deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D0C4BBD37524C4B2B77FF50D6C2FEA19BBA9E712F17831980B534158A22C9094 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 168026500246808413594946371500907116935242852828383875540071338244632416255192144137200446307456676510422963756655778396233498197862652511153091147047408061362189507030023869131331706294089108430326902642905997078724979931491371066080376572272350746531415428594070084667426423370703132671668427480125023151189 divides RS
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/637A344705C6B413E53892DA4D4E0DE421E4347FB788D3AEBF414304B0109AFB << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 168026500246808413594946371500907116935242852828383875540071338244632416255192144137200446307456676510422963756655778396233498197862652511153091147047408061362189507030023869131331706294089108430326902642905997078724979931491371066080376572272350746531415428594070084667426423370703132671668427480125023151189 divides RS
shinohai: http://archive.is/Nw5Ft "I'm forking Zcash" lmao
mod6: !!deed http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/1c6ur/?raw=true
deedbot: accepted: 1
mod6: !~later tell jurov I tried to send the State of Bitcoin Address email to the ML, which deeded just fine right now, but nothing seems to have shown up in the ML archives yet.
jhvh1: mod6: The operation succeeded.
mod6: Perhaps you can see if there was an error. I didn't get a bounce message, yet. Will let you know if I see anything on my end.
mircea_popescu: happy bday mod6
mircea_popescu: what's the longer term plan, gonna try and tackle wallets ? dbs ? stick to general cleaning bit by bit ?
mod6: thanks mircea_popescu
mod6: Well, short term, I think the current goal is to get through some of these vpatch submissions as we said we would. Hopefully get through a bunch by year end. (Jan 8th) However, the longer term goal is to work on Ideal bitcoin.
mod6: I suspect the long term plan will come into better focus as we start to dig into some of these short term ones though.
mod6: So right now, the import/dump priv key is being reviewed/reground/updated/tested. Next, I'd say we take a hard look at maybe the rawtx one, or maybe even some of the log cleanup ones? There were a whole bunch submitted by polar_beard.
mod6: I would really like to get some of the low-hanging fruit taken care of in the wallet though.
mod6: Another long term goal is to possibly get some more unit tests written for trb. Might not even need to be something in the perm source base, but something as an overlay to give us confidence when we make critical changes down the road.
mod6: In all reality, now that we've gotten through the immediate build issues, now the real hard work begins.
mod6: It'll be a challenge, but good for all in the end.
trinque: a rawtx command would be *very* nice
mod6: *nod* it's on the short list for sure.
mod6: helping you (among many other end users), have a better/easier time with the wallet is a huge win.
shinohai thinks it is nice to finally read a Bitcoin development conversation that doesn't include the term `Segwit`
mod6: Getting a way from bdb will be a huge long term scalability effort. And we've had some very interesting ideas suggested for replacement. So I think that'll be a whole part of the Ideal Bitcoin probably. Right now, tickets 6, 7, and 8 are on a disconnected graph, but could be easily joined to the greater "Ideal" effort.
mod6: I'm sure there will be some further re-alignment of tasks in coming weeks, etc.
mod6: shinohai: =]
shinohai: I'm so tired of seeing it when I troll for articles I'm thinking of writing a script that blocks it from my browser
mod6: you've thrown some good punches while trolling lately. i've lul'd.
shinohai: xD
mod6: Anyway, overall, I'm super excited for the future of TRB.
mod6: Many technical challenges lie ahead, but with the help of the Lords of tmsr~ and the community at large, we'll be successful.
shinohai noda
shinohai: *nods
deedbot: http://deedbot.org/bundle-436841.txt
mod6: !~bcstats
jhvh1: mod6: Current Blocks: {"blockcount":436845} | Current Difficulty: 2.5361824664148953E11 | Next Difficulty At Block: 437471 | Next Difficulty In: None blocks | Next Difficulty In About: None | Next Difficulty Estimate: None | Estimated Percent Change: None
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-01#1561085 << austria; spain☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-01 00:11 deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/D0C4BBD37524C4B2B77FF50D6C2FEA19BBA9E712F17831980B534158A22C9094 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 168026500246808413594946371500907116935242852828383875540071338244632416255192144137200446307456676510422963756655778396233498197862652511153091147047408061362189507030023869131331706294089108430326902642905997078724979931491371066080376572272350746531415428594070084667426423370703132671668427480125023151189 divides RS
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> acquisition anything < than anything << ty fxdx2
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-31#1561048 << Dicks also works. << You can't have a fucksaw without a sawzall☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 22:49 BingoBoingo: Or OSzall
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-31#1560979 << how does this 'when' part work? martians drop 'care package' like usg drops ammo for isis ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 21:33 gabriel_laddel: When my life is less shit I'll be setting up a method by which in-WOT people can get it for free. You all, of course, will be able to sell the same product I am.
BingoBoingo: !!deed http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/tlnv2/?raw=true
deedbot: accepted: 1
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-31#1561009 << and gavin gets 10x that, but somehow nobody 'has to clean up' his shit☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 21:45 gabriel_laddel: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-31#1560440 < 2.5k usd. Per month, until I bitched about it and it was knocked down to $600/mo - anyways, it isn't about the money, it's about him doing absolutely nothing with it and making a mess that someone will have to clean up.
asciilifeform: just ignore it, costs 0
BingoBoingo: Fuck wrong month in text
BingoBoingo: !!deed http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/qcu15/?raw=true
deedbot: accepted: 1
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-31#1561075 << aha, the chance that he comes up with iron that i would permit in my house, is ~0☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-10-31 23:37 mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-31#1560997 << this is exactly how it goes, on one end of that : everyone has his own boxes / his own process for acquiring boxes. you can't buy them boxes and mail them over, not really, and if you could it'd be a specialized job and wouldn't work like this. and this isn't even the only angle, people are also variously allergic to divers proteins involved etc.
asciilifeform: not even a stab at gabriel_laddel, but at current hardware drought.
BingoBoingo: Anyways, reall Halloween truth. When Elliot was in that Spielberg movie ET, Elliot did not dress up the alien as a ghost. Elliot dressed the alien up as a klansman.
mircea_popescu: mod6 yeah raw tx / log fixing sounds pretty great actually.
mircea_popescu: the thing with the db is, i keep thinking about it and i keep failing to convince myself a db is even needed in the first fucking place. truth be told blockchain is the textbook example of "you don't db this shit son, use the filesystem"
mod6: Ah indeed, an 'interesting idea'. I'm excited to see where we can take that.
mircea_popescu: just the benefit of NOT haviong a whole pile of code in there doing "db" is already immense ; but there's actually no gain from slowing down the disk seeks etc through extra wrappings
mircea_popescu: mod6 iirc it keeps popping up w/e we discuss the bitcoin db monstrosity, which is about each 9 months.
mod6: Agree, we've def. discussed a few times.
mircea_popescu: also i have nfi what "db" we can trust. they're all shit
mircea_popescu: (large codebase, many changes, many "developers" === shit, by definition, no way out of this)
mod6: yeah, me either. they're garbage.
mircea_popescu: and so what, we'll freeze a 2mn loc monstrosity ? you and what army ?
mod6: yeah, no way.
mod6: i think putting effort into: http://thebitcoin.foundation/tickets/trb_tickets.html#6 is the right idea.
mircea_popescu: and then of course they'll discover this nice bug that's been there for 10 years and utterly ruins you. so you gotta update. except the only update available is made by florian "i eat shit for breakfast" weimer and well... it contains 3 extra holes to be burned in 2025
mircea_popescu: mod6 note i'm not even discussing a special fs. that's a while down the road. for now, all that's needed is some serious profiling work, to see how we store the thing. prolly as block = file ? and just use a normal ext4 or w/e
mircea_popescu: actually, improving logging to add some hooks for profiling in there may be a good idea.
mircea_popescu: i have nfi how satoshi reasoned to arrive at the current nonsense of 2gb monoliths, but it was dumb.
mod6: sure, i think going block -> certainly fits into the same paradigm as eatblock/dumpblock.
mircea_popescu: yeah.
mod6: bah *block->file
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> i have nfi how satoshi reasoned to arrive at the current nonsense of 2gb monoliths, but it was dumb. << FAT32 file size limit
mircea_popescu: moreover, the disks / kernel are exactly optimized for this task. fuck around with ~mb ish item on disk
trinque: BingoBoingo: aha
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo he could have made dirs ffs.
