phf: i misspelled something in btcbase search and was surprised when it didn't "search instead for ..." me.
asciilifeform: lul
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo afaik that's a chinese brand.
mircea_popescu: !~later tell framedragger hey log ded ?
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: The operation succeeded.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: his client disconnected earlier
mircea_popescu: ah k
ben_vulpes: there is always http://logs.bvulpes.com/trilema
mircea_popescu: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629992 << actually "segwit" is supported, and fully implemented / working without bugs since what, 2015 ? look up deedbot.org☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-20 23:27 lulcoinz: my understanding is this group doesn't really support segwit or BU
ben_vulpes: and also phf's actually-useful btcbase
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yeah i have like one per machine over here :D
mircea_popescu: redundancy ftw, it's so luxurious. who the fuck else has shit like this, not even lizard captains.
mircea_popescu: in the same vein : new dork (at least i've not seen him before) with apparent delusions of "management" at place i normally frequent. i tell him to bring me a dozen empanadas para llevar. he... didn't understand, at first, then on second pass told me to go to "the different counter", then got invited to go search for his mother's cunt, which rendered him apoplectic. /me went to other place down the street he also frequents, g
mircea_popescu: ot his empanadas as well as open invite from waitress who's apparently been waiting for moths for the one time mp is not with cunt in tow.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1630030 << we had a thread where mp's said something like "i don't have rsi because i'm literate".☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-20 23:38 asciilifeform: ( emacs -- and ~unfixably -- has few useful SINGLE-KEY commands )
phf: i've been reflecting on the implications of that point with one of the effects that i stopped using emacs (a while ago).
mircea_popescu: o.O
asciilifeform: ooh hey phf retired from massaging bits, or wat
asciilifeform: ( re: quit emacs )
mircea_popescu subscribes to this thread, curios how it'll go.
phf: well, i realized that environment micro optimizations are mostly a waste of time, and that something like emacs is one of the worst offenders.
asciilifeform: ( unrelatedly, phf , the ivory2 appears to be back on auction )
asciilifeform: phf: this is not untrue, but i'll be damned if i EVER consider hitting a key 70times in a row, a legitimate part of life, ever.
asciilifeform: ( see 'hungry arrow keys' thread etc )
asciilifeform: and i've no interest in not having SLIME
asciilifeform: and yes emacs is a glue trap.
mircea_popescu: there is this very specific failure mode whereby computerists who for naive reasons decide "they don't play computer games" end up game-ifying their daily life. it is way the fuck better to level up a warlock than to dick around "saving" typing and growing a crop of tomatoes on your balcony.
phf: ^
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the ancients did write 'moderation in all things', neh.
mircea_popescu: they do.
mircea_popescu: but rare indeed is the computerhead who will sit down and compare the time "improvement" takes to implement CORRECTLY, AND MAINTAIN ; vs the time it actually saves.
asciilifeform: fwiw i turn a knob or two in .emacs , every other year or so.
phf: this whole "literate" point is not so much about specific technology, as it is about rebalancing the tree from the root, so to speak, wherein it's sometimes ok to push the key 70 times
asciilifeform: usually when i end up picking up entirely new system ( most recently -- ada )
mircea_popescu: i know some clits i don't mind pushing 707 times.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: dunno about yours, on my kbd there is not a clit..
asciilifeform: repetitive mechanical work -- suxx.
mircea_popescu: come along now an' let's play that strange game where errything's a key!
asciilifeform: 'where is the anykey?!!1'
mircea_popescu: i wish someone here made a garage band so i could write lyrics for them.
asciilifeform: 'аникей'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform pity nobody named his daughter that.
mircea_popescu: "i'm annie" "from anna ?" "no, from аникей"
asciilifeform: lol!!
ben_vulpes: this is a subset of the "programmers are bad at cost/benefit evaluation" thread
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: they ~have~ to be
mircea_popescu: more like, "whores are bad at finding non-slippery solutions."
asciilifeform: think.
mircea_popescu: carpenter is likely to make you wooden dam.
ben_vulpes: for example, somehow dropbox let its engineers haul off and do an open-sores python reimplementation
ben_vulpes: which they since abandoned
ben_vulpes: because "go back to your fucking cubicle and file a purchase request for seven more servers"
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes do you know what is the real because there ?
ben_vulpes: no, please to illuminate
mircea_popescu: it all relies on the almighthy IDF. investor dream fuel. dja know what that is ?
mircea_popescu: it's exactly like nightmare fuel in media. a substance that makes people with money and no clue imagine happy thoughts.
mircea_popescu: large companies without a point or purpose adrift in economic anomie essentialy become IDF packagers.
asciilifeform: naggum called it,
asciilifeform: 'imponade'
mircea_popescu: and the hope is that who knows, maybe the dorks come back with some idf. in any case, up until they return, the thread can be deemed as idf as-is.
mircea_popescu: "we have engineers doing things|! " "What ?" "we don't actually know." "here's some money then."
ben_vulpes: ick
mircea_popescu: ick but tru.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform imponade, not bad.
mircea_popescu: like the lemonade of the proverbial lemonade stand that's always used as example in theoretical economics.
ben_vulpes: ick and squick
ben_vulpes off
asciilifeform: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3207123764972938@naggum.net.html
asciilifeform: phf: i'm still curious re with what you replaced emacs.
asciilifeform: really, closing parens and indenting by hand..?
mircea_popescu: You may, and some do, complain that there is no super-compact expression of some particular problems, but what you completely miss is that the _penalty_ for thinking "outside of the box" or outside of the "intended" uses of the language is _also_ absent.
mircea_popescu: excellently put.
