log
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trinque: lobbes: I find your quoting style kinda hard to read. looks like a non sequitur in whatever thread they appear until the end is reached, and oh ">>"
trinque: imho the quote and then comment style is far superior
lobbes: trinque: ah yeah, I see your point.
lobbes: mircea_popescu> [23:49:57] then there's nepos, appian, dio.. << ah, excellent, these give me a lot to run with. ty
asciilifeform: lobbes: i gotta ask, is there a reason you dislike using proper logline quoting ?
asciilifeform: y'know, the civilized , clickable, back-referenceable kind
trinque: esthlos: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-18#1815256 << yo, what of this, and the other things addressed to you?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-18 03:51 trinque is peeling back the layers trying to see what gpg is cranky about. meanwhile, why'd the (defpackage :v ...) go away?
trinque: it'd be bad form to try to throw a genesis patch "over the wall" for this without taking the time to have the necessary threads.
lobbes: asciilifeform: I don't dislike. I was operating under the mode of "reduce log clutter (via not triggering $quotebot) if quote being referenced is ~10 lines away"
lobbes: but, I suppose in this situation, I may as well use the "username:" and forgo the quote
trinque: aha, people are going to be able to tell the context.
trinque: esthlos: there's also no sense in giving the thing a version number. the "version" is the patch the operator pressed to.
trinque: speaking of press, press needs to ask where to press as a parameter, and not have a default.
trinque: since I haven't heard from you, I'm proceeding with these changes myself
asciilifeform: write ops with default destinations are ugh in general
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-18#1815253 << moved my own keyring aside, and it pressed. so this isn't fully isolated from user's default keyring.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-18 03:50 trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-17#1814596 << gave this a whirl, but press of trb's makefiles.vpatch says GnuPG failed to import key ".../wot/ben_vulpes.asc".
trinque: btw see how I'm having a thread with myself and getting somewhere? imagine if ya joined in!
trinque will start ragging on the guy. good work, but needs to develop out of the solipsist phase of the republican encounter
trinque: *stop, heh
trinque: !!v 78B23DC1EE11372E8869A71DDC6DB65368D11395A923AE03ABE8C276727AEFA8
deedbot: trinque updated rating of douchebag from 1 to -1 << http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-03#1808376
trinque: ^ in other solipsisms
douchebag: trinque: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/m11O0/?raw=true
douchebag: Not all of them, but a decent amount
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-29#1790212 << wtf, p.bvulpes is your blog?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-03-29 00:21 trinque: great. I'd like you to review the dependencies of trb (which were frozen at particular versions) for known public exploits, and to publish a report of this on your own mpwp blog.
douchebag: Well, it's not complete so I didn't get that done yet.
trinque: there are "incomplete" items on everyone's blog here.
trinque: you latest crop of socially damaged derps will learn to communicate, and that's all.
mircea_popescu: motherfucker
mircea_popescu: so get a load of this : i'm going uphill in the pitch darkness, you know, these complete hairpin curves, and WHAM! there's a fucking police truck, parked, searchlights etc, on THE WRONG WAY
douchebag: Alright, I can have that done in the next week or so. I'm currently using the rockchip box to host a webpage to troll someone, so I want the lulz there to continue to it's full potential
mircea_popescu: so girl goes around it, therefgore also on wrong way, and the next thing there's a fucking motorcycle coming downhill.
mircea_popescu: if that guy's not wearing brown underwear now...
trinque: heh damn. lucky his ass is still attached to the rest of him.
mircea_popescu: and there's these foot+ ditches on either side, there's no surviving as a bike.
Mocky: damn, I had a soccer mom in a mini van try to lane change on me without looking first just yesterday while riding
trinque prefers about 5000lbs of metal per vehicle
mircea_popescu: ^
Mocky has skin in the game
trinque: I was driving on the highway once, tight traffic, and a guy comes by on a crotch rocket laying like superman on the seat, feet out behind him, weaves through the cars at close to 100mph
douchebag: trinque: also in theory, since I got RCE on lobbes bot, in theory I could have determined the balance of the bot if I decided to comprimise the system rather than proof of concept :^)
trinque: what does his bot have to do with mine?
trinque: stop pulling your dick and do some work, nobody cares
douchebag: The wager was to determine balance of any other user
douchebag: without permission
trinque: no, *arbitrary user*
Mocky: yeah i've seen crazy shit like that, most of it in flordia. once saw a dude riding a wheelie on the interstate opposite direction. never saw his front tire on the ground
trinque: I choose.
trinque: douchebag: you know, in theory my girlfriend could be fabulously rich, given she heard about bitcoin first in 2010. and yet.
mircea_popescu: before me, even! what's she do ?
trinque: (her reaction ftr was something like "computers are shit, that will never work")
trinque: she went to religious school, got an english lit degree and a huge pile o' debt
mircea_popescu: interesting case of "correct reasoning rewarded by missing out"
mircea_popescu: i wonder how many unemplyable grads are filling online job applications while thinking "if only i had gotten 20k/50k/100k worth of bitcoin in 2010/2011/2012 instead of this stinking education toilet paper..."
douchebag: Where is mpwp
trinque: ah yeah, she gets cruel estimates of what her pizza money would be worth today all the time.
mircea_popescu: what's she specialize in anyway, chaucer ?
mircea_popescu: douchebag, http://thewhet.net/2018/04/mp-wp-genesis/
trinque: much later and less interesting stuff, I think. she relates the experience as an expensive waste of time.
mircea_popescu: !!key diginet
deedbot: Not registered.