BingoBoingo: But with blockindex.dat NO ONE COULD HAVE FORSEEN!!!
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> BingoBoingo he could have made dirs ffs. << IF he could he would not be Satoshi!
mircea_popescu: block N is found in <dir first 1/4 butes>/<dir 2nd 1/4 butes>/<dir 3rd 1/4 butes>/last 1/4 bytes.block
mircea_popescu: or w/e, what was the limit, something stupid like 32k files ?
mircea_popescu: and it's also immensely ssd friendly : you don't touch most blocks. say you keep i dunno, 12 or something like that, user-configured, in memory. this way, you only write them to disk once.
mircea_popescu: the flash cells will love you.
mircea_popescu: pop a fresh 8x TB ssd in a 1+0 raid array, ten years later they're within 95% of factory speeds. because never fragmented, because nothing ever deleted.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-01#1561145 << you can take ~this~ to the bank!1111☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-01 03:20 mircea_popescu: also i have nfi what "db" we can trust. they're all shit
BingoBoingo: To the Republic I pose New Header for the gray lady with the rabbit hat. "Qntra - [Fill-this-blank] Of The Most Serene Republic"
mircea_popescu: what was it, Mainstream News Outlet ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-01#1561154 << those are blox, mircea_popescu☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-01 03:24 mircea_popescu: i have nfi how satoshi reasoned to arrive at the current nonsense of 2gb monoliths, but it was dumb.
asciilifeform: 0 to do with index db
mircea_popescu: sorry ?
asciilifeform: they ain't bdb turds
mircea_popescu: they are still turds. i don't want to seek in a fucking 2gb file to find block N
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> what was it, Mainstream News Outlet ? << "Propaganda Mouthpiece"?, Whatever it is this question now goes to the Peerage for suggestions.
mircea_popescu: kernel / os / disks are not made for this
asciilifeform: but sequential tapes of blox, see the blkcut thread.
mircea_popescu: so ?
asciilifeform: and yes they oughta be files.
mircea_popescu: myeah.
asciilifeform: issue becomes when you try and make tx also files.
mircea_popescu: you do ?
asciilifeform: the only 'humans' fs that is even remotely up to this task is reiser's.
mod6: <+BingoBoingo> To the Republic I pose New Header for the gray lady with the rabbit hat. "Qntra - [Fill-this-blank] Of The Most Serene Republic" << Chronicle ?
mircea_popescu: i dunno that you'd want to make txn files really. they're small, just load their block in memory.
asciilifeform: yes but which block
mircea_popescu: mod6 that's mroe the log neh ?
trinque: Lulzgusher.
asciilifeform: that's what the index db is ~for~
mod6: mircea_popescu: ah, fair point.
asciilifeform: is to 'which block is tx X in'
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform sure. i suppose you save lookup tables huh.
mircea_popescu: a clever design for which would be muchly useful.
trinque: doing something non-idiotic with the set of utxos seems unavoidable if you want to use the thing
asciilifeform: btw if shitoshi weren't dropped as a baby, 'which block' would be baked into tx id.
asciilifeform: or similar.
mircea_popescu: myeah.
mircea_popescu: reverse ptr for the love of fuck. it's FOUR BYTES OMFG
asciilifeform: no shortage of these.
mircea_popescu: myeah.
asciilifeform: and if you cannot do 'which block' because impatient and gotta have txid IMMEDIATELY, then 'top block at time of baking' at least
mircea_popescu: definitely trb fork will have a sane tx-to-block coding scheme
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform no, the txid as used in mempool and the txid as used in block is not required to match.
mircea_popescu: they're entirely separate concepts, mashed together because idiots think that the way the world appears to them in the moment is the way the world is.
asciilifeform: every time i open a notebook and start in these, i barf upon realizing that there is more of these than of sane design decisions.
mircea_popescu: the three girls presently in the room have three girls names, but if i have them fuck each other and film the proceedings the filename will be something with a time in it. apparently this doesn't make the walls collapse on my head.
mircea_popescu: because lo and behold, the mempool of their presence and the blockchain of their past deeds are not the same exact fucking item.
asciilifeform: mempool is a can of worms that deserves own thread
mircea_popescu: sadly. the main thing that holds back sanevelopment on trb is the fact that whatever you want to discuss everyone starts muttering curses and mashing kbd about the 10bn other things connected.
asciilifeform: i'm not convinced that it even belongs in same proggy
trinque: for that matter neither the "utxos and other lookups"
mircea_popescu: it's clear that it needs a message queue / interface with the proggy, but that's about all that's clear.
asciilifeform: trinque: lookups become fairly straightforward matter if sane db
mircea_popescu: db is overkill for this. all you want is 3 things.
asciilifeform: query against blocks, not some running process
mircea_popescu: ^
trinque: aha same page.
asciilifeform: (at no point do i give a fuck what is in mempool, unless i put it there)
mircea_popescu: not unless you're mining, which doesn't belong mashed in here.
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: or engaging in propagation 'astronomy'
trinque: blockhuckerd seems almost approachable
trinque: as compared to bitcoind
mircea_popescu: very much so. also happens to be the correct approach.
asciilifeform: see the obligatory surgeon's knife thread,
asciilifeform: this thing is long overdue for the cut.
trinque: I will be interesting to hear what ben_vulpes has to say about this, given recent block-parsing adventures
trinque: *interested
asciilifeform: and the glomming of otherwise separate concerns is one of the things that makes reading trb a reliable headache.
mircea_popescu: the only correct way to do this is to make a binary tree out of txids and save that somehow isn't it
mircea_popescu: how about this scheme : you do /bitcoin/blockid/aaaa/bbbb/cccc/dddd/ a total of 16 levels, off the blockid, wherein at the end a block.dat 1mb file is found. you also do /bitcoin/txid/aaaa/bbbb/ etc also 16 levels, the last of which you SIMLINK to the correct block.dat dir
mircea_popescu: whenever you process a new block, you add the needed simlinks in /txid/etc
mircea_popescu: (speaking of which : maxsimlinks used to be hardcoded to 40 via param.h for reasons. dunno if still the case)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: well yes, this'd the 'on top of human fs' scheme suggested in earlier threads
mircea_popescu: works on ext2!
asciilifeform: it'll sorta work if you're on reiserfs
asciilifeform: 'works' consists of two things, 'correct' and 'keeps time'
mircea_popescu: what time ? a txid doesn't change what block it's in does it ?
asciilifeform: nono
asciilifeform: keeps up with real time.
asciilifeform: as, e.g., pogo with mechanical hdd does not.
mircea_popescu: this'd be a ssds in raid thing.
asciilifeform: even then
mircea_popescu: symlinking is that slow ?
asciilifeform: pile up layers, with poor impedance match, and you get 'a clim'
mircea_popescu: a block only comes in every x minutes, only has a hundred or so txn if that.
mircea_popescu: which layers are we piling ?