mircea_popescu: anyway, the difference between imponade and the idf is that the imponade relies on failure of those imponed upon to evaluate ; whereas the idf relies on the fundamental problem of the cost of evaluation -- sometimes it's huge.
mircea_popescu: ie, it's one thing to tell yokel your apple's a mango, it's another thing to claim your apple cures sun eclypse.
mircea_popescu: in practice though, this theoretical distinction carries little importance.
shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-21#1630102 <<< Amen☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-21 00:49 mircea_popescu: i know some clits i don't mind pushing 707 times.
mircea_popescu: (though it's a welcome exercise, in passing, to consider HOW would you rigurously prove an apple doesn't cure sun eclipse.)
asciilifeform: if cost of evaluation were huge because the activity consisted of travel to uncharted asteroids -- that'd be one thing.
mircea_popescu: well it claims to :)
asciilifeform: but it consists of pumping liquishit from one vessel to another.
mircea_popescu: hence all the "uncharted lands" references all the time.
asciilifeform: ( the other, obligatory naggum re subj, http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3233532779857997@naggum.net.html , i.e. 'is your work expensive and uncertain because you drill 5km into ocean floor
asciilifeform: .
asciilifeform: ?
asciilifeform: .. or because idiot?'
mircea_popescu: the matrices one ?
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu regrets naggum.
asciilifeform: what means 'regrets x'
mircea_popescu: that i'd rather he had a sane woman to take him to the hospital.
asciilifeform: or does that construct work in ro
asciilifeform: aah ok.
mircea_popescu: i thought it worked in english.
asciilifeform: notafaik
mircea_popescu: hm.
asciilifeform: but i'm not an inglischman
mircea_popescu: well ... it's been in the logs, so it works nao.
mircea_popescu: it doesn't really work in romanian. i mean, a common honorific for the deceased is "regretatul" ie, the regretted. but that's about as far as that goes.
mircea_popescu: i have nfi why regrets - noun wouldn't work in a language where regrets - verb in perfective aspect works out of the box and without glue. in romanian it needs glue to work, and you can say "hey, no glue for noun so you can't do that!"
phf: asciilifeform: with nothing, that's the beauty of it.
asciilifeform: aah so cocaineyacht.
phf: btcbase still runs on slime, but it's a 30 line el file that lives in the repo itself.
asciilifeform: congrats phf
phf: i sometimes load it to do a macro transform on a particularly gnarly file
phf: but otherwise i use whatever. it's sort of like, if you don't have a hammer, you don't go pounding nails when you have nothing btter to do
asciilifeform: harmful habits are not the hammer's fault.
asciilifeform: 'i picked nose, but cured now, cut off it and fingers'
asciilifeform: phf: with what didja replace , e.g., 'who-calls' ? with grep ?
asciilifeform: with telepathy?
asciilifeform: enjoying typing out by hand 'least-negative-normalized-single-float' twenty times a day?
phf: who-calls ~what~? ~when~? why am i even asking that question? we're discussing a tool outside of specific problem, which is precisely "harmful habits" manifestation
asciilifeform: phf knows very well what is 'who-calls'
asciilifeform: in fact discussing specific domain here, as example, commonlisp.
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-21#1630170☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-21 01:15 phf: btcbase still runs on slime, but it's a 30 line el file that lives in the repo itself.
asciilifeform: suppose you write a ~new~ proggy, phf
asciilifeform: or reading old smbx clim crud, etc
asciilifeform: really, wont miss 'who-calls' ?
mircea_popescu: "but the hammer's so nice" "dude we're discussing a tool by itself" "don't you think it's nice ?"
asciilifeform: no.
asciilifeform: 'power saws are decadence, hand saw suffices to build anything in existence' 'how much sawing do you , personally, do?' 'stop discussing tool out of context!!1'
mircea_popescu: let's put it this way : if your program is compelx enough you forgot who-calls and it is not actually addressed to a large enough problem space, maybe it's time to review why you're writing it.
mircea_popescu: right back to the whole "but my balcony tomato plantation!11!"
ben_vulpes: hey now, who-calls is extremely-useful for archaeological work
mircea_popescu: yes, i understand that man drowning in complexishit may find various straws to help himself keep breather holes above level for a week longer.
mircea_popescu: still, wouldn'\t it be kinda nice if he sat himself on chair instead of all that ?
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes yes, but this means you're doing archeological work. why are you ?
asciilifeform: bulldozer that amplifies my intelligence and makes such thing as, e.g., unravelling trb, possible, is not 'balcony tomato'.
ben_vulpes: blender, $fiatoloa scam, etc?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i don't imagine he's proposing you don't use whatever tool you want for whatever job.
mircea_popescu: what he's proposing is that it's a tad ridiculous to keep, like every honest taxpaying, they took our jerbs murican, shiny toolkit in garage, that cost 5k to buy and used a total of 400 watts in its entire life
mircea_popescu: doing a $.45 fix.
phf: i'm not sure where to even start with alf's vitriol, but i've seen this conversations enough to not even try
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: i have allergy to 'Simplicity! Is Best! Simple life, Simple toolz!!!' folx, who, on examination, are able to carry along in he delusion strictly because they do ~0 nontrivial work with own hands.
mircea_popescu: mmm.
mircea_popescu: allergy noted in the grand list of allergies.
asciilifeform: ( there is nothing wrong with getting successful to cocaineyacht stage of life. but i like whenfolx are ~honest~ about it )
ben_vulpes: to play priest of heterodoxy for a moment, what is wrong with grep in place of `who-calls`, works for any-lang
asciilifeform: and not pretend that 'rusty spoon is just as good as power saw '.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes that you gotta remember the corner cases.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: ooda loop.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: perhaps it is sin of too-much-emacs, but this is not an interruption to my loop
asciilifeform: moarpowerforyou
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: expand on 'corner cases'?
