective is globalist and there's no fundamental solution for a national
mircea_popescu: perspective in that context.
mircea_popescu: to put it bluntly it's either that "people vote" or that "their nation". denied middle between these.
Reuel: yeah the introduction can be ignored, this was a work in progress which should become the manual
Reuel: That was more meant to set the tone, and the target audience would be people who vote irl
mircea_popescu: mkay lessee.
Reuel: I hope you can grasp the game cycle from this
mircea_popescu: A job influences what salary a player receives << where's the salary come from ?
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F0B59B054AFCC24BEC878469289B2851D3BD422E6529BDCE3A552FD6FCDC1BC2 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1371...1903 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '210.233.48.105 (ssh-rsa key from 210.233.48.105 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown JP)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/F0B59B054AFCC24BEC878469289B2851D3BD422E6529BDCE3A552FD6FCDC1BC2 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1660...8023 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '210.233.48.105 (ssh-rsa key from 210.233.48.105 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown JP)
Reuel: payout at the start of the turn
mircea_popescu: but ~where~ does it come from ?
Reuel: socialist magic :)
mircea_popescu: you don't grasp the problem with this.
mircea_popescu: consider all the rest of your magic numbers. where does the one in "they can veto the outcome of one national ballot per round." come from ?
mircea_popescu: why is it not 0.984 or 1.1022 ? how do you knwo it isn't ?
Reuel: it;s a in game resource, like ehm... mana? where does it come from
mircea_popescu: "it's a supermarket item like frozen chickens, where do those come from"
mircea_popescu: just because a bunch of irrelevant games are utterly broken means jack. a) eulora isn't broken and will kill them ; and b) nobody wants to play them anyway
mircea_popescu: which is why and how they ended up the equivalent of stripper joints.
Reuel: hmm
diana_coman: Reuel, I suggest you read & a play eulora for a while - it will help you with this
Reuel: I did, and I get the idea, but this is way smaller in scope
Reuel: well youll probably tell me i dont get the idea
diana_coman: what idea do you say you get? (it seems quite likely you did not get it: scope has nothing to do with it)
mircea_popescu: what does size have to do with whether something works or doesn't ? a broken engine is broken at any scale.
Reuel: that nothing in the game is free
mircea_popescu: not exactly. the point is that ~everything's balanced~.
mircea_popescu: salaries come from a social negotiation, not from the fucking white house.
mircea_popescu: when they do come from the central planning committee the country's broken, and collapsing.
Reuel: Yes I agree, irl, but this would be a small time waster, are you saying that any game that gives you "free" resources is bad?
diana_coman: fwiw it sounds to me that Reuel precisely wants to implement the planning committee possibly as a fantasy where he thinks he can *make* it work
Reuel: lol no, but close
Reuel: I hoped to see it crash and burn
Reuel: haha
mircea_popescu: well, i dunno, this may be something you might enjoy but i have no advice about
mircea_popescu: not something i engage in / think about.
diana_coman: Reuel, unbalanced means broken; do you mean you want to implement something broken on purpose to then see then that it...breaks?
Reuel: I would say the meat of the game is in the intrigue around selecting laws that benefit groups or individuals
Reuel: the salaries. locations, jobs, are more of a setting
mircea_popescu: that usually works when there's a solid underlying reality.
Reuel: my idea was more in the sense that, democracy leads to corruption and gaming the system
mircea_popescu: yes but you need some sort of bounds for this to ripple back. otherwise it's just a free expanding system
mircea_popescu: tomorrow i vote to give myself more salary than your platform can support. i mean this literally, 1024! shall be my salary. what then ?
Reuel: well salries are set at the start, there is a national budget which is divided over all players, but certain laws can change the balance
mircea_popescu: "oh you won't be allowed to do that ?" "why not ?" "Ad hoc!" "congrats, you exported the job of designing your game to an os which was not designed to do this"
Reuel: but to get others to vote for laws that increase your groups salariy, you will probably have to either give something else up or promise to
mircea_popescu: how's "let's fuck the gameserver" as a promise ?
Reuel: good point
mircea_popescu: meta will kill you every time BECAUSE if your design is uncompelling people will btod.
diana_coman: Reuel, let me see if I get this straight: you want to implement a "small" scale model of democracy in order to test whether it works; at the same time, you propose to implement it on a model of reality that is purposefully broken because..."scope is too small for it to matter"?
Reuel: hmm, the model might be totally of but the reality of human interaction and bargaining is present, and grouping, deals, promises
Reuel: but yeah
diana_coman: ugh, and you don't see any problem with that?
