assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 4 @ 0.04899992 = 0.196 BTC [+] {2}
ozbot: Selling 4.13M stolen DogeCoins
dub: cant put anything past these shibes
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids it already has picked up considerably.
mircea_popescu: dub remarkable how calous, 3rd world teh forum has become.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5980 @ 0.00090133 = 5.39 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: dude is back in there bumping his shit, not a care in the world etc.
dub: like isk, doge has an implied level of lawlessness
mircea_popescu: anyway, teh diids pushing it should be just about running out of suckerpool. should be lulzy to see it unwind.
jurov: verily, they should build drones and take it inbetween them somewhere in desert
nubbins`: mircea_popescu: 4 hours too late, but i'm here now!
nubbins`: ah, don't know him, but those paintings he's selling look amazing
mircea_popescu: well he's too clueless to know me, so do you wanna escrow his fee ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 68 @ 0.005 = 0.34 BTC
ozbot: portraits, commissions, and original paintings by Maureen Gubia
nubbins`: "at the club, at the beach, or in the amazon. "
nubbins`: over the years, i've stopped taking "this would be great album art" as a compliment
ThickAsThieves: virtual currency as an investment exclusively for the company’s benefit is not a money
nubbins`: so what the fuck is mike caldwell?
ThickAsThieves: "The first ruling states that, to the extent a user creates or “mines” a convertible virtual currency solely for a user’s own purposes, the user is not a money transmitter under the BSA"
nubbins`: solely for a user's own purposes
ThickAsThieves: "If further clarification is needed, FinCEN encourages the submission of a request for an administrative ruling. The procedure for submission of administrative rulings can be found at FinCEN’s Web site"
nubbins`: not sure which "official" thread is more pathetic, asicminer or cavirtex
ozbot: Visa Inc (V) news: Visa's CEO Discusses F1Q 2014 Results - Earnings Call Transcript - Seeking Alpha
ThickAsThieves: "And there’s certainly some interesting things about Bitcoin and other things like it, but there’s also a great deal of complexity. People talk about things like frictionless and things like that, and when you actually dig through it, it’s really not the case. It’s far more complex than that. And we feel very comfortable with the business that we have here."
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: iv counted 46 ticks over 2 days, to compare to say the S&P 500 i would expect 46 ticks every 2 minutes?
herbijudlestoids: lets say the rate of trading goes up to 10 ticks an hour, will you still stream on irc? :D
mircea_popescu: anyway, my point was more that the trades streamed when it was half a bitcoin worth 50 dollars, and it's still streaming when it's 50 bitcoins worth 50k
herbijudlestoids: not sure if youre talking to me, but do oyu really believe BTCUSD valued at 1mio?
jurov: if btc is to be small part of international trade
benkay: this is a room of true believers ;)
jurov: then it just has to go there
benkay: oddly specific number.
benkay: something a winklevii drops on the floor and nobody wants to touch
ozbot: Bitcoin prices, Bitcoin inflexibility pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: anyway, not the first time cluelessnes costs a guy his bread.
nubbins`: sometimes for months at a time
nubbins`: the "salty" he mentioned, i've done business with
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11500 @ 0.00090076 = 10.3587 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 71 @ 0.049 = 3.479 BTC [+]
deadweasel: he should do one like marge did of Monty Burns.
mircea_popescu: it's a sad time we live in when the close minded burgeois scares the revolutionary artists.
☟︎ assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12786 @ 0.00090137 = 11.5249 BTC [+]
deadweasel: i try not to should on things anymore, I'm always wrong.
jurov: benkay, what??? are we are talking about the portrait you wanted to procure?
nubbins`: i may have pasted that one here before
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: have you ever heard of the freegold hypothesis?
jurov: someone wanted to procure mirceas portrait
jurov: and asked nubbins` to paint it
jurov: now i had some brainfart "that they want to paint him as hitler?"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4000 @ 0.00090342 = 3.6137 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids for that matter, bitcoin could actually be it.
herbijudlestoids: some of the properties you apply to BTC apply equally (or more so) to gold and that is an asset that happens to already be on ECB balance sheet ;)
mircea_popescu: you're basically saying "the stuff i say about cars also applies to other locomobiles, such as steam powered train engines and horsedrawn carriages"
herbijudlestoids: "Nevertheless, the pressure is unyielding : people holding Bitcoins have no practical incentive to get rid of them, and people trying to get rid of their increasingly worthless dollars have no recourse. "
mircea_popescu: sure, except fundamental issues prevent either from competing with the combustion engine.
mircea_popescu: and since there's no room for 2nd place, it will just be this.
mircea_popescu: much like the us has no train infrastructure, and uses trucks for everything. trains would be more effective for trucking, but gasoline engines are more effective overall and so... trains are fucked.
herbijudlestoids: what youre proposing here is essentially BTC takes over the economic role of USD as global reserve asset
mircea_popescu: it takes over the role of everyting. usd, eur, rmb, sdr, gold, stupid facebook tokens, in-game currencies like isk,
herbijudlestoids: no? so why do holders of Bitcoins have any practical incentive to hold them lol
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2600 @ 0.00090342 = 2.3489 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: this is why visa can't compete, not really, even if it doesn't know it yet.
herbijudlestoids: i personally feel that BTC makes a good medium of exchange but a poor store of value
mircea_popescu: they can't flawlessly merge ten billion likes into the value of an oil tanker.
mircea_popescu: my wealth stored in btc has been doing better than anyone's any other wealth.
deadweasel: mircea_popescu, at some point, don't you have to start worrying about physical security.. hired goons of the status quo and whatnot?
deadweasel: so no, not until my government runs phsyically amok
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids well, reality is that which happens, you know ?
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: so if i do a quick stock scan and find all the global penny stocks that outperformed BTC since inception, wouldnt those actually be the best store of value :/
jurov: ^ with billions total valuation
mircea_popescu: we're not talking six month's worth of pump and dump here.
mircea_popescu: i'm kind-of curious if he actually finds one. afaik it doesn't exist.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: (technically 10k btc for a 19 dollar pizza would mean 0.19 cents each, but we'll let that slide)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16200 @ 0.00090139 = 14.6025 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: so scour the entire list of known pinks for anything matching it, i'm not picky.
mircea_popescu: that juicy moment when person suddenly realises the immensity of this shit.
ozbot: BitBet - Fico will be elected President of Slovakia
jurov: local chars are missing
herbijudlestoids: so maybe my maths is retarded but i calculated (1000-0.01)/0.01=99999%
herbijudlestoids: i guess up to oyu if you wanna use 4Y ROC as proof of its viability as a store of value but i dont feel very convinced
mircea_popescu: im not trying to convince you. i merely made the previous points.
mircea_popescu: fact is so far it did so work. what the future brings... the future knows.
herbijudlestoids: well it works inasmuch as you can convince people to join the BTC economy and exchange real good and services, and in cases where you cant it doesnt work
mircea_popescu: this is like the intuition of everyone, but it's perfectly false. bitcoin works fine irrespective of what anyone does.
herbijudlestoids: i doubt you actually expect that your net worth denominated in BTC would be equal to a fraction if you tried to convert it all at once to say USD or whatever
herbijudlestoids: am i wrong? do you expect theres enough liquidity for you to make a transition like that without any loss?
mircea_popescu: merely the preference to save strong currencies and to spend weak ones ensures the price differential.
mircea_popescu: compared to anything else man made, bitcoin is adamantine.
herbijudlestoids: i swear i mentioned something about global reserve asset earlier
herbijudlestoids: you cant just call a currency the strong one for no reason. the use of a particular asset as a store of value by the marginal global saver(s) is what gives it that characteristic
herbijudlestoids: i.e. what are those entities converting their productive surplus into
mircea_popescu: no business in the history of business did anything like this
mircea_popescu: (much like the actual peasants of zimbabwe, what do they know of finance)
jurov: oh, they did notice ever fattening stacks of bills
mircea_popescu: i guess. and obama is increasing the minimum wage, and more qe, and more bailouts, and so on and so forth.
herbijudlestoids: im not really sure what any of the above has to do with greshams law lol
mircea_popescu: it's a better model than the "marginal saver", in that it relies less on statistical artificery.
mircea_popescu: other than the statistical reason (ie, bitcoin is the strong currency because of its history) there are actually legions of other reasons. bitcoin is fungible, unlike any other fiat
mircea_popescu: (in that no court can order the de-fungibilisation of bitcoin)
mircea_popescu: in any dispute of currency the more fungible wins, period.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 100 @ 0.00426999 = 0.427 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 60 @ 0.00426999 = 0.2562 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 50 @ 0.00426999 = 0.2135 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9450 @ 0.00090342 = 8.5373 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: you gotta appreciate this position is in no way novel to me, you know.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 65 @ 0.00426999 = 0.2775 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: and you'll be well advised to take note that for all his childish posturing a) yarvin capitulated and tried to make his own bitcoin
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 40 @ 0.00426999 = 0.1708 BTC [+]
herbijudlestoids: hmmm well i would never have argued that the USG will shutdown bitcoin or that bitcoin will be worthless, those seem like two stupid things to bet on
herbijudlestoids: although i would posit that considering the nature of centralisation of the internet currently, it might not be that hard for the USG to do so
herbijudlestoids: also i dont think bitcoin is worthless, i think it has a considerable value as a medium of exchange
decimation: I think Mr. Yarvin was correct in his analysis about the game theory of bitcoin saving
decimation: he underestimated the avarice of those who would influence USG decisionmaking
herbijudlestoids: can you please explain for us retards, how "bitcoin just is"? considering it requires a globally distributed network of hosts to constantly verify and transact? fractures introduced to the network topology, or similar, seem to argue against the idea that bitcoin is simply a mathematical construct. you need compute power and communication to implement and distribute the construct
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids ironically, the medium of exchange function is the thing at which bitcoin sucks worst.
decimation: It exists just like the democrats and republicans exist
decimation: there's no reason why they exist really, everyone could change their minds tomorrow
kakobrekla: www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsE0BwQ3l8U&feature=youtu.be&t=27m47s
mircea_popescu: who else did you not know was gay ? elton john ? boy george ?
herbijudlestoids: mircea_popescu: the comment you sent me seems to directly contradict your statement that bitcoin will replace everything
decimation: LoL that German youtube guy "Der Diktator der Kunst ist Ideal."
Dimsler_: mircea_popescu, what are you estimate daily active users at
mircea_popescu: i have no idea. there's like 7k or so full nodes iirc.
herbijudlestoids: if it is to replace everything, how can it also "never be a direct means of payment for retail anything"
mircea_popescu: has electricity replaced female labour in the house or hasn't it ?
herbijudlestoids: well, i assume your "everything" includes direct means of payment for retail things, since you included even facebook ecash or whatever in your list of things it is to replace
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4300 @ 0.00090211 = 3.8791 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: you're going to have stuff built on top of btc to handle the subsidiary and marginal task of retail.
mircea_popescu: but btc will dictate how these look and how they work and how they feel and even what retail is.
mircea_popescu: much like... no 1800s woman on her knees polishing the floors is much represented in the modern vacuum cleanner.
decimation: There's no reason in principle why one couldn't extend bank credit which is convertible to claims on BTC
decimation: Therefore no reason why you couldn't run a btc credit card
decimation: of course you would want a non-retarded security model
decimation: I'm also assuming the word "bank" means something different than the modern western concept
decimation: like, the bank knows about your actual credit riskiness, rather than just accepting fiat insurance
decimation: I donno, I came to bitcoin via Mr. Yarvin. In retrospect his doubts about Bitcoin look silly.
herbijudlestoids: ok, well im not really sure how bitcoin not being used for retail makes it a bad MoE, but ok thats your view
herbijudlestoids: decimation: not really sure what your comment re republocrats was about, very far from the answer i was looking for
decimation: well, what I was attempting to convey was the idea that bitcoin is contingent on coordination amoung many in a mysterious way
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1050 @ 0.00090342 = 0.9486 BTC [+]
decimation: In the same way, the US political parties stay in power even when both obviously operate against the interests of those who are coordinating
herbijudlestoids: err if bitcoin is contingent on coordination then the statement "bitcoin just is" is false.
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids i merely said that out of the various functions, that happens to be the one it does worst.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 144 @ 0.00090708 = 0.1306 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: doesn't mean it's bad. just means it's much better at other things.
herbijudlestoids: "bitcoin just is, as long as many coordinate in a mysterious way"
decimation: Do you think the triangle is in a simliarly precarious position?
mircea_popescu: be so kind not to modify my statements by your discussions with third parties eh :D
mircea_popescu: the mark of the true junkie : he keeps a stable of dealers, rather than the other way around
ozbot: New York State Regulator Promises Tough Bitcoin Rules - Bloomberg Law
assbot: [MPEX] [FT] [X.EUR] 200 @ 0.00166253 = 0.3325 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: “If the choice for regulators is to permit money laundering on the one hand, or to permit innovation on the other, we are always going to choose squelching the money laundering first,” Lawsky said at the hearing.