asciilifeform: for folx who spent entire life shitting into holes in earth -- that is also not unpleasant, and does not lengthen their oodaloop.
phf: ben_vulpes: we're not actually discussing various relative merritts of various who calls, because we don't have any problem in mind. for trb clion's who-calls is above and beyond anything emacs provides, for genera's clim ~genera~ is way better at who calls, etc.
asciilifeform: phf: genera in my mind is 'an emacs'
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform listen, suppose you run your car over a pothole. what do you do now ?
asciilifeform: the adult emacs.
mircea_popescu: because your answer is "nothing", ima say you're at cocaineyacht stage!!11
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: explain
mircea_popescu: well, shouldn't you have a barrel of asphalt in your car, fix the hole ? serious people go about with barrel of asphalt tied to car.\
asciilifeform: 'pothole' means what in mircea_popescu's mind's eye, cubic metre pit ?
mircea_popescu: no, pothole, 15 cm deep.
asciilifeform: if there were one of these per six metres of road, i'd consider a tracked vehicle.
mircea_popescu: could you possibly also consider yopu know, just going to a different town ?
asciilifeform: there isn't a different town.
mircea_popescu: but there is a different vehicle.
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: yet there also is the BEST IN CLASS asphalt barrel with car attacher!
mircea_popescu: solutions come in a tree.
mircea_popescu: and you're not married to any particular node.
asciilifeform: i don't, note, take issue with folx who quit programming. i aspire to do it one day, myself.
mircea_popescu: some people (known as you know, road workers) have very strong preferences re the asphalt barrelatron.
mircea_popescu: this is fine.
mircea_popescu: it is also not universally interesting.
asciilifeform: but it is disingenuous to say 'i founda Zen Method of programming'
mircea_popescu: it is also not safe to say "they're the only ones doing roadwork". etc.
asciilifeform: which under the surface, consists of not actually writing nontrivial programs.
phf: i didn't actually quit programming, omg. this is reminiscent of the whisperers thread, where a strawman, once chosen, because the only possible direction of conversation
phf: *becomes
mircea_popescu: he should work for the washpo huh.
asciilifeform: well phf did say 'i replaced $tool-of-trade with Nothing'
asciilifeform: what am i to guess , this means.
mircea_popescu: i dunno.
asciilifeform: 'i sold my hammer' 'i suppose you are not a carpenter no moar?'
mircea_popescu: who says you gotta guess somthing ?
mircea_popescu: you can be a carpenter without a hammer.
asciilifeform: could. and so i asked him, because i'd like to see how carpenter goes along without hammer. maybe he found how to convince nails to go into wood by themselves..
mircea_popescu: or maybe hammers aren't as important as all that.
asciilifeform: well sure, maybe 'carpenter' now means a fella who blows houses from plastic, in one shot.
asciilifeform: how'd i know. hence -- asked.
mircea_popescu: your asking has very little in common with asking and a lot in common with "i'll just make up some random shit within 0.1 s and challenge everyone to prove it wrong"
ben_vulpes: nails are the worst metaphorkical pick.
mircea_popescu: which... well, let's say it generally fails to capture the interest of females, or males older than about 16.
asciilifeform: quite srsly, i'd like to know : phf now uses what? 'ed' ? does he still write programs for money ? in commonlisp? in selfsame 'ed' ?
asciilifeform: i will take off my hat, if it is so. promise.
ben_vulpes: who says phf works in cl?
mircea_popescu: iirc, phf himself.
asciilifeform: iirc.
asciilifeform: i could bewrong.
ben_vulpes: irdifferently.
ben_vulpes: java and postgres sit in my banks.
mircea_popescu: o.O
ben_vulpes: and for these, why emacs?
mircea_popescu: !#s from:phf java
a111: 14 results for "from:phf java", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Aphf%20java
mircea_popescu: !#s from:phf common lisp
a111: 60 results for "from:phf common lisp", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=from%3Aphf%20common%20lisp
asciilifeform: he did mention a java editor
ben_vulpes: yes, jetbrains
asciilifeform: long ago, asciilifeform did some hard time in a java salt mine, liked editor 'idea'
ben_vulpes: from which the other rec which i took derives, "appcode"
phf: there's no point to answering that question, because it's irrelevant to my original point
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes at no poin he says this, your banks need ecc!
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: perhaps the interstitial spaces carry meaning for me
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: there are several systems for which emacs support is poor/laughable/nonexistent, actually
ben_vulpes: but i leave this thread
phf: but in structural carpentry by the way they don't use nails, drills and screws. (i have experience with that one, and last time i did a build i don't think we even had a hammer)
ben_vulpes: now
mircea_popescu: phf i suspect your ride having been identified as possibly gay, you're now to defend your manhood in ARMED COMBAT!
asciilifeform: lul
mircea_popescu: and yes, everyone but asciilifeform is aware hammer-carpentry is ~windows-computing but anyway.
asciilifeform: the funny/sad bit is that i loathe emacs.
mircea_popescu: "oh, that's what we had at home" "good for you."
asciilifeform: it is a manacle.
mircea_popescu: fucking TERRIBLE idea, "oh, let's shove a hard item through the panes, that'll show 'em!"
asciilifeform: phf: really, no screws?
mircea_popescu: "won't shit get randomly bent and displaced and you only get the residual friction anyway ?" "YEAH!!!"
