BingoBoingo: What, those are some tig ole bitties
gabriel_laddel: you kid, correct?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60600 @ 0.00036995 = 22.419 BTC [+] {2}
gabriel_laddel: in other news: http://www.shadbase.com/black-humor/
assbot: Shädbase - Black Humor ... ( http://bit.ly/1Ne3XJV )
BingoBoingo: Sometimes you have to look past everything else and jsut acknowledge some big titties.
gabriel_laddel: myeah. no.
gabriel_laddel: !up jordandotdev
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65800 @ 0.00037281 = 24.5309 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 81856 @ 0.00037283 = 30.5184 BTC [+]
pete_dushenski: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_INR8ZXIAIIs2q.jpg << lulzy shot of coinbase orderbook, allegedly from earlier today, showing an order for *negative* bitcoin
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ELm1HO )
adlai: pete_dushenski: where's that from?
pete_dushenski: guy on twitter, lemme find the link
asciilifeform: pay'em to take it away
pete_dushenski: https://twitter.com/KyleHolzhauer/status/572534708594208770
assbot: /coinbase what's going on here... Shenanigans I tell ya http://t.co/Skb7C0FLkp
cazalla: seen a few variations of that pop up
pete_dushenski: remarkable..
adlai: i'm ashamed to admit that i have no clue what idiocy could produce such an error
Pierre_Rochard: tried it myself, got “Invalid size” error. May be an API bug (or photoshopped)
cazalla: was here a week back http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/2x24lp/what_do_negative_bids_mean_coinbase_exchange/
assbot: What do negative bids mean? (Coinbase Exchange) : Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1ELmolF )
pete_dushenski: Pierre_Rochard hello hello !
cazalla: client side apparently.. not that i'd know
Pierre_Rochard: pete_dushenski: hello! how’s the new ride been treating you?
pete_dushenski: lol it's rock solid in the winter
pete_dushenski: starts up every time
Pierre_Rochard: do you need chains on the wheels or are they civilized enough to sweep?
nubbins`: hi
pete_dushenski: nubbins`heyo
pete_dushenski: Pierre_Rochard they plow, sweep, etc. plus i have blizzak winter tires
pete_dushenski: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/19465/breaking-canadian-exchange-quadrigacx-become-worlds-first-publicly-traded-bitcoin-exchange/ << i met the owner of this thing last year, gerald
assbot: Breaking: Canadian Exchange QuadrigaCX to Become World’s First Publicly Traded Bitcoin Exchange – Bitcoin Magazine ... ( http://bit.ly/1ELmFF6 )
pete_dushenski: at the time it seemed like a basement operation
pete_dushenski: now, going 'public'
nubbins`: dat feb state of bitcoin address
BingoBoingo: !up Guest37440
Pierre_Rochard: ^ what I’m waiting for is an exchange with segregated fiat accounts held by a custodian bank. May be wishful thinking
pete_dushenski: Pierre_Rochard so basically a bank you already know and trust with a btc trading platform
Pierre_Rochard: not necessarily the same entity but in practice yes
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: http://cryptome.org/2015-info/guardian-redact/guardian-redact.htm << wtf ?
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ELn4ro )
asciilifeform: (who filmed ?)
asciilifeform: or was it idiot after-the-fact mock-up
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: they have nothing. this is proof positive that the cia is as worthless as the vassar feminist book club; think about hassling beria in that manner << to be fair, p. was no longer heading anything when he was 'flushed'.
asciilifeform: hruschev was a whole gensec and what did that get him after retirement.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: I may have to watch again less drunk, but I believe Poitras was behind the camera most of the time.
BingoBoingo: !up MartinPonce
BingoBoingo: Hello MartinPonce
pete_dushenski: asciilifeform i'm guessing after the fact.
nubbins`: for those of you who collect shiny things:
nubbins`: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=975256.0
assbot: Casascius 0.5 BTC Silver Series-2 physical bitcoin: NO RESERVE, 30-DAY AUCTION ... ( http://bit.ly/1F6Zxiw )
pete_dushenski: Pierre_Rochard anything new on your end these days ? any accounting software updates ?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: beria actually picked up women... << based on the sources, i don't regard it as a solid historical fact
gabriel_laddel: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=03-03-2015#1039672 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2015 08:58:24; mircea_popescu: " They also remember the high-tech crash of 1984, and the screams of pain up and down Wall Street." << heh it nearly killed gaming altogether, and is responsible for killing consoles. (yes they still exist, but gaming is essentially a pc item)
gabriel_laddel: ^ ummm... http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/01/playstation-4-passes-18-5-million-sales-worldwide/
assbot: PlayStation 4 passes 18.5 million sales worldwide | Ars Technica ... ( http://bit.ly/1ELo12U )
Pierre_Rochard: pete_dushenski: I’ve split the accounting logic from the webapp so that it’s just a python package. Cleaner and decrufted. Getting close to a stable-enough version to write up documentation
gabriel_laddel: as for the original PSP, 76.3 million sales (as of March 31, 2012)
gabriel_laddel: (worldwide)
pete_dushenski: Pierre_Rochard awesome
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: One of the safest assumptions from the film though is that one of the core group of Snowden journalists had at some poin been turned or always was an unsavory side vegetable. Likely Greenwald, likely before meeting snowden in HK.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 77700 @ 0.00037428 = 29.0816 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/2008/02/26/sand_wont_save_you_this_time.php
assbot: Sand Won't Save You This Time. In the Pipeline: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ELotOq )
BingoBoingo: ^ Potentially useful for home 100nm IC fab
nubbins`: pete_dushenski re: quadriga going public, here's the exchange: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Securities_Exchange
assbot: Canadian Securities Exchange - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1ELp1Ec )
BingoBoingo: http://web.archive.org/web/20060318221608/http://www.airproducts.com/nr/rdonlyres/8479ed55-2170-4651-a3d4-223b2957a9f3/0/safetygram39.pdf
pete_dushenski: nubbins` ayup.
decimation: pete_dushenski: segregated fiat? like 100% reserve, physical bills laying in a warehouse?
nubbins`: uh, what?
nubbins`: quadrigacx lets you deposit gold
decimation: nubbins`: can you withdraw gold?
nubbins`: yes
nubbins`: RCM 1oz bars
BingoBoingo: nubbins`: Dunchu No, U let everyone deposit everything and just hope some sort of market stability sticks
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46200 @ 0.00037631 = 17.3855 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: gabriel_laddel: notice how the remaining consoles are lightly-modified x86 boxes internally ?
nubbins` shrugs
nubbins`: wild
nubbins`: gold->btc easier if this works
pete_dushenski: decimation lol don't ask me, it's Pierre_Rochard's fantasy
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: And the previous generation PowerPC. Pure Apple style trechery.
pete_dushenski: BingoBoingo which new console is running powerpc guts ?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: actually no secret why. no one (and i mean no one) is making a serious serial-execution non-x86 cpu today
asciilifeform: no one.
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Neither, but the Ms360 and PS3 were bother powerPC
decimation: I don't think we yanks can send money to canadian banks
pete_dushenski: heh, who knew that i have a powerpc collecting dust at home!
pete_dushenski: decimation paypal.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Amazing the damage a single decade does
decimation: pete_dushenski: paypal does canadian EFT?
Pierre_Rochard: decimation: this is about separating the traders’ cash from the exchange’s cash. Comingling of funds is not a good idea, as you point out it can lead to “fractional reserve” by the exchange (more precisely, defalcation)
pete_dushenski: decimation it does indeed.
gabriel_laddel: asciilifeform: Nope.
decimation: Pierre_Rochard: yeah that makes sense
BingoBoingo: Then again the PowerPC console generation came as Apple left the architecture and IBM wanted anyone else to jsutify its continued work there
asciilifeform: plenty of ppc in usg proprietary machinery
decimation: Pierre_Rochard: I kinda assumed that non-scam exchanges would do this, but apparently nobody can resist
asciilifeform: (but not enough for a legit commercial fab to turn a profit unless 'favourite son')
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: The value of the game consoles was the illusion of volume
BingoBoingo: Or illusion of viability through volume
BingoBoingo: But M$ in particular hit the same issues that sent Apple away "Red Ring of Death"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41600 @ 0.00037652 = 15.6632 BTC [+]
gabriel_laddel: "illusion of volume" << ?
BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: Intended meaning one line lower. Vodka time
ben_vulpes: !rate vhost- 2 taught me much
assbot: Request successful, get your OTP: http://w.b-a.link/otp/c419dfe455e10429
BingoBoingo: http://www.ntp.org/ntpfaq/NTP-a-faq.htm#Q-META-CSS-STYLE >> Last word on design ever
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ELsceX )
ben_vulpes: !v assbot:ben_vulpes.rate.vhost-.2:45f33ea63fd332565cd5944c27d4e2d71efa99db12620aef65556fa23229d0f5
assbot: Successfully added a rating of 2 for vhost- with note: taught me much
BingoBoingo: And the only thing about Javascript that matters is >> http://www.ntp.org/ntpfaq/NTP-a-faq.htm#AEN562
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ELsqTi )
BingoBoingo: !up Guest21461
BingoBoingo: !up ebit_
decimation: BingoBoingo: that CIF3 stuff is nasty
BingoBoingo: decimation: Of course it is, but... semiconductor lithography... In the neighbor's shed!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28500 @ 0.00036354 = 10.3609 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 58800 @ 0.00037883 = 22.2752 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 281.84, vol: 18796.51371096 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 278.38, vol: 19043.02781 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 283.73, vol: 78418.16176281 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 282.3469, vol: 147610.75430000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 278.35492, vol: 22.49694774 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 287.325999989, vol: 177.90471922 | Volume-weighted last average: 282.438491329
decimation: re: petraeus < I said they would never prosecute, and I'm not sure if I'm right or not
decimation: it will be interesting to see how he is sentenced
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: read the ClF3 link again, notice that it is used in si fab solely for cleaning tools.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Sure, but cleaning after the fact is the next best thing to starting from a clean workspace
BingoBoingo: decimation: Basically it seems the objective of the scandal was to keep him out of national politics. Mission accomplished as it rarely is.
asciilifeform: the gas is merely one of 1,000 reasons why the fab costs what it does.
asciilifeform: it is interesting to compare, in this respect, the semiconductor industry to... nuclear one
asciilifeform: entirely workable schemes ('intrinsically safe' reactors made of pellets, etc.) have been proposed for reasonably inexpensive fission plants for home use
asciilifeform: no one was in a great hurry to buy - but there were designs
asciilifeform: si fab on the other hand:
asciilifeform: zilch.
BingoBoingo: Sure, Just cutting out safety seems to open a number of options. Like it does in batteries.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30300 @ 0.00036354 = 11.0153 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: cutting out completely looks rather like this: http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/jp_tankhunters/fig1_japanese_lunge_mine_antitank.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1ELxabN )
decimation: BingoBoingo: that's an interesting angle on petraeus (keeping him out of politics)
decimation: of course nearly everyone in washington is guilty of exactly the same crimes
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: for most engineered items, even for suicide soldiers, one finds something less extreme
decimation: yeah, nuclear reactors are actually pretty simple in principle
asciilifeform: decimation: how many usg employees that were once dealing in official secrets would come up entirely clean if their belongings were searched ? as in, not even a 'post-it note'
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Well, but I imagine applications of walking biodiesel
decimation: asciilifeform: well, look at that diane roark chick
BingoBoingo: decimation: The thing is he took the post as an active duty officer and the affair itself presented another potentially chargeable crime.
decimation: agents took nearly all of her personal papers and 'decided' which ones were actually classified at their own discretion
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: these only get 'clintonized' if someone wills it to happen
decimation: then they argue that the courts are not able to decide these matters
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: because subject 'needs to have problems'
decimation: BingoBoingo: yes, but under the ucmj
BingoBoingo: decimation: But UMCJ would have applied. Part of the way to defanging nation.
decimation: BingoBoingo: eh?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Of course. Petraeus's greatest problem was going as high as a primate could go. Purely sublizard being
decimation: someone at DOJ had an agenda against him
BingoBoingo: decimation: Higher you go the more UCMJ hit if it is applied
decimation: everything usg does has a civil servant with an agenda behind it
decimation: BingoBoingo: yeah, but instead he's going to jail instead of taking a demotion
decimation: I don't get how that is even in the same ballpark
BingoBoingo: decimation: Hasn't been sentenced yet. Anyways UCMJ provides for the occasional death penalty
decimation: at any rate, I suspect the whole petraeus affair is merely designed to pour encourager les autres while simultaneously dinging a potential political rival
BingoBoingo remembers in early 2012 before scandal Petraeus being floated as a more serious threat to Obola than Congress
decimation: !up Dr-G
BingoBoingo: !up bitspill
BingoBoingo: !up bitstein
BingoBoingo: Oh, the Harry Potter thing updated with two new chapters and still isn't over yet.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46777 @ 0.00036097 = 16.8851 BTC [-] {2}
decimation: “There is light in the world, and it is us!" Eliezer Yudkowsky, Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality << "We are the ones we've been waiting for" Obama
BingoBoingo still only on chapter 66 and closing chapters, which ought to be expected as I'm from a town with "auf wiedersehen" on the signs at its borders
BingoBoingo: !up roseebit
trinque: decimation: hilarious how close that is to christian rhetoric
trinque: same heaven on earth myth too
trinque: just with gadgets
decimation: trinque: as a Christian I find their statements abhorrent
decimation: because it asserts a form of 'christianity' without Christ
decimation: "man is your god, and I am your prophet"
trinque: right-o, it's a sort of techno-atheist christianity
BingoBoingo is dissapoint in this fanfic/propaganda piece. Halfway through and no fucking?
trinque: decimation: seems like bitcoin has attracted a lot of christians, not that I mind. I'm curious why that is, if so
decimation: BingoBoingo: what about your woodchipper fetish harry potter?
trinque: maybe there are more out there than I think
BingoBoingo: decimation: Had the virtue of being short. At least blood has a lubricant quality all its own.
BingoBoingo: decimation: And I did not write the woodchipper fanfic. Merely found it searching for tales of awesome machines.
decimation: trinque: for myself, my interest in bitcoin flows directly from my interest in competent government
trinque: makes sense
decimation: I also think the fiat machine that enables mass theft from everyone's savings is a form of usary
danielpbarron: decimation, what do you think of this?: Revelation 13:16 He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, 17 and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or[a] the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
gabriel_laddel: ...
trinque: danielpbarron: sounds like antibitcoin
danielpbarron: "no one may buy or sell except one who has ... the number of his name"
danielpbarron: isn't a private key a number?
trinque: danielpbarron: heh I could project the beast's key and my key onto that too
decimation: danielpbarron: revelation is a difficult book. I have no idea what that means
trinque: danielpbarron: I enjoy thinking of the usgov as the whore, though I've heard people argue thats the catholic church
trinque: ...supposedly
decimation: danielpbarron: it is very interesting though
danielpbarron: i'm not saying GPG and the WoT is the number and the beast necessarily, but the similarity is more striking than most ideas i've heard
danielpbarron: seems more likely than the idea that carbon credits and rfid chips are the beast and mark
decimation: hehe
trinque: danielpbarron: evil does that doesn't it? takes something and twists it just a hair
trinque: bitcoin plus some kind of address validation scheme plus govt-captured mining
trinque: sure, it'd be just like that
danielpbarron: no twist needed
danielpbarron: Romans 13 Let every soul be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and the authorities that exist are appointed by God. 2 Therefore whoever resists the authority resists the ordinance of God, and those who resist will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to evil. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have
danielpbarron: but this could also refer to the serene republic
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12900 @ 0.00037984 = 4.8999 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: danielpbarron: that was what I was going to bring up next. this text (romans 13) is difficult to put into practice in a universal suffrage democracy
decimation: who exactly is to be the object of your submission? the law as written? or as interpreted by bureaucrats? or as voted by your neighbor?
danielpbarron: the USG is surely wicked in that it enforces laws that are counter to The Bible
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Could even the good doktor mark such a large keyspace as RSA as his numebers?
danielpbarron: but if we are to take God at His word, even this wicked government is for good
decimation: danielpbarron: aye
BingoBoingo: Anyways, revelations is awfully late to be considered God's word.
decimation: but that 'goodness' might be delivered through great destruction
trinque: sounds a lot more like that guy John went on one hell of a psychedelic trip
BingoBoingo: End of the world stuff would probably be better in Ezekiel with the horse dicks
danielpbarron: BingoBoingo, interestingly enough consider if someone came along who could factor any number of arbitrary length -- would that not appear to be a miracle?
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: I'd need to know if they have a time machine or not.
danielpbarron: such a person could sign a message as any user
BingoBoingo: Depends on how good their time machine is
trinque: danielpbarron: the passivity in romans 13 is the kind of thing I rejected on the way out of the church
trinque: I could see myself in the past saying "well, if this 'authority' is not godly, they're no real authority"
danielpbarron: i think it's along the lines of how this world is temporary anyway -- it's like the tower of babel to try to make heaven on earth
danielpbarron: i mean, USG or b-a in charge either way this all gets destroyed ultimately ; but i think i'd rather have b-a in charge if there is a choice
trinque: danielpbarron: ultimately no one's in charge of much
mircea_popescu: !up roseebit
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: But there is always the constraint that particular lives are bound by finitude. Tis the extraordinarily rare prophet of doom who gets to see the doom while living. Jeremiah didn't
mircea_popescu: roseebit are you in the wot ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I think whoever they are is in the DoS loop
mircea_popescu: howdja mean ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: They keep getting voiced, bumped to guest*** and rejoining
mircea_popescu: oh that yeah
adlai: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040396 << are we confusing prime factorization and discrete logarithms?☝︎
assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 03:36:26; danielpbarron: such a person could sign a message as any user
danielpbarron: isn't a private key a composite number with two very large prime numbers?
trinque: +BingoBoingo | danielpbarron: But there is always the constraint that particular lives are bound by finitude. << my world ends whether "the" world ends or not
danielpbarron: or rather, relating to such a number
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Depends on your algorithm.
adlai: not really, there's just a single prime in bitcoin crypto, and there's no need to factor anything
mircea_popescu: looking in the logs, apparently alf created a new word nao, "portatronic"
mircea_popescu: sounds like a great vc toiletry service.
danielpbarron: i guess i meant GPG specifically
adlai: ok, so the confusion was on my end :)
adlai: although not all gpg keys are rsa
mircea_popescu: danielpbarron in the rsa scheme
BingoBoingo: danielpbarron: Even with GPG not everything is RSA. Some people are stupid and use version 2-ish though it lacks backwards compatibility or they use 80's fail crypto which breaks easily.