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1815879 << also to note, you would have had to compromise my network (which, sure, possible) because the box you achieved RCE on is a dedicated public toilet box containing no privkeys of import. I use a proper airgapped machine for important stuff (ala http://trilema.com/2013/how-to-airgap-a-practical-guide/)☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 03:52 douchebag: trinque: also in theory, since I got RCE on lobbes bot, in theory I could have determined the balance of the bot if I decided to comprimise the system rather than proof of concept :^)
lobbes: so, in theory, sure. But in practice you'd have to expend quite a bit of effort to find the gpg privkey in order to decrypt deedbot's challenge to determine the balance of that one deedbot wallet, which still isn't finding a flaw in deedbot, just good social engineering attack (e.g. picking a key off someone's person does not mean the lock the key belongs to is flawed)
douchebag: I could have got a reverse shell on the box though, is the gpg privkey for the bot not sitting on the vulnerable machine?
mircea_popescu: dude, discussions of could have are stupid.
douchebag: I just don't think social engineering would be the right word to use for remote command execution
mircea_popescu: i guess not.
Mocky: couldn't be arsed sounds worse to me than couldn't find
trinque: properly, if he had lobbes key, he is lobbes.
mircea_popescu: well, lobbesbot.
trinque: ah right
mircea_popescu: but anyway, yes, the social engineering part is trying to downgrade the look at the bot (ie, ANY one key) to look at randos (ie, a CERTAIN key).
mircea_popescu: and yes it's misplaced.
mircea_popescu: aaand in today;s excellent old trilema, http://trilema.com/2017/pronouncements-on-camp/
lobbes: douchebag: The 'social engineering' in my statement refers to leveraging the RCE to (painfully, because lobbesbot privkey does not control any deedbot funds, so you'd need -my- privkey, which does not reside on public toilet box you RCE'd into) use deedbot -normally- by becoming lobbes through key theft
lobbes: (lobbesbot privkey, also, does not reside on that box, but you know)
lobbes: but yeah, "could talk", bleh
lobbes: off to bed
spyked: lobbes, I am curious: how do you have lobbesbot self-voice then? do you do it manually?
spyked: (I suspect there is no way to separate privkey storage from bot operation *and* automatically perform e.g. deedbot self-voicing; but I might be wrong)
trinque: spyked: one could make many voicing OTPs, and put them in a hopper for the bot.
spyked: hm. so trinque, OTPs don't have any sort of expiration? the scenario I'm thinking of is that eventually my (for example) home ISP would do some stupid thing that would lead to the TCP connection going down. but that could happen in a week, a month or six from now, so I'd want that OTP to be valid whenever that happens.
spyked: if that's the case, then this semi-automated approach is pretty neat, actually.
trinque: I don't have a defined expiration time for them. If bot operators are interested in ^ maybe we'll go ahead and say it's 3 months, or whatever's sensible.
mircea_popescu: the above ^ is the current model ftr.
mircea_popescu: aaand in other ancient truths, http://trilema.com/2013/things-that-matter-these-days-things-that-dont-matter-these-days/#selection-97.1-105.118
deedbot: http://trilema.com/2018/eulora%e2%80%99s-communication-protocol-restated/ << Trilema - Euloras Communication Protocol, restated.
mircea_popescu: phf, Mocky ^
Mocky reads
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: '(1960*4-8-8-16-64-24-6144 -- this includes two commas and a 2048 bit exponent)' << out of curiosity, how come your exponent is capped at 2048 ? or did i misread this ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, it's an eucrypt-ism, http://www.dianacoman.com/2018/01/11/eucrypt-chapter-5-c-m-e-mod-n/#selection-441.8-453.233
Mocky: re: "int64(4 byte)" should that be 8 byte? and "object (size of 80 bits : int64 followed by int16 followed by int16)" should that be 'size of 96 bits' ?
mircea_popescu: Mocky, ty, fixing!
mircea_popescu: im also changing the structure to lists, at reader suggestion.
mircea_popescu: done.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, (and i guess apeloyee, if tuned in) : i'll be most interested in theoretical attacks of the proposed scheme.
esthlos: trinque: my current plan has been this: I digest the logs in batches every few days, but search for my nick at least once a day. since my nick wasn't referred to in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-18#1815256 , I missed it. my approach may be inadequate, since trilema is the first time I've used irc and I don't really know what I'm doing. but it's a reality of my schedule that sometimes I won't be able to respond for two days or so☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-18 03:51 trinque is peeling back the layers trying to see what gpg is cranky about. meanwhile, why'd the (defpackage :v ...) go away?
esthlos: if I need to be able to respond within a day to work with you guys, I will do my best to change things around
esthlos: but you should know that, new as I am, it takes me a long time to even get through one day of log while understanding what is going on
esthlos: now for your comments: getting rid of the defpackage was a bad oversight, no real reason. My guess why gpg is failing is because I'm using 2.2.4 while I think most of you guys use 1.x . Moving to 1.x is on my backlog, but it was deprioritized becasue I didn't want to spend the time converting my keys. Another oversight, I suppose
esthlos: now I'm going to go through the logs and see if I've missed anything else. let me know what you've done on http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1815850 so we don't double spend on time. and to sum it up, yeah, my bad on the communication☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 03:04 trinque: since I haven't heard from you, I'm proceeding with these changes myself
asciilifeform: esthlos: you don't need to convert keys to switch from 2.x to 1.x
asciilifeform: they use same format
Mocky: mircea_popescu, http://trilema.com/2018/eulora%e2%80%99s-communication-protocol-restated/#comment-125734
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1815935 << i'ma give it a proper look☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 15:23 mircea_popescu: asciilifeform, (and i guess apeloyee, if tuned in) : i'll be most interested in theoretical attacks of the proposed scheme.