asciilifeform: how to attach the pieces? ultrasonic weld?
mircea_popescu: screws != nails eh.
phf: asciilifeform: ~screws~ not nails
asciilifeform: ah hmm looks like i misread phf's 'nails, drills, and screws'
phf: and screws are fastened using a drill, not hammer
asciilifeform: i was intrigued, 'no screws! ze phyootoor'
mircea_popescu: no screws ~= structural cuts and glue.
mircea_popescu: all those trapezoid profiles.
phf: you'd think ascii would know that one, traditional ru construction method
asciilifeform: aha
mircea_popescu: traditional everywhere people knew about wood.
mircea_popescu: nails really are the idiot's solution to carpentry.
asciilifeform: or even america 19th c, 'log cabin'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu this is entirely tru
trinque: phf already answered the IDE question in another thread
trinque: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-11#1625841☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-11 21:36 phf: that's another reason, why i don't for example, "hack my python with vim like a real hacker". give me the filthiest, most feature rich IDE, where i can just push spacebar to get half of my scaffolding, or whatever kids these days
mircea_popescu: ftr also not used in crucifixions.
asciilifeform: i found it trinque
mircea_popescu: for all the "original cross nail" afficionados
trinque: seems pretty reasonable; java vogons are gonna make the "best" vogonator
trinque: I dunno about the commercial lisp IDE situation but wouldn't surprise me if they're pretty ok
asciilifeform: trinque: i still missed 'hungry backspace', zero-mouse mechanics, and not having to use ibm keystrokes .
trinque: might have to do with which end of the pig you find most repellant
asciilifeform: (when i used 'idea', 'mathematica' other very spiffy nonemacsen specialized to tasks )
asciilifeform: *and other
trinque: I'm over here with emacs as window manager, shit you not.
mircea_popescu: come to think labout it, the extensive keybindings was the part i enjoyed least about derive.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: hah, so not only asciilifeform hated that ui !
mircea_popescu: ~everyone i knew using it for srs first composed a string for paper.
mircea_popescu: i think i mentioned old dood doing actual mm paper acre sized work at some point.
mircea_popescu: even.
trinque caps workflow improvements to a with-coffee endeavor, avoids http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-21#1630088☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-21 00:44 phf: well, i realized that environment micro optimizations are mostly a waste of time, and that something like emacs is one of the worst offenders.
asciilifeform: ( interestingly, the physical, calculatorized pocket derive, had stellar ui, joy to use )
mircea_popescu: i never had that one i dont think
phf: trinque: i've been there, i used exwm for a couple of months. there's no end to the rabbit hole when it's made out of bits, is my point
trinque: oh sure
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: softwarehouse inc. was bought by ti, who 'calculatorized' it, there's an old thread
trinque: I'm tempted to fiddle with midnight commander after asciilifeform's mention
mircea_popescu: ah ah. myeah.
trinque: midnight commander
trinque: ah shit this isn't google
mircea_popescu: trinque it was part of my survival kit for "gotta use a windows system"
mircea_popescu: fortunately, this hasn't been a thing in a decade by now.
mircea_popescu: totalcommander also good.
asciilifeform: ^gui only iirc
mircea_popescu: xtreegold best, but we digress.
mircea_popescu: !#d xtg
mircea_popescu: !#s xtg
a111: 2 results for "xtg", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=xtg
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: there were many decent clones of the dos nc : e.g., 'volkov commander'
mircea_popescu: wow unmentioned ?
mircea_popescu: well, let's say it did most of my work back in the day.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it was described in a trilema
mircea_popescu: ah ah
asciilifeform: and yeah , an nc-like proggy can make life on a shell-less os almost tolerable. but (as i described in earlier thread) that is not the only use.
mircea_popescu: shit was ~windows 3.1, except actually worked, was actually useful and took like 300kb. but otherwise - exactly identical. unsurprisingly, didn't take off.
mircea_popescu: (even had mouse! in like 1990!)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform dos wasn't altogether shell-less though. about par with ash or w/e they had at the time.
asciilifeform: no grep, no sed -- not shell.
asciilifeform: toy.
mircea_popescu: no pipe, no shell. that much. pretty sure there was an awkatron as a command.
asciilifeform: ( and yes, i wrote kilometres of .bat, like everybody else )
mircea_popescu: but you couldn't really go | which ... yeah. ruins it.
asciilifeform: the humble | is 99% of what unix even has going for it.
mircea_popescu: xtg had built in hex view! and shit.
mircea_popescu: yep. exactly true.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: nc also, hexview
mircea_popescu: they made biosen with asm debuggers built in, back then, too!
asciilifeform: i use mc's -- daily
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: on pc?!
mircea_popescu: i used to use it daily when i used real mode computors for sure.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha. 286 to boot.
asciilifeform: who made ?
mircea_popescu: i don't recall right off.
mircea_popescu: but my jaw dropped when i was shown the wonder.
asciilifeform never had the pleasure of encountering x86 with rom debugger.
phf: i briefly used emacs and clisp in dos. as poor man lisp machine as it gets
asciilifeform had 'xlisp'
asciilifeform: it was neato
mircea_popescu goes on dig for wtf that was, turns up... pfaster-286
mircea_popescu: dja know this wtf ? advertised in oct 1985 pc mag
mircea_popescu: https://books.google.com.ar/books?id=xsMx9D2s6y0C&lpg=PA43&ots=_kLp1j3SJb&pg=PA43#v=onepage&q&f=false < item
asciilifeform flips through linked thing, nostalgiates
asciilifeform: pg. 35 also interesting
mircea_popescu: yeah remember when these were actually worth reading ?