BingoBoingo: 70's and 90's RSA is the strong stuff
mircea_popescu: lol criptoenology
BingoBoingo: IN the very worst case and RSA fails at least private languages aren't too bad compared to DES, provided the grammar and semantics are unique
danielpbarron: even though it's still not proven, i'll go out on a limb saying that the ability to factor a number of arbitrary length would have to come from a supernatural source, and such a being could probably break all the alternative methods
nubbins`: such a strange place, this
BingoBoingo: If anyone has a time machine to lend I have all kinds of trans cholonolgical arbitrage opportunities that can enrish you provided you give me exactly one whole minute longer than it takes to start the machine alone with it.
trinque: hahaha
nubbins`: ^ me from the future
adlai: well anyone can factor a number of arbitrary length in arbitrary time... consistently being able to factor arbitrary length numbers in constant time, now that is a 'supernatural' algorithm, relative to current knowledge
trinque: paradox police got him
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5814 @ 0.00037993 = 2.2089 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: this "private language" thing is a lot easier said than done.
mircea_popescu: and i have some practical experience wiht the issue.
mircea_popescu: anyonw wanna send 50 bux via paypal for me ?
adlai is no longer a pay pal >:(
danielpbarron: mircea_popescu, i can do that
mircea_popescu: i remember a time, maybe 10 or so years ago, when having a paypal was like, a point of pride.
adlai: >:( expresses annoyance, not shame (or lack of pride)
adlai: ;;ticker --market all
gribble: Bitstamp BTCUSD last: 276.71, vol: 18996.35978116 | BTC-E BTCUSD last: 274.711, vol: 18812.28951 | Bitfinex BTCUSD last: 279.58, vol: 84375.6220414 | BTCChina BTCUSD last: 278.13706, vol: 152561.77060000 | Kraken BTCUSD last: 276.31875, vol: 22.90894774 | Bitcoin-Central BTCUSD last: 280.367, vol: 178.00907986 | Volume-weighted last average: 278.248147885
adlai: chicken coming down to roost
mircea_popescu: where is that valkirie
danielpbarron: lol paypal nags me every time i log in now about how i haven't given them enough KYC but they let me send money regardless
mircea_popescu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AlEvy0fJto
assbot: Richard Wagner - The ride of the Valkyries from "Die Walküre" - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1DJS1rJ )
adlai needs to try this as coding music
mircea_popescu: totally.
adlai: got good mileage out of https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OhT0g9jULpw but can't get too locked to one genre
assbot: Metallica - Ride The Lightning - Full Album (HD 720p) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1DJSQ3B )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the notion of a "deprecated symbol" boggles my mind.,
mircea_popescu: can you explain wtf it's supposed to be even ?
decimation: adlai: recently i've become a fan of arvo pärt (yes, via moldbug)
adlai: also tatran
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2015#1040051 << this is exactly correct. obscure fucking sides of an obscure place in an fucking thing (linux)☝︎
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2015 22:23:41; ascii_field: every time i do this, i get the distinct feeling that i'm the only living thing other than the package maintainer/developer who tried to build it
mircea_popescu: obscuritas in tenebrae.
adlai: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNudxZEIfqU
assbot: TATRAN - WW III (Album Version) - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1zUGKFo )
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> this "private language" thing is a lot easier said than done. << Is any truly dark art otherwise? When you surrender the truth of mathematics to language?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: wtf it's supposed to be << it's precisely what it looks like to the unarmed eye: a perfectly good symbol that a shitgnome whose arsehole pines for the stake decided to zap to boost his feeling of relevance and be '1337 contributor'
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: obscure fucking sides of an obscure place << widely used gizmo. but apparently everybody but me just takes the binary
decimation: asciilifeform: how can you 'do' package management without keeping track of the symbols
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform overheard right now "o yeah ? well the gentoo manual was down for likle... 3 days. i don't think this is a good sign"
adlai: fwiw, 'private language' has served organisms rather well for countless generations, we've only been toying with information hiding for an instant in comparison
asciilifeform: decimation: subject of thread was yet another case of gizmo that won't build on account of 'obsolete' things having been removed from something
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform your idea of widely differs from nature.
mircea_popescu: what's widely, 50 actual usecases which all depend on the same three contractors ?
decimation: asciilifeform: yes but didn't you once say that package management can only be properly done at the language level?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: neh those use proprietary adas
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the 'widely' is mostly uni students
asciilifeform: decimation: aha
asciilifeform: decimation: but i didn't create the universe in question, nobody asked me
decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=08-02-2015#1012685 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 08-02-2015 18:50:39; asciilifeform: trying to explain that it is quit impossible to have a package management system above the language level that is not dumbed down by support for braindamaged languages.
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: decimation: but in this case the package manager is not at fault. someone deliberately sabotaged a library.
adlai: asciilifeform: any particular reason for your love of ada, specifically?
asciilifeform: (yes, let's call things by their true names - sabotage)
asciilifeform: adlai: i'd love to learn of a substitute for ada
decimation: asciilifeform: well, this is a general problem in C programming - the failure to provide a global namespace
decimation: "no, I want the writef() that does the stuff, not the writef() that displays singing monkeys"
asciilifeform: that is, a hard-standardized (iso preferred) prog. lang. with safe types and deterministic memory usage, that has extant compiler back-ends for all major cpu architectures
asciilifeform: and is happy with, e.g., 64k of total machine ram
asciilifeform: ^ ocaml, say, is right out
asciilifeform: ditto erlang
asciilifeform: ada's the only game in town for this not-uncommon set of constraints
decimation: asciilifeform: also it's probably never going to attract hipsters
asciilifeform: in much the same way that mpex is the only game in town in its field
asciilifeform: i don't give a flying fuck either way about the hipsters
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> decimation: but in this case the package manager is not at fault. someone deliberately sabotaged a library. << So on OpenBSD I'm nt finding an Ada port or package that works with sufficient frequency to make it too the tree. Looking like the turdswitch may have been flipped in GCC
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: there's a set of ports for 'dragonfly bsd'
asciilifeform: which ought to work on others
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Dragonfly ports are mostly loose FreeBSD ports with little guarentee of working. There are older Ada and the visual Ada IDE ports for OpenBSD, but... it seems fuckers would on the whole rather test "go"
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if gcc works, so will ada, enable it when configuring gcc
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: if you insist on the ada foundation's bleeding edge thing - that's another matter that i can't help with
mircea_popescu: !up roseebit
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform yeah, "uni studends" right. "use" mhm kay.
BingoBoingo is working on the pressing problem of testing other possible bitcoind/qts atm
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: So far been searchin for 95 compatible gnat and IDE safety net
asciilifeform: http://www.gentoo.org/security/en/glsa/glsa-201502-15.xml << speaking of gentoo...
assbot: Gentoo Linux Documentation-- Samba: Multiple vulnerabilities ... ( http://bit.ly/1DJYP8E )
adlai stumbles upon https://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/lisp/impl/alsp/0.html
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DJYVgv )
asciilifeform: ^ you don't have to use winblows to be pwned using winblows pwnhole
adlai: Version: 1.0 (17-MAR-86)
asciilifeform: ^ don't keep windblows box in the house. then no need for 'samba' and the associated idiocies
adlai: iirc that's before 0.5.3
mircea_popescu: what is samba again ?
adlai: windows filesharing
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Windows NFS substitute
decimation: mircea_popescu: it's an implementation of cifs, which is the standard windows network filesystem
mircea_popescu: "Samba is a suite of SMB and CIFS client/server programs." szus nothing to me
mircea_popescu: oh oh
asciilifeform: adlai: interestingly, symbolics lisp mach. had full datastructure interoperability between zetalisp, common lisp, fortran, ada, - even c.
adlai: "had"? i thought there was at least one working lispm in the republic!
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=03-03-2015#1040172 << but srsly, you watching its uptime ?☝︎
assbot: Logged on 03-03-2015 23:59:18; PeterL: sorry, cazalla
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17346 @ 0.00038114 = 6.6113 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: adlai: haven't switched it on in a good long while.
decimation: asciilifeform: re: software that kills < http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1319903 < the toyota thing was discussed here in the past
assbot: Toyota Case: Single Bit Flip That Killed | EE Times ... ( http://bit.ly/1GibvJH )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26954 @ 0.00038246 = 10.3088 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo confesses running to OpenBSD instead of Gentoo not because of knowledge, but from a lack of knowledge. Still determine personal minimal set of installed software. No confident enough to make best choices on a whole workstation (as opposed to appliance) stack.
asciilifeform: speaking of the ada foundation, i randomly tested their mac port ( http://mirrors.cdn.adacore.com/art/ee55f5eb79cb118552c03fc83fa2d5c1580f5353 ) and it only segfaults.
asciilifeform: as in, every single one of the executables.
asciilifeform: does -anybody- test this crap ?
mircea_popescu: dude that shadbase.com thing...
decimation: asciilifeform: I spent a few days trying to get ada working on osx 10.9, gave up
mircea_popescu: wtf is it, someone's lcd trip ?
asciilifeform: decimation: use gcc's.
decimation: macports has a 'port' of gcc-gnat , but it requires an existing ada compiler to build
adlai: lcd trip = lsd + advertisements?
asciilifeform: decimation: comes with one, typically
decimation: it swore that it didn't
decimation: I don't understand why
asciilifeform: i suppose that was only on real computer
mircea_popescu: adlai lol
gabriel_laddel: lcd trip?
mircea_popescu: it's a joke!
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040184 << obviously, their ada wasn't tested.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 01:03:49; pete_dushenski: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_INR8ZXIAIIs2q.jpg << lulzy shot of coinbase orderbook, allegedly from earlier today, showing an order for *negative* bitcoin
decimation: asciilifeform: macports suggested four alternatives, none of which were available or worked
gabriel_laddel: haha...
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13300 @ 0.00037921 = 5.0435 BTC [-]
adlai: asciilifeform: what's the lispm good for these days? i'm intrigued by them but (as you yourself have said) software sim is much more practical these days
BingoBoingo: One of these days, would love to use as main online computter http://webspace.webring.com/people/a7/717171/Blacky.html
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DK1krB )
asciilifeform: adlai: for satisfying curiosity about what it actually felt like in the period
asciilifeform: adlai: for just about everything else, the emulator
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040208 << it's only like the... 5th or so to falsely claim firstness on that score.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 01:10:36; pete_dushenski: at the time it seemed like a basement operation
asciilifeform: adlai: though if you want a '100% authentic' experience with the emulator, you'll need a symbolics keyboard and an adapter
mircea_popescu: but hey, bitcoin ragazine material.
asciilifeform: (not available commercially. i reversed the keyboard, then some german fella made adapter)
asciilifeform: not even sure if he used my schematic or not
asciilifeform: don't much care today
adlai: you used a regular keyboard with the lispm?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040212 << iirc this exists, since about 2011. davout's thing.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 01:11:52; Pierre_Rochard: ^ what I’m waiting for is an exchange with segregated fiat accounts held by a custodian bank. May be wishful thinking
asciilifeform: adlai: no. reverse
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: There were people inquiring about qntra submisisons on the firstness of that, but when pressed to source... saw necessary hedges unnews'd it
adlai: or the symbolics keyboard with the emulator?
asciilifeform: lispm keyboard with pc
adlai: ok
BingoBoingo: adlai: Why can't scalpl beat http://trilema.com/2013/internet-story/
assbot: Internet story pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DK2bIF )
asciilifeform: adlai: http://www.asciilifeform.com/images/3.png
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DK2nYt )
adlai: BingoBoingo: "why did the dinosaur cross the road? because the chicken hadn't yet evolved"
asciilifeform: adlai: of what? of http://www.asciilifeform.com/bolix/bolix.png
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DK2uDh )
asciilifeform: there was another, later white kbd, which i have, with entirely different internals - but protocol-compatible with the old scanned-matrix one pictured here
BingoBoingo: adlai: If I had knowledge to author regex, I'd have a refutation...
adlai: no, you'd have two problems
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 31500 @ 0.00037649 = 11.8594 BTC [-]
adlai: regex authorship is a treacherous knowledge
asciilifeform: lispm gives an interesting feeling straight away - of computer that cost what a business airplane cost, and intended to maximize the thinking power of an economically-important thinking person
asciilifeform: for instance, the console was really a powerful computer in its own right (contained video rendered and sound card) and could be separated from the (very loud!) machine by, iirc, 200 metres!
asciilifeform: a multiaxial shielded cable was included for this purpose
asciilifeform: we -still!!!!- don't have this with x86 pc!
BingoBoingo: adlai: A number of technologies produce by a factor of ten more probems than they solve, why would regex be so bad. Not like it is python...
asciilifeform: i listen to fucking fans all day long
asciilifeform: because we don't have this.
mircea_popescu: haha fawks was evil.
BingoBoingo: <mircea_popescu> haha fawks was evil. << The phoenix, no. Chaotic neutral
mircea_popescu: i mean evil as in, wicked.
gabriel_laddel: interestingly, the common lisp standard doesn't contain regular expressions. Why? Because they're unnecessary when you don't ever have to parse input.
asciilifeform: ^
asciilifeform: see also naggum
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040220 << beria is the better comparison point.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 01:16:52; asciilifeform: hruschev was a whole gensec and what did that get him after retirement.
BingoBoingo: Amazingly sbcl, no problem on OpenBSD. Any Ada at all, huge fucking pain.
adlai: does it thread?
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: tried the one built into gcc yet?
asciilifeform: adlai: sbcl, iirc, threads everywhere at this point
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel you stil lthink 18mn units sold means something ?
asciilifeform: if asking about ada, the standard requires platform-independent 100% usable threading
asciilifeform: in fact, it requires program to behave in exactly the same way on any platform, if using only what is contained in the standard
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: with respect to the claim that console gaming is 'dead' - yes.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Haven't got response to it yet, lack time for my Micheal J Fox hands. adlai Even bitcoin-qt threads beautifully here
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040238 << it's never the case that you can find one of these "things that be" (as per http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=01-03-2015#1038150 ) that doesn't have a mole ready to go wherever.☝︎☝︎
assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 01:26:15; BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: One of the safest assumptions from the film though is that one of the core group of Snowden journalists had at some poin been turned or always was an unsavory side vegetable. Likely Greenwald, likely before meeting snowden in HK.
assbot: Logged on 01-03-2015 20:35:08; mircea_popescu: but seriously, wikipedia is returned because "fact:wikipedia is what we promote" rather than any "algorithmics"
mircea_popescu: it's kind-of like looking for a soviet army unit without a political comissar.
adlai: http://www.sbcl.org/platform-table.html < pogobsd seems unsupported
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DK4XxI )
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel "dead" in the sense of, "not what gaming is"
mircea_popescu: they had a chance at making games = consoles, prior to 94
asciilifeform: adlai: who the fuck needs regex when you have set-macro-character ( http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_set_ma.htm ) and brain
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DK5aAM )
gabriel_laddel: adlai: https://groups.google.com/forum/message/raw?msg=comp.lang.lisp/XpvUwF2xKbk/Xz4Mww0ZwLIJ
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DK5aRr )
mircea_popescu: apple came a lot closer to making phones = iphone
mircea_popescu: ultimately also failed. it's a hard fcking thing.
mircea_popescu: but ibm did succeed, making computers = their micros.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I watched citizenfour at my drunk and most socially aware BAC. They talked about the shortlived Snowden2.0 in Russia. His opsec failure was making any contact with Greenhole.
adlai: asciilifeform: who the fuck needs lispworks when you have http://l1sp.org/search?q=s-m-c
assbot: s-m-c - l1sp.org search ... ( http://bit.ly/1DK5GyT )
asciilifeform: adlai: it seems to link right back to lispworkd
asciilifeform: s
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: kk.
adlai: well yes, but shorter and clearer what you're sinking to, cf http://l1sp.org/cl/
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GidMEQ )
mircea_popescu: gabriel_laddel so yeah, not dead dead. "dead".
mircea_popescu: speaking of which, "xerox" is still how you say copier machine / to copy paper by machine in most of the world.
adlai: gabriel_laddel: c.l.l...
gabriel_laddel: adlai: ?
gabriel_laddel: adlai: I was linking you to it b/c you asked why one might want a lispm
gabriel_laddel: adlai: apparently the text editor rocks
gabriel_laddel: Which is unsurprising.
asciilifeform: adlai: is clearer than f_set_ma ?!?! on what planet, wtf
BingoBoingo amazed building python2.7.8 from ports much less pain than building sbcl whatever the available was.
mircea_popescu: it occurs to me you're all very drunk.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: But on what? (easier to answer for what I am drunk on than the others)
adlai: for values of EtOH approaching Δ9-THC
BingoBoingo: You Jews and your herbs
BingoBoingo: Moses set a bad example
adlai: gabriel_laddel: i'm reading, thank you. asciilifeform dunno, i recognize many sections by number
decimation: asciilifeform: regex does seem to be a kind of 'hair shirt' that is proudly worn by modern programmers
asciilifeform: adlai: lol, i do also, but the other folks here ?!
asciilifeform: doubt it
adlai: ;;isup l1sp.org/mop
gribble: l1sp.org/mop is up
adlai: lies
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040271 << tbh, i suspect there are fundamental problems that prevent functional implementations of this segregation in functional currencies. you're essentially stuck choosing : either fiat currency and imaginary "segregation" (of definitionally worthless "money") or else strong currency and no segregation.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 01:47:14; Pierre_Rochard: decimation: this is about separating the traders’ cash from the exchange’s cash. Comingling of funds is not a good idea, as you point out it can lead to “fractional reserve” by the exchange (more precisely, defalcation)
mircea_popescu: the correct solution probably is to simply put someone in charge, and have them answer with their head.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 63600 @ 0.00038039 = 24.1928 BTC [+] {2}
adlai: you people seen tlsnotary yet?
mircea_popescu: which will make large banking concerns impossible, but perhaps to no detriment.
decimation: BingoBoingo: one thing snowden is his brazen equivocation between domestic and foreign espionage
mircea_popescu: decimation missing a verb ?
decimation: ah sorry, ^ one thing that bothers me about snowden
gabriel_laddel: adlai: No, but looking at the website.... why do you mention it?
mircea_popescu: can you explain the difference ?
adlai: tlsnotary lets you turn any bank with functional online services into the fiat side of a wot-based exchange
asciilifeform: in other nyooz, today at $censored_firm we were suddenly excited to learn that a very, very costly $censored_guild_professional will accept a document via 'pgp'... only to learn that he was speaking of a 100%-proprietary turdware
adlai: tlsnotary [purports to let you]*, (but they seem to know what they're doing, as far as i can tell)
asciilifeform: that won't touch normal pgp keys, and requires centrally-blessed 'certs'
BingoBoingo: decimation: Snowden is still you enough for an Anerican to be angry about his circumstances of origin. Provided the documentary interviews actually involved him he seemed personally slighted that his HK room hotel phone listened.
adlai: gabriel_laddel: i was just trying to show off more l1sp.org features
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Aha they took reop as is... Even with the part where it only exists as a "go" turd
decimation: BingoBoingo: snowden seems to be 5% 'whistleblower' and 95% 'media sensation'
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: nope. ssl-based crap
adlai: asciilifeform: the convenience of pgp with all the trustlessness of ssl!
