log☇︎
2000+ entries in 0.139s
mircea_popescu: it is trying to fix the trb, which is a component of the c machine, defined as "runs trb"
mircea_popescu: in any proper statement, all the eg trb foundation's work goes towards one fold of "fixing c machine" in this sense.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform "runs trb".
mircea_popescu: phf yeah, but still, we have some experience with the neat trb building process. it can be done.
ben_vulpes: anyways, hey asciilifeform have you ever built the trb test target?
asciilifeform: builds static trb, bootable initrd+kernel, busybox userland, ~5MB (littleendian arm) package all in all.
nacci: perhaps the republic will need to maintain its own os in which to run trb
ben_vulpes: trb just looks through the script for pubkey or pubkey hash opcodes
scriba: Logged on 2017-03-28: [23:57:45] <asciilifeform> ( possibly -- if some hero devotes several years to it, trb-style -- but even then )
asciilifeform: theoretically trb & prb permit 'tx replacement' idiocy
asciilifeform: ( possibly -- if some hero devotes several years to it, trb-style -- but even then )
phf: in fact, i static linked a copy of trb on a recent machine (5.6 say), and then moved it to a libretto (that was running 5.3 or whatever) and the binary booted and worked, but then silently failed on some system calls.
mod6: i realized when trying to diagram out, for instance, the notated split of trb.node with trb.wallet (posted in logs a little while back) that I didn't have enough paper on 8.5"x11"
mod6: trb in orbit
diana_coman: mod6, list of deps for trb from what I gathered on a fresh, minimal centos box: bc, gcc, g++, gpg, wget, perl, patch, rsync, sha512sum, unzip
a111: Logged on 2017-03-26 16:10 asciilifeform: 'Hello asciilifeform I see on coin.dance/nodes , The Real Bitcoin is listed with the 'Emergent Consensus' feature tag. Could you tell me if that's accurate - will you follow a HF to > 1MB , and could you tell me anything about how it's implemented in TRB ? Thx!'
asciilifeform: 'Hello asciilifeform I see on coin.dance/nodes , The Real Bitcoin is listed with the 'Emergent Consensus' feature tag. Could you tell me if that's accurate - will you follow a HF to > 1MB , and could you tell me anything about how it's implemented in TRB ? Thx!' ☟︎
asciilifeform: the other open seekrit re classical trb : and afaik applies equally to various prbs : there is no means whereby to introduce a martian reorg consisting of >1 block, such that it will actually get processed.
asciilifeform: ( reorg in trb is also ~ruinously~ expensive )
asciilifeform: classical trb simply throws those out, as malformed rubbish in ProcessBlock()
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, mmm, on contemplation the issue might just be mp logotron reports "failed reorg" when the purporting-to-generate-reorg block failed to actually verify. old prb/trb don't.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-26#1632698 << zero instances in my trb logs to date, mp_en_viaje ☝︎
asciilifeform: say, for instance, kako's 'trb is broken, won't push my p2sholade'
asciilifeform: iirc prb doesn't even maintain a socket with trb , starting with 11 or so
mp_en_viaje: asciilifeform, this was re the "our new v 13 nodes will not accept blocks relayed by trb"
a111: Logged on 2017-03-24 21:40 TomServo: I was just curious if anyone else saw this in there trb, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WRtLs/?raw=true
asciilifeform: also what patch set do you use, TomServo ? my trb doesn't have time stamps, for instance.
TomServo: asciilifeform: time is okay, other than trb logs being gmt system is cdt. disk okay. Yes, earliest.