asciilifeform: or ever wonder why winblows is slow? this'd be why.
mircea_popescu: the one concern is that 5mn simlinks in you'll discover that "oops, we decided X number of simlinks should be enough for everyone fuck you"
asciilifeform: hence reiser.
mircea_popescu: hence looking into what ext2 does if you do a lot of simlinks. not like this can't be dry run with bogodata.
mircea_popescu: lol the newman quote found its way into g_l's arsstep thingee
mircea_popescu: and in other slits, http://68.media.tumblr.com/6502dca3383d81e3013c8f519a8a473b/tumblr_n60rfysGPg1rlfy18o1_1280.jpg
asciilifeform: lel that one is fit only for meat imho
mircea_popescu: there's two ?
mircea_popescu: and yeah, the meat goes in the slit.
asciilifeform: she can be a first class donkey, in sunny afghan
mircea_popescu: hey, we didn't all go to the same kindergarten!
asciilifeform: 'tis a good thing that not everyone goes to same kindergarten..
mircea_popescu: imagine if they did.
mircea_popescu: !~later tell gabriel_laddel so the thing is - you have to rewrite this. there's a lot of very powerful ideas struggling in the mire of very poor (and often rushed) writing. there's no way out, i can't rewrite it for you. while it's starting to emerge into sense it's not yet at the level of development where it can be productively engaged. take but one simple example : "$computation against $uri validate videos were watched".
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded.
mircea_popescu: the concept you're describing is sound, the example you use is utterly idiotic. for one thing "validating" that a video was watched is necessarily a void concept ; for another who even fucking cares if they did. in the path between a and b you've introduced a "simplifying detour" of the format a->moon, moon->b, which is pluriously dysfunctional - there's not even any reason to believe moon exists in any space where a and b ca
mircea_popescu: n exist. there's a lot of similarly broken stuff in there, and then there's strange notions i can't readily evaluate. it is also much too long, yet it evidently is too sparsely written in most nodes. do yourself & teh world a favour and rewrite this thing.
BingoBoingo: Oh, how the deedbutt lags
mircea_popescu: certainly the discussion of gossipd needs some updating.
mircea_popescu: o check it out, the supply of internet boat has made it to the french malvines!
BingoBoingo: Miracle of Mudhuts!
davout: the french malwin
BingoBoingo: Lafond does TV http://www.jameslafond.com/article.php?id=5559
BingoBoingo: "The insertion of any Howardian character in the sissy story line of passive collective sacrifice that my eyes were so pornographically subjected to last night would utterly ruin the story. Watch this episode and image Conan or Bran Mak Morn or Solomon Kane in Rick’s biblical place and the story of a tormented, kneeling father reeling in mortal helplessness evaporates."
BingoBoingo: "Such apocalypse fiction is in effect the yearning of the inauthentic sissy soul of civilized man that his baby-crib existence not be imperiled by a call to masculine action."
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/11/qntra-s-qntr-october-2016-report/ << Qntra - Qntra (S.QNTR) October 2016 Report
BingoBoingo: ^ Link to deeded statement coming when deedbutt poops
mircea_popescu: no rush
deedbot: http://deedbot.org/bundle-436853.txt
jurov: mod6: on it
trinque: BingoBoingo: the txn is pooped once per hour; it's up to bitcoin how long it takes to confirm.
BingoBoingo: trinque: No probs
mircea_popescu: lol bb is all excited :D
BingoBoingo: Indeedbutt, very excitement.
BingoBoingo: Because OMG RippleFail to Qntra
shinohai: Since former AOL exec is in charge of Ripple now, how long until we hear "You got Fail!"
mircea_popescu: lmao
BingoBoingo: There's deeper lulz. Dude's the Peanutbutter memo guy
mircea_popescu: srsly, the experience of carly "i sunk hp hear me roar" fiorina isn't enough ?
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/11/yahoo-peanut-butter-guy-fails-his-way-to-ripple-ceo-job/ << Qntra - Yahoo Peanut Butter Guy Fails His Way To Ripple CEO Job
mod6: jurov: thanks. haven't seen a bounce or anything on my side...
asciilifeform: https://archive.is/U8w19 << meanwhile, in the circus
mircea_popescu: lol mkay
BingoBoingo: http://qntra.net/ << OMG a meta-morpho-change-asis
BingoBoingo: In my estimation this design change improves mobile usability by a grave 30%, at least
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: whatever you did, is invisible ?
BingoBoingo: Very visible, you can even say a "top" level change
BingoBoingo: Still more mobile friendliness added, at least another 27%
trinque: noticed that, nice
trinque: also tiling window manager friendliness
mircea_popescu: dude reading usg-tard "business" idiots trying to be you know, radical and whatnot is fucking painful.
BingoBoingo: trinque: Yeah, a line-wrapping hazard has been reduced to many platform benefit
mircea_popescu: there's that image of an ape named ballmer that just won't go away already, they're so lame and inept.
trinque: See, Qntra totally has modern CSS! << lulz from stylesheet
trinque: :D
asciilifeform: http://prolaag.com << in other hilarities
asciilifeform: 'Provably Secure Crypto' !1111111111111111
asciilifeform: 'As of 2016, the independently-funded company is staffed by a team of seven, all of whom joined with a security background, with the majority of that experience coming from the US Dept. of Defense.' << i'ma die of lulz nao
BingoBoingo: <trinque> See, Qntra totally has modern CSS! << lulz from stylesheet That's been there most of Qntra history by nao
mircea_popescu: and in other nightlife news, http://66.media.tumblr.com/2750aac3dd38819ad525d5f0a9b5490c/tumblr_nasddvRto81qg7sdjo1_1280.jpg
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: https://archive.is/riry4 << qntra fodder ?
BingoBoingo: Sure, now's as good a time as any. I was going to save rickets for a very Qntra X-mas story, but a holiday is a holiday.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-01#1561303 << orlol described the process well, imho, imaginarily 'posh country-set parasites 'boosting revenue' by sacking low-rent 'we MADE A HOME HERE!11111' desk parasites, and simultaneously also the expensive r&d folk who 'only contribute to costs'☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-01 15:03 mircea_popescu: dude reading usg-tard "business" idiots trying to be you know, radical and whatnot is fucking painful.
asciilifeform: eventually thing implodes, 'genius' ceo moves to next sinking ship..
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: so r/btc has taken to plagarizing qntra and the logs
jurov: mod6: mailinglist fixed, emails go through a ssh pipe which got clogged
jurov: and no need to resend anything
mod6: ahh, nice!
mod6: Yup, I see it in there now. Thanks for the quick response/fix jurov.
asciilifeform: soooo somebody linked this turd, https://eprint.iacr.org/2016/575 , and i read the paper to try an' see how the fuck a gizmo that requires you to send bitcoin to folx you don't know can be 'trust-free'. took exactly 30 seconds to read to the point where it relies on 'timelocked' transactions.
asciilifeform: which do not exist in bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: heh
asciilifeform: and on multisig crapola.
asciilifeform: bbbbut 'bitcoin compatible!1111'
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-01#1561308 << oh man.. their FAQ.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-01 15:06 asciilifeform: http://prolaag.com << in other hilarities
trinque: "Our device connects separate networks and will pass any traffic between them."
trinque: you keep using that word... I do not think it means what you think it means.
mircea_popescu: it used to connect separate networks... but then it took an arrow to the knee
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: On what matter?
shinohai: https://twitter.com/alexandraerin <<< this thing blocked me on twitter for asking if it went as Kim Dotcom for Halloween
BingoBoingo: LOL, win shinohai
phf: Hagerstown, how appropriate
BingoBoingo: I think you misspelled hashbrowns
mircea_popescu: isn't that where they make faatten dasz ?
shinohai: It's blog is a treasure trove of lulz as well: http://www.alexandraerin.com/care-and-feeding/ "If I exert myself too hard, I pay for it later."