asciilifeform: 'IBM PC Creator Dies. DALLAS--Philip D. "Don" Estridge, 47, IBM vice president of manufacturing and former head of the Entry Systems Division, which developed the IBM PC, was among the six IBM employees killed in the August 2 Delta Air Lines crash at the Dallas/Fort Worth airport...'
asciilifeform: 1985.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: yeah, as late as mid-90s even.
mircea_popescu: yeah.
phf: ru had computerra, which was quite decent in 98 or so, went downhill after
mircea_popescu: romania had literal samizdat items.
mircea_popescu: maybe a thousand different, most with <12 editions.
mircea_popescu: two thirds on a4 paper.
mircea_popescu: virtually all dot-matrixed
mircea_popescu: basically people'd steal whatever govt office supplies, make a... well i guess a sort of blog, really. 90s.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it is interesting, in the american 'computing' mags of the time, to see the ads, how the pictured people are dressed, even
asciilifeform: quite different planet from today.
mircea_popescu: yeah.
mircea_popescu: it wasn't ok top be black, then
asciilifeform: in other types of leisure reading, 'scientific american' (i recently bought half a century's worth of'em, monster crate) also same types of people
asciilifeform: not only 'not black' but they are dressed like 'stereotypical capitalist devil', sharp suit, tie, sitting in respectable-looking study, or in office with obvious subordinates, etc
mircea_popescu: right.
asciilifeform: they are creatures of the 'vhs america'.
mircea_popescu: the non-inclusive, non-minority friendly us. america.
asciilifeform: p.37: 'Market competitors wasted no time in knocking Microsoft's long awaited Windows environment... ...Microsoft, however, says that the criticisms ranged from unfair to incorrect. Says company spokesperson Marty Taucher "We changed the product significantly so it would support existing applications. Allegations that it does not, as (Quarterdeck president) Therese Myers says, and that you need to 'step aside' to support other progra
asciilifeform: ms, are flat wrong." '
asciilifeform: lulzy.
mircea_popescu: aha, back when the shitshow could still have been killed.
asciilifeform: aha, if not for... a plane crash here , an idiot there.
mircea_popescu: aha.
mircea_popescu: and a universal if foolish unawareness of the republic.
mircea_popescu: "why should some thigns be destroyed. live and let live!!11"
mircea_popescu: idjits.
asciilifeform: poor savages, thought that only single bodies could get cancers.
mircea_popescu: you know, at the time the samovar wasn't yet a train
mircea_popescu: "oh, big whoop, why oppress the niggers! not like i don't have my nice suit or my sane office"
asciilifeform: funnily enough, it was very much a train, but was still called 'ibm' train.
asciilifeform: ( if we're still speaking of microshitization )
asciilifeform: but -- yes.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform observe that at the tme phoenix could make... cpu competitor board.,
mircea_popescu: and... did.
asciilifeform: p.96 , moar lulz
asciilifeform: 'Computer paranoia is inspired by an industry aggressive enough to liken internal competition to war and incompetent enough to ship faulty, dangerous products.'
phf: mode ##lmi +b foo@bar
phf: err
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-21#1630068 There's two distinct very different things under the brand. American version's msot notable product is "Brute" trashcan☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-21 00:21 mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo afaik that's a chinese brand.
BingoBoingo: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-21#1630161 << Have seem before. Mostly from the Aged.☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-21 01:09 mircea_popescu: i thought it worked in english.
BingoBoingo: *seen
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/88410164DA70AFE747DB9252B676BA0AD4C8AE449F9042EFF189EDF25E273AD2 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1546...2179 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (vps276.zoner-asiakas.fi. FI)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/88410164DA70AFE747DB9252B676BA0AD4C8AE449F9042EFF189EDF25E273AD2 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1592...0617 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (vps276.zoner-asiakas.fi. FI)
Framedragger: test
Framedragger: mircea_popescu: yeah, server went down, and now need to fix stuff. will do
Framedragger: unplanned maintenance of some switch, my ass
Framedragger: but logger should of course be more antifragile(tm)
mircea_popescu: lel
Framedragger: test2 (sorry for teh spam, need to make sure i understand issues)
Framedragger will fix the gap, bbl
Framedragger: (this might also a be good kickinass to finally move to db, however, no time till april, so considering quickdirtierfix for now, which is a bit yuck)
mircea_popescu: eh relax.
Framedragger: 'scheduling'
mircea_popescu: in other lulz, "where the fuck are you ?" "i'm stuck in traffic on the highway."
mircea_popescu: for the love of utter debasement, WHAT THE FUCK IS THE PURPOSE OF THE HIGHWAY THEN!
mircea_popescu: that's why it's there, to not get stuck in traffic. "oh, i got a scrape and then i put disinfectant on it which infected it".
shinohai: Kinda like indiancandy having a vagina she didn't want to penetrate with anything.
mod6: mornin'
shinohai waves to mod6, passes coffee [~]D
mod6: thanks :]
mod6 needs it.
shinohai: I found this poor little Dell Inspiron 4150 sitting by a dumpster on my morning walk. Brought it home and the thing actually booted w/Knoppix xD
mod6: ha.
mod6: I hung my new 4'x6' whiteboard next to the battlestation last night. 'tis awesome.
shinohai: Speaking of battlestations, didn't you mention you have a new boxxen in the works?
mod6: well, yeah, i've got a new dedicated box that is trb w/wires and currently syncing from thin air.
mod6: and I ordered a physical box that has the same 2 procs, but has 64gb of ram as opposed to 24gb. just needs few disks.
mod6: then will probably get that setup and colocate it somewhere.
