log
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deedbot-: [Trilema] Mochila o muerte! - http://trilema.com/2016/mochila-o-muerte/
mod6: <+asciilifeform> http://marte.unican.es/index.htm << hey this is neat
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell shinohai Bed eating isn't a real addiction.
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ick
asciilifeform: what next - bed shitting?
shinohai: That's a new level of fat degeneracy for me.
BingoBoingo: Bed shitting is so common in hospital they even have shit pan for bed.
shinohai: Let's hope she doesn't eat that too.
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: in hospital, 'not from a good life', vs sheer putrid sloth, wtf
BingoBoingo: Hey, Obeast took powered wheelchairs from hospitals and made it a trend. Why not shitpan for bed?
asciilifeform: ever play 'monkey island ii' ?
asciilifeform: recall the character with the bed that had shit pipe?
felipelalli: what year is it????
asciilifeform: felipelalli: 0.
felipelalli: o.o I just sleep some days and when I wake up... wow
felipelalli: there are a URL that keep the log of this channel? (please don't say "read the logs to know it") - and how can I search something in the log with deedbot? Is that possible?
mike_c: http://btcbase.org/log/
felipelalli: thank you mike_c
mod6: we're in our seventh year.
mod6: and this is year zero of the second congress of the republic
mod6: pop-rocks are awesome btw
felipelalli: lol :)
mod6: haha strawberry!
asciilifeform: mod6: what's a pop-rock ?
mod6: oh man.
mod6: looks like colored meth: http://www.pop-rocks.com/
mod6: candy. check it out sometime.
phf: felipelalli: search is still not quite there yet, because i had a bandwidth limits, right now does straight up case-sensitive grep
felipelalli: !gettrust phf
gribble: WARNING: Currently not authenticated. Trust relationship from user felipelalli to user phf: Level 1: 0, Level 2: 0 via 0 connections. Graph: http://b-otc.com/stg?source=felipelalli&dest=phf | WoT data: http://b-otc.com/vrd?nick=phf | Rated since: Thu Jan 2 22:27:02 2014
felipelalli: can I make a "gettrust" using deedbot?
phf: felipelalli: it's $gettrust
felipelalli: $gettrust phf
deedbot: L1: 0, L2: 6 by 5 connections.
felipelalli: nice! thank you phf .
mod6: pretty neat little chart there phf
phf: activity by hour?
mod6: ya
phf: yeah, it ended up being pretty handy
phf: i have a bunch of work i want to put in into logs, just waiting for schedule to clear up
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ever play 'monkey island ii' ? << nah
shinohai: ;;ticker
gribble: Bitfinex BTCUSD ticker | Best bid: 423.7, Best ask: 423.71, Bid-ask spread: 0.01000, Last trade: 423.7, 24 hour volume: 7436.52051714, 24 hour low: 418.8, 24 hour high: 425.0, 24 hour vwap: None
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: mega-recommended
asciilifeform: adventure from golden age
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: My time is more stained than usually. Been renting my attention out by the hour on a part time basis for fiat bucks lately.
mircea_popescu: mod6> and this is year zero of the second congress of the republic << word.
mircea_popescu: tho perhaps bitcoin-otc might count as first congress.
BingoBoingo: Year zero of the null-th congress
asciilifeform: the real puzzler will be whether the gossiptronic beast, where different folks actually see different universes, counts as 'a congress'...
mircea_popescu: that'd be the digress
BingoBoingo: It would be the dongress
asciilifeform: l0l!
felipelalli: $rate phf 3 "Lisper. He's also very polite and respectful. :D"
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/e7a0ff21-af62-4711-b58d-e0ee9fa80b04/
felipelalli: $v 3D8592FF589A96CE823B62B60EB209AC499F76299F1D668B26BE66C3068AD207
deedbot: felipelalli rated phf 3 << "Lisper. He's also very polite and respectful. :D"
phf: aw
mats: cute
punkman: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jaiq_ZZ_eM
ben_vulpes: not a barb, asciilifeform
ben_vulpes: more like "we don't make much over here, and you don't ride bikes, so i don't think this cult is for you"
ben_vulpes: not to mention your explicit hatred of what makes up the bulk of my work.