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: by $american_megacorp
asciilifeform: very similar to what's used in usg dod
mircea_popescu: adlai lmao exactly.
asciilifeform: anyway, you lot missed the only remarkable fact about this tale
BingoBoingo: decimation: Media sensation part seem sto mostly have been an asbestos jacket. He seems, if film was honest to know it was a life shortening ploy, but less so than what manning did.
asciilifeform: that the fella actually thought he was 'using pgp'
asciilifeform: i.e., that this is what pgp is
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform why do you think the idiocy of a bureaucrat is remarkable to any degree ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: S.Mime
adlai: http://www.metzdowd.com/pipermail/cryptography/2014-September/022803.html < tlsnotary overview by the author, conveys details better than a tl;dr
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1DKbcRZ )
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not a bureaucrat
mircea_popescu: he thinks his life is a life, and his woman a woman, and so on and so forth
mircea_popescu: orly ?
adlai guesses that $censored_guild has set the bar rather low...
decimation: ultimately, snowden's downfall is that he's a libertard, and that by 'creating a conversation' or 'raising awareness' he can accomplishing anything is a fallacy
asciilifeform: adlai: apparently.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Maybe have one of the more socially perceptive girls screen the citizenfour thing to see if it is worthy of your eyes. Nothing about it suggest weakening opsec in the slightest. Just do they get the same Greenwald was the snitch vibe that I did.
mircea_popescu: decimation a lot has been accomplished however.
adlai mourns the pun's sad lonely death
decimation: mircea_popescu: satans invisible world revealed?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: WOuld explain alot about Omi*'s reported media empire failure method
decimation: BingoBoingo: it's pretty obvious that snowden got 'help' from somebody
mircea_popescu: decimation nope. understand : when usg wants to impress me it's stuck prosecuting derps like shrem.
mircea_popescu: when i want to impress it i need but point to that.
mircea_popescu: score is about 1000:1 so far.
mircea_popescu: just for this reason.
mircea_popescu: puts every single usg drone in a very uncomfortable position.
asciilifeform: greenwald is the same animal as every other creature who 1) had a copy of The Goods + 2) sat and continues to sit on it
asciilifeform: + 3) throws out censored gibblets
BingoBoingo: decimation: May also be infered from film that he prolly fucked the Poitras chick to here positive reception
adlai: the state of "digital signatures" in the fiat world is quite sad... if anybody wants a sad laugh, https://boards.greenhouse.io/hellosign/jobs/5726
assbot: Job Application for API Evangelist at HelloSign ... ( http://bit.ly/1DKd0dZ )
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform meta-people, basically. unable to act because stuck pondering implications as a passtime.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: much too charitable a reading
asciilifeform: i see them as fellating usg actively, plain and simple
mircea_popescu: adlai all this "evangelist" bs. they should just hire linda for an evening's outcall and stfu already.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the two aren't distinct.
decimation: asciilifeform: they would see themselves as reformers
mircea_popescu: the usg essentially consists of this : "instead of doing anything, why not sit on your ass and ruminate the future ?"
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: iirc greenwald doesn't go chicks
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: schwartz summed it up as 'More Studies Needed! (tm)'
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: No greenwald loves the cock. Talking likely Snowden Poitras affair
mircea_popescu: BingoBoingo i muchly doubt anyone ever fucked the poitras chick.
asciilifeform: why not ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: But you haven't even heard the loving narration.
mircea_popescu: she has that vibe. the female equivalent of the male creep.
asciilifeform: to borrow dan mocsny's device, 'like the ruins of a great city, you can tell the woman was once beautiful - but you wouldn't want to move into parthenon'
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Thar she does, but snowden was compelled to "prison rules"
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform more studies needed, this is the controversy, progress and change, all sortsa gunk.
decimation: http://www.businessinsider.com/snowden-assange-wikileaks-and-russia-2013-8?op=1
assbot: Snowden, Assange, WikiLeaks, and Russia - Business Insider ... ( http://bit.ly/1GigUAw )
gabriel_laddel: Germane to the discussion of "humanity sucks", http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/crap.htm
assbot: STURGEON WAS AN OPTIMIST ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gih0bx )
BingoBoingo: Snowden2 though contacted the wrong one of the set of journalists first and was quieted.
asciilifeform: !b 1
assbot: Last 1 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/11GVEF9.txt )
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040339 << this much is true.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 03:00:58; *: BingoBoingo remembers in early 2012 before scandal Petraeus being floated as a more serious threat to Obola than Congress
BingoBoingo: Film was ambiguous, but leaned towards greenwald having been contacted first.
decimation: BingoBoingo: you mean wikileaks?
adlai: or one from the wrong set from the set of sets of journalists
adlai recalls some mention of poitras being contacted first, but read this in an interview with her and only her
BingoBoingo: decimation: I mean Petraeus was on track to be the next two term president following Obola based on his opposition to Obola which would have followed both without consequence
decimation: snowden might have contacted wikileaks acting as a foil for the russian security services
adlai wonders how much longer the business model of leak-digestion will survive, before leakers just... leak
decimation: at any rate, I don't think poitras or greenwald have enough of a clue to move a person of interest across borders
BingoBoingo: adlai: Snowden successfully contacted Poitras first. More than a year after attempting Greenwald the frist time. Not sure, but second snowden seemed to contact Greenwald while snowden1 in Moscow. Disappeared.
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040355 << you shall know a lizzard always and everywhere by this sign, that being a reptile has no grasp or appreciation for mammal reproduction.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 03:15:38; *: BingoBoingo is dissapoint in this fanfic/propaganda piece. Halfway through and no fucking?
mircea_popescu: they lay fucking eggs.
asciilifeform: !b 3
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0B53W5M.txt )
adlai: but this is not even his final form! beware platypus-hitler
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040363 << wait so you're against interest ?!☝︎
assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 03:22:22; decimation: I also think the fiat machine that enables mass theft from everyone's savings is a form of usary
adlai: BingoBoingo: i've lost track of the snowden's of yesteryear
mircea_popescu: the us fed is just about ready to implement the ancient christian venice.
decimation: mircea_popescu: the meating of usary has changed over the ages
mircea_popescu: so what do you mean ?
mircea_popescu: (and it's usury)
BingoBoingo: adlai: You are kinda in the USian ideology testlab. sounds dangerous
adlai: usary!
decimation: 'theft of money lent'
mircea_popescu: as in, defalcation ?
decimation: heh I suppose so
decimation: perhaps 'theft' is more appropriate
adlai: BingoBoingo: ...?
adlai isn't sure whether BingoBoingo is talking about geopolitics, ideology, or some mix of them; and to what degree trolling/mockery is distinguishable from his own actual opinions/beliefs
BingoBoingo: adlai: Modern Israel is nothing more or less than the average middle west resident imagines gryffindor to be
mircea_popescu: the common law has some categories. there's robbery, with violence. there's theft, without violence but with the knowledge of the victim. there's fraud, without the initial knowledge of the victim. there's embezzelment, where the victim isn't a person per se. and there's defalcation, which is merely negligent or reckless, rather than intentional.
BingoBoingo: adlai: Maybe the point is you can't know.
decimation: it's hard to say, because who can divine the intent of usg?
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040368 << everything's a number, in the sense of , ennumerable.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 03:25:17; danielpbarron: isn't a private key a number?
adlai: slightly related, friend who worked one of those shit-selling carts in a canadian mall, hocking 'Dead Sea' products, got asked by a straight-faced mark: "isn't that where captain jack sparrow was from?"
BingoBoingo working on that since I can't code for shit
BingoBoingo: <adlai> slightly related, friend who worked one of those shit-selling carts in a canadian mall, hocking 'Dead Sea' products, got asked by a straight-faced mark: "isn't that where captain jack sparrow was from?" << At our local malls those were all hookers at the carts
adlai: mircea_popescu: it gets better when you realize that even everypair's a number
mircea_popescu: adlai who ?
adlai: eg, "compressed ECDSA key" is pretty much the same general idea as the proof that there are 'as many' rational numbers as integers
mircea_popescu: there's a lot of space in that pretty much.
adlai: uncompressed ECDSA key = (x,y) on the curve; compressed = a single number that can have the coordinates extracted from it, because the lines described by the range of compressed keys each intersect the [top half of the] curve at one point
BingoBoingo: Are we sure the fanfic propaganda guy isn't a teen girl "As it turned out, nobody had worked out that her challenging Neville to a Most Ancient Duel meant that she liked him. She'd thought it would be obvious but no, nobody else had even thought of that apparently."
mircea_popescu: lmai
asciilifeform: concat (int a, int b) -> int n
asciilifeform: ^ proof
mircea_popescu: why are all these derps so adolescent ?
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform so 22/3 = 2/23 ?
mircea_popescu: why not f(a,b) = 1 then
adlai: concatenation doesn't work, you need to interleave
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Actual line from text you though worthy of offering a solution to: "Currently she was being referred to as the Sparkly Unicorn Princess of the Noble and Most Ancient House of Sparklypoo."
adlai: (or use funky encodings)
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: just proving membership in ring!
mircea_popescu: cast down the heretic adlai, he means to leaven our numbers!
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: not equality
adlai is still trying to get over the amazement that there's the 'same number' of rationals and complexes
mircea_popescu: not so.
mircea_popescu: only if your definition of complexes is based on rational parameters.
mircea_popescu: 1+ei is not in that set.
BingoBoingo: ^
adlai: ok ok ok
mircea_popescu: true that this is the pedestrrian definition given in school
BingoBoingo: Aleph as many subs
mircea_popescu: a fine example of "teachning kids math = making kids unable to understand math"
mircea_popescu: and ima link http://trilema.com/2014/its-not-the-sauce-its-the-poultry-and-other-metamathematical-considerations/ here because it's muy related.
assbot: It's not the sauce, it's the poultry and other metamathematical considerations pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/1DKl6TD )
adlai hasn't seen mention of transrationals yet in the thread, just thinking of dimension changes
asciilifeform: 'The darwin x86_64 gnat crashes with "illegal instruction: 4" on my macbook pro / OS X 10.7.5 :-(Edit: I upgraded to OS X 10.8.3. Now gnat works...' -- from a forum comment. shitgnomism.
asciilifeform: and fuck, i blew a benjie on chinese aftermarket ssd made just for that box, so it would hold this thing
asciilifeform: was to be the ada-in-bed machine
asciilifeform: (box in question has proprietary disk controller that won't take standard drives)
asciilifeform: every time i pick it up from shelf, thinking of using it for something...
asciilifeform: this.
BingoBoingo: * adlai hasn't seen mention of transrationals yet in the thread, just thinking of dimension changes << Aleph progresses in cardenality up through ALeph sub aleph
asciilifeform: me to colleague: 'mac has to be good for... something?' him: 'take it to the range, it'll make good target'
adlai is still in א₀
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you know, people have been trained to believe in this "upgrade and everything's gonna be better" mantra.
mircea_popescu: worst fucking idea ever. but it's so much like "progress", and "what the consumers should come to expect"
adlai: (not yet convinced that real numbers 'exist' outside of theory and approximations)
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> me to colleague: 'mac has to be good for... something?' him: 'take it to the range, it'll make good target' << 9" model and .22 LR makes a nice pop when phosphors are too faded
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: it's the direct effect of shitgnomism where 'the doctor healed the patient's ear, but did poke out an eye, i fear'
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: wrong mac
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: that one doesn't deserve it
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Everything later is just NeXT abotus
BingoBoingo: *abortus
BingoBoingo: Born of the same reasoning that leads one to jack off inside a pussy in a .gif
BingoBoingo: But still eventually CRT phosphors become worn and mercy needs to be applied
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i've a massive 'sun' trinitron here that 'needs mercy'
BingoBoingo: The lead on glass on lead pop is a satisfying noise
decimation: asciilifeform: the devilish thing about apple 'upgrades' is that the old versions no longer exist
decimation: try 'upgrading' a 10.6 mac to 10.7 and not 10.8, for instance
asciilifeform: decimation: exists as much as you want. l33t w4r3z
decimation: asciilifeform: aye
trinque: decimation: not that I run OS X, but I think that justifies torrenting anything prior
asciilifeform: decimation: problem is that the later turds won't run on that box
asciilifeform: they EOLed a '09 box, yes
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Are there any open spaces? the cheapest .22 LR rounds tend to be more satisfying. If you have a camera that can capture slow motion, especially avoid the copper plate ones
asciilifeform: i shit thee not
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: nearest 'open' space in your customary sense is many hours away.
BingoBoingo: decimation: Mac OS versions ended at 7.x
asciilifeform: and has a 'tresspassers will be shot again' sign, most certainly.
decimation: asciilifeform: yes, I have a couple of early intel macbooks that have been abandoned
adlai: survivors*
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Weird. Five minutes walk from here is a zone where absolute lawlessness is permitted
decimation: they run 10.6.8, and will forever I guess
asciilifeform: decimation: aha. this one does.
decimation: even macports is failing to keep updates going, because they were 32-bit
adlai feels that survivors of https://www.bitfinex.com/account/api are likely to be shot again, by their own trigger
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Giljnh )
decimation: I did manage to hack the efi bootloader into 'dual booting' gentoo once
decimation: but it was pointless because of the driver brokenness
asciilifeform: decimation: a box without 100% working suspend-to-ram is worthless to me
asciilifeform: decimation: if BingoBoingo lived here i'd give it to him to shoot.
adlai: random retardation of the day: trade history has no indication of whether an action took place on margin or was an asset exchange
asciilifeform: decimation: hence total lack of interest in attempting to put a civilized unixlike on these
decimation: yeah. it's a lost cause
decimation: it would be more 'comfortable' to use one of those tadpole laptops
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Honestly I'd prolly try to save it if I made it. Hard to find anything with built in 13w3
asciilifeform: i've ran across folks who claim to have done it - but on close examination, it always turns out that they're living with some 'small' imperfection that i find utterly intolerable
asciilifeform: (e.g. the suspend mode thing)
adlai: s2ram is just a fancy way of saying "leave the dustoff at the bureau, all you need is quick hands and an evidence bag"
decimation: yeah the suspend mode thing is really annoying
decimation: without it you just have a rather useless desktop
asciilifeform: adlai: don't process 'interesting' bits on a proprietary crudware box
BingoBoingo: decimation: If you get the chance A/Ux is a pretty fun unix
decimation: eh, I rather have one of asciii's genera boxen
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo has said this in the past, and it boggles my mind - what posixy gadget of any interest whatsoever builds on a/ux ?