mod6: once fully sync'd they both could be masters ; helping avoid star topology.
mircea_popescu: nice.
shinohai: sweet.
danielpbarron: there is traffic on highways because women think it exists for them to set cruise control in whichever lane they happen to end up, and then play games on their phone until they get to work, which results in long strings of cars going exactly the same speed, which results in congestion when even a single similarly slow car tries to pass the clog.
asciilifeform: where do you drive, danielpbarron ?
danielpbarron: Connecticut shoreline (i95 mostly)
asciilifeform: can't say i've ever seen a jam that looks like 'long strings of cars going exactly the same speed'
asciilifeform: seems almost like the very definition of not-jammed.
danielpbarron: if that speed were the speed i want to go then i guess it wouldn't be a problem. but i drive fast
asciilifeform: that is not, i suspect, what most drivin' folk think of as 'jam'
asciilifeform: over here, a jam is when ~nothing moves at all.
mircea_popescu: same here.
mircea_popescu: taking 95 minutes to cover 15 miles.
asciilifeform: aha.
danielpbarron: but no, what happens is when cars are so close together it is much more likely for a phase change to occur (that is going from a state where it is trivial to change lanes to one where changing lanes is difficult because it's hard to find an opening)
danielpbarron: all it takes then is one idiot to hit the breaks for no reason and all the other cars similarly break, and it ripples backwards causing another phase change into what you call a jam, where changing lanes is impossible.
mircea_popescu: 1st world problems. also :
mircea_popescu: http://a.abcnews.com/images/International/RT_beijing_traffic_2_jt_151008_12x5_1600.jpg
danielpbarron shudders
asciilifeform: famous photo
asciilifeform: i dun know of 1 toll booth even half of this size, in usa
mircea_popescu: aha.
asciilifeform: also suggests that the chinese fucked up their golden chance to make the auto continue to be worth something as a transport for the reasonably elite, vs 'we ate a mutual spoon of shit for free'
mircea_popescu: i have nfi what they were thinking, "we're going to mass industrialize in 1980 AND BUILD ROADS"
mircea_popescu: bitch, what ? would have been 2x as good and 10x as cheap to build rail.
mircea_popescu: "no but roads are flexible" "so is hunger."
asciilifeform: even motherfucking CANALS would beat american-style jam roads.
mircea_popescu: china is arid.
asciilifeform: barge -- goes faster, than my auto went on most days.
asciilifeform: i thought east (civilized) china, were wet..
mircea_popescu: notrly. overall, it's like the dustbowl.
asciilifeform: so is hunger << 'a revolutionary must be ready to die three types of death: of hunger; of beatings; and of cold.' (iirc) sun yat sen
mircea_popescu: ha. not bad.
asciilifeform: he imho forgot 4th -- of boredom
mircea_popescu: i don't think he forgot.
mircea_popescu: bored revolutionaries belong with stalin.
asciilifeform: lel
asciilifeform: stalin was still robbin' banks
trinque: half the idiocy is city zoning
mircea_popescu: i mean for him to give them what for.
trinque: lets cram everyone working into the smallest place possible
mircea_popescu: trinque yep
phf: dc traffic is special. ferrying the mass of aparatchiks with their high boredom tolerance through the narrow corridors between the old money property
mircea_popescu: worst fucking idea ever. zoning should be illegal by constitutional ammendment,
mircea_popescu: "no one shall make any covenant as to the use of land."
trinque: no zoning in houston
trinque: so the thing spreads out and grows new "downtown" clusters all the time
trinque: almost like leave life the fuck alone and it works fine
mircea_popescu: always does.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: this'd be a massive dekulakization, more or less 100% of 'class privilege' in usistan is 'no plebes, no traffic, for mile around'
mircea_popescu: pfff.
mircea_popescu: this is like keeping warm by pissing your pants
mircea_popescu: it only works if you're THAT retarded.
asciilifeform: they inherited a perverse, 'josephsmithed', fondness for trappings of 'country estate', from probably the british days
mircea_popescu: look : if my slavegirl wears a red dress and i dun like it, i go "take that thing off". maybe i don't go anything. but i sure as fuck don't go "oh honey, red dresses aren't good."
mircea_popescu: SAME EXACT fucking thing here. if you want your plebs to walk, FUCKING TALK TO THEM.
mircea_popescu: you over there! yes you! you're a pleb! get walking!
mircea_popescu: none of the bs "oh.... there is ... A RULE ... about genera l things"
mircea_popescu: if you're too shy to talk to your plebs just go hang yourself.
mircea_popescu: these bs "solutions" ain't.
mircea_popescu: do the world and yourself a basic fucking courtesy and opress people individually, rather than trying to come up with impersonal bs.
asciilifeform: for whatever reason (could be from plantation days? i have nfi) plebes are not managed like people in usistan, but more like livestock, they build pens, corrals, for them, this was even the subject of a mircea_popescu article ('embroiled in dealings with the stupid poor', or what was it called)
mircea_popescu: it always fucking backfires.
mircea_popescu: yes, well, it's unseemly. by now the big house is a large corral.
asciilifeform: there is a reason why the fence is the 'most stereotypically american' furniture of the landscape. everything, even the most worthless empty lot, ruined cement plinths overgrown with weeds, is fenced in -- and if you don't fence in even own front yard, sheeple will trample it to dirt within weeks
asciilifeform: ( but oddly enough, even a very jumpable, strictly ceremonial fence -- keeps'em on the sidewalk. why -- i do not know. )
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/893C088A48B0003D10B6F6DE055C8855478338E9DA593191F376E97BB1EBD7D7 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1354...1257 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown BS NP)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/893C088A48B0003D10B6F6DE055C8855478338E9DA593191F376E97BB1EBD7D7 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1633...7633 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown BS NP)
mircea_popescu: cuz they're mentally dim.
asciilifeform: lol bahamas tld
asciilifeform: 1st afaik
asciilifeform: !$ ssh
scriba: ssh banner of as seen on 2016-06-13: SSH-2.0-OpenSSH_4.7p1 Debian-8
danielpbarron: how do you oppress someone individually on the highway? run them off the road?
phf: i jumped a fence while drunk in georgetown once, during my college years, was invited for a glass of bourbon and a chat by the owner. "i was a rufian, like you, young boys, once"
mircea_popescu: evidently.