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: that john blocke fellow copied a bunch of log discussions and qntra articles then made "his own propagandas", whereas it's just plagarized Qntra material repurposed for r/btc consumption.
thestringpuller: we were talking about hard fork war tactics inb4 it was cool
mircea_popescu: and if it asserts itself too hard it gets the hose again.
mircea_popescu: "john blocke", seriously ?
mircea_popescu: undergrads doing "social" crap in shitty colleges truly trying too hard.
thestringpuller: i would blame the parents for telling all the kids "college is how you get a good jerb!"
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Who?
thestringpuller: https://twitter.com/John_Blocke
ben_vulpes: > Connecting two air-gapped networks together, over the Internet, without compromising their security.
ben_vulpes: haw haw haw
ben_vulpes: words
ben_vulpes: what do they even
mircea_popescu: he's evidently put in just the tip lots of times!
phf: airgap is sort of like cloud, since we know that cloud is 90% air, then connecting over the cloud is effectively airgapping
ben_vulpes: ho ouch
mircea_popescu: rectum is also ~80% gas, so connection over butt is almost as good too.
ben_vulpes: "when you kiss another human being, you make a long meat tube with a butthole at each end"
mircea_popescu: except if she's been treating an anal tear, in which case her rectum is stopped by a very disturbing, bio-like gelatinous mass. sort-of like a buttctopus.
davout: ben_vulpes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Eat_with_Your_Butt
mircea_popescu: pro tip : half warm water half white wine 1-2 pint enema best thing for loosening up noobie / us middle class white chick / general population nonslut.
mircea_popescu: time of onset ~4 minutes.
ben_vulpes: hi davout!
davout: good evening !
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: this assperiment has been on my todo list since the last time you brought it up
ben_vulpes: davout: how are the isles?
mircea_popescu: i can only shudder in horror at the length of your buttexperimentalist.
ben_vulpes: it definitely accretes faster than i can tear items off
davout: ben_vulpes: life's good, definitely not complaining
mircea_popescu: maybe it's the hangouts you hang out in.
ben_vulpes: davout: "but..."
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes he's not jewish, he's just french.
ben_vulpes: :D
davout: ben_vulpes: but nothing!
mircea_popescu: this is butt noting!
ben_vulpes: in other animalia: http://i.imgur.com/kDAGhSA.jpg
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/11/ingsoc-reintroduces-rickets-to-britain/ << Qntra - Ingsoc Reintroduces Rickets To Britain
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/11/chinese-fiatbitcoin-interface-btcc-opening-us-dollar-market-and-remaining-closed-to-us/ << Qntra - Chinese fiat/Bitcoin Interface BTCC Opening US dollar Market And Remaining Closed To US
BingoBoingo: http://www.returnofkings.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/Cv3WH66W8AAWDqq-300x169.jpg
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-01#1561340 << none of the linked crud has any resemblance to the l0gz, or qntra, as far as i can tell☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-01 17:39 thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: that john blocke fellow copied a bunch of log discussions and qntra articles then made "his own propagandas", whereas it's just plagarized Qntra material repurposed for r/btc consumption.
asciilifeform: looks more like generic reddit crapolade
BingoBoingo: SImilarly not seeing it. Perhaps thestringpuller can blog poast.
BingoBoingo: also thestringpuller if thestring_lab is yours, please rename it because it is cancer that defeats tab autocomplete.
ben_vulpes: man the littoral combat ships JUST KEEP BREAKING
ben_vulpes: most recently, the montgomery bumped a lock wall got herself an 18" long crack
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: best battleship
asciilifeform: churns inventory !
BingoBoingo: "General Motors" Strategy, but for BOATS!!!
shinohai: littoraly garbage
asciilifeform: https://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2016/11/01/the-future-aint-what-it-used-to-be << in related lulz.
mircea_popescu: the littering comboship. leaves parts of itself all over the shore
asciilifeform: ' They had no way of knowing the oil crisis would come, just as they had no way of knowing you’d need to arrive 3 hours early to the airport because of imbecile US foreign policy hubris. Remember you didn’t even need a photo ID to get on a plane until 1999 or so; you could go to the airport with a bundle of cash and fly anywhere you wanted to; just like in 1967. In a later scene in the video, pals from Philippines and Paris show
asciilifeform: up for a house party, because, again, supersonic (maybe hypersonic) flight is super cheap in the 1967 future.'
mircea_popescu: heh
mircea_popescu: yes, the world before america became great was truly a great place.
mircea_popescu: let's make america dead again plox.
asciilifeform: when exactly was this 'great'
asciilifeform: afaik it was only ever in those vhs tapes.
BingoBoingo: Those extra couple hundred lines of resolution in DVD really ruined things, huh
asciilifeform: 'there were these old guys who were there in the glory days. Usually they were uneducated men; working class machinist types of guys who cut their teeth in the Navy. They were capable of building just about anything; these guys were really incredible artists. Not only are these guys dying off without passing on their knowledge to new generations, nobody cares! When I was there, there was this guy Noel Kellog. I could ask Noel to buil
asciilifeform: d me a cryochamber with electrodes and X-ray windows in it for keeping a torr of helium in a UHV system, and he’d go away and build the freaking thing from a piece of aluminum, he’d come to me a few days later, and it would work. There is no guy like that now. Now I have to go through a CAD designer, who will send it to a CAM shop, and the thing will come back with something missing, like no wires to hook up to the electrodes. In
asciilifeform: stead of employing one guy for a few days, the budget will get chopped up to a half dozen people, it will take months instead of days, and I won’t get what I want anyway. Sure, they can build things now that they couldn’t have before, but there is something missing in the food chain: the guy who can screw around in the machine shop and build something that works from a pencil sketch. There are guys who want to do that, who are ca
asciilifeform: pable of it, but that sort of career path isn’t available to them any more.'
asciilifeform: i could've sworn we did the thread...
BingoBoingo: INFLATION!!!
phf: "pencil sketch"?
phf: i know an astrophysicist who does botany for a hobby, he's from soviet union though..
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2016/11/soy-and-corn-yields-massive-prices-depressed-further/ << Qntra - Soy And Corn Yields Massive, Prices Depressed Further
BingoBoingo: ^ Botany
asciilifeform: 'Consider this: my mom went to an ordinary catholic high school. When she graduated, she knew Latin, French and Anglo-Saxon, as well as integral calculus. Apparently, them nuns who taught her knew something which people have now forgotten about teaching methodology. For what it is worth, she didn’t do much homework either, and her school was quite ordinary. And don’t try to tell me that learning these things are somehow irrelevan
asciilifeform: t: they’re not. I feel like someone robbed me of my birthright, as should anyone else who speaks english but never read the Book of Exeter. I’d tell you to go ask the nuns how they did that, but your lot bought them vibrators and taught them to be lesbians, so there aren’t any left to talk to.'
trinque: the guys exist, but the current structure of "wealth" precludes there being a healthy market for their products.
trinque worked for ex-nasa roboticist
trinque: his product? shitty carving CNC
trinque: guy was capable of far more, but who's going to buy?
trinque: ahaha taught them to be lesbians wtf?
trinque: anyhow why's a bugatti veyron exist but a million dollar computer does not
trinque: same reason
trinque: perhaps this is why I hear asciilifeform and phf sound a bit wistful for alt-sov future; at least time to time they horked up a weirdo ekranoplan
ben_vulpes: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-04-02#1083580 << what is the source of this?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-04-02 02:24 asciilifeform: this is 'the hole through which the night walks in', to borrow a mircea_popescuism
phf: !~google hole through which the night site:trilema.com
jhvh1: phf: No matches found.