ben_vulpes shrugs
ben_vulpes: what can i say, i muck stables for room and board.
ben_vulpes: chrome is now throwing up "dangerous site" pages for...torrent trackers.
shinohai: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-12#1450411 <<< got this warning while visiting kat.cr earlier on gf's lappy☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-04-12 06:21 ben_vulpes: chrome is now throwing up "dangerous site" pages for...torrent trackers.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes the whole "for your protection" thing can ever only go one way - to where it "protects" you from sluts and drink.
mircea_popescu: and in other forgotten lulz news, http://trilema.com/2011/elemente-de-baza-n-tehnica-trolajului-grav/#selection-27.0-26.1
BingoBoingo: Roger Ver gets back into retail, because that worked so well for him in the past https://archive.is/AE045
shinohai: What's he going to do, open up a fireworks trailer in Alabama?
mircea_popescu: lmao
BingoBoingo: He could sell collectibles again for USD while watching US fall compared to the merchandise he sold.
shinohai: I love how he pays Buttnix to write articles, then pops in the comments section like he doesn't own the site.
mircea_popescu: incidentally : anyone on friendly terms with cs depts at unis / cs profs, plox get in touch, i have a little scheme i could use your halp with. ty!
mircea_popescu: $rated alikim
deedbot: mircea_popescu rated alikim 1 at 3669304001 << Euloran
mircea_popescu: $rate alikim 2 Euloran, flash programmer, alikim.com/photos
deedbot: Get your OTP: http://wotpaste.cascadianhacker.com/r/8cd50a8a-efce-46b4-9e27-e288e381ee64/
mircea_popescu: $v B89E246463D3F547D12D54F06755647EBD38CFA5AEDFA76667EFD88070D7C37F
deedbot: mircea_popescu updated rating of alikim from 1 to 2 << Euloran, flash programmer, alikim.com/photos
mircea_popescu: $gettrust alikim
deedbot: L1: 2, L2: 0 by 0 connections.
phf: o_O
mircea_popescu: hm ?
mircea_popescu: darn.
mircea_popescu: o hey, trinque got it to pick itself up off the floor did he. nice.
phf: a weird deedbot crash, which seems to indicate sporadic packet delivery somehow
mircea_popescu: myeh.
trinque: yup, I've seen a couple of those
phf: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-11#1450068 << http://btcbase.org/log-raw/☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-04-11 09:50 mircea_popescu: incidentally phf is there a log bundle for download somewhere ?
phf: this is only the stuff that i'm producing, in the same format as kako's original
phf: i'll shuffle things around at some point so that the folder contains pre-t-a stuff too
mircea_popescu: win.
phf: it is live (i.e. it's a WAL), but if someone needs to read this data at frequency, talk to me to work something out
phf: which reminds, ben_vulpes you still need me to give you wotpaste urls? i could probably produce a daily structured dump or somesuch
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-12#1450421 << me. pgpgram detailz?☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-04-12 13:19 mircea_popescu: incidentally : anyone on friendly terms with cs depts at unis / cs profs, plox get in touch, i have a little scheme i could use your halp with. ty!
mircea_popescu: ;;ud wal
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Walmart | The local 3-generation mom & pop store was run out of town by Walmart. ... C' mon Louann, we gotta go to Wal-Mart and get Mama her Christmas present.
phf: mircea_popescu: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Write-ahead_logging
mircea_popescu: ;p
phf: mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37-GbX3iKbU
mircea_popescu: by now a111 is quite the piece of machinery huh.
mircea_popescu: lol at least they're barefoot. worx.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you get pms rite ?
mircea_popescu: actually come to think of it, http://dpaste.com/2BGGCQE
phf: it gives me an opportunity to exhaustively explore technical questions, so ironically it's a more sophisticated piece of engineering than what i write for day to day
phf: it's definitely not the "fastest" "easiest" "sane" way of doing things
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in a meeting, bbs
mircea_popescu: no rush
mircea_popescu: phf word. goes back to my comment re lisp and rl that nearly started a crusade :D
trinque: kinda how deedbot went, decided I'd go balls deep in common lisp and see what happens
phf: by day to day i mean non-lisp stuff, but yeah, even taking that thing live revealed a lot of annoyances in cmucl (asciilifeform will say told you so)
mircea_popescu: lol.