esthlos: asciilifeform: yep, just did it, thanks.
trinque: esthlos: nobody here is using a 2.x gpg
trinque: and yes, your approach is inadequate. gotta read all the logs since your last visit.
asciilifeform: trinque: very early on, i actually had it, but it was 100% painless to switch away from
asciilifeform: ( which i did when mircea_popescu published his archived 1.4.10 tarball )
trinque: sure, just describing current state of affairs.
trinque: there is a 1.4.something preserved in a deed
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu's
esthlos: oh wow, the gpg behaivor is...special
asciilifeform: trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2015-10-10#1295983 << for ref☝︎
a111: Logged on 2015-10-10 12:08 mircea_popescu: deedbot- http://trilema.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/gnupg-1.4.10.tar.gz.asc
esthlos: think I see why it's breaking
trinque: esthlos: I'd rather let you perform whatever changes to this thing, so I can keep working with gentoo entrails.
esthlos: works for me
trinque: just driving at using the logs in a particular manner, so threads build towards more coherence. working in isolation, v-in-my-head disjoins from v-in-yours.
trinque: I really like how this thing is coming together, ftr, and can't wait to start using it with portage.
esthlos: in case anyone missed these lulz: if you pass --no-default-keyring to gpg but don't supply another keyring, gpg... uses the default keyring. and if you pass a keyring, it assumes it's in the home directory
trinque: woof. so it was trying $home/tmp/whatever ?
esthlos: glad to hear it!
esthlos: yep
mod6: sooo... trinque, is the neg-rating on douchebag going to stand? because mircea_popescu has rented him a rockchip (right?) and according to the rules we laid out, I think we said that douchebag would be removed from access to the hardware.
mod6: mircea_popescu: thoughts?
trinque: what do you mean by "going to stand" ?
mod6: Is this a 'forever -1'?
trinque: I really don't like the idea of negotiating with anyone on what my ratings shall be
mod6: This is not a negotiation. Just asking what the deal is. Cause Pizarro is going to end up removing him from the hardware.
douchebag: I just need to set up an mpwp blog and post the work I already have done
trinque: if you follow the log lines I referenced back, you'll see exactly why I did it.
mod6: Ok forget I asked.
trinque: if you press me on terms I'll remove the -1, you risk creating a mommyprocess anyone with a negrate can appeal to.
mod6: mircea_popescu: how should Pizarro handle this, in your opinion, given the last conversation about this?
douchebag: I already have a webserver running on my pizarro box. I just don't know how I'm supposed to unpack mpwp
mod6: trinque: I only asked you, not as an appeal process, personally I couldn't care less. However, just wondering if you are going to remove that rating should the man do whatever in the next say day or two, whatever.
trinque: I think "nobody does business with any L1-negrated party" is a bit strict. folks need to be able to beat someone over the head with disapproval without removing their ability to take part in society by having done so.
mod6: This is what mircea_popescu wanted it to be, regardles.
mod6: *regardless.
trinque: mod6: if I tell you, I'm giving someone I'm already punishing for weaselbehavior a defined mechanism to weasel further
mod6: This is fine, my thinking is that he will be removed. If the rating changes at some point, then we will reconsider allowing him to be a customer.
douchebag: ./v.pl p v mpwp mp-wp_genesis.vpatch
douchebag: HEAD: mp-wp_genesis.vpatch not found in flow
trinque: (this is not even to mention that either he or the other guy was contacting me as tittynicks asking when their money will be sent, lol)
trinque: douchebag: since I can read, I can see a spurious "v" in that command
mod6: that's fine trinque -- the extra 'v' is for 'verbose' mode.
trinque: ah, alright
mod6: it's not found in the flow because something is either wrong with the signature of the vpatch, or the signatory is not in the current wot.
douchebag: okay, that makes sense
trinque: if douchebag wants to appeal to me directly, he can.
douchebag: !!key hanbot
deedbot: http://wot.deedbot.org/EA0FAD90985B3025576A5061454B0FC0BC07B87E.asc
esthlos: to butt in: should only patches with good seals show in the flow?
mod6: yes.
trinque: mod6: contracts often have a cure period, eh? suppose it's "negrated party has $time to fix his reputation"
esthlos: ok, will fix that
mod6: There is no contract here. I don't want to ask anyone about their ratings. Perhaps I shouldn't have asked what I asked there above.
mod6: Was just trying to avoid (perhaps stupidly) some Pizarro gyrations.
mod6: Because I don't want us to ever ask someone about things such as this; their rating of someone.
trinque: the intent here is to force him to make good on his word. earlier he said the rockchip was going to be a tool to get acquainted with trb, and now it's http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1815869☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 03:43 douchebag: Alright, I can have that done in the next week or so. I'm currently using the rockchip box to host a webpage to troll someone, so I want the lulz there to continue to it's full potential
trinque: because dick-pulling comes before the republic. immature bullshit to be weeded out.
trinque: mod6: I don't mean there's an actual contract, just referencing the notion of "cure period"
mod6: And what I should have said is: In light of the douchebag being neg-rated by a someone, a TMSR~ Lord especially, douchebag will be removed from access. This may change if his status changes.
trinque: mod6: since his remedy involves access to a place to post the report, I'll give it until the end of the day, which is ample time to get a blog up and a post (even incomplete, so what) up.
