assbot: [HAVELOCK] [RENT] 164 @ 0.0145 = 2.378 BTC [+]
nubbins`: except the guys w/ the plastic bags
Adlai: the meaning of 'me' which is consistent in this system is: "the thing which you perceive yourself as communicating with"
trinque: times in the past I have had cluster headaches
trinque: caused by various head injuries over the years
trinque: in the midst of that level of pain no one ever questions where he begins and where he ends
trinque: stab the clone and nothing *here* happens
Adlai: orthodox jew in a fullbody condom
Adlai: probably to prevent physical contact with female flight attendants
☟︎ nubbins`: asciilifeform apparently some hasidic jews feel they are not permitted to fly over cemeteries
jurov: i'd fuck myself. we'd only have to resort to reading /dev/random about who goes first.
☟︎ nubbins`: the airport in tel aviv is surrounded by cemeteries
nubbins`: this man is -- no joke -- protecting himself from w/e by completely enclosing himself in a plastic bag.
Adlai: there's a sub-race (seriously, they consider themselves a separate tribe-within-the-tribe) who are not allowed to / don't enter cemeteries
Adlai: yes. in the idf, when we had guided tours of mt hertzl (big military cemetary), they always asked before entering if there were any of them present
Adlai: lest one accidentally trespass
nubbins`: "Kohenim are prohibited from coming into contact with dead bodies, and many rabbis have taken the strict opinion that a Kohen may not ride in a plane if he knows ahead of time that it will fly directly over a Jewish cemetery."
trinque: ultimate trolls, whoever thinks up these rules
Adlai actually thought the officer was kidding, the first time this happened
nubbins`: "The man wrapped in plastic, whose photograph first appeared on the Redditor site and later on the Gothamist site, apparently did not want to take any chances. By covering himself in plastic, he established a separation between him and impurities."
bitstein: Yea, I remember when I was on my birthright trip, my friend stayed behind when we visited Mt Hertzl.
trinque heads home, enjoyed the philosophical bullshit session
Adlai: in the case of the army - it would be a terrible failure for the officer to let such a thing happen!
nubbins`: examine the utter failure of logic by this man
☟︎ nubbins`: srsly, a fucking /plastic bag/.
jurov: i'd ask them, what if there's a cemetery below him in australia?
Adlai only has distant secondhand knowledge of orthodox theology
jurov: dunno if i could resist to troll them with a bone
nubbins`: gl explaining that to security
Adlai: what i do know is that one guy took cold showers on the sabbath, because if he opened the hot water tap, it might trigger the thermostat in the base's boiler
Adlai: emphasis on "might", didn't help to point out that the boiler basically works 24/7 and still doesn't keep up
nubbins`: which ender's game book was it where they created a race of smart people genetically predisposed to OCD?
Adlai: either xenocide or children of the mind
jurov: good that unlike jooz, we have danielpbarron that knows exactly what the letters say
nubbins`: yeah. reminds me of that in some ways
Adlai: (which were supposed to be one book, but eventually didn't 'fit in head')
nubbins`: i got through about 7 of those books before giving up
Adlai just read the first 4. regrets seeing the movie.
nubbins`: just earth geopolitics after a while
Adlai: you know, the ones that actually have a plot
danielpbarron:
http://www.atruechurch.info/sabbath.html Those who totally stop every work of their own righteousness (Psalm 16:2; Romans 4:5, "does not work"), and believe on Him who justifies the ungodly (Romans 4:5), these are those who fulfill the law (Romans 8:4) and keep a perpetual Sabbath (Hebrews 4:3-4, 9-10).
nubbins`: ender's shadow is nb if you haven't read it
Adlai: right. ender's game's plot, with different words. it doesn't have its own plot, and i need a few decades before i can read this author again, after children of the mind
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 41400 @ 0.00029872 = 12.367 BTC [+] {3}
nubbins`: that's sorta the last one i enjoyed
Adlai: children, or shadow?
Adlai enjoyed it too, but it was just too long
nubbins`: speaker for the dead and xenocide were the height
Adlai: read it back when i had 4-5 hours of daily reading time in middle school
nubbins`: i read an enormous amount of fiction in uni
nubbins`: not much required reading for a cs/math joint major
nubbins`: did 1 english course (2 req'd for b.sc., did AP english in hs)
nubbins`: 24yo nubs was not impressed w/ having to take 1000-level english course with 18y/o's
nubbins`: skipped 4 consecutive weeks of classes mid-semester, came out w/ an 88 and a letter from the faculty pleading me to change majors
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4900 @ 0.00028926 = 1.4174 BTC [-]
assbot: Transition Dreams by Greg Egan "We can't tell you what your own transition dreams will be. The only thing that's certain is ... (
http://bit.ly/1HbTOsz )
trinque: luminous is sitting a few feet away
Adlai: nubbins`: 'english' = literature | composition ?
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: you may appreciate this thought. So I like XC running, so I just like to run to work out. At some point it's like your body is heating up like a GPU trying to run a video game (hence sweat). So I've always thought of exercising as our bodies running "tough programs". lol
nubbins`: thestringpuller have you ever thought of eating a large quantity of muscle meat as running a tough program? 8)
jurov: yes, on such meat branch prediction and caching fail all the time
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 35600 @ 0.0002953 = 10.5127 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: "gee, i wonder why the poor cat isn't scaling the wall after being sprayer with permethrin and not being fed for a week"
mircea_popescu: "could a rope and an open can of tuna solve this problem ? naaah, best call the plumber!"
mircea_popescu: but i guess it's because we're sociopaths, aka, idiot-intolerant.
mircea_popescu: exactly. my objection isn't particularly that the cat got hurt as much as it is the guy didn't.
danielpbarron: where does he move from that doesn't have cats? how did he figure out how to move??
mircea_popescu: actually i used to know, many years ago, an old, 2/3 tailless , earless, blind tomcat.
mircea_popescu: actually hanbot used to feed chicken livers to this blind dog that had a helper tripod dog (one limb cut off, prolly in tram accident).
danielpbarron: i got bit by a feral cat and freaked out less than this guy; didn't go to doctor even
nubbins`: the guy sprayed a can of raid in a cat's face?
nubbins`: is relieving him of his skin before he gets sent to the salt mines an option?
mircea_popescu: permethrin is this contact insecticide that is well tolerated by mammals,
mircea_popescu: i was just filling in the gaps, dunno wtf he actually used,
nubbins`: actually yeah permethrin+cats, i remember that one
nubbins`: permethrin woulda been great for my hammock when i went to colombia ;/
nubbins`: "a strange happened so i badded it"
mircea_popescu: <nubbins`> "a strange happened so i badded it" << quite.
mircea_popescu: bs. the problem there isn't anything to do with "people". dependent cattle behave outrageously if taken outside of their pens.
mircea_popescu: that's the long and the short of it. has nothing to do with people.
mircea_popescu: the word for this can be "civilised", but it just as well be "fucking stupid".
mircea_popescu: "o look, the usual crutches i use to hide my idiocy don't work, now it's nude on display".
mircea_popescu: so what if it does. tb goes with pallor, we don't call one the other.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24400 @ 0.0002943 = 7.1809 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: it starts with "you will be beaten daily until you know how this works"
mircea_popescu: directly anticultural, and through that mediation, civilisation-destroying.
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> tries to exercise a delusion of control over his environment via the only means he knows how - by smearing his surroundings, and if you let him - entire planets - with his shit << this, is, fundamentally, "social media", as the recent maddox link amply explains.
mircea_popescu: or the one before that. or i suppose most of his links.
mircea_popescu: you will not be on trial for ox damaging, but for human misbehaving.
mircea_popescu: similarly in the recently invented "sex tourism" trials, you're not on trial for there bering a fgucked 12yo in thailand, but for there being a usian citizen that had some fun.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if it were about ox damage it'd be a fine.
mircea_popescu: only as a result of having taken ownserhip of teh citizenry.
mircea_popescu: how did that inept quote go, "citizens ask for permission."
assbot: Logged on 17-03-2015 19:25:54; mircea_popescu: "Citizens ask for permission, expats ask for forgiveness" << maybe he should ask for a nailgun.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` hey, what;d you cost to make qntra business cards for a dozen ppl and ship em ?
mircea_popescu: same design, name/surname, nick, gpg key on one side, qntra this that on the other ?
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 22:48:21; trinque: you cannot interact with you
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61400 @ 0.00028516 = 17.5088 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: he, superficially, has an autodidact's understanding of the basics. that means they are subtly broken. he then proceeds from there, and errors compound.
mircea_popescu: kinda why people go to school : so they can be in the company of their betters (something us kids have serious mental issues with) where they can create this sort of braindamage, be bullied for it, fix it, and so end up sane.