TomServo: I was just curious if anyone else saw this in there trb, http://p.bvulpes.com/pastes/WRtLs/?raw=true ☟︎
pete_dushenski: mircea_popescu: 'Every service is in a dedicated VM container' << i'm not clear on difference between vm and vps, but i have at least one trb box on vm it seems.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-23 04:46 pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-22#1631221 << define 'possible'. >x connections ? doesn't crash ? because i've been running trb on vps since it came out and have no particular complaints other than semi-regular st9 errors.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-22 23:34 mircea_popescu: tbh i have nfi how you could run trb in a vps. i don't think it's possible, not really. would be certainly quite the medal of merit on any software that can handle such.
pete_dushenski: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-22#1631221 << define 'possible'. >x connections ? doesn't crash ? because i've been running trb on vps since it came out and have no particular complaints other than semi-regular st9 errors. ☝︎☟︎
mircea_popescu: tbh i have nfi how you could run trb in a vps. i don't think it's possible, not really. would be certainly quite the medal of merit on any software that can handle such. ☟︎
asciilifeform: ( and you couldn't put, e.g., trb in there. )
trinque: mod6: I'm quite happy to host anything that supports trb work
mod6: <+trinque> strike that, all trb deps mod6 deeded; he is hosting the V stuff. << fwiw it's also posted to the ML which is on some other environment.
trinque: strike that, all trb deps mod6 deeded; he is hosting the V stuff.
trinque: ftr, all trb downloads come from a dedicated deeds box I've been happy to run as core infrastructure pro bono.
asciilifeform: ben_vulpes: http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-January/000033.html << arm cross-flags example (from ye olde trb)
mod6: You will find that The Bitcoin Foundation website has duly been updated as well as the TRB How-To Steps (nothing more has changed than the version number of the tarball to grab for V).
shinohai: "If you upgrade to trb, this has been fixed for ages" <<< /me wants to comment
mod6: well, yeah, i've got a new dedicated box that is trb w/wires and currently syncing from thin air.
phf: ben_vulpes: we're not actually discussing various relative merritts of various who calls, because we don't have any problem in mind. for trb clion's who-calls is above and beyond anything emacs provides, for genera's clim ~genera~ is way better at who calls, etc.
asciilifeform: bulldozer that amplifies my intelligence and makes such thing as, e.g., unravelling trb, possible, is not 'balcony tomato'.
ben_vulpes: trb is "the real bitcoin"
lulcoinz: trb specifically (I know what a btc node is)
shinohai: lulcoinz: http://thebitcoin.foundation/trb-howto.html
lulcoinz: what is a trb node (sorry for my ignorance)
ben_vulpes: no but seriously, why even bother hoping? run a trb node, insulate yourself from the retardation.
ben_vulpes: WHERE ARE THE TRB TOKENS, EH?
asciilifeform: ( anyone here tried trb on bigendian ? i -- have not )
a111: Logged on 2017-03-20 00:42 mod6: So I'll be getting into the thick of that very soon. Lot to do to get trb-i going.
asciilifeform: http://btcbase.org/log/2017-03-20#1629232 << trbi, with the fixed-length-everythings, needs ~no fancy indexer at all. it's for a hypothetical sane-trb. ☝︎
Framedragger: (current version records the important things including trb work, so imho it's doing fine)
Framedragger: i guess having an easy way to add new projects (or have a 'misc' parent but maybe that's too dirty) would help in that it'd be easier to record stuff, including tasks not directly tied to trb or V
mod6: So I'll be getting into the thick of that very soon. Lot to do to get trb-i going. ☟︎
mod6: I do want to outline more of the trb-i work in tickets, and do some clean-up/management of existing trb tickets.
a111: Logged on 2017-03-17 07:21 davout: in other TRB news, my node is happily bitcoining, doesn't seem too bothered by working with a regular HDD, and that's without asciilifeform's cache patch
davout: in other TRB news, my node is happily bitcoining, doesn't seem too bothered by working with a regular HDD, and that's without asciilifeform's cache patch ☟︎
a111: Logged on 2017-02-27 16:56 mircea_popescu: but the correct trb-i might just as well end up this situation where block reward is 1mn bitcoin, and it dies within 1mn blocks. so all mining does is produce ~ a lease ~ on a chunk of bitcoin. and the value of old bitcoin is monotonically decreasing over their lifetime.
asciilifeform: davout: per current trb rules (which , see earlier, is different from prb's ! even) A gotta be spent before it can reappear.
asciilifeform: if you can re-introduce an old coinbase -- which you can , if it has been spent, per trb rules -- you (or anyone else) can afterwards reintroduce any and all tx that had that coinbase as an input
asciilifeform: trb, i will note, already will not relay any attempt to spend anything not already in a block.