trinque: !!unrate douchebag
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/wRuOP/?raw=true
trinque: !!v 288B82ED7F03FDE3B82AC90AF53DD317F0836E94B04B6F1EE0B85AAC26049E39
deedbot: trinque unrated douchebag.
mod6: Well... see, this is not really how it should be. Don't let ole mod6 talk ya down.
trinque: douchebag: tomorrow comes and no post, negrated and that's that.
mod6: Tomorrow is in like what... 6 hours? Or you mean CDT?
trinque: mod6: the example's illustrated for logs, and now e can discuss it
trinque: *we
trinque: mod6: means from where my butt sits, if it's tomorrow, I pull the trigger. so get crackin
douchebag: http://161.0.121.194/
mod6: Alright, sounds good trinque.
douchebag: I need to get a domain now, and get mpwp setup
douchebag: right now, I just threw that up so that I have something at least
mod6: lol, looks like v worked 'eh?
douchebag: No, I'm trying to figure out what I'm doing wrong right now
mod6: What is it complainig about? Btw, I'm not sure that this projct even works with my version of V.
lobbes: re wot: I mean, the serenity of leveraging the wot, imho, is that it is a purely individual-to-individual thing by design. In this case, you have Pizarro (P) who has customer relationships with MP and D. D has been negrated by T on the basis of Tx. MP can either decide 1) Tx means enough to request P get rid of D, in which case P now determines if it values MP or D moar, or 2) MP decides Tx does not mean enough to request P get rid of D.
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-03#1808182☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-03 18:27 mod6: anyone? or any TMSR lord?
douchebag: gonna buy a domain right now
danielpbarron: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1816003 << it's not always wrong to ask about ratings (that is, asking if they can be changed) -- see: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-03-29#1790898☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 18:16 mod6: Because I don't want us to ever ask someone about things such as this; their rating of someone.
a111: Logged on 2018-03-29 14:37 mircea_popescu: anyway, whadda ya think mod6 , can we get him back to positive rating ?
trinque: wasn't that about the same guy?
danielpbarron: yep
douchebag: do you guys think douchebag.press is a good domain name?
mod6: yeah, alf had him negrated for snr
mod6: douchebag: fine by me, whatever works best for ya. could be: goatraper.com for all i car.
mod6: *care
danielpbarron: i also have him at -1 for mouthing off to me in the eftard channel
mod6: and further, not even sure why you need a domain. (unless for some reason wp-mp doesn't work without one)
trinque cares not; phf had just an IP for a long while
douchebag: If I'm going to run a blog, wouldn't it make sense to have a domain name that's easy to remember?
mod6: Depends on the audience maybe.
trinque: and douchebag, sounds like you have another lord from whom to ask forgiveness; pizarro account is still in peril
trinque: if danielpbarron has negrated
mod6: !!reputation douchebag
deedbot: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/mbt8A/?raw=true
trinque: hm, ben_vulpes also
mod6: and esthlos
danielpbarron: looks like mp and lobbes more than balance it out though. +2 from each
mod6: true, but "any lord".
trinque: the rule is any lord.
danielpbarron: hm, ok
mod6: fwiw, i didn't even know ben_vulpes neg'd him :D
trinque: this is a pretty shitty reputation all around.
mod6: well, i probably saw at one point, but forgot o.O
danielpbarron: i'm not married to the rating, will consider arguments
douchebag: danielpbarron: what's the exact reason you negrated me?
danielpbarron: you're a douchebag
douchebag: that's my name
mod6: I would say, focus on trinque's task list. Then read back on the other neg ratings given and see if some repair can be done to your wot-status.
mod6: I'll be around for a bit if you need some help with v.pl.
danielpbarron: i don't know exacts, but you were talking back to me over in lrh around the same time you were polluting snr in here, and my +1 was preventing others from !!downing you
douchebag: https://i.imgur.com/q91y37j.png
mod6: mother of god.
mod6: ok try this: ./v.pl f pd mpwp
mod6: see what it tells you
douchebag: it ran the command, no output. going to try verbose
mod6: crud, one sec. im guessing you have a separate .seals dir for the mpwp vpatch too right?
mod6: cause you will need that.
douchebag: https://i.imgur.com/4W4mBwq.png
douchebag: no, i'll create that right now
mod6: then the command would be like: ./v.pl f pd mpwp sd .mpwp-seals
mod6: or whatever you named the different seals dir.
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1815871 << Tuesday I was on the bus and we went past and ambulance. Behind the ambulance was an old lady bleeding profusely from the head, head propped up on... CARDBOARD.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 03:43 mircea_popescu: if that guy's not wearing brown underwear now...
danielpbarron: douchebag, curl "http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/5Eger/?raw=true" > ~/wotpaste ; chmod +x ~/wotpaste
BingoBoingo: I assume she was hit while wandering aimlessly in traffic as the zombies tend to do here
mod6: When you see it in the flow, then you should be good. Then you'll have to do : ./v.pl p v mpwp mp-wp_genesis.vpatch pd mpwp sd .mpwp-seals
douchebag: okay, I think it's working! yay
douchebag: https://i.imgur.com/xMuGhxe.png
mod6: yeah, my v doesn't work with that thing.
mod6: this is what brought on the whole thing about phf doing his v stuffs or whatever.
mod6: hanbot: how are you currently pressing mpwp, what tools should douchebag use for this?
mod6: so douchebag: nope that's not working, if it fails like that, just blow away your press dir, whatever is there is no good.