Reuel: I see the concern, yeah
Reuel: However I do think it would be a game people would enjoy, maybe not bitcoin people though :)
Reuel: I agree the money coming in is like magic, it mirrors gibmedats a bit actually, lol
Reuel: Going to think on this
diana_coman: there will be some people who enjoy X for any X really, not sure what does that do
diana_coman: as to the trouble there: it's more than a concern - it invalidates your "test"
Reuel: In the end art is to make people feel, some art makes sophisticated people feel sophisticated things, some art makes simple people feel simple things, and I guess as a starting artist, Im not that picky yet
asciilifeform: in other lulz, https://archive.is/zcVbY
Reuel: The democracy thing is not the main goal, just a funny side thought
mircea_popescu: !!up Reuel
deedbot: Reuel voiced for 30 minutes.
mircea_popescu: get your pgp key registered
Reuel: yeah I will
Reuel: going to cook
Reuel: thanks for the feedback
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9D6A34EB13C1B4D0AF4824E1F1D336C0690F0D9AF5B060E80C6620F506DFCF2E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1507...4297 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '201.22.15.251 (ssh-rsa key from 201.22.15.251 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (201.22.15.251.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br. BR PR)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/9D6A34EB13C1B4D0AF4824E1F1D336C0690F0D9AF5B060E80C6620F506DFCF2E << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1789...8077 divides RSA Moduli belonging to '201.22.15.251 (ssh-rsa key from 201.22.15.251 (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (201.22.15.251.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br. BR PR)
asciilifeform: in yet-other recent hannobocks, http://archive.is/wqu4J >> 'A coalition of some of the globe’s top researchers and cryptographers are pleading with The Guardian to retract a story it published last week in which it suggested the encrypted messaging app WhatsApp contained a backdoor.'
asciilifeform: coalition!
asciilifeform: didjaknow.
asciilifeform: refuted!
asciilifeform: and of course closed-source-remotely-updated-turd-on-closed-remotely-updated-os-sitting-on-usg.ssl-pki is not 'backdoor', didjaknow also.
asciilifeform: '“The behavior described in your article is not a backdoor in WhatsApp. This is the overwhelming consensus of the cryptography and security community. It is also the collective opinion of the cryptography professionals whose names appear below. The behavior you highlight is a measured tradeoff that poses a remote threat in return for real benefits that help keep users secure…” the letter
asciilifeform: reads.'
asciilifeform: 'A long – and growing – list of respected cryptographers, including Matthew D. Green, a professor at Johns Hopkins University, Bruce Schneier, a fellow at the Berkman Center for Internet and Society at Harvard University, and Matt Blaze, a professor ....'
mircea_popescu: ahahaha what ? consensus ?
asciilifeform: aha! konsensoooos!!
mircea_popescu: well, they're helpfully writing their names down, can't hurt/
asciilifeform: moar names inside.
asciilifeform: and all of them incidentally part of ye olde rogue's gallery of 'security community'
mircea_popescu: aha
asciilifeform: unfailingly appear every time.
mircea_popescu: respected by who the fuck anyway.
mircea_popescu: "respected" "trusted". why ? "because we say so" "but you only say so so as to have said so" "exactly"
asciilifeform: in related lelz, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/aDb8c/?raw=true >> d00d who kept massive shed stuffed full of s33kr1tz while working in nsa for 20y denied bail
asciilifeform: some comedic arguments on both sides of the court
mircea_popescu: dun tell me he's an imminent danger
asciilifeform: 'flight risk'
asciilifeform: and 'could have hidden goodz somewhere'
mircea_popescu: heh
asciilifeform: 'So, when Mr. Wyda noted that the Court has already ruled, I'm ruling in accordance with the Bail Reform Act and the fact that the Government has not indicted under more serious offenses. So I am limited by what I can make a determination, and here, I'm limited on the issue of risk of flight. I've listened to both sides carefully, and I think that Mr. Wyda has made some very persuasive arguments.
asciilifeform: No investigation is perfect, and no seizure of evidence is perfect, and there is always this feeling on the Government's side of maybe they've missed something, or maybe they haven't
asciilifeform: gotten all of the information.
asciilifeform: '
mircea_popescu: this is going to be so painful on internal review
asciilifeform: how is it that anyone gets 'bail' in usa again..? ain't there ~always~ 'maybe they haven't gotten everything' ?
mircea_popescu: i don't think bail is intended to exist anymore.
asciilifeform: btw in case anyone forgot: the d00d was arrested right after the rootkit leak. quite likely brass knew about his shed for years, and finally needed scapegoat, and flushed him.
mircea_popescu: the "holds in pocket keys to own cell" doctrine (that, if you recall, superseded habeas corpus in the us "legal" system) has meanwhile pushed through and it's "plea bargain!"
asciilifeform: torquemada alive an' well in usa, aha.