☟︎ decimation: Indeed. Exactly as you predicted, the regulators are more than happy to cede currency regulation to Bitcoin, if Bitcoin allows them to crowbar their banks.
mircea_popescu: it's funny tho, making exactly the wrong moves. you couldn't pay them to be this conveniently stupid.
decimation: The hilarious part to me is that they think their "bitlicense" will allow to them dictate to bitcoin, rather than the other way around
mircea_popescu: bitcoin was taken to $10 by lulz, to $100 by lulz and drama and to $1000 by lulz, drama and mining.
decimation: It's going to go to > 1 mil based on this stuff
mircea_popescu: i guess with the extra "watch us fail" boost 10k may even be possible
decimation: It's because a few indiviuals in key positions think they can ride the wave of terror to power
Dimsler_: i think the run up will be one that nobody will be expecting
Dimsler_: from the historical research on bubles i've read
mircea_popescu: “If that same company can be started in the U.K. or Germany, maybe that innovation just gets pushed offshore,” Liew said.
mircea_popescu: "Nobody will care that the original paper may have been written by an American and the original discussion on the long forgotten original Bitcoin forum was carried in English. I can deal just as well with Russian investors, I can deal just as well with Chinese investors, Bitcoin is completely neutral from a cultural perspective. This neutrality means that cultures will have to compete. So far the US is losing this comp
mircea_popescu: etition at this level. If things don’t get fixed soon the only thing that we’ll be able to say for sure about Bitcoin regulation will be that it won’t be written in English, and it won’t consider US interests or sensibilities."
Dimsler_: well i dont' really want to deal with the west
decimation: Lawsky at times sympathized with the goals of the investors at the hearing, complaining that it could take ?days? to pay his credit card from a bank account. And he criticized fees immigrants pay to send money home, and welcomed the chance to use Bitcoin to reduce the costs.
decimation: ?That?s a huge thing, for the country and New Yorkers,? Lawsky said.
ozbot: The future of Bitcoin regulation pe Trilema - Un blog de Mircea Popescu.
mircea_popescu: "This is possibly the last chance to take those piles of fundamentally worthless US dollars and use them for something with any sort of future value."
decimation: It's a huge thing for New Yorkers indeed.
mircea_popescu: “The Bitcoin ecosystem of companies and investors has to engage to allay real concerns and avoid being pigeonholed by policy makers,” Klein said.
herbijudlestoids: implication is that its no longer possible to exchange USD for something with any sort of future value...
mircea_popescu: you're trapped in this mental representation wherein stuff can only happen with permission. this is not how things happen. your choice is whether you're on the boat when it sails or not.
mircea_popescu: technically it is still possible, but in retrospect it'
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20128 @ 0.00090108 = 18.1369 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
herbijudlestoids: im not trapped in any such mental representation and dont really believe for example that a BTCUSD price punctuation event would need "permission" to occur lol
decimation: what controlling factor would limit its rise?
herbijudlestoids: if the possibility came and went then the implication is that people *today* have literally no option for investment...so BTCs are out for those people?
mircea_popescu: well, i dun know what you think, obviously. im merely noticing that what you say comes from this one point of view.
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids the article was discussing investors, you know ?
mircea_popescu: now, people do have options. it's just they won't take them.
mircea_popescu: there's options you have, and then there's options you actually can take.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12550 @ 0.00089833 = 11.274 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: if back in april wanna-be investors had actually invested, the us still had a chance.
mircea_popescu: should have started earlier, but there was still space.
Dimsler_: are we talking about btc speculation?
decimation: There are only a few more orders of magnitude of growth left before it becomes the world trade currency
mircea_popescu: the fact that andressen horovitz is not in the wot today dooms it.
ozbot: Hedge-Fund Manager Paul Singer ‘Shocked’ by Bitcoin Popularity - MoneyBeat - WSJ
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids let's examine the following avenue : maddoff's "investments" collapsed like so much termite eaten furniture.
mircea_popescu: well... what exactly is this misrepresentation ? what is its substance ?
mircea_popescu: a cluelessness about the real value of assets, which may as well mean "buying US stocks" as it may mean "moving money from our account to our account"
Dimsler_: well the problem with US stocks is they all suck
Dimsler_: unless you're buying tobacco or liquor
decimation: US stocks are a trival case of the CEO's pirating money from the "investor's" 401k accounts
herbijudlestoids: madoffs investments collapsed because of a cluelessness about the real value of assets?
mircea_popescu: can you prove to me the entire troop of us hedge funds aren't little maddofs running around, shielded by "industry standards" ?
Dimsler_: how does it not make any sense
herbijudlestoids: but i can prove to you quite easily through factor decomposition that most US hedge funds are not doing anything special at all
Dimsler_: the US stock market is a giant boiler room
mircea_popescu: maddoff's balancesheet, before the collapse, showed some assets.
Dimsler_: refer to current price of facebook stock
herbijudlestoids: i wish people would stop interrupting your interesting comments with inane bullshit so i can try to understand
☟︎ Dimsler_: huge market cap, little revenue
herbijudlestoids: your summary is about as useful as the stupid analogy that decimation gave earlier.
Apocalyptic: keep it in the chan mircea_popescu if you can
Apocalyptic: herbijudlestoids, just /ignore people that annoy you
mircea_popescu: Apocalyptic i'll just publish the thing when we're done
TomServo: I got all excited and ran out of log. :(
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8100 @ 0.0009054 = 7.3337 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18450 @ 0.00090024 = 16.6094 BTC [-]
decimation: If not bitcoin, than some other cryptocurrency. And if any cryptocurrency, than bitcoin.
decimation: asciilifeform you mention on your blog your efforts to discover the inner workings of FPGAs - have you made enough progress to create a self-modifying compute unit?
decimation: I mean that it can program itself after design time
decimation: Why hasn't something like "opencores" largely replaced that?
decimation: Is it a clock speed question or is it a quantity of gates question?
decimation: Interesting. So these companies make their money by building proprietary cores on top of their proprietary chips.
decimation: So they insert an artifical layer of indirection in the hardware and give you an opaque software layer to undo it
decimation: So, why doesn't some no-name Chinese fab make a relatively "generic" chip and take over the market?
decimation: I guess it wouldn't include said trickery
decimation: Do you think there will ever be a day when hardware makers find it in their interest to peddle hardware that has an accessible interface?
decimation: Or will they always be beholden to chasing after some lock-in dream?
decimation: And yet, bunnie points out that freescale has opened the docs for their ARM clone
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9688 @ 0.00090525 = 8.7701 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: I suspect only datasheet/programming model
decimation: and they probably only open that because they are a two-bit player
nubbins`: i downloaded an osx program the other day, double-clicked to open, "this application was not created by an authorized developer" or some such
nubbins`: had to right-click and select open
decimation: Plus, good luck achieving max clock rate and not melting the chip
decimation: suppose your design occupies most of the gates and ends up clocking nearly all of them at max rate.
decimation: It seems that at some point you are going to need more current
nubbins`: asciilifeform, i always was curious about the "walled garden!!" type people who also owned consoles
nubbins`: no fuckin shit it's a walled garden, y'know?
nubbins`: that said, nothing more than a mild inconvenience to disable the feature, i'm sure
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 122 @ 0.00084426 = 0.103 BTC [+]
decimation: nubbins` - I enjoyed your German painter link. "Der Diktator der Kunst ist Ideal."
decimation: that's the obvious next step for apple to take
decimation: I believe they have unofficially said as much
nubbins`: asciilifeform, that'd be the worry, but i don't think it'll happen any time soon
nubbins`: decimation, jonathan meese is an intense man
nubbins`: don't get me wrong, they'll fuck ya raw all kinds of ways for a buck
herbijudlestoids: after a rigorous discussion on bitcoin, i always top it off with a quick
nubbins`: but i don't think there's enough to gain from blocking all unsigned apps for them to risk it
decimation: Ascii, have you considered that the insecurity of MS (and apple) crapware now justifies the Pentagon's budgets?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 13500 @ 0.00090052 = 12.157 BTC [-]
decimation: For the amount of money the USG shovels into the beltway bandits, we could have your princely secure terminals
nubbins`: the number of lost hours alone spent making websites work with ie6
herbijudlestoids: asciilifeform: interesting thought, i hear yesterday the UK endorsed ODF for all documents in the future
nubbins`: "we can't open this, can you send it in .doc?"
decimation: I guess when peasants buy computers, peasant computing is what we get
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8300 @ 0.00090039 = 7.4732 BTC [-] {2}
Apocalyptic: <mircea_popescu> [03:33:34] in practice, it's gone. // is it ?
herbijudlestoids: haha i got a little lost in the post where you offered 10BTC to the guy to put a sharpie in his butt
mircea_popescu: herbijudlestoids you found your way to where i used that same sharpie to rape something awful ?
herbijudlestoids: this sentence "Right that, right there, even if she spent the entire interval nude, made soap out of her own sebum and ate food stampsvi you would not be able to cover cost." ...i feel like....i love this sentence
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2300 @ 0.00090024 = 2.0706 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7300 @ 0.00089963 = 6.5673 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17574 @ 0.00090052 = 15.8257 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform the one critique i have to this is that should it be invented afore, it'll then necessarily be known afore. this is perhaps unideal. bitcoin was invented before or after ? does it work because it was invented after ? would it have, were it invented before ?
herbijudlestoids: asciilifeform: i agree with the idea of building the infrastructure so that it doesnt necessarily need the internet
mircea_popescu: admitting you agree the parachute moment was at the latest nixon
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 326 @ 0.00090194 = 0.294 BTC [+]
herbijudlestoids: but also gnunet has some support for the concept, including the ability to inject packets directly onto a WLAN device without need any existing network
ozbot: Egypt Shut Down Its Net With a Series of Phone Calls | Threat Level | Wired.com
decimation: ?There are a handful of big providers you would need to coordinate with and they are all licensees of the state telecom, so they are all beholden to the Telecommunication Regulatory Authority, so your license is dependent on following the rules,? Labovitz said.
herbijudlestoids: how do you convince everyone to run a client, and in the end most "consumers" run it from the cloud anyway
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6550 @ 0.00090194 = 5.9077 BTC [+]
Duffer1: S.NSA's next project ascii? :P
mircea_popescu: asciilifeform> in fact, now that i think of it, btc is the missing puzzle piece in the ancient problem of bootstrapping a global radio mesh. << /me grins
mircea_popescu: btc is in fact the missing piece in the ancient problem of bootstrapping everything of this sort.
mircea_popescu: fun fact : parasuta is, in romanian, yet another word for whore.
mircea_popescu: petarda (ie, firecracker) ; zdreanta (used scrap of cloth) ; there's prolly 100+
mircea_popescu: lele actually wouldn't be recognised as such. it's a disused word and most speakers would only take it as an antiquated form for older sister/girlfriend
herbijudlestoids: yeah you can see the little bar next to it shows google isnt as sure as for the other words
mircea_popescu: jesus google is shitty, there's a conjunctive verbal form there, definitely can't work as a noun nor does it mean whore.
herbijudlestoids: probly the entire thing is done by machine learning and no validation ;)
herbijudlestoids: so to the machine, somehow drab is somewhere on the synonym chain for whore
mircea_popescu: hey kakobrekla : it's not just slovenly, it's also slatternly!
mircea_popescu: btw herbijudlestoids do yourself a favour get in the wot today.
herbijudlestoids: but nobody will rate me, so i cant rate bingoboingo as a 10 based on his sexual attractiveness
herbijudlestoids: i do not know them specifically except in their capacity as people i also briefly spoke to on this chan :P vex at least lives in same country and likes similar music
Duffer1: i suspect at least one of his buttcoins is actually him...
mircea_popescu: well... at least i presume vexual drinks. tho it could be any number of things :D
herbijudlestoids: whats the point of being on the WoT? dont i need to transact to get rating? i dont plan on transacting :P
Duffer1: even if you don't transact you're still learning the right habits
mircea_popescu: the point is that if anyone needs to figure out wtf you're up to they know who to ask
herbijudlestoids: i think i have not signed or encrypted anything with a GPG key in years
mircea_popescu: otr ensures you that your messages can only be read at one point on the network, and that once the conversation is ended anyone could have written it.