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: My fascination stems from it being the first vagually *nixy thing I encountered.
asciilifeform: ah
asciilifeform: i suppose this is how folks end up with 'shoe fetish' etc
decimation recalls using an ancient hp 'portable' computer running hp/ux as a youth
BingoBoingo: less than 3 years later I enountered mandrake linux more than 10 years more recent and was disappoint
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43600 @ 0.00037125 = 16.1865 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: Now I yearn for Ti-89BSD
adlai: ah more excellent kodmuzik: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNI-2i6t7Zs
assbot: The Bad Plus - Seven Minute Mind - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1GimfrJ )
adlai: though it irks me to no end that the song is not in fact seven minutes long
asciilifeform dreams every day of program-in-bed
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Prolly.
asciilifeform doesn't expect to actually get to do it, ever
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: If you did, imagine the warfain you'd need
decimation: asciilifeform: what about your chorded keyboard device? does that feel comfortable while lying down
BingoBoingo: *warfarin
asciilifeform: decimation: no and you can't program with it anyway
asciilifeform: (assuming you were speaking of 'microwriter')
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26300 @ 0.00038677 = 10.1721 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: yeah, but it seems a chorded entry system of some kind would allow you to lay on your back
asciilifeform: decimation: not even thinking of anything so ambitious
BingoBoingo: At some point faced with the twin maws of conspiracy and poisons one must choose discomfort of some measure.
asciilifeform: just an actual computer that can be used other than on a desk
adlai has yet to see a good human-touchscreen api for reading and editing source code... but assuming one existed, a 'tablet' would be quite convenient for bedcode
asciilifeform: adlai: and a pill that lets you fart 10000N*m would be very convenient for transatlantic flight
asciilifeform: but same idea.
BingoBoingo: !b 3
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/0DG3NMA.txt )
gabriel_laddel is lying on a couch, writing on a laptop computer
adlai: like the romans ate?
adlai: that cramps my vestigial wings
decimation: adlai: try waving your hands around like tom cruise in 'minority report' for about 10 minutes and see how you feel
trinque: adlai: I've got a sort of AST making circle menu thing in my head
trinque: have never tried to make it
trinque: you'd sort of crawl along the grammar
gabriel_laddel: adlai: nah, lying on my back
trinque: eventually though you need to type words...
asciilifeform: trinque: i tried just this
adlai: decimation: touchscreen ≠ glove-activated vaporware
asciilifeform: not recommended.
trinque: asciilifeform: cooler to look at for 5min I'd guess
asciilifeform: touch screen in the best of times sucks for the same reason as mouse
asciilifeform: clutters visual cortex & attention span window with what ought to be 100% spinal column work
adlai: ideally, something where i could hold the device with one hand, and do all tasks with a single finger... you can enter text quite fast using gesture typing, and a program-aware editor can do much much much better than the current keyboards because namespacing greatly narrows the likely lexemes
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform> clutters visual cortex << Wait you trust that api???
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: ?
asciilifeform thinks that if BingoBoingo is going to 'don't trust your brain' he needs to share the good dope first
decimation: http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/dasher/DasherSummary2.html
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GinBmi )
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: That high up on the brain, thing could lie. Gotta trust the lizard brain and little higher
decimation: ^ above link demonstrates 'alternate text entry'
asciilifeform: decimation: ew
decimation: hehe yeah
trinque: asciilifeform: yeah roughly that but with grammar rules
decimation: it would be good if you could only move your tongue though
trinque: it'd probably suck
BingoBoingo: If the responsible part of the brain touches the skull, my general rule is to doubt it
trinque: er meant decimation
decimation: adlai: gesture typing sucks, at least as implemented on 'modern' phones
adlai: why should you trust an internal part of the brain any more than the grey stuff? it's not like you have [consciously available] stimuli re: what's happening there
decimation: I liked 'typing' gestures into my palm pilot, but somehow that technology disappeared
asciilifeform: decimation: i loved that thing
asciilifeform: decimation: it... worked
adlai: as i said, gesture typing needs to be boosted with program-awareness
decimation: yeah, modern gesture 'typepads' suck by comparison
asciilifeform: and didn't throw glitter garbage in your face
asciilifeform: ever.
decimation: asciilifeform: especially considering it had like 1% of the modern smartphone's cpu
adlai: when your likely input set is an entire language, even a crappy markov chain leaves tons of noise
trinque: adlai: I worked on a visual programming bullshit thing for a year and a half as a job
asciilifeform: decimation: precisely -why-
trinque: really don't think it can be made to do more than toy interfaces for end users
decimation: adlai: somehow customizing the input 'typepad algorithm' is a 'missing option' on all smart devices
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51050 @ 0.00038703 = 19.7579 BTC [+]
trinque: at least without a huge slowdown compared to typing it out
trinque: for example imagine doing sql joins with a venn diagram
trinque: say 20 joins
trinque: :p
trinque: but it seems like such genius with a single join!
BingoBoingo: http://www.drunkard.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=36899
assbot: Modern Drunkard Forum • View topic - Lizard Brain's taking over ... ( http://bit.ly/1zX5VFq )
decimation: trinque: asciilifeform has explained before why graphical interfaces suck for programming
decimation: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com//?date=15-02-2015#1019353 ☝︎
assbot: Logged on 15-02-2015 05:30:33; decimation: https://scottlocklin.wordpress.com/2012/09/12/not-all-programmers-alike/ << "I can’t speak for everyone, but when I program, I like to be able to make use of the rather-hefty chunk of my brain that evolved as a language co-processor. Language provides compact abstractions in a way that is difficult to beat using graphics except for inherently-visual tasks (the motion of mechanical parts, etc.)"
trinque: ^ yep
asciilifeform: ^ soemwhere in there yes
trinque: language is precisely for this
adlai: typing [+slime-fuzzy] is likely to remain faster than pretty much any other muscle-based input, just due to evolutionary accident... but the quest here, as i see it, is for a drastically more convenient interface, which sacrifices less than the current ones (which aren't even that convenient)
trinque: this being describing some set of actions, facts, whatever, for something else to learn and/or carry out
trinque: adlai: what I'd like to see is the structure of the program in some way
trinque: use the visual part to traverse, not to write code
asciilifeform: so far, every alternative i've tried vs qwerty keyboard - simply stinks
asciilifeform: notice that i didn't end my 'engelbart's violin' article with 'and now i use microwriter'
decimation: asciilifeform: have you followed the 'movement' to re-create stenotypes?
trinque: there are types of code mess that at least seem like they'd "look like shit" with the right goggles
asciilifeform: but with 'i should have been forced to use microwriter since age 3'
asciilifeform: decimation: fuck stenotypes
asciilifeform: decimation: confined to natural lang.
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah, I looked into them, but they seem useless for programming
decimation: aye
asciilifeform: and what 're-create'
asciilifeform: they never went anywhere
asciilifeform: visit a courthouse anywhere in usa
asciilifeform: so much stenotype 'can eat them with your arse'
decimation: the story I got was that those devices are priced at bezzle rates
decimation: plus the training to use them
adlai: anybody tried one-handed dvorak?
asciilifeform: certified guildsmen
asciilifeform: but if you just want one for no reason - ebay
decimation: asciilifeform: yeah but try to hook it up to your computer to run emacs :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11650 @ 0.00036462 = 4.2478 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: decimation: a good many have standard rs232 tty
decimation: ah well then maybe it's straightforward
decimation: some folks try to make a 'ghetto steno' using a keyboard
decimation: but most keyboards cannot handle chorded keypresses
asciilifeform: decimation: http://www.loper-os.org/mwemu/mwemu.html << go right ahead
assbot: MwEmu ... ( http://bit.ly/1Gippf9 )
asciilifeform: ^ i wrote this for folks who just couldn't help but want
decimation: hehe
adlai: being able to fully operate a keyboard-drived ui (stumpwm, emacs) with one hand would be a huge step towards using the laptop conveniently in most any position
asciilifeform: adlai: what would you use for the machine itself ?
asciilifeform: adlai: any hobbyist worth his salt can build a keyboard
asciilifeform: but the computer - we don't have.
adlai: any vanilla keyboard, mapped to some bastardization of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dvorak_Simplified_Keyboard#One-handed_versions
assbot: Dvorak Simplified Keyboard - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1GipKhO )
asciilifeform: why the preoccupation with single hand, anyway? just came back from iran, got chopped ?
decimation: http://plover.stenoknight.com/2011/10/split-screen-demonstration.html < guy doing 'steno' on a qwerty keyboard
assbot: Plover, the Open Source Steno Program: Split-Screen Demonstration ... ( http://bit.ly/1GipT4M )
decimation: if not single hand, why not single finger? or two? can do with morse
trinque: adlai: I've got most of what I do in stump down to a single-handed binding
decimation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_icJLmsFNU < 60 wpm morse 'entry'
assbot: High Speed Morse Code with an N3ZN Telegraph key by WØAAA - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1GiqpQg )
BingoBoingo: adlai> being able to fully operate a keyboard-drived ui (stumpwm, emacs) with one hand would be a huge step towards using the laptop conveniently in most any position << You'd be surprised what you can do when you surrender to WIMP, your keyboard has a clit, and the ETOH has reduced you to half f a lizard's funtioning brain mass
trinque: not as happy with stump as I'd hoped
asciilifeform: decimation: 'glass arm' candidate
adlai: for one, you'd be able to touchtype 'roman style' ( http://blogs.getty.edu/iris/files/2012/08/reclining_triclinium.jpg ); also, you'd have a hand free for tending to non-computer matters, such as pets or your poison of choice
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1Giqsvs )
trinque: I want an uppermost level concept of task, then several layouts for that task
trinque: I'm building that now around stump
adlai: anything public?
decimation: asciilifeform: nah, he's using a keyer with very small entry force
trinque: might jack the "tasks" back into helm
asciilifeform: decimation: even worse
decimation: if you wanna hurt your hand you use a straight key
trinque: adlai: neh once I extract the tasks thing from my config maybe
asciilifeform: decimation: it's the repetitive action that nails you
asciilifeform: telegraphers were the first to discover
decimation: asciilifeform: sure, but only if you are doing it with alot of force
decimation: note he's moving his hand side-to-side
trinque: adlai: but! it improves daily as stumpwmrc and the repl side by side are a binding
adlai: trinque: please /join #stumpwm and share if/when you do
trinque: yeah maybe so
decimation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPsgEdmlUf0 < high speed straight key, impressive
assbot: High speed morse telegraphy using a straight key - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1GiqP9j )
adlai has often pondered how to get stumpwm more aware of what the windows are doing, but the ways he imagines doing this involve teaching stumpwm more about the programs than they like to reveal programmatically
trinque: adlai: I'm just farting around with window titles
trinque: define-frame-preference
trinque: and in fact this sucks, since emacs changes it several times after making a new frame and loading shit
trinque: need to find a good place to call place-existing-windows
adlai: see why i'm so curious about the lispm :P
BingoBoingo wonders if he is the exception planning his interface not around his most capable moments, but around his least...
trinque: adlai: man I want one too
trinque: even if all it does is edit text, check email, and transfer files
adlai: BingoBoingo: on the contrary, i think of all this as 'stoner-proof productivity'
ben_vulpes: hear hear
trinque: adlai: yeah
asciilifeform: decimation: ru text says 'telegraphy bowl ... 1st stage, 2-4 feb. '07, brest'
decimation: hehe yeah
decimation: he was almost certainly east german
adlai: my goal is to increase transaction costs for distractions, and decrease them for productive activities - and have some reasonably real-time control over the productivity gradient
trinque: I can be blazed as hell and press one button
trinque: boom, project is open and arranged
decimation: my understanding is that in the ru high speed telegraphy is something of a minor sport
BingoBoingo: adlai: But even if your choice of intoxicant you set a floor for its effect
BingoBoingo: !up Asenath
adlai: "even if"?
asciilifeform: decimation: must be a practice run - plug is dangling on the floor
decimation: aye
ben_vulpes: adlai: this distraction thing is a human factors problem.
ben_vulpes: discipline thyself.
adlai https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdbORXEmbnk
assbot: You rack disciprine - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1zX7Mdv )
BingoBoingo: adlai: Do you indulge in any aqueous intoxicants which push both your peripheral and centeral nervous system to functional minimums
trinque: "do you like booze, bro?"
trinque: lol
BingoBoingo: trinque: Maybe?
decimation: asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9S-NzsUD5w < another contestant apparently at the same competition, except she is using a keyer
assbot: High Speed Telegraphy Transmission - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1zX7WBA )
adlai makes no a-priori constraints on intoxicant choices, since supply, demand, and the threat of violence are strict enough already
asciilifeform: decimation: woah
decimation: yeah that's highly impressive
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: ^ check out the gurl
adlai: although i have a 'standing desk', which places a lower limit to the motor control necessary for all computer use
decimation: she doesn't have anything that is slowing down the propagation along her myelin sheaths :)
asciilifeform: lol re: the ru-built exam box
decimation: yeah it is probably providing audible 'beeps'
asciilifeform: the one in the first min. appears to be a digital decoder
decimation: typically the way the keyer works is that one side is continuous dashes and the other is continuous dots
asciilifeform: not mere buzzer
decimation: asciilifeform: probably the 'keyer' electronics
asciilifeform: decimation: i know, built one meself as a boy, who hasnt
asciilifeform: both kinds
decimation: the fancy ones have alternating dots and dashes when held together
adlai: this (gurl's skill) is really just a matter of having a good word->twich compiler
decimation: she might have some kind of 'grading' software
asciilifeform: every bit as interesting as what a good pianist does
mircea_popescu: whoa nelly
asciilifeform: where are the telegraphygurlz in usa!?
mircea_popescu goes back to catching up oin the log for the 3rd time today
asciilifeform: what even is this place
asciilifeform: without them
decimation: asciilifeform: I think ru still uses telegraphy in aircraft
asciilifeform: decimation: telegraphy is the 'internet of last resort'
asciilifeform: from now until alpha centauri
asciilifeform: doesn't get any lower tech while still electric
decimation: asciilifeform: we don't even have typistgurls in the usa anymore
asciilifeform: but even in ru they bowed out and gave agents portable tape-punchies
adlai: develop a good compiler-compiler for new daily telegraphies, and you don't even need crypto!
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040834 << not everyone lives in chicago you know.☝︎
assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 05:32:01; BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Weird. Five minutes walk from here is a zone where absolute lawlessness is permitted
adlai: the real competition should be "who can learn fastest a new randomly-generated telegraph encoding"
asciilifeform: http://www.cryptomuseum.com/spy/r350/burst.htm << puncher
assbot: R-350 Burst Encoder ... ( http://bit.ly/1GitakB )
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: I live on th other side of Illinois North/South Axis, still more lawless, especially if diversity is invoked
mircea_popescu: adlai or hire one, 599 /month
decimation: asciilifeform: inside a tu-95 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSVtYib8StY < note the straight key against the outside bulkhead at the comms position
assbot: Exploring the Tupolev Tu-95 "Bear" - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1GitoYW )
asciilifeform: notice also the pen for cheating
mircea_popescu: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1040868 << why ?☝︎
assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 05:38:28; *: asciilifeform dreams every day of program-in-bed
mircea_popescu: seriously now. why not shower in bed ?
mircea_popescu: why not program in wheelchair ?
BingoBoingo: !b 3
assbot: Last 3 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/03S37SY.txt )
mircea_popescu: be as genius as that hawkins dude
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: that's like asking a shoe fetishist, why shoes, why not socks, hats
adlai: i'm guessing the ones for hire have hardcoded, monolithic parser-compilers, from countless hours spent translating the same encoding... sure, it's impressive to watch, but useless when a new alphabet pops up
asciilifeform: i like bed, blankets, warmth
asciilifeform: idleness
mircea_popescu: i've been known to do that.
mircea_popescu: also ask lesbos why no c0k
asciilifeform: aha
asciilifeform: good question, no?
asciilifeform: but never an interesting answer
asciilifeform: because spinal column can't talk
adlai: another solution is dictation, but it seems that for years to come, the best way to dictate code is via a human typist
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 113000 @ 0.00036114 = 40.8088 BTC [-] {4}
adlai: !down
adlai: !down adlai
mircea_popescu: noob adlai
mircea_popescu: "you can enter text quite fast using gesture typing" basically you lot just aspire to be cripples.
mircea_popescu: "oh, how glorious if i couldn't stand and i only had one weavery appendage i could move"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 60200 @ 0.00037881 = 22.8044 BTC [+]
asciilifeform 'tried' once (broke a hand) - didn't like
decimation: mircea_popescu: if one day you have a stroke and could only blink one eye, you might find the skill useful
mircea_popescu: i would certainly not use my only fucking remining blinker to code omfg.
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu is colorblind, that's a kind of crippled
ben_vulpes: mircea_popescu: you're not the poor sod who'd starve without coding either.
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> [04:55] that the fella actually thought he was 'using pgp' << wait wut? who biffed at this epic scale?