mircea_popescu: and on top of which the beauty of wot-access-control, perhaps nto apparent yet, is that if you're hit with something it'll be both complex and readily documented. as opposed to the faux-real-world, where one still gets 90% brute force ssh attempts and crap.
punkman: http://www.postphp.com/namecheap-livechat-social-engineering-leads-to-loss-of-2-vps/
mircea_popescu: heh!
mircea_popescu: and in today's random log link, http://btcbase.org/log/2014-09-22#841603☝︎
a111: Logged on 2014-09-22 23:59 JuliaTourianski_: what projects in the BTC space do you guys like? if any...these conferences seem to be full of frat boys wanting to be men, with projects...many of which seem to be solving the same problem that doesn't exist.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: got it
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: interesting idea, i'd be of more use if i knew ~anything about eulora !
asciilifeform: or hm, looks more general?
mircea_popescu: yes.
mircea_popescu: "there's this open source project which is also a game and they're really into doing a partnership with a cs dept and would you wanna talk to them ?" works neh ?
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-12#1450461 << phf remind me again what the hell the up-side of cmucl was☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-04-12 14:46 phf: by day to day i mean non-lisp stuff, but yeah, even taking that thing live revealed a lot of annoyances in cmucl (asciilifeform will say told you so)
asciilifeform: it always struck me as a kind of 'bsd 4' - yes, 'hackable', yes, 'small', but the ~wrong kind of small~, the kind that will balloon into the same megalith as sbcl if you were to add all of the missing but necessary pieces.
phf: what are these "missing but necessary pieces"?
asciilifeform: motherfucking native threads, for one
asciilifeform: i consider a general-purpose language without these, WORTHLESS
phf: well, that's the only one that you keep mentioning, and i heard you about it :)
asciilifeform: there is also the support for various non-x86 boxen
asciilifeform: and, much as folks like to spit on it - unicode.
phf: which cmucl has
asciilifeform: does it?
mircea_popescu: wait, cmucl has no unicode ?
asciilifeform: didn't, last i saw
phf: i think since 2009 or so
asciilifeform: neato
mircea_popescu: im unconvinced multibox support is a good idea. if i am going to run on non-x86, i sure as fuck don't wantall the x86 stuff in there.
mircea_popescu: and vice-versa.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: what x86 stuff
phf: sbcl has arm support over cmucl
asciilifeform: i do not rightfully apprehend mircea_popescu's observation here
phf: but otherwise..
mircea_popescu: mk let's rephrase. if i used a non-x86 box i'd want the thing to be native for that box not an addon to x86.
asciilifeform: i still don't get it
mircea_popescu: this is why i'm even using arm or w/e in the first place.
asciilifeform: what means 'native to' here
phf: mircea_popescu: von neumann machines are a lot more similar than dissimilar. difference between x86 and arm is a very thin layer
mircea_popescu: suppose the language's compiled. the compiler has no reason to know about non-native microcode.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: suppose you want to cross-compile ?
mircea_popescu: suppose i don't.
asciilifeform: and sure, nobody makes you keep the thing around
asciilifeform: you can always run a tree shaker and throw out the src you never intend to use.
asciilifeform: save a few kb of disk !111111
mircea_popescu: security more a concern than disk really.
phf: asciilifeform: i don't think lisps support cross-compilation in general?
asciilifeform: phf: it'd have to be something like sbcl's 'save-lisp-and-die'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: in the interest of fits-in-head - sure
phf: which is very very narrowly portable
asciilifeform: phf: aha, commonlisp is unfriendly to the notion of an 'exe' in general
asciilifeform: (which imho is the Right Thing)
mircea_popescu: so then what multibox support.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: multibox means that the thing ~can~ be ported to new cpu with minimal sweat
mircea_popescu: and you just admitted you don't want this.
asciilifeform: rather than some mythical 'one exe for all boxes' winblowz claptrap
asciilifeform: waiwut
mircea_popescu: "can be ported to new cpu with minimal sweat" is not distinct from "windows claptrap one exe"
asciilifeform: all i want is for the jit compiler's back-end to be sanely written and not married to x86, and for there to not be weird endian dependencies baked in.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: see above.