herbijudlestoids: let me explain: i used to conduct various communications using GPG over email. now i use a combination of tails, i2p and pidgin+OTR or i2pmessenger+OTR
herbijudlestoids: i was a user back when it was just iip over irc so i guess iv got a softspot for it
herbijudlestoids: what do you mean? afaik .i2p is not a globally resolvable namespace
herbijudlestoids: personally i prefer implementations like the GNUnet Name System (GNS)
herbijudlestoids: but dont have much requirement for globally resolvable namespace in darknets anyway
herbijudlestoids: i thought there was some flaw discovered in namecoin that killed adoption
kakobrekla: you cant kill something that isnt there
mircea_popescu: a, no. it's just more recent than i've been paying attention.
mircea_popescu: i have more like a 6 months span on stuff that far on the periphery
mircea_popescu: lol there's going to be the piss-mp-off gem on the fgorum, people buying it from each other on the grounds that any day now it'll piss me off
Apocalyptic: lol, someone registered impex.bit, but mpex.bit is still free
Duffer1: mpex.bit the latest fuffle
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15498 @ 0.00090315 = 13.997 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.04998999 = 0.2499 BTC [+]
herbijudlestoids: 0.01NMC, you could register every word in the english dictionary for not much NMC
Duffer1: seems like an interesting way to attack the coin
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 11 @ 0.04999813 = 0.55 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: Since domains are extremely cheap to obtain with Namecoin, and registered domains cannot be seized (they can only be transferred by their owner), Namecoin has had problems with cybersquatters buying up domains, hoping to resell them later for a profi
Duffer1: i can't imagine how they'd solve that issue
Duffer1: other than by making domains unrealistically expensive
decimation: Ziff-Davis did some research using some of the bitcoin chain tracking software, tracing four addresses which were used and were determined from multiple CryptoLocker victims who, after paying their money, made public the address that they had sent payment to. The CryptoLocker extortionware acquired a total of 41, just shy of 42,000 bitcoins, 41,928 bitcoins.
mircea_popescu: lol is this the nut with the "fix your harddrive spin" nonsense /
decimation: heh yeah. sorry I couldn't find a better reference.
decimation: he has a mildly informative podcast which occasionally has interesting tidbits
mircea_popescu: if they get the 42k value by looking at which addresses those 2 btc were spent
mircea_popescu: they're 99% certain looking at some exchange hotwallet.
decimation: Certainly whoever wrote that virus wouldn't be dumb enough to use unique addresses?
mircea_popescu: anyay, this has been enough excitement for one day. take care all!
decimation: herbijudlestoids did you read the moldbug essay to which your FOFOA link points?
ozbot: World News - latest world news headlines - FT.com
decimation: Perhaps I am deluded, but I thought it clarifed matters w.r.t. currency adoption
decimation: The "Ben Graham" analysis of bitcoin yeilds nonsense
herbijudlestoids: yes, thats why i brought up FOFOA, because a few of the things mircea mentioned were very similar to things FOFOA has said about the concept of freegold
herbijudlestoids: i do not compare gold (or btc) to stocks when evaluating its job as a store of value
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 88 @ 0.00428976 = 0.3775 BTC [+] {2}
decimation: do you have a reference on your freegold idea?
herbijudlestoids: would you like some links? easiest to google fofoa freegold and in the sitemap on google are a bunch specifically on the topic
ozbot: FOFOA: Freegold Foundations
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4202 @ 0.00090567 = 3.8056 BTC [+]
herbijudlestoids: full disclosure i converse with FOFOA occassionally and some market info and thoughts i have passed onto him have been included in some of his work. i claim no particular insight just provided otherwise proprietary market information
decimation: Moldbug would seem to argue that Bitcoin is harder than gold, by virtue of its finite supply
decimation: but FOFOA seems to argue that gold is held in stronger hands
herbijudlestoids: its about roles, what asset plays what role to the aggregate world aka "superorganism"
herbijudlestoids: right now, USD plays the role of reserve asset (i.e. store of value), medium of exchange and unit of account globally and especially in the case of marginal producers
herbijudlestoids: EUR was by design (4 decades in the making) to take the role of USD on its eventual failure in those roles, but only in the roles of medium of exchange and unit of account
herbijudlestoids: store of value for marginal producers/savers to be carried out in gold (see ECB balance sheet)
herbijudlestoids: FOFOA argument is that bitcoin versus USD is a non competition, real competition is BTC versus "what comes next" i.e. EUR+Gold
herbijudlestoids: and while BTC might make an elegant medium of exchange it wont be adopted as a reference point like EUR since its hard
herbijudlestoids: the implicit assumption is that the MoE should be soft, grow/contract along with the economy
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16100 @ 0.00089625 = 14.4296 BTC [-] {2}
herbijudlestoids: this all goes back to mises regression theory, that money is whatever people (especially the marginal producer/consumer aka saver/borrower) use for money. ECB, peoples bank of china, oil surplus like Saudis all understand gold in the role of store of value, therefore gold is the store of value
herbijudlestoids: demand gives the value, so unless ECB and saudis start demanding to save in BTC it will never be store of value
decimation: Okay, but the question is: what will the saudis demand in the future?
herbijudlestoids: yesterday today and in the future the saudis have always demanded gold
herbijudlestoids: even in the advent of the petrodollar, under the assumption the dollars could be redeemed on the spot market for physical gold
ozbot: FOFOA: It's the Flow, Stupid
ozbot: FOFOA: Flow Addendum
decimation: Interesting. I must log now, but I will read through this in the future.
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: I am trying to get some play sports book to let a freiend who hasn't cared for long enough's funds
BingoBoingo: It seems like a rather futile enterprise to try, but if the Doge'ers are as brazen as they seem to be now.
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: Have you ever given thought to the possibility the universe just might hate R and want to make a mockery of it.
[\]: non existant problem, basically
BingoBoingo: Before the end of February I imagine my site is going to requite a niggers.txt file
herbijudlestoids: do you wanna see my new tick distribution from the last 48h? this is per 10 tick returns
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: That common LISP or PYthon could be less verbose.
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: How do yoy know I don't have better deets
herbijudlestoids: i can do in R in about 5 lines what takes ~100 lines in python
BingoBoingo: or care about moves measured in minutes or days.
herbijudlestoids: BingoBoingo: you might, i dunno, i just thought you migh tlike to see it, i pulled the data from #bitcoin-assets-trades and processed in R :)
herbijudlestoids: not much point doing a daily returns distribution when youv only got 2 days
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: I don't speak R to the computer for the same reason I don't speak Attic Greek in conversation
BingoBoingo: Attic Greek is old enough skipping to Sabine taming Latin is reasonable. R is old enough skipping to Python is reasonable (though Ruby is never reasonable).
herbijudlestoids: thats a simple example BingoBoingo, how do i do line #10 in python like i do it in R?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17700 @ 0.00090306 = 15.9842 BTC [+] {2}
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: line # 10 from what source?
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: I mean if you want letter perfect code Common LISP is the language, but in the garbage you pasted I can't say if you are protecting from garbage overloads or some shit.
herbijudlestoids: the thing is i know, because i used to do all my analysis in python and found R to be much quicker
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4550 @ 0.00089996 = 4.0948 BTC [-]
BingoBoingo: herbijudlestoids: I said nothing about your mystery code. I called your language garbage though
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4600 @ 0.00090577 = 4.1665 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 20471 @ 0.00090742 = 18.5758 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11500 @ 0.0009026 = 10.3799 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: Diablo-D3: Just remember I am not Paleo, and I will hunt you down and cover you with flower.
Diablo-D3: and I will have you arrested for attempted murder and you will spend your days in prison
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6234 @ 0.00090666 = 5.6521 BTC [+] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 703 @ 0.00083097 = 0.5842 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 100 @ 0.00446 = 0.446 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2600 @ 0.00089996 = 2.3399 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16391 @ 0.00090499 = 14.8337 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2400 @ 0.00090479 = 2.1715 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12200 @ 0.00090356 = 11.0234 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 900 @ 0.00090788 = 0.8171 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7900 @ 0.00090485 = 7.1483 BTC [-] {2}
BingoBoingo: Bitch wants me to insure their BTC balances though doesn't want my niggers.txt. Loser?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6488 @ 0.00090242 = 5.8549 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12553 @ 0.00090134 = 11.3145 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 24100 @ 0.00090597 = 21.8339 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6700 @ 0.00090134 = 6.039 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7000 @ 0.00090605 = 6.3424 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8588 @ 0.00090722 = 7.7912 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 51509 @ 0.00090884 = 46.8134 BTC [+] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 4503 @ 0.00090974 = 4.0966 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12197 @ 0.00090202 = 11.0019 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5400 @ 0.00090495 = 4.8867 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2500 @ 0.00090685 = 2.2671 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3900 @ 0.00090491 = 3.5291 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2485 @ 0.00090491 = 2.2487 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10365 @ 0.00090638 = 9.3946 BTC [+] {2}
ozbot: The Curious incident of Big Poppa - The Notorious XX - Wait What - YouTube
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3985 @ 0.00091086 = 3.6298 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10900 @ 0.00090134 = 9.8246 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5715 @ 0.00090415 = 5.1672 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 5 @ 0.04999994 = 0.25 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9068 @ 0.00090747 = 8.2289 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12862 @ 0.00091238 = 11.735 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2591 @ 0.00091695 = 2.3758 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 138 @ 0.00091572 = 0.1264 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 12 @ 0.04999994 = 0.6 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 26 @ 0.0056 = 0.1456 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 13 @ 0.61531686 = 7.9991 BTC [+] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 12 @ 0.645 = 7.74 BTC [+] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11276 @ 0.00091504 = 10.318 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 100 @ 0.11253783 = 11.2538 BTC [+] {25}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 12 @ 0.02860175 = 0.3432 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 52 @ 0.04899228 = 2.5476 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 20 @ 0.0286 = 0.572 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11100 @ 0.00091311 = 10.1355 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 75 @ 0.00577253 = 0.4329 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 4000 @ 0.00288388 = 11.5355 BTC [+] {16}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2250 @ 0.00091437 = 2.0573 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6000 @ 0.00091278 = 5.4767 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 50 @ 0.00579999 = 0.29 BTC [+] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 13 @ 0.04999993 = 0.65 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9450 @ 0.00091398 = 8.6371 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] [PAID] 5.00000000 BTC to 50`000 shares, 10000 satoshi per share
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 3025 @ 0.0009161 = 2.7712 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 95 @ 0.00429 = 0.4076 BTC [+]
ozbot: BitBet - Fico will be elected President of Slovakia
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 16519 @ 0.00091246 = 15.0729 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.63749999 = 2.55 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.64789999 = 1.2958 BTC [+] {2}
KRS1: 0 people found this useful
ozbot: Statement Regarding BTC Withdrawal Delays : Support Desk
jurov: <mircea_popescu> and we didn't even know the city exists! << which city you mean?
KRS1: I personally did not find it useful. There were not pictures of clowns or anything colorful on that pr.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5124 @ 0.00090967 = 4.6611 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: KRS1 well that may have something to do with 0 people using mtgox you know.
KRS1: They need more clowns.
mircea_popescu: truffles whatcha lolling at ? here's a fun fact : Slovakia : 18,933 sq miles (49,036 km²) ; LA : 33,954 sq mi (87,490 km2)
mircea_popescu: just because most of their city is undeveloped doesn't mean it's not a city now :D
jurov: ah yes. we have a joke about this
jurov: fico comes to china (he likes to go there) and they ask him: how many slovaks there are?
jurov: "And in which hotel do you stay?"
mircea_popescu: there's this ethnic group in romania, living in Oltenia (the south west), called olteni. they have a reputation of being sorta hillbilly-ish.