BingoBoingo doesn't imagine his ideal interface for coding uses, but for handling "ideal datacenter" eventually
mircea_popescu: ben_vulpes i'd blink my way to broadway success!
asciilifeform: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-2dfEc70gU << airplane from earlier
assbot: RARE | Tupolev Tu-95MS Inflight | HD - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/1Givx6Z )
asciilifeform: peculiarly good film
decimation: asciilifeform: the 'long range aviation command' still flies those things
asciilifeform not specialist, doesn't know what the point of those machines is, if you have rocket
asciilifeform: but for some odd - i suspect, ceremonial - reason - they still exist
decimation: well, they can carry rockets
asciilifeform: (ballistic rocket)
asciilifeform: why such a thing as 'trans-oceanic bomber' is needed, is beyond me
decimation: heh. to annoy countries across the ocean
trinque: you can't buzz your enemies with a rocket, turning back at the last moment
asciilifeform: so - ceremonial.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25533 @ 0.00038703 = 9.882 BTC [+]
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: ceremonial, and... at one point they outnumbered rockets... Hence NIke Hercules
asciilifeform: at one point musketry.
asciilifeform: at one point slings.
asciilifeform: but for some peculiar reason - no musket brigades in modern armies
asciilifeform: nor sling corps
mircea_popescu: ahem.
mircea_popescu: ;;google 13eme dragons parachutistes
gribble: 13th Parachute Dragoon Regiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_Parachute_Dragoon_Regiment>; 13e régiment de dragons parachutistes - Ministère de la Défense: <http://www.defense.gouv.fr/terre/presentation/organisation-des-forces/arme-blindee-cavalerie/13e-regiment-de-dragons-parachutistes>; 13eme RDP - Régiment des dragons parachutistes (1 more message)
mircea_popescu: suck on that for a while. paradragoons!
decimation: wait, I thought dragoons were horse-mounted infantry
decimation: do they paracute with their horse?
mircea_popescu: lol.
asciilifeform: laugh, but ru parachutists often had dogs
asciilifeform: nobody trained the beasts to pull the cord, no. dropped in boxes
asciilifeform: with autoparachute
decimation: oh, re: La Marseillaise < I find the lyrics hilarious, especially in modern times
decimation: a white communist and a black algerian living in the suburbs could both sing La Marseillaise and mean exactly opposite things
asciilifeform: (you can drop anything you want with chutes, even tank. read how.)
decimation: asciilifeform: a dog is a useful asset in the military, for a variety of tasks
asciilifeform: well yes
asciilifeform: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2882621/Special-forces-soldiers-dogs-tandem-parachute-freefall-10-000ft.html << nato soldiers had dogs tied to them instead
assbot: Special forces soldiers and their dogs take part in tandem parachute freefall | Daily Mail Online ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQt80R )
asciilifeform: turns out
trinque: sounds like a great way to get sprayed with shit and piss on the way down
asciilifeform: if muzzle falls off,
asciilifeform: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/49/Picture_of_inverted_hanging.png/220px-Picture_of_inverted_hanging.png
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQtlB0 )
decimation: 'and the dog too!'
asciilifeform: decimation: the dog was there to add 'spice'
asciilifeform: he'd nibble a bit
asciilifeform: notice both hanging by legs
mircea_popescu: motherfucker
mircea_popescu: google is now serving "filtered" results and no way to turn the shit off anymore ?!
mircea_popescu: ;;google skydiving fucking gif
gribble: fuck yeah skydiving: <http://fuckyeahskydiving.tumblr.com/>; Referees Showing Some Sass, a Skydiving Seizure, and the GIFs ...: <https://sports.vice.com/article/referees-showing-some-sass-a-skydiving-seizure-and-the-gifs-you-missed>; airplane+skydiver=fuck - Album on Imgur: <http://imgur.com/a/M4sK5>
mircea_popescu: ^ was going to say teh americans are taking their bitches
mircea_popescu: but no, they aren't.
trinque: censorship, the humor destroyer
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: 'google images' ?
asciilifeform: still shows as optional here
mircea_popescu: Moderate SafeSearch is on and clickable. if you click on it tho,. "Set your SafeSearch preferences in the blue box below." and the blue box says
mircea_popescu: SafeSearch Filtering
mircea_popescu: Google's SafeSearch blocks web pages containing explicit sexual content from appearing in search results.
mircea_popescu: Show most relevant results
mircea_popescu: Filter explicit results.
mircea_popescu: which bs.
trinque: google "skydiving fucking"... get http://s17.photobucket.com/user/wetfrombirthx/media/newyears08066.jpg.html
assbot: newyears08066.jpg Photo by wetfrombirthx | Photobucket ... ( http://bit.ly/1GiyO6n )
BingoBoingo: !up BananaLotus
BingoBoingo: !up guruvan
mircea_popescu: trinque there's this one bangbros if memory serves scene
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: works as usual here
mircea_popescu: where they did actually spend the 28k or w/e to shoot a chick being pounded in air
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform i guess it won't last.
mircea_popescu: google has been on a shitmission the past 5 years or so, it becomes less and less useful.
asciilifeform: what's been censored anyway
asciilifeform: w4r3z ?
mircea_popescu: well, apparently for some reason i can't have pronz in google nao.
asciilifeform: weird
asciilifeform: what else is 'images' used for.
mircea_popescu: last week they came up with the "no pronz in bloigger" thing, which got everyone riled up so they decided they'll just implement it covertly instead of overtly
trinque: mircea_popescu: found this http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=13d_1318607927
assbot: LiveLeak.com - Skydiving Sex Stunt (un-censored version!) ... ( http://bit.ly/1Giz8lA )
mircea_popescu: and generally speaking i'm sick and fucking tired of the new generation of usians and their ideas about the world.
asciilifeform: new?
mircea_popescu: newly voiced.
BingoBoingo: ;;later tell gabriel_laddel Titties of the continent http://motherchubbypornphotos.org/teenfatanalsex/piece/piec/pi1025.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GizfO0 )
gribble: The operation succeeded.
asciilifeform: as if the old idiots didn't try to censor pr0n
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: i read as 'fatal anal sex'
mircea_popescu is fucking riled up.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: lol
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo: does engl. have a catch-term for 'fatal buggery' ?
BingoBoingo: mircea_popescu: Maybe yoy are being singled out
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Yes, "Mr Hands"
mircea_popescu: conspiraci!
asciilifeform: ru 'turkish wedding'
trinque: BingoBoingo: *shudder*
asciilifeform: normally implies spade handle or the like
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Mr Hands died organically, by horse and normal intestinal flora
asciilifeform: 'by horse' l0l
BingoBoingo: !up gabriel_laddel
gabriel_laddel: Thanks.
gabriel_laddel: BingoBoingo: r.e., tits - eww.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform: Literlly, Horse fucked Mr Hands to death
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform some people do a lot more than spade handles, for fun. let me introduce you to daisy, from ny. http://gatsbyswhore.tumblr.com/ <<
assbot: Gatsby's Whore ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQv757 )
trinque: BingoBoingo: only took a few good thrusts
gabriel_laddel: SUBJECTIVE TASTE ISN'T
BingoBoingo: gabriel_laddel: Seriously that one, small waist big tits, what is the problem?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: l0l
gabriel_laddel: I guess I just have different tastes
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: good candidate for smuggling 'mule'
mircea_popescu: yup.
asciilifeform: ... or not. could fall out
asciilifeform: much too easily
mircea_popescu: i kinda suspect that's how the entire anal stretcher niche got to be a thing.
mircea_popescu: nah.
asciilifeform: but at any rate, betcha that thing's way out of calibration
mircea_popescu: http://41.media.tumblr.com/ffd6514e0619eaaa5d2295c912d807ef/tumblr_n877uvkGV61sg0ns8o1_1280.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1GiA9df )
trinque: bet it makes for easier human skull exit
mircea_popescu: "even the asshole shoots once"
gabriel_laddel: http://www.shadbase.com/gamer360/
assbot: Shädbase - L33t Gamer ... ( http://bit.ly/1GiAf4J )
trinque: I wonder if there've been cultures that did fisting as a sort of obvious "of course you fist before squatting out humans"
mircea_popescu: ;;ud squatting out
gribble: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=squatter | squatter. In public toilets one who sits all day on a commode waiting for a penis to come at him through a glory ... We can't get these squatters out of our house!
asciilifeform: trinque: questionable given the actual bottleneck in the system (cervix)
asciilifeform: trinque: not that no one tried - but how well worked.
BingoBoingo: <asciilifeform> ... or not. could fall out << Sutures
trinque: BingoBoingo: zipper!
asciilifeform: superglue
asciilifeform: BingoBoingo behind the times
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform you have a purely anatomical view of what is a physiological process.
mircea_popescu: the girls that fist that i fucked don't have worse grasp than the naive set.
BingoBoingo: asciilifeform> superglue << Too great a chance of "healing"
mircea_popescu: similarly, the girls that can swallow a snake don't puke a lot.
asciilifeform: ^ that one actually makes naive sense
BingoBoingo: Sutures spaced, don't make matching folds the same... cyanoacrylate though...
trinque: mircea_popescu: the thing does seem to have an "accepting" mode
trinque: activated by being well-fucked among other methods I'm sure
mircea_popescu: now obviously if done badly/traumatically the results are more like you know, that guy with the telephone poole
mircea_popescu: another internet classic which is apparently disappeared.
mircea_popescu: pretty sure it was on rotten.com
trinque: I'm off, goodnight all
asciilifeform got up to check on... deer trying to get in
gabriel_laddel: hahaha
asciilifeform: tried to take photo, but 2 in the morning and damn near impossible to get a good shot through glass and mosquito net
gabriel_laddel: mircea_popescu: Why did you choose to name the #b-a lordship as such? Is there a historical system of governance you are drawing inspiration from in particular?
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: the photo in question was the famous 'goatse'
asciilifeform: and it can never disappear
asciilifeform: the lonesome disk that survives the great nukefest will turn out to contain it
asciilifeform to bed
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40800 @ 0.00038703 = 15.7908 BTC [+]
adlai: true legends never die, they simply fade to plaintext... http://goatse.ch/
assbot: ASCII Goatse ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQzWvh )
adlai: gabriel_laddel: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_Serene_Republic
assbot: Most Serene Republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia ... ( http://bit.ly/1GQAjWW )
BingoBoingo: * asciilifeform got up to check on... deer trying to get in << Left side of their face seems to be more receptive to blunt trauma if it comes to that... if your deer are anything like ours
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 59654 @ 0.00038335 = 22.8684 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15147 @ 0.00036571 = 5.5394 BTC [-]
cazalla: haha holy fuck, derpopulous actually told the australian senate (with a straight face) he invisions a kid on a skateboard in indonesia running a billion dollar remittance business
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15904 @ 0.00036571 = 5.8163 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15762 @ 0.00037023 = 5.8356 BTC [+]
fluffypony: lol cazalla
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16400 @ 0.00037023 = 6.0718 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37350 @ 0.00036968 = 13.8075 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47850 @ 0.00036677 = 17.5499 BTC [-] {2}
kakobrekla: http://i.imgur.com/ose0MfD.gifv
assbot: This is bad, i guess. ... ( http://bit.ly/1NfnWIa )
fluffypony: ah South Africa
fluffypony: we're even training our lions, now
fluffypony: source vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeaztQK9If0
assbot: Lion opens car door - YouTube ... ( http://bit.ly/18jEKNs )
adlai: clever girl!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30390 @ 0.00037336 = 11.3464 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform http://i.imgur.com/nnJLHk9.jpg
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/18jFfqX )
mircea_popescu: happened to someone else too!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64542 @ 0.00037357 = 24.111 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4571 @ 0.00036429 = 1.6652 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 65166 @ 0.00036851 = 24.0143 BTC [+] {2}
fluffypony: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=974058.msg10633083#msg10633083
assbot: Chinese Mining mogul FriedCat has stolen more than a million in AM hash SCAM ... ( http://bit.ly/1EMBJ5p )
fluffypony: "I think FriedCat is not a real name. Does anyone know about FriedCat's real identity ?"
fluffypony giggles
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 104400 @ 0.00037767 = 39.4287 BTC [+] {2}
punkman: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B_HZWhmWoAIoxD8.jpg:large
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1F8HkB1 )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00037646 = 4.6681 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35200 @ 0.00038333 = 13.4932 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: mod6: i have (upon some consultation with you) already published kinda-
jurov: so to keep things clear, would be best to notch the version up.. but since you already officially announced it
jurov: then dunno
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 64100 @ 0.000372 = 23.8452 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: btw, #bitcoin-foundation is taken and invite-only
jurov: but #bitcoinfoundation was free and is now regged to me
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52700 @ 0.00038479 = 20.2784 BTC [+]
cazalla: scoopbot fetch
cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/03/leaked-emails-detail-inner-workings-of-josh-garzas-scams/
assbot: Leaked Emails Detail Inner Workings Of Josh Garza's Scams | Qntra.net ... ( http://bit.ly/1BH153L )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22000 @ 0.00037105 = 8.1631 BTC [-]
scoopbot: New post on Qntra.net by cazalla: http://qntra.net/2015/03/leaked-emails-detail-inner-workings-of-josh-garzas-scams/
danielpbarron: https://bitcointalk.org/seclog.php
assbot: Security log ... ( http://bit.ly/1M56OS6 )
danielpbarron: height=249322 vs height=198662 (usb3: height=234461)
punkman: cazalla: lol those emails
cazalla: hilarious eh
jurov: <Pierre_Rochard> ^ what I’m waiting for is an exchange with segregated fiat accounts held by a custodian bank. << what about paymium?
punkman: cazalla: who leaked the emails btw?
punkman: cazalla: "Antonopoulos' appearance as an expect witness" << expert*
cazalla: not sure tbh, likely someone that worked there seeing garza burned bridges with his previous cohorts
cazalla: punkman, ty
punkman: you should find out how much they paid derpopoulos
fluffypony: "just seems pretty armature for him"
fluffypony: wtf spelling
fluffypony: I hope that's autocorrect wobblies on his part
cazalla: fluffypony, nope, that is how he spells
punkman: typing on a touch screen is just the best
fluffypony shudders
fluffypony: children should not be allowed to start companies.
punkman: why not
cazalla: there's more too, not as big a deal but still lulzy.. an employee says he needs some software for his work so garza sends him a cracked ms office https://drive.google.com/a/geniusesatwork.com/file/d/0By3omGwrRu9lcWpYSjZ3Q0IyOVU/view?pli=1
assbot: Microsoft Office 2011 _CRACKED - operatingsystem.rs.zip - Google Drive ... ( http://bit.ly/1M58DhX )
cazalla: guess rumours that he left US for Belguim is true too given his kids airline tickets http://mt.thalys.com/?srvgucc8cjnf4klwcq http://mt.thalys.com/?tonc68vv189e0pbv27
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1wHSL3u )
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1wHSHAL )
cazalla: train even
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46314 @ 0.00038266 = 17.7225 BTC [+]
davout: cazalla: lol
davout: that's next tuesday
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37886 @ 0.0003764 = 14.2603 BTC [-]
davout: if i count correctly
davout: coach 3, seat 16 :D
cazalla: ;;later tell mircea_popescu did ya see kruger of kruger industrial smoothing died?
gribble: The operation succeeded.
mod6: <+jurov> mod6: i have (upon some consultation with you) already published kinda- << wat?
mod6: and i have #btcf
jurov: btc.yt/lxr/satoshi/source/?v= mod6 i explicitly asked you how to label this one
cazalla: apparently kruger shot himself in the head back in 2012 but it didn't work so good
jurov: and the consesus was is as good as any
mod6: oh i see what you're saying
mod6: is that stuff patched?
jurov: yes, it was even published on website
mod6: o.O
mod6: i've never seen this before.
jurov: "chicken" was first version
jurov: then there was (your) build script with
jurov: additional patches
jurov: which we agreed upon to call
jurov: and the development goe son
jurov: http://thebitcoin.foundation/v0.5.3-0-gd05c03a.tar.gz and this is published, don't remember which one is that
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/17QhfMj )
mod6: that's the base code
jurov: chicken?
mod6: no, the unpatched source from the powerrangers.
jurov: aha
jurov: http://ml.therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-January/000037.html and this is what i published as
jurov: because it does include the version bump patch
mod6: which patches does it include specifically?
jurov: you don't know which patches your script includes?
jurov: iirce they are listed here http://thebitcoin.foundation/
assbot: ..::[ The Bitcoin Foundation ]::.. ... ( http://bit.ly/17heCm3 )
mod6: to make it build statically, there is another patch that I still need to submit yet (probably today) and another patch & full source to submit of a modified poratronic build script.
mod6: ah, it was with my script. ok
jurov: :D
jurov: so i propose to go on to .. release early, release often
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12950 @ 0.00038479 = 4.983 BTC [+]
mod6: so yeah, when we said we were going to release in january; we hadn't hit the 160`001 tx sig verification issue yet and we hadn't considered the last-minute requirement of a static build.
mod6: so what you have is ok, but you're missing the stuff that'll be pushed out before we make a signed tar
mod6: which we're referring to as a "milestone" release
jurov: there will be many more bumps. don't expect any Release to End All Releases in near future
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 117550 @ 0.00038551 = 45.3167 BTC [+] {2}
mod6: which will be: v0.5.3 + patches { 1, rm_rf_upnp, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8 (static-makefile) } + modified poratronic build script & release notes.
jurov: better to make more minor releases properly numbered
mod6: we want to ensure that what is "released" actually works, and has been thoroughly tested.
mod6: we do a lot of regression testing :]
jurov: this is same pretense as what phoundation operates "it works we tested it"
jurov: nope. we are at bleeding edge and use at own peril
mod6: heh. ok what i mean is, "it compiles and we got it to fully sync, send/receive, generate..." but yeah, use at your own risk. we want to deliver something that doesn't just blow up -- kinda what ascii was frustrated with yesterday.
mod6: make sense?
jurov: not
jurov: i am just not placing any expectations to any piece of software anymore
jurov: but i understand you as management that wants to label the product somehow,
mod6: haha. ok. but i don't see a problem with testing our own thing. even if no one else uses this, i'd like to know if it works or not.
jurov: that actually stregthens the reason for bumping the version numbers often so that we can say X blows up when.., X+1 does not
jurov: so that people won't act surprised that "there was some version published" like you did few minutes ago
mod6: when we release there will be a formal annoucement to the mailing list, signed patches by ben & I, and an included signed tar of the patched source code with release notes.
Pierre_Rochard: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041323 < thanks for the tip, I’ll set up a euro bank account when I’m in france this summer☝︎
assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 13:11:16; jurov: <Pierre_Rochard> ^ what I’m waiting for is an exchange with segregated fiat accounts held by a custodian bank. << what about paymium?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 228740 @ 0.00038814 = 88.7831 BTC [+] {5}
jurov: Pierre_Rochard: and you're aware it's ran by davout ?