asciilifeform: this is ALL it means.
mircea_popescu: ah ok, i didn't get what you were saying.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu was probably imagining something like the old crapple 'fat executables' that have 3 sections for 3 cpus
mircea_popescu: pretty sure cmucl's not married to endian-ness. nfi about sanely written tho
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hey, it's been known to happen!
asciilifeform: cmucl won't invoke pthread and as such is not a finished product in my view.
mircea_popescu: yes yews, but to the other two objections you gave.
asciilifeform: (if a lang runs on unix box and can't pthread it is a toy)
phf: that's just empty rhetoric
phf: it runs logs alright ;)
mircea_popescu: lol check out phf with his newly found "fu because battlefield" rhetoric :D
mircea_popescu: rare to see in lispen battle, a deployment of THAT tank division.
asciilifeform: pretty quiet battlefield.
asciilifeform: wait till there is GB/s log demand.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform hey, in geek world the one-girlfriend guy is king.
phf: asciilifeform: threads are the worst possible solution to gb/s log demand
mircea_popescu: yeah srsly. what ?
asciilifeform: lack of threads is a sure boat anchor when you get a hang somewhere.
mircea_popescu: i thought lisp exiosts so you don't "Get a hang somewhere"
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: aha, but then some bozo added tcp to it
mircea_popescu: so he rewrites the tcp state machine in c, what :D
phf: tcp had non-blocking mode for a very long time
mircea_popescu: but is it with utf ?
phf: against, GB/s is consistently solved with non-blocking non-threads
mircea_popescu: ahh this has been a pleasant convo
phf: there are some arguments now (and some successful projects) that solve gb/s with threads, but this whole idea that threads are a solution to gb/s ~in the compotent circles~ is a novel thing. schedulers are getting better, some patterns emerging, tooling is better etc. people coming out with "perhaps doing it with async is not best option anymore". but for years gb/s was achieved with async, reactor pattern, fork/exec
phf: and yes it has unicode :D
phf: but none is the answer to why cmucl, and i don't think there's one. mostly why not? it's a question of discipline for me, can i move slow and not freak out against deficiencies. i think that "looking for silver bullet" is just a waste of time, and there's no way that i can possibly explore entire cmucl solution space, until a whole new set of base capabilities is required
phf: can always switch to sbcl overnight, harder to switch back, since sbcl like any high profile project attracts, accumulates and integrates cockroaches.
mircea_popescu: compotent ?
mircea_popescu: ah you mean component dontcha
phf: competent
mircea_popescu: ah ah.
asciilifeform: phf: i can actually get behind 'thing needs its ~own~ scheduler, ip stack, nic driver...'
mircea_popescu: anyway, the longstanding rule has been that one can use whathever the fuck one wishes, and reap the benefits of maintenance down the road on their own ass.
asciilifeform: how else.
mircea_popescu: in other news, i planted something that was supposed to be "curry", which i had nfi is even a plant wtf, isn't that a spice mix ?
mircea_popescu: then went and fondled the foot tall guys and omfg my kbd hand and everything smells like curry and im salivating
phf: indian perfume
punkman: curry leaves are common in europe aren't they
mircea_popescu: yeah it's a sort of daisy apparently.
punkman: it's a full on tree iirc
mircea_popescu: no, that's the sweet neem thing.
mircea_popescu: this is just a bushy plant, helichrysum italicum
punkman: oic, guess there's a lot of different ones called curry leaves
asciilifeform: 'Then they came to Namecheap where I have a couple of VPS servers, this account also had 2factor SMS authentication required for login. However the hacker opened up a live chat with Namecheap and requested a password reset for the SolusVM VPS panel, at which point, in a massive breach of their security protocols, they sent a plain text email to the comprised address containing both the VPS panel use
asciilifeform: rname (previously unknown to the attacker) and a new password. ' << l0l!!
mircea_popescu: hey, customers have come to expect.
punkman: I don't really like the sweet neem thing, definitely don't use it in currys
mircea_popescu: o, recall the guy that made a passport pic of chetty ?