asciilifeform: ^ this is a question that can be answered exactly , using a patched trb
asciilifeform: it would instead manifest as one or more chains of tx that a trb node -- a particular one, that saw the particular magic orphan -- mysteriously does not want to spend the outputs of.
asciilifeform: now for the practical consequence. what this means, as far as i can tell, is that there can exist -- may already exist -- chains of tx in trb, that cannot be walked back to a coinbase.
asciilifeform: trb as it exists , permits a new tx having same hash as old, so long as old one was spent.
asciilifeform: 50* was spent, and per trb rules, garbagecollected from the index
asciilifeform: as i understand, it will validate, in trb.
asciilifeform: sooo per my reckoning, you can have sane-trb-indexer, but now every tx gotta have a field for 'was replaced?' -- and if bit is set, indexer goes and looks at the collision table, the previous lookup now 'didn't count'
asciilifeform: also it is not clear to me that trb ever... worked, in the customary sense of the word. what, for instance, happens if you actually carry out the -- entirely legal per all known btctrons -- replacement of a ~spent~ coinbase tx ?
asciilifeform: but possibly now mircea_popescu sees what asciilifeform meant by 'trbi is much EASIER problem than working-trb'
asciilifeform: and i don't mean trb
mircea_popescu: this is at the core of the argument in favour of a trb-i implementation.
asciilifeform: this is not an original discovery, there's a magic case for it in trb
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 90% of the retardation of trb is that objects live in heap and are all part of a massive ball of yarn, linked to one another
mircea_popescu: tho trb was made to adhere pretty closely.
asciilifeform: that thing also runs various housekeeping systems, aside from trb. like a champ.
mircea_popescu: honestly, it should just be a patch. there's no serious reason to allow the usage of trb on tiny boxes
davout: du -sh ~/.trb reports 131gb
a111: Logged on 2017-03-15 06:46 davout: my trb node is finally synced up, took approx ~2.5 months on a smallish server without an SSD
davout: my trb node is finally synced up, took approx ~2.5 months on a smallish server without an SSD ☟︎
deedbot: http://www.contravex.com/2017/03/14/a-quick-recipe-for-pressing-experimental-trb-trees/ << » Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski - A quick recipe for pressing experimental TRB trees.
mircea_popescu: after all, dead & replaced trb === fork.
asciilifeform: sorta the point of trb.
asciilifeform: accepts a block that ye olde trb wouldn'tve
Framedragger: ..which means that the latter should be dropped eventually, i guess (but then cue my question 'why not just work on trb-i if no compatibility with heathen prb network')
Framedragger: i think it makes sense, thinking of the future, to eventually move to a model where there is no 'public trb node ip list'.
Framedragger: asciilifeform: btw regarding bitcoin, sure re. 1000 machines but if/when there's only 15 or however many trb nodes....
Framedragger: (this is just to juxtapose topics of trb and gossipd for a second and to maybe show why some folks really like the lighthouse idea) :)
asciilifeform: ACHTUNG, panzers! ben_vulpes , trinque : trb node at dulap will be unavailable for next ~hour .
mod6: so either user creates ~/trb-deps and then pulls all .asc's from deedbot manually in offline mode. or makefile creates ~/trb-deps and pulls .asc files in `make ONLINE=1` mode and dumps files in there.
trinque: makefile would make the dir, maybe ~/trb-deps as default, or w/e
mod6: this would leave, for instance, a 'trb' output press directory along side of the above stated dirs. of which, all that would be contained in there is a bitcoin directory, and the underlying 'src' directory.
asciilifeform: if i had a ticket to the mythical planet where programmers aren't retarded and 'the shame of poverty' is not smelled, we would not even be having the trb conversation.
asciilifeform: trinque: don't put wire-trb on your icbm-controller box. the skull is there for a reason.
mircea_popescu: ok, so now with the built trb with ssh patch...
asciilifeform: and you aint backing up 'this box' but the trb deps. that got frozen 4evah.
mircea_popescu: that build happened in ~/trb/rotor/TEST2 etc