Pierre_Rochard: jurov: I am, brain had not connected all the way to “I should try it out”
jurov: heh
jurov: mod6 so then please if you publish signed build scripts like http://therealbitcoin.org/ml/btc-dev/2015-January/000037.html
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1B6utP2 )
jurov: set the version to 0.5.3.x.dev
jurov: so that no one mistakes that for release
mod6: jurov: so as far as shorter release cycles, i think going forward they will be. the foundation will focus on say, one specific problem and then tackle it, patch it, and then regression test, release.
PeterL: why in c is a long int the same size as int?
mike_c: because int is shorthand for "long int"
mike_c: short int = 16 bits, long int = 32 bits
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 29450 @ 0.00038995 = 11.484 BTC [+]
jurov: trinque, have you tried drakon editor? i actually use it for business logic
jurov: it isn't faster to create the code, but it makes it sooo easier to find the right place where stuff needs to be fixed
jurov: say, after several months
jurov: the downside is, generated code for complicated diagrams isn't anything you'd want to show to anyone
lobbes: Dr-G: You gotta fix your connection, my man. grep -c 'Dr-G' on my logs for yesterday returns over 100 lines...
thestringpuller: mike_c: lies. all lies. this is only if you use strict typing and you machine is coherent. every machine treats it differently!
thestringpuller: short ints however are always shorter than long ints hence the name
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28800 @ 0.00038995 = 11.2306 BTC [+]
jurov: !up Xuthus
jurov: !up indiancandy1
indiancandy1: why thank u
indiancandy1: any one know anything about internet marketing#
PeterL: I am sure you can search for "search engine optimization", or SEO, and lots of sites will come up who promise to help
PeterL: mircea_popescu:asciilifeform http://i.imgur.com/nnJLHk9.jpg << I don't know why, but this made me laugh until my eyes waterred
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1M5tYYw )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43700 @ 0.00039007 = 17.0461 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3510 @ 0.00039117 = 1.373 BTC [+]
thestringpuller: http://imgur.com/RJUknE7
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30283 @ 0.00039142 = 11.8534 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36567 @ 0.00039337 = 14.3844 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 67900 @ 0.00038447 = 26.1055 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8842 @ 0.00038129 = 3.3714 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54300 @ 0.00038129 = 20.704 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12050 @ 0.00039337 = 4.7401 BTC [+]
asciilifeform: for zoologists >> http://housejeffries.com/articles/unix-delenda-est << every month or so, i turn up a new lamer who read my articles but catastrophically failed to get the message. the ones who 'agree', like this specimen, are the worst kind.
assbot: housejeffries ... ( http://bit.ly/1BSLUpS )
PeterL: asciilifeform: why do you say he did not get the message?
asciilifeform: PeterL: article is full of retardation (e.g. 'immutability', 'optimize for novices', etc)
asciilifeform: too much to list
BingoBoingo: Updated http://cryptome.org/2015/03/snowden-hk-security-devices.htm
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1B77x2n )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 167600 @ 0.00037987 = 63.6662 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 55483 @ 0.00038964 = 21.6184 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 118297 @ 0.00039874 = 47.1697 BTC [+] {3}
BingoBoingo: !up sjsqd
sjsqd: Thank you
jurov: !up sjsqd
sjsqd: I'm writing some articles on the bitcoin foundation via Let's Talk Bitcoin
sjsqd: and happened upon http://thebitcoin.foundation/ during a search
assbot: ..::[ The Bitcoin Foundation ]::.. ... ( http://bit.ly/1aLALLE )
sjsqd: Would anyone be interested in discussing it with me?
jurov: just ask
sjsqd: I couldn't find much reference to the original foundation in the documentation
asciilifeform: sjsqd: the first thing to know is that there are two foundations.
sjsqd: but is it correct to title it as the 'pirate' bitcoin foundation?
jurov: sjsqd: the original one is the pirate one
fluffypony: altfoundation
fluffypony: :-P
nubbins`: sjsqd, what jurov said
sjsqd: is this thread official in nature? https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=934517.0
assbot: Introducing new "the only official foundation of Bitcoin" [sign up as president] ... ( http://bit.ly/1aLAPen )
PeterL: this new foundations works on the assumption that the previous one does not exist
sjsqd: ah ok
nubbins`: sjsqd the only official statements are PGP-signed statements from members of assbot's wot
sjsqd: I have done quite an amount of research on the foundation but never seen this page
nubbins`: if you check the mailing list archives on the .foundation website, there's a bunch of stuff there
sjsqd: do you know if anyone from the previous foundation is aware of it?
nubbins`: who cares
sjsqd: will do nubbins`
sjsqd: nubbins`: the goal of my articles is to try and ascertain how transparently the foundation currently operates
asciilifeform: sjsqd: the more heavily-advertised 'foundation' (vessenes, hearn, andresen, et al) was a scam from day one
nubbins`: ^
sjsqd: which I'm not aware anyone else has done so far
sjsqd: its certainly interesting to see two foundations with the same name (:
sjsqd: I will look at the mailing list, if I have further questions is there any email address I could use or is this IRC channel the best method of communication?
PeterL: this chan is best
nubbins`: think of them as the foundation and the phoundation, with the other guys being the ph
BingoBoingo: sjsqd: That foundation has never really had any transparency. Vessenes birthed it in the shadows and snuck out the same way.
sjsqd: ok great, I will keep a record of this channel in my notes then
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 86800 @ 0.0003869 = 33.5829 BTC [-]
sjsqd: https://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/a-fresh-look-at-the-bitcoin-foundation-part-one
assbot: A Fresh Look at the Bitcoin Foundation, Part One | Lets Talk Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1aLAWXl )
sjsqd: This is the first article I made if anyone is interested
sjsqd: second is here: https://letstalkbitcoin.com/blog/post/transparency-a-fresh-look-at-the-bitcoin-foundation-part-two
assbot: Transparency: A Fresh Look at the Bitcoin Foundation, Part Two | Lets Talk Bitcoin ... ( http://bit.ly/1aLAXdR )
sjsqd: I will probably be publishing a third at some point this week
nubbins`: rad
nubbins`: this foundation is more interested in uh
nubbins`: making the codebase not a steaming pile of shit
PeterL: is gmaxwell associated with the phoundation? I remember him coming by here a few times
nubbins`: instead of campaigning/rallying/whatever
sjsqd: nubbins`:interesting
nubbins`: sjsqd the latest foundation release is
sjsqd: nubbins`:given the current state of foundation communications it is actually quite difficult to ascertain exactly what it is tasked with doing
nubbins`: think of it as a LTS stream
sjsqd: I'm still quite new to bitcoin, is the client that you release an alternative client?
nubbins`: it's the official foundation client :D
jurov: no it's the original client
jurov: it should be stripped to bare minimum first
sjsqd: I guess the term official/alternative isn't the best to use
nubbins`: based on the original 0.5.3 source code, with plain ol' unix patches applied to de-turdify it
sjsqd: but I assume the client you work on is different to bitcoin core?
nubbins`: each patch is intended to be small enough that a human can read and understand it
sjsqd: but works with bitcoin just the same as any other client (multibit etc) does?
ben_vulpes: sjsqd: it's just the old code.
nubbins`: the goal is to trim the fat from the oldest still-working code base
ben_vulpes: sjsqd: it's just. old. code.
asciilifeform: sjsqd: starting point was phoundation's release circa 2012
nubbins`: rather than add more fat to the same, which is how the current "bitcoin core" release came to be
sjsqd: ahh ok understood
ben_vulpes: no "gavinblocks"
ben_vulpes: someone removed the "alert" feature
ben_vulpes: dns is on the chopping block, etc.
nubbins`: win32 "features" removed
asciilifeform: already zapped
ben_vulpes: a right, asciilifeform excised the dns.
sjsqd: very interesting
ben_vulpes: no win32, no qt
nubbins`: slowly bringing it closer to the ideal of "one program to do one task"
asciilifeform: in the process of removing the idiot hardcoded seed list
nubbins`: ripping qt was ++
ben_vulpes: the question under consideration is "what precisely does it mean to bitcoinate?"
sjsqd: ok I will save everyone's time and look through the mailing list, I might return with some further questions later on
sjsqd: thanks for your time
ben_vulpes: the goal is to do that and nothing more.
BingoBoingo: <sjsqd> but works with bitcoin just the same as any other client (multibit etc) does? << Very different from multibit. Multibit is based on the Hearn BitcoinJ turd.
jurov: sjsqd, you can peruse the searchable logs here, too
nubbins`: ^
sjsqd: BingoBoingo: I'm not that well acquainted with how the different clients originated or their quality, more just a question of whether it is a bitcoin or an altcoin client; from what I understand it is a bitcoin client
sjsqd: ahh I see the URL for logs in the title
sjsqd: thanks for the pointer
ben_vulpes: sjsqd: a bitcoin client.
sjsqd: ben_vulpes:thanks
danielpbarron: sjsqd, how many LTBcoin did you get for writing those?
sjsqd: I got about 180k for the first one
sjsqd: clocked in at about 40ish USD
sjsqd: but I am holding the LTBcoin
sjsqd: (I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to disclose that)
sjsqd: not enough to live on
sjsqd: but a good alternative income
danielpbarron: what determines how much you get for an article?
sjsqd: you basically earn based upon your proportion of page views
sjsqd: its all calculated automatically as far as I'm aware
sjsqd: there is an editor too who makes my posts more readable
sjsqd: she gets a cut before I do
jurov: sjsqd, you know about qntra? it also pays (kinda) contributors
sjsqd: No I hadn't heard of it
jurov: qnra.net :)
sjsqd: Thanks I will check it out
jurov: * qntra.net
sjsqd: I found out about let's talk bitcoin via the foundation forums (andresen forums if you want to call it that)
danielpbarron: your 180k ltbcoin are worth about 0.02 bitcoin by my estimation
sjsqd: because I made some posts saying the website wasn't adequate in certain terms
danielpbarron: that's like what, 6 bucks?
danielpbarron: i wrote 2 paragraphs for qntra and its worth like 15 bucks
sjsqd: danielpbarron: I'm not interested in writing for money anyway
danielpbarron: lolk, then i guess you're in the right place
sjsqd: according to poloniex 180k is about 0.16
sjsqd: where I live I can't buy bitcoins easily
sjsqd: so its nice to have a little coming in from writing
danielpbarron: i checked the actual DEX
sjsqd: I used to blog years and years ago
BingoBoingo: sjsqd: Anyway the qntra thing can probably also help with some background on differences between the Vessenes' foundation and the (dot)foundation
sjsqd: even with hundreds of thousands of page views I only ever made about 70 USD over 2-3 years
danielpbarron: no you didn't
sjsqd: BingoBoingo:thanks I'll have a look on there
danielpbarron: you said you still have your LTBcoin
danielpbarron: that means you still have.. ltbcoin, not dollars
sjsqd: danielpbarron:I was referring to a different blog
sjsqd: pre-bitcoin days (to some extent)
sjsqd: completely separate platform, just was using it as a point of reference
sjsqd: I might look at writing something for qntra
sjsqd: let's talk bitcoin is interesting because there are quite a few podcasts and such
danielpbarron: podcasts are trash
asciilifeform: sjsqd: there are, approximately, two 'bitcoin universes.' the one where scammers and u.s. fed stoolies scratch one another's backs,
pete_dushenski: sjsqd: I might look at writing something for qntra << wot first http://www.contravex.com/2014/10/13/qntra-reaffirms-wot-irc-yeshiva-in-no-way-optional/
assbot: Qntra Reaffirms That The WoT And IRC Yeshiva Are In No Way Optional | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1AJJS49 )
asciilifeform: and this one.
danielpbarron: nothing of value is discussed in a podcast
PeterL: I would much prefer to read an article than to listen to some guy talking
sjsqd: I don't personally listen to them but there are some interesting topics
danielpbarron: no, there really aren't
danielpbarron: that is a common misconception
sjsqd: I understand the idea of bitcoin universes, I didn't get into it to make a quick buck selling for cash or anything
sjsqd: I read about bitcoin a few years back
sjsqd: downloaded the mining software, my ADD kicked in
sjsqd: and I went and played games
sjsqd: but I've read as much as my mind can understand on it (I'm not a coder though)
danielpbarron: !b 4
assbot: Last 4 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/2F5VY0V.txt )
sjsqd: and I really like the idea of being able to carry around my money on my phone
sjsqd: or have my passport on my phone
danielpbarron: ack a bashed too soon
sjsqd: and I live in a city where the government evolves quickly
PeterL: lol, bitcoin is not meant to be on a phone
sjsqd: so the likelihood of bitcoin being adopted widely is high (although it hasn't happened just yet)
danielpbarron: what does government have to do with it!?
sjsqd: PeterL:I use my phone, Windows computer and a VPS or two to store my coins
PeterL: read the logs, then you will understand how bitcoin should (and should not) be used
sjsqd: danielpbarron:in this specific locale the government has to allow it because of terrorism and money laundering etc
sjsqd: but it is also a locale where you could pay for a house in cash and no one would ask any questions
danielpbarron: what locale is that? everywhere?
sjsqd: Dubai
PeterL: do you consider your phone a safe place for your money?
sjsqd: camel to computer in 30 years
sjsqd: PeterL depends, I try to be sensible about what I install
danielpbarron: clearly you aren't
danielpbarron: you install malware
pete_dushenski: windows is sensible on what planet ?
PeterL: phones can get lost or stolen, then what?
sjsqd: I need it for work unfortunately
sjsqd: my phone is encrypted
danielpbarron: so... stupid..
sjsqd: and cannot be unlocked without pin code
pete_dushenski: a $100 linux laptop does the trick
sjsqd: all my wallets are locked and require separate passwords to open
sjsqd: a friend of mine had his phone stolen
PeterL: how long would it take an attacker to brute force your pin?
pete_dushenski: of course, your level of security depends on how much you're trying to secure
sjsqd: PeterL it wouldn't matter because all my wallets are locked, no passwords are stored locally
pete_dushenski: but no one wants to be another '4,500 btc hard drive in the landfill' guy
sjsqd: I'm looking at upgrading to a phone with a fingerprint scanner
sjsqd: or moving to the Mozilla phone or something
danielpbarron stabs sjsqd
PeterL: pete_dushenski: paper backups are a good idea?
mike_c: easy dpb :) everybody starts somewhere.
sjsqd: pete_dushenski:yes for long term usage, no one is going to pull out a fully fledged laptop to pay for their groceries
pete_dushenski: sjsqd: biometric: http://www.contravex.com/2014/09/27/on-the-stupidity-of-biometric-security-for-smartphones-and-smartwatches/
assbot: On The Stupidity Of Biometric Security for Smartphones and Smartwatches | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/1aLC25j )
PeterL: why do you think you need bitcoin for groceries?
pete_dushenski: PeterL: i'd say so
sjsqd: PeterL:I enjoy eating
PeterL: convert btc -> local cash -> food
asciilifeform: sjsqd: in dubai, famously, there are 'gold atm' - where you run a card and get 100g bricks out. but do you pay for food with these ?
pete_dushenski: sjsqd: just because you like to eat, doesn't mean you should steal food
asciilifeform: !up sjsqd
sjsqd: asciilifeform:haha yes there are 2-3 of them, no I don't own any gold
asciilifeform: sjsqd: but if you did - would you think of paying for groceries with it ?
sjsqd: pete_dushenski:how is it stealing if the vendor eventually accepts bitcoin?
sjsqd: asciilifeform:no I'm very sceptical of gold for a number of reasons
sjsqd: I personally believe that the entire gold/silver/etc markets are manipulated like crazy
sjsqd: and I've seen firsthand how depending upon culture people will dump their life savings into buying some gold
sjsqd: when they get married or as an investment
sjsqd: and then it sits in a cupboard
asciilifeform: and this is the only reason you wouldn't want to pay in a restaurant with gold?
pete_dushenski: sjsqd: it's more along the lines of, just because you like to do something, doesn't mean than a particular avenue of approach is appropriate
sjsqd: its inconvenient obviously
asciilifeform: would you want to pay with diamonds? plutonium? rembrandts ?
sjsqd: asciilifeform:that's why I want to pay with bitcoin or something similar
asciilifeform: for a meal
sjsqd: I only ever pay with cash or my card
sjsqd: and my card has been cloned once, and I've had tons of issues with my bank
asciilifeform: sjsqd: try to understand why bitcoin is more analogous to diamonds or rembrandts than to the national currency you grew up with
asciilifeform: even though surface appearances may deceive
sjsqd: I hate operating hours of banks (even though you can access full bank services till like 10PM at nighttime here)
asciilifeform: and idiots are spending their coin as if it were toilet paper
sjsqd: asciilifeform:yes I kind of understand that bitcoin is more of a long term cryptocurrency (my view anyway) than a day-to-day currency for a number of reasons
PeterL: save in btc, spend dollars
sjsqd: PeterL:there is almost nowhere to even spend it here (beyond paying web hosting bills etc) so I am pretty much saving it right now
asciilifeform: sjsqd: this is actually good fortune, that you've nowhere to blow it just yet
sjsqd: the local currency here hasn't ever really fluctuated
sjsqd: it is permanently tied to the USD
sjsqd: 3.68 AED - 1 USD
sjsqd: the same rating for something like 2 decades
asciilifeform: sjsqd: once you understand the above, it will never occur to you to carry bitcoin on your person in the street, or spend it in a restaurant
PeterL: and you don't see being tied to usd as a problem?