mod6: in a pinch -- you could always try to just : `patch -F 0 -E -p1 < mp-wp_genesis.vpatch` in some directory and just inflate the thing.
mod6: but this is strictly un-republican, and un-verified.
mod6: 'heathen-istic method'
lobbes: mod6: re pizarro wot policy: so you're saying positive lordly ratings do not cancel out negative lordly ratings? i.e. rule is simply: "any lordly negrate disualifies?"
mod6: Read that log post that I pasted above. That is the current rule.
diana_coman: lobbes, there is no positive cancels negative; for starters, it's not a sum
mod6: douchebag: scroll up, said somethings, or just check the log
diana_coman: mod6, my reading is that pizarro does business with mp here though, not with douchebag
lobbes: diana_coman: ah okay. gotcha
BingoBoingo: If I recall it was MP that rented the rockchip for douchebag.
mod6: This is overall dubious then. If someone scams me, and I neg-rate them, but their mircea_popescu's person in question, then what?
diana_coman: then you go and talk to mircea_popescu , yes
diana_coman: what does otherwise "it's mircea_popescu's person" mean?
mod6: Pizarro shall follow the rule and remove access to that scammer. Simple as that.
diana_coman: well yes, but first and foremost: what does it meant then "it's X's person"?
BingoBoingo: mod6: But in the case the negrated fellow isn't leasing the chip. MP is.
mod6: This is all why this discussion is needed. Because it's a pretty inflexible rule, as it stands.
mod6: diana_coman: i simply mean, mircea_popescu rented the thing for the guy. 'tis all.
BingoBoingo: If you have been disenfranchised, the case is that yes, you have to have others do thing for you because you can't (MP in the case of leasing the rockchip douchebag uses)
diana_coman: ^^
mod6: could have been you, renting it for person X. Person X is under your wing, so to speak.
BingoBoingo: <mod6> diana_coman: i simply mean, mircea_popescu rented the thing for the guy. 'tis all. << MP rented the thing because the guy can't
BingoBoingo: <mod6> could have been you, renting it for person X. Person X is under your wing, so to speak. << At your mercy is more like it
lobbes: mod6: ah okay. logline you originally posted was phrased as a question, but reading further I see now that it resolves to the 'negrate from -any one- lord disqualifies': http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-03#1808202☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-03 18:30 mircea_popescu: but logically, would you really want to rent your garage to anyone ANY of your friends think is no good ?
lobbes: makes sense
mod6: So, what we're saying then is, if someone rents a box for someone else, and that someone else gets neg-rated, then it's up to the renter to figure it out? What if the renter says, "hey fuck what pizarro and its customers think". Does Pizarro not have a say in it's own customer usage then?
diana_coman: mod6, you do have a say; but you have your say with the one paying for the box!
douchebag: Well, I have a blog post. It's not complete and mpwp isn't installed yet.
mod6: I agree, which why, if you read above, I'm posing the question to our customer, mircea_popescu.
douchebag: But right now I'm setting up nginx + php + mysql on the bbox
mod6: He'll let us know, which is fine. But overall, it's best to try to get a clear understanding of how to handle these now.
mod6: douchebag: you just happen to be the first one. That's all, could have been anyone.
douchebag: Forsure, I should have got to working on this earlier. I've just been incredibly busy lately with finals for college, work, and preparing to move overseas in about 2.5 weeks
mod6: WoT is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans.
douchebag: https://i.imgur.com/JMM0nah.png
mod6: for god sake man, please, just learn how to use p.bvulpes.com.
mod6: Did you ever set the system time?
douchebag: No I didn't
mod6: Because shit will go sideways unless you do.
mod6: Do that, then try again.
mod6: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-03#1808420 << note what asciilifeform says below that too☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-03 20:19 mod6: Don't be like me, set your system time, first thing, diana_coman.
esthlos: trinque etc: do you want an eggog when flow fails because of bad seal on a vpatch? or let's be more general: do you want an eggog WHENEVER a bad seal is found?
mod6: yes, should error immediately. thats what mine does anyway.
esthlos: ok, and to that point, should EVERY operation spitting out vpatches (flow, antecedents, and so on) check all vpatches for sig?
mod6: yes.
esthlos: mmk, thanks
trinque: yep, totally.
mod6: for instance, my thing basically checks all people in the current wot, then verifies the seals based upon the current wot, then build a map, from which I build a flow. then all operations take place fro mthat.
trinque bbl
esthlos: yep mod6, that's effectively what I'll be doing.
esthlos: bbl, meatspace
mod6: well, not always based on flow, but it might be, depending on the operation, otherwise the map is used to traverse, sometimes.
esthlos: ah true, no point in generating flow for antecedents, etc
mod6: right.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1815938 << depends what you do, but not generally ~needed~, even though obviously the faster you move the faster oyu move. but -- the highlight name point is sound.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 16:03 esthlos: if I need to be able to respond within a day to work with you guys, I will do my best to change things around
douchebag: would anyone mind chatting with me via PM so I don't shit up the logs asking questions about how to get everything on this gentoo box sorted? I have minimal expereince working with gentoo so I have quite a few questions
mod6: is it specifically about the rockchip? or v?