☟︎ mircea_popescu: so, one day these guys (about 2mn total) declare war to china.
mircea_popescu: the chinese are kind-of shocked, spend about a week trying to find large enouygh maps so this Oltenia is shiwn on them
mircea_popescu: eventualy they discover it's a province of Romania and not even autonomous, so they tell their ambassador at Bucharest to go on a trip to Caracal and see what in the fuck.
mircea_popescu: "Hello nice people. Did you send us a declaration of war ?!"
mircea_popescu: "But do you realise the great nation of Han is over a billion strong ? That the US falls over itself to do whatever we tell them to ? That we can call under arms about a quarter billion people within two weeks ?"
mircea_popescu: at which point the local troop is taken aback and they turn around to speak among themselves
mircea_popescu: "Hmm... so many chinese... where the fuck do we burry them all ?!"
mircea_popescu: but don't worry, i'll tell it again so it becomes funny.
truffles: look at u acknowledging differences
truffles: next ull be understanding what sarcasm is hmmm
KRS1: Once the 3 quarter billion chinese are armed they should take out their communist government for a shot at some freedom.
mircea_popescu: "We don't trust anything anymore. Not even the banking institutions," Partcha said. "I had saved in dollars, and when the banks froze deposits in 2001, I got pesos back and lost my money."
mircea_popescu: they seem more inclined to take out the us socialist government.
jurov: well, slovak (and i think other) policemen have similar problem, too
jurov: one comes home and wife tells him
jurov: honey, i have a good message
jurov: i'm pregnant, we'll have 5th child
jurov: he replies: nooooooooooooo
jurov: every 4th child is chinese!
mircea_popescu: so i take it slovak policemen go around in pairs because one can read, one can write, too, right ?
mircea_popescu: turns out the slovaks invented all teh romanian jokes :D
jurov: it has alternate point
jurov: "Because one never knows."
jurov: Jeden nikdy nevie.
jurov: den is day but that's unrelated
mircea_popescu: haha. depends. ok, how do you say "she drinks my drink" ?
jurov: but if you were to say she goes on my nerves, then
jurov: she is drinking my blood
mircea_popescu: ja ma mi, so jenen is in fact "one". romanian doesn't have it. there's cineva = somebody, but there's no "one" as an impersonal Is person.
jurov: it's any impersonal person, not just 1st
mircea_popescu: jeden nikdy nevie = nu se stie niciodata. a sti, to know, se stie is roughly the subjonctive. so the function is done by the verb rather than by a pronoun.
Neil: subjonctive: Is that franglais or sthg?
Neil: Cross between subjonctif and subjunctive. :)
Neil: If I were you etc. not if I was you
Neil: Much more prevalent in French than English
mircea_popescu: yeah. english has it but it's mostly... unknown so to speak.
KRS1: instead of learning slovakian, might want to start learning chinese
KRS1: I have one for you, then tell me.
Neil: mircea_popescu: Dude.
truffles: millions of chinese, not one hot hmm
KRS1: Mayne she's not 100% chinese, I shall summon her.
mircea_popescu: i don't go for the entire "hello my face is a pancake" thing
jurov: KRS1: i agree, though, you can talk russian at suprising number of places
Neil: pancake? I think you have the wrong nationality
Neil: Wow how tf did you pull that up in 10 secs
mircea_popescu: i think entire retirements will consist of strictly cataloguing the insanity that went on back in this day.
Neil: Koreans have noticeably "flat" faces but not Chinese. I've met plenty hot Chinese women and I live in Japan. Maybe you should move to Asia :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8140 @ 0.00091695 = 7.464 BTC [+]
KRS1: mircea_popescu: I feel the same way you do on that. The bitch in this video is an exception I think.
KRS1: Behold, your chinese dream woman.
ozbot: George Michael - I Want Your Sex (Stereo Version) - YouTube
mircea_popescu: "This video contains content from VEVO. It is restricted from playback on certain sites."
Neil: Some Chinese gals are really good fun. Don't take life too seriously.
KRS1: f'n a truffles.. He killed it in the 80's with that album, and other hits.
ozbot: George Michael - I Want Your Sex - YouTube
KRS1: ThickAsThieves, I was wondering..maybe she's a jap. I can never tell the difference with those people.
pankkake: well, there's a difference. chinese=ugly, japanese=beautiful
Neil: 80% of time Japanese / Chinese difference is clear. The 20% is a bitch.
KRS1: pankkake: hmm..interesting. I need to look into this.
pankkake: of course I'm trolly with the ugly/beautiful, but there is a certain truth to it :)
Neil: It's obvious 1 second after they start talking :)
truffles: which one is plastic surgery central
truffles: i couldnt tell if woman was chinese, id lean towards no
Neil: Since when was Antonopoulos pronounced Antonopolis?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3382 @ 0.00008885 = 0.3005 BTC [+] {2}
truffles: pity the lemmings couldnt google hot chinese :D
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11000 @ 0.00091661 = 10.0827 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 25 @ 0.0043 = 0.1075 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 50 @ 0.00275146 = 0.1376 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.6145005 = 1.229 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 56 @ 0.00415133 = 0.2325 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11017 @ 0.00092029 = 10.1388 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 200 @ 0.00588415 = 1.1768 BTC [+] {9}
Duffer1: bitcointalk.org when MPOE-PR isn't around?
jborkl: Mircea_popescu, Romania still frozen over?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61050001 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: jborkl it never was ? got a light coat, mebbe two inches
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.6105 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61020507 BTC [-]
jborkl: Oh , the news said Romania was in a deep freeze stopping the whole country
mircea_popescu: i can take a shot out the window if you want, but basically it just snowed enough to be cute
mircea_popescu: then again, im in the part of romania where the fig tree grows wild.
mircea_popescu: they probably had some snow around the carpathians bend, but hey.
mircea_popescu: once i fell with my car into the snow, had to have it pulled out my a military truck
jborkl: I figured the news was wrong again, just interested to see how wrong :)
mircea_popescu: gotta "make it newsworthy" huh. the conspiracy of government and press.
devthedev: Nice to finally meet you mircea_popescu :P
jborkl: Yeah, Romania had 1 inch of snow doesn't have the same rung
devthedev: I avoid the snow, I live in FL. lol
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 16621 @ 0.0000907 = 1.5075 BTC [+] {7}
mircea_popescu: During the Spanish colonization of the Americas, the giant anteater was one of many native fauna taken to Europe for display. At first, Europeans believed all anteaters were female and mated with their noses.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 10 @ 0.07500001 = 0.75 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1900 @ 0.00091661 = 1.7416 BTC [-]
ozbot: 2193847870.17428 | Next Diff in 858 blocks | Estimated Change: 13.6964% in 5d 3h 21m 44s
gribble: Next difficulty estimate | 2495218979.32 based on data since last change | 2588184152.17 based on data for last three days
mircea_popescu: apparently slovakia has a "Ordinary People and Independent Personalities" party.
mircea_popescu: everyone's an ordinary peopl and independent personality there.
jurov: oh, in every elections there's such crazy party
jurov: we had "Alliance of New Citizen"
jurov: "Party of Citizens' mutual understanding"
jurov: Freedom and Solidarity"
jurov: each of these actually got few MPs
jurov: yes, 5% of whatever many people come to vote
jurov: even Fico's party is called "Direction - Social Democracy"
Azelphur: hahaha mp on bitcoin foundation
mircea_popescu: im not even kidding jurov. you absolutely should think seriously about it.
jurov: yes, i did think, easy way to get immunity from law
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 2800 @ 0.00091216 = 2.554 BTC [-]
jurov: if the time comes...
mircea_popescu: easy way to be fucking sensible, to counterbalance all the idiots speaking for bitcoin as if they had a clue
mircea_popescu: you got four years till the next elections and more dough than any other candidate.
jurov: wao-ender: ^^ do you read this?
jurov: the problem is, it's very hard to get activists with half a brain here
jurov: i was involved in support of disabled people .. never again
mircea_popescu: forget "being involved". do. as in, for yourself, properly.
jurov: that was for myself, too. the stupidity was the problem
mircea_popescu: this is definitely the best opportunity for anything like that you'll have
mircea_popescu: bitcoin appeals to intelligent, young, educated people.
jurov: nah, they went out long ago
mircea_popescu: hit it before some other fuckwit piggybacks on the name without any credential or a clue.
wao-ender: but, our market is well timed for that, in Czech, there are people try be supportive for Pirate parties..
jurov: everythin *will* end up on my back
wao-ender: bitcoin party is just one step ahead
mircea_popescu: because by 2018 it will be all "hello I'm Herp McDerp, I have 0.059876 btc in a webwallet, let me tell you all about Bitcoin"
jurov: wao-ender: you know what crakpots attend progressbar
jurov: you'd have to deal with them
jurov: even rejection is dealing
wao-ender: they want used us in their politics program, like setup first PR at our space, tricksters.
mircea_popescu: wao-ender just negotiate with people. "o, you want to use us ? fine, but you must be naked while doing it" "o, you don't want to do naked pr ? ok, what else can you offer"
wao-ender: yeah, that's how I selling bitcoins
wao-ender: I just setup high price, when one is in the emergency, it will sell somehow..
jurov: there the situation is clear
jurov: but in politics, someone often comes to help
jurov: and them messes everything beyond repair
wao-ender: mircea_popescu: but, I will think about it, politics in our countyr will be open for new parties in year or next year after
mircea_popescu: so don't give them access to anything that's more dangerous than they're trustworthy.
wao-ender: mircea_popescu: because that Fico's party (SMER-SD) will loose it's managment when he moves to the president position afaik
mircea_popescu: wao-ender nothing comes of those who think about things, in my experience.
jurov: wao-ender: if you do know such trustworthy people, then i'll think about it
jurov: because i don't except for you
wao-ender: .. when I knew, he is second time premier, I knew best exit from politics is to be just two times president in a row.
mircea_popescu: or more properly said : you gotta think from the perspective "i am doing this, let me think how" rather than from the perspective "let me think if i will do this"
wao-ender: jurov: when this aim will be announced, I think some new comers will reveal from other circles
jurov: yes, that's what i'm talking about
jurov: what do you do with them? you can't give them any responsibility
mircea_popescu: you always can give someone responsibility. just tailor it.
wao-ender: oh, you need treat them like they are special in some way, in positive sense
mircea_popescu: make them copy down your party programme by hand for a week.
jurov: fuck i could have been a star of hearing disability HGO, run for MP, etc. I really was in national TV 2 times.
wao-ender: and not giving them full permissions, just little of them. They will just show you how they can manage responsibility with that little permissions
jurov: then i found I dont; really have any support, just backstabbing
wao-ender: and yes, you need to be cold, w/o any emotions at all.
jurov: often i imagine myself in a public dispute
jurov: only to realize i'd seriously offend most people involved
jurov: i like to speak too straight
wao-ender: oh, diplomatic speech is just all about training and clever words
mircea_popescu: just as long as you have a point, offending idiots is actually a net positive for you.
wao-ender: but well, I'm marked as master troll in my circles, is that great way to start?
jurov: there are *all* idiots then... usually almost nobody gets my point
mircea_popescu: then your point needs working on, or perhaps the expression thereof.
mircea_popescu: jurov just consider this : for all you know i could be deaf and mute. i've never bothered to prop up whatever dumbass conferences they do, where various nobodies gather to pat each other's backs. i still dominate the field. how come ?
mircea_popescu: way the fuck easier to do in a small country with a coherent culture, too.
mircea_popescu: just identify your target, tailor your message so it may understood and let it rip.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5817 @ 0.00091216 = 5.306 BTC [-]
wao-ender: it's all about smart moves, not about PR. PR is for me just horizontal voice/notion about person
wao-ender: ah and yes, that's how social engineering works
jurov: it needs to be something that forces me to overcome my bad experience with leading people/explaining things to them
wao-ender: in last years, there are also some well paid marketers called "growth hackers" who are doing this fine :)
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6823 @ 0.00091213 = 6.2235 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: yeah well see ? you can't become prisoner of your own bad experiences.
mircea_popescu: way too easy for others to hack you into inactivity, just by controlling that part.
wao-ender: Oh one thing, to be successful, you just need to be not negative, or passive agressive to someone.. that really sells your person
wao-ender: I just readed y'day mpoe-pr aproach to that strip bb, and other members was there like barking wolfes on her. I didnt expect that, well
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.04999993 = 0.75 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5285 @ 0.00091077 = 4.8134 BTC [-] {2}
jurov: all in all, what reward is there in trying to drag this nation into 21st century?
jurov: even fags abhor politicians on top of that
mircea_popescu: no, reward is there in you expressing yourself, and expressing this thing you believe in.
wao-ender: Well, maybe I have propositions to do this at all
jurov: oh, i'm pretty undecided
wao-ender: even in romanian wiki is there article about him
ozbot: Matia Corvin - Wikipedia
mircea_popescu: ya well, don't let too many opportunities pass you by while you're undecided, or else you'll end up old and bitter.
wao-ender: He even renamed Bratislava to Istropolis
wao-ender: Oh, nice. I like his way, how he made it. When he was at top of kingdom, he turn on economic and culture bloom
jurov: I like Tomas Bata. And he would not be able to do what he did from politics.
wao-ender: but he was kinda emperor that times
jurov: heh.. did you know he made an office in the elevator so that his employees would not waste time coimg nd going to him?
jurov: that building still stands in partizanske
mike_c: anybody know why some log lines show up blank?
wao-ender: yeah, and he had office at each floor, afaik
ozbot: #bitcoin-assets log
mircea_popescu: mike_c because assbot chokes on some special chars and kako does not want to fix it already!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 21282 @ 0.00090917 = 19.349 BTC [-] {3}
jurov: yes, kako fails unicode
wao-ender: but back to Corvin, he made something really revolutionary. He brings University into Bratislava
wao-ender: Istropolitana was one of first in Europe, right?
wao-ender: btw, our hackerspace is near of Istropolitana :P ( Universitas Istropolitana )
wao-ender: ahm just first in Slovakia, whatever, :sad:
ozbot: Universitas Istropolitana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
mircea_popescu: you know, the first european universities are in the 1200s
wao-ender: yeah, I reading now about that, fixint my memories
mike_c: ۞ so, like, this line should be off the record.
mircea_popescu: no but srsly, just filter unknown chars out rather than drop the line
mircea_popescu: mike_c in 99% cases it's bullshit curly quotes that do it.
kakobrekla: i dont give a fuck for your phuny chars
mircea_popescu: If the choice for regulators is to permit money laundering on the one hand, or to permit innovation on the other, we are always going to choose squelching the money laundering first, Lawsky said at the hearing.
mircea_popescu: “If the choice for regulators is to permit money laundering on the one hand, or to permit innovation on the other, we are always going to choose squelching the money laundering first,” Lawsky said at the hearing.
mircea_popescu: that statement is fundamentally "we're stupid, ignore us please".