sjsqd: fuel price rarely changes
sjsqd: PeterL:I obviously do, but have little choice in the matter
PeterL: save in bitcoin, then you don't have to be tied to usd
sjsqd: I'm not wealthy (at all) so its more an incapability of keeping more bitcoin at the moment
sjsqd: asciilifeform:I haven't really spent any, only to show friends how it works
sjsqd: On a recent flight I used the plane's WiFi which cost like 1 USD
sjsqd: and managed to teach a friend in pakistan as well as a friend in Dubai how to set up a wallet on their phone
sjsqd: and sent money from 37,000 feet
sjsqd: obviously sent them some dust just to show them how it works
sjsqd: but beyond having to scrape into my savings to pay for a VPS here or there I actually don't have any way to spend it here yet
sjsqd: and I don't carry any worthwhile amount on my phone
danielpbarron: you should better teach them how to run a full node
sjsqd: danielpbarron:that depends on people's technical ability though
danielpbarron: the whole "crypto on your phone" thing is more of a hinderance than a help
sjsqd: danielpbarron:because it doesn't contribute network resources?
danielpbarron: they need to refine technical ability then; don't give them fire without teaching fire safety
lobbes: 'crypto on phone' defeats the purpose of bitcoin
lobbes: which is a secure store of value
lobbes: that only you can access (if you know what you are doing)
sjsqd: danielpbarron:as much as I understand what you're saying its difficult to explain to people the fire safety aspect
sjsqd: Ubuntu is fairly easy
danielpbarron: so is a noose
sjsqd: but is a long way from any sort of plug and play operation
danielpbarron: just slip it over head
sjsqd: unless people understand how to compile software its too difficult
danielpbarron: understanding these things is like understanding how to ride a horse in the 1800s
danielpbarron: if you don't know how, you are practically illiterate
sjsqd: here there are interesting applications of bitcoin besides paying for things with phones
sjsqd: money remittance specifically
sjsqd: 90% of the population are foreign
sjsqd: and send a shit ton of money through methods like western union or their banks
danielpbarron: paying for things with phones is NOT an application of bitcoin!
danielpbarron: you have apple pay and paypal and whatever app of choice for that
sjsqd: do you think there is an altcoin more suited for that?
danielpbarron: no
sjsqd: I would never, ever personally use anything branded by Apple in a million years
danielpbarron: but you use windows..
sjsqd: I don't care if its a lifeboat on the titanic
sjsqd: danielpbarron:mainly because Adobe won't release their software on Linux just yet
sjsqd: Windows is kind of a necessary evil if you want to play modern video games or use 'creative' software
danielpbarron: you won't use apple to literally save your life but you'll use windows to save your job.. ok..
sjsqd: my opinion anyway
sjsqd: I do some photography work so using Adobe is pretty much mandated
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 43100 @ 0.00038453 = 16.5732 BTC [-]
sjsqd: Unless you want to deal with the limitations of GIMP
sjsqd: or deal with Apple's Aperture software
sjsqd: I understand open source could probably do a better job
sjsqd: but we haven't quite reached that point yet
sjsqd: having said that, my disdain for Adobe is growing on a daily basis
danielpbarron: that doesn't excuse you using bitcoin on your windows computer
sjsqd: tbh, if I had the choice I'd have a separate computer for linux and a separate computer for windows
danielpbarron: you do!
danielpbarron: my laptop cost 250 bucks on ebay
sjsqd: I have a laptop and I am moving *towards* that
danielpbarron: and even that is a bit pricy -- i picked one with a fast GPU
sjsqd: but at the moment I have a family member in intensive care unit
sjsqd: and I'm writing articles about the bitcoin foundation
sjsqd: as well as waiting for legalization of my residency status (its been 3 years of not being a resident so far)
sjsqd: so its kinda taken a back seat (:
sjsqd: I will be moving all my financial things onto Ubuntu or something similar fairly soon though
danielpbarron: ubuntu is not recommended
sjsqd: debian?
danielpbarron: maybe
sjsqd: jeez
sjsqd: debian is a challenge
danielpbarron: don't use gnome if so
danielpbarron: lol debian is easy
sjsqd: I've run a few debian VPS servers before
sjsqd: its all about balancing convenience vs security I suppose
sjsqd: screen. I hate screen.
sjsqd: its great functionally but it confuses the hell out of me
danielpbarron: you do realize debian can have a desktop environment, right?
thestringpuller: danielpbarron: you hate podcasts, but do you like radio at all?
sjsqd: the biggest thing I've noticed about computer security is that its almost impossible to get decent biometric security
danielpbarron: thestringpuller, not really
sjsqd: danielpbarron:yeah I tried it once on a VPS but it didn't end well
thestringpuller: danielpbarron: curious to the reason you dislike the medium?
jurov: sjsqd: biometric is overrated
danielpbarron: thestringpuller, if there is something worth discussing, just write a blog post
sjsqd: the problem I have with debian is that unless you run some specific version (I usually run the latest version) most of the documentation on the internet is kinda only 75% there
sjsqd: and unless you're familiar with how to compile etc it gets pretty confusing quickly
thestringpuller: jurov: i kno rite. so not only will someone kidnap me, they'll cut off or extract appendages to unlock my stuff...
danielpbarron: talking free-form into a mic is for people not smart enough to write down what they mean in a concise manner
thestringpuller: danielpbarron: ah. but what about say, Gang Busters? Or rehearsed stuff. Orson Welles War of the Worlds broadcast?
danielpbarron: sjsqd, not that i'm recommmending debian, but it uses a package manager that downloads binaries, not source
sjsqd: danielpbarron:to be fair when it comes to interviews I'd rather hear the full conversation rather than what someone else has cut up from the discussion
danielpbarron: i would recommend gentoo over debian
sjsqd: danielpbarron:yeah apt-get is easy enough to use, but when you need to install a custom altcoin wallet for instance
sjsqd: that is when I get stumped
danielpbarron: well don't do that
sjsqd: although I did manage to compile a few wallets on Ubuntu successfully
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18650 @ 0.00038453 = 7.1715 BTC [-]
sjsqd: danielpbarron:when I get the time I will probably get a harddrive, install a barebones Debian installation on different partitions for each altcoin
sjsqd: so they are completely separete
sjsqd: seperate
danielpbarron: thestringpuller, sure I wouldn't mind someone reading something that had already been written down; that's more like an audio book than a podcast
sjsqd: indeed, separate
danielpbarron: sjsqd, save yourself the trouble and don't install any altcoins
sjsqd: danielpbarron:then how am I going to walk around with my augmented vision paying for things in 20 years time if bitcoin isn't the ideal cryptocurrency?
danielpbarron: http://trilema.com/2014/the-woes-of-altcoin-or-why-there-is-no-such-thing-as-cryptocurrencies/ So for the benefit of all the derps derping about "cryptocurrencies" : there is no such thing. There's Bitcoin and that's it, because there can only be one.
assbot: The woes of Altcoin, or why there is no such thing as "cryptocurrencies" pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu. ... ( http://bit.ly/17RjJtN )
lobbes: sjsqd: what others have said: save in bitcoin, spend in (local currency)
sjsqd: for now that is how I'm operating (especially given no one accepts bitcoin here except like 1 pizza restaurant)
sjsqd: but in the future if I can receive 100% of my pay via cryptocurrency I will
sjsqd: I personally have little interest in cash
danielpbarron: via bitcoin*
sjsqd: on the topic of altcoins
thestringpuller: lobbes: i wouldn't save in bicoin during a bubble
sjsqd: I do see that many of them have ended up as scams and so on
danielpbarron: on the topic of altcoins, they are all scams -- avoid them
sjsqd: but there are a few that have been ok so far
sjsqd: DNOTES is quite interesting
sjsqd: they've put together the first long term savings plan
sjsqd: I have no doubt it is manipulated via bots
danielpbarron: that doesn't make sense
sjsqd: but then again, what isn't nowadays?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12838 @ 0.00037468 = 4.8101 BTC [-]
sjsqd: Well that is what the limitation (in my eyes) is of most altcoins and bitcoin itself
sjsqd: no communication and no marketing
sjsqd: unless you want to dig through 2000 page threads on bitcointalk
sjsqd: stay on IRC 24/7
sjsqd: or use reddit 24/7
danielpbarron: yes! stay on irc 24/7!
thestringpuller: sjsqd: they make logs for a reason...
danielpbarron: forget the forum -- forget reddit; those are distractions
sjsqd: thestringpuller:yes but most people outside of extreme enthusiasts are not going to look through logs
sjsqd: even then
lobbes: forget the forum -- forget reddit; those are distractions << yes
danielpbarron: so? screw them.
PeterL: focus on the log for this chan, yes, that is how you will learn
asciilifeform: sjsqd: what do you need the remaining people for ?
thestringpuller: sjsqd: this is akin to someone pretending to be involved in history and but didn't read any history books.
thestringpuller: sjsqd: this doesn't work.
danielpbarron: What did Noah do when nobody else would get on the Ark? He.. GOT ON THE ARK.
sjsqd: except a history book is just a summary of events in most cases
sjsqd: even if its provides sources, its a summary
jurov: sjsqd if someone takes an effort to do a marketing toward you, they're after your money or soul
jurov: get used to it
sjsqd: to find out what is happening with bitcoin or xyz altcoin it isn't important to read through thousands of pages
sjsqd: jurov:wouldn't surprise me
sjsqd: I did save some money a few years back in a bonds thing backed by the government
thestringpuller: sjsqd: you should probably read some huxely with the logs.
sjsqd: a decent whack of money
sjsqd: sat there for an entire year
sjsqd: and I got 50 USD in interest
sjsqd: not worth it at all
sjsqd: all my bank accounts get chewed out the ass with fees and such
PeterL: sjsqd: important stuff shows up on qntra.net if you don't want to wade through the logs
sjsqd: PeterL:yes I will be adding it to my reading list
danielpbarron: i cashed out some bonds that my grandma got me when i was born; did the math and realized it should have been worth many ounces of gold instead of a measly 1k or whatever it matured to
jurov: !up sjsqd
PeterL: that inflation will kill you on long-term investing
danielpbarron: best gift for a baby? golden pacifier or something
sjsqd: I'm not even that familiar with how traditional currency or banking works
PeterL: sjsqd, you should get in the wot too
sjsqd: but in terms of whether I trust a computer or a human more
sjsqd: I trust a computer
sjsqd: every time I have an issue with a bank it requires dealing with 20 humans
danielpbarron: unfortunately computers are made by humans..
sjsqd: and I'm pretty sure their jobs are going to disappear within a few years
sjsqd: If I want to use my debit card from another country here
sjsqd: I had to try 5 different ATM machines the other day
sjsqd: "DO NOT HONOR"
sjsqd: miraculously it works on a different machine though
danielpbarron: think of FIAT like illegal drugs and you'll have an easier time
sjsqd: not only that
sjsqd: I'm paying like 20 USD just to withdraw cash
thestringpuller: danielpbarron: can you elaborate?
sjsqd: so it *should* work unless the internet is down
sjsqd: I went on a work trip to lebanon once, tried to use my ATM card twice and it lagged out
sjsqd: of course I didn't get any cash
danielpbarron: if you want just a 20-bag, it costs a much higher premium
danielpbarron: than if you bought a whole ounce
sjsqd: but the bank took my money anyway (I got it back after filing forms etc)
sjsqd: I do get the hesitation towards altcoins
danielpbarron: you should better keep savings in bitcoin, and find local street dealers to sell you FIAT as needed
sjsqd: but I do think that at least 2-3 of them will shine above the rest
sjsqd: danielpbarron: there are only a few BTC sellers here so its economically unfeasible to use bitcoin like that yet
sjsqd: I should probably note that I only just moved back here anyway
sjsqd: so I'm not 'set up' just yet
danielpbarron: a few is all it takes to keep it competative, no?
danielpbarron: buy a months worth at a time
sjsqd: that and its a free market
danielpbarron: this ties into the "don't buy groceries with bitcoin" thing
sjsqd: danielpbarron:I wouldn't buy them just yet because cash still works just as well
danielpbarron: buy a months worth of FIAT with bitcoin, and use that to buy groceries
sjsqd: but potentially in 5 years time
sjsqd: if bitcoin or similar is stable enough\
sjsqd: I would use it 100%
danielpbarron: well you can't bring your cash across borders
thestringpuller: danielpbarron: i see what you mean now. re-up on fiat with your bitcoin.
sjsqd: exactly
thestringpuller: now is the best time to do it cause there is not a lot of volatility
sjsqd: and I got permanently banned from using paypal for life too
sjsqd: after several thousand USD worth of transactions and 0 complaints
sjsqd: I used one of those bitcoin exchanges recently
sjsqd: and added all my bank accounts (I have 3 in 3 different countries)
sjsqd: and thought "oh wow this is cool I can now manage all my money from one place sort of"
sjsqd: (keep in mind the bank accounts were verified via the usual 0.01 transaction shit)
sjsqd: then I get a message asking for a copy of my ID as well as a video interview
sjsqd: because I tried to buy $50 USD worth of bitcoin
danielpbarron: kinda the point of why bitcoin will eventually win
sjsqd: exactly
sjsqd: although windows isn't the absolute best solution for computer security
sjsqd: I run a software firewall, as well as malware bytes, an adblocker that blocks malicious sites
danielpbarron: it's not even a mediocre solution; it's not even a consideration
sjsqd: and keep my system 100% updated at all times
danielpbarron slaps sjsqd around a bit with a large update
sjsqd: and I also barely own any cryptocurrency
sjsqd: so at this point in time
sjsqd: running linux exclusively to keep my internet money safe is too inconvenient to be worth it (although I will be moving to a better system very soon)
danielpbarron: a lot of these things were discussed in here recently; you should definitely get to reading the logs
sjsqd: I would actually prefer running some form of cloud OS (provided it was encrypted) for a portion of my holdings
sjsqd: I like the idea of my phone being shot at by terrorists
danielpbarron: no no no bad
sjsqd: and just kinda shrugging
sjsqd: and walking into a phone store and purchasing a new phone
danielpbarron: you are really very stupid
sjsqd: logging in and getting access back in 3-5 minutes
danielpbarron: the only redeeming quality about you is that you ended up here somehow
sjsqd: danielpbarron:that would be for day to day usage
thestringpuller: damn I wish I could have bashed that
sjsqd: danielpbarron: haha, its actually been very many years since I spammed an IRC channel
danielpbarron: that is a luxury afforded to you because you are new
jurov: sjsqd you will never be safe if you treat technology as magic
danielpbarron: now your task is to read the log for at least 6 months
jurov: "just throw this spell to it"
ben_vulpes: <sjsqd> but is it correct to title it as the 'pirate' bitcoin foundation? << no.
sjsqd: ben_vulpes:noted. I had taken that title from what appears to be an unrelated bitcointalk thread.
ben_vulpes: <sjsqd> nubbins`: the goal of my articles is to try and ascertain how transparently the foundation currently operates << the goal of your articles is to apparently rack up pageviews.
ben_vulpes: you yourself may ascertain whatever you may ascertain.
sjsqd: I will definitely write about this bitcoin foundation in my articles at some point
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16019 @ 0.000375 = 6.0071 BTC [+] {2}
ben_vulpes: <nubbins`> think of them as the foundation and the phoundation, with the other guys being the ph << no, we're the fundation!
sjsqd: ben_vulpes:I'm not motivated by money, it is just nice to be able to write something and get at least a little appreciation for it
sjsqd: all I do is tweet the link to the article
ben_vulpes: look into qntra.net
sjsqd: and post it onto /bitcoin/ subreddit
jurov: sjsqd it depends whose appreciation you want
ben_vulpes: <sjsqd> its all calculated automatically as far as I'm aware << so how would you know if things are working as expected?
danielpbarron: yeah, prepare to be hated and banned
jurov: those stupider than you or those more intellinget than you?
sjsqd: I don't spam my article URLs or anything like that (I provided it here because it was relevant to show what I was writing)
sjsqd: I don't think anyone has to read my articles or consider my viewpoint, its just my way of writing about the foundation
ben_vulpes: <sjsqd> I understand the idea of bitcoin universes << what you don't seem to understand is that there are separate WoTs in action.
sjsqd: as there are many issues with the foundation (andresen edition) I was invited to post on the let's talk bitcoin website
sjsqd: so that is purely the reason I ended up writing
lobbes: <sjsqd> I would actually prefer running some form of cloud OS (provided it was encrypted) for a portion of my holdings << Oh god no
sjsqd: for this series of articles I will probably keep them on let's talk bitcoin, but for future articles or if I come up with anything else to write at the same time I might consider qntra.net
danielpbarron: you don't consider qntra; qntra considers you.
sjsqd: danielpbarron:then I would do my best to be considered.
sjsqd: Please understand that I've spent many years of my life writing about issues such as internet censorship and the like
sjsqd: so when a platform exists that can at least reward you a little
sjsqd: you may not be that cynical
mats: nobody cares
sjsqd: (:
mats: kill yourself
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9800 @ 0.00037468 = 3.6719 BTC [-]
ben_vulpes: !down sjsqd
PeterL: mats: kill yourself << a bit harsh?
pete_dushenski: now that it's a bit quieter in here: http://www.contravex.com/2015/03/04/kerckhoffs-history-and-principles-of-military-cryptography-translated-and-adnotated/
assbot: Kerckhoffs’ history and principles of military cryptography, translated and adnotated. | Contravex: A blog by Pete Dushenski ... ( http://bit.ly/17RoW4G )
pete_dushenski: ^new record for longest article
pete_dushenski: i hadn't quite appreciated the size of the undertaking when i started
pete_dushenski: good practise in any event
PeterL: pete_dushenski: good practise in any event << darn canadian spelling looks odd
pete_dushenski: PeterL: lol 'tis british spelling, good sir
BingoBoingo: !up sjsqd
BingoBoingo: sjsqd: Read the logs a while and come back later
BingoBoingo: sjsqd: Try to understand why the second (dot)foundation was discovered necessary
sjsqd: Yes I will. I can already see part of the reasoning when it comes to transparency.