asciilifeform: '...the nature and seriousness of the danger to any person in the community that will be posed by the release, it's clear that the Government sort of paints the Defendant as a walking encyclopedia of classified information. I don't know if that's completely correct, but I do know that he had access to all of this information, and I credit him, and I certainly am glad we're not sitting here talking
asciilifeform: about dissemination of information to foreign powers. But, at the same time, he is a serious risk to the public.'
asciilifeform: risk to the public! didjaknow.
mircea_popescu: how exactly
mircea_popescu: this bizarre nonsense where it's enough to state something
mircea_popescu: what is this, an ivy league "college" ?
asciilifeform: it's a usg court.
asciilifeform: all entirely same thing.
asciilifeform: and 'ivy league college' is where they make the freislers for said courts.
mircea_popescu: pretty sad display in any case.
asciilifeform: btw it'll be a lulzfest if one of these 'shed hoarders' turns out to have deadman switch.
asciilifeform: (prosecution) '...if he ends up in the hands of foreign powers, whether or not it's with his consent, an ankle monitor is not going to prevent him from going down the road and ending up in territory that we can't recover him from.'
asciilifeform: then defense : (approx) 'this applies to everyone in this court room who saw the evidence'
asciilifeform: judge (approx) 'but this man is lawbreaker and we are not'
mircea_popescu: awww, there's territory outside of the territory ?
mircea_popescu: i never knew.
asciilifeform: only exists for this purpose.
asciilifeform: (and certainly not for, e.g., 'oh we won't send cut-throats to nail or kidnap undesirables there')
mircea_popescu: so then the tax is not a tax eh ?
mircea_popescu: riveting.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: recall a d00d called vasili mitrokhin ?
asciilifeform: lead archivist of 1st directorate of kgb. also made a shed full of goodies. but in his case, the shed made it through the border, with usg help.
asciilifeform: he got a pension out of it from the reich.
mircea_popescu: vaguely
asciilifeform: lives in, iirc, england, writes trashy pulp b00kz.
asciilifeform: the 1 publicly known 'juicy' tidbit therein was that it contained coordinates for a number of 'buried treasure' arms chests.
asciilifeform: (incl. in usa.)
asciilifeform: plus the usual lists of stoolies.
mircea_popescu: i don't think anyone seriously believes this dude's stuff is not already held by everyone interested in triplicate.
asciilifeform: there are always fresh 'whom to shoot' lists. but not at the bottom of dusty 20 yrs. of shed.
mircea_popescu: !!up Reuel
deedbot: Reuel voiced for 30 minutes.
Reuel: !register 4E7B B257 827A 825B A79D 6602 796C D488 28DD 895A
ben_vulpes: Reuel: http://deedbot.org/help.html
Reuel: yeah :) thx
ben_vulpes: it's !!register <url-to-paste-of-pubkey>
Reuel: !!register http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/AhwZB/?raw=true
deedbot: 4E7BB257827A825BA79D6602796CD48828DD895A registered as Reuel.
Reuel: !!down
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/01/us-activist-news-aggregator-begins-celebrating-political-violence/ << Qntra - US Activist "News Aggregator" Begins Celebrating Political Violence
mircea_popescu: !!rate Reuel 1 new blood
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/XVb8E/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: Reuel try nao.
mircea_popescu: there you go.
Reuel: ah right was using the OTP for rating me
Reuel: cool
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: any thoughts on rustoleum spray on rubber/"plastidip" to slow down metastasization/rusting of body panel gouge? ☟︎
Reuel: Not sure whether I missed some more talk earlier, disconnected a few times, but I'll read up in the logs. Going to mull over the no free money thing a bit.
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: rust is cancer, but sealing it with paint may slow progesion. prolly safer to stick to "rustoleum" paint over a plastidip/rubberseal product
BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/TuP1U << 9!
Reuel: mircea_popescu is there a spec for the bot you mentioned
ben_vulpes: BingoBoingo: "paint" paint or eg https://www.rustoleum.com/pages/about-rust-oleum/rustoleum-press-room/rust-oleum-news/rust-oleum-leakSeal-flexible-rubber-coating-stops-leaks-instantly/
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Paint. Thin layer of pigment in binder.
mircea_popescu: which bot ?
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2017/01/shinohais-saturday-shitcoin-roundup-xtend-again-tor-21-and-buttfunex/ << Qntra - Shinohai's Saturday Shitcoin Roundup Xtend Again: Tor, 21, and Buttfunex
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: If your mission is stopping rust what you want is to seal the area against air and moisture. A thin layer of oil based paint does this. A think rubber or plastic glop is more likely to break its seal because soft. If thin paint breaks seal it should be noticable.
ben_vulpes: aye
ben_vulpes: goals are twofold: prevent further paint degradation and as much rust as possible now that the skin is broken
BingoBoingo: Well, auto painting is not my forte