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron pickup truck with mortar and g2g missiles, imo.
trinque: some truck owners around here have those idiot LED light bars
mircea_popescu: let pleb invest in radar lock detection, if he cares.
trinque: I think they qualify if you're close enough behind
trinque: I dunno if this is even a thing elsewhere
asciilifeform: trinque: what's that
asciilifeform: ... sorta like the mythical rear horn ?
trinque: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/c6/9a/06/c69a06724ee3cef759fb3efcfa8a7da0.jpg
trinque: blinding
phf: ever since playing Quarantine, i thought that it wouldn't be a bad idea to make highways lawless zones
asciilifeform: ^
asciilifeform: phf: at the very least, the Pedestrian Ram oughta be standard equipment.
mircea_popescu: pfff.
asciilifeform: crossed outside of crosswalk ? splat.
asciilifeform: and 100% within rights.
mircea_popescu: pedestrian is above anyone in a car gtfo.
mircea_popescu: on the contrary : car is permitted on the ground provided it gets in the way of no pedestrians.
mircea_popescu: must obtain certificate from all of them ; renew weekly.
danielpbarron: i oppress them in a non violent way: I pass on the right. I don't let people follow behind me, or to my side. when I pass, I get it over with. and I never try to look at the people in the cars, which i've been told by people who do that it causes them to become apoplectic
mircea_popescu: i guess it'll have to do!
trinque: houston area has loads of toll roads, great filter that keeps you able to get anywhere you want quickly as long as you pay
trinque: I wouldn't mind if the whole thing worked that way
trinque: sanity would dictate the road belongs to someone; pay him
mircea_popescu: trinque buenos aires has cab-only lanes. pretty spiffy idea.
mircea_popescu: sort of carpooling done right / putting office drone where it belongs deal.
trinque: aha, nb idea
asciilifeform: trinque: the one mega-road in md/dc that never, ever jams, and is gloriously empty, you can feel like chinese emperor on his private forbidden city road -- is 200; where you gotta pay ~tenbux end to end
trinque: here they had the "HOV lane" but turned it into a pay lane
mircea_popescu: "oh you can't afford a cab ? lol." and then don't pay the drones enough to afford a cab.
trinque: can speed right down the middle of the highway
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform aha. splendid idea too.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: funnily enough, the state managed to lose money EVEN ON IT
asciilifeform: by spending a few $B (yes) to build it.
trinque: !#s trimet
a111: 1 result for "trimet", http://btcbase.org/log-search?q=trimet
mircea_popescu: that state will lose money on gold rain.
danielpbarron: speaking of pedestrian vs car. in this city the orcs spitefully and intentionally obstruct the road as some sort of bizzarro power signalling. Things like waiting until there is a car before crossing the road ; opening driver's side door without even looking, and then taking their time with it, digging around like its their closet and not a public street
asciilifeform: ( no toll booths, either, you bought a radio pass thingie )
asciilifeform: danielpbarron: this type of 'stotting' is ubiquitous here also
mircea_popescu: well hang those then.
danielpbarron: i don't slow down for 'em
asciilifeform: in egregiously-infested places they actually build massive wrought iron fences to keep'em from crossing in random spots and slowing down traffic for miles
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: cabs in usistan are peculiarly expensive, i still have nfi why. it's the thing that ultimately spawned crackpot chumpatrons ('uber', 'lyft', etc)
mircea_popescu: why. because the ustards can't do anything right anymore. gotta do it speshul.
asciilifeform: and this is even outside of major cities where 'medallions' etc.
trinque: anyone ever seen "swangin"
trinque: orciest of orc road behaviors
asciilifeform: wassat
trinque: you swerve across all lanes back and forth
trinque: while being unwhite, ofc
asciilifeform: sounds like policeman's dream
trinque: in fact I saw one of these get pulled over immediately after. was pretty great
mircea_popescu: im sure the fine went on a credit card.
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FAF7459675FE8CC257A8C935A57D5AF1C7874975FCEBB570ABCF953B6988FF41 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1614...2257 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown RU TUL)
deedbot: http://phuctor.nosuchlabs.com/gpgkey/FAF7459675FE8CC257A8C935A57D5AF1C7874975FCEBB570ABCF953B6988FF41 << Recent Phuctorings. - Phuctored: 1791...8859 divides RSA Moduli belonging to ' (ssh-rsa key from (13-14 June 2016 extraction) for Phuctor import. Ask asciilifeform or framedragger on Freenode, or email fd at mkj dot lt) <ssh...lt>; ' (Unknown RU TUL)
phf: https://www.techpowerup.com/231536/amd-ryzen-machine-crashes-to-a-sequence-of-fma3-instructions
asciilifeform pictures intel mole getting 'order of wintel red star' pinned on his uniform
mircea_popescu: lol
shinohai: xD
mircea_popescu: how come there's always gotta be a retard doing the join part bs.