phf: lies
trinque: phf: thought that was teh logz
phf: ooh
phf: !~google fa65e4c5ad0e5f7a94337910847bd10f7af10c74
jhvh1: phf: PatchRequirements - Semantic Web Standards - W3C: <https://www.w3.org/2001/sw/wiki/PatchRequirements>; Re: encouraging good use of p2p from Sandro Hawke on 2005-06 ...: <http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-tag/2005Jun/0112.html>; A Pen by Artem Bilodid - CodePen: <http://codepen.io/artbels/pen/EVjrEv>
phf: ...
ben_vulpes: yes but i wish to know the proverb of "proverbial" proverbialismo
trinque: !#s hole night
a111: 20 results for "hole night", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=hole%20night
trinque: lol first line is alf referencing mp
phf: http://trilema.com/2016/ideological-history-of-the-republic/ and http://trilema.com/2013/the-dilemma-of-fake-money/ both match on real google
asciilifeform: trinque: humour me -- why does bugati exist while bugati-comp - not ..?
trinque: bugatti is just an expensive ad for Volkswagen group
asciilifeform: dun work so well, considering that i had nfi that they are connected until now
trinque: there's another scamatronic component, where they are often being rented - say by a rapper - from an agency meant to make him appear rich
trinque: in both cases the flow of money involves mass consumers
phf: some kid pulls up with chrome dipped bugatti rims now i'm thinking it's three in the am i'm walking he in a bm drop top 3 and don't even see me but you gonna believe he saw my gun in 3-D
asciilifeform: while the, e.g., cray1, or smbx lispm, could not be consumerized, and is gone.
asciilifeform: this is elementary, and we had the thread.
asciilifeform: you cannot have handmade ic and compete with anything whatsoever.
asciilifeform: it is an absurdity, rather like trying to make a movie to show to just 1 rich d00d.
trinque: eh
trinque: my point was that you have to have a different distribution of wealth
trinque: not to mention a different kind of culture among the wealthy
asciilifeform: there was a mircea_popescu thread re this
trinque: bespoke, massively expensive items, have existed
asciilifeform: pre-industry.
asciilifeform: they also exist today: the littoral combat shit^Hp
asciilifeform: impressed ?
trinque: some guy also launched a Saturn V once
trinque: still impressed with that
trinque: they shot him, but you get the idea
asciilifeform: su incidentally had a considerably larger item, which is not famous where trinque lives, because it exploded on the launch pad (killing the bulk of the su space command at the time)
asciilifeform: could have easily gone the other way.
trinque: I know of it
trinque: not the name, but it was a mammoth rocket
trinque: n1 ?
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: ~2000 tonnes !
asciilifeform: or rather, 3000...
asciilifeform: and some folks believe in accidents that are so convenient for enemy... i do not.
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: I'll change it the next time i'm in the lab with a pen and a pad.
asciilifeform: trinque: consider: a 'saturn' and the maersk cargo fleet cost similarly. but they are unlike: 'saturn' is a cult/religious object (in the sense where nobody seriously attempts to calculate its roi) , rather more like the great pyramids.
asciilifeform: modern culture has different cult objects: e.g., massive pile of well-nurtured 'fupas'.
asciilifeform: british empire has yet other cult objects: massive (and riotously -ev) railroads in india, say.
asciilifeform: *had yet other
asciilifeform: the 15th c. china of zheng he, had yet other cult object, the mega-fleet (with wooden sailing ships quite comparable in size to today's maersk monsters! )
asciilifeform: cult switched - ships, were burned.
asciilifeform: if they had been +ev - would have stuck around, like maersk liners stick around, but would also be unremarkable, like the liners.
asciilifeform: imho this is not escapable:
asciilifeform: you cannot fix culture having shit-values (i.e. defective cult aims) via commercial means.
trinque: aha
asciilifeform: can try to fix it, possibly, mircea_popescu-style, by breeding a wholly different crop of people, but this takes millenia, and nobody alive here and now will live to see the smallest lick of it.
phf: also was soviet strategy, hence "propaganda" which ignoring retarded western stereotypes was primarily not about "north korea best korea!", but about teaching what "soviet man of future" was supposed and wasn't supposed to do. "soviet man of future cooperates in prisoners dilemma!"
asciilifeform: to answer the q in the earlier thread, su was a superior culture (vs the anglos, of any time after isambard brunel died) simply because their cult was culturally superior in effect. su pharaoh orders n1 rocket for his pyramidal glorification. anglo pharaoh orders 1,000,000,001 fupas to be fattened.
asciilifeform: doug hofstadter (english! speaker! incidentally) noted, correctly, that (approx.) 'souls, whether or not they literally exist, come in different sizes.'
asciilifeform: phf: bbbbbbbbut imported JEANS!!1111
asciilifeform: pissed away the rockets, but GOT JEANS! and WHOREZ!
asciilifeform: people would rather be cockroaches than people, and as soon as anybody bothered to ~ask~ them - it was over.
phf: it was all about hubba bubba and bazooka
jurov: please, is it really different from best korea? what are 3000ton rockets for when there's periodic famine and general inability to produce basic necessities?
phf: jurov: when was there "periodic famine" and inability to produce ~basic necessities~?
jurov: when there was soviet union
mircea_popescu: phf in the 80s
mircea_popescu: ie during his formative years.
mircea_popescu: also in the 50s, of course, but then again that was mutually shared with the french, the germans, and all other idiots who bombed their shit.
jurov: and in 60s. and 70s.
phf: well, that was detail rich
jurov: except by then they could exchange oil for grain
phf: also don't forget the 40s
mircea_popescu: nah, the 60s worked. arguably su was above teh west for that brief period.
asciilifeform: don't ask gandhi about brit empire, or jurov - about su
jurov: well, am i factually incorrector something?
mircea_popescu: jurov yea, if you think the soviets had it rough in the 60s you are factually incorrect.
asciilifeform: jurov: quite: i was exquisitely well-fed in 80s.
asciilifeform: 0 famine.
asciilifeform: i still dream today, of what i ate then.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform eh that's a laughable notion. ru was starving even more than ro by 1985.
asciilifeform: i have nfi which ru mircea_popescu is thinking of.
phf: jurov: i was actually curious what kind of "famine" you were referring too. usually they can be named by name, like the stalin and Ukrainians. 80s had shortages, but people weren't starving.
asciilifeform: must be on parallel planet.
asciilifeform: su had famine at the same time as usa: '30s.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the one where ro minister of defense was like "lolz, what, you think i ran off to moscow ? these idiots have it worse than we do."
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu saw schoolgirls sucking cocks in exchange for meat, and i believe it, but i saw no such thing where i was.
mircea_popescu: phf no, they just didn't have fish at the fish shop ; the meat they didn't have at the meat shop.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in that sense the ukraine's been nothing but a famine.
asciilifeform: somehow i had both meat and fish growing up, in what is now urk no less, and did not even have mega-party-functionaries for parents, or even professors like mircea_popescu , but ordinary doctors etc.
jurov: phf yes, they eventually learned to produce or trade grain. but anything beyond that was never a certainty
mircea_popescu: anyway. yes, ru chicks would suck cock for tp, jeans, you name it. early 1990s, too.