mod6: let's take the rockchip discussion into #pizarro
douchebag: okay
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1815940 << 2.x is specifically blacklisted. can't use that.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 16:08 esthlos: now for your comments: getting rid of the defpackage was a bad oversight, no real reason. My guess why gpg is failing is because I'm using 2.2.4 while I think most of you guys use 1.x . Moving to 1.x is on my backlog, but it was deprioritized becasue I didn't want to spend the time converting my keys. Another oversight, I suppose
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1815945 << i actually get the comments rss feed as pms from deedbot, so i never miss any. tip top feature.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 16:39 Mocky: mircea_popescu, http://trilema.com/2018/eulora%e2%80%99s-communication-protocol-restated/#comment-125734
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1815950 << if he doesn't actually aim to lordship, i suppose he could get away with reading his highlighs and their context only.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 16:44 trinque: and yes, your approach is inadequate. gotta read all the logs since your last visit.
deedbot: http://qntra.net/2018/05/german-cartoonist-fired-by-paper-that-published-his-jew-cartoon/ << Qntra - German Cartoonist Fired By Paper That Published His Jew Cartoon
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1815978 << honestly i don't fucking know. it's all uncharted territory / shit we came up with.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 18:01 mod6: mircea_popescu: how should Pizarro handle this, in your opinion, given the last conversation about this?
mircea_popescu: while i can appreciate http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1815977 ; it seems unavoidable that in fact peri-rating negotiations will be a fact of life ; only weren't historically because historically the importance of ratings was relatively small (even if ever growing).☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 18:01 trinque: if you press me on terms I'll remove the -1, you risk creating a mommyprocess anyone with a negrate can appeal to.
mircea_popescu: ~technically~ pizarro is blocked (rather, protected) from the need to act by, indeed as pointed out, i having rented it in my own name. "for him" or not, pizarro's not held to care. but this was a palliative in place specifically because i expected something in this vein, the fellow is very phenomena-driven, sorta like the brains of frogs only work when there's ligjht bombarding the retinas and thereby powering the rest of th
mircea_popescu: e cortex.
hanbot: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-19#1815751 << sure, in theory. in practice i imagine heaps of e.g. http://btcbase.org/log/2016-10-24#1558640 and "we can't/won't communicate off our phnojesy app du jour", but it's not impossible some folks go hoping to be rescued eh.☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-19 20:43 mircea_popescu: hanbot, feel like going sometime ?
a111: Logged on 2016-10-24 19:19 hanbot: http://log.mkj.lt/trilema/20161024/#103 << i was actually gonna check out some "linux chix" meeting at the local red hat hole when i noticed 'pre-registration with documento' was required, you know, for 'security'.
scriba: Logged on 2016-10-24: [16:27:02] <mircea_popescu> these and other tips and tricks brought to you by red hat entreprise security department.
hanbot: http://thewhet.net/2018/04/panama-makes-me-ill/ << and then there's the sort of "bitcoin embassy" denizens i imagine abounding, whose ideas of security/tech whatever boil down to "we've got these here tshirts, herp"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1815981 << iirc it was never quite this strict hence http://btcbase.org/log/2018-04-19#1802711 / http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-03#1808202☝︎☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 18:03 trinque: I think "nobody does business with any L1-negrated party" is a bit strict. folks need to be able to beat someone over the head with disapproval without removing their ability to take part in society by having done so.
a111: Logged on 2018-04-19 01:36 mircea_popescu: ascii_lander, it's not a firm "no trading with bozos" ; seems to me you appreciate the distinction between selling an item and selling hosting in other contexts. people that are willing to take your cash payment upfront for a piece of hard candy might nevertheless not agree to rent you their garage.
a111: Logged on 2018-05-03 18:30 mircea_popescu: but logically, would you really want to rent your garage to anyone ANY of your friends think is no good ?
mircea_popescu: but if you're looking for actionable practicalia, you could do something like, "well, we'll consider the matter whenever it becomes salient. such as when someone complains ; or when issuing invoices. we just won't invoice people with neg ratings, and they can sort it out."
mircea_popescu: should be low effort enough.
mod6: mircea_popescu: ah, thanks for the quick responses here.
mircea_popescu: hanbot, haha, a case of ymmv huh.
mod6: I think that may be a workable solution.
hanbot: yeah. in short, i'm not averse to trying, and now and then do dive in the soup to see. i pretty much emerge with piss variously lodged in my eyesockets and zero pearls.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1815984 << hence the "only part missing is installing mpwp" solution, which in itself is lulzy. BUT, the sad fact of the matter is, trinque , that the beginnings of education and the refusal of education are strictly indistinguishable. let's leave this be and consider the case of girly in http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-19#1815550 : if i were to reject her on the basis of her initial advances☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 18:04 trinque: mod6: if I tell you, I'm giving someone I'm already punishing for weaselbehavior a defined mechanism to weasel further
a111: Logged on 2018-05-19 17:13 mircea_popescu: a right right, i forgot that part! kalash == maitenance is an act of love and devotion, not a matter of necessity. this is deeper than it sounds, consider this recent exchange : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/NQRtP/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: being inept (and by inept we mean, exactly wrong), nobody could ever make it in.
mircea_popescu: in other words : providing someone being punished for weaselbehaviour with a specified mechanism to weasel further helps them by removing the ~defining~ of the weaselbehaviour from their hands, which is the first step towards becoming sane already.
deedbot: http://www.thedrinkingrecord.com/2018/05/20/how-do-you-want-to-be-memorialized/ << Bingo Blog - How Do You Want To Be Memorialized?
hanbot: danielpbarron when you have a moment please post yer wp-comments-post.php for me.
hanbot: <mod6> hanbot: how are you currently pressing mpwp, what tools should douchebag use for this? << pressed with http://barksinthewind.com/2018/vtools-keccak-regrind/ (only those patches on the left branch of http://btcbase.org/patches?patchset=vtools&search= ).