shinohai: Too busy being Sancho with someone's wife to set up a znc
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it'd be entertaining if one is ever caught and wired to the mains -- to learn wtf he thought he was doing here.
shinohai: W...W...Where am I ?
mircea_popescu: incidentally, re the above http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-21#1630555 : the us "trillion dollar gdp" suddenly looks a lot less impressive once one figures out a road costs something like a quarter billion a track mile. dude what, so you built 50k miles of road in 2015 ?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2017-03-21 16:59 asciilifeform: by spending a few $B (yes) to build it.
mircea_popescu: china built 100k in q1
trinque: asciilifeform: they're just.
trinque: justing like a dude.
asciilifeform dereferences null ptr, barfs
ben_vulpes: in re mains: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhMkvl9u87M
phf: villagers, they simply don't know what's a hygiene
trinque: ahahahah
asciilifeform: what a waste of good rubber, copper.
trinque: no there has to be a monthly allocation of both for exactly that.
trinque: make a show of it
asciilifeform: trinque: i am rather fond of the thing they had in ye olde american south, 1950s, portable electric chair truck ( most towns were, apparently, too poor to afford their own permanent one )
asciilifeform: 'yellow mama'
asciilifeform: it went 'round, 'round.
asciilifeform: doing its thing.
asciilifeform: self-contained -- generator and all (not everyone had sufficiently juicy mains? nfi)
ben_vulpes: what's wrong with hangings again?
asciilifeform: nuffin
trinque: well no dancing for one
asciilifeform: iirc hangings were declared (i shit thee not) 'too sexy'
asciilifeform: chix went wild as they watched the hempen jig danced, the jizz fall
phf: one of recurring themes in burroughs
danielpbarron is a fan of stoning
trinque: no way; far too empowering of common idiots
trinque: as though the thing somehow comes from them
ben_vulpes: b-but mob justice, trinque
shinohai: danielpbarron: Why aren't women allowed at stonin's ?
phf: trinque: panem et circenses
danielpbarron: shinohai, is this the set up to a joke? I don't know that there is a gender restriction imposed in the Bible
danielpbarron: trinque, that's the point. if someone deserves to die, everyone should be on board with doing the deed.
shinohai: danielpbarron: https://youtu.be/ffwFXGPRDu4?t=12
ben_vulpes: rather hard to unwind a murderously-intent mob.
ben_vulpes: on one hand, i suppose the peasants may do whatever to each other. on the other, how dare you rob me of still-productive flesh?
danielpbarron: if your community turns to mob mentality so easily then you have bigger problems.
trinque: community isn't a thing
trinque: what this does is empowers every slackjaw peasant to use "we'll go apeshit" as leverage
danielpbarron: republic, society, whatever you want to call it
trinque: didn't the mob condemn your guy?
danielpbarron: yep
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the chinese have those trcuks now.
mircea_popescu: apparently... the civ tree WILL be walked.
asciilifeform: eh iirc the chinese have moar practical -- organ harvest bus
asciilifeform: 0 spectacle.
mircea_popescu: hey, that's just as much a harvest.
mircea_popescu: whether you take the steak or the sizzle.
asciilifeform: ( they still have spectacle, the shooting field, but exists somehow in parallel with the bus. )
mircea_popescu: !~ticker --market all
jhvh1: mircea_popescu: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 1107.99, vol: 10588.08120418 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 1129.0, vol: 9120.61842 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 1108.3, vol: 31279.51403033 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 1069.81182, vol: 4669.78470000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 1100.001, vol: 4082.49310025 | Volume-weighted last average: 1107.82967196
Framedragger: > download datasets from commoncrawl.org for $work
Framedragger: > content of relevant site full of unrelated html body / russian sites / wtf
Framedragger: > Server: cloudflare-nginx
Framedragger: > ahh
Framedragger: (that said, could be some other reason. but lulzy)
trinque: bits or gtfo
trinque: :D
Framedragger: 69M of text, hmm
ben_vulpes: yeah Framedragger where the keys at
Framedragger: maybe there are some good keywords to search for sensitive material
Framedragger: anyway sample file's here https://commoncrawl.s3.amazonaws.com/crawl-data/CC-MAIN-2017-09/segments/1487501171232.43/crawldiagnostics/CC-MAIN-20170219104611-00529-ip-10-171-10-108.ec2.internal.warc.gz but in fact i may just be mistaken with regards to how commoncrawl works. maybe i'm supposed to be seeing random junk for a particular requested site
Framedragger: it's just how it works
Framedragger: in which case, sorry to disappoint
Framedragger: nah i think it's innocent, it's just full of junk, e.g. http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/pastes/ACKJH/?raw=true
Framedragger: would make sense to download more archives from commoncrawl from before january or wherever and to then grep for sensitive keywords but can't be bothered right now. sorry for teh hype
Framedragger: whenever*
Framedragger: so...much...junk
Framedragger: doppler: there's your project right there :D ^
mircea_popescu: lel
shinohai: lol Preeeeeeeeet to join NYU School of law
asciilifeform: not quite what mircea_popescu predicted..
mircea_popescu: twist : nyu schoo of law to be defunded this autumn.
asciilifeform: that would be hilarious
mircea_popescu: (but no, if you imagine teaching position is good in context, you're nuts.)
mircea_popescu: ~same as $random-athlete to move on to sportscaster position.
asciilifeform: iirc it's where obummer came from and now went back into.
mircea_popescu: obummer came from random-activist's livingroom, went to where ex-presidents go.
asciilifeform: 'teaching' sinecure, in both cases
asciilifeform: it's where they put'em.