BingoBoingo: I hope everyone likes beans...
asciilifeform: noooow i wasn't there for the magical 90s.
asciilifeform: then! yes.
mircea_popescu: jurov you recall that satellite bidniss ?
jurov: which?
asciilifeform: did jurov have famine in '80s czehoslovakia ?
mircea_popescu: you know, when they shot a dog in a bushel of wheat into space.
asciilifeform: wheat ?
mircea_popescu: i'm ironizing him.
asciilifeform: aaaah
asciilifeform: dun forget to turn off the bear, and feed the reactor with moar vodka
jurov: asciilifeform: actually i said nothing about 80s, mircea did. but non-food production woes were a thing
mircea_popescu: actually consumer goods were never a priority.
asciilifeform: that was one of the few things su got ~right~.
asciilifeform: 'consumer' deserves 1 'consumer good', a stick, to be beaten with, so that he might become something more than consumer, and possibly... produce even.
mircea_popescu: it's a great theory that failed spectacularly in the field.
mircea_popescu: all the su stick produced was a horde of anal children. almost as if humans are all on the same mind, and even if you keep the borders locked and the sticks sticking, idiot ru citizen will mirror idiot eu citizen nevertheless
mircea_popescu: like via plague.
asciilifeform: meanwhile the 'successful' folk also... failed in the field
asciilifeform: so perhaps theory was red herring.
mircea_popescu: this is not an excuse.
asciilifeform: incidentally su had ~1 usable generation, the folx who went through the war.
asciilifeform: they were - iron.
asciilifeform: and while they were at the helm (everybody, from janitor to rocket constructor) the anglo shits quaked in their boots.
asciilifeform: then, they died, what remained, turned to the neurotypical baseline human turd mass, yes.
mircea_popescu: the globalists/socialists/what have you got this much right, that it's ~meaningless to discuss "nations", seeing how people are universally the same pressed shitboard.
mircea_popescu: can't distinguish frenchman, german, russian, etc. even in widely variant environment they build the same "plox to cuckold me" mentality.
asciilifeform: particular groups of people, at particular times - quite temporarily - rise above the shitboard.
asciilifeform: then they die.
mircea_popescu: the ~only reason the concept of nation was politically relevant was because of periodicity of (pre-technological, pre-industrial) war.
mircea_popescu: once that went away, the notion of nation lost any basis.
asciilifeform: when i went to the recoleta graveyard in mircea_popesculandia , i could not shake the thought that any single one of the folks buried there, when alive, was worth more than all of current-day usa.
asciilifeform: and these weren't even mega-rocket-constructors, but engineers/jurists/architects/fencing instructors/etc in distant and forgotten and since-demolished orcland.
mircea_popescu: i dunno, various moderns interred there as well.
asciilifeform: these had mercifully brief bio-blurbs on the tombs
mircea_popescu: tru
asciilifeform: hence the impression i walked out with.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-11-01#1561511 << incidentally i was in a '5-star' hotel in usa and they had '1-ply' tp. so perhaps saying no to 3000 ton rockets, doesn't magically create tp-for-everybody.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-11-01 22:04 mircea_popescu: anyway. yes, ru chicks would suck cock for tp, jeans, you name it. early 1990s, too.
mircea_popescu: it creates tp for everybody for a decade or two.
mircea_popescu: moving over to china made the 90s, which were "best ever" and what trump wants to make again.
asciilifeform: 'consumer' worx great while he has somebody to eat.
asciilifeform: somebody who was productive from entirely non-consumertronic motivations.
asciilifeform: 1990s american tp was powered by digesting remains of su.
mircea_popescu: modern democracy, like previous democracies, reduce to this, yes. "life is great while burning the furniture for heat - free heat!"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform nah, was powered by selling self to china.
mircea_popescu: somehow they bought into the delusion that usd is money. and the chinese bought them with sweat. which turns out - is money.
asciilifeform: eh good chunk of usa was ~literally~ powered by sov pu
mircea_popescu: also, the soviets were not productive ; not ever.
mircea_popescu: you're thinking of the japanese, mebbe ?
asciilifeform: depends who is 'the soviets'
mircea_popescu: su is and always was ~as productive as say turkey. orcland.
asciilifeform: the zeks of butugychag were productive. as were the rocket designers.
mircea_popescu: eh, cherrypicking. sure, and stakhanov was best ever coal miner.
asciilifeform: i only give half a fuck re peaks.
asciilifeform: otherwise ancient greece - is a snore.
asciilifeform: buncha goat herders.
mircea_popescu: quite.
mircea_popescu: whereas jurov 's argument was very much re averages.
mircea_popescu: gotta engage with what people say not with what you wanna talk about.
asciilifeform: whaddayado when you get wholly incompatible value systems ?
asciilifeform: which i thought was plain as daylight in the first thread jurov an' i had on subj.
asciilifeform: i literally don't give a femtofuck re how many dead peasants n1 rocket was made of.
mircea_popescu: there is no such thing known in nature as "incompatible abstractions"
mircea_popescu: all abstractions are ultimately compatible. this is required for their existence.
asciilifeform: there may however be such a thing as 'bridge too far'.
mircea_popescu: if you will.
jurov: i asked how is that different from best korea. seems you did everything you could to avoid answering that
asciilifeform: jurov: we had a pretty good 'best korea' thread
asciilifeform: but to appreciate it, you'd have to actually think re subj and not simply swallow south kr (usg) nonsense
asciilifeform: there is heavy industrial equipment built in, yes, 'best korea', still in service in good chunk of orc world.
asciilifeform: was exported, sold for actual money.
asciilifeform: then came nato blockade, enforced boycotts.
mircea_popescu: hey, most of the infrastructure the us has been bombing all over the middle east past decade was put in place by romania. back when romanian extraction engineering was best in world, and haliburton couldn't compete for contracts, so ceausescu ended up with his own concessions which he serviced with his own boats and refined at midia near constanta.
asciilifeform: north kr was never agriculturally rich, it was frozen shit land, and from the very beginning of industry in that godforsaken orc peninsula , was the industrial half of it.
mircea_popescu: i suspect a lot of the bombing enthusiasm past decade has to do with all that impotent rage bottled 1972-1980
mircea_popescu: so yes, orcland can do very well for export.
asciilifeform: until 'civilized' world gangs up on it.
asciilifeform: then - stews in own juices.
asciilifeform: (or capitulates, like cuba.)
asciilifeform: see the wonderful thread currently going on mircea_popescu's www re the crimes of lincoln
asciilifeform: everything that happens in north kr, that jurov reads about and goes 'eww', is a creation of the west.
mircea_popescu: note that this is a political stance, not a scholarly one.
asciilifeform: i dunno that it is possible to consider it in any sense but the political.
asciilifeform: north kr is simply a large-scale version of the thing wonderful civilized americans like to do to prisoners, chain'em up to a post until shits himself.
asciilifeform: then say 'what a fuckhead, he shit himself.'
asciilifeform: well yes -- he did.
mircea_popescu: heh
asciilifeform: so to answer jurov's question, the difference between ru and 'best korea' is that the chaining-to-a-post trick did not work.
asciilifeform: doesn't keep the 'civilized' west from trying again. ad infinitum.
mircea_popescu: worked just fine, you kidding me ?
mircea_popescu: !~google gorbachev
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Mikhail Gorbachev - Wikipedia: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikhail_Gorbachev>; Mikhail Sergeyevich Gorbachev - Government Official, President ...: <http://www.biography.com/people/mikhail-sergeyevich-gorbachev-9315721>; BBC History - Mikhail Gorbachev: <http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/people/mikhail_gorbachev>
asciilifeform: worked on and off.
mircea_popescu: well yes, by definition if works on and off now doesn't it.
trinque: the west didn't do their particularly weird "beat the 5 year old girls so they prance around like weird trained dogs" did it?
asciilifeform: trinque: ever see olympic gymnasts ?
asciilifeform: those are what, exactly ?