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] [PAID] 13.00000000 BTC to 40`000 shares, 32500 satoshi per share
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6800 @ 0.00090386 = 6.1462 BTC [-]
mike_c: dang, i forgot to apply for my innovation permit.
mike_c: i think it depends on irc client. i don't think my client could even send anything that would break it.
mircea_popescu: it takes a retarded ny bureaucrat to generate the real good kludge
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 1480 @ 0.00009146 = 0.1354 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3000 @ 0.00009191 = 0.2757 BTC [+] {4}
mike_c: “ copy and paste ftw “
mike_c: damn, see, my client converts it
mircea_popescu: well yeah, cause you're running some noob sort of software that thinks it knows what you mean
kakobrekla: but here and now, we like total control so we can break srtuff.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 54 @ 0.0029212 = 0.1577 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.606 = 3.03 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.60002001 BTC [-]
jurov: likewise, i saw just boxes with STS and CCM in them
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.602 = 1.806 BTC [+] {2}
jurov: not in the dejavu font, i guess
pankkake: screen has a bug and can't handle utf-8 with too many bytes
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 7050 @ 0.00090386 = 6.3722 BTC [-]
pankkake: tmux doesn't have that issue, nor do latest screen git
deadweasel: nice, thx, i'm gonna try it for a bit.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 6 @ 0.04999994 = 0.3 BTC [+]
kakobrekla: nubbins is on my and i havent banned him.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 1100 @ 0.00596699 = 6.5637 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 6300 @ 0.0009019 = 5.682 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 813 @ 0.0009019 = 0.7332 BTC [-]
lippoper: (11:03:11 AM) mircea_popescu: mike_c how do you see ? or ? ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 5225 @ 0.00009199 = 0.4806 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: so on the good news front, eulora has all the skill / levelling / training stuff working and i'm quite happy with the system we use.
☟︎ assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3007 @ 0.000092 = 0.2766 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9000 @ 0.00089922 = 8.093 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 52 @ 0.00596699 = 0.3103 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 13500 @ 0.00009299 = 1.2554 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 40 @ 0.005 = 0.2 BTC
benkay: asciilifeform: i'd like to read your proof that the us hedge funds are all little madoffs
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 3761 @ 0.0000949 = 0.3569 BTC [+]
assbot: Last trade for S.MG on MPEX was at 0.000138 BTC [+]
assbot: Last trade for S.NSA on MPEX was at 0.00017 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 4700 @ 0.000095 = 0.4465 BTC [+]
mike_c: any plans on updating git?
mircea_popescu: someone else wanted to do a platform compile, or actually i think multiple people.
mike_c: yeah, cross-compiling early is usually a good idea. especially when you get other people to do it.
pankkake: so it's git? in my mind it was svn
mircea_popescu: im clueless so i just use these to mean the same thing.
mircea_popescu: in my mind he just asked me if compilable code is to be published
ozbot: Shared Coin - Free Trustless Bitcoin Mixing
mircea_popescu: course as described the model's got nothing on bitbet, but hey.
benkay: things are never apparent to me mp
benkay: words of one syllable etc
mircea_popescu: since you can by design make zero-delta bets, and since the fee is 1%... bitbet is partly the reason why mixer services sort-of died last year, i'd guess.
☟︎ assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 5000 @ 0.0000951 = 0.4755 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18650 @ 0.00089897 = 16.7658 BTC [-] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 40 @ 0.58347561 = 23.339 BTC [-] {8}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 1 @ 0.13149997 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 100 @ 0.24310363 = 24.3104 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 4 @ 0.61499997 = 2.46 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.61499999 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8205 @ 0.00090213 = 7.402 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 62 @ 0.04790151 = 2.9699 BTC [+] {8}
gribble: Time since last block: 5 minutes and 26 seconds
ozbot: 2193847870.17428 | Next Diff in 847 blocks | Estimated Change: 13.6058% in 5d 1h 51m 59s
mike_c: i'm excited. my robot is coming soon.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [COG] 5 @ 0.04999997 = 0.25 BTC [+]
mike_c: whatever i tell it to! raspberry pi driven. has camera, distance sensor.
mike_c: carrying stuff will not be its forte.
mike_c: hm. vimeo is choking. i think this the link:
ozbot: RAPIRO: The cool robot you always wanted as a kid on Vimeo
ozbot: RAPIRO: The cool robot you always wanted as a kid - YouTube
benkay: i just want a robot that follows me to the grocery store and back
☟︎ benkay: 4 wheels would be sufficient, but 1 would be more impressive
KRS1: how about a realdoll robot with nice legs
KRS1: who can run 60 mph and still romance you with a delicious dinner
KRS1: and at your command go fuck up a group of thugs who insulted yo mama
mircea_popescu: so some kid in sierra leone hacks into it and it dropkicks you to oblivion ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 16 @ 0.02751006 = 0.4402 BTC [-] {3}
wao-ender: but well, I think you have lot of interesting things there to know
wao-ender: I have on my plan that way to stop at Nikola Teslas museum as well
jurov: there's one in Romania?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 122 @ 0.02712507 = 3.3093 BTC [-] {10}
jurov: i was in the Belgrade one
mircea_popescu: wasn't really all that much... more the name than anything
jurov: yes, only a small house
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 500 @ 0.0027658 = 1.3829 BTC [-] {14}
jurov: they ran a film document, one tesla coil with live demonstration and few artifacts
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 3 @ 0.62499899 = 1.875 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 160 @ 0.00292525 = 0.468 BTC [+] {7}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.17 BTC
ThickAsThieves: idea: mobile ASIC mine that leeches on Tesla charging stations
jurov: lol we had similar idea to hook them to trolleybuses here
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15390 @ 0.00091192 = 14.0344 BTC [+] {2}
the20year: Im curious to see about this new car of theirs
jurov: tesla does log energy usage, they'd discover any major leeching
mircea_popescu: you could solve the retirement problem. just give everyone a tesla rv with hashing gear.
jurov: on the other hand, old trams.trolleybuses do not
jurov: yes, but's much less detailed
jurov: if tesla car consistently reports 20% shorter battery life, that's fishy
mircea_popescu: im curious who's the first person to have an exploded tesla battery/chemical fire
ThickAsThieves: coinbase has not sent out my bitcoins after 3 hours...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 34 @ 0.00438 = 0.1489 BTC [-] {2}
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: X.EUR Bids: ['1200 @ 0.00166251', '4200 @ 0.0016245', '100 @ 0.00153846', '1000 @ 0.001', '100000 @ 0.0009945']
mpexbot: mircea_popescu: Asks: ['1200 @ 0.00168772', '2200 @ 0.001773', '1350 @ 0.0019975']
jurov: no, getting sideways
ozbot: TSA Agent Confession - POLITICO Magazine
ThickAsThieves: And yes, we were laughing. Confessions of an ex-TSA agent."
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] [PAID] 0.24986506 BTC to 218 shares, 114617 satoshi per share
ThickAsThieves: "I was even required to confiscate nail clippers from airline pilots—the implied logic being that pilots could use the nail clippers to hijack the very planes they were flying."
ThickAsThieves: "In private, most TSA officers I talked to told me they felt the agency’s day-to-day operations represented an abuse of public trust and funds."
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 34050 @ 0.00091812 = 31.262 BTC [+] {3}
mircea_popescu: this is unlike any bureaucrat ever working for any bureaucy in any government in any country ever ?
mircea_popescu: ask anyone, from the post office to whatever you wish.
ThickAsThieves: "At the conclusion of our crash course, one of the officers in our class asked him to tell us, off the record, what he really thought about the machines. 'They’re shit,' he said"
mircea_popescu: "It was just a temporary thing, I told myself—side income for a year or two as I worked toward a degree in creative writing. It wasn’t like a recession would come along and lock me into the job or anything." i wonder how many losers currently are hiding this from themselves with the pretense to "creative writing" aspirations.
ThickAsThieves: "I.O. room duty quickly devolved into an unofficial break. It was the one place in the airport free of surveillance cameras"
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 15 @ 0.027 = 0.405 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.44 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 17271 @ 0.00091861 = 15.8653 BTC [+]
ThickAsThieves: "Officers who were dating often conspired to get assigned to the I.O. room at the same time, where they analyzed the nude images with one eye apiece, at best."
ThickAsThieves: "All the old, crass stereotypes about race and genitalia size thrived on our secure government radio channels."
ozbot: Twitter / Mircea_Popescu: @Jas0nHarringt0n You're not ...
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC
mircea_popescu: you know what ? it came out at nurnberg that most of the nazis working for the jew extermination agencies were trying to do a good job.
mircea_popescu: plenty of them were aspiring writers, too. just... you know, needed the dough.
Duffer1: TSA - come for the security theater, stay because we can't end the program during an employment crisis
mike_c: re: telsa fire. this video caused a stir stateside a few months ago:
ozbot: Tesla car on fire - YouTube
mike_c: apparently the batteries don't do well when pierced from the bottom by road debris
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.1 = 0.2 BTC
ozbot: [DOGE] xX_D0G3C0IN_Xx - YouTube
Dimsler_: you can all watch this and pace back and fourth in your basements
mircea_popescu: mike_c obviously. a ton and a half lithium battery is a fucking hazard of the 1st degree
mircea_popescu: not that they won't get good at it with practice, just... i dun wanna be the practice.
benkay: mircea_popescu's waiting for the power-seat in the back china tesla edition
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves yeah, and if satan gives him a scholarship next he's gonna spend a year or two warming tar.
mircea_popescu: and then try to leech some more money off of it by writing a book about what an asshole he was for THAT stretch of his life.
ozbot: Tesla Model S will have an “executive back seat” in China | CarNewsChina.com - China Auto News
ThickAsThieves: about a third of people I require to sign messages with their wallet for ID, don't send the message, only the sig
kakobrekla: at least they know what a bitcoin address is.
ThickAsThieves: what's worse is friedcat pretty much never requires signed transfers anymore
ThickAsThieves: i dont know whether open requests are scammers or people Friedcat just ignored
mircea_popescu: so basically the brilliance of asicminer has by now ensured the entire thing is an utter mess
mircea_popescu: ain't working with responsible, competent people a fucking blessing.
ThickAsThieves: surprisingly, there are no cases of "Friedcat stole my shares!" tho
ThickAsThieves: i take extra measures to make sure i cant be impersonated
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8873 @ 0.00091604 = 8.128 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: srsly ? ThickAssThieves, ThickAsThievs, everything all taken ?
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15814 @ 0.00091708 = 14.5027 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: think about it : to the average tard, whether you're one of the 500 scammers named after you or not makes no diff.
mircea_popescu: he still deals with you on the forum, whether you know of this or not.
mircea_popescu: one fine day they'll hold a vote about whether you should pay for it anyway
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 63 @ 0.0057001 = 0.3591 BTC [-] {5}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 18550 @ 0.00091334 = 16.9425 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 193 @ 0.00084999 = 0.164 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 6 @ 0.02650833 = 0.159 BTC [-] {2}
PsychoticBoy__: 2 years ago I had to work, now people are working hard very hard for me :)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 159 @ 0.00420804 = 0.6691 BTC [-] {4}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 70 @ 0.00390028 = 0.273 BTC [-] {2}
kakobrekla: wait werent you running something on glbse
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12250 @ 0.00091174 = 11.1688 BTC [-] {3}
kakobrekla: >I guess I will answer the best I can. It is really about being in the right place at the right time. I have done really well and also lost my ass in the past. I have pretty much been involved in just about anything BTC related that was not an obvious scam, and some that where.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.33 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: goat's been trying real hard to come out as if he's trustworthy, past all forgotten etc.
kakobrekla: >That Lambo is not really a significant part of my investment portfolio. I did it when I did cuz of Greenspan saying he could not see any "intrinsic value" in BTC. So I was like fuck it, people don't care about intrinsic value, they care about shit like Lambos. Did it for the PR.