BingoBoingo: sjsqd: Just don't burn too much time on conversation here before you get to understanding a large part of the *why* the (dot)foundation does things as peculiarly as they do. A good amount of history there.
pete_dushenski: http://log1.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=04-03-2015#1041083 << impressive. brings to mind 'spruce goose'
assbot: Logged on 04-03-2015 06:18:52; decimation: asciilifeform: inside a tu-95 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tSVtYib8StY < note the straight key against the outside bulkhead at the comms position
sjsqd: BingoBoingo:sure.
sjsqd: afk.
pete_dushenski: http://www.diseno-art.com/images_7/hughes-h-4-spruce-goose-lar.jpg << nearly twice the length of 737-800, all wood
assbot: ... ( http://bit.ly/1BIrQVw )
ben_vulpes: sjsqd: also, don't poison the well against yourself.
BingoBoingo: https://twitter.com/wiretapped/status/573172370141253632
assbot: I just realized /hashtag/golang?src=hash's "go get" falls back to HTTP when HTTPS fails ☹ /hashtag/RussianRouletteSoftwareDistribution?src=hash /hashtag/CurlPipeSudoBash?src=hash /hashtag/yolo?src=hash /E_I_T
PeterL: other people realizing the dangers of dependencies?
BingoBoingo: pete_dushenski: Well what follows is "#PSA: using @golang's "go get" on conference wifi is equivalent to running a passwordless telnet server on your laptop. srs shame on go devs"
PeterL: does Eulora have an official website?
thestringpuller: PeterL: no.
thestringpuller: someone maintains eulorum.org
PeterL: aha, thanks
BingoBoingo: ben_vulpes: Kid's just been hit with the discovery he's got a year of learning and unlearning to get to zero. Just maybe this one gets there.
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: not everyone can make the journey tho.
BingoBoingo: thestringpuller: Kid's not hopeless though. He was luck enough to make it in the place where he could ask questions and people were polite enough to point him where to start the reading. Rest is on him.
thestringpuller: BingoBoingo: optimistic BingoBoingo is best BingoBoingo
asciilifeform: golang << ahahaha.
asciilifeform: how many of these do we need before we can shoot it in the head and forget ?
PeterL: asciilifeform: you don't like golang?
asciilifeform: PeterL: guess.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: what is rule #1 of the undead?
asciilifeform: PeterL: http://log.bitcoin-assets.com/?date=16-01-2015#979697 << see old thread☝︎
assbot: Logged on 16-01-2015 23:44:58; *: asciilifeform was simply floored with mindfuck that anyone would choose google's turdlang for a piece of critical infrastructure, and could not resist ringing the bell
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: 'scatter the pieces'
jurov thought of rule 34
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: so brought up ADA at work, and coworker started having Vietnam-esque flashbacks from school. Is this normal behavior?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: absolutely
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: try 'scheme' on him
asciilifeform: never fails to bring back 'vietnam'
PeterL: and this is what you want people to use?
thestringpuller: this compels me to learn the language more.
asciilifeform: PeterL: life-critical embedded systems must be written in a typesafe, bound-safe standardized language with hard-real time run (that means no garbage collection) and static memory alloc.
asciilifeform: PeterL: there is precisely one such language in existence.
BingoBoingo: !up qntranet
BingoBoingo: Hello visitor
asciilifeform: PeterL: it's ugly as sin, and originally usg-promulgated, but that doesn't change the facts.
PeterL: could we make a prettier version?
asciilifeform: PeterL: sure, go make. we'll check again in 50 yrs.
PeterL: ok, I'll get right on that
asciilifeform: PeterL: but you'll find that much of what programmers actually object to in ada is precisely the good parts
PeterL: what part do you find ugly?
asciilifeform: 'it's not sexy. whaddayamean i have to specify thing'
BingoBoingo: !b 7
assbot: Last 7 lines bashed and pending review. ( http://dpaste.com/1W3HXTC.txt )
asciilifeform: PeterL: the pascal syntax mostly
asciilifeform: but even it contributes to the actual purpose of the thing.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3950 @ 0.00037468 = 1.48 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: which is safety and nonambiguity at any cost.
PeterL: in my initial introduction to ada, it seems verbose, with extra words hanging around where a symbol could work just fine
asciilifeform: that's just about everybody's first impression
asciilifeform: then you actually read a book and try to think of which 'verbosity' could be cut
asciilifeform: and find that you are actually snipping off a living organ and not dead weight.
asciilifeform: there is even a 'rationale' document (also book) ready to argue with you
jurov: http://cs.fit.edu/~ryan/ada/programs/ << some samples
assbot: Ada Programs ... ( http://bit.ly/1BIwYJr )
asciilifeform: it's numbered like a bible - for folks to quote chapter & verse.
PeterL: well, it has the same named closing tags like you complain about in html (begin thing ... end thing)
asciilifeform: PeterL: has many things that feel 'heavy'
asciilifeform: but the result adds up to the fact that there will never, ever be an 'underhanded ada contest'
PeterL: programs should be boringly obvious what they are doing?
asciilifeform: precisely.
kakobrekla: http://dangerousminds.net/comments/bank_of_canada_urges_star_trek_fans_to_stop_spocking_their_fivers
assbot: Bank of Canada urges ‘Star Trek’ fans to stop ‘Spocking’ their fivers | Dangerous Minds ... ( http://bit.ly/1BIxgjm )
pete_dushenski: lmao!
pete_dushenski: spocking "may interfere with the security features and reduces its lifespan."
pete_dushenski: the lifespan of the polymer bills is already mediocre
pete_dushenski: not that they wear out, of course, but they snap like a twig in the cold
pete_dushenski: also, melt on car dash
pete_dushenski: not sure why cash would be on car dash, but hey
jurov: bundle ready for tickets
PeterL: pete_dushenski: not that they wear out, of course, but they snap like a twig in the cold << the dangers of living in a frozen wasteland
pete_dushenski: !up airgapped
pete_dushenski: PeterL: to say nothing of the bears !
lobbes: So one defines their own data types in ADA? I'm not sure why I find that interesting
pete_dushenski: http://dangerousminds.net/comments/vintage_purses_with_bold_feminist_slogans << what do you even say to a girl who sports a purse that says 'choice' or 'my body my business' ?
assbot: Vintage purses with bold feminist slogans | Dangerous Minds ... ( http://bit.ly/1M7KgC5 )
danielpbarron: pete_dushenski, "how much do you charge?"
pete_dushenski: this could be a fun caption contest
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10000 @ 0.00037468 = 3.7468 BTC [-]
pete_dushenski: ima header. cheers!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7400 @ 0.00037468 = 2.7726 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4350 @ 0.00037468 = 1.6299 BTC [-]
mats: dow down 100 points huhu
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11700 @ 0.00037644 = 4.4043 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3950 @ 0.00037644 = 1.4869 BTC [+]
bitstein: This is pretty lulzy: https://github.com/jonasnick/eth-neg-value-tx
assbot: jonasnick/eth-neg-value-tx · GitHub ... ( http://bit.ly/1FaSe9C )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18300 @ 0.0003725 = 6.8168 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: http://undeadly.org/cgi?action=article&sid=20150304092744
assbot: LibreSSL 2.1.4 ... ( http://bit.ly/1zL8JVk )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22500 @ 0.00037051 = 8.3365 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6100 @ 0.00037281 = 2.2741 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: cazalla i had not no
mircea_popescu: Dear Customer,
mircea_popescu: We detected irregular card activity on your American Express Check Card on 4 March,
mircea_popescu: 2015. As the Primary Contact, you must verify your credit card activity before you can
mircea_popescu: continue using your card, and upon verification, we will remove any restrictions
mircea_popescu: placed on your card.
mircea_popescu: dude, the fucking notion that this shit sounds credible.
mircea_popescu: unrelatedly,
mircea_popescu: Theodore Sturgeon, respected creative and prolific science fiction author, shed the following offhand remark which instantly codified as Sturgeon's Law: "90% of everything is shit." One might visit a university library and walk through Women's Studies or hyphenated-American literature areas and wonder where Sturgeon's 10% is cloistered. Why pay parking fees? The 90% will come knocking at your door, then break it down d
mircea_popescu: emanding entry.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11552 @ 0.00037467 = 4.3282 BTC [+] {2}
asciilifeform: sumbody's been reading al
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19400 @ 0.00037212 = 7.2191 BTC [-] {2}
asciilifeform: and mircea_popescu appears to get exactly the same spam as my spam-magnet, turd for turd
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform im sure it's all the same. but the point being... this works ?
mircea_popescu: why. how.
asciilifeform: cargo cult
asciilifeform: quite likely it never once worked.
asciilifeform: or, to the spamz0r's great misfortune - exactly once.
asciilifeform: resulting in lifetime cargoaddiction
mircea_popescu: heh
mircea_popescu: sadly i don't have credit cards, as i don't subscribe to open liability deals. but i wonder what the original texts say
mircea_popescu: i imagine this must be cribbed off one
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: i don't have credit cards << do you deal with credit at all (i.e. loc)?
mircea_popescu: sure.
thestringpuller: random point: do you think bitcoin will ever be ready for credit?
thestringpuller: given people playing banker in 2012
asciilifeform: iirc wot folks have borrowed from one another before
thestringpuller: ah I guess the liquidity loan from F.MPIF -> S.WOL is similar
thestringpuller: but that was interest free loan no?
asciilifeform: (though it is potentially - and thus, in fact is - an infinite-liability deal; how can you guarantee that you will find the coin to repay)
thestringpuller: ^- exactly
asciilifeform: and what kind of collateral could possibly suffice for btc
thestringpuller: ^- really nothing. definitely not fiat
asciilifeform: (let's say tomorrow's 'day x' and 1 btc > your organs)
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: repay with your life? (not in sense of deadmen don't pay, but contractual servitude)
asciilifeform: so borrowing btc, as shown above, is an uncapped liability
asciilifeform: as is, conversely, lending
asciilifeform: (you lose 1btc because poor schmuck couldn't come up the the ten sets of organs, only one, and you lost most of what you lent him)
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: what somebody's worth as a slave is still a finite sum, that isn't especially difficult to come up with (ask the romans)
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: then in that case entire meatspace family is in servitude? wasn't this a thing in history? Can't repay debt so X generation of people are slaves?
mircea_popescu: thestringpuller these things aren't related. bitcoin has been fine for credit for years. idiots aren't or ever will be ready for life.
mircea_popescu: <thestringpuller> but that was interest free loan no? << no.
asciilifeform: ^ if above reasoning is flawed, i'd like to learn how
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform by having bitcoin revenue, of course.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: problem is that most sources of bitcoin revenue are made of flesh and likely to suffer damage on hypothetical 'day x'
mircea_popescu: this is not true.
asciilifeform: say, you are in the habit of selling $gizmos for btc
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: but what if your revenue stream is no longer a stream but a trickle like man with swollen protrate trying to pee?
mircea_popescu: imaginary sources of bitcoin, pretend "bitcoin businesses" like coinbase or w/e suffer from the problem ytou describe
mircea_popescu: actual bitcoin companies, such as for instance listed on mpex, generally don't have the problem.
asciilifeform: btc heats up, begins to climb, revenue drops..
mircea_popescu: this widely consensusified notion has no met any sort of practical validation so far.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: mpex, as i understand, consists of ultra-long-haul folks
mircea_popescu: bitbet largest revenue to date is not when btc was 3 bux
thestringpuller: mircea_popescu: i would say this is true for the zero asset corporations. the non-zero asset corporations seem to be holdling their own, but too early to tell.
mircea_popescu: anywya, it was a point long discussed (among the financial minds) that the nature of btc makes distinction of loans and equity difficult. this was principally centered around the mpoe bonds back when those ran.
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: is your explanation essentially that exchange value of btc (in the secular world at large, not speaking of usd in particular) and the btc income of a well-organized business are tightly coupled and the 'rope never breaks' ?
mircea_popescu: buncha threads from 2011/2012 prolly very informative for this topic
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5800 @ 0.00037051 = 2.149 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the explanation is that "exchange value of btc" is a broadly meaningless notion, and only vaguely useful as a temporary crutch.
mircea_popescu: there is no such thing as the "exchange value of money". money is the one thing without an exchange value, being the exchange value of all things.
asciilifeform: defined strictly for the purpose of this line of inquiry as 'that which might cause btc sphincters to tighten and less to be spent tomorrow'
mircea_popescu: consider the bank loans you money for a mortgage, and tomorrow houses go for 2 dollars each.
mircea_popescu: this sort of counterfactual is a tad nonsensical.
mircea_popescu: but that aside : the terms of the loan specify the recourse, and that's that.
asciilifeform: 'asteroid falls, everyone died'
mircea_popescu: (which is why i won't take a mortgage deal that has recourse past the item bought, nor would any sane businessman. yet usian idiot consumers regularly do, because hey. they've come to expectorate.)
asciilifeform: but mircea_popescu is right re: earlier observation that the mega-bubble didn't seem to kill anyone
asciilifeform: mircea_popescu: afaik 100% of mortgage deals in usa do
mircea_popescu: nope.
mircea_popescu: only chump ones.
asciilifeform: that is, if you default they take money+house
mircea_popescu: you can write whatever contracts you wish.
asciilifeform: and the money consists of what 'is worth now' according to magic arse rng
mircea_popescu: the trick is to not write that many donations while alive
asciilifeform: there are non-chumpatronic mortgages?
mircea_popescu: of course.
asciilifeform: how does that even work
mircea_popescu: limited recourse, or no recourse deals.
asciilifeform: no recourse ?
mircea_popescu: the former are mortgages proper (if the payer goes bust you get the item and that is all) , the latter are commercial paper (if the payer goes bust you suck it).
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15694 @ 0.00037051 = 5.8148 BTC [-]
asciilifeform: how can it work in the latter case, payer stops paying and keeps the goods ?
mircea_popescu: no recourse real estate deals are in the vast majority of the time attempts by some crown or other to hike the land values.
asciilifeform: or - his creditors
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: you've said GNAT is bad, you would not have it with a GNU or in a zoo?
mircea_popescu: like, give a million no recourse loan to the nude girlies show to produce itself on your new fairgrounds
thestringpuller: What ada compiler should I learn on?
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: gnat's the only game in town for ada
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform payer can't keep going and stop paying.
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: gnat
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: how to get it on your system is a puzzler that you would have to resolve
thestringpuller: nah already done
asciilifeform: (will point out, for the record, that there are other adas, not descended from gnat - but i will never see them so long as i live, and quite likely neither will you)
mircea_popescu: ;;bc,stats
thestringpuller: lol gtk-ada
gribble: Current Blocks: 346203 | Current Difficulty: 4.668437631686029E10 | Next Difficulty At Block: 346751 | Next Difficulty In: 548 blocks | Next Difficulty In About: 3 days, 19 hours, 58 minutes, and 19 seconds | Next Difficulty Estimate: 47829064524.1 | Estimated Percent Change: 2.45197
asciilifeform: thestringpuller: for folks who need graphical whatevery
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7150 @ 0.00037755 = 2.6995 BTC [+]
thestringpuller imagines asciilifeform reading graphs as their tabular representation and constructing image in mind
thestringpuller: what was that thing you showed us a while back...ratpoison? Some OS
hanbot: hey asciilifeform! i'm putting a gentoo box together for playing eulora, i want it nice and secure, have zilcho gentoo experience. how wouldja advise me?
thestringpuller: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ratpoison << ah found it
asciilifeform: hanbot: if it's a reasonably recent gentoo with reasonably recent contents, there is no escape but to read the manual.
asciilifeform: hanbot: https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Handbook:AMD64 << 'installation' << assuming you're on an x86 system
assbot: Handbook:AMD64 - Gentoo Wiki ... ( http://bit.ly/1Fbigt9 )
hanbot: asciilifeform thanks, will dig in.
mike_c: hanbot: if you install gentoo and eulora from scratch it would be cool to have a step-by-step for http://www.eulorum.org/Installing_Eulora#Gentoo
assbot: Installing Eulora - Eulorum ... ( http://bit.ly/1B3E4Yd )
hanbot: mike_c noted!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 14300 @ 0.00037755 = 5.399 BTC [+]
gabriel_laddel: http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/egggun.htm http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/rit.htm http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/pringle.htm http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/blood.htm http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/fat.htm http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/olestra.htm http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/petit.htm http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/garden.htm
assbot: ASK DR. SCHUND ... ( http://bit.ly/1B3HABT )
assbot: INTELLIGENT DYE SIGN ... ( http://bit.ly/1B3HBWm )
assbot: THE FREE SAMPLE ... ( http://bit.ly/1B3HDNY )
assbot: ASK DR. SCHUND ... ( http://bit.ly/1B3HDO4 )
assbot: THE FAT IS IN THE FIRE ... ( http://bit.ly/1B3HCcX )
assbot: IT'S NOT JUST FOR LUNCH ANY MORE! ... ( http://bit.ly/1B3HDOc )
assbot: Petitjean's Quantitative Chirality ... ( http://bit.ly/1B3HE4D )
assbot: ASK DR. SCHUND ... ( http://bit.ly/1B3HE4L )
gabriel_laddel: ^ All Al articles absent from the homepage.
gabriel_laddel: (that can be found in the first 10 pages of google results)
gabriel_laddel: (that are not preliminary drafts of PURSUING THE LIMITS OF FAILED SYMMETRY)
gabriel_laddel: oh, and these: https://www.fictionpress.com/u/427609/Uncle-Al
assbot: Uncle Al | FictionPress ... ( http://bit.ly/1FbnmFM )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9629 @ 0.00037111 = 3.5734 BTC [-]