mircea_popescu: here's a direct sample in this vein : http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/4xtpc/?raw=true . for most children, the first experience with negative reinforcement comes through their attempt to manipulate the processes around to avoid negative reinforcement.
mod6: hanbot: awesome, thanks!
mircea_popescu: and boy howdy, does anyone on earth, including its subinept management, derive more fucking value from the fetlife holding pens than yours truly.
mod6: douchebag: you'll have to follow what hanbot is posting here for that mpwp part.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1815989 << no, that's verbose.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 18:07 trinque: douchebag: since I can read, I can see a spurious "v" in that command
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1815997 << that's the whole point ; ~however~ the thinking is that the user should be warned (and pressing should stop) if there are invalid signatures in his .seals dir, ~because~ it is not expected he'd have put them there, so something needs humnan eyes.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 18:13 esthlos: to butt in: should only patches with good seals show in the flow?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1816001 << i don't see how it could have been avoided. sooner or later it was coming up, so why not sooner.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 18:15 mod6: There is no contract here. I don't want to ask anyone about their ratings. Perhaps I shouldn't have asked what I asked there above.
mod6: yeah, exactly. glad I brought it up. our first test of this.
mircea_popescu: and you most definitely ~can~ ask anyone about their rating. the whole fucking thing is built on nothing besides this, http://trilema.com/2014/what-the-wot-is-for-how-it-works-and-how-to-use-it/#selection-131.113-131.167
mod6: lol, "if it were not for your ``friends'' I would think that this was a normal chat site"
mircea_popescu: whether you can lean on people to chainge their ratings is iffier, and very much depends on your relationship. but the logs are full of this also.
mircea_popescu: mod6, "i got friends... they're multiplyin'... an' i'm loooosin'... control!"
mod6: *nod*
mircea_popescu: " you gotta shape up..."
BingoBoingo: Anyways there is a difference between a "-1 inquire within" and a "-10 social death sentence"
mod6: Sure, BingoBoingo. Just a solid test case against the rule formulated earlier. That's all this is.
mod6: Better to hash it out now, than to be surprised later.
mod6: lol mircea_popescu, I haven't heard that song in quite a while.
mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J01QPxZFlw4 :D
mod6: <+mircea_popescu> http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1815989 << no, that's verbose. << this is awesome☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 18:07 trinque: douchebag: since I can read, I can see a spurious "v" in that command
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1816006 << i'm not even sure he has a clear distinction between the two ; and amusingly enough that difference, whether present, it's not even a fundamental. it only emerges from context.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 18:17 trinque: because dick-pulling comes before the republic. immature bullshit to be weeded out.
mircea_popescu: mod6, lol, what ?
mod6: You've read the docs & use my vtron enough to know this!
mircea_popescu: no, i just expect v is verbose everywhere, and know it's in your case by that sure sign, that i've not bitched at you about it! :D
mod6: hahaha, fair enough.
mircea_popescu: fucking retarded grep uses it as "invert pattern", bloody hell.
mod6: right?!
mircea_popescu: who the fuck headshat that one!
mod6: on that note, am I the only one that didn't know that grep returns (technically) an error if something doens't match your pattern?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1816009 << if he manages to stand up a blog in a day i'll fucking fall over.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 18:20 trinque: mod6: since his remedy involves access to a place to post the report, I'll give it until the end of the day, which is ample time to get a blog up and a post (even incomplete, so what) up.
danielpbarron: hanbot, http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/DVVhZ/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: mod6, if nothing does, you mean ?
danielpbarron: i think the only change i made there is <code> to <pre> on the gpg thing
mod6: Ah yeah. If i grep for "foo" and it isn't found. It just hands you back your shell. Which I just always thought "oh, nothing found". But this is actually a non-zero return code.
mod6: Learned that about a week ago, and felt preeeety sheepish.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1816023 << ahaha check that out. hey douchebag , is that list complete ? :D☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 18:23 douchebag: right now, I just threw that up so that I have something at least
mircea_popescu: (i don't mean, "i can't read headings, help me out" ; i mean : for the present headings, are these all the vulns known ? by ~whom~ (ie, what source used) ?)
mircea_popescu: mod6, tons of annoying grep-captured scripts out there to handle the nothing found case.
mod6: Ah ya.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1816034 << amusingly enough, yes!☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 18:28 trinque: wasn't that about the same guy?
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1816036 << sounds great, actually.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 18:29 douchebag: do you guys think douchebag.press is a good domain name?
mircea_popescu: i had nfi they made a .press tld ; i expect they made it for the "journalism", but of course that being dead and presses being a thing...
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1816041 << does not specifically need one, but hey.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 18:30 mod6: and further, not even sure why you need a domain. (unless for some reason wp-mp doesn't work without one)
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1816056 << dang, he sure got well banged up, didn't he. yo douchebag , why do you have so much trouble working with people ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 18:34 trinque: this is a pretty shitty reputation all around.
mod6: Yeah, I've got domains, makes it easier. But yah, not specifically required.
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1816065 << normally i'd have said "don't use fucking screencaps wtf is wrong with you", but in this case i doubt a proper paste could have risen to the required heights of lul.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 18:38 douchebag: https://i.imgur.com/q91y37j.png
mod6: To be fair on that point, I would have asked him for approx the same information.
mod6: douchebag: A few finer points on the matter. 1] p.bvulpes.com pastes are archived (thanks lobbes!), which help for future trips through old logs. 2] Not everyone who can help is always on a machine with a gui capable of viewing images.
mod6: Thanks all, I'll bbl, gotta do a few chores.