Duffer1: he should hook me up with a couple btc
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.33 BTC [-]
kakobrekla: i think one of the reasons he change his forum name like 5 times is to help to cut the ties to scams
Duffer1: any plans for ciphertrade?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 29 @ 0.02603447 = 0.755 BTC [-] {5}
kakobrekla: well, if you picked your exchanges at random, theres a good chance one of them would still be online, makes you think if you went for the shittiest deliberately
mircea_popescu: <kakobrekla> i think one of the reasons he change his forum name like 5 times is to help to cut the ties to scams << you tihnk ?!
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8771 @ 0.00090864 = 7.9697 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 3 @ 0.24310363 = 0.7293 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 4 @ 0.25 = 1 BTC [-]
jurov: benkay: where did you get this from? Writing options and providing the required collateral puts those options into the pool from which a counterparty is randomly selected during an exercise event.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.24310363 = 0.9724 BTC
jurov: you really think mpex throws dice every time someone exercises an option?
jurov: would be fun, tho :D
mike_c: mpex + JD = more excitement
Dimsler_: yeah until you can't get your money out
mike_c: i don't get it. which of those do you have trouble getting money out of?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 20618 @ 0.000097 = 1.9999 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: this is a point, no large dice site crashed and burned so far.
ozbot: MPEx: The Missing Manual 6 - Options - serialized delusions
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 15633 @ 0.00091609 = 14.3212 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: jurov : "This process is not visible to the collateral holder in the course of the month."
jurov: heh.. so the collateral in stat output changes as exercises are done?
mike_c: thanks for link jurov. good post, i will be bookmarking for the six times a week i forget how to calculate the profit on those.
mircea_popescu: jurov it all started with mike_c being a little bitch.
mircea_popescu: but it really went downhill once he actually had a point
mike_c: it took mysterious other parties to convince him there was a point.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 10 @ 0.24310363 = 2.431 BTC
mike_c: four more months i think until my 1 year bitcoin-assets birthday.
jurov: i'd like to see the arguments :D
mike_c: kako won't come to the us
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 6 @ 0.02699999 = 0.162 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: jurov you know, about once a meeting the idea surfaces that "we shouild just film this. itcould be a movie"
kakobrekla: cause he still has a fart worth of sanity left.
mircea_popescu: The Sanitary Fartworth, an Illustrated Book of Sayings.
benkay: jurov: from mircea_popescu himself
kakobrekla: the, the customs will be like "dude, i won the bet but you paid less than i sent, come with me for a sec"
jurov: dunno how would one film this. people sitting in front of monitor, grinning?
jurov: with short cut from bildercoin meeting
mircea_popescu: gotta be able to brandish things at people or else what sort of an argument is it.
benkay: ah well there is a mistake in there isn't it - the way i understand the selection to work is that an exercise hits everyone who underwrote proportionately to the fraction of outstanding contracts that they wrote
jurov: oh yes then.i'd really like to see the cherry truck selection meeting
benkay: but jurov it is true that just writing an option puts it into the pool that can be exercised against
benkay: and also mike_c jurov commissioned the m3 from me
ozbot: [SOLB-SOL] Sollar Bond World's First Crypto-Bond [PRE-SALE THREAD]
mircea_popescu: cex.io peopl have been bitching about but i've not heard something subsytantive.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 1267 @ 0.000918 = 1.1631 BTC [+]
lippoper: they probably don't even have the mining gear yet
mircea_popescu: a review of the complete count of all bitcoin companies to date, and their spending patters may reveal that this is like ... the only 2 out of about 300 to do this.
mike_c: yes. the20year is going to be on the wrong side of that unfortunately.
mircea_popescu: actually, benkay, you still looking for fun shit to do ?
mircea_popescu: how about you make the complete list of all bitcoin companies ever.
kakobrekla: but ppl are like "DIVERSIFY YOU IDIOT"
mircea_popescu: benkay no, srlsly, it's a great thing to do, if it's complete.
benkay: mircea_popescu: will you commission that?
KRS1: wow. big bait. much ass.
ozbot: Mix your coins for 1% - Bitbet as Mixer
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 5 @ 0.6248 = 3.124 BTC [-] {2}
kakobrekla: i dont think its even possible to do complete list
mircea_popescu: benkay suppose i give you the half-bitcoin i have leftover from the painting thing ? but srsly, do it thoroughly, don't leave anything out.
benkay: mighty nebulous criteria sir
benkay: so basically trawl bitcointalk/investments back to 2010 or w/e
mircea_popescu: im sure people with history will volunteer names to fill gaps
benkay: what, is this a list or a review of each individual scam!?
mircea_popescu: and just, name, what it supposedly did, when it opened, who run it, when it closed, other notes etc.
mircea_popescu: well obviously a pankkake-style list isn't too helpful
kakobrekla: and everything that went aside exchanges
mircea_popescu: some twerps (goat, etc) deleted their posts, obviously.
pankkake: anyway, it seems like an ungodly amount of work
kakobrekla: ok i have this crazy and mostly useless thing one sec
mike_c: plus, doesn't have to be complete to publish. start with recent ones and work backwards.
benkay: i'd rather work forwards
mircea_popescu: with recent ones all the scum will have an incentive to argue about shit.
pankkake: perhaps do it somewhere others can contribute
mircea_popescu: history is written ad urbe condita not last superbowl backwardsia.
mike_c: this practically is a complete list of current:
ozbot: Bitcoin Scammers & (Other Cryptocurrency Scammers)
benkay: you can contribute by emailing me, pankkake ;)
pankkake: this adds a procrastination layer
benkay: mike_c: too bad it's not listified
KRS1: mircea_popescu: so the IPO/bitcoin investment model is similar to the trading style where you want to increase your bitcoin instead of fiat (in hopes to buy back lower)?
kakobrekla: the numbers is the last price at which the asset traded
KRS1: In other words, the companies seeking investment would have to purchase their goods/services in bitcoin in order to do this.
mike_c: benkay: its paginated. bitcoinscammers.com/page/3/ bitcoinscammers.com/page/4/, etc
mircea_popescu: yes dude, and if we don't recall a fucking name we just sit here hashing letters like idjits
pankkake: shouldn't be hard to brute force actually, not many chars
kakobrekla: you know i said it was crazy and useless
kakobrekla: should be fairly quick to bruteforce this
benkay: mircea_popescu: given the "ungodly" amount of work involved i think perhaps 2 btc
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 4 @ 0.24310363 = 0.9724 BTC
mircea_popescu: #bitcoin-assets : your daily source of insane ways to spend all your free time for great justice.
mircea_popescu: benkay im not rly hiring you to do it tho, think of it as mostly volunteer work.
kakobrekla: and dont forget to put it in niggers.txt on the end.
KRS1: In reference to "You Can Raise It But You Can't Spend It". Whats wrong with a company sticking to their business plan, soliciting for $X amount of funds, receiving it in bitcoin, converting it to fiat? Then the proper execution of the business plan can take place with the investment model of using bitcoins for funding. If the value of bitcoins goes up or down, it does not matter. The
KRS1: company seeking investment isn't buying their goods/services in bitcoin and they've properly funded their venture. If they cannot meet their goals using the solicited funds thats another problem entirely.
mircea_popescu: KRS1 the entire thing revolves around the empirical observation that companies which did not spend their ipo funds outperformed companies that did spend them, without exception.
mike_c: the problem is that the company is then competing with the BTC/fiat ROI
mircea_popescu: this is ultimately a problem of btc, of course, but still. financial analysis is what it is.
KRS1: And if the market price tanked without rebounding?
mike_c: if you want to short BTC there are better ways than investing in one of these companies.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 3 @ 0.1 = 0.3 BTC
pankkake: if you invest in a bitcoin company, somehow you're also thinking bitcoin will do well, right?
KRS1: good point pankkake
benkay: mircea_popescu: recommended donation for public service: 0.006 btc/security unearthed
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.1 = 0.2 BTC
benkay: also an interesting note: the oldest posts on the securities forum on bitcointalk are from like march. was there a db restore in which btctalk dropped all date information or something?
pankkake: maybe the section did not exist
ozbot: SkepsiDyne Integrated Node - The Bitcoin Mining Company
pankkake: and it was on a more generic one
mircea_popescu: there's also something run by uhhh... what was his name, the weirdo indian guy
mircea_popescu: and some shitty thing run by i forget who. those were the first three.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5033 @ 0.0009111 = 4.5856 BTC [-]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5417 @ 0.00091747 = 4.9699 BTC [+]
KRS1: If I'm an investor in a company using bitcoin and the day after my investment, bitcoin market price shoots upward and remains high, it kind of sucks I'm still investor X having invested only btc $Y.
kakobrekla: btw benkay re mixing, there is no g uarantee you will not get your own coins back
KRS1: However dividends paid out would make it equal i suppose.
KRS1: Unless dividends paid are always in fiat based on btc investd.
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla there is however a guarantee a third party can't establish they're your coins.
mircea_popescu: KRS1 you have 1 btc. you invest it. company trades it for 100 dollars, buys a hooker. the hooker makes 10 dollars a week.
mircea_popescu: your share yields .1 BTC a week, and thus is worth w/e .1 * riskfreerate comes to.
mircea_popescu: tomorrow btc goes to 10k. now your share yields .01 BTC a week, thus is worth 1/10 what it was.
kakobrekla: do we give out certificates or guarantees?
mircea_popescu: kakobrekla but suppose you go bet, and put in an address.
mircea_popescu: now, you know that that's your address, but someone looking in doesn't.
kakobrekla: it gives clues and if futher investigation happens you can be out of luck
mircea_popescu: in this sense, the clue given is no different from the clue of "we don't like your face very much"
pankkake: "Further more there is no company behind Sollar Bonds. As stated it is an Open-Sourced Dac with a Social Contract attached to each bond. Google social contract. Sollar Bonds is not a company it is a DAC-DAO."
pankkake: decentralized autonomous corporation and the other I don't know
mircea_popescu: pankkake "o i know, we'll rename mpex shit and pretend like we matter". gotta love the kids.
Duffer1: "Sollars is private, its distributed, and its privately distributed with no central points of failure BUT a central point of value and accountability (our company & community)"
jurov: just curious, do preorder schemes apply for that list?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.624999 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: ;;later tell RBRubicon dude seriously, fix that connection.
mircea_popescu: "This creation of a new city, piled on top of the massive tribute owed to the Persians, as well as the necessary donative to the army to secure its acceptance of his accession, meant Philip was desperately short of money. To pay for it, he ruthlessly increased levels of taxation, while at the same time he ceased paying subsidies to the tribes north of the Danube that were vital for keeping the peace on the frontiers."
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [HMF] 40 @ 0.027 = 1.08 BTC [+] {2}
mircea_popescu: you know... it occurs to me the us is so utterly out of moneyz, it's actually running short on stuff to pay its allies.
mike_c: luckily our tribes to the north are vital for only maple syrup
mircea_popescu: afghanistan gdp is nominally 18bn, of which ~3bn direct us deposits.
benkay: Nefario: "I'm in China, English teacher, slow/poorish Ruby webdev programmer."
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu re asset list, grep the old assets logs to compile one, you should be able to get full glbse there
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.125 BTC [+]
jurov: one'll have to check the benkay's list thoroughly, if he does it.
jurov: i just found he divided MPEx into 10 billion shares instead of 1b
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.13 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.125 BTC [+]
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 8550 @ 0.00090891 = 7.7712 BTC [-] {3}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
kakobrekla: (mind if he would be a month late, it would be the month that otc died)
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [NEOBEE] 48 @ 0.0029 = 0.1392 BTC [-]
KRS1: That sucks. I'd rather invest fiat in a company for non variable returns.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.13 = 0.26 BTC [-]
mike_c: you mean you want a bitcoin CD?
KRS1: I'd rather not receive dividends in btc I suppose..Value is subject to market price.
mike_c: well if you want a fiat CD i'm pretty sure those are available..