mircea_popescu: where the fuck was that
mircea_popescu: http://trilema.com/2014/o-hai-let-me-verify-your-identity/
asciilifeform: aha, it
mircea_popescu: punkman i'm not advanced enough to mix my own ; generally just get premixed whatever greater minds think fit and proper.
asciilifeform: ;;later tell phf didja ever make a bookmarkable log url thing ?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-12#1450407 << ben_vulpes this is iirc why the thread was so lulzy☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-04-12 05:55 ben_vulpes: more like "we don't make much over here, and you don't ride bikes, so i don't think this cult is for you"
phf: you mean the recent log bookmarkable url thing?
asciilifeform: it reminds me of a dream i had once, where i was in charge of some kindergarten thing, and a ragged bum knocks on the door, outside - storms, rains, - 'quick, quick, i need to fry in your electric chair!' he gasps. i reply 'sorry, we only have a child-sized one here!' but he persists, squeezes himself in
phf: asciilifeform's dreams are almost kafka stories
phf: ;;later tell asciilifeform which bookmarkable log url thing?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: phf: the one where the logs url should behave sanely, i.e. not redirect to anything but to ~always~ point to the head of the log
asciilifeform: so it can be refreshed on pnohe and similar
phf: i haven't but i'll add it at some point soon. didn't have a bandwidth to hack on anything non-trivial
phf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6W3US8Luo8
asciilifeform: happy cosmonautics day, folkz
shinohai sheds a tear for Yuri.
phf: oh yeah need to call grandma
ben_vulpes: grandma?!
ben_vulpes: phf: just gets cooler and cooler
asciilifeform: >>> http://www.loper-os.org/?p=854 << obligatory
shinohai: But MAH MOON LANDING!!!
asciilifeform: in unrelated nyooz,
asciilifeform: http://imgur.com/a/XWDvs
asciilifeform: ^ not far from where i live
asciilifeform: ^ house stood empty for a few months, and copper thieves stole the heat exchanger coil
ben_vulpes: > house stood empty for a few months
ben_vulpes: weird
asciilifeform: why?
ben_vulpes: tisn't how things work in my part of the world.
ben_vulpes: turnover ~2weeks, unless there's a full renovation in swing.
ben_vulpes: or the place is a condemned dump.
ben_vulpes: or it's 2010 and someone walked on a mortgage.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: it's been 'for sale' for at least half a year actually.
asciilifeform: and, aside from the item in the picture, is not in any seriously bad shape afaik.
ben_vulpes: even /less/ common.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: we have houses here that stood empty for years.
ben_vulpes: and not because people price their houses sanely, no. but because apparently all of california is moving here and will buy at any cost.
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: insane
asciilifeform: the city maintains the outside superficially so that it is not obvious immediately which they are.
ben_vulpes: the...city!?
asciilifeform: aha.
ben_vulpes: and not the property owners?!
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: often there is not a known owner
ben_vulpes: then who is selling it
asciilifeform: ~this one~ has owner
asciilifeform: presumably.
ben_vulpes: ah.
asciilifeform: the empty for years ones - often, not
ben_vulpes: there've been a few squats around town, but with the recent explosion in dirt-demand, they're all getting shuttered and replaced with apartments.
ben_vulpes: http://www.wweek.com/2015/10/15/crowd-gathers-to-support-house-squatters-who-allegedly-partied-with-a-corpse/
ben_vulpes: portland is about as squatter unfriendly as i've ever seen a city.
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 424.53, vol: 6113.25250388 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 420.0, vol: 7357.76405 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 425.99, vol: 14996.78820558 | CampBX BTCUSD last: 425.0, vol: 3.08677667 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 426.266568, vol: 31154.96080000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 426.61, vol: 1100.17508599 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 429.203115, vol: 43.653074 | Volume-weighted last average: (1 more message)
asciilifeform: btc-usd moar stable than my mains voltage...
mircea_popescu: cosmonautics day lmao. you people...