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-19#1815722 << I give up, is it "when it is locked?"☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-19 20:21 mircea_popescu: btw lobbes, let me ask you this : when is a door not a door ?
lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1815918 << It actually never occured to me to use the "many OTPs stored for later use" trick that trinque mentioned, which is pretty spiffy indeed (I may start doing just this). But to answer your question: lobbesbot's only involvement in my archive process is to listen to irc and insert urls it comes across into a sqlite3 db. That database is then 'shipped off' to separ☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 12:02 spyked: lobbes, I am curious: how do you have lobbesbot self-voice then? do you do it manually?
lobbes: ate box for processing
douchebag: mircea_popescu: As far as source used, I'm using https://cve.mitre.org/
danielpbarron: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1816246 << when it is "ajar"☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 20:49 lobbes: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-19#1815722 << I give up, is it "when it is locked?"
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron, aha. well, "when it is a jar", but yes
lobbes: aha
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1816079 << i expect. you should see these idiots, biking with no lights, dressed in camuflage gear (srsly dorky, black shit because white's too hard to wash, still see no reason you shouldn't be out at night ?) on the side of the fucking highway. what, problem ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 18:42 BingoBoingo: I assume she was hit while wandering aimlessly in traffic as the zombies tend to do here
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1816090 << depends the rule for what. but no, generally the fact that you're dearly beloved by the baker doesn't "cancel out" your raping the plumber's daugther.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 18:48 lobbes: mod6: re pizarro wot policy: so you're saying positive lordly ratings do not cancel out negative lordly ratings? i.e. rule is simply: "any lordly negrate disualifies?"
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1816097 << the reason this exists is because you have no way around the http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-03#1808200 ; guy could just register a new name, get a rating from anyone willing to, and there you go.☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 18:50 mod6: This is overall dubious then. If someone scams me, and I neg-rate them, but their mircea_popescu's person in question, then what?
a111: Logged on 2018-05-03 18:30 asciilifeform: i suppose if adlai or karpeles or whoever wants to put on a mask and pretend to be a eulora-playing tits chix for years, there's no real damage
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1816104 << you only know this as a courtesy, it's not something you can rely on knowing.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 18:52 mod6: diana_coman: i simply mean, mircea_popescu rented the thing for the guy. 'tis all.
mircea_popescu: trinque, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/A0dYe/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: !!rated Mocky
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated Mocky 2 at 2018/05/03 19:07:05 << remarkably mentally organized eulora noob.
mircea_popescu: Mocky, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/fAFNU/?raw=true
trinque: mircea_popescu: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/STAkJ/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: and in other 2018s, guess what's dead ? sourceforge. https://archive.is/WFvmU
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: sadly not dead; merely ( and along with growing list of assorted usg.derps ) blocks the bot
Mocky: mircea_popescu, i'm fine with that
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1816065 http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1816072 etc << this crapola doesn't even display properly on my terminal, and i refuse to fiddle with it to read it, d00d was warned repeatedly to stop spewing nonsearchable, nontextrenderable screenshit liquishit , and yet persists☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 18:38 douchebag: https://i.imgur.com/q91y37j.png
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 18:40 douchebag: https://i.imgur.com/4W4mBwq.png
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1816096 << it was☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 18:50 BingoBoingo: If I recall it was MP that rented the rockchip for douchebag.
asciilifeform: i for one have noticed no symptoms of educability , thus far, in douchebag . but he's not my pupil, he's mircea_popescu's , when mircea_popescu has had his fill, he will throw him out .
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1816251 << classic example of the 'frog brain' ( http://btcbase.org/log/2018-05-20#1816160 ) . i.e. as if we have no hands and could not use search engine, and it had to wait for him.☝︎☝︎
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 20:57 douchebag: mircea_popescu: As far as source used, I'm using https://cve.mitre.org/
a111: Logged on 2018-05-20 19:49 mircea_popescu: ~technically~ pizarro is blocked (rather, protected) from the need to act by, indeed as pointed out, i having rented it in my own name. "for him" or not, pizarro's not held to care. but this was a palliative in place specifically because i expected something in this vein, the fellow is very phenomena-driven, sorta like the brains of frogs only work when there's ligjht bombarding the retinas and thereby powering the rest of th
asciilifeform: in unrelated noose, http://www.good-display.com << possibly world's slowest commercial www ( chinese parts supplier asciilifeform was trying to search catalogue of ) , it makes ~version 1~ phuctor seem fast by comparison
mircea_popescu: !!rate Mocky 3 Mocky Habeeb. Wrote a book on Amazon DB ; works for infraWise (which is pretty lulzy, but don't hold it against him).
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/0KsCj/?raw=true
mircea_popescu: does the guy have the coolest name or what.
Mocky: ^ said nobody, ever
mircea_popescu: really ?~
mircea_popescu: why the hell not ?
Mocky: being a Habeeb has been hell, since 9/11. I quit flying cuz of the "special pat down" treatment. I guess TSA loves that name tho, lol
mircea_popescu: heh.
mircea_popescu: i dunno, maybe time to leave mordor ?
Mocky: that would be nice. I haven't looked at foreign job prospects. I guess you'd call me ESL
Mocky: I don't think my pending invention of inverted waffle iron plates is going to make me rich
mircea_popescu: hey, i got good news for you : a) BingoBoingo escaped to uruguay on the strength of pizarro ; and diana_coman started her s.mg career as an effectual player.