KRS1: Oh so the real sex here is that the btc can be worth many timees what it is..I suppose it can go the other way too.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.13 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 45 @ 0.00596698 = 0.2685 BTC [+] {2}
mike_c: [SATOSHISDAEMON.HORSE] must have been a winner
kakobrekla: the stakes were high, err, i mean tasty.
kakobrekla: i wonder if that horse ever saw a stable
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 26 @ 0.00446998 = 0.1162 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [PETA] 15 @ 0.04999994 = 0.75 BTC [+]
mike_c: hehe, first race it placed last
dub: two lasts iirc so it went off to be a trail^Wglue horse
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [DEALCO] 74 @ 0.00446998 = 0.3308 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 2 @ 0.624999 = 1.25 BTC [+]
dub: I had a peice of that
dub: actually not a bad model
mike_c: selling crappy racehorses?
dub: I've got a buddy who owns racehorses actually.. hmm
kakobrekla: you know, bitcoin means "to be a horse" in slovene
benkay: are the glbse assets on that list?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.14 BTC [+]
mike_c: it's funny cuz it's true :) "biti konj" ?
benkay: that's not a canonical list though, right? there are other 'security' trading operations not reporting trades in -assets-trades, correct?
mircea_popescu: benkay everything that ever actually traded since april 2012 till today is in that list, except bitfunder stuff cause Ukyo never got with the program.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 25 @ 0.00596696 = 0.1492 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: so you'd need to add bitfunder, pre-2012 crap (since may 2011, on the forum) and that'd be about it
ozbot: Looking for co-investor(s) for credit rating and bail bond system
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 350 @ 0.000848 = 0.2968 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: anyway, the true value one receives from completing this monstrous task is attaining a knowledge equal only to the gods themselves.
mircea_popescu: tbh making this list, by hand, would be the qualification for being a bitcoin financial analyst. this is the certificate, like in the old days of the guilds,
mircea_popescu: let us rejoice we still live in a time when it's humanly possible, and it doesn't even take a full year
mircea_popescu: as opposed to the burdened world of fiat, where useless substitutes take four years+ and deliver no actual value.
ozbot: Mix your coins for 1% - Bitbet as Mixer
kakobrekla: or make a rejected proposition and fund that
mike_c: that's basically what he proposed since pi=4 would be rejected
KRS1: "You Can Raise It But You Can't Spend It" is goddamn perplexing.
KRS1: Because like the article states, "At what point over the last two years would [actually using the money] have been a good idea?"
mike_c: oh yeah, 0% mixer. nice.
mircea_popescu: yeah, until people start doing this, after which there will be a 5% fucking fee.
mike_c: KRS1: yeah, that's the point. don't invest in a company that is going to use the funds for R&D or have fiat-based returns.
kakobrekla: dont give me that look, i just dont like misinformation
benkay: hang on, why would π=4 get rejected?
benkay: how is that a bad bet?
mike_c: um, because nobody would bet on yes?
kakobrekla: if its not accepted you cant put it on both sides also
benkay: well, "bad bet" per bitbet faq at least.
benkay: my everything is awful
mike_c: said the pot to the kettle
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 57 @ 0.00596696 = 0.3401 BTC [-]
benkay: yeah your footnotes suck too
mircea_popescu: "Also, bets which are not really bets but moreover advertising, advocacy, rambling nonsense and such are unacceptable on BitBet."
KRS1: Thats a great article and really "hit home" with me.
benkay: mouseover text is always broken
benkay: has always been broken
mike_c: 1) not html-encoded properly
mike_c: 2) you can't fking read them because they are long and they disappear before you can read the whole thing
mike_c: clicking on them disrupts the reading flow too much
benkay: also iirc your footnotes fuck up your linespacing
mircea_popescu: but i cant contropl how long your browser keeps tooltips up
mike_c: well you could. moar JS.
mircea_popescu: anyway, YOURS suck more because of the pagination you use which is ugly!
benkay: well someday when i'm endowed with a reasonable amount of capital i'll pay someone to fix it
benkay: there are words, aren't there?
ozbot: MPEx: The Missing Manual 7 - Bonds and S.MPOE stock - serialized delusions
jurov: only futures and i'm done
jurov: lol at least for today
jurov: er..in fact i'm not. today is opex
mike_c: the20year: you are turning bitcoin into $, which i think is a bad idea.
jurov: he is turning them into brick and mortar
jurov: or at least plywood
the20year: That's the unfortunate thing with any bitcoin investments, if bitcoin continues to rapidly appreciate
the20year: But that goes with every single investment in the world that isn't specifically buying bitcoins and holding them
mike_c: bitbet, for example, will not crash if BTC appreciates
benkay: good luck getting btc-denominated rent, the20year
mike_c: or it would not decline :)
ThickAsThieves: there are plenty short term investments that could outpace bitcoin
the20year: no one would agree to it, additionally no companies would be willing to pay their employees entirely denominated in bitcoin without caveats that would essentially link it to fiat
mike_c: bitbet fee revenue was higher in Q4 2013 than Q3 2013 despite massive BTC appreciation
ThickAsThieves: anything that appreciates in value 10% while bitcoin only moves 2%
mircea_popescu: i guess we managed to conserve purchasing power parity or what was the line ?
the20year: And that would be one of very few examples where it would work ,as long as they can keep their coding fees low
mike_c: kako works for peanuts
ThickAsThieves: <mike_c> bitbet fee revenue was higher in Q4 2013 than Q3 2013 despite massive BTC appreciation <<< it's not that simple
the20year: The only hope that I have looking forward, the reason investors back us is because our company can arbitage low interest rates in fiat to then repay them in a manner that *hopefully* will outpace bitcoin
mike_c: like the february difficulty bet?
mircea_popescu: you can't run corps on a two week horizon. just getting a sale throguh is longer than that.
mircea_popescu: think about it. you wanna buy a house. you do dd. that's a week if you're mercury himself.
mircea_popescu: yeah but see, the convenience of financial speculation is built on some people actually doing operations at some point.
ThickAsThieves: indeed, TSLA did not actually become $20 more valuable in a few days
mircea_popescu: moreover, you can arguably have ops w/o speculation, dubious and sickly as that may be
mircea_popescu: "Vitalik understands growth hacking, and got himself a landing page. It's got that modern, professional, single-pagey look the kids all love, and takes in emails. There's even a countdown to the Revolution beginning, although it's entirely opaque as to what precisely is Revolving other than Satoshi in his grave."
mircea_popescu: "Humans inevitably want to be a part of a thing. Mostly they want to be led into glorious battle by strong men, but since men no longer lead and battle is not a thing, humans now coalesce into writhing, headless balls of worms in the traditional socialist style of leaderless leadership."
jurov: if/when you fid the unicode problem, ask wao-ender for the text
benkay: what about it, mircea_popescu?
benkay: 's not like i came up with it myself
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 2 @ 0.126 = 0.252 BTC [+]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
ozbot: All 15 candidates now officially in presidential race - The Slovak Spectator
benkay: mircea_popescu many many -assets conversations
ThickAsThieves: "NXT – Proof of Stake and the New Alternative Altcoin"
mircea_popescu: proof of stake is kind-of the retarded concept of that original scamcoin, what was it
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 5 @ 0.24310363 = 1.2155 BTC
ThickAsThieves: then newbs will be like what are these altcoins i keep hearing about!?
mircea_popescu: "The Ethereum wiki runs Mediawiki, a tool that seemingly lacks any sort of page indexing, leaving me no choice but to look at all recent changes to all pages for the past thirty days to even get an idea of the scope of writing that's been put into the project." << benkay does this, then complains about forum.
ThickAsThieves: incidentally that is one of my ideas for a blog title "So Meta"
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9622 @ 0.00091718 = 8.8251 BTC [+] {2}
benkay: whaddaya mean complain about forum?
ThickAsThieves: i dont write nearly enough to hope I'd be good at it, but maybe I read so much it's possible
benkay: i just complain about everything
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 9428 @ 0.0009176 = 8.6511 BTC [+] {2}
truffles: TAT id like to see your writing style, ure prob funny
ozbot: CRS on BTC: Notes and Jokes
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 83 @ 0.00570353 = 0.4734 BTC [-] {6}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5450 @ 0.00091837 = 5.0051 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: i like how the research office simply restates the MP stand on the matter back in 2012,
benkay: ya well what is research after all
mircea_popescu: yet the "community" and it's "press" fails to print in two inch letters "Hey! We have a guy here that's two years smarter than the best of the USG. That's why you're fucked."
mircea_popescu: lettuce instead focus on what pothead got busted last.
pankkake: maybe the torture is confusing music genres
mircea_popescu: you they probably torture with arab koran chanting, or with nun music
mircea_popescu: kinda funny, if you think about it, how "torture" = enforced enlarging, in this case. god forbid you listen to some music you don't normally.
pankkake: I would probably like it… I dislike happy music though
mircea_popescu: what else, they make some modest woman go about naked. torture of all hells. yet other women love being nude.
mircea_popescu: basically the one thing people most hate is being exposed to other things.
pankkake: truffles: happy music makes me sad, while sad/dark music calms me
truffles: sad music makes me even sadder
ozbot: KYLIE MINOISE - AVANT-GORE NUDIST ASYLUM - YouTube
truffles: gotta turn on the sad music to go with sad mood amirite
truffles: omg pankkake no seizure warning
kakobrekla: btw if someone wants to do it, primecoin fork with a finite coinbase should do better than most of alts outthere imho
pankkake: maybe so, but it will happen eventually
pankkake: certainly slower without asics
pankkake: (block reward decreases with difficulty increasing)
ThickAsThieves: no, Altcoin will be the clear winner because it actually serves a purpose: to clean up the ridiculous altcoin market so everyone can relax, focus on one, and become rich just like early bitcoin adopters!
pankkake: oh it's an altcoin named altcoin
pankkake: I'll mine it unless it's scrypt
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 300 @ 0.00084999 = 0.255 BTC [+] {2}
pankkake: maybe that block erupter will make me rich after all
mircea_popescu: Much of the noise in the liberal American internet revolves around making people feel good by talking about things they think are bad and raising the consciousness in a futile quest to change the world by talking. There are hugely diminishing returns to raising consciousness (even assuming the ideas you're promulgating aren't of the rankest communist origin). << this.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 180 @ 0.00084999 = 0.153 BTC [+]
benkay: you gotta stop this mp
benkay: gonna make me think my opinions aren't useless blather
pankkake: writing your opinions make you stronger
benkay: writing makes your thinking stronger.
mircea_popescu: no actually it's been quite a pleasant read, and you have good points well stated.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 100 @ 0.005 = 0.5 BTC
benkay: problem rather that constructive criticism is so damn hard to come by
ozbot: i wiil give cryptsy a sugestion since withdrawal delay so much
benkay: praise is cheap, i'm an american child
mike_c: that guy could probably help mtgox too
mike_c: satoshidaemon to the rescue :)
ozbot: Ripped OFF by bitbet.us
benkay: i expect what i do to be pretty good, and for people to say 'wow that's awesome' if they're easily impressed (or paste into -assets or w/e). what i vastly prefer is "listen kid, stop blathering here here and there"
mircea_popescu: ALL OF YOU HATERS can go back and get your commissions from "TIC" now and STFU and stay off my honest and legit. post.
kakobrekla: mircea_popescu thats the dude from the customs btw.
pankkake: the guy is a law student according to his other posts
ozbot: COINBASE - Serious Issue - Reversing Bank Deposits, erroneous withdrawals, etc..
KRS1: I hate to bring this up again.. that article "You Can Raise It But You Can't Spend It" still doesn't make sense to me.
mircea_popescu: KRS1 but you gotta form a question/challenge of som sort
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 5200 @ 0.00091709 = 4.7689 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: "Yahoo Voices is where your expertise and perspectives take center stage! Here you will find millions of articles, videos, and slideshows on every topic – published by Yahoo users, just like you."
mike_c: i would like it make sense. what is unclear?
mircea_popescu: god help me. you mean yahoo is seriously going to do the whole bs usg thing in 2014 ?! after it died ?
KRS1: Companies typically launch an IPO to raise funds, along with a business plan, to bring a particular product or service to market with the intent on making a profit. Why shouldn't a company raise funds for X amount of BTC, cash it in for fiat? According to the business plan, the investment should request $X dollars for Y project. As long as the funds are matched, and everything falls
KRS1: into place, the rest is trivial. IPO's are not meant to capitalize and profit directly from investment money.
mircea_popescu: IPO's are not meant to capitalize and profit directly from investment money. << ?! what ?!
mike_c: in bitcoinlandia, there are 2 types of ipos
KRS1: That money is to be used for the particular product or service mentioned in the business plan, right? Or do companies reinvest the money raised from the IPO and make that grow?
mircea_popescu: in general a share placement capitalises the corp. that capital is then deployed.
mircea_popescu: this system whereby corps announce what they intend to use the money for is rare irl.
KRS1: The capital is deployed is key here.
mike_c: well, so is most fiat crowdfunding too
KRS1: The IPO funds should not be reinvested and grown further, they should be used to fund the project mentioned in the business plan right?
mircea_popescu: KRS1 yes. the company, once capitalised, has a fiduciary duty to deploy capital efficiently.