BingoBoingo: ;;more
gribble: 425.273152803
mircea_popescu: lol won space race. ehehehe
mircea_popescu: where did you find the redbeard ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: from, iirc, some ru www. eons ago.
shinohai: So airbnb acquired Changetip. I guess now when people lose 67 cents sleeping on your sofa you can convert it to satoshi right there.
mircea_popescu: dude that copper thieve shit... used ac unit is 200 bucks, contains 8 bucks worth of scavengeable metal.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 8 bux for phreeeee
asciilifeform: and it isn't as if anyone catches these folks, or the buyers, and pours molten copper down their necks
asciilifeform: (or hangs'em high from the hv masts which they - likewise - plunder)
mircea_popescu: still.
asciilifeform: who ever heard of a vermin thinking 'i'ma only make 8 bux but do 10,000 worth of damage, i'd better not' ?
mircea_popescu: see, if ~I~ were running the socialist state, there'd be a tax penalty and a 6 mo administrative (ie, no judge involved) jail sentence for keeping property empty a full quarter.
mircea_popescu: tax penalty = you get no offsets this year. or somesuch. you get bonus next tax bracket. something.
mircea_popescu: shinohai lmao win.
asciilifeform: against whom ? usg's own bank ?
mircea_popescu: great angle for qntra.
asciilifeform: (in virtually all cases, the actual title holder...)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform bank clerk in charge of the particular real estate, sure.
mircea_popescu: my socialism sees through corporate pretense. like the damned thing does by default, except in the crazy us implementation.
asciilifeform: the interesting bit is that the empty, decaying, plundered properties are ~part of the program~
asciilifeform: it is how they keep the bezzlatronic prices up.
mircea_popescu: yeah, and part and parcel of the explanation as to WHY us "won the space race"
asciilifeform: and a natural outgrowth of 'NO cheap houses, EVER'
mircea_popescu: and every other race, war, confrontation and anything else.
mircea_popescu: fucking addicted to bad resource allocation.
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: didja see http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/15/business/dealbook/goldman-to-pay-5-billion-to-settle-claims-of-faulty-mortgages.html
ben_vulpes: also iirc copping to fradulent statements in securitization documents
shinohai: ^ I almost Qntra'd that today ben_vulpes
asciilifeform: ^ guess how many pennies of this will go to the folks ~actually~ shafted (who? the ones who did NOT get phreeeeeee house from obummer's scam)
ben_vulpes: shinohai: what'd the qntra angle be?
ben_vulpes: asciilifeform: that's not how things work!
asciilifeform: aha.
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes aha.
shinohai: I didn't figure out an angle for it, therefore left it to simmer on back burner.
ben_vulpes: AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
ben_vulpes cackles madly back into the aws java sdk
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes kinda why the whole "usg takes as much from 'coffers' of usg corps as it needs" thing in macroeconomy discussion few days ago.
mircea_popescu: it\s a joke, this "enforcing" mechanism. consists of nothing more than me presenting a signed check to a company i own
mircea_popescu: whatever the fuck i write on it, it's still gonna pay.
asciilifeform: the other observation is that the house-builders and title-holding banks do not need anyone to actually live in the property to make their printolade.
mircea_popescu: shinohai wasn't it 3 months ago ?
asciilifeform: they are perfectly ok with the thing being a permanent 'trading sardine' even as thieves rip out the copper pipes.
mircea_popescu: like everything else in that country. this stuff is painfully visible, and so ridiculous on some level.
mircea_popescu: but the sad fact is that most us companies' stock in trade is "intellectual property"
mircea_popescu: mostly, lists of various things nobody cares about.
asciilifeform: gogol's 'dead souls'.
mircea_popescu: it's no coincidence that all the us "culture" can produce is "10 ways to bla bla".
mircea_popescu: it's really all it's about.
asciilifeform: 10 wayz to write 10 waiz list !1111
phf: journalists hate it!
asciilifeform: learn the trick trick learnerz haet!1111
mircea_popescu: 10 sick ways to better health.
mircea_popescu: ;;google carlin is the greatest and "how to make money renting out the space inside your nose"
gribble: George Carlin Talks About "Stuff" - YouTube: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MvgN5gCuLac>; Humor - Quotes - BG Info: <http://www.bg-info.com/humor_-_quotes.html>; dumb questions - things that make you go hmmm - Corsinet: <http://www.corsinet.com/braincandy/stupid.html>
shinohai: https://i.imgur.com/I6EUXwo.jpg <<< looking for pron, find Stalin on the subway instead.