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 22:51:23; jurov: someone go grow a finger from yudkowski's dna and tell him you have the rest of his clone in cellar
nubbins`: mircea_popescu say 600 bezzlars for a dozen people to get 250 cards each, design + shipping at actual cost
nubbins`: (hand-printed bizniss cards for $50 per head, you say?!)
nubbins`: contrast the economy of scale here to alf's $200 book ;(
mircea_popescu: i can go for that as a qntra perk. you gonna be willing to keep the design and make more of the same if these folks run out / for new folks ?
nubbins`: we index all our graphics & films, totally
mircea_popescu: im thinking cazalla bingoboingo thestringpuller danielpbarron right off the bat, cazalla lemme know who else should go in the magic dozen.
nubbins`: any of the above who have particular ideas about how they want their cards to NOT look, best speak up
danielpbarron: i like simple / white background black text sorta thing
mircea_popescu: nubbins` : name/surname ; nick ; gpg/gpg on one face, dunno exactly what should be for qntra on the other.
danielpbarron: i literally have a crate of business cards saved up
mircea_popescu: later tell bingoboingo here is your very helpful trigger : ^
mircea_popescu pictures danielpbarron doing that thing with the cards in american psycho
nubbins`: i actually need to print more for myself
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell bingoboingo here is your very helpful trigger : ^
nubbins`: mircea_popescu i never understood the concept of a "paper erection" until i got into this biz, ya know
mircea_popescu: but the film could definitely have done with a lot more and a lot better nudity.
nubbins`: now it's all flared nostrils & running fingertips over things
danielpbarron: oh yeah, not some weird non-standard shape / fold-out w/e
mircea_popescu: a showgirls style casual nudity meets american psycho casual psychopathology would rock.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` noteven for ronald mc donald / gavin mcsatoshi / etc ?
nubbins`: puzzle or word search on the back maybe
mircea_popescu: course, not so easy to pull it off, need just the right kinda asshole.
nubbins`: we did some gold on black recently
nubbins`: not sure if i have pics handy, but i know there's a couple cards downstairs
nubbins`: actually, bird book has gold on black as well
mircea_popescu: hired another lawyer the other day, left him my card, then when we met socially later he was like... well the office tried to figure out wtf. first we thought those must be like mail codes of your country. but then that didn't make sense. so susie said you must be in porn.
nubbins`: not quite the best shot to show it off, but yknow
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10650 @ 0.0002943 = 3.1343 BTC [+]
nubbins`: that's actually a pure gold base w/ some orange pigment added
nubbins`: what am i gonna do with a steel business card
nubbins`: s.nsa cards w/ cardano pcb traces silkscreened in copper ink
mircea_popescu: you know, there's this legend that actually happened of romanian mobster that got shot coming out of a restaurant
mircea_popescu: except he was shotwith a .38 and he was carring money. so it didn't go through.
nubbins`: 50% transparent mask layer on top
mircea_popescu: so... have a buncha steel business cards, make your own armor
mircea_popescu: it did work. bullet didn't even make it through the whole ~200 leaves.
nubbins`: asciilifeform the only material difference between one and the other is the substrate
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform if i remember correctly, usg is on record saying they lack the ability to input a printed gpg privkey.
mircea_popescu: was in some court case or other during the great assault on private email providers of 2012-2013
mircea_popescu: that had me for a chuckle, you know ? "too lazy to type it in, it's like characters and shit"
mircea_popescu: then on the other line alf was going nuts about kbd emanations good for 20 meters even!
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 22:56:06; trinque: there's a mental defect where one considers himself to be an idea
mircea_popescu: One more dies one more lives, one baby cries One mother grieves...
mircea_popescu: DEFINITELY a better approach to the entire eliezer/potter bs than either of the proponents.
mircea_popescu: (there's a widely known, at least in europe, welt der kunst, world of art. /me had classmates going for a while that it simply means "wealth of cunts")
nubbins`: ;;google mommy and me are animals
nubbins`: i actually ran into this guy in berlin last summer, hey?
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 23:06:34; nubbins`: and much realer than rololol's basilisk
decimation: asciilifeform: re: asciilifeform: presumably they keel over somewhere else, in a designated place < cats are well known for anticipating their deaths and crawling up some inaccessible hole beforehand to die
decimation: probably some kind of protection instinct
mircea_popescu: nubbins` you know what i'd like to see, a reality show of this guy and athene the best paladin in the world (with his mother)
assbot: Best Paladin of The World pwning nubs on My Heart Will Go On from Celine Dion (ATHENE #1) - YouTube ... (
http://bit.ly/1FOCdsp )
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 23:07:43; nubbins`: unless you're bringing quantum tunneling into it 8)
decimation doesn't own cats, but has heard several anecdotes
nubbins`: mircea_popescu just checking to see if anyone was paying attention 8)
mircea_popescu: anyway : quantum tunneling is the observed property of quantum "particles" to interact at a distance without ever interacting with whatever's separating their first position from the second.
mircea_popescu: this is most annoying when for instance electrons ignore dielectrics
nubbins`: that's quantum entanglement, no?
nubbins`: quantum tunneling is when i go outside but skip the door
mircea_popescu: quantum entanglement is the property of two apparently distinct "particles" to share more than they should.
mircea_popescu: as a rule of thumb, the first occurs over tiny distances, the 2nd is distance-invariant
mircea_popescu: nubbins` yes, something like that. as if you could only be right before or right after the door but not in between.
nubbins`: this is all the sort of thing i understand while reading it but don't really copy it over to long-term storage
mircea_popescu: but then again in qm, your existence is not so distinct from your energy.
decimation: no if you read the article, the 'startup' is actually a division of tucows, the domainame freeware site
decimation: and they are merely 'operating' the network after westminster, md builds it
decimation: " "We want to blow this thing up, and we want disruptive services at disruptive pricing," Robert Wack, Westminster's city council president, told me. "We've got Comcast and its usual suite of services, Verizon DSL, with its patchy service areas, and dish and satellite services. Nobody is happy with any of it, and none of it has the capacity we need to take this city into the future.""
decimation: apparently tucows is on usg's shitlist because it won't play ball
decimation: essentially no say in the content of the websites on its roster, Bunton told me. "
decimation: yeah I guess that's the idea, but it seems dubious that usg will tolerate such behavior
decimation: especially when it has its own blessed monopolists
nubbins`: wonder will the town wait to be sued before giving up subscriber info
nubbins`: if i wanna see a card trick, i don't want you to hold the deck face-up
nubbins`: man, i remember tucows from back when i had to buy a book to use the internet
decimation: asciilifeform: I don't get why we don't still use the guillotine
assbot: Logged on 07-01-2015 00:39:01; *: asciilifeform has been enjoying 'Seeing Justice Done. The Age of Spectacular Capital Punishment in France.' (Paul Friedland.)
assbot: Logged on 27-07-2014 17:35:40; asciilifeform: the one common anthropological thread i see here is that most governments insist on some 'national' symbolic meaning in their chosen means of execution. e.g., the french guillotine across all five 'republics'
assbot: Logged on 27-07-2014 17:36:01; asciilifeform: when usa was a techno-power, electric chair was king
assbot: Logged on 27-07-2014 17:36:20; asciilifeform: banana republics, soviet world - shooting
assbot: Logged on 27-07-2014 17:39:58; asciilifeform: so from this it follows that the current ceremony (injection with not-quite-poisons in an elaborate pseudo-medical setting) also symbolizes something about modern usa, re: national character.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4200 @ 0.00029193 = 1.2261 BTC [-]
decimation: re: electric chair < my understanding is that it was mainly a marketing gimmick for electricity
nubbins`: i once saw thomas edison electrocute an elephant
decimation: asciilifeform: note that keeping the execution behind closed doors greatly diminishes its intended effect to encourage the others
decimation: asciilifeform: my hypothesis re: hidden execution in the US was that those who wanted to end all executions encouraged it so that they could then argue that it doesn't have a 'discouragement' effect on crime
decimation: just like the same ones burden the death penalty with layers of bureaucracy and then claim that it's too unwieldy to use
mircea_popescu: <decimation> no if you read the article, the 'startup' is actually a division of tucows, the domainame freeware site << you know twocows i actually like.
mircea_popescu: and obviously, the usg doesn't like it. how surprising.
decimation has fond memories of downloading warez from tucows back in the day
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 95950 @ 0.00028191 = 27.0493 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: <asciilifeform> idea is that they 'have the choice to surrender to usg' and didn't make it << myeah. they gotta be supported.
mircea_popescu: generally, any friend of the usg is an enemy of the world.
decimation: asciilifeform: did you get those little paper catalogs of shareware which you could order on diskettes?
mircea_popescu comes from a country where "warez" has no particular meaning. you mean software, right ?
decimation: yes, with the meaning shaded with the implication that the software is unlicensed
decimation: although in this case it was shareware generally
decimation: forward to 2:57ff to see the old dude scold some chick about 'war crimes'
mircea_popescu: in mass' defense, it's really merely providing a very in demand service
mircea_popescu: 1 in 2 households are looking for something to beg and someplace to do it.
mircea_popescu: "And those workers are different from the ones who decide whether or not to give out a free"
mircea_popescu: people object to slave hard drives being called slave hard drives, in spite of the accuracy
mircea_popescu: you, if your paycheck comes from the governent, YOU ARE NOT A WORKER.
mircea_popescu: work is when you do something useful. you're a fricitoner not a fucking worker.
decimation: well, that net catches a good portion of the us when considered in its wide sense
mircea_popescu: i'da made the comment there, but apparently greenspun doesn't know how to comments.
mircea_popescu: in your classical "ancient tribe in the caves" about 2/3 of the tribe did something.
decimation: well, it excludes the quite legitimate work of raising children
mircea_popescu: what's different is a bunch of ideological spew clouding the issues.
mircea_popescu: decimation other than the genetics of intelligence, the children is another way i get conservatives enraged.
mircea_popescu: as far as i'm concerned, giving a mother a year off at childbirth is perfectly reasonable.
mircea_popescu: people go nuts. as if babies are required to come from the stork, and for free, because htey're wrapped up too tightly to consider fucking.
decimation: well, there is the question of 'who pays'
decimation: but it certainly seems like society ought to consider paying for young families over old codgers
mircea_popescu: decimation imo the most defensible expense in the state budget.
mircea_popescu: i dun think there's anything that can be done in a whole decade of "education" that's as valuable as kid having mother at home first year.
decimation: there is something weird about the us, in that the grandparents often think that their responisibilities end after seeing the children off to college
decimation: instead of endowing the next generation
mircea_popescu: decimation generally ro families reproduce once grandparents go to pension.