trinque: certainly not the same level of bizarre sexual fetish
asciilifeform: granted, i am rather more familiar with western bizarre fetishes than with asian ones.
trinque: they look like backwards villagers that got dosed with SU one day, now to this day say LOOK AM GREAT SOVIET TOO
asciilifeform: and americans got dosed with europe once.
asciilifeform: and ever since, etc.
trinque: heh, indeed.
asciilifeform: but fact is, the koreans built factories, educated engineers, had working hardware, perhaps not first class but quite close.
asciilifeform: but if your picture of it is based on the ubiquitous southkr/usg crapolade, you would imagine it is a cargo cult pygmy set with straw airplanes.
asciilifeform: it is going there, yes, neither the koreans nor anybody else know how to make molybdenum out of turnips.
asciilifeform: but it isn't there yet.
asciilifeform: as for the 'crayzeee', i'm not convinced that is is possible to keep a small and blockaded country from being swallowed up by the mcdonalds monster without some 'crayzeee.'
asciilifeform: whether it 'ought to give in', so the koreans can have levi jeans and wriggleys chewing gum, or continue to work 100 hr weeks semi-starved so that they can carry on the parallel civilization experiment and not turn into 59th shit state of usa, keeping company with puerto rico, is a ~value~ call
asciilifeform: northkr may well be the last 'soviet coldwallet' remaining.
asciilifeform: (incidentally anyone who wants to ask 'would you move there' can stuff the q up his arse. northkr is an ethnostate and quite un-universalizing, the proposition is without any useful meaning.)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the problem is very much that the small country isn't swallowed up by the macdonalds. on the contrary : it swallows the macd.
mircea_popescu: basically, stupid people are not people in any sense, but simply stupid. and they wish to be with their true brothers and sisters.
asciilifeform: i'd not mind living to watch this.
asciilifeform: north kr, swallowing mcd.
mircea_popescu: so : eiother you beat the girls for using facebook, or else you're stuck with facebook. because that's where the stupid is.
mircea_popescu: the desire of warsaw pact to "be like in the west" had nothing to do with anything, and most pointedly had ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with their pretensions and aspersions at the time (freedom, liberty, blabla). it was EXCLUSIVELY a case of "stupid lazy idiots over there! we wanna go!!1"
asciilifeform: it is why the walls were even ~there~
mircea_popescu: they call it "network effects", among the educated stupid, but really what it is - idiocy has no country. it's a thing, a substance, beyond identity.
asciilifeform: because yes, otherwise the pond scum will go to where the chewing gum is and what remains, looks like slug with salt.
mircea_popescu: "i just want to"
BingoBoingo: lol http://maddox.xmission.com/c.cgi?u=alt_news_sucks
asciilifeform: they, yes, 'just wanted to' levi jeans.
asciilifeform: and to the amoeba who 'just wants', the man, who has some mental activity above 'just wants' level is, yes, monster
mircea_popescu: the problem is that democracy is fundamentally going to become "modern" democracy, for this reason. the mass of stupid keeps accreting.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> they call it "network effects", among the educated stupid, but really what it is - idiocy has no country. it's a thing, a substance, beyond identity. << Aka Baby Boomers lamenting that no one wants to hold hands and get along like during the post war politics of their grandfathers not realizing the handholding and hugs were the anomaly
mircea_popescu: so your practical choices are rather unpalatable either way.
asciilifeform: there are down sides, sure, to living as man, vs amoeba
mircea_popescu: anyway. the hope is that we don't have the problem of the soviets, specifically because the republic has ~no problem with the idiots leaving to be with the usg&co.
asciilifeform: but why 'unpalatable either way' ?
mircea_popescu: supposedly it ain't gonna look like a salted slug.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform in classical republicbuilding, your choice is either slaves, beaten weekly, ie best korea, or else taking it up in the ass, ie, rhodesia.
BingoBoingo: In other news TRB leads the way! "Alert" system in PRB being retired via... ALERTS!!! https://archive.is/5OoKT
mircea_popescu: anyway. the difference is marked. stalin had to shoot people to make example, because otherwise village wanted to be with the other guys. i am on the contrary - very happy to see every last idiot leave. stalin needed peons to work the tank factory, which works on peons. the shit we did - more people are a liability not a benefit.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: lulzy, guess of what there is 0 mention.
BingoBoingo: !~ticker --market all --currency rmb
jhvh1: BingoBoingo: BTCChina BTCRMB last: 5000.22, vol: 3230791.27550000 | Volume-weighted last average: 5000.22
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: No one mentions Truth
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Much as same derps never find Peace
BingoBoingo: Anyways, over 5000!!!
mircea_popescu: amusingly enough, this point upset teh empire recently. they really fucking imagined anyone WANTS the extras for some reason.
mircea_popescu: i suppose historical bias. empire always fights the last war it lost and all that.
asciilifeform: waiwat, elaborate, who imagined.. what?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: from commentz: 'Yeah, and people can be irrational and there are also shills and conspiracy theorists trying to find every reason to discredit the Core devs'
asciilifeform: oh noez, discredit.
mircea_popescu: lol
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> oh noez, discredit. << Your discredit card has been declined
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's this pervasive "surely you want more headcount, because headcount is a number and larger amounts of number is what everyone is all about".
mircea_popescu: somehow the st crispin speech never got through. classics be hard.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sorta why i was not much hot&bothered re the 'incorporate church' idea
mircea_popescu: these are orthogonal though.
mircea_popescu recommends you read into the story of the satmar (bait : "If its schools in New York were a public school system, it would be the fourth-largest system in the state, after those of New York City, Buffalo and Rochester.")
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: https://archive.is/zTytA << them ?
mircea_popescu: aha
asciilifeform: lafonde had a few interesting pieces on subj.
mircea_popescu: they opposed collegiate education for girls, as well as voting in israel etc. i dunno any group teh usg hates moar.
mircea_popescu: but, very much unlike the other groups usg hates, these survived a long while.
asciilifeform: (according to him, they have a very effective, 'chechen', orcish style of organization, complete with omerta and folks sittin' in prison for one another, etc)
mircea_popescu: went to shit after the old guy died, but anyway.
mircea_popescu: (for the innocent satmar, of course, is named for satu mare, a small town in transylvania)
asciilifeform: and in re last thread also, i know of 0 examples of anybody pulling this kind of thing off using strictly volunteers having no blood relation.
asciilifeform: nations - exist.
mircea_popescu: hm.
mircea_popescu: nations exist where the father is not too cowardly to maintain discipline in the household.
asciilifeform: i am not expert on satmar, but i did once research the mormons, who also carried on imperium in imperio vs usg for a good long time.
asciilifeform: part of the recipe involves folks voluntarily falling on a certain grenade for the good of the tribe, and it is a very brutal one, they go to work in usg
asciilifeform: and provide крыша for the rest.
mircea_popescu: anyway, to return to the caller : incorporated church has ~0 with more amount of headcount number.
mircea_popescu: has ~0 to do* i mean
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ianal but once you 'church' it begins to matter how many heads you got.
asciilifeform: from the pov of the imperial papershuffle.
mircea_popescu: and once you register an irc channel "it begins to matter how many heads you got". depends to whom.
asciilifeform: keeping 'two sets of books' has cost.
mircea_popescu: the lulz @cat-v.org idiots are instructive in this field. what matters to the powerless is an exercise left for onanists.
mircea_popescu: what two sets would those be ?
asciilifeform: well let's say new york city hall comes and 'we're closing the tmsr cathedral in manhattan b/c kako broke ranks and now you only have 599 people instead of the required 600.'