mircea_popescu: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=854&cpage=1#comment-2720 << if you recall, someone did. a humorless german dude, and as a result italy gets to fraudulently claim it's a "nation" and "part of europe", rather than the arab brothel sicily was leading it towards throughout the middle ages (which, there, last until 1960 and after)
mircea_popescu: possibly the worst political cock-up of all time, trying to empirebuild with italians.
mircea_popescu: and then the dumbass germans went and TRIED IT AGAIN!
mircea_popescu: (and since we're discussing german firsts - the fucking reason steak's so good today is that well... ww1 germanz needed leather, imported as much as argentina could produce. so it begun.)
phf: asciilifeform: http://www.hack.org/mc/mgr/ a very unixy x11 alternative, the windowing protocol is essentially escape codes back and forth
asciilifeform: 'If you want to compare MGR to the X Window System, you might consider the MGR server as something like a combination of an X server + window manager + xterm, but with xterm's Tektronix 4014 graphics terminal emulation and its DEC VT100 emulation in the same window.' << looks to me like it is of archaeological interest solely
asciilifeform: 1.1MB TGZ of src !11 this does not appear to be in any serious way 'lighter' or more fits-in-head-sy than x11.
asciilifeform: and it appears that i could not push arbitrary moving pictures through it, or use 'ratpoison'
asciilifeform: ergo useless.
asciilifeform: if it were 50kB of c, it might've been intriguing.
asciilifeform: here's an observation,
asciilifeform: symbolics co. sold quite a few boxes ~the only~ UI to which was x11 over the lan.
asciilifeform: there was literally ~nothing~ that beat this, then.
asciilifeform: and there is STILL not.
asciilifeform: note, these were lispms, and they implemented x protocol.
asciilifeform: just for the ui.
asciilifeform: this was so that buyer could use, e.g., a 'sun', as a console
asciilifeform: instead of buying a symbolics console for the cost of a 'toyota'
asciilifeform: but somehow the company's reputation as 'evil vendor of closed $maxint machinery' did not thereby perish.
asciilifeform: (the fact that virtually ALL of their products shipped WITH SOURCE, also somehow did not affect it)
mircea_popescu: odd how reputation works [in wotless worlds]
asciilifeform: who can fully apprehend that 30 MOTHERFUCKING YEARS was not enough to make ANY notable improvement on xwindows?!!!!111
asciilifeform: (as discussed in an old mircea_popescu thread, there ~is~ room for improvement.)
asciilifeform: but it ~blows my mind~ that, in world where there is an x11, idiot derps for DECADES successfully peddled 'remote desktop' atrocities
BingoBoingo: <shinohai> I didn't figure out an angle for it, therefore left it to simmer on back burner. << maybe start writing, see if an angle emerges?
phf: asciilifeform: of course it is of archaeological interest, jeez have to make disclaimers on links, else get wall of logs ;)
ben_vulpes: i liked that particular WAL
mircea_popescu: lol!
mircea_popescu: and in unrelated news, h heine is an utter shithead.
phf: speaking of walls and x11, i walked into a comment section of some "game ported to linux" post. guy opted for native xlib/opengl, so he got a wall full of "x11 is deprecated, everyone's moving to wayland, use sdl2". ironically in the post itself he says " when searching for answers to questions that weren’t made quite clear in the documentation, often people that had the same questions I did received answers like ‘Use SDL’, or ‘Use GTK
phf: or Qt’. That’s amazingly frustrating and just adds noise to the internet." http://www.shiningrocksoftware.com/2016-04-09-thoughts-on-linux/
mircea_popescu: deprecated my foot.
mircea_popescu: eulora uses opengl, and that's ~100% of all linux gaming.
phf: well, they deprecated gnupg, they can deprecate x11. people on linux!
mircea_popescu: this derpage, i swear.
mircea_popescu: let me guess, it was "community consensus" on reddit, on the basis of their locally mutated gavin and some "experts" they consulted.
mircea_popescu: srsly tho, do a search for linux gaming one day, you'll fall over.
mircea_popescu: it's like 1989 never came.
shinohai: BingoBoingo: been trying to take your advice and do just that, write crap for no good reason
shinohai: though no blog yet.