mircea_popescu: EXACTLY the same thing, except state doesn't pay for mother's year off, pays for gramma's years off.
decimation: well, paying for young families has the further advantage of being a limited-time affair
mircea_popescu: it's just, children are a cost everyone seems to wish to externalize.
decimation: a few generations ago it was considered everyone's job (in the family tree) to assist with the young children
mircea_popescu: amusingly, the revolutionary french actually put it in the code that pregnant women may steal food off market displays.
mircea_popescu: but, in turkey, at the height of the syrian refugee crisis, i numerously observed various people selling food gifting items to pregnant syrian women.
decimation: there is some of that in the us, in a fossilized way. sometimes pregnant women are given priority for parking, for instance
mircea_popescu: (put the husbands in the most visibly awkward position too - once that hand to chest gesture's done they can't refuse, but on the other hand... their wife's sexuality was just referenced by these half-satan pigdogs. was pretty lulzy to observe)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 57350 @ 0.00028252 = 16.2025 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: which doth mean that even across religious conflict, the pregnant woman trumps the imam. imagine that!
decimation: heh. no one can shrug off their own humanity
mircea_popescu: There are no limits to male hypocrisy in this matter. No doubt there are moments when man’s sexual immunities are made acutely humiliating to him. When the terrible moment of birth arrives, its supreme importance and its superhuman effort and peril, in which the father has no part, dwarf him into the meanest insignificance: he slinks out of the way of the humblest petticoat, happy if he be poor enough to be pushed o
mircea_popescu: ut of the house to outface his ignominy by drunken rejoicings. But when the crisis is over he takes his revenge, swaggering as the breadwinner, and speaking of Woman’s “sphere” with condescension, even with chivalry, as if the kitchen and the nursery were less important than the office in the city. When his swagger is exhausted he drivels into erotic poetry or sentimental uxoriousness; and the Tennysonian King Ar
mircea_popescu: thur posing at Guinevere becomes Don Quixote grovelling before Dulcinea. You must admit that here Nature beats Comedy out of the field: the wildest hominist or feminist farce is insipid after the most commonplace “slice of life.”
mircea_popescu: the us equivalent, of course, being mammie to rhett butler : "theis ain't a man's job, buzz off."
decimation: there was a time when the husband could appropriately wait outside to receive the new little one after the moment came
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 23:15:14; jurov: lol "we don't know what is a consciousness? let's say it is composed of many of itself"
mircea_popescu: jurov you ever considered doing stand-up comedy ? something in the stewart vein mebbe ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9550 @ 0.0002912 = 2.781 BTC [+]
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 23:46:09; asciilifeform: the answer to 'is the copy you' is 'shutthefuckup you're asking a broken question'
mircea_popescu: but that aside : you will note that if i make a bitwise copy of a running system on anothjer system, eiteher will continue independently. if i then set the second on fire, the first is unharmed. whether the 2nd "Thinks" that "it" = "the first" is harmed oir not is irrelevant.
mircea_popescu: that's the animism here, the naive proposition that harm upon the wax statuette will visit the subject.
mircea_popescu: to me the lulz comes from the similarity with idiocy, in spite of all the pretense.
mircea_popescu: the same sort of thing as "well... french nobles had lice. just like the peasants. and died of tb"
mircea_popescu: "so then what is this nobility again ?" "oh, their blood was a differentcolor." "ic."
mircea_popescu: "rationalists" indistinguishable from flatearthists, except, perhaps, by the color of their guts ? sign me up.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4531 @ 0.00028047 = 1.2708 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 23:51:31; Adlai: well, you do become 'less yourself', until there's nothing left... although it's a more complex process than just cells dying
mircea_popescu: you become more like your "true self", which just happens to be dead.
mircea_popescu: no one would dispute the true lenin is in the transhumanist facility at dark pink plaza right ?
nubbins`: <+mircea_popescu> you become more like your "true self", which just happens to be dead. <<< oh ho ho ho, i like this
nubbins`: what an anomaly to be wiggling about!!
nubbins`: christ, can't wait for it to stop
mircea_popescu: that's why you get sleep paralysis. but it doesn'ty hold.
decimation: re: genetics of intelligence < the post makes a good point, in that there's nobody who can tell a story about how some genes 'cause' intelligence. But that doesn't really address the observation that when you give a test to ethnic groups A&B, the resulting distributions are different.
mircea_popescu: (there's this entire subculture of [mostly white] men that aim to raise other peopel's children)
mircea_popescu: the behaviour is not so much different from whatever, altruism. speech. etc.
mircea_popescu: tho by now that's migrated closer to a personal relationship.
mircea_popescu: at any rate : expecting human behaviour to be addressed by genetics is a little like expecting food to be discussed by chemistry.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: some attempts will be made, but srsly... whadda ya want. shit's hard and chemistry has other stuff to do.
mircea_popescu: that's the thing : any attempt to explain behaviour by genetics ends up bending the notion of "explain" the fuck out of place
mircea_popescu: but wouldn't you agree that had the apples made him gay, THAT would be the most interesting thing about them ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52250 @ 0.00028943 = 15.1227 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: i developed an allergy to apple skins
nubbins`: didn't they retroactively expunge turing's homosexuality conviction within the past couple years
mircea_popescu: once copulation explained pregnancy, that was it , you know ?
nubbins`: took me til age 24 before it was explained that 1+1=2
nubbins`: covered sections in various number theory courses
decimation: mircea_popescu: "pregnancy comes from copulation" is a fairly workable theory
nubbins`: worst rabbit hole re:math was one winter eve i found myself thoroughly intoxicated at a party i'd wandered across
nubbins`: turned out to be the 60th bday of this philosophy prof at local uni
nubbins`: left the house ~4 hours later w/ several tomes on the philosophy of mathematics
mircea_popescu: decimation quite a ways ahead of any genetic explanations for intelligence on tap
mircea_popescu: leaving aside the differential of quality between the definitions of pregnant and intelligent.
nubbins`: anyway, principia, smth like ~100 pages into volume ii before they finish the proof?!
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but the genetic explanation of stupidity is certainly not in dispute here.
mircea_popescu: what, down sindrome ? that's uncontroversial as it gets.
mircea_popescu: note that my observation about where the gaussian's bound is not idle.
nubbins`: i feel shiftlessness is much more a product of upbringing
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform anyway, re twin studies : they're great because best we got
mircea_popescu: but that is an argument to sink a competing theory with,
decimation: of course not, but the skeptic is still informed
mircea_popescu: yeah, skepticism will never sink, and if it does, brainbox' flooded.
mircea_popescu: anyway, back to the issue : a plethora of persuasive arguments can be made starting with genetics and ending with behaviours. however, the most commonly encountered ones are neither persuasive
mircea_popescu: and in particular the race -> intelligence one has, in my experience so far, about a thousand times more often worked to illuminate the idiocy of the proponent than say anything about its intended topic.
mircea_popescu: (and yes intelligence is, by and large, a human behaviour. it's not a fucking identity.)
mircea_popescu: same difference as between being a doctor and practicing medicine.
mircea_popescu: but to belabour the point : one of the principal reasons "measuring iq" as it were height is so ridiculous, is because nobody has yet had an off day for height.
☟︎ nubbins`: all i'm arguing is that stupid people have kids, and their kids are given stupid food and provided with stupid stimulation and forced to interact mostly with their stupid parents and their stupid friends
mircea_popescu: im normally 6"2 but i woke with a headache and im only 4"10
decimation: whatever the causality between 'genes' and 'intelligence' might be, the story is shrouded under layers of ignorance, and it is thus good to be humble on the subject
nubbins`: if you think genetic predisposition plays a bigger part than whether you're surrounded by idiocy in your formative years, well...
mircea_popescu: nubbins` that won't fucking do anything. ANYTHING. you are to be traced to lucy, the stupidest chimp that ever lived.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform but strength, you wiull notice, is VERY capped at the top.
mircea_popescu: we don't see that many people carrying skyscrapers around.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16838 @ 0.0002912 = 4.9032 BTC [+]
decimation: nubbins`: folks who have looked into the matter tend to disagree
nubbins`: decimation your logic has no place here
mircea_popescu: iirc i said then, i mostly measure intelligence in person by derived units, such as reaction speeds.
assbot: Intelligence, Personality and Genius: The decline in general intelligence estimated from a meta-analysis of the slowing of simple reaction time ... (
http://bit.ly/1Bfx5Hq )
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 23:54:02; nubbins`: there's a large chunk of the book that could be misidentified as schizo by the unqualified observer
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 23:54:55; asciilifeform: and then mircea_popescu walks in with a '45 and asks which one to shoot
mircea_popescu: chick falls in love with geek, he takes her home and tells her to fuck any toy in the lab except this one,
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform on my own guesswork it's a present but minor factor.
mircea_popescu: think about women, your head thinks about women much easier/better. general fitness factor : big tits, tall, clear eyes, wide hips, etc etc.
decimation: the intelligent one survived long enough to be presented
mircea_popescu: in some circumstances lack of intelligence is a distinctive fitting advantage.
mircea_popescu: if survival depends on, say, spending a week in a fox hole paying the fuck attention, "intelligence", especially the dreamy "creative" sort the us is so enamoured with, is the topmost liability.
mircea_popescu: actually i watched mosquitoes bite, and the head movement really resembles a tank tower.
decimation: unless you dream up a robot ninja to fight on your behalf
mircea_popescu: plenty of good examples, no argument they move faster.
mircea_popescu: ok. "sort of wankery they abusively call intelligence, cause they're dumb and ambitious" ?
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 00:01:13; asciilifeform: re: teleporter: there were actually people who refused to travel on steam locomotives because the soul can't keep up and will get lost
mircea_popescu: i'd read a technopunk sf novel working on this exact premise.
mircea_popescu: "and then everything failed because well... everyone was in a bureaucracy, because the souls were like loist behind"
mircea_popescu: if i were 20 years younger i'd take the sluts to whatever cons on this premise.
mircea_popescu: we'd be a new sort of furry : the soulless! better than emo!
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 00:04:40; Adlai: probably to prevent physical contact with female flight attendants
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 00:04:53; jurov: i'd fuck myself. we'd only have to resort to reading /dev/random about who goes first.
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 00:07:42; nubbins`: examine the utter failure of logic by this man
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3662 @ 0.0002912 = 1.0664 BTC [+]
nubbins`: mircea_popescu guy's protecting himself from the cemetery he's flying over
nubbins`: by... wrapping himself in clear plastic
nubbins`: it might as well be "i can fly over a cemetery as long as i'm playing tetris on a nintendo game boy"
nubbins`: seems taking once-practical advice to the point of absurdity
mircea_popescu: nubbins` to begin, is your position that this doesn't work or that this doesn't make sense ?
nubbins`: my position is that wtf is a plastic bag doing that the fuselage isn't
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 61993 @ 0.00029437 = 18.2489 BTC [+] {3}
mats: reminds me a bit about goodspeed's zigbee hax
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform actually that was the lulz of all time, "malware detectors". except they didn't detect stuff half-register shifted did they.
assbot: ISTANBUL: Operation to retake Tikrit from Islamic State stalled by heavy casualties, discord | Iraq | McClatchy DC ... (
http://bit.ly/1HcZXoe )
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44150 @ 0.00029637 = 13.0847 BTC [+] {2}
mats: looks like a Carl Gustav
assbot: Fighting Isis in Iraq: How British soldiers and other European troops are helping train the Peshmerga - Middle East - World - The Independent ... (
http://bit.ly/1Hd15rQ )
mats: a sign of sleep deprivation. night
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 28350 @ 0.00029411 = 8.338 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: more interesting is, why did he get away with it for long enough to become a prolbem
mircea_popescu: i guess i wouldn't make a very palatable politburo member.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12215 @ 0.00029808 = 3.641 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51876 @ 0.00029198 = 15.1468 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21900 @ 0.00029398 = 6.4382 BTC [+]
cazalla: mircea_popescu: im thinking cazalla bingoboingo thestringpuller danielpbarron right off the bat, cazalla lemme know who else should go in the magic dozen. <<< pete_dushenski, PeterL might be interested, personally i think while nubbins` would do a great job, it's something i would look at once, put in cupboard and forget about
☟︎ ben_vulpes: mats: that chip whisperer is going to hurt some butts.
ben_vulpes: <nubbins`> silkscreened business cards are ++ << lmk when you pony up for dies and presses
ben_vulpes: <trinque> jurov: had the thought once in meditation that I was always... hm... thinking everything I've ever experienced all the time << i've not read it but this was the proust routine, yeah?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51035 @ 0.00028483 = 14.5363 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 19900 @ 0.00028072 = 5.5863 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15200 @ 0.00028072 = 4.2669 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10565 @ 0.00028072 = 2.9658 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12000 @ 0.00029398 = 3.5278 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13550 @ 0.00029398 = 3.9834 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 72871 @ 0.00029554 = 21.5363 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37200 @ 0.00029213 = 10.8672 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: and the vid, too, looks like punishment for mircea's slavegirl :D
jurov: and wtf it needs $/@/euro/pound symbols?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 37800 @ 0.0002909 = 10.996 BTC [-]
RagnarDanneskjol: trinque - i am occasionally using the nick for continued development on punks ver. if anyone here's partial to the name I can pass it over. Wow that xm42
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12434 @ 0.00028939 = 3.5983 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 36066 @ 0.00028008 = 10.1014 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15500 @ 0.00027951 = 4.3324 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 52780 @ 0.00027943 = 14.7483 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 47200 @ 0.00028019 = 13.225 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 46330 @ 0.00027847 = 12.9015 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4300 @ 0.00027643 = 1.1886 BTC [-]
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for Yes on "Gold to drop under $1000 before August 2015"
http://bitbet.us/bet/1131/ Odds: 95(Y):5(N) by coin, 95(Y):5(N) by weight. Total bet: 1.1 BTC. Current weight: 99,999.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7548 @ 0.00027643 = 2.0865 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 21:10:47; felipelalli: mircea_popescu: Where can I find objective arguments against BTCJam? As a lending service and reputation system? And what are the alternatives for P2P lending or we don't have? They have 113,000 users, should they be ignored?
assbot: Logged on 18-03-2015 05:09:03; mircea_popescu: " Content preview: Dear Alare Kool, thank you for registering at Bitstamp exchange service! At this point you have just contributed a great deal to future of decentralized monetary market."
mircea_popescu: they have no users. just because the whatsapp scam was pushed by fb on the grounds of "users" (by the way, did the fantabulous "growth rate" continue after the acquisition ?) does not mean that the same sort of fraud will either work again in the future or is in itself any sort of value.
nubbins`: alare kool... from bangladesh?!!?
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 21:34:56; BingoBoingo: I have the most intense hangover
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 21:40:35; ascii_field: not one can do 'lay flat' cover, for instance
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 21:44:19; danielpbarron: basically anything ascii wants in book form, I would probably also want
nubbins`: incidentally, here's a layflat binding
nubbins`: as you can see, the biggest thing is to not adhere the spine of the book block
nubbins`: downside is that the book block is now much less securely held in place
nubbins`: one cm-thick strip of glue on each outer page
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 21:48:38; ascii_field: in the sense that a typical artisan binder would probably react to my laser suggestion the same way my musical friends react to the suggestion of connecting my air compressor to the tuba
nubbins`: "after a colleague introduced them to the anus compressor hose"
mircea_popescu: nubbins` 50 yo blue collar woman went after shift with coworkers, had compressed air hose stuck up ass.
Tetra113: i was spending alot of time reading about bitcoin shares/stocks
nubbins`: i wonder had she ever seen an air compressor in use before?
nubbins`: specifically, had she ever seen the release valve opened on a full one?
Tetra113: mircea_popescu, mostly sites that appear written by you lol
nubbins`: if so, why in the world did she think her ass was a good place for that to happen?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla i don't get it, is the french govt running an isp ?!
nubbins`: they're apparently running all of them 8)
mircea_popescu: nubbins` i dunno man, to me it's the crowning achievement of a particular sort of technopunk, which is what 50 years of soviet industry really is.
mircea_popescu: nubbins` you know just like who ? just like putin, except not the real one, the factitious version that "is holding country back" jurov was talking about.
kakobrekla: idk imma guess they just change the native dns and using an alternative one fixes this
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla used to work in china. for the first coupla years.
nubbins`: given that more people are familiar with changing DNS servers as a result of wanting to watch american netflix, you'll see the turnaround on these things get shorter
nubbins`: (you'd be amazed how many people who don't know what DNS stands for know what it does these days)
Tetra113: mircea_popescu, how does one get in on bitcoin company shares?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62700 @ 0.00027537 = 17.2657 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: you'd be amazed how many monkeys click the blue e, too.
nubbins`: soon it won't be blue or an e!
nubbins`: meantime, if anyone happens to have come across a guide to Smyth Sewing (re: bookbinding), would be forever in your debt
mircea_popescu: i wonder idly if anyone even realises that the turing machine space has by now been explored MUCH more in depth than the human genetic space, for instance.
nubbins`: remarkably hard to find solid info on
mircea_popescu: ie, we've built a much larger % of the computers that could be than there's been people alive as a % of the people that could be.
chetty: <Tetra113> mircea_popescu, how does one get in on bitcoin company shares?// bitcoin company???????????
mircea_popescu: "In fact, all the boring normal bugs are _way_ more important, just because
mircea_popescu: there's a lot more of them. I don't think some spectacular security hole
mircea_popescu: should be glorified or cared about as being any more "special" than a
nubbins`: on the surface, it looks like a plain kettle-stitch binding, with the addition of those stress strips
Tetra113: chetty, yes obviously there has to be some company generating the value??
mircea_popescu: the crash is only important if it can be used to poison the stack. otherwise... it's just annoying.
nubbins`: generally, one gets in on shares by buying them
assbot: Logged on 20-03-2015 22:02:49; danielpbarron: one of the best places to get like-new Bibles is a used book store
Tetra113: so nubbins` where did you buy them?
nubbins`: figure out your question in full before you start asking it, maybe
mircea_popescu: Tetra113 seriously, this isn't etrade in a different color scheme.
mircea_popescu: etrade only exists because that model's practically dead.
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 07:35:50; cazalla: mircea_popescu: im thinking cazalla bingoboingo thestringpuller danielpbarron right off the bat, cazalla lemme know who else should go in the magic dozen. <<< pete_dushenski, PeterL might be interested, personally i think while nubbins` would do a great job, it's something i would look at once, put in cupboard and forget about
danielpbarron: i was planning on handing them out at porcfest as i attempt to interview people
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34398 @ 0.00027468 = 9.4484 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: doesn't seem a terribly legit reason to stop withdrawals, who knows if they're piggybacking on it to excuse their own failure.
mircea_popescu: in any case this "we attack bitcoin fungibility and expect to remain in business" angle has to be dispelled.
mircea_popescu: no one ever will survive trying to make one bitcoin unequal to another bitcoin.
mircea_popescu: this is a capital offense. mass arson, rape and murder is a tea party by comparison.
nubbins`: i wonder will they halt withdrawals when draper's stolen SR bitcoins start moving to exchanges?
nubbins`: by my count, guy's got a hundred bucks belonging to me
nubbins`: actually, that'd be an interesting trace.
mircea_popescu: but this is exactly it, usg trying to insert itself into the process by "blessing bitcoins"
mircea_popescu: much like you know, "you can'tr fuck this woman until this old man has sprinkled water on her"
nubbins`: you can't be in charge until you fill out this paperwork!
mircea_popescu: "how about you fill in the paperwork while i keep on being in charge."
danielpbarron: Update: BTC-e admins have reached out to Coin Fire to state that withdrawals have been re-enabled and that they have no further comments regarding the situation moving forward regarding this or any other security issue.
mircea_popescu: it wouldn't necessartily be much more than editorializing, up to cazalla if he wants more of that or more news to balance things out.
danielpbarron: the story might be all the FEDs that swarm to reddit saying things like "see bitcoin isn't anonymous you better just use dollars!"
mircea_popescu: not every poltroonish german's a gestapo agent, not every poltroonish soviet's a kgb agent and not every reddit idjit's working for teh soup.
nubbins`: anyone happen to have any of the btc addresses used for the first sr auction?
mircea_popescu: going to 1Ez69SnzzmePmZX3WpEzMKTrcBF2gpNQ55, never spent.
mircea_popescu: sort-of like putting cockroaches in your pizza for easy publicity.
funkenstein_: so no bitcoin numismatics then? 2 BTC for my coin which was mined in 2010?
danielpbarron: how does that even work? you sell the private key?
nubbins`: i'm not sure that's the word you're looking for
danielpbarron: then you'd destroy all those coin-days which i thought was the thing you were trying to sell
nubbins`: funkenstein_ no better than fresh-minted coins?
funkenstein_: maybe you'd rather pay more for fresh minted coins, i hear some people prefer them
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 62900 @ 0.00027742 = 17.4497 BTC [+] {2}
funkenstein_: mircea_popescu, i thought it was interesting, but i guess not enough to finish it
mircea_popescu: there's some reasonable if banal shit floating around in a sea of very annoying nonsense. wtf is "out of whack" even supposed to mean, and since when is an ipad a better model of computing than a desktop.
funkenstein_: We're beginning to come to grips with the idea that your brain is not this well-organized hierarchical control system where everything is in order, a very dramatic vision of bureaucracy. <-- i liked that part
mircea_popescu: yes, obviously, people working on computational theories of human intelligence are basically correct and broadly irrelevant, yes people who were working on this 30 years ago are too stupiud to follow it, because hey, they didn't grow up with a computer, like i did, and yes culture consists of a lot of fleas and relatively little treasures.
mircea_popescu: and yes the brain's not a leviathan. nothing is. that only exists as a first line of fantasy, no place ever worked like that except in the bookish literotica of state-wankers.
nubbins`: yeah tim draper owes me at least a few bucks
mircea_popescu: about as sensible as the "paradise" of xtians, or ragnarok or w/e.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23200 @ 0.00027609 = 6.4053 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 22973 @ 0.0002759 = 6.3383 BTC [-] {2}
[]bot: Bet placed: 1 BTC for No on "Gold to drop under $1000 before August 2015"
http://bitbet.us/bet/1131/ Odds: 50(Y):50(N) by coin, 50(Y):50(N) by weight. Total bet: 2.1 BTC. Current weight: 99,907.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51450 @ 0.00027456 = 14.1261 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 27800 @ 0.00028 = 7.784 BTC [+] {3}
nubbins`: "This second pillar of Legion Theory might appear to be an unnecessary complication to our model. Dare we say, an “intellectual wank”. "
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell funkenstein_ could that thing stop being disqus
thestringpuller: lol slush adds css to site everyone is like "this is best site ever"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9458 @ 0.00028129 = 2.6604 BTC [+]
Adlai: dogecoin rallied after they added css3 moon rocket upvote animations
Adlai: the next difficulty adjustment is critical
danielpbarron: someone should tell the exit scammers about bitbit as an option for mixing
Adlai: how is that any good? if you know somebody's betting address, you can see their winnings on the site
mats: there are private bets
nubbins`: so 0.5.3.1 auto.sh will compile everything up to bitcoind itself
nubbins`: at which point incompatibilities in ld crop up and grind the thing to a halt
kakobrekla: private bets are public, just need a password to request a deposit address
kakobrekla: i dont recall if there ever was an approved one
mircea_popescu: <Adlai> how is that any good? if you know somebody's betting address, you can see their winnings on the site << not how that works.
mircea_popescu: not sure why we put it in, but i think it was the usual "customer request" stuff
Adlai: let's say i've identified a certain address A as coins that are "not welcome here". i see it move coin to address B, so i sniff around and notice that B is a deposit address on bitbet, with winnings going to C. i add C to the list of unwelcome money.
Adlai is equally amused from "lalala taint doesn't exist" and "lalala bitcoin doesn't exist"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12850 @ 0.00027392 = 3.5199 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: you really should read the logs, this was discussed ad nauseam.
mircea_popescu: address A with your "taint" may lose to address B. what now ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12850 @ 0.00027392 = 3.5199 BTC [-]
Adlai: then the idiot using a betting site as a tumbler, got what they deserved
mircea_popescu: it's not a matter of "lalala taint doesn't exit". taint exists exactly as much and exactly for the reasons god "exists"
mircea_popescu: Adlai didja eat dumb this morning ? i put 100 btc on one side, of your taint, and 100 btc on the other side, you don't know about. if one wins now you've gotta taint 2x as manby btc, if the other wins you lost track.
mircea_popescu: but really, the notion of taint is only recurring because people are stupid, and do not wish to think. otherwise, taint is meaningless.
Adlai: taint in as meaningful as the person you're trying to do business with thinks it is
Adlai: but whether or not it's meaningful to a specific incident, it still exists
mircea_popescu: yes, some idiots have trouble with reality, replace it with neurosis. this to the detriment of them and anyone trusting them.
mircea_popescu: like any other stereotype, like the nigger thief/rapist, the dumb woman, the jew cooking christian children etc, it "exists" in the minds of the stupid,
mircea_popescu: and it recurs because stupid is really a very narrow space.
Adlai: no. you're confusing between value in the minds of people holding a bill, and fingerprints on its surface. one exists in the mind, the other is evidence. it could be misleading evidence, but it is there.
mircea_popescu: in that fingerprints are on the bill, and taint is in the mind, wholly imagined.
Adlai: do we agree that utxos exist?
Adlai: ok, what i'm calling "taint" is the tree constructed by recursively collecting the inputs that led in to each utxo
Adlai: a better word for this could be "signing history", but whatever it is, it exists. you can ask what the history of any utxo is, and you get a graph of signatures
Adlai: blockchain.info pander to idiots by misrepresenting this as taint(address1,address2) = percentage
Adlai: it's much more complicated than a single number, same as you can't scalarize "trust" - but taint as i've defined it exists, in the blockchain - outside of the mind.
assbot: Logged on 19-03-2015 21:32:58; fluffypony: "release the money to mircea_popescu if I send the money to mircea_popescu" is about the sum total of it
Adlai: this has nothing to do with it
mircea_popescu: uniquely among dumb implementation of "smart contracts", this doesn't even involve the actual parties to the txn, but third parties.
assbot: Logged on 14-02-2015 18:06:59; mircea_popescu: lol kay.
mircea_popescu: the "signing history" is entirely meaningless. the TOTAL information it conveys is already conveyed, and spent. there is NO MORE in there, at all, nothing whatsoever.
Adlai: "i understand what you're saying and insist on attacking a strawman"
mircea_popescu: i understand what you are saying, and i also understand why it's stupid. you have the option to pretend like you don't see it, or not. nothing i can do thar.
nubbins`: perhaps i can explain this succinctly, as i had this same convo some time ago
assbot: BitBet - Bitcoin to surpass Berkshire as an investment :: 1121.15 B (20%) on Yes, 4393.47 B (80%) on No | closed 1 month 4 days ago ... (
http://bit.ly/1MYAYXH )
nubbins`: examine the first "no" bet, which won 0.05280995 btc
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10100 @ 0.0002726 = 2.7533 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: input address is 16u2vFY3w6j18KZ6WxtiJpGeZfXnyyK7NM
nubbins`: payout address is 1F3fzDm5yM5dsPmP9andV2UJgSvrsLHXXm
nubbins`: here's the link between the two:
assbot: BitBet - Bitcoin to surpass Berkshire as an investment :: 1121.15 B (20%) on Yes, 4393.47 B (80%) on No | closed 1 month 4 days ago ... (
http://bit.ly/1MYBhlj )
nubbins`: so now you're left with... some random betting website that says the two addresses are owned by the same entity, with no further evidence to back it up
nubbins`: i could just create a static copy of bitbet w/ a web crawler and create all the "links" i want
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9250 @ 0.00027237 = 2.5194 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: i very much doubt that after he ignored the "if one wins now you've gotta taint 2x as manby btc, if the other wins you lost track." bit he's in a position to grok this one, but hey.
nubbins`: there's nothing on the blockchain to link the two addresses
nubbins`: and if there's nothing on the blockchain to link them
nubbins`: then you're just trusting the word of some guy who runs a website.
Adlai: there are a bunch of different concepts which are getting wrapped up together as "taint" so let's stop using that word, it's about as helpful as "jew"
mircea_popescu: (pls do not lalala-ignore my celestial teapot, it triggers me)
nubbins`: so let's go back to unwelcome money
nubbins`: why is 1F3fzDm5yM5dsPmP9andV2UJgSvrsLHXXm unwelcome money? because it's listed as an output address on
http://bitbet.us? trinque: RagnarDanneskjol | trinque - i am occasionally using the nick for continued development on punks ver. << no problemo; deedbot- works for me
mircea_popescu: fucking hell, "unwelcome money" is about as self-consistent as "human dignity" or "representative democracy"
Adlai: the "this is just text on a betting website" doesn't get the 'electric anthill' any further from your anus
Adlai: the "..." *defense
Adlai: ie, the information is there, should somebody wish to act on it
nubbins`: so then why don't we just ask mp to create a dummy bet page, and list tim draper's stash as the output?
mircea_popescu: Adlai are you discussing rule of law or rule of thugs ?
Adlai: not if he doesn't touch the winnings
nubbins`: now you're talking about electric anthills
mircea_popescu: cause i am really not interested in persuading thugs of anything through any method other than clubbing to death.
Adlai: electric anthill = rule of thugs
nubbins`: show me where the "winnings" were transferred
mircea_popescu: obviously whatever random thug is going to make randomly unsubstantiated claims and pretend like they hold water. so what of it ?
nubbins`: all i see is some random coin moving around
Adlai: if you know that an enemy is profiling you, one approach is simply to evade the profile
nubbins`: Adlai a random website taking two random unlinked transactions and placing them side-by-side on a random page does not constitute even the /scent/ of proof
mircea_popescu: Adlai never interrupt the enemy while he's making a mistake.
nubbins`: i don't know how simpler to put it
mircea_popescu: i guess it's "good for the economy". heck, they're tracking "uniques", for all the good that did anyone. we still have to see the extra ounce of soap or w/e that was sold because of it, but hey.
nubbins`: this is like pasting up a leaflet that says "main street intersects 3rd avenue" and then arguing that's the intersection you lost your wallet, even though the map says impossible
nubbins`: because main and 3rd run parallel
Adlai: one approach to combating terrorism is to refuse to be terrorized, on a societal level. another, on an individual level, is not to "ask for it". these are not mutually exclusive.
nubbins`: "but the leaflet says this intersection exists, so we must investigate the crime"
nubbins`: geez, where'd the counter-argument go
mircea_popescu: what you're describing is the exact avenue to encourage terrorism.
trinque: look at how she was dressed; the slut was asking for it -> niqab
nubbins`: is the intersection of these two approaches to STFU and take whatever happens?
nubbins`: do you measure your other-cheek-turning in x1000 rpm or what?
Adlai: in the case of 'taint', it's: treat bitcoin as fungible, but don't make life easier for those who don't
nubbins`: <+Adlai> there are a bunch of different concepts which are getting wrapped up together as "taint" so let's stop using that word, it's about as helpful as "jew"
nubbins`: protip: if you can't state your position...
Adlai used that word intentionally
mircea_popescu: im pretty sure no-ones making life easier for idiots, here.
nubbins`: my being here is probably making life harder for at least a handful of people
mircea_popescu: hence the bitbet model, hence the reusing of addresses etc etc, numerous specific measures to hinder the little solace idiots a la power rangers etc are trying to give the "defungibilize bitcoin" party.
mircea_popescu: not that any of these are critical, but yes, some hopes are fun to ruin.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 80218 @ 0.00027598 = 22.1386 BTC [+] {2}
nubbins`: occasionally i burn fun-sized blocks of btc just to make things a bit more tangly
nubbins`: then i guess you better not use bit(bet/coin)
danielpbarron: how would i go about compiling your bitcoind for macppc?
mod6: <+nubbins`> so 0.5.3.1 auto.sh will compile everything up to bitcoind itself << ah! ok. log/breadcrumbs help here : log output with uname -a and other important info is good to capture for a solid bug report.
mod6: thanks for testing nubbins`
mod6: danielpbarron: hmm. well, first, you'd have to get the libs to build for the correct arch. does mac still use ppc? thought it was x86? but either way, you get the libs built, and then there might be some tweaks that can be done to get the makefile into shape for osx or w/e.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 33835 @ 0.00027237 = 9.2156 BTC [-]
mod6: well, we'd have to spend some time just making sure we have the correct configure/compile flags set for openssl/bdb/boost and then create a patch or derivative of auto.sh for ppc-mac
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 53478 @ 0.00027683 = 14.8043 BTC [+] {2}
mod6: then a makefile.osx would have to be modified and re-added to the package once working.
mod6: im probably least clue'd on the mac side. if I had an environment to play on for a while, i could probably get it to work.
mod6: but others might have faster/better-luck/more knowledge on that than ole mod6
danielpbarron: OpenBSD still supports this for the purpose of finding bugs that would otherwise go unnoticed on modern speedy systems
mod6: eh, i'm not sure on VAX either. i've never used it. it doesn't look like boost supports it.
mod6: but maybe someday we can get builds/patches created to build/configure for these seperate arch's. who knows.
assbot: Absolute OpenBSD, 2nd Edition: UNIX for the Practical Paranoid - Michael W. Lucas - Google Boeken ... (
http://bit.ly/1BFRIwk )
mod6: yeah. ok. so supporting stuff like VAX/Amiga/SGI/Sparc etc are going to take time and resources ... maybe someday we get there, who knows. but first we just wanna get it working for like x86 obsd, and other Tier1 platforms first.
mod6: heck, i'd love to get an R.I. running on an UltraSPARC II box or something.
mod6: it's just not time well spent for me atm since no one even has that stuff any more. :]
danielpbarron: yeah obviously get it working on whatever most people use these days
mod6: i saw thay you're getting close to 300k blocks on pogo, that's great work. keep it up!
danielpbarron: and if you liked that paragraph i quoted there, it's from "Absolute OpenBSD" by Michael W. Lucas
mod6: i feel like the pogo is hugely important for getting a large amount of nodes out there with 0.5.3.1, that's really exciting.
mod6: i've gotta get one going here myself.
mod6: yeah I read the two paragraphs there "portability" and "power".
danielpbarron: apparently you can read the book on google? idk how that works
mod6: it seems like a decent read. i feel like i my have read that book like a million-internet years ago.
mod6: im old-school. i like real books.
mod6: but yeah, i've certainly seen it in stores.
danielpbarron: maybe it's because that particular section is part of the pre-page numbers section
mod6: yeah, i saw that. usually on-line, you get a certain amount of sections to preview.
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform there's no relation between addresses and identities.
mod6: huh, weird, this one looks like you can read a lot of it...
mircea_popescu: "The point is less about how vendors don't fix the problems, and more how the vendors' fixes are going un-applied by users, corporations, and governments." << orly. how about the point is all about how "vendors" create bugs.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16500 @ 0.00027237 = 4.4941 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "The LightEater attack would take an unskilled attacker such as a maid or border guard two minutes of physical access to a target laptop."
assbot: Logged on 13-06-2014 02:34:16; mircea_popescu: anyway, the fact that bitcoin is not actually traceable, and all the sophistry of taint can at most produce persuasion is one of the largest points of pressure applied by bitcoin to human society. it may result in the "reasonable doubt" standard being taken out.
assbot: Logged on 31-01-2014 16:43:16; mircea_popescu: since you can by design make zero-delta bets, and since the fee is 1%... bitbet is partly the reason why mixer services sort-of died last year, i'd guess.
danielpbarron: Retarded pieces like what Matonis is retweeting of late (shame on you man, seriously) are powerless in this matter, << links to trilema instead of twitter
assbot: Logged on 20-02-2014 19:47:58; mircea_popescu: why "you" ?
danielpbarron: or if such-and-such a bet was from whatever exit scam ?
danielpbarron: or uh.. USG guy joins IRC and identifies himself as such
assbot: Logged on 25-04-2014 17:49:10; mircea_popescu: "After scoring a major grant awarded by the Bitcoin Foundation, Coinpunk’s beta version is finally available. The project, which is being developed by the veteran startup founder Kyle Drake, intends to build the first fully open-source, self-hosted do-it-yourself Bitcoin wallet service that you can run on your own server."
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: thank you for the answers and the link. I'll have a look on it before comment again.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40600 @ 0.00027624 = 11.2153 BTC [+]
nubbins`: i'll probably get a makefile.osx done up at some point
nubbins`: in order for it to compile all the deps, there's only a couple trivial changes to make
nubbins`: s/sha256sum/shasum -a 256/ etc
nubbins`: s/MSG_NOSIGNAL/SO_NOSIGPIPE/ in irc.cpp and net.cpp
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: just one question mark: do you call fraud what does not have the "min. quality expected for that service" or something else?
nubbins`: mod6 the rest of the issues seem to be differences between bsd/osx 'ld' and linux 'ld'
mircea_popescu: felipelalli there's a difference between making cars as in, making a trabant, making cars as in, making a cardboard cut-out of a car, and making cars as in, making ford pintos, which explode killing their passengers.
nubbins`: mostly surrounding the static-build part of it, fwiw
mircea_popescu: the main problem in commerce is that the most dangerous of these is the last, and the most readily identified by the consumer is the first.
mircea_popescu: so you know, "it seems to be working" is a very bad heuristic for stuff like this.
mircea_popescu: the fact that it's not intuitively obvious is not accidental, but part of the problem.
mircea_popescu: the only similar situation i can imagine is self medication in medicine, where person goes to pharmacy swallows random pill for random ailment.
mircea_popescu: it "seems to be working" because placebo effect, a sugar pill "seems to be working", and then six months later guy with tb is dead of iodine poisoning or w/e.
felipelalli: but sometimes is hard to point objectivally where is the "bomb" inside the car. Sometimes we have just some clues. And they'll know only after explode.
felipelalli: you can say "this box seems weird" (like violated e.g.) but you'll only know after die.
felipelalli: and I didn't find anything very objective, but I guess you're trying to find clues that points something is weird. But after using the system, you can understand for example how joke is they reputation system.
felipelalli: mircea_popescu: a P2P lending system totally based on OTC WoT system would you consider a fraud as well or it could be something good?
felipelalli: I mean, rabbit out of this hat or not? This type of service is lost case?
thestringpuller: felipelalli: the scam is that reputation is built nominally on btcjam vs. WoT
vorandrew: thanks... the problem with p2p lending - it one sided market
vorandrew: for example.. I wan to get loan... I want to get $95 and repay $100 in 2 months
vorandrew: If somebody can bet money that I will not pay it back - it will be incentive
vorandrew: for example bid/ask for Mr.X loan is .89-0.93
vorandrew: means he wants to sell his debt for 93 cents a dollar
vorandrew: and somebody wants to buy his debt for 89 cents a dollar
vorandrew: let's say I'm sure he is not going to repay
vorandrew: If I have opportunity to put aside with escrow 1 dollar and sell his debt for 89 cents
vorandrew: I will be risking 11 cents if he is gonna repay
vorandrew: and 89 cents in profit in case he is in default
vorandrew: so this BTCJAM (or any other one way market)
vorandrew: you repay all year just to get max rating
vorandrew: and boom! - just default on 660K BTC :)
vorandrew: now imagine - 1 day before debt expiration - prices should be near 0.99
vorandrew: risking 1 cent in order to get 99 - not to shabby risk/reward ratio
mod6: <+nubbins`> mod6 the rest of the issues seem to be differences between bsd/osx 'ld' and linux 'ld' << ah ok, yeah.
gribble: Error: "price" is not a valid command.
nubbins`: admittedly not sure if related ^
gribble: The bot responds when you start a line with the ! character. A good starting point for exploring the bot is the !facts command. You can also visit the bot's website for a list of help topics and documentation:
http://gribble.sourceforge.net/ nubbins`: we don't, i've got a passing interest
nubbins`: at least they point you in the direction of what to do should you choose to ignore dad advice
nubbins` idly wonders what sort of install base Darwin has
nubbins`: i know there is/was an "opendarwin" project
nubbins`: anyway, homebrew lets me install sane gcc, but apparently sane ld is off-limits?
nubbins`: in theory there'd be conflicts with the idiot gcc
nubbins`: so brew installs things in a specific location
nubbins`: then i go rename the originals and ln -s
nubbins`: ld64: OS X Snow Leopard or older is required.
nubbins`: brew install ld64 pulls down the following file:
danielpbarron: ftr I do not intend to acutally use apple software; i've been putting OpenBSD on old iMacs
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20591 @ 0.0002754 = 5.6708 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: that's what i'm trying to do, yes
nubbins`: not that i'm going to be running a node on this machine
danielpbarron: i plan on using nothing but OpenBSD whereever possible :p
nubbins`: just killing a saturday seeing how much work is involved
danielpbarron: although still using gentoo on this laptop and debian on my irc server and ArchLinux on the pogo node
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 40761 @ 0.00027223 = 11.0964 BTC [-] {2}
danielpbarron: they are selling the things at like 80% off because they think people will pay them 5 USD a month for cloud services
nubbins`: reasons that include dumping the hardware below cost? ;p
nubbins`: danielpbarron i'm still not sure how much is mfg subsidy and how much is dumping eol product
nubbins`: the msrp on the things is like $99.
ben_vulpes: <asciilifeform> [19:50] is anyone actually trying to build on apple's os ? << no
mircea_popescu: the reason you're not seeing "anything very objective" is because you don't know all sorts of things you don't know, and so they don't trigger for you. for instance : in a village where there's no bank, someone offering loans is one thing. in a town where banks exists and works, someone offering "loans" is called a loanshark.
ben_vulpes: but macos is marginal, and not at all a thing that i'm interested in hosting bitcoind on.
mircea_popescu: ie, macos too stupid to run software ? or, not enough people actually running it to bother with ? or what ?
trinque: situation will likely involve installing some mess like brew
nubbins` did install some mess like brew
assbot: Logged on 26-10-2014 03:33:41; decimation: osx looks good from the outside, but when you walk into the engine room you find chairs glued to the ceiling and rotating clown cars
nubbins`: fwiw brew is *just* a package manager ;p
trinque: nubbins`: I recall several instances of having done *dunno what* to fuck up my brew/macports/fink install
ben_vulpes: well a) marginal in that if you can hack an os x box, you are able to hack a linux or bsd box, and why prefer the consumer os to something designed for use by professionals
nubbins`: trinque my understanding is that installing brew and macports is a recipe for disaster
ben_vulpes: b) it is the product of the devil, with all sorts of odd shit going on under the hood
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 30800 @ 0.00028006 = 8.6258 BTC [+] {3}
ben_vulpes: i'd like to build out a workstation this year.
jurov: 36 quotes waiting for bash... looks like rs work, guess i'll start asking for donations :D
ben_vulpes: i honestly don't even know how to build a workstation.
thestringpuller: asciilifeform: cannot tolerate errors in memory for any reason, whatsoever.
jurov: can't one just use some server mobo?
jurov is uninformed grunt with athlonII 630 fourcore with no upgrade plans and sadly no ecc
trinque: asciilifeform: do you find AMD more trustworthy or is it a technical preference?
trinque: yep knew they're american, hence curiosity
trinque: heh sorry to constantly remind you of this fact with my questions.
trinque: I am still curious why davout uses win 3.1 to do his encryption
trinque: yeah, saw that feature on this lenovo
nubbins`: ;;google hear my train a-comin'
cazalla: plus the mods for btc-e chat are well known for trolling so who really knows
jurov: no, just could not believe there is nothing avail
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 44350 @ 0.00027708 = 12.2885 BTC [-]
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 19:21:00; vorandrew: and boom! - just default on 660K BTC :)
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform: i'll build for apple shortly after i build for 'super nintendo' << ahahaha. nintendo!
jurov: it hits unbuffered harder?
assbot: Logged on 21-03-2015 19:54:27; nubbins`: the msrp on the things is like $99.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21600 @ 0.00028206 = 6.0925 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: Unbuffered versus Registered ECC Memory - Difference between ECC UDIMMs and RDIMMsServeTheHome – Server and Workstation Reviews ... (
http://bit.ly/1DITN1u )
jurov: good. so we now know alf needs 100+G of RAM
trinque wonders what relevance running from ramdisks might have to the situation involving hd firmware
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 26718 @ 0.00028261 = 7.5508 BTC [+]
trinque: asciilifeform: boot from cd, decompress an image into ram?
trinque: not that it avoids any other diddled components
trinque: also where do you make your "clean" CD
nubbins`: my first cdrw drive required a firmware update
nubbins`: well, "required". too long ago to remember what it did
nubbins`: ostensibly it's there for later when they discover bugs in their code
nubbins`: those drives, you prolly can't reflash the fw 8)
trinque: asciilifeform: "ship it!" (tm)
nubbins`: they shoulda made it reflashable!
nubbins`: ^ homemade kimchi on the menu tonite
nubbins`: been fermenting on the counter for 6 days
nubbins`: just fried up a test piece; wept
nubbins`: asciilifeform some synths i have can be reflashed modem-style via audio jack
nubbins`: update is released as wav file
nubbins`: anyone have a suggestion as to where i start figuring out *which* file/directory it can't find?
nubbins`: everything in prior stmt appears to be present
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12200 @ 0.00028483 = 3.4749 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45530 @ 0.00028152 = 12.8176 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 25800 @ 0.00027616 = 7.1249 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18600 @ 0.00027211 = 5.0612 BTC [-] {2}
nubbins`: jurov good idea, nothing useful tho
decimation: asciilifeform: I tried to compile an 'open source' app using the osx devel tool once
decimation: the developer in question had already made a deal with apple to publish the app apparently. I couldn't even compile my own version unsigned for my own personal use
☟︎ decimation: Xcode insisted that I required a paid apple developer account before I could consider such a thing, it appears
decimation: now, perhaps I was just unaware of the proper method of 'unsigning' someone else's code, but it wasn't an obvious feature if it existed
nubbins`: is this a mac app or an ios app?
trinque: or at least years ago when I did this
nubbins`: ah, haven't ever used xcode for this
trinque: you have to set your ios device up as one of your dev devices
nubbins`: as you can imagine, ios apps are under almost total lockdown
trinque: whether this much fuckery should be involved aside, it can be done
nubbins`: seems kinda weird that some random code won't compile tho.
trinque: you make your own self-signed cert then flip a setting that allows you to run such things
decimation: at any rate, it does appear that with each release of osx/xcode, apple subtlety changes what is 'allowed', without much explicit explanation
trinque: decimation: a friend of mine always says it's a matter of time before they remove the terminal entirely
decimation: apple could quite easily lock down osx just as hard as it locks down ios
trinque: decimation: pretty far from their roots these days
nubbins`: decimation a couple releases ago (maybe 1-2), the default behaviour for applications downloaded by "unknown developers" requires you to right-click,open
nubbins`: fwiw it's fairly non-intrusive and can be disabled
decimation: right, but apple just wants you to know that it sees what you are doing there...
decimation: on the other hand, perhaps apple is just trying to 'enumerate goodness' in its 'forced wot'
☟︎ nubbins`: <+trinque> decimation: a friend of mine always says it's a matter of time before they remove the terminal entirely <<< a friend of mine says obummer is a reptilian
decimation: except apple doesn't really have a wot so much as it has a slave harem
trinque: nubbins`: heh, I tend to argue the contrary
nubbins`: like, remove Terminal.app from the default install, or remove the ability to run bash?
pete_dushenski: if apple has a slave harem, they win the award for 'dumbest slave harem'
decimation: pete_dushenski: well, they apparently can charge people for the privilege of signing up
trinque: nubbins`: remove the ability to interact with anything other than signed cocoa apps
trinque: sure, that was my reaction to the latest win10 signed boot bullshit
nubbins`: *i* won't buy it, but since when does the market cater to rational actors?
☟︎ decimation: as in maker of fancy trinkets for rich folk?
decimation: I recently heard an argument that apple's only recourse to 'grow' its revenue stream is to sell super-luxury goods
trinque: decimation: the apple watch gadget etc
pete_dushenski: decimation: new product offerings grow their pie just as well
decimation: the argument being that even if every 'middle class' person in the world purchased a new apple device they would still only be 'holding steady'
trinque: I admire the way the company got started; someone needs to do *that* again
trinque: because now they're the IBM
nubbins`: mildly surprised there's no market for os-free laptops of somewhat rugged construction
decimation: which explains the need to sell 10k watches, and cars, bespoke helicopters, etc
trinque: asciilifeform tells me there are no trustworthy components with which to re-do the garage build, and I don't doubt him
nubbins`: my next laptop will probably be a cheap desktop + chromebook
nubbins`: dell usually offers one or two linux laptops
nubbins`: hopelessly outdated and overpriced
nubbins`: otherwise, your choices are (a) give MS $25 or (b) fuck off
decimation: my recommendation is you purchase a laptop on the 'coreboot' list & flash your own bios
trinque: I've seen a system76 in person, seemed like a piece of shit
nubbins`: i honestly abhor the idea of a plastic laptop
trinque: pete_dushenski: I'm on a lenovo turd currently, do not recommend
nubbins`: haha, i actually have a laptop w/ coreboot: OLPC XO-1.
trinque: my cellphone gets too close to this machine and the display starts flickering, disk remounts read-only
decimation: if you want 'cheap, don't care', you could buy a chromebook and reflash
nubbins`: my criteria are (a) not plastic body (b) no money given to MS
pete_dushenski: several ways to skin cat, hard to argue that any involve apple
decimation: well, the 'plastic body' fails almost everything
nubbins`: mbp = soldered ram, glued battery
nubbins`: who knows how they were treated
decimation: yeah, you could buy an old g4 macbook pro
nubbins`: maybe i'll just try stocking up on a full set of spare parts for this late-2008 macbook
pete_dushenski: maybe no easier, but that's not the point, the point is what's saner
nubbins`: this is actually the longest i've ever used the same laptop
pete_dushenski: but unless it's too slow for your needs, like decimation said, a new hdd or battery is all you'll likely need
nubbins`: got a new battery and upgraded to 8gb ram a couple months ago
nubbins`: breathed some new life into it
decimation: they might not have sata drives, you might need an ata ssd
decimation: the issue is that it might suck if you don't run osx
nubbins`: that's what my iphone said when i walked into best buy
PeterL: so I applied for grad school today
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24600 @ 0.00027425 = 6.7466 BTC [+]
PeterL: Central Mich chemistry
PeterL: it's the only place close enough to be commutable
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 42600 @ 0.0002721 = 11.5915 BTC [-] {2}
PeterL: asciilifeform:the same folks who were paying the parasites (i will not call them publishers, they withhold only - performing not a single one of the traditional functions of a publishing house save the physical printing) - will continue to pay. << what is this "physical printing"? everything is online now
PeterL: btw, I'm a couple days behind in the logs
decimation: PeterL: it doesn't matter that it's all online
decimation: in fact, it makes things worse, because they can positively identify to whom 'reading privileges' belong
PeterL: decimation: in fact, it makes things worse, because they can positively identify to whom 'reading privileges' belong << people share files, right?
decimation: sure, let me know if you find an open repo with all academic pubs present, updated regularly
☟︎ PeterL: asciilifeform:and to the extent it isn't a problem, it is solely because academia is mostly dead as a going concern << and here I go trying to get back into it :(
decimation: PeterL: it's not a bad idea if you can scam someone into paying for it
nubbins`: fwiw "everything is online now" people generally miss out on a broad spectrum of opportunity
☟︎ PeterL: no university password?
nubbins`: even if you could read 'em online, look what happens if you read them too fast
PeterL: get an undergrad girlfriend who can print it for you?
nubbins`: "everything is online" is a fine premise for commodity data
nubbins`: i've downloaded bootlegged concerts, since lost, that i will never, ever, ever find again
PeterL: you grep the dead trees?
PeterL: browse through google scholar?
decimation: it's not like several day delay involved in informing whatever patsy to do what is needed is great for your train of thought
decimation: and then if patsy discovers the volume/paper/whatever wasn't useful, how do you think they will react?
decimation: but that was when only people who knew wtf they were doing could even read
decimation: asciilifeform: publishers/authors have 'come to expect' royalties
PeterL: new #B-A need: print off all the articles and store in a library
☟︎ decimation: online repo is fine, as long as it is properly organized and indexed
decimation: note that attempting to accomplish this task was why whats his face hung himself
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9035 @ 0.00027384 = 2.4741 BTC [+]
PeterL: nubbins`: what cutoff?
PeterL: all the articles asciilifeform wants to read later
PeterL: would deedbot be a suitable place to publish scientific research?
☟︎ decimation: sure, or at least a hash/pointer to the same
trinque: PeterL: depends on licensing I guess; I don't have the bankroll to get into any copyright battles for anyone
decimation: and I even pay for an IEEE membership w/societies (mostly IEEE papers)
trinque: part of the interest for me working on deedbot- was to see how hard the next thing would be, publishing magnet link hashes, dht keys, something like that
trinque: that idea is better off being a tool you run against your own bitcoind
trinque: asciilifeform: yeh, people here would have to run it
trinque: asciilifeform: I have long wanted a system where member nodes can all publish wads 'o gpg stuff, peers don't know the contents of the wad, give each-other redundancy
☟︎ trinque: there are a few attempts at doing it with a shitty alt-coin
PeterL: trinque: isn't that what bitmessage is supposed to do?
trinque: PeterL: in the ballpark; there's storj, also ballpark
trinque: needs to be built on bitcoin
PeterL: why need to build on bitcoin?
trinque: google, one of the things which will survive the fall...
decimation: perhaps one day google will be 'snowdened'
decimation: something tells me google security would notice the racks going out the door
decimation: asciilifeform: how do you 'scan and post' a book? I just fujitsu scansnap
decimation: do you have a collection of custom scripts to turn a pile of images into a pdf/djvu
trinque: asciilifeform: is the situation that google bought deja news then didn't put up the whole archive?
trinque: I'm not old enough to have experienced a usenet golden age
PeterL: I used a couple "google groups" for a while, before I moved up to the bitcoinTalk forum
decimation: trinque: in the olden days it was expected your local isp would provide a usenet server and collect archives
decimation: 'deja news' was kinda like the original 'stack overflow' in terms of its usefulness to troubleshooting common computer issues
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 45800 @ 0.00027377 = 12.5387 BTC [-] {2}
trinque: quip above about the fall was that I'm sure inside google it's easy to access all this information, regardless of what levers the external surface has
decimation: I doubt 99% of folks inside google even know/care
☟︎ trinque: decimation: probably doesn't matter
decimation: the assumption of competence when it comes to a big bureaucracy is generally a poor one
trinque: asciilifeform's two govts observation about the US I think applies to Googles as well
trinque: who gives a fuck who's working on gmail
trinque: the company has more information than arguably any other, and is building a robot army
trinque: they'll be powerful for a long time.
decimation: I don't buy that there is a meta-google
trinque: I don't buy that such overtly, cynically powerful entities have not a single functioning brain within
decimation: the same could be said about the us in general
trinque: "don't be evil" has to be the cheesiest wink at the camera of all time
☟︎ decimation: I like moldbug's theory: those 'with a brain' are generally engaged in spending all their time battling each other
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 23544 @ 0.00027425 = 6.4569 BTC [+] {2}
PeterL: I wonder if google is cacheing the info on servers outside the US, so they could outlast a US collapse?
trinque: lockheed martins and googles are what I expect to remain in the ashes
trinque: which ones are actually prepared for the collapse, we'll find out then
trinque: but to think none of them are, that's naive
trinque: day two, and we're back to clubs and wearing skins
jurov: if the collapse will look like anything in the ostbloc
jurov: all gear will be gon to scrap metal or so
trinque: asciilifeform: silos are still there, as far as I know
pete_dushenski: unless someone can point me to mengele's published paper
pete_dushenski: haha what... i was trying to hunt down some nazi scientific papers last night
pete_dushenski: i'm generally curious about the merits of their decade and change of research
☟︎ pete_dushenski: my digging was more concentration camp focused, but i guess you bring up a good point that there's was a huge breadth of inquiry at the time
pete_dushenski: chemical weapons, v2 rockets, many things i have still to learn of
pete_dushenski: hm well alexandria may have been replaceable/rediscoverable, but if nazi work goes down with usg, how long do we wait ?
pete_dushenski: if anyone can point me towards interesting work in german, i'll translate it for cripes sake
decimation: asciilifeform: I know that the german chemical industry was also generally transported to usg
pete_dushenski: in german, i have hello, goodbye, sorry, counting to 10, and a few other random words
pete_dushenski: though if i could add any 4th language, just for reading comprehension even, it'd be german
trinque: pete_dushenski: ich lerne deutsche mit duolingo
trinque: barely toddler level, but the app's fun
decimation: unfortunately german isn't as useful today because germany has been well-anglicized
pete_dushenski: trinque: haha i actually did a few lessons on there ! back when i started 'sabbatical'
pete_dushenski: on the spendier side, there's always rosetta stone, but having someone to speak to other than my mother would be nice
pete_dushenski: i really don't know any other german speakers with whom to converse
☟︎ pete_dushenski: but as i said earlier, reading comprehension would be the most valuable for my purposes
pete_dushenski: one of the trickier conversations to break up, i admit, but it's a little better now.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 54600 @ 0.000272 = 14.8512 BTC [-] {2}