mircea_popescu: who says you need 600 ? church holds title to the land, can't be expropriated
mircea_popescu: and if it is, 599 can also bomb city hall./
asciilifeform: not if it gets forcibly deincorporated by preet
asciilifeform: whereas if we have icbm launchers and can demolish city hall, what's the point of registering with it to begin with.
mircea_popescu: 599 can also bomb preet.
mircea_popescu: the fact that i can fuck the girl in any hole i choose does not mean i am forbidding from asking her which hole itches today.
mircea_popescu: i am forbidden*
asciilifeform: note, implication wasn't 'we will be forced to fellate preet'
asciilifeform: but that 'now it will matter how many of us are on preet's list, whereas before there was no list, and it did not'
mircea_popescu: just because i could bomb city hall doesn't mean i may not register a church there. optionality is mine, all of it, without restraint. i can do both, if i feel like doing both.
mircea_popescu: this is not so. what lists random nobody keeps are his problem - neither case matters.
asciilifeform: well yes, can easily do whatever, but thread was re cost.
asciilifeform: what's it win ?
mircea_popescu: no, thread was re optionality. ie, if x wants to do it.
mircea_popescu: what's it win ? it wins land. how does the whole thing work ? young man of visible worth, who is a knight, gets asked "do you wish to go take X mark and be the marquess there ?"
mircea_popescu: sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't. what's another mark add ? nothing at all, of course.
asciilifeform: i suppose 1 interesting example of exquisitely mircea_popescutronic arrangement might be yakuza
mircea_popescu: except burgundy was a mark.
asciilifeform: which is in all cases 'registered in city hall' in jp
mircea_popescu: so was cologne.
mircea_popescu: and so was the god forsaken land The Warlord died on.
mircea_popescu: you never know with these things.
mircea_popescu: (the warlord = charlton heston film. pretty good.)
asciilifeform: 'Stop buying into this bullshit. You're getting played. If it's not a "main stream" news source, that means they don't have anyone to answer to and nobody will lose their job if they report inaccurate information. You're not "woke" for reading alternate news, you're a dipshit. Rather than poring over old news clips to prove that 9/11, Sandy Hook, or the Boston Marathon was an "inside job," you should go outside and get a job.' << gol
asciilifeform: d.
asciilifeform: 'shuddup & suck.'
mircea_popescu: lol someone loses their job for being bad at it ? where this, in the us ?!
asciilifeform: 'Now I know what you're thinking, "but Maddox, I have all my teeth!" You won't for long. People who read alternate news sites will eventually lose their teeth. It's an Anankean inevitability; you're going to do something stupid like put a firecracker in your mouth because you are stupid. Want to know how I know? Because you read bullshit instead of news, and you not only think you're informed, but that you're smarter than the general
asciilifeform: populace because you're doing your own independent research from an independent news source. Except you're not. You're an idiot who's going to lose all his teeth. These sites are using you for money...' << is not, however, false.
mircea_popescu: well, depends. how's qntra using random ustard for money ?
asciilifeform: qntra, from pov of author, lives in asteroid somewhere around alpha centauri.
mircea_popescu: or, similarly, take rt. largest program of education of one group of idiots at the expense of another, "read this so you don't get stupid enough we have to nuke you"
asciilifeform: epic, incidentally, failure, it is rather like lecturing to cockroaches
asciilifeform: 'how to be less stupid so i don't have to use the ddt'
mircea_popescu: what with their terrorism of pointing out that mosul and aleppo aren't that far apart.
asciilifeform: worked on no roach ever.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hey, talk to putin, i didn't come up with the shit.
asciilifeform: but going upstack, all of the 'names' in 'alternative' american whateverthefuck, blatantly shilled for, e.g., gold scams
asciilifeform: glennbeck, kaiser, et al.
mircea_popescu: this is true. prolly what drives his post too.
mircea_popescu: guy is kind-of left in that "sarcasm" school of the 90s where you pick an anecdote and blow it up. the thing that got hot topic'ed into cracked.com and by now is so fucking forgotten it almost has cachet again
asciilifeform: ~actual~ alternative affairs do not get airwave largesse from usg. they get banned, like isis-tentacle-not-pointed-ru-wards, and ddosed, like qntra.
asciilifeform: this is actually a subject somewhat 'near and dear' to asciilifeform
mircea_popescu: i did notice.
asciilifeform: who was, for some years, subscribed to all kinds of nonsensical snailmail spamola as result of once being in 'nra'
mircea_popescu: lol!
asciilifeform: (they had a deal whereby the shooting gallery was cheaper)
asciilifeform: and yes, being on that list apparently nominates you for EVERY pyramid scheme, herbal viagra, !!!!!!URGENT!!!!! faux-irs envelope, etc. scam in usa.
BingoBoingo: What killed the GOP in the end was not Trump, but their mailing list whoring
mircea_popescu: sound reasoning.
mircea_popescu: on both counts.
BingoBoingo: Show the slighest interest in conservatism? How would you like a home freeze dryer for 7000 payments of $9999
asciilifeform: i'm gonna guess BingoBoingo was on 'the list' also.
BingoBoingo in 2008 made mistake of donating in a single Ron Paul "money bomb"
BingoBoingo voted Obama in 2008 because I threatened to if the spam didn't stop, and issue was forced.
BingoBoingo: Now, the DOP will also whore mailing lists but is far more selective. You join Sierra club you get spam but spam limited to candidates and advocacy for this issue money taken for. Or so sayeth victims of that side.
asciilifeform: it was not the ~quantity~ of the spam that raised my eyebrow
asciilifeform: but the peculiarly insult to intelligence of the reader
BingoBoingo: Aha
BingoBoingo: Yes.
BingoBoingo: "Colloidal Silver"
BingoBoingo: etc
asciilifeform: even more so than reading usg pravda.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: recall 'the smurf senator' ?
BingoBoingo: Yes.
asciilifeform: he ate, yes, the silver.
BingoBoingo: Anyways GOP "conservatism" imagines itself a monolith where buying into one part means marketing target buys into whole scamatron.
mircea_popescu: ^
mircea_popescu: possibly due to xtian roots.
asciilifeform: so yes, i buy a bottle of wine, and it somehow thereby follows that i go to communion and am in catholic church etc.
BingoBoingo: WaPo at all last week were speculating that trump mailing list might have value, when it cannot because everyone on such list must be on 8 others readily whored and available.
mircea_popescu: oh speaking of which.
mircea_popescu: !!rated deedbot
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated deedbot 10 at 2016/04/02 10:54:44 << It is indeed a bot.
mircea_popescu: hm
BingoBoingo: Anyways the jostling of what consitutes unified GOP conservatism is moderated by a few referees. At present the longest serving referee is Rush Limbaugh.
mircea_popescu: !!ratings deedbot
deedbot: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/01ajx/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: !!reputation deedbot
deedbot: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/gwwa9/?raw=true
BingoBoingo: noice
asciilifeform: !~seen mike_c
jhvh1: asciilifeform: I have not seen mike_c.
mircea_popescu: doh. guess whose key expired.
BingoBoingo: Ouch
BingoBoingo: brb, hammer time
mircea_popescu: well i guess no soup for him.
mircea_popescu: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/l6gup/?raw=true << lordship circular.
asciilifeform: weird, the key i have here for mike_c doesn't seem to expire
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform phf's
asciilifeform: aah
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-09#1554093 << iirc we had thread...☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-10-09 00:41 trinque: so, phf was the second after asciilifeform to have a key expire. we should probably discuss how this should be handled going forward.
asciilifeform: but i dun have his new one for some reason.
asciilifeform: where is it?
asciilifeform: !!key phf
deedbot: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/vjguy/?raw=true
asciilifeform: ^ old