BingoBoingo: shinohai: It's the only way to learn. I discovered that when I took mircea_popescu's advice and started writing crap.
phf: mircea_popescu: nethack
phf: oh wait, right 1989
shinohai: Only reasonable way I know to acquire shares/Bitcoins to hoard. Unless go back to reddit and suck ass for changetip.
mircea_popescu: phf right ?
mircea_popescu: shinohai he has a point ; there's no other way than practice.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: You had that point before I did.
shinohai: anywho am grateful for the opportunity to contribute somewhat.
BingoBoingo: Keep coming back. It works when you work it.
shinohai: SO it appears the airbnb/changetip deal doesn't involve the changetip codebase.
shinohai: Solid use of that 3.5 million in funding for sure, no one wants the shit.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2016-04-12#1450713 << gtk & sdl ride happily on top of x...☝︎
a111: Logged on 2016-04-12 22:36 phf: speaking of walls and x11, i walked into a comment section of some "game ported to linux" post. guy opted for native xlib/opengl, so he got a wall full of "x11 is deprecated, everyone's moving to wayland, use sdl2". ironically in the post itself he says " when searching for answers to questions that weren’t made quite clear in the documentation, often people that had the same questions I did received answers like ‘Use SDL’, or ‘Use GTK
phf: freedesktop strategy is to create an abstraction layer on top of base tools that makes things "simpler", and then transparently switch the base. in this case value of gtk & sdl to wreckers is that they both operate on wayland already. sdl seems somewhat sane but i wouldn't be surprised if gnome deprecates their X support at some point
asciilifeform: and iirc 'wayland' is one of those infuriating idiocies where 'want remote proggy? here's a DESKTOP, in a 1024x768 box'
mircea_popescu: phf very much so aha.
mircea_popescu: not a bad strategy either, it got ustards off cars.
mircea_popescu: "nobody could understand what's inside the engine"
deedbot-: [Qntra] FBI Investigates Soup Can Heist - http://qntra.net/2016/04/fbi-investigates-soup-can-heist/
BingoBoingo: ^ From the "of course" file
phf: fwiw gtk has been compromising x for year, that's where "remote x is useless" misconception comes from. you can run x emacs on a dialup even (i was doing it on dsl in the early 2000s), but of course running any kind of gtk app fails miserably, because library pushes gratuitous (and unoptimizable by simple RLE) gradients across wire just to render a button.
asciilifeform: the microshitifucation of linux will not be truly complete until users have to grunt with 'remote desktop' idiocy
asciilifeform: phf: even gtk apps work fine on gigabit lan
asciilifeform: i routinely use, e.g., ida pro under 'wine' over x11 over tcp.
ben_vulpes: the microshitification of linux will not be complete until ms ships a windows that also does all of the linux syscalls
mats: in progress
mats: i'm curious what is going to happen with the syscalls that don't map cleanly
ben_vulpes: yes in progress that's why i bring it up
phf: mats: i think they are going the linux-in-userspace route
phf: so they have a linux kernel manage the processes, and then they write keyboard/"console"/mouse drivers for it
phf: they could probably make it as intrusive as they want
mats: i don't think so
mats: they're bringing back the 'personalities' feature
asciilifeform: or they could buy & enslave 'cygwin', which was this already.
shinohai: BingoBoingo: perhaps can use: http://ix.io/wpc
mats: what i remember from the BUILD keynote about this is there's an ELF loader and translate syscalls
BingoBoingo: shinohai: ty
mats: phf: https://insights.ubuntu.com/2016/03/30/ubuntu-on-windows-the-ubuntu-userspace-for-windows-developers
phf: asciilifeform: i don't think cygwin translates syscalls, it was more of half-baked mingw
mats: http://www.codeproject.com/Articles/543542/Windows-x-system-service-hooks-and-advanced-debu << this was kinda neat
phf: mats: ah, so that makes sense
mats: i don't understand what kind of strategic advantage they see in this
mats: TIL you can hook syscall returns from usermode