KRS1: So a bitcoin IPO is very different than fiat IPO?
mircea_popescu: efficiently means it will see positive returns above the risk free rate
KRS1: Right, and thats what I'm having a problem with.
KRS1: Why can't the company cash in the BTC to fund the project?
kakobrekla: www.coindesk.com/new-hong-kong-bitcoin-exchange-welcomes-mainland-customers/
mircea_popescu: because it's likely that this will result in negative returns
mircea_popescu: which is contrary to wat the company is supposed to be doing
ThickAsThieves: when you invets your bitcoins, you are selling them and buying that thing
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves this isn't really the thing discussed tho
mike_c: i didn't see that statement on the neobee prospectus :)
kakobrekla: <ThickAsThieves> so dont expect to get more bitcoins than you put it < wait what??
pankkake: "HKCex will also allow customers to use deposit and withdraw funds to credit cards using a PayPal gateway" interesting. no dogecoins though
kakobrekla: why would ANYONE invest in ANYTHING then
KRS1: Once you reach yor capitalisation goal, why can't yo ujust move on and mature the IPO as discussed in the business plan? The idea is not to make money off the initial investment, its to make money according to the business plan.
ThickAsThieves: but that company cant outpace bitcoin appreciation in whatever currency it plays in
mircea_popescu: KRS1 ok, forget bitcoin for a moment, cause this is perhaps throwing you.
KRS1: Who cares how much you could have made off of the initial BTC investment. As long as you've reached your investment goals, deploy the capital and fund the project.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12400 @ 0.00091709 = 11.3719 BTC [-]
ThickAsThieves: you might even say that investing in a specifically bitcoin-industry business exacerbates this problem
mircea_popescu: they just open a new coal mine. this coal mine is larger than any one on earth, and close to your plant.
mircea_popescu: you figure at this juncture coal prices will likely go down, if nothing because of transport, and so forego buying coal yet.
mircea_popescu: you figure, this will take coal even lower. and forego again.
mircea_popescu: next week, they bring in mega tip top drilling tools. you again....
mircea_popescu: now. you nominally are in the business of buying coal,
mircea_popescu: nevertheless your correct decision has so far been to not buy any coal.
KRS1: Go back to your directors and tell them to rewrite the business plan
mircea_popescu: you're in the wrong business because your business just got better ?
KRS1: You are god damned right it doesnt =/
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CFIG] 1 @ 0.12 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 5 @ 0.126 = 0.63 BTC [+]
KRS1: And investors keep wondering why they invested so much.
mike_c: as opposed to the investors in the company that DID keep buying coal and lost a shitload of money
KRS1: At the club house they are getting laughed at by their colleagues.
ThickAsThieves: why arent more startups proclaiming to be 100% bitcoin?
KRS1: Their wives are ready to leave them and even the security guard at their estate is giving them better investment tips.
mircea_popescu: ThickAsThieves because the club house is mostly populated by retards.
mike_c: krs1, wait a year. the clubhouse will have an enitrely different population.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC
mircea_popescu: if people were actually willing to pay for music this may be a brilliant idea.
KRS1: So if we all invest in a company that needs $100 dollars, using bitcoin, as long as the $100 dollar investment goal has been reached, what is wrong with executing the rest of the business operations?
ThickAsThieves: before i found bitcoin that was the plan a label called Thick As Thieves
KRS1: Its perfectly fine to cash in btc for fiat at the time because $X dollar investment has been reached to launch business operations.
mircea_popescu: KRS1 that you don't want to buy a house on fire at the list price.
mircea_popescu: let them either put the fire out or else let the fire run out and see what it's worth
KRS1: You have to purchase at some point though..time is money.
mike_c: around we go. what is wrong with it is that in a year that company will be worth $200 and the bitcoins it raised will be worth $2,000
KRS1: mice_c: Investment funds are requested using an IPO based on a business plan. If you never execute it and expecting your capital to fund the business, thats a big problem.
benkay: that'd be because i wrote it, mircea_popescu
ThickAsThieves: maybe this could be the first charge of the Bitcoin Republik, we make a 100% Pure Bitcoin badge
jurov: benkay, maybe you wrote it and you will get paid
jurov: but it was wildly inaccurate at places
mike_c: yes, it's not that companies using their bitcoins are doing something "wrong", just stupid.
truffles: lotta bitcoiners straddling the fence, makes me doubt their faith
jurov: btw, part 8 futures is there too
benkay: there were mistakes in the pricing examples.
benkay: scuse me - i made mistakes in the pricing examples.
KRS1: If the market crumbles on bitcoin and you never executed your business plan and angry investors everywhere want your head then what?
KRS1: This is why I think that article is bunk.
KRS1: Well written, but has no logical basis.
mircea_popescu: some of them make good calls, some of them make bad calls.
mircea_popescu: that's how board meetings work, where the board selects ceos
KRS1: Its an intriguing problem, but if the IPO is never launched and the business keeps investing the initial investment funds, which is risky, then this is idiotic imo.
mircea_popescu: i guess in retrospect this is yet another one of those places where naive "financiers" of the glbse troop confused discting things cause well, what did they know
kakobrekla: KRS1 if you dont want bitcoin exposure, GET THE FUCK OUT OF BITCOIN
mircea_popescu: KRS1 well sure. but in principle, yeah, if you don't trust a unit of account it's saner for you not to hold it at all
KRS1: kakobrekla I think you are missing what I'm saying..sorry if I wasn't clear..
mircea_popescu: than to invest in corps that use it but have foreign assets.
ThickAsThieves: what specifically IS your recommendation on how a bitcoin-funded op spends
mircea_popescu: for instance : if you think the dollar is going to shit, you're better off buying euro, than buying Ford shares on the thinking that ford does business in yurp
KRS1: ThickAsThieves: My recommendation is simple...if the IPO requests $X amount of dollars to fund project Y, convert BTC to fiat and execute the business plan accordingly to yeield project Y. Simple. Don't reinvest investment dollars. Thats stupid.
mike_c: ThickAsThieves: a btc-funded op should spend its money to make more bitcoin. like to bankroll just-dice.
ThickAsThieves: like if S.MG has a fiat expense, what, youre gonna rob shareholders?
mircea_popescu: KRS1 "if the IPO requests $X amount of dollars to fund project Y" contradicts " convert BTC to fiat"
ThickAsThieves: we're kinda saying all spending of bitcoin is bad business, right?
mircea_popescu: we're saying that the quick increase in the btc rate puts responsible, competent ceos in the position where they forego fiat deployments
KRS1: But you have to spend it to make anything happen.
mike_c: seems like s.nsa built cardano with 2% of their ipo funds
mircea_popescu: mike_c well, there's only prototyping for one board reported yet, and moreover most of the cost is engineering time, which obviously doesn't show
KRS1: You aren't launching an IPO in hopes to do business to reinvest investment funds. You are launching an IPO to do business according to the business plan of whatever business you are going into. BTC is irrelevant.
mike_c: yes, it doesn't show. but that's the point. you don't necessarily have to spend a lot to make progress.
pankkake: I don't know many businesses that end up doing what was planned at first
kakobrekla: KRS1 a bunch of companies have a bunch of people dealing nothing but with FX risks
kakobrekla: which are way smaller there than here.
KRS1: I must be out of my mind for thinking logically here and believing an IPO and a business plan should work together to do exactly what they fucking say they are going to do.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM1] 1 @ 0.60000001 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: you're basically proceeding into some sort of glbse/kickfunder extrapolation as if it were a thing
mike_c: krs1, that is simply incorrect.
mircea_popescu: da fuck was tha tthing called anyway, fundkicker, gofuckme, what.
mike_c: no investor in an early-stage company expects them to "follow the business plan"
mike_c: kickstarter is a lot like btc bizness. 99:1 bullshit but there are some gems.
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 3 @ 0.2 = 0.6 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: right, but that's more like a "daddy, gimme some dough to buy beer" sort of venue
mircea_popescu: in which case i suppose if you take the beermoney and buy pot daddy has the recourse of wtf, i gave you that twenny for beer not for pot.
mircea_popescu: an ipo is more like, i am a carpenter, give me money to carpent. the investor has no recourse as to whether the carpenter buys a hammer or a saw,
mircea_popescu: in short, being an actual ceo of an actual corp which does an actual ipo, you are a professional.
mircea_popescu: being a pseudo-ceo of a pseudo-corp which does a kickstarter thing, you are a whatever, etsy service representative.
ozbot: luke-jr is a scammer - he renegged on a bitcoin futures contract
mircea_popescu: in a more wtf line of inquiry, check out this bet that just closed :
ozbot: BitBet - China's GDP growth to exceed 8% any quarter in 2013
mircea_popescu: the datasource (china's stat bureau) has pretty much given up on publishing data
mircea_popescu: generally your pocket starts enriching once impotence starts showing up
benkay: HURRY UP AND WILT, BONER
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 77 @ 0.00570329 = 0.4392 BTC [-] {3}
mircea_popescu: "Anyone who likes Bitcoin really shouldn’t want any new currencies to be created."
benkay: need moar coins. anyone have any bonerbgone?
mircea_popescu: derp. anyone knows this daniel fellow from the mises circle website ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.2 BTC [+]
benkay: i kinda take the opposite line on that one - anyone who likes bitcoin should be pleased at the cambrian derpsplosion of altchains
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [CBTC] 4845 @ 0.00009649 = 0.4675 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [MS] 20000 @ 0.005 = 100 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 2 @ 0.24310363 = 0.4862 BTC
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [SFI] 150 @ 0.00084999 = 0.1275 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: i don't think you realise how rare deidcated servers were in 2011.
KRS1: that shit started to really change in 2009
benkay: i'm just a little astonished that one booted a vm to trade these securities
KRS1: bah nothin wrong with that imo
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 1 @ 0.13499919 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.126 BTC [+]
KRS1: mircea_popescu: back to that- good analogy btw heh
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.EXCH] 1 @ 0.24310363 BTC
mircea_popescu: worthless businesses built on worthless models with no defensibility whatsoever by worthless ycombinated minds.
mike_c: coinbase been pushing that hard. offering $1m in free transactions to business that sign up with them.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 11510 @ 0.0009157 = 10.5397 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: 287.84 of which out of businesses that did less than $1m historically.
mircea_popescu: KRS1 there's a more subtle problem than the spending bitcoin thing.
mircea_popescu: all i have to do all day is sit here and admire how people fail. i don't even have to do anything at all. just sit pat.
mike_c: i don't think that will last. surely competant competition will emerge at some point.
mircea_popescu: that bitcoin not spent is better than bitcoin spent we could perhaps live with.
mike_c: yeah, you've got time :)
mircea_popescu: pankkake even if it is, for what good reason would it stay that way ?
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [AM100] 38 @ 0.00570214 = 0.2167 BTC [-]
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.MINE] 2 @ 0.19995 = 0.3999 BTC [+] {2}
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 10400 @ 0.00091334 = 9.4987 BTC [-] {2}
mircea_popescu: can't hold the btc hostage till china. that may be 55 years.
benkay: i imagine she had a business to run!
benkay: i see she's doing the nikki minaj routine
assbot: [HAVELOCK] [B.SELL] 1 @ 0.126 BTC [+]
mircea_popescu: the problem with vaudeville is that you're stuck mimicking mainstream
pankkake: oh they had kiko wu! *pornstalgia*
KRS1: mircea_popescu: goes back to something I've noticed as I get older, most fuckwits in business or whatever it is they do, barely do it right. They're usually off putting their efforts in farting or dancing or whatever it is they do other than their jobs.
assbot: [MPEX] [S.MPOE] 12150 @ 0.00090902 = 11.0446 BTC [-]
mircea_popescu: i can't believe todd actually went to work for mastercoin.
pankkake: with bounties like "10 btc for css"
benkay: i can get some css done for 10 btc
pankkake: they're not litteraly offering that, don't get your hopes up :)
benkay: jurov my irc is apparently broken
jurov: i just need your btc addy
benkay: do you mind holding payment for a day?
jurov: and reminding me if i didn't pay you the first installment
gribble: Error: "raed" is not a valid command.
gribble: You have not yet rated user benkay
benkay: i'm balls deep in btctalk shit atm
kakobrekla: i want half, cause of the grep logs idea
benkay: this is not for 'securities' review, boys
mircea_popescu: jurov how much do you owe ? we'll take .75 btc for all teh great ideaz
benkay: payment for mpex missing manual
ozbot: dpaste: #1579602: The Real Altcoin, by tat.investments@gmail.com
jurov: you are buying my debt from benaky or what?
jurov: oh, bailout? no problem
benkay: just